How to Apologize to Your Kids | Dr. Becky Kennedy & Dr. Andrew Huberman
00:00:00.000 | I love Gabor Matei's definition of trauma.
00:00:04.360 | It's not what happens to you, it's what happens inside of you, right?
00:00:07.880 | So to me there's an inherent relationality there where events that get processed, not
00:00:13.240 | any event, events with high emotionality, let's say, that get processed in aloneness
00:00:18.760 | become traumatic.
00:00:20.440 | And I think that's where it gets linked to responsibility.
00:00:23.040 | So this is actually what my TED talk was about and why repair is so important.
00:00:27.840 | Who said this?
00:00:28.840 | Ronald Fairbairn years ago, that for kids it is better to be a sinner in a world ruled
00:00:34.880 | by God than to live in a world ruled by the devil.
00:00:39.800 | I think it explains almost everything about child development right there.
00:00:42.920 | Going back to goodness also, your parent just screamed at you.
00:00:47.560 | And by the way, your parent, I scream at my kids, everyone's gonna scream at their kids,
00:00:50.560 | it's gonna happen, okay?
00:00:51.560 | That's just the event.
00:00:52.560 | The event's not gonna have the impact.
00:00:54.480 | What is happening for a kid?
00:00:55.600 | Well, we know kids are oriented by attachment.
00:00:57.440 | They literally need us to survive.
00:00:59.760 | They could not survive on their own.
00:01:02.160 | And so what do you do when the person you're dependent on for safety becomes the source
00:01:08.840 | of danger and threat?
00:01:10.280 | That's very confusing for a child in that moment.
00:01:12.720 | So they're super hyper aroused, they're in this state of terror.
00:01:17.480 | And then usually after in my house too, I just yell at my kid, they're kind of alone
00:01:20.320 | in their room.
00:01:21.400 | I'm alone in the kitchen or wherever, meanwhile spinning, 'cause I'm like I'm such a bad parent.
00:01:25.240 | Like I'm probably, you know.
00:01:26.240 | But meanwhile, because I'm so lost in my own guilt, I might not be going to my kid.
00:01:31.140 | And so what happens for my kid if I don't repair after I scream at them or one of these
00:01:35.960 | events, right?
00:01:37.480 | Well, a kid cannot say to themselves, "My parent just had a bad day."
00:01:43.460 | Then the badness is in my parent.
00:01:46.040 | My leader, I'm young now, right, like I don't understand nuance.
00:01:49.200 | My leader can't be bad.
00:01:51.280 | So I must take on the badness, at least then I have control.
00:01:55.000 | So kids, after they're kind of yelled at, in the absence of repair, they really only
00:02:01.080 | have two options for how to regulate and feel safe again.
00:02:04.000 | They can self-blame, "It's all my fault," which is why I feel like most adults when
00:02:08.360 | they have a hard time, they tell themselves like, "It's my fault.
00:02:10.920 | I'm not good enough."
00:02:11.920 | It's like the legacy of that story from childhood.
00:02:15.360 | Or they use self-doubt.
00:02:17.560 | Maybe that didn't happen.
00:02:18.560 | Maybe I overreacted.
00:02:19.560 | Maybe I can't trust myself.
00:02:20.720 | Again, it leads to adults who basically say like, "Did I overreact?"
00:02:25.080 | Or, "Let me call five friends.
00:02:26.800 | Let me see if they think what my boyfriend did was a big deal," because they can't
00:02:30.520 | trust themselves.
00:02:31.520 | And so trauma, what I want every parent to know is they'll say, "I left my kid alone
00:02:35.520 | and I didn't pick them up at the soccer field.
00:02:37.000 | Is that going to traumatize them?"
00:02:38.280 | And I'll say, "Well, that's just the event.
00:02:40.820 | Did you say to them, 'Hey, that probably felt scary?
00:02:43.800 | What was that like?
00:02:44.800 | Oh, you're right, like you were alone.
00:02:47.840 | Now all of a sudden, next to the event that was scary is my story and my connection.
00:02:53.080 | It got processed in a safe connection.
00:02:55.160 | It didn't get processed in aloneness."
00:02:57.480 | And that's a massive, massive difference.
00:02:59.760 | In this scenario, you are describing the parent who yelled goes to the child, having been
00:03:07.480 | that child and perhaps also having been that parent.
