In conversation with Mark Cuban

00:00:00.040 | all right everybody welcome to the number one podcast in the world here we are on the all in

00:00:04.960 | podcast we have a fifth bestie with us today joining david freeber chamath piha patia david

00:00:11.280 | sachs and myself is the one and the only mark cuban how you doing buddy what's up guys i'm

00:00:16.160 | doing great thanks for having me on of course of course thank you i've been practicing my virtue

00:00:21.600 | signaling so i'm ready all right let's go i think we're gonna have twice the virtue signaling as

00:00:27.440 | normal on this episode double the virtue i don't virtue signal i'll say you to anybody

00:00:37.440 | you have gotten very vocal about politics during this cycle

00:00:55.760 | and you seem to be i don't know if it's official you know speaking on behalf of the kamala ticket so

00:01:03.120 | why why are you this active what is the um reason that you've decided to get this active during this

00:01:09.760 | election because i'm proud to be an american that's exactly why i mean you know we all make choices and

00:01:18.080 | think what's best for the country and show our patriotism in different ways and you know i'm not

00:01:22.160 | a democrat i'm not a republican i'm an independent through and through oh my god like jacal he's an

00:01:26.880 | independent too there we go and why is it that all the democrats are afraid to call themselves democrats

00:01:33.520 | well look i've said this many many times if if it wasn't donald trump running it was a non-maga candidate

00:01:39.440 | particularly if it was joe biden still i'd vote republican i voted republican before if it was a non-maga

00:01:44.720 | candidate versus kamala harris it would be you know let's look at the policies let's look at the

00:01:49.440 | character of the people involved and let's make a decision it's it's just donald trump is not a

00:01:53.600 | republican republicans are donald trump you know the republican party is now the family business for

00:01:59.520 | donald trump and to me i just think kamala harris is a better choice for the country

00:02:03.680 | on a percentage basis how often have you voted just a level set democrat versus republican would you say

00:02:09.920 | out of 10 elections presidential probably i voted for george w twice then i voted for um obama twice

00:02:18.640 | and then i voted for um clinton and biden but before that i voted for um ross perot jr my first vote was

00:02:26.160 | for a guy named um something john anderson so i mean i literally worked on ross perot jr's campaign way back

00:02:33.360 | when tell us about that that's fascinating he got 19 of the vote as an independent candidate

00:02:39.600 | yeah i was living out in la and this was 92 and this is when computers were relatively new i sold my

00:02:45.840 | company and i was taking acting classes and just living by manhattan beach and just loving life and

00:02:51.760 | you know being from texas i knew people there and they were like look we need somebody who understands pcs

00:02:56.480 | and computers and software can you help us and i was like definitely um i mean i wasn't to the point

00:03:01.840 | where i was involved in his decisions but i actually hadn't met him um my first company was a company

00:03:08.080 | called microsolutions where we did systems integrations local and wide area network i wrote software for

00:03:13.360 | you know single multi-user app wide area network apps and we literally helped pro systems um get into

00:03:20.320 | local and wide area networking and so you know one of my favorite stories from back then is you know i'm

00:03:25.920 | terrified i'm a 26 year old kid i'm in dallas i'm going into pro systems i get to meet ross perot

00:03:31.440 | senior the man right and i'm walking through him and he's got the original the the model for the

00:03:36.720 | um no he had the original magna carta one of like the 13 magna cartas and he had the original um

00:03:43.120 | model for the iwo jima um statue right with the flag up and everything and i'm just terrified i'm

00:03:49.040 | going to trip and just wipe out american history and i walk up to him and i said hi mr cuban

00:03:59.840 | you know reverse that yeah you know i was so nervous um and he like made fun of it and you

00:04:05.920 | know got to be friends and did a lot of business helped those guys a lot i made them a lot of money

00:04:10.160 | they made me a lot of money did you have any more interactions with them when you were on the campaign

00:04:14.240 | did you get a sense of no i did not no i was just a little plebe just trying to do a little plebe stuff

00:04:19.360 | in la i didn't know that you took acting classes that's interesting did you want to be an actor or

00:04:23.600 | before a businessman or what no no no this was after i sold micro solutions i bought a lifetime

00:04:28.240 | pass on american airlines moved to la got a place right in manhattan beach um right on the beach get

00:04:33.840 | two flight attendants as roommates and i was just loving life and i was like how else can i meet women

00:04:39.920 | i'm going to take acting classes and it was like one of the best things i've one of the best things

00:04:44.720 | i've ever done because you know being a business guy you it's always right brain right brain right brain

00:04:49.760 | and acting is like don't think just be don't think just be just let it go so it was a totally

00:04:54.720 | different experience and that's why you see me do all these cameos and stuff um because i like to do

00:04:59.200 | it because it's the one place where you just have to completely let go and it's a completely different

00:05:03.680 | approach to life so you know little backstory yeah yeah you got a good character arc on entourage i think

00:05:09.680 | that was probably the best one seven episodes plus the movie yeah yeah yeah yeah that was uh pretty

00:05:14.560 | memorable so uh sax lead us off here i don't know if you've been following mark cuban on

00:05:20.320 | social media at all or if you guys interact i can't resist asking so is your um is your acting as a

00:05:27.360 | surrogate for kamala is that acting too or absolutely not hey oh wow we may go live we may go low we go hi

00:05:35.520 | no no obviously i truly believe in it and look it's always relative it's always relative to the other

00:05:41.520 | candidate um and so obviously as you guys know i'm not a big fan of donald trump i gave him a shot

00:05:47.440 | eight years ago it didn't work out okay wait wait could we can we get into this because i you obviously

00:05:51.840 | have like a love-hate relationship with trump going back 20 something years so let's just go through the

00:05:58.160 | the um the timeline here i'm just very curious i don't hate the guy at all if he was running for

00:06:03.040 | president and we all got together and you know just shot the like we are now he's a blast he's fun to

00:06:09.200 | talk to you know he's got charisma he's got personality he's easy to like i mean you know

00:06:14.480 | he's used to schmoozing he's he's one of the world's best schmoozers and so he's easy to get along with

00:06:19.920 | it's not personal but that doesn't mean like you guys with each other it doesn't mean you can't you

00:06:25.040 | know as different things happen over time you can't go back and forth and you know he did the same thing

00:06:30.320 | so the whole history of it was back um right when um we went public at broadcast.com no right after

00:06:38.160 | we announced the sale in 2000 um was it 2000 yeah after we announced the sale in january 2000

00:06:45.920 | he threw a super bowl party at mar-a-lago and one of my buddies um who um knew him invited me and i was

00:06:54.880 | like cool i'll go mar-a-lago hadn't seen it donald trump maybe i'll meet him and so you know you guys

00:07:01.120 | have seen mar-a-lago in a beautiful pool beautiful view there's a brand up there and he had like a

00:07:07.120 | bunch of um hooters and um what's the suntan lotion that always had girls whatever oh tropicana

00:07:15.040 | tropic no yeah but sun tropics one of those right yeah and so they were all dressed in orange and they were

00:07:21.360 | walking around and it was just like a big deal and it was funny as hell and so not that that's

00:07:26.400 | a bad thing it was actually kind of entertaining and um so he comes up to me and i'm with the um

00:07:32.720 | vp of visa my buddy and jerry yang i think it was maybe it wasn't jerry but um co-founder of yahoo

00:07:40.000 | yeah co-founder of yahoo and um he was like hey guys nice to meet you and i'm like hey i'm mark donald

00:07:46.640 | da da da and he just you know not to be mean just in a flipping way he was like hey someday you'll be

00:07:52.480 | able to sit up there with the rich people pointing to the veranda and walked away and i'm like okay

00:07:58.320 | fine you know whatever and so um then um not long after that through my friend he got back in touch with

00:08:05.440 | me and you know this is the early days of the internet early 2000s and um still i guess to still

00:08:12.080 | 2000 and um i get an invitation to go to um his office in trump towers and i'm like this is cool of

00:08:19.840 | course and you know he wants to talk to me about business and i'm like you know what donald i'll help

00:08:24.400 | you all i can he you know he's getting donald trump.com and he wants to sell tchotchkes and merchandise i

00:08:30.640 | guess some things never change um and so you know so i'm in there trying to tell him about what you

00:08:36.080 | can and can't sell online and what works and that was all fine and good met avanka it was all really

00:08:40.800 | cool but the one thing that left with me if you've ever been or seen pictures of his office every inch

00:08:46.320 | of his office is covered with pictures of him every single inch of the office like meeting celebrities

00:08:54.240 | right stuff like that yeah yeah or you know whatever um covers he was on and just whatever

00:08:59.040 | right and i just remember walking through there and afterwards you know it was it was a nice meeting

00:09:03.920 | and we had some follow-up calls and everything but it never went anywhere in terms of the online stuff

00:09:08.320 | but i just remember thinking to myself if i ever become you know visible or famous you know to that

00:09:14.160 | level don't let me get so caught up in just having pictures of myself and you know i'd had conversations

00:09:20.240 | with my buddies about it just like you know you guys would and so then in 2004 um i got a chance to

00:09:28.720 | do a show called the benefactor abc called me and said okay wait let's show this we have this uh this

00:09:33.920 | was got tweeted so so so this is after we got canceled you did oppo research sex you got oppo research

00:09:40.000 | this is all on twitter every this is all on on x people try to with me on on twitter they throw this

00:09:45.840 | so so anyway so when i got the gig um he was like congratulations good luck and everything i was like

00:09:52.240 | thank you and whatever and then when i got canceled he sent me that letter basically saying you suck

00:09:57.120 | and so well he was he was dancing on the graveyard show but so you're saying you didn't have beef

00:10:02.560 | with him before that letter no it was not a beef no yeah it was not a beef but it was just like

00:10:07.600 | that's what it was and so it was just like okay whatever and um okay but then when he ran in 2016

00:10:15.200 | you were supportive can we show that let's show that there's more in between there's a lot more

00:10:20.080 | in between okay okay so that's 2004 2007 um eric reaches out to me and goes hey there's no hard

00:10:27.440 | feelings with my dad or anything i'm like no i don't care he goes we're working with um these russian

00:10:32.880 | mma fighters this guy named fedor emilyenko who was like one of the best ever at that point in time

00:10:38.320 | and josh barrett and kind of the irony of all this is we were competing with dana dana white and the ufc

00:10:44.560 | in some respects because a lot of fighters felt like they weren't getting paid enough there was no health

00:10:49.360 | care there was no nothing right and so i had a tv network we had started the first all high definition

00:10:54.720 | tv network called hd net back in 2000 back when tvs cost twenty thousand dollars and everybody

00:11:00.640 | thought we were idiots but slowly but surely it was taking off and so they came to me and said we'd like

00:11:06.000 | to put um we're partnering with these guys who are putting on this mma fight um with fedor and josh

00:11:12.320 | barrett and some other folks and we'd like to broadcast it on on hd net because we had a show called um this

00:11:18.800 | week in mma so we were promoting we had fights that we were already putting on every friday night

00:11:23.760 | so it actually was a good fit so you'll see pictures of me sitting with them and actually

00:11:28.080 | and i couldn't find it i was so pissed because i was going to with him some more um what he said in

00:11:32.720 | the end what you know during the time we were sitting at that podium was everything mark cuban

00:11:37.040 | touches turns to gold and so i was like that would have been so great to have out there and so and

00:11:43.120 | anyway so we were friends again and so it's 2007 and we're friends and nothing happens between then

00:11:48.960 | until whenever he started going crazy on twitter and um all the obama stuff and everything and the

00:11:55.440 | birth certificate and the birth birth birth stuff so he's on twitter and he started with me

00:12:01.600 | like saying that so let me just preface this by saying i golfed once in my life in 1989 and i hated

00:12:09.200 | it so bad i was throwing clubs because i'm one of those really super competitive guys i'm like

00:12:13.040 | never again but i went and worked um i auctioned off myself to be a caddy at a golf tournament that

00:12:19.600 | he also was at but he starts tweeting that i saw mark cuban and he swings like your girl and this and

00:12:24.880 | that his swing is like your girl like nobody saw me swing because i don't golf and so i started back

00:12:31.280 | with him and so we went back and forth on twitter for years for years and then he comes down the um

00:12:37.680 | escalator in 2015 and i'm like all right this guy's got no chance to win um but i think it's

00:12:44.240 | great because i don't like traditional politicians i'm not you know there's nothing about me that

00:12:49.520 | thinks that the way we do politics or the way the government is run is a good thing not at all i mean

00:12:55.600 | i my heart is libertarian but i realize you can't libertarians are not problem solvers or ideologues

00:13:01.520 | you know like you look at rand paul everything's only one way he doesn't try to solve problems so

00:13:06.080 | anyways um i digress so he comes down i'm like that's cool right he doesn't have a chance to win

00:13:11.600 | but um i'm like he's the best thing ever you know you know how you know i forget where i was but i was

00:13:16.400 | like he's the best thing that ever happened to politics he's not a politician he's not going to be

00:13:20.560 | a stepford candidate i may not agree with his positions but you know just the fact that he's

00:13:25.440 | not a politician is a good thing and so from there he called me and we talked a lot probably 10 to 15

00:13:32.240 | times on the phone he would call me you know and he tweeted one time mark cuban was trying to come i

00:13:36.960 | never had a number there was no way for me to call him right he would you know and you know the way he

00:13:41.680 | emails he refuses to send an email because he doesn't want any proof of anything he's done right and so

00:13:48.480 | you know he would write it up like you had one of those pictures so bring up the one on

00:13:51.920 | the cnn where he says what happened so right there cnn nasty what happened see see what he does there

00:13:56.640 | his email he writes on a piece of paper and then someone scans it and sends it as an image via email

00:14:02.480 | and so what happened just so the audience can understand so the the email is from you to him

00:14:08.160 | saying tell the boss i said congrats on his sweep and then and then his assistant printed it out and then

00:14:13.840 | wrote back to you and like this is one of many emails that we went back and forth on this

00:14:18.240 | door but just to be just as a weird point he literally prints out his emails writes on them

00:14:25.280 | has them scanned in and sent as an image to you mark wow saw you on cnn nasty what how did he send

00:14:31.840 | this to you he mailed this to you or what he mailed it in image he doesn't use email i mean

00:14:35.920 | the guy no no his assistant emailed it back right as so he writes on the piece system prints it out he

00:14:41.680 | reads it hilarious he writes on it she scans it she scans the it sends the image to me officially the big

00:14:46.880 | question there but you can't just let that slide why do you think he does that is this a different

00:14:51.280 | generation no at least that's my interpretation no absolutely not nope i'm with mark he don't want

00:14:56.640 | paper trails or anything because he's doing so much shady stuff man guys i think you're reaching there

00:15:01.440 | obviously there's a paper trail if he writes if he writes on a piece of paper if i write right now on a

00:15:07.840 | post-it note scan and email to you there's a paper trail no no you can't search for it and it's not

00:15:13.840 | his you know yes to your point he's saying i'm just telling you he won't send emails at all he doesn't

00:15:20.160 | want his assistant created an electronic record what's the difference you have to ask him on that

00:15:25.040 | but he said it's a generational thing this is my interpretation i think it's a generation out loud

00:15:29.040 | david he has literally said it out loud that he doesn't want a paper trail but anyway so let's go

