all right everybody welcome to the number one podcast in the world here we are on the all in podcast we have a fifth bestie with us today joining david freeber chamath piha patia david sachs and myself is the one and the only mark cuban how you doing buddy what's up guys i'm doing great thanks for having me on of course of course thank you i've been practicing my virtue signaling so i'm ready all right let's go i think we're gonna have twice the virtue signaling as normal on this episode double the virtue i don't virtue signal i'll say you to anybody you have gotten very vocal about politics during this cycle and you seem to be i don't know if it's official you know speaking on behalf of the kamala ticket so why why are you this active what is the um reason that you've decided to get this active during this election because i'm proud to be an american that's exactly why i mean you know we all make choices and think what's best for the country and show our patriotism in different ways and you know i'm not a democrat i'm not a republican i'm an independent through and through oh my god like jacal he's an independent too there we go and why is it that all the democrats are afraid to call themselves democrats well look i've said this many many times if if it wasn't donald trump running it was a non-maga candidate particularly if it was joe biden still i'd vote republican i voted republican before if it was a non-maga candidate versus kamala harris it would be you know let's look at the policies let's look at the character of the people involved and let's make a decision it's it's just donald trump is not a republican republicans are donald trump you know the republican party is now the family business for donald trump and to me i just think kamala harris is a better choice for the country on a percentage basis how often have you voted just a level set democrat versus republican would you say out of 10 elections presidential probably i voted for george w twice then i voted for um obama twice and then i voted for um clinton and biden but before that i voted for um ross perot jr my first vote was for a guy named um something john anderson so i mean i literally worked on ross perot jr's campaign way back when tell us about that that's fascinating he got 19 of the vote as an independent candidate yeah i was living out in la and this was 92 and this is when computers were relatively new i sold my company and i was taking acting classes and just living by manhattan beach and just loving life and you know being from texas i knew people there and they were like look we need somebody who understands pcs and computers and software can you help us and i was like definitely um i mean i wasn't to the point where i was involved in his decisions but i actually hadn't met him um my first company was a company called microsolutions where we did systems integrations local and wide area network i wrote software for you know single multi-user app wide area network apps and we literally helped pro systems um get into local and wide area networking and so you know one of my favorite stories from back then is you know i'm terrified i'm a 26 year old kid i'm in dallas i'm going into pro systems i get to meet ross perot senior the man right and i'm walking through him and he's got the original the the model for the um no he had the original magna carta one of like the 13 magna cartas and he had the original um model for the iwo jima um statue right with the flag up and everything and i'm just terrified i'm going to trip and just wipe out american history and i walk up to him and i said hi mr cuban you know reverse that yeah you know i was so nervous um and he like made fun of it and you know got to be friends and did a lot of business helped those guys a lot i made them a lot of money they made me a lot of money did you have any more interactions with them when you were on the campaign did you get a sense of no i did not no i was just a little plebe just trying to do a little plebe stuff in la i didn't know that you took acting classes that's interesting did you want to be an actor or before a businessman or what no no no this was after i sold micro solutions i bought a lifetime pass on american airlines moved to la got a place right in manhattan beach um right on the beach get two flight attendants as roommates and i was just loving life and i was like how else can i meet women i'm going to take acting classes and it was like one of the best things i've one of the best things i've ever done because you know being a business guy you it's always right brain right brain right brain and acting is like don't think just be don't think just be just let it go so it was a totally different experience and that's why you see me do all these cameos and stuff um because i like to do it because it's the one place where you just have to completely let go and it's a completely different approach to life so you know little backstory yeah yeah you got a good character arc on entourage i think that was probably the best one seven episodes plus the movie yeah yeah yeah yeah that was uh pretty memorable so uh sax lead us off here i don't know if you've been following mark cuban on social media at all or if you guys interact i can't resist asking so is your um is your acting as a surrogate for kamala is that acting too or absolutely not hey oh wow we may go live we may go low we go hi no no obviously i truly believe in it and look it's always relative it's always relative to the other candidate um and so obviously as you guys know i'm not a big fan of donald trump i gave him a shot eight years ago it didn't work out okay wait wait could we can we get into this because i you obviously have like a love-hate relationship with trump going back 20 something years so let's just go through the the um the timeline here i'm just very curious i don't hate the guy at all if he was running for president and we all got together and you know just shot the like we are now he's a blast he's fun to talk to you know he's got charisma he's got personality he's easy to like i mean you know he's used to schmoozing he's he's one of the world's best schmoozers and so he's easy to get along with it's not personal but that doesn't mean like you guys with each other it doesn't mean you can't you know as different things happen over time you can't go back and forth and you know he did the same thing so the whole history of it was back um right when um we went public at broadcast.com no right after we announced the sale in 2000 um was it 2000 yeah after we announced the sale in january 2000 he threw a super bowl party at mar-a-lago and one of my buddies um who um knew him invited me and i was like cool i'll go mar-a-lago hadn't seen it donald trump maybe i'll meet him and so you know you guys have seen mar-a-lago in a beautiful pool beautiful view there's a brand up there and he had like a bunch of um hooters and um what's the suntan lotion that always had girls whatever oh tropicana tropic no yeah but sun tropics one of those right yeah and so they were all dressed in orange and they were walking around and it was just like a big deal and it was funny as hell and so not that that's a bad thing it was actually kind of entertaining and um so he comes up to me and i'm with the um vp of visa my buddy and jerry yang i think it was maybe it wasn't jerry but um co-founder of yahoo yeah co-founder of yahoo and um he was like hey guys nice to meet you and i'm like hey i'm mark donald da da da and he just you know not to be mean just in a flipping way he was like hey someday you'll be able to sit up there with the rich people pointing to the veranda and walked away and i'm like okay fine you know whatever and so um then um not long after that through my friend he got back in touch with me and you know this is the early days of the internet early 2000s and um still i guess to still 2000 and um i get an invitation to go to um his office in trump towers and i'm like this is cool of course and you know he wants to talk to me about business and i'm like you know what donald i'll help you all i can he you know he's getting donald trump.com and he wants to sell tchotchkes and merchandise i guess some things never change um and so you know so i'm in there trying to tell him about what you can and can't sell online and what works and that was all fine and good met avanka it was all really cool but the one thing that left with me if you've ever been or seen pictures of his office every inch of his office is covered with pictures of him every single inch of the office like meeting celebrities right stuff like that yeah yeah or you know whatever um covers he was on and just whatever right and i just remember walking through there and afterwards you know it was it was a nice meeting and we had some follow-up calls and everything but it never went anywhere in terms of the online stuff but i just remember thinking to myself if i ever become you know visible or famous you know to that level don't let me get so caught up in just having pictures of myself and you know i'd had conversations with my buddies about it just like you know you guys would and so then in 2004 um i got a chance to do a show called the benefactor abc called me and said okay wait let's show this we have this uh this was got tweeted so so so this is after we got canceled you did oppo research sex you got oppo research this is all on twitter every this is all on on x people try to with me on on twitter they throw this so so anyway so when i got the gig um he was like congratulations good luck and everything i was like thank you and whatever and then when i got canceled he sent me that letter basically saying you suck and so well he was he was dancing on the graveyard show but so you're saying you didn't have beef with him before that letter no it was not a beef no yeah it was not a beef but it was just like that's what it was and so it was just like okay whatever and um okay but then when he ran in 2016 you were supportive can we show that let's show that there's more in between there's a lot more in between okay okay so that's 2004 2007 um eric reaches out to me and goes hey there's no hard feelings with my dad or anything i'm like no i don't care he goes we're working with um these russian mma fighters this guy named fedor emilyenko who was like one of the best ever at that point in time and josh barrett and kind of the irony of all this is we were competing with dana dana white and the ufc in some respects because a lot of fighters felt like they weren't getting paid enough there was no health care there was no nothing right and so i had a tv network we had started the first all high definition tv network called hd net back in 2000 back when tvs cost twenty thousand dollars and everybody thought we were idiots but slowly but surely it was taking off and so they came to me and said we'd like to put um we're partnering with these guys who are putting on this mma fight um with fedor and josh barrett and some other folks and we'd like to broadcast it on on hd net because we had a show called um this week in mma so we were promoting we had fights that we were already putting on every friday night so it actually was a good fit so you'll see pictures of me sitting with them and actually and i couldn't find it i was so pissed because i was going to with him some more um what he said in the end what you know during the time we were sitting at that podium was everything mark cuban touches turns to gold and so i was like that would have been so great to have out there and so and anyway so we were friends again and so it's 2007 and we're friends and nothing happens between then until whenever he started going crazy on twitter and um all the obama stuff and everything and the birth certificate and the birth birth birth stuff so he's on twitter and he started with me like saying that so let me just preface this by saying i golfed once in my life in 1989 and i hated it so bad i was throwing clubs because i'm one of those really super competitive guys i'm like never again but i went and worked um i auctioned off myself to be a caddy at a golf tournament that he also was at but he starts tweeting that i saw mark cuban and he swings like your girl and this and that his swing is like your girl like nobody saw me swing because i don't golf and so i started back with him and so we went back and forth on twitter for years for years and then he comes down the um escalator in 2015 and i'm like all right this guy's got no chance to win um but i think it's great because i don't like traditional politicians i'm not you know there's nothing about me that thinks that the way we do politics or the way the government is run is a good thing not at all i mean i my heart is libertarian but i realize you can't libertarians are not problem solvers or ideologues you know like you look at rand paul everything's only one way he doesn't try to solve problems so anyways um i digress so he comes down i'm like that's cool right he doesn't have a chance to win but um i'm like he's the best thing ever you know you know how you know i forget where i was but i was like he's the best thing that ever happened to politics he's not a politician he's not going to be a stepford candidate i may not agree with his positions but you know just the fact that he's not a politician is a good thing and so from there he called me and we talked a lot probably 10 to 15 times on the phone he would call me you know and he tweeted one time mark cuban was trying to come i never had a number there was no way for me to call him right he would you know and you know the way he emails he refuses to send an email because he doesn't want any proof of anything he's done right and so you know he would write it up like you had one of those pictures so bring up the one on the cnn where he says what happened so right there cnn nasty what happened see see what he does there his email he writes on a piece of paper and then someone scans it and sends it as an image via email and so what happened just so the audience can understand so the the email is from you to him saying tell the boss i said congrats on his sweep and then and then his assistant printed it out and then wrote back to you and like this is one of many emails that we went back and forth on this door but just to be just as a weird point he literally prints out his emails writes on them has them scanned in and sent as an image to you mark wow saw you on cnn nasty what how did he send this to you he mailed this to you or what he mailed it in image he doesn't use email i mean the guy no no his assistant emailed it back right as so he writes on the piece system prints it out he reads it hilarious he writes on it she scans it she scans the it sends the image to me officially the big question there but you can't just let that slide why do you think he does that is this a different generation no at least that's my interpretation no absolutely not nope i'm with mark he don't want paper trails or anything because he's doing so much shady stuff man guys i think you're reaching there obviously there's a paper trail if he writes if he writes on a piece of paper if