Josh Kroenke on Building Successful Teams, Realizing How Special Jokic Is, and Drafting MPJ

00:00:00.000 | (upbeat music)

00:00:02.580 | - Welcome to another episode of Curious Mike.

00:00:10.540 | I'm here with Josh Kroenke, fellow Columbia, Missourian.

00:00:14.700 | I appreciate you on the podcast, man.

00:00:16.540 | - Absolutely, man.

00:00:17.380 | - I know you don't do a lot of media, so I appreciate it.

00:00:18.960 | - No, man, it's my pleasure to be here,

00:00:20.580 | especially like, as you said,

00:00:21.660 | with a fellow Columbia, Missourian.

00:00:23.060 | - Yes, sir.

00:00:23.900 | - We're a rare breed up here.

00:00:25.060 | - We are a rare breed, yeah.

00:00:26.660 | I wanna start off a little bit with your childhood

00:00:29.600 | because I find it interesting, you know,

00:00:32.720 | growing up, your father was obviously already very wealthy.

00:00:35.300 | I don't know if it was to the point that it is now,

00:00:37.760 | but like you just being around you

00:00:40.320 | and how down to earth you are,

00:00:41.900 | I find that intriguing just in the way you came up.

00:00:44.040 | So talk a little bit about, you know, growing up,

00:00:48.080 | regular things like high school and things like that.

00:00:50.300 | Talk about your childhood.

00:00:52.320 | - Well, yeah, I mean, and you know, you know,

00:00:54.000 | as we affectionately say back home, Como, very well.

00:00:57.600 | And I was born and raised in Central Missouri,

00:01:00.300 | Columbia to be exact.

00:01:01.720 | And yeah, I mean, I do come from a background

00:01:05.000 | where I've been financially secure,

00:01:06.560 | very secure my entire life.

00:01:08.180 | But, you know, my parents,

00:01:11.120 | I think they did an unbelievable job

00:01:13.580 | of raising both my older sister and I to understand that,

00:01:17.800 | you know, to feel blessed in the position that we're in,

00:01:20.600 | but don't let it define you in any way.

00:01:23.160 | We're all humans and we're all kind of going through

00:01:25.480 | this experience in our own kind of different versions

00:01:28.800 | of how we're experiencing life.

00:01:30.180 | And, but being from Columbia, I think is a,

00:01:33.720 | it's a college town.

00:01:35.720 | There's a lot of really good people in there.

00:01:37.600 | And, you know, the sport of basketball really is the thing

00:01:41.900 | that really kind of kept me grounded, you know,

00:01:45.040 | going through junior high and high school

00:01:47.440 | and then playing at Mizzou, you know,

00:01:50.340 | you experience people from all walks of life.

00:01:52.640 | And so some of my best friends from a very early age,

00:01:55.440 | I understood didn't come from as fortunate

00:01:57.240 | of a background as myself, from a two-parent home,

00:02:00.280 | from a financially secure home.

00:02:02.020 | And so I understand, or I understood at an early age

00:02:05.200 | how fortunate I was.

00:02:06.600 | And my parents didn't ever let me forget that.

00:02:08.800 | - Yeah.

00:02:09.920 | Yeah, I find, I think about it all the time,

00:02:11.680 | like even raising kids of my own one day,

00:02:14.440 | like people always talk about once you make money,

00:02:18.080 | you want to make money for your kids, kids,

00:02:19.760 | and all these things.

00:02:20.580 | But when you really think about it,

00:02:22.440 | I think about like, would I be here today

00:02:24.000 | if I had parents who were very stable?

00:02:26.920 | One of the things that pushed me to even be successful

00:02:29.240 | is the fact that I had, you know, my family,

00:02:31.660 | I have seven siblings, my mom was a stay-at-home mom,

00:02:34.360 | you know, I wanted to make it so that they could be okay.

00:02:37.320 | So I just find that interesting

00:02:39.360 | when people just stay super down to earth,

00:02:41.260 | regardless of their circumstances.

00:02:42.960 | - Yeah, and for me, there was also a motivation to,

00:02:46.480 | with the basketball part, to kind of forge my own identity.

00:02:49.320 | - Right.

00:02:50.440 | - You know, being in Columbia, and it is a college town,

00:02:52.880 | but it's a small town in certain ways.

00:02:55.520 | And so, you know, being around sports,

00:02:57.840 | I realized that I could forge my own identity

00:03:00.240 | in the shadow of kind of my father, my grandfather,

00:03:03.000 | my parents, and all the success that they've had.

00:03:05.800 | And so sports was a big impact on me.

00:03:08.480 | - Do you feel like you had to become at an early age,

00:03:10.520 | like a very good judge of character,

00:03:12.240 | even like just with friends that you would hang around,

00:03:14.300 | but you know, when it comes to dating or girls,

00:03:16.400 | like, is that something you felt like

00:03:18.020 | you had to develop pretty early on?

00:03:19.880 | - Yeah, you know, I don't think I'm the sharpest tool

00:03:24.160 | in the shed when it comes to certain things,

00:03:26.160 | but you know, I think my EQ and reading people,

00:03:29.000 | I'm fairly decent at it.

00:03:30.480 | You know, I remember being in like fourth grade,

00:03:34.520 | and I just moved into a new house.

00:03:37.320 | And I remember overhearing someone in the lunch line

00:03:41.960 | saying they wanted to become my friend

00:03:43.980 | so they could come see my house, my parents' house.

00:03:46.880 | And so when you're that little, it's interesting,

00:03:48.920 | 'cause it kind of takes you back,

00:03:50.020 | because it's not anything

00:03:50.960 | that you've ever really thought about,

00:03:53.240 | but it does, you know, put your guard up in certain ways.

00:03:56.800 | And so, you know, I've had to do a lot of personal work

00:03:59.960 | on trust and understanding that, you know,

00:04:04.960 | not everybody's out to get you.

00:04:07.240 | Not everybody's guilty until proven innocent, you know?

00:04:11.160 | But when it comes to relationships with other people,

00:04:13.020 | and especially relationships with women,

00:04:14.400 | I did have to, you know, overcome some certain fears

00:04:16.960 | in myself because there are good people in this world,

00:04:21.280 | not everybody's out to get you.

00:04:22.400 | And so reading that and understanding that,

00:04:24.940 | giving people the benefit of the doubt,

00:04:26.340 | but also being slightly guarded, you know,

00:04:29.100 | that was definitely something I had to develop over time,

00:04:31.000 | but very early on.

00:04:32.640 | - Yeah, it's a hurdle, I think, even, you know,

00:04:35.360 | that I go through.

00:04:36.680 | - Yeah.

00:04:37.520 | - And I've noticed, you know, even like being around you

00:04:38.820 | at the Super Bowl, which was amazing,

00:04:41.720 | you're still around a lot of the same people

00:04:43.920 | that you kind of grew up with,

00:04:44.760 | like hearing them talk and talk about you and stuff

00:04:47.000 | and how proud they were of you.

00:04:48.200 | And their stories were always like,

00:04:49.520 | I'm knowing Josh forever.

00:04:51.240 | So I think it's cool that you kind of stay around

00:04:53.220 | the same people that you--

00:04:54.060 | - Yeah, you know, we've, and I still got a few buddies

00:04:56.720 | that I grew up playing basketball with.

00:04:57.980 | Kareem, I think was at, Kareem Rush was at the game.

00:05:00.580 | But yeah, I mean, you know, I think, you know,

00:05:04.160 | as life evolves and I have friends that I've just made

00:05:06.400 | within the last few years

00:05:08.280 | that have become good friends of mine.

00:05:09.640 | But I do have a core group of guys

00:05:11.280 | and a group of friends from back home.

00:05:14.600 | Definitely from Mizzou, a couple guys from Kansas City

00:05:18.880 | and guys that I just kind of was grew up around

00:05:21.000 | from late teens to early 20s

00:05:22.480 | and a lot of formative years in there.

00:05:23.880 | And I think it's important to, you know,

00:05:26.960 | stay in touch with people, understand that people grow

00:05:29.440 | and they sometimes they grow apart,

00:05:30.840 | but you always have a little bit of a bond

00:05:32.680 | and check in with people

00:05:33.920 | because you never know what people are going through.

00:05:35.600 | - 100%.

00:05:36.440 | - Yeah.

00:05:37.260 | - And basketball was a big part of your childhood.

00:05:38.880 | Talk about, you know, going to Mizzou,

00:05:42.080 | were you nice, were you like,

00:05:44.240 | were you, you actually got buckets, were you nice?

00:05:47.120 | How was that?

00:05:47.960 | - Well, I definitely wasn't getting buckets like you,

00:05:49.040 | trust me on that one.

00:05:50.080 | But yeah, I mean, I was like a top 50,

00:05:53.960 | top 75 recruit in high school.

00:05:56.720 | Went to Rockbridge in Columbia

00:05:58.440 | and actually my senior year, I hurt my knee.

00:06:02.560 | I didn't tear my ACL, but I had my left kneecap

00:06:06.640 | with sublux and kind of come out of the alignment.

00:06:09.440 | And so I had to have it scoped

00:06:11.360 | and I came back way too soon

00:06:13.080 | because I really wanted to play as my senior year.

00:06:15.880 | And so, but I could tell that I wasn't right.

00:06:18.280 | And so after the season was over,

00:06:20.000 | I took a little time and thought about it.