00:15:33.040 | back so so now we're talking back and forth and we're having legit conversations i remember asking

00:15:38.000 | him you know you realize as president you're going to have to make decisions where people can die

00:15:42.000 | and he really wouldn't respond yeah i get it i get it i'm like donald you don't have a ground game

00:15:47.520 | what are you going to do how are you going to get through this beat him yeah i got the evangelicals

00:15:51.040 | doing all that i'm not worried about it i'm like donald you know and we would i would bring up

00:15:55.520 | things about there was this one thing where um the fbi used to use this device to break into an iphone

00:16:04.400 | and there was a big thing about you know privacy and i tried to engage him on a conversation on it

00:16:10.800 | and it's just like i don't know i you know just didn't want to talk about that at all and that would

00:16:16.080 | that would happen multiple times where i would try to engage in conversations about

00:16:20.800 | some some type of policy and they're just it never got anywhere and there was never a conversation

00:16:26.800 | and i said to him i'm saying there's another email where i said donald at some point you have to learn

00:16:31.600 | these things you literally have to learn these things in order to be president and he didn't

00:16:35.760 | respond to that and that's when i went on cnn and i said basically look i like the guy but he's not

00:16:41.680 | learning he doesn't make any effort to learn anything and i think that carries on to this day

00:16:46.320 | because you can't look at things he says and say that's really an in-depth response or that's

00:16:50.960 | a nuanced response and so that's what i said on cnn and that led to the um image that you you guys

00:16:57.680 | posted so that was the falling out that was the falling out yeah or maybe but it wasn't a complete

00:17:03.600 | fall just to finish this up you want me to continue so it's not a complete falling out because okay after

00:17:07.760 | that he gets elected i sent him a congratulatory message um and i say congrats you know um you know

00:17:14.160 | if i can ever help i'm happy to and so when they were starting to look at replacing the aca i was

00:17:21.760 | starting to get into health care and being excited about health care and so they invited me to the

00:17:26.720 | white house and i spoke to jared i spoke to this woman named brooke rollins i think her name is um and i

00:17:32.080 | i spoke to a whole group of people i went to cms and i spoke to the head of the agency i spoke to the

00:17:37.760 | head of cms all talking about this thing i created called the 10 plan which is a means tested ability

00:17:43.520 | to support anyways um and so they brought me back in and then when the pandemic hit i sent him some

00:17:49.360 | ideas on you know backstopping um bank accounts and credit card accounts so everybody doesn't just

00:17:56.400 | default and he had minutian call me and then when they had with the pandemic he connected with peter

00:18:01.840 | navarro and i worked with him and actually found a company here in it actually outside of fort worth

00:18:07.680 | that um i put together with them and i helped that company increase their output and peter navarro

00:18:13.280 | worked with them closely and we you know really made a dent in all the ppe issues and you know he

00:18:18.560 | invited me to the white house and then i went to the white house one time went into the oval office

00:18:22.640 | and there's pictures of me talking and again i tried to explain the health care stuff he just

00:18:27.360 | wasn't having any type of in-depth conversation he wanted to tell me about how much money he saved on

00:18:32.160 | um on from boeing you know how many billions and this and that and then it was a short conversation

00:18:37.280 | and then i was leaving he goes look are you still on that show and he goes i'm like yeah shark tank he

00:18:42.240 | goes yeah that's baron's favorite show and then as i'm leaving further he goes wait a minute

00:18:45.840 | i really like that suit so you know and and you know he's called me since um now since he left the

00:18:52.320 | white house but you know in the you know later in his tenure at the white house and invited me to dinner

00:18:57.520 | i mean and so it's not like we left as foes and it's not like i don't like him i just don't think

00:19:03.600 | he's the best person to be president i don't think he was a good one let's just stress test that what

00:19:08.800 | how would you think about the four years that he was president in hindsight what what would you say

00:19:14.400 | was done well what would you say was done poorly just those two things i think the way he dealt with

00:19:23.040 | the zeitgeist isn't the right word just the vibe of the country was really really really bad i think

00:19:32.160 | the hate that he conveyed i think the fact that what he tweeted negatively you know so companies didn't

00:19:38.240 | know what was coming next you know he tweeted negatively about me he can tweeted negatively

00:19:43.360 | about other people i thought that was a real bad thing when the blm um protests happened and turned

00:19:49.120 | into riots when they went into minnesota he was like when the looting when the looting starts the

00:19:54.800 | shooting starts who says that as a president and so we had more people die during riots during his term

00:20:02.560 | than than biden by a long shot and i think he misrepresented where he stood in terms

00:20:07.680 | of being anti-war if you go back to 2019 um and look at the war in yemen um there were hundreds at least

00:20:15.920 | 100 000 people plus died and there was a bipartisan resolution to say we're not selling any more to the

00:20:22.640 | saudis we're not selling any more weapons to the saudis and a bipartisan resolution including mark meadows

00:20:28.560 | and rand paul and others said you know passed it and it went to his desk and he said we're still going to

00:20:34.960 | sell these um munitions and this um these weapons to saudi arabia even though these people continue

00:20:41.600 | to die so when we talk about it's you know it's not all that much different than ukraine and in some

00:20:46.560 | respects only saudi arabia got the glengarry leads and ukraine got our old stuff and we replaced it and

00:20:53.200 | so when he comes out now and says look you know i'm against all wars there were no wars that's bull

00:20:59.840 | right the mainstream media and i know well okay so there's two things there so just just on the 2020

00:21:06.160 | riots i don't know how you blame trump for the blm riots of summer of 2020. i didn't blame him for the

00:21:11.360 | riots what i said was how he dealt with it okay i get you don't like the mean tweets i get i totally

00:21:16.160 | got me no don't diminish it david don't diminish it as just mean tweets people pay attention what

00:21:21.280 | happens and when you are have people whose lives i think i think it's far worse to actually have

00:21:26.080 | riots going on in the streets that's what needed to be controlled how many people wanted to hold on he

00:21:30.720 | wanted to send in the national guard to minnesota it was actually waltz who rejected the national guard

00:21:35.520 | he had no problem and there were plenty of ties between on there were plenty of ties between

00:21:39.840 | democratic activists and the blm organizers of those riots time magazine did my story on that

00:21:46.160 | i'm not saying he's at fault that the riots happened i understand but i can't believe that

00:21:50.080 | you're using the the riots throughout the summer of 2020 as an argument against trump when it was the

00:21:54.160 | left no i think what he's saying is the leadership that he shows is of low moral character

00:21:58.240 | did he do anything right mark well i'm not done with the wrong stuff okay but wait there's more right

00:22:05.840 | let's go back to the the foreign policy for a second trump is correct that he did not start any

00:22:10.720 | new wars during his presidency you agree with that right um that no new war started or he didn't

00:22:18.080 | start any um he didn't start any he was like the first president in 20 years not to start a new war

00:22:23.440 | well he inherited some for sure and inherited syria and afghanistan and he wanted to get out and the

00:22:28.560 | generals didn't let him and there wasn't really a war that happened in turkey and then when we got

00:22:33.040 | shut down um he didn't no there wasn't really a war i'll agree with that he did that's his argument

00:22:39.040 | is that he did not start any new wars has biden started eddie well i would argue that biden provoked

00:22:45.120 | the proxy war in ukraine yes i mean you can disagree whether he provoked or not but there's no question

00:22:49.760 | the u.s has been deeply involved in a war with russia in ukraine and i'm saying what i'm saying is

00:22:55.360 | the corollary that the analogy to that is what happened in yemen and that we had a chance to get out of

00:23:00.560 | yemen and reduce the deaths in yemen much like they're talking about getting us out of the out

00:23:04.960 | of ukraine now and we had the opportunity to stop selling um weapons but he looked the best i could

00:23:11.600 | tell he looked at it as a sales opportunity to sell to mbs all these weapons and he thought that was a

00:23:17.200 | positive so a lot of people died and we're still in there today so it's not he had a chance to get us out

00:23:23.040 | and he did not so i'm not arguing that he's perfect and biden's perfect and it's tit for tat it just is

00:23:29.600 | what it is i'm just saying state making this statement of fact you know and that's it yeah

00:23:34.320 | okay well look we did we did support we did support the saudis in their war with with with yemen so wait

00:23:39.280 | let me give you the one last thing and then we'll yeah keep going so then i'll go to some positives so

00:23:43.600 | the the next thing you can actually trace that yemen war i can't say you actually i'm i'm a little bit

00:23:51.120 | hyperbole but i can trace that from that yemen war to the start of inflation and here's how i explain that

00:23:57.840 | and so in yemen he did a deal with for his boy in saudi arabia and sent them all the weapons in

00:24:04.560 | 2019 fast forward one year and you're in may uh no april let's say of 2020 and you're looking at the

00:24:16.160 | price of gas the lowest it's ever been the price of oil just collapsing at one point people were paying

00:24:22.240 | you to take their oil and so there was an opportunity he made a decision because there

00:24:27.760 | was a situation that came up the oil companies came in and said this price of oil being so low is killing

00:24:34.880 | us right we're losing a lot of money we anticipate losing more because with the pandemic now starting

00:24:41.360 | demand is dropping like a rock and so he and that was coming from the oil companies and so what he did

00:24:48.720 | he said he said okay mbs owes me a favor over in saudi arabia that's the connection and putin's my boy

00:24:55.920 | i'm going to go to them and ask them to reduce production now what happens to the price of gas

00:25:04.080 | when the largest producers of um largest producers of oil and energy decrease their production the price

00:25:14.400 | starts going up and up and up and so you can track the increase in the price of gas and how that

00:25:20.560 | impacted the price of goods the entire time that the production from the 10 reduction until they

00:25:28.560 | increase it like 300 000 barrels a day for two years what is your argument here you're saying that somehow

00:25:34.240 | trump caused the inflation yes and i'm explaining to you i'm getting the mainstream media first of all by

00:25:39.680 | the way the the war in yemen started on march 26 2015 according to chat gpt which is under obama

00:25:45.680 | no so that started under obama that's fine but he had a chance he was asked to end it by congress

00:25:51.040 | he was that he we were sending he was selling 660 billion dollar i don't know the number i can't remember

00:25:57.680 | exactly in weapons to saudi arabia and he there was how did the fact that we had nine percent inflation in

00:26:04.720 | 2022 so two years after trump lose office how in the world is trump responsible for that and

00:26:10.640 | not biden harris so glad you asked that because the mainstream media never talks about this stuff

00:26:15.360 | and so she had a little dig there so trump goes in and says we're going to cut the production by 10 percent

00:26:23.360 | demand is still relatively low but you know in april may june as people start venturing outside their

00:26:31.120 | house until the end of 2020 the end of his term that there's an increase in demand but the increase in

00:26:37.280 | demand the increase in production doesn't match the increase in demand they limited as part of this deal

00:26:43.440 | that trump put together between um russia and um saudi arabia and um that led to other people in opec plus

00:26:52.320 | participating they only increased the production of oil by 300 000 barrels a day which didn't

00:27:00.400 | keep up with the amount of demand that was happening that started increasing the price of gas that price

00:27:07.840 | of gas continued to increase for the two years this program was in place this program wasn't like let's

00:27:14.320 | just cut it for 60 days and go back at it it wasn't let's just do this for 90 days let's just do this

00:27:19.360 | during the trump administration no no no no no this deal went before they got it took two years before

00:27:25.360 | they got back to pre-pandemic levels of production and so listen to what trump says about drill baby

00:27:31.760 | drill why does he say drill baby drill will lead to lower costs because oil and energy costs are part of

00:27:39.200 | everything and you know what matches up perfectly what matches up perfectly is that 9.1 percent in 2022

00:27:47.200 | and the day that that agreement ended where mbs and russia limited production that agreement ended it

00:27:56.960 | like this if you did your little venn diagram that like and increase production decrease production bam

00:28:04.720 | that is the answer to your question so just to summarize what you the argument that you don't

00:28:08.800 | like about him is you got to know him like many people do you worked with him on projects and like

00:28:14.240 | pence bar matthias tillerson bill barr and mike cohen and the mooch omorosa you realized this person

00:28:23.600 | is out for themselves they don't care about the people they work with and you fell out of friendship

00:28:28.400 | with him or whatever there's a long list of people who don't who work with him who think he's an idiot

00:28:33.200 | and don't like him now you're on that list yeah i mean i don't think he's an idiot i'm not saying

00:28:37.600 | that's my position i'm just summarizing it look i don't think it's your position no i haven't worked

00:28:43.280 | with one of the greatest sales people ever he's one of the greatest you know um motivators in terms of

00:28:49.280 | crowd motivation ever but can i just want to be jr he's roy cone jr that is who he is if you read books

00:28:57.600 | about roy cohen everything roy cohen says to do tracing back to the mccarthy hearings in 54

00:29:03.440 | everything roy cohen says to do that is exactly what donald trump does let me i just want to i

00:29:08.640 | just want to paint this thing and then i'd like to hear the glass half full version to the extent you

00:29:13.440 | have one but basically i just i just want to understand so my understanding was in 2020 what

00:29:19.840 | happened was not that saudi arabia and russia were cooperating to cut prices but they got into a fight

00:29:26.480 | because it wasn't really it wasn't really saudi but it was opec which includes us yeah versus russia

00:29:34.320 | and we initiated against them which they counteracted a price war they didn't get they

00:29:41.600 | initiated against so saudi arabia initiated against russia but what but what i'm so what i'm trying to

00:29:47.040 | understand is there's a war in yemen right we don't stop the armaments of saudi and i guess what you're

00:29:55.360 | saying is that then triggered an opec no no what i'm saying is mbs owed trump one

00:30:04.400 | mbs owed trump one so mbs starts the price war with russia one year later and the oil companies come to

00:30:14.720 | donald and say look we're getting destroyed demand is dropping they've increased because of this price war

00:30:20.560 | between um saudi arabia and russia saudi arabia decides to take it to putin and increases their

00:30:26.720 | production significantly so in order to keep their revenues up russia's got to do the same thing

00:30:32.000 | meanwhile all the all the demand is dropping because of the pandemic and so donald gets asked by the

00:30:40.240 | insurance company the um oil companies to go to mbs and to putin and say we need to stop this price war we

00:30:48.960 | need to reduce production and to his credit if you think that's a positive to trump's credit

00:30:54.800 | he did it and so by reducing production over a plan of two years and you can go look at the production

00:31:02.240 | numbers right and when that stopped by doing that that increased the price of gas the price of oil the

00:31:08.720 | price of energy and that was bad for american consumers who utilize gas you you know paid pay for gas for their cars

00:31:15.760 | cars really bad for him but he decided to work with his oil company buddies and protect them you can say

00:31:22.640 | that's a good decision or bad decision maybe it's strategic we really he really felt they could go out

00:31:27.520 | of business and he wasn't willing to give them money to help them but the bottom line was that that matches

00:31:35.440 | up exactly to that 9.1 percent that david sachs mentions it also mentions up matches up to okay

00:31:43.280 | does he fully support the oil companies over the price of gas and will that influence what he will do

00:31:51.520 | as president again so when he says i'll just get out of ukraine depends on who's making the money and where

00:31:58.640 | it is when he says i'm going to get people to drill baby drill okay well we already learned a lesson

00:32:03.760 | wait wait wait wait sorry okay so look this is very hard to hold on a second this is very hard to fact

