back to indexE23: Radical DAs, breaking down FB/Google vs. Australia, sustained fear post-vaccine & fan questions
Chapters
0:0 Reflecting on the controversial Robinhood interview, iterating on the show format, getting back to basics
10:52 Chesa Boudin cancelled on us, radical DAs & local prosecution in SF & LA, why criminal justice reform resonates
34:44 Breaking down the Facebook/Google situation in Australia, understanding fair use, potential saving grace for traditional media?
47:26 Vaccine update, conditioned fear sustaining post-vaccine
58:58 Fan Q&A: what the besties are investing in over the next decade, bestie anti-portfolio, biggest current portfolio risks, what would you teach every 12-year old
00:00:00.000 |
jay cal are you gonna do your trump impression we're gonna do your your okay yeah everybody 00:00:04.800 |
i'm getting my twitter no give him derangement syndrome right before we start the pod i want 00:00:09.200 |
to warm him up ted cruz this doesn't warm him up it gets him deranged get your show notes up 00:00:20.320 |
and instead we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy 00:00:26.800 |
hey everybody hey everybody welcome to another all in podcast with me today of course the 00:00:40.480 |
dictator chamath palihapitiya the queen of kin wa david friedberg and of course yeah definitely 00:00:49.760 |
the rain man is here david sachs he's an excellent driver in the driveway yeah okay boys uh 00:00:57.600 |
i guess we made it to episode 22. your intro becomes one second longer for every episode we do 00:01:03.040 |
it's just so people love it and people so laborious you know they don't they think it's so stupid i am 00:01:09.360 |
you have to understand persuasion what i'm doing is i do the same intro and it works okay we're 00:01:14.400 |
still we're still talking about the intro okay let's just see everybody's obsessed about it you 00:01:18.880 |
proved my point all right guys are we gonna dress elephant in the room the elephant in the room or 00:01:25.360 |
do we just move on to topics i will say elephant in the room after the last show um i fought very 00:01:33.760 |
hard with the three of you to not post that episode you wanted to can't you want to spike 00:01:38.800 |
the episode i wanted to spike the episode and i'll tell you why um i thought it was not good content 00:01:44.560 |
i don't think vlad said anything new or remarkable or interesting i don't think we had good analysis 00:01:48.960 |
and i think the whole thing kind of felt flat and felt like a pr stunt and i felt that truly and 00:01:53.440 |
honestly and i you know i made the case to you guys that we should cancel um obviously i lost 00:01:59.280 |
uh and i think going forward we should have a veto right but you know we can talk about that offline 00:02:03.840 |
did you quit the show or did you threaten to quit the show i threatened 00:02:07.280 |
i'm gonna after this i'm gonna propose to you my rules my ground rules for for going forward 00:02:14.000 |
one of which i think should be no more pr from jason's portfolio but um you know besides 00:02:20.240 |
that i think i might be i think i hear a bestie guestie is that calm 00:02:24.320 |
and i i don't think that we're journalists by the way i don't i don't think that the journalism 00:02:32.160 |
thing works for us i think we're like analysts and commentators and you know we have opinions 00:02:36.400 |
and so to bring someone on and try and interview them with a four-on-one format it just feels weird 00:02:40.720 |
it doesn't seem to work it doesn't create an opportunity for discourse and frankly you know 00:02:46.240 |
um when you try and do journalism in this context you either appear like you're softballing or you 00:02:53.360 |
and i think both are bad and so i think it works really well when the four of us just kind of chat 00:02:58.400 |
and analyze and shoot the and have opinions and talk and debate um and so my vote is to 00:03:04.160 |
kind of avoid doing bestie guesties unless you know it's something pretty amazing and critical 00:03:08.800 |
and we can all kind of build a dialogue with that person around a topic but um yeah so that's kind 00:03:14.160 |
of my where i'm sitting and and how i feel about it but we've had a lot of debates obviously since 00:03:19.280 |
since the last episode about it can i can i build on what you're saying 00:03:23.520 |
um you know this is like kind of like that really uh famous teddy roosevelt quote about sort of like 00:03:29.360 |
the man in the arena with the dust on his face right um i feel like all four of us are in the 00:03:34.640 |
grind doing things and i think what makes the podcast good is it's almost like there's like 00:03:40.720 |
you know in a basketball game of four quarters there's a time out and you come off the floor 00:03:45.360 |
and you can actually just take a second to observe what you're seeing 00:03:48.960 |
and then the ref blows the whistle and you go back into the game and i think 00:03:52.640 |
for me what makes this thing so fun is i feel like every friday for these two hours you know 00:03:59.840 |
it's basically the ref calls a timeout or the coach calls a timeout and we can just kind of 00:04:03.360 |
take a breath and just observe all right what's happened before we get back in the arena and so 00:04:09.120 |
you know just to your point um i don't think we're journalists and i don't think we should 00:04:13.440 |
try to be because i don't think that's the point of what this is it should be four friends talking 00:04:17.360 |
about things that are important and then to the extent that it's important and interesting for 00:04:20.960 |
other people they'll listen or not listen to what you're saying and then you can just kind of go back 00:04:21.440 |
and do what you're saying and then you can just kind of go back and do what you're saying and then you 00:04:21.440 |
can just kind of go back and do what you're saying and then you can just kind of go back and do what you're saying 00:04:21.440 |
and then you can just kind of go back and do what you're saying and then you can just kind of go back 00:04:21.600 |
and do what you're saying and then you can just kind of go back and do what you're saying and then 00:04:21.920 |
they'll listen or not listen and i think these last few weeks we got caught up a little too much 00:04:25.920 |
and you know ratings where is it ranking how can we go higher and it's that the gamification of 00:04:31.680 |
people's reactions that i think caused us you know to do that um whereas the episode before 00:04:38.240 |
i actually kind of liked because draymond is legitimately one of our really good friends 00:04:42.480 |
you know we see him we see him we see him many many times obviously less during basketball 00:04:47.520 |
season but a ton when he's outside we play poker together we all hang out together 00:04:52.240 |
So that to me I think is sort of inbounds. Last week, I think we were all supposed to be on point, 00:05:00.880 |
I'll just tell you personally for me, I had an extremely crushing two weeks of work. I was 00:05:06.800 |
extremely tired. I ended up literally unplugging and not doing anything for three days straight 00:05:11.920 |
and sleeping. I didn't even do my best even just to be either supportive or argumentative with 00:05:19.600 |
Vlad. So I don't think I got anything out of it myself. Okay, coming around the horn sacks, 00:05:23.840 |
how do you feel that episode stands on its own? Obviously, it's very polarizing. We got 00:05:28.960 |
barbecued in the comments, we got barbecued on Reddit, we got barbecued on social media, 00:05:33.200 |
but then there were a large number of people who said they really liked it. My mom, 00:05:36.880 |
Robin Hood PR, my portfolio manager. I mean, there were people who liked it. 00:05:51.200 |
But give us your candid assessment, because you weren't as hard as these other two on it. 00:05:56.120 |
Yeah, I wasn't as hard as these other two. And I do feel like that if they felt that we were soft 00:06:02.440 |
on Vlad, then they should have brought it harder. And they should have gone after Vlad and challenged 00:06:07.280 |
him more. That being said, I completely understand and agree with what Freiburg is saying that, look, 00:06:13.720 |
we're not journalists, we're not playing a game of gotcha. It's not our job to go after Vlad, 00:06:19.520 |
I think a lot of the comments on Twitter, that's what they wanted us to do. But that's not who we are. 00:06:26.560 |
It's difficult for business too, Sax. I mean, if you're attacking Vlad, 00:06:31.340 |
and then the next day, we have to go into supporting founder mode. It's kind of a bad look, 00:06:36.840 |
Yeah, I mean, it's not what we do, right? I mean, we are, like Jamal was saying, we are in the arena, 00:06:43.380 |
we're doing things, we're not critics sitting on the sidelines, pointing out, you know, what the 00:06:48.900 |
doers have done. You know, we're not critics, we're not critics, we're not critics, we're not 00:06:49.500 |
deeds did wrong, you know, and so it's not our job to run an 00:06:53.940 |
Inquisition on on Vlad, you know, and so we're not really 00:06:57.960 |
