back to indexLeaving Judgment and Loving Others ft. Judah Smith
00:00:03.240 |
- Welcome to another episode of Curious Mike. 00:00:20.600 |
Your haircut looks absolutely sensational right now. 00:00:28.760 |
you're one of the most humble and good human beings 00:00:50.900 |
- Yeah, I think of course the right answer is no, I didn't, 00:00:58.920 |
that I wanted to make a big difference in people's lives, 00:01:03.740 |
feel like they could do what God put in them to do, 00:01:09.800 |
is we want to make people feel like they can fly. 00:01:15.760 |
And I have to credit Michael Jordan, come fly with me. 00:01:27.000 |
and to be honest, I wanted to be a youth pastor 00:01:31.520 |
And then stuff happened with my dad and his health, 00:01:33.720 |
and so I kind of got tricked into the lead pastor thing. 00:01:39.080 |
is still probably the funnest part of what I get to do. 00:01:52.120 |
you just wish you could live a different life? 00:01:55.120 |
- Yeah, I think probably like all of us, right? 00:02:13.060 |
is when your kids get a little bit hurt, you know? 00:02:16.480 |
They're like, "Yo, Dad, so-and-so not like us anymore." 00:02:20.000 |
Or, "I think there's some people that don't like you." 00:02:27.560 |
And I don't blame people for criticizing and critiquing. 00:02:32.240 |
They care deeply about integrity and character and morality. 00:02:35.080 |
And these are things that I care about deeply as well. 00:02:42.360 |
"you can't actually hold some sort of standard 00:02:46.640 |
But actually, you can, and we're endeavoring to do that. 00:02:51.780 |
It comes with its challenges, but I chose it, man. 00:02:58.360 |
You brought up how they can ask you questions 00:03:04.600 |
Do you ever worry about your kids being pastor's kids 00:03:07.840 |
and the challenges that kind of come along with that? 00:03:18.440 |
And you know what it's like when your parents 00:03:20.680 |
are example Christians, like Christian examples. 00:03:25.860 |
You and all your brothers and sisters are like, 00:03:29.180 |
And so you know what that's like, and it is challenging. 00:04:03.020 |
- They're very like, yeah, I've been around them. 00:04:09.060 |
- Yeah, for me growing up, I was homeschooled 00:04:12.520 |
And I remember going into school in eighth grade 00:04:15.340 |
and literally, I didn't know what was going on. 00:04:24.500 |
And so that point that you bring up about exposure, 00:04:38.800 |
I will go on record on Curious Mike right now 00:04:41.540 |
and just say they have raised some of the most considerate, 00:04:55.740 |
And it's not easy to raise kids these days, man. 00:04:59.700 |
- But you're an incredible example, for sure. 00:05:07.420 |
your own temptations, as you grew into the limelight, 00:05:22.860 |
But I know everyone's human, so what do you deal with? 00:05:28.160 |
just has to be addressed, has to be identified, mitigated. 00:05:33.160 |
I think there are things that I just won't do 00:05:49.460 |
I'm like, "Well, I don't know if I trust that." 00:05:51.740 |
You know, 'cause you really gotta be honest with yourself. 00:05:53.620 |
So I don't travel alone, I don't meet with women one-on-one, 00:06:02.500 |
I just, for me, a commitment, I'm a one-woman kind of guy. 00:06:09.660 |
To say that there's no temptation there is silly, 00:06:12.020 |
of course, but I made a commitment with my heart, 00:06:24.220 |
And obviously, I pray for you almost every day. 00:06:27.540 |
And when I do, I constantly think of the unique challenges 00:06:32.700 |
a handsome professional athlete, I might add. 00:06:38.220 |
but he was rated the best-looking Denver Nugget on the team. 00:06:45.300 |
And I had to inform him, that's how humble this man is. 00:06:47.780 |
He didn't even know that you won the fan vote, 00:06:52.680 |
- But there is unique temptations, isn't there, 00:06:54.340 |
that come with leadership and people that know you. 00:06:57.620 |
And so it's like before the emotion of a beautiful woman, 00:07:16.700 |
I'll never forget, I told my future father-in-law 00:07:23.300 |
to marry his daughter, he said, "What's your greatest fear?" 00:07:27.500 |
"I don't know if I'm gonna tell him the truth." 00:07:29.980 |
He goes, "Mine is suicide that I will commit." 00:07:37.380 |
