Ep.19 - Biblical Dating and Marriage
Chapters
0:00:39 Intro
2:39 How they first met
15:44 How they address the dating topic in ministry
21:26 Thoughts about how dating changes the culture of the ministry
26:9 Tips for undergrads who want to date
28:46 Additional advice for undergrads who are dating
31:35 Pushback they’ve received
34:7 World’s vision of marriage
00:00:00.000 | Dating is inherently deceptive.
00:00:01.320 | You know what?
00:00:02.300 | If you were a total loser, and you would amount to nothing,
00:00:05.980 | and you would add value to no one,
00:00:07.600 | and no one would respect you,
00:00:09.560 | but I would still marry you, how would you feel?
00:00:11.280 | - Ooh! - Why am I the bad guy?
00:00:12.760 | The world is the bad guy!
00:00:15.760 | Isn't this good?
00:00:18.400 | Isn't it good that you have a husband who wants this?
00:00:27.020 | Alright, welcome to the Official/Unofficial Axe2 Network podcast.
00:00:30.980 | We are launching lifelong Kingdom workers from every college town.
00:00:33.960 | My name is Steven.
00:00:34.820 | - I'm Isaiah. - And today we are with Joe and Irene.
00:00:37.420 | - Thanks, guys. - Hello.
00:00:38.260 | - Thanks for coming on. - Good to see you guys.
00:00:39.500 | Yeah.
00:00:40.340 | We want to talk about probably the most interesting topic to college students today,
00:00:44.500 | which is AI.
00:00:45.380 | No, I'm just kidding.
00:00:46.220 | We want to talk about dating and marriage.
00:00:50.500 | But before we get into it, why don't you guys introduce yourselves real quick.
00:00:53.180 | Just what year did you graduate?
00:00:55.600 | Tour some of your peers around our network and just where you're serving.
00:00:59.940 | Yeah.
00:01:00.520 | Cool.
00:01:01.020 | So, I'm Joe, graduated 2006 from UC Berkeley.
00:01:04.740 | Peers around our network, so Josh Wang in Riverside,
00:01:07.880 | Chris Park up in Berkeley, Matt Lee, San Diego,
00:01:11.860 | a couple guys in Merced, Erickson, those guys,
00:01:14.140 | and then Jesse Chen in DMV among some others.
00:01:17.060 | Nice.
00:01:17.980 | Irene, and I graduated 2007, so a year younger than him.
00:01:22.360 | and my peers, Ariana, she's in San Diego, Sherry, Park.
00:01:31.500 | Oh no, she's not Park.
00:01:33.200 | Chung, Chung.
00:01:33.700 | Chung, sorry.
00:01:34.700 | Dora, who's now in Minnesota, Amy Leung, Sue, I forget all their last names.
00:01:40.700 | Katie in the East Coast.
00:01:41.700 | Katie in the East Coast.
00:01:44.040 | Katie in the East Coast.
00:01:45.040 | Um, Cece, Linda.
00:01:46.040 | Yeah.
00:01:47.040 | That's good.
00:01:47.040 | You don't have to name all of them.
00:01:48.040 | Oh, sorry.
00:01:49.040 | It's important because they feel like we're there.
00:01:50.040 | Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:01:51.040 | So I'll stop you so they know it's my fault that you're not naming us.
00:01:53.040 | Blame Isaiah.
00:01:54.040 | Thanks.
00:01:55.040 | Yeah.
00:01:56.040 | So, and then you guys are serving at our Irvine church.
00:01:57.040 | Irvine church.
00:01:58.040 | Yes, that's right.
00:01:59.040 | Cool.
00:02:00.040 | Cool.
00:02:01.040 | So we're going to talk about dating and marriage.
00:02:02.040 | Just, just for fun.
00:02:03.040 | Let's, let's talk about.
00:02:04.040 | Your guys isn't married.
00:02:05.040 | Your guys dating.
00:02:06.040 | How long have you been married now?
00:02:07.040 | Oh.
00:02:08.040 | Oh.
00:02:09.040 | I'm sorry.
00:02:10.040 | You put him on the spot.
00:02:11.040 | I'm sorry.
00:02:12.040 | I'm sorry.
00:02:13.040 | Oh no.
00:02:14.040 | Irvine doesn't know either.
00:02:15.040 | So it's fine.
00:02:16.040 | I'm going to say both daughters.
00:02:17.040 | It's like 12 years.
00:02:18.040 | 12 years.
00:02:19.040 | And you have three kids.
00:02:20.040 | Three kids.
00:02:21.040 | Three daughters.
00:02:22.040 | Beautiful daughters.
00:02:23.040 | He really wanted a son.
00:02:25.040 | I really wanted a son.
00:02:27.040 | I'm very happy with my daughters.
00:02:29.040 | Especially twins.
00:02:30.040 | Yes.
00:02:31.040 | Jamie's nine.
00:02:32.040 | Super cute.
00:02:33.040 | And our twins are seven.
00:02:34.040 | They just turned seven.
00:02:35.040 | Wow.
00:02:36.040 | She's already nine.
00:02:37.040 | 27.
00:02:38.040 | Okay.
00:02:39.040 | Okay.
00:02:40.040 | So how about just tell us like.
00:02:41.040 | Who asked who.
00:02:42.040 | Yeah.
00:02:43.040 | How you guys first met.
00:02:44.040 | Who asked who.
00:02:45.040 | How that all went down.
00:02:47.040 | So she's okay.
00:02:48.040 | So Irene's actually cousins with one of my peers.
00:02:51.040 | So Matt.
00:02:52.040 | That's right.
00:02:53.040 | Yeah.
00:02:54.040 | So I met her when she was a freshman.
00:02:55.040 | I was a sophomore at the time.
00:02:57.040 | And then we were not always in the same kind of.
00:03:00.040 | grouping.
00:03:01.040 | As undergrads.
00:03:02.040 | But.
00:03:03.040 | Like.
00:03:04.040 | Either in the next.
00:03:05.040 | Home group.
00:03:06.040 | Or something like that.
00:03:07.040 | So.
00:03:08.040 | We kind of knew each other throughout undergrad.
00:03:10.040 | Served together.
00:03:11.040 | After.
00:03:12.040 | In coin.
00:03:13.040 | In coin.
00:03:14.040 | Um.
00:03:15.040 | We started dating maybe.
00:03:16.040 | Like.
00:03:17.040 | Two.
00:03:18.040 | Three years after graduating.
00:03:19.040 | Mm-hmm.
00:03:20.040 | Yeah.
00:03:21.040 | I was a little shocked when he called me actually.
00:03:23.040 | Oh.
00:03:24.040 | He didn't see it coming at all.
00:03:25.040 | Yeah.
00:03:26.040 | Joe called me.
00:03:27.040 | And then I was like.
00:03:28.040 | Uh.
00:03:29.040 | Do you have the right person on the other.
00:03:30.040 | Yeah.
00:03:31.040 | Um.
00:03:32.040 | Yeah.
00:03:32.040 | Cause I had never even thought about him.
00:03:33.040 | So then.
00:03:34.040 | When he called me.
00:03:35.040 | It was a little shocking.
00:03:36.040 | No, no.
00:03:37.040 | Because I felt like.
00:03:38.040 | Oh.
00:03:39.040 | He's like.
00:03:40.040 | Too above my range.
00:03:41.040 | Wow.
00:03:42.040 | What a compliment.
00:03:43.040 | Oh my god.
00:03:44.040 | I mean.
00:03:45.040 | That's not how I thought at all.
00:03:46.040 | For me.
00:03:47.040 | I was.
00:03:48.040 | Okay.
00:03:49.040 | Maybe this is too.
00:03:50.040 | Too serious.
00:03:51.040 | But like.
00:03:52.040 | Uh.
00:03:53.040 | I was really looking for.
00:03:54.040 | A wife.
00:03:55.040 | That I could do ministry with.
00:03:56.040 | Mm-hmm.
00:03:57.040 | That was really what I was looking for.
00:03:58.040 | My.
00:03:59.040 | Home church pastor.
00:04:00.040 | Loved the.
00:04:01.040 | He was the first man of God.
00:04:02.040 | Who just.
00:04:03.040 | Like.
00:04:04.040 | I saw him sacrifice.
00:04:05.040 | So much.
00:04:06.040 | For our youth group.
00:04:07.040 | Um.
00:04:08.040 | His wife.
00:04:09.040 | Was not that involved.
00:04:10.040 | And so I saw him kind of burn out.
00:04:11.040 | Actually.
00:04:12.040 | Mm-hmm.
00:04:13.040 | Trying to serve the youth group.
00:04:14.040 | I really want to find a wife.
00:04:16.040 | Who is going to be.
00:04:17.040 | My equal.
00:04:18.040 | Mm-hmm.
00:04:19.040 | At least.
00:04:20.040 | Um.
00:04:21.040 | Someone who's.
00:04:22.040 | Gonna be doing.
00:04:23.040 | Anyway.
00:04:24.040 | So when I saw Irene.
00:04:25.040 | I was like.
00:04:26.040 | Boom.
00:04:27.040 | There it is.
00:04:28.040 | How did you know?
00:04:29.040 | When did you know?
00:04:30.040 | When did you know?
00:04:31.040 | Okay.
00:04:32.040 | Was that her freshman year?
00:04:33.040 | No.
00:04:34.040 | Okay.
00:04:35.040 | So we went on a.
00:04:36.040 | Cambodia mission trip.
00:04:37.040 | Okay.
00:04:38.040 | So I actually.
00:04:39.040 | Postgrad.
00:04:40.040 | Postgrad.
00:04:41.040 | Postgrad.
00:04:42.040 | Postgrad.
00:04:43.040 | Cause you were there for like.
00:04:44.040 | Three out of the four.
00:04:45.040 | Yeah.
00:04:46.040 | I was there for three out of four.
00:04:47.040 | Yeah.
00:04:48.040 | Yeah.
00:04:49.040 | So.
00:04:50.040 | And then I actually.
00:04:51.040 | I tell undergrads like.
00:04:52.040 | Mission trips.
00:04:53.040 | And things like that.
00:04:54.040 | Are great.
00:04:55.040 | It's a great context.
00:04:56.040 | To kind of get to know someone.