equipped to do that. I think I think freeburg is right that it 00:07:01.800 |
doesn't really make sense to have guests on the show if the 00:07:05.100 |
job is to, you know, to get to the bottom of something as 00:07:08.780 |
investigators, you know, we're not we're not investigators. 00:07:11.460 |
It was, you know, a big story, just to sort of put a cap in it 00:07:17.160 |
from my perspective. You know, I'm always supportive of my 00:07:20.480 |
guys, I try to be supportive of whoever I invest in, and I try 00:07:23.420 |
to give them the benefit of the doubt. And this is a situation 00:07:25.440 |
where, you know, people are upset, there were mistakes that 00:07:28.380 |
were made. And so I think anything other than demolishing 00:07:32.520 |
Vlad is considered by some constituency as a failure, 00:07:36.820 |
right? And so what are we supposed to do here? I can't be 00:07:39.240 |
trashing my own company that I'm an investor in and a supporter 00:07:42.240 |
of and founders who I believe in it just would. 00:07:44.420 |
Well, I think there was a moment, there was a moment 00:07:47.140 |
in the pod, Jason, where I think actually, so on the whole, I 00:07:52.060 |
thought Vlad did it did a good job in accomplishing his 00:07:54.880 |
objective on our pod, which was the same objective he had in 00:07:58.200 |
front of Congress, which was basically to run out the clock 00:08:01.580 |
without saying very much, you know, and, you know, he 00:08:04.720 |
actually, whoever prepped him for Congress did a pretty good 00:08:07.480 |
job, because he testified for five hours, and said nothing 00:08:10.200 |
quotable, you know, which which is pretty much kind of the goal 00:08:13.800 |
in that situation. It's kind of the goal for your head down. 00:08:17.120 |
Yeah, exactly. So but there was a moment in the pod last week 00:08:20.960 |
where I think Vlad got himself in a little bit of trouble. 00:08:23.300 |
Freeberg did ask actually a pretty tough question about the 00:08:26.240 |
guy in the street who who had lost all of his life savings. 00:08:29.060 |
How would Vlad respond to that? He made this claim? Well, I saved 00:08:32.420 |
that person money because I shut down trading at the high. And 00:08:36.300 |
then we pointed out No, I mean, it was a high because you shut 00:08:39.860 |
down trading, you have the causation backwards. And then 00:08:43.640 |
you you ran and said, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know, 00:08:47.100 |
you're not going to get paid for this. And then you're like, 00:08:49.200 |
well, my guy was on the floor, I gotta pick him up. What are you 00:08:52.320 |
talking about? I call the timeout. I got in there. But 00:08:54.420 |
let's Yeah, exactly. Yeah. All right, let's move on. Let's do 00:08:57.240 |
we talk about the insanely high profile guest that was planned 00:09:01.860 |
for March 5, that just canceled on? No, we should we should 00:09:05.040 |
talk to we put it on the table. Because I you know, this is the 00:09:07.620 |
other thing about protocol, just say Freeberg is, if we have a 00:09:10.620 |
guest on, you cannot just spike the guest if they took the time 00:09:14.280 |
to be on that was my unless you tell them before they come on, I 00:09:17.080 |
think it doesn't code if we don't like it. Yeah, I think they 00:09:20.640 |
get that right. None of us do this for a profession. None of us 00:09:22.980 |
are getting paid. We don't have any advertisers like, I 00:09:26.200 |
completely agree. We're not here to get a PR machine for people. 00:09:29.380 |
I mean, Vlad had his friggin PR woman sitting on the zoom call 00:09:32.380 |
while we were doing it last week. You know, I like I just don't 00:09:34.860 |
think that's a little inside baseball that got interesting. I 00:09:36.960 |
think explain what happened when Well, no, we don't have to go 00:09:39.940 |
there, Jason. I just think I just think what Freeberg says is 00:09:42.360 |
right. Like, we we do this, we don't make any money from it. We 00:09:47.060 |
We like to talk we I think we all learn from it. I think other 00:09:50.420 |
folks enjoy it. They learn from it. But I do think that 00:09:52.820 |
Freeberg's right. We're not going to be used as a show. I 00:09:55.640 |
think we're learning as this goes. I think we're learning 00:09:58.640 |
what the ground rules should be just like any other business. 00:10:01.180 |
Vlad's made mistakes, he's going to change. We've made some 00:10:04.160 |
mistakes and we're iterating and I think one positive iteration 00:10:07.300 |
that Freeberg has proposed is if any one of us don't like an 00:10:10.300 |
episode because we think it's basically moving away from our 00:10:12.800 |
values, we should be able to spike it and I support that. 00:10:17.040 |
Generally, but I don't like the idea of inviting a guest on and 00:10:20.500 |
then it doesn't go well. And then telling, you know, from our 00:10:23.460 |
perspective, it makes us look bad. And then we tell the 00:10:26.700 |
guests, well, you came out good, and we came out down, therefore 00:10:29.820 |
No, no, I don't think that's the point. I think what Freeberg 00:10:32.160 |
says is like, look, this is not for to be a marketing thing. And 00:10:35.820 |
so we're going to ask things that are exposed that are about 00:10:38.980 |
having a real conversation, where there's real honesty. And 00:10:42.980 |
if you're going to just be there and bat around as SAC said to 00:10:48.400 |
Fair enough. Fair enough. I think that's communicated ahead. 00:10:51.780 |
By the way, come with your a game. And this is a great segue 00:10:54.640 |
to talk about what actually we were a person that was going to 00:10:57.820 |
come on and realize that they probably were going to get so 00:11:00.760 |
pilloried that they basically spike themselves is yeah, they 00:11:06.460 |
opted out Chesa Boudin, the district attorney of San 00:11:09.220 |
Francisco. Tell tell the guys what happened sex. 00:11:11.620 |
Well, no, we invited him to come on the podcast. 00:11:17.000 |
was an intermediary said that she could get him on the pod. Would we like to have him on the pod? 00:11:22.220 |
We said, we discussed it. We said, sure, have Chesa Boudin on and then go from there. Sex. We 00:11:27.080 |
didn't like seek him out. He was well, okay. So he he great. So he but he agreed to be on the show. 00:11:33.200 |
And then you are scheduler got an email out of the blue, like a day or two ago saying, sorry, 00:11:38.660 |
he's not coming on the show. No explanation. Right? And that what happened? 00:11:43.760 |
I mean, so look, here's what I would say is, um, 00:11:46.980 |
Chesa, Mr. District Attorney, you don't have to come on the show, 00:11:50.760 |
but I will challenge you to a debate. Anytime, any place, any format on your policies in San Francisco. 00:11:58.440 |
So if you have, if you have the huevos to engage in a debate, I am ready. 00:12:06.360 |
And I thought Chesa was a guy who had a little bit of courage. I mean, there was that night when 00:12:11.160 |
people were discussing the situation in San Francisco and on clubhouse and he jumped into the 00:12:16.260 |
room. So he was like, I'm going to go to the clubhouse. I'm going to go to the clubhouse. I'm 00:12:16.960 |
going to go to the clubhouse. I'm going to go to the clubhouse. So I thought this was a guy who had 00:12:19.180 |
some cojones. So Chesa, if you have, if you have the chutzpah, if you have the cojones, 00:12:24.400 |
if you have the huevos, let's debate, let's talk about your policies. And by the way, 00:12:31.600 |
he's an expert. This is what he does. You know, for a living. Isn't he a defense attorney, 00:12:37.960 |
Sachs? You're going to have a, he was a public defender. He should, 00:12:41.260 |
he should mop the floor with me. I'm just some shallow tech bro. Yeah. Tech bro. 00:12:46.940 |
Tech bro. Who doesn't know anything who he can easily demonize. So I would say, come on, 00:12:51.920 |
let's go. Let's do a debate. I'll agree to whatever format you want, but we need to talk 00:12:57.140 |
about what's happening in San Francisco because crime is out of control and it's his fault. 00:13:01.880 |
Trigger the young Spielberg Rain Man song right about. 00:13:10.940 |
Should we talk about it? Let's talk about it. We should talk about what's happening in San 00:13:16.920 |
Francisco. Okay. So since, since the last pod there, there has been another victim. 00:13:22.680 |
Sheria Mas, Mas Yoka, who was a young, young man from, from originally from Kenya, who he came to 00:13:30.840 |
the United States for college, just like Hannah Abay who was killed on New Year's Eve. He went 00:13:37.500 |
to Dartmouth. All of his advisors said he was brilliant. He had a young wife and a three-year 00:13:41.640 |
old baby. He was in San Francisco for 10 days, goes out running and gets. 00:13:46.900 |
Hit gets, gets killed by another drugged out hit and run driver who had been named let's 00:13:54.940 |
say, I think it was Jerry, Jerry Oli Adams or something like that. I don't have the, 00:14:00.940 |
the guy's name, but he was arrested four or five times in the last year. And he was released 00:14:06.800 |