"I think that's honest, I better match that." 00:07:39.860 |
And I said, "My greatest fear is that I would cheat 00:07:42.440 |
"on your daughter if I had the honor to marry her." 00:07:56.540 |
and I'm gonna set this thing in motion in an honest way, 00:07:59.340 |
or I'm gonna give him number two greatest fear 00:08:03.020 |
And I was like, "Nah, I'm just gonna go for it." 00:08:06.540 |
And he felt like my awareness that I could do that 00:08:19.260 |
and they can do anything, be around anything, 00:08:33.180 |
those temptations, they're not going anywhere. 00:09:19.840 |
but they always are posting your guys' clothes 00:09:23.100 |
or your shoes and they're putting the price tag 00:09:41.600 |
are condemning towards pastors that wear nice things 00:09:59.660 |
at my friends and more kind of the role in culture 00:10:04.660 |
that pastors hold and they're having a go at it. 00:10:21.020 |
and I don't like it, is that 'cause it's kinda true? 00:10:26.020 |
well, what would be some truth here in this approach? 00:10:34.380 |
You don't know how people got those Gucci shoes 00:10:37.820 |
or got that, not that it necessarily matters, 00:10:49.780 |
'Cause who knows if their so-and-so grandmother 00:11:03.580 |
and you choose to spend money on eating out all the time 00:11:07.360 |
or somebody else chooses it on a shirt they like, 00:11:10.260 |
well, hey, that's tough to start making calls on that, 00:11:18.900 |
So, but I do think the truth that I really took to heart 00:11:30.500 |
And that's about the love of Jesus and the love of God. 00:11:33.340 |
And so, I actually kind of put my arms around the whole thing 00:11:42.460 |
And I think this might have gotten a little out of control. 00:11:47.740 |
to be completely candid, preachers and sneakers. 00:11:50.320 |
The approach is not necessarily what I prefer, 00:11:53.140 |
preachers and sneakers, and the young man who started it 00:11:55.620 |
has become someone that I would consider friendly, you know? 00:12:00.180 |
But yeah, I would never do that to my friends. 00:12:08.820 |
That's not my approach, but I do think that as a preacher 00:12:16.240 |
fashion is always, I was raised by a strong mother 00:12:26.100 |
but I found other ways to express that passion, 00:12:28.300 |
and Amazon Essentials is my new favorite brand. 00:12:38.960 |
Like, if I wanna spend my money on shoes, I'm gonna do it. 00:12:40.940 |
But you kind of took it, and your conclusion was like, 00:12:43.640 |
I'm gonna try to at least change it a little bit. 00:12:52.260 |
And I saw your interview with Lecrae, for sure, 00:12:55.380 |
and I just love that man so much and respect him so much. 00:12:58.100 |
I think, I listen to Lecrae, and I feel a similar pain 00:13:02.760 |
Not in any means am I saying that I'm this incredible, 00:13:07.300 |
He's incredible, but I think there's that pain of like, 00:13:18.000 |
but he loved people, and so I love standing on a stage, 00:13:21.780 |
telling people about Jesus, and then their eyes lighting up. 00:13:24.340 |
Or even like, you and Ciara have been in services, 00:13:31.200 |
So, if somebody comes to me, even abruptly and as abrasive, 00:13:36.200 |
and says, your clothes are a distraction to helping people. 00:13:44.680 |
'Cause if there is, how easy for me to change my shirt? 00:13:50.820 |
Now, start, you know, quoting and judging people 00:13:54.100 |
on the amount of money they make and all of that. 00:14:14.140 |
Did he kind of see how his actions were hurting people 00:14:32.020 |
And between me and you, I was like, what did you do? 00:14:36.340 |
I just like, I'm not on social media that much. 00:14:42.620 |
and I was like, oh, yeah, bro, that's not good. 00:14:51.380 |
And I was like, oh, bro, thanks for saying that. 00:14:55.780 |
And so, man, I'm down with anybody who's like, 00:15:12.220 |
So, obviously, he wasn't trying to come off the way he was. 00:15:21.940 |
people don't understand, like, as celebrities 00:15:24.580 |
or whatever you wanna call it, like, we see stuff. 00:15:27.580 |
When people are talking whatever, like, we see stuff. 00:15:40.060 |
can put out in the world is how judgmental we can be 00:15:42.700 |
and how, like, we think that we're better than people 00:15:49.420 |