00:03:12.680 | How do we deal with the fact that sometimes, you know, we don't want to be around the
00:03:16.320 | person that yelled at us?
00:03:19.040 | It hurts to receive the care or there's like a textured landscape as opposed to a smooth
00:03:26.960 | landscape there, like, okay, now you're ready for everything to be peaceful.
00:03:31.600 | I'm still with my feelings.
00:03:32.920 | I guess that's where the "I believe you" comes in and that's where the sorting it through
00:03:37.960 | process begins.
00:03:38.960 | Is that right?
00:03:39.960 | Yeah.
00:03:40.960 | Well, I think it's like what version of a parent comes back.
00:03:42.600 | The first thing we have to do in a repair process is actually repair with ourselves
00:03:47.340 | as a parent, really.
00:03:50.280 | Because if you haven't repaired with yourself, which to me is kind of separating your identity
00:03:54.280 | again from your behavior, like, okay, Becky, I'll use myself as an example, I'm a good
00:03:58.360 | parent who just screamed at her son, like, "I did not mess up forever."
00:04:02.800 | And you see when you try to repair with yourself, those two things get collapsed.
00:04:05.240 | I'm like, "I messed him up forever.
00:04:06.520 | I'm a monster.
00:04:07.520 | Wait."
00:04:08.520 | Like, I'm a good parent who did something I'm not proud of.
00:04:11.840 | You can't repair with someone until you've repaired with yourself.
00:04:14.080 | They feel it from you.
00:04:15.080 | They actually – it usually is like then you're asking for them.
00:04:18.840 | I'll be like, "It's okay, right?
00:04:20.680 | Like you forgive me, right?"
00:04:21.680 | That's not a repair.
00:04:22.680 | That's like using your child to try to do something we just have to do on our own or
00:04:26.920 | with other adults.
00:04:27.920 | But if I've repaired with myself, I'm going to show up in a different way.
00:04:31.240 | Might I have a feisty kid?
00:04:32.240 | I might.
00:04:33.240 | He's like, "I don't care.
00:04:34.240 | It's not better."
00:04:35.240 | That's okay.
00:04:36.240 | I'm not repairing to get something from my child.
00:04:38.240 | I'm repairing to give an experience to them.
00:04:41.000 | So we can also get creative.
00:04:42.880 | You know, your kid is older.
00:04:43.880 | You text them.
00:04:44.880 | You slip a door under the note.
00:04:45.880 | You say, "Okay.
00:04:46.880 | I just have to say this one thing."
00:04:48.600 | To me, this line really matters to like snatch that self-blame out of a kid's body.
00:04:52.280 | It's just like, "I'm sorry I yelled.
00:04:54.240 | It is – it's never your fault when I yell."
00:04:57.560 | And it's not.
00:04:58.560 | And people who argue like our ability to regulate our emotions predated our child's existence
00:05:04.800 | like that.
00:05:05.800 | You know?
00:05:06.800 | Like they had something.
00:05:07.800 | They did something.
00:05:09.240 | And we felt frustrated.
00:05:11.720 | But that's very different than yelling, right?
00:05:15.320 | And saying that to your kid is so important.
00:05:18.000 | Meanwhile, the next day you might say, "By the way, let's really figure out how to get
00:05:22.640 | out the door in a smoother way."
00:05:24.200 | You know, you could work on whatever they need to work on.
00:05:26.800 | But the reason I think most kids end up rejecting parents' apologies is it's not really repair.
00:05:31.880 | We're asking our kid for permission to be okay again.
00:05:34.800 | Or a repair sounds like, "Hey, I'm sorry I yelled.
00:05:37.840 | But, you know, like if you just got ready in time, it wouldn't have happened."
00:05:41.400 | Or we say, "I'm sorry you felt that way.
00:05:43.600 | I'm sorry you felt that way."
00:05:45.200 | Those are not – like none of those are actually repairs.
00:05:47.160 | And if that's what a kid's been used to, they're going to keep a parent more at bay.
00:05:52.240 | So is it safe to say that we can always come back to making the kid feel real and safe?
00:06:00.440 | I believe you as a great place to start.
