How Do I Explain Election over Brunch?
00:00:00.000 | (upbeat music)
00:00:02.580 | - Andrew from Benton, Kansas writes in,
00:00:07.680 | Pastor John, you once described how you would explain
00:00:10.400 | Christian hedonism to somebody over lunch at Pizza Hut.
00:00:14.920 | Realizing divine election may take a bit longer,
00:00:18.140 | what is the easiest way to share this with someone
00:00:20.240 | and with what key scripture would you explain it
00:00:23.080 | over, say, a weekend brunch?
00:00:26.200 | What would you say, Pastor John?
00:00:28.220 | - Okay, so we're moving from a Christian hedonism
00:00:31.360 | Pizza Hut lunch to an election lunch.
00:00:35.160 | - A weekend brunch some more time.
00:00:36.440 | - Brunch, brunch, okay.
00:00:38.200 | All right, good.
00:00:40.480 | Now I'm going to assume that we're talking to a Christian.
00:00:44.400 | I don't know if that's the intention,
00:00:46.900 | but I'm gonna assume it because if the person,
00:00:49.660 | we're not a Christian, election is not where
00:00:51.660 | I would go first.
00:00:52.800 | (laughs)
00:00:53.640 | I would go to the gospel, I might get around to election
00:00:57.160 | and they may have a question about it
00:00:58.440 | and that would be okay, but that's not the first
00:01:01.400 | on the agenda.
00:01:02.240 | So my first assumption is we're talking to a believer
00:01:04.860 | who's got some stumbling blocks or problems
00:01:08.580 | with the doctrine of election,
00:01:09.840 | is not sure what he believes about it.
00:01:13.840 | And I'm going to assume that we're on the same page
00:01:16.280 | with regard to the authority of the Bible,
00:01:17.940 | because I don't think anybody comes to the doctrine
00:01:20.000 | of election without believing that the Bible teaches it
00:01:23.940 | and submitting to the Bible.
00:01:26.920 | So that's what I'm assuming.
00:01:29.840 | Now here's my approach.
00:01:31.540 | I would not start with election directly.
00:01:36.240 | I would start by asking this person to describe to me
00:01:40.120 | how they got saved.
00:01:41.360 | That is, tell me how you were converted
00:01:44.480 | or actually the words I would use to make it more clear
00:01:47.640 | instead of that passive got saved,
00:01:49.880 | I would say, how did God save you?
00:01:52.120 | I mean, historically, what did he do in history to save you?
00:01:55.240 | And existentially, what did he do 10 years ago
00:01:58.040 | or when you were six or when you were 16
00:01:59.800 | or when you were 30?
00:02:01.240 | What did he do?
00:02:02.880 | Describe to me how God brought you to himself.
00:02:07.000 | And I'm looking here to see how a person describes
00:02:12.000 | their lostness and the action of God
00:02:17.120 | to bring them out of blindness, to see,
00:02:19.340 | to bring them out of deadness, to life,
00:02:23.520 | to bring them out of insensitivity to spiritual things,
00:02:27.560 | to being thrilled with spiritual things.
00:02:30.400 | I'm looking for that kind of description.
00:02:33.260 | And what I find in approaching election this way,
00:02:37.040 | I'm going at it through the,
00:02:38.400 | I'm going up to election by the effects of election.
00:02:42.800 | What I find is that very few people that I ever talk to
00:02:47.800 | about their conversion want to take decisive credit
00:02:51.040 | for their conversion.
00:02:52.160 | They want to say, "There but for the grace of God go I."
00:02:56.620 | And if they stumble here, then I would say,
00:03:02.160 | when you stand before God, if he asks you,
00:03:06.320 | "Why did you recognize me as true and believe
00:03:11.080 | while others in your similar situation didn't?"
00:03:14.120 | I'll ask them that question.
00:03:17.040 | Few people, few people want to answer,
00:03:21.080 | "Well, 'cause I was smarter or wiser or more spiritual
00:03:26.080 | or more teachable."
00:03:28.000 | Almost every Christian I've ever talked to,
00:03:31.040 | in fact, I can't think of an exception,
00:03:33.520 | wants to answer, "It was grace.
00:03:37.160 | It was grace all the way down.
00:03:39.080 | That's why I had my eyes opened and that's why I saw you."
00:03:44.080 | Now, at this point, with their hearts leaning
00:03:48.280 | in that direction, leaning in the right direction,
00:03:51.680 | and I think people who are born again
00:03:54.720 | do lean in the right direction,
00:03:57.160 | I take them to texts that teach what really happened to them
00:04:02.160 | just to affirm what they've already hinted at
00:04:05.560 | and they may not know from the Bible.
00:04:08.400 | And this is still coming at election,
00:04:10.880 | but it's got to settle first how they got saved.
00:04:14.600 | So I would say to the formerly blind person,
00:04:18.080 | God who said, "Let light shine out of darkness,"
00:04:20.480 | has shown in our hearts to give the light
00:04:23.880 | of the knowledge of the glory of God.
00:04:25.200 | So once we had no light and God gave it,
00:04:28.200 | just like on the first day of creation,
00:04:30.380 | I'd say to the formerly dead person,
00:04:32.920 | "Even when we were dead in our trespasses,
00:04:36.080 | God made us alive.
00:04:37.200 | So we were dead, God made you alive.
00:04:39.240 | That's how you got saved."
00:04:40.520 | I'd say to the unrepentant, formerly unrepentant person,
00:04:45.360 | 2 Timothy 2.25, "The servant of the Lord must be patient
00:04:50.360 | and correct with gentleness.
00:04:53.800 | God may perhaps grant them repentance.
00:04:57.500 | God may grant them repentance,
00:04:59.720 | leading to a knowledge of the truth."