every single time by Buden's office. It's, it's just like the New Year's Eve story where 00:14:12.100 |
you had this repeat offender, Troy McAllister hit, you know, his wife, his wife, his wife, 00:14:16.880 |
you know, he was, he had stolen a, a car. He was fleeing another crime he had committed. He was 00:14:21.620 |
on drugs and he killed Hannah Abay and Elizabeth Platt. And this was, this was another case where 00:14:28.100 |
he was caught five times over the past year. And every single time he was not charged by 00:14:33.140 |
boot and he was just let go. And so we have this case, we have a, a district attorney who 00:14:37.640 |
doesn't wanna prosecute people. His agenda is decarceration. It's like a fire chief who 00:14:42.440 |
doesn't believe in using water. Yes. And, and. 00:14:46.860 |
all down party yeah let me challenge you with the argument he might make which i think i've 00:14:51.900 |
heard him make a few times um which is really um a position on the criminal justice system 00:14:58.700 |
not necessarily on local prosecution but really what he says is once um you know once someone 00:15:07.020 |
ends up in the criminal justice system in the united states it causes this cycle of 00:15:11.740 |
recurrence and the cycle of repeat that is very difficult to get out it basically minimizes the 00:15:16.540 |
opportunity for reform uh for an individual for a criminal to reform themselves and to have a shot 00:15:22.620 |
at being a successful member of society again in the future and the objective is find other ways to 00:15:29.500 |
to kind of accelerate reform and not use incarceration as the only tool in the toolbox 00:15:35.100 |
what is um you know what is the the argument back to him when he makes that point because i've heard 00:15:40.620 |
him make that point a number of times and how do you kind of move past that uh that point with him 00:15:46.220 |
i'm not saying that incarceration is the only answer but buden's only answer is decarceration 00:15:52.140 |
he doesn't want to prosecute anyone he doesn't want to lock anybody up and we see the results 00:15:56.940 |
immediately in this community you have these repeat offenders now killing people they should 00:16:02.620 |
have been locked up um it's you know buden's always putting forth these elaborate theories 00:16:09.580 |
this is you know the the central chronicle an article about it about why these crimes are 00:16:13.900 |
occurring and why they're happening and so i think that's a really important point and i'm going to 00:16:15.900 |
occur and he never wants to put the fault on the people who are actually perpetrating the crimes 00:16:19.900 |
as always economic desperation he just put it forward a theory that a decline in tourism 00:16:25.260 |
is causing uh people to commit more uh home invasions you know he he never wants yes this 00:16:31.340 |
was in the service school chronicle article here i'll put it up on the screen i mean the other 00:16:35.100 |
thing you left out david i'll say is and this was really you know hits home to anybody with kids 00:16:41.020 |
is a food driver for doordash not that it matters which service but was in san francisco's pacific 00:16:47.500 |
heights neighborhood which is the safest and most elite neighborhood uh in it's you know the beverly 00:16:53.900 |
hills or bel air of san francisco um and his car was carjacked with his four-year-old daughter and 00:17:01.180 |
two-year-old boy inside now of course you should not be leaving two kids in the car putting that 00:17:05.900 |
aside that mistake which i'm sure this father is suffering over but 00:17:10.700 |
he's not going to be able to get out of the car and he's not going to be able to get out of the car 00:17:12.380 |
but he needed to make deliveries obviously he made a mistake leaving the kids in the car 00:17:15.980 |
but the we all got an amber alert last week on our phones i mean this is the law level of lawlessness 00:17:22.780 |
it's turned into escape from new york level gotham city level chaos and the criminals know 00:17:29.900 |
they will not be prosecuted and this is the key criminal justice problem here if you say 00:17:35.340 |
you are not going to prosecute crime and you demonstrate to the hardest core faction of 00:17:40.700 |
the criminal justice system that you are not going to prosecute they're going to take advantage of 00:17:44.300 |
that weakness and and that's what's happening let me take the counterpoint just for a second 00:17:49.180 |
just so we can construct what the other side of the argument looks like the other side of the 00:17:53.660 |
argument says okay these folks are largely you know engaged in an enormous amount of petty crime 00:17:59.660 |
to support their drug habit right i think that's probably the and that you know underneath that 00:18:05.180 |
is just an explosion uh of opioids and fentanyl and whatnot 00:18:08.940 |
underneath that is sort of economic and social violence and i think that's probably the most important thing 00:18:08.940 |
that's happening right now is that you know the drug habit is going to be a huge problem for the people 00:18:08.940 |
that is sort of economic uncertainty that's been compounding and just basically cresting over 00:18:14.220 |
um and so folks would say okay these guys are a victim of a much broader economic malaise that 00:18:21.500 |
needs to get fixed i'm just i'm just you know you're shaking your head jason but i'm just saying 00:18:24.620 |
i think that that's where the trail of breadcrumbs grows in the counter in the counter in the in the 00:18:28.540 |
counter argument so well these are these are the types of arguments that jason makes in order to 00:18:41.820 |
his real agenda is basically radical decarceration you know he's got this this 00:18:44.060 |
decarceration you know he's got this this childhood background where his parents 00:18:46.540 |
childhood background where his parents went to jail when he was just a baby and 00:18:48.540 |
went to jail when he was just a baby and he grew up he says his earliest memories 00:18:50.700 |
he grew up he says his earliest memories are visiting his parents in jail and it 00:18:52.620 |
are visiting his parents in jail and it profoundly affected his political views 00:18:55.020 |
profoundly affected his political views and now we have to suffer through this 00:18:56.780 |
and now we have to suffer through this we're suffering for his childhood trauma 00:18:59.340 |
we're suffering for his childhood trauma here's his childhood trauma and so so 00:19:01.500 |
here's his childhood trauma and so so tramath you're right about deeper causes 00:19:03.980 |
tramath you're right about deeper causes but it doesn't 00:19:07.660 |
excuse the need to lock people up when they are dangerous 00:19:09.260 |
lock people up when they are dangerous to the community and it's not just petty 00:19:11.740 |
to the community and it's not just petty crime i mean let's go through that the 00:19:13.420 |
crime i mean let's go through that the actions he's taken as da okay so first 00:19:16.400 |
actions he's taken as da okay so first week on the job just about he abolished 00:19:18.560 |
week on the job just about he abolished the whole cash bail system okay which 00:19:21.200 |
the whole cash bail system okay which voters in november 00:19:23.120 |
voters in november just voted uh in with prop 25 to affirm 00:19:26.640 |
just voted uh in with prop 25 to affirm so voters of california want the cash 00:19:29.200 |
so voters of california want the cash bail system because it keeps criminals 00:19:31.120 |
bail system because it keeps criminals locked up what chase has said is that he 00:19:32.960 |
locked up what chase has said is that he would replace cash bail with an algorithm 00:19:35.920 |
would replace cash bail with an algorithm well what exactly is that algorithm he 00:19:38.080 |
well what exactly is that algorithm he won't explain well he won't submit to 00:19:40.160 |
won't explain well he won't submit to third party audit there is no algorithm 00:19:42.160 |
third party audit there is no algorithm they're just letting people go okay then 00:19:44.720 |
they're just letting people go okay then the next thing he did was fire seven 00:19:46.880 |
the next thing he did was fire seven veteran prosecutors in the da's office 00:19:50.080 |
veteran prosecutors in the da's office who weren't on board with his agenda 00:19:51.760 |
who weren't on board with his agenda these are people who have spent their 00:19:53.760 |
these are people who have spent their whole lives prosecuting murders rapes i 00:19:57.040 |
whole lives prosecuting murders rapes i mean hardcore crime and it takes years 00:19:59.440 |
mean hardcore crime and it takes years of experience to learn how to be a 00:20:01.520 |
of experience to learn how to be a prosecutor like that so for him to just 00:20:04.160 |
prosecutor like that so for him to just purge this office of these veteran 00:20:06.560 |
purge this office of these veteran prosecutors is a disaster for the city 00:20:09.120 |
prosecutors is a disaster for the city i've been talking to people 00:20:11.200 |
i've been talking to people who used to work in the da's office and 00:20:12.800 |
