student nova it's an accredited private school everything from foreign languages to we're teaching piano but through these things called melodica she started to ask a lot more about christianity and like why do you do what you do we go to our first date and he's like in a soon time i'm like feeling really confident all right hello and welcome to the official unofficial ax2 network podcast we are launching lifelong kingdom workers from every college town my name is steven i'm isaiah and today we are with you guys want to introduce yourselves yeah and uh why don't you guys introduce yourselves real quick um just uh graduating class who are some of your peers around our network people you've ministered to and maybe just like your history of like where you first met or like where you were at first and then where did you move to and all that kind of a little bit of just overview dude yeah background okay my name is uh richard and well let's see class of 2002 so my peers are mike king here in berkeley and then angel and richard tjen out on the east coast southeast and then in the midwest south it's andrew iskandar out in madison wisconsin and and kevin carabian down in texas and then a few other peers here wilson what is your uh peer class known for uh do you guys have a probably highest gpa geeks geeks all stars um of that era you know nowadays you know maybe calvin's class or brian mal's class yeah they're pretty up there but yeah yeah the original east geeks yeah okay cool yeah i'm genie i'm class of 04 um my peers are like ilju sarah song here judy andrea i'm tiffany betty sophia um leanne here so yeah we've been here for quite a bit and uh before um coming to the fitlet program we were in berkeley for about 10 years and then went to riverside and then in the middle of covid we started apu and then slowly transitioned to pomona so we were in pomona for three years and then moved up here got it so fitlet stands for full-time leads and training and that's actually what we wanted to talk to you guys a lot about because you guys signed up for this one-year program to get trained up as full-time leads at our church and that a lot of people are like it's just like what does that entail and what do you guys do all day and stuff like that you know but before we get there just to get you guys just get to know you guys a little bit more um maybe you guys can just share how'd you start going to our church how'd you become christian what was that journey like for you yeah so yeah i started coming because uh one of my high school friends older brothers uh was part of our group back then he was a fifth year senior he gave me a new student welcome night flyer and so i did i went around to different clubs and i came to our new student welcome night i was 20 minutes late um but i got in time i got there just in time for the mask skit the original mass skit and i was like wow this is actually well done and this is a christian group amazing um and it was like really funny and and and i thought profound and so um i was like wow uh that was good did you go to church i grew up going to church yeah and so i was kind of looking for a church halfway you know um and uh i stumbled upon our group and then um we had kli burger night which was our sport what our sports nights were called back then it's maxwell it was it's now called maxwell family deal night but now it's called kli burger night maxwell i had a lot of fun so yeah that's how i first came to our church yeah so i didn't grow up going to church um but end of my senior year my aunt died from cancer i was kind of asking questions about life and um things like that i kind of hit a low because senior year you know you like that was like kind of you know i was president of a few clubs i got a lot of awards and things like that but i also saw my sinfulness through different choices that i had made that i regretted um so i actually started going to church my senior year with a friend yeah high school in high school yeah i went twice i mean by started going i went twice and uh there was a low point where i went to church by myself just this little white steeple church um and i saw that it started at 11 it was like 10 55 so i just stuck in there and that pastor preached on the prodigal son and i thought you know if god is like that like that father then i want to know who he is so coming into college that was my mindset i was like i gotta i want to learn about this god you know so actually in high school my non-christian friends bought me a bible because we were talking about all this essential stuff yeah they're like you know we heard that people go to the bible when you have these kind of questions so i tried reading it and like open it up it was like leviticus or something like i need some help right so coming into college i was looking at christian groups and i actually went to a lot of christian um tables so i introduced myself i was like hi you know and i think most people assume you're christian already so you know i didn't really make meaningful connections but then i get to get a flyer for welcome night and it's susan iskandar from minnesota and she's warm and friendly and engages me and i write on that flyer like i have to go to this one and then i wanted to be a teacher at that time so she walked me over to the table and i met emily kim who was in grad school to be a teacher at that time i thought she was like the coolest person so i wrote i was like must go to this group you know like cool people so i went to welcome night i was really blown away yeah by the messages so i think most of my freshman year i mostly only came for the content and then i left right after because i had other friends other activities they were really cool but i don't want to hang out with them yeah i did you know go to their place and stuff but it was just like but i always made sure i made it to the bible study and then eventually to church um so pastor ed was teaching like i just soaked everything up i thought the truths were so profound and it described life you know as i had experienced it so i didn't know what i didn't have the word sin in my vocabulary but i had experienced the effects of sin you know and so when pastor ed put a label on it and described you know our brokenness i just thought that's so true like this is exactly what i experienced and then that experience of like yeah god is like this father you know and so it took course 101 the middle of freshman year i became a christian