ATHLLC4218838625

00:00:00.000 | A quick word from our sponsor today.

00:00:01.680 | I love helping you answer all the toughest questions about life, money, and so much

00:00:08.040 | more, but sometimes it's helpful to talk to other people in your situation, which

00:00:12.860 | actually gets harder as you build your wealth.

00:00:14.920 | So I want to introduce you to today's sponsor, LongAngle.

00:00:18.160 | LongAngle is a community of high net worth individuals with backgrounds in

00:00:22.200 | everything from technology, finance, medicine, to real estate, law,

00:00:26.040 | manufacturing, and more.

00:00:27.600 | I'm a member of LongAngle.

00:00:29.480 | I've loved being a part of the community, and I've even had one of the founders,

00:00:33.040 | Tad Fallows, join me on all the hacks in episode 87 to talk about alternative

00:00:37.200 | investments.

00:00:37.920 | Now, the majority of LongAngle members are first generation wealth, young,

00:00:42.240 | highly successful individuals who join the community to share knowledge and learn

00:00:46.400 | from each other in a confidential, unbiased setting.

00:00:49.600 | On top of that, members also get access to some unique private market

00:00:53.920 | investment opportunities.

00:00:55.200 | Like I said, I'm a member and I've gotten so much value from the community

00:00:59.120 | because you're getting advice and feedback from people in a similar

00:01:02.280 | situation to you on everything from your investment portfolio, to your

00:01:06.240 | children's education, to finding a concierge doctor.

00:01:09.200 | So many of these conversations aren't happening anywhere else online.

00:01:13.120 | So if you have more than 2.2 million in investable assets, which is their

00:01:17.400 | minimum for membership, I encourage you to check out LongAngle and it's

00:01:21.440 | totally free to join.

00:01:22.720 | Just go to longangle.com to learn more.

00:01:26.120 | And if you choose to apply, be sure to let them know.

00:01:28.840 | You heard about it here.

00:01:29.960 | Again, that's longangle.com.

00:01:34.640 | Hello everyone.

00:01:39.600 | And welcome to All The Hacks, a show about upgrading your life, money, and

00:01:43.920 | travel all while spending less and saving more.

00:01:46.800 | I'm Chris Hutchins.

00:01:48.240 | And it is so great to have you here for a really exciting episode.

00:01:51.640 | If you've never been a fan of basketball, you might not recognize our guests, but I

00:01:55.920 | can assure you it's a conversation you won't want to miss.

00:01:59.320 | And if you are a fan, then I'm sure you'll recognize NBA legend Manu Ginobili.

00:02:03.720 | Though by the end of this episode, you might refer to him as minivan driving,

00:02:08.560 | savvy investing, credit card points obsessive NBA legend, Manu Ginobili.

00:02:13.560 | Manu grew up playing basketball in Argentina and started his professional

00:02:18.040 | career in 1995 playing in the EuroLeague.

00:02:21.000 | In '99, the San Antonio Spurs picked Manu with the second to last pick in the

00:02:26.040 | entire NBA draft, but he wasn't offered a spot on the team right away.

00:02:30.000 | So he kept playing in the EuroLeague, leading his team to win the 2001 championship.

00:02:34.840 | Finally, the next year he joined the Spurs roster and played his entire

00:02:39.360 | 16-year NBA career with the team, where they made the playoffs all 16 years, won

00:02:44.640 | an NBA championship four times, and Manu was named a two-time NBA all-star.

00:02:50.600 | If that wasn't enough, he led team Argentina to an Olympic gold in 2002,

00:02:56.000 | which was, and still is, the only time Team USA has lost gold since 1988.

00:03:01.840 | In fact, he is only one of two players in basketball history to win the EuroLeague,

00:03:07.560 | an Olympic gold medal, and an NBA championship.

00:03:10.960 | He retired in 2018 at 40 years old after playing professional basketball for 23

00:03:16.920 | years. If that seems long, it's because the average NBA career is only four and a

00:03:21.600 | half years. In fact, only 30 people in history have ever played into their 40s.

00:03:27.160 | In our conversation, we'll discuss how Manu pushed his mind and body to play on

00:03:32.680 | one of the world's biggest stages longer than everyone else.

00:03:36.040 | This includes talking about training, fitness, diet, mindfulness practices, and

00:03:41.200 | more. But that's not all we'll be talking about.

00:03:43.840 | There's another side of Manu that few people know about, and it's a big part of

00:03:47.600 | why I asked him to join me on all the hacks.

00:03:49.880 | While there are so many professional athletes out there buying fancy cars and

00:03:53.720 | watches with big stacks of cash, Manu was pulling up to the AT&T center in his

00:03:58.440 | minivan and always making sure he used the right one of his five credit cards to

00:04:02.600 | rack up the most points he could.

00:04:04.280 | This is going to be a fantastic conversation, so let's jump in.

00:04:08.280 | Manu, thanks for being here.

00:04:12.040 | Pleasure to be here, man.

00:04:13.480 | Yeah, so I'm just going to kick it off.

00:04:15.200 | I read a New York Times article this morning, and it's from 2017.

00:04:19.680 | And it said that you're two times more likely than the rest of the population to

00:04:23.600 | do the career your parents did.

00:04:25.240 | And I know you grew up around basketball and you played when you were young.

00:04:29.200 | What was that like?

00:04:30.640 | And how much do you think that pushed you into the sport?

00:04:33.360 | Or do you think it was more internal desire?

00:04:35.640 | Well, my father was a big fan of the sport, was actually the president of Boys

00:04:42.400 | and Girls Club in my local city.

00:04:44.760 | And I spent a lot and I mean, a lot of time shooting hoops and playing with

00:04:51.120 | whoever was at the gym.

