Ep.16 - Studia Nova

00:00:00.000 | student nova it's an accredited private school everything from foreign languages to

00:00:04.320 | we're teaching piano but through these things called melodica she started to

00:00:09.040 | ask a lot more about christianity and like why do you do what you do we go to our first date and

00:00:15.840 | he's like in a soon time i'm like feeling really confident all right hello and welcome to the

00:00:26.880 | official unofficial ax2 network podcast we are launching lifelong kingdom workers from every

00:00:31.920 | college town my name is steven i'm isaiah and today we are with you guys want to introduce yourselves

00:00:36.560 | yeah and uh why don't you guys introduce yourselves real quick um just uh graduating class who are some

00:00:43.440 | of your peers around our network people you've ministered to and maybe just like your history of

00:00:49.440 | like where you first met or like where you were at first and then where did you move to and all that

00:00:54.000 | kind of a little bit of just overview dude yeah background okay my name is uh richard and well

00:01:00.320 | let's see class of 2002 so my peers are mike king here in berkeley and then angel and richard tjen out

00:01:10.240 | on the east coast southeast and then in the midwest south it's andrew iskandar out in madison wisconsin and

00:01:18.000 | and kevin carabian down in texas and then a few other peers here wilson what is your uh peer class known

00:01:25.760 | for uh do you guys have a probably highest gpa geeks geeks all stars um of that era you know nowadays

00:01:34.640 | you know maybe calvin's class or brian mal's class yeah they're pretty up there but yeah yeah the original

00:01:41.760 | east geeks yeah okay cool yeah i'm genie i'm class of 04 um my peers are like ilju sarah song here judy

00:01:50.080 | andrea i'm tiffany betty sophia um leanne here so yeah we've been here for quite a bit

00:01:57.360 | and uh before um coming to the fitlet program we were in berkeley for about 10 years and then went to

00:02:04.000 | riverside and then in the middle of covid we started apu and then slowly transitioned to pomona so

00:02:11.040 | we were in pomona for three years and then moved up here got it so fitlet stands for full-time leads

00:02:15.760 | and training and that's actually what we wanted to talk to you guys a lot about because you guys signed

00:02:19.840 | up for this one-year program to get trained up as full-time leads at our church and that a lot of

00:02:24.320 | people are like it's just like what does that entail and what do you guys do all day and stuff like

00:02:27.520 | that you know but before we get there just to get you guys just get to know you guys a little bit more

00:02:31.360 | um maybe you guys can just share how'd you start going to our church how'd you become christian what

00:02:35.360 | was that journey like for you yeah so yeah i started coming because uh one of my high school friends

00:02:41.440 | older brothers uh was part of our group back then he was a fifth year senior he gave me a new student

00:02:47.040 | welcome night flyer and so i did i went around to different clubs and i came to our new student welcome

00:02:52.560 | night i was 20 minutes late um but i got in time i got there just in time for the mask skit the original

00:02:58.800 | mass skit and i was like wow this is actually well done and this is a christian group amazing

00:03:04.560 | um and it was like really funny and and and i thought profound and so um i was like wow uh that

00:03:11.760 | was good did you go to church i grew up going to church yeah and so i was kind of looking for a

00:03:16.480 | church halfway you know um and uh i stumbled upon our group and then um we had kli burger night which

00:03:23.680 | was our sport what our sports nights were called back then it's maxwell it was it's now called

00:03:28.400 | maxwell family deal night but now it's called kli burger night maxwell i had a lot of fun so yeah

00:03:34.080 | that's how i first came to our church yeah so i didn't grow up going to church um but end of my

00:03:39.920 | senior year my aunt died from cancer i was kind of asking questions about life and um things like

00:03:45.760 | that i kind of hit a low because senior year you know you like that was like kind of you know i was

00:03:51.920 | president of a few clubs i got a lot of awards and things like that but i also saw my sinfulness

00:03:56.640 | through different choices that i had made that i regretted um so i actually started going to church

00:04:02.320 | my senior year with a friend yeah high school in high school yeah i went twice i mean by started going

00:04:07.840 | i went twice and uh there was a low point where i went to church by myself just this little white

00:04:14.400 | steeple church um and i saw that it started at 11 it was like 10 55 so i just stuck in there and that

00:04:20.480 | pastor preached on the prodigal son and i thought you know if god is like that like that father then i

00:04:26.480 | want to know who he is so coming into college that was my mindset i was like i gotta i want to learn about

00:04:33.360 | this god you know so actually in high school my non-christian friends bought me a bible because

00:04:38.240 | we were talking about all this essential stuff yeah they're like you know we heard that people go to

00:04:43.920 | the bible when you have these kind of questions so i tried reading it and like open it up it was like

00:04:48.960 | leviticus or something like i need some help right so coming into college i was looking at christian

00:04:54.160 | groups and i actually went to a lot of christian um tables so i introduced myself i was like hi you

00:04:59.600 | know and i think most people assume you're christian already so you know i didn't really make meaningful

00:05:05.120 | connections but then i get to get a flyer for welcome night and it's susan iskandar from minnesota

00:05:10.400 | and she's warm and friendly and engages me and i write on that flyer like i have to go to this one

00:05:14.880 | and then i wanted to be a teacher at that time so she walked me over to the table and i met emily kim

00:05:20.720 | who was in grad school to be a teacher at that time i thought she was like the coolest person so i wrote

00:05:26.000 | i was like must go to this group you know like cool people so i went to welcome night i was really

00:05:32.560 | blown away yeah by the messages so i think most of my freshman year i mostly only came for the content

00:05:39.440 | and then i left right after because i had other friends other activities they were really cool but

00:05:44.800 | i don't want to hang out with them yeah i did you know go to their place and stuff but it was just like

00:05:49.600 | but i always made sure i made it to the bible study and then eventually to church um so pastor ed was

00:05:55.600 | teaching like i just soaked everything up i thought the truths were so profound and it described life

00:06:02.320 | you know as i had experienced it so i didn't know what i didn't have the word sin in my vocabulary

00:06:10.080 | but i had experienced the effects of sin you know and so when pastor ed put a label on it and described

00:06:16.640 | you know our brokenness i just thought that's so true like this is exactly what i experienced

00:06:21.760 | and then that experience of like yeah god is like this father you know and so it took course 101