um and then it was kind of was it like a special event or anything it was just kind of it was a sunday sunday service yeah just i forget exactly the passage you know it's one of those like like i'm ready like i'm ready like i understand um yeah and then then that that's it yeah for like did you um become christian or church was it before like what was kind of that spiritual journey like for you through college yeah i think growing up going to church i came into college uh looking for independence and freedom and kind of looking to walk away um in some ways and at least open to the idea very open to the idea but before i walked away i felt like i should at least figure out to see it um whether or not there's any merit to it and so i took course 101 and um pastor ed's messages uh they were unusual to me in a lot of ways um but i got at least one thing most of the time but the thing that struck me the most was just the authenticity with the way uh in the way that people lived out their faith and so that struck me and that kept me coming to see like there must be something here um i took a little bit longer and so i made my clear salvation decision in my junior year so it was probably kind of right around the same time since we're two years apart yeah but i think my junior year was the time where i really saw my sinfulness for the first time clearly and owned it for myself knew that i couldn't fix it on my own through just my own like ability to work around it or to stop it and then um that's when the cross became um the most meaningful to me so so you guys been doing by vocational ministry for gosh how long for you now since 2002 so that's over 20 years 22 years now yeah so i have a working a full-time job yeah what did you guys do before becoming fit like so i was i'll go first because it's not as impressive i was a teacher um and then i became a technical writer um and how i got that job was Eunice they wanted to hire Eunice she's like i can't take Eunice Kim she's like um i'm about to like go plant a church so you can't hire me but i know this sister and then i go to the job interview and on my resume it's like i wrote for our website yeah they're like you write for pastor ed i was like yeah but it turns out like they went hiring the hiring manager knew of pastor yeah because pastor spoke at a retreat for like a korean church when they were in college or postgrad so then i got the job so that's how i made the transition from teaching to writing yeah oh actually that's interesting because my first job out of college i got through genie oh oh you did i did the video side of her tech writing wow i forgot about that but yeah that's uh it's interesting it's all about it's all about who you know yeah oh i guess i should thank my dad i guess that's interesting um and then yeah sure um after college i went to law school and i worked as an attorney um most recently i worked as for the state as an administrative law judge um and yep that's what it is is it true that you would show up to like all the college events with your suit yeah like your first like your judge no no no no this is the first few years where i had to wear a suit to work every day okay and i was working long hours so right when i got out of the office i would head straight to berkeley go to campus and just participated in whatever we were doing that day and so if it was bible study i'd go to bible study in my suit if it was dining hall outreach i'd do that in my suit if it was ultimate frisbee i'd roll up my sleeves roll up my pant legs and just run out there with a lot of suits with all the freshmen yeah probably outran a lot yeah so you guys oh go now i was just gonna say funny story about the suit thing so when we first started dating we i mean i knew of him we didn't know each other that well so and he called me i was like oh sure why not because i knew him as like someone that was like a hard-working brother in our midst but anyway we go to our first date and he's like in a suit and tie and i didn't know that he wore it all the time for work you know so i'm like feeling really confident like wow like this guy's a tryhard he's trying really hard he's just trying hard and that's what she liked he must be really into me right so that so it was a good first impression it was good because you know i was kind of nervous you know and then i was like i'm feeling confident okay i think it's gonna go well were you able to tell yeah like this girl's no i was really nervous too you know right right after i did yeah and then i was like he wears a suit everywhere he goes even when he really should not be in a suit yeah that's true wow wow i think the guys listening to this podcast should take notes they should wear a suit on your first date yeah yeah so you guys well let's talk about that a little bit so your guys relationship so um best and worst date story do you guys have any fun ones hmm oh yeah worst date okay i can't mind quick you know we were i mean we were pretty in a busy season of life so like i worked a teaching job it was like a one hour commute he was at a really hard law firm and we were both busy with ministry so it was hard to like plug in time you know so there was like a stretch where it was like okay let's find a time to me just couldn't figure out time so he's like let's meet before like jcc practice right okay yeah like on saturday morning right he's like let's meet at 6 30 a.m for breakfast and i'm like i'm not a morning person so that for me that was like the worst day i'm like i never want to do this ever again i'd rather not see you let's see you at 6 30 in the morning yeah but that was saturday morning you know friend yeah i thought you were going to talk about the the the day that i proposed that was the worst no no well okay no no that was it was inconvenient but that was also the date where um yeah we had to meet for breakfast so it was like 6 30 or 7 but i had to pull the trailer for jcc practice okay so i woke up earlier pulled the trailer to willard yeah dropped it off and then went back to when i found out about that then i was like wow you know you're awesome so i dropped off this anyway yeah but then uh the day that i was going to propose okay so we went to um that you know that walkway off at the bay and bay farm yeah yeah right right along the coast and then i was like hey let's meet up you know it's like okay and then she was supposed to help i was helping the sister move and it was just me and my like suv she's