00:04:52.800 | I just got very lucky that my genetic code propitiated my basketball abilities

00:05:00.960 | and that I had a strong desire to do well.

00:05:04.520 | I really loved it from minute one.

00:05:06.680 | And the combination of things sparked my career.

00:05:10.720 | And do you think your younger self ever would have imagined the career you had?

00:05:14.800 | Not in a million years, I could visualize early that playing in Argentina at a

00:05:21.160 | high level, maybe with the national team, then later with maybe in Europe.

00:05:26.920 | But having had a career like this, winning multiple NBA championships and

00:05:32.640 | playing for 16 years in the NBA, that was impossible to forecast because there was

00:05:38.560 | not one Argentinian in history that played in the NBA when I was a kid.

00:05:44.520 | So for us, it was unreachable, was something impossible.

00:05:47.200 | And Michael Jordan was an alien that came from somewhere else to play hoops.

00:05:51.920 | No, it was not part of the equation at all.

00:05:54.880 | And has that changed now?

00:05:56.200 | Have you have you changed the kind of aspirations of Argentinian basketball

00:05:59.760 | players now?

00:06:00.360 | Well, after so many years now, I think we are 15 players from Argentina that ended

00:06:07.720 | up playing in the NBA, some for a few games, some others for for many.

00:06:11.880 | So the NBA became that this world league, more than an American league, became more

00:06:18.680 | of a goal, something more reachable than what it was for me.

00:06:22.320 | They've done a great job recruiting and drafting talent all over the world.

00:06:28.160 | So basically every, every single country have one participant in the

00:06:33.200 | NBA in the last 10 years.

00:06:35.160 | So it's, it changed a lot.

00:06:37.520 | Yeah, and your career didn't start in the NBA.

00:06:40.440 | So I know you kind of had an atypical NBA career.

00:06:44.200 | I think you were maybe 25 when you finally got to the NBA.

00:06:47.680 | And like you said, first player from Argentina.

00:06:50.400 | How did that path of being an outsider coming in late play into your role and

00:06:56.440 | how it changed over time?

00:06:57.560 | First of all, I wasn't ready at all at 20.

00:07:01.960 | I was a late bloomer.

00:07:03.000 | So at 18, I was not even close.

00:07:05.880 | At 20, I wasn't ready either.

00:07:07.720 | And I needed the, the extra work and the extra time in Europe to, to develop my

00:07:13.560 | game, to, to grow physically, mentally.

00:07:16.280 | So even the day I got drafted at 22, I had zero expectations of being drafted.

00:07:22.960 | And I think the Spurs either, they got me at number 57 and I didn't even know the

00:07:30.760 | draft was held that day.

00:07:32.880 | So I was a late bloomer.

00:07:35.680 | I had different types of expectations for my career.

00:07:38.560 | And, but, but it just slowly happened.

00:07:42.520 | And some goals, I reached some goals and then put the next one and then the next

00:07:49.000 | one, and all of a sudden I, all of a sudden I felt, I found myself at 25 playing for

00:07:55.160 | the, for the Spurs.

00:07:56.320 | So the benefit of all that was that I saw basically everything.

00:08:02.640 | I was a backup in Argentina as a small league.

00:08:06.760 | Then I was playing in second division in Italy.

00:08:09.520 | Then I moved to a very good team in Italy and I was supposed to be a six man there.

00:08:16.040 | And the following year was more of a, the go-to guy in the championship team.

00:08:20.840 | So I went through every stage to the NBA and made me, I think, value way more where

00:08:29.960 | I was at every stage.

00:08:31.520 | So I, from, from day one here in the NBA, I never took anything for granted.

00:08:38.280 | It was just a long way.

00:08:40.640 | It took me to get here and I was going to use it as well as I could.

00:08:44.000 | Yeah.

00:08:44.400 | A lot of the people I know, whether they're in sports or entrepreneurs, they

00:08:49.160 | find that they have this skill and they're successful early on in the career.

00:08:52.440 | And they're sometimes difficult to be coached.

00:08:55.800 | You know, they think they have everything.

00:08:57.880 | It seems like you appreciated the value of coaching and

00:09:01.080 | learning early on in your career.

00:09:02.960 | Is that true?

00:09:03.840 | How did that evolve and how are your relationships with coaches?

00:09:06.480 | I had very good relationships with every coach I had.

00:09:10.520 | I'm not sure where that, where that comes from.

00:09:13.400 | I wasn't, I've never been a rebellious type of guy.

00:09:16.720 | I never challenged the authority or I just follow the rules and try to accommodate

00:09:23.720 | my skills to what I was being asked and try to bend those rules slowly.

00:09:29.720 | The way, the way it happened with, with Bob, with, with the Spurs, but

00:09:33.480 | trying to, within the system, try to use my skills the best way I could.

00:09:38.360 | But I both, well, actually everywhere I played in Italy, national team, NBA,

00:09:44.880 | or, or in Argentina, I still have good relationship with my coach.

00:09:49.640 | And do you think the, the value of coaching applied equally

00:09:53.960 | throughout your career when you were just getting started, but

00:09:56.200 | you're kind of towards the end?

00:09:57.720 | How did, how did that change over time?

00:09:59.440 | In the last 16 years, I had only one coach basically with the Spurs and

00:10:04.240 | he helped me grew as a man, as a player.

00:10:07.520 | So I had the utmost respect for him, both on the court and off the court.

00:10:14.200 | In, in the national team, we had only three coaches in the 20

00:10:20.320 | years I played there basically.

00:10:22.320 | So that time allows you to, to create a bond, a connection and a way of

00:10:28.520 | communicating that goes beyond only words and, but times are great times.