i write right now on a post-it note scan and email to you there's a paper trail no no you can't search for it and it's not his you know yes to your point he's saying i'm just telling you he won't send emails at all he doesn't want his assistant created an electronic record what's the difference you have to ask him on that but he said it's a generational thing this is my interpretation i think it's a generation out loud david he has literally said it out loud that he doesn't want a paper trail but anyway so let's go back so so now we're talking back and forth and we're having legit conversations i remember asking him you know you realize as president you're going to have to make decisions where people can die and he really wouldn't respond yeah i get it i get it i'm like donald you don't have a ground game what are you going to do how are you going to get through this beat him yeah i got the evangelicals doing all that i'm not worried about it i'm like donald you know and we would i would bring up things about there was this one thing where um the fbi used to use this device to break into an iphone and there was a big thing about you know privacy and i tried to engage him on a conversation on it and it's just like i don't know i you know just didn't want to talk about that at all and that would that would happen multiple times where i would try to engage in conversations about some some type of policy and they're just it never got anywhere and there was never a conversation and i said to him i'm saying there's another email where i said donald at some point you have to learn these things you literally have to learn these things in order to be president and he didn't respond to that and that's when i went on cnn and i said basically look i like the guy but he's not learning he doesn't make any effort to learn anything and i think that carries on to this day because you can't look at things he says and say that's really an in-depth response or that's a nuanced response and so that's what i said on cnn and that led to the um image that you you guys posted so that was the falling out that was the falling out yeah or maybe but it wasn't a complete fall just to finish this up you want me to continue so it's not a complete falling out because okay after that he gets elected i sent him a congratulatory message um and i say congrats you know um you know if i can ever help i'm happy to and so when they were starting to look at replacing the aca i was starting to get into health care and being excited about health care and so they invited me to the white house and i spoke to jared i spoke to this woman named brooke rollins i think her name is um and i i spoke to a whole group of people i went to cms and i spoke to the head of the agency i spoke to the head of cms all talking about this thing i created called the 10 plan which is a means tested ability to support anyways um and so they brought me back in and then when the pandemic hit i sent him some ideas on you know backstopping um bank accounts and credit card accounts so everybody doesn't just default and he had minutian call me and then when they had with the pandemic he connected with peter navarro and i worked with him and actually found a company here in it actually outside of fort worth that um i put together with them and i helped that company increase their output and peter navarro worked with them closely and we you know really made a dent in all the ppe issues and you know he invited me to the white house and then i went to the white house one time went into the oval office and there's pictures of me talking and again i tried to explain the health care stuff he just wasn't having any type of in-depth conversation he wanted to tell me about how much money he saved on um on from boeing you know how many billions and this and that and then it was a short conversation and then i was leaving he goes look are you still on that show and he goes i'm like yeah shark tank he goes yeah that's baron's favorite show and then as i'm leaving further he goes wait a minute i really like that suit so you know and and you know he's called me since um now since he left the white house but you know in the you know later in his tenure at the white house and invited me to dinner i mean and so it's not like we left as foes and it's not like i don't like him i just don't think he's the best person to be president i don't think he was a good one let's just stress test that what how would you think about the four years that he was president in hindsight what what would you say was done well what would you say was done poorly just those two things i think the way he dealt with the zeitgeist isn't the right word just the vibe of the country was really really really bad i think the hate that he conveyed i think the fact that what he tweeted negatively you know so companies didn't know what was coming next you know he tweeted negatively about me he can tweeted negatively about other people i thought that was a real bad thing when the blm um protests happened and turned into riots when they went into minnesota he was like when the looting when the looting starts the shooting starts who says that as a president and so we had more people die during riots during his term than than biden by a long shot and i think he misrepresented where he stood in terms of being anti-war if you go back to 2019 um and look at the war in yemen um there were hundreds at least 100 000 people plus died and there was a bipartisan resolution to say we're not selling any more to the saudis we're not selling any more weapons to the saudis and a bipartisan resolution including mark meadows and rand paul and others said you know passed it and it went to his desk and he said we're still going to sell these um munitions and this um these weapons to saudi arabia even though these people continue to die so when we talk about it's you know it's not all that much different than ukraine and in some respects only saudi arabia got the glengarry leads and ukraine got our old stuff and we replaced it and so when he comes out now and says look you know i'm against all wars there were no wars that's bull right the mainstream media and i know well okay so there's two things there so just just on the 2020 riots i don't know how you blame trump for the blm riots of summer of 2020.

i didn't blame him for the riots what i said was how he dealt with it okay i get you don't like the mean tweets i get i totally got me no don't diminish it david don't diminish it as just mean tweets people pay attention what happens and when you are have people whose lives i think i think it's far worse to actually have riots going on in the streets that's what needed to be controlled how many people wanted to hold on he wanted to send in the national guard to minnesota it was actually waltz who rejected the national guard he had no problem and there were plenty of ties between on there were plenty of ties between democratic activists and the blm organizers of those riots time magazine did my story on that i'm not saying he's at fault that the riots happened i understand but i can't believe that you're using the the riots throughout the summer of 2020 as an argument against trump when it was the left no i think what he's saying is the leadership that he shows is of low moral character did he do anything right mark well i'm not done with the wrong stuff okay but wait there's more right let's go back to the the foreign policy for a second trump is correct that he did not start any new wars during his presidency you agree with that right um that no new war started or he didn't start any um he didn't start any he was like the first president in 20 years not to start a new war well he inherited some for sure and inherited syria and afghanistan and he wanted to get out and the generals didn't let him and there wasn't really a war that happened in turkey and then when we got shut down um he didn't no there wasn't really a war i'll agree with that he did that's his argument is that he did not start any new wars has biden started eddie well i would argue that biden provoked the proxy war in ukraine yes i mean you can disagree whether he provoked or not but there's no question the u.s has been deeply involved in a war with russia in ukraine and i'm saying what i'm saying is the corollary that the analogy to that is what happened in yemen and that we had a chance to get out of yemen and reduce the deaths in yemen much like they're talking about getting us out of the out of ukraine now and we had the opportunity to stop selling um weapons but he looked the best i could tell he looked at it as a sales opportunity to sell to mbs all these weapons and he thought that was a positive so a lot of people died and we're still in there today so it's not he had a chance to get us out and he did not so i'm not arguing that he's perfect and biden's perfect and it's tit for tat it just is what it is i'm just saying state making this statement of fact you know and that's it yeah okay well look we did we did support we did support the saudis in their war with with with yemen so wait let me give you the one last thing and then we'll yeah keep going so then i'll go to some positives so the the next thing you can actually trace that yemen war i can't say you actually i'm i'm a little bit hyperbole but i can trace that from that yemen war to the start of inflation and here's how i explain that and so in yemen he did a deal with for his boy in saudi arabia and sent them all the weapons in 2019 fast forward one year and you're in may uh no april let's say of 2020 and you're looking at the price of gas the lowest it's ever been the price of oil just collapsing at one point people were paying you to take their oil and so there was an opportunity he made a decision because there was a situation that came up the oil companies came in and said this price of oil being so low is killing us right we're losing a lot of money we anticipate losing more because with the pandemic now starting demand is dropping like a rock and so he and that was coming from the oil companies and so what he did he said he said okay mbs owes me a favor over in saudi arabia that's the connection and putin's my boy i'm going to go to them and ask them to reduce production now what happens to the price of gas when the largest producers of um largest producers of oil and energy decrease their production the price starts going up and up and up and so you can track the increase in the price of gas and how that impacted the price of goods the entire time that the production from the 10 reduction until they increase it like 300 000 barrels a day for two years what is your argument here you're saying that somehow trump caused the inflation yes and i'm explaining to you i'm getting the mainstream media first of all by the way the the war in yemen started on march 26 2015 according to chat gpt which is under obama no so that started under obama that's fine but he had a chance he was asked to end it by congress he was that he we were sending he was selling 660 billion dollar i don't know the number i can't remember exactly in weapons to saudi arabia and he there was how did the fact that we had nine percent inflation in 2022 so two years after trump lose office how in the world is trump responsible for that and not biden harris so glad you asked that because the mainstream media never talks about this stuff and so she had a little dig there so trump goes in and says we're going to cut the production by 10 percent demand is still relatively low but you know in april may june as people start venturing outside their house until the end of 2020 the end of his term that there's an increase in demand but the increase in demand the increase in production doesn't match the increase in demand they limited as part of this deal that trump put together between um russia and um saudi arabia and um that led to other people in opec plus participating they only increased the production of oil by 300 000 barrels a day which didn't keep up with the amount of demand that was happening that started increasing the price of gas that price of gas continued to increase for the two years this program was in place this program wasn't like let's just cut it for 60 days and go back at it it wasn't let's just do this for 90 days let's just do this during the trump administration no no no no no this deal went before they got it took two years before they got back to pre-pandemic levels of production and so listen to what trump says about drill baby drill why does he say drill baby drill will lead to lower costs because oil and energy costs are part of everything and you know what matches up perfectly what matches up perfectly is that 9.1 percent in 2022 and the day that that agreement ended where mbs and russia limited production that agreement ended it like this if you did your little venn diagram that like and increase production decrease production bam that is the answer to your question so just to summarize what you the argument that you don't like about him is you got to know him like many people do you worked with him on projects and like pence bar matthias tillerson bill barr and mike cohen and the mooch omorosa you realized this person is out for themselves they don't care about the people they work with and you fell out of friendship with him or whatever there's a long list of people who don't who work with him who think he's an idiot and don't like him now you're on that list yeah i mean i don't think he's an idiot i'm not saying that's my position i'm just summarizing it look i don't think it's your position no i haven't worked with one of the greatest sales people ever he's one of the greatest you know um motivators in terms of crowd motivation ever but can i just want to be jr he's roy cone jr that is who he is if you read books about roy cohen everything roy cohen says to do tracing back to the mccarthy hearings in 54 everything roy cohen says to do that is exactly what donald trump does let me i just want to i just want to paint this thing and then i'd like to hear the glass half full version to the extent you have one but basically i just i just want to understand so my understanding was in 2020 what happened was not that saudi arabia and russia were cooperating to cut prices but they got into a fight because it wasn't really it wasn't really saudi but it was opec which includes us yeah versus russia and we initiated against them which they counteracted a price war they didn't get they initiated against so saudi arabia initiated against russia but what but what i'm so what i'm trying to understand is there's a war in yemen right we don't stop the armaments of saudi and i guess what you're saying is that then triggered an opec no no what i'm saying is mbs owed trump one mbs owed trump one so mbs starts the price war with russia one year later and the oil companies come to donald and say look we're getting destroyed demand is dropping they've increased because of this price war between um saudi arabia and russia saudi arabia decides to take it to putin and increases their production significantly so in order to keep their revenues up russia's