(upbeat music) - Welcome to another episode of Curious Mike. I'm here with Josh Kroenke, fellow Columbia, Missourian. I appreciate you on the podcast, man. - Absolutely, man. - I know you don't do a lot of media, so I appreciate it. - No, man, it's my pleasure to be here, especially like, as you said, with a fellow Columbia, Missourian.

- Yes, sir. - We're a rare breed up here. - We are a rare breed, yeah. I wanna start off a little bit with your childhood because I find it interesting, you know, growing up, your father was obviously already very wealthy. I don't know if it was to the point that it is now, but like you just being around you and how down to earth you are, I find that intriguing just in the way you came up.

So talk a little bit about, you know, growing up, regular things like high school and things like that. Talk about your childhood. - Well, yeah, I mean, and you know, you know, as we affectionately say back home, Como, very well. And I was born and raised in Central Missouri, Columbia to be exact.

And yeah, I mean, I do come from a background where I've been financially secure, very secure my entire life. But, you know, my parents, I think they did an unbelievable job of raising both my older sister and I to understand that, you know, to feel blessed in the position that we're in, but don't let it define you in any way.

We're all humans and we're all kind of going through this experience in our own kind of different versions of how we're experiencing life. And, but being from Columbia, I think is a, it's a college town. There's a lot of really good people in there. And, you know, the sport of basketball really is the thing that really kind of kept me grounded, you know, going through junior high and high school and then playing at Mizzou, you know, you experience people from all walks of life.

And so some of my best friends from a very early age, I understood didn't come from as fortunate of a background as myself, from a two-parent home, from a financially secure home. And so I understand, or I understood at an early age how fortunate I was. And my parents didn't ever let me forget that.

- Yeah. Yeah, I find, I think about it all the time, like even raising kids of my own one day, like people always talk about once you make money, you want to make money for your kids, kids, and all these things. But when you really think about it, I think about like, would I be here today if I had parents who were very stable?

One of the things that pushed me to even be successful is the fact that I had, you know, my family, I have seven siblings, my mom was a stay-at-home mom, you know, I wanted to make it so that they could be okay. So I just find that interesting when people just stay super down to earth, regardless of their circumstances.

- Yeah, and for me, there was also a motivation to, with the basketball part, to kind of forge my own identity. - Right. - You know, being in Columbia, and it is a college town, but it's a small town in certain ways. And so, you know, being around sports, I realized that I could forge my own identity in the shadow of kind of my father, my grandfather, my parents, and all the success that they've had.

And so sports was a big impact on me. - Do you feel like you had to become at an early age, like a very good judge of character, even like just with friends that you would hang around, but you know, when it comes to dating or girls, like, is that something you felt like you had to develop pretty early on?

- Yeah, you know, I don't think I'm the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to certain things, but you know, I think my EQ and reading people, I'm fairly decent at it. You know, I remember being in like fourth grade, and I just moved into a new house.

And I remember overhearing someone in the lunch line saying they wanted to become my friend so they could come see my house, my parents' house. And so when you're that little, it's interesting, 'cause it kind of takes you back, because it's not anything that you've ever really thought about, but it does, you know, put your guard up in certain ways.

And so, you know, I've had to do a lot of personal work on trust and understanding that, you know, not everybody's out to get you. Not everybody's guilty until proven innocent, you know? But when it comes to relationships with other people, and especially relationships with women, I did have to, you know, overcome some certain fears in myself because there are good people in this world, not everybody's out to get you.

And so reading that and understanding that, giving people the benefit of the doubt, but also being slightly guarded, you know, that was definitely something I had to develop over time, but very early on. - Yeah, it's a hurdle, I think, even, you know, that I go through. - Yeah.

- And I've noticed, you know, even like being around you at the Super Bowl, which was amazing, you're still around a lot of the same people that you kind of grew up with, like hearing them talk and talk about you and stuff and how proud they were of you.

And their stories were always like, I'm knowing Josh forever. So I think it's cool that you kind of stay around the same people that you-- - Yeah, you know, we've, and I still got a few buddies that I grew up playing basketball with. Kareem, I think was at, Kareem Rush was at the game.

But yeah, I mean, you know, I think, you know, as life evolves and I have friends that I've just made within the last few years that have become good friends of mine. But I do have a core group of guys and a group of friends from back home. Definitely from Mizzou, a couple guys from Kansas City and guys that I just kind of was grew up around from late teens to early 20s and a lot of formative years in there.

And I think it's important to, you know, stay in touch with people, understand that people grow and they sometimes they grow apart, but you always have a little bit of a bond and check in with people because you never know what people are going through. - 100%. - Yeah.

- And basketball was a big part of your childhood. Talk about, you know, going to Mizzou, were you nice, were you like, were you, you actually got buckets, were you nice? How was that? - Well, I definitely wasn't getting buckets like you, trust me on that one. But yeah, I mean, I was like a top 50, top 75 recruit in high school.

Went to Rockbridge in Columbia and actually my senior year, I hurt my knee. I didn't tear my ACL, but I had my left kneecap with sublux and kind of come out of the alignment. And so I had to have it scoped and I came back way too soon because I really wanted to play as my senior year.