00:10:32.880 | So you know exactly who you got next to you.

00:10:35.840 | So I know I'm, I'm part of a 1% or even less of players that, you know, had

00:10:42.000 | one coach for the career or so many.

00:10:43.880 | So it's a few amount of different type of personalities.

00:10:47.880 | It's just only a handful.

00:10:50.240 | So I've been very lucky in that regard.

00:10:53.240 | And I, we had a great relationship with, with all of them.

00:10:56.560 | Yeah.

00:10:57.040 | I mean, you said very few people have that.

00:10:58.880 | What do you think led to you being with the same team the whole time when I'm

00:11:04.200 | sure you had teammates coming and going the entire experience?

00:11:07.760 | Well, I think that I fit, I fit in this organization and I was very lucky to

00:11:15.160 | have RC and Bob that really liked me, really love having me around and what I

00:11:20.440 | gave the team both on and off the court, because it depended on them, not only on

00:11:26.040 | me, then on my side, I, I just was happy here.

00:11:30.400 | So I was not willing to go look for something else somewhere because I

00:11:36.640 | didn't care about markets.

00:11:37.760 | I didn't care about being on, having more time on TV or something like that.

00:11:41.560 | I was fine.

00:11:42.360 | And we were winning and we had a great environment and we had a great

00:11:46.280 | family structure here in San Antonio.

00:11:48.480 | So for most of my career, I didn't even consider going somewhere else.

00:11:54.160 | There were a couple of times that maybe I entertained it because I didn't

00:11:57.000 | know what was going to happen.

00:11:58.040 | But overall, I just been super lucky to, to have been part of

00:12:02.480 | this, this incredible organization.

00:12:04.560 | And for so many years, sharing teams with the same core group of

00:12:07.920 | guys, very, very unusual in, in the NBA and in today's NBA, even less.

00:12:12.360 | It's amazing that you had such a, an incredible career for so long with one

00:12:17.280 | team, a common theme, talking to people that played with you over your whole

00:12:21.880 | career, hearing people say that nobody could figure you out.

00:12:25.800 | You were the toughest to defend their tapes of every game.

00:12:28.680 | And you played almost probably with playoffs and everything, a hundred games

00:12:32.000 | a year, how did you manage to keep that mystery alive and evolve your style in

00:12:38.040 | a way that people, even as you were retiring, couldn't figure you out?

00:12:42.320 | Was that you?

00:12:43.520 | Was that coaches?

00:12:44.520 | Was that a combination?

00:12:45.960 | I had no idea, man.

00:12:47.480 | I kept hearing some, some of the comments of some all stars and some

00:12:53.240 | other great defenders that, and I thought I was pretty straightforward with my game.

00:13:00.280 | Even, even though I wanted to go left, if I couldn't go left, then I, well, I would

00:13:04.920 | make some sort of move to go back left.

00:13:07.960 | And if not, I started to develop some counter moves, like a step back, going

00:13:12.800 | right, or some little tools, but, um, I never saw that.

00:13:17.600 | I never felt it.

00:13:19.040 | It's not that I'm just saying it because it sounds well or something, even the,

00:13:23.520 | this, the Euro step that, that now is a word that we all heard before it didn't

00:13:28.560 | exist, I didn't know I was doing anything unusual.

00:13:31.360 | I was using the only tool I had to go by guys like that were 50 to 60 pounds

00:13:39.840 | heavier and taller, and you could jump more than me.

00:13:42.200 | So I couldn't go over them vertically.

00:13:45.880 | So I had to go sideways.

00:13:47.880 | And for me, for me, it was so natural and so automatic, but then I started to, you

00:13:54.040 | know, to hear people talk about that, how unique it was that I look like a squirrel.

00:13:58.440 | Going between the cars and stuff like that.

00:14:00.160 | So again, where, where did it come from?

00:14:03.520 | No clue.

00:14:04.160 | I just play the only way I, I could to survive in this, in this harsh

00:14:10.440 | environment of super athletes.

00:14:12.680 | I mean, super athletes is, is unbelievable, right?

00:14:16.480 | You're on the main stage for a game played around the world.

00:14:20.360 | And, and it's not just raw talent, right?

00:14:22.720 | I have to imagine that to do everything that a professional NBA player does.

00:14:28.560 | It's, it's more than that.

00:14:30.280 | It's also about grit and willpower and determination.

00:14:34.040 | I've heard you say that most players in any sport lose more than they win.

00:14:38.720 | How do you push yourself forward when, you know, you're operating in such an

00:14:43.880 | uncertain league in terms of what'll happen next season, in terms of whether

00:14:48.160 | you've won or lost, how do you, how did you get through that mentally and how did

00:14:52.000 | you push yourself through all the hard times?

00:14:53.840 | Well, I wasn't good at that at the beginning.

00:14:56.520 | I didn't take losses accountably.

00:15:00.240 | I was very tough on myself.

00:15:02.640 | I was always being very competitive.

00:15:04.880 | And I always mentioned that it's not that I, I nourished or I tried to be competitive.

00:15:12.040 | I was competitive from, from day one.

00:15:15.360 | I competed even with my brothers for grades.

00:15:19.240 | I competed with friends about who had the best, whatever, shot from

00:15:23.800 | half court or whatever, at anything I competed hard and that brings a lot

00:15:29.240 | of obsession sort of, because I didn't want to lose at anything.

00:15:33.520 | And I, I dragged that all my career.

00:15:37.040 | And I never, maybe until the last three, four years, I really

00:15:41.480 | never learned to lose properly.

00:15:45.400 | I took it too hard and it was very strict on myself.