00:04:57.040 | So.
00:04:58.040 | Look around.
00:04:59.040 | That's not why you should go.
00:05:00.040 | While you're there.
00:05:01.040 | Jesus.
00:05:02.040 | For Jesus.
00:05:03.040 | Yeah.
00:05:04.040 | So I just.
00:05:05.040 | I just.
00:05:06.040 | I guess I saw her in a different way.
00:05:07.040 | I knew her.
00:05:08.040 | Uh.
00:05:09.040 | You know.
00:05:10.040 | Throughout undergrad and stuff like that.
00:05:11.040 | But just.
00:05:12.040 | Seeing her zeal.
00:05:13.040 | And like.
00:05:14.040 | Her.
00:05:15.040 | How.
00:05:16.040 | How hard she worked.
00:05:17.040 | It was very appealing to me.
00:05:18.040 | Um.
00:05:19.040 | The only thing was.
00:05:20.040 | Um.
00:05:21.040 | She was really bossy.
00:05:22.040 | Okay.
00:05:23.040 | Okay.
00:05:24.040 | I gotta tell this story though.
00:05:25.040 | Okay.
00:05:26.040 | What do you think now?
00:05:27.040 | Wait.
00:05:28.040 | I am still bossy.
00:05:29.040 | Why do you think she's bossy?
00:05:30.040 | Character ratio.
00:05:31.040 | I'm working on it.
00:05:32.040 | But.
00:05:33.040 | But.
00:05:34.040 | Uh.
00:05:35.040 | So.
00:05:36.040 | We were dating for about a.
00:05:37.040 | Gosh.
00:05:38.040 | I think it was maybe.
00:05:39.040 | We were a month in.
00:05:40.040 | Maybe a month and a half.
00:05:41.040 | And we're having lunch.
00:05:42.040 | And then.
00:05:43.040 | Eating really yummy Korean food.
00:05:44.040 | He goes.
00:05:45.040 | Hey.
00:05:46.040 | So.
00:05:47.040 | Is there anything that you're concerned about me?
00:05:48.040 | Like.
00:05:49.040 | About me.
00:05:50.040 | Like.
00:05:51.040 | Wow.
00:05:52.040 | Okay.
00:05:53.040 | I'm serious.
00:05:54.040 | So.
00:05:55.040 | So.
00:05:56.040 | I say.
00:05:57.040 | Well.
00:05:58.040 | I've heard that you're kind of mechanical.
00:05:59.040 | You know.
00:06:00.040 | Like.
00:06:01.040 | You're kind of mechanical.
00:06:02.040 | And he's like.
00:06:03.040 | Oh yeah.
00:06:04.040 | I'm working on that.
00:06:05.040 | Well.
00:06:06.040 | For you.
00:06:07.040 | You're um.
00:06:08.040 | You're pretty bossy.
00:06:09.040 | Like.
00:06:10.040 | When we were in Cambodia.
00:06:11.040 | I was like.
00:06:12.040 | Dang.
00:06:13.040 | She's bossy.
00:06:14.040 | So.
00:06:15.040 | I was like.
00:06:16.040 | Oh.
00:06:17.040 | And you're like.
00:06:18.040 | I didn't ask.
00:06:19.040 | But the topic.
00:06:20.040 | It felt a little bit like that.
00:06:21.040 | So.
00:06:22.040 | I'm sure.
00:06:23.040 | That's how it felt for her emotionally.
00:06:24.040 | Um.
00:06:25.040 | But.
00:06:26.040 | I thought.
00:06:27.040 | Surely.
00:06:28.040 | She would have some things about me.
00:06:29.040 | That she would.
00:06:30.040 | Find concerning.
00:06:31.040 | Yeah.
00:06:32.040 | Um.
00:06:33.040 | Because.
00:06:34.040 | Again.
00:06:35.040 | After that conversation.
00:06:36.040 | After that conversation.
00:06:37.040 | I had a few concerns.
00:06:38.040 | Yeah.
00:06:39.040 | Yeah.
00:06:40.040 | Yeah.
00:06:41.040 | Now that she mentioned mine.
00:06:42.040 | Yeah.
00:06:43.040 | Wow.
00:06:44.040 | You know.
00:06:45.040 | For me.
00:06:46.040 | It's like.
00:06:47.040 | I.
00:06:48.040 | Yeah.
00:06:49.040 | I just.
00:06:50.040 | I.
00:06:51.040 | I wanted to.
00:06:52.040 | I'm a pretty simple person.
00:06:53.040 | And straightforward.
00:06:54.040 | Maybe too straightforward.
00:06:55.040 | So.
00:06:56.040 | Um.
00:06:57.040 | Yeah.
00:06:58.040 | Yeah.
00:06:59.040 | I wanted to talk about it.
00:07:00.040 | Kind of getting out.
00:07:01.040 | Getting out in the open.
00:07:02.040 | Wow.
00:07:03.040 | He's a serious dude.
00:07:04.040 | Yeah.
00:07:05.040 | Yeah.
00:07:06.040 | Serious dude.
00:07:07.040 | Yeah.
00:07:08.040 | Yeah.
00:07:09.040 | What are some.
00:07:10.040 | Highlights.
00:07:11.040 | That you'd be willing to share.
00:07:12.040 | Oh.
00:07:13.040 | Maybe.
00:07:14.040 | This is your chance to set the record straight.
00:07:15.040 | On.
00:07:16.040 | Some.
00:07:17.040 | Maybe some stories that have.
00:07:18.040 | Accumulated.
00:07:19.040 | Legendary.
00:07:20.040 | Features.
00:07:21.040 | Over time.
00:07:22.040 | I think you gotta say.
00:07:23.040 | Which one you're okay with.
00:07:24.040 | Cause there's just so much.
00:07:25.040 | There are a lot.
00:07:26.040 | There are a lot.
00:07:27.040 | There are a lot.
00:07:28.040 | Um.
00:07:29.040 | Is it more of the same kind of.
00:07:30.040 | Pattern?
00:07:31.040 | Yeah.
00:07:32.040 | I guess.
00:07:33.040 | I think so.
00:07:34.040 | He's a serious dude.
00:07:35.040 | Yeah.
00:07:36.040 | Yeah.
00:07:37.040 | Alright.
00:07:38.040 | Um.
00:07:39.040 | Are you gonna make him tell it?
00:07:41.040 | No.
00:07:42.040 | No.
00:07:43.040 | He just needs to give me permission.
00:07:44.040 | To tell which one.
00:07:45.040 | You know.
00:07:46.040 | Maybe you should give him some options.
00:07:47.040 | I already gave him many options.
00:07:48.040 | Oh.
00:07:49.040 | We're good.
00:07:50.040 | Yeah.
00:07:51.040 | Okay.
00:07:52.040 | Well we got time.
00:07:53.040 | We got time.
00:07:54.040 | Alright.
00:07:55.040 | Okay.
00:07:56.040 | You wanna tell the supermodel story?
00:07:57.040 | Okay.
00:07:58.040 | Sure.
00:07:59.040 | Okay.
00:08:00.040 | So this one's a classic.
00:08:01.040 | Our students get a kick out of this one.
00:08:02.040 | Yeah.
00:08:03.040 | Yeah.
00:08:04.040 | Yeah.
00:08:05.040 | We tell this one frequently.
00:08:06.040 | We're on a lunch date.
00:08:07.040 | And then somehow the topic of.
00:08:08.040 | Oh.
00:08:09.040 | Um.
00:08:10.040 | What kind of girls does your brother like?
00:08:11.040 | Comes up.
00:08:12.040 | And he goes.
00:08:13.040 | I have an older brother.
00:08:14.040 | Older brother.
00:08:15.040 | Um.
00:08:16.040 | Alpha female.
00:08:17.040 | Prettiest.
00:08:18.040 | Smartest.
00:08:19.040 | The one that all the guys wanna date.
00:08:20.040 | And he goes.
00:08:21.040 | But I don't care about that stuff.
00:08:22.040 | I'm like.
00:08:23.040 | I'm like.
00:08:24.040 | Ah.
00:08:25.040 | You know.
00:08:26.040 | And I'm like.
00:08:27.040 | You know.
00:08:28.040 | I could find that like.
00:08:29.040 | Kind of offensive.
00:08:30.040 | And then he goes.
00:08:31.040 | Why?
00:08:32.040 | You know what?
00:08:33.040 | Let's not talk about this anymore.
00:08:34.040 | You know what?
00:08:35.040 | Let's not talk about this anymore.
00:08:36.040 | Let's move on.
00:08:37.040 | He goes.
00:08:38.040 | No.
00:08:39.040 | I don't understand.
00:08:40.040 | So then.
00:08:41.040 | So then.
00:08:42.040 | I'm like.
00:08:43.040 | You know what?
00:08:44.040 | Let's not talk about this anymore.
00:08:45.040 | You know what?
00:08:46.040 | Let's not talk about this anymore.
00:08:47.040 | Um.
00:08:48.040 | Let's move on.
00:08:49.040 | He goes.
00:08:50.040 | No.
00:08:51.040 | I don't understand.
00:08:52.040 | So then.
00:08:53.040 | So then.
00:08:54.040 | So then.
00:08:55.040 | I say.
00:08:56.040 | Okay.
00:08:57.040 | So.
00:08:58.040 | Like.
00:08:59.040 | You're insinuating something about me.
00:09:00.040 | By saying what you just said.
00:09:01.040 | Um.
00:09:02.040 | He's like.
00:09:03.040 | Yeah.
00:09:04.040 | Okay.
00:09:05.040 | I don't understand.
00:09:06.040 | And I was like.
00:09:07.040 | Okay.
00:09:08.040 | So.
00:09:09.040 | Never heard.
00:09:10.040 | Oh really?
00:09:11.040 | Yeah.
00:09:12.040 | Short fat bald guy.
00:09:13.040 | And then.
00:09:14.040 | And then he's like.
00:09:15.040 | So I would feel more comfortable.
00:09:16.040 | Like if you said that.
00:09:17.040 | You're fine with short fat bald guys.
00:09:18.040 | Uh huh.
00:09:19.040 | Anyway.
00:09:20.040 | So basically.
00:09:21.040 | Like.