00:06:28.640 | the middle of freshman year i became a christian um and then it was kind of was it like a special event

00:06:34.640 | or anything it was just kind of it was a sunday sunday service yeah just i forget exactly the passage

00:06:40.800 | you know it's one of those like like i'm ready like i'm ready like i understand um yeah and then

00:06:48.000 | then that that's it yeah for like did you um become christian or church was it before like

00:06:54.480 | what was kind of that spiritual journey like for you through college yeah i think growing up going to

00:07:00.000 | church i came into college uh looking for independence and freedom and kind of looking to walk away um in

00:07:06.480 | some ways and at least open to the idea very open to the idea but before i walked away i felt like i

00:07:11.920 | should at least figure out to see it um whether or not there's any merit to it and so i took course 101

00:07:17.680 | and um pastor ed's messages uh they were unusual to me in a lot of ways um but i got at least one thing

00:07:25.360 | most of the time but the thing that struck me the most was just the authenticity with the way uh

00:07:31.120 | in the way that people lived out their faith and so that struck me and that kept me coming to see

00:07:36.400 | like there must be something here um i took a little bit longer and so i made my clear salvation

00:07:42.480 | decision in my junior year so it was probably kind of right around the same time since we're two years

00:07:46.960 | apart yeah but i think my junior year was the time where i really saw my sinfulness for the first time

00:07:53.360 | clearly and owned it for myself knew that i couldn't fix it on my own through just my own like ability to

00:08:00.640 | work around it or to stop it and then um that's when the cross became um the most meaningful to me so

00:08:06.960 | so you guys been doing by vocational ministry for gosh how long for you now since 2002 so that's

00:08:13.280 | over 20 years 22 years now yeah so i have a working a full-time job yeah what did you guys do before

00:08:19.840 | becoming fit like so i was i'll go first because it's not as impressive

00:08:24.880 | i was a teacher um and then i became a technical writer um and how i got that job was

00:08:32.080 | Eunice they wanted to hire Eunice she's like i can't take Eunice Kim she's like um i'm about to like go plant a

00:08:39.840 | church so you can't hire me but i know this sister and then i go to the job interview and on my resume

00:08:46.640 | it's like i wrote for our website yeah they're like you write for pastor ed i was like yeah but it turns

00:08:54.160 | out like they went hiring the hiring manager knew of pastor yeah because pastor spoke at a retreat

00:09:00.400 | for like a korean church when they were in college or postgrad so then i got the job so that's how i

00:09:07.920 | made the transition from teaching to writing yeah oh actually that's interesting because my first job

00:09:13.680 | out of college i got through genie oh oh you did i did the video side of her tech writing wow i forgot

00:09:20.960 | about that but yeah that's uh it's interesting it's all about it's all about who you know yeah oh i

00:09:27.040 | guess i should thank my dad i guess that's interesting um and then yeah sure um after college i went to

00:09:33.120 | law school and i worked as an attorney um most recently i worked as for the state as an administrative

00:09:39.120 | law judge um and yep that's what it is is it true that you would show up to like all the college events

00:09:44.880 | with your suit yeah like your first like your judge no no no no this is the first few years where i had

00:09:51.760 | to wear a suit to work every day okay and i was working long hours so right when i got out of the

00:09:56.880 | office i would head straight to berkeley go to campus and just participated in whatever we were doing that

00:10:02.560 | day and so if it was bible study i'd go to bible study in my suit if it was dining hall outreach i'd do

00:10:08.000 | that in my suit if it was ultimate frisbee i'd roll up my sleeves roll up my pant legs and just run out

00:10:14.000 | there with a lot of suits with all the freshmen yeah probably outran a lot yeah so you guys oh

00:10:19.360 | go now i was just gonna say funny story about the suit thing so when we first started dating we i mean

00:10:25.200 | i knew of him we didn't know each other that well so and he called me i was like oh sure why not because

00:10:29.840 | i knew him as like someone that was like a hard-working brother in our midst but anyway we go to our first

00:10:35.440 | date and he's like in a suit and tie and i didn't know that he wore it all the time for work you know so i'm

00:10:41.760 | like feeling really confident like wow like this guy's a tryhard he's trying really hard he's just

00:10:49.120 | trying hard and that's what she liked he must be really into me right so that so it was a good first

00:10:55.360 | impression it was good because you know i was kind of nervous you know and then i was like i'm feeling

00:10:59.440 | confident okay i think it's gonna go well were you able to tell yeah like this girl's no i was really

00:11:05.760 | nervous too you know right right after i did yeah and then i was like he wears a suit everywhere he goes

00:11:12.960 | even when he really should not be in a suit yeah that's true wow wow i think the guys listening to

00:11:19.360 | this podcast should take notes they should wear a suit on your first date yeah yeah so you guys well

00:11:25.920 | let's talk about that a little bit so your guys relationship so um best and worst date story do

00:11:33.440 | you guys have any fun ones hmm oh yeah worst date okay i can't mind quick you know we were i mean

00:11:42.960 | we were pretty in a busy season of life so like i worked a teaching job it was like a one hour commute

00:11:48.720 | he was at a really hard law firm and we were both busy with ministry so it was hard to like plug in time

00:11:53.920 | you know so there was like a stretch where it was like okay let's find a time to me just couldn't

00:11:58.080 | figure out time so he's like let's meet before like jcc practice right okay yeah like on saturday

00:12:05.360 | morning right he's like let's meet at 6 30 a.m for breakfast and i'm like i'm not a morning person

00:12:11.840 | so that for me that was like the worst day i'm like i never want to do this ever again i'd rather not

00:12:19.680 | see you let's see you at 6 30 in the morning yeah but that was saturday morning you know friend yeah

00:12:26.240 | i thought you were going to talk about the the the day that i proposed that was the worst no no well

00:12:32.160 | okay no no that was it was inconvenient but that was also the date where um yeah we had to meet for

00:12:38.720 | breakfast so it was like 6 30 or 7 but i had to pull the trailer for jcc practice okay so i woke up

00:12:44.880 | earlier pulled the trailer to willard yeah dropped it off and then went back to when i found out about

00:12:49.920 | that then i was like wow you know you're awesome so i dropped off this anyway yeah but then uh the day

00:12:56.400 | that i was going to propose okay so we went to um that you know that walkway off at the bay and bay farm

