Why the Grateful Dead Were So Good | Rick Rubin & Dr. Andrew Huberman

00:00:00.000 | - The things that you are getting in touch with,

00:00:04.920 | wrestling, sleep and dreaming, the ocean,

00:00:09.920 | there's a predictability of them

00:00:12.400 | because you can access them in a predictable way,

00:00:15.040 | but they seem to have a lot of unpredictability in them.

00:00:18.540 | The ocean is completely unpredictable.

00:00:20.560 | - I also listened to a lot of music that I don't know.

00:00:23.080 | So I listened to a lot of classical music

00:00:27.800 | and less so, but some jazz

00:00:32.560 | and a lot of old music that I never heard before.

00:00:36.880 | And I like being surprised by music.

00:00:40.400 | And sometimes it really catches me off guard.

00:00:45.440 | Like I shazam a lot, you know,

00:00:47.400 | when I hear something I like.

00:00:49.740 | - Have you ever encountered music

00:00:51.800 | that really works well live,

00:00:54.240 | but just does not work in a recording?

00:00:57.000 | Or that is that much better live,

00:00:58.760 | but the recording is sort of meh.

00:01:00.680 | You don't have to name names.

00:01:02.400 | - Yeah, I don't think so.

00:01:03.240 | I feel like maybe there are some artists who are great live

00:01:07.760 | who've never captured it well on record.

00:01:10.580 | Example would probably be the Grateful Dead's

00:01:13.240 | good example of a band where I feel like their albums

00:01:15.520 | are not their strong point,

00:01:17.760 | but they're, if you hear live recordings,

00:01:20.080 | they're really interesting

00:01:20.960 | and really different from each other.

00:01:22.880 | And that's kind of part of what makes

00:01:24.560 | the Grateful Dead interesting, is their unpredictability.

00:01:28.560 | - I confess, I have a sister who listened to the Grateful Dead

00:01:31.360 | and I got taken to a few shows when I was younger

00:01:33.520 | and they would do that, what is it called, space?

00:01:35.760 | It was like these drum solos

00:01:37.640 | that would go on for hours and hours.

00:01:39.120 | This is like the antithesis of punk rock shows

00:01:41.000 | where songs are like 90 to 120 seconds.

00:01:43.120 | And like, you know, and I remember thinking like,

00:01:45.640 | what is this?

00:01:47.380 | What is this?

00:01:48.220 | But people I know who love the Grateful Dead,

00:01:52.640 | love that uncertainty about where that drum thing,

00:01:57.000 | I think they do call it space.

00:01:58.400 | Forgive me, Deadheads, I'm not enough of one

00:02:00.560 | to get it right.

00:02:02.640 | - But they're looking for something

00:02:04.760 | and sometimes they find it.

00:02:06.600 | And if you're there when they find it, it feels exciting.

00:02:09.560 | 'Cause it's not just following a script.

00:02:14.560 | It's like something is really happening.

00:02:17.800 | It's a real moment.

00:02:19.960 | It's something that I aim for in the studio

00:02:24.960 | is to create real moments that when you hear them,

00:02:31.320 | they don't necessarily sound perfect.

00:02:34.120 | They sound like something that really happened.

00:02:36.600 | And in that moment, something happened

00:02:38.960 | and it's a special moment.

00:02:40.880 | And you can feel that if they were to play it again,

00:02:45.880 | it wouldn't be like that.

00:02:49.560 | There's something really exciting about that.

00:02:51.680 | It's really how jazz works as well.

00:02:56.280 | And I think some of bringing some of that jazz mentality

00:03:01.280 | into other types of music is really interesting,

00:03:06.600 | makes for compelling things.

00:03:08.600 | 'Cause when you hear them, there's a certain amount of,

00:03:12.880 | you really have to pay attention to do it.

00:03:17.480 | When you're doing it, you're really paying attention.

00:03:19.920 | It's like, I don't really know.

00:03:21.720 | There's no music, there's no map to follow.

00:03:26.720 | And now we're working together to make something.

00:03:30.860 | Do I play or not play?

00:03:32.680 | When do I play?

00:03:34.280 | And you're really paying attention.

00:03:36.040 | And can I add, or you go to start adding something

00:03:39.240 | and someone else added something.

00:03:40.080 | It's like, oh, I can't do that.

00:03:42.320 | And it's like, everyone's just in this thing,

00:03:46.840 | in this moment, experiencing this thing at once

00:03:50.840 | that you can feel as a listener.

00:03:55.420 | And we get to hear their excitement of finding it.

00:04:00.420 | And it's thrilling when it happens.

00:04:03.960 | So I like that experience.

00:04:05.980 | I feel like that's kind of what the dead do live.

00:04:08.640 | They'll play songs in different ways.

00:04:10.700 | And again, I don't know very much about the dead

00:04:14.200 | and it's newer for me to listen to the dead.

00:04:18.200 | Growing up, I never listened to the dead.

00:04:20.600 | But probably because I heard songs on their albums

00:04:23.120 | and thought, this doesn't really speak to me.

00:04:24.960 | But I think that the albums don't really reflect

00:04:28.040 | what's special about them.

00:04:29.960 | - I think a lot of their shows were recorded, right?

00:04:31.880 | Or videotaped.

00:04:32.840 | - Yeah, but by fans, which they supported.

00:04:37.000 | They supported that everybody come, everybody tape,

00:04:39.740 | everybody trade tapes.

00:04:42.200 | It made sense for who that band was.

00:04:45.160 | - They redefined or they defined, excuse me,

00:04:48.040 | the notion of followers.

00:04:49.160 | I mean, people literally gave up their lives

00:04:51.200 | or spent much of their lives

00:04:53.200 | literally driving from city to city to follow them.

00:04:56.440 | - Because it's not like going from city to city

00:04:59.760 | to watch a movie over and over.

00:05:01.960 | 'Cause it's not a movie.

00:05:03.400 | It's different every night.

00:05:04.640 | It's changing.

00:05:05.520 | - Pretty incredible phenomenon.

00:05:08.360 | I don't know of anything else quite like it,

00:05:11.000 | except cults.

00:05:12.560 | And those often don't end well.

00:05:14.640 | I think a guy that mixed the pawnship

00:05:19.680 | for the Jonestown Masker went to my high school.

00:05:21.840 | That was the- - Is that true?

00:05:22.880 | - I think so, yeah. - That's amazing.

00:05:24.080 | - My sister is really good at all this

00:05:25.760 | kind of like '70s, '80s, like dark psychology trivia.

00:05:30.760 | She's a very light person, but-

00:05:32.920 | - Did you read "Season of the Witch"?

00:05:35.120 | - No.

00:05:35.960 | - It's about San Francisco in the '60s.

00:05:37.680 | It's great, you'll love it.

00:05:39.360 | - One great book. - I'll have to check it out.

00:05:42.280 | [upbeat music]

00:05:44.860 | [upbeat music]

00:05:47.440 | (upbeat music)

Why the Grateful Dead Were So Good | Rick Rubin & Dr. Andrew Huberman

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