RPF0256-Jeff_Goins

00:00:00.000 | Today in radical personal finance we talk art and the work of art

00:00:25.760 | Welcome to the radical personal finance podcast. My name is Joshua sheets, and I'm your host. Thank you for being with me today

00:00:30.320 | This is the show where each and every day we try to break down the mysteries of life

00:00:34.640 | Well, at least as far as they pertain to finance and one of those mysteries is how do you make money doing something that you love?

00:00:42.880 | that you really care about and

00:00:45.520 | How do you make a transition from something you don't love to something that you do?

00:00:50.360 | My guest today has done exactly that

00:00:53.400 | Jeff

00:00:55.400 | Coins is a really interesting guy. I was able to catch up with him recently at the fin con 2015 conference

00:01:03.680 | That was where this interview was recorded where he was a speaker and he's also written a new book on

00:01:09.120 | The challenge of finding work that you love and it's it's really a useful topic as it relates to personal finance

00:01:17.800 | The title of the book is the art of work a proven path to discovering what you are meant to do

00:01:23.940 | And I know this is something that many of you find yourselves challenged by any of us

00:01:28.760 | I should include myself in that many of us find ourselves challenged by how do we discover?

00:01:34.200 | where we're best suited to spend our time and

00:01:38.280 | Jeff's book might be a valuable resource for you, but even better than the book today. I have the author himself

00:01:44.680 | So when you can know the author and you don't have to deal with just the book, it's even better

00:01:49.080 | So we'll get to the interview just a moment before we do right before the interview starts

00:01:52.640 | Let's talk about sponsors sponsor of the day. Number one today is

00:01:55.480 | Patrick snow the publishing doctor

00:01:58.520 | We're gonna talk a lot about writing today and writing is definitely something that many of us desire to do

00:02:04.220 | Jeff is an expert on that. You should check out Jeff's work on writing

00:02:08.360 | He has lots of information lots of advice lots of tidbits for you

00:02:12.240 | If you would like to publish a book of your own and you would like some alternative views or probably better put

00:02:18.080 | Complimentary views to Jeff's work reach out to Patrick snow. He's the publishing doctor

00:02:22.820 | He is an expert at guiding people through the process of publishing their own book. He is actually my personal publishing coach

00:02:29.760 | I hired him to work with me as I work to put together the first of the radical personal finance books

00:02:36.320 | Definitely been a challenge, but I'm working my way through the process little by little and Patrick has been an immense help to me

00:02:41.680 | Essentially basically saving me tons of time and tons of research

00:02:44.640 | It's a lot easier to simply go to an expert and ask an expert instead of spending hours and hours and hours and hours trying

00:02:49.520 | To find the answers yourselves. It's it's well worth the time and money for me

00:02:54.480 | So to find out more about Patrick go to the publishing doctor comm

00:02:58.600 | the publishing doctor

00:03:00.920 | comm and

00:03:02.080 | You'll be able to find out some information about him and some of the clients that he's coached if you'd like to spend a little

00:03:06.920 | Bit more time with him before you do that go and pull up in your podcatcher

00:03:11.480 | I just navigate back to episode

00:03:13.480 | 252 of the show and that is a lengthy interview with Patrick snow himself

00:03:17.520 | So you can get to know him before you get in touch with him

00:03:19.360 | And if you are interested in potentially working with him, he is happy to offer you a complimentary 30 to 60 minute consultation

00:03:26.160 | Where he can get to know you a little bit and he can share with you some ideas and some information that might be helpful

00:03:30.920 | And he'll let you know whether or not he might be a good a good source for you

00:03:34.720 | The best way to get in touch with him is text him your name and your area code

00:03:40.840 | Area code timezone text him your name in time zone at two zero six three one zero one two zero zero two zero six three

00:03:48.800 | One zero one two zero zero that's a cell phone number and you'll be able to get through directly to him

00:03:52.760 | And I will make sure that information is in the show notes for today's episode

00:03:56.000 | That's a that's sponsored that in one Patrick's know the publishing doctor

00:03:59.720 | Sponsor the day number two is why nab you need a budget the budgeting software that I use and love

00:04:07.440 | As we talk about transitioning you'll hear in this interview

00:04:10.200 | I'll talk I'll ask Jeff a couple of questions about transitioning from a day job to a business

00:04:15.560 | But one of the most important things about that is how do you handle the finances?

00:04:19.280 | It's all well and good if you are, you know, 16 or 18 years old and you can you know

00:04:24.600 | live on a shoestring

00:04:25.120 | but what about those of us who are supporting our families and

00:04:28.560 | Making sure that we're taking care of our financial responsibilities while we also continue to pursue work that we love

00:04:35.000 | Well, we needed some good tools and one of the foundations of a good tool is a good budgeting tool and for years

00:04:40.920 | Even though I was a financial advisor

00:04:42.600 | I never found a good budgeting tool that would work for me with an irregular income my income fluctuates dramatically

00:04:48.280 | until I tried why nap and

00:04:51.000 | Why nap is awesome?

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00:05:37.840 | Let's get to the interview

00:05:40.360 | Jeff welcome to radical personal finance. Thanks, Joshua glad to be here

00:05:45.320 | So you've got quite the story and I love to profile stories like yours

00:05:51.720 | where people lay out a plan and just simply start pursuing the plan and

00:05:56.760 | Totally transform their life. So what's your story?

00:05:59.640 | Well, first of all, I like that, you know, I said, hey, it's good to be here

00:06:03.860 | Which is like a thing that people say on the podcast when they're not actually here

00:06:07.120 | But we're actually really isn't this a lot better than a Skype connection? Yeah, it's great

00:06:11.020 | and we've got you know this you've got the the track in the background of the

00:06:15.660 | ambience people talking

00:06:18.780 | So my story is I didn't necessarily start with a plan. I'm not sure that plans work

00:06:26.460 | I like what Jason freed from

00:06:29.000 | 37 signals now base camp, you know what he says about plans. He says plans or guesses

00:06:34.380 | They're good insofar as they kind of point you in a direction and you start moving and realize

00:06:39.220 | Okay, none of this is working out the way that I thought it would right?

00:06:42.500 | So I guess in a way my career was was that it was sort of a you know

00:06:47.020 | Something I scribbled on a napkin and then started moving and threw the napkin away

00:06:50.780 | in college I

00:06:53.340 | Grew up in Illinois outside of Chicago went to college in Illinois. I didn't know what I was gonna do. So I studied Spanish

00:07:00.620 | That's a very high high productive financially career, isn't it?

00:07:06.580 | Well, I mean to sort of it could be but to complement it with an even more practical

00:07:10.580 | Field I decided to double major in Spanish and religion

00:07:15.580 | just because I was interested in it and

00:07:19.740 | and so yeah, I just wanted to travel and do fun things and so I went to Spain for a semester and

00:07:25.780 | that really opened up my eyes to the world and

00:07:29.660 | Changed the way I looked at my own life and and also the things that I was doing and realized I want to do something

00:07:35.540 | That has a global impact right that isn't just you know, something in my my hometown or whatever

00:07:41.620 | So I graduated college and so I've got this Spanish degree

00:07:45.620 | I've got a degree in religion for you know what I'm not sure and I decide to build on this

00:07:51.300 | Opus that I'm going to

00:07:53.820 | Travel the country for a year with a band and play music

00:07:58.300 | Because you studied music at college, too, right?