00:13:03.920 | yeah yeah right right along the coast and then i was like hey let's meet up you know it's like okay and

00:13:09.360 | then she was supposed to help i was helping the sister move and it was just me and my like suv

00:13:16.240 | she's like i don't have a lot of stuff i have like five boxes and i get there she has like a ton of

00:13:21.120 | stuff it took me like four hours and i'm moving it like by myself no elevator up no elevator up like two

00:13:28.400 | flights of stairs so i'm like i don't want to meet today i'm like hi i'm 20 like i just moved like right

00:13:34.720 | like four trips for this little girl he's like no i really want to i was like okay you know

00:13:40.560 | so he had no idea it was coming no i didn't know i was just like okay he must have no other time this

00:13:47.680 | week to meet me you know but because we got engaged it washed away the yeah yeah yeah yeah

00:13:54.720 | that's so funny yeah that's so funny so that's funny so you have you have any like positive

00:14:02.480 | stories you want to balance that out with or yeah anytime you didn't meet i'm just like

00:14:08.400 | i did want to ask you a little bit more about like the bivocational ministry things so

00:14:13.200 | um just like as a college senior what was what what made you stick around and you know decided to do

00:14:20.320 | ministry here and for as long as you did two decades i guess for both of you um yeah what went into that

00:14:25.760 | decision i think um there were a few pivotal like moments in underground that really changed my like

00:14:34.160 | it was a paradigm shift for me um one of them was uh going on mission trip to japan you know and um not

00:14:40.400 | only just going on the mission trip but the summer the summer before i went um we sent a team and and

00:14:46.560 | just seeing how um japan could be the most efficient orderly you know society and yet produce so much

00:14:55.040 | lostness and brokenness amongst its people that really struck me you know and it and and then i had

00:15:01.920 | you know internships in college and things like that worked with like really smart successful people

00:15:07.200 | and when i took a look at what their lives were really about it was like just for the weekends it was

00:15:11.920 | like their wine collection or something like that and in my mind i was pretty ambitious as an undergrad

00:15:17.440 | but i was like man am i gonna burn all of my years and energy you know just to just for like a wine

00:15:26.000 | collection you know and i and so i just saw the emptiness of of that kind of life and and what

00:15:31.440 | that would look like you know 10 20 years down the line but also seeing that really society has no other

00:15:37.120 | answer you know um seeing how lost uh even the japanese people are you know and japanese college

00:15:42.800 | students and so um at that point i personally just felt like man yeah the gospel is the hope of the

00:15:48.320 | world you know and so it's just something that i wanted to commit to doing and i haven't seen

00:15:53.200 | ministry done anywhere else like our church does you know um and so i just wanted to be a part of that you

00:16:01.760 | know to experience um the way that god was um reaching people um at our church um in a way that

00:16:08.880 | i hadn't seen in any other way and so um yeah i i was thrilled to be a part of that what year was

00:16:14.080 | that when you went to japan uh i went in i went the summer of 2001 was that the famous olympic center

00:16:21.280 | no no no no no i went for the whole summer actually oh wow so it wasn't just a two-week thing but i got

00:16:26.480 | to go for the whole summer i lived at uh tony sun's house oh that's when they were there yeah that was

00:16:31.280 | when yeah and so stefan and philip were like little yeah you know runs running around there um

00:16:37.920 | but we had a lot of fun and it was uh it was a really wonderful experience uh yeah so

00:16:42.640 | yeah i think my um choice to stay at college it was like more tenuous you know yeah i actually left

00:16:51.680 | so i went four and a half years in college and then i went home for a semester because

00:16:55.920 | to help my family out yeah um and then i wasn't sure if i was going to actually come back to our church

00:17:00.640 | but then i got to grad school and then i came back um but i think it was over time so you asked earlier

00:17:07.920 | like people we ministered to i think it was as i was doing ministry that my heart for college ministry

00:17:14.640 | specifically grew so you know i'm the only christian in my family and so that was like a big burden yeah

00:17:21.200 | um college ministry i wasn't sure like i would be really into that i love like children you know i

00:17:26.880 | wanted to be a teacher enjoy youth so so it wasn't the demographic but i knew that i wanted to do some

00:17:33.520 | kind of ministry so you know in undergrad i read about like heroes of faith and so that was always in

00:17:39.040 | my mind yeah i'm a christian i want to share the gospel um but yeah staying at our church serving

00:17:44.960 | like that was kind of like i'm not sure you know like i still had trouble with like just church life

00:17:53.200 | because it was just you know at the end of the day like it was not something i was used to

00:17:57.520 | you know for most of my life and i don't know if anyone's yeah yeah so but as i grew you know some

00:18:04.960 | of the first classes was one class that stands out to me is like 2014 like helen zoo casey um they were

00:18:12.640 | so fun like i had so much every day yeah i had so much fun with them we had like road trips and they were

00:18:18.960 | you know just kind of um helping them grow um really saw helped me see yeah just how um fulfilling

00:18:27.840 | you know sharing the gospel and leading people and then also as i got older and more mature i realized

00:18:33.120 | like how much was given to me i think that took me time to see um and seeing how yeah if i had not

00:18:39.920 | you know been like a recipient of so so much of people's sacrifices from people that ministered to me to

00:18:47.920 | people that just gave to the environment you know like tithe so that we could have like these home

00:18:53.920 | getaway homes or you know even i remember like pastor donathan giving up like harvard and that

00:18:59.760 | like set a new standard for me like wow he he could have done that but he's here and he's preaching and

00:19:05.440 | he's teaching and you know um and yeah passing on wisdom you know to people like me you know and so i think

00:19:13.680 | as i just matured my convictions grew um but it definitely it was kind of like i'll try it out

00:19:19.840 | and see how it goes for for a little while wow i really yeah i love how in both your stories sort of

00:19:25.840 | cover the gamut you know that there's people who like right away like i know this is what i want to

00:19:30.160 | do and i want to be part of that you know and you have an experience of being disillusioned by you

00:19:34.640 | know working life you're on a mission trip well often part of that story and then you realize wow this is

00:19:39.520 | what i want to do and then you got like the i'm not really sure about this there's some real things

00:19:43.520 | i'm not used to and i don't know and you kind of go in going maybe a year you know i'll just test it