00:06:23.000 | And I did, I did decided to do a fifth year

00:06:24.640 | and went to prep school.

00:06:25.720 | - Okay.

00:06:26.720 | - I was, I didn't turn 18 until right when I graduated.

00:06:29.600 | So I was kind of a little bit young for my grade,

00:06:31.800 | even though it was still the correct,

00:06:33.240 | correct position for me to be in.

00:06:34.520 | And so I did a post-grad year in New Hampshire

00:06:37.480 | where I got stronger, got my knee healthy again

00:06:41.160 | and really got my, my bounce back.

00:06:42.920 | And then came back to play in Mizzou in the fall of '99.

00:06:46.440 | And that was when there was a change in coaching.

00:06:49.760 | And we went, Quinn Snyder was hired.

00:06:52.760 | And so yeah, Quinn, he was, and he's still coaching

00:06:56.560 | and having a great career coaching in the NBA today.

00:06:58.800 | And he, I learned so much from being around him

00:07:02.760 | and around the program.

00:07:04.480 | We had some, we had a little bit of success

00:07:05.920 | and I started the first half of my junior and senior years,

00:07:09.440 | but there was always, you know,

00:07:10.680 | more talented guys behind me.

00:07:12.320 | - Who was on that team?

00:07:13.160 | I'm trying to think.

00:07:14.560 | - My junior year, excuse me, my red shirt sophomore year,

00:07:17.360 | we made the Elite Eight.

00:07:18.280 | We lost to Oklahoma.

00:07:19.280 | That was as far as we made in the tournament.

00:07:21.040 | I thought we were going to beat them,

00:07:22.000 | but they had, they had a really good team, Hollis Price.

00:07:24.800 | And then when I'm on our squad,

00:07:28.200 | that was Kareem Rush, Clarence Gilbert,

00:07:30.520 | Arthur Johnson, Ricky Paulding.

00:07:33.760 | And then my later years, my junior year,

00:07:37.560 | I started half the year and then got beat out rightfully so

00:07:40.720 | by a guy named Jimmy McKinney from St. Louis, great player.

00:07:44.320 | And then my senior year,

00:07:45.480 | we had another young two guard named Thomas Gardner,

00:07:48.200 | played in the pros for a year or two.

00:07:49.560 | But by the end of my senior year,

00:07:51.520 | I could, my knees were really hurting.

00:07:52.960 | I had another surgery on my right knee.

00:07:55.320 | And so I was just kind of,

00:07:57.040 | I was in a state of flux where I loved the game,

00:08:00.120 | but, you know, being so committed at the collegiate level,

00:08:02.360 | I didn't have the opportunity to really do a lot

00:08:04.400 | in the summer times,

00:08:05.240 | like from a professional standpoint

00:08:06.720 | and thinking about the rest of life.

00:08:08.440 | And so I had a couple offers to play in Europe,

00:08:10.280 | but I passed them up and got into the real world,

00:08:14.640 | so to speak.

00:08:15.480 | And it's been fun.

00:08:17.400 | I did an internship right out of school

00:08:20.180 | with the NBA league office.

00:08:21.760 | And that was eye opening on a lot of levels

00:08:24.620 | because it shows you how the league operates

00:08:27.560 | and how, you know, I mean,

00:08:29.300 | how big of a business it really is.

00:08:31.040 | You know, when you're at the league level,

00:08:32.140 | you're not dealing at the team level.

00:08:33.760 | It's all business all the time.

00:08:36.080 | It was also very humbling

00:08:37.160 | because I was in the player programs department

00:08:40.800 | and under the, Chris Achin, who I'm sure you know as well.

00:08:44.240 | She was at the league at the time.

00:08:45.400 | Chris is a wonderful, wonderful person.

00:08:47.720 | And she taught me a lot while I was there.

00:08:50.280 | And she was, we, our group was in charge

00:08:52.480 | of the rookie transition program.

00:08:54.360 | - Okay, yeah. - And so.

00:08:55.200 | - Yeah, out in New York, right?

00:08:56.720 | - Yep, yep.

00:08:58.040 | And so the rookie transition program kind of is,

00:09:01.160 | you know, for those that might not be familiar with it,

00:09:03.560 | is a, you know, kind of a crash course

00:09:06.200 | in how to be an adult.

00:09:07.220 | That's just, you know, for better or worse.

00:09:09.540 | And I went from competing against all those guys

00:09:13.580 | about three months prior.

00:09:15.300 | - Yeah.

00:09:16.140 | - And then now I was the one making copies

00:09:18.000 | and making sure everybody was on time.

00:09:20.560 | And I would see these guys and have to say hello.

00:09:22.500 | And they knew who I was

00:09:23.340 | 'cause we competed against each other,

00:09:24.540 | but I was completely on the other side of it.

00:09:26.660 | - Yeah.

00:09:27.500 | - And so that was, it was very humbling right away.

00:09:30.100 | But you could see, you know, the growth

00:09:31.940 | that really took place in myself

00:09:34.420 | over those few years in New York.

00:09:36.060 | I did the internship for about six months.

00:09:39.720 | Then I was unemployed for two months in New York,

00:09:41.580 | which was probably the most fun two months of my life.

00:09:44.740 | (both laughing)

00:09:46.460 | - Unemployed.

00:09:47.300 | - Yeah.

00:09:48.140 | (both laughing)

00:09:51.300 | But then after that, I worked for an investment bank

00:09:55.820 | called Lehman Brothers.

00:09:57.980 | They're no longer a firm anymore.

00:10:00.980 | They went under during the crash of late 2007, '08, '09.

00:10:05.980 | And it was a great experience.

00:10:09.820 | I learned how to, you know, look at certain deals

00:10:12.860 | from a financial perspective.

00:10:14.940 | Really taught me how to value,

00:10:17.900 | or the backbone of kind of our family business

00:10:20.560 | outside of sports is real estate, commercial real estate.

00:10:23.620 | And so I was a commercial real estate underwriter

00:10:25.420 | in their finance group for a few years.

00:10:27.540 | And I learned so much,

00:10:29.460 | but I think as much as it's important

00:10:31.740 | to learn what you love to do,

00:10:33.140 | it's also important what you love not to do.

00:10:36.700 | And so I knew that I really wanted to be more involved.

00:10:39.480 | If I was ever gonna be involved in sports,

00:10:41.380 | be more involved at the team level.

00:10:43.740 | Thought I would find that much more rewarding.

00:10:45.340 | And from a family business overall perspective,

00:10:48.320 | I really learned how to look at a deal from,

00:10:51.020 | a real estate deal from the other side of it,

00:10:52.840 | from the financial banking side,

00:10:54.680 | as opposed to the development side.

00:10:56.100 | And I think that's helped me to this day.

00:10:57.980 | Helped me understand kind of things

00:10:59.460 | that we're doing across our venues.

00:11:02.240 | You know, when you're trying to redevelop something

00:11:04.100 | in or around our venues, our arenas with our teams,

00:11:07.300 | and then our shopping centers

00:11:08.580 | that we have around the country as well.

00:11:09.840 | So it was a great experience.

00:11:11.600 | I moved to Denver in 2007.

00:11:14.220 | Started watching tape with the Nuggets coaches

00:11:16.760 | and never looked back.

00:11:19.180 | - Real quick.

00:11:20.020 | Did you hear what happened to me

00:11:20.840 | at the rookie transition camp in New York?

00:11:22.740 | Was this the one where you posted Adam Silver's number?

00:11:25.380 | (laughing)

00:11:26.620 | So, I mean, I didn't know that you knew

00:11:29.060 | what rookie transition even was, man.

00:11:31.340 | We're sitting there like, you know, in the classroom,

00:11:33.640 | learning about something.

00:11:35.120 | And they have this slide show or whatever.

00:11:37.660 | And I just take a picture of the room

00:11:40.220 | on Snapchat or whatever.

00:11:41.780 | But like, his number is posted on the screen.

00:11:44.580 | - On the screen.

00:11:45.420 | (laughing)

00:11:46.260 | - And like, I didn't even realize I posted it,

00:11:48.140 | but I look on my Snapchat 10 minutes later,

00:11:50.060 | and my sister replied to it and was like,

00:11:52.660 | you know you just put Adam Silver's number out there.

00:11:54.660 | So I look at the post and it already had

00:11:56.060 | like a thousand screenshots.

00:11:57.180 | (laughing)

00:11:58.020 | And then like, literally like 10 minutes later,

00:12:01.380 | they put it out on, they put it on the screen

00:12:03.740 | in the classroom.

00:12:05.820 | And they were like, basically,

00:12:08.700 | I thought I was gonna get kicked out the league.

00:12:10.260 | - Oh wow.

00:12:11.100 | - It was like a big deal.

00:12:11.920 | And like, I ended up having to get up on stage

00:12:14.340 | and apologize in front of everybody.

00:12:15.820 | They were like, the way they worded it though,

00:12:18.540 | they were like, yes, someone in this room

00:12:20.740 | leaked Adam Silver's number.

00:12:22.420 | They're gonna come up here and apologize.

00:12:24.020 | So everyone around the class is looking around

00:12:25.700 | and I have to stand up, get up on the stage,

00:12:28.820 | and apologize.

00:12:29.660 | - Did they tell you in advance

00:12:30.480 | they were gonna have you do it?

