All-In Summit: In conversation with Gwyneth Paltrow

00:00:00.000 | Our next guest needs no introduction.

00:00:04.640 | She has an incredible career in film.

00:00:09.640 | She's an entrepreneur, she's a podcaster.

00:00:12.200 | But interestingly learned about a year and a half ago

00:00:16.680 | that our friend Gwyneth Paltrow

00:00:19.080 | is also a fan of the All In podcast.

00:00:21.480 | (laughing)

00:00:22.440 | So welcome Gwyneth Paltrow.

00:00:25.200 | (upbeat music)

00:00:27.780 | ♪ All in ♪

00:00:29.360 | ♪ Let your winners ride ♪

00:00:31.980 | ♪ Rain Man David Sackman ♪

00:00:34.440 | ♪ I'm going all in ♪

00:00:36.360 | ♪ And it said ♪

00:00:37.200 | ♪ We open sourced it to the fans ♪

00:00:38.540 | ♪ And they've just gone crazy with it ♪

00:00:40.180 | ♪ Love you guys ♪

00:00:41.020 | ♪ I'm queen of Kinwans ♪

00:00:42.540 | ♪ I'm going all in ♪

00:00:44.380 | - Are you trolling me with my glasses?

00:00:46.900 | Do you have your blue lights on?

00:00:48.460 | - I can't, I honestly can't see

00:00:50.740 | without these things at this point, so forgive me.

00:00:53.580 | - I'm just curious, thanks for zooming in here.

00:00:57.620 | When did you become aware of the podcast?

00:00:59.620 | 'Cause you said you listen to two podcasts,

00:01:01.220 | you have your own amazing podcast.

00:01:02.860 | How did you discover the All In podcast?

00:01:05.180 | 'Cause you wrote about us so graciously

00:01:07.100 | in the Goop newsletter and said it's your latest obsession.

00:01:09.880 | Then you shouted us out on another podcast.

00:01:12.340 | So I get like a hundred,

00:01:14.300 | we all get like a hundred inbounds when you do that.

00:01:16.900 | But how did you find out about our podcast?

00:01:19.060 | - We just recommended it to a nearby friend.

00:01:23.260 | And I just, you know, there's so many people

00:01:25.820 | who's really proud of it, but I thought, okay,

00:01:27.500 | this is interesting.

00:01:29.100 | And I put it on and honestly, you guys are the only thing

00:01:32.860 | I listen to religiously every single week.

00:01:35.260 | I love all of you.

00:01:36.660 | You open my mind, you challenge my thinking,

00:01:39.100 | and I learn so much from all of you.

00:01:42.100 | So I just, I appreciate what you guys do

00:01:45.260 | and I really feel very honored that you have me on.

00:01:50.260 | You know, my husband, the little bonus contention

00:01:53.260 | is he thinks I'm in love with David Satch.

00:01:55.860 | But people don't even do it, so it's okay.

00:01:58.900 | - But you're breaking up a little bit,

00:02:00.100 | but I think I heard in there that--

00:02:02.060 | - She hates David Satch.

00:02:02.900 | - She hates David Satch, is that correct?

00:02:05.700 | That you just--

00:02:06.540 | - I heard that I was the favorite bestie, but--

00:02:09.140 | - So you're traveling right now.

00:02:11.300 | You don't have Starlink on your plane?

00:02:13.200 | - I'm flying on American.

00:02:16.420 | Shamoff did not lend me his plane for this.

00:02:18.700 | I can't regret it.

00:02:20.200 | (laughing)

00:02:21.180 | - We'll make sure we're correct.

00:02:22.340 | We brought the summit to you this year,

00:02:24.220 | but you couldn't make it in person.

00:02:26.060 | I wanted to ask you, of all the things you've done,

00:02:29.620 | you had this incredible career in Hollywood,

00:02:32.140 | which really spanned from the independent film era

00:02:34.660 | all the way to the blockbuster superhero era.

00:02:37.140 | Obviously, Goop and the tremendous success there

00:02:40.940 | and podcasting.

00:02:42.460 | What have you enjoyed most?

00:02:43.900 | And then, I'm wondering, I know you get harangued

00:02:46.660 | by all the Marvel fans to play Pepper Potts again,

00:02:49.420 | but it's not exactly your decision.

00:02:52.080 | What have you enjoyed most in your career?

00:02:54.940 | - I have to say, I genuinely have enjoyed

00:02:59.280 | all of the chapters.

00:03:01.480 | I've been incredibly fortunate in that I've had this

00:03:04.240 | amazingly diverse life.