00:15:48.680 | And it's a, it's a skill that I had to, to develop, to, to think about it,

00:15:55.600 | to read about it, to talk about it.

00:15:57.600 | And then towards the end, when, when my performance was starting to decay in

00:16:02.680 | some way, in some way, I was not the same as before, I started to, to be nicer to,

00:16:09.400 | to myself, right, to, to allow more mistakes, to accept that the time was

00:16:14.800 | doing its thing and that I was not as fast as before, and I was not as effective

00:16:19.480 | and that everything was hurting longer than before.

00:16:23.000 | And that's when I started to, to learn and enjoy other things too.

00:16:27.320 | But it took me a while.

00:16:29.080 | I was quite, quite obsessed for the biggest chunk of my career.

00:16:33.840 | Are there things that you think if you knew them earlier in your career, it

00:16:37.680 | would have made it easier to deal with losing?

00:16:41.480 | For sure.

00:16:42.680 | I could have loved to be nicer to myself.

00:16:45.160 | As I, as I said before, it was sometimes too much and maybe that drove me to be

00:16:53.560 | better, to add other skills or to prepare for a game, both mentally and physically

00:16:59.560 | better, but maybe on the satisfaction or happiness level at the present time, I

00:17:07.160 | could have been much better.

00:17:08.840 | So, you know, it's, it's a matter of priorities for sure.

00:17:14.160 | I would tell my, the younger me to be nicer, to relax a little bit, to accept

00:17:20.640 | that sometimes you're going to lose because there's so there's 30 teams and

00:17:24.160 | only one wins.

00:17:25.080 | So those were some of the things that I, I would have liked to accept early on.

00:17:32.760 | Because I, I would say my last three years were wonderful mentally and even

00:17:37.760 | physically because I was 38, 39 and 40.

00:17:40.680 | And I'm basically, I had no, no injuries before I did.

00:17:44.720 | And I was mentally in a great spot that really helped me to, to thrive, even not

00:17:52.360 | having the first step as I used to or the explosiveness.

00:17:55.600 | Yeah.

00:17:56.120 | I mean, you just brought up playing in your late thirties and even at 40.

00:18:00.360 | So I did some homework.

00:18:02.080 | It looks like about 30 people ever have played in the NBA in their forties.

00:18:06.840 | And right now I think there's one player over 37.

00:18:10.760 | So I guess the question is not a long one.

00:18:13.240 | It's how, like, was it diet routine?

00:18:15.840 | Like what led you to do this thing that currently there's one person doing in the

00:18:20.160 | world?

00:18:20.480 | Again, as always, it's a big, big combination of things, right?

00:18:25.200 | I can't underestimate the value of luck.

00:18:29.920 | I never had a big Achilles tendon injury or ACL or NCL or whatever.

00:18:35.760 | Something that could really affect my career.

00:18:39.200 | All my injuries or surgeries were minor scopes.

00:18:42.320 | You miss a month here and there, and then you're back.

00:18:46.400 | So, so that helped, of course.

00:18:49.120 | The other thing that I think I, I did well is to take care of my body, right?

00:18:55.960 | I was never, even when I was young, much of a excess type of guy, I didn't go out.

00:19:01.800 | I didn't do drugs, alcohol.

00:19:03.840 | I had a pretty steady routine towards basketball, but then at 35, when I started

00:19:11.640 | to see more muscular problems, more strains and tears and things like that, I, I had

00:19:18.960 | to make a decision if I was going to just struggle to the end of my career, or if I

00:19:24.600 | was going to be in a good spot, even though, as I said before, I was not going to be

00:19:29.360 | that fast or recover that quick.

00:19:31.640 | But I, at that time I started to adjust my sleeping patterns, eating patterns, my

00:19:39.360 | therapy, stretching and mobility, breathing, and a lot of little tools.

00:19:45.200 | So at 35, I hired my own physio that came and lived with me basically one month, one

00:19:52.840 | week a month, because he lived in Spain and he really took care of me.

00:19:57.360 | The spurs also improved their, their staff and to compliment all that, Pap

00:20:04.120 | started to not play me on back-to-backs.

00:20:06.200 | So I was being very well taken care of by the organization.

00:20:10.880 | I had a good genetic, I guess, code to, to help me to recover quick and not have bad

00:20:16.560 | injuries.

00:20:17.080 | And at the same time, I did my best to be very purposeful on every time I had the

00:20:22.560 | opportunity, every meal, every night, my schedule and all that.

00:20:26.760 | So again, multiple factors.

00:20:29.600 | And what did some of those things you were doing on your own for, for those of us who,

00:20:33.920 | who aren't going to fly someone from Spain in to live with us once a week, what kinds

00:20:37.880 | of changes did you make to sleep, to food or diet or exercise?

00:20:42.400 | No, nothing too surprising.

00:20:44.920 | Things that you heard about a million times, cut down on sugars, white flour, all

00:20:52.240 | the stuff that you could see in a package that you don't know where it came from.

00:20:56.280 | I tried to avoid it.

00:20:57.360 | I made foods that your great grandfather would know what it is a hundred years ago.

00:21:04.000 | Then sleeping and resting every opportunity I had, because before, even though I told

00:21:10.560 | you, I didn't go out, again, finished, arrived home at 11, 12, and I would watch a

00:21:16.680 | movie and hang out with my wife or do something and then didn't really give

00:21:21.400 | importance to sleep.

00:21:23.280 | And then I started to read about it and realize that, that, that was the time where

00:21:28.880 | your muscles, your head, your immune system and everything kind of regroup and your

00:21:36.160 | body recovers quicker if you sleep well and all that.