00:12:31.320 | - Like, they brought me in the back room

00:12:32.260 | with like Adam Silver's like,

00:12:33.300 | and they were like, what were you doing?

00:12:34.500 | I was like, it was an honest accident, I'm sorry.

00:12:37.460 | I can get up on stage and apologize if you guys want to.

00:12:39.580 | They were like, yeah, we're gonna have you do that.

00:12:41.820 | So it was like a whole situation,

00:12:43.340 | but that's funny that you were out in New York

00:12:45.280 | for a few years.

00:12:46.380 | - It was good, it was a good time.

00:12:47.620 | And I did see that, but.

00:12:49.700 | - It was crazy.

00:12:51.420 | But yeah, so you go through college,

00:12:55.340 | you go through that internship and everything like that,

00:12:58.140 | and then you realize you want to be a part

00:12:59.280 | of the business world.

00:13:00.660 | When did you and your father and your family in general

00:13:03.080 | decide you wanted to start owning teams?

00:13:05.800 | - For my father, it goes back to kind of a dream

00:13:12.060 | that he's had for a very long time.

00:13:13.820 | I think that, and he's a huge sports fan in general,

00:13:18.420 | I think my family, we love sports.

00:13:20.680 | I was always taught to kind of,

00:13:22.100 | both by my dad and my mom,

00:13:24.660 | use sports as a metaphor for life.

00:13:26.540 | There's teamwork, sacrifice, understanding

00:13:30.540 | how you can help others.

00:13:31.960 | And so for me, I guess, I'm rambling a little bit,

00:13:38.460 | what was your original question?

00:13:43.060 | 'Cause I was gonna go down one way,

00:13:44.100 | I don't wanna make sure I answered the question.

00:13:44.940 | - No, I mean, yeah, we're just talking a little bit more,

00:13:46.340 | just like how did you get into that?

00:13:47.740 | - Yeah, so like, it was my dad's dream kind of way back when

00:13:52.080 | and I guess I would say that as a real estate developer,

00:13:55.480 | he was always looking for a potential deal.

00:13:58.720 | And the first deal that ever kind of came around

00:14:01.720 | was when the NFL was expanding in 1993, '94 maybe, '92.

00:14:06.720 | And that was, the NFL was expanding

00:14:11.440 | and they were gonna award two new teams to two cities.

00:14:14.520 | And so St. Louis wanted to be on the ticket

00:14:16.880 | and my dad partnered with some guys locally,

00:14:20.700 | they reached out to him and unfortunately,

00:14:23.500 | it didn't result in an expansion franchise.

00:14:26.960 | But when that didn't work out,

00:14:30.160 | he helped position another group of people

00:14:33.500 | to come to St. Louis and that resulted in the Rams moving.

00:14:36.780 | And then from there, it became a really,

00:14:41.780 | just a minority investment in an NFL team

00:14:45.380 | that morphed into, he was looking around for,

00:14:49.520 | like I said, as a real estate developer,

00:14:52.000 | potentially a deal that involved a stadium venue

00:14:55.580 | and teams as well.

00:14:56.960 | And he looked around, I think there was a few opportunities

00:14:59.760 | and then all of a sudden the Denver deal presented itself.

00:15:02.320 | And so when you have a real estate developer

00:15:04.060 | that can make sense of a real estate deal

00:15:06.720 | that involves two sports teams,

00:15:08.780 | that was kind of how we, what I say is,

00:15:10.600 | we were a real estate family that kind of fell into sports

00:15:13.300 | due to our love with it,

00:15:14.140 | because that was the Avalanche Nuggets

00:15:16.900 | and at the time was called Pepsi Center,

00:15:18.800 | which is now Ball Arena.

00:15:19.940 | - Right.

00:15:20.860 | - And then that has morphed into what we have now,

00:15:23.640 | which is SoFi Stadium and the LA Rams.

00:15:27.720 | We have Ball Arena, the teams in Avalanche Nuggets

00:15:31.160 | and also the Colorado Mammoth.

00:15:33.160 | We have Dick's Sporting Goods Park,

00:15:34.400 | which is where Colorado Rapids play in Denver.

00:15:37.640 | And then the other one, which is the really big one,

00:15:40.760 | is over in London.

00:15:42.640 | We have Arsenal Football Club.

00:15:44.520 | - Got you.

00:15:45.360 | - Yeah.

00:15:46.180 | - As a team owner and it's been a long time coming

00:15:49.120 | and there's been a lot of recent success of your teams,

00:15:52.240 | championships with us, the Avs, the Rams,

00:15:55.400 | which has to make you guys,

00:15:57.700 | definitely in the most recent years,

00:15:59.160 | some of the most successful team owners in the history,

00:16:01.600 | but during that long process of developing the teams,

00:16:06.600 | drafting players,

00:16:07.600 | was there ever thought of letting some of these things go

00:16:10.960 | or you guys have been committed from the jump

00:16:13.280 | with all these teams?

00:16:14.360 | - We've been pretty committed.

00:16:16.360 | We're long-term holders in really everything that we do.

00:16:19.160 | My father's philosophy,

00:16:21.680 | and I know that's one I'll carry forward with me as well,

00:16:24.780 | is whenever you invest in something,

00:16:26.800 | if you're looking to make a short buck on it

00:16:28.880 | or try to figure out a way to make an exit somewhere,

00:16:31.080 | that's usually not our strategy.

00:16:32.440 | I know there's some brilliant people out there

00:16:33.940 | that can make sense of deals like that,

00:16:35.420 | but we're always, we wanna invest in something

00:16:37.560 | that makes sense for us over the long term.

00:16:39.600 | And so, when he did the Denver deal in 2000,

00:16:43.360 | I was still in school, I was at Mizzou.

00:16:47.160 | I remember him telling me about it

00:16:49.240 | and me just being incredibly excited.

00:16:51.320 | But then they set out and they built

00:16:54.400 | kind of the first version of the Nuggets

00:16:56.120 | underneath kind of our family.

00:16:58.960 | And that resulted in some really amazing teams.

00:17:02.140 | They hadn't made the playoffs in I don't know how long,

00:17:03.880 | but they kind of stripped the roster down

00:17:06.260 | over the first year,

00:17:08.120 | drafted Carmelo Anthony in the summer of 2003,

00:17:11.040 | and then they started signing free agents.

00:17:13.440 | And by the spring of 2004, they were in the playoffs,

00:17:17.440 | I think for nine or 10 straight years.

00:17:20.160 | And that was a level of success

00:17:23.040 | that the Nuggets hadn't quite had.

00:17:24.440 | And then, when my dad and I kind of really sat down

00:17:29.140 | to talk about the future

00:17:30.920 | of how we could build the Nuggets back,

00:17:34.360 | I knew that, I had some philosophy.

00:17:37.160 | I'd been around the team for probably four or five years

00:17:39.120 | at that point in time.

00:17:40.480 | And I'd watched a lot of basketball

00:17:42.720 | and kind of tried to devise some sort of strategy.

00:17:45.960 | I was like, it's never been done in Denver.

00:17:48.760 | We've never won the whole thing.

00:17:50.020 | How can we actually do this?

00:17:52.480 | And for me, the only advantage that we could really create

00:17:55.400 | was to kind of elongate our timeline.

00:17:58.840 | And so, draft really good players

00:18:01.840 | that are also really good people,

00:18:04.020 | surround them with really good coaching,

00:18:06.120 | and try to grow something organically over time.

00:18:09.220 | And it's never gonna be perfect.

00:18:12.600 | Progress is never linear, as you know.

00:18:15.400 | I mean, our squad was up and down those first few years.

00:18:18.360 | You guys were all kind of learning different things,

00:18:20.480 | the different roles.

00:18:21.980 | And now, all of a sudden, you see it start to gel.

00:18:24.480 | And then, you guys get hit with injuries.

00:18:27.600 | And so, it required a certain amount of patience,

00:18:29.720 | but also knowing that, at the end of the day,

00:18:33.240 | we had really good people.

00:18:35.880 | And that's why we're really proud of you guys as players.

00:18:38.600 | But I think that the group of people that we have down there

00:18:41.360 | is really unique around the NBA and how you guys all

00:18:43.680 | play for each other.

00:18:45.280 | Our culture has kind of evolved to a place

00:18:47.020 | where I couldn't be prouder of it.

00:18:49.400 | And then, the icing on the cake was

00:18:50.900 | to finally win the championship last year.

00:18:53.720 | But it all started kind of watching--

00:18:56.600 | we had a 57-win team in 2012, 2013.

00:19:00.960 | And we won 57 games and didn't have an All-Star.

00:19:04.040 | And that's pretty hard to do in the NBA.

00:19:07.240 | But I would watch that team.

00:19:09.880 | And I remember watching us down in Miami.

00:19:12.000 | And we played the Heat toe-to-toe for about 46

00:19:16.800 | minutes.

00:19:18.040 | And then, they could go to a level

00:19:19.960 | and close those games out that we just didn't quite have.

00:19:23.560 | And so, I was like, OK, if we're going

00:19:25.320 | to take this step backwards, and we're

00:19:27.240 | going to finally come back to the playoffs one day,

00:19:30.100 | we're going to come back with a team that's

00:19:31.840 | built to be sustainable and continually

00:19:35.440 | grow our ceiling organically.

00:19:38.280 | And that's what you guys did, man.