And so, but I could tell that I wasn't right. And so after the season was over, I took a little time and thought about it. And I did, I did decided to do a fifth year and went to prep school. - Okay. - I was, I didn't turn 18 until right when I graduated.

So I was kind of a little bit young for my grade, even though it was still the correct, correct position for me to be in. And so I did a post-grad year in New Hampshire where I got stronger, got my knee healthy again and really got my, my bounce back.

And then came back to play in Mizzou in the fall of '99. And that was when there was a change in coaching. And we went, Quinn Snyder was hired. And so yeah, Quinn, he was, and he's still coaching and having a great career coaching in the NBA today. And he, I learned so much from being around him and around the program.

We had some, we had a little bit of success and I started the first half of my junior and senior years, but there was always, you know, more talented guys behind me. - Who was on that team? I'm trying to think. - My junior year, excuse me, my red shirt sophomore year, we made the Elite Eight.

We lost to Oklahoma. That was as far as we made in the tournament. I thought we were going to beat them, but they had, they had a really good team, Hollis Price. And then when I'm on our squad, that was Kareem Rush, Clarence Gilbert, Arthur Johnson, Ricky Paulding. And then my later years, my junior year, I started half the year and then got beat out rightfully so by a guy named Jimmy McKinney from St.

Louis, great player. And then my senior year, we had another young two guard named Thomas Gardner, played in the pros for a year or two. But by the end of my senior year, I could, my knees were really hurting. I had another surgery on my right knee. And so I was just kind of, I was in a state of flux where I loved the game, but, you know, being so committed at the collegiate level, I didn't have the opportunity to really do a lot in the summer times, like from a professional standpoint and thinking about the rest of life.

And so I had a couple offers to play in Europe, but I passed them up and got into the real world, so to speak. And it's been fun. I did an internship right out of school with the NBA league office. And that was eye opening on a lot of levels because it shows you how the league operates and how, you know, I mean, how big of a business it really is.

You know, when you're at the league level, you're not dealing at the team level. It's all business all the time. It was also very humbling because I was in the player programs department and under the, Chris Achin, who I'm sure you know as well. She was at the league at the time.

Chris is a wonderful, wonderful person. And she taught me a lot while I was there. And she was, we, our group was in charge of the rookie transition program. - Okay, yeah. - And so. - Yeah, out in New York, right? - Yep, yep. And so the rookie transition program kind of is, you know, for those that might not be familiar with it, is a, you know, kind of a crash course in how to be an adult.

That's just, you know, for better or worse. And I went from competing against all those guys about three months prior. - Yeah. - And then now I was the one making copies and making sure everybody was on time. And I would see these guys and have to say hello.

And they knew who I was 'cause we competed against each other, but I was completely on the other side of it. - Yeah. - And so that was, it was very humbling right away. But you could see, you know, the growth that really took place in myself over those few years in New York.

I did the internship for about six months. Then I was unemployed for two months in New York, which was probably the most fun two months of my life. (both laughing) - Unemployed. - Yeah. (both laughing) But then after that, I worked for an investment bank called Lehman Brothers. They're no longer a firm anymore.

They went under during the crash of late 2007, '08, '09. And it was a great experience. I learned how to, you know, look at certain deals from a financial perspective. Really taught me how to value, or the backbone of kind of our family business outside of sports is real estate, commercial real estate.

And so I was a commercial real estate underwriter in their finance group for a few years. And I learned so much, but I think as much as it's important to learn what you love to do, it's also important what you love not to do. And so I knew that I really wanted to be more involved.

If I was ever gonna be involved in sports, be more involved at the team level. Thought I would find that much more rewarding. And from a family business overall perspective, I really learned how to look at a deal from, a real estate deal from the other side of it, from the financial banking side, as opposed to the development side.

And I think that's helped me to this day. Helped me understand kind of things that we're doing across our venues. You know, when you're trying to redevelop something in or around our venues, our arenas with our teams, and then our shopping centers that we have around the country as well.

So it was a great experience. I moved to Denver in 2007. Started watching tape with the Nuggets coaches and never looked back. - Real quick. Did you hear what happened to me at the rookie transition camp in New York? Was this the one where you posted Adam Silver's number?

(laughing) So, I mean, I didn't know that you knew what rookie transition even was, man. We're sitting there like, you know, in the classroom, learning about something. And they have this slide show or whatever. And I just take a picture of the room on Snapchat or whatever. But like, his number is posted on the screen.

- On the screen. (laughing) - And like, I didn't even realize I posted it, but I look on my Snapchat 10 minutes later, and my sister replied to it and was like, you know you just put Adam Silver's number out there. So I look at the post and it already had like a thousand screenshots.

(laughing) And then like, literally like 10 minutes later, they put it out on, they put it on the screen in the classroom. And they were like, basically, I thought I was gonna get kicked out the league. - Oh wow. - It was like a big deal. And like, I ended up having to get up on stage and apologize in front of everybody.

They were like, the way they worded it though, they were like, yes, someone in this room leaked Adam Silver's number. They're gonna come up here and apologize. So everyone around the class is looking around and I have to stand up, get up on the stage, and apologize. - Did they tell you in advance they were gonna have you do it?

- Like, they brought me in the back room with like Adam Silver's like, and they were like, what were you doing? I was like, it was an honest accident, I'm sorry. I can get up on stage and apologize if you guys want to. They were like, yeah, we're gonna have you do that.