00:21:38.480 | So sleep, well, food, I mentioned then sometimes with my physio, we came home after

00:21:45.120 | a game and we would work on relaxing some of the muscle groups that worked the most

00:21:51.240 | where it was tight.

00:21:52.120 | The day after we would go and do a mobility routine, stretching.

00:21:56.960 | So it was a lot of work, but it was definitely worth it.

00:22:00.440 | Both the, the, the mental and physical investment.

00:22:04.800 | Yeah.

00:22:05.240 | Did you ever get into any kind of breathing mindfulness kind of training in that

00:22:10.560 | regard?

00:22:10.960 | Yes.

00:22:12.400 | And that also had a role.

00:22:14.840 | I think it was in 2015 when I was starting to consider the possibility of retiring

00:22:22.200 | because I was not in a great spot and meditation with a, with a teacher here in

00:22:28.360 | San Antonio really helped me to, to again, well, we talked before, be less demanding

00:22:35.040 | and less obsessed with the game and just value other things, the present moment and

00:22:40.040 | all that.

00:22:40.360 | So in 2015, I started meditating and, and it had a huge impact on me that first

00:22:47.680 | year to, to enjoy a loss, to, to be present and valuing that at 38, I was still

00:22:56.120 | playing in the NBA in a place where I wanted to be in a city where I wanted to be

00:23:00.160 | with teammates that I wanted to be with.

00:23:01.560 | And that changed the perspective of just the finish goal, right?

00:23:07.040 | If I win the last game, I want a championship meant satisfaction.

00:23:12.200 | If I didn't have, he felt like, well, frustration.

00:23:15.560 | Yeah.

00:23:16.160 | That, that made a big impact on me.

00:23:18.920 | How, how common were some of these techniques in the NBA at the time?

00:23:23.560 | And were they things that you found valuable and shared with people on the team,

00:23:28.760 | at least within your locker room?

00:23:30.080 | No, it was, it was not very common back then.

00:23:33.040 | Now, now I think it is, it's something that is more talked about.

00:23:37.000 | I was kind of not saying hiding it, but I didn't really know.

00:23:41.080 | I thought of I'm skeptical in every aspect of my life, usually, but all of a

00:23:46.720 | sudden I started reading one, two, three of the guys that I listened to a lot or

00:23:51.800 | read, and then I remember I got, actually pop gave me a waking up by, by Sam Harris.

00:24:00.080 | And when I saw this guy that I admire, that I, that I know is a scientist and

00:24:06.080 | went through a lot of stuff and tested things and he was the way he put it out

00:24:12.720 | there, I said, no, I, this is for me too.

00:24:15.600 | So before I thought it was more of a, you know, woo thing.

00:24:20.040 | And then I started to, to appreciate it and practice it.

00:24:26.120 | And I saw great benefit.

00:24:27.920 | Yeah.

00:24:28.720 | And I feel like it's in the recent past become a big thing.

00:24:32.080 | I met, I met someone a few weeks ago who was a mindfulness coach to

00:24:36.280 | some European football leagues on Byron Munich, the team.

00:24:40.120 | He was surprised that that was not a thing anyone had really ever heard

00:24:43.280 | of when he went and talked to them.

00:24:44.960 | And so it's still early days, but it sounds like it had a huge

00:24:48.880 | impact on your last few years.

00:24:50.720 | And I think it's pretty valuable that people are starting to wake up to it.

00:24:53.920 | And, and I think it works outside of professional sports.

00:24:57.040 | I find that I'm more productive on days that I get a good night's sleep and

00:25:01.680 | that I feel good about what I ate.

00:25:03.400 | And it sometimes seems counterintuitive.

00:25:05.440 | You're like, oh, if I, if I sleep less, I have more time to work.

00:25:08.760 | And it's like, no, no.

00:25:09.440 | If you sleep more, your work is better.

00:25:11.520 | Definitely.

00:25:12.760 | I, I couldn't agree more.

00:25:14.480 | After the, after reading Matthew Walker's book about why we sleep, I think it's

00:25:21.040 | called also my perspective changed even more, I knew what was starting to be

00:25:27.320 | valuable, but when he put all the data, all the studies in it, it has nothing to

00:25:33.320 | do, well, it has to do with athletes, but it has to do also with programmers or

00:25:37.360 | lawyers or anybody that wants to be proactive and energetic and healthy and

00:25:46.560 | feeling good about themselves.

00:25:47.800 | So the value of sleep is super, super important and many times

00:25:52.440 | underestimated still to this day.

00:25:54.360 | So I try to advocate for that too.

00:25:56.320 | Whenever I talk to younger generations or, or even companies, because I, for

00:26:03.880 | example, the CEO of any company, I don't want the CEO of any company to do all

00:26:09.600 | night, wake working.

00:26:11.480 | I want them to be asleep and rested and creative for the day after and be in a

00:26:18.160 | good mood to treat their employees well.

00:26:22.400 | So no, it's not about only athletes.

00:26:26.400 | It's about anybody around.

00:26:29.080 | They got to eat well, they got to do exercise and they got to sleep.

00:26:31.960 | Yeah.

00:26:32.640 | How, and so now you went from playing 82 games, practices, playoffs.

00:26:37.520 | I think every year you were at the Spurs.

00:26:39.400 | So now, now you're kind of retired.

00:26:42.360 | You got time on your hands.

00:26:43.880 | I know you're doing some work now with the Spurs, but how

00:26:47.080 | do you spend your time now?

00:26:48.120 | Well, I, I do work out a lot.

00:26:51.680 | I still do.

00:26:52.440 | I play tennis.

00:26:53.680 | I do two things that I couldn't do before.