00:19:39.760 | You guys all worked your butts off.

00:19:41.640 | You guys all figured out how to come together.

00:19:43.800 | I remember I wasn't in the bubble,

00:19:45.200 | but watching you guys kind of--

00:19:47.200 | I think in the bubble, there was a new level of confidence

00:19:49.920 | that was reached.

00:19:50.840 | I saw you stepping up in new ways,

00:19:53.280 | Yoke and Jamal doing their thing.

00:19:54.880 | And it really kind of was a--

00:19:58.560 | I was watching on television going,

00:20:00.160 | this group can really do something special.

00:20:02.040 | Yeah.

00:20:02.540 | Yeah.

00:20:03.560 | And so, that was the first time where I really was like, OK,

00:20:06.800 | now how can we start to go for this?

00:20:09.400 | And then, the patients that I talked about,

00:20:11.740 | we come out of the bubble, we kind of hit the ground running.

00:20:14.660 | But we had lost Jeremy in free agency.

00:20:17.760 | And it took a little while for us

00:20:19.220 | to figure out how we wanted to try to fill that void.

00:20:22.480 | And then, when Aaron came along, we

00:20:24.520 | jumped at that opportunity to get AG in the squad.

00:20:27.160 | And then, I think we ran off, I don't

00:20:30.040 | know what we were those 10 games after we traded for Aaron,

00:20:32.540 | but we were like 9 and 1 or something like that.

00:20:35.280 | It was before Jamal got hurt.

00:20:37.000 | And it was like, I don't think we lost a game.

00:20:38.960 | Yeah, we were something like that.

00:20:40.000 | We were 8 and 2, 9 and 1.

00:20:41.200 | But we were beating good teams and beating them pretty handily.

00:20:45.280 | And then, Jamal went down.

00:20:46.880 | And you can't-- and I think that while we knew it internally

00:20:50.480 | at the time, maybe the rest of the league didn't,

00:20:52.520 | we couldn't replace Jamal with anybody.

00:20:54.520 | There was a level of skill and a level of chemistry

00:20:57.320 | that we knew we just had to sit tight.

00:20:59.240 | And then, the following fall, I mean,

00:21:01.520 | you had to go through another adventure again.

00:21:04.200 | And I mean, it's amazing to think how far the group has

00:21:08.840 | come and how far certain individuals have come, man.

00:21:11.960 | And I'm sure you look back on things at different times.

00:21:14.640 | And it's amazing to think how far we've come

00:21:17.160 | and how far we can still go.

00:21:18.520 | Yeah.

00:21:19.320 | No, that's crazy.

00:21:20.040 | Yeah, I saw some post or whatever.

00:21:22.720 | It was talking about the individual stories

00:21:25.000 | of all the guys on our team and how it really

00:21:27.000 | was grown organically.

00:21:29.040 | When did you realize we had something special with Nicola?

00:21:34.600 | Did you know that early on?

00:21:35.720 | I know Nerkich was here at the time.

00:21:37.200 | Yeah.

00:21:37.700 | Yeah, that was-- it's a funny story about Nicola.

00:21:41.600 | And if anybody tells you they knew,

00:21:43.160 | they are lying through their teeth.

00:21:45.240 | I didn't know.

00:21:45.960 | The first year I got drafted, I went to training camp.

00:21:49.360 | And I had no idea.

00:21:50.600 | Like, just because he treats a game different than practice.

00:21:54.000 | So I'm seeing Mason Plumlee and Nicola go at it.

00:21:56.160 | I'm like, wait, why does Nicola start over Mason?

00:21:58.400 | Like, I remember that was my thought process.

00:22:00.320 | So yeah, yeah, tell me that story.

00:22:02.560 | How did you--

00:22:03.120 | So yeah, Yoke is a funny story.

00:22:06.320 | I remember sitting with our former president of basketball

00:22:09.520 | ops and GM at the time, Tim Connolly and Arturis Karnashovas.

00:22:13.140 | One of them now runs the Timberwolves.

00:22:14.760 | One of them now runs the Chicago Bulls.

00:22:17.560 | But they were in our front office at the time.

00:22:19.880 | And they're like, hey, there's this guy

00:22:21.460 | that you should see on tape because we want him

00:22:24.880 | to keep his name in the draft.

00:22:26.480 | But he wants to stay over in Europe for one more year.

00:22:29.040 | And we're in a phase at the time where

00:22:31.440 | we wanted as many young players as we could get

00:22:33.880 | and to try to see what we could grow.

00:22:36.120 | And so I was actually like, why does he

00:22:40.820 | want to stay over in Europe one more year?

00:22:42.780 | And both Tim and Arturis were like, it's

00:22:44.640 | best for his development.

00:22:45.840 | And we think that there's a skill level there

00:22:47.720 | that could be interesting.

00:22:50.280 | But I remember them showing me on tape.

00:22:52.240 | And Nicola's wearing like this--

00:22:54.280 | their colors were like pink and blue.

00:22:57.320 | And Nicola couldn't jump over a phone book.

00:22:59.160 | But he'd catch these balls.

00:23:01.400 | And he'd throw these passes.

00:23:02.600 | And you're like, I don't know how that's going to translate.

00:23:06.400 | But that player's basketball IQ is obviously off the charts.

00:23:10.600 | And so we drafted him.

00:23:13.800 | He stayed over for one more year.

00:23:15.160 | And then he came over in the summer of 2015.

00:23:17.360 | And my dad actually has really good stories

00:23:19.640 | about being down in the weight room early

00:23:22.600 | in the morning that summer.

00:23:23.720 | And Nicola would be in there every morning

00:23:25.520 | with his two brothers.

00:23:26.760 | And they'd be beating on him before the coaches would even

00:23:29.720 | come in.

00:23:30.200 | And he'd be in there.

00:23:31.060 | But over time, I think Nicola cleaned up his diet.

00:23:35.240 | He understood what it took to be a professional.

00:23:37.440 | And you referenced Yusef Nerkic, who

00:23:39.640 | was another really good young player that we

00:23:41.520 | had on our roster at the time.

00:23:43.680 | And we couldn't quite tell what to do with both of them.

00:23:48.600 | Because Yusef, I think, had made second team all-rookie.

00:23:52.640 | And Nicola was coming over.

00:23:53.800 | And so we had a very established center.

00:23:56.760 | But we knew that they both had really good hands, really

00:23:59.200 | good skills.

00:24:00.400 | And the thing that was unfortunate

00:24:03.480 | is the league was trending-- that

00:24:05.100 | was when the Warriors were on their ascension.

00:24:07.240 | And the league was trending to this small ball,

00:24:11.160 | shooting everywhere.

00:24:12.760 | And even more extreme than it is now, almost.

00:24:16.240 | It was like everyone wanted to try to be the Warriors almost

00:24:18.840 | overnight.

00:24:19.960 | And you couldn't play Nicola and Yusef together.

00:24:23.840 | You had two seven-footers that were incredibly skilled

00:24:26.200 | and very unselfish guys.

00:24:28.000 | But trying to play them together,

00:24:29.640 | while it did present its advantages at certain points,

00:24:32.040 | it was tough for them to cover whenever

00:24:34.440 | you got almost four guards out there moving around in sync.

00:24:38.280 | And it's a tough defensive cover.

00:24:40.720 | So we had to really put our heads together

00:24:42.920 | on what we wanted to do.

00:24:43.960 | And fortunately, by the time-- after Nicola's first season,

00:24:49.960 | I think he made first team all-rookie.

00:24:52.560 | And then we were halfway into the second year.

00:24:55.680 | And we were really realizing that we couldn't-- we

00:24:58.880 | had to pick-- we had to choose.

00:25:00.280 | Because they're both starting-level centers.

00:25:03.120 | And I think Yusef's contract was coming up in about a year.

00:25:07.200 | And so we were having our analytics group

00:25:09.800 | run all the different numbers of how to compare the two

00:25:13.640 | and what to look for.

00:25:14.640 | And all of a sudden, this comparison comes through.

00:25:17.560 | And fortunately, we had enough data at the time

00:25:19.720 | to be able to really put together per 36 minutes

00:25:23.240 | and compare different things.

00:25:25.640 | And so this comparison comes through.

00:25:28.080 | And it's player A and player B. And it

00:25:30.840 | was during their second season.

00:25:33.960 | And the only difference of the two

00:25:36.120 | is that player A is two years older than player

00:25:39.600 | B at the time of their second year in the NBA.

00:25:41.880 | Player A just entered the league later.

00:25:44.280 | And you could clearly see that player B's numbers were better

00:25:47.800 | in really every category.

00:25:50.700 | And so I was like, OK.

00:25:51.840 | I was like, I'm going to guess that player B is Nicola.

00:25:55.240 | And they're like, yep, you're right.

00:25:56.880 | Player B is Nicola.

00:25:57.760 | And I'm like, all right.

00:25:58.360 | Well, then who are we talking about with player A?

00:26:00.360 | Is this some sort of comparison with Nurk?

00:26:01.900 | Or is this some sort of comparison

00:26:03.400 | with someone else in the league?

00:26:04.280 | And they're like, player A is Larry Bird.

00:26:08.440 | And I was like, oh.

00:26:11.000 | Like, you looked at the per 36?

00:26:12.560 | Yeah.

00:26:13.060 | Wow.

00:26:13.560 | And so that was when I think all of us

00:26:16.360 | kind of looked at each other.