Or we just, we put judgment out in the world. 00:15:51.580 |
And I think, like, that is one of the worst things 00:16:02.020 |
And I'm reminded of that story where Jesus goes to, 00:16:30.860 |
So not Nicodemus, that's a great story as well. 00:16:45.900 |
about judgment and putting people in categories 00:16:48.840 |
and assuming upon people based on a curse word, 00:16:51.780 |
based on a cigarette, based on a rated R movie 00:16:54.640 |
that they don't know God for these arbitrary, 00:16:57.500 |
natural, fleshly things, is really unheard of 00:17:00.940 |
in the lifestyle and trajectory and ministry of Jesus. 00:17:03.180 |
For instance, Zacchaeus, he goes to Zacchaeus' house, 00:17:06.220 |
and we're actually not even told the details, Mike. 00:17:08.980 |
We're not told the details, except that we know 00:17:10.720 |
at the end, basically, of the scene that we're told, 00:17:22.560 |
"I'm gonna give back double all that I've stolen," 00:17:27.620 |
And my point is, Nicodemus saw something in Jesus 00:17:46.800 |
he'd be one of the big Ponzi scheme guys today 00:17:53.780 |
By the way, to go to dinner with somebody in those days 00:17:55.820 |
was one of the most intimate things you could do. 00:17:57.660 |
It's like posting on Instagram, "This is my guy." 00:18:02.580 |
Jesus didn't care, he went to his house, he loved him, 00:18:08.420 |
not by the change of his outward decorum or demeanor, 00:18:20.660 |
I think Christianity has colluded with the culture 00:18:30.820 |
Like, we come up with, that's not in the Bible. 00:18:33.100 |
That's not, those categories were not given by Jesus. 00:18:36.780 |
And I get very concerned when it comes from Christians 00:18:47.700 |
where people make judgment calls on public figures. 00:18:53.140 |
Well, I know so-and-so, they're not a believer. 00:18:57.300 |
Like, so I've had preachers call out in their sermons 00:19:03.140 |
and I've had to call them on the phone and say, 00:19:10.180 |
I go, "Well, actually, I have, and that's my friend." 00:19:16.120 |
to make a judgment call to your congregation. 00:19:18.840 |
But Mike, that's where we're at in some cases. 00:19:22.020 |
and we're treating them like cartoon characters 00:19:26.560 |
And the story you just brought up about Zacharias. 00:19:30.260 |
- Nicodemus, I know, I got us all mixed up now. 00:19:38.320 |
- But not, like, Jesus hung with the sinners. 00:19:42.280 |
- And he, you know, he would go to dinner with them. 00:19:46.180 |
And then because he was so unconditionally loving 00:19:49.080 |
towards them, like, that's what changed their hearts 00:19:51.940 |
I think, I think, like, people get it misconstrued today, 00:20:04.040 |
you know, this is something I'm kind of confused about, 00:20:08.900 |
- It says, like, if you don't do the right things, 00:20:26.240 |
- To be honest, the distinction that is imperative 00:20:37.880 |
that are, like, fruits of repentance, for instance? 00:20:40.520 |
Like, you will show that you have changed your mind 00:20:45.640 |
and you'll demonstrate that you believe that, 00:20:49.080 |
because your actions decorum and demeanor will change, 00:20:55.940 |
how can we marry that to the trajectory of Jesus' ministry 00:21:03.600 |
- But no, but this is a really important question, 00:21:06.680 |
So the distinction would be arbitrary timetables 00:21:18.080 |
evangelicals and Christians think in weekends, 00:21:22.880 |
and we actually kinda need to meet somewhere in the middle, 00:21:31.720 |
Now, a lot of people in Christendom would say, 00:21:34.120 |
yo, Mike, your buddy Judah, that's your best friend, 00:21:36.900 |
and now I'm making us best friends, this is very convenient, 00:21:39.600 |
but they would say to you, that's your best friend, 00:21:43.200 |
your best friend's doing this, this, this, this, and this. 00:22:02.360 |
So the Bible makes it very clear, you can't save me, 00:22:07.960 |
and you can serve me, and over a process of time, 00:22:11.640 |
What those well-meaning Christian friends mean is, 00:22:21.720 |
are causing us to try to force people to become Christian, 00:22:25.240 |
we're trying to force people to understand Jesus, 00:22:30.920 |
If I was trying to peddle a man-made religion, 00:22:34.300 |
I would have to coerce, force, manipulate, right, 00:22:38.040 |