00:03:06.040 | I've been an expat in London for a decade.

00:03:08.400 | And it's been really, it's been just thrilling

00:03:13.440 | to be able to do that and then kind of segue

00:03:15.640 | into a life of entrepreneurship.

00:03:17.520 | And I would be hard-pressed to pick a favorite.

00:03:20.320 | - Yeah.

00:03:21.720 | - How did you make that decision, Gwyneth?

00:03:23.920 | We talked with Alexandra Botez before this.

00:03:27.000 | She's gotten a lot of notoriety and built an audience

00:03:31.320 | streaming chess, chess matches.

00:03:34.440 | And now she's building her own business,

00:03:36.200 | and we're gonna talk to Jimmy Donaldson,

00:03:37.520 | Mr. Beast, here in a minute.

00:03:38.920 | And he's similarly building his own business

00:03:40.840 | with his audience.

00:03:42.440 | How did you make the decision to build Goop,

00:03:44.720 | to build a business with your audience

00:03:46.280 | instead of endorse other businesses

00:03:48.880 | and get paid to put your stamp on other products

00:03:51.280 | that were already in market and help us think about

00:03:53.920 | the intention on being an entrepreneur and an owner

00:03:56.560 | instead of being an endorser and a service provider?

00:04:00.040 | - I mean, I think that in my position,

00:04:05.840 | we're expected to kind of be an endorser

00:04:07.760 | and put our name on something more white label.

00:04:11.040 | In my case, maybe it was naivete.

00:04:12.920 | Like I just really wanted to try to build something

00:04:15.520 | brick by brick and have that incredible

00:04:19.720 | hockey stick education.

00:04:21.720 | And the business happened very iteratively.

00:04:25.040 | It really just started with me kind of writing content

00:04:27.240 | in my kitchen in London almost 15 years ago,

00:04:30.320 | which is kind of hard to believe.

00:04:32.440 | And the business models, there've been a few of them.

00:04:34.800 | They've slowly evolved over time.

00:04:36.480 | You know, we started monetizing content

00:04:39.040 | and then moved into product and then making our own product.

00:04:44.080 | And I think it's sort of what I didn't like

00:04:46.160 | so much about acting was the part where you're kind of

00:04:48.440 | waiting around, waiting for permission to engage,

00:04:52.440 | to create something, to put something out in the world.

00:04:54.480 | And this is far more immediate.

00:04:56.960 | And I love my acting career, but I find this like

00:05:00.640 | incredibly fulfilling in a much different way.

00:05:03.280 | - Yeah, maybe you could talk a little bit.

00:05:06.160 | I know I listened to your pod and I've been watching

00:05:08.960 | your intellectual curiosity.

00:05:10.440 | It seems like aging and kind of living our best lives

00:05:14.040 | in our fifties and Gen X is kind of moving

00:05:16.360 | into this new era.

00:05:17.640 | I'm curious what you think about this having multiple

00:05:21.520 | careers and moving into this new era of life

00:05:24.200 | and living your best life in your fifties and your sixties.

00:05:27.840 | People are staying healthier longer skiing into their

00:05:30.240 | sixties and seventies.

00:05:31.080 | I don't want to bring up too much skiing.

00:05:32.320 | I know that was a bit of a distraction this year for you.

00:05:35.360 | Congratulations on the case.

00:05:42.120 | I mean, the best part of it was when you walked out

00:05:45.360 | of the case and you put your head on his shoulder,

00:05:47.040 | you said, I just wish you well or something.

00:05:49.080 | You were very kind and magnanimous, but maybe talk

00:05:52.240 | about just how great it is to be able to just keep

00:05:55.480 | having this healthy lifestyle and what you're doing

00:05:57.880 | on the pod, because I'm watching you intellectually

00:06:01.240 | go from shorter to longer to longer and more in depth

00:06:05.120 | conversations.

00:06:06.320 | - Thanks, J. Cal.

00:06:11.560 | You know, I...

00:06:13.560 | - That's her way of saying you're full of shit.

00:06:15.640 | - You know, I think what I've watched over the span

00:06:25.640 | of this kind of 15, kind of general curiosity in wellness

00:06:30.640 | and this idea that we can impact the way that we feel.

00:06:35.480 | I think, you know, we were a little bit early

00:06:37.840 | on the early side in the trends

00:06:40.840 | and I really am so happy to see people understanding

00:06:45.640 | that how they think and how they breathe

00:06:48.200 | and what they eat really impacts how they feel,

00:06:50.440 | the quality of their relationships and everything.