00:19:48.160 | out and then your heart gets really you know captured by ministry and seeing people transform

00:19:52.560 | and i think um i think there's a lot there that uh everyone in our network can identify with and

00:19:56.960 | encourage um maybe you can speak into a little bit just a one more thing on this bivocational thing

00:20:01.520 | um you know uh 22 years that's a long time so what are some things that like like were challenging

00:20:08.960 | about it and then like got better like over time like maybe in a long-term view or or yeah just

00:20:14.080 | something that where you could speak to someone who's maybe in the thick of that challenge if you

00:20:17.360 | like it gets better you know like we're like you know encourage them a little bit you know yeah yeah

00:20:22.240 | oh yeah i'll be honest because i want to encourage some sisters out there

00:20:28.720 | you know um like i was a mess of a person in college right like my room like i had my laundry

00:20:35.920 | on my bed you know and then when i had to go to sleep sometimes i'd put on my desk it was like back up

00:20:41.680 | you know it was like i just could not keep track of my schedule like i just couldn't get life done

00:20:48.880 | just some guys are like this too okay yeah that does not make me feel better you know that some guys are

00:20:54.240 | like i'm just saying like yeah yeah that's where i started you know i don't have a lot of like

00:21:00.080 | discipline or habits and so going into working life becoming a mom like leading a ministry like that all

00:21:07.520 | catches up with you you know so i think like the hardest part is like just maintaining like an orderly

00:21:16.880 | life while doing ministry and leading people and meeting different needs you know um i wouldn't

00:21:23.760 | say that that's the hardest part because there's other hard things like you know like people break

00:21:27.680 | you know break your heart and like you know things like that but i think in terms of being bivocational

00:21:33.840 | or co-vocational and doing ministry you are busy you are busy and um there's some things that you just

00:21:41.360 | need to get better at with life and that's where i experienced a lot of strength like coming from

00:21:46.160 | the outside you know like just yeah learning to be more structured and disciplined um actually it got

00:21:52.720 | a lot better after we got married you know because i because he's very disciplined then you know sometimes

00:22:01.040 | clean up you know after me a little bit just a little bit that helped yeah yeah um yeah i think um i remember

00:22:10.320 | early uh when i started first started working well there was that six month period where i was like

00:22:16.560 | tired all the time you know because i just entered the working world even though i was 28 at the time

00:22:24.160 | you know i felt like i was a 23 year old you know just starting to um learn how to get into the office

00:22:30.960 | do all my work and you know perform okay and and all that stuff and um so i think doing that and then

00:22:37.760 | at that time i was um i was with calvin's peers and so leading a life group as well um and so it's cool

00:22:46.720 | because calvin's in the yeah yeah calvin the program and um later we led 2014 which is brian mouse

00:22:53.760 | yeah so it's a really neat intergenerational kind of very different than when we did yeah i guess

00:22:59.680 | anyway um and so to like but to get everything done and still prioritize my spiritual disciplines

00:23:08.160 | like there's a season where i just like skimped on that you know and it bit me in the end because i just

00:23:12.880 | felt thinned out and like um it just wasn't good for me you know and so i think to going back to like

00:23:20.240 | the getting what's important done instead of just the urgent you know like your dt never feels urgent

00:23:27.280 | you know um but it's so important you know and to to get into a regular rhythm and habit of making

00:23:33.360 | sure that i have that solitude time with god first before doing any of the other things i think that

00:23:38.960 | was a challenge but it got easier over time as i submitted the schedule and i just personally became

00:23:43.520 | more disciplined but also as i really saw the value of having those disciplines in place first you

00:23:49.680 | know before anything else and so i think me like i can execute things and get things done you know

00:23:56.160 | but do it in such a way that it becomes very mechanical you know and so to be able to like have

00:24:01.600 | those times where i'm engaging my heart you know while getting those things done or you know

00:24:07.440 | letting some things drop you know in order to prioritize kind of heart engagement you know

00:24:13.600 | i think that is something that was difficult in the beginning just because i thought i could do

00:24:18.720 | everything because i was young and i was brash you know but over time you know just seeing the reality

00:24:24.800 | and what i needed and what my limitations were i think that became easier over time yeah wow so you guys

00:24:31.760 | were at berkeley riverside apu and pomona is that right yeah are we missing any yeah yeah

00:24:37.920 | yeah you guys have a favorite campus

00:24:39.920 | hmm oh yeah i can't see that

00:24:43.040 | it's virtual man i love i love them all

00:24:45.040 | all right you don't have to tell us but tell us after the show um you want to get into the fit lit thing yeah yeah

00:24:54.320 | yeah so so fit lit uh lit stands for leads and training like i said and um yeah getting a year

00:25:01.040 | training it's a program that it's like a second time we're doing the first time was with us we were

00:25:04.800 | the guinea pigs and you know um and so um what he changed a lot from our program it has changed a lot

00:25:11.440 | it's like upgrade i don't know what that says about us but a lot changed we were beta yeah um uh why did

00:25:18.960 | you sign up for yeah i was curious about that because it's not like you had a good thing going

00:25:24.640 | you're just why make that switch now 22 years yeah yeah you know um it was a little bit of a surprise

00:25:30.800 | that uh we were even asked to be part of the program given our age but um you know pastor had emailed us

00:25:37.440 | and it was i i still kind of remember because he emailed on a sunday and i was finishing my message

00:25:44.800 | and i saw his email come in but i was like i cannot read this right now and then did you see

00:25:50.400 | the subject line you knew what it was well no i didn't i was like oh it's something important but

00:25:54.240 | i'm not going to look at it right now i have to preach and then she texted me she's like what do you

00:25:59.600 | want to do right and so we were going to talk about it right but i was like i cannot talk about it

00:26:03.040 | so um but i think the morning stress yeah i think the opportunity just to be trained by

00:26:10.480 | pestering kelly in a focused way yeah you know um uh was just an opportunity we didn't want to pass up

00:26:17.520 | and then we had concerns because um where pomona ministry was we just felt like we needed to be

00:26:23.440 | there but then rick and sue had been with us for a long time and they kind of knew what the ministry was

00:26:28.080 | like and and what the state of it was and so um they thought it would be okay for us to um leave pomona

00:26:34.720 | and be part of this program so that gave us some extra reassurance too but just uh just the opportunity