00:08:01.620 | No, cuz none of these things are related at all and I've always wanted to be a musician

00:08:07.220 | I was a musician for you know, ever since I was 16 years old. I played guitar

00:08:12.180 | But I always wanted to you know, do the professional musician thing, which I think is you know

00:08:16.420 | Something that every musician wants to do I guess and so I did it for a year and that year

00:08:21.860 | I I was the band leader. I was the guitarist. I drove our van and

00:08:27.980 | Once a week, I would write an update on a website. I mean, this is probably a decade ago, right?

00:08:34.620 | And we didn't call it a blog

00:08:37.260 | But that was just about to become a thing and and I would write this update of here's what we did

00:08:42.260 | Here's where we went. Here's what North Dakota is like, you know or whatever and

00:08:45.900 | that was

00:08:48.300 | My most exciting part of my week probably I loved playing shows. It was fun

00:08:52.860 | It was all great

00:08:53.660 | But I would you know

00:08:54.700 | I would play for 1,200 people and I would come back to this host home this place where we were staying in somebody else's house

00:09:01.160 | sleeping on their couch to keep expenses down and

00:09:04.820 | I would you know stay up late at night writing the blog post that summarized our week and that was telling me something

00:09:12.220 | I didn't know what it was telling me at the time, but it but it was very telling and so I ended that year

00:09:16.740 | kind of finished that up and

00:09:19.780 | Moved to Nashville to chase a girl

00:09:23.420 | Got her after some after some significant struggle

00:09:27.700 | married her and

00:09:29.940 | Started I was a telemarketer then I worked for a nonprofit as a marketing director again

00:09:36.260 | You know, there's there's a very consistent pattern in my career

00:09:39.340 | And really, you know really got this job with no credentials no marketing credentials

00:09:44.180 | But they saw that I was a writer which meant that I spent a few semesters

00:09:48.620 | tutoring other students and writing because there's always something that came naturally to me and

00:09:52.860 | So this guy this the executive director of the nonprofit said hey, I see that you're a writer. I'm like I am

00:09:59.660 | Okay, and so I I got that job and did that for seven years

00:10:04.620 | first as a

00:10:06.460 | Marketing director then as a communications director and there I learned all about online marketing because we had no money as a nonprofit

00:10:13.540 | So I'm like, well, what's free?

00:10:15.020 | Well, the internet is kind of free and blogging which had become a thing is free

00:10:19.420 | And so I found all of these free new media tools where we could connect with an audience and get them to you know

00:10:26.140 | donate or participate in our programs and that's how I found out about online marketing and

00:10:31.260 | As you know as that was sort of winding down as I realized I'm not sure I want to keep doing this

00:10:37.020 | I was approaching my 30s and

00:10:39.020 | Then all this all these memories of writing and you know when I when I was at the band

00:10:44.660 | I started doing this thing that Parker Palmer calls listening to your life

00:10:48.240 | He says before you can tell your life what you want to do with it, which is the plan approach

00:10:52.620 | you need to listen to your life telling you who you are and

00:10:56.500 | So I I realized when I was listening to my life the thing that it was telling me was I'm a writer

00:11:01.900 | And so that's you know, so that's how all these things sort of collided it, you know

00:11:06.500 | By the time I was 30 I became a full-time writer and what's interesting is

00:11:10.880 | You've fully taken on that identity even with your branding. I mean you call yourself Jeff Goins writer

00:11:17.980 | Yeah, so I guess you listened and followed through. Did you feel like a

00:11:22.820 | Fake when you started doing that? Yeah, I did. In fact, I wasn't I didn't even want to call myself a writer

00:11:29.180 | I had a conversation with a friend of mine around this time that I was kind of exploring

00:11:33.340 | I think we these milestones in our lives where we start to get an itch

00:11:36.700 | We're trying to find a satisfying way of scratching that itch and maybe the itches

00:11:41.020 | I'm tired of being in debt right or the itches. I'm tired of working a job that I hate right for me

00:11:48.380 | It was neither of those things. It was I'm worried that in ten years

00:11:52.420 | I'm gonna have a midlife crisis because what I'm doing is good enough

00:11:55.460 | And I think the really dangerous place that we find ourselves in careers these days is

00:11:59.940 | Not that you hate your job and you have to get out of it if you hate your job

00:12:03.880 | That's actually really good news because you know right to do something, right?

00:12:08.700 | If you kind of sort of maybe like it it's like being in a in like a not great relationship, right?

00:12:14.060 | It's it's not a good place to be because you're gonna settle for the status quo

00:12:17.900 | And it will slowly kill you and I feared getting to the end of my life and going man

00:12:23.900 | I missed it or getting to 40. It was really my fear

00:12:26.820 | Not getting to 40, but you know getting to 40 and realizing I I settled, you know

00:12:33.340 | And I'm I was in my late 20s. I felt like there's still some risk in me. I can still do something new

00:12:37.540 | What do I really want to do? And I had a conversation with my friend Paul at the time and he said what's your dream?

00:12:44.040 | And I realized how much life had beat me up that I that I couldn't answer that question

00:12:49.680 | I said I don't have a dream and

00:12:51.680 | He said really because I would have thought your dream was to be a writer

00:12:54.600 | And I think it's interesting that that the people around us often notice things in us that we fail to see ourselves

00:13:01.400 | That's been my experience. And so I

00:13:05.560 | Said yeah, I guess you're right. My my dream is to be a writer someday

00:13:09.960 | And he looked at me and he said Jeff you don't have to want to be a writer

00:13:13.440 | you are a writer you just need to write and

00:13:17.080 | This this was sort of an epiphany for me because I was doing the writing on the side and I was thinking about it and dreaming

00:13:24.040 | About it and hoping for it

00:13:24.960 | But I had this idea that like there was like a writer title with a capital W

00:13:29.840 | And I didn't know what you had to do to earn that title, but I didn't feel like I was worthy of it

00:13:34.320 | Right, and I thought what if what if you just call yourself a writer and then start writing and for me

00:13:39.880 | I learned an important lesson that activity follows identity that before you can do something

00:13:44.920 | I think you have to become someone and if you don't believe that thing about yourself

00:13:49.120 | I don't think you're ever going to do your best work. I

00:13:52.160 | Remember reading an essay years ago by Mark Ford who at that time was writing under the pen name Michael Masterson

00:13:59.160 | And a publication called early to rise and he wrote about writing

00:14:02.980 | He was a writer for years and he talked about he had had that same dream as a young man

00:14:08.440 | And I believe if my details are right

00:14:10.560 | He was 17 years old and he was in school and his dad was coaching him and he was saying what do you want to do?