all of this, but either, is God God, or is he not? 00:22:45.020 |
I have so many friends still that don't know Jesus, 00:22:48.840 |
it bothers people that I'm a pastor and a preacher, 00:22:52.960 |
that still don't believe what I believe, right? 00:22:55.040 |
I see, we've seen thousands of people saved in our church 00:23:01.640 |
but, but what an honor to, I'm playing the long game, 00:23:05.380 |
so like, I got friends right now who are 38, 32, 37, 00:23:25.240 |
that's your, that's your son, that's your daughter, 00:23:27.880 |
so you're gonna have to show yourself to them. 00:23:35.880 |
so I can't convince them, so that's up to you. 00:23:42.280 |
like I would try so hard to, just myself even, 00:23:47.800 |
outwardly do certain things, and it got to the point 00:24:09.880 |
but a lot of times, they came all the way back around, 00:24:32.040 |
and then what's the point of being a Christian, 00:24:34.320 |
But when God changes, and you're continuously 00:24:36.240 |
like looking at him to like change your heart 00:24:39.360 |
and mold your heart, it takes so much of the pressure off, 00:24:41.800 |
and that's the real joy of being a Christian, 00:24:50.040 |
to become Christians, but we can love 'em unconditionally, 00:24:56.640 |
I was reading in John 13, it's verses 34 and 35, 00:25:01.400 |
and it says, Jesus says, I give you a new commandment, 00:25:18.320 |
and here's what I discovered, here's the new part. 00:25:20.320 |
Comma, love one another the way I have loved you, 00:25:25.040 |
and here's such a gross misunderstanding about Christianity. 00:25:29.920 |
The essence of the Christian journey is impossible, 00:25:35.680 |
We think in our own effort, in our own strength. 00:25:38.560 |
Do you know what Jesus requires to follow him? 00:25:40.880 |
Total and complete surrender, which is to say, 00:25:49.040 |
I'm empty, I'm broken, I'm weak, and I can barely, 00:25:53.640 |
I'm struggling to accept myself, to love myself, 00:25:59.800 |
That's why the Bible says, love your neighbor as yourself. 00:26:02.620 |
We can't even love ourselves without the help of Jesus. 00:26:06.680 |
Bro, I've had so many sleepless nights where I've wondered, 00:26:09.880 |
am I ever going to fix this temptation, these challenges, 00:26:30.080 |
That's why Jesus said, I want you to love each other. 00:26:37.040 |
'cause I said, Jesus, that is impossible for me 00:26:44.280 |
this life of following you and loving people is impossible. 00:27:12.800 |
I had some other questions that were less deep, but-- 00:27:15.400 |
- Bring it on, let's do it, whatever you want. 00:27:26.360 |
in the way you just support each other and everything. 00:27:32.340 |
and what to look for in a girl and eventually a wife? 00:27:34.980 |
Like, what's the main things you want to look for? 00:27:37.020 |
And talk to me, too, 'cause I'm looking, too. 00:27:39.940 |
- Yeah, we're gonna turn Curious Mike into Seeking Mike. 00:27:49.780 |
We're gonna turn Curious Mike into Searching Mike. 00:27:55.900 |
Well, I think, first of all, quite literally, 00:27:59.720 |
the first approach has to be, hey, would I marry me? 00:28:05.360 |
I think that's where this whole conversation starts. 00:28:10.260 |
Like, am I a good, like, for instance, right? 00:28:20.240 |
who is empathetic, caring, strong, knows who she is. 00:28:33.860 |
you like fashion, style, like all these things you want, 00:28:37.040 |
Here's what's funny, is you project that with your own life. 00:28:43.380 |
that there is some magnetism involved that's just natural. 00:28:48.340 |
if you project empathy, being a good listener, 00:29:01.660 |
You're going to be, what's going to attract to you 00:29:05.400 |
is women who are like, who like to roll that way. 00:29:17.820 |
is that you got single adults rolling around going, 00:29:23.940 |
man, I went on this date, I was so angry at this girl, 00:29:35.420 |
So if she feels your tension, now she feels guarded, 00:29:40.860 |
As opposed to, I'm going to give this date a chance. 00:29:46.580 |
I'm going to, and I would just urge men and women everywhere 00:29:53.140 |
like, man, allow yourself to begin to develop, 00:30:06.980 |
So Chelsea and I have a little contest when we travel, 00:30:15.500 |