00:09:22.040 | I keep trying to.
00:09:23.040 | Like.
00:09:24.040 | Go away from this topic.
00:09:25.040 | I don't want to talk about this anymore.
00:09:26.040 | But he just.
00:09:27.040 | He starts ramping up at me.
00:09:28.040 | Like.
00:09:29.040 | He gets mad at me.
00:09:30.040 | Right?
00:09:31.040 | He's ramping up.
00:09:32.040 | And I'm like.
00:09:33.040 | I just.
00:09:34.040 | You know what?
00:09:35.040 | Can we just not talk about.
00:09:36.040 | I don't understand.
00:09:37.040 | Um.
00:09:38.040 | Okay.
00:09:39.040 | Like.
00:09:40.040 | I don't really want to talk about this anymore.
00:09:42.040 | Uh huh.
00:09:43.040 | And then.
00:09:44.040 | He's like ramping up.
00:09:45.040 | And he goes.
00:09:46.040 | Well.
00:09:47.040 | It's not like you're a supermodel or something.
00:09:49.040 | Uh huh.
00:09:50.040 | Uh huh.
00:09:51.040 | Uh huh.
00:09:52.040 | Uh huh.
00:09:53.040 | So.
00:09:54.040 | What did you do?
00:09:55.040 | So at that point.
00:09:56.040 | I just.
00:09:57.040 | I.
00:09:58.040 | I didn't know what to do.
00:09:59.040 | You know.
00:10:00.040 | So I just.
00:10:01.040 | I said.
00:10:02.040 | You know what Joe.
00:10:03.040 | I've never thought I was a supermodel.
00:10:04.040 | Like ever in my life.
00:10:05.040 | And I said.
00:10:06.040 | But I think I'm done with lunch.
00:10:07.040 | Okay.
00:10:08.040 | So then I wrap up.
00:10:09.040 | And then I get up.
00:10:10.040 | And then I.
00:10:11.040 | I'm walking to the car.
00:10:12.040 | I probably realized.
00:10:13.040 | Oh.
00:10:14.040 | I probably said something wrong.
00:10:15.040 | So he's.
00:10:16.040 | Like scurrying after me.
00:10:17.040 | He's like.
00:10:18.040 | Okay.
00:10:19.040 | I'll see you later.
00:10:20.040 | And then I'm like.
00:10:21.040 | And I close the door.
00:10:22.040 | And I peel out.
00:10:23.040 | Right.
00:10:24.040 | About 10-15 minutes later.
00:10:25.040 | He calls me.
00:10:26.040 | And he goes.
00:10:27.040 | Uh.
00:10:28.040 | I think you're beautiful.
00:10:30.040 | There was definitely a question mark at the end of it.
00:10:33.040 | So.
00:10:34.040 | That's a good move.
00:10:39.040 | Yeah.
00:10:40.040 | So when I talk to other sisters about it.
00:10:44.040 | They're like.
00:10:45.040 | You gotta take the full package.
00:10:46.040 | Um.
00:10:47.040 | Wow.
00:10:48.040 | Yeah.
00:10:49.040 | Yeah.
00:10:50.040 | How long into our relationship was that?
00:10:52.040 | I think that was maybe like.
00:10:54.040 | Two.
00:10:55.040 | Two.
00:10:55.040 | Three months.
00:10:56.040 | Something like that.
00:10:57.040 | Two.
00:10:57.040 | Three months.
00:10:58.040 | Yeah.
00:10:59.040 | It's probably around there.
00:11:00.040 | But he has this whole reason and everything.
00:11:02.040 | Like.
00:11:03.040 | You have to give him the back story.
00:11:05.040 | Like.
00:11:06.040 | It's cause.
00:11:07.040 | Women are insecure.
00:11:08.040 | And you know.
00:11:09.040 | Men.
00:11:10.040 | Yeah.
00:11:11.040 | Well.
00:11:12.040 | Okay.
00:11:13.040 | Um.
00:11:14.040 | Joe does not want to talk about this.
00:11:15.040 | I grew up with very few female friends.
00:11:18.040 | I just hung out with the bros.
00:11:19.040 | His dad apologized to me.
00:11:20.040 | Like.
00:11:21.040 | When he met me.
00:11:22.040 | Knowing that.
00:11:23.040 | You know.
00:11:24.040 | I had an older brother.
00:11:25.040 | probably just rough housing all the time.
00:11:27.040 | So.
00:11:28.040 | I really didn't understand.
00:11:29.040 | Like.
00:11:30.040 | The female psyche.
00:11:31.040 | Mm.
00:11:32.040 | Um.
00:11:33.040 | But.
00:11:34.040 | You know.
00:11:35.040 | Like I mentioned earlier.
00:11:36.040 | Really what I wanted.
00:11:37.040 | Was.
00:11:38.040 | Uh.
00:11:39.040 | Someone who was gonna be a good wife.
00:11:41.040 | A good mom.
00:11:42.040 | And a good minister.
00:11:44.040 | That's really what I cared about.
00:11:45.040 | Someone who loved Jesus.
00:11:46.040 | And someone who's gonna do that.
00:11:47.040 | Like.
00:11:48.040 | With me.
00:11:49.040 | Mm.
00:11:50.040 | Till the end.
00:11:51.040 | Partner until we die.
00:11:52.040 | That's what I was looking for.
00:11:53.040 | Mm.
00:11:54.040 | I didn't care.
00:11:55.040 | About.
00:11:56.040 | Like.
00:11:57.040 | The world's beauty standards.
00:12:00.040 | Mm.
00:12:01.040 | Stuff like that.
00:12:02.040 | Was not.
00:12:03.040 | Like.
00:12:04.040 | Something I.
00:12:05.040 | Like.
00:12:06.040 | Was not high on my list.
00:12:07.040 | Mm.
00:12:08.040 | And I thought.
00:12:09.040 | Surely that's a good thing.
00:12:12.040 | Here's the world.
00:12:13.040 | Amen.
00:12:14.040 | Take notes.
00:12:15.040 | Here's the world.
00:12:16.040 | Telling women.
00:12:17.040 | That.
00:12:18.040 | Their worth is defined by their.
00:12:20.040 | By their appearance.
00:12:21.040 | In fact.
00:12:22.040 | That's.
00:12:23.040 | Now that I have daughters.
00:12:24.040 | I understand it a little bit more.
00:12:26.040 | Because I see it in them.
00:12:27.040 | And how much it affects them.
00:12:28.040 | Mm.
00:12:29.040 | But it's.
00:12:30.040 | It's really crazy.
00:12:31.040 | I actually hate that part of the world.
00:12:33.040 | Mm.
00:12:34.040 | That tells women.
00:12:35.040 | That their values about their appearance.
00:12:36.040 | Okay.
00:12:37.040 | So.
00:12:38.040 | There's that.
00:12:39.040 | Now I'm like.
00:12:40.040 | I don't care about that stuff.
00:12:42.040 | I care about.
00:12:43.040 | Your character.
00:12:44.040 | I care about.
00:12:45.040 | Isn't that.
00:12:46.040 | A good thing.
00:12:47.040 | Isn't it a good thing.
00:12:48.040 | It is.
00:12:49.040 | That's the thing.
00:12:50.040 | That's what makes it so confusing.
00:12:51.040 | The one who wants to date you.
00:12:52.040 | Like your husband.
00:12:53.040 | That's true.
00:12:54.040 | I agree.
00:12:55.040 | Like.
00:12:56.040 | Is not about that.
00:12:57.040 | And just.
00:12:58.040 | Cares about.
00:12:59.040 | Your soul.
00:13:00.040 | Like.
00:13:01.040 | That's what I didn't understand.
00:13:02.040 | Yeah.
00:13:03.040 | Wait a minute.
00:13:04.040 | Wait a minute.
00:13:05.040 | Wait a minute.
00:13:06.040 | Why am I the bad guy.
00:13:07.040 | The world is the bad guy.
00:13:08.040 | I.
00:13:09.040 | I.
00:13:10.040 | I.
00:13:11.040 | Isn't this good.
00:13:12.040 | Isn't it good that you have a husband who wants this.
00:13:13.040 | That's what I.
00:13:14.040 | Didn't understand.
00:13:15.040 | I was getting ramped up.
00:13:16.040 | And I was just.
00:13:17.040 | I just.
00:13:18.040 | Yeah.
00:13:19.040 | I don't know what to say to that.
00:13:20.040 | Cause that's.
00:13:21.040 | So.
00:13:22.040 | So I thought about it.
00:13:23.040 | Yeah.
00:13:24.040 | So I thought about it.
00:13:25.040 | And I realized.
00:13:26.040 | I spent some time journaling about it.
00:13:27.040 | Cause I.
00:13:28.040 | After this incident.
00:13:29.040 | What's going on.
00:13:30.040 | So.
00:13:31.040 | And I realized.
00:13:32.040 | I realized.
00:13:33.040 | Um.
00:13:34.040 | Actually when she said.
00:13:35.040 | You know.
00:13:36.040 | If you were a short fat bald guy.
00:13:38.040 | Like how would you feel.
00:13:39.040 | In other words.
00:13:40.040 | She flipped it on me.
00:13:41.040 | And actually my.
00:13:42.040 | Honest emotional reaction was.
00:13:44.040 | Oh.
00:13:45.040 | That would be great.
00:13:46.040 | Why don't you feel that way.
00:13:48.040 | It's kind of how I was feeling right.
00:13:49.040 | But I realized.
00:13:50.040 | It's because.
00:13:51.040 | Generally speaking.
00:13:53.040 | The thing that women are insecure about.
00:13:55.040 | And men are insecure about.
00:13:56.040 | Are very different.
00:13:57.040 | Men are not insecure about their looks.
00:13:59.040 | Generally speaking.
00:14:00.040 | So they don't care.
00:14:01.040 | Yeah.
00:14:02.040 | And we're all kind of deluded.
00:14:03.040 | Right.
00:14:04.040 | So I actually had to.
00:14:05.040 | Translate it.
00:14:06.040 | And then.
00:14:07.040 | I thought.
00:14:08.040 | I sort of ran this.
00:14:09.040 | Thought experiment.
00:14:10.040 | If she said.
00:14:11.040 | You know what.