00:05:01.140 | So I'd say, "So how did you come to repentance?
00:05:03.960 | God granted you repentance."
00:05:06.000 | So God gave them sight, God gave them life,
00:05:09.880 | God gave them repentance, and no one can come to me
00:05:13.440 | unless it is granted to him by the Father,
00:05:15.360 | and so God gave you approach.
00:05:18.340 | And I would ask at each point if they saw
00:05:21.080 | that God was the decisive cause of their seeing Christ
00:05:26.080 | as true and desirable and the source
00:05:30.060 | of their spiritual life and their repentance
00:05:32.060 | and their coming to Christ.
00:05:33.680 | And if they push back and deny this
00:05:37.040 | and insist that they have ultimate self-determination
00:05:41.040 | and they themselves are decisively responsible
00:05:43.920 | for their own conversion, I'd stop there
00:05:46.280 | and wouldn't go on to election
00:05:47.680 | because they've already rejected the foundations.
00:05:51.120 | If they have to have self-determination
00:05:54.320 | as the ultimate cause of their conversion,
00:05:58.200 | then election is already undermined
00:06:00.240 | and there's no biblical teaching that will make it plain
00:06:03.800 | because the teachings that I just gave them
00:06:06.600 | about how they got converted are more plain.
00:06:10.360 | But if they're still agreeing, if they're agreeing,
00:06:12.640 | yes, God saved me, God was the decisive cause,
00:06:15.800 | then I would ask them, when did God decide to do that?
00:06:19.280 | And to get the biblical answer,
00:06:20.740 | I'd probably look first at Acts 13, 48,
00:06:23.760 | where it says, "As many as were appointed
00:06:26.080 | "to eternal life believed."
00:06:28.620 | As many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
00:06:32.080 | There was a prior decision, appointment, election,
00:06:37.080 | and then faith followed.
00:06:40.120 | God decided at a prior time to bring you to belief,
00:06:45.120 | to open your eyes and to give you repentance.
00:06:50.160 | And then I would turn to election, Ephesians 1, 4.
00:06:54.440 | Even as he chose us, he elected us,
00:06:56.960 | he chose us in him before the foundation of the world.
00:07:00.920 | And I would simply say, the very way you have been saved,
00:07:05.400 | that you agree with, that God saved you,
00:07:07.720 | he decided to do that before he did it.
00:07:10.440 | He's not a God who is whimsical,
00:07:12.960 | he doesn't get taken off guard, he doesn't have plan Bs.
00:07:16.800 | He saved you sovereignly because he decided to.
00:07:21.800 | And that would be the end of my effort.
00:07:25.600 | Though, if they had more time,
00:07:27.980 | I might write down on a napkin,
00:07:29.640 | Romans 8, 30, Romans 9, 11, Romans 11, 5,
00:07:32.720 | 1 Corinthians 1, 23 to 24, and send them off to study,
00:07:36.640 | and then we could talk again.
00:07:38.440 | Those are all texts about election.
00:07:41.080 | But the aim of the conversation would be to awaken,
00:07:45.720 | in both of us, a greater sense of wonder
00:07:50.100 | that we are saved and that we owe it all to God.
00:07:54.120 | That apart from him, we can do nothing,
00:07:56.360 | and therefore all of our lives should be lived
00:07:58.760 | in the constant amazement that we are saved,
00:08:02.840 | and that he would die for us,
00:08:04.640 | and that he would give us sight instead of blindness,
00:08:08.600 | and life instead of deadness.
00:08:11.600 | In fact, Paul says in 1 Corinthians 1, 26, following,
00:08:16.600 | "God chose, God elected things that are not
00:08:21.440 | "to bring to nothing things that are
00:08:23.480 | "so that no human being might boast."
00:08:28.440 | In other words, election strips of boasting,
00:08:31.600 | but let him who boasts, boast in the Lord.
00:08:34.360 | So the bottom line of the goal of that lunch
00:08:36.800 | is humility in us and all glory to God.
00:08:40.760 | - Yes, and amen.
00:08:42.560 | Thank you, Pastor John.
00:08:43.560 | And we mentioned earlier, there's an episode
00:08:45.320 | in which you talk about Pizza Hut.
00:08:47.160 | It's the episode titled,
00:08:48.200 | "How to Explain Christian Hedonism Over Lunch."
00:08:50.800 | That's episode number 356.
00:08:53.360 | You can find that episode in the archive.
00:08:55.360 | And now there's a new way to search and navigate
00:08:57.560 | the archive of over 500 episodes we have released to date.
00:09:01.680 | We have apps for the Apple and Android devices, of course,
00:09:04.400 | where you can do that.
00:09:05.840 | And now we have a landing page on our website as well.
00:09:08.280 | Go to desiringgod.org.
00:09:10.440 | At the top of the page, click the tab that says More,
00:09:13.120 | and then click on Ask Pastor John.
00:09:14.760 | And there you can search the entire database
00:09:16.320 | of episodes by title.
00:09:18.080 | Look for episode number 356 if you wanna hear
00:09:20.880 | Pastor John talk about Pizza Hut.
00:09:23.200 | Well, if God is sovereign, why does he not blank?
00:09:27.200 | We get a lot of those types of questions,
00:09:28.760 | and they're good questions, they're tough questions.
00:09:31.280 | And tomorrow, Leah writes in to ask,
00:09:33.040 | if God is so happy, why did he create the non-elect
00:09:37.400 | who would perish forever?
00:09:39.640 | It's a heavy question,
00:09:40.800 | but Pastor John is gonna answer it tomorrow.
00:09:42.600 | I'm your host, Tony Reinke.
00:09:43.840 | We'll see you then.
00:09:44.800 | (gentle music)
00:09:47.400 | (gentle music)
00:09:50.000 | [BLANK_AUDIO]