00:32:09.440 | check in real time because i've never heard this theory before oh well no no we can have a theory on

00:32:14.480 | the pod i just have freeberg get involved freeberg hasn't asked a question yet so let me try the point

00:32:19.840 | the point is that yeah you know this is like totally novel i don't even think i've heard you make this

00:32:24.160 | theory on x before because i was waiting okay so here we go so you're dropping a whole hold on a second

00:32:29.680 | hasn't been able to get involved let's have freeberg basically cite this nonsense and i don't

00:32:34.720 | get to interrogate it a little bit it's not nonsense david you okay no no but i just wanted

00:32:38.480 | to include freeberg in this discussion 40 minutes let me ask a question go chat gpt it go google it go

00:32:44.560 | look it up however you want okay what about the fact that biden's first day in office he cancels

00:32:50.240 | the keystone pipeline and a bunch of leases he makes it harder to drill in the united states so he

00:32:56.320 | reduces the ability for domestic producers to produce you don't think that that would have an impact

00:33:02.160 | yeah but it wasn't on the price it wasn't on the price of gas because it's the price of gas is a

00:33:08.880 | global phenomenon right the price of oil rather is a global phenomenon it's we we are the largest

00:33:14.080 | producer of energy in the world but we're still only about 13 i think it is don't quote me on that but

00:33:19.760 | that's that's a range and so the other 87 has more of an impact and even to that there was still an

00:33:26.160 | unlimited amount of drilling available on public lands and leases available that weren't fully used

00:33:32.560 | now that said i think biden did mistakes did make mistakes okay yeah so wait wait okay guys hold on

00:33:38.160 | let's just finish one thing before the other i would just like an answer of what is the good and the bad

00:33:43.520 | of donald trump and then what i was going to ask you is what was the good and the bad of biden i just want

00:33:47.920 | those sure tomorrow i appreciate guys just just just give me one second can i just ask make one

00:33:53.680 | comment i've been here for like 40 minutes um yeah i want to respond to the inflation point mark i

00:34:00.160 | you know i just shared two images first was the u.s crude oil production chart and more than half of

00:34:05.200 | this oil is exported so you can see the the reduction in production but the the domestic oil production

00:34:14.080 | capacity remained high relative to our consumption so u.s consumption if oil was the biggest driver

00:34:21.920 | it really would have affected the profits of the exporting companies not necessarily the cost of

00:34:27.440 | energy domestically i will however point out that the federal balance sheet the federal reserve's

00:34:33.200 | balance sheet swelled during covid from four trillion dollars to eight trillion dollars and as we all know

00:34:39.520 | there was significant fiscal stimulus meaning the fed the federal government was the only charge

00:34:45.920 | david i just say it was the only cause yeah well i would argue that flooding the world with dollars

00:34:52.560 | which is what the federal reserve did because they bought up all the bonds as the federal government

00:34:57.040 | started to issue money in lots of different ways caused the supply of dollars to go up which causes the

00:35:02.240 | cost of anything that's dollar denominated to grow up and i think many economists would argue and make the case

00:35:07.520 | that the fiscal policy and the monetary policy of the federal government and the federal reserve

00:35:12.000 | is largely to account and i'm not going to use the word blame but to account for the inflation we saw

00:35:17.440 | in the cost of everything from energy to production to labor to assets and so they're not mutually exclusive

00:35:24.800 | they're not they're not but there was also significant as we can all acknowledge massive in a

00:35:30.880 | dynamical system global supply chains are a dynamical system stuff is made in one place moved to another

00:35:36.720 | place when one thing breaks or it slows down it all breaks and we had a massive shortfall

00:35:42.960 | agree 100 goods around the world and that was the biggest driver of the inflationary effects that we

00:35:48.080 | saw i agree 100 but even if you go back to those the first two charts you put up it matches up with

00:35:53.280 | exactly what i said production went down demand went up and the net result was that price of gas went up

00:36:01.200 | and price of gases and everything is it the only cost no production went down in everything not just energy

00:36:07.840 | but everything and not because of energy but because of a lot of other reasons exactly and then and then

00:36:13.040 | we had a whiplash problem where we had over demand relative to the natural and none of the production

00:36:18.080 | systems could keep up with demand because of the fiscal stimulus i agree 100 with you all i'm saying

00:36:23.840 | you can try to trace it back to maybe it's one percent of the price maybe it's three percent of

00:36:28.960 | the price maybe whatever the percentage is i'm not saying it's exclusive but you can trace it back to

00:36:34.240 | the decision being made to support the energy companies and say we are going to reduce production

00:36:40.240 | rather than just letting the market play out and saying we'll let gas prices stay as low as they are

00:36:44.880 | based off of supply and demand now are do i agree with you that supply chain disruption transitory yes

00:36:52.240 | of course and fiscal and monetary policy yes stimulating the world economy by pouring a ton of money out

00:36:58.640 | that's never happened in history right for sure a hundred percent the question is and proportionality

00:37:03.600 | do you think larry summers was wrong when in q1 the first quarter of the biden harris administration

00:37:09.840 | larry summers warned that if you pass another two trillion of covid stimulus like they were

00:37:15.680 | planning to do that could set off inflation that we were on the brink he said that he did make that

00:37:20.400 | declaration again against his own party mark and he said this is the wrong thing as a democrat he said

00:37:25.920 | this is the wrong thing to do and they went forward with what they plan to do for various reasons some

00:37:30.880 | would argue political some would argue that they thought it was the right thing to do and the effect was

00:37:34.800 | precisely as larry had predicted yeah kamala harris cast the tie-breaking vote for that inflation

00:37:41.200 | explosion act otherwise known as the american rest otherwise known as the american rescue plan

00:37:46.400 | so here's the actually i agree with i agree with friedberg 100 the cause of this massive 20

00:37:54.880 | inflation we've had over biden's four years but that's the secret deal between trump and mbs and like

00:38:01.040 | putin's in there somewhere you can dismiss it all you want david just look at the data and look at

00:38:05.840 | the numbers and they match up now to freeberg's point the freeberg's point is it the only thing that

00:38:11.040 | caused inflation of course not when you spend too much money when you inflate the economy when you

00:38:15.920 | have supply chain disruption all those things contribute but we're also not having the conversation

00:38:22.160 | to say okay how much of the supply chain disruption contributed to inflation was it three

00:38:27.440 | percent of that twenty percent was it five percent was it seven percent was it one percent we don't

00:38:32.160 | know it's impossible it's all the supply the supply hold on the supply chain was constrained during

00:38:36.640 | covet and it was healing it was getting better and then they pumped all the stimulus and everyone got

00:38:41.360 | these just to level set with that let me just let me just let me level set my opinion let's leave

00:38:46.400 | the opinion i'm just really curious i just want the high level report card on the last two presidents

00:38:51.840 | what is the high level report card mark to put a cap on this just for the audience here is our national debt

00:38:57.360 | president over the two presidencies the two terms and as you can see with the taking out the bump for

00:39:03.840 | covet it's pretty much they're both wild spenders i think we can all agree they both are spending too

00:39:08.480 | much money and we need to have more fiscal discipline we all agree on that now to chem out's point

00:39:13.360 | it's steel man anything you like about the trump presidency and then we'll go to kamala i mean

00:39:19.840 | i think there was good elements of the tax cut i think he went too far but i think they needed to

00:39:27.120 | come down from 35 yeah whatever the corporate rate 35 i think was corporate that was too expensive it

00:39:33.360 | made it difficult for us to compete globally i thought 20 um and i thought bringing down cap gains

00:39:40.000 | um again i forget exactly what they were maybe 29 i forget was also smart but i think he went too far

00:39:46.800 | but you can argue that there's no right answer on what that is going to be it's a guess right

00:39:51.280 | you just put it out there and you hope what you what you plan and what you propose and what is

00:39:55.680 | implemented works and you don't know until it does so i didn't i didn't have a problem with him trying

00:40:00.560 | that yeah 35 to 21 you got it exactly right yeah you've acknowledged that kamala's unrealized gains

00:40:06.880 | tax is a disaster well i'll acknowledge that it's not real and you're making it up that you've never heard

00:40:11.920 | her say i made it up yeah you made her up her it was in it was in the biden the last biden harris budget

00:40:18.240 | it was in the harris platform at the dnc it was the biden platform at the dmc right you have never

00:40:25.680 | heard her talk about it they did a searcher place on his name and put her name in there but you're you're

00:40:31.040 | reaching david you're reaching right you've never heard her talk about it at all she's been very specific

00:40:36.640 | that cap gains goes to 28 percent that um that what is what is biden what has biden done well

00:40:43.760 | and what has he not done well and then the follow-up question is if it were an open democratic primary

00:40:49.680 | would you have voted for kamala harris i don't know but then again if donald trump participated in the

00:40:55.840 | debates on the republican primary in the republican primary would you have voted for donald trump

00:41:02.960 | you know you're saying you're saying it's analogous the republicans had an open primary

00:41:08.400 | no but they didn't de santis competed but he didn't participate nikki haley competed that an open

00:41:13.760 | primary trump was 50 hold on a second trump trump was 50 points ahead maybe he should have debated i

00:41:19.040 | don't know maybe of course no i mean look i would have been in favor of him debating but

00:41:22.800 | he was 50 points ahead and everybody had a chance to run yeah but they didn't really have a chance because

00:41:28.240 | the democrats pretended hold on let me finish and you can get your response okay the democrats pretended

00:41:34.400 | that joe biden was just fine that he was sharp as attack that he was the best version of joe biden

00:41:39.600 | and when the primary came and you had um outsiders like bobby kennedy uh try to compete not only did he

00:41:48.640 | not only did biden not debate they basically used lawfare to keep bobby kennedy off the ballot they did not

00:41:54.880 | allow him a fair shot at the nomination which is why he had to leave the party and run as an independent

00:42:01.440 | then we find out after the debate that actually biden is not fine he's actually appears to be in

00:42:08.160 | significant cognitive decline so somehow nancy pelosi gets him out of there and then kamala harris is

00:42:14.000 | anointed she's never won a primary vote ever she in 2020 she ran and dropped out before the first

00:42:21.760 | primary and then this time around she never had to compete in the primary and somehow she's the

00:42:26.880 | candidate the question is i don't think well the question is how can you liken this to what the

00:42:31.360 | republicans did having an open and competitive primary so first of all the republicans did not have

00:42:36.160 | an open and competitive keyword competitive primary because if one of the candidates refuses to

00:42:42.080 | participate because they have a lead look what happened to joe biden for all we know vivek vivek

00:42:48.000 | would have destroyed trump as much as trump destroyed joe biden nikki haley would have destroyed trump

00:42:54.960 | as much as joe um donald trump destroyed joe biden i don't know i think that's i was supporting de

00:43:00.560 | santis at that time and it was definitely the santis would have crushed him too right they were

00:43:04.640 | those they were allowed to compete their names were on the ballot i know talking about a very sex would

00:43:08.960 | you do you think de santis nikki halley or vivek would have beaten trump in a in a debate no i think

00:43:15.680 | when if you look at them okay well hold on i'm saying it's unclear i don't think you can just say that

00:43:20.560 | they would have won i mean thank you so that means it's not a truly competitive when trump when trump

00:43:26.000 | was in a crowded republican field and debated he crushed everybody so i just don't know what would

00:43:31.360 | have happened that was 2016. this is just debate this is just debate okay what about the point that

00:43:37.440 | the democrats kept other contenders off the ballot they used lawfare and moreover they lied about biden's

00:43:45.280 | cognitive condition and then they anointed kamala harris through a process that is opaque and we still

00:43:50.480 | don't know what happened okay so here's my answer right first going back to republic it wasn't a

00:43:54.560 | competitive primary if the contender doesn't participate and yes he did well against 15 other

00:44:00.640 | candidates in 2016 but i'd be willing to bet that he's also had cognitive decline everything he says

00:44:06.960 | and does is reflective of that if joe biden had said the same thing we would be having a lot of quote we

00:44:12.560 | would we don't judge donald trump and his cognitive ability the way we did joe biden okay so we'll put

00:44:18.640 | that behind now let's go to joe biden do you think democrats lied about biden's condition let's just

00:44:23.040 | let me i'm gonna tell you my personal experiences with joe biden right i didn't talk to him a lot

00:44:27.680 | twice during that period and i can tell you from the first time i saw him a year before the last time i

00:44:34.400 | saw him which was you know probably in march or april i forget there was a decline but the decline was in

00:44:42.640 | his sharpness right his quickness of response if you sat down and you listen to him speak about something

00:44:48.240 | which i did he wasn't forceful he wasn't you know he looked like a walking corpse um he looked awful

00:44:54.000 | right um but in terms of content it was there and so i understand why they positioned him the way they

00:45:01.280 | did it's just to sell it was impossible so that's part one so i don't think the decline is nearly what

00:45:08.480 | you're saying it is but i do agree that you're rid of him okay so that's now we're moving forward right

00:45:13.760 | his ability to respond in real time you slow down we all slow down right i'm 66 years old and i've slowed

00:45:20.640 | down versus where i was at 45. you so you know at 81 and at 78 you are going to be slower joe biden and

00:45:29.280 | just was not as quick that was a real problem he got destroyed in the debate by trump because of that not

00:45:34.400 | because he didn't know the the materials and the content but he just couldn't respond and think

00:45:39.040 | fast enough so i think that's where the the misunderstanding is it's not that he had cognitive

00:45:44.080 | decline in the pure sense it's that his ability to respond quickly was gone and he looked like he had

00:45:51.200 | cognitive decline so now let's go forward to the democratic national um convention where um and right

00:45:57.200 | before that where they replaced it i was curious about the just the um mechanics of the whole thing

00:46:03.520 | so being the curious person i am i went and pulled up the bylaws and the rules of the democratic party

00:46:11.120 | and the democratic national convention and they reset those every four years and prior to them

00:46:16.880 | pulling out and it's very very clear that the only mission and the only task and it's pretty much the

00:46:22.720 | same in the republicans i looked at theirs too the only mission is to win you want to win the

00:46:27.280 | presidency you want to have control of congress that's all they care about and they give themselves

00:46:33.440 | every bit of flexibility to do whatever they damn well please to put themselves in that position

00:46:39.680 | they are a private organization are they the party are they the party then of democracy as they claim to

00:46:45.200 | be or are they the party of winning it all so now you're trying to you know play branding games right

00:46:50.480 | is starbucks really saying that their rhetoric is at odds with what they actually did hold on a second

00:46:55.520 | there were 14 million primary voters in the democratic primary that's the mainstream media

00:47:00.080 | discussion of this right they said there's 14 million voters i say trump didn't debate at all

00:47:04.880 | there was zero debates with donald trump which one was primary though people got to vote for their

00:47:09.120 | candidate it's not an open primary because it's donald trump's family business he controlled what

00:47:14.400 | happened in the yeah listen i mean i was again i was supporting someone different during the primary

00:47:20.720 | and the reason why desantis lost is he didn't get enough votes okay and if you would have missed an

00:47:25.840 | opportunity donald trump that's why i bet you won the primary fair and square whether he debated or not

00:47:30.800 | he was up 50 points on everybody else and i bet and i don't know that's not what happened with

00:47:35.120 | biden what happened with biden let me finish david let me finish biden won the democratic primary got