00:26:17.880 | Because sometimes when you talk to a basketball purist,

00:26:21.080 | even, to your point, Nicola, his skill set and the way

00:26:25.040 | that he plays, the eye test, he doesn't jump out at you

00:26:28.200 | right away.

00:26:29.200 | But when you watch it over time and you

00:26:31.000 | understand what he's doing and how he's affecting a game,

00:26:34.480 | it really jumps out at you.

00:26:36.240 | And so that was when-- and that was in-- that

00:26:39.160 | was like the first week of December.

00:26:41.160 | And I think we were on like a four or five game

00:26:43.360 | skit at the time.

00:26:44.080 | And then Tim and I wound up on the phone.

00:26:45.400 | I was like, Tim, I'm never going to tell anyone who to play,

00:26:48.520 | any coach what to do.

00:26:49.600 | But if we're going to pick one, tell them to put Nicola in.

00:26:53.440 | And we got to roll with it.

00:26:55.400 | And then that was the famous-- the next night

00:26:59.240 | or the night after was-- the date was that December

00:27:03.520 | something when-- that was when Yoke went into the starting

00:27:05.480 | lineup and never came out.

00:27:06.880 | Never looked back.

00:27:07.720 | And it's crazy, because--

00:27:08.880 | It was in Dallas, I think, yeah.

00:27:10.360 | Yeah, I have unlimited Nicola stories, too.

00:27:12.640 | You talk about the cleaning up the diet and stuff.

00:27:14.880 | My first couple years, I mean, he cared about basketball.

00:27:17.320 | But he would go home to Serbia in the summer

00:27:19.520 | and come back out of shape.

00:27:20.840 | I've seen him progress every year.

00:27:22.920 | Even from MVP year to MVP year, he's somehow progressing.

00:27:26.280 | So you guys obviously made the right choice, man.

00:27:30.640 | There's a lot of talk about his number, number 15,

00:27:33.760 | and him and Carmelo Anthony.

00:27:36.720 | I don't even know the whole story of what came out.

00:27:40.140 | But yeah, talk a little bit about your thoughts

00:27:42.140 | on that whole situation.

00:27:43.480 | Yeah, that's a funny one.

00:27:44.840 | I saw Melo was on something fairly recently.

00:27:47.760 | And my first-- it's interesting to think back,

00:27:51.400 | because my first meeting when I was

00:27:53.040 | put in charge of the Nuggets in the summer of 2010

00:27:56.040 | was to fly to Baltimore and sit in a hotel room

00:27:59.120 | where it was he, his agent, and one other guy that

00:28:02.660 | worked with him.

00:28:03.320 | And he asked to be traded.

00:28:05.000 | And they gave us two teams.

00:28:07.080 | And I put that in my back pocket, went back to Denver.

00:28:12.080 | I was kind of-- our front office was in flux at the time.

00:28:15.840 | And then I wound up hiring a guy named Masai Ujiri,

00:28:19.540 | now runs the Toronto Raptors.

00:28:20.960 | And then he and I and another person named Pete D'Alessandro

00:28:24.840 | worked on that trade for about six months.

00:28:27.580 | And so we got through the trade.

00:28:31.760 | And you don't really think about much.

00:28:35.280 | We had Allen Iverson for a number of years.

00:28:38.600 | And Ty Lawson wore number three.

00:28:42.280 | And so it's not anything that really ever crossed our mind.

00:28:47.200 | And so I was very surprised to hear

00:28:48.960 | Carmelo say that the other day, because it wasn't something

00:28:51.440 | that ever crossed my mind.

00:28:52.520 | I think Nicola has worn number 15 his entire career,

00:28:56.600 | even when he was over in Europe.

00:28:59.520 | And so it wasn't something that really crossed our mind.

00:29:03.600 | And to have Nicola, I think, ascend to the level

00:29:06.560 | that he's at, maybe that might get under somebody's skin,

00:29:10.120 | I guess, perhaps.

00:29:10.920 | But I don't know.

00:29:11.720 | I think Nicola's always worn 15.

00:29:13.520 | It was never anything that we ever thought about.

00:29:15.800 | And I'm just happy that Nicola's on our team.

00:29:20.600 | What specifically was Melo upset about?

00:29:22.560 | Was it that someone else got to wear his number?

00:29:24.920 | His number didn't get retired?

00:29:26.720 | I'm not 100% sure.

00:29:28.880 | I think Melo, he had an unbelievable career with us.

00:29:32.200 | He really put the Nuggets back on the map in a really positive

00:29:34.800 | way.

00:29:35.800 | I think that there was--

00:29:38.120 | it's interesting when a player wants to be traded from a team.

00:29:43.160 | And that creates certain feelings.

00:29:47.520 | It took a while for our fan base in Denver

00:29:49.640 | to get over that as well.

00:29:52.960 | It was an interesting scenario, because that whole saga really

00:29:55.960 | started the summer before, the summer of 2010.

00:30:01.520 | That was when LeBron had left Miami--

00:30:03.640 | or excuse me, left Cleveland to go to Miami.

00:30:06.160 | And so player empowerment and movement

00:30:08.120 | was really just starting to reach its peak.

00:30:12.360 | And I think that's great.

00:30:13.720 | I think you guys have one shot at your careers.

00:30:15.800 | We're kind of custodians of that career.

00:30:17.760 | We obviously have our own goals in trying to build our teams.

00:30:20.800 | But I always respect if somebody wants to go do something else.

00:30:24.720 | But for the city of Denver, I think

00:30:27.000 | they took it very personally.

00:30:29.320 | And that took a little time for the city to get over.

00:30:32.360 | And I'm sure Melo didn't like being booed for the first few

00:30:35.160 | times he came back, because he did.

00:30:36.680 | He worked his butt off for the city.

00:30:38.180 | And we had a great run in there.

00:30:39.800 | We made the Western Conference Finals in 2009.

00:30:41.840 | That was the only time we made it out of the first round.

00:30:44.800 | But I think over time, hopefully, the feelings

00:30:48.280 | dissipate.

00:30:48.800 | I think if he was to come back to Denver,

00:30:50.660 | I think he'd probably get a different reception these days.

00:30:53.200 | But from a personal level, there was never

00:30:56.640 | any animosity or anything on our thinking about Nicola's number,

00:31:02.480 | because it was just the number that he wanted to wear

00:31:04.880 | and the number that he's worn forever.

00:31:06.680 | I think that it's been interesting to see

00:31:09.280 | his ascension to where he is.

00:31:10.640 | But for anyone to think that we gave a second round

00:31:16.200 | pick number 15, and knowing that it would someday turn into this,

00:31:20.080 | I think that's a pretty wild statement.

00:31:21.920 | Multiple times.

00:31:24.200 | That's funny, man.

00:31:25.000 | Well, you guys have done an incredible job.

00:31:26.800 | I want to talk a little bit about your guys' thought

00:31:29.340 | process with me coming into the league.

00:31:32.440 | Obviously, you were both from Columbia,

00:31:34.560 | so you had known about me, things like that.

00:31:37.000 | But I've been through a lot.

00:31:39.560 | The Clippers doctor spread the report throughout the league

00:31:42.840 | that they didn't know.

00:31:43.920 | They weren't sure if I'd be able to play basketball,

00:31:46.200 | considering my injuries.

00:31:48.480 | And a lot of teams were scared away by that.

00:31:50.400 | I remember the first time I got on the phone with the Nuggets

00:31:52.900 | was with Tim Conley on the day of the draft,

00:31:55.120 | because my agent wanted to create a floor.

00:31:57.240 | Like, OK, if he drops it here, this team will take him.

00:32:01.040 | So I had no idea going into the draft what was going to happen.

00:32:03.640 | What were those conversations like behind doors about me?

00:32:09.240 | Well, my Michael Porter Jr. story first starts--

00:32:12.160 | I think you were in seventh or eighth grade.

00:32:16.240 | A friend of mine sent me this link

00:32:18.680 | of some unknown skinny kid going up for a dunk.

00:32:23.680 | And I was like, wow.

00:32:25.240 | I was like, this kid's supposedly the best eighth

00:32:27.360 | grader in the country.

00:32:28.280 | And I was like, wow.

00:32:29.120 | I was like, I've never seen an eighth grader put--

00:32:31.360 | like, look at the rim, almost, like you were.

00:32:33.920 | And then I was like, wait a minute.

00:32:35.840 | I'm like, that's Jeff City's gym.

00:32:38.520 | That's Jefferson City.

00:32:39.440 | I'm like, that's-- I know that gym.

00:32:41.560 | We're my high school rivals.

00:32:43.000 | And so I did a quick search to try to find out

00:32:47.320 | more of what I was watching.

00:32:48.960 | And I was quickly told that Central Missouri

00:32:52.200 | had one of the best players in the country,

00:32:55.880 | because I was like, that section of the country

00:32:58.560 | doesn't produce talent like you.

00:33:01.360 | And so I was very aware of who you were from an early age.

00:33:04.940 | And I followed your career because I

00:33:06.440 | was kind of proud that we had someone of your caliber

00:33:09.120 | coming out of that section of the state.

00:33:11.960 | And so I followed your career.

00:33:16.680 | And then I was going to watch your first game at Mizzou.

00:33:20.400 | And then I heard about what had happened.

00:33:23.680 | And I think you were going through warm-ups, right?

