(upbeat music) - Andrew from Benton, Kansas writes in, Pastor John, you once described how you would explain Christian hedonism to somebody over lunch at Pizza Hut. Realizing divine election may take a bit longer, what is the easiest way to share this with someone and with what key scripture would you explain it over, say, a weekend brunch?

What would you say, Pastor John? - Okay, so we're moving from a Christian hedonism Pizza Hut lunch to an election lunch. - A weekend brunch some more time. - Brunch, brunch, okay. All right, good. Now I'm going to assume that we're talking to a Christian. I don't know if that's the intention, but I'm gonna assume it because if the person, we're not a Christian, election is not where I would go first.

(laughs) I would go to the gospel, I might get around to election and they may have a question about it and that would be okay, but that's not the first on the agenda. So my first assumption is we're talking to a believer who's got some stumbling blocks or problems with the doctrine of election, is not sure what he believes about it.

And I'm going to assume that we're on the same page with regard to the authority of the Bible, because I don't think anybody comes to the doctrine of election without believing that the Bible teaches it and submitting to the Bible. So that's what I'm assuming. Now here's my approach.

I would not start with election directly. I would start by asking this person to describe to me how they got saved. That is, tell me how you were converted or actually the words I would use to make it more clear instead of that passive got saved, I would say, how did God save you?

I mean, historically, what did he do in history to save you? And existentially, what did he do 10 years ago or when you were six or when you were 16 or when you were 30? What did he do? Describe to me how God brought you to himself. And I'm looking here to see how a person describes their lostness and the action of God to bring them out of blindness, to see, to bring them out of deadness, to life, to bring them out of insensitivity to spiritual things, to being thrilled with spiritual things.

I'm looking for that kind of description. And what I find in approaching election this way, I'm going at it through the, I'm going up to election by the effects of election. What I find is that very few people that I ever talk to about their conversion want to take decisive credit for their conversion.

They want to say, "There but for the grace of God go I." And if they stumble here, then I would say, when you stand before God, if he asks you, "Why did you recognize me as true and believe while others in your similar situation didn't?" I'll ask them that question.

Few people, few people want to answer, "Well, 'cause I was smarter or wiser or more spiritual or more teachable." Almost every Christian I've ever talked to, in fact, I can't think of an exception, wants to answer, "It was grace. It was grace all the way down. That's why I had my eyes opened and that's why I saw you." Now, at this point, with their hearts leaning in that direction, leaning in the right direction, and I think people who are born again do lean in the right direction, I take them to texts that teach what really happened to them just to affirm what they've already hinted at and they may not know from the Bible.

And this is still coming at election, but it's got to settle first how they got saved. So I would say to the formerly blind person, God who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," has shown in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God.

So once we had no light and God gave it, just like on the first day of creation, I'd say to the formerly dead person, "Even when we were dead in our trespasses, God made us alive. So we were dead, God made you alive. That's how you got saved." I'd say to the unrepentant, formerly unrepentant person, 2 Timothy 2.25, "The servant of the Lord must be patient and correct with gentleness.

God may perhaps grant them repentance. God may grant them repentance, leading to a knowledge of the truth." So I'd say, "So how did you come to repentance? God granted you repentance." So God gave them sight, God gave them life, God gave them repentance, and no one can come to me unless it is granted to him by the Father, and so God gave you approach.

And I would ask at each point if they saw that God was the decisive cause of their seeing Christ as true and desirable and the source of their spiritual life and their repentance and their coming to Christ. And if they push back and deny this and insist that they have ultimate self-determination and they themselves are decisively responsible for their own conversion, I'd stop there and wouldn't go on to election because they've already rejected the foundations.

If they have to have self-determination as the ultimate cause of their conversion, then election is already undermined and there's no biblical teaching that will make it plain because the teachings that I just gave them about how they got converted are more plain. But if they're still agreeing, if they're agreeing, yes, God saved me, God was the decisive cause, then I would ask them, when did God decide to do that?

And to get the biblical answer, I'd probably look first at Acts 13, 48, where it says, "As many as were appointed "to eternal life believed." As many as were appointed to eternal life believed. There was a prior decision, appointment, election, and then faith followed. God decided at a prior time to bring you to belief, to open your eyes and to give you repentance.

And then I would turn to election, Ephesians 1, 4. Even as he chose us, he elected us, he chose us in him before the foundation of the world. And I would simply say, the very way you have been saved, that you agree with, that God saved you, he decided to do that before he did it.

He's not a God who is whimsical, he doesn't get taken off guard, he doesn't have plan Bs. He saved you sovereignly because he decided to. And that would be the end of my effort. Though, if they had more time, I might write down on a napkin, Romans 8, 30, Romans 9, 11, Romans 11, 5, 1 Corinthians 1, 23 to 24, and send them off to study, and then we could talk again.

Those are all texts about election. But the aim of the conversation would be to awaken, in both of us, a greater sense of wonder that we are saved and that we owe it all to God. That apart from him, we can do nothing, and therefore all of our lives should be lived in the constant amazement that we are saved, and that he would die for us, and that he would give us sight instead of blindness, and life instead of deadness.

In fact, Paul says in 1 Corinthians 1, 26, following, "God chose, God elected things that are not "to bring to nothing things that are "so that no human being might boast." In other words, election strips of boasting, but let him who boasts, boast in the Lord. So the bottom line of the goal of that lunch is humility in us and all glory to God.

- Yes, and amen. Thank you, Pastor John. And we mentioned earlier, there's an episode in which you talk about Pizza Hut. It's the episode titled, "How to Explain Christian Hedonism Over Lunch." That's episode number 356. You can find that episode in the archive. And now there's a new way to search and navigate the archive of over 500 episodes we have released to date.

We have apps for the Apple and Android devices, of course, where you can do that. And now we have a landing page on our website as well. Go to desiringgod.org. At the top of the page, click the tab that says More, and then click on Ask Pastor John. And there you can search the entire database of episodes by title.

Look for episode number 356 if you wanna hear Pastor John talk about Pizza Hut. Well, if God is sovereign, why does he not blank? We get a lot of those types of questions, and they're good questions, they're tough questions. And tomorrow, Leah writes in to ask, if God is so happy, why did he create the non-elect who would perish forever?

It's a heavy question, but Pastor John is gonna answer it tomorrow. I'm your host, Tony Reinke. We'll see you then. (gentle music) (gentle music)