00:06:52.680 | And I think it's, it only intensifies in your fifties,

00:06:57.600 | I think, when you start to understand that life really

00:06:59.880 | is finite and in a way that you don't,

00:07:03.000 | you can't conceptualize that when you're 26 years old.

00:07:05.560 | And so I'm glad that I feel bullish about aging,

00:07:10.720 | you know, I definitely want to do whatever interventions

00:07:14.480 | I can to feel good and happy and live a long life.

00:07:18.160 | I love my kids so much.

00:07:19.920 | I wanna live a long time and meet their kids.

00:07:22.120 | And I think the pod, the Goop pod is just a way for me

00:07:27.000 | to learn more about kind of what's out there.

00:07:29.920 | And we talked to amazing doctors and experts

00:07:33.120 | and scientists and thinkers.

00:07:35.040 | And so for me, it's just a wonderful opportunity to learn.

00:07:38.800 | And that's why I said in the beginning,

00:07:40.200 | I don't know if it cut out,

00:07:41.040 | but that's why I listened to your pod

00:07:43.360 | religiously every week.

00:07:44.480 | It's the only one that I listen to every week

00:07:47.320 | because of the depth of knowledge.

00:07:49.760 | And you guys, I think, are bringing this amazing

00:07:52.880 | kind of open-minded perspective.

00:07:55.840 | And that's why I think you're so resonant

00:07:57.600 | with your listeners.

00:07:58.960 | - You probably read then,

00:08:02.480 | you heard us talk a lot about Brian Armstrong's memo.

00:08:05.720 | You probably heard us mention Toby Lutke,

00:08:08.080 | the CEO of Shopify, his memo.

00:08:10.360 | Now both are sort of in one end of the spectrum,

00:08:13.000 | which is we're a team, we're not a family,

00:08:16.360 | keep your views to yourself, essentially.

00:08:19.360 | And we're coming here to work,

00:08:21.720 | but there's a spectrum of different ways.

00:08:23.360 | Can you just describe where you are on that spectrum

00:08:25.880 | and some challenges or things that you've had to go through

00:08:28.960 | in building this business,

00:08:30.680 | relative to how those guys would have run their companies?

00:08:33.800 | - Yeah, I mean, I think that's been kind of

00:08:37.200 | the most unexpected challenge is the people piece,

00:08:41.000 | the team building piece,

00:08:42.520 | knowing how once you're at a certain scale,

00:08:45.920 | and you're not a CEO interacting

00:08:47.560 | with every single member of the team every day,

00:08:49.280 | how difficult it is to define a culture,

00:08:52.840 | be agile about the changes in the culture.

00:08:55.320 | And I think for us, I think it's hard, right?

00:08:59.480 | Like I'm a woman founder, our team is probably 70% women.

00:09:04.480 | Women, archetypally, we're collaborative, we are creative.

00:09:09.480 | And I think that it's very hard to,

00:09:13.600 | for us anyway, at Groupton,

00:09:15.320 | it would be impossible for there to be this kind of

00:09:18.280 | strict team mentality only.

00:09:21.920 | I think we do bring our hearts to what we do.

00:09:24.360 | There's meaning at what we're trying to create.

00:09:26.720 | But then again, there are boundaries

00:09:31.960 | that need to be created.

00:09:32.920 | And honestly, I think when I look back

00:09:35.360 | at all the mistakes that I've made in growing this company,

00:09:38.520 | all of them stem from my wanting to be a family,

00:09:44.400 | set a different way,

00:09:46.400 | my inability to sometimes say what needed to be said

00:09:49.680 | in order to spare somebody's feelings.

00:09:51.720 | And so there's a lot of personal work for me

00:09:55.240 | in that spectrum.

00:09:56.960 | And I think that I'm sort of starting to really get the hang

00:10:00.600 | of how to do that and do it in my own way.

00:10:02.800 | But I kind of had to give myself permission

00:10:05.400 | to navigate through it and sort of define

00:10:08.200 | how I want to operate like that as a leader.

00:10:10.920 | - And I suppose being a celebrity

00:10:15.160 | is an adjustment for people working for you.

00:10:18.440 | I'm curious how that transition was.

00:10:21.040 | And can people be normal around you at work?

00:10:23.920 | And how do you navigate that?

00:10:24.760 | - Yeah, do they tell you the truth?

00:10:26.120 | - Yeah.

00:10:26.960 | - I mean, it just must be hard at first, no?

00:10:29.760 | - I think it is hard.

00:10:31.880 | I think people come in and I've been in the culture

00:10:35.800 | for better or worse for a really long time now.