So it was like a whole situation, but that's funny that you were out in New York for a few years. - It was good, it was a good time. And I did see that, but. - It was crazy. But yeah, so you go through college, you go through that internship and everything like that, and then you realize you want to be a part of the business world.

When did you and your father and your family in general decide you wanted to start owning teams? - For my father, it goes back to kind of a dream that he's had for a very long time. I think that, and he's a huge sports fan in general, I think my family, we love sports.

I was always taught to kind of, both by my dad and my mom, use sports as a metaphor for life. There's teamwork, sacrifice, understanding how you can help others. And so for me, I guess, I'm rambling a little bit, what was your original question? 'Cause I was gonna go down one way, I don't wanna make sure I answered the question.

- No, I mean, yeah, we're just talking a little bit more, just like how did you get into that? - Yeah, so like, it was my dad's dream kind of way back when and I guess I would say that as a real estate developer, he was always looking for a potential deal.

And the first deal that ever kind of came around was when the NFL was expanding in 1993, '94 maybe, '92. And that was, the NFL was expanding and they were gonna award two new teams to two cities. And so St. Louis wanted to be on the ticket and my dad partnered with some guys locally, they reached out to him and unfortunately, it didn't result in an expansion franchise.

But when that didn't work out, he helped position another group of people to come to St. Louis and that resulted in the Rams moving. And then from there, it became a really, just a minority investment in an NFL team that morphed into, he was looking around for, like I said, as a real estate developer, potentially a deal that involved a stadium venue and teams as well.

And he looked around, I think there was a few opportunities and then all of a sudden the Denver deal presented itself. And so when you have a real estate developer that can make sense of a real estate deal that involves two sports teams, that was kind of how we, what I say is, we were a real estate family that kind of fell into sports due to our love with it, because that was the Avalanche Nuggets and at the time was called Pepsi Center, which is now Ball Arena.

- Right. - And then that has morphed into what we have now, which is SoFi Stadium and the LA Rams. We have Ball Arena, the teams in Avalanche Nuggets and also the Colorado Mammoth. We have Dick's Sporting Goods Park, which is where Colorado Rapids play in Denver. And then the other one, which is the really big one, is over in London.

We have Arsenal Football Club. - Got you. - Yeah. - As a team owner and it's been a long time coming and there's been a lot of recent success of your teams, championships with us, the Avs, the Rams, which has to make you guys, definitely in the most recent years, some of the most successful team owners in the history, but during that long process of developing the teams, drafting players, was there ever thought of letting some of these things go or you guys have been committed from the jump with all these teams?

- We've been pretty committed. We're long-term holders in really everything that we do. My father's philosophy, and I know that's one I'll carry forward with me as well, is whenever you invest in something, if you're looking to make a short buck on it or try to figure out a way to make an exit somewhere, that's usually not our strategy.

I know there's some brilliant people out there that can make sense of deals like that, but we're always, we wanna invest in something that makes sense for us over the long term. And so, when he did the Denver deal in 2000, I was still in school, I was at Mizzou.

I remember him telling me about it and me just being incredibly excited. But then they set out and they built kind of the first version of the Nuggets underneath kind of our family. And that resulted in some really amazing teams. They hadn't made the playoffs in I don't know how long, but they kind of stripped the roster down over the first year, drafted Carmelo Anthony in the summer of 2003, and then they started signing free agents.

And by the spring of 2004, they were in the playoffs, I think for nine or 10 straight years. And that was a level of success that the Nuggets hadn't quite had. And then, when my dad and I kind of really sat down to talk about the future of how we could build the Nuggets back, I knew that, I had some philosophy.

I'd been around the team for probably four or five years at that point in time. And I'd watched a lot of basketball and kind of tried to devise some sort of strategy. I was like, it's never been done in Denver. We've never won the whole thing. How can we actually do this?

And for me, the only advantage that we could really create was to kind of elongate our timeline. And so, draft really good players that are also really good people, surround them with really good coaching, and try to grow something organically over time. And it's never gonna be perfect. Progress is never linear, as you know.

I mean, our squad was up and down those first few years. You guys were all kind of learning different things, the different roles. And now, all of a sudden, you see it start to gel. And then, you guys get hit with injuries. And so, it required a certain amount of patience, but also knowing that, at the end of the day, we had really good people.

And that's why we're really proud of you guys as players. But I think that the group of people that we have down there is really unique around the NBA and how you guys all play for each other. Our culture has kind of evolved to a place where I couldn't be prouder of it.

And then, the icing on the cake was to finally win the championship last year. But it all started kind of watching-- we had a 57-win team in 2012, 2013. And we won 57 games and didn't have an All-Star. And that's pretty hard to do in the NBA. But I would watch that team.

And I remember watching us down in Miami. And we played the Heat toe-to-toe for about 46 minutes. And then, they could go to a level and close those games out that we just didn't quite have. And so, I was like, OK, if we're going to take this step backwards, and we're going to finally come back to the playoffs one day, we're going to come back with a team that's built to be sustainable and continually grow our ceiling organically.

And that's what you guys did, man. You guys all worked your butts off. You guys all figured out how to come together. I remember I wasn't in the bubble, but watching you guys kind of-- I think in the bubble, there was a new level of confidence that was reached.

