Does Depression Disqualify a Pastor?

00:00:00.000 | Well, does depression disqualify a pastor?

00:00:09.360 | It's a serious question.

00:00:10.960 | It's a very heavy question and it comes to us from a podcast listener named Kyle.

00:00:14.880 | Hello Pastor John.

00:00:15.880 | At what point, if any, does depression and/or joylessness disqualify an elder?

00:00:23.200 | Or when might these become reasons for an elder to step down out of a desire to most

00:00:28.120 | wisely serve his congregation?

00:00:30.440 | What would you say to Kyle, Pastor John?

00:00:33.160 | Let me begin by affirming that Kyle is right to suggest that there is a point at which

00:00:41.480 | joylessness does disqualify an elder.

00:00:45.320 | A lot of people don't think of that.

00:00:48.000 | So he's right to point this out.

00:00:50.800 | But we have to be so careful here because joy is subjective.

00:00:56.280 | It's a subjective reality.

00:00:58.200 | It's no less real and no less important for that.

00:01:01.840 | But it manifests itself in various ways.

00:01:05.760 | It manifests itself in degrees of presence.

00:01:09.560 | And so putting our finger on it is not easy.

00:01:13.560 | And so I think we should be slow and careful before we declare anybody unqualified for

00:01:20.920 | their ministry because of it.

00:01:23.160 | So let me just point to, I don't know, three or four things that Kyle might take into consideration

00:01:30.120 | as he ponders this or the rest of us.

00:01:32.680 | Number one, Hebrews 13, 17 says, "Obey your leaders, submit to them for they are keeping

00:01:38.860 | watch over your souls as those who will have to give an account.

00:01:43.240 | Let them do this with joy."

00:01:46.540 | So let your leaders lead, let your pastor and elders lead with joy, not with groaning,

00:01:53.680 | for that would be of no advantage to you.

00:01:57.800 | In other words, a chronically joyless pastor is of no advantage, no benefit to his people,

00:02:08.960 | which means there comes a point where for the people's sake, he should step down or

00:02:15.240 | step back.

00:02:16.960 | So this is just to say, Kyle, thank you for taking this seriously.

00:02:21.000 | Hebrews 13, 17 says so.

00:02:24.420 | Number two, there are two places where Paul says that his whole ministry is devoted to

00:02:32.280 | the joy of his people.

00:02:34.480 | Second Corinthians 1.24, "Not that we lord it over your faith, but we work with you for

00:02:39.120 | your joy."

00:02:40.920 | And Philippians 1.25, "I know that I will remain and continue with you all for your

00:02:46.000 | progress and joy of the faith."

00:02:49.480 | So that was Paul's apostolic mission, to seek the joy of other people.

00:02:53.840 | And I think it's the calling on every pastor and every elder to work for the joy of their

00:02:58.920 | people.

00:03:00.380 | And if their own inability to rejoice in the Lord hinders that, there may come a time when

00:03:07.520 | they are not able to fulfill that calling.

00:03:12.160 | Third, the pastor and elder who aim to help their people obey the Lord will need to help

00:03:21.400 | them rejoice in tribulation, because that's what it says in Romans 5.3.

00:03:27.440 | We rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance and endurance

00:03:32.380 | produces character, character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame because

00:03:37.760 | the love of God is poured out in our hearts.

00:03:39.760 | So elders are called to be examples to the flock, 1 Peter 5, and if we can't rejoice

00:03:46.960 | in our own sufferings, like Romans 5.3 says, how are we going to help our people obey the

00:03:55.120 | scriptures, that is, fulfill our calling, to set an example for them and help them?

00:04:00.440 | One last illustration of how this works, 2 Corinthians 8, 1 and 2.

00:04:08.700 | We want you to know, brothers, about the grace of God that was given among the churches of

00:04:13.380 | Macedonia, for in a severe test of affliction, their abundance of joy and their extreme poverty

00:04:22.580 | have overflowed in a wealth of generosity.

00:04:25.580 | Now what that text says is that love that is overflowing in a wealth of generosity to

00:04:31.240 | those in need around us, love is the overflow of abundance of joy in God, not joy in overcoming

00:04:40.200 | poverty, not joy in escaping affliction, because both of those are mentioned right there alongside

00:04:46.700 | joy.

00:04:47.700 | So an elder who wants his people to love other people, that is to overflow in joy for them

00:04:54.120 | in the midst of affliction, in the midst of poverty, has to be able to set the example

00:04:59.400 | for that himself.

00:05:01.340 | So here are a few concluding observations that might help Kyle and others find some

00:05:10.520 | guidance of when to step down or when to step back.

00:05:13.880 | Number one, be sure to distinguish between a temporary dullness of spirit and a growing

00:05:20.480 | bitterness of spirit.

00:05:22.360 | Both dullness and bitterness can rob us of joy, but what a world of difference.

00:05:28.400 | Dullness may mean we're wrestling with nature, something in our bodies or in our circumstances.