00:14:15.360 | I'm gonna be a writer his dad just simply said well, when's the last time you've written and he realized well

00:14:20.400 | Writers are simply people who write yeah, and you cease to become a writer when you stop to write

00:14:26.760 | Oh, you need to do is start writing. Yep, and it's interesting because we're here at FinCon

00:14:31.420 | 2015 and yesterday in Carl Richards talk he made the point about

00:14:36.880 | Artists that very few of us identify as artists, right?

00:14:40.240 | Once we're older he said he does this you go into a kindergarten classroom and ask the kids

00:14:46.000 | Well, how many of you artists and every one of them raises their hands?

00:14:49.000 | Well, they're all artists and many years later that's been beaten out of us and very few of us

00:14:54.080 | I think he said seven people in the room raised their hand as oh, I'm an artist

00:14:57.560 | yeah, and it's so fascinating because you have to believe that you are something and then do

00:15:03.840 | And then or I'm not sure if you just made a statement

00:15:07.000 | Maybe I disagree with you or you sometimes you do and then over time you start to believe

00:15:10.280 | Yeah, I don't know if it's one or the other but just doing seems to be the core the core function

00:15:16.640 | Yeah, it is interesting to me. And I think it's you can call yourself a writer and if you're not writing you're not a writer

00:15:23.800 | You're a liar

00:15:25.800 | And I also think you can do do do do and never believe

00:15:31.760 | Something about yourself see that and that sabotages the work to like we we probably

00:15:37.120 | Have met people at this conference who've done that, you know, I mean people all the time, you know

00:15:42.240 | They got a blog and there's like a million people that read that blog and they go

00:15:45.880 | Oh, that's just something that I do right? Like are you kidding me? Like that's amazing

00:15:49.680 | And you don't have I mean, I think it's sort of this false humility

00:15:52.760 | But I think it actually affects the work that we do

00:15:56.240 | Having a healthy confidence and this is who I am. This is what I do is powerful going back to the kidner

00:16:02.360 | Kindergarten, er, you know story. I have a three-year-old so go before that and he is like the most confident person

00:16:09.400 | I know right cuz he cuz cuz life hasn't taught him shame

00:16:12.920 | Yeah

00:16:13.400 | I remember when he was like one

00:16:15.960 | His name's Aiden and the music turned on one day and we never showed him how to dance

00:16:20.680 | Right because mostly because I do not know actually how to show anybody how to do that

00:16:25.640 | My wife could but you know one day the music comes on. We're just hanging around the house

00:16:30.040 | We're I think maybe we're even like watching a movie and the credits rolled and they start playing this

00:16:33.960 | You know kind of dancey music. He just starts dancing his hips start moving and I thought wow, isn't it interesting?

00:16:40.920 | That we don't we're born knowing how to dance, but we have to learn shame

00:16:47.520 | Yeah, and and if my son were here and you asked him, who are you? What's your name? What do you do?

00:16:52.480 | You know all these kind of questions that we ask people he would probably say I'm Superman

00:16:56.760 | If you know cuz he wears all these superhero and he's like totally serious about it, and I just want more of that

00:17:03.360 | I want to go. Hey, I am this thing and yeah

00:17:06.120 | I'm gonna go like push this down when Aiden just looks at me really hard and I go buddy. What are you doing?

00:17:12.520 | He was these are my lasers

00:17:13.880 | He's expecting me to fall down. Okay. Well, of course, I've got a

00:17:20.040 | But you know like I mean, he's not perfect if I throw, you know, green balls at him he falls down

00:17:24.960 | He knows that kryptonite kills Superman. So there's that

00:17:27.860 | So at this point, I know that you built over the last few years a pretty effective business

00:17:35.360 | Yeah, but I'd like to talk to you about that time of transition

00:17:38.400 | What was it like and I know the inside scoop that at this point you left your job to build your business

00:17:43.960 | What was the process to that in your mind and in your life? I?

00:17:49.640 | We use this term called

00:17:51.640 | You know make the leap like this is the thing that people say in these kind of conversations and I hate that

00:17:56.720 | terminology because I think it creates

00:17:59.600 | An idea that is false

00:18:02.240 | Creates this idea that if you work up enough momentum and you wait and wait and wait and sketch out your plan and you plan

00:18:07.900 | Perfectly that there's this moment where you know, and then you do it and everything's great and I don't believe in that moment

00:18:14.540 | I don't think it's it exists and it's not what I did

00:18:18.200 | You know for seven years, you know

00:18:20.320 | Most of my 20s I dreamt of being a writer doing something because I would have you know

00:18:25.360 | Like I thought in the in the back of my mind, maybe I could do this someday

00:18:28.440 | But I wasn't very serious about it, which is why the identity thing is so important to me

00:18:32.640 | I felt like I was half-heartedly

00:18:34.640 | Doing the doing part of it and it wasn't working

00:18:37.720 | And so when I had a conversation with Paul because you're a writer

00:18:41.680 | You just need to write and I I had done enough of the other thing where I was playing the amateur

00:18:46.720 | Where where I was faking it and not making it. I was like, well, maybe I need to become this

00:18:51.840 | Maybe I actually need to get serious. What would change if I woke up every day and thought like a writer

00:18:57.400 | What a professional writers actually do as your dad said they get up and write every day

00:19:01.820 | That's the only thing that I knew right and and I couldn't control the outcome, but I could control the process

00:19:06.800 | so I started a blog, you know my eighth and you know and a whole slew of failed blogs and

00:19:12.320 | And I started a blog and I started writing every day and there was this discipline to the process

00:19:17.660 | I wrote every single day for a year on that blog publishing words every every time and

00:19:22.720 | That year I grew an audience because because I had failed a lot of different ways

00:19:29.440 | I figured out ways to not do it. But also I think because there was this

00:19:33.280 | Confidence not like I knew what I was doing but just like hey

00:19:37.640 | I'm just gonna put this out here. And so the first year built an audience of about 10,000 email subscribers

00:19:44.120 | And I remember coming to a conference like this and somebody saying in passing

00:19:47.960 | Oh, you know, you've got like a six-figure business there and I was like no no, it's more like a three-figure business

00:19:53.860 | I think I made like a hundred bucks last year somehow

00:19:56.640 | I don't even know, you know

00:19:58.280 | But I had this community of people and I didn't know what to do with it

00:20:02.140 | and so I did the thing that people talk about doing, you know, I surveyed people and found out what they wanted and

00:20:07.400 | I was I wasn't really taking it seriously until my wife and I got pregnant and

00:20:11.480 | And we're getting ready to have our son Aidan and I was like, oh, yeah like got it

00:20:15.800 | Got you know working for this nonprofit. This is not gonna cut it

00:20:18.280 | My wife wanted to stay home, but definitely wasn't gonna cut it

00:20:21.180 | And so I had this I was forced to make money my son forced me into entrepreneurship

00:20:26.700 | I really would have be here if it weren't for him

00:20:28.700 | You know, he'll get to go, you know when he asked me for money later on

00:20:33.040 | I'm sure he'll remind me of that. I would imagine so we'll make sure

00:20:36.360 | Yeah, I know you said I you don't want to buy me a car but

00:20:39.840 | What's it look, you know, like let's give a little credit where credit's due

00:20:43.120 | Take my commissions now

00:20:45.640 | So the first year of that was really about building the audience not as if this was planned at all

00:20:51.000 | It wasn't but I was trying to be intentional with what I had what so what can I do?