who used to work in the da's office and they tell me that the problem goes much 00:20:14.640 |
they tell me that the problem goes much deeper than that that in addition to 00:20:16.240 |
deeper than that that in addition to these seven veterans he purged 00:20:19.120 |
these seven veterans he purged over 30 prosecutors which is about a 00:20:21.200 |
over 30 prosecutors which is about a quarter of the whole office have left 00:20:23.280 |
quarter of the whole office have left under his reign because they don't like 00:20:24.960 |
under his reign because they don't like working for him so you know and he 00:20:27.280 |
working for him so you know and he complains about being short-staffed he 00:20:29.260 |
says a lot that he can't you know prosecute everyone he needs to prostitute he's so short 00:20:33.020 |
staffed the reason he's short staff is no one wants to work for him you know by the way i think 00:20:36.860 |
it's worth highlighting this guy was elected right so the the the city uh the voters in the city 00:20:42.060 |
in a runoff i understand right he won by something like 2 000 votes it was a tiny tiny number of 00:20:47.260 |
votes regardless people voted him in on a platform that he very clearly articulated and is now 00:20:53.180 |
realizing in office so there was something about that platform that i think is worth noting 00:20:58.300 |
was and is appealing uh and and probably is to a large number of people large differences right and 00:21:05.500 |
no the the the part of it that's appealing okay is that is that is that we we do believe that there 00:21:11.580 |
are too many people in prison and that a better and a better way to deal with a drug addict who 00:21:17.420 |
commits say petty theft is to send them to treatment okay as opposed to putting them 00:21:21.980 |
in prison right so i think we can all agree on that but but his agenda is so much more radical 00:21:27.340 |
than that he just doesn't want to lock people up take um take troy mcallister okay this is a 00:21:33.340 |
dangerous person who uh he was uh he was facing trial for his third strike okay he committed 00:21:40.540 |
armed robbery he robbed a store with a gun okay he was facing a third strike for that for that 00:21:47.180 |
robbery and one of the first things uh chase did when he came in was basically uh release him for 00:21:52.300 |
time served he basically pleaded that down that was someone who's facing a life sentence that is 00:21:56.620 |
the reason why hannah abe and elizabeth platt are dead is because he didn't want to prosecute that's 00:22:01.900 |
a violent offender i'm not disagreeing by the way i think like what is interesting to me is that so 00:22:07.740 |
many people um have an eye on and agree with the notion that criminal justice system needs reform 00:22:14.940 |
the problem is realizing that reform with a radical district attorney doesn't really 00:22:20.940 |
resolve to a solution it resolves to more problems on a local level here's what's good and even chase 00:22:26.380 |
has said this publicly which is like you can't just solve this problem from the da's office it 00:22:30.860 |
is a much bigger and broader problem and the radical action he's taking isn't solving any 00:22:35.580 |
problems it's creating far more and um i think it is worth noting though that there is should and 00:22:41.500 |
likely will be especially with kamala harris uh um as vice president some attempts at reforming on a 00:22:49.100 |
federal level um uh you know how how criminals are treated how the system um realizes opportunities 00:22:55.660 |
for them to reform and come back into society as productive members but to your point you lose all 00:23:01.420 |
sense of safety and security if you try and do it solely on the local level well let me let me ask a 00:23:05.980 |
question like look now we have basically political activism and judicial activism on not just the 00:23:11.740 |
right right people used to pillory trump for putting in all these you know extremely 00:23:16.220 |
conservative judges who felt they were going to just sort of like legislate their own point of view 00:23:21.180 |
um you know supreme court nominees who were going to try to overturn roe v wade 00:23:25.420 |
uh but it turns out it's happening on the left as well i guess just more at the local level 00:23:30.380 |
um how pervasive is this like meaning the issues of san francisco are these are these the same 00:23:35.020 |
issues of other cities and towns in america well i mean you've got gascon in l.a who's 00:23:42.300 |
running the exact same agenda as chase abudin he's not prosecuting third strikes he was just 00:23:49.500 |
sued by an organization of deputy da's and the judge is now requiring him to uphold the law 00:23:55.180 |
which is three strikes he will not bring third strike charges on his own he's also this is both 00:24:00.300 |
gascon and buddha now have prohibited prosecutors from attending the parole hearings of dangerous 00:24:06.540 |
convicts murderers rapists whatever and victims groups are up in arms because they need a 00:24:12.380 |
prosecutor to go there and explain to the parole board why this person does not deserve to be 00:24:16.780 |
released and so you now have recall movements forming by the way they've also done stuff like 00:24:22.780 |
take death penalty off the table they've take taken action 00:24:24.940 |
taking gang enhancements off the table they're like voluntarily they're unilaterally disarming 00:24:30.380 |
their their their prosecution teams they're taking away weapons at their disposal to lock 00:24:35.100 |
people up and this is why you're already seeing recalls forming around gascon in l.a there's now 00:24:40.380 |
a recall of uh buddh informing okay david david go back to what freeburg just said 00:24:44.860 |
they're probably not doing a bait and switch on their platform so let's just like 00:24:49.980 |
what do you think it is about what they are saying that resonates 00:24:54.700 |
with the plurality of people yeah here's the thing that resonates um and it's not that 00:25:00.140 |
again it goes back to this idea that incarceration is definitely not the only answer this is where i 00:25:05.740 |
agree the problem is budin is on the other side of it where decarceration is his only answer right 00:25:11.980 |
we need to use uh multiple weapons or tools in our toolkit here so so hold on so for example okay 00:25:18.620 |
let's take the let's take the drug addict who commits a petty theft we all agree that the drug 00:25:24.460 |
addict is a criminal and we all agree that person should go to treatment not to jail or prison right 00:25:29.180 |
a non-violent of course offender okay reason but how are you how are you going to get that person 00:25:33.580 |
to go to treatment because right now there is no leverage whatsoever to get that person to go to 00:25:38.060 |
treatment because buddhism's not bringing charges he's not prosecuting the choice should be given 00:25:44.060 |
to that person listen you can either go to jail or you can go to treatment yeah what's it going to be 00:25:48.460 |
now we have all these social services guess what nobody uses them because a hardcore addict is not 00:25:54.140 |
going to avail themselves of those services i would make the argument that we have a broader 00:25:59.500 |
bigger problem with the criminal justice system as it operates and it is deep and it is complex 00:26:04.300 |
and it is friggin awful there's a book from a few years ago that this guy named shane bauer wrote 00:26:09.500 |
i'm just trying to remember the name i think it's called american prison 00:26:13.180 |
and uh the guy goes undercover and he goes and works in a in a in a in a penitentiary 00:26:18.220 |
in louisiana um and he reports on what the conditions are like and these are these these 00:26:22.540 |
prisons that are run by private companies that are contracted by the state locally 00:26:25.980 |
and what it's like to be an employee at one of these companies and what these employees do 00:26:30.540 |
and how the prisoners are treated there is no system for reform once you end up behind bars 00:26:36.060 |
in most prisons in the united states and that is um you know he makes the argument others have 00:26:41.260 |
made the argument that is a uh has a long history that dates all the way back to slavery in the 00:26:45.900 |
united states and in some cases it's just about ineptitude 00:26:47.980 |
and in some cases about unions especially in california where we have a huge cost for 00:26:52.940 |
for corrections and for the uh the health care and the pensions for corrections officers 00:26:57.580 |
um and so there's a lot of complex competing interests in history that relates to why this 00:27:02.620 |
criminal justice system doesn't largely work on a moral and ethical basis as we might all kind of 00:27:09.180 |
you know wear our hearts and look at like at how things are working and so the problem is 00:27:13.500 |
everyone sees this or a lot of people will see this voters will see this system 00:27:17.740 |
treating people poorly being inept being corrupt and they want to be racist and they want to fix it 00:27:23.660 |