got to do the same thing meanwhile all the all the demand is dropping because of the pandemic and so donald gets asked by the insurance company the um oil companies to go to mbs and to putin and say we need to stop this price war we need to reduce production and to his credit if you think that's a positive to trump's credit he did it and so by reducing production over a plan of two years and you can go look at the production numbers right and when that stopped by doing that that increased the price of gas the price of oil the price of energy and that was bad for american consumers who utilize gas you you know paid pay for gas for their cars cars really bad for him but he decided to work with his oil company buddies and protect them you can say that's a good decision or bad decision maybe it's strategic we really he really felt they could go out of business and he wasn't willing to give them money to help them but the bottom line was that that matches up exactly to that 9.1 percent that david sachs mentions it also mentions up matches up to okay does he fully support the oil companies over the price of gas and will that influence what he will do as president again so when he says i'll just get out of ukraine depends on who's making the money and where it is when he says i'm going to get people to drill baby drill okay well we already learned a lesson wait wait wait wait sorry okay so look this is very hard to hold on a second this is very hard to fact check in real time because i've never heard this theory before oh well no no we can have a theory on the pod i just have freeberg get involved freeberg hasn't asked a question yet so let me try the point the point is that yeah you know this is like totally novel i don't even think i've heard you make this theory on x before because i was waiting okay so here we go so you're dropping a whole hold on a second hasn't been able to get involved let's have freeberg basically cite this nonsense and i don't get to interrogate it a little bit it's not nonsense david you okay no no but i just wanted to include freeberg in this discussion 40 minutes let me ask a question go chat gpt it go google it go look it up however you want okay what about the fact that biden's first day in office he cancels the keystone pipeline and a bunch of leases he makes it harder to drill in the united states so he reduces the ability for domestic producers to produce you don't think that that would have an impact yeah but it wasn't on the price it wasn't on the price of gas because it's the price of gas is a global phenomenon right the price of oil rather is a global phenomenon it's we we are the largest producer of energy in the world but we're still only about 13 i think it is don't quote me on that but that's that's a range and so the other 87 has more of an impact and even to that there was still an unlimited amount of drilling available on public lands and leases available that weren't fully used now that said i think biden did mistakes did make mistakes okay yeah so wait wait okay guys hold on let's just finish one thing before the other i would just like an answer of what is the good and the bad of donald trump and then what i was going to ask you is what was the good and the bad of biden i just want those sure tomorrow i appreciate guys just just just give me one second can i just ask make one comment i've been here for like 40 minutes um yeah i want to respond to the inflation point mark i you know i just shared two images first was the u.s crude oil production chart and more than half of this oil is exported so you can see the the reduction in production but the the domestic oil production capacity remained high relative to our consumption so u.s consumption if oil was the biggest driver it really would have affected the profits of the exporting companies not necessarily the cost of energy domestically i will however point out that the federal balance sheet the federal reserve's balance sheet swelled during covid from four trillion dollars to eight trillion dollars and as we all know there was significant fiscal stimulus meaning the fed the federal government was the only charge david i just say it was the only cause yeah well i would argue that flooding the world with dollars which is what the federal reserve did because they bought up all the bonds as the federal government started to issue money in lots of different ways caused the supply of dollars to go up which causes the cost of anything that's dollar denominated to grow up and i think many economists would argue and make the case that the fiscal policy and the monetary policy of the federal government and the federal reserve is largely to account and i'm not going to use the word blame but to account for the inflation we saw in the cost of everything from energy to production to labor to assets and so they're not mutually exclusive they're not they're not but there was also significant as we can all acknowledge massive in a dynamical system global supply chains are a dynamical system stuff is made in one place moved to another place when one thing breaks or it slows down it all breaks and we had a massive shortfall agree 100 goods around the world and that was the biggest driver of the inflationary effects that we saw i agree 100 but even if you go back to those the first two charts you put up it matches up with exactly what i said production went down demand went up and the net result was that price of gas went up and price of gases and everything is it the only cost no production went down in everything not just energy but everything and not because of energy but because of a lot of other reasons exactly and then and then we had a whiplash problem where we had over demand relative to the natural and none of the production systems could keep up with demand because of the fiscal stimulus i agree 100 with you all i'm saying you can try to trace it back to maybe it's one percent of the price maybe it's three percent of the price maybe whatever the percentage is i'm not saying it's exclusive but you can trace it back to the decision being made to support the energy companies and say we are going to reduce production rather than just letting the market play out and saying we'll let gas prices stay as low as they are based off of supply and demand now are do i agree with you that supply chain disruption transitory yes of course and fiscal and monetary policy yes stimulating the world economy by pouring a ton of money out that's never happened in history right for sure a hundred percent the question is and proportionality do you think larry summers was wrong when in q1 the first quarter of the biden harris administration larry summers warned that if you pass another two trillion of covid stimulus like they were planning to do that could set off inflation that we were on the brink he said that he did make that declaration again against his own party mark and he said this is the wrong thing as a democrat he said this is the wrong thing to do and they went forward with what they plan to do for various reasons some would argue political some would argue that they thought it was the right thing to do and the effect was precisely as larry had predicted yeah kamala harris cast the tie-breaking vote for that inflation explosion act otherwise known as the american rest otherwise known as the american rescue plan so here's the actually i agree with i agree with friedberg 100 the cause of this massive 20 inflation we've had over biden's four years but that's the secret deal between trump and mbs and like putin's in there somewhere you can dismiss it all you want david just look at the data and look at the numbers and they match up now to freeberg's point the freeberg's point is it the only thing that caused inflation of course not when you spend too much money when you inflate the economy when you have supply chain disruption all those things contribute but we're also not having the conversation to say okay how much of the supply chain disruption contributed to inflation was it three percent of that twenty percent was it five percent was it seven percent was it one percent we don't know it's impossible it's all the supply the supply hold on the supply chain was constrained during covet and it was healing it was getting better and then they pumped all the stimulus and everyone got these just to level set with that let me just let me just let me level set my opinion let's leave the opinion i'm just really curious i just want the high level report card on the last two presidents what is the high level report card mark to put a cap on this just for the audience here is our national debt president over the two presidencies the two terms and as you can see with the taking out the bump for covet it's pretty much they're both wild spenders i think we can all agree they both are spending too much money and we need to have more fiscal discipline we all agree on that now to chem out's point it's steel man anything you like about the trump presidency and then we'll go to kamala i mean i think there was good elements of the tax cut i think he went too far but i think they needed to come down from 35 yeah whatever the corporate rate 35 i think was corporate that was too expensive it made it difficult for us to compete globally i thought 20 um and i thought bringing down cap gains um again i forget exactly what they were maybe 29 i forget was also smart but i think he went too far but you can argue that there's no right answer on what that is going to be it's a guess right you just put it out there and you hope what you what you plan and what you propose and what is implemented works and you don't know until it does so i didn't i didn't have a problem with him trying that yeah 35 to 21 you got it exactly right yeah you've acknowledged that kamala's unrealized gains tax is a disaster well i'll acknowledge that it's not real and you're making it up that you've never heard her say i made it up yeah you made her up her it was in it was in the biden the last biden harris budget it was in the harris platform at the dnc it was the biden platform at the dmc right you have never heard her talk about it they did a searcher place on his name and put her name in there but you're you're reaching david you're reaching right you've never heard her talk about it at all she's been very specific that cap gains goes to 28 percent that um that what is what is biden what has biden done well and what has he not done well and then the follow-up question is if it were an open democratic primary would you have voted for kamala harris i don't know but then again if donald trump participated in the debates on the republican primary in the republican primary would you have voted for donald trump you know you're saying you're saying it's analogous the republicans had an open primary no but they didn't de santis competed but he didn't participate nikki haley competed that an open primary trump was 50 hold on a second trump trump was 50 points ahead maybe he should have debated i don't know maybe of course no i mean look i would have been in favor of him debating but he was 50 points ahead and everybody had a chance to run yeah but they didn't really have a chance because the democrats pretended hold on let me finish and you can get your response okay the democrats pretended that joe biden was just fine that he was sharp as attack that he was the best version of joe biden and when the primary came and you had um outsiders like bobby kennedy uh try to compete not only did he not only did biden not debate they basically used lawfare to keep bobby kennedy off the ballot they did not allow him a fair shot at the nomination which is why he had to leave the party and run as an independent then we find out after the debate that actually biden is not fine he's actually appears to be in significant cognitive decline so somehow nancy pelosi gets him out of there and then kamala harris is anointed she's never won a primary vote ever she in 2020 she ran and dropped out before the first primary and then this time around she never had to compete in the primary and somehow she's the candidate the question is i don't think well the question is how can you liken this to what the republicans did having an open and competitive primary so first of all the republicans did not have an open and competitive keyword competitive primary because if one of the candidates refuses to participate because they have a lead look what happened to joe biden for all we know vivek vivek would have destroyed trump as much as trump destroyed joe biden nikki haley would have destroyed trump as much as joe um donald trump destroyed joe biden i don't know i think that's i was supporting de santis at that time and it was definitely the santis would have crushed him too right they were those they were allowed to compete their names were on the ballot i know talking about a very sex would you do you think de santis nikki halley or vivek would have beaten trump in a in a debate no i think when if you look at them okay well hold on i'm saying it's unclear i don't think you can just say that they would have won i mean thank you so that means it's not a truly competitive when trump when trump was in a crowded republican field and debated he crushed everybody so i just don't know what would have happened that was 2016.

this is just debate this is just debate okay what about the point that the democrats kept other contenders off the ballot they used lawfare and moreover they lied about biden's cognitive condition and then they anointed kamala harris through a process that is opaque and we still don't know what happened okay so here's my answer right first going back to republic it wasn't a competitive primary if the contender doesn't participate and yes he did well against 15 other candidates in 2016 but i'd be willing to bet that he's also had cognitive decline everything he says and does is reflective of that if joe biden had said the same thing we would be having a lot of quote we would we don't judge donald trump and his cognitive ability the way we did joe biden okay so we'll put that behind now let's go to joe biden do you think democrats lied about biden's condition let's just let me i'm gonna tell you my personal experiences with joe biden right i didn't talk to him a lot twice during that period and i can tell you from the first time i saw him a year before the last time i saw him which was you know probably in march or april i forget there was a decline but the decline was in his sharpness right his quickness of response if you sat down and you listen to him speak about something which i did he wasn't forceful he wasn't you know he looked like a walking corpse um he looked awful right um but in terms of content it was there and so i understand why they positioned him the way they did it's just to sell it was impossible so that's part one so i don't think the decline is nearly what you're saying it is but i do agree that you're rid of him okay so that's now we're moving forward right his ability to respond in real time you slow down we all slow down right i'm 66 years old and i've slowed down versus where i was at 45.