I saw you stepping up in new ways, Yoke and Jamal doing their thing. And it really kind of was a-- I was watching on television going, this group can really do something special. Yeah. Yeah. And so, that was the first time where I really was like, OK, now how can we start to go for this?

And then, the patients that I talked about, we come out of the bubble, we kind of hit the ground running. But we had lost Jeremy in free agency. And it took a little while for us to figure out how we wanted to try to fill that void. And then, when Aaron came along, we jumped at that opportunity to get AG in the squad.

And then, I think we ran off, I don't know what we were those 10 games after we traded for Aaron, but we were like 9 and 1 or something like that. It was before Jamal got hurt. And it was like, I don't think we lost a game. Yeah, we were something like that.

We were 8 and 2, 9 and 1. But we were beating good teams and beating them pretty handily. And then, Jamal went down. And you can't-- and I think that while we knew it internally at the time, maybe the rest of the league didn't, we couldn't replace Jamal with anybody.

There was a level of skill and a level of chemistry that we knew we just had to sit tight. And then, the following fall, I mean, you had to go through another adventure again. And I mean, it's amazing to think how far the group has come and how far certain individuals have come, man.

And I'm sure you look back on things at different times. And it's amazing to think how far we've come and how far we can still go. Yeah. No, that's crazy. Yeah, I saw some post or whatever. It was talking about the individual stories of all the guys on our team and how it really was grown organically.

When did you realize we had something special with Nicola? Did you know that early on? I know Nerkich was here at the time. Yeah. Yeah, that was-- it's a funny story about Nicola. And if anybody tells you they knew, they are lying through their teeth. I didn't know. The first year I got drafted, I went to training camp.

And I had no idea. Like, just because he treats a game different than practice. So I'm seeing Mason Plumlee and Nicola go at it. I'm like, wait, why does Nicola start over Mason? Like, I remember that was my thought process. So yeah, yeah, tell me that story. How did you-- So yeah, Yoke is a funny story.

I remember sitting with our former president of basketball ops and GM at the time, Tim Connolly and Arturis Karnashovas. One of them now runs the Timberwolves. One of them now runs the Chicago Bulls. But they were in our front office at the time. And they're like, hey, there's this guy that you should see on tape because we want him to keep his name in the draft.

But he wants to stay over in Europe for one more year. And we're in a phase at the time where we wanted as many young players as we could get and to try to see what we could grow. And so I was actually like, why does he want to stay over in Europe one more year?

And both Tim and Arturis were like, it's best for his development. And we think that there's a skill level there that could be interesting. But I remember them showing me on tape. And Nicola's wearing like this-- their colors were like pink and blue. And Nicola couldn't jump over a phone book.

But he'd catch these balls. And he'd throw these passes. And you're like, I don't know how that's going to translate. But that player's basketball IQ is obviously off the charts. And so we drafted him. He stayed over for one more year. And then he came over in the summer of 2015.

And my dad actually has really good stories about being down in the weight room early in the morning that summer. And Nicola would be in there every morning with his two brothers. And they'd be beating on him before the coaches would even come in. And he'd be in there.

But over time, I think Nicola cleaned up his diet. He understood what it took to be a professional. And you referenced Yusef Nerkic, who was another really good young player that we had on our roster at the time. And we couldn't quite tell what to do with both of them.

Because Yusef, I think, had made second team all-rookie. And Nicola was coming over. And so we had a very established center. But we knew that they both had really good hands, really good skills. And the thing that was unfortunate is the league was trending-- that was when the Warriors were on their ascension.

And the league was trending to this small ball, shooting everywhere. And even more extreme than it is now, almost. It was like everyone wanted to try to be the Warriors almost overnight. And you couldn't play Nicola and Yusef together. You had two seven-footers that were incredibly skilled and very unselfish guys.

But trying to play them together, while it did present its advantages at certain points, it was tough for them to cover whenever you got almost four guards out there moving around in sync. And it's a tough defensive cover. So we had to really put our heads together on what we wanted to do.

And fortunately, by the time-- after Nicola's first season, I think he made first team all-rookie. And then we were halfway into the second year. And we were really realizing that we couldn't-- we had to pick-- we had to choose. Because they're both starting-level centers. And I think Yusef's contract was coming up in about a year.

And so we were having our analytics group run all the different numbers of how to compare the two and what to look for. And all of a sudden, this comparison comes through. And fortunately, we had enough data at the time to be able to really put together per 36 minutes and compare different things.

And so this comparison comes through. And it's player A and player B. And it was during their second season. And the only difference of the two is that player A is two years older than player B at the time of their second year in the NBA. Player A just entered the league later.

And you could clearly see that player B's numbers were better in really every category. And so I was like, OK. I was like, I'm going to guess that player B is Nicola. And they're like, yep, you're right. Player B is Nicola. And I'm like, all right. Well, then who are we talking about with player A?

Is this some sort of comparison with Nurk? Or is this some sort of comparison with someone else in the league? And they're like, player A is Larry Bird. And I was like, oh. Like, you looked at the per 36? Yeah. Wow. And so that was when I think all of us kind of looked at each other.