and the way they fix it is they see a guy who shows up and he's like i'm a sledgehammer 00:27:27.580 |
and i'm going to fix it i'm going to take care of all these people and the reality is when you try 00:27:31.580 |
and take a shotgun and shoot it inside of a room it's going to cause more problems than good and i 00:27:36.300 |
think that's really what he is he is a manifestation of the anger of voters and the anger of people 00:27:41.740 |
that look at how complex and racist the system is and how difficult it is to resolve these problems 00:27:47.500 |
and we're all looking for a simple big hammer answer and he's got the biggest mouth around 00:27:51.420 |
and the biggest hammer and that's why people vote for him all right and then we'll wrap it up absent 00:27:56.540 |
a few uh words specifically racist if you took that out you could use that entire statement you 00:28:01.340 |
said and describe trump as well meaning the left and the right are moving to these polls 00:28:07.420 |
where it's all about authoritarian sort of strongmen 00:28:12.060 |
at the federal state local level folks to your point david that just want to go and take a sledge 00:28:17.260 |
hammer to things and depending on your political beliefs or depending on the biases or depending on 00:28:22.940 |
your life lived you're going to gravitate to these two poles and what's crazy is over the 00:28:28.380 |
next 20 or 30 years these polarizing figures will become crisper sharper smarter you know 00:28:37.100 |
they'll find a way to foment all of all of the support without any of the long tail 00:28:43.100 |
shittiness that trump figured out like trump was you know he's like a beta test of an 00:28:47.020 |
idea right he was like version 0.1 wait till we see version 1.0 of the american strongman or strong 00:28:54.620 |
woman it's really going to be scary well yeah and this is this is a guy who um 00:28:59.740 |
was a fan of of hugo chavez long after he revealed himself to be a strongman 00:29:05.660 |
intent on ruling for life and so yeah he is very much in that mold he is a sledgehammer 00:29:12.140 |
to the system but but look i think and and the problems are big and complicated 00:29:16.780 |
but look we all have a role to play the reformers have a role to play public defenders and defense 00:29:22.220 |
attorneys have a role to play and the district attorneys and prosecutors have a role to play 00:29:26.700 |
and the problem we have right now and the role of the district attorney is to prosecute i don't 00:29:31.260 |
think that this by the way sax is a very difficult problem to solve i think there are just so many 00:29:37.100 |
misaligned incentives it's very clear that we don't try to reform people when they go to prison 00:29:43.980 |
and that there's a weird incentive when it's a for-profit or a for-profit or a for-profit or a 00:29:46.540 |
for-profit prison and the customers and the revenue is based on how many people you have in 00:29:50.780 |
the prison so if we just get rid of that there's no private prisons where people have an incentive 00:29:56.700 |
to keep people in there and then if we made treatment free for everybody and had over 00:30:01.740 |
capacity of treatment centers and then we look at the drug schedule and say these are the drugs 00:30:06.540 |
that are not co these are the drugs that are not harmful and these are the drugs that are 00:30:10.220 |
really really really harmful we're looking at a fentanyl issue like it's a 00:30:16.300 |
cannabis issue and that that's drugs you know cannabis versus fentanyl is like a nuclear bomb 00:30:23.740 |
versus like a slingshot there's no comparison between these two things right and but here's 00:30:30.380 |
the thing no one's going to treatment when they're not forced well of course right but there's no 00:30:35.260 |
treatment to go to maybe the wait for treatment is six no no that's not true that's not true 00:30:40.060 |
in a lot that's not true we we have a lot of social services that aren't being used there 00:30:43.740 |
are there is a lot of treatment available people don't want to go to the drug store and they're 00:30:46.060 |
not going to be able to get treatment unless they really want to go to the drug store and they don't 00:30:48.060 |
want to do it unless they really have to let me bring it back to where we were before maybe the 00:30:50.060 |
right thing is to actually have a bunch of these sledgehammer folks go off for the next 10 or 20 00:30:56.940 |
years you know the trumps and the chess of buddhins maybe they're all the same and maybe 00:31:01.020 |
what we're all just saying is enough's enough this system doesn't work so let's just tear it down 00:31:06.460 |
every single brick of it brick by brick at the local state and federal levels 00:31:10.540 |
all i'm saying is um just i just want to get your reaction to that statement guys maybe maybe that's 00:31:15.820 |
what people are that that is what budin is doing is he is deconstructing the district attorney's 00:31:20.860 |
office from the inside he is destroying it he is not bringing charges against people 00:31:25.420 |
he's driving away all the veteran prosecutors but two he's bringing in he's bringing in all 00:31:30.060 |
his he's bringing in his own people who all were public defenders and have that mindset 00:31:35.020 |
and people are dying look we can see the results right now in the streets innocent people are 00:31:40.380 |
dying hannah abe elizabeth platt sharia it's an emergency but to chamath's point is there any 00:31:45.580 |
validity sacks or friedberg to the burn it all down cause chaos and then people come in and say 00:31:51.740 |
you know what that's not gonna this needs to be fixed let's have a new one discussion will nuance 00:31:55.980 |
be added to this discussion sacks we need to improve things incrementally okay you're not 00:32:00.540 |
going to make things better by dismantling the whole district attorney's office i mean come on 00:32:05.260 |
we need to improve things incrementally yeah i mean look everything looks exponential until 00:32:09.340 |
it cycles back so you know you're only going to have so much um evolution to gotham 00:32:15.340 |
in san francisco until enough people put their hands in the air and say okay you know time for 00:32:20.700 |
a change let's go back and let's start fixing this they are they are saying that that's why 00:32:25.660 |
we're having that i mean there's a recall chesa boone movement flexing a muscle and making it 00:32:30.060 |
stronger i think you know we're learning a lot about what approaches to criminal justice reform 00:32:34.860 |
work and what approaches do not work and it is clear that a local only non-prosecution position 00:32:40.300 |
is not going to work with respect to both criminal justice reform and the satisfaction of the society 00:32:45.100 |
at large um and we're realizing that and i think we we are inevitably i mean there's so many people 00:32:49.260 |
that are up in arms we are inevitably going to cycle back the other way at some point very soon 00:32:53.180 |
here yeah and honestly i think you guys are over intellectualizing this a little bit you know when 00:32:58.540 |
when sharia uh died because he got hit by by that repeat offender they asked his uh wife 00:33:05.500 |
who's responsible for this she said very clearly the d.a that is who's responsible and she's right 00:33:12.940 |
let's stop over intellectualizing this i know that's a good thing but i think it's a good thing 00:33:14.860 |
to do and i think it's a good thing to do and i think it's a good thing to do and i think it's a 00:33:15.580 |
good thing to do and i think it's a good thing to do and i think it's a good thing to do and i think 00:33:16.220 |
it's a good thing to do and i think it's a good thing to do and i think it's a good thing to do 00:33:17.340 |
frankly people like chesa pray on that because they can kind of obscure what they're doing 00:33:23.660 |
with you know some nice sounding obfuscations nice sounding words but the reality is he's not 00:33:29.740 |
prosecuting the way he needs to we got to stop this yeah and it is possible to have nuance 00:33:35.660 |
and to hold multiple ideas in your head at the same time david you could there's a practical 00:33:39.260 |
reality too people cannot murder people people cannot drive in cars and run around the streets 00:33:44.620 |
red lights on fentanyl while saying the criminal justice system is incredibly biased and racist and 00:33:50.380 |
people who are of color in texas you know wind up in jail for five or ten years for selling a bag of 00:33:56.060 |
weed and then we're investing in companies that are making weed gummies or people are buying stock 00:34:02.300 |
in weed companies at the same time you can't have one person who's a black teenager in texas going 00:34:08.860 |
to jail for decades for doing what somebody in california or seattle or canada is getting an ipo 00:34:14.380 |
for i mean this is a fundamental injustice in the world and you're right that's something that chesa 00:34:19.260 |
prays on but there must be nuance here where we look at each individual situation say what are 00:34:24.460 |