00:14:12.040 | If you were a total loser.
00:14:13.040 | And you would amount to nothing.
00:14:14.040 | And you would add value to no one.
00:14:16.040 | And no one would respect you.
00:14:18.040 | But I would still marry you.
00:14:19.040 | How would you feel.
00:14:20.040 | That's.
00:14:21.040 | That's when I was like.
00:14:22.040 | That hurts.
00:14:23.040 | Wow.
00:14:24.040 | And I go.
00:14:25.040 | That's what she was feeling.
00:14:26.040 | Because.
00:14:27.040 | Her source of insecurities.
00:14:28.040 | Is.
00:14:29.040 | Is in that.
00:14:30.040 | And that's what I touched.
00:14:31.040 | And.
00:14:32.040 | And if I had to translate it.
00:14:33.040 | To this.
00:14:34.040 | To the male thing.
00:14:35.040 | I was like.
00:14:36.040 | Oh.
00:14:37.040 | That would have hurt actually.
00:14:38.040 | A lot.
00:14:39.040 | And that's when I realized.
00:14:40.040 | I did a bad thing.
00:14:41.040 | Yeah.
00:14:42.040 | Yeah.
00:14:43.040 | So that's when.
00:14:44.040 | I kind of.
00:14:45.040 | Yeah.
00:14:46.040 | We talked about it.
00:14:47.040 | I apologize.
00:14:48.040 | Is that when you called and said.
00:14:49.040 | No, no, no.
00:14:50.040 | That was.
00:14:51.040 | That was just.
00:14:52.040 | I didn't know what to do.
00:14:53.040 | Yeah.
00:14:54.040 | Yeah.
00:14:55.040 | Yeah.
00:14:56.040 | Yeah.
00:14:56.040 | It was.
00:14:57.040 | I kind of thought about it later that night.
00:14:58.040 | And sort of.
00:14:59.040 | Yeah.
00:15:00.040 | Wow.
00:15:01.040 | Did you share all those insights with her?
00:15:02.040 | Like.
00:15:03.040 | I did.
00:15:04.040 | Afterwards.
00:15:05.040 | Oh.
00:15:06.040 | I think you only shared it after we were married.
00:15:07.040 | Oh really?
00:15:08.040 | Yeah.
00:15:09.040 | I was grateful for a thoughtful husband.
00:15:11.040 | Wow.
00:15:12.040 | Yeah.
00:15:13.040 | Someone who would journal about that.
00:15:14.040 | Yeah.
00:15:15.040 | After it happening.
00:15:16.040 | Yeah.
00:15:17.040 | It was very thoughtful.
00:15:18.040 | Yeah.
00:15:19.040 | I don't know how many guys would do that.
00:15:20.040 | Yeah.
00:15:21.040 | That's amazing.
00:15:22.040 | Marriage has caused me to journal more than anything.
00:15:24.040 | It's been good.
00:15:25.040 | Praise the Lord.
00:15:26.040 | Wow.
00:15:27.040 | Wow.
00:15:28.040 | Okay.
00:15:28.040 | I don't know if we're going to top that one.
00:15:29.040 | But.
00:15:30.040 | Yeah.
00:15:31.040 | Should we.
00:15:32.040 | Should we.
00:15:33.040 | I forgot what we were talking about.
00:15:34.040 | Yeah.
00:15:35.040 | So tell us more about marriage.
00:15:36.040 | Oh.
00:15:37.040 | Yeah.
00:15:38.040 | I'm just.
00:15:39.040 | I'm like so.
00:15:40.040 | I'm just trying to process.
00:15:41.040 | It's like I'm learning things.
00:15:42.040 | This is like.
00:15:43.040 | This is a little much right now.
00:15:44.040 | Okay.
00:15:45.040 | So okay.
00:15:46.040 | Well okay.
00:15:47.040 | Let's move on.
00:15:48.040 | So on that note.
00:15:49.040 | I feel like.
00:15:50.040 | Yeah.
00:15:51.040 | We'll have a bonus episode with them later.
00:15:52.040 | Where we'll have more of these stories.
00:15:53.040 | And just get some wisdom I think.
00:15:54.040 | But.
00:15:55.040 | Okay.
00:15:56.040 | So on that note.
00:15:57.040 | We do want to talk about dating.
00:15:58.040 | And.
00:15:59.040 | I feel like dating is one of these things where.
00:16:00.040 | It's sort of.
00:16:01.040 | It's in the air.
00:16:02.040 | At our church.
00:16:03.040 | I mean it's in the air.
00:16:04.040 | In college of course.
00:16:05.040 | Everyone's thinking about dating.
00:16:06.040 | The reality is there's some sort of stigma attached to it.
00:16:08.040 | And at least like.
00:16:09.040 | I don't know.
00:16:10.040 | I'm just going to share my experience.
00:16:11.040 | At Rutgers.
00:16:12.040 | I mean it's like we never talk about dating.
00:16:13.040 | Actually.
00:16:14.040 | I don't think I've.
00:16:15.040 | I preach every Sunday.
00:16:16.040 | I don't think I've ever preached about it.
00:16:17.040 | Or.
00:16:18.040 | Hasn't really come up in discipleship or anything.
00:16:19.040 | Um.
00:16:20.040 | But.
00:16:21.040 | Even despite that.
00:16:22.040 | Like I think.
00:16:23.040 | There is this sort of sense that like.
00:16:25.040 | Oh.
00:16:26.040 | Acts 2 network.
00:16:27.040 | Anti dating.
00:16:28.040 | I think if I had to sum it up.
00:16:30.040 | That's an oversimplification.
00:16:31.040 | But that is sort of the sense.
00:16:32.040 | Puritanical.
00:16:33.040 | Yeah.
00:16:34.040 | So.
00:16:35.040 | I.
00:16:36.040 | We did hear that you guys.
00:16:37.040 | About once a year.
00:16:38.040 | You do have like a little seminar.
00:16:39.040 | On the.
00:16:40.040 | On the dating topic.
00:16:41.040 | So we just want to hear like.
00:16:42.040 | How.
00:16:42.040 | Yeah.
00:16:43.040 | What are your thoughts about.
00:16:44.040 | Specifically.
00:16:45.040 | Undergrads.
00:16:46.040 | Dating.
00:16:47.040 | Like.
00:16:48.040 | For it.
00:16:49.040 | Against it.
00:16:50.040 | What do you think about it.
00:16:51.040 | And what's some wisdom that you shared.
00:16:52.040 | Maybe just.
00:16:53.040 | Break it down for us a little.
00:16:54.040 | Yeah.
00:16:55.040 | Sure.
00:16:56.040 | Yeah.
00:16:57.040 | So we ended up doing that.
00:16:58.040 | Because.
00:16:59.040 | That's one of the most popular topics.
00:17:00.040 | For office hours.
00:17:01.040 | Yeah.
00:17:02.040 | And I just kept talking about it.
00:17:03.040 | Every week.
00:17:04.040 | Different people.
00:17:05.040 | I thought.
00:17:06.040 | Hey.
00:17:07.040 | Might as well just kind of.
00:17:08.040 | Put it all together.
00:17:09.040 | Yeah.
00:17:10.040 | So everyone here at the same time.
00:17:11.040 | Because I think it's a hugely important topic.
00:17:12.040 | Yeah.
00:17:12.040 | Kind of how you started.
00:17:13.040 | Because a lot of people.
00:17:14.040 | Kind of think that we have a stance on it.
00:17:17.040 | And.
00:17:18.040 | I have to keep telling people.
00:17:19.040 | We don't.
00:17:20.040 | Like.
00:17:21.040 | As far as I know.
00:17:22.040 | At least.
00:17:23.040 | Yeah.
00:17:24.040 | I think we.
00:17:25.040 | I think it's fair to say.
00:17:26.040 | We used to.
00:17:27.040 | Like.
00:17:28.040 | Back in the day.
00:17:29.040 | Like.
00:17:30.040 | I don't know how far back.
00:17:31.040 | But.
00:17:32.040 | It has changed.
00:17:33.040 | It's changed.
00:17:34.040 | Yeah.
00:17:35.040 | The reality is.
00:17:36.040 | I don't think we do anymore.
00:17:37.040 | Yeah.
00:17:38.040 | Yeah.
00:17:39.040 | So.
00:17:40.040 | A lot of.
00:17:41.040 | principles.
00:17:42.040 | Principles.
00:17:43.040 | And how that works out.
00:17:44.040 | In your life.
00:17:45.040 | So.
00:17:46.040 | Um.
00:17:47.040 | Yeah.
00:17:48.040 | So.
00:17:48.040 | I guess.
00:17:49.040 | I don't know.
00:17:50.040 | There's a lot that goes into that.
00:17:51.040 | Like.
00:17:52.040 | Dating.
00:17:53.040 | Again.
00:17:54.040 | Because it's a huge topic.
00:17:55.040 | There's a lot of wisdom around it.
00:17:56.040 | There's a lot of ways to think about it.
00:17:57.040 | But I guess if I had to like.
00:17:58.040 | Boil it down.
00:17:59.040 | Um.
00:18:00.040 | I guess it would be.
00:18:01.040 | Like.
00:18:02.040 | Let's look at the bible.
00:18:03.040 | For what it says about dating.
00:18:04.040 | Okay.
00:18:05.040 | It doesn't say anything.
00:18:06.040 | There's nothing.
00:18:07.040 | There's nothing.
00:18:08.040 | There's nothing.
00:18:09.040 | There's nothing in there.
00:18:10.040 | End of discussion.
00:18:11.040 | Right.
00:18:12.040 | See you later.
00:18:13.040 | It's.
00:18:14.040 | It.
00:18:15.040 | Dating didn't exist back then.
00:18:16.040 | Right.
00:18:17.040 | So.
00:18:18.040 | So how do you think biblically about dating.
00:18:19.040 | Yeah.
00:18:20.040 | Well you gotta start with what you know.
00:18:21.040 | Right.
00:18:22.040 | Start with what you know.
00:18:23.040 | And then extrapolate that to.
00:18:24.040 | To how it can plan out.
00:18:25.040 | So.
00:18:26.040 | So then.
00:18:27.040 | Like.