00:05:36.480 | Bitterness means that we're giving in to sin and the people know the difference.

00:05:41.800 | They'll taste the difference.

00:05:43.360 | The broken hearted pastor who's in a season of dullness will cry out to God affectionately

00:05:50.840 | for his mercy and many of his people will deeply appreciate his cry.

00:05:57.200 | They'll resonate with it.

00:05:58.400 | They'll be thankful for an honest, heartfelt cry from their pastor's soul to God.

00:06:05.660 | But the pastor who is giving in to joylessness out of anger and bitterness, he does nobody

00:06:11.640 | any good.

00:06:13.040 | Number two, seek to discern the roots of your loss of joy.

00:06:20.000 | If there is hidden sin, for example, it will definitely rob a pastor of his spiritual delights

00:06:27.820 | in God.

00:06:28.900 | No pastor should tolerate that in his own soul.

00:06:31.900 | He should make war on his sin.

00:06:34.320 | And if he can't get the victory, then he needs to draw his elders into it with him, his fellow

00:06:40.560 | elders and confess his need for help.

00:06:44.080 | But there may be other hard things besides sin that his elders see, and they're going

00:06:51.340 | to cut him a lot of slack here while they help him get through this season.

00:06:56.600 | Third suggestion, a key question is whether you can still preach the tone of the text

00:07:04.460 | in your loss of joy, or is your own emotional state such that it controls all of your demeanor?

00:07:13.820 | Here's what I mean.

00:07:14.820 | I found over the decades of preaching that even though my private life at times was filled

00:07:22.280 | with sorrow, real heartache, and I had to preach the next Sunday, I found that the text

00:07:31.040 | really did in that moment create its own emotions in me that were real and authentic.

00:07:39.820 | Can you still do that?

00:07:40.980 | Can that happen for you?

00:07:42.820 | This is not hypocrisy.

00:07:44.320 | This is not fake it till you make it.

00:07:47.020 | This is a real supernatural experience of emotion by the Holy Spirit wrought by that

00:07:54.220 | text in the hour of preaching.

00:07:57.380 | And just two more possible suggestions.

00:08:01.440 | Another key question is, are you able still to feel sweet affection for your people?

00:08:09.180 | Do they sense that?

00:08:11.060 | If so, your season of darkness may be a balm to them because they will know that your affection

00:08:20.300 | is rooted in your confidence in the gospel.

00:08:23.740 | And the last thing I would say is how long has the struggle of seeming darkness or dullness

00:08:31.700 | or heaviness, joylessness gone on?

00:08:34.320 | That matters.

00:08:35.900 | And out of all those five suggestions there at the end, out of all those questions, the

00:08:42.820 | answer might be that you would ask for a sabbatical, or it might be that you'd seek help in some

00:08:49.700 | other way.

00:08:50.700 | It might be that resignation from the eldership would be a last resort.

00:08:57.900 | And I think it should be a last resort, especially for the vocational elder whose resignation

00:09:04.700 | would be a huge upheaval for the people.

00:09:07.980 | So share your struggle with a trusted friend and see whether what I've said here or other

00:09:14.660 | things they might point out, whether that gives you wisdom for this season.

00:09:20.820 | Very good and careful words, Pastor John.

00:09:22.340 | Thank you.

00:09:23.340 | And we talked about the dark season that you faced, a midlife crisis of sorts back in episode

00:09:28.580 | 1173.

00:09:30.380 | My Midlife Crisis and Counsel for Yours is a great episode, 1173 in the archive.

00:09:36.820 | And Hebrews 13, 17 is such a rich passage and that has come up several times in the

00:09:42.100 | APJ archives.

00:09:43.100 | Here's just a few examples.

00:09:45.020 | It came up in episode 1143 to discourage pastors and their wives.

00:09:49.980 | It also appeared in episode 433, should I commit to one church?

00:09:54.900 | And also in episode 297, do podcast preachers make my pastor irrelevant?

00:10:01.420 | All three of those episodes, Hebrews 13, 17 comes up.

00:10:05.380 | Over at our online home, you can explore all of those old episodes and scan a list of our

00:10:09.500 | most popular ones, read full transcripts, even send us a question of your own.

00:10:12.740 | Go to DesiringGod.org/AskPastorJohn and get new episodes delivered to you three times

00:10:18.540 | per week.

00:10:19.540 | Subscribe to the Ask Pastor John podcast and your favorite podcast app.

00:10:22.220 | Well, I'm not sure what's coming up next time, but whatever it is, we'll see you on Friday.

00:10:26.660 | I'm your host Tony Reinke.

00:10:27.660 | Thanks for listening to the Ask Pastor John podcast with longtime author and pastor John

00:10:31.980 | Piper.

00:10:32.980 | We'll see you next time.

00:10:32.980 | Bye-bye.

00:10:37.980 | [music]

Does Depression Disqualify a Pastor?

Chapters