like i don't have a lot of stuff i have like five boxes and i get there she has like a ton of stuff it took me like four hours and i'm moving it like by myself no elevator up no elevator up like two flights of stairs so i'm like i don't want to meet today i'm like hi i'm 20 like i just moved like right like four trips for this little girl he's like no i really want to i was like okay you know so he had no idea it was coming no i didn't know i was just like okay he must have no other time this week to meet me you know but because we got engaged it washed away the yeah yeah yeah yeah that's so funny yeah that's so funny so that's funny so you have you have any like positive stories you want to balance that out with or yeah anytime you didn't meet i'm just like i did want to ask you a little bit more about like the bivocational ministry things so um just like as a college senior what was what what made you stick around and you know decided to do ministry here and for as long as you did two decades i guess for both of you um yeah what went into that decision i think um there were a few pivotal like moments in underground that really changed my like it was a paradigm shift for me um one of them was uh going on mission trip to japan you know and um not only just going on the mission trip but the summer the summer before i went um we sent a team and and just seeing how um japan could be the most efficient orderly you know society and yet produce so much lostness and brokenness amongst its people that really struck me you know and it and and then i had you know internships in college and things like that worked with like really smart successful people and when i took a look at what their lives were really about it was like just for the weekends it was like their wine collection or something like that and in my mind i was pretty ambitious as an undergrad but i was like man am i gonna burn all of my years and energy you know just to just for like a wine collection you know and i and so i just saw the emptiness of of that kind of life and and what that would look like you know 10 20 years down the line but also seeing that really society has no other answer you know um seeing how lost uh even the japanese people are you know and japanese college students and so um at that point i personally just felt like man yeah the gospel is the hope of the world you know and so it's just something that i wanted to commit to doing and i haven't seen ministry done anywhere else like our church does you know um and so i just wanted to be a part of that you know to experience um the way that god was um reaching people um at our church um in a way that i hadn't seen in any other way and so um yeah i i was thrilled to be a part of that what year was that when you went to japan uh i went in i went the summer of 2001 was that the famous olympic center no no no no no i went for the whole summer actually oh wow so it wasn't just a two-week thing but i got to go for the whole summer i lived at uh tony sun's house oh that's when they were there yeah that was when yeah and so stefan and philip were like little yeah you know runs running around there um but we had a lot of fun and it was uh it was a really wonderful experience uh yeah so yeah i think my um choice to stay at college it was like more tenuous you know yeah i actually left so i went four and a half years in college and then i went home for a semester because to help my family out yeah um and then i wasn't sure if i was going to actually come back to our church but then i got to grad school and then i came back um but i think it was over time so you asked earlier like people we ministered to i think it was as i was doing ministry that my heart for college ministry specifically grew so you know i'm the only christian in my family and so that was like a big burden yeah um college ministry i wasn't sure like i would be really into that i love like children you know i wanted to be a teacher enjoy youth so so it wasn't the demographic but i knew that i wanted to do some kind of ministry so you know in undergrad i read about like heroes of faith and so that was always in my mind yeah i'm a christian i want to share the gospel um but yeah staying at our church serving like that was kind of like i'm not sure you know like i still had trouble with like just church life because it was just you know at the end of the day like it was not something i was used to you know for most of my life and i don't know if anyone's yeah yeah so but as i grew you know some of the first classes was one class that stands out to me is like 2014 like helen zoo casey um they were so fun like i had so much every day yeah i had so much fun with them we had like road trips and they were you know just kind of um helping them grow um really saw helped me see yeah just how um fulfilling you know sharing the gospel and leading people and then also as i got older and more mature i realized like how much was given to me i think that took me time to see um and seeing how yeah if i had not you know been like a recipient of so so much of people's sacrifices from people that ministered to me to people that just gave to the environment you know like tithe so that we could have like these home getaway homes or you know even i remember like pastor donathan giving up like harvard and that like set a new standard for me like wow he he could have done that but he's here and he's preaching and he's teaching and you know um and yeah passing on wisdom you know to people like me you know and so i think as i just matured my convictions grew um but it definitely it was kind of like i'll try it out and see how it goes for for a little while wow i really yeah i love how in both your stories sort of cover the gamut you know that there's people who like right away like i know this is what i want to do and i want to be part of that you know and you have an experience of being disillusioned by you know working life you're on a mission trip well often part of that story and then you realize wow this is what i want to do and then you got like the i'm not really sure about this there's some real things i'm not used to and i don't know and you kind of go in going maybe a year you know i'll just test it out and then your heart gets really you know captured by ministry and seeing people transform and i think um i think there's a lot there that uh everyone in our network can identify with and encourage um maybe you can speak into a little bit