00:18:28.040 | The bible says a lot about marriage though.
00:18:29.040 | And it says.
00:18:30.040 | That marriage is like.
00:18:32.040 | Incredibly important.
00:18:33.040 | Like.
00:18:34.040 | The kind of relationship between a.
00:18:35.040 | Husband and wife.
00:18:36.040 | Is that you become one flesh.
00:18:38.040 | That.
00:18:39.040 | Should never separate.
00:18:40.040 | Except for like.
00:18:41.040 | Really extreme situations.
00:18:42.040 | So.
00:18:43.040 | It's like.
00:18:44.040 | Incredibly important.
00:18:45.040 | Such a powerful.
00:18:46.040 | Relationship.
00:18:47.040 | If that's the case.
00:18:48.040 | It should be treated as such.
00:18:50.040 | A lot of people told me.
00:18:52.040 | Marriage is like the second.
00:18:54.040 | Most important decision.
00:18:55.040 | You'll ever make in your life.
00:18:56.040 | After your decision to become Christian.
00:18:58.040 | Right.
00:18:59.040 | I can see that.
00:19:00.040 | So.
00:19:01.040 | Then we gotta treat that with a lot of care.
00:19:03.040 | Cause you don't wanna mess that up.
00:19:05.040 | It's a beautiful gift that God has given us.
00:19:07.040 | But.
00:19:08.040 | The.
00:19:09.040 | The more beautiful something is.
00:19:12.040 | The more ugly it can become.
00:19:14.040 | If it isn't treated properly.
00:19:16.040 | So.
00:19:17.040 | So then what is dating.
00:19:18.040 | It's kinda getting ready for marriage.
00:19:19.040 | So you wanna do that.
00:19:20.040 | Really really well.
00:19:21.040 | So then in terms of like.
00:19:23.040 | How to.
00:19:24.040 | How to date and all that.
00:19:25.040 | There's a lot of wisdom there.
00:19:26.040 | But I think what most undergrads.
00:19:29.040 | Wanna know is.
00:19:30.040 | When can I start dating.
00:19:32.040 | Yeah.
00:19:33.040 | Am I ready.
00:19:34.040 | When can I start dating.
00:19:35.040 | And for that.
00:19:36.040 | Usually what I tell them.
00:19:37.040 | Is something along the lines of.
00:19:38.040 | When you're ready to be married in a few years.
00:19:40.040 | If you're ready to be married in a few years.
00:19:41.040 | Mm.
00:19:42.040 | If you're ready to be married in a few years.
00:19:43.040 | That's a good time to start dating.
00:19:45.040 | Mm.
00:19:46.040 | Um.
00:19:47.040 | Yeah.
00:19:48.040 | And I guess like.
00:19:49.040 | Really it comes down to.
00:19:50.040 | Practically.
00:19:51.040 | Um.
00:19:52.040 | I just think it's really hard to date someone for like five, six years and not be married.
00:19:58.040 | Mm.
00:19:59.040 | God wants.
00:20:00.040 | The boundary of sex to be within a marriage.
00:20:02.040 | To enhance that marriage.
00:20:03.040 | To seal that marriage.
00:20:05.040 | Consummate that marriage.
00:20:06.040 | And to date someone that you're very attracted to.
00:20:11.040 | For five years.
00:20:12.040 | And not consummate that relationship.
00:20:14.040 | Is actually really, really hard.
00:20:16.040 | Mm.
00:20:17.040 | I think the world solution of just.
00:20:18.040 | You know, premarital sex is not what.
00:20:20.040 | It's not God honoring.
00:20:21.040 | That's not what God would want.
00:20:22.040 | So.
00:20:23.040 | Mm.
00:20:24.040 | Just practically speaking.
00:20:25.040 | To start dating.
00:20:26.040 | Mm.
00:20:27.040 | Uh.
00:20:28.040 | Looking towards marriage.
00:20:29.040 | But doing it.
00:20:30.040 | When you're practically ready to be married in a few years.
00:20:33.040 | Mm.
00:20:34.040 | Yeah.
00:20:35.040 | So do you guys have like at Irvine.
00:20:37.040 | Um.
00:20:38.040 | You guys have couples who are dating.
00:20:39.040 | And how do you go about like ministering to them.
00:20:41.040 | And like yeah.
00:20:42.040 | Tell us a little bit about that.
00:20:43.040 | Yeah.
00:20:44.040 | So.
00:20:45.040 | We do have a couple undergrads who are dating.
00:20:46.040 | And it really is case by case.
00:20:48.040 | It just kind of depends on the person.
00:20:49.040 | And um.
00:20:50.040 | How well we know them.
00:20:51.040 | Yeah.
00:20:52.040 | And then um.
00:20:53.040 | How much they want to talk about it.
00:20:54.040 | You know.
00:20:55.040 | It's always permission based.
00:20:56.040 | So.
00:20:57.040 | Hey.
00:20:58.040 | If this is something you guys want to talk about.
00:20:59.040 | Receive wisdom about.
00:21:00.040 | We are available to you.
00:21:01.040 | Uh.
00:21:02.040 | And some people take us up on that.
00:21:03.040 | And some people don't.
00:21:04.040 | Give up to them.
00:21:05.040 | Yeah.
00:21:06.040 | So there's no like.
00:21:07.040 | I don't know.
00:21:08.040 | Does that.
00:21:09.040 | Does that cause like.
00:21:10.040 | I don't know.
00:21:11.040 | Drama.
00:21:12.040 | Or like.
00:21:13.040 | Do people break up.
00:21:14.040 | Like.
00:21:15.040 | You know.
00:21:16.040 | Again.
00:21:17.040 | Depends on the couple.
00:21:18.040 | Yeah.
00:21:19.040 | And then some.
00:21:20.040 | Some like.
00:21:21.040 | Are not.
00:21:22.040 | But doesn't cause drama.
00:21:23.040 | Some.
00:21:24.040 | Some are.
00:21:25.040 | And does.
00:21:26.040 | Inevitably cause drama.
00:21:27.040 | Right.
00:21:28.040 | So yeah.
00:21:29.040 | It just kind of depends.
00:21:30.040 | Like a college pastor.
00:21:31.040 | Is.
00:21:32.040 | Like.
00:21:33.040 | Okay.
00:21:33.040 | So traditionally.
00:21:34.040 | One thing that.
00:21:35.040 | I've always thought is.
00:21:36.040 | And that.
00:21:37.040 | I think our church has practices.
00:21:38.040 | Hey.
00:21:39.040 | We don't want to.
00:21:40.040 | Like a flirtatious environment.
00:21:41.040 | So for me.
00:21:42.040 | It's like.
00:21:43.040 | That's fine.
00:21:44.040 | Like.
00:21:45.040 | It's.
00:21:46.040 | I mean.
00:21:47.040 | It's your life.
00:21:48.040 | I'm not.
00:21:49.040 | You're an adult.
00:21:50.040 | I'm not going to control you.
00:21:51.040 | But.
00:21:52.040 | If you come in.
00:21:53.040 | You start to like.
00:21:54.040 | Shift the atmosphere.
00:21:55.040 | And the culture of my.
00:21:56.040 | Of our group.
00:21:57.040 | Then it does sort of.
00:21:58.040 | Veer into the territory.
00:21:59.040 | Of like.
00:22:00.040 | Okay.
00:22:01.040 | Do I need to do something.
00:22:02.040 | About that.
00:22:03.040 | So.
00:22:04.040 | I'm just wondering.
00:22:05.040 | How have you guys.
00:22:06.040 | Thought about that.
00:22:07.040 | And like.
00:22:08.040 | What are some conclusions.
00:22:09.040 | Or.
00:22:10.040 | Kind of practices.
00:22:11.040 | That you've drawn.
00:22:12.040 | Hmm.
00:22:12.040 | Yeah.
00:22:12.040 | In our hearts.
00:22:13.040 | Yeah.
00:22:14.040 | As like.
00:22:15.040 | A ministering couple.
00:22:16.040 | Trying to.
00:22:17.040 | Help non-Christians.
00:22:18.040 | Come into an environment.
00:22:19.040 | Where they're not being distracted.
00:22:20.040 | By a lot of the.
00:22:21.040 | Kind of meat market.
00:22:22.040 | Kind of mentality.
00:22:23.040 | Where everybody's scoping.
00:22:24.040 | Everybody else out.
00:22:25.040 | Yeah.
00:22:26.040 | So.
00:22:27.040 | I mean.
00:22:28.040 | When we talk about.
00:22:29.040 | I guess.
00:22:30.040 | One of the reasons.
00:22:31.040 | Why we talk about it.
00:22:32.040 | On like.
00:22:33.040 | An annual basis.
00:22:34.040 | I guess.
00:22:35.040 | Is because.
00:22:36.040 | We want to talk about.
00:22:37.040 | How it affects.
00:22:38.040 | The culture.
00:22:39.040 | How it affects.
00:22:40.040 | The overall atmosphere.
00:22:41.040 | The reality that.
00:22:42.040 | We're interested in.
00:22:43.040 | Allowing anybody to hear.
00:22:44.040 | About the gospel.
00:22:45.040 | Yeah.
00:22:46.040 | Anybody and everybody.
00:22:47.040 | Who's.
00:22:48.040 | Who's desiring to.
00:22:49.040 | And.
00:22:50.040 | If you have.
00:22:51.040 | This atmosphere.
00:22:52.040 | Where people are like.
00:22:53.040 | Scoping each other out.
00:22:54.040 | Or there's lots of PDA.
00:22:55.040 | And then everybody's kind of yearning.
00:22:56.040 | And then everybody's kind of yearning.
00:22:57.040 | For that.
00:22:58.040 | How much of a distraction.
00:22:59.040 | That can become.
00:23:00.040 | From them being able to hear.
00:23:01.040 | From the word of God.
00:23:02.040 | Or from them.
00:23:03.040 | Even investigating.
00:23:04.040 | Because they feel like.
00:23:05.040 | They don't belong in.
00:23:06.040 | There's a.
00:23:07.040 | There's a testimonial.
00:23:08.040 | That we actually share.
00:23:09.040 | During the.
00:23:10.040 | I guess.
00:23:10.040 | The dating courtship talk.
00:23:11.040 | That we have.