00:26:40.080 | to um to just surrender and to put our yes on the table and you know to um be trained because i

00:26:49.200 | think i personally also felt like after three years of leading pomona ministry as a bible i was

00:26:55.120 | right up at the edge of my leadership kind of capability you know and like um and so i felt like

00:27:02.640 | it was something we we needed to do as well you know so yeah it was it was good timing and um

00:27:08.160 | yeah so i think that's the main reason why we yeah so i had stopped working in 2017 already

00:27:16.320 | and working for church um and so my when we got the invite i was like wow they like actually won us

00:27:24.400 | that was why because i thought i just thought are you sure we were just like kind of older already

00:27:30.720 | anyway but i think um but prior to that i was kind of reaching um i think my just capacity like kind

00:27:41.600 | of a ceiling um and then as their retirement coming up yeah it was like shoot like you know like i gotta grow

00:27:51.760 | so i think i was mostly motivated by personal growth especially as you know in our context

00:27:57.600 | before we had a lot of older ones with you had a lot of heart a lot of zeal you know and i really wanted

00:28:04.480 | to help them grow as well but um i felt like i i need to i need to grow first and like kind of understand

00:28:13.360 | or just yeah just grow just grow and so yeah i didn't know we didn't really know what was gonna

00:28:18.720 | happen when we got here but um we were excited to be with you know pastor and kelly i think one of the

00:28:24.480 | reasons i actually stayed on staff for so long even when i struggled was just like meeting with them i

00:28:30.720 | like ministry didn't have to go well you know like i didn't have to enjoy everything but every time we had

00:28:37.120 | meetings or i met with them i would learn something you know about myself or about the world and just

00:28:42.160 | grow wiser and so i just yeah i was looking forward to that having that time again so how's it how's

00:28:47.600 | it been yeah and what's like what's the program like because i don't know what's the usual day yeah

00:28:52.960 | yeah yeah what's the day there's no usual day that's the usual there's no usual week

00:28:58.800 | no no there are some usual days there's like a default day okay what's the default week where a

00:29:04.960 | lot of times we just spend uh being available at hb for anything that needs to happen and so

00:29:10.720 | that in and of itself is like the wild card right because we were like last week we were anticipating oh

00:29:16.080 | well but so we would be doing some bible reading reading c.s lewis you know things like that those are the

00:29:21.920 | regular things yeah those are the regular reading always like bible um c.s lewis time and then we

00:29:27.200 | have our own projects by our cohorts within the fitlet program so we're project man we're doing studio

00:29:33.360 | nova you know helping that get launched yeah um the guys do btt also we do btt bible user training you

00:29:40.160 | know but like last week we got pulled into making the tent um at hb so that wasn't new yeah yeah it's

00:29:45.840 | like 10 hour 10 hour days yeah so yeah to beat the rain so yeah but our default is to be here at

00:29:51.840 | hb and kind of do some of that kind of um you know bible readings c.s lewis and btt and projects

00:29:58.640 | but man we've gone we've done everything from clean every cabin at jp to going to new york city and

00:30:06.560 | you know um trying out a lot of different ministry playbooks out there yeah you guys are going to

00:30:11.280 | see a lot of the country and just a lot of campuses and yeah yeah work atlanta yeah we went to new york

00:30:18.160 | and then during that boston northeast trip went to boston and hit yale yukon um amherst along the way

00:30:26.400 | and went to atlanta then we went to the midwest and uiuc and yeah madison we get a little like updates

00:30:33.600 | like oh the fitlets are doing uh evangelism road trip over here and there and on one hand it could

00:30:37.920 | seem like a lot of like just travel but like what has gone going out what has that done for your

00:30:43.040 | perspective on ministry and your heart like can you speak into that a little bit just oh man i i think

00:30:48.560 | definitely the erts have been like a highlight of my experience because you know it's not like we're

00:30:54.000 | not engaged in gospel sharing but you know when you're like a kind of older leader like you're not

00:30:59.440 | sharing the gospel that often like directly to people because you're like yeah helping the people who are

00:31:04.400 | doing yeah and you're doing like logistics or having meetings and counseling and things like that

00:31:09.120 | so i think seeing different contexts and like just sharing the gospel again and again that's one thing

00:31:14.640 | we all did you know um like it just reminded it just kind of brought me back to first love and like

00:31:23.280 | wanting to be out like yeah out in the field i think so one thing that's done for me is like yeah you know

00:31:29.600 | you gotta just go and like something will happen you know because i think prior to that it's like yeah

00:31:36.320 | you know you have your plans and you have your google doc not that that's not needed you know for like

00:31:41.440 | events that we do but there's this other thing that we experience where it's like you know in the gospels

00:31:47.120 | like jesus does it you know they don't have like google docs he's just like hey guys we're going over

00:31:52.160 | the lake you know like he knows there's a demoniac across the lake but like the other guys they don't

00:31:57.760 | know they're just you probably should not put that on the calendar yeah but that's what we experience

00:32:02.720 | it's like we don't know who's there but but god knows you know he knows like this random you know

00:32:09.520 | this like attorney walking down the street she stops and i get to share the gospel with her and she's

00:32:15.040 | been thinking about god even though she's from china you know we meet like another um chinese kid he's

00:32:20.640 | read like half the bible wow you know and so i think just experiencing that um just humbled me

00:32:28.400 | and just made me see again like we just need to go out there because god knows like who's he can make

00:32:34.720 | things happen and orchestrate situations and um you know and like calvin nestor and um our midwest trip

00:32:42.480 | you know we they met two people that were just ready to accept christ like who knew you know yeah

00:32:48.240 | yeah yeah i remember that like when we moved out to philly together that those first like that first

00:32:53.280 | year definitely felt like oh we're just joining in on things that god has already been doing and we just

00:32:57.840 | need to be willing to do that so that's really neat yeah i'm curious like as you've done these erts

00:33:03.440 | and i mean like we've we i think i feel like we've learned a lot indirectly from your guys erts like

00:33:08.240 | the lesson about hey like when you do outreach do it all together don't be on like a sad pair on the

00:33:11.920 | corner like so we've like really adopted some of those things but as you do that um how is it

00:33:17.200 | shifting your perspective about like a ministry like any ideas like when you go back into ministry