Because sometimes when you talk to a basketball purist, even, to your point, Nicola, his skill set and the way that he plays, the eye test, he doesn't jump out at you right away. But when you watch it over time and you understand what he's doing and how he's affecting a game, it really jumps out at you.

And so that was when-- and that was in-- that was like the first week of December. And I think we were on like a four or five game skit at the time. And then Tim and I wound up on the phone. I was like, Tim, I'm never going to tell anyone who to play, any coach what to do.

But if we're going to pick one, tell them to put Nicola in. And we got to roll with it. And then that was the famous-- the next night or the night after was-- the date was that December something when-- that was when Yoke went into the starting lineup and never came out.

Never looked back. And it's crazy, because-- It was in Dallas, I think, yeah. Yeah, I have unlimited Nicola stories, too. You talk about the cleaning up the diet and stuff. My first couple years, I mean, he cared about basketball. But he would go home to Serbia in the summer and come back out of shape.

I've seen him progress every year. Even from MVP year to MVP year, he's somehow progressing. So you guys obviously made the right choice, man. There's a lot of talk about his number, number 15, and him and Carmelo Anthony. I don't even know the whole story of what came out.

But yeah, talk a little bit about your thoughts on that whole situation. Yeah, that's a funny one. I saw Melo was on something fairly recently. And my first-- it's interesting to think back, because my first meeting when I was put in charge of the Nuggets in the summer of 2010 was to fly to Baltimore and sit in a hotel room where it was he, his agent, and one other guy that worked with him.

And he asked to be traded. And they gave us two teams. And I put that in my back pocket, went back to Denver. I was kind of-- our front office was in flux at the time. And then I wound up hiring a guy named Masai Ujiri, now runs the Toronto Raptors.

And then he and I and another person named Pete D'Alessandro worked on that trade for about six months. And so we got through the trade. And you don't really think about much. We had Allen Iverson for a number of years. And Ty Lawson wore number three. And so it's not anything that really ever crossed our mind.

And so I was very surprised to hear Carmelo say that the other day, because it wasn't something that ever crossed my mind. I think Nicola has worn number 15 his entire career, even when he was over in Europe. And so it wasn't something that really crossed our mind. And to have Nicola, I think, ascend to the level that he's at, maybe that might get under somebody's skin, I guess, perhaps.

But I don't know. I think Nicola's always worn 15. It was never anything that we ever thought about. And I'm just happy that Nicola's on our team. What specifically was Melo upset about? Was it that someone else got to wear his number? His number didn't get retired? I'm not 100% sure.

I think Melo, he had an unbelievable career with us. He really put the Nuggets back on the map in a really positive way. I think that there was-- it's interesting when a player wants to be traded from a team. And that creates certain feelings. It took a while for our fan base in Denver to get over that as well.

It was an interesting scenario, because that whole saga really started the summer before, the summer of 2010. That was when LeBron had left Miami-- or excuse me, left Cleveland to go to Miami. And so player empowerment and movement was really just starting to reach its peak. And I think that's great.

I think you guys have one shot at your careers. We're kind of custodians of that career. We obviously have our own goals in trying to build our teams. But I always respect if somebody wants to go do something else. But for the city of Denver, I think they took it very personally.

And that took a little time for the city to get over. And I'm sure Melo didn't like being booed for the first few times he came back, because he did. He worked his butt off for the city. And we had a great run in there. We made the Western Conference Finals in 2009.

That was the only time we made it out of the first round. But I think over time, hopefully, the feelings dissipate. I think if he was to come back to Denver, I think he'd probably get a different reception these days. But from a personal level, there was never any animosity or anything on our thinking about Nicola's number, because it was just the number that he wanted to wear and the number that he's worn forever.

I think that it's been interesting to see his ascension to where he is. But for anyone to think that we gave a second round pick number 15, and knowing that it would someday turn into this, I think that's a pretty wild statement. Multiple times. That's funny, man. Well, you guys have done an incredible job.

I want to talk a little bit about your guys' thought process with me coming into the league. Obviously, you were both from Columbia, so you had known about me, things like that. But I've been through a lot. The Clippers doctor spread the report throughout the league that they didn't know.

They weren't sure if I'd be able to play basketball, considering my injuries. And a lot of teams were scared away by that. I remember the first time I got on the phone with the Nuggets was with Tim Conley on the day of the draft, because my agent wanted to create a floor.

Like, OK, if he drops it here, this team will take him. So I had no idea going into the draft what was going to happen. What were those conversations like behind doors about me? Well, my Michael Porter Jr. story first starts-- I think you were in seventh or eighth grade.

A friend of mine sent me this link of some unknown skinny kid going up for a dunk. And I was like, wow. I was like, this kid's supposedly the best eighth grader in the country. And I was like, wow. I was like, I've never seen an eighth grader put-- like, look at the rim, almost, like you were.

And then I was like, wait a minute. I'm like, that's Jeff City's gym. That's Jefferson City. I'm like, that's-- I know that gym. We're my high school rivals. And so I did a quick search to try to find out more of what I was watching. And I was quickly told that Central Missouri had one of the best players in the country, because I was like, that section of the country doesn't produce talent like you.

And so I was very aware of who you were from an early age. And I followed your career because I was kind of proud that we had someone of your caliber coming out of that section of the state. And so I followed your career. And then I was going to watch your first game at Mizzou.