just a one more thing on this bivocational thing um you know uh 22 years that's a long time so what are some things that like like were challenging about it and then like got better like over time like maybe in a long-term view or or yeah just something that where you could speak to someone who's maybe in the thick of that challenge if you like it gets better you know like we're like you know encourage them a little bit you know yeah yeah oh yeah i'll be honest because i want to encourage some sisters out there you know um like i was a mess of a person in college right like my room like i had my laundry on my bed you know and then when i had to go to sleep sometimes i'd put on my desk it was like back up you know it was like i just could not keep track of my schedule like i just couldn't get life done just some guys are like this too okay yeah that does not make me feel better you know that some guys are like i'm just saying like yeah yeah that's where i started you know i don't have a lot of like discipline or habits and so going into working life becoming a mom like leading a ministry like that all catches up with you you know so i think like the hardest part is like just maintaining like an orderly life while doing ministry and leading people and meeting different needs you know um i wouldn't say that that's the hardest part because there's other hard things like you know like people break you know break your heart and like you know things like that but i think in terms of being bivocational or co-vocational and doing ministry you are busy you are busy and um there's some things that you just need to get better at with life and that's where i experienced a lot of strength like coming from the outside you know like just yeah learning to be more structured and disciplined um actually it got a lot better after we got married you know because i because he's very disciplined then you know sometimes clean up you know after me a little bit just a little bit that helped yeah yeah um yeah i think um i remember early uh when i started first started working well there was that six month period where i was like tired all the time you know because i just entered the working world even though i was 28 at the time you know i felt like i was a 23 year old you know just starting to um learn how to get into the office do all my work and you know perform okay and and all that stuff and um so i think doing that and then at that time i was um i was with calvin's peers and so leading a life group as well um and so it's cool because calvin's in the yeah yeah calvin the program and um later we led 2014 which is brian mouse yeah so it's a really neat intergenerational kind of very different than when we did yeah i guess anyway um and so to like but to get everything done and still prioritize my spiritual disciplines like there's a season where i just like skimped on that you know and it bit me in the end because i just felt thinned out and like um it just wasn't good for me you know and so i think to going back to like the getting what's important done instead of just the urgent you know like your dt never feels urgent you know um but it's so important you know and to to get into a regular rhythm and habit of making sure that i have that solitude time with god first before doing any of the other things i think that was a challenge but it got easier over time as i submitted the schedule and i just personally became more disciplined but also as i really saw the value of having those disciplines in place first you know before anything else and so i think me like i can execute things and get things done you know but do it in such a way that it becomes very mechanical you know and so to be able to like have those times where i'm engaging my heart you know while getting those things done or you know letting some things drop you know in order to prioritize kind of heart engagement you know i think that is something that was difficult in the beginning just because i thought i could do everything because i was young and i was brash you know but over time you know just seeing the reality and what i needed and what my limitations were i think that became easier over time yeah wow so you guys were at berkeley riverside apu and pomona is that right yeah are we missing any yeah yeah yeah you guys have a favorite campus hmm oh yeah i can't see that it's virtual man i love i love them all all right you don't have to tell us but tell us after the show um you want to get into the fit lit thing yeah yeah yeah so so fit lit uh lit stands for leads and training like i said and um yeah getting a year training it's a program that it's like a second time we're doing the first time was with us we were the guinea pigs and you know um and so um what he changed a lot from our program it has changed a lot it's like upgrade i don't know what that says about us but a lot changed we were beta yeah um uh why did you sign up for yeah i was curious about that because it's not like you had a good thing going you're just why make that switch now 22 years yeah yeah you know um it was a little bit of a surprise that uh we were even asked to be part of the program given our age but um you know pastor had emailed us and it was i i still kind of remember because he emailed on a sunday and i was finishing my message and i saw his email come in but i was like i cannot read this right now and then did you see the subject line you knew what it was well no i didn't i was like oh it's something important but i'm not going to look at it right now i have to preach and then she texted me she's like what do you want to do right and so we were going to talk about it right but i was like i cannot talk about it so um but i think the morning stress yeah i think the opportunity just to be trained by pestering kelly in a focused way yeah you know um uh was just an opportunity we didn't want to pass up and then we had concerns because um where pomona ministry was we just felt like we needed to be there but then rick and sue had been with us for a long time and they kind of knew what the ministry was like and and what the state of it was and so um they thought it would be okay for us to um leave pomona and be part of this program so that gave us some extra reassurance too but just uh just the opportunity to um to just surrender and to put our yes on the table and you know to um be trained because i think i personally also felt like after three years of leading pomona ministry as a