00:23:12.040 | Where.
00:23:13.040 | There was a non-Christian guy.
00:23:14.040 | He wanted to check out church.
00:23:15.040 | He goes to his friends church.
00:23:16.040 | And then like.
00:23:18.040 | You know.
00:23:19.040 | His friends with him.
00:23:20.040 | But as soon as the girls arrive.
00:23:21.040 | He dips.
00:23:22.040 | Like.
00:23:23.040 | He's like.
00:23:24.040 | Standing there.
00:23:25.040 | By himself at church.
00:23:26.040 | He doesn't even know.
00:23:27.040 | What to do.
00:23:28.040 | Because it's church.
00:23:29.040 | You know.
00:23:30.040 | But basically.
00:23:31.040 | All the guys.
00:23:32.040 | Are like.
00:23:33.040 | Trying to get the attention.
00:23:34.040 | Of the girls.
00:23:35.040 | And the girls are interested.
00:23:36.040 | In getting attention.
00:23:37.040 | Of the guys.
00:23:38.040 | And then.
00:23:39.040 | So this new guys.
00:23:40.040 | Non-Christian.
00:23:41.040 | Wants to hear about the gospel.
00:23:42.040 | But he's like.
00:23:43.040 | This is not the place for me.
00:23:44.040 | Um.
00:23:45.040 | And so.
00:23:46.040 | As we kind of share.
00:23:47.040 | About testimonies like that.
00:23:48.040 | Or.
00:23:49.040 | Um.
00:23:50.040 | I think personally.
00:23:51.040 | We'll have conversations.
00:23:52.040 | With people.
00:23:53.040 | If we have enough relationship.
00:23:54.040 | With them.
00:23:55.040 | Like.
00:23:56.040 | Hey.
00:23:57.040 | Like.
00:23:58.040 | If you could cool it.
00:23:59.040 | A little bit.
00:24:00.040 | Because.
00:24:01.040 | Like.
00:24:02.040 | This is an area.
00:24:03.040 | That people are struggling with.
00:24:04.040 | And if they don't have that relationship.
00:24:05.040 | It can be distraction.
00:24:06.040 | For them.
00:24:07.040 | So we do actually.
00:24:08.040 | Have pretty straight up conversations.
00:24:09.040 | With people.
00:24:10.040 | But you know.
00:24:11.040 | In the end.
00:24:12.040 | Like.
00:24:13.040 | Like.
00:24:14.040 | People take it well.
00:24:15.040 | Yeah.
00:24:16.040 | On the whole.
00:24:17.040 | I think.
00:24:18.040 | Well.
00:24:19.040 | I don't know.
00:24:20.040 | I just.
00:24:21.040 | I feel like.
00:24:22.040 | Actually.
00:24:23.040 | Most people don't.
00:24:24.040 | Haven't thought about that.
00:24:25.040 | Yeah.
00:24:26.040 | We could see that.
00:24:27.040 | Yeah.
00:24:28.040 | Or atmosphere.
00:24:29.040 | Or those types of things.
00:24:30.040 | Yeah.
00:24:31.040 | Yeah.
00:24:32.040 | So like.
00:24:33.040 | As far as it goes.
00:24:34.040 | I don't.
00:24:35.040 | I don't ever remember that.
00:24:36.040 | Conversation.
00:24:37.040 | Not going well.
00:24:38.040 | I mean.
00:24:39.040 | It's pretty.
00:24:40.040 | Yeah.
00:24:41.040 | I don't know.
00:24:42.040 | Dating.
00:24:43.040 | You got to think about it.
00:24:44.040 | Be thoughtful about it.
00:24:45.040 | Be careful about it.
00:24:46.040 | If you're going to do it.
00:24:47.040 | You know.
00:24:48.040 | That's okay.
00:24:49.040 | But hey.
00:24:50.040 | Let's just do it like.
00:24:51.040 | In a classy way.
00:24:52.040 | Where it's not going to be distracting to the rest of the group.
00:24:53.040 | Yeah.
00:24:54.040 | And then I guess the other thing is like.
00:24:55.040 | I.
00:24:56.040 | You know.
00:24:57.040 | One thing I'm always.
00:24:58.040 | Trying to inspire college students to do.
00:25:00.040 | Is to see their campus.
00:25:02.040 | Christian college students.
00:25:03.040 | Yeah.
00:25:04.040 | See their campus as a harvest field.
00:25:05.040 | Mm-hmm.
00:25:06.040 | Um.
00:25:07.040 | There are so many people who.
00:25:08.040 | Just need love.
00:25:09.040 | Yeah.
00:25:10.040 | Lonely.
00:25:11.040 | You know.
00:25:12.040 | Just.
00:25:13.040 | Full of.
00:25:14.040 | Uh.
00:25:15.040 | Stuff that they don't even like or want.
00:25:16.040 | And just.
00:25:17.040 | They just need people to love them.
00:25:18.040 | And so.
00:25:19.040 | Um.
00:25:20.040 | Once.
00:25:21.040 | You know.
00:25:22.040 | Once people kind of really catch that vision.
00:25:23.040 | Like.
00:25:24.040 | Oh.
00:25:25.040 | Yeah.
00:25:26.040 | Man.
00:25:27.040 | My campus is a harvest field.
00:25:28.040 | Um.
00:25:29.040 | It actually just kind of naturally tends to.
00:25:30.040 | Like.
00:25:31.040 | They're interested in meeting people.
00:25:32.040 | Uh.
00:25:33.040 | Even during our Bible studies.
00:25:34.040 | Oh.
00:25:35.040 | Let me.
00:25:36.040 | Let me.
00:25:37.040 | Let me.
00:25:38.040 | Let me meet that person.
00:25:39.040 | Like.
00:25:40.040 | Maybe that's someone I can.
00:25:41.040 | Kind of love and minister.
00:25:42.040 | You know.
00:25:43.040 | To.
00:25:44.040 | Or something like that.
00:25:45.040 | So.
00:25:46.040 | I actually find that that kind of.
00:25:47.040 | Really.
00:25:48.040 | Like.
00:25:49.040 | Not.
00:25:50.040 | Not.
00:25:51.040 | In order to.
00:25:52.040 | Interaction.
00:25:53.040 | In this space.
00:25:54.040 | Just with.
00:25:55.040 | My girlfriend.
00:25:56.040 | Because here's a space where I can actually.
00:25:57.040 | Like.
00:25:58.040 | Be an older brother to someone.
00:25:59.040 | And.
00:26:00.040 | Get to know someone.
00:26:01.040 | And love someone.
00:26:02.040 | You know.
00:26:03.040 | So.
00:26:03.040 | So.
00:26:04.040 | Like.
00:26:05.040 | Help with the atmosphere.
00:26:06.040 | Yeah.
00:26:07.040 | Of people caring about each other.
00:26:08.040 | In that space.
00:26:09.040 | I like that.
00:26:10.040 | Going back to what you were saying earlier about.
00:26:11.040 | See.
00:26:12.040 | You kind of.
00:26:13.040 | You leave it the ball in their court.
00:26:14.040 | Whether they want.
00:26:15.040 | I guess.
00:26:16.040 | Kind of mentorship.
00:26:17.040 | In this area.
00:26:18.040 | If they are dating.
00:26:19.040 | Some guidance.
00:26:20.040 | And some mentorship.
00:26:21.040 | What are some tips.
00:26:22.040 | That you've given them.
00:26:23.040 | Or some tools.
00:26:24.040 | What do you guys do with that.
00:26:25.040 | Yeah.
00:26:26.040 | Okay.
00:26:27.040 | Huh.
00:26:28.040 | Um.
00:26:29.040 | Dude.
00:26:30.040 | There are a couple books that I always recommend.
00:26:31.040 | I think.
00:26:32.040 | Outdated by.
00:26:33.040 | Jonathan Pucuta is good.
00:26:34.040 | It's a good one.
00:26:35.040 | Um.
00:26:36.040 | I really like the meaning of marriage.
00:26:37.040 | By Tim Keller.
00:26:38.040 | Uh.
00:26:39.040 | Cause I think it kind of.
00:26:40.040 | Brings out the goal.
00:26:41.040 | Like the goal is marriage.
00:26:42.040 | And here's the kind of marriage you want to.
00:26:43.040 | Have.
00:26:44.040 | And if that's the kind of marriage you want to have.
00:26:46.040 | Then that sort of.
00:26:47.040 | Helps you.
00:26:48.040 | Determine.
00:26:49.040 | The kind of dating.
00:26:50.040 | You want to do.
00:26:51.040 | Yeah.
00:26:52.040 | And then the kind of people you want to date.
00:26:54.040 | Um.
00:26:55.040 | And then like.
00:26:56.040 | One.
00:26:57.040 | I guess one just very practical thing.
00:26:59.040 | That I.
00:27:00.040 | I tell a lot of people is.
00:27:01.040 | One of the best ways to.
00:27:03.040 | Know someone.
00:27:04.040 | Is.
00:27:07.040 | To.
00:27:08.040 | Observe their relationships.
00:27:10.040 | Um.
00:27:11.040 | This is too strongly stated.
00:27:13.040 | And I say it this way sometimes.
00:27:14.040 | Cause it's slightly controversial.
00:27:15.040 | But.
00:27:16.040 | Dating is inherently deceptive.
00:27:17.040 | Um.
00:27:20.040 | So that's sort of a negative way of putting it.
00:27:21.040 | But the positive way of putting it.
00:27:22.040 | Is you're always going to put your best foot forward.
00:27:23.040 | Yeah.
00:27:24.040 | Which is good.
00:27:25.040 | You want to do that right.
00:27:26.040 | You're going to dress the best.
00:27:27.040 | Which you should.
00:27:28.040 | Yeah.
00:27:29.040 | If you don't normally shower.
00:27:30.040 | You're going to shower.
00:27:31.040 | You know.
00:27:32.040 | Like.
00:27:33.040 | You're going to be on your best behavior.
00:27:34.040 | And you should.
00:27:35.040 | But if that's the only thing that you see.
00:27:37.040 | You're only going to see that other person's sort of.
00:27:40.040 | Yeah.
00:27:41.040 | Best face.
00:27:42.040 | If you want to really understand who that person is.