00:20:54.680 | Well, I know I need to build an audience and then I know if I'm gonna sell something that audience

00:20:59.180 | I can just like think of what I want

00:21:01.480 | Them to buy or I could ask them so I asked them and everybody said well we wanted you know

00:21:06.920 | we would buy an e-book from you about how to become a writer and so I sold this e-book for like three dollars and

00:21:12.600 | Replaced and then tripled both my income and my wife's income in that second year

00:21:19.200 | and so what we had done was we didn't take a lead because it took two years of

00:21:23.320 | intentional not quite knowing what to do but taking the next step kind of effort and

00:21:28.920 | At the end of that year my wife was like when are you gonna quit your job?

00:21:31.640 | And I was like that wasn't even the plan

00:21:33.640 | Like I was just trying to make sure you could stay home and be a mom for a while because that's what you wanted to

00:21:37.920 | Do but all of a sudden this thing became so much bigger than we realized and so I went to my boss who was really

00:21:43.720 | A mentor of mine. It wasn't this like stuck in a cubicle kind of thing

00:21:47.040 | And I'm you know, really big on stressing if you don't hate your job if you feel like you're safe

00:21:52.700 | That might be a really bad place to be because that's where I was

00:21:56.000 | And so I went to my boss and I said, you know

00:21:59.280 | Here's what happened and I'm thinking it might be time to move on

00:22:01.760 | And I'm just really worried that I might disappoint you that you've invested in me and mentored me for seven years

00:22:07.280 | You hired me when nobody else would hire me when when TJ Maxx told me they wouldn't hire me because I didn't have the right

00:22:12.840 | Qualifications you hired me. So thank you and he called me a writer before I was calling myself one and he said Jeff

00:22:20.100 | I'm not disappointed. I'm really proud and in fact, I've been waiting for this

00:22:24.360 | Like I've been seeing this coming for a while. I think instead of saying take a leap

00:22:29.120 | We need to replace that terminology with build a bridge because that's what we did and it took two years Wow

00:22:35.760 | You've written since that time ebooks books what's been the theme of your writing over this career?

00:22:44.280 | Well online, I think I'm known sort of as a writer's writer and I write about the writing process and that's great. I love that

00:22:52.960 | with the books and I teach online courses and speak and

00:22:56.800 | And you know kind of do those three things online courses speaking and writing

00:23:01.880 | Books and blog posts and stuff. I think really what it comes down to is kind of this conversation that we're having here

00:23:07.720 | I like talking about

00:23:09.720 | Who you are and and what you're going to do in the world

00:23:13.440 | And so I'm 32 now and and I'm doing this this thing that I was doing at 27

00:23:18.720 | I'm still listening to my life and I'm going what are the themes that are emerging?

00:23:22.880 | What do I continue to learn?

00:23:24.640 | so if when I was 12, I was drawing pictures of Garfield and when I was 16, I was writing emo love songs and

00:23:31.440 | you know when I was

00:23:33.440 | 22 I was sleeping on a friend's couch, you know as a telemarketer

00:23:37.880 | Obviously, there's good jobs and there's bad jobs and there's oh crap

00:23:40.960 | I didn't I shouldn't have done that with my life, you know moments

00:23:43.300 | But what are the things that I've had in common in different seasons of my life that have continued to emerge?

00:23:48.720 | I think it comes down to I like connecting with people

00:23:52.300 | I like creating and I like not just creating for the sake of creating but creating stuff

00:23:56.440 | That's going to motivate people to change their lives in some way. And so when I'm writing about writing

00:24:02.720 | I'm really writing about no you're a writer and what can you do today?

00:24:05.680 | You can get up and live into that identity and when you know

00:24:10.180 | I was writing my last book the art of work, which was sort of the grander question

00:24:14.320 | How do you find a calling or a purpose in your life?

00:24:17.140 | Same kind of thing like how do I creatively inspire people to figure out who they are and therefore discover what they want to do

00:24:24.620 | In writing about writing, which I know has

00:24:28.000 | The art of work went a little bit beyond just writing but or went a lot beyond writing

00:24:33.340 | But in writing about writing have you ever wondered or felt like you're in some ways

00:24:37.820 | Almost running a Ponzi scheme

00:24:39.820 | Yeah, yeah, of course I get I get those emails

00:24:43.620 | Yeah, writing about writing podcasting about podcasting blogging about blogging, you know, we all kind of sneer at these things

00:24:50.620 | I

00:24:52.580 | What I get I get really worried about is when somebody reads my blog and then they go like replicate that because they think that's

00:24:58.660 | The path like oh like he wrote about writing and now he's writing other books and doing other things and that that's what you have

00:25:03.660 | to do

00:25:05.660 | That's that's probably not the right idea

00:25:07.660 | It's the right idea for me because right before I started my blog again

00:25:12.580 | This was like the eighth attempt at trying to not suck at this thing

00:25:15.980 | I when I did start my blog when I started going to write a commas just because I couldn't I couldn't buy Jeff goings

00:25:21.700 | Calm so it's like well like I'm gonna write like I'm gonna write stuff. So like goings writer. That sounds kind of cool and

00:25:27.740 | So first I started writing about leadership and I tried to be like Michael Hyatt and then second

00:25:33.860 | I wrote about marketing and I tried to be like Seth Godin and these things didn't work

00:25:37.460 | They just didn't work

00:25:38.420 | and so I would go to

00:25:40.540 | work as a

00:25:42.340 | Communications director and what I did all day long was coach writers and and I would work with our marketing team to create collateral

00:25:49.340 | That we would send out to people and I really liked that. I really liked helping people

00:25:55.140 | learn how to write better and

00:25:58.500 | Share their messages and connect them with an audience and and so I thought well like maybe I'll just share a little bit about this

00:26:04.740 | On my blog and when I did that it immediately

00:26:07.340 | Connected with people when I'd write like the Seth Godin s, you know vague sort of, you know intuitive

00:26:13.580 | Like what is he saying? And I feel like I just got incepted kind of thing

00:26:16.660 | You know, I would try to write that be very mysterious and nobody would read it and then I would I would write this thing about

00:26:21.940 | Writing. Hey, here's four steps to finding your writing voice or something that felt very rudimentary to me like obvious

00:26:27.900 | And people loved it like, you know

00:26:30.060 | I mean like four people and then that four became seven and twelve and so on but seriously like

00:26:34.340 | Nobody read this and then you know, two people goes hey, I like this and I go hey, maybe there's something to that

00:26:39.300 | I think there's two things that helped me process this one. I love what Derek Sivers says about this

00:26:44.420 | He says what's obvious to you is amazing to others

00:26:47.780 | All right

00:26:48.300 | This idea that you can just go find your passion and do whatever you want in the world and live on a beach and everything

00:26:52.620 | Will be great. I

00:26:54.540 | Don't think is a good idea and I don't think it's it's reality right? But but you know more importantly on the good ideas side

00:27:00.980 | I don't think it's actually the path to fulfilling work

00:27:03.420 | I think the path to fulfilling work is yeah finding what you're passionate about

00:27:08.060 | What do you love doing then? How does that intersect with a skill that you have probably something that's obvious to you?