00:10:38.080 | So I think everybody kind of has something

00:10:40.160 | they're coming in with, a prejudice or a projection.

00:10:45.160 | And I also just am famous.

00:10:47.760 | So sometimes that's kind of,

00:10:49.840 | it feels like a filter that lives between me

00:10:51.920 | and other people.

00:10:53.560 | I think the best people at Goop,

00:10:55.360 | you can feel like they drop that really quickly.

00:10:58.960 | And we work best and make the best stuff

00:11:02.320 | and grow in the best way when people say no

00:11:05.600 | and people challenge me.

00:11:07.600 | - Is Hollywood challenged in being able to speak its mind?

00:11:12.240 | Hollywood from the outside seems to have

00:11:15.080 | a very kind of monocultural point of view

00:11:17.920 | and you're very quickly canceled if you say the wrong thing

00:11:20.920 | or you say something that's on your mind

00:11:22.360 | that doesn't fit with the standard.

00:11:24.720 | And is that something that you view

00:11:26.040 | to be kind of an inherent challenge in Hollywood today?

00:11:29.840 | - You know, it's interesting.

00:11:31.920 | Like I think that,

00:11:35.520 | I think cancel culture is really toxic

00:11:39.000 | and really stems from, you know,

00:11:42.520 | I mean, I have a whole long theory about this,

00:11:44.720 | but I do feel like in our culture,

00:11:49.720 | there's a very binary way we look at good and bad.

00:11:53.240 | And I think we put a lot of pressure on ourselves

00:11:55.600 | and we are not good at understanding

00:11:57.840 | that we are human, we are all light and dark.

00:12:01.840 | And at various times we have great qualities,

00:12:04.000 | we have qualities we're working on.

00:12:06.640 | And I think what happens is

00:12:08.880 | because we don't live in a culture

00:12:10.160 | where we're allowed to sort of show our shadow sides,

00:12:14.160 | when somebody else does something that, you know,

00:12:18.640 | we can quickly have Schadenfreude over,

00:12:20.640 | we sort of jump on it because it feels like a release.

00:12:23.240 | You know, it feels like a relief, like,

00:12:24.600 | oh, well, at least I didn't do X.

00:12:26.640 | Like this guy.

00:12:27.920 | And I don't think it gets us very far as a culture.

00:12:31.560 | I think it's actually really reductive.

00:12:34.200 | And I'm hoping that we're gonna kind of mature

00:12:37.440 | out of this binary cancel culture way of looking at things.

00:12:42.120 | You know, I personally don't think about it

00:12:45.520 | because I would never open my mouth.

00:12:47.680 | Like I have to be myself.

00:12:49.840 | And of course you wanna be measured

00:12:52.440 | and you don't wanna unnecessarily, you know,

00:12:55.040 | get yourself in trouble or say something stupid.

00:12:56.880 | But at the same time, I think it's important

00:12:58.360 | to be true to who you are, be in integrity,

00:13:00.640 | say what you mean.

00:13:01.800 | And sometimes, you know,

00:13:03.520 | you see that that creates controversy,

00:13:05.560 | but I don't think that that's always a bad thing.

00:13:08.520 | - What is the future of Hollywood?

00:13:10.960 | I feel like I was thinking about your career

00:13:13.320 | 'cause I was reviewing all the amazing films

00:13:15.480 | you were in in the '90s.

00:13:16.640 | And then obviously I mentioned, you know,

00:13:19.000 | the last run of the superhero films.

00:13:21.600 | It feels like you're a part of the last generation

00:13:24.480 | of movie stars and Freeberg and Sax and I

00:13:27.520 | are huge cinema buffs and fans of what you do.

00:13:30.760 | Maybe you could talk about--

00:13:32.880 | - I've watched your movies.

00:13:34.560 | - Chemop, he like popped, Chemop texted me like,

00:13:37.400 | "Hey, what should I watch tonight?"

00:13:38.640 | And I give him-- - Wrong.

00:13:39.840 | - Well, no, I tell you to watch something really great

00:13:42.720 | and you're like, "That was terrible."

00:13:44.120 | And I'm like, "Well, okay,

00:13:45.080 | "it's got seven Oscar nominations, I'm sorry."

00:13:46.760 | - Let's not say the name.

00:13:47.760 | - I'm not gonna say it. - It's hard.

00:13:48.600 | - We bleeped it.

00:13:49.440 | - Yeah. - Anyway.

00:13:50.880 | - Terrible movie.

00:13:51.720 | - Yes.

00:13:52.560 | - She wasn't in it.

00:13:53.400 | If she was in it, it'd be better.