00:27:44.040 | It's best to see them in context of other relationships.
00:27:48.040 | How.
00:27:49.040 | How are they with their friends.
00:27:50.040 | How are they with people older than them.
00:27:52.040 | How are they with people younger than them.
00:27:54.040 | Seeing all of those things.
00:27:55.040 | Actually gets you.
00:27:56.040 | A really good picture of what someone's going to be like.
00:27:58.040 | When you marry them.
00:27:59.040 | Um.
00:28:00.040 | And so.
00:28:01.040 | That's like one practical thing.
00:28:02.040 | I tell people.
00:28:03.040 | Look out for that.
00:28:04.040 | Yeah.
00:28:05.040 | That's really interesting because.
00:28:06.040 | You know.
00:28:06.040 | Dating today is.
00:28:07.040 | Seen so often as like a.
00:28:08.040 | Just one on one kind of thing.
00:28:09.040 | Or just like.
00:28:10.040 | That's just a couple.
00:28:11.040 | Kind of thing.
00:28:12.040 | And you're kind of expanding that.
00:28:13.040 | And.
00:28:14.040 | I find that kind of counter cultural too.
00:28:15.040 | So.
00:28:16.040 | Yeah.
00:28:17.040 | It talks about community so much.
00:28:18.040 | And I think it's so.
00:28:19.040 | It's so.
00:28:20.040 | Practical.
00:28:21.040 | Like.
00:28:22.040 | You need a village to raise a child.
00:28:23.040 | You know.
00:28:24.040 | Like.
00:28:25.040 | You need.
00:28:26.040 | Like.
00:28:26.040 | I don't know how we could have done.
00:28:27.040 | Marriage.
00:28:28.040 | Honestly.
00:28:29.040 | Without all of the relationships that kind of supported us.
00:28:30.040 | Oh yeah.
00:28:31.040 | If I.
00:28:32.040 | If.
00:28:33.040 | If.
00:28:34.040 | If.
00:28:35.040 | Like.
00:28:36.040 | I was the only source of.
00:28:37.040 | Like.
00:28:38.040 | Emotional support for her.
00:28:39.040 | Or vice versa.
00:28:40.040 | That's tough.
00:28:41.040 | Like.
00:28:42.040 | Who can shoulder that.
00:28:43.040 | Right.
00:28:44.040 | And so.
00:28:45.040 | You kind of need all of those relationships all together.
00:28:46.040 | Yeah.
00:28:47.040 | That's good.
00:28:48.040 | Are there any other.
00:28:49.040 | I don't know.
00:28:50.040 | Ways in which this issue has come out in your ministry.
00:28:53.040 | Just other things you try to do.
00:28:54.040 | Other than like your yearly presentation.
00:28:56.040 | Or whatever.
00:28:57.040 | That where you're trying to guard the culture.
00:28:58.040 | Or.
00:28:59.040 | Or teach.
00:29:00.040 | Right.
00:29:01.040 | Biblical values around this.
00:29:02.040 | Like.
00:29:03.040 | Is there anything else that.
00:29:04.040 | Either tell your staff.
00:29:05.040 | Or.
00:29:06.040 | Just anything.
00:29:07.040 | Anything where it kind of comes in.
00:29:08.040 | Well.
00:29:09.040 | One other.
00:29:10.040 | I guess.
00:29:11.040 | Piece of advice.
00:29:12.040 | That we generally advise.
00:29:13.040 | If they're asking for it.
00:29:14.040 | Is to.
00:29:15.040 | Um.
00:29:16.040 | We encourage them.
00:29:17.040 | To come up with guardrails.
00:29:18.040 | Around like.
00:29:19.040 | How late at night.
00:29:20.040 | Are you going to hang out.
00:29:21.040 | Um.
00:29:22.040 | Like.
00:29:23.040 | How private is the space.
00:29:24.040 | That you're going to be in together.
00:29:25.040 | And again.
00:29:26.040 | This is all with regards to.
00:29:27.040 | Kind of crossing the.
00:29:28.040 | The.
00:29:29.040 | The barrier of like.
00:29:30.040 | Um.
00:29:31.040 | Having sex before marriage.
00:29:32.040 | And that's what we're really concerned about.
00:29:33.040 | More than anything else.
00:29:34.040 | Really.
00:29:35.040 | Is purity.
00:29:36.040 | And so.
00:29:37.040 | Um.
00:29:38.040 | We will often advise them.
00:29:39.040 | To.
00:29:40.040 | Just come up with.
00:29:41.040 | What those guardrails are.
00:29:42.040 | And.
00:29:43.040 | So you set a guardrail.
00:29:44.040 | Let's say you go past that.
00:29:45.040 | That's not sin.
00:29:46.040 | That's your guardrail.
00:29:47.040 | What it's supposed to do.
00:29:48.040 | Is to prick your conscience.
00:29:49.040 | And cause you.
00:29:50.040 | To be like.
00:29:51.040 | Oh.
00:29:52.040 | Remember we agreed on something.
00:29:53.040 | Let's not let that slip.
00:29:54.040 | Yeah.
00:29:55.040 | So that it doesn't.
00:29:56.040 | It's not that slippery slope.
00:29:57.040 | That we're going to be sliding down.
00:29:58.040 | Mm-hmm.
00:29:59.040 | And.
00:30:00.040 | I think that's something that.
00:30:01.040 | Um.
00:30:02.040 | When couples have asked for.
00:30:03.040 | Mentorship.
00:30:04.040 | Through their.
00:30:05.040 | Uh.
00:30:06.040 | Courting relationship.
00:30:07.040 | Um.
00:30:08.040 | We will highly encourage.
00:30:09.040 | Having those types of things in place.
00:30:10.040 | Yeah.
00:30:11.040 | Yeah.
00:30:12.040 | Like.
00:30:13.040 | I.
00:30:14.040 | So.
00:30:15.040 | A lot of times I tell people like.
00:30:16.040 | I'm not against your dating.
00:30:17.040 | I think dating is great.
00:30:18.040 | How are you going to get married.
00:30:19.040 | Unless you date.
00:30:20.040 | Um.
00:30:21.040 | What I am for.
00:30:22.040 | Most of all though.
00:30:23.040 | Is your future marriage.
00:30:24.040 | Mm-hmm.
00:30:25.040 | Like.
00:30:26.040 | I want your future marriage to be awesome.
00:30:27.040 | Mm-hmm.
00:30:28.040 | You so much through that.
00:30:29.040 | Yeah.
00:30:30.040 | And so let's protect that as best we can.
00:30:31.040 | Yeah.
00:30:32.040 | Mm-hmm.
00:30:33.040 | And one of the most practical ways to do that.
00:30:34.040 | Is.
00:30:35.040 | To avoid sexual sin before you get married.
00:30:38.040 | Yeah.
00:30:39.040 | Um.
00:30:40.040 | So that's.
00:30:41.040 | That's sort of the principle there.
00:30:42.040 | Yeah.
00:30:43.040 | Man.
00:30:44.040 | I always.
00:30:45.040 | There's this quote.
00:30:46.040 | I think it's C.S. Lewis.
00:30:47.040 | But I haven't been able to track it down recently.
00:30:48.040 | But I remember one thing that he says.
00:30:49.040 | Is.
00:30:50.040 | Like people always talking about like missing out.
00:30:51.040 | Like I don't want to miss out.
00:30:52.040 | Right.
00:30:53.040 | Um.
00:30:54.040 | And so.
00:30:55.040 | Like that's a justification for like.
00:30:56.040 | Yeah.
00:30:57.040 | Dating around.
00:30:58.040 | Or kind of doing a lot of things.
00:30:59.040 | Mm-hmm.
00:31:00.040 | That you know.
00:31:01.040 | I don't want to miss out on that.
00:31:02.040 | And he says.
00:31:03.040 | Well you have to understand that you're making a choice.
00:31:04.040 | You're either going to miss out on one type of thing or another.
00:31:05.040 | Mm-hmm.
00:31:06.040 | Right.
00:31:07.040 | So yeah.
00:31:08.040 | If you.
00:31:09.040 | If you have premarital sex.
00:31:10.040 | And you.
00:31:11.040 | You're not going to miss out on that.
00:31:12.040 | But what you will miss out on.
00:31:13.040 | Is the experience of what it's like.
00:31:14.040 | To be faithful to just one person.
00:31:15.040 | Yeah.
00:31:16.040 | And you will never know what that's like.
00:31:17.040 | And you're giving that up.
00:31:18.040 | So I remember that being very powerful for me.
00:31:19.040 | Yeah.
00:31:20.040 | Like that really helped me as a young man.
00:31:21.040 | To kind of think to like.
00:31:22.040 | Okay.
00:31:23.040 | God knows best.
00:31:24.040 | And I don't want to miss out on his best.
00:31:25.040 | But I'll have to sacrifice that.
00:31:26.040 | If I.
00:31:27.040 | You know.
00:31:28.040 | Take these other things.
00:31:29.040 | I don't know.
00:31:30.040 | I just found that helpful.
00:31:31.040 | If you think it's C.S. Lewis.
00:31:32.040 | Sounds like the kind of thing he would say.
00:31:33.040 | But.
00:31:34.040 | I don't remember the source.
00:31:35.040 | Yeah.
00:31:36.040 | Yeah.
00:31:37.040 | Um.
00:31:38.040 | One question I have is like.
00:31:39.040 | What's.
00:31:40.040 | What's.
00:31:41.040 | Do you ever get pushback?
00:31:42.040 | Do you ever.
00:31:43.040 | Like what are some questions people ask.
00:31:44.040 | You know.
00:31:45.040 | Or like.
00:31:46.040 | You know.
00:31:47.040 | Yeah.
00:31:48.040 | Just ways people responded.
00:31:49.040 | Yeah.
00:31:50.040 | Just.
00:31:51.040 | On that.
00:31:52.040 | Cause it just sounds so reasonable.
00:31:53.040 | You know.
00:31:54.040 | Stuff like that.
00:31:55.040 | And I.
00:31:56.040 | I mean.
00:31:57.040 | I agree with everything you say.
00:31:58.040 | But.
00:31:59.040 | You know.
00:32:00.040 | Yeah.