bible i was right up at the edge of my leadership kind of capability you know and like um and so i felt like it was something we we needed to do as well you know so yeah it was it was good timing and um yeah so i think that's the main reason why we yeah so i had stopped working in 2017 already and working for church um and so my when we got the invite i was like wow they like actually won us that was why because i thought i just thought are you sure we were just like kind of older already anyway but i think um but prior to that i was kind of reaching um i think my just capacity like kind of a ceiling um and then as their retirement coming up yeah it was like shoot like you know like i gotta grow so i think i was mostly motivated by personal growth especially as you know in our context before we had a lot of older ones with you had a lot of heart a lot of zeal you know and i really wanted to help them grow as well but um i felt like i i need to i need to grow first and like kind of understand or just yeah just grow just grow and so yeah i didn't know we didn't really know what was gonna happen when we got here but um we were excited to be with you know pastor and kelly i think one of the reasons i actually stayed on staff for so long even when i struggled was just like meeting with them i like ministry didn't have to go well you know like i didn't have to enjoy everything but every time we had meetings or i met with them i would learn something you know about myself or about the world and just grow wiser and so i just yeah i was looking forward to that having that time again so how's it how's it been yeah and what's like what's the program like because i don't know what's the usual day yeah yeah yeah what's the day there's no usual day that's the usual there's no usual week no no there are some usual days there's like a default day okay what's the default week where a lot of times we just spend uh being available at hb for anything that needs to happen and so that in and of itself is like the wild card right because we were like last week we were anticipating oh well but so we would be doing some bible reading reading c.s lewis you know things like that those are the regular things yeah those are the regular reading always like bible um c.s lewis time and then we have our own projects by our cohorts within the fitlet program so we're project man we're doing studio nova you know helping that get launched yeah um the guys do btt also we do btt bible user training you know but like last week we got pulled into making the tent um at hb so that wasn't new yeah yeah it's like 10 hour 10 hour days yeah so yeah to beat the rain so yeah but our default is to be here at hb and kind of do some of that kind of um you know bible readings c.s lewis and btt and projects but man we've gone we've done everything from clean every cabin at jp to going to new york city and you know um trying out a lot of different ministry playbooks out there yeah you guys are going to see a lot of the country and just a lot of campuses and yeah yeah work atlanta yeah we went to new york and then during that boston northeast trip went to boston and hit yale yukon um amherst along the way and went to atlanta then we went to the midwest and uiuc and yeah madison we get a little like updates like oh the fitlets are doing uh evangelism road trip over here and there and on one hand it could seem like a lot of like just travel but like what has gone going out what has that done for your perspective on ministry and your heart like can you speak into that a little bit just oh man i i think definitely the erts have been like a highlight of my experience because you know it's not like we're not engaged in gospel sharing but you know when you're like a kind of older leader like you're not sharing the gospel that often like directly to people because you're like yeah helping the people who are doing yeah and you're doing like logistics or having meetings and counseling and things like that so i think seeing different contexts and like just sharing the gospel again and again that's one thing we all did you know um like it just reminded it just kind of brought me back to first love and like wanting to be out like yeah out in the field i think so one thing that's done for me is like yeah you know you gotta just go and like something will happen you know because i think prior to that it's like yeah you know you have your plans and you have your google doc not that that's not needed you know for like events that we do but there's this other thing that we experience where it's like you know in the gospels like jesus does it you know they don't have like google docs he's just like hey guys we're going over the lake you know like he knows there's a demoniac across the lake but like the other guys they don't know they're just you probably should not put that on the calendar yeah but that's what we experience it's like we don't know who's there but but god knows you know he knows like this random you know this like attorney walking down the street she stops and i get to share the gospel with her and she's been thinking about god even though she's from china you know we meet like another um chinese kid he's read like half the bible wow you know and so i think just experiencing that um just humbled me and just made me see again like we just need to go out there because god knows like who's he can make things happen and orchestrate situations and um you know and like calvin nestor and um our midwest trip you know we they met two people that were just ready to accept christ like who knew you know yeah yeah yeah i remember that like when we moved out to philly together that those first like that first year definitely felt like oh we're just joining in on things that god has already been doing and we just need to be willing to do that so that's really neat yeah i'm curious like as you've done these erts and i mean like we've we i think i feel like we've learned a lot indirectly from your guys erts like the lesson about hey like when you do outreach do it all together don't be on like a sad pair on the corner like so we've like really adopted some of those things but as you do that um how is it shifting your perspective about like a ministry like any ideas like when you go back into ministry and you're back on the college campus in normal capacity like any ideas like how you might do things differently or things you want to try now as as you're you know observing these