00:13:54.840 | (audience laughing)

00:13:56.000 | - There I said it.

00:13:56.840 | - Tar was a great film.

00:13:57.680 | - Speaking of great film. - It was incredible.

00:13:59.480 | Did you see Tar, Gwyneth?

00:14:00.840 | Did you see Tar?

00:14:02.800 | - No, I have not.

00:14:03.640 | I have not, I've only heard Chemop's review.

00:14:05.680 | - Thank you.

00:14:06.520 | (audience laughing)

00:14:07.360 | - Oh, so you decided not to see it.

00:14:08.400 | But to the point, it seems like--

00:14:09.720 | - You are setting the agenda for Hollywood now, Chemop.

00:14:12.240 | - So what have we lost now with this,

00:14:16.800 | kind of the end of cinema?

00:14:18.440 | It's kind of heartbreaking for me

00:14:19.760 | and I wonder if it's heartbreaking for you too.

00:14:22.600 | And maybe then you could speak on the strike

00:14:24.400 | and maybe how that might get resolved.

00:14:26.680 | I know you're out of it pretty much,

00:14:28.040 | but maybe you could talk a little bit about the end of--

00:14:30.800 | - Yeah, what should the unions be fighting for?

00:14:32.840 | I mean, you're on the other side in a sense.

00:14:34.840 | You're running a tech company.

00:14:36.320 | You're probably figuring out how to use AI

00:14:38.600 | and all of these disruptive tools.

00:14:41.040 | Your old compatriots must need a lot of help and guidance

00:14:44.160 | to not fight for the wrong things.

00:14:46.360 | So yeah, how do you think about the future of Hollywood?

00:14:48.560 | Like how would you direct them like,

00:14:50.160 | "Hey guys, this matters

00:14:51.840 | "and this other stuff just doesn't matter."

00:14:54.440 | - Yeah, I mean, I think we're at an incredible inflection

00:14:57.520 | point and to start with your question, J. Cal,

00:15:02.520 | the inherent models of the business have changed so much

00:15:06.000 | as we know with streaming.

00:15:07.600 | I do think that it brings up really interesting questions

00:15:13.120 | around like, what does this mean for artists going forward?

00:15:17.000 | The business isn't monetized the way that it used to be.

00:15:19.960 | Residuals used to be a huge part

00:15:22.640 | of how artists made their living.

00:15:24.560 | And I do think that this is an area

00:15:26.400 | where the studios kind of need to readdress

00:15:30.040 | how they have been paying in the backend,

00:15:33.000 | especially on TV.

00:15:34.880 | But we are living in a time

00:15:36.600 | where there are these emerging technologies

00:15:38.280 | that just are going to change the way that things are made.

00:15:41.760 | And so I think, look, as you said, I'm kind of out of it.

00:15:45.680 | I don't act very much anymore.

00:15:49.520 | I am married to a television writer

00:15:52.320 | who knows far more about the ins and outs of this.

00:15:55.040 | But I do think there are,

00:15:59.960 | I think artists do need to understand that,

00:16:02.440 | it's like with anything, when an industry led by,

00:16:04.960 | first these technology, streaming, and now AI

00:16:13.760 | and these things that are coming around the corner,

00:16:15.040 | I think we all need to be open-minded

00:16:19.560 | and understand that the train has left the station.

00:16:23.440 | These technologies exist.

00:16:24.880 | So we're gonna have to find

00:16:26.520 | the best way forward through them.

00:16:28.560 | - What is your point of view?

00:16:30.160 | What is the conversation behind closed doors

00:16:32.280 | on generative art, generative film, where we're headed?

00:16:35.200 | Not the public conversation,

00:16:36.760 | but the behind doors dinner conversation

00:16:38.360 | with your colleagues and friends.

00:16:40.640 | - I think people that are really concerned,

00:16:42.440 | my actor friends are very concerned about the idea that,

00:16:45.240 | for example, I'll just use myself,

00:16:47.800 | that they could decide to make "The Royal Tenenbaums 2."

00:16:52.800 | And because I don't own my IP, Disney owns that IP

00:16:57.320 | and my name and likeness for that film,

00:16:58.920 | that they could just theoretically create a sequel

00:17:02.040 | and not ask my permission

00:17:03.640 | and that I wouldn't have to be paid for it.

00:17:07.680 | So that's kind of what the actors, where they go.

00:17:10.760 | For example, I invested in a company called Speechify

00:17:13.840 | where they use AI.

00:17:15.600 | You can, I don't know if you guys know the company.

00:17:17.160 | - I use it and you can read "The New York Times."