you so you know at 81 and at 78 you are going to be slower joe biden and just was not as quick that was a real problem he got destroyed in the debate by trump because of that not because he didn't know the the materials and the content but he just couldn't respond and think fast enough so i think that's where the the misunderstanding is it's not that he had cognitive decline in the pure sense it's that his ability to respond quickly was gone and he looked like he had cognitive decline so now let's go forward to the democratic national um convention where um and right before that where they replaced it i was curious about the just the um mechanics of the whole thing so being the curious person i am i went and pulled up the bylaws and the rules of the democratic party and the democratic national convention and they reset those every four years and prior to them pulling out and it's very very clear that the only mission and the only task and it's pretty much the same in the republicans i looked at theirs too the only mission is to win you want to win the presidency you want to have control of congress that's all they care about and they give themselves every bit of flexibility to do whatever they damn well please to put themselves in that position they are a private organization are they the party are they the party then of democracy as they claim to be or are they the party of winning it all so now you're trying to you know play branding games right is starbucks really saying that their rhetoric is at odds with what they actually did hold on a second there were 14 million primary voters in the democratic primary that's the mainstream media discussion of this right they said there's 14 million voters i say trump didn't debate at all there was zero debates with donald trump which one was primary though people got to vote for their candidate it's not an open primary because it's donald trump's family business he controlled what happened in the yeah listen i mean i was again i was supporting someone different during the primary and the reason why desantis lost is he didn't get enough votes okay and if you would have missed an opportunity donald trump that's why i bet you won the primary fair and square whether he debated or not he was up 50 points on everybody else and i bet and i don't know that's not what happened with biden what happened with biden let me finish david let me finish biden won the democratic primary got 14 million votes and then they threw out that throughout that result and put in kamala harris because they didn't like his we were in a fraternity what's that we ever in a fraternity we ever in a fraternity no okay in a fraternity they get to vote on all kinds of but at the end of the day if the chapter of the the national organization says no right doesn't matter who won the election right so you're saying the democratic party is a click i get it it's just i think we're talking let me get let me regain control here just to just to recap david you're just talking branding you can brand it however you want no the democrats said they're the party of democracy the democrats i'm not a democrat i don't care what they do i don't care what you're supporting them you're supporting i'm supporting hold on can you just acknowledge that their rhetoric is hypocritical i don't care what the rhetoric is i don't pay attention i don't pay attention to their rhetoric we're not going to get progress i really want to hear what mark thinks yes okay here we go forward move forward two okay two things seem to uh be true at the same time if i'm recapping your position here mark one you would have liked to seen trump debate two i think you would have loved to seen a speed run primary perhaps maybe kamala you know battled it out i honestly didn't care i went once donald trump was the candidate i wanted the best person to beat donald trump that's what i cared about let me go back to my question so i'm just going to give you a succinct summary of mark cuban's position his evaluation of the trump presidency the positives were tax cuts and warp speed and operation warp speed the negatives were continuing the war in yemen when they had a chance to and then this and actually the negative wasn't so much that sorry tramite okay the negative wasn't so much he continued it the negative is the hypocrisy in his okay right in the style okay now the tone and style of how he governed can we do biden what are the things that biden and harris did well that have helped the country and what are the things that they could have done better did not do well so i'll start with the negatives first so just so you know that there's a lot of them one the way they handled the border was horrific there's no way to you know to say it any differently now i understand why they took the approach they did literally if if i were in a central a central american company country and my family was at risk of getting shotgun because there's a drug war i'm doing everything i can and i reckon i recognize you know that if i just set foot on american soil i have a chance for asylum and i get that and i get why biden and his administration might say just for humanitarian reasons we're going to increase the number of people that we allow to do that i understand why he would do it but at the same time he opened the door too wide and he made it so that there were too many people that came through and that created cascading problems now to his credit down back in june i think it was he excited he signed an executive order which he now has made permanent or as permanent as you can as president that changed um that there's no longer the option to just set foot on american soil and be eligible for um a hearing for asylum you can't do that any longer and to her credit she worked with the um head of the mexican government and they have taken steps to reduce the flow of people to the border and so now the number of encounters at the border is about the same as what it was right before the pandemic under the trump administration so while he was too long to do it while he um handled it incorrectly overall and messaging was horrible i think they got to the right place but now we have a problem right that he created where we have too many um non-citizens illegal aliens however you want to call them however you want to brand them and we have to understand how to deal with them i think that they have talked about kamala has talked about first and even jd vance said this first we're going to get rid of the criminals which makes sense but donald trump says we're just going to deport everybody any illegal we're just going to deport them now obama was the deporter in chief he deported more people than trump or biden over 3 million people but he had a specific process in place that everybody could understand and i think with trump remember um that or orion gonzalez kid the six-year-old kid in miami elion gonzalez right where all of a sudden you had these these cops with you know riot gear on and machine you know an ar-15s or whatever they use pointing them at a six-year-old kid cowering in a closet if donald trump does that and that's not contrary to how he approaches things we could have another series of riots and protests that go really really bad and so while i think biden handled things completely wrong at the beginning i think with harris now and she's saying she'll support the um the immigration bill that was bipartisan etc etc you guys know that i think she has a more common sense approach to dealing with deportations and getting people through the asylum system and the asylum that bill i think said that it would reduce the amount of time to adjudicate asylum to 90 days which means that there's a chance to get control of this before it turns into a ride okay so that that was border was bad anything else bad or should we shift to the good i think the spending was bad i think um that we overspent and i think we went through a period where uh and i'm not trying to make excuses for him i just think you know you guys mentioned this before he did overspend and i think the the infrastructure bill was good i think the broadband bill was good and everybody says we spent 42 billion dollars on broadband and got nothing we should have gone to starling but the reality is the money went to the states and they could buy um starlink from elon all they want so that's just kind of the mainstream media poo-pooing something they shouldn't poo-poo but the ev stuff the ev chargers that's a cluster you know and there's no way around that and so i think that was bad um so pork barrel spending basically unaccountable spending yeah no i think you know what they did in healthcare um you know you can take lena khan and say what she's doing for the mergers you know alberson's and kroger's i think is too much i think you know and i even told her this i sat on a panel sitting right next to her and i said the most important thing from a technological perspective in this country today is that we win ai that is going to find everything militarily for us and economically for us and that when you try to break up companies like google and facebook you diminish our ability to compete globally with ai and she told me now that she didn't didn't impact her at all that she understands that and she's heard that before i think their approach to that is wrong i think that what she's done with the ftc against pharmacy benefit managers has been good right pharmacy benefit managers are ripping off more companies and costing and increasing the cost of medications more than anything else that's happening in healthcare and she's called them on the carpet with a recent report and just sued them i think that's good um i think in terms of other negatives like kamala harris now i think um the um um filibuster i think that's a mistake to try to get rid of the filibuster because then somebody else gets rid of it for something else and it's just cascading problems um on spending we talked about i think he spent too much so what and what have they done well i think he changed the tone of the country i think that was really really important no one woke up you know david calls it mean tweets but not waking up concerned about mean tweets is important not waking up concerned about there being some random um tariff on your company that you didn't expect not waking up being accused of of doing something i think those were all huge positives i think um supporting workers i think you know just having just a sensibility of okay we're not in the middle of everything there just wasn't this uncertainty like every single day that every business woke up with with trump just removing that was the biggest positive of all so let's look forward now to akamala harris candidacy for president of the things so we know the donald trump track record because he gets the credit for the things he got right and he has to take ownership of the things but how it's been defined i'll use the yeaman example again i'll use the price example on oil again the you know we have trump nisha right we presume that what he did in terms of the economy and everything and no wars you know no everything was just rosy under donald trump and i think that's another thing that's negative i'll be honest i've never heard this specific theory i'll take the time to look and figure it out for myself and i'll let you but what i'm curious about is that track record is there now how much of the and do you think it's important for us to give credit for the good things to kamala and responsibility for the bad things to kamala in that so that you have an equivalent a b comparison do you think about it that way or not no i don't and i'll tell you why okay i'm assuming all you guys have had a boss at one point or another yes yeah yeah and do you all agree with everything that that boss did all the time no no no but you had to do what the boss told you to do yeah and that's kamala's job but i like i like to take credit for when the boss tells me i'm owning something and then i do it well but at the same time you get credit for doing it but it doesn't matter you know if it turns out to be wrong it's still the boss that's on the hook for it what about the border mark because you made a comment about the border and she was declared the border czar yeah again that that's branding i mean we play branding games with politics all the time if you look at what her specific responsibility was i alluded to it earlier her job was to go to central america and talk to the heads of the countries there and try to reduce the reasons why people were leaving their countries to go to the united states why do you think they uh open the border so much i'm wondering mark there is a conspiracy theory or theory um you can you can pick how you want to frame it that this is to increase the number of democratic voters at the same time we hear that a lot of the folks coming in who are the working class that the republican party is now the populist party so those votes would go to the republicans so you know i've heard this argument from both sides what is another there's another theory an economic theory mark which is that it increases the base of workers when we're at our lowest unemployment rate in history and inflation is raging so by bringing in low-cost workers that you're that you're able to get to work at a lower wage rate you actually have a deflationary effect and a stimulatory effect because then they end up being extended and i get the logic there i don't think they're i think maybe they might have thought of that earlier and that's why they let too many people in but i think they realize now that they screwed up and that shouldn't be an executive authority right i mean that should be like a legislative congressional authority that makes that decision and that determination on whether to change immigration policy do you think that the executive branch should be able to unilaterally determine who comes into the country without following laws no i prefer that congress does it unfortunately that's just not what works look at the sec with gary gensler the guy's a moron and but you know they here we go we can agree on that actually yeah so that's an area we can we can agree on but before we get to that so so your claim on board we finally found ground truth here we go no we can agree on we can agree on that we'll get to that but but before before we do that i just want to finish up on border here so your claim is that kamala harris really wanted to seal the border but she was prevented no david you're really good at trying to position things so you have you know you have talking points to go out with um so i'm just you said that this is a case of a vp who was thwarted by her boss no that is not what i said okay so you admit you are the king of virtue signaling david no no no that's not virtue signaling okay so the truth is she was on board with joe biden's agenda i don't know she's doing what she was told which one is it there's no you're creating false choices david you're creating false so david if you do the job your boss told you to do does that do you make a declaration before you do it if i agree or disagree how do you know she disagreed with joe biden about these policies because i see what she's doing now well because she changed the policy right she has a different policy election year conversion she realizes what a disaster it's been so so when trump does it it's brilliant let me give you the proof okay her own words okay so she flipped her position she called trump's border wall un-american and medieval and mocked it and this is before she became biden's vice president right around the same time hold on when she was in the senate and trump was trying to build the wall remember democrats tried to thwart that they subjected him to years of litigation to prevent him from building that wall and she multiple times was on record saying the wall was un-american medieval mocked and so forth she also compared ice to the kkk she said that images of border patrol agents evoke slavery okay this is her rhetoric i don't think joe biden made her say that she suggested that we abolish ice and start from scratch okay and now she wants to talk about how tough she is on the border it's ridiculous maybe she talked to jd vance back then and was taking his positions people change their mind for whatever reason people learn your positioning as okay so for so hold on so so throughout her whole time in the senate she was arguing against the border wall okay in the strongest possible language she then becomes border czar or you could call it point person for the biden administration and for three years they gaslit us that the border was not a problem that was not an open festering wound like the videos were constantly coming out i remember on the show we talked about it and i was told when i raised the issue of the border that was a conspiracy theory that fox news was just cherry picking videos remember that jason in any event yeah well people were actually it was interesting to bring that up because people were sharing people were sharing videos and playing them on fox that were from like 10 years ago so there was a lot of misinformation democrats the whole thing about caravans david all those caravans never made it to the border how many caravans did we hear about something like 10 over 10 million migrants have entered the country during the biden harris administration the first thing they did hold on first of all we don't know when biden went by no no no no we do know those those 10 million are just the border encounters those are the recorded crossings that they led into the country the number we don't know is whether how many more were not recorded encounters 20 or 30 million well you can look up on what happened why why did this happen i'll tell you why when joe biden took office he repealed all of trump's executive orders no he did not what is it section 42 what's it 90 of them title title 40 and the most around until the end of 23.