00:33:26.000 | There was a couple of days leading up to it

00:33:27.760 | where you had some tightness, right?

00:33:28.840 | Yeah, the injury.

00:33:29.720 | Yeah, it happened a few days prior.

00:33:31.280 | But that was my first time experiencing anything

00:33:33.480 | strange, so I thought it would just dissipate.

00:33:35.400 | And it got worse.

00:33:36.120 | And the first game comes around.

00:33:37.720 | Yeah, and you were going through warm-ups.

00:33:39.460 | And then I think you had to play, what,

00:33:40.320 | the first 10 seconds before they--

00:33:41.760 | Yeah.

00:33:42.240 | It was so close to game time.

00:33:43.360 | They'd already turned in the lineup, right?

00:33:44.760 | It was so close to game time.

00:33:44.760 | They had already put the lineup up.

00:33:46.260 | So I go to my dad.

00:33:47.520 | And I'm like, dad, I don't think I can play.

00:33:48.760 | Like, I don't know what's going on, but I can't jump right.

00:33:51.520 | Like, I can't produce force like I want to.

00:33:54.120 | And then we went to the coaches.

00:33:55.840 | And they were like, OK, you just have to start the game.

00:33:58.180 | Because big national TV game, number one player

00:34:00.600 | in the country going to the University of Missouri,

00:34:03.520 | which never happens.

00:34:04.440 | And then so, yeah, I had to play the first 10 seconds.

00:34:07.240 | It came out.

00:34:07.800 | Yep.

00:34:08.760 | And then I followed what was going on.

00:34:13.360 | And I knew you came.

00:34:14.840 | You were really rushing to get back because you

00:34:17.160 | wanted to help your team.

00:34:18.720 | And that told me a lot about your character.

00:34:21.560 | If you were already thinking about the pros, which

00:34:24.840 | is a natural thing, I think that there's probably

00:34:28.280 | part of you that wants to think ultra long-term

00:34:31.560 | in that scenario.

00:34:32.320 | And I'm sure there was people around you.

00:34:33.440 | But it also told me that there was a person inside of you,

00:34:37.520 | inside of that player, that was really competitive,

00:34:40.000 | that wanted to get out there.

00:34:41.240 | And you wanted to help your teammates.

00:34:43.080 | And so as I watched that spring kind of evolve,

00:34:47.200 | and I heard about your draft workouts,

00:34:50.080 | leading into that week, I thought your floor

00:34:52.400 | in the draft, I think Chicago had seven.

00:34:55.120 | And seven or eight.

00:34:57.920 | But I also knew that when you were healthy,

00:35:00.560 | you were probably the best, if not one of the top two

00:35:03.600 | or three players in that draft.

00:35:05.280 | And we had just missed the playoffs by one game that year.

00:35:12.360 | And we were thinking that once we made it back to the playoffs,

00:35:16.480 | we knew we weren't going backwards.

00:35:19.080 | We had a good young team.

00:35:20.640 | And we just had a few things that we

00:35:22.720 | needed, we thought, to really put us in a new level.

00:35:27.000 | And so the day of the draft, I remember coming over

00:35:30.400 | and Tim had called me the night before the draft.

00:35:32.200 | And he goes, hey, I'm just going to put something on your radar.

00:35:33.920 | I was like, what's up?

00:35:35.400 | Because by missing the playoffs by one game,

00:35:38.800 | we picked 14 in the lottery.

00:35:40.880 | And so Tim called me.

00:35:43.280 | He's like, hey, I want to put something on your radar.

00:35:45.520 | And I'm like, what's up?

00:35:46.520 | And he goes, I heard something from a buddy of mine

00:35:49.720 | that Chicago might pass.

00:35:52.840 | And I'm like, I thought you told me earlier today that that

00:35:55.640 | was Michael's floor.

00:35:57.200 | And he goes, I don't know.

00:35:58.360 | He goes, I don't know what happened.

00:35:59.360 | I'm still trying to gather the information.

00:36:00.840 | I'll talk to you about it in the morning.

00:36:02.540 | And I said, OK.

00:36:03.200 | And so I came in the day of the draft.

00:36:05.480 | And Tim Arturas and I sit down.

00:36:07.480 | And they said that you may have had a spasm or something,

00:36:10.560 | like at a workout, and it might have scared a few teams.

00:36:13.120 | And I was like, really?

00:36:14.880 | I was like, this is just-- can we get more data on it?

00:36:17.280 | Is there any kind of-- and they're like,

00:36:18.840 | we're still trying to piece it together.

00:36:20.500 | But he could fall.

00:36:22.840 | And I was like, what do you mean he could fall?

00:36:25.320 | And I was like, guys, I'm like, that skill set

00:36:29.260 | does not grow on trees.

00:36:30.400 | I was like, what do you mean he could fall?

00:36:32.200 | And they're like, well, teams could get scared of the back.

00:36:35.800 | And I said, OK.

00:36:37.560 | And so then I rang my dad.

00:36:40.440 | And he came down that afternoon.

00:36:42.840 | And then the four of us, Arturas, Tim, myself, my dad,

00:36:46.040 | and we pulled Coach Malone in as well.

00:36:47.620 | And we said, look, if he's there, we're going to take him.

00:36:51.280 | And we got all our doctors in.

00:36:54.040 | And it was a really great group experience,

00:36:56.400 | because we all had to put our heads together

00:36:58.200 | from our own perspective.

00:36:59.600 | Tim and Arturas knew that they believed in your skill set

00:37:02.760 | and your talent.

00:37:04.320 | And then you had Coach Malone, who

00:37:05.700 | was understanding that this is something

00:37:07.400 | that was going to play out over multiple years,

00:37:09.640 | whereas a lot of coaches--

00:37:11.780 | and this is their job.

00:37:13.280 | Coaches have one responsibility.

00:37:15.040 | That's win the next game.

00:37:16.680 | And so you have to put-- and then our perspective

00:37:19.480 | is even further.

00:37:20.200 | It's how can we create the best talent over time?

00:37:23.640 | And so when your name was still there,

00:37:25.960 | it was a no-brainer for us.

00:37:27.440 | It might sound funny to some people,

00:37:29.200 | but I was really worried that the--

00:37:33.320 | you referenced a team that had two picks ahead of us.

00:37:35.680 | And I thought somebody might take a chance.

00:37:37.480 | Somebody's got to take a chance.

00:37:38.820 | Yeah.

00:37:39.320 | I think they may have, if it wasn't for their doctor that

00:37:42.680 | was doing the main analysis on me that day.

00:37:46.360 | And so our decision in the room that day,

00:37:48.680 | when we all kind of walked out after discussing

00:37:50.640 | the different concerns and thoughts from all

00:37:53.520 | of our own perspectives, was we'll never

00:37:56.440 | have a chance to draft another player like you,

00:37:59.180 | especially at that point in time with the group of players

00:38:02.560 | that we had, the skill set that you brought.

00:38:06.120 | And you could raise our ceiling immensely.

00:38:10.880 | But we knew it wasn't going to be right away.

00:38:12.800 | And so we had to--

00:38:14.600 | once we drafted you, we got you in.

00:38:17.160 | We let our doctors take a look at you.

00:38:18.800 | We made sure that you felt like one of the family.

00:38:21.280 | And we knew that there was going to be a long journey ahead.

00:38:24.120 | And I think you may have known.

00:38:26.160 | But looking back, you maybe didn't even

00:38:28.280 | realize what you were going to have to go through.

00:38:30.360 | And so you had another surgery.

00:38:32.180 | We sat you out that whole first year.

00:38:34.960 | We tried to make you feel like you were part of the group.

00:38:37.800 | Hopefully, you did, even though you weren't getting to play.

00:38:40.680 | But I remember coming over to training camp that first year

00:38:44.520 | when-- I don't even think you could play.

00:38:46.240 | All you could do is just do standstill shooting.

00:38:49.160 | And our shooting coach at the time was--

00:38:53.440 | was it Mark Price?

00:38:54.480 | Mark Price.

00:38:55.000 | Yeah, Mark Price.

00:38:55.880 | See, I remember.

00:38:57.320 | And Mark and I were standing there.

00:38:58.860 | And I was like, Mark, what do you think of our group?

00:39:00.160 | And he goes, wow, there's some really good young players.

00:39:02.280 | And that was when he started to ask about Nicola.

00:39:04.480 | And Nicola was just starting to really show the level

00:39:07.360 | that he could dominate.

00:39:09.120 | And I was like, what do you think?

00:39:10.520 | And he goes, I think you've got a really great, great group

00:39:12.360 | here.

00:39:12.440 | He goes, but I'll tell you what.

00:39:13.280 | He goes, the best shooter in this gym can't play right now.

00:39:16.800 | And I was like, you're talking about Michael, right?

00:39:19.280 | And he goes, yep.

00:39:20.200 | He goes, I'm talking about Michael.

00:39:21.660 | He goes, just take your time with him.

00:39:24.320 | Be patient.

00:39:25.120 | But he goes, that guy's the best shooter in this gym.

00:39:28.000 | And I said, well, that's our plan.

00:39:32.280 | And so over the course of that year--

00:39:35.720 | and then I think your first full season was the COVID year,

00:39:38.440 | right?

00:39:39.180 | Yeah, my first full season was the first half of the season.

00:39:43.080 | And then we go to the bubble.