00:17:20.200 | You're one of the official voices on Speechify.

00:17:22.520 | - So, I read a bunch of stuff into a microphone

00:17:27.160 | and then AI took my voice.

00:17:28.600 | And now if you wanna read Walter Isaacson's new book

00:17:32.400 | on Elon, which I know David Sacks

00:17:34.160 | is gonna be the first person in line to buy that book.

00:17:36.920 | You can listen to it with my voice.

00:17:40.280 | So in that case, I said, I'm licensing it to you

00:17:44.120 | and here are the parameters.

00:17:45.240 | But I think the idea is going forward,

00:17:47.520 | if that wasn't the case, it could be a free for all.

00:17:52.520 | That's kind of what, that's what the actors are worried

00:17:55.680 | about.

00:17:56.520 | I think the writers that I speak to,

00:18:00.080 | they seem to be less worried about the AI piece right now

00:18:05.680 | because it's so nascent and obviously it's mining things

00:18:07.520 | that have already been written.

00:18:09.080 | And I think art that resonates with people comes

00:18:13.840 | from new ideas and new ways of creating resonant

00:18:18.840 | intersections for people.

00:18:20.560 | And I think we're always gonna need people for that.

00:18:23.200 | I mean, maybe I'm naive, but that's,

00:18:25.240 | so I don't think, I don't find writers behind closed doors

00:18:28.320 | as concerned about the AI piece

00:18:29.800 | as I do the actors right now.

00:18:31.880 | - That makes sense.

00:18:32.720 | We have a friend here who's a showrunner,

00:18:35.480 | is a television writer.

00:18:36.520 | He may be in the audience here somewhere.

00:18:38.320 | I think that's his attitude as well,

00:18:39.640 | which is like, I don't really wanna be on strike

00:18:41.840 | and I don't need to be protected from AI

00:18:46.000 | that's kind of like protecting me from a word processor

00:18:48.320 | or something like that.

00:18:49.920 | I mean, I think these AI tools are gonna be really useful

00:18:52.160 | to writers.

00:18:53.000 | It's gonna be kind of crazy to say that writers can't use

00:18:57.000 | generative AI tools in their research or writing

00:18:59.720 | or whatever.

00:19:00.560 | I agree with you about the actors.

00:19:01.840 | That's different.

00:19:02.880 | I think actors should be able to control their name

00:19:05.200 | and likeness and make licensing deals for that,

00:19:07.840 | that kind of stuff.

00:19:09.000 | But I think, but I do think there's like a little bit

00:19:11.240 | of paranoia going on with the Writers Guild.

00:19:14.520 | I think they're way too concerned that writers rooms

00:19:17.920 | are gonna get replaced with AI software.

00:19:20.520 | And I just think, this is a debate we have

00:19:22.760 | in other occupations as well,

00:19:24.280 | where people are really afraid that AI's just gonna replace

00:19:27.840 | all the jobs.

00:19:28.680 | And I think our view is, at least for the foreseeable future

00:19:32.040 | is gonna be more like co-pilots,

00:19:33.840 | where it's a human working with the software,

00:19:35.840 | not a total replacement of the human.

00:19:38.360 | - Yeah.

00:19:40.960 | I think that's right.

00:19:42.320 | - Can I ask you about unions for a second?

00:19:45.360 | So part of revitalizing maybe the movie industry,

00:19:49.160 | but a lot of these industries is just that sometimes

00:19:52.680 | the costs of making these things just get really

00:19:55.300 | outrageously high, right?

00:19:56.800 | And you've probably lived on sets of movies

00:19:59.160 | where it's just like these cost overruns

00:20:00.920 | and then you get into this tricky accounting

00:20:03.000 | and then all of a sudden one producer is suing the other.

00:20:05.280 | All of this stuff, at some level just boils down

00:20:08.280 | to there's just massive cost inflation that exists

00:20:12.440 | that probably shouldn't exist.

00:20:14.200 | Nine people doing a job that one person, et cetera.

00:20:17.320 | Just talk to us about what is the future

00:20:19.640 | of that kind of stuff?

00:20:20.800 | Like how do you provide opportunity?

00:20:24.560 | How do you protect folks?

00:20:26.200 | But then how do you make sure that the costs

00:20:28.640 | don't become so exorbitant that it just kills the industry

00:20:30.980 | without you noticing?

00:20:32.040 | - I think it's a really good question.

00:20:36.080 | I think you have to look at who profits

00:20:38.920 | from all of the inefficiencies.