And then I heard about what had happened. And I think you were going through warm-ups, right? There was a couple of days leading up to it where you had some tightness, right? Yeah, the injury. Yeah, it happened a few days prior. But that was my first time experiencing anything strange, so I thought it would just dissipate.

And it got worse. And the first game comes around. Yeah, and you were going through warm-ups. And then I think you had to play, what, the first 10 seconds before they-- Yeah. It was so close to game time. They'd already turned in the lineup, right? It was so close to game time.

They had already put the lineup up. So I go to my dad. And I'm like, dad, I don't think I can play. Like, I don't know what's going on, but I can't jump right. Like, I can't produce force like I want to. And then we went to the coaches.

And they were like, OK, you just have to start the game. Because big national TV game, number one player in the country going to the University of Missouri, which never happens. And then so, yeah, I had to play the first 10 seconds. It came out. Yep. And then I followed what was going on.

And I knew you came. You were really rushing to get back because you wanted to help your team. And that told me a lot about your character. If you were already thinking about the pros, which is a natural thing, I think that there's probably part of you that wants to think ultra long-term in that scenario.

And I'm sure there was people around you. But it also told me that there was a person inside of you, inside of that player, that was really competitive, that wanted to get out there. And you wanted to help your teammates. And so as I watched that spring kind of evolve, and I heard about your draft workouts, leading into that week, I thought your floor in the draft, I think Chicago had seven.

And seven or eight. But I also knew that when you were healthy, you were probably the best, if not one of the top two or three players in that draft. And we had just missed the playoffs by one game that year. And we were thinking that once we made it back to the playoffs, we knew we weren't going backwards.

We had a good young team. And we just had a few things that we needed, we thought, to really put us in a new level. And so the day of the draft, I remember coming over and Tim had called me the night before the draft. And he goes, hey, I'm just going to put something on your radar.

I was like, what's up? Because by missing the playoffs by one game, we picked 14 in the lottery. And so Tim called me. He's like, hey, I want to put something on your radar. And I'm like, what's up? And he goes, I heard something from a buddy of mine that Chicago might pass.

And I'm like, I thought you told me earlier today that that was Michael's floor. And he goes, I don't know. He goes, I don't know what happened. I'm still trying to gather the information. I'll talk to you about it in the morning. And I said, OK. And so I came in the day of the draft.

And Tim Arturas and I sit down. And they said that you may have had a spasm or something, like at a workout, and it might have scared a few teams. And I was like, really? I was like, this is just-- can we get more data on it? Is there any kind of-- and they're like, we're still trying to piece it together.

But he could fall. And I was like, what do you mean he could fall? And I was like, guys, I'm like, that skill set does not grow on trees. I was like, what do you mean he could fall? And they're like, well, teams could get scared of the back.

And I said, OK. And so then I rang my dad. And he came down that afternoon. And then the four of us, Arturas, Tim, myself, my dad, and we pulled Coach Malone in as well. And we said, look, if he's there, we're going to take him. And we got all our doctors in.

And it was a really great group experience, because we all had to put our heads together from our own perspective. Tim and Arturas knew that they believed in your skill set and your talent. And then you had Coach Malone, who was understanding that this is something that was going to play out over multiple years, whereas a lot of coaches-- and this is their job.

Coaches have one responsibility. That's win the next game. And so you have to put-- and then our perspective is even further. It's how can we create the best talent over time? And so when your name was still there, it was a no-brainer for us. It might sound funny to some people, but I was really worried that the-- you referenced a team that had two picks ahead of us.

And I thought somebody might take a chance. Somebody's got to take a chance. Yeah. I think they may have, if it wasn't for their doctor that was doing the main analysis on me that day. And so our decision in the room that day, when we all kind of walked out after discussing the different concerns and thoughts from all of our own perspectives, was we'll never have a chance to draft another player like you, especially at that point in time with the group of players that we had, the skill set that you brought.

And you could raise our ceiling immensely. But we knew it wasn't going to be right away. And so we had to-- once we drafted you, we got you in. We let our doctors take a look at you. We made sure that you felt like one of the family. And we knew that there was going to be a long journey ahead.

And I think you may have known. But looking back, you maybe didn't even realize what you were going to have to go through. And so you had another surgery. We sat you out that whole first year. We tried to make you feel like you were part of the group.

Hopefully, you did, even though you weren't getting to play. But I remember coming over to training camp that first year when-- I don't even think you could play. All you could do is just do standstill shooting. And our shooting coach at the time was-- was it Mark Price? Mark Price.

Yeah, Mark Price. See, I remember. And Mark and I were standing there. And I was like, Mark, what do you think of our group? And he goes, wow, there's some really good young players. And that was when he started to ask about Nicola. And Nicola was just starting to really show the level that he could dominate.

And I was like, what do you think? And he goes, I think you've got a really great, great group here. He goes, but I'll tell you what. He goes, the best shooter in this gym can't play right now. And I was like, you're talking about Michael, right? And he goes, yep.

He goes, I'm talking about Michael. He goes, just take your time with him. Be patient. But he goes, that guy's the best shooter in this gym. And I said, well, that's our plan. And so over the course of that year-- and then I think your first full season was the COVID year, right?