00:47:39.920 | 14 million votes and then they threw out that throughout that result and put in kamala harris

00:47:44.480 | because they didn't like his we were in a fraternity what's that we ever in a fraternity we ever in a

00:47:49.360 | fraternity no okay in a fraternity they get to vote on all kinds of but at the end of the day if the

00:47:56.480 | chapter of the the national organization says no right doesn't matter who won the election right so you're

00:48:02.560 | saying the democratic party is a click i get it it's just i think we're talking let me get let me

00:48:06.720 | regain control here just to just to recap david you're just talking branding you can brand it however

00:48:12.320 | you want no the democrats said they're the party of democracy the democrats i'm not a democrat i don't

00:48:16.800 | care what they do i don't care what you're supporting them you're supporting i'm supporting

00:48:20.880 | hold on can you just acknowledge that their rhetoric is hypocritical i don't care what the rhetoric is

00:48:26.960 | i don't pay attention i don't pay attention to their rhetoric we're not going to get progress i

00:48:32.400 | really want to hear what mark thinks yes okay here we go forward move forward two okay two

00:48:36.560 | things seem to uh be true at the same time if i'm recapping your position here mark one you would have

00:48:42.240 | liked to seen trump debate two i think you would have loved to seen a speed run primary perhaps maybe

00:48:48.000 | kamala you know battled it out i honestly didn't care i went once donald trump was the candidate i wanted

00:48:54.400 | the best person to beat donald trump that's what i cared about let me go back to my question so i'm just

00:48:59.520 | going to give you a succinct summary of mark cuban's position his evaluation of the trump

00:49:04.400 | presidency the positives were tax cuts and warp speed and operation warp speed the negatives were

00:49:11.360 | continuing the war in yemen when they had a chance to and then this and actually the negative wasn't so

00:49:18.240 | much that sorry tramite okay the negative wasn't so much he continued it the negative is the hypocrisy

00:49:23.200 | in his okay right in the style okay now the tone and style of how he governed can we do biden what

00:49:28.880 | are the things that biden and harris did well that have helped the country and what are the things that

00:49:34.320 | they could have done better did not do well so i'll start with the negatives first so just so you know

00:49:38.400 | that there's a lot of them one the way they handled the border was horrific there's no way to you know to

00:49:44.720 | say it any differently now i understand why they took the approach they did literally if if i were

00:49:51.440 | in a central a central american company country and my family was at risk of getting shotgun because

00:49:57.760 | there's a drug war i'm doing everything i can and i reckon i recognize you know that if i just set foot

00:50:03.920 | on american soil i have a chance for asylum and i get that and i get why biden and his administration

00:50:10.080 | might say just for humanitarian reasons we're going to increase the number of people that we allow to do

00:50:16.240 | that i understand why he would do it but at the same time he opened the door too wide and he made it

00:50:23.120 | so that there were too many people that came through and that created cascading problems now to his credit

00:50:28.720 | down back in june i think it was he excited he signed an executive order which he now has made

00:50:33.680 | permanent or as permanent as you can as president that changed um that there's no longer the option

00:50:39.920 | to just set foot on american soil and be eligible for um a hearing for asylum you can't do that any longer

00:50:47.360 | and to her credit she worked with the um head of the mexican government and they have taken steps to

00:50:54.400 | reduce the flow of people to the border and so now the number of encounters at the border is about the

00:51:01.520 | same as what it was right before the pandemic under the trump administration so while he was too long to

00:51:08.000 | do it while he um handled it incorrectly overall and messaging was horrible i think they got to the

00:51:15.040 | right place but now we have a problem right that he created where we have too many um non-citizens

00:51:22.720 | illegal aliens however you want to call them however you want to brand them and we have to

00:51:27.760 | understand how to deal with them i think that they have talked about kamala has talked about

00:51:33.440 | first and even jd vance said this first we're going to get rid of the criminals which makes sense but

00:51:38.640 | donald trump says we're just going to deport everybody any illegal we're just going to deport them

00:51:44.320 | now obama was the deporter in chief he deported more people than trump or biden over 3 million people

00:51:49.760 | but he had a specific process in place that everybody could understand and i think with

00:51:54.960 | trump remember um that or orion gonzalez kid the six-year-old kid in miami elion gonzalez right where

00:52:02.960 | all of a sudden you had these these cops with you know riot gear on and machine you know an ar-15s or

00:52:09.600 | whatever they use pointing them at a six-year-old kid cowering in a closet if donald trump does that and

00:52:15.840 | that's not contrary to how he approaches things we could have another series of riots and protests

00:52:23.840 | that go really really bad and so while i think biden handled things completely wrong at the beginning

00:52:30.160 | i think with harris now and she's saying she'll support the um the immigration bill that was

00:52:36.240 | bipartisan etc etc you guys know that i think she has a more common sense approach to dealing with

00:52:42.640 | deportations and getting people through the asylum system and the asylum that bill i think said that

00:52:49.120 | it would reduce the amount of time to adjudicate asylum to 90 days which means that there's a chance to

00:52:54.560 | get control of this before it turns into a ride okay so that that was border was bad anything else

00:52:59.600 | bad or should we shift to the good i think the spending was bad i think um that we overspent

00:53:05.200 | and i think we went through a period where uh and i'm not trying to make excuses for him i just think

00:53:10.080 | you know you guys mentioned this before he did overspend and i think the the infrastructure bill was

00:53:15.840 | good i think the broadband bill was good and everybody says we spent 42 billion dollars on broadband and

00:53:20.800 | got nothing we should have gone to starling but the reality is the money went to the states and they

00:53:24.720 | could buy um starlink from elon all they want so that's just kind of the mainstream media poo-pooing

00:53:30.720 | something they shouldn't poo-poo but the ev stuff the ev chargers that's a cluster you know and there's

00:53:36.560 | no way around that and so i think that was bad um so pork barrel spending basically unaccountable

00:53:43.520 | spending yeah no i think you know what they did in healthcare um you know you can take lena khan

00:53:48.560 | and say what she's doing for the mergers you know alberson's and kroger's i think is too much i think

00:53:54.000 | you know and i even told her this i sat on a panel sitting right next to her and i said the most

00:53:58.320 | important thing from a technological perspective in this country today is that we win ai that is going

00:54:04.000 | to find everything militarily for us and economically for us and that when you try to break up companies

00:54:09.280 | like google and facebook you diminish our ability to compete globally with ai and she told me now that

00:54:15.040 | she didn't didn't impact her at all that she understands that and she's heard that before

00:54:19.280 | i think their approach to that is wrong i think that what she's done with the ftc against pharmacy

00:54:25.680 | benefit managers has been good right pharmacy benefit managers are ripping off more companies

00:54:31.600 | and costing and increasing the cost of medications more than anything else that's happening in healthcare

00:54:37.680 | and she's called them on the carpet with a recent report and just sued them i think that's good um

00:54:43.280 | i think in terms of other negatives like kamala harris now i think um the um um filibuster i

00:54:50.480 | think that's a mistake to try to get rid of the filibuster because then somebody else gets rid of it for

00:54:54.720 | something else and it's just cascading problems um on spending we talked about i think he spent too much

00:55:01.200 | so what and what have they done well i think he changed the tone of the country i think that was

00:55:06.560 | really really important no one woke up you know david calls it mean tweets but not waking up concerned

00:55:12.480 | about mean tweets is important not waking up concerned about there being some random um tariff on your

00:55:18.880 | company that you didn't expect not waking up being accused of of doing something i think those were all

00:55:25.040 | huge positives i think um supporting workers i think you know just having just a sensibility of okay we're

00:55:35.440 | not in the middle of everything there just wasn't this uncertainty like every single day that every

00:55:40.880 | business woke up with with trump just removing that was the biggest positive of all so let's look forward

00:55:46.880 | now to akamala harris candidacy for president of the things so we know the donald trump track record

00:55:54.480 | because he gets the credit for the things he got right and he has to take ownership of the things

00:55:59.760 | but how it's been defined i'll use the yeaman example again i'll use the price example on oil again

00:56:05.440 | the you know we have trump nisha right we presume that what he did in terms of the economy and everything

00:56:12.400 | and no wars you know no everything was just rosy under donald trump and i think that's another thing

00:56:20.080 | that's negative i'll be honest i've never heard this specific theory i'll take the time

00:56:24.240 | to look and figure it out for myself and i'll let you but what i'm curious about is that track record

00:56:28.640 | is there now how much of the and do you think it's important for us to give credit for the good

00:56:34.880 | things to kamala and responsibility for the bad things to kamala in that so that you have an equivalent

00:56:40.320 | a b comparison do you think about it that way or not no i don't and i'll tell you why okay i'm assuming

00:56:45.360 | all you guys have had a boss at one point or another yes yeah yeah and do you all agree with

00:56:50.800 | everything that that boss did all the time no no no but you had to do what the boss told you to do

00:56:58.240 | yeah and that's kamala's job but i like i like to take credit for when the boss tells me i'm owning

00:57:02.960 | something and then i do it well but at the same time you get credit for doing it but it doesn't

00:57:09.120 | matter you know if it turns out to be wrong it's still the boss that's on the hook for it what about

00:57:13.920 | the border mark because you made a comment about the border and she was declared the border czar

00:57:17.680 | yeah again that that's branding i mean we play branding games with politics all the time if you

00:57:24.080 | look at what her specific responsibility was i alluded to it earlier her job was to go to central america

00:57:30.400 | and talk to the heads of the countries there and try to reduce the reasons why people were leaving their

00:57:35.600 | countries to go to the united states why do you think they uh open the border so much i'm wondering

00:57:41.600 | mark there is a conspiracy theory or theory um you can you can pick how you want to frame it that this

00:57:47.520 | is to increase the number of democratic voters at the same time we hear that a lot of the folks coming

00:57:52.080 | in who are the working class that the republican party is now the populist party so those votes would

00:57:56.000 | go to the republicans so you know i've heard this argument from both sides what is another there's another

00:58:00.320 | theory an economic theory mark which is that it increases the base of workers when we're at our

00:58:06.480 | lowest unemployment rate in history and inflation is raging so by bringing in low-cost workers

00:58:12.000 | that you're that you're able to get to work at a lower wage rate you actually have a deflationary

00:58:17.200 | effect and a stimulatory effect because then they end up being extended and i get the logic there

00:58:21.120 | i don't think they're i think maybe they might have thought of that earlier and that's why they let too

00:58:26.400 | many people in but i think they realize now that they screwed up and that shouldn't be an executive

00:58:31.840 | authority right i mean that should be like a legislative congressional authority that makes

00:58:36.160 | that decision and that determination on whether to change immigration policy do you think that the

00:58:40.640 | executive branch should be able to unilaterally determine who comes into the country without

00:58:44.960 | following laws no i prefer that congress does it unfortunately that's just not what works look at the

00:58:50.320 | sec with gary gensler the guy's a moron and but you know they here we go we can agree on that actually

00:58:58.400 | yeah so that's an area we can we can agree on but before we get to that so so your claim on board we

00:59:02.640 | finally found ground truth here we go no we can agree on we can agree on that we'll get to that but

00:59:09.200 | but before before we do that i just want to finish up on border here so your claim is that kamala harris

00:59:14.560 | really wanted to seal the border but she was prevented no david you're really good at trying

00:59:21.760 | to position things so you have you know you have talking points to go out with um so i'm just you

00:59:27.360 | said that this is a case of a vp who was thwarted by her boss no that is not what i said okay so you

00:59:35.040 | admit you are the king of virtue signaling david no no no that's not virtue signaling okay so the

00:59:39.920 | truth is she was on board with joe biden's agenda i don't know she's doing what she was told which

00:59:45.760 | one is it there's no you're creating false choices david you're creating false so david if you do the

00:59:52.400 | job your boss told you to do does that do you make a declaration before you do it if i agree or disagree

00:59:59.200 | how do you know she disagreed with joe biden about these policies because i see what she's doing now

01:00:04.000 | well because she changed the policy right she has a different policy election year conversion she

01:00:08.160 | realizes what a disaster it's been so so when trump does it it's brilliant let me give you the proof

01:00:14.000 | okay her own words okay so she flipped her position she called trump's border wall un-american and medieval

01:00:20.960 | and mocked it and this is before she became biden's vice president right around the same time hold on when

01:00:25.840 | she was in the senate and trump was trying to build the wall remember democrats tried to thwart that they

01:00:30.320 | subjected him to years of litigation to prevent him from building that wall and she multiple times was

01:00:36.560 | on record saying the wall was un-american medieval mocked and so forth she also compared ice to the kkk

01:00:43.600 | she said that images of border patrol agents evoke slavery okay this is her rhetoric i don't think joe

01:00:49.760 | biden made her say that she suggested that we abolish ice and start from scratch okay and now

01:00:56.000 | she wants to talk about how tough she is on the border it's ridiculous maybe she talked to jd vance

01:01:01.040 | back then and was taking his positions people change their mind for whatever reason people learn your

01:01:07.760 | positioning as okay so for so hold on so so throughout her whole time in the senate she was arguing against

01:01:13.520 | the border wall okay in the strongest possible language she then becomes border czar or you could call

01:01:18.720 | it point person for the biden administration and for three years they gaslit us that the border was

01:01:25.280 | not a problem that was not an open festering wound like the videos were constantly coming out i remember

01:01:30.640 | on the show we talked about it and i was told when i raised the issue of the border that was a conspiracy

01:01:34.800 | theory that fox news was just cherry picking videos remember that jason in any event yeah well people were

01:01:39.680 | actually it was interesting to bring that up because people were sharing people were sharing videos and

01:01:44.160 | playing them on fox that were from like 10 years ago so there was a lot of misinformation democrats

01:01:48.960 | the whole thing about caravans david all those caravans never made it to the border how many caravans

01:01:54.000 | did we hear about something like 10 over 10 million migrants have entered the country during the biden

01:01:59.280 | harris administration the first thing they did hold on first of all we don't know when biden went by

01:02:05.040 | no no no no we do know those those 10 million are just the border encounters those are the recorded

01:02:11.600 | crossings that they led into the country the number we don't know is whether how many more were not

01:02:16.800 | recorded encounters 20 or 30 million well you can look up on what happened why why did this happen i'll

01:02:22.000 | tell you why when joe biden took office he repealed all of trump's executive orders no he did not

01:02:27.440 | what is it section 42 what's it 90 of them title title 40 and the most around until the end of 23.