00:33:21.040 | and you're back on the college campus in normal capacity like any ideas like how you might do things

00:33:26.160 | differently or things you want to try now as as you're you know observing these campuses and going out

00:33:32.960 | i would i would um attempt more even if it's not like a tried and true kind of a thing you know like

00:33:41.440 | we wanted to put on a some kind of an event where people can come to you know but we're like man we

00:33:46.640 | don't even have a room how are we going to do that and so we just brought the special talk to them you

00:33:52.560 | know um made a handout for it and just asked people while we were firing hey you have five minutes we can

00:33:58.640 | sit down and talk about this topic and um and so one of the the the neatest pictures was uh when about

00:34:06.160 | 10 of us were on campus at the university of wisconsin and there were about 10 special talks happening right

00:34:16.480 | there you know in either one-on-one or one-on-two one-on-three you know things like that and so

00:34:22.240 | um just to try something you know on campus and to be out there more i mean that's you'll you'll you'll

00:34:28.720 | meet spiritually hungry people you know as you're out there so um i would make that more of a regular

00:34:33.680 | part of our schedule you know we'll go out there and we'll table but you know sometimes it's just

00:34:38.000 | flattering for an event and that needs to happen too right but to be able to go out there and you know

00:34:44.160 | um try a little bit more or something a little bit different to have like uh richer spiritual

00:34:50.320 | engagement um i think sometimes i felt like oh man it's not really gonna there's like who's gonna

00:34:57.360 | really stop for this or something like that but man a lot of people stopped and were engaged in kind

00:35:04.080 | of really rich conversations yeah yes i don't know if you've been feeling this but i've definitely been

00:35:08.160 | feeling this so at rutgers we've been trying to just go out you know twice a week and do outreach and

00:35:12.160 | definitely feel like people are more spiritually hungry like i can't prove that to you but i

00:35:16.400 | definitely feel it and sort of the sort of the challenge is like they're more spiritually hungry

00:35:20.720 | but they're still not coming to events like they're still not coming into your special talk or your bible

00:35:24.160 | study but there is more spiritual hunger so it's like how do we take advantage of that and i really

00:35:28.800 | like what you guys did and that might be part of the answer just like okay we got to do more on the

00:35:32.480 | spot like they have the questions let's answer right now instead of hoping to funnel them into some

00:35:37.920 | holding tank that we're yeah it's not just like attempt more but it's actually a fundamental

00:35:42.160 | different approach it's not bring them to a time where they can hear content it's like

00:35:46.640 | no you are the content and you go there and you go meet them because they're busy the window of

00:35:50.960 | opportunity is small and so you just gotta be ready right there yeah and if you just held a bunch of

00:35:55.760 | events you would never know that like you would never know people are more spiritually hungry because

00:35:58.720 | they're still not coming in any more numbers than they used to but like yeah you guys are seeing that on campus

00:36:03.440 | yeah and i think uh like a corollary that would be just to train more of our students too and invest a

00:36:08.720 | little bit more in that because they're where the students are you know so if they're equipped to

00:36:13.280 | answer those questions you know and things like that then um man that's that's gold i think right there

00:36:19.920 | you know and i think we've experienced that in a lot of ways even in our last semester at pomona where we

00:36:24.400 | try to do course 101 training you know to our students and then or evangelism training and then they just go and

00:36:29.840 | share the gospel with their friends and their friends become christian you know things like that

00:36:33.920 | and so we saw that kind of grow in a huge way too so yeah yeah yeah um i think one thing i would do

00:36:42.000 | differently is to do not is to have our staff and our students experience more ministries you know so

00:36:49.680 | while we've been here we've also been doing elderly care ministry so i have like a one-on-one bible study

00:36:56.160 | going on with like a really sharp elderly woman she's she's like she had a stroke and she's there

00:37:02.480 | but her mind is she's really sharp um the guys have been going to the dream center and that's been

00:37:08.720 | really like great for them yeah that's where you've been doing the computer training yeah yeah we go we've

00:37:14.240 | been going for their gospel nights oh you know and so um that's like once every term so once every six

00:37:20.000 | weeks or so dream center for those who don't know maybe just explain it um it's a it's a center where

00:37:25.680 | people who have been incarcerated kind of re-enter society and so they have housing and things like

00:37:30.880 | that it's sponsored by a church it's a ministry of a church and we come alongside them and provide

00:37:35.840 | a lot of the um skills and computer training that will help them to kind of um re-enter society

00:37:42.240 | because a lot of them have never yeah they've been in prison for like 30 40 years and they've never

00:37:46.080 | seen email or anything like that they have a hard time with a mouse um and so like a lot of our tech

00:37:52.160 | guys that's just something that we can kind of help them and show them what to do so yeah yeah so what

00:37:57.680 | what does um just to go back to close a loop like what does what do you think that people experiencing

00:38:02.400 | more ministries does yeah you know i haven't been able to like capture it in words um but i think

00:38:09.280 | what it's done from my heart is just kind of having like a a wider bigger picture of how god's at work

00:38:17.440 | and just having a deeper appreciation for the church too you know because we're in a very small church

00:38:25.840 | right and it's like mostly college and um and a little bit of youth and things like that but you know

00:38:32.080 | it's a very small kind of slice of reality right um but here you know we live with like richard and

00:38:39.440 | lauren kwan you know and so we have a window into like what happens at barnabas like all the things

00:38:44.960 | that she's doing like the way that she leads food you know they've been keeping up her and richard

00:38:50.240 | they've been keeping up with a japanese professor for years and they do a zoom bible study with him and

00:38:56.560 | just yeah i think what it does for me is just gives me a more of a sense of like

00:39:03.920 | well god is at work in all these different ways at our church and there's a lot that we can do there's

00:39:10.480 | a lot of work that needs to get done there's a lot of people that need the gospel and so something about

00:39:16.880 | that bigger perspective puts everything else in perspective you know so it's not yeah so if you're

00:39:24.000 | like really narrowly focused on just campus ministry and how that's going like it could start on the

00:39:28.160 | campus but if you narrowly focus on that your your mood your your convictions your spiritual fervor can

00:39:33.760 | really rise and fall just on what's happening in that world yeah world small and i think it's

00:39:38.720 | kind of like the way i see our staff it changes because yeah right now they're doing college