00:27:14.140 | That's amazing to other people that you take for granted. Oh, that's just something that I do

00:27:19.020 | And then the third intersection is what do people want? Like what do they actually need?

00:27:24.420 | How can you help people and I think when you satisfy those three areas skill passion and demand you I mean

00:27:31.100 | That's a pretty good definition of a calling right? And so when I started writing about writing that was one of those

00:27:37.620 | Intersections since I found other intersections, but I really really like it

00:27:43.180 | I like coaching and encouraging other writers and creatives and you know

00:27:47.160 | The business reaches sort of expanding

00:27:49.220 | But yeah, I I get the Ponzi scheme thing

00:27:53.740 | But but no, I find it really fulfilling because I think everybody has a voice

00:27:58.700 | Everybody has a message worth sharing and in many ways I get more fulfillment

00:28:03.380 | From propping up those people and helping them get the attention there

00:28:07.420 | They're writing deserves then just you know me getting another email subscriber on my list. I

00:28:12.740 | Asked the question just because I think it is a common. Yeah, you know something that some people look at totally in every area

00:28:18.840 | There's a need for

00:28:20.560 | There's a white there may be a white space opportunity

00:28:23.600 | And so when who has an eevee strunk right wrote the elements of style and sits down and writes this

00:28:28.880 | It probably did seem very obvious to him and he made I hope a little bit of money selling this book

00:28:34.720 | That's become a classic but it filled a need but the next person that comes along the need was already met

00:28:39.680 | Yeah, and so there's one Michael Hyatt. There's one Seth Godin, but there's one Jeff Goins and he was a great writer

00:28:47.120 | He was a literary guy. And so I look at people who do this, right? I mean Stephen King did on writing right Steven Pressfield

00:28:54.440 | You know wrote the the War of Art

00:28:57.640 | You know sort more like writers who you know, not dead guys writers who are alive today

00:29:02.920 | and Lamont bird by bird and I think the challenge there is

00:29:07.680 | To not get stuck in that to continue to do creative work while you're telling people how to do creative work

00:29:14.640 | And I will say it's a challenge because there's that line of writers who want to get better

00:29:19.800 | You know that are knocking at my door never gets smaller. It always gets longer

00:29:24.240 | There's always more people want to share their message and I love that

00:29:26.680 | But I realized I can only give what I have to give what I'm getting and so if I'm giving giving giving and I'm not

00:29:33.680 | Actually doing what I feel is important interesting creative work then that well is gonna run dry. And so

00:29:40.680 | I don't feel like a fake necessarily

00:29:44.440 | but I but I see like the tendency to like be talking about the thing that I'm no longer doing and

00:29:50.640 | that is

00:29:53.160 | Scary in a good way. I think that fear forces me to continue to create art hopefully and

00:29:58.600 | Stay creative and continue to kind of hone my craft. Have there been any changes in your character as an entrepreneur?

00:30:06.240 | versus previously as an employee

00:30:09.280 | Character

00:30:13.720 | You know, I don't know I don't know if this you know sort of satisfies that field of character, but I think that's um, I

00:30:21.760 | Think that when I was an employee I did have this

00:30:24.300 | I was never entrepreneurial like I wasn't I never I was never entrepreneurial in the sense that like I cared about making money

00:30:30.680 | In fact, I kind of cared about the opposite of it

00:30:34.000 | So I'm touring this, you know with this band for a year and I made like eight thousand dollars that year

00:30:38.200 | And I was like, this is great, you know, like I get I have a place to sleep

00:30:42.440 | I have food to eat and and I get to you know

00:30:45.520 | Live my dream at the time which was play music and I moved in Nashville and I got a raise

00:30:50.480 | I made twelve thousand dollars that first year sleeping on a couch eating peanut butter and jelly

00:30:55.040 | walking to Walmart once a week to get my bare necessities walking to

00:30:59.920 | Circuit City to check my email because I didn't have a computer or a cell phone or anything

00:31:03.820 | And I was okay with that

00:31:06.800 | but what I realized what I've since realized is an entrepreneur is

00:31:12.360 | somebody who creates opportunities not only for themselves but for other people and since starting a business and I just sort of fell into

00:31:19.720 | This in the sense that I liked the freedom of working for myself

00:31:24.040 | But you know the bottom line stuff the financial side of it

00:31:27.840 | I was oblivious to it because I always had a job. I was always very frugal

00:31:32.760 | So I never I was never in debt never did any of that stuff the one time my wife and I bought a car cuz mine

00:31:38.100 | Mine, you know broke down and we had we were paying for it. We're paying it off

00:31:42.640 | I was like we got a we got to pay that down very quickly and get rid of that

00:31:46.840 | Because I was just really afraid of owing people things. I didn't need to have an abundance

00:31:50.840 | I was just was that from your parents influence or just you or what what contributed to that? That's a good question

00:31:55.720 | When I was a kid at dinnertime

00:31:58.640 | The phone would ring and my parents would say don't answer that because those are bill collectors and that like, you know

00:32:04.080 | Ten years old I knew what a bill collector was and so I just knew that it was like, you know

00:32:08.520 | So we had lots, you know, so there was debt and you know, my parents did the best that they could but they struggled and

00:32:14.720 | I saw that struggle and it didn't make me want to go make a million dollars

00:32:18.340 | It just made me go

00:32:19.680 | I'm gonna count every penny and I was the I was the eldest sibling and I think there's some of that in the birth order

00:32:24.960 | But I was just like I'm not going to like I'm always gonna make sure I've got some security

00:32:31.000 | So even when I was making $12,000 a year, I had security, you know, I was saving money every month

00:32:37.320 | And and so when I became an entrepreneur, I realized looking back now I go

00:32:43.040 | Oh when I was an employee, I was very entitled. I wasn't planning for the worst-case scenario. I was hoping for the best

00:32:49.800 | I was being frugal as best I could but I wasn't creating opportunities for other people. It was all about me

00:32:55.480 | One of the most exciting things about running a business right now

00:32:58.240 | I think is not being a solopreneur which which I don't fit that category anymore. It's building a business

00:33:05.380 | That's big enough that it can employ me and other people probably not hundreds or thousands of people

00:33:10.760 | But a few people whose lives I get to impact because for years now

00:33:15.200 | I've been impacting the lives of our customers my readers that that sort of thing now

00:33:19.180 | I thought now what I'm really excited about is impacting the lives of people on my team

00:33:24.480 | And that was something I never thought about, you know in my 20s

00:33:27.580 | I just thought I just need a paycheck to take care of myself

00:33:29.580 | I think being an entrepreneur can not always but

00:33:34.160 | Certainly can make you less selfish and more generous and that's what it's done for me

00:33:40.580 | What caught you started as a solopreneur just writing working on your blog kind of doing your thing

00:33:46.820 | What encouraged you or caused you to make this switch from solopreneur to business owner?