00:39:44.320 | Yeah, my first full season.

00:39:45.400 | So I saw an important step out of you,

00:39:48.440 | which was over the first, I don't know,

00:39:50.880 | six months of the season, I think

00:39:53.640 | you were up and down as any rookie is going to be.

00:39:55.680 | You're learning how to play.

00:39:56.840 | You're learning where you fit in the different roles.

00:39:59.840 | And you're learning how to play with some

00:40:00.920 | of these guys around you.

00:40:02.520 | And then the season stops, like right around this time

00:40:04.720 | four years ago.

00:40:06.560 | COVID hits.

00:40:07.760 | We go into our cocoons.

00:40:09.480 | And then we emerge in the bubble a few months later.

00:40:13.880 | And you went from a rookie to a second-year player

00:40:20.080 | in that little two-month span.

00:40:21.560 | In that gap, yeah.

00:40:22.700 | And so when you came into that bubble,

00:40:24.800 | I saw a different Michael.

00:40:26.200 | I saw a more confident Michael.

00:40:28.680 | I saw one that knew how to fit within our team,

00:40:32.240 | but also went to really use your own skill set to drive us

00:40:36.120 | forward.

00:40:36.840 | And I remember you hitting some big shots in the bubble

00:40:39.400 | and seeing our team really start to believe in each other.

00:40:42.920 | And I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it.

00:40:45.160 | That's crazy.

00:40:45.880 | But then you come out of that.

00:40:48.400 | It's kind of a very short offseason.

00:40:49.960 | We lose Jeremy.

00:40:51.600 | We replace him with Aaron.

00:40:53.120 | And then Jamal gets hurt.

00:40:55.320 | And so I knew there was a special group in there.

00:40:57.800 | And then you have to wait almost two years.

00:41:00.520 | And that required a lot of patience on our end.

00:41:02.920 | And we never even remotely thought

00:41:05.080 | about veering off the path of the roster that we had.

00:41:08.960 | And now that we got everybody healthy,

00:41:12.040 | I could see that you guys last fall,

00:41:13.760 | there was a little bit of a period where you kind of had

00:41:16.640 | to play your way into it again.

00:41:17.960 | Jamal had to play his way into it again,

00:41:19.640 | gain that confidence in your body.

00:41:21.640 | And then by March, I could tell we were locked in

00:41:26.520 | and that we were just ready for the playoffs.

00:41:28.400 | And then it was like, OK, let's be healthy come April

00:41:32.240 | and see where the chips fall.

00:41:33.400 | And I was really proud of the way

00:41:34.740 | that you guys just immediately locked in

00:41:37.800 | to go 16-4 against the NBA's best shot.

00:41:42.040 | That's not something that a lot of people can say.

00:41:45.880 | Well, man, I mean, man to man, I appreciate you guys so much

00:41:50.120 | taking the chance on me.

00:41:51.120 | Appreciate you, man.

00:41:51.920 | I remember I said at draft night I

00:41:53.520 | was going to do whatever I could to be one of the best draft

00:41:56.760 | picks that you guys could ever draft.

00:41:58.880 | And still, I've been through a lot.

00:42:00.920 | But like you saw at Mizzou, giving up and giving

00:42:04.940 | into whatever injuries, that's not part of my DNA.

00:42:07.720 | But I'm so happy to be a nugget, you know what I mean?

00:42:10.680 | People ask me all the time about that whole draft situation.

00:42:15.160 | And I'm like, God does work in mysterious ways

00:42:17.320 | because it's a blessing that somehow I fell to 14

00:42:20.200 | to a team that was already winning.

00:42:22.160 | So I got to take my time and not rush back after the injury.

00:42:25.640 | And now we've just built this program, this championship

00:42:29.000 | level program from really the ground up

00:42:33.280 | with adding small pieces.

00:42:34.440 | And we got it continued rolling with the young guys.

00:42:37.480 | We got now Peyton, CB.

00:42:39.400 | I know Julian's not playing right now,

00:42:40.980 | but Julian, some of the guards we got.

00:42:44.640 | So it's pretty crazy.

00:42:45.680 | So you go through all this stuff, the ups and downs

00:42:50.160 | as an owner, and then you win the championship.

00:42:52.120 | How fulfilling was that?

00:42:53.340 | I know you guys had already won the Rams championship, the Avs

00:42:56.120 | championship, but it probably felt a little bit different

00:42:59.480 | being a basketball player.

00:43:01.000 | Yeah, I mean, I think I'm kidding myself

00:43:02.680 | if I try to say that it didn't.

00:43:06.080 | But I think I'm most proud because while the Rams had

00:43:10.280 | won a championship 20 years ago in St. Louis,

00:43:15.760 | the Avs had won twice before in Denver, but not since 2001.

00:43:22.160 | The Nuggets had never won one.

00:43:23.560 | They'd never even been to the NBA finals.

00:43:25.400 | And so I got goosebumps walking around the arena

00:43:27.520 | just seeing the NBA finals logo for the first time.

00:43:30.880 | But the process of going through it with the Rams, the Avalanche,

00:43:37.000 | and in the middle of the Rams and the Avalanche winning

00:43:39.680 | in 2022, our major league lacrosse team

00:43:43.120 | won a championship as well.

00:43:45.240 | And Arsenal has been knocking on the door of a few things.

00:43:48.300 | We got a good young group.

00:43:49.380 | We grew pretty organically over there as well.

00:43:51.640 | So there's a formula to kind of what we try to do.

00:43:54.760 | But the NBA one was very special for my dad and I,

00:43:58.160 | mainly because it had never been done before.

00:44:00.440 | And to be frank, we had a lot of people telling us

00:44:02.480 | that we couldn't do it.

00:44:04.400 | When I made some changes to the Nuggets coaching staff

00:44:08.040 | and we started to kind of go through our building process,

00:44:11.800 | like I said, progress isn't linear.

00:44:13.320 | And so I would go down, be around the court

00:44:15.480 | during games at times, and I'd have people screaming at me,

00:44:17.840 | what are you doing, you idiot?

00:44:20.040 | We just want to see a competitive team.

00:44:21.920 | And we can't believe your dad trusts you

00:44:25.120 | with all this and everything.

00:44:26.960 | And so I heard it all.

00:44:28.960 | But you stay the course.

00:44:29.920 | You believe in kind of what you're doing.

00:44:31.880 | And so when you finally do reach the pinnacle of it all

00:44:34.720 | and you realize that all those people that were doubting you

00:44:37.200 | are now supporting you, it's a great feeling.

00:44:41.960 | But it was also--

00:44:43.040 | I didn't realize how rewarding I would find it

00:44:45.640 | as I'm walking down the street and someone grabs me

00:44:48.480 | and they're like, man, I've been a Nuggets fan since 1978.

00:44:53.560 | I can die happy now.

00:44:55.160 | And those little moments where you're like, wow,

00:44:57.760 | you didn't realize how much this was going to really touch people.

00:45:00.880 | You get so locked in on trying to figure out a way to do it

00:45:04.080 | that you forget how many people that are along for the ride

00:45:07.800 | and really supporting you along the way.

00:45:09.360 | And I've watched game five 50 times at this point,

00:45:13.880 | where you just start to count down.

00:45:15.680 | And it never gets old, man.

00:45:17.120 | And so the cool thing was, though,

00:45:19.480 | was I knew on Monday afternoon that we wanted on a Monday.

00:45:24.920 | And I knew on Monday afternoon, I was like, if I wake up

00:45:28.680 | tomorrow, I'll either be a champion or we're not,

00:45:31.600 | and I'm still going to be the same person.

00:45:33.800 | And if we lose tonight, we're going to go down to Miami

00:45:36.960 | and try and do it again.

00:45:38.520 | And if we win, I'll wake up a champion,

00:45:41.080 | but nothing's really going to change.

00:45:43.120 | And we'll figure out a way to go try to do it again.

00:45:45.600 | And so the perspective of having those other championships

00:45:48.880 | recently really keeps you humble.

00:45:51.760 | You know you've really accomplished something great,

00:45:53.920 | but at the same time, when you do get that taste of success,

00:45:57.040 | I think as a competitor, we all want more.

00:45:59.520 | And that's the cool thing that I really see about you guys,

00:46:02.120 | is I think that even though you accomplished something

00:46:04.400 | for the first time in all of your careers,

00:46:07.360 | I see a collective focus starting to form here

00:46:11.240 | as we're coming down the stretch.

00:46:12.600 | And I mean, there's a lot of things that go into it.

00:46:15.260 | And at the end of the day, I think

00:46:16.640 | that people need to understand, no matter

00:46:18.380 | how you build these teams and how you

00:46:20.240 | think you may have a chance, you need a little bit of luck

00:46:22.680 | involved.

00:46:23.600 | We need to have our health.

00:46:25.040 | We need to have our group together.

00:46:26.800 | And so you never know what could happen.

00:46:29.040 | But I'm really proud of the group.

00:46:30.520 | I'm really proud of the focus.

00:46:31.780 | And if we're healthy, I think it will be a tough team

00:46:35.240 | to beat, which is always the goal.

00:46:37.440 | Yeah, I think you said two really nuggets of wisdom.

00:46:41.300 | First of all was throughout the whole process of life,

00:46:44.440 | and even as athletes, as competitors,

00:46:48.640 | the joy you put on other people's face.