campuses and going out i would i would um attempt more even if it's not like a tried and true kind of a thing you know like we wanted to put on a some kind of an event where people can come to you know but we're like man we don't even have a room how are we going to do that and so we just brought the special talk to them you know um made a handout for it and just asked people while we were firing hey you have five minutes we can sit down and talk about this topic and um and so one of the the the neatest pictures was uh when about 10 of us were on campus at the university of wisconsin and there were about 10 special talks happening right there you know in either one-on-one or one-on-two one-on-three you know things like that and so um just to try something you know on campus and to be out there more i mean that's you'll you'll you'll meet spiritually hungry people you know as you're out there so um i would make that more of a regular part of our schedule you know we'll go out there and we'll table but you know sometimes it's just flattering for an event and that needs to happen too right but to be able to go out there and you know um try a little bit more or something a little bit different to have like uh richer spiritual engagement um i think sometimes i felt like oh man it's not really gonna there's like who's gonna really stop for this or something like that but man a lot of people stopped and were engaged in kind of really rich conversations yeah yes i don't know if you've been feeling this but i've definitely been feeling this so at rutgers we've been trying to just go out you know twice a week and do outreach and definitely feel like people are more spiritually hungry like i can't prove that to you but i definitely feel it and sort of the sort of the challenge is like they're more spiritually hungry but they're still not coming to events like they're still not coming into your special talk or your bible study but there is more spiritual hunger so it's like how do we take advantage of that and i really like what you guys did and that might be part of the answer just like okay we got to do more on the spot like they have the questions let's answer right now instead of hoping to funnel them into some holding tank that we're yeah it's not just like attempt more but it's actually a fundamental different approach it's not bring them to a time where they can hear content it's like no you are the content and you go there and you go meet them because they're busy the window of opportunity is small and so you just gotta be ready right there yeah and if you just held a bunch of events you would never know that like you would never know people are more spiritually hungry because they're still not coming in any more numbers than they used to but like yeah you guys are seeing that on campus yeah and i think uh like a corollary that would be just to train more of our students too and invest a little bit more in that because they're where the students are you know so if they're equipped to answer those questions you know and things like that then um man that's that's gold i think right there you know and i think we've experienced that in a lot of ways even in our last semester at pomona where we try to do course 101 training you know to our students and then or evangelism training and then they just go and share the gospel with their friends and their friends become christian you know things like that and so we saw that kind of grow in a huge way too so yeah yeah yeah um i think one thing i would do differently is to do not is to have our staff and our students experience more ministries you know so while we've been here we've also been doing elderly care ministry so i have like a one-on-one bible study going on with like a really sharp elderly woman she's she's like she had a stroke and she's there but her mind is she's really sharp um the guys have been going to the dream center and that's been really like great for them yeah that's where you've been doing the computer training yeah yeah we go we've been going for their gospel nights oh you know and so um that's like once every term so once every six weeks or so dream center for those who don't know maybe just explain it um it's a it's a center where people who have been incarcerated kind of re-enter society and so they have housing and things like that it's sponsored by a church it's a ministry of a church and we come alongside them and provide a lot of the um skills and computer training that will help them to kind of um re-enter society because a lot of them have never yeah they've been in prison for like 30 40 years and they've never seen email or anything like that they have a hard time with a mouse um and so like a lot of our tech guys that's just something that we can kind of help them and show them what to do so yeah yeah so what what does um just to go back to close a loop like what does what do you think that people experiencing more ministries does yeah you know i haven't been able to like capture it in words um but i think what it's done from my heart is just kind of having like a a wider bigger picture of how god's at work and just having a deeper appreciation for the church too you know because we're in a very small church right and it's like mostly college and um and a little bit of youth and things like that but you know it's a very small kind of slice of reality right um but here you know we live with like richard and lauren kwan you know and so we have a window into like what happens at barnabas like all the things that she's doing like the way that she leads food you know they've been keeping up her and richard they've been keeping up with a japanese professor for years and they do a zoom bible study with him and just yeah i think what it does for me is just gives me a more of a sense of like well god is at work in all these different ways at our church and there's a lot that we can do there's a lot of work that needs to get done there's a lot of people that need the gospel and so something about that bigger perspective puts everything else in perspective you know so it's not yeah so if you're like really narrowly focused on just campus ministry and how that's going like it could start on the campus but if you narrowly focus on that your your mood your your convictions your spiritual fervor can really rise and fall just on what's happening in that world yeah world small and i think it's kind of like the way i see our staff it changes