00:32:01.040 | Yeah.
00:32:02.040 | Yeah.
00:32:03.040 | Well.
00:32:04.040 | Um.
00:32:05.040 | I think.
00:32:06.040 | Well.
00:32:07.040 | This is actually something that's happening more and more.
00:32:08.040 | Regularly.
00:32:09.040 | More than it used to.
00:32:10.040 | But.
00:32:11.040 | A lot of people don't even.
00:32:12.040 | Necessarily agree that.
00:32:13.040 | A Christian shouldn't date.
00:32:14.040 | A non-Christian.
00:32:15.040 | Which I think is.
00:32:16.040 | I don't know.
00:32:17.040 | Fairly clear.
00:32:18.040 | From scripture.
00:32:19.040 | Yeah.
00:32:20.040 | So.
00:32:21.040 | Cause you know.
00:32:22.040 | Again.
00:32:23.040 | The goal is to get married.
00:32:24.040 | Right.
00:32:25.040 | So you don't want to get.
00:32:26.040 | Um.
00:32:27.040 | So.
00:32:28.040 | So.
00:32:29.040 | So.
00:32:30.040 | Um.
00:32:31.040 | Who are you to.
00:32:34.040 | Say anything about my life.
00:32:36.040 | Mm-hmm.
00:32:37.040 | And.
00:32:38.040 | And I.
00:32:39.040 | And I get that.
00:32:40.040 | I.
00:32:41.040 | It's.
00:32:42.040 | It's not.
00:32:43.040 | It's never easy to invite.
00:32:45.040 | Someone into your life.
00:32:46.040 | Especially if there's.
00:32:47.040 | I mean.
00:32:48.040 | What.
00:32:49.040 | What is a more powerful force than attraction?
00:32:51.040 | Mm-hmm.
00:32:52.040 | That is so powerful.
00:32:53.040 | So.
00:32:54.040 | You know.
00:32:55.040 | What like.
00:32:56.040 | The number one.
00:32:57.040 | Biggest.
00:32:58.040 | Like.
00:32:59.040 | Concern for college students.
00:33:00.040 | Is.
00:33:01.040 | Probably dating.
00:33:02.040 | What's number two?
00:33:03.040 | It's probably dating.
00:33:04.040 | And then it's like maybe your GPA.
00:33:05.040 | Right.
00:33:06.040 | So.
00:33:07.040 | So.
00:33:08.040 | I get that too.
00:33:09.040 | So.
00:33:10.040 | You know.
00:33:11.040 | Again.
00:33:12.040 | Um.
00:33:13.040 | You know.
00:33:14.040 | For.
00:33:15.040 | For me.
00:33:16.040 | It's always permission based.
00:33:17.040 | Mm-hmm.
00:33:18.040 | Um.
00:33:19.040 | Yeah.
00:33:20.040 | Yeah.
00:33:21.040 | More often than not.
00:33:22.040 | I don't know that I've ever like.
00:33:23.040 | Been.
00:33:24.040 | Like.
00:33:25.040 | Oh.
00:33:26.040 | You're wrong.
00:33:27.040 | Like.
00:33:28.040 | I don't know that I've ever gotten that kind of response.
00:33:29.040 | It's more like.
00:33:30.040 | You know what.
00:33:31.040 | What you're saying is totally true.
00:33:32.040 | But we're different.
00:33:33.040 | That's actually generally.
00:33:34.040 | Yeah.
00:33:35.040 | Like.
00:33:36.040 | We're different.
00:33:37.040 | And so then like.
00:33:38.040 | At that point.
00:33:39.040 | Like.
00:33:40.040 | I have to say.
00:33:41.040 | You know.
00:33:42.040 | I've been doing this a long time.
00:33:43.040 | And.
00:33:44.040 | It's possible.
00:33:45.040 | It's possible.
00:33:46.040 | That you're different.
00:33:47.040 | You know.
00:33:48.040 | That I've been doing this a long time.
00:33:49.040 | And.
00:33:50.040 | It's been a rare.
00:33:51.040 | If.
00:33:52.040 | I don't know if I've ever known a situation.
00:33:53.040 | Where.
00:33:54.040 | People have not crossed those boundaries.
00:33:55.040 | And regretted it.
00:33:56.040 | Um.
00:33:57.040 | But.
00:33:58.040 | But.
00:33:59.040 | Yeah.
00:34:00.040 | Like.
00:34:01.040 | It's more along those lines.
00:34:02.040 | They fully agree with our logic.
00:34:03.040 | But then it's more like.
00:34:04.040 | Oh.
00:34:05.040 | But I'm the exception.
00:34:06.040 | Is often the.
00:34:07.040 | I see.
00:34:08.040 | That's interesting.
00:34:09.040 | Um.
00:34:10.040 | I imagine that.
00:34:11.040 | With today.
00:34:12.040 | You know.
00:34:13.040 | Like.
00:34:14.040 | Broken families.
00:34:15.040 | And stuff.
00:34:16.040 | I feel like.
00:34:17.040 | Uh.
00:34:18.040 | Like.
00:34:19.040 | Vision of marriage.
00:34:20.040 | So you talked about like.
00:34:21.040 | Uh.
00:34:22.040 | Meaning of marriage.
00:34:23.040 | Timothy.
00:34:24.040 | Talking about the goal.
00:34:25.040 | And trying to lift up that biblical vision.
00:34:26.040 | Of what marriage can be.
00:34:27.040 | Do you find yourself like.
00:34:28.040 | Doing that.
00:34:29.040 | Or having to do that.
00:34:30.040 | Just.
00:34:31.040 | Just cause I feel like.
00:34:32.040 | I mean a lot of college students.
00:34:33.040 | Who just.
00:34:34.040 | They don't have a good vision of marriage.
00:34:35.040 | Estrange from their.
00:34:36.040 | Whatever.
00:34:37.040 | And it's just like.
00:34:38.040 | My.
00:34:39.040 | My marriage might be the first one they ever seen.
00:34:40.040 | That's actually intact.
00:34:41.040 | I mean actually.
00:34:42.040 | Like.
00:34:43.040 | When they come to my house for dinner.
00:34:44.040 | That might be the first family dinner they ever had.
00:34:45.040 | You know.
00:34:46.040 | So like.
00:34:47.040 | What.
00:34:48.040 | What.
00:34:49.040 | You know.
00:34:50.040 | Do you guys experience the same thing.
00:34:51.040 | And what do you do with that.
00:34:52.040 | Like.
00:34:53.040 | Are.
00:34:54.040 | Are.
00:34:55.040 | Pictures of what a.
00:34:56.040 | Dating relationship should look like.
00:34:57.040 | It's like 90% from the media.
00:34:58.040 | Right.
00:34:59.040 | So.
00:35:00.040 | And.
00:35:01.040 | Yeah.
00:35:02.040 | And like.
00:35:03.040 | How many.
00:35:04.040 | How many movies.
00:35:05.040 | Or.
00:35:06.040 | TV shows.
00:35:07.040 | Do you know of.
00:35:08.040 | That.
00:35:09.040 | Portrays.
00:35:10.040 | A.
00:35:11.040 | Long-term.
00:35:12.040 | Loving.
00:35:13.040 | Marriage.
00:35:14.040 | It's actually pretty rare.
00:35:15.040 | Most of the romances are like.
00:35:17.040 | They're not married yet.
00:35:18.040 | And it's.
00:35:19.040 | Very.
00:35:20.040 | Physically based.
00:35:21.040 | And that's the only.
00:35:23.040 | Vision that the world has.
00:35:25.040 | And so.
00:35:26.040 | Again.
00:35:26.040 | It totally makes sense that.
00:35:27.040 | Like.
00:35:28.040 | That's sort of the cash.
00:35:29.040 | That's.
00:35:30.040 | That's what people have in their.
00:35:31.040 | In their minds.
00:35:32.040 | So.
00:35:33.040 | Yeah.
00:35:34.040 | I do think that.
00:35:35.040 | Like.
00:35:36.040 | Yeah.
00:35:37.040 | God's ways are better.
00:35:38.040 | He's not trying to say no.
00:35:39.040 | He's trying to say there is something better.
00:35:40.040 | So.
00:35:41.040 | Kind of.
00:35:42.040 | Building that out.
00:35:43.040 | And showing that.
00:35:44.040 | You know.
00:35:45.040 | It's hard though.
00:35:46.040 | It's hard.
00:35:47.040 | Because.
00:35:48.040 | You know.
00:35:49.040 | And again.
00:35:50.040 | Yeah.
00:35:51.040 | I'm gonna.
00:35:52.040 | I'm gonna.
00:35:53.040 | Forgo some of this stuff.
00:35:54.040 | So that I can have that.
00:35:55.040 | Like.
00:35:56.040 | That's a difficult.
00:35:57.040 | Decision.
00:35:58.040 | Yeah.
00:35:59.040 | All the more.
00:36:00.040 | Than.
00:36:01.040 | You know.
00:36:02.040 | For those who want to be a faithful.
00:36:03.040 | Christian witness.
00:36:04.040 | You know.
00:36:05.040 | Another reason.
00:36:06.040 | To try to pursue it the right way.
00:36:07.040 | Yeah.
00:36:08.040 | It's knowing that.
00:36:09.040 | Generational.
00:36:10.040 | It's been.
00:36:11.040 | Really cool to hear from you guys.
00:36:12.040 | I feel like.
00:36:13.040 | I learned a lot.
00:36:14.040 | Yeah.
00:36:15.040 | I learned some good stuff.
00:36:16.040 | From you guys.
00:36:17.040 | So.
00:36:18.040 | Thank you guys so much.
00:36:19.040 | For stopping by.
00:36:20.040 | And.
00:36:21.040 | Sharing with us.
00:36:22.040 | Your experience.
00:36:23.040 | And your wisdom.
00:36:24.040 | Yeah.
00:36:25.040 | So if you want more of this stuff.
00:36:26.040 | And you want to see.
00:36:27.040 | Yeah.
00:36:28.040 | Like.
00:36:29.040 | Subscribe.
00:36:30.040 | And see you next episode.
00:36:31.040 | Yeah.
00:36:32.040 | Thanks for joining us.
00:36:33.040 | Thank you guys.