00:39:43.760 | ministry you know but you know i look at like our um a2k ministry for example man they are so awesome

00:39:51.200 | like they do so much for the kids like they we had this halloween thing and it was like our middle

00:39:56.560 | school kids and a2k they like it was amazing like the setup and thoughtfulness yeah you know and so i think

00:40:04.080 | just my perspective of like yeah how do we need to grow as kingdom workers it's not just a narrow set

00:40:09.920 | of like i'm doing college ministry and these are the things i need to be able to do as a college

00:40:13.440 | minister like it's like no no you're a minister and maybe right now you're doing college ministry

00:40:18.240 | but you know i want to like myself and everyone like we got to keep growing in all kinds of ways so

00:40:24.640 | that we can be kingdom workers in whatever context you know and so that picture of context is like way more

00:40:30.800 | rich for me after this year so yeah i mean it goes back to that what i said at the beginning of

00:40:36.000 | the podcast launching lifelong kingdom workers and so um not putting your identity in like the particular

00:40:43.120 | kind of ministry i'm doing but that i'm just a minister oh forever and to whoever god needs me to be

00:40:49.360 | and there's something very healthy about that yeah i think my experience of that because i love the fact

00:40:54.800 | that i am i have touch points at ecm and dream center and you know even helping out impact for a

00:41:00.560 | few weeks i think it gives me greater confidence in the gospel in the church because i look around and

00:41:05.920 | i'm like oh man when you're 75 or 80 years old you need the gospel when you're six year old yeah you need

00:41:12.560 | the gospel you know and i'm like oh there's so much need out there and so it just kind of elevates my own

00:41:18.880 | thinking of my my own life also you know and um gives me confidence in the fact that like what we

00:41:25.280 | need to do out there is really um something that people um really need you know um so nothing is in

00:41:31.840 | vain you know and we just got to keep sewing out there yeah so so speaking of other ministries and

00:41:37.840 | things can you tell us a little bit about studio nova before we have to wrap up here like how's it been

00:41:42.640 | i don't know what's going on with studio yeah just what is it and why are we diving into it how's it

00:41:46.800 | been yeah yeah how's it going yeah well it started with you know a lot of i everyone saw the presentation

00:41:54.480 | but you know school is not just like about school anymore and there's a lot of different yeah um but

00:42:00.640 | also the other reality is you know our kids are not learning um as much as they could be learning and

00:42:06.480 | now it's very clear to us because kids took an assessment and now we know where they are and

00:42:12.720 | they're they're you know because we don't let them watch tv and they read all the time they're very

00:42:17.200 | very smart they're just under challenge they're under challenge so we are trying to test them

00:42:23.520 | and he was like 11th grade level yeah reading at the 11th grade level yeah yeah although we probably

00:42:27.760 | have to strike that from that because it's confidential but yeah it's okay um but yeah but we're um so

00:42:35.200 | student nova it's an accredited private school um and i'm really excited about all that they're gonna

00:42:41.760 | learn um i think i'm also excited about like all the ways that our our kids are gonna learn in outside

00:42:50.160 | of the curriculum so some of the things that we have planned because the curriculum part where they're

00:42:54.960 | learning um and you know they're not like doing we're not the micro school yeah the micro school part

00:43:00.960 | they're doing their online learning lessons you know so so let me just it's a private school with

00:43:05.920 | an online curriculum and so the benefit is that a student will come and they'll take an assessment

00:43:12.000 | and then they'll have an education pathway that's kind of custom made for them kind of where they're at

00:43:18.800 | and like what gaps in knowledge or understanding that need to be filled and so it's a custom pattern that

00:43:24.240 | way and so in that way they're not hopefully they're not like super bored right as they're sitting in the

00:43:28.720 | classroom and so um that's one benefit you know and then um so they operate out of sac uh close by

00:43:34.880 | sacramento and we're going to start an alameda campus here um at hb um and so what where are we

00:43:41.520 | starting uh january like next month yeah oh wow right after um winter camp so we have about 20 24 25

00:43:49.680 | kids um who are going to start it's going to be a micro school so it's everyone from first and then we

00:43:54.080 | have a first grade through we have a few middle schoolers and so they're all in one classroom kind

00:43:59.280 | of doing their their coursework together on their separate computers um and but it's kind of a a community

00:44:07.520 | feel where the older younger one room yeah one room classroom yeah exactly and so um and then after

00:44:14.400 | they're done with the online curriculum then we'll have enrichment classes um and everything from

00:44:19.600 | foreign languages to 3d printing you know yeah so we have parents um lined up to teach different

00:44:26.320 | things not like take turns yeah so we're teaching korean we're teaching chinese um we're teaching piano

00:44:33.760 | but through these things called melodicas what you can look it up it's kind of a funny instrument where

00:44:38.800 | you have to blow into a tube to make sound yeah yeah um basic music theory and melodicas we have a chapel

00:44:45.760 | hour where they're going to gain more fluency in scripture there's fun stuff too like ping pong pe

00:44:52.000 | there's bibliopolis so it's like it's like online private like one room house like like like schoolhouse

00:45:01.760 | camp yeah all together the learning time is only like a couple hours three hours yeah so the afternoon

00:45:08.400 | time is what we're providing and how are the kids like are they excited about this like how are they

00:45:13.200 | oh really they're not like they're missing regular school they don't want to do this well right now

00:45:17.600 | they're excited okay yeah we hope they're gonna i think they're like willing participants yeah yeah yeah

00:45:24.320 | yeah actually that's one thing like if their child really doesn't want to do it like that's something we

00:45:29.600 | want to talk to the parents about it but we have not had situations like that actually we had the

00:45:33.840 | opposite where it was like we only want to do first through fifth and then these older kids are like

00:45:38.560 | wait a minute like we want to learn we're not learning we want to do it so yeah i had this

00:45:46.080 | and so you guys are like the headmistress and headmaster no no no emily kim oh emily kim is like

00:45:52.720 | superintendent principal yeah we kind of do all the logistical yeah work so yeah gosh gosh so then we're

00:46:02.240 | we're highlighting this yeah to see i guess the benefit of our network is to see if there's just better

00:46:07.680 | education for our kids as well as just other yeah yeah okay that's kind of neat never thought never

00:46:15.440 | thought we'd be doing this i know we didn't know i mean it was like fit lit training but we're starting