Yeah, my first full season was the first half of the season. And then we go to the bubble. Yeah, my first full season. So I saw an important step out of you, which was over the first, I don't know, six months of the season, I think you were up and down as any rookie is going to be.

You're learning how to play. You're learning where you fit in the different roles. And you're learning how to play with some of these guys around you. And then the season stops, like right around this time four years ago. COVID hits. We go into our cocoons. And then we emerge in the bubble a few months later.

And you went from a rookie to a second-year player in that little two-month span. In that gap, yeah. And so when you came into that bubble, I saw a different Michael. I saw a more confident Michael. I saw one that knew how to fit within our team, but also went to really use your own skill set to drive us forward.

And I remember you hitting some big shots in the bubble and seeing our team really start to believe in each other. And I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it. That's crazy. But then you come out of that. It's kind of a very short offseason. We lose Jeremy. We replace him with Aaron.

And then Jamal gets hurt. And so I knew there was a special group in there. And then you have to wait almost two years. And that required a lot of patience on our end. And we never even remotely thought about veering off the path of the roster that we had.

And now that we got everybody healthy, I could see that you guys last fall, there was a little bit of a period where you kind of had to play your way into it again. Jamal had to play his way into it again, gain that confidence in your body. And then by March, I could tell we were locked in and that we were just ready for the playoffs.

And then it was like, OK, let's be healthy come April and see where the chips fall. And I was really proud of the way that you guys just immediately locked in to go 16-4 against the NBA's best shot. That's not something that a lot of people can say. Well, man, I mean, man to man, I appreciate you guys so much taking the chance on me.

Appreciate you, man. I remember I said at draft night I was going to do whatever I could to be one of the best draft picks that you guys could ever draft. And still, I've been through a lot. But like you saw at Mizzou, giving up and giving into whatever injuries, that's not part of my DNA.

But I'm so happy to be a nugget, you know what I mean? People ask me all the time about that whole draft situation. And I'm like, God does work in mysterious ways because it's a blessing that somehow I fell to 14 to a team that was already winning. So I got to take my time and not rush back after the injury.

And now we've just built this program, this championship level program from really the ground up with adding small pieces. And we got it continued rolling with the young guys. We got now Peyton, CB. I know Julian's not playing right now, but Julian, some of the guards we got. So it's pretty crazy.

So you go through all this stuff, the ups and downs as an owner, and then you win the championship. How fulfilling was that? I know you guys had already won the Rams championship, the Avs championship, but it probably felt a little bit different being a basketball player. Yeah, I mean, I think I'm kidding myself if I try to say that it didn't.

But I think I'm most proud because while the Rams had won a championship 20 years ago in St. Louis, the Avs had won twice before in Denver, but not since 2001. The Nuggets had never won one. They'd never even been to the NBA finals. And so I got goosebumps walking around the arena just seeing the NBA finals logo for the first time.

But the process of going through it with the Rams, the Avalanche, and in the middle of the Rams and the Avalanche winning in 2022, our major league lacrosse team won a championship as well. And Arsenal has been knocking on the door of a few things. We got a good young group.

We grew pretty organically over there as well. So there's a formula to kind of what we try to do. But the NBA one was very special for my dad and I, mainly because it had never been done before. And to be frank, we had a lot of people telling us that we couldn't do it.

When I made some changes to the Nuggets coaching staff and we started to kind of go through our building process, like I said, progress isn't linear. And so I would go down, be around the court during games at times, and I'd have people screaming at me, what are you doing, you idiot?

We just want to see a competitive team. And we can't believe your dad trusts you with all this and everything. And so I heard it all. But you stay the course. You believe in kind of what you're doing. And so when you finally do reach the pinnacle of it all and you realize that all those people that were doubting you are now supporting you, it's a great feeling.

But it was also-- I didn't realize how rewarding I would find it as I'm walking down the street and someone grabs me and they're like, man, I've been a Nuggets fan since 1978. I can die happy now. And those little moments where you're like, wow, you didn't realize how much this was going to really touch people.

You get so locked in on trying to figure out a way to do it that you forget how many people that are along for the ride and really supporting you along the way. And I've watched game five 50 times at this point, where you just start to count down.

And it never gets old, man. And so the cool thing was, though, was I knew on Monday afternoon that we wanted on a Monday. And I knew on Monday afternoon, I was like, if I wake up tomorrow, I'll either be a champion or we're not, and I'm still going to be the same person.

And if we lose tonight, we're going to go down to Miami and try and do it again. And if we win, I'll wake up a champion, but nothing's really going to change. And we'll figure out a way to go try to do it again. And so the perspective of having those other championships recently really keeps you humble.

You know you've really accomplished something great, but at the same time, when you do get that taste of success, I think as a competitor, we all want more. And that's the cool thing that I really see about you guys, is I think that even though you accomplished something for the first time in all of your careers, I see a collective focus starting to form here as we're coming down the stretch.

And I mean, there's a lot of things that go into it. And at the end of the day, I think that people need to understand, no matter how you build these teams and how you think you may have a chance, you need a little bit of luck involved. We need to have our health.

We need to have our group together. And so you never know what could happen. But I'm really proud of the group. I'm really proud of the focus. And if we're healthy, I think it will be a tough team to beat, which is always the goal. Yeah, I think you said two really nuggets of wisdom.