because yeah right now they're doing college ministry you know but you know i look at like our um a2k ministry for example man they are so awesome like they do so much for the kids like they we had this halloween thing and it was like our middle school kids and a2k they like it was amazing like the setup and thoughtfulness yeah you know and so i think just my perspective of like yeah how do we need to grow as kingdom workers it's not just a narrow set of like i'm doing college ministry and these are the things i need to be able to do as a college minister like it's like no no you're a minister and maybe right now you're doing college ministry but you know i want to like myself and everyone like we got to keep growing in all kinds of ways so that we can be kingdom workers in whatever context you know and so that picture of context is like way more rich for me after this year so yeah i mean it goes back to that what i said at the beginning of the podcast launching lifelong kingdom workers and so um not putting your identity in like the particular kind of ministry i'm doing but that i'm just a minister oh forever and to whoever god needs me to be and there's something very healthy about that yeah i think my experience of that because i love the fact that i am i have touch points at ecm and dream center and you know even helping out impact for a few weeks i think it gives me greater confidence in the gospel in the church because i look around and i'm like oh man when you're 75 or 80 years old you need the gospel when you're six year old yeah you need the gospel you know and i'm like oh there's so much need out there and so it just kind of elevates my own thinking of my my own life also you know and um gives me confidence in the fact that like what we need to do out there is really um something that people um really need you know um so nothing is in vain you know and we just got to keep sewing out there yeah so so speaking of other ministries and things can you tell us a little bit about studio nova before we have to wrap up here like how's it been i don't know what's going on with studio yeah just what is it and why are we diving into it how's it been yeah yeah how's it going yeah well it started with you know a lot of i everyone saw the presentation but you know school is not just like about school anymore and there's a lot of different yeah um but also the other reality is you know our kids are not learning um as much as they could be learning and now it's very clear to us because kids took an assessment and now we know where they are and they're they're you know because we don't let them watch tv and they read all the time they're very very smart they're just under challenge they're under challenge so we are trying to test them and he was like 11th grade level yeah reading at the 11th grade level yeah yeah although we probably have to strike that from that because it's confidential but yeah it's okay um but yeah but we're um so student nova it's an accredited private school um and i'm really excited about all that they're gonna learn um i think i'm also excited about like all the ways that our our kids are gonna learn in outside of the curriculum so some of the things that we have planned because the curriculum part where they're learning um and you know they're not like doing we're not the micro school yeah the micro school part they're doing their online learning lessons you know so so let me just it's a private school with an online curriculum and so the benefit is that a student will come and they'll take an assessment and then they'll have an education pathway that's kind of custom made for them kind of where they're at and like what gaps in knowledge or understanding that need to be filled and so it's a custom pattern that way and so in that way they're not hopefully they're not like super bored right as they're sitting in the classroom and so um that's one benefit you know and then um so they operate out of sac uh close by sacramento and we're going to start an alameda campus here um at hb um and so what where are we starting uh january like next month yeah oh wow right after um winter camp so we have about 20 24 25 kids um who are going to start it's going to be a micro school so it's everyone from first and then we have a first grade through we have a few middle schoolers and so they're all in one classroom kind of doing their their coursework together on their separate computers um and but it's kind of a a community feel where the older younger one room yeah one room classroom yeah exactly and so um and then after they're done with the online curriculum then we'll have enrichment classes um and everything from foreign languages to 3d printing you know yeah so we have parents um lined up to teach different things not like take turns yeah so we're teaching korean we're teaching chinese um we're teaching piano but through these things called melodicas what you can look it up it's kind of a funny instrument where you have to blow into a tube to make sound yeah yeah um basic music theory and melodicas we have a chapel hour where they're going to gain more fluency in scripture there's fun stuff too like ping pong pe there's bibliopolis so it's like it's like online private like one room house like like like schoolhouse camp yeah all together the learning time is only like a couple hours three hours yeah so the afternoon time is what we're providing and how are the kids like are they excited about this like how are they oh really they're not like they're missing regular school they don't want to do this well right now they're excited okay yeah we hope they're gonna i think they're like willing participants yeah yeah yeah yeah actually that's one thing like if their child really doesn't want to do it like that's something we want to talk to the parents about it but we have not had situations like that actually we had the opposite where it was like we only want to do first through fifth and then these older kids are like wait a minute like we want to learn we're not learning we want to do it so yeah i had this and so you guys are like the headmistress and headmaster no no no emily kim oh emily kim is like superintendent principal yeah we kind of do all the logistical yeah work so yeah gosh gosh so then we're we're highlighting this yeah to see i guess the benefit of our network is to see if there's just better education for our kids as well as just other yeah yeah okay that's kind of neat never thought