00:20:40.680 | And it's one of the reasons that I feel so frustrated

00:20:45.680 | when I'm on set is because it is inefficient

00:20:50.080 | and it does feel like there's a lot of padding.

00:20:52.440 | But again, the systems that exist have been in place

00:20:58.520 | for a really long time.

00:21:03.120 | I don't really wanna opine on the state of unions per se.

00:21:08.120 | I think I would focus more on,

00:21:13.920 | like if I was running a store with efficiencies

00:21:16.640 | and I would rather create profit for shareholders

00:21:21.640 | from creating efficiencies and like dealing

00:21:23.640 | with all of the essentially off backs

00:21:26.400 | that it takes to make something like that.

00:21:28.000 | And less about not wanting to share profits

00:21:31.880 | with the artists.

00:21:33.560 | - As somebody who did movies in this incredible golden era,

00:21:38.480 | Sundance era, independent film,

00:21:40.440 | all these incredible new directors

00:21:42.160 | who you got to work with.

00:21:43.680 | And then this golden era of television arrived

00:21:46.080 | over the last four or five years,

00:21:47.360 | which is I'm sure you've enjoyed.

00:21:50.040 | And I know your husband's participated in that meaningfully.

00:21:53.840 | You must have gotten tons and tons of offers

00:21:57.600 | 'cause they keep trying to get movie stars to do TV shows.

00:22:01.240 | Did you ever consider any of them?

00:22:02.560 | Are there any you passed on that we could hear about?

00:22:05.560 | What would it take to get you to do one of those TV shows?

00:22:10.040 | Like what have you passed on?

00:22:11.440 | I'm always interested in that.

00:22:12.940 | - My mother says, who's also a great actress,

00:22:16.400 | she says, "I'm never allowed to say anything

00:22:19.120 | "about what I passed on."

00:22:20.760 | She says, "It's not ladylike and I can't do it in public."

00:22:23.440 | So I have to defer to Blair and Danner.

00:22:26.200 | - Not even one, okay.

00:22:27.740 | (audience applauding)

00:22:30.120 | What would it take to, and have you considered it?

00:22:32.400 | Like it does seem like--

00:22:33.240 | - How about moderating?

00:22:34.360 | Have you ever moderated?

00:22:35.520 | (audience laughing)

00:22:39.040 | - We could use a new moderator here.

00:22:39.880 | - Just gonna throw it out there.

00:22:40.700 | - We'll be a panel of new moderators soon.

00:22:42.160 | - Yeah.

00:22:43.000 | - Can I ask you--

00:22:43.840 | - I assume meeting like in the next two hours

00:22:45.800 | when this thing is done.

00:22:47.360 | - Can I ask you your point of view

00:22:48.560 | on the rules that the Academy passed

00:22:50.780 | for qualifying for Best Picture?

00:22:53.260 | Obviously they added all these diversity rules

00:22:55.960 | this past year.

00:22:56.880 | I think they were formalized this past year.

00:22:59.240 | And we heard from Larry Summers earlier today.

00:23:01.160 | I know it's a pity you weren't here

00:23:03.320 | 'cause there was a lot of great conversations.

00:23:05.720 | But Larry said something along the lines of

00:23:09.080 | self-esteem should come from achievement,

00:23:12.320 | not achievement coming, or I don't wanna butcher it.

00:23:15.820 | But basically we have a challenge right now

00:23:18.840 | that we aren't really earning the credit we get.

00:23:22.340 | And we risk seeing the best things not always win.

00:23:26.600 | Does the best film not win?

00:23:28.440 | If there's a lot of new qualifying criteria

00:23:31.100 | that might keep the best film out of the Best Picture

00:23:34.640 | nomination because it doesn't fit these new diversity rules,

00:23:37.960 | how do you view that?

00:23:38.800 | How does Hollywood behind closed doors talk about this?

00:23:41.800 | And is this the right way to kind of

00:23:43.600 | give the awards for the Best Pictures every year?

00:23:47.240 | - You know, Kratenberg, I honestly don't even know.

00:23:52.320 | Like I feel so out of this business.

00:23:53.840 | I don't even know about these new diversity rules.

00:23:57.240 | - Well to get nominated you have to be--

00:23:58.480 | - Let me come back to you.

00:23:59.320 | Can I educate myself and come back to you?

00:24:00.720 | - Yeah, that's the whole point of the podcast.

00:24:02.400 | - All good.

00:24:03.240 | - Well when you moderate these next episodes

00:24:04.920 | you'll be a better--

00:24:05.760 | - So I'm looking forward to it.

00:24:07.120 | I need a break.

00:24:07.960 | - I have a question which is, back to Goop for a second.