and in addition they got rid of trump's remain in mexico policy and they changed the meaning of asylum so that anyone who went to the border and said that they were suffering economic hardship which is basically the whole world okay could now qualify for asylum and they were giving they were given like a ticket to appear in court one day like three years five years and they were ushered into the country and then there were like non-profits working with the biden administration to put them on buses david i agreed that they were shipped all over the country i agreed they screwed up on the border no fine they screwed up but now we are back so yeah but she she changed just like donald she changed like jd vance jd vance called him hitler jd vance in 2020 and and after diminished donald trump that was those in private communications in 2016 and jd advance explained including last night why he changed his mind about right and that's fine so he talked to people so so does she representing the state of the people this was her position like six months ago and now all of a sudden she's the nominee so she's no no no no no no you're you're trying you're virtue signaling like a right you're trying to put you're trying to brand anything you tried to brand anything that you disagree with that you think is a negative and just put it on her which is politics 101 right but you're not looking at what she's actually doing what she's actually doing person for the administration okay look doesn't matter if she was if she was in charge does and she said you know what what you want her to do is like jd vance said about um abortion right i talked to somebody and you know they proved it great that was a smart move by him would it be smart for her to say i was wrong now i i've learned more and i've picked up more information now it's actually a good question for you sax if jd vance can lobby and want a national abortion ban and then change his mind as the number two for trump can kamala change her mind when she is he's no longer running for you know the number two seat as biden well i think i think jd explained why he changed his mind about that he said that there was a referendum in ohio and his side lost so he can change his mind can kamala and you have the grace for kamala to change your mind or not hold on a second he's taking a learning from that kamala harris has never explained why she changed her mind when will the media even ask her this question she doesn't submit for interviews and certainly the the debate moderators like on abc never asked her a question mark if she's going to change her mind if she's going to have this election year conversion why doesn't the media ask her what is the basis of this when did you change your mind was it five minutes ago why then did you uh support biden throughout your entire last three and a half years why don't they ask her these questions if you were part of the biden administration why do you volunteer to be the border czar if you disagree with joe biden about these policies when exactly did you change your mind those are the questions that she should be answering why will she those are the questions that you want those are the questions that you want so that you think you can put her on the defensive and get and have this country to know no look you want to know but let me just tell you what's important put yourself put yourself in the shoes let's just call this a business right and the business of this business is getting votes and winning this election and you came in and the the product that you originally had new coke failed right biden's new coke in this example and you come in and you say i'm you know i'm bringing it back this is the new new coke and we're going to test to see if that's working well when you brought in kamala harris she had no favorable ratings whatsoever she was behind in all polling right where joe biden was and now she's either even or ahead or a little bit behind in every single poll and why do i bring it up because it means what she's doing is working you know i think actually we agree i think we actually have found a point to agree on which is i think kamala harris is just saying whatever it takes to get elected you can say the same thing about i think her true belief hold on she stated her true belief years ago and throughout the biden administration which is she never believed the border was a problem she thought the border wall trump's wall was un-american and medieval and she thought that ice needed to be abolished i think that was her true belief now if it's not her true belief i would like her to explain when she changed her belief and why the same way that jd vance did and i think the american people are entitled to know that and i think if the media was doing its job they'd be asking her those questions she she's never been asked that stephanie rule latest interview did not ask that and the debate moderators did not ask that let's just go outside of america for one second because mark you're jewish you're of jewish heritage i would really like your opinion on what's happening outside of america there was some crazy pictures over the last few weeks coming out from the middle east there's still all this complications complicating stuff with china where do you stand on all of these things where do you stand on the mearsheimer sacks jeffrey sacks kind of school of logic that there's a military industrial accomplice that tends to just push us towards these war zones and these forever wars where do you just stand on those issues and how do you think about that i mean honestly i don't have enough information to give you a qualified response i'm pro-israel to the core because i'm jewish um i'm anti-hamas to the core i think you know they're terrorists they are terrorists um i want to see israel to succeed i want to see israel succeed i want to see the united states support them and help them in that um but you know when israel was going into gaza i thought it was too blunt an instrument but when they went after hezbollah i thought they did it the exact right way and so you know i'm i'm always only going to respond you have a nuanced opinion of this yeah and ukraine yeah um ukraine i don't want to see american blood spilled and as long as there's a nato and i agreed there should be a nato i'd rather see us spend money than put soldiers in harm's way and so um does the harris campaign agree on that point or do they have a conversation i haven't had that conversation with them i don't know let me ask you just a point on arithmetic which i think is the most important arithmetic we should all be talking about today is the first uh yesterday was the first day of the uh federal fiscal year fiscal year right and uh here's a little uh image for us to all look at together as a group an image that everyone should wake up every morning in the united states and look at the first thing they do instead of looking at twitter they should look at the image that i'm sharing on the screen right now which is federal debt in the united states i thought it was maybe a screen of you taking a bath this is the first day on the first day of the new fiscal year federal debt jumped by 204 billion dollars in one day federal debt now stands at 35.7 trillion dollars and the biggest challenge we have in the year ahead is that 10 trillion of the outstanding debt comes up for refinance it's going to refinance at around four percent so we're going to be adding another 300 billion dollars in new interest expense next fiscal year plus the biden administration has proposed a 7.2 trillion dollar budget for next year which will inevitably lead to another 2 trillion dollars of deficit spending which means that by the end of 2025 we could be staring at 40 trillion dollars of federal debt and if you do the math on that at four percent interest it's 1.6 trillion a year of interest expense a year just on interest expense on the outstanding debt which effectively begins to eclipse the entire federal budget very quickly and gives us no ability to maneuver to meet the needs of all the policy demands that are being described and shaped in all of these elections and all of these debates and all the that's going on is really not fundable what does the harris campaign say about the situation with respect to deficit spending and debt and i don't know how high you can raise taxes and not cut spending to even make a dent in the challenge ahead without driving a massive recession what is what do you think like the harris versus the trump campaign's kind of intentions are as we look at this abyss that we're now kind of jumping again i can't speak for them i can only tell you the conversations i've had and what they've said to me whether or not they take these directions is completely up to them and i don't know but i've said the exact same thing they know that the um the deficit's a problem it won't be a budget by a biden budget there's no biden administration to happen they've already come you know just the tax rates are completely different than the biden budget proposals where there's no you know um unrealized capital gains etc they went to 28 and 28 so it's not going to be what was proposed by biden there's a limit on tax basically right like that that people yeah there's only there's a point of diminishing returns and raising taxes and they realize it right so when we talked about unrealized capital gains and i gave them a thousand reasons why not they're like we already know this um yada yada now to david's point why don't they just come out and say it because the one percent of high information voters don't know the difference of unrealized capital gains or not and don't care the 99 want to hear about the things that they're talking about so that's why people like me can go out there and talk about it but to your point and the bigger point david um dave that they've realized that there's only a couple ways to reduce the deficit one you get inflation under control and that reduces interest rates and that's going to work in our favor and i think that's happening now if it's 1.6 trillion dollars then you know if interest rates go below four percent that saves a lot of money and probably the most you can save they realized efficiency is an important element in her last speech in pittsburgh she talked about how long it took it only took one year to build the empire state building that is crazy there's too much friction in the government to be able to do building the right way they're going to reduce friction i've had conversations with them about ai as a service and being able to optimize integrating um artificial intelligence into all these processes so that they don't have to keep on hiring people i don't think their mindset again i'm speaking for myself and my perspective of my conversations with them i don't think their mindset is to just go out there and just cut a ton of people but i do think the mindset is how can we implement technology to become more efficient so that we can provide more value to the citizens of this country at less cost i think that's important to them i think um you're going to see a lot of reduction i'm trying to think the best way to say it she knows that technology is the ultimate driver of success and if she supports new technologies and you heard that again in pittsburgh she wants she mentioned blockchain but more importantly she mentioned ai and how ai is key to us being a dominant military um to having our military be dominant and to have our economy grow because the other way to get results isn't just a slash and burn like vivek wants to do but to grow the economy and that there truly are ways to grow the economy without just more spend but do you yeah do you support elon musk going in like if you're saying shed regulatory burden shed inefficiency improve productivity don't we need an elon musk style model that you know trump has talked about with elon send someone in and let's go fix the inefficiency across all of the administrative efforts run by the federal government one first of all when you just cut when you do a vivek type just cut the department of education right whatever it is we don't know what elon would actually do well i think that triggers a recession because then you got a lot of people unemployed right yeah exactly right and there's contracts and so that means the united states of america is violating all these contracts with small businesses and medium-sized businesses um and maybe you want to put doge in the the treasury who knows and that's how we make it all up but but you can't just crap and slash and burn to your point dave i mean it just won't work and so what you can do though is introduce technology we have yet to have a president that fully understands technology i'm not here to tell you that kamala harris is a geek she's not but she understands the impact and she has a lot of people who truly are geeks around there around her and she truly believes that implementing technology is a way to improve efficiency but the whole idea is you can't take the libertarian approach that's ideologic you have to take a problem solving approach how do you look at any specific problem we're trying to solve how can you apply technology to that i think you will get that from the harris administration as opposed to donald just talking about the ai and how much energy it consumes mark you you said of all the rules if there's a harris administration you said you want to run the sec why i was just i was just trolling gary gansler yeah i was just trolling gary gansler because it's fun to do okay okay so do you think just you and particularly wise gansler has he done a particularly bad job are you just trolling are you just trolling are you just trolling david sacks when you say you're trolling me now right i can't keep up with the troll and i think i need to control the trolling where i agree with mark mark is actually supporting trump he's just rolling sacks and coming on the show he's been going on for a week i know he's not supporting trump but but i tell you one uh one republican that as i understand that you are supporting is john deaton who is running against elizabeth warren in the massachusetts senate race yep so uh i'm curious about this because i think this is an area we could agree on you're not sure i mean i didn't know that that's pretty that's pretty interesting yeah i mean i'm not a fan of elizabeth warren's i've talked to her about crypto i mean i understand her position her basic position is you know bad nation states use crypto to fund their operations the bad stuff and she just wants to throw the baby out with the bath water as opposed to using you know like i proposed a blacklist from ofac that can be implemented in all kinds of i need to get into the details right but it just it wasn't going to happen and so when john not just being pro crypto but you know his background his character i thought really was a positive and so even before he got through his hat in his ring i was talking to him supporting him giving him feedback and helping him so again i'm not a democrat i have no problem and i think john deedon will be better for the country better for the citizens of massachusetts than elizabeth warren would be what would be common sense crypto regulation obviously you don't want people bilking people out of their money yeah so what would be a way to balance accredited investors versus the populace non-sophisticated investors if that's even a thing so i've got a company called people running amok you know right so i've got a company called lazy.com and like if you go to lazy.com m cuban you'll see all my nfts and all it is is a way to display your nfts it's hardly makes any money but i wanted to see if we could release a token so first thing i did was i had one of our people call the sec and say hey what steps do we have to take to release the token they went through this whole rigmarole about getting securities lawyers and this and that there's no way a company with a hundred thousand dollars in revenue is going to be able to afford to do that so then i said okay i'm going to go right to the sec.gov and see about reg a and see if i can just fill out the forms myself and you know just see what so you start filling in name address and then you get to the type of business and the only category is other and once you follow that other connection there's just