00:46:50.440 | Something Nicola mentioned as well in the interview

00:46:52.600 | is those are the things that stick with you.

00:46:55.400 | Yeah, the championship is amazing.

00:46:57.880 | But like you said, you wake up tomorrow

00:47:00.200 | and you're still the same person.

00:47:02.360 | But it's those moments along the way.

00:47:05.120 | I go to Taiwan this offseason, and they could not--

00:47:08.040 | it was diehard Nuggets fans in Taiwan

00:47:11.000 | that were talking about the championship.

00:47:12.760 | So I think that's--

00:47:15.160 | You guys put yourselves on the map in a whole new way

00:47:17.480 | with, one, winning the championship.

00:47:19.720 | But I think, two, how you guys all carry yourself.

00:47:22.400 | That's what makes me just as proud as winning.

00:47:24.480 | Because I think you guys, like I said,

00:47:26.860 | we play a brand of basketball that's really fun for people

00:47:29.360 | to watch.

00:47:29.960 | And hopefully, at the youth level,

00:47:32.240 | you have a lot of coaches saying,

00:47:34.120 | you guys should play like them.

00:47:35.440 | Yeah.

00:47:35.940 | You know?

00:47:38.320 | You and your father and your family as a whole

00:47:41.760 | have built something incredible.

00:47:44.840 | A lot of people think being financially stable or wealthy

00:47:49.360 | is the goal of life.

00:47:51.120 | You guys right now could sell your teams.

00:47:53.580 | You could take all the money and live perfectly comfortable

00:47:56.320 | the rest of your life, your kids, your kids' kids.

00:47:59.880 | Why do you continue--

00:48:01.640 | after you reach the success that you have,

00:48:04.040 | why do you continue to grind and work so hard

00:48:07.560 | and fly to London and back and do all these things?

00:48:11.640 | Is it just-- because a lot of people

00:48:13.960 | truly think that happiness in life equals money.

00:48:16.360 | But you guys could just go chill on the beach

00:48:18.460 | and do whatever you want the rest of your life.

00:48:20.420 | Why do you keep going?

00:48:22.580 | I mean, for me individually, I always

00:48:25.980 | want to prove stuff to myself to see if I can do something.

00:48:32.040 | And I actually really enjoy-- even

00:48:34.120 | though I'm kind of an introvert in certain ways

00:48:36.800 | and I'm very guarded in others, I do enjoy people.

00:48:41.360 | And being around the sports world,

00:48:43.800 | I have to pinch myself some of the people that I get to meet,

00:48:47.360 | some of the people I get to interact with.

00:48:50.080 | Because we're from all walks of life all over the world.

00:48:52.520 | You mentioned Arsenal.

00:48:54.400 | I just got back from London last night.

00:48:56.760 | And we advanced in the Champions League on Tuesday.

00:48:59.760 | But the people that I get to meet--

00:49:03.600 | I mean, just with the Nuggets alone.

00:49:05.760 | I mean, we have guys from all over Europe.

00:49:08.860 | When you get to Arsenal, it's even a greater expansion

00:49:11.360 | of people.

00:49:12.120 | And so I really enjoy the different people,

00:49:14.260 | the different walks of life, and being

00:49:15.800 | able to prove to myself that I can work with almost anybody

00:49:19.880 | and try to get the best out of a group.

00:49:22.680 | I think, to your point, I don't know where my IQ might be,

00:49:26.240 | but I think my EQ is fairly high.

00:49:28.400 | And putting people in positions, giving them

00:49:30.840 | the resources to succeed, patting them on the back,

00:49:33.480 | putting my arm around them when they need it,

00:49:35.360 | and then give them a little kick in the butt

00:49:37.200 | when they need it, too.

00:49:38.400 | But our formula is to really hire good people,

00:49:41.000 | provide them with the resources to go do things,

00:49:43.200 | and then draft good people who can

00:49:45.920 | have a chance to be great players,

00:49:47.360 | and try to grow it over time.

00:49:48.640 | And that's what we've done with the Nuggets.

00:49:51.600 | That's what we've done with the Avalanche.

00:49:54.600 | Over at Arsenal, we have a really talented young team

00:49:57.800 | that's fighting for both Premier League title this year,

00:50:00.280 | and hopefully another advancement in the Champions

00:50:02.360 | League in the quarters.

00:50:03.360 | We just drew Bayern Munich today.

00:50:04.680 | That's going to be an interesting one.

00:50:07.480 | But it's really about the people.

00:50:09.360 | And for me, that's what drives me.

00:50:12.480 | But yeah, I mean, I have been financially secure

00:50:14.400 | my whole life.

00:50:15.020 | I understand that most people or a lot of people

00:50:17.180 | aren't in that situation.

00:50:18.900 | And so I never want to take that for granted.

00:50:20.760 | But also, we employ a lot of people.

00:50:24.320 | That's something that I do find very rewarding,

00:50:26.320 | is being able to sit down and talk

00:50:28.360 | to people about their jobs, whether it's over in London,

00:50:30.720 | whether it's in Denver, or whether it's in LA,

00:50:33.920 | at our team in our venue out there.

00:50:36.200 | So yeah, for me, it's about the people

00:50:37.720 | and trying to work together to achieve something special.

00:50:40.200 | And when you do achieve something special, man,

00:50:42.160 | it's a lot of fun for not only the group,

00:50:45.200 | but for the fans as well, which is really unique to really

00:50:48.380 | the sports business.

00:50:49.700 | Yeah.

00:50:50.180 | Now, even just talking to you, I feel

00:50:52.020 | like the way you grew up and just who you are as a person,

00:50:55.500 | and I feel like you really know yourself.

00:50:57.200 | You've probably spent a lot of time getting to know yourself

00:50:59.700 | and what makes you happy.

00:51:01.300 | So one of the questions I like to ask all the people

00:51:04.020 | I interview on this podcast is, what do you

00:51:05.860 | think your purpose is?

00:51:08.180 | Wow.

00:51:10.600 | I think my purpose is--

00:51:13.200 | that's a great question, Michael.

00:51:17.300 | I wish I knew you were going to ask me that one.

00:51:19.880 | I ask it because I still feel like I'm

00:51:22.100 | trying to develop my purpose.

00:51:25.200 | And part of who I like to get on this podcast

00:51:28.800 | is people that I find very intriguing

00:51:30.280 | and I'm very curious about, and people

00:51:33.280 | I look up to in certain ways.

00:51:34.600 | So yeah, I'm trying to figure out.

00:51:36.560 | So it's just a question I like to ask.

00:51:38.640 | You know, I think that--

00:51:40.640 | I'm sure I'd have to go back and re-watch some of your podcasts

00:51:43.460 | because I'd be a very curious answer

00:51:45.540 | from a lot of different people.

00:51:47.340 | For me, I think my purpose--

00:51:49.640 | I'm not married.

00:51:50.820 | I don't have any kids yet.

00:51:52.500 | And so some people would answer family or this.

00:51:56.180 | And so I come from a great family, great parents.

00:51:59.780 | My older sister is incredibly supportive.

00:52:02.000 | And I have a wonderful girlfriend

00:52:03.420 | who supports me as well.

00:52:04.500 | But I think for me, personally, I think my purpose is to--

00:52:10.560 | you know, I think kind of how I answered the previous question

00:52:13.400 | was I really enjoy getting to know people

00:52:16.720 | and trying to get the most out of them.

00:52:19.200 | My college coach, Quinn Snyder, always

00:52:22.560 | thought I would've been a great basketball coach

00:52:24.560 | because I loved the game, but I also

00:52:27.440 | really loved trying to get the most and help my teammates.

00:52:32.040 | And so that kind of plays out in my life

00:52:33.880 | across numerous areas, whether it's

00:52:35.660 | focused in on the team level with the Nuggets, Avs, Rams,

00:52:39.100 | Arsenal, Rapids, or on the corporate level,

00:52:43.160 | we just wonder when a big restructure on our corporate

00:52:45.500 | side in Denver.

00:52:46.240 | And so putting together the team there and kind of delivering

00:52:49.300 | some of the same mantras that we have around our team culture,

00:52:51.920 | try to deliver that on the corporate side as well.

00:52:53.960 | And having been around sports my whole life,

00:52:56.720 | I think I got a pretty decent handle on certain things

00:52:59.100 | at this point.

00:53:00.000 | And so trying to get the most out of people

00:53:02.480 | and then really going to achieve something together.

00:53:04.740 | So building a team and helping those people along,

00:53:10.000 | I think that'd be probably how I would answer it

00:53:13.000 | on an individual level.

00:53:14.160 | Because when I'm by myself and doing things by myself,

00:53:17.200 | I enjoy it.

00:53:18.000 | But I enjoy being around people and being around groups

00:53:20.720 | and working together a lot more.

00:53:22.400 | Yeah.

00:53:22.900 | Yeah.

00:53:23.400 | That's dope, man.

00:53:24.000 | Well, I appreciate you so much for giving us some of your time,

00:53:26.320 | man.

00:53:26.520 | This has been awesome for real.

00:53:27.760 | Absolutely.

00:53:28.400 | Appreciate you, my man.

00:53:29.880 | Serious Mike out.

00:53:30.920 | [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:53:34.280 | (upbeat music)

Josh Kroenke on Building Successful Teams, Realizing How Special Jokic Is, and Drafting MPJ

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