00:26:55.760 | I don't play basketball at all, zero basketball in the last three and a half

00:27:00.640 | years, but I ride the bike three times a week, play tennis twice, then I'm a father

00:27:06.440 | of three boys and that's a lot of work always, I start, I'm starting to get

00:27:11.960 | slowly into BC, the Spurs also hire me this year to do some consulting.

00:27:18.360 | So I'm spending time with them.

00:27:20.040 | So I keep plenty busy, man.

00:27:23.120 | I, I love what I do.

00:27:25.080 | I love my flexibility of time.

00:27:26.920 | I like my peace of mind being present for my family and traveling with them.

00:27:32.520 | I couldn't be in a, in a better spot.

00:27:35.800 | It seems like with every business, you get to a certain size

00:27:39.200 | and the cracks start to emerge.

00:27:41.160 | Things that you used to do in a day are taking a week and you have too

00:27:45.080 | many manual processes and there's no one source of truth.

00:27:48.280 | If this is you, you should know these three numbers, 37,025, one.

00:27:54.520 | 37,000.

00:27:55.920 | That's the number of businesses which have upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle.

00:27:59.440 | And I'm excited to partner with them for this episode.

00:28:02.160 | NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system, streamlining

00:28:05.480 | accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, and more.

00:28:08.800 | 25, NetSuite turns 25 this year.

00:28:12.200 | That's 25 years of helping businesses do more with less, close their books

00:28:16.840 | in days, not weeks and drive down costs.

00:28:19.720 | And one, because your business is one of a kind.

00:28:23.320 | So you get a customized solution for all your KPIs in one efficient

00:28:27.920 | system with one source of truth.

00:28:30.040 | Manage risk, get reliable forecasts and improve margins.

00:28:33.680 | Everything you need to grow all in one place, which I can tell you from all the

00:28:38.080 | companies I've run makes everything so much better.

00:28:40.840 | So right now download NetSuite's popular KPI checklist designed to give you

00:28:46.120 | consistently excellent performance, absolutely free at allthehacks.com/netsuite.

00:28:52.640 | That's allthehacks.com/netsuite to get your own KPI checklist.

00:28:57.720 | allthehacks.com/netsuite, N-E-T-S-U-I-T-E.

00:29:02.880 | I wish I could say that I'm eating a fully balanced diet every day, but the

00:29:08.280 | reality is that I am definitely not.

00:29:10.360 | So I love having an easy way to get my daily nutritional insurance, which is

00:29:15.040 | why I kickstart my day with Athletic Greens, and I am excited to be

00:29:18.720 | partnering with them for this episode.

00:29:20.320 | I started taking it because I wanted to see what all the hype was about and I've

00:29:24.360 | kept it in my daily routine for months.

00:29:27.160 | Every morning I mix it up with some cold water, add a few ice cubes.

00:29:30.760 | It tastes so good when it's cold and I head to my office feeling focused and

00:29:35.040 | energized for the day, which is a feeling I absolutely love.

00:29:38.560 | I also love that it's made from 75 high quality vitamins, minerals, and superfoods

00:29:43.760 | and contains less than one gram of sugar.

00:29:46.280 | It also has no GMOs, nasty chemicals, or artificial anything.

00:29:50.400 | To make giving it a try easy, Athletic Greens is going to give you a free one

00:29:55.080 | year supply of immune supporting vitamin D and five free travel

00:29:59.360 | packs with your first purchase.

00:30:01.000 | All you have to do is visit allthehacks.com/athleticgreens.

00:30:06.400 | Again, that's allthehacks.com/athleticgreens to take ownership

00:30:11.640 | over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance.

00:30:15.400 | Now you're not a, an NBA player and you're just, just a dad doing some side

00:30:19.840 | jobs and enjoying time with the family.

00:30:22.520 | You mentioned you're biking, you mentioned you're playing tennis.

00:30:25.640 | What advice to anyone listening here that's similarly in their late thirties,

00:30:30.600 | early forties, couple of kids trying to get in shape.

00:30:33.600 | What have you learned about exercise and fitness, your career?

00:30:36.760 | Obviously you have a very gifted set of genetics, but what, what would people

00:30:41.000 | take home as, as ways to kind of really keep exercise and fitness in their routine?

00:30:46.400 | That you have to do it, that it doesn't only help your body, your muscles, your

00:30:51.720 | bones, but your head too, your, your head needs a healthy, active body.

00:30:58.800 | So some people may not start because they think they can ride 30 miles or they can

00:31:05.200 | run for 10 K or, or swim a bunch of laps.

00:31:09.360 | But you start with a step and, and there's a million things nowadays you can do.

00:31:14.200 | There's, there are workouts online for anybody.

00:31:17.160 | Now with a, with a band attached to a door, you can do a full workout.

00:31:22.400 | You can buy one kettlebell and do as many swings as you want.

00:31:28.240 | It's a matter of convincing yourself and ideally doing it with somebody else that

00:31:33.840 | can, you can challenge yourself and you can have some accountability.

00:31:37.400 | But before you used to have a membership, you needed a membership to a, to a gym or

00:31:44.640 | you needed a bike or going somewhere or having a coach.

00:31:49.920 | Now you can do it with a band and it's, there are so many options and it's, it's

00:31:54.840 | going to affect your mood.

00:31:56.000 | It's going to affect your health.

00:31:57.400 | So yeah, there are no excuses.

00:32:00.200 | You just got to convince yourself that you got to do it.

00:32:02.800 | Yeah.

00:32:03.440 | And do you ever have days where you wake up and you're like, I just don't want to

00:32:06.600 | do it, uh, today, I'm just not going to take that bike ride.