no way to put the um round the just there's no way to make it work you can't you can't make it work and i actually said that directly to gary gensler and so to answer your question you have to make it easy to follow the rules and you can't and in terms of everything being a security gensler says everything applies to howie right there's a how we rule and everything you know but the reality is there's also a rule that came after really came after um called reeves reeves versus ernst and young that had to do with interest and if you think about if you guys ever shorted stocks or done stock loan where you can make some money off a stock loan a borrow yeah yeah so but you know you can make a share you can make one of your shares of stocks available to the borrower and get paid a vig right you might get 10 or 12 and so doing that is the exact same thing as loaning out bitcoin for somebody else to borrow and there's no they don't call that a security so i asked i asked gary gensler if it's not a security to loan out um a share of stock and why is it you know a security to loan out a bitcoin to somebody else that didn't have an answer and the point there is he has an approach that is regulation through litigation he's going to sue you first ask questions later and hope that the result of that litigation becomes a rule that everybody else has to follow i literally said what's that well as you say wouldn't a more common sense approach here be to say if we had an accreditation test a sophisticated investor test we've talked about it here on the program yeah which there is well there's not one for the populace to take like a driver's license where they could say hey i've taken this test i understand diversity diversification etc yeah if you're able to register with securities um an exchange commission for your company for the release of your token then depending on how many people you're trying to sell it to you would only be able to do that with qualified investors right but what happens is gary gensler is making it so difficult to register and what he's what he should be doing is saying here's the bright line regulations if ftx wants to loan out all their ethereum you have to do what they did in japan you have to have 95 collateral and 95 of anything needs to be put in cold storage if he had followed the same rules for crypto that japan did ftx would still be in business sam bakeman free might still be in jail but ftx three arrows capital they'd still be in business because he did the wrong thing now i've literally talked to kamala harris at lunch about this specific topic of litigate regulation through litigation and as a lawyer she got it immediately and she knows it's a problem and they know and she's even mentioned in one of her speeches that that's something that they're going to deal with can i get your reaction to this story from the washington reporter there was a story i don't know if it's true or not website washington post but no washington reporters so according to some senate sources kamala harris was considering gensler for treasury secretary i would call that okay what's the washington reporter about that or i i haven't asked her about any position at all but what i was told and look talking to people who are like always in the same room with her the response to me about gary gensler was have you heard anybody say anything positive that's intentional well i mean the reason he's in that role is because he is elizabeth warren's right ally and she has been enormously powerful during the biden administration have you heard her say a word mark mark boil it all up like what's your general sense of her like how should we all think about her so here's the way i look at kamala right she is open-minded she's smart she does the work she digs in and learns she's ethical she's honest she cares um she wants to bring the country to the middle she knows that when she was far left that might have been great for the state of california but it doesn't solve the problems of the united states of the america of america today and that's why you've seen her go to the middle and that is truly i know david you might not believe this it is truly honest and through and through her when she gave give speeches now she says i'll take ideas from independents i'll take them from republicans i don't care we have a lot of problems to solve in this country i i would be shocked if if she wins she talks to elon musk if elon would talk to her she doesn't care where the ideas do interviews with unfriendly or challenging folks this seems to be like you know a really valid criticism we've had trump here we've had jd vance here shine yeah i don't disagree look it is why does she why does she hide do you think i don't think she's hiding there's two elements there right one i think she understands the assignment which is to win the election and the best way to reach the most number of people and get them to change their mind is not the one percent of people who are high information voters it's all the people who are showing up at rallies and screaming and yelling those are the people who people whose mind she has changed so far and that's how she's caught up and who she wants to change and that's where she's putting her focus and two and this is brutally honest um she has too long a wind up in answering every single question and that makes interviews difficult she wants to inspire everybody with everything that she answers and tries to get people all excited about what she's going to do and so she takes too long to get to that if you cut out the wind-ups her answers aren't so bad her answers are absolutely legit but that wind-up makes it seem like the whole word salad thing you don't think it's relevant that she was born to a middle-class family as the answer to yeah she's going to solve inflation she's got to drop that yeah but on the flip side i mean if you listen i literally because i knew i'd be talking to you guys i listened to donald trump's speech in milwaukee did any of you guys listen to that yes i was there okay well you were there sex that was the last one no no not milwaukee no no no not the rnc not the rnc two days ago two days ago two days ago talking about the rnc so kamla might have a long windup donald trump has an eternal windup where all he does is get to his slogans and talking points and then talks gibberish the rest of the time let me fill you in and some of the jim about a rally he will speak extemporaneously for over an hour yeah but what he says should i'll take that any day over someone on a teleprompter for 19 minutes so what you're saying it doesn't matter what he says no i think it does matter but i think that i've watched enough trump rallies including his speech at the convention where i was there listening to understand what he's what issues he stands for okay well tell me what issues he stands for when he diminishes jimmy carter who just has his 100th birthday tell me what issues i haven't i've heard him say good things and bad things about okay so let's put that aside everyone makes fun of jimmy carter okay so let's put that aside let's just say it is what it is even though it's aside we'll go that put that under the character he started talking about apartments with no windows that builders under kamala harris are going to start are being forced to build apartments with no windows i haven't heard that bit yet yeah oh i listened to this today and then he also said that i also know that people take a lot of what trump says out of context to make it seem a lot worse if you actually listen to if you listen to what he says and you don't try to um you know shade it in the worst possible way a lot of what he says makes sense i believe that if you if you want to know why i support trump number one the border okay unlike kamala harris's election year conversion he has been very consistent ever since he came down the escalator yes he has that we needed to have a wall and that really that was just the first part of our border security we need to have a border democrats not just kamala pretty much all the democrats fought him on that for the last eight years to the point where i understand i understand so the board is one thing so you got that okay so i think that he and only he has credibility in this election on that issue number two on the on the foreign wars we talked about this i mean i don't think his record on foreign policy was perfect but it is true that he did not start any new foreign wars here is joe biden and and and the set no where did joe biden start the ukraine war we could have ended that he invaded ukraine i've argued on the show many times in my view he provoked it okay he provoked it okay so you're assigning whatever to joe biden he forced putin to invade ukraine come on stop acting dumb you understand that we try to convert ukraine into a giant nato base that was the russians said over and over again that that was a red line to them it was the brightest of all but to blame it on biden burns our current cia director said it best it's the brightest all red law of all red lines for the russian elite not just putin okay okay that has been a consistent you think he contributed to the war and moreover hold on a second even if you don't believe even if you disagree with me and you say that biden didn't provoke it we had the chance to end the war in its first month with a deal in istanbul okay and you know the mainstream media denied it for a year it was only an alternative media and then finally the new york times the wall street journal wrote stories about it it is the truth victoria newland just admitted it we could have agreed to a deal in the first month the biden administration shot that down that is why we have the war going in ukraine okay so let's just say that's a fact remember and that was also very destructive and by the way if you care about israel hold on mark if you care about israel you should be really concerned about the fact that the united states has significantly depleted its stockpiles of weapons and artillery ammunition in ukraine on a war that is futile we said we said david we didn't give them anything new we sent them our old israel gets the glengarry leads 155 155 millimeter artillery shells are 155 millimeter artillery shells it's not about new or old okay get the glengarry lee israel gets the glengarry leads right and look and on top of that zelinski there's only so much air defense there's only so many patriots to go around all right do you agree that zelinski could have said yes to that deal the the one in istanbul yeah he could only say yes to it if the u.s supported it and instead we encouraged him to fight we threw cold water on that deal we blocked it we should have told zelinski you know what just make that deal we don't need another war right now okay this nato thing's not happening anyway okay because we're not letting zelinski into nato well no the guy from norway the guy who just took over nato says otherwise we're not going to let in zelinski was just here in the u.s last week with his so-called victory plan you know what his victory plan was let us into nato immediately so that you can fight our war for us for you no i get that with the administration to its credit rejected that okay i give biden credit for that the good news is biden is not running in this election whenever it's inconvenient you want to pretend that harris has nothing to do with this administration i'm just giving you reality i'm giving you when i've had people who worked for me and started went out and started their own companies like samatha and in facebook right they're not people have different opinions the people who work for me do what i say period end of story maybe they do so she was just following orders basically the nuremberg defense do you think j do you think jd vance is going to do anything contrary to donald trump if he wins there's an abundant record i know what jd vance stands for there was an abundant record that's not the question that's not the question harris as a senator before she even that's not the vp job she was she was rated the most liberal member of the senate by govtrack why don't you answer mark's question it is the question is what does she really stand for what's your question sorry what's your question i'm happy to answer it would jd vance ever go against donald trump no obviously i understand that a vp cannot go against what the president in a nutshell that's it period now we can cut half the episode out now moving on hold on a second that fact does not prove that kamala harris has a different policy than joe biden whenever it's inconvenient for you to admit what she's doing david no you you're doing the exact thing you're saying you're saying that i'm doing you're trying to position her so that everything from the biden administration is she has ownership of it and what i'm saying is just look at what she's doing look at what she's saying you're you would see here's the here's the trump derangement here's the antithesis of the trump derangement syndrome syndrome right you tell whenever donald trump says something stupid everybody explains it for him when kamala harris says something smart everybody tries to explain why it's stupid and not true when did she say something smart i mean seriously what's the last thing she said that was smart just curious jason i want to fact check the window list by the way the window list the the windowless thing mark just so you know because nick's shared it with us it's an architectural digest article apparently eric adams the mayor of new york proposed windowless bedrooms as a way to change the building codes to incentivize more apartments being built i think it's also to fix the housing crisis converting the problem with converting the plates this is what always happens this is the gaslighting they try to make well i mean he also i mean trump lies constantly let's be honest you find out that there's a real basis to his in some cases he just lies anyway trump can't ever explain it himself why is it that the guy that you like can never come out and say hey you know this is crazy this is the most ridiculous thing eric adams suggested everybody else has got to do the research and explain what trump really means because he is losing it he is kind of you're the one who raised it as some example as an example of trump okay do you think it's a cognitive client sex no i think he's very sharp we met him personally so let's wrap let's wrap the politics section with just a final question because no wait i have a question yeah let's see politics mark very very pointed question why did you sell the mavs at this moment so i sold three quarters of them not the whole thing i still own 27.7 percent um for a couple reasons one when i first bought in in 2000 i i was the tech guy in the mba i was the media guy you know broadcast.com just sold it um hd net just created the very first ever high definition television network i had every edge in every angle now fast forward 24 years later um in order to sustain growth to be able to compete with the new collective bargaining agreement you have to have other sources of revenue and so you see other teams and all sports for that matter you know talking about casinos talking about creating doing real estate development all this hotel that's just not me i wasn't going to put up two billion dollars to you know to get an education on building same that so that was one that's part one part two is my kids are now 15 18 and 21 and over the next 10 years that's a lot of pressure on them to have to take over the team or deal with the trust you know god forbid something happens to me deal with the trust fund issues and so by selling three quarters of it i took all that pressure off of them because you you guys see the hate i mean jason can tell you all day long about jimmy dolan you know he's mia right now and the knicks are doing great do you think valuations peak mark i don't think they've peaked yet because it for the reasons i just mentioned if we're able to build a venetian type casino in dallas with an american airline center in the middle of it the valuation is 20 billion dollars but i own 27 percent of that uh well and you bought it for under 300 and yeah 3.5 just not everybody's keeping the records i think chamath you bought a 300 and sold at 3 billion as well so congratulations boy actually let me ask you a