00:24:10.160 | So you're building distribution.

00:24:11.760 | This is like this theme this afternoon a little bit.

00:24:14.920 | With Alex, with you, with Jimmy who we're gonna talk about

00:24:17.640 | which is these new content creators emerge.

00:24:20.400 | You guys create formats that engage an audience.

00:24:23.220 | What they really give you is their trust.

00:24:24.840 | You build these new distribution rails.

00:24:27.080 | And then you decide, Gwyneth,

00:24:28.360 | where do you wanna point those distribution?

00:24:29.960 | Is it chocolate bars in Jimmy's case?

00:24:31.640 | Is it merch and chess related things for Alex?

00:24:34.940 | I'm sure that you and your team are looking at

00:24:38.760 | what are these areas that are just so brittle

00:24:41.060 | that can just be totally ripped apart?

00:24:43.420 | Where new brand consideration can happen.

00:24:45.400 | You can establish the trust.

00:24:47.200 | Can you just give us some insight into that?

00:24:49.240 | What are the old laggard businesses

00:24:51.220 | that are just ready to get dismantled?

00:24:53.120 | - That's a really good question.

00:24:55.720 | You know, I honestly don't think about

00:24:57.960 | going into new products in that way.

00:25:00.160 | Like I kind of do it more from the inside out.

00:25:02.940 | Like where is the (audio cuts out)

00:25:05.940 | - Uh-oh. - Uh-oh.

00:25:13.720 | - Uh-oh.

00:25:14.560 | - Zoom.

00:25:16.160 | I mean, it's held up pretty well so far.

00:25:19.640 | All right, with that, we'll thank.

00:25:24.720 | (audience laughs)

00:25:26.120 | - Gwyneth Paltrow.

00:25:27.720 | Amazing, well done.

00:25:29.180 | I mean, it's kind of great

00:25:32.520 | that she is so engaged with the pod.

00:25:36.240 | - Well, I'll tell you, her comment about waiting around

00:25:41.420 | on a film set really resonated with me.

00:25:43.120 | I've produced a couple of movies.

00:25:44.120 | I've been to movie sets.

00:25:45.400 | - Dolly and Thank You for Smoking, congratulations.

00:25:47.840 | - And if you talk to anybody who's ever visited a movie set,

00:25:50.560 | the first thing they will say every time is,

00:25:53.840 | there's so much waiting around.

00:25:55.120 | It's like, it's boring.

00:25:56.320 | It's a lot more boring than they thought it was gonna be.

00:25:58.640 | And there's a huge amount of time waiting around on sets

00:26:01.400 | for the next setup.

00:26:03.640 | They have to move the lights around or whatever.

00:26:05.640 | So I'll tell you, with Dolly, the Dolly movie we did,

00:26:10.160 | they would do like an eight to 10 hour shooting day.

00:26:12.400 | I would get the dailies,

00:26:14.040 | which is all the material they shot in a link.

00:26:16.840 | It's basically like a Dropbox folder.

00:26:18.660 | Everything they shot was two hours.

00:26:20.560 | So you take a 10 hour shooting day,

00:26:22.080 | you're only shooting for two hours of that.

00:26:24.560 | And then that two hours is maybe

00:26:27.160 | two or three pages of material.

00:26:29.040 | - So two or three minutes.

00:26:30.480 | - You're watching five takes of every angle or whatever.

00:26:33.380 | So there is a huge amount of just sort of boredom on a set.

00:26:37.280 | So I think it's really cool that she,

00:26:40.640 | while thinking about this, is like,

00:26:41.760 | hey, I could start a company.

00:26:43.400 | And I think you're going through one of the first

00:26:45.960 | to do this, like 15 years ago.

00:26:47.880 | - Yeah, I mean, she came before anybody

00:26:49.880 | and I think she had a lot of iteration along the way.

00:26:54.880 | (upbeat music)

00:26:58.900 | (upbeat music)

00:27:02.400 | (upbeat music)

00:27:04.980 | (upbeat music)

00:27:07.560 | (upbeat music)

00:27:10.140 | (upbeat music)

00:27:13.560 | (upbeat music)

00:27:16.140 | (upbeat music)

00:27:18.720 | (upbeat music)

00:27:22.500 | (upbeat music)

00:27:33.080 | (upbeat music)

00:27:45.180 | (upbeat music)

00:27:47.760 | (upbeat music)

00:27:50.340 | (upbeat music)

00:27:52.920 | I'm doing all of it

00:27:54.920 | (music)

All-In Summit: In conversation with Gwyneth Paltrow

Chapters