00:32:09.640 | Or, or if you have that feeling, how do you end up on the bike?

00:32:13.840 | I tell you this story because I loved it.

00:32:15.680 | My first year and a half or two years, I was lifting too.

00:32:19.840 | Now I'm not lifting.

00:32:20.840 | I got to go back to it, but I, I was going two or three times a week to the, to the

00:32:26.560 | spurs to, to lift when the guys were gone, I was going in and having a, uh, doing my

00:32:32.920 | routine and I was enjoying it.

00:32:35.040 | I was, I was fine.

00:32:36.120 | But this one day I get to the facility, I look at the weights, I say, you know what?

00:32:42.840 | I don't feel like it today.

00:32:44.120 | I turned around, I went back home and I felt like a million bucks.

00:32:47.760 | Nobody, nobody tells me to do it.

00:32:50.840 | I just doing it because I want.

00:32:52.440 | And if I don't, I don't do it.

00:32:54.320 | And the same with the bike.

00:32:55.880 | The thing is that there are way more times that I want to do it, that I enjoy, you

00:33:00.200 | know, being outdoors and riding on the creeks with trees.

00:33:04.000 | And I just love also the, the, the feeling that you get once you're done.

00:33:10.520 | And so it's, it is again, I'm in a very privileged situation and I do it because I

00:33:18.840 | love it.

00:33:19.200 | Yeah, that's great.

00:33:20.360 | I've got a Peloton.

00:33:21.320 | And so I started biking and I was one of those crazy people that had never actually

00:33:24.640 | biked outside really.

00:33:26.000 | I mean, obviously I've ridden a bicycle, but finally we got bikes and we got a seat

00:33:29.760 | for the, our daughter.

00:33:31.040 | And I was like, wow, this is great.

00:33:32.640 | Now I'm like getting back into biking outside.

00:33:35.880 | It's fun.

00:33:36.440 | And, and I find that when your exercise is something fun to do with someone, I can't

00:33:40.960 | remember, I listened to a podcast and someone said they started exercising with their

00:33:43.680 | partner and I'd always thought of that, but my wife and I started running together.

00:33:48.360 | And then we were like, oh, that's fun.

00:33:49.480 | Like the more you can make your exercise fun, I think the easier it is to get out and

00:33:53.320 | do it.

00:33:53.680 | And accountability is huge.

00:33:55.600 | Yeah, for sure.

00:33:57.200 | And people are coming with great ideas.

00:34:00.040 | They are, they are gamifying the, the exercise.

00:34:03.720 | They're giving you tools.

00:34:05.120 | They're going, they're making, making it easy to do it.

00:34:08.760 | So there are a bunch of startups and ideas and machines and, and kettlebells and bands

00:34:16.760 | that can help multiple group muscles and cardio and all that.

00:34:21.320 | So it's, it's great.

00:34:23.280 | Yeah.

00:34:23.720 | You mentioned startups.

00:34:24.760 | I know you also mentioned you're, you're getting involved with VC.

00:34:27.680 | What has it been like to transition from someone focused on one complete industry so

00:34:32.480 | much to, to dive deep into a totally different industry where I'm sure you probably now

00:34:37.800 | look up to investors and founders and say, oh, I got a lot to learn.

00:34:40.840 | And they all look up to you and say, oh my gosh, legendary basketball player.

00:34:44.040 | What's it, what's it like entering a totally different industry in this part of

00:34:47.600 | your career?

00:34:48.080 | I always admired that industry.

00:34:50.840 | I, I love tech and I try to, to dig into new ideas, software, hardware, try to learn,

00:34:59.640 | try to stay current and, and informed, but now with a little more time and some people

00:35:06.320 | that I met, they, they got me closer to it.

00:35:09.080 | And I, I find it fascinating.

00:35:12.560 | I'm so clueless about all this world that it is very exciting to go and listen to these

00:35:18.920 | people and how they came up with the idea, what they are trying to do, accomplish, how

00:35:24.000 | they set up the mission, how they recruit the team.

00:35:27.280 | So I'm just at this point trying to be a fly in the wall, trying to learn, trying to

00:35:32.120 | figure it out and be next to very smart people that know what they're doing, that they

00:35:37.240 | have done it before.

00:35:38.320 | So I'm not in a rush to do anything.

00:35:40.840 | I don't, I don't, I'm not in it for, for the money.

00:35:43.440 | I just like the thrill, the, the, the opportunities that these startups are giving

00:35:49.640 | us to make our lives better or the environment better.

00:35:53.120 | So I I'm there to, to learn because I was always, was curious about it.

00:35:57.440 | And at the same time, I also was able to build the capital and have the luxury to put

00:36:05.160 | just a little bit, little part of it and try to contribute and hopefully get a good

00:36:10.560 | return on the investment.

00:36:11.560 | But it's been very exciting to, to be part of the one, some of those meetings.

00:36:15.720 | And they also, I also learned that they want to know my side of the story, how I was

00:36:21.160 | part of teams and organizations and the examples of leadership or going through tough

00:36:27.800 | times or resiliency and all that.

00:36:29.800 | So I guess we are both learning.

00:36:32.920 | Yeah.

00:36:33.720 | I'm jealous of the stats you have, though.

00:36:35.680 | I was thinking about how there's a lot of commonalities between running a company,

00:36:40.120 | you're working on a team, you're all trying to compete with other companies.

00:36:43.320 | And then I was like, man, it must be both terrifying and wonderful to know that there

00:36:48.840 | are just stats that help you understand how you're doing and you can compare yourself

00:36:52.920 | against other people.

00:36:53.880 | Now you're experiencing a world outside of stats.

00:36:57.160 | It's like, oh, how am I doing now?