question about that when you did it did you just do it for fun and it worked out to be a great business or did you think it's gonna be a great business no i did it for fun so you know it's a great question david um from 2000 to 2010 the the actual valuations went down and in 2010 we were not even able to sell the new orleans hornets the league had to buy it right and it was right around then that the sixers got purchased for 200 for the same price i paid and you know the um the cap the nba um salary cap is a reflection of the total revenues of the nba there were multiple years when the salary cap went down meaning our overall revenues went down which was great for me competitively because i would buy first round picks for three million dollars i would buy players from other teams that couldn't afford to run their teams and that's why we went on this you know 15 year streak of never having a losing season and winning 50 games in a row for for 10 years in a row so um you know it worked against me worked for me competitively but that just shows you that things can change and so i didn't do what's that what tv deal so when when um cable and satellite and um over the air became very competitive and they started to grow and subscriptions grew to 130 million people um or subscriptions that's a lot of money and they had to compete for content so that there would be less churn and i literally remember in 2001 when we first signed our first cable deal they nbc had the deal and they were going back to david stern saying we need fewer games and i sat there in one of our board of governors meetings and i'm like look tbs just signed a deal to pay a billion dollars per episode for repeats of seinfeld if you do that on evaluation per hour ours is fresher our ratings are actually better don't think of it as as um less um available less product will lead to more demand it's the exact opposite we're so inexpensive we can charge more and that led to the next tv deal and that led to the explosion mark you have a lot of fingers and a lot of pots and other businesses you have a really important thing you're doing in drugs that you may want to talk about yeah thanks for bringing that up smith if you look at the next 10 years of your life so you're 66 between now 14 years between now and 80 81 what's your goal like what are you working on what are the things that you care about where are you putting your capital what are you trying to do the number one's family obviously but beyond that is costplusdrugs.com um we're up the health industry like you wouldn't believe if you've seen just explain it for the folks that don't understand so let's just say guys our age or you guys are close enough to my age we use a drug called todilafil right for those of you who know what it is and you it's generic cialis yeah wait wait hold on we gotta double click on this i've heard from sax so you've heard from sax right are you a cialis or a viagra guy sax what's going on here or both so cialis just seems better value for money wait what are those never heard of them it's like what is that never heard of them he's turning red actually so if you go to costplusdrugs.com and you put into dillafil when it comes up we show your our actual cost and then we mark it up by 15 and if you buy it via mail order then we add five dollars for a pharmacy fee to review everything and five dollars for shipping and handling the net result of that is you guys have a general idea of what the price is now from now all the ads you can buy a 90 pack of todilafil for about nine dollars and 90 cents plus shipping and handling so for less than the price of a bag of m&ms you could put up a little cup or jar next to your bed of either m&ms what is the name of this website you might be right back nine dollars for 90 days right we're like let's go for your mom that seems free it's an incredible deal so but you apply that to the 2500 drugs that we have and now all of a sudden you see what's wrong with these things called pharmacy benefit managers and the problem of an industry that's opaque and i'll give you another example there are drugs that are called specialty generics and the only thing special about them they're actually just pills is that they're they were traditionally more expensive so there's a drug um called imatinib which is a chemotherapy drug if you just walk into um a cvs as an example and i hate a big big pharmacy um and just you have your cash payer or a high deductible payer and you just needed it they'll charge you anywhere from 200 to 2 000 you have no idea what you're going to pay if you get it from cost plus drugs depending on the volume the number and the strength it might be 21 to 30 dollars there's another drug droxidopa one of my buddies came to me and said i'm losing my insurance they want to charge me um the pharmacy wants to charge me ten thousand dollars a quarter for this medication called droxidopa all right landon let me check then initially it was 64 a month now it's in the 20 per month because as our cost goes down we pass it on and that's just changed the industry because think about what happens when you get a prescription what's the pushback but mark i mean what is the pushback you get because that's that's none count kids counter to the trend right so is it just infinite growth or how does the industry respond when you create that price differential so it's the innovators dilemma they can't just give up all of this margin they so most of the business of pharmacy benefit manage not most so a big chunk of the businesses comes from corporate um from corporations right and self-insured companies and they go to them and they put together the thing called the formulary which is all the drugs right that's available to them and they say we're going to price this so that we get rebates and we'll pass on the rebates we get from the manufacturers to you now they say they're going to pass on 100 of that rebate they don't they create all these subsidiaries and everything that skim 10 or whatever off the top but they know that they can continue working with these companies because the core competency of a ceo is not to know their health care costs and literally for any ceos that are out there audit your pbm contract audit it right now i promise you that that pbm is going to tell you you don't need to audit and then you can say we want to add cost plus drugs to our pharmacy supply contract and they're going to say no you're not allowed to do it because they know our prices are so much lower that is disrupting their industry are you doing this as like a for-profit business are you losing money on this and doing it just to help society what's your plan here right now um i'm losing money and most of that was because we built a factory a whole robotics driven factory that manufactures um sterile injectables that are in short supply so now like with the hurricane you know we're using our robotics to switch over to sterile water of all things and some other things so that we can manufacture it and get it to them at you know a reasonable price as opposed to price gouging which kamala has talked often about so you know because there will be price gouging and in pharmacy and we're here to be an alternative so to answer your question i've spent a whole a lot of money on these robotics and putting this together but our path is hockey stick double triple hockey stick and so we're taking business from them and i think the traditional legacy companies in the insurance did something happen to you or somebody around you that motivated you to go after the pbms or with just this clinical business analysis of like this just doesn't make sense and it can be done better so both um what happened was i got an email from my partner co-founder dr alex oshmiansky and he wanted to create a compounding pharmacy in denver that made drugs that were in short supply because there's always for whatever reason some generic drug that is on a shortage list and i'm like you're thinking too small and this was right around the time that the pharma bro was going to jail and i asked him you know how is it that this dude buys up a one-year supply of daraprim the drug he bought and just jacks it up and how does that happen and he goes it just happened i'm like well let me do some homework and dig in and the reason was obvious the industry was completely opaque the first line in every single pharmacy contract and healthcare contract for that matter is you're not allowed to talk about it you are restricted from talking about this to anybody anybody at all so we had a completely opaque market so we put together the website called costplusdrugs.com but really the smartest thing that we did and it was unintentional in terms of impact we created a full price list so you can get our 2500 drugs the actual price list and we release it every week because we're on a roll now where we've had since last a year ago more than a year ago every weekday we've lowered a price on a drug and so we just put that out and what's happened as a result is now companies can just get the price list and do comparisons to approximately what they're paying because their pbm won't tell them exactly what they're paying i got i have one suggestion for you there mark you can make this a non-profit when you sell the maps you could donate money to this then like six seven years later you could flip it into a for-profit and take it public there's like a strategy here this could work out exactly the point and you know sam altman is an investor no i'm just kidding um and so um so we put out this price list and all of a sudden harvard medical and vanderbilt and um the all these research institutes took our pricing and compared it to what medicare was paying for the same drugs and it was like well this is this is what i was going to ask you because cms is now in power to negotiate yeah and this is sort of maybe ties together with the governmental efficiency and just do the obvious right thing but shouldn't they just work with you as an example and and why don't they they are and it's just starting they are right so here's again i can't speak for her to say what she's going to do but here was the conversation i've had with her team when it comes to reducing out-of-pocket costs to deal with inflation what i have told them is one key area that in fact most families at some level nobody dies healthy is the cost of healthcare and pharmaceuticals and by working by requiring transparency in all contracts signed by anybody anywhere in terms of pricing you are going to see the same impact on across the board pricing of a decrease of 30 40 and so all that is going to reduce out-of-pocket spending for everybody reduce government spending for everybody and have a net positive impact they see that and have you had the had that conversation with the republicans as well so that no i mean it seems it makes sense for everybody i had the converse a similar conversation like as i mentioned you in the white house when i went there um and it just didn't resonate boys any any final questions for mark here as we uh not gonna ask me about elon and why i troll elon and any of that good stuff i mean i want to know about are you investing in ai technology where are you investing in the stack how do you think about that are you an active venture investor mark i mean i know we've obviously done some stuff together but i'm curious like how how you look at stuff so now i've kind of slowed down i invested in grok right with schmatz right schmatz yeah let's go right and he can tell you all the reasons i think we all i think we all have a piece of that now okay well good so you guys know the whole story right and so i think that that's great picks and shovels i think are important i think the problem and this happens with all new technologies is we're seeing the gold rush right now where everybody calls everything ai particularly with agents and i think you can put all these vertical agents together to do all these different things but agents are just going to be a feature not a product because inherently in ai as it advances and gets smarter then it's going to be able to create its own agents for its users and go forward from there so i've been really hesitant now because you know you're not going to invest in the foundational models i mean through a fund i have part of um open ai but and some others but it's that's just so expensive you don't know who the winners are going to be but yet everything that everything that happens is going to be a derivative of what's your what's your business intuition tell you about that actually so you have this crazy capital race between closed and open how do you think that plays out i think there are going to be um tens of millions of models everybody's going to have a model your kids are going to have models you know their little um invisible friend is going to be a model that's in a you know a teddy bear um that they grow up with so there's going to be an unlimited number of models but we don't know who the winners are going to be to host those models i have no idea and if you go back over the history of technology it's that's always the case everybody there's always a race to be the winner for the foundation whether it was broadband whether it was networking whether it was whatever it's streaming and everybody battles it out and so it's okay and i for me now i'm just like let me just wait let me just there's a you think there's going to be or a chance at job displacement what do you think of like this uh universal basic income cataclysm i think it's the exact opposite okay so i think that in order to train a model you need access to information and the internet ain't what it used to be in terms of being a source of information right and so ip is becoming more valuable you're not i think everybody by this time expected um all the foundational models to have all this health care information but if i'm mayo clinic i'm not giving microsoft or google or open ai my ip because that's what brands me and so there's going to be a lot of money available there and i think um that there that has got to be a way to there's got to be a way to figure that out right first how does ip work and how is it distributed and then how are we using it just in general we really don't know how we're going to implement it or use it or what the interface is going to be and all that will be figured out by some kid somewhere so maybe just to wrap mark so these these next 10 or 15 years is it about doubling down on these current things making cost plus thing huge like harvesting essentially or are you going to do new things or there's just the bar getting you know when i'm gone i wanted to say he did it it was expensive when we were sick it ain't expensive no more and to me that's that's the ultimate mission now it's fun to learn ai and you know build models and do all that stuff right um but when it's all said and done to me that's where you want to mark that's what let me let me ask you a final final question that's great uh we've uh you've done a reality show just retired from that cashed out of three quarters of the mavericks check did that um helping people with uh this cost plus drugs and and saving people money it's a pretty noble mission kind of adds up to you're going to run for president and no no there's no no why not it would be a great thing to do you've checked off all the boxes why wouldn't you old now too old now right he's not what he's talking about 20 years younger than trump and biden is wrong i changed i'm a sock puppet in my spare time i changed it four years from now eight years from now would you would you even consider it or if you were going to consider it yeah right of our era right yeah how would you process making that decision my kids hated the idea my wife hated the idea they want you know it's hard enough for them to have a normal life as it is um and that just takes it to a whole nother plus you'd have to run as a republican because democrats hate billionaires like you no actually bloomberg right you saw it in bloomberg yeah but that's a hundred million dollars made it to the first question of the first debate boom elizabeth warren knocked him out but let me just tell you this and we don't have to talk more about politics parties don't exist anymore they don't they're there's fundraising vehicles and they have procedures in place but this is