00:46:21.440 | a school yeah that wasn't in the draft description i started a micro school i have one final thing before

00:46:29.840 | we wrap up because i think we gotta end it kind of soon it's been a lot we covered but um tell us going back

00:46:35.840 | back to the fit lit program i just want to hear a little bit about how it's been in terms of

00:46:39.760 | your your group so you mentioned you're in cohorts right um there's 10 couples nine couples

00:46:45.040 | nine couples and it's very different from our experience so our experience six couples it was

00:46:49.360 | six couples and the youngest of us was 2013 and the oldest was 2010 so it's a four-year age gap

00:46:54.480 | what is it for you guys it's like it's like a decade right it's 2014 thanks for highlighting that

00:46:59.440 | yeah yeah but how's that been like interpersonally like what do you appreciate about the other guys

00:47:12.880 | what what bugs you about them if you want like yeah just how's it been doing this with this kind of wild

00:47:18.240 | and crazy group you know like these guys josh and dj and yeah it's a lot of fun it's great it's so fun yeah

00:47:24.640 | i think this like intergenerational cohort of fitlets is it really has been a lot of fun i think

00:47:30.880 | we all bring a little bit of a different dynamic to the table but it all kind of works together and

00:47:36.800 | i think you know like uh you're talking about erts and i was like man there's such community creating

00:47:42.960 | power when we're all out there kind of doing this thing together you know and so that picture of all

00:47:48.080 | of us doing our little like special talks on our own um and just trying things we're like what are we

00:47:54.640 | supposed to do is this gonna work i don't know let's just go for it you know um yeah it just it it it

00:48:02.080 | really brings i think a lot of us it has brought a lot of us together um and even the day-to-day is a

00:48:07.840 | lot of fun so um we could be hanging from scaffolding 30 feet in the air in the cold you know or cooking

00:48:14.240 | breakfast at 6 a.m yeah um doesn't matter it as long as you know we have people that we enjoy being

00:48:20.880 | with and and have that community there then i feel like we can do uh that you know a lot of things are

00:48:26.240 | possible you know so yeah and it seems like you guys like have your system down for like erts like

00:48:31.360 | everyone kind of knows their role and like you don't even talk about it i heard like you just go on

00:48:35.120 | campus and it's like automatic completely in sync yeah yeah yeah after we've been doing these things

00:48:40.880 | for so many times until the newest idea comes and then we'll kind of figure things out you know but

00:48:46.240 | even that's a fun process yeah i think um the age it doesn't it i don't know that i think about it

00:48:55.440 | you know like there's like brian mount um dre they're like the youngest but there's things i learn you

00:49:01.600 | know from them ben and helen they're like the fit lit parents you know they kind of like keep track

00:49:06.400 | of us and like know what's going on and stuff and um but i think it just i think one thing about

00:49:14.720 | experiencing it together the fit lit program is it just made me um value just our church so much more

00:49:22.640 | in some ways because it's like when you're all in you know you have a group of people that are all in

00:49:29.120 | and you have the same goals and the same vision and you want to do the same thing you experience

00:49:35.600 | just such camaraderie you know and there's and then when there's like not you know ego in the room

00:49:41.600 | and like because you know we're all in the same room and it's like whether you're old or you're young

00:49:45.680 | like you know you're cooking breakfast yeah yeah you know it's like yeah so you're receiving truth you

00:49:52.640 | know like as it is and it's like but it's not a big deal you know because we're here to grow and learn

00:49:57.360 | and you know reach you know the world right so um in that way i think yeah kind of like in a concentrated

00:50:05.440 | way experience like just oneness and fellowship that i think yeah you can only have that i think in

00:50:13.120 | partnership with the gospel like true deep part with like years of history and shared values and

00:50:19.120 | all of that so yeah yeah what i'm hearing you say from that is just uh i mean i think something i

00:50:24.720 | experienced too infinite and since planning with a lot of the people that we are trained with you know

00:50:29.280 | like we planted philly together and now he's just said rutgers an hour away it's just appreciate

00:50:34.080 | like when so many ministers today it's just them you know and so many pastors are burning out because

00:50:39.120 | there's just like we actually get to do this with a lot of people and we get to do this in very close

00:50:44.720 | community and that's like that really is the thing that's gonna strengthen us for the like the long

00:50:50.320 | yeah i think i've been seeing that like we're just super lucky like no shade on other pastors i mean

00:50:54.720 | they're heroes like they yes yeah i'm i don't think i could do what they do on my own for sure but yeah

00:51:00.000 | the fact that we get to do it together it just makes it so much more just doable yeah it really um for me

00:51:06.320 | also um going back to your lifelong kingdom workers like this is um one of the benefits of it is being

00:51:12.960 | able to see someone when they were a freshman and then like like brian or calvin yeah and then working

00:51:20.320 | alongside them now yeah you know uh it's such a neat kind of journey to be on with them you know it only

00:51:26.320 | comes through covenant relationship and and common commitment you know um but man what a what a what a

00:51:33.360 | what a precious experience it is to be able to do that with um people for this long would your younger

00:51:38.320 | self have ever believed that brian matt would be a fifth day today at this time so the first time brian

00:51:44.560 | came over to my house right he we we had dinner we cooked dinner and he had dinner and then um i was

00:51:51.120 | like all right guys like let's uh can can can you guys help clean up right and i was like brian can

00:51:55.920 | you do the dishes and then he goes from the dining table to the couch plops down on the couch and he

00:52:00.000 | goes i don't do dishes we'll leave it at that draw your own conclusions that's a good place to stop

00:52:07.600 | there that's a good place to stop there i always have vision for people so i'm not surprised but i'm

00:52:13.040 | you know i don't ever say nice things about him so i'm gonna say it right now on the record i'm

00:52:17.760 | i'm encouraged by him yeah no i was brian mouse leader for a year or two i was my first time

00:52:23.200 | leading staff so i don't know what i did i probably did a lot of ministry malpractice on him but praise

00:52:28.000 | the lord that's all i gotta say praise the lord well thank you guys for coming on i think that was like

00:52:33.680 | so much uh there to unpack but um yeah thank you um tune in next time like subscribe gotta say it

00:52:41.360 | and uh yeah thank you guys so much thank you guys thank you

Ep.16 - Studia Nova

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