00:33:53.960 | Just laziness, I guess like I did

00:33:57.460 | It's ironic because I'm like, I don't want I don't want to do these things

00:34:01.140 | I'm gonna hire people to do these things and

00:34:03.140 | In effect, I'm going to create more work for myself because I'm gonna have to hire these people and show them how to do this

00:34:08.400 | Or manage them or you know, like now I've got to manage people and do these things and in the short term

00:34:13.540 | It's more work, right?

00:34:15.020 | Because you've now got these people that you have to show how to do things that are not gonna do it perfectly

00:34:18.300 | And you still have to make sure these things get done and instead of just doing it yourself like hair do this thing and I'll

00:34:24.580 | Show you how to do it and it takes more time and it's more exhausting

00:34:28.820 | I tried it once about a year ago and it didn't work very well. And so I was like, ah, like I'm not gonna do that

00:34:34.300 | I'm just gonna you know, do the solopreneur outsource to VA kind of things

00:34:38.220 | and then I

00:34:40.060 | Tried it again this year and I really kind of organized things and said, okay like what does management look like?

00:34:46.300 | what does this look like and we started building systems and

00:34:48.620 | And now it's working a lot better mostly because I

00:34:53.820 | invested in people

00:34:56.180 | earlier on but what motivated it was I

00:34:59.500 | Initially thought well, I don't want to do this. I'm gonna get people to do it now. I

00:35:06.180 | As objectively as I can I look at what I'm doing and what our organization is trying to do and I go is does it really?

00:35:12.820 | serve our

00:35:15.100 | organizational goals

00:35:16.860 | For me to check my email two hours a day

00:35:19.820 | Which I could do if I you know when I get 500 emails in a day

00:35:22.300 | Is that really the best use of my gifts if I were my own boss, which sadly I am

00:35:27.600 | I love what Seth Godin says about this. He says the world's worst boss is you right?

00:35:32.700 | You know and I was like, oh man, I've got a terrible boss

00:35:36.340 | He's such a jerk

00:35:38.340 | You know like when when I

00:35:41.080 | Realize that it's it challenged me and

00:35:47.140 | And it changed, you know my perspective and so now it's I'm thinking well

00:35:55.060 | What what my best use of time if I were my own boss is to hey Jeff write something create something

00:36:01.980 | Spend some time, you know thinking of how we can grow the business

00:36:05.300 | Like I sort of serve this creative role in in the organization not not managing people

00:36:11.740 | I've never been good at that not like watching the bottom line

00:36:15.100 | That's important and I and I have to be aware of kind of the like the big numbers

00:36:19.080 | But like looking at spreadsheets, you know for hours every month is not a good use of my time because I'm not good at that

00:36:25.300 | And so it was it went from being probably this sort of selfish lazy

00:36:29.560 | I don't want to do that to going, you know, like if I were working for me, I you know manager

00:36:35.340 | Jeff would say to employee Jeff you shouldn't be doing that and

00:36:38.820 | And I realized okay, I'm gonna get people around me who can do that because I could probably figure it out and do it

00:36:45.040 | Okay, but I just I'm very uncomfortable

00:36:47.040 | Doing things that aren't the the best thing that I should be doing right now

00:36:51.180 | This is one of the aspects of your work that I've admired because I've been aware of

00:36:55.980 | Your work for a while and I've seen you make this transition from well

00:37:00.380 | I put stuff out on a blog and I just kind of do this solopreneur thing and then over the last couple years

00:37:06.020 | I've watched your business just

00:37:08.020 | From the outside. I haven't reviewed your tax returns, but from the outside it seems to have transformed from

00:37:14.860 | just me kind of putting some things out on the internet into a business and

00:37:20.060 | the

00:37:23.220 | In many ways I see you everywhere now versus before it was just like oh this this small community of people

00:37:28.900 | And that's the I guess the stage right where I'm at when I started radical personal finance

00:37:33.860 | Almost a year and a half ago at that time. I was just burned out

00:37:37.940 | I just wanted to do my dinky little podcast

00:37:39.860 | Yeah, you know sit down in front of a microphone in my bedroom and just like put it out there and just do that

00:37:44.100 | Yeah, I didn't want to do anything else

00:37:45.620 | But it took about six months for me to decompress and just kind of relax and then I'm now I've realized

00:37:51.580 | that I

00:37:53.580 | Have to I have a responsibility to make a change and instead of just doing my dinky little solo printer podcast

00:38:00.820 | I need to build a business

00:38:02.820 | Behind it. And so that's a major

00:38:05.340 | focus what were the

00:38:08.300 | Biggest influence what have been the biggest influences for you over the past a couple years in making this transition

00:38:17.020 | What's been the biggest source of encouragement for you?

00:38:21.020 | Well, we mentioned Michael Hyatt

00:38:22.780 | He's a friend of mine and really a mentor first from afar and now closer up and he said this thing

00:38:29.940 | To me recently. He said because I cuz he's way into the team-building thing, you know was CEO of a publishing company

00:38:36.940 | We had 500 people under him at one point so he gets it

00:38:40.900 | You know

00:38:41.180 | He knows how to build big businesses and I kind of assumed that when he got out of that

00:38:45.900 | He would do the solar pure thing and I asked him about that and he said yeah

00:38:49.260 | I did it for like a month and then like I realized I didn't want to do these things and it wasn't a good use

00:38:53.940 | of my time

00:38:55.140 | Not in some sort of arrogant way, but and I only have so many hours in a day

00:38:59.060 | How do I want to spend them? And if I'm gonna you know help people with that time?

00:39:03.380 | What is the the the best, you know bang for my buck and he said this he said if

00:39:08.060 | Your dream is so small that you don't need a team to accomplish it

00:39:13.380 | Then you need to dream bigger you need to have a vision that exceeds your resources and then go find

00:39:20.820 | Those resources. I remember reading a story about Henry Ford

00:39:25.060 | where

00:39:26.660 | They were sort of they were talking about the actual timeline for how

00:39:30.140 | You know

00:39:31.420 | He created an efficient automobile and and everybody kind of credits Henry Ford for creating the assembly line

00:39:38.300 | or you know sort of maximizing that anyway and

00:39:42.500 | What they don't realize at least based on on this Harvard Business Review story is that what came first was the vision Henry Ford saw?