00:06:02.120 | And the reason I keep coming back to these simple things is that – simple but very,
00:06:05.880 | very potent by the way – is that in the real world landscape of parenting, family
00:06:11.680 | and life, things are happening really fast.
00:06:14.680 | And it's very dynamic.
00:06:16.040 | And it's multifaceted.
00:06:17.040 | I mean, we haven't even talked yet about how – when there's two parents, like the
00:06:21.720 | one that didn't yell.
00:06:24.280 | When there's multiple siblings, when – I mean, there's – you know, human dynamics
00:06:27.120 | on a one – in an other landscape is hard enough.
00:06:31.160 | And then when you start introducing the real world landscape, things happen fast.
00:06:35.480 | So having something that people can reach to really quickly, what I call in the landscape
00:06:39.780 | of stress modulation, which is something that I'm more familiar with from my lab's work
00:06:43.440 | is, you know, real-time tools.
00:06:45.200 | Yeah.
00:06:46.200 | Real-time tools.
00:06:47.200 | Like we're all at our best after meditation, vacation, massage and a good night's sleep.
00:06:50.920 | But what about real-time tools when everything's – everything's hectic?
00:06:56.840 | So what does a really good apology look like in the real world?
00:07:03.640 | Yeah.
00:07:04.640 | I mean, a really good apology in the ideal world of Instagram is, "Yeah, I believe
00:07:13.800 | you.
00:07:14.800 | I'm so sorry," with no buts, no this and that.
00:07:17.760 | But a real apology sometimes is as you're boarding a plane or when there's a bunch
00:07:22.320 | of other things that are going on and you haven't even dealt with those yet.
00:07:25.760 | Or when you're on your way to an event or you – yeah, okay, so you get it.
00:07:30.240 | What does a really good internal landscape for apology look like?
00:07:34.520 | Like how can we touch into where we need to be?
00:07:37.120 | And then what are the words that even if we have to try again later and again and again
00:07:41.600 | later with that person, in this case kid, but person more generally, what's the like
00:07:48.320 | go-to solid apology?
00:07:49.920 | Right.
00:07:50.920 | So, yeah, I think you are never going to go wrong saying, "I believe you," to your
00:07:53.080 | kid.
00:07:54.080 | Like obviously not if you say it randomly.
00:07:55.080 | But if they're really upset, "You yelled at me," "I believe you," like if that's
00:07:58.520 | all you can remember, you're crushing it.
00:08:00.880 | I think a realistic repair, you have to do something for yourself.
00:08:06.560 | And like to me it can be a very simple mantra.
00:08:09.400 | Like to me, "I'm a good parent who is having a hard time," is the one I use, honestly,
00:08:14.640 | over and over.
00:08:16.320 | And after I yell at my kid before – I'll like go to the bathroom sometimes and I'll
00:08:19.600 | say that to myself, "Becky, like I'm a good parent having a hard time."
00:08:23.480 | And I'll kind of say it as many times as I need until I really do feel something like
00:08:26.720 | shift a little in my body.
00:08:28.400 | Because, again, I think that phrase separates what I did from who I am, right?
00:08:34.880 | And then to me a realistic apology, it could be super simple.
00:08:37.560 | If you remember nothing else, it could just be like, "I'm sorry I yelled."
00:08:41.160 | That's great.
00:08:43.000 | If you want to – if you're like, "I'm feeling it, Becky.
00:08:45.400 | Give me that next step," you know, "I'm sorry I yelled."
00:08:50.220 | Just like you, I'm working on managing my emotions and, you know, next time even when
00:08:56.900 | I'm frustrated I'm going to try to stay calm.
00:08:59.100 | Something about the next time, you know, if you want to throw in that it's not your
00:09:02.860 | fault.
00:09:03.860 | Kids – it seems an odd thing because parents are like, "Why?
00:09:07.220 | Do kids assume it's their fault?"
00:09:08.820 | It is their default position.
00:09:12.620 | And so it's never a bad thing to throw in.
00:09:14.740 | But honestly, just simply, "Hey, I'm sorry I yelled," that actually gives them that
00:09:20.500 | realness.
00:09:21.500 | Because without saying anything more, you're saying that thing you think happened did happen.
00:09:27.220 | So that's powerful.
00:09:28.220 | Thank you for tuning in to the Huberman Lab Clips channel.
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