the ways to solve the problem surgically not with a shotgun to david freeburg's point but with maybe 00:34:30.300 |
a scalpel and a and a sniper rifle do we want to move on to questions from our audience because 00:34:35.260 |
they submitted hundreds of questions or do we want to move on to the australian news 00:34:38.700 |
and facebook backing out of publishing news if that's a good thing or a bad thing let's end with 00:34:43.420 |
the q a i think you're going to have to do that i think you're going to have to do that i think you're 00:34:44.320 |
going to have to do that i think you're going to have to do that i think you're going to have to do that sacks what the is going on with 00:34:46.260 |
sacks what the is going on with facebook and australia and climate change and this is 00:34:49.580 |
facebook and australia and climate change and this is insanity yeah so i think what's going on in 00:34:52.380 |
insanity yeah so i think what's going on in australia is is contemplating a law that would 00:34:55.660 |
australia is is contemplating a law that would require facebook and google and i think just those 00:34:58.100 |
require facebook and google and i think just those two companies to essentially pay royalties for 00:35:01.580 |
hyperlinks to to to news publications and i think this is mostly at the behest of some powerful 00:35:10.020 |
uh newspaper magnates down there i think like rupert murdoch and i love the way you say magnates 00:35:15.380 |
well they are i mean you know um and so uh it but but this issue is going to be very closely watched 00:35:22.980 |
by europe and maybe even the us um it's basically a tran like a a wealth transfer from google and 00:35:30.100 |
and facebook to the traditional media and to traditional publishers um this is an issue where 00:35:38.900 |
i actually um side with with zuckerberg and facebook on this i mean i kind of throw up a 00:35:44.660 |
little bit in my mouth saying that but um uh but uh no but look tim berners-lee has come out and said 00:35:51.220 |
that it could really interfere with the open internet and the worldwide web if you start to tax 00:35:57.700 |
hyperlinks i mean historically hyperlinks and the titles on hyperlinks were um were were fair use you 00:36:07.940 |
could you could use those things without violating somebody else's copyright or need to pay them a 00:36:12.980 |
royalty and so i think that it's it's bizarre to me that that facebook and google wouldn't now be 00:36:18.580 |
able to use hyperlinks and i'm kind of worried about where that goes and uh you know well facebook 00:36:25.140 |
facebook said that they're not going to publish links now for australian news and then but then 00:36:30.020 |
they followed that up with they were also going to start uh dismantling any anti-climate change 00:36:37.060 |
content i don't know if that's just just in australia well there's labeling so there's 00:36:40.180 |
another thing going on which is they've decided now to label any posts involving climate change 00:36:45.460 |
which is part of the whole censorship debate and um and so yeah i mean 00:36:49.860 |
well it's separate but related in the sense that the traditional media is cheering on 00:36:55.700 |
censorship but then when facebook essentially uh censors these links because they don't want to 00:37:01.380 |
pay royalties to traditional media then the traditional media is up in arms and so they're 00:37:05.940 |
very selective in how they how they view these issues my principle is very consistent which is 00:37:11.940 |
i want an open internet i'm against censorship in all of its forms and i and i you know and 00:37:17.540 |
i'm worried that this new australian law could really lead to some lead to an overall reduction 00:37:24.900 |
here's what's really i think going on is that with fair use the doctrine of fair use it's a 00:37:30.820 |
four-part test uh you're a lawyer obviously you know all this sax but to sort of educate people 00:37:35.140 |
in the audience who don't there's no specific uh number of characters no specific percentage of the 00:37:42.020 |
original work that you uh can use you to clear yourself of fair use fair use is a test when it 00:37:48.740 |
goes before a judge a judge looks at this four-part test the percentage of the work you used is the 00:37:53.460 |
public confused you're not going to be able to get a fair use of the original work you're going to be 00:37:53.620 |
able to get a fair use of the original work you're going to be able to get a fair use of the original 00:37:53.620 |
work you're going to be able to get a fair use of the original work you're going to be able to get a fair 00:37:53.620 |
public confused? Is there some educational or criticism version 00:37:58.520 |
of it? So if you were to use 10% of this podcast, and you were to 00:38:02.800 |
wrap it with, you know, put us in a picture window, and you 00:38:06.440 |
were 50% of it, there was no confusion that you were 00:38:08.500 |
commenting on this, that would be fair use. Or if you were to 00:38:10.700 |
use it in educational system, and if you were monetizing it. 00:38:13.720 |
Now, if you were to just clip our pockets, like this one 00:38:17.560 |
website, clip the podcast that made 60 clips of it took our 00:38:20.740 |
file and I sent them a cease and desist action said, Hey, don't 00:38:23.360 |
do this. We're doing it ourselves. They fought us. They 00:38:25.400 |
said, we're fans. And I said, I don't care if your fans are not, 00:38:27.400 |
you're not linking back, you're not giving us credit. And you're 00:38:30.380 |
doing 60 clips. If you want to do one or two clips, and you 00:38:32.680 |
want to comment on it, that's fine. But you can't take all 60 00:38:35.780 |
clips and make a 60 clip version of this. And so fairness is in 00:38:41.180 |
the word fair use. The problem with Zuckerberg and with how 00:38:45.360 |
Google has used journalists content is they are clipping out 00:38:50.420 |
specific sections of it and putting it in something called 00:38:53.100 |
one box on Google. So many of you might have said how many 00:38:56.580 |
people you know how many pounds are in you know, whatever or 00:39:01.080 |
what time is this TV show on and then the content that was made 00:39:04.680 |
by the ringer or the New York Times gets clipped and they put 00:39:08.460 |
just that section David with an algorithm and they give you the 00:39:11.460 |
answer. So you don't need to go visit that website. This is 00:39:15.240 |
tipping over into what I would call unfair use because you're 00:39:18.120 |
okay, eliminating the person linking now let me finish. Yeah. 00:39:23.040 |
URL and you didn't pull the headline, you didn't pull the 00:39:25.320 |
abstract, you didn't pull a photo, that would be fine. There 00:39:28.740 |
is a very easy solution to this, which is if you want to pull the 00:39:32.640 |
link and the headline, you pay $0. But if you want to pull 00:39:37.140 |
anything else, 100 characters, etc, you need to get a license 00:39:41.580 |
from that person, unless you are doing actual criticism. So 00:39:45.300 |
there's nothing to stop anybody in Australia right now from 00:39:48.320 |
taking a screenshot of a New York Times story, or an 00:39:52.980 |
newspaper story and writing some commentary on it, you just 00:39:55.680 |
can't wholesale take everything. And so what we're seeing here is 00:39:58.980 |
a real time negotiation between private parties into what is 00:40:02.520 |
fair. And I think Google has a really rich history of sharing 00:40:06.900 |
revenue. The App Store, they give 70% to app developers, 00:40:10.440 |
YouTube, they give 55% to creators. And with AdSense, they 00:40:14.340 |
let you put AdSense on your website, and they give you 68 00:40:16.980 |
cents on the dollar or something in that range. They never 00:40:19.180 |
actually disclose the exact percentage. But that's what I'm 00:40:21.600 |
Facebook has given $0.8 million to the New York Times, which is 00:40:22.920 |
a huge amount of money. And they're giving $0 to Instagram 00:40:26.520 |
users $0 to WhatsApp users $0 to Facebook folks, they're too 00:40:29.820 |
greedy. And what Facebook needs to do is either not use the 00:40:33.540 |
content, or come up with some reasonable payment and come to 00:40:36.780 |
an agreement with these folks who are now banding together. 00:40:39.540 |
And they're realizing the traffic we get from Facebook and 00:40:43.200 |
Google is not worth what they're taking away from with us, which 00:40:46.860 |
is all that revenue that you know, they earned in the free 00:40:49.980 |
market. And so this is a free market debate. And I think the 00:40:52.860 |
reason why I'm saying that is because I think it's a good way 00:40:55.320 |
to get people to give away some of the money that they're getting 00:40:57.720 |
out of it, to a certain extent, and let the free market work, 00:41:00.120 |
which is all publishers should get together in the United 00:41:02.340 |
States and confront Facebook and say, pay us, unless you use 00:41:06.660 |
But Jason, I think these things are interconnected, though, 00:41:09.300 |
right. On the one hand, if you're, if you have an economic 00:41:12.400 |