00:39:50.260 | lots of

00:39:51.180 | Expensive automobiles that you know, the upper class could afford but nobody else could afford and he said this is not right

00:39:57.400 | We need to create

00:39:59.660 | Automobiles at this price point so that anybody in the middle class can afford them and people thought he was crazy

00:40:06.020 | They thought you're never gonna be able to get those resources, you know steel is expensive. This is expensive, etc

00:40:11.420 | So, you know, you're you're just this is what it's kind of cost and he said no

00:40:14.900 | This is our price point and we're going to have to build a system that allows us to grab those resources

00:40:20.700 | In a in an efficient cost-effective way to get that outcome and I think a lot of times we go. What are my resources?

00:40:28.220 | I'll find whatever resources and I'll try to do something with that and

00:40:31.020 | Innovation is always a process of looking ahead saying what's my vision?

00:40:36.060 | What do I want to see and then figuring out a path to get there?

00:40:40.180 | That's I think that's the only way innovation happens something new innovation means creating something new

00:40:44.140 | So, you know those things inspire me way more than just hey quit your job and work

00:40:50.500 | You know a few hours a week and live on a beach or whatever

00:40:53.140 | I think that work for me is something that's really fulfilling not in a weird workaholic way

00:40:59.500 | but like every day I get up and I go to work and I kiss my kid and I think about my wife and

00:41:04.260 | And my son Aiden says, you know, daddy don't go and we've gotten really good about talking about this for a while

00:41:10.140 | I sort of felt guilty and I was like because I can control my own schedule

00:41:12.900 | Maybe I should spend more time at home and you know, I'm home a lot

00:41:16.540 | But and I mean randomly take days off when we go to the zoo

00:41:20.700 | But we started talking about this as a family and my wife Ashley does a really good job of this. She goes nobody

00:41:26.060 | Daddy has to go to work because you know, we have a house so we have things to pay for

00:41:30.940 | but you know because you know, there's also you know people out there that

00:41:35.860 | you know your dad is influencing and impacting and and that's what he does and and we talk about it a lot not as like

00:41:43.420 | Work is a bad thing to be avoided and leisure is a good thing that we need to maximize more time with

00:41:49.040 | And so finding work that is inspiring not always easy and not always fun

00:41:54.060 | I mean, it's hard work, but but doing that and seeing other people who think like that

00:41:58.540 | so, you know Mike Hyde is an example of that where their work is a means to

00:42:03.580 | Achieve their purpose to make an impact on the world

00:42:05.900 | I find that really inspiring and try to integrate that into the work that I do

00:42:09.300 | Physically where and how do you work? I have an office in downtown Franklin

00:42:18.160 | We live in Franklin, Tennessee outside of Nashville

00:42:19.980 | And so I get in the car and I drive like a mile to work and it's a little

00:42:24.220 | Office without a window

00:42:27.660 | Above this cafe off of Main Street and the rent is really affordable for a long time

00:42:32.420 | I just worked in my house

00:42:34.420 | but there's something really good for me about

00:42:37.260 | Going from one place to another, you know

00:42:41.200 | I like

00:42:43.420 | Separation from work and the rest of life not because I the two don't really integrate because I think they do

00:42:48.180 | But because if I don't have that separation that one mile quick five minute drive

00:42:52.180 | To sort of reset my brain from you know playing

00:42:56.140 | Star Wars fighting, you know light everything's a lightsaber with my son in the morning - I gotta send him

00:43:01.620 | You know send an email or something

00:43:03.620 | Resetting my brain into a different mode that drive helps accomplish that and then coming back even more important importantly at the end of the day

00:43:11.960 | I go

00:43:13.980 | Look like I need to stop thinking about work and be present to my family and it forces me to be present to both things

00:43:19.340 | That I'm doing

00:43:20.500 | So I like the physicality of having to leave home and it could be like walking across my yard or going to a certain part

00:43:26.940 | In my house, which it was for a while, but now

00:43:29.900 | You know

00:43:30.460 | I just I drive to this office and I've got a

00:43:32.460 | Desk and I just bring my laptop there and lots of lots of books and papers and things and that's where I do my work

00:43:38.620 | Are you creative on a schedule or do you write when creativity strikes randomly? I?

00:43:43.980 | both

00:43:46.220 | You know, there's that that old quote that I only write when I'm inspired. I just happen to be inspired every morning at 9 a.m

00:43:51.420 | And and there's that there's days where I don't want to create and I go well, it's your job, man

00:43:57.020 | So get up and do it anyway, and I force myself to sit down and miraculously something comes

00:44:01.180 | the challenge is because there's lots of interesting science about this that

00:44:05.740 | We get our best ideas when we're not ready to capture them, right?

00:44:11.180 | And I read some studies about this why when your brain is doing another activity

00:44:17.120 | It can be more creative and when you're under stress and anxiety, you don't do your best creative work now

00:44:22.180 | We've all had deadlines and stress and you know

00:44:23.820 | We kind of pull a rabbit out of her hat but typically you do your best work when you don't have to do it

00:44:27.740 | Which is kind of interesting

00:44:28.940 | Or at least you get your best

00:44:30.460 | Creative ideas in those settings and that's why you get ideas in the shower all the time or when you're driving a song lyric will come

00:44:36.560 | Or whatever. So what I do is I used to go. Oh that idea will come back later. It never comes back

00:44:42.440 | I forget I go. This line was brilliant. I

00:44:44.700 | I'm okay with letting things go. I used to really obsess about that

00:44:49.740 | I feel like this was my magnum opus and I've lost it forever

00:44:53.300 | So I I am creative on a schedule

00:44:55.940 | But then once that time is over ideas come through come to me throughout the day. So I just capture them

00:45:01.780 | I just usually pull up my phone or a notepad and I write them down like one or two words in Evernote

00:45:07.700 | I like using Evernote because I put on my phone and then the next morning I wake up I pull up Evernote and I go

00:45:12.380 | oh, yeah, I'm gonna write about that and

00:45:14.380 | And I use what's called what I call a three bucket system. I've got ideas

00:45:20.900 | Drafts and then published pieces so I you know, the first bucket is throughout the day

00:45:26.300 | I capture stuff on Evernote and put it into an idea bucket and then the next morning I get up during my scheduled time

00:45:32.700 | To write I take one of those ideas and I draft them into something

00:45:35.700 | That's very rough

00:45:36.420 | Then I put and then I put it into a folder and I leave it there

00:45:38.820 | And then I pull something out of that folder something older and I edit it and get it ready to publish

00:45:44.420 | And so when I'm constantly filling those buckets, I feel like I'm you know doing my work

00:45:50.060 | What do you write in software or what do you write it when I'm blogging I write in by word

00:45:56.420 | which is don't you know a little minimalist blogging software tool and

00:46:01.180 | And then when I'm writing for for a book, I usually write in Scrivener

00:46:06.520 | I wish I had better systems for this because I'm messy

00:46:09.420 | There's post-it notes and all kinds of things and I'm a very like when whatever I publish

00:46:14.700 | I want it to be very neat right, but my process is is pretty messy

00:46:18.740 | But those are two tools that I use consistently awesome final question if you were

00:46:23.620 | Speaking to somebody who's in a similar situation. You've given a lot of advice

00:46:28.720 | Already within this context, but you're going back and you're speaking to someone who's in a similar situation as you

00:46:35.380 | Life's going okay, but I would like to explore something else

00:46:39.940 | What's your coaching advice for them of how to pursue that in an intelligent way?