01:02:34.160 | and in addition they got rid of trump's remain in mexico policy and they changed the meaning of

01:02:38.720 | asylum so that anyone who went to the border and said that they were suffering economic hardship which

01:02:43.200 | is basically the whole world okay could now qualify for asylum and they were giving they were given

01:02:47.920 | like a ticket to appear in court one day like three years five years and they were ushered into the

01:02:51.840 | country and then there were like non-profits working with the biden administration to put them on

01:02:56.000 | buses david i agreed that they were shipped all over the country i agreed they screwed up on the border

01:03:02.560 | no fine they screwed up but now we are back so yeah but she she changed just like donald

01:03:09.760 | she changed like jd vance jd vance called him hitler jd vance in 2020 and and after diminished

01:03:15.680 | donald trump that was those in private communications in 2016 and jd advance explained including last night

01:03:20.960 | why he changed his mind about right and that's fine so he talked to people so so does she representing the

01:03:25.760 | state of the people this was her position like six months ago and now all of a sudden she's the

01:03:30.480 | nominee so she's no no no no no no you're you're trying you're virtue signaling like a right you're

01:03:36.640 | trying to put you're trying to brand anything you tried to brand anything that you disagree with that

01:03:42.160 | you think is a negative and just put it on her which is politics 101 right but you're not looking at

01:03:47.680 | what she's actually doing what she's actually doing person for the administration okay look

01:03:52.000 | doesn't matter if she was if she was in charge does and she said you know what what you want her to do

01:03:59.040 | is like jd vance said about um abortion right i talked to somebody and you know they proved it

01:04:04.560 | great that was a smart move by him would it be smart for her to say i was wrong now i i've learned more

01:04:09.840 | and i've picked up more information now it's actually a good question for you sax if jd vance can

01:04:15.920 | lobby and want a national abortion ban and then change his mind as the number two for trump

01:04:21.200 | can kamala change her mind when she is he's no longer running for you know the number two seat as

01:04:28.880 | biden well i think i think jd explained why he changed his mind about that he said that there was

01:04:34.080 | a referendum in ohio and his side lost so he can change his mind can kamala and you have the grace

01:04:39.520 | for kamala to change your mind or not hold on a second he's taking a learning from that

01:04:42.960 | kamala harris has never explained why she changed her mind when will the media even ask her this

01:04:49.280 | question she doesn't submit for interviews and certainly the the debate moderators like on abc

01:04:55.280 | never asked her a question mark if she's going to change her mind if she's going to have this

01:04:59.280 | election year conversion why doesn't the media ask her what is the basis of this when did you change

01:05:03.520 | your mind was it five minutes ago why then did you uh support biden throughout your entire

01:05:09.280 | last three and a half years why don't they ask her these questions if you were part of the

01:05:13.280 | biden administration why do you volunteer to be the border czar if you disagree with joe

01:05:17.280 | biden about these policies when exactly did you change your mind those are the questions that she

01:05:21.520 | should be answering why will she those are the questions that you want those are the questions that

01:05:26.480 | you want so that you think you can put her on the defensive and get and have this country to know

01:05:33.680 | no look you want to know but let me just tell you what's important put yourself put yourself in the

01:05:39.200 | shoes let's just call this a business right and the business of this business is getting votes and

01:05:44.880 | winning this election and you came in and the the product that you originally had new coke failed right

01:05:52.080 | biden's new coke in this example and you come in and you say i'm you know i'm bringing it back this is

01:05:57.360 | the new new coke and we're going to test to see if that's working well when you brought in kamala harris

01:06:03.120 | she had no favorable ratings whatsoever she was behind in all polling right where joe biden was

01:06:10.160 | and now she's either even or ahead or a little bit behind in every single poll and why do i bring it up

01:06:17.440 | because it means what she's doing is working you know i think actually we agree i think we actually

01:06:22.160 | have found a point to agree on which is i think kamala harris is just saying whatever it takes

01:06:26.160 | to get elected you can say the same thing about i think her true belief hold on she stated her true

01:06:30.480 | belief years ago and throughout the biden administration which is she never believed the

01:06:34.320 | border was a problem she thought the border wall trump's wall was un-american and medieval

01:06:38.400 | and she thought that ice needed to be abolished i think that was her true belief now if it's not

01:06:42.720 | her true belief i would like her to explain when she changed her belief and why the same way that

01:06:47.920 | jd vance did and i think the american people are entitled to know that and i think if the media was

01:06:52.240 | doing its job they'd be asking her those questions she she's never been asked that stephanie rule

01:06:57.200 | latest interview did not ask that and the debate moderators did not ask that let's just go outside

01:07:02.560 | of america for one second because mark you're jewish you're of jewish heritage i would really like your

01:07:08.320 | opinion on what's happening outside of america there was some crazy pictures over the last few weeks

01:07:15.680 | coming out from the middle east there's still all this complications complicating stuff with china

01:07:21.200 | where do you stand on all of these things where do you stand on the mearsheimer sacks jeffrey sacks

01:07:30.240 | kind of school of logic that there's a military industrial accomplice that tends to just push us

01:07:35.760 | towards these war zones and these forever wars where do you just stand on those issues and how

01:07:40.160 | do you think about that i mean honestly i don't have enough information to give you a qualified response

01:07:45.600 | i'm pro-israel to the core because i'm jewish um i'm anti-hamas to the core i think you know they're

01:07:52.880 | terrorists they are terrorists um i want to see israel to succeed i want to see israel succeed i want to see

01:07:59.200 | the united states support them and help them in that um but you know when israel was going into gaza

01:08:06.800 | i thought it was too blunt an instrument but when they went after hezbollah i thought they did it the

01:08:10.880 | exact right way and so you know i'm i'm always only going to respond you have a nuanced opinion

01:08:17.280 | of this yeah and ukraine yeah um ukraine i don't want to see american blood spilled and as long as there's a

01:08:23.360 | nato and i agreed there should be a nato i'd rather see us spend money than put soldiers in harm's way

01:08:29.200 | and so um does the harris campaign agree on that point or do they have a conversation i haven't had

01:08:34.800 | that conversation with them i don't know let me ask you just a point on arithmetic which i think is the

01:08:41.120 | most important arithmetic we should all be talking about today is the first uh yesterday was the first day

01:08:46.320 | of the uh federal fiscal year fiscal year right and uh here's a little uh image for us to all look at

01:08:52.880 | together as a group an image that everyone should wake up every morning in the united states and look

01:08:57.520 | at the first thing they do instead of looking at twitter they should look at the image that i'm

01:09:00.800 | sharing on the screen right now which is federal debt in the united states i thought it was maybe a

01:09:06.400 | screen of you taking a bath this is the first day on the first day of the new fiscal year federal debt

01:09:12.000 | jumped by 204 billion dollars in one day federal debt now stands at 35.7 trillion dollars and the

01:09:19.680 | biggest challenge we have in the year ahead is that 10 trillion of the outstanding debt comes up for

01:09:26.160 | refinance it's going to refinance at around four percent so we're going to be adding another 300

01:09:31.120 | billion dollars in new interest expense next fiscal year plus the biden administration has proposed a

01:09:38.240 | 7.2 trillion dollar budget for next year which will inevitably lead to another 2 trillion dollars of

01:09:44.240 | deficit spending which means that by the end of 2025 we could be staring at 40 trillion dollars of federal

01:09:52.080 | debt and if you do the math on that at four percent interest it's 1.6 trillion a year of interest expense

01:09:57.760 | a year just on interest expense on the outstanding debt which effectively begins to eclipse the entire

01:10:04.160 | federal budget very quickly and gives us no ability to maneuver to meet the needs of all

01:10:09.680 | the policy demands that are being described and shaped in all of these elections and all of these

01:10:14.160 | debates and all the that's going on is really not fundable what does the harris campaign say

01:10:20.000 | about the situation with respect to deficit spending and debt and i don't know how high you can raise taxes

01:10:27.120 | and not cut spending to even make a dent in the challenge ahead without driving

01:10:31.840 | a massive recession what is what do you think like the harris versus the trump campaign's kind of

01:10:37.840 | intentions are as we look at this abyss that we're now kind of jumping again i can't speak for them i can

01:10:43.440 | only tell you the conversations i've had and what they've said to me whether or not they take these

01:10:47.120 | directions is completely up to them and i don't know but i've said the exact same thing they know that

01:10:52.880 | the um the deficit's a problem it won't be a budget by a biden budget there's no biden administration to

01:11:00.240 | happen they've already come you know just the tax rates are completely different than the biden budget

01:11:05.760 | proposals where there's no you know um unrealized capital gains etc they went to 28 and 28 so

01:11:13.040 | it's not going to be what was proposed by biden there's a limit on tax basically right like that that

01:11:18.640 | people yeah there's only there's a point of diminishing returns and raising taxes and they realize it

01:11:22.400 | right so when we talked about unrealized capital gains and i gave them a thousand reasons why not

01:11:26.080 | they're like we already know this um yada yada now to david's point why don't they just come out and

01:11:30.720 | say it because the one percent of high information voters don't know the difference of unrealized

01:11:35.520 | capital gains or not and don't care the 99 want to hear about the things that they're talking about so

01:11:41.040 | that's why people like me can go out there and talk about it but to your point and the bigger point

01:11:44.880 | david um dave that they've realized that there's only a couple ways to reduce the deficit one you get

01:11:51.760 | inflation under control and that reduces interest rates and that's going to work in our favor and i

01:11:56.320 | think that's happening now if it's 1.6 trillion dollars then you know if interest rates go below

01:12:01.040 | four percent that saves a lot of money and probably the most you can save they realized efficiency is an

01:12:07.200 | important element in her last speech in pittsburgh she talked about how long it took it only took one

01:12:12.160 | year to build the empire state building that is crazy there's too much friction in the government to be

01:12:17.120 | able to do building the right way they're going to reduce friction i've had conversations with them

01:12:21.920 | about ai as a service and being able to optimize integrating um artificial intelligence into all

01:12:30.560 | these processes so that they don't have to keep on hiring people i don't think their mindset again i'm

01:12:35.040 | speaking for myself and my perspective of my conversations with them i don't think their mindset

01:12:39.760 | is to just go out there and just cut a ton of people but i do think the mindset is how can we implement

01:12:45.040 | technology to become more efficient so that we can provide more value to the citizens of this country

01:12:50.320 | at less cost i think that's important to them i think um you're going to see a lot of reduction

01:12:57.680 | i'm trying to think the best way to say it she knows that technology is the ultimate driver of

01:13:04.400 | success and if she supports new technologies and you heard that again in pittsburgh she wants she

01:13:10.240 | mentioned blockchain but more importantly she mentioned ai and how ai is key to us being a

01:13:15.920 | dominant military um to having our military be dominant and to have our economy grow because the

01:13:23.040 | other way to get results isn't just a slash and burn like vivek wants to do but to grow the economy

01:13:29.280 | and that there truly are ways to grow the economy without just more spend but do you yeah do you support

01:13:34.640 | elon musk going in like if you're saying shed regulatory burden shed inefficiency improve

01:13:39.600 | productivity don't we need an elon musk style model that you know trump has talked about with elon

01:13:45.680 | send someone in and let's go fix the inefficiency across all of the administrative efforts run by the

01:13:51.200 | federal government one first of all when you just cut when you do a vivek type just cut the department of

01:13:58.240 | education right whatever it is we don't know what elon would actually do well i think that triggers a

01:14:02.080 | recession because then you got a lot of people unemployed right yeah exactly right and there's

01:14:05.360 | contracts and so that means the united states of america is violating all these contracts with

01:14:10.080 | small businesses and medium-sized businesses um and maybe you want to put doge in the the treasury who

01:14:15.760 | knows and that's how we make it all up but but you can't just crap and slash and burn to your point

01:14:21.040 | dave i mean it just won't work and so what you can do though is introduce technology we have yet to

01:14:27.600 | have a president that fully understands technology i'm not here to tell you that kamala harris is a

01:14:33.200 | geek she's not but she understands the impact and she has a lot of people who truly are geeks

01:14:39.680 | around there around her and she truly believes that implementing technology is a way to improve

01:14:45.440 | efficiency but the whole idea is you can't take the libertarian approach that's ideologic you have to

01:14:50.960 | take a problem solving approach how do you look at any specific problem we're trying to solve

01:14:56.480 | how can you apply technology to that i think you will get that from the harris administration as

01:15:02.240 | opposed to donald just talking about the ai and how much energy it consumes mark you you said of all

01:15:08.720 | the rules if there's a harris administration you said you want to run the sec why i was just i was just

01:15:14.960 | trolling gary gansler yeah i was just trolling gary gansler because it's fun to do okay okay so do you

01:15:20.560 | think just you and particularly wise gansler has he done a particularly bad job are you just trolling

01:15:25.680 | are you just trolling are you just trolling david sacks when you say you're trolling me now right

01:15:29.280 | i can't keep up with the troll and i think i need to control the trolling where i agree with mark

01:15:34.320 | mark is actually supporting trump he's just rolling sacks and coming on the show he's been going on for a

01:15:41.840 | week i know he's not supporting trump but but i tell you one uh one republican that as i understand

01:15:47.440 | that you are supporting is john deaton who is running against elizabeth warren in the massachusetts

01:15:52.160 | senate race yep so uh i'm curious about this because i think this is an area we could agree on

01:15:57.280 | you're not sure i mean i didn't know that that's pretty that's pretty interesting yeah i mean i'm

01:16:01.920 | not a fan of elizabeth warren's i've talked to her about crypto i mean i understand her position

01:16:06.320 | her basic position is you know bad nation states use crypto to fund their operations the

01:16:11.520 | bad stuff and she just wants to throw the baby out with the bath water as opposed to

01:16:15.760 | using you know like i proposed a blacklist from ofac that can be implemented in all kinds of i need to

01:16:22.560 | get into the details right but it just it wasn't going to happen and so when john not just being pro

01:16:28.320 | crypto but you know his background his character i thought really was a positive and so even before he

01:16:34.880 | got through his hat in his ring i was talking to him supporting him giving him feedback and helping him so

01:16:40.000 | again i'm not a democrat i have no problem and i think john deedon will be better for the country

01:16:45.280 | better for the citizens of massachusetts than elizabeth warren would be what would be common sense

01:16:49.840 | crypto regulation obviously you don't want people bilking people out of their money yeah so what would

01:16:56.320 | be a way to balance accredited investors versus the populace non-sophisticated investors if that's even a

01:17:03.200 | thing so i've got a company called people running amok you know right so i've got a company called

01:17:07.200 | lazy.com and like if you go to lazy.com m cuban you'll see all my nfts and all it is is a way to

01:17:13.840 | display your nfts it's hardly makes any money but i wanted to see if we could release a token so first

01:17:19.520 | thing i did was i had one of our people call the sec and say hey what steps do we have to take to

01:17:24.240 | release the token they went through this whole rigmarole about getting securities lawyers and this and that

01:17:29.760 | there's no way a company with a hundred thousand dollars in revenue is going to be able to afford

01:17:32.880 | to do that so then i said okay i'm going to go right to the sec.gov and see about reg a and see

01:17:38.640 | if i can just fill out the forms myself and you know just see what so you start filling in name address

01:17:44.080 | and then you get to the type of business and the only category is other and once you follow that other

01:17:49.600 | connection there's just no way to put the um round the just there's no way to make it work you can't you

01:17:57.040 | can't make it work and i actually said that directly to gary gensler and so to answer your question you

01:18:02.560 | have to make it easy to follow the rules and you can't and in terms of everything being a security

01:18:08.880 | gensler says everything applies to howie right there's a how we rule and everything you know

01:18:14.720 | but the reality is there's also a rule that came after really came after um called reeves reeves versus

01:18:20.720 | ernst and young that had to do with interest and if you think about if you guys ever shorted stocks or

01:18:26.160 | done stock loan where you can make some money off a stock loan a borrow yeah yeah so but you know

01:18:31.360 | you can make a share you can make one of your shares of stocks available to the borrower and

01:18:35.120 | get paid a vig right you might get 10 or 12 and so doing that is the exact same thing as loaning out