stake in distribution of content, but then you're also 00:41:16.240 |
then going to decide under, you know, an opaque definition, what 00:41:22.800 |
purest form definition of a publisher. Right. And I think it 00:41:27.000 |
just becomes a very treacherous place for both Facebook and 00:41:33.120 |
Yeah, no, you're right. Google's paying for it. Facebook's decide 00:41:36.900 |
not to but Facebook, they said something like only 4% of their 00:41:41.400 |
their their posts involve this kind of content. So it's just 00:41:44.880 |
not a big deal for them the way it is for for Google. 00:41:47.400 |
Well, I think it is a big deal for Facebook. They're just 00:41:49.620 |
trying to make a point here because Zuckerberg's Yeah, yeah. 00:41:52.740 |
They're being they're being they're being overly heavy handed 00:41:55.860 |
in their response. There's no question about they're they're 00:41:57.900 |
throwing their weight around. It doesn't look good. But I'm not 00:42:00.420 |
defending Facebook. I'm defending the principle. I mean, 00:42:02.580 |
look, if this Australian principle were used, you wouldn't 00:42:04.980 |
have the drudge report, you wouldn't be able to create a 00:42:09.180 |
No, you could if it was commentary. You could put the 00:42:12.120 |
link and write commentary. It's when you just rip the links 00:42:14.700 |
people are objecting understood ripping the links without any 00:42:17.520 |
commentary. Judge report re rewrites the headline puts his 00:42:21.960 |
He would never get caught up in that. Yeah, I think that's a 00:42:22.680 |
good point. Yeah, I think that's a good point. And the 00:42:23.180 |
people who are objecting to this are the people who are the people 00:42:23.700 |
who are the people who are the people who are the people who are 00:42:24.120 |
the people who are the people who are the people who are the people 00:42:24.660 |
who are the people who are the people who are the people who are 00:42:25.100 |
the people who are the people who are the people who are the people 00:42:25.560 |
who are the people who are the people who are the people who are the people who are the people who 00:42:26.100 |
object. What they're objecting to is taking the photo, taking 00:42:28.080 |
the first paragraph, and the the this the synapses is 30 or 40% 00:42:33.500 |
of the value. And so Facebook is a better and Twitter is with 00:42:37.460 |
their algorithms are better front pages than the New York 00:42:41.600 |
Well, why isn't this applying to Twitter, then? 00:42:43.440 |
I think it will ultimately, they'll go there as well. I 00:42:47.160 |
think this will become the test case, which is if you want to 00:42:49.620 |
take more than just the headline, and like, you know, 00:42:53.820 |
basically, that's it, or the URL, if you want to have that 00:42:57.560 |
little snippet, pay us, pay us something, it doesn't have to be 00:43:01.400 |
a lot. But this could actually solve if these networks that are 00:43:05.720 |
making 10s to hundreds of millions of billions of dollars, 00:43:08.480 |
if they just said, you know what 1% to the news organizations to 00:43:12.780 |
keep them viable, just like anybody else would pay in a 00:43:17.020 |
terrestrial. Why is why is the Australian government setting 00:43:20.080 |
the price? And why are they only applying this to Google and 00:43:23.860 |
Well, I think they're going to go right down the line. I think 00:43:25.900 |
it's just a starting point. But to my point, I said earlier is I 00:43:28.240 |
don't think the government needs to do this, right? I think the 00:43:30.340 |
news organizations on mass should get together and put 00:43:33.500 |
their foot down and say no. And if they would get paid, 00:43:36.640 |
it sounds like what the government should do is clarify 00:43:39.520 |
what fair use entails. And then maybe it's just maybe it's a 00:43:43.600 |
link plus a title. I mean, look, it's never just a link, right? 00:43:46.880 |
link. Plus the snippet plus the work. Yeah, exactly. Yes. So it 00:43:51.500 |
is the issue. Right? So fine. So the government should clarify 00:43:55.700 |
what fair use is. And then if Google and Facebook or whoever 00:43:58.120 |
want more, they got to go negotiate for it. Exactly. But 00:44:01.380 |
but Australia is doing more than that. They're setting the price. 00:44:04.500 |
And they're limiting their overreaching policy just to 00:44:07.500 |
Google and Facebook because they know that if they applied it to 00:44:10.400 |
by the way, we do that we already do this in the United 00:44:12.560 |
States, David with local carriage of news organizations on 00:44:16.740 |
the international TV. So we already have we already mix it 00:44:20.160 |
up with the FTC doing this with licenses and the public good. 00:44:24.480 |
I think the other thing that you know, is going to happen with 00:44:27.420 |
all of this is like on the other on the other side of this, the 00:44:30.600 |
actual media organizations themselves that theoretically 00:44:33.480 |
could benefit from this are frankly just going out of 00:44:36.540 |
business anyways. There's a, you know, there's a Wall Street 00:44:39.960 |
Journal alert for the owner of the LA Times who's about to sell 00:44:43.740 |
the times like, it's very likely that the times in four or five 00:44:46.600 |
years, it's going to be a lot of money. And so it's going to 00:44:48.940 |
be a lot of money. And so it's going to be a lot of money. 00:44:50.320 |
And so it's going to be a lot of money. And so it's going to be 00:44:51.100 |
a lot of money. And so it's going to be a lot of money. And 00:44:51.520 |
so it's going to be a lot of money. And so it's going to be 00:44:52.060 |
a lot of money. And so it's going to be a lot of money. And 00:44:52.600 |
everybody's just going to be an individual person, blogging and 00:44:55.380 |
tweeting whatever opinion they want. Right? So there'd be no 00:44:59.300 |
money to pay anybody because it won't really matter. But what 00:45:03.000 |
will be left is then these rules on arbitration of fact and 00:45:06.100 |
fiction. And I think that that's where we're going to end up 00:45:08.220 |
that's going to be a crazy place. Because then those folks 00:45:11.400 |
those folks then really are the puppet masters. 00:45:13.700 |
Yeah, I agree that these traditional publications have 00:45:17.520 |
like a fundamental business model problem. And it's not 00:45:20.580 |
going to be solved. Like I think there's a like a misplaced 00:45:23.460 |
blame on Facebook and Google. I mean, the fundamental problem 00:45:27.100 |
with all these publications are you go search for a news article 00:45:30.060 |
on something and there's like 10 versions of the same thing, or 00:45:33.240 |
more 100 versions. And you know, when when newspapers we saw 00:45:36.800 |
1000s of newspapers all across the country, and they had a 00:45:41.640 |
But once it all got digitized and moved online, you realize how 00:45:44.580 |
much redundancy there was you have 1000s of reporters creating 00:45:47.860 |
the exact same thing. And there needs to be consolidation, it 00:45:52.560 |
Not only that, but a point we made last time, which is, you 00:45:56.100 |
know, facts have largely commoditized or most facts, 00:45:59.280 |
like, you know, remember, we used to open the newspaper and 00:46:01.980 |
look at what the stock market prices were, we opened the 00:46:04.600 |
newspaper and look at the sports scores. We looked at what 00:46:07.180 |
happened in this place in this place, facts about events, facts 00:46:11.340 |
the prices of things, facts about sports scores, that's all 00:46:14.700 |
completely commoditized. I mean, that's like 90% of the content 00:46:17.360 |
of what people used to read the newspaper for has gone online. 00:46:20.300 |
And so as we talked about last time, newspapers and 00:46:22.880 |
publications of the like have largely moved into, you know, 00:46:25.980 |
different sorts of narrative. And, you know, it's created a 00:46:29.500 |
marketplace that has a lot more competition, because anyone can 00:46:33.820 |
write that, as we were seeing with substack and medium and 00:46:36.760 |
as we're seeing with our own podcast, we're seeing with our 00:46:40.580 |
this feels to me like, you know, I went to a media 00:46:43.840 |
conference back in 2008. And there was this huge battle 00:46:49.040 |
between Google and Viacom. And I was at the conference, and I 00:46:55.040 |
think Larry Page is on stage or someone what or Eric Schmidt was 00:46:58.400 |
on stage and the Viacom CEO got up and he's like, when are you 00:47:00.920 |
going to start paying us for our content? And I think that that 00:47:04.700 |
and he really screamed at him in a room of like 800 people. And I 00:47:08.060 |
feel like that same kind of point of view has 00:47:10.480 |
persisted until there's finally some legislation that they feel 00:47:13.540 |
kind of gets them justice. Meanwhile, the world has passed 00:47:15.860 |
them by. And, you know, I think this, this will be kind of some 00:47:19.600 |
transitory legislation that ultimately the content is going 00:47:23.680 |
to democratize anyway, and the content creation is going to 00:47:26.260 |