00:46:45.860 | So, you know going back to that little matrix that we talked about passion skill demand

00:46:50.900 | I think it's helpful to ask those three questions. What do I love? What am I good at?

00:46:55.400 | What do people want and and assume that you don't know the answers to any of those questions, right?

00:47:00.100 | Because I think we we like I thought man if I could just play music for a year

00:47:03.980 | This would be amazing and I didn't hate it. And I think there's this whole idea that once something becomes your job

00:47:08.980 | It's not fun anymore

00:47:11.260 | It's still fun, but it does change right it becomes work

00:47:14.540 | And I'm not one of those people that think you know

00:47:16.700 | You can't take your passion and turn it into work

00:47:19.140 | But it changes and I think there are very few things that there are very few passions that once they become jobs

00:47:24.100 | There's the same level of fulfillment

00:47:26.460 | Surprisingly writing has been that thing for me. It's just that fun and and that fulfilling

00:47:32.320 | so

00:47:35.540 | So for me what that

00:47:38.940 | what I would say is

00:47:41.220 | find something that you are good at that you enjoy doing and do it for six months and

00:47:48.340 | See if there's resonance see if there's connection

00:47:52.100 | So, you know with a blog and I had to do this seven different times before I could find something that stuck

00:47:57.140 | Try an idea be fully committed to it

00:48:00.440 | Write every day or create every day or do that craft every day and put it out there in some way blogging is great

00:48:06.940 | Podcasting is great because you put it on the internet people like magically find it

00:48:10.320 | You have to like go knock on a bunch of doors, right?

00:48:12.660 | It's good to knock on doors, too

00:48:13.940 | But it's you know random people go Harry I found this thing you're like really like I thought nobody was listening

00:48:18.700 | But nobody was paying attention and I think practices is good

00:48:22.620 | Practicing in public is even better because you're going to quickly see what resonates when I'm delivering a talk as a speaker

00:48:30.260 | which is something that I never thought I would do and I

00:48:33.700 | Volunteered to speak for free at this local event because I wanted to see could I do speaking should I do speaking and when I spoke?

00:48:40.820 | Very poorly in front of this audience of people but did the best that I could at the time

00:48:44.700 | And people came up to me afterwards and said good job

00:48:47.740 | I wanted to shake my hand and you know gave me a standing ovation, which was weird

00:48:52.260 | It like I realized there's resonance here

00:48:55.780 | This is something that I can pursue as opposed to spending a year

00:48:59.020 | Preparing to do that thing and then going oh this wasn't what I was supposed to be doing

00:49:02.620 | So I think finding something and putting it out there and seeing how it connects with people is the best way to figure out

00:49:07.780 | Am I on the right track and if not do something else, but really commit to it

00:49:12.220 | awesome advice

00:49:14.900 | Websites books courses share with the audience where they can find you and where they can connect with your work and the different

00:49:20.900 | Products and pieces that you have available for them. Yeah. Thanks. So the best place to go is my blog goins writer calm

00:49:27.660 | That's like coins because we're at FinCon but with a G or as they reminded me in middle school

00:49:34.800 | And I you know, I hope this is a pg-13 podcast

00:49:37.820 | Groins without the R, but you know, sorry for that word picture, but you'll you know, you won't be able to forget that

00:49:44.340 | If you go to goinswriter.com

00:49:48.140 | You can sign up for my email newsletter, which we send out once a week get a bunch of tips on writing creativity

00:49:54.540 | Business and you'll get the first two chapters of my new book the art of work for free. Awesome Jeff. Thanks for coming on

00:50:00.620 | Thanks, Joshua

00:50:02.620 | Here's my question as we go today

00:50:05.740 | Are you working on the process?

00:50:08.500 | If you hear stories like Jeff's and stories like mine stories like so many people that I bring on the show

00:50:14.260 | I hope you hear that. It's not a direct linear process

00:50:17.620 | It's a little bit here a little start little stop little step work a little bit on this work a little bit on that

00:50:23.700 | It's not a linear direct process

00:50:25.700 | But the process of doing the work can be really really fulfilling. So get out there and do the work

00:50:32.500 | You can find all the information about Jeff on his website

00:50:35.660 | Just link in the show notes go and read some of the stuff. He's an excellent writer. You'll enjoy his books

00:50:41.420 | You'll enjoy who he is. What I most appreciate about Jeff is he's a very down-to-earth and accessible person

00:50:46.460 | He doesn't pull the facade that so many people do. I'm mr. Bigshot. Mr. Success

00:50:51.100 | He's a very relatable person and and I find that personally very attractive and very useful and he's an excellent coach

00:50:57.220 | So check out his information link in the show notes to his websites. Thank you for listening today. I appreciate so much

00:51:02.780 | Thank you to each and every one of you who support the show directly on patreon

00:51:06.420 | Although I talk about sponsors in the beginning of the show the primary basis of the financial income for me is

00:51:12.660 | Through the patreon program and that's where individuals just like you sign up to support the show

00:51:17.900 | For a couple bucks a month or different levels and send me money directly

00:51:22.220 | And that's how I'm able to continue to bring you the depth and the breadth of shows

00:51:26.100 | That I bring you through here through the end of the year is November 5 today and through the end of the year

00:51:32.140 | I would love to publish for you a course

00:51:35.140 | For the patrons of the show and I know very clearly what I want that course to be at this point in time

00:51:40.140 | I want that course to be a discussion to the basic

00:51:45.100 | Foundational framework and I want to offer it a really low price and the way I can do that is with the support of

00:51:50.260 | The patreon patrons I intend to offer some very high price courses in the future some very high price services

00:51:55.820 | But I also want to offer low price services to help people who are just getting started and who are really struggling

00:52:00.260 | And so the way that I can do that is through the patreon program

00:52:03.840 | So I've set on the milestone goals if we can get the income for the show to four thousand dollars a month from you the patrons

00:52:08.740 | I will create that course and that course I will provide it free to all of the patrons of the show and that'll allow people

00:52:14.220 | in the future to be able to sign up for

00:52:16.220 | Sign up for a patreon program for a buck or five bucks and have access to that course

00:52:20.380 | So, please let's try to get to four thousand bucks by the end of the year so I can launch that in January

00:52:24.380 | Go to radical personal finance comm slash patron radical personal finance comm slash patron

00:52:30.620 | Hey parents join the LA Kings on Saturday, November 25th for an unforgettable kids day presented by Pear Deck family fun

00:52:40.420 | Giveaways and exciting Kings hockey awaits get your tickets now at LA Kings comm slash promotions and create lasting memories with your little ones

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