01:18:42.640 | bitcoin for somebody else to borrow and there's no they don't call that a security so i asked i asked

01:18:48.160 | gary gensler if it's not a security to loan out um a share of stock and why is it you know a security to

01:18:56.880 | loan out a bitcoin to somebody else that didn't have an answer and the point there is he has an approach

01:19:04.640 | that is regulation through litigation he's going to sue you first ask questions later and hope that

01:19:12.160 | the result of that litigation becomes a rule that everybody else has to follow i literally said what's

01:19:18.720 | that well as you say wouldn't a more common sense approach here be to say if we had an accreditation

01:19:24.080 | test a sophisticated investor test we've talked about it here on the program yeah which there is

01:19:29.440 | well there's not one for the populace to take like a driver's license where they could say hey

01:19:34.400 | i've taken this test i understand diversity diversification etc yeah if you're able to register

01:19:40.640 | with securities um an exchange commission for your company for the release of your token then depending

01:19:46.560 | on how many people you're trying to sell it to you would only be able to do that with qualified investors

01:19:51.520 | right but what happens is gary gensler is making it so difficult to register and what he's what he should

01:19:58.400 | be doing is saying here's the bright line regulations if ftx wants to loan out all their ethereum you have

01:20:06.160 | to do what they did in japan you have to have 95 collateral and 95 of anything needs to be put in cold

01:20:13.040 | storage if he had followed the same rules for crypto that japan did ftx would still be in business sam

01:20:18.640 | bakeman free might still be in jail but ftx three arrows capital they'd still be in business because he did the wrong

01:20:25.520 | thing now i've literally talked to kamala harris at lunch about this specific topic of litigate

01:20:31.600 | regulation through litigation and as a lawyer she got it immediately and she knows it's a problem and

01:20:36.880 | they know and she's even mentioned in one of her speeches that that's something that they're going to

01:20:40.720 | deal with can i get your reaction to this story from the washington reporter there was a story i don't

01:20:46.400 | know if it's true or not website washington post but no washington reporters so according to some

01:20:51.520 | senate sources kamala harris was considering gensler for treasury secretary i would call that okay what's

01:20:58.560 | the washington reporter about that or i i haven't asked her about any position at all but what i was

01:21:04.080 | told and look talking to people who are like always in the same room with her the response to me

01:21:11.280 | about gary gensler was have you heard anybody say anything positive that's intentional well i mean

01:21:20.480 | the reason he's in that role is because he is elizabeth warren's right ally and she has been

01:21:27.040 | enormously powerful during the biden administration have you heard her say a word mark mark boil it all

01:21:32.720 | up like what's your general sense of her like how should we all think about her so here's the way i look

01:21:37.200 | at kamala right she is open-minded she's smart she does the work she digs in and learns she's ethical

01:21:44.640 | she's honest she cares um she wants to bring the country to the middle she knows that when she was

01:21:53.040 | far left that might have been great for the state of california but it doesn't solve the problems of

01:21:58.800 | the united states of the america of america today and that's why you've seen her go to the middle and

01:22:04.000 | that is truly i know david you might not believe this it is truly honest and through and through

01:22:09.680 | her when she gave give speeches now she says i'll take ideas from independents i'll take them from

01:22:15.200 | republicans i don't care we have a lot of problems to solve in this country i i would be shocked if if

01:22:21.200 | she wins she talks to elon musk if elon would talk to her she doesn't care where the ideas do interviews

01:22:27.200 | with unfriendly or challenging folks this seems to be like you know a really valid criticism we've had

01:22:33.600 | trump here we've had jd vance here shine yeah i don't disagree look it is why does she why does she

01:22:40.720 | hide do you think i don't think she's hiding there's two elements there right one i think she understands

01:22:46.080 | the assignment which is to win the election and the best way to reach the most number of people and get

01:22:51.360 | them to change their mind is not the one percent of people who are high information voters it's all

01:22:56.080 | the people who are showing up at rallies and screaming and yelling those are the people who

01:23:00.320 | people whose mind she has changed so far and that's how she's caught up and who she wants to change and

01:23:05.600 | that's where she's putting her focus and two and this is brutally honest um she has too long a wind

01:23:11.920 | up in answering every single question and that makes interviews difficult she wants to inspire

01:23:18.320 | everybody with everything that she answers and tries to get people all excited about what she's going to

01:23:23.680 | do and so she takes too long to get to that if you cut out the wind-ups her answers aren't so bad her

01:23:30.000 | answers are absolutely legit but that wind-up makes it seem like the whole word salad thing you don't

01:23:36.080 | think it's relevant that she was born to a middle-class family as the answer to yeah she's going to solve

01:23:40.400 | inflation she's got to drop that yeah but on the flip side i mean if you listen i literally because

01:23:45.200 | i knew i'd be talking to you guys i listened to donald trump's speech in milwaukee did any of you

01:23:49.920 | guys listen to that yes i was there okay well you were there sex that was the last one no no not

01:23:56.480 | milwaukee no no no not the rnc not the rnc two days ago two days ago two days ago talking about the rnc

01:24:03.920 | so kamla might have a long windup donald trump has an eternal windup where all he does is get to his

01:24:11.440 | slogans and talking points and then talks gibberish the rest of the time let me fill you in and some

01:24:16.640 | of the jim about a rally he will speak extemporaneously for over an hour yeah but what he says

01:24:21.840 | should i'll take that any day over someone on a teleprompter for 19 minutes so what you're saying

01:24:25.680 | it doesn't matter what he says no i think it does matter but i think that i've watched enough trump

01:24:32.080 | rallies including his speech at the convention where i was there listening to understand what he's what

01:24:38.000 | issues he stands for okay well tell me what issues he stands for when he diminishes jimmy carter who

01:24:43.440 | just has his 100th birthday tell me what issues i haven't i've heard him say good things and bad things

01:24:48.400 | about okay so let's put that aside everyone makes fun of jimmy carter okay so let's put that aside

01:24:52.320 | let's just say it is what it is even though it's aside we'll go that put that under the character

01:24:57.360 | he started talking about apartments with no windows that builders under kamala harris are going to start

01:25:02.960 | are being forced to build apartments with no windows i haven't heard that bit yet yeah oh i listened to

01:25:08.400 | this today and then he also said that i also know that people take a lot of what trump says out of

01:25:13.520 | context to make it seem a lot worse if you actually listen to if you listen to what he says and you

01:25:19.520 | don't try to um you know shade it in the worst possible way a lot of what he says makes sense

01:25:25.200 | i believe that if you if you want to know why i support trump number one the border

01:25:29.680 | okay unlike kamala harris's election year conversion he has been very consistent ever since he came down

01:25:35.600 | the escalator yes he has that we needed to have a wall and that really that was just the first part

01:25:41.200 | of our border security we need to have a border democrats not just kamala pretty much all the

01:25:45.920 | democrats fought him on that for the last eight years to the point where i understand i understand

01:25:50.480 | so the board is one thing so you got that okay so i think that he and only he has credibility in this

01:25:56.880 | election on that issue number two on the on the foreign wars we talked about this i mean i don't

01:26:03.440 | think his record on foreign policy was perfect but it is true that he did not start any new foreign wars

01:26:10.320 | here is joe biden and and and the set no where did joe biden start the ukraine war we could have ended

01:26:16.240 | that he invaded ukraine i've argued on the show many times in my view he provoked it okay he provoked it okay so

01:26:24.720 | you're assigning whatever to joe biden he forced putin to invade ukraine come on stop acting dumb

01:26:32.640 | you understand that we try to convert ukraine into a giant nato base that was the russians said over

01:26:38.240 | and over again that that was a red line to them it was the brightest of all but to blame it on biden

01:26:42.560 | burns our current cia director said it best it's the brightest all red law of all red lines for the

01:26:49.440 | russian elite not just putin okay okay that has been a consistent you think he contributed to the

01:26:54.400 | war and moreover hold on a second even if you don't believe even if you disagree with me and

01:26:59.200 | you say that biden didn't provoke it we had the chance to end the war in its first month with a

01:27:03.520 | deal in istanbul okay and you know the mainstream media denied it for a year it was only an alternative

01:27:09.600 | media and then finally the new york times the wall street journal wrote stories about it it is the truth

01:27:13.760 | victoria newland just admitted it we could have agreed to a deal in the first month the biden

01:27:18.000 | administration shot that down that is why we have the war going in ukraine okay so let's just say

01:27:22.000 | that's a fact remember and that was also very destructive and by the way if you care about

01:27:27.120 | israel hold on mark if you care about israel you should be really concerned about the fact that

01:27:31.440 | the united states has significantly depleted its stockpiles of weapons and artillery ammunition

01:27:37.520 | in ukraine on a war that is futile we said we said david we didn't give them anything new we sent

01:27:43.760 | them our old israel gets the glengarry leads 155 155 millimeter artillery shells are 155 millimeter

01:27:50.560 | artillery shells it's not about new or old okay get the glengarry lee israel gets the glengarry leads

01:27:56.160 | right and look and on top of that zelinski there's only so much air defense there's only so many patriots

01:28:00.960 | to go around all right do you agree that zelinski could have said yes to that deal the the one in

01:28:10.240 | istanbul yeah he could only say yes to it if the u.s supported it and instead we encouraged him to

01:28:15.760 | fight we threw cold water on that deal we blocked it we should have told zelinski you know what just

01:28:23.120 | make that deal we don't need another war right now okay this nato thing's not happening anyway okay because

01:28:28.720 | we're not letting zelinski into nato well no the guy from norway the guy who just took over nato says

01:28:33.600 | otherwise we're not going to let in zelinski was just here in the u.s last week with his so-called

01:28:39.520 | victory plan you know what his victory plan was let us into nato immediately so that you can fight our

01:28:44.720 | war for us for you no i get that with the administration to its credit rejected that okay i

01:28:49.680 | give biden credit for that the good news is biden is not running in this election whenever it's

01:28:54.320 | inconvenient you want to pretend that harris has nothing to do with this administration i'm just

01:28:59.200 | giving you reality i'm giving you when i've had people who worked for me and started went out and

01:29:04.800 | started their own companies like samatha and in facebook right they're not people have different

01:29:09.920 | opinions the people who work for me do what i say period end of story maybe they do so she was just

01:29:15.360 | following orders basically the nuremberg defense do you think j do you think jd vance is going to do

01:29:20.240 | anything contrary to donald trump if he wins there's an abundant record i know what jd vance

01:29:25.200 | stands for there was an abundant record that's not the question that's not the question harris as a

01:29:28.720 | senator before she even that's not the vp job she was she was rated the most liberal member of the

01:29:34.000 | senate by govtrack why don't you answer mark's question it is the question is what does she really

01:29:38.320 | stand for what's your question sorry what's your question i'm happy to answer it would jd vance ever go

01:29:45.280 | against donald trump no obviously i understand that a vp cannot go against what the president

01:29:51.200 | in a nutshell that's it period now we can cut half the episode out now moving on hold on a second

01:29:56.800 | that fact does not prove that kamala harris has a different policy than joe biden whenever it's

01:30:02.640 | inconvenient for you to admit what she's doing david no you you're doing the exact thing you're saying

01:30:08.160 | you're saying that i'm doing you're trying to position her so that everything from the biden

01:30:12.080 | administration is she has ownership of it and what i'm saying is just look at what she's doing

01:30:17.040 | look at what she's saying you're you would see here's the here's the trump derangement

01:30:22.160 | here's the antithesis of the trump derangement syndrome syndrome right you tell whenever donald

01:30:27.440 | trump says something stupid everybody explains it for him when kamala harris says something smart

01:30:32.800 | everybody tries to explain why it's stupid and not true when did she say something smart i mean seriously

01:30:37.040 | what's the last thing she said that was smart just curious jason i want to fact check the

01:30:42.000 | window list by the way the window list the the windowless thing mark just so you know because nick's

01:30:46.560 | shared it with us it's an architectural digest article apparently eric adams the mayor of new york

01:30:52.640 | proposed windowless bedrooms as a way to change the building codes to incentivize more apartments being

01:30:59.760 | built i think it's also to fix the housing crisis converting the problem with converting the

01:31:03.840 | plates this is what always happens this is the gaslighting they try to make well i mean he also

01:31:08.640 | i mean trump lies constantly let's be honest you find out that there's a real basis to his

01:31:13.280 | in some cases he just lies anyway trump can't ever explain it himself why is it that the guy that you

01:31:19.040 | like can never come out and say hey you know this is crazy this is the most ridiculous thing eric

01:31:23.760 | adams suggested everybody else has got to do the research and explain what trump really means

01:31:28.800 | because he is losing it he is kind of you're the one who raised it as some example as an example of

01:31:35.120 | trump okay do you think it's a cognitive client sex no i think he's very sharp we met him personally

01:31:40.400 | so let's wrap let's wrap the politics section with just a final question because no wait i have a

01:31:45.600 | question yeah let's see politics mark very very pointed question why did you sell the mavs at this

01:31:52.720 | moment so i sold three quarters of them not the whole thing i still own 27.7 percent um for a

01:31:57.840 | couple reasons one when i first bought in in 2000 i i was the tech guy in the mba i was the media guy

01:32:06.080 | you know broadcast.com just sold it um hd net just created the very first ever high definition television

01:32:12.720 | network i had every edge in every angle now fast forward 24 years later um in order to sustain growth to be

01:32:21.600 | able to compete with the new collective bargaining agreement you have to have other sources of

01:32:25.680 | revenue and so you see other teams and all sports for that matter you know talking about casinos

01:32:32.080 | talking about creating doing real estate development all this hotel that's just not me i wasn't going

01:32:37.120 | to put up two billion dollars to you know to get an education on building same that so that was one

01:32:43.280 | that's part one part two is my kids are now 15 18 and 21 and over the next 10 years that's a lot

01:32:51.520 | of pressure on them to have to take over the team or deal with the trust you know god forbid something

01:32:57.040 | happens to me deal with the trust fund issues and so by selling three quarters of it i took all that

01:33:02.720 | pressure off of them because you you guys see the hate i mean jason can tell you all day long about

01:33:07.600 | jimmy dolan you know he's mia right now and the knicks are doing great do you think valuations peak mark

01:33:14.880 | i don't think they've peaked yet because it for the reasons i just mentioned if we're able to build

01:33:21.840 | a venetian type casino in dallas with an american airline center in the middle of it the valuation

01:33:28.720 | is 20 billion dollars but i own 27 percent of that uh well and you bought it for under 300 and yeah

01:33:35.680 | 3.5 just not everybody's keeping the records i think chamath you bought a 300 and sold at 3 billion

01:33:41.360 | as well so congratulations boy actually let me ask you a question about that when you did it did you

01:33:44.960 | just do it for fun and it worked out to be a great business or did you think it's gonna be a great

01:33:48.480 | business no i did it for fun so you know it's a great question david um from 2000 to 2010 the the

01:33:55.920 | actual valuations went down and in 2010 we were not even able to sell the new orleans hornets the league

01:34:04.080 | had to buy it right and it was right around then that the sixers got purchased for 200 for the same

01:34:10.000 | price i paid and you know the um the cap the nba um salary cap is a reflection of the total revenues

01:34:17.200 | of the nba there were multiple years when the salary cap went down meaning our overall revenues went down

01:34:24.080 | which was great for me competitively because i would buy first round picks for three million dollars