donald trump he took over the republican party they do what he says and kamala harris has learned from donald trump give him credit she has learned what worked for him they're not stupid she has learned that she has got to be that personality that takes over and they have got to do what she says you haven't heard a word from bernie or elizabeth warren and that's not unintentional she is doing it her way now whether or not you agree what she's doing or her approach to win everybody can argue and that's what makes a market but there are no political parties anymore and the idea of the the ideology of a party on the democratic side is no more in place than on the republican side all right so uh with that my nicks got a shot this year what do you think yeah i thought the trade was great i thought that was great yeah it's great i think that's great i mean he's a little weak on the defense but he's you know but with kp right that's what they're doing how do they match up with boston and so kp and cat match up and that's why we got a shot you're saying there's a chance yeah i think my nicks might get there i'm saying you and jim carrey have a lot in common there's a chance all right everybody this has been another amazing episode thank you this is fun thanks guys come back anytime mark and we'll see you all next time bye bye thanks guys that was awesome they'll give you instructions and i'll upload and i'll see you at a game soon yeah you guys are awesome cheers and i don't mind arguing david i love to argue this stuff right i know i know look i give you credit you're fun to talk with and argue with and you obviously don't take it personally and i appreciate that and uh yeah i give you credit for having fun with it i know too many depressed billionaires so yeah i give you i give you a lot of credit yeah i i don't get that but you know what if you were if you were when you were poor you're up when you're rich right and it just doesn't change anything i was hoping you we talked about elon well we could still go there where's jake we can still go there you can ask the question if you want all right two of my besties oh has 25 years you and elon is this uh you guys just uh goofing on each other you got an issue with elon that's sincere or is it just playful fun trolling so two things one as an entrepreneur elon's like the of the of the right yeah there's i'm a huge fan what he's been able to accomplish is insane it's incredible i would never diminish anything he's done as an entrepreneur as a twitter user he's a troll and i mean he just trolls to troll to troll and every good troll deserves a foil right somebody to troll back and it's just so easy and so much fun um now you know i get some of the underlying principles i think at least in my mind like when he talks about what do you think about the first amendment principle that he's doing here of like radically changing twitter from like it's pretty controlled to hey anything goes i think that's almost anything i think that's a fear of losing um users so i think that within the conservative community they are more joiners and heavier um social media users participants yeah yeah participants so they they subscribe to more things they listen to more podcasts they're more active and i think he recognized that and that was a fundamental underpinning of why he kind of connected to them on the free speech thing because he still has his limits obviously it's his platform and what he doesn't want doesn't get shown so i think that's why and i can't blame him um i wish he would call me i'd help him on on on his his revenue and all that and then i think on the immigration side here's my theory you guys can tell me if you agree or disagree i don't think he's anti-immigration like he says you know anti-illegal immigration um where anybody who's in the country should be deported i think as an immigrant himself and i'm second generation you guys are you know immigrants at some level we all are but i think as an immigrant he thinks that the number of illegal immigrants in this country and the hate that's pushed towards them carries over to legal immigrants including himself and i think he by he believes that by diminishing the illegal or the non-citizens in this country and asking for their removal it improves the standing of the legal immigrants including himself and so that's kind of my theory on on both of those things interesting yeah it's uh it's certainly a different place i don't think you need much of a theory to explain elon's use because he's just so transparent about what he believes i truly believe that his core conviction and the reason he bought twitter x is because he wanted to unlock it as a free speech platform yeah i don't i don't think so okay well i don't know how much more money he can lose in pursuit of that but let's see here's why here's why i disagree you don't take other people's money to do that if he put i don't think he knew he didn't know that he would get boycotted by all these advertisements yeah but he knew he knew that i think he went in open eyes carried the sink in the door to run it with some improvements operationally which he did a great job of and to and taking out a huge amount of the cost structure which he did but jason and i were there on the first day the first day he took over there was an organized boycott of advertisers they called him anti-semitic which is ridiculous before he even had a chance to do one thing about that site so i've heard from a lot of those folks um and it's not so much look when you talk about free speech free speech applies to advertisers as well they get to associate with whoever they want to no matter what so sure so there there are um unless there's a unless there's a uh a collusive effort going on to sort of organize no and i get that organization just resolved immediately so there weren't but look i could from my own self right i don't understand why you won't give him credit for believing in free speech that's clearly i don't have no problem with free speech look i've always said people like get rid of the anti-semitic people you get anti-semitic tropes i get you know zillions of anti-semitic tropes you know in my in my replies just they're non-stop i mean i'm not white you know my grandparents changed their name to from chabinski to cuban not even intentionally and so it's always your real name is chabinski white there's just the hate there is insane and my attitude has always been i want to know who the morons are i have no problem with them still being allowed on the platform but the trade-off is for advertisers they don't want to be associated with that there is no upside for being on twitter right now or excellent right now and you add to that the porn kids 13 years old can go on that site and you can find any insane thing you want on x right now and that also is a problem for advertisers that's part of free speech but you got to pay the bill when you're willing to accept that i don't think he realized just how deep users will go in order to use their free speech and i think that really surprised him and so that's why i don't think that he bought it specifically for free speech because i think he's always one of the things i really admire i don't know i mean he said he said before he bought it that he was going to open it up as a free speech platform and this is why hold on this is why the left immediately started boycotting him before he even changed one policy jake out help me out you were there well i know for a fact this was a free speech mission for him i do think you know multiple things can be true mark you are correct that if you have spicy content advertisers don't want anything to do with it and they have choices and it's also one of the smaller platforms so they have choices that have more scale so that makes it even easier and it's also true that they're boycotting him and specifically targeting but all these things are happening at the same time that's fair and i and i think you know when you look at what he's done there we'll look at it historically as this place that was very controlled and clean and owned by the press and the elites became this chaotic thing but also ultimately the one place where at scale you cannot be cancelled and you know if you look at cancellation as a concept the number one place to get cancelled was twitter you said something even slightly off man they came down on you they destroyed you and that now that we've gotten rid of cancel culture and people can say what they believe and people can make them i don't know why it's necessary to find you think i don't know let me just finish the thought i do think that that will be looked at as a beautiful thing that he gave to society as a gift and it will be looked at as a really challenged business because it was an ad business that lost its advertising base and apple and disney have choices i don't see the need here to look past or to look for an ulterior motive and what elon's doing elon believes in free speech it's very clear he's run the platform that way and it's costing money so what else could the motivation be except his principles obviously but he was also addicted to it i can tell you that as the person who got him i know but that's not that's not why he's running as a free speech let me give you my counter to that you know him better than i do why are we even having this debate who cares i mean i know i'm just curious yeah he's running as a free speech platform yeah and that's fine obviously it's his choice that that's free speech by definition actually to me this debate is is kind of pointless but let's let's talk about actually the the issue there's a new story this week where open ai just raised was a 6 billion yeah 150 valuation um they originally started that enterprise with 50 million or so from elon it was a non-profit then they became a for-profit now there's a report saying that they're telling investors in this round that they can't invest in any other ai companies so they're acting like i mean they've gone from non-profit philanthropy to piranha for-profit company it's pretty sharp elbow sam yeah sharp elbow sam said he wasn't going to take compensation now he's getting compensation yep 10 billion i mean what do you think about this i mean look it's their company they get to do what they want period of false pretenses i mean if they don't but but don't invest i mean they shouldn't invest he gave them a donation let me which leads to something i want to say very positive about elon put aside his genius in coming up and running these companies the one thing i i respect the most about elon musk and he does more than anybody i've ever seen and that is he goes all in he doesn't just you know he takes every cent he has and he believes in it and he goes all mother in he never hedges his bet at all until twitter right that's why i say you know he brought in investors you know he brought investors to tesla and everything but initially he went all in himself you know i think with twitter i think he was kind of surprised but going back to open ai i don't i wouldn't do business with people like that and there are people who just look for what they think is the next big thing and i certainly could have given them money didn't give them money i said one of our funds that i'm in gate did give them money originally didn't give them money another time to me that's just wrong and that catches up to you when people over investors and whatever it always comes back karma's a in business too now you know gemini with google i've done a lot of stuff with them notebook is insanely good gemini 1.5 is insanely good meta as open source and what they're doing is getting better and better there is no you know it there's nothing that says that open ai is going to win nothing at all and so i don't feel bad about what they're doing and to me it tells me they're more scared than anything by trying to restrict what people are doing yep that's your perspective it says it's more a reflection of sam than anything else is right is what you're saying yep well i mean that would be reflected in the fact that so many people who are the co-founders have left yeah um that that's a really big red flag this thing is going to change the world and every all the co-founders leave i heard 40 of the 44 co-founders left yeah with the original employees yeah i mean i don't know if that's true but that's bonkers and then if you well i mean if you also think about this business chamath and where it's headed sorry there were three there were 44 co-founders around the donald trump cabinet members thing yeah yeah no but i mean if you if you we we did a joke about it last week but if you just look at the the competition set that they're up against they're losing 5 billion a year they're making three and a half they put this thing at 150 billion it's 40 times 50 times revenue to fill in that valuation on price to sales basis you know it's kind of crazy here's the one thing that i'll say and i think mark said this in a different way but i'll just i don't think you can underestimate how companies like google microsoft facebook apple amazon will react when they feel cornered and i think in in the last 20 or 25 years what you've seen is those companies when their backs are against the wall they use money they're sharp elbowed but the consistent thing is they've won and so the real question is do people look at the chart of the users because typically what happens is it's users what tilts these companies when something some upstart you remember when snapchat was about to explode yeah there was a decision we're going to decapitate this company facebook effectively did that they relegated it to zynga yep zynga there's many examples so the real question is when they see that this app is going to be at three or five hundred million mal and they appear on some list where they're bigger than i don't know pick your favorite app inside of meta ever yeah ever yeah will they freak out and if they do freak out what do they do oh i can tell you they're freaking right now oh yeah it's an ex it's an existential risk to them right and the craze i mean look what microsoft did they bought three mile island the nuclear reactor they bought it everybody is looking for the angle and the crazy it's really good yes there used to be moore's law that everything followed right the price performance curve always went like this you know and power goes up now because you don't know you don't know what you don't know and what you need to do next that's part of the challenge that um elon has with tesla in terms of full service driving you don't know what you need to do next to get there to solve every problem do you have a tesla mark i do and i do also i also have a kia ev i have a tesla ev and i have a kia ev do you use the fsd and if so how is it what i have but i stopped using it just because it terrified me um because it doesn't know what adversarial things that doesn't know because you know you know anything that's adversarial that something that has to train on something that's seen and it's not smart enough to um figure out what it hasn't seen and whether or not it's a risk and i've said this before my my um four-year-old mini australian shepherd i can put it in a risky situation to cross the street and trust it'll get across the street no matter what it is it doesn't have to be pre-trained you can't do that with um full service driving yet and so until that gets to where it needs to be where adversarial issues aren't an issue i'm not going to fully trust it i have the 12.

all right guys i gotta i gotta go mark thank you you've been really fun to talk to so good talking to you this has been overtime with the all-in podcast with mark cuban we'll see you all next time you got it guys thanks so much love you boys we'll let your winners ride rain man david sacks and it said we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it west i'm queen of kinoa i'm going all in let your winners ride what what your winners ride let your winners ride besties are gone gold 13th that is my uh dog taking a listen your driveway oh man we should all just get a room and just have it one big huge orgy because they're all just useless it's like this like sexual tension but they just need to release somehow what you're the beat what you're the beat we need to get mercies are back i'm going all in you Thank you.