never thought we'd be doing this i know we didn't know i mean it was like fit lit training but we're starting a school yeah that wasn't in the draft description i started a micro school i have one final thing before we wrap up because i think we gotta end it kind of soon it's been a lot we covered but um tell us going back back to the fit lit program i just want to hear a little bit about how it's been in terms of your your group so you mentioned you're in cohorts right um there's 10 couples nine couples nine couples and it's very different from our experience so our experience six couples it was six couples and the youngest of us was 2013 and the oldest was 2010 so it's a four-year age gap what is it for you guys it's like it's like a decade right it's 2014 thanks for highlighting that yeah yeah but how's that been like interpersonally like what do you appreciate about the other guys what what bugs you about them if you want like yeah just how's it been doing this with this kind of wild and crazy group you know like these guys josh and dj and yeah it's a lot of fun it's great it's so fun yeah i think this like intergenerational cohort of fitlets is it really has been a lot of fun i think we all bring a little bit of a different dynamic to the table but it all kind of works together and i think you know like uh you're talking about erts and i was like man there's such community creating power when we're all out there kind of doing this thing together you know and so that picture of all of us doing our little like special talks on our own um and just trying things we're like what are we supposed to do is this gonna work i don't know let's just go for it you know um yeah it just it it it really brings i think a lot of us it has brought a lot of us together um and even the day-to-day is a lot of fun so um we could be hanging from scaffolding 30 feet in the air in the cold you know or cooking breakfast at 6 a.m yeah um doesn't matter it as long as you know we have people that we enjoy being with and and have that community there then i feel like we can do uh that you know a lot of things are possible you know so yeah and it seems like you guys like have your system down for like erts like everyone kind of knows their role and like you don't even talk about it i heard like you just go on campus and it's like automatic completely in sync yeah yeah yeah after we've been doing these things for so many times until the newest idea comes and then we'll kind of figure things out you know but even that's a fun process yeah i think um the age it doesn't it i don't know that i think about it you know like there's like brian mount um dre they're like the youngest but there's things i learn you know from them ben and helen they're like the fit lit parents you know they kind of like keep track of us and like know what's going on and stuff and um but i think it just i think one thing about experiencing it together the fit lit program is it just made me um value just our church so much more in some ways because it's like when you're all in you know you have a group of people that are all in and you have the same goals and the same vision and you want to do the same thing you experience just such camaraderie you know and there's and then when there's like not you know ego in the room and like because you know we're all in the same room and it's like whether you're old or you're young like you know you're cooking breakfast yeah yeah you know it's like yeah so you're receiving truth you know like as it is and it's like but it's not a big deal you know because we're here to grow and learn and you know reach you know the world right so um in that way i think yeah kind of like in a concentrated way experience like just oneness and fellowship that i think yeah you can only have that i think in partnership with the gospel like true deep part with like years of history and shared values and all of that so yeah yeah what i'm hearing you say from that is just uh i mean i think something i experienced too infinite and since planning with a lot of the people that we are trained with you know like we planted philly together and now he's just said rutgers an hour away it's just appreciate like when so many ministers today it's just them you know and so many pastors are burning out because there's just like we actually get to do this with a lot of people and we get to do this in very close community and that's like that really is the thing that's gonna strengthen us for the like the long yeah i think i've been seeing that like we're just super lucky like no shade on other pastors i mean they're heroes like they yes yeah i'm i don't think i could do what they do on my own for sure but yeah the fact that we get to do it together it just makes it so much more just doable yeah it really um for me also um going back to your lifelong kingdom workers like this is um one of the benefits of it is being able to see someone when they were a freshman and then like like brian or calvin yeah and then working alongside them now yeah you know uh it's such a neat kind of journey to be on with them you know it only comes through covenant relationship and and common commitment you know um but man what a what a what a what a precious experience it is to be able to do that with um people for this long would your younger self have ever believed that brian matt would be a fifth day today at this time so the first time brian came over to my house right he we we had dinner we cooked dinner and he had dinner and then um i was like all right guys like let's uh can can can you guys help clean up right and i was like brian can you do the dishes and then he goes from the dining table to the couch plops down on the couch and he goes i don't do dishes we'll leave it at that draw your own conclusions that's a good place to stop there that's a good place to stop there i always have vision for people so i'm not surprised but i'm you know i don't ever say nice things about him so i'm gonna say it right now on the record i'm i'm encouraged by him yeah no i was brian mouse leader for a year or two i was my first time leading staff so i don't know what i did i probably did a lot of ministry malpractice on him but praise the lord that's all i gotta say praise the lord well thank you guys for coming on i think that was like so much uh there to unpack but um yeah thank you um tune in next time like subscribe gotta say it and uh yeah thank you guys so much thank you guys thank you