01:34:29.120 | i would buy players from other teams that couldn't afford to run their teams and that's

01:34:33.760 | why we went on this you know 15 year streak of never having a losing season and winning 50 games

01:34:38.960 | in a row for for 10 years in a row so um you know it worked against me worked for me competitively

01:34:45.040 | but that just shows you that things can change and so i didn't do what's that what tv deal so when

01:34:51.840 | when um cable and satellite and um over the air became very competitive and they started to grow

01:34:58.640 | and subscriptions grew to 130 million people um or subscriptions that's a lot of money and they had

01:35:06.240 | to compete for content so that there would be less churn and i literally remember in 2001 when we first

01:35:12.880 | signed our first cable deal they nbc had the deal and they were going back to david stern saying we need

01:35:19.360 | fewer games and i sat there in one of our board of governors meetings and i'm like look tbs just

01:35:25.520 | signed a deal to pay a billion dollars per episode for repeats of seinfeld if you do that on evaluation

01:35:32.800 | per hour ours is fresher our ratings are actually better don't think of it as as um less um available

01:35:40.640 | less product will lead to more demand it's the exact opposite we're so inexpensive we can charge more and

01:35:47.280 | that led to the next tv deal and that led to the explosion mark you have a lot of fingers and a lot

01:35:52.480 | of pots and other businesses you have a really important thing you're doing in drugs that you

01:35:56.480 | may want to talk about yeah thanks for bringing that up smith if you look at the next 10 years of

01:36:01.200 | your life so you're 66 between now 14 years between now and 80 81 what's your goal like what are you

01:36:08.400 | working on what are the things that you care about where are you putting your capital what are you trying to

01:36:12.320 | do the number one's family obviously but beyond that is costplusdrugs.com um we're up the health

01:36:18.880 | industry like you wouldn't believe if you've seen just explain it for the folks that don't understand

01:36:23.200 | so let's just say guys our age or you guys are close enough to my age we use

01:36:28.400 | a drug called todilafil right for those of you who know what it is and you it's generic cialis

01:36:36.400 | yeah wait wait hold on we gotta double click on this i've heard from sax so you've heard from sax

01:36:44.160 | right are you a cialis or a viagra guy sax what's going on here

01:36:48.960 | or both so cialis just seems better value for money wait what are those never heard of them

01:36:55.520 | it's like what is that never heard of them he's turning red actually so if you go to costplusdrugs.com

01:37:01.840 | and you put into dillafil when it comes up we show your our actual cost and then we mark it up by 15

01:37:08.720 | and if you buy it via mail order then we add five dollars for a pharmacy fee to review everything and

01:37:14.320 | five dollars for shipping and handling the net result of that is you guys have a general idea of

01:37:19.440 | what the price is now from now all the ads you can buy a 90 pack of todilafil for about nine dollars

01:37:26.320 | and 90 cents plus shipping and handling so for less than the price of a bag of m&ms you could put up a

01:37:31.920 | little cup or jar next to your bed of either m&ms what is the name of this website

01:37:41.920 | you might be right back nine dollars for 90 days right we're like let's go for your mom

01:37:47.280 | that seems free it's an incredible deal so but you apply that to the 2500 drugs that we have

01:37:53.920 | and now all of a sudden you see what's wrong with these things called pharmacy benefit managers

01:37:58.880 | and the problem of an industry that's opaque and i'll give you another example

01:38:02.480 | there are drugs that are called specialty generics and the only thing special about them they're actually

01:38:07.440 | just pills is that they're they were traditionally more expensive so there's a drug um called imatinib

01:38:13.360 | which is a chemotherapy drug if you just walk into um a cvs as an example and i hate a big big pharmacy

01:38:21.840 | um and just you have your cash payer or a high deductible payer and you just needed it they'll

01:38:26.800 | charge you anywhere from 200 to 2 000 you have no idea what you're going to pay if you get it from cost

01:38:32.000 | plus drugs depending on the volume the number and the strength it might be 21 to 30 dollars

01:38:36.480 | there's another drug droxidopa one of my buddies came to me and said i'm losing my insurance they

01:38:41.200 | want to charge me um the pharmacy wants to charge me ten thousand dollars a quarter for this medication

01:38:45.920 | called droxidopa all right landon let me check then initially it was 64 a month now it's in the 20

01:38:51.840 | per month because as our cost goes down we pass it on and that's just changed the industry because think

01:38:57.760 | about what happens when you get a prescription what's the pushback but mark i mean what is the

01:39:02.160 | pushback you get because that's that's none count kids counter to the trend right so is it just

01:39:08.160 | infinite growth or how does the industry respond when you create that price differential so it's the

01:39:14.080 | innovators dilemma they can't just give up all of this margin they so most of the business of pharmacy

01:39:21.040 | benefit manage not most so a big chunk of the businesses comes from corporate um from corporations right

01:39:26.400 | and self-insured companies and they go to them and they put together the thing called the formulary

01:39:31.520 | which is all the drugs right that's available to them and they say we're going to price this so that

01:39:37.040 | we get rebates and we'll pass on the rebates we get from the manufacturers to you now they say they're

01:39:42.080 | going to pass on 100 of that rebate they don't they create all these subsidiaries and everything that

01:39:46.880 | skim 10 or whatever off the top but they know that they can continue working with these companies

01:39:52.240 | because the core competency of a ceo is not to know their health care costs and literally for

01:39:57.360 | any ceos that are out there audit your pbm contract audit it right now i promise you that that pbm is

01:40:05.280 | going to tell you you don't need to audit and then you can say we want to add cost plus drugs to our

01:40:10.560 | pharmacy supply contract and they're going to say no you're not allowed to do it because they know our

01:40:16.000 | prices are so much lower that is disrupting their industry are you doing this as like a for-profit

01:40:21.680 | business are you losing money on this and doing it just to help society what's your plan here

01:40:26.560 | right now um i'm losing money and most of that was because we built a factory a whole

01:40:30.960 | robotics driven factory that manufactures um sterile injectables that are in short supply

01:40:37.840 | so now like with the hurricane you know we're using our robotics to switch over to sterile water of all

01:40:43.200 | things and some other things so that we can manufacture it and get it to them at you know

01:40:47.520 | a reasonable price as opposed to price gouging which kamala has talked often about so you know

01:40:52.960 | because there will be price gouging and in pharmacy and we're here to be an alternative so to answer your

01:40:57.840 | question i've spent a whole a lot of money on these robotics and putting this together but our path is

01:41:04.800 | hockey stick double triple hockey stick and so we're taking business from them and i think the traditional

01:41:10.960 | legacy companies in the insurance did something happen to you or somebody around you that motivated

01:41:17.120 | you to go after the pbms or with just this clinical business analysis of like this just

01:41:21.680 | doesn't make sense and it can be done better so both um what happened was i got an email from

01:41:26.720 | my partner co-founder dr alex oshmiansky and he wanted to create a compounding pharmacy in denver

01:41:32.720 | that made drugs that were in short supply because there's always for whatever reason some generic

01:41:37.840 | drug that is on a shortage list and i'm like you're thinking too small and this was right

01:41:43.120 | around the time that the pharma bro was going to jail and i asked him you know how is it that this

01:41:47.840 | dude buys up a one-year supply of daraprim the drug he bought and just jacks it up and how does

01:41:53.920 | that happen and he goes it just happened i'm like well let me do some homework and dig in and the

01:41:59.200 | reason was obvious the industry was completely opaque the first line in every single pharmacy

01:42:04.400 | contract and healthcare contract for that matter is you're not allowed to talk about it you are

01:42:09.040 | restricted from talking about this to anybody anybody at all so we had a completely opaque market

01:42:15.280 | so we put together the website called costplusdrugs.com but really the smartest thing that we did and it

01:42:20.960 | was unintentional in terms of impact we created a full price list so you can get our 2500 drugs the actual

01:42:28.640 | price list and we release it every week because we're on a roll now where we've had since last a

01:42:34.320 | year ago more than a year ago every weekday we've lowered a price on a drug and so we just put that

01:42:39.280 | out and what's happened as a result is now companies can just get the price list and do comparisons to

01:42:44.720 | approximately what they're paying because their pbm won't tell them exactly what they're paying i got i

01:42:49.120 | have one suggestion for you there mark you can make this a non-profit when you sell the maps you could

01:42:54.320 | donate money to this then like six seven years later you could flip it into a for-profit and take it

01:43:00.240 | public there's like a strategy here this could work out exactly the point and you know sam altman is an

01:43:07.520 | investor no i'm just kidding um and so um so we put out this price list and all of a sudden harvard medical

01:43:15.760 | and vanderbilt and um the all these research institutes took our pricing and compared it to

01:43:22.640 | what medicare was paying for the same drugs and it was like well this is this is what i was going to

01:43:27.520 | ask you because cms is now in power to negotiate yeah and this is sort of maybe ties together with the

01:43:33.840 | governmental efficiency and just do the obvious right thing but shouldn't they just work with you as

01:43:39.760 | an example and and why don't they they are and it's just starting they are right so here's again i can't

01:43:47.440 | speak for her to say what she's going to do but here was the conversation i've had with her team when

01:43:53.520 | it comes to reducing out-of-pocket costs to deal with inflation what i have told them is one key area

01:44:01.680 | that in fact most families at some level nobody dies healthy is the cost of healthcare and pharmaceuticals

01:44:07.760 | and by working by requiring transparency in all contracts signed by anybody anywhere in terms

01:44:14.080 | of pricing you are going to see the same impact on across the board pricing of a decrease of 30 40

01:44:20.160 | and so all that is going to reduce out-of-pocket spending for everybody reduce government spending

01:44:26.880 | for everybody and have a net positive impact they see that and have you had the had that conversation

01:44:32.640 | with the republicans as well so that no i mean it seems it makes sense for everybody i had the

01:44:37.280 | converse a similar conversation like as i mentioned you in the white house when i went there um and it

01:44:42.160 | just didn't resonate boys any any final questions for mark here as we uh not gonna ask me about elon

01:44:46.880 | and why i troll elon and any of that good stuff i mean i want to know about are you investing in ai

01:44:52.560 | technology where are you investing in the stack how do you think about that are you an active venture

01:44:57.600 | investor mark i mean i know we've obviously done some stuff together but i'm curious like how how you look at

01:45:01.840 | stuff so now i've kind of slowed down i invested in grok right with schmatz right schmatz yeah let's

01:45:06.720 | go right and he can tell you all the reasons i think we all i think we all have a piece of that now

01:45:10.720 | okay well good so you guys know the whole story right and so i think that that's great picks and

01:45:14.800 | shovels i think are important i think the problem and this happens with all new technologies is we're

01:45:19.680 | seeing the gold rush right now where everybody calls everything ai particularly with agents and i think

01:45:26.160 | you can put all these vertical agents together to do all these different things but agents are

01:45:30.960 | just going to be a feature not a product because inherently in ai as it advances and gets smarter

01:45:36.800 | then it's going to be able to create its own agents for its users and go forward from there so

01:45:41.920 | i've been really hesitant now because you know you're not going to invest in the foundational models

01:45:47.920 | i mean through a fund i have part of um open ai but and some others but it's that's just so

01:45:54.240 | expensive you don't know who the winners are going to be but yet everything that everything that happens

01:45:59.360 | is going to be a derivative of what's your what's your business intuition tell you about that actually

01:46:03.360 | so you have this crazy capital race between closed and open how do you think that plays out

01:46:08.720 | i think there are going to be um tens of millions of models everybody's going to have a model your kids

01:46:16.320 | are going to have models you know their little um invisible friend is going to be a model that's in a

01:46:21.840 | you know a teddy bear um that they grow up with so there's going to be an unlimited number of models

01:46:26.720 | but we don't know who the winners are going to be to host those models i have no idea and if you

01:46:33.360 | go back over the history of technology it's that's always the case everybody there's always a race to

01:46:39.600 | be the winner for the foundation whether it was broadband whether it was networking whether it was

01:46:43.840 | whatever it's streaming and everybody battles it out and so it's okay and i for me now i'm just like

01:46:50.240 | let me just wait let me just there's a you think there's going to be or a chance at job displacement

01:46:56.000 | what do you think of like this uh universal basic income cataclysm i think it's the exact opposite okay

01:47:01.680 | so i think that in order to train a model you need access to information and the internet ain't what it

01:47:10.800 | used to be in terms of being a source of information right and so ip is becoming more valuable you're not i think

01:47:17.680 | everybody by this time expected um all the foundational models to have all this health care information

01:47:23.920 | but if i'm mayo clinic i'm not giving microsoft or google or open ai my ip because that's what brands me

01:47:32.080 | and so there's going to be a lot of money available there and i think um that there that has got to be a

01:47:39.600 | way to there's got to be a way to figure that out right first how does ip work and how is it distributed

01:47:45.680 | and then how are we using it just in general we really don't know how we're going to implement it

01:47:51.600 | or use it or what the interface is going to be and all that will be figured out by some kid somewhere

01:47:56.080 | so maybe just to wrap mark so these these next 10 or 15 years is it about doubling down on these

01:48:00.800 | current things making cost plus thing huge like harvesting essentially or are you going to do new

01:48:07.440 | things or there's just the bar getting you know when i'm gone i wanted to say he did it

01:48:13.520 | it was expensive when we were sick it ain't expensive no more and to me that's that's the

01:48:19.520 | ultimate mission now it's fun to learn ai and you know build models and do all that stuff right

01:48:25.360 | um but when it's all said and done to me that's where you want to mark that's what let me let me

01:48:30.960 | ask you a final final question that's great uh we've uh you've done a reality show just retired from

01:48:36.640 | that cashed out of three quarters of the mavericks check did that um helping people with uh this cost

01:48:45.120 | plus drugs and and saving people money it's a pretty noble mission kind of adds up to you're going to

01:48:50.880 | run for president and no no there's no no why not it would be a great thing to do you've checked off

01:48:55.760 | all the boxes why wouldn't you old now too old now right he's not what he's talking about 20 years

01:49:00.480 | younger than trump and biden is wrong i changed i'm a sock puppet in my spare time i changed it

01:49:05.920 | four years from now eight years from now would you would you even consider it or if you were going to

01:49:09.760 | consider it yeah right of our era right yeah how would you process making that decision my kids hated

01:49:15.440 | the idea my wife hated the idea they want you know it's hard enough for them to have a normal life

01:49:20.000 | as it is um and that just takes it to a whole nother plus you'd have to run as a republican

01:49:25.120 | because democrats hate billionaires like you no actually bloomberg right you saw it in bloomberg

01:49:30.000 | yeah but that's a hundred million dollars made it to the first question of the first debate boom

01:49:34.240 | elizabeth warren knocked him out but let me just tell you this and we don't have to talk more about

01:49:38.160 | politics parties don't exist anymore they don't they're there's fundraising vehicles and they have

01:49:45.120 | procedures in place but this is donald trump he took over the republican party they do what he says

01:49:51.280 | and kamala harris has learned from donald trump give him credit she has learned what worked for him

01:49:56.320 | they're not stupid she has learned that she has got to be that personality that takes over and they have

01:50:01.600 | got to do what she says you haven't heard a word from bernie or elizabeth warren and that's not

01:50:06.960 | unintentional she is doing it her way now whether or not you agree what she's doing or her approach to win