last topic for me, because I really want Friedberg's answer 00:47:29.440 |
to this, because I also just saw an alert, how the federal 00:47:32.620 |
government is opening up a vaccination site in Miami Dade 00:47:35.360 |
County actually saw Francis Suarez retweeted. What the hell 00:47:42.700 |
I said it in December, and I tweeted about it. And I've 00:47:47.380 |
repeated it multiple times since that the US has enough supply to 00:47:52.000 |
vaccinate pretty much anyone that wants to get vaccinated, 00:47:54.760 |
because we are producing and delivering three to 4 million 00:47:58.000 |
doses per day in the US right now. And there is a just a 00:48:03.040 |
fundamental issue, especially like I mean, look at California, 00:48:05.440 |
you know, they haven't opened up, quote, unquote, 00:48:07.480 |
vaccination to people outside of tier or what they're called 00:48:10.240 |
tier one a. And so this is much more of a kind of policy issue, 00:48:15.400 |
then an administrative issue than a supply and demand issue, 00:48:19.940 |
there's enough people that want the vaccine, and there's enough 00:48:22.000 |
vaccine to just let people get fucking vaccinated. And so I 00:48:26.260 |
feel like the market forces are now kind of converging with 00:48:30.040 |
policy a little bit more than they were a month ago. And the 00:48:33.060 |
policymakers are no longer fighting and complaining about 00:48:35.380 |
supply and complaining about constraints. You know, we've got 00:48:40.240 |
and we're still fighting for the vaccine. So we're not really 00:48:43.420 |
fighting for the vaccine. But the amount of money that's being 00:48:45.760 |
wasted, by the way, in this process makes me want to vomit 00:48:48.340 |
every time I read about it, that's a whole another separate 00:48:50.380 |
issue. But it feels to me like we're probably May, June, when 00:48:54.040 |
enough people are vaccinated that we can have, you know, a 00:48:57.100 |
circumstance where people are going to fly without masks and 00:48:59.200 |
be comfortable doing so. But I'm sure there will be these over, 00:49:01.740 |
you know, constraining rules around what people can and can't 00:49:04.480 |
do in public for a very long time, like I mentioned, what 00:49:06.840 |
happened. I do want to say one thing that I've noticed, we were, 00:49:09.780 |
I was talking to a friend who got vaccinated. And I was like, 00:49:14.700 |
he said, This is my first time playing poker with people. And 00:49:16.860 |
I was like, Well, you got vaccinated, like, why aren't you? 00:49:19.020 |
He's like, Well, I don't know if other strains are going to get 00:49:21.000 |
me or, you know, if this thing's evolving, and other people are 00:49:23.400 |
going to get sick. And if you think about what's happened over 00:49:26.940 |
the last year, people have been conditioned to be afraid. And so 00:49:30.600 |
even though we're getting vaccinated, even though this 00:49:32.880 |
thing is moving and working, I'm concerned that we're not going 00:49:35.160 |
to end up in a more civil state schools aren't opening. People 00:49:39.320 |
People aren't doing stuff, even after vaccinations and science 00:49:42.260 |
and data shows that these things are okay, this in Florida, 00:49:45.020 |
maybe there's maybe there's some cases of it. But what I'm saying 00:49:48.640 |
is like, you know, the human subconscious gets trained first, 00:49:52.040 |
and then our conscious mind rationalizes what we feel. We've 00:49:55.220 |
all now been trained over the past year to be very afraid. And 00:49:58.880 |
then we all come up with these rational excuses about why I 00:50:02.480 |
can't do x, y, and z. It's like, but you've been fucking 00:50:05.120 |
vaccinated. You're fine. Like, all the data, all the science is 00:50:08.860 |
whatever you want to do. Go into a nightclub. Sweaty next to 00:50:15.860 |
Friedberg. Yes. Tell us about the throbbing nightclub. 00:50:20.800 |
It's like that scene from Good Will Hunting. Remember when we 00:50:22.940 |
talked to the psychologist, he's like, tell us about your rave 00:50:27.700 |
Throbbing rave, give up to the mob, pulsating bodies and 00:50:34.220 |
Did the Molly just kick in Friedberg? Did you drop a Molly 00:50:38.400 |
I think so. But my point is, like people are really afraid. 00:50:41.260 |
And I think I just got the best idea for an episode. The biggest 00:50:44.520 |
concern I have is frankly less about are we going to get 00:50:46.480 |
vaccinated? I feel like the convergence between market 00:50:48.420 |
forces and government nonsense is now going to allow us to all 00:50:51.780 |
get vaccinated. But she was really going to be like, how do 00:50:54.900 |
you break through these rules and the fear that basically I 00:50:58.080 |
want, but I don't understand where where are the max 00:51:00.780 |
vaccination sites in California and who's eligible? Like, why 00:51:04.200 |
aren't we just making this thing like a drive through we should? 00:51:10.100 |
We all have absolute violent agreement that California is so messed up with respect to how we're 00:51:14.240 |
vaccinating. We have so much supply. We're sitting on half our friggin supply right now in California. 00:51:18.800 |
30 million vaccines sitting on shelves. We are now at 75% deployed 80% 00:51:23.840 |
California's got like four or 5 million vaccines sitting in storage. 00:51:26.720 |
It should be a drive through and you just get in line and you go and 00:51:29.660 |
some places we're doing is in you know, but what we're doing now is you got to schedule. 00:51:35.660 |
Because you first you got to qualify, then you got to schedule an appointment. 00:51:38.080 |
And then the the clinic or whatever is only open from nine to five. 00:51:41.800 |
And so like how many doses they really administer when you got to make an appointment probably one every half hour. 00:51:46.840 |
So maybe they get through 16 people a day or something like that. 00:51:51.100 |
Yeah, and they get fined a million dollars and lose their medical license if they inject the wrong person. 00:51:56.380 |
So I mean, you're talking about 16 people per day at a site when they could be doing a couple of hundred. 00:52:03.340 |
Well, Johnson and Johnson is coming and that's refrigerator stable, right? 00:52:10.860 |
But let me go back to Freiburg's point about when will life get back to normal. 00:52:14.640 |
I'm not as pessimistic as you are, Dave, about this idea that life won't go back to normal. 00:52:19.680 |
And part of the reason why is I'm seeing so much outrage about school closures right now. 00:52:24.360 |
California is one of the only states in the country that still completely closed all the schools and people are absolutely up in arms. 00:52:32.460 |
I'd say it's as big an issue as this exploding crime issue. 00:52:37.760 |
It's a big issue in the cities and school closures is the big issue in the suburbs. 00:52:41.900 |
And if these two things don't turn around, I think Gavin Newsom is going to get recalled. 00:52:48.740 |
But I mean, my point was like our wealthy conservative, you know, friend that lives in Florida was afraid to go do stuff even after he's been vaccinated. 00:52:59.840 |
And I think that's what's permeated everywhere. 00:53:04.640 |
You know, if there's a shark attack, you know, at Half Moon Bay or whatever. 00:53:07.600 |
You know, like, you know, there's a shark attack. 00:53:09.100 |
You know, it's like, oh, my God, I'm going to go to the hospital for a couple of weeks and then somebody swims in the lake. 00:53:15.040 |
I think it's April, David, to your point of when this goes back to normal, because if you look now, people have been saying free, correct me if I'm wrong. 00:53:21.580 |
Would you put a five X multiplier on the confirmed COVID cases? 00:53:28.060 |
So if you have 30 million people who've had the vaccine, had COVID, you're looking at five times. 00:53:35.440 |
Now you have 60 million people who have been vaccinated. 00:53:37.440 |
330 million Americans, 70 million are under our kids. 00:53:40.380 |
So, you know, we're basically getting to herd immunity. 00:53:44.000 |
And if you look at the slopes right now, what is causing the drop in cases this massively, David? 00:53:49.640 |
Is it herd immunity, vaccine, or are people suddenly wearing masks? 00:53:54.260 |
There's complexity because everyone assumes that there's one thing that affects the whole population. 00:53:59.200 |
But remember, the way viruses work is they're hyperlocal. 00:54:02.340 |
And so the local population dynamics looked at on a scale is where you see the statistics. 00:54:07.280 |
So we're looking at the statistical results of the scale. 00:54:09.280 |
And so, you know, we saw this in North Dakota. 00:54:15.280 |
And then all of a sudden it dropped off the curve. 00:54:17.280 |
When you zoom out and that's happening, combined with behavioral changes, combined with vaccines, then you start to see these statistical things happen at scale. 00:54:24.280 |
So it's not a simple answer, but the answer generally can be we are coming down the slope. 00:54:28.280 |
We are getting to a point of, you know, general like low case counts, low death counts, low fatality.