First of all was throughout the whole process of life, and even as athletes, as competitors, the joy you put on other people's face. Something Nicola mentioned as well in the interview is those are the things that stick with you. Yeah, the championship is amazing. But like you said, you wake up tomorrow and you're still the same person.

But it's those moments along the way. I go to Taiwan this offseason, and they could not-- it was diehard Nuggets fans in Taiwan that were talking about the championship. So I think that's-- You guys put yourselves on the map in a whole new way with, one, winning the championship.

But I think, two, how you guys all carry yourself. That's what makes me just as proud as winning. Because I think you guys, like I said, we play a brand of basketball that's really fun for people to watch. And hopefully, at the youth level, you have a lot of coaches saying, you guys should play like them.

Yeah. You know? You and your father and your family as a whole have built something incredible. A lot of people think being financially stable or wealthy is the goal of life. You guys right now could sell your teams. You could take all the money and live perfectly comfortable the rest of your life, your kids, your kids' kids.

Why do you continue-- after you reach the success that you have, why do you continue to grind and work so hard and fly to London and back and do all these things? Is it just-- because a lot of people truly think that happiness in life equals money. But you guys could just go chill on the beach and do whatever you want the rest of your life.

Why do you keep going? I mean, for me individually, I always want to prove stuff to myself to see if I can do something. And I actually really enjoy-- even though I'm kind of an introvert in certain ways and I'm very guarded in others, I do enjoy people. And being around the sports world, I have to pinch myself some of the people that I get to meet, some of the people I get to interact with.

Because we're from all walks of life all over the world. You mentioned Arsenal. I just got back from London last night. And we advanced in the Champions League on Tuesday. But the people that I get to meet-- I mean, just with the Nuggets alone. I mean, we have guys from all over Europe.

When you get to Arsenal, it's even a greater expansion of people. And so I really enjoy the different people, the different walks of life, and being able to prove to myself that I can work with almost anybody and try to get the best out of a group. I think, to your point, I don't know where my IQ might be, but I think my EQ is fairly high.

And putting people in positions, giving them the resources to succeed, patting them on the back, putting my arm around them when they need it, and then give them a little kick in the butt when they need it, too. But our formula is to really hire good people, provide them with the resources to go do things, and then draft good people who can have a chance to be great players, and try to grow it over time.

And that's what we've done with the Nuggets. That's what we've done with the Avalanche. Over at Arsenal, we have a really talented young team that's fighting for both Premier League title this year, and hopefully another advancement in the Champions League in the quarters. We just drew Bayern Munich today.

That's going to be an interesting one. But it's really about the people. And for me, that's what drives me. But yeah, I mean, I have been financially secure my whole life. I understand that most people or a lot of people aren't in that situation. And so I never want to take that for granted.

But also, we employ a lot of people. That's something that I do find very rewarding, is being able to sit down and talk to people about their jobs, whether it's over in London, whether it's in Denver, or whether it's in LA, at our team in our venue out there.

So yeah, for me, it's about the people and trying to work together to achieve something special. And when you do achieve something special, man, it's a lot of fun for not only the group, but for the fans as well, which is really unique to really the sports business. Yeah.

Now, even just talking to you, I feel like the way you grew up and just who you are as a person, and I feel like you really know yourself. You've probably spent a lot of time getting to know yourself and what makes you happy. So one of the questions I like to ask all the people I interview on this podcast is, what do you think your purpose is?

Wow. I think my purpose is-- that's a great question, Michael. I wish I knew you were going to ask me that one. I ask it because I still feel like I'm trying to develop my purpose. And part of who I like to get on this podcast is people that I find very intriguing and I'm very curious about, and people I look up to in certain ways.

So yeah, I'm trying to figure out. So it's just a question I like to ask. You know, I think that-- I'm sure I'd have to go back and re-watch some of your podcasts because I'd be a very curious answer from a lot of different people. For me, I think my purpose-- I'm not married.

I don't have any kids yet. And so some people would answer family or this. And so I come from a great family, great parents. My older sister is incredibly supportive. And I have a wonderful girlfriend who supports me as well. But I think for me, personally, I think my purpose is to-- you know, I think kind of how I answered the previous question was I really enjoy getting to know people and trying to get the most out of them.

My college coach, Quinn Snyder, always thought I would've been a great basketball coach because I loved the game, but I also really loved trying to get the most and help my teammates. And so that kind of plays out in my life across numerous areas, whether it's focused in on the team level with the Nuggets, Avs, Rams, Arsenal, Rapids, or on the corporate level, we just wonder when a big restructure on our corporate side in Denver.

And so putting together the team there and kind of delivering some of the same mantras that we have around our team culture, try to deliver that on the corporate side as well. And having been around sports my whole life, I think I got a pretty decent handle on certain things at this point.

And so trying to get the most out of people and then really going to achieve something together. So building a team and helping those people along, I think that'd be probably how I would answer it on an individual level. Because when I'm by myself and doing things by myself, I enjoy it.

But I enjoy being around people and being around groups and working together a lot more. Yeah. Yeah. That's dope, man. Well, I appreciate you so much for giving us some of your time, man. This has been awesome for real. Absolutely. Appreciate you, my man. Serious Mike out. (upbeat music)