But we would go to dinner with the host preacher 00:30:18.900 |
and we would always make sure that in the dinner 00:30:37.920 |
But playing the game taught me a way of living. 00:30:53.440 |
But unselfish concern is, gosh, I just love you for you. 00:31:05.140 |
- That's you're like, God, you gotta help me. 00:31:11.540 |
because you're friends with a lot of celebrities. 00:31:13.860 |
You know, you've helped Justin along the way a lot. 00:31:16.820 |
What about a dude like me where I'm in the NBA, 00:31:34.940 |
a lot of us don't even know girls' intentions. 00:31:37.820 |
We can't decipher, 'cause they could put up a front. 00:31:45.540 |
but you don't really know what you're marrying 00:32:07.580 |
God, I'm afraid that I am going to get involved 00:32:16.180 |
That's a start, number one, is express to God. 00:32:20.340 |
My favorite thing to do to ask a dating couple 00:32:25.580 |
okay, greatest fears about the relationship go, 00:32:39.860 |
you've been an open book, which I love that about you. 00:32:42.300 |
I think it's an incredibly endearing quality. 00:33:01.500 |
but I've never been a woman, and neither have you, 00:33:03.180 |
and so sometimes I feel a little bit out of depth, 00:33:32.480 |
but simply to say, hey, if you and I are gonna work, 00:33:38.160 |
Here's what I value, and here's what I'm about, 00:33:45.760 |
I would put something very vulnerable on the table, 00:33:48.620 |
and I would see if that vulnerability was met, 00:33:53.580 |
at least you perceive to the best of your ability 00:33:57.820 |
you might have just stumbled on a very special person, 00:34:00.780 |
because typically, when somebody shares vulnerability, 00:34:11.220 |
and maybe a giggle, we barely know each other, 00:34:15.220 |
and it's like, okay, this person has some walls up, 00:34:24.100 |
and I know you want a woman who's very honest and open, 00:34:27.820 |
so that you guys can connect at a deep level. 00:34:31.220 |
- I mean, that's like my, that's my best Dr. Phil, 00:34:37.060 |
My last question for you, and then we'll wrap it up. 00:34:43.080 |
and you had to preach a sermon to the entire world, 00:34:45.140 |
and everyone's tuned in, like, listening just to you, 00:35:01.660 |
probably just hasn't been preaching very long. 00:35:08.500 |
do you ever think about what your last shot will be? 00:35:11.420 |
Like, you know, I just watched Michael's last Chicago shot. 00:35:18.500 |
hits that shot, and Bob Costas or somebody says, 00:35:42.780 |
he goes to Thessalonica, then he goes to Berea, 00:36:05.860 |
and it says he was compelled by all of the idol worship 00:36:13.860 |
and there was just one idol, and it was unnamed, 00:36:19.940 |
and I mean, I could almost get emotional about it. 00:36:22.900 |
Paul gets an audience because he was a genius 00:36:31.420 |
and I think the reason, the ultimate reason I preach 00:36:38.080 |
is 'cause I still think the country I was born in 00:36:46.860 |
and there's an unknown God, and he's the true God, 00:36:52.220 |
and what I mean is we know some of the customs, 00:37:07.040 |
in certain tones and things, we're used to bands now, 00:37:16.080 |
we're used to getting coffees at churches now, 00:37:45.780 |
What big recording artist has ever hit it big 00:38:16.180 |
to get out to the world is yes, and yes, and yes, 00:38:21.180 |
and what we're saying is we can prove it, too, 00:38:47.740 |
who physically walked this earth 2,000 years ago, 00:38:55.260 |
He has revealed the creator of heaven and earth to us, 00:39:05.460 |
yes, for me, yes, for my wife, yes, for my kids, 00:39:55.380 |
- Like you said, bro, that's what it's about, man, 00:39:57.580 |
so I haven't done this on any of the other ones, 00:40:01.620 |
I just wanna ask, do you think that we could just pray 00:40:13.940 |
God, I thank you so much for, first of all, this man. 00:40:18.620 |
Thank you for the opportunity to do this podcast, 00:40:21.300 |
and more than anything, together, Mike and I just pray 00:40:24.260 |
for each and every person watching this right now, 00:40:45.020 |
Jesus, help us to show the world who you are and what you do. 00:40:50.020 |
I thank you so much for the opportunity to talk 00:40:53.860 |
and be here with Mike, and we pray all this in Jesus' name.