01:50:12.880 | everybody can argue and that's what makes a market but there are no political parties anymore and the

01:50:17.040 | idea of the the ideology of a party on the democratic side is no more in place than on the republican side

01:50:23.760 | all right so uh with that my nicks got a shot this year what do you think yeah i thought the trade was

01:50:29.200 | great i thought that was great yeah it's great i think that's great i mean he's a little weak on the

01:50:35.600 | defense but he's you know but with kp right that's what they're doing how do they match up with boston

01:50:40.720 | and so kp and cat match up and that's why we got a shot you're saying there's a chance yeah i think

01:50:45.840 | my nicks might get there i'm saying you and jim carrey have a lot in common there's a chance all

01:50:50.560 | right everybody this has been another amazing episode thank you this is fun thanks guys come back

01:50:56.240 | anytime mark and we'll see you all next time bye bye thanks guys that was awesome they'll give you

01:51:00.240 | instructions and i'll upload and i'll see you at a game soon yeah you guys are awesome cheers and i don't mind

01:51:06.320 | arguing david i love to argue this stuff right i know i know look i give you credit you're fun to

01:51:10.640 | talk with and argue with and you obviously don't take it personally and i appreciate that and uh yeah

01:51:16.880 | i give you credit for having fun with it i know too many depressed billionaires so yeah i give you i

01:51:22.160 | give you a lot of credit yeah i i don't get that but you know what if you were if you were when you

01:51:26.240 | were poor you're up when you're rich right and it just doesn't change anything i was hoping you

01:51:31.440 | we talked about elon well we could still go there where's jake we can still go there you can ask the

01:51:36.320 | question if you want all right two of my besties oh has 25 years you and elon is this uh you guys

01:51:44.320 | just uh goofing on each other you got an issue with elon that's sincere or is it just playful fun trolling

01:51:51.120 | so two things one as an entrepreneur elon's like the of the of the right yeah there's i'm a huge fan

01:51:59.360 | what he's been able to accomplish is insane it's incredible i would never diminish anything he's

01:52:05.040 | done as an entrepreneur as a twitter user he's a troll and i mean he just trolls to troll to troll

01:52:13.360 | and every good troll deserves a foil right somebody to troll back and it's just so easy and so much fun

01:52:20.640 | um now you know i get some of the underlying principles i think at least in my mind like when

01:52:25.120 | he talks about what do you think about the first amendment principle that he's doing here of like

01:52:28.640 | radically changing twitter from like it's pretty controlled to hey anything goes i think that's

01:52:36.000 | almost anything i think that's a fear of losing um users so i think that within the conservative

01:52:44.000 | community they are more joiners and heavier um social media users participants yeah yeah participants so

01:52:52.400 | they they subscribe to more things they listen to more podcasts they're more active and i think he

01:52:58.960 | recognized that and that was a fundamental underpinning of why he kind of connected to them on the free

01:53:06.960 | speech thing because he still has his limits obviously it's his platform and what he doesn't want

01:53:12.160 | doesn't get shown so i think that's why and i can't blame him um i wish he would call me i'd help him on on

01:53:18.320 | on his his revenue and all that and then i think on the immigration side here's my theory you guys can

01:53:24.880 | tell me if you agree or disagree i don't think he's anti-immigration like he says you know anti-illegal

01:53:31.840 | immigration um where anybody who's in the country should be deported i think as an immigrant himself and

01:53:38.480 | i'm second generation you guys are you know immigrants at some level we all are but i think as an immigrant

01:53:44.080 | he thinks that the number of illegal immigrants in this country and the hate that's pushed towards them

01:53:51.440 | carries over to legal immigrants including himself and i think he by he believes that by diminishing

01:54:01.040 | the illegal or the non-citizens in this country and asking for their removal it improves the standing of

01:54:08.400 | the legal immigrants including himself and so that's kind of my theory on on both of those things

01:54:14.160 | interesting yeah it's uh it's certainly a different place i don't think you need much of a theory to

01:54:20.560 | explain elon's use because he's just so transparent about what he believes i truly believe that his core

01:54:26.240 | conviction and the reason he bought twitter x is because he wanted to unlock it as a free speech

01:54:32.480 | platform yeah i don't i don't think so okay well i don't know how much more money he can lose

01:54:37.440 | in pursuit of that but let's see here's why here's why i disagree you don't take other people's money to

01:54:42.480 | do that if he put i don't think he knew he didn't know that he would get boycotted by all these

01:54:48.240 | advertisements yeah but he knew he knew that i think he went in open eyes carried the sink in the door

01:54:55.680 | to run it with some improvements operationally which he did a great job of and to and taking

01:55:01.760 | out a huge amount of the cost structure which he did but jason and i were there on the first day the

01:55:05.760 | first day he took over there was an organized boycott of advertisers they called him anti-semitic

01:55:11.200 | which is ridiculous before he even had a chance to do one thing about that site so i've heard from

01:55:17.280 | a lot of those folks um and it's not so much look when you talk about free speech free speech applies

01:55:25.280 | to advertisers as well they get to associate with whoever they want to no matter what so sure so

01:55:30.880 | there there are um unless there's a unless there's a uh a collusive effort going on to sort of organize

01:55:37.600 | no and i get that organization just resolved immediately so there weren't but look i could

01:55:42.240 | from my own self right i don't understand why you won't give him credit for believing in free speech

01:55:46.320 | that's clearly i don't have no problem with free speech look i've always said people like get rid

01:55:51.120 | of the anti-semitic people you get anti-semitic tropes i get you know zillions of anti-semitic

01:55:56.000 | tropes you know in my in my replies just they're non-stop i mean i'm not white you know my grandparents

01:56:02.800 | changed their name to from chabinski to cuban not even intentionally and so it's always your real name

01:56:07.680 | is chabinski white there's just the hate there is insane and my attitude has always been i want to know

01:56:12.560 | who the morons are i have no problem with them still being allowed on the platform but the trade-off

01:56:18.880 | is for advertisers they don't want to be associated with that there is no upside for being on twitter

01:56:25.360 | right now or excellent right now and you add to that the porn kids 13 years old can go on that site

01:56:31.920 | and you can find any insane thing you want on x right now and that also is a problem for advertisers

01:56:40.080 | that's part of free speech but you got to pay the bill when you're willing to accept that i don't think

01:56:45.680 | he realized just how deep users will go in order to use their free speech and i think that really

01:56:52.000 | surprised him and so that's why i don't think that he bought it specifically for free speech because i

01:56:57.440 | think he's always one of the things i really admire i don't know i mean he said he said before he bought

01:57:02.720 | it that he was going to open it up as a free speech platform and this is why hold on this is why the

01:57:07.040 | left immediately started boycotting him before he even changed one policy jake out help me out you were

01:57:12.640 | there well i know for a fact this was a free speech mission for him i do think you know multiple

01:57:20.000 | things can be true mark you are correct that if you have spicy content advertisers don't want anything

01:57:26.480 | to do with it and they have choices and it's also one of the smaller platforms so they have choices

01:57:30.480 | that have more scale so that makes it even easier and it's also true that they're boycotting him

01:57:35.360 | and specifically targeting but all these things are happening at the same time that's fair and i and i

01:57:39.840 | think you know when you look at what he's done there we'll look at it historically as this place

01:57:46.160 | that was very controlled and clean and owned by the press and the elites became this chaotic thing but

01:57:54.880 | also ultimately the one place where at scale you cannot be cancelled and you know if you look at

01:58:01.360 | cancellation as a concept the number one place to get cancelled was twitter you said something even

01:58:06.960 | slightly off man they came down on you they destroyed you and that now that we've gotten rid of cancel

01:58:12.000 | culture and people can say what they believe and people can make them i don't know why it's necessary

01:58:17.200 | to find you think i don't know let me just finish the thought i do think that that will be looked at

01:58:21.600 | as a beautiful thing that he gave to society as a gift and it will be looked at as a really challenged

01:58:26.240 | business because it was an ad business that lost its advertising base and apple and disney have choices i don't see the

01:58:32.960 | need here to look past or to look for an ulterior motive and what elon's doing elon believes in

01:58:39.440 | free speech it's very clear he's run the platform that way and it's costing money so what else could

01:58:45.360 | the motivation be except his principles obviously but he was also addicted to it i can tell you that

01:58:50.160 | as the person who got him i know but that's not that's not why he's running as a free speech let me give you my

01:58:56.640 | counter to that you know him better than i do why are we even having this debate who cares i mean i

01:59:00.960 | know i'm just curious yeah he's running as a free speech platform yeah and that's fine obviously it's

01:59:06.160 | his choice that that's free speech by definition actually to me this debate is is kind of pointless

01:59:11.520 | but let's let's talk about actually the the issue there's a new story this week where open

01:59:16.320 | ai just raised was a 6 billion yeah 150 valuation um they originally started that enterprise with 50

01:59:26.240 | million or so from elon it was a non-profit then they became a for-profit now there's a report saying

01:59:33.360 | that they're telling investors in this round that they can't invest in any other ai companies so they're

01:59:39.200 | acting like i mean they've gone from non-profit philanthropy to piranha for-profit company it's pretty

01:59:45.760 | sharp elbow sam yeah sharp elbow sam said he wasn't going to take compensation now he's getting

01:59:50.560 | compensation yep 10 billion i mean what do you think about this i mean look it's their company they get

01:59:56.800 | to do what they want period of false pretenses i mean if they don't but but don't invest i mean

02:00:02.800 | they shouldn't invest he gave them a donation let me which leads to something i want to say very

02:00:07.840 | positive about elon put aside his genius in coming up and running these companies the one thing i i respect

02:00:15.200 | the most about elon musk and he does more than anybody i've ever seen and that is he goes all in

02:00:21.760 | he doesn't just you know he takes every cent he has and he believes in it and he goes all

02:00:28.320 | mother in he never hedges his bet at all until twitter right that's why i say you know he brought in

02:00:36.560 | investors you know he brought investors to tesla and everything but initially he went all in himself

02:00:41.280 | you know i think with twitter i think he was kind of surprised but going back to open ai

02:00:45.680 | i don't i wouldn't do business with people like that and there are people who just look for what

02:00:51.760 | they think is the next big thing and i certainly could have given them money didn't give them money

02:00:56.880 | i said one of our funds that i'm in gate did give them money originally didn't give them money another

02:01:01.280 | time to me that's just wrong and that catches up to you when people over investors and whatever it

02:01:07.920 | always comes back karma's a in business too now you know gemini with google i've done a lot of stuff with

02:01:14.800 | them notebook is insanely good gemini 1.5 is insanely good meta as open source and what they're doing is

02:01:22.320 | getting better and better there is no you know it there's nothing that says that open ai is going to

02:01:28.480 | win nothing at all and so i don't feel bad about what they're doing and to me it tells me they're more

02:01:36.080 | scared than anything by trying to restrict what people are doing yep that's your perspective it says

02:01:42.560 | it's more a reflection of sam than anything else is right is what you're saying yep well i mean that

02:01:49.040 | would be reflected in the fact that so many people who are the co-founders have left yeah um that that's

02:01:54.480 | a really big red flag this thing is going to change the world and every all the co-founders leave i heard

02:01:59.840 | 40 of the 44 co-founders left yeah with the original employees yeah i mean i don't know if that's true

02:02:04.560 | but that's bonkers and then if you well i mean if you also think about this business chamath and

02:02:09.200 | where it's headed sorry there were three there were 44 co-founders around the donald trump cabinet

02:02:14.480 | members thing yeah yeah no but i mean if you if you we we did a joke about it last week but if

02:02:20.720 | you just look at the the competition set that they're up against they're losing 5 billion a year

02:02:26.080 | they're making three and a half they put this thing at 150 billion it's 40 times 50 times revenue

02:02:32.000 | to fill in that valuation on price to sales basis you know it's kind of crazy here's the one thing

02:02:37.760 | that i'll say and i think mark said this in a different way but i'll just i don't think you can

02:02:43.520 | underestimate how companies like google microsoft facebook apple amazon will react when they feel cornered

02:02:55.200 | and i think in in the last 20 or 25 years what you've seen is those companies when their backs

02:03:00.080 | are against the wall they use money they're sharp elbowed but the consistent thing is they've won and

02:03:05.840 | so the real question is do people look at the chart of the users because typically what happens is it's

02:03:11.520 | users what tilts these companies when something some upstart you remember when snapchat was about to

02:03:17.360 | explode yeah there was a decision we're going to decapitate this company facebook effectively did that

02:03:22.560 | they relegated it to zynga yep zynga there's many examples so the real question is when they see that

02:03:29.120 | this app is going to be at three or five hundred million mal and they appear on some list where

02:03:35.680 | they're bigger than i don't know pick your favorite app inside of meta ever yeah ever yeah will they

02:03:41.760 | freak out and if they do freak out what do they do oh i can tell you they're freaking right now oh yeah

02:03:46.080 | it's an ex it's an existential risk to them right and the craze i mean look what microsoft did they

02:03:51.600 | bought three mile island the nuclear reactor they bought it everybody is looking for the angle and

02:03:59.760 | the crazy it's really good yes there used to be moore's law that everything followed right the price

02:04:04.560 | performance curve always went like this you know and power goes up now because you don't know you don't

02:04:10.400 | know what you don't know and what you need to do next that's part of the challenge that um elon has

02:04:15.360 | with tesla in terms of full service driving you don't know what you need to do next to get there to

02:04:20.400 | solve every problem do you have a tesla mark i do and i do also i also have a kia ev i have a tesla ev

02:04:26.880 | and i have a kia ev do you use the fsd and if so how is it what i have but i stopped using it just

02:04:32.720 | because it terrified me um because it doesn't know what adversarial things that doesn't know

02:04:39.680 | because you know you know anything that's adversarial that something that has to train

02:04:44.000 | on something that's seen and it's not smart enough to um figure out what it hasn't seen and whether or

02:04:48.800 | not it's a risk and i've said this before my my um four-year-old mini australian shepherd i can put it

02:04:56.080 | in a risky situation to cross the street and trust it'll get across the street no matter what it is it

02:05:02.080 | doesn't have to be pre-trained you can't do that with um full service driving yet and so until that

02:05:08.320 | gets to where it needs to be where adversarial issues aren't an issue i'm not going to fully

02:05:13.200 | trust it i have the 12. all right guys i gotta i gotta go mark thank you you've been really fun to

02:05:19.040 | talk to so good talking to you this has been overtime with the all-in podcast with mark cuban

02:05:23.920 | we'll see you all next time you got it guys thanks so much love you boys

02:05:26.960 | we'll let your winners ride rain man david sacks

02:05:33.600 | and it said we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it

02:05:41.040 | west i'm queen of kinoa i'm going all in

02:05:44.160 | let your winners ride what what your winners ride

02:05:47.280 | let your winners ride besties are gone

02:05:50.640 | gold 13th that is my uh dog taking a listen your driveway

02:05:54.240 | oh man

02:05:59.920 | we should all just get a room and just have it one big huge orgy because they're all just useless

02:06:03.840 | it's like this like sexual tension but they just need to release somehow

02:06:07.920 | what you're the beat what you're the beat we need to get mercies are back i'm going all in

02:06:25.840 | you

02:06:26.340 | Thank you.

In conversation with Mark Cuban

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