00:36:59.000 | I have to rely on feedback and conversations and feel myself worth more than I can just

00:37:03.560 | say, oh, well, obviously I put up this many points last night.

00:37:06.200 | I did a good job.

00:37:06.920 | It is a completely different world.

00:37:09.320 | That's why I'm going with very humble objectives, just to listen to stories, to, to

00:37:16.120 | to try to contribute to causes and things that I care about, that I'm interested in.

00:37:22.760 | So again, I take it as a completely learning experience and trying at the same time to

00:37:31.000 | contribute to causes that I care about or values that I care about.

00:37:37.320 | So I'm putting my intention in those aspects.

00:37:42.440 | Yeah, and you mentioned earlier your father was in basketball.

00:37:47.160 | I mentioned the stats of that, making you more likely to be in there.

00:37:50.360 | Do you think basketball will play a big role in in your time going forward?

00:37:54.680 | I know you're working a little with the Spurs, but you haven't touched a basketball

00:37:58.200 | in three years.

00:37:58.840 | The other day I grabbed it.

00:38:01.000 | I wanted to shoot 10 shots to see how it felt.

00:38:04.760 | I couldn't make one zero for 10 threes.

00:38:07.800 | And it was unbelievable muscle memories.

00:38:10.680 | Incredible.

00:38:11.160 | It's been three years and I dedicated basically 30 years of my life to shooting hooks and

00:38:17.240 | I couldn't make one.

00:38:18.600 | So it's amazing.

00:38:20.040 | Amazing.

00:38:20.840 | But at the same time, I, with all my experiences, background, where I came from the

00:38:25.880 | languages that I played in many places in Italy, in Argentina, Olympics, World Cups

00:38:33.160 | and all that, you know, gave me some insider information that is still very valuable.

00:38:38.120 | And I wanted to share, I wanted to talk to the younger generations to tell them that

00:38:42.760 | the mistakes I made, the things that really worked for me, what I wish I knew earlier

00:38:49.800 | as we talked before.

00:38:50.760 | So in some way, I'm trying to contribute to the organization in that aspect.

00:38:57.480 | The thing is that I'm still not ready to go full time.

00:39:01.160 | I, I don't want to lose my freedom to, to go to Argentina, for example, now in December

00:39:07.880 | and January that it's summer there.

00:39:09.560 | I don't want to lose the opportunity to go spring break with the kids in March because

00:39:16.120 | they have a week off their school.

00:39:18.280 | So I'm starting to go back and be connected to the game.

00:39:24.680 | I'm still not that committed to be like all in.

00:39:30.280 | And I don't even know if it's ever going to happen.

00:39:32.840 | We'll see when my kids are older.

00:39:35.080 | But at this point, I, again, I'm loving where my position, my privilege.

00:39:40.840 | We've talked a lot on the show about financial independence.

00:39:43.960 | And part of that is, is to buy the time and be able to spend time doing what you want,

00:39:48.200 | which you're clearly doing.

00:39:49.160 | What's been the greatest challenge you've had since leaving basketball?

00:39:53.800 | I really didn't have any challenges.

00:39:56.360 | I, I, I've been really enjoying it.

00:39:58.360 | I thought I was going to be a little antsy to, to feel that adrenaline rush, the, the

00:40:06.600 | pressure and the responsibility.

00:40:09.720 | But I really don't.

00:40:10.680 | Actually, I went through it for a long time.

00:40:15.480 | I, I had to, to live with that pressure, with that responsibility.

00:40:21.400 | And, and I'm not seeking it.

00:40:23.640 | I'm just, again, loving my peace of mind.

00:40:27.240 | So I do miss a little bit the, the locker room, the camaraderie, the dinners after the

00:40:31.960 | game where we just hang out and talk about stuff and, or preparing together for a, one

00:40:37.880 | of those games.

00:40:38.520 | But again, I, I'm having a great life.

00:40:41.800 | I, I'm enjoying the time with my family and going ride the bike for 20, 30 miles in the

00:40:49.400 | outdoors.

00:40:50.040 | So I really didn't face the challenges that I was afraid I was going to live, but maybe

00:40:56.760 | also that I, it took me a while to, the last three years of my career, I was kind of preparing

00:41:02.040 | for this time.

00:41:03.240 | So I did a lot of things to be sure that I was going to be in a good spot.

00:41:08.360 | And I have a great family.

00:41:09.640 | My wife is great, very patient with me too.

00:41:12.120 | So I, I really, I didn't face any challenges so far.

00:41:16.360 | Was there anything you did with your family and your relationship during what I can only

00:41:22.040 | imagine was a very busy season to keep that, that relationship strong with your family?

00:41:27.960 | I know lots of people, whether you're starting a company or playing sports, it's hard.

00:41:33.080 | You're away a lot and you put a lot of weight on, on your spouse's shoulders.

00:41:37.640 | What, what let you get through that?

00:41:39.640 | It sounds like you're in a great spot right now after a lot of years.

00:41:43.880 | A lot of years.

00:41:44.680 | And I'm telling you, she, she's been with me since my last year in Italy.

00:41:50.280 | So she went through all my career in the NBA and I don't know, I guess I got lucky with

00:41:56.600 | her that she was always very patient and all my craziness and that she took all the summers

00:42:01.880 | off.

00:42:02.200 | Like the summers where I was supposed to spend time with, with her and my family, many times,

00:42:08.120 | I just went to play workups and Olympic games.

00:42:10.280 | And it was not an easy time for her, but I guess she understood it, how I felt and how

00:42:17.800 | important it was for me.

00:42:19.480 | The kids were too little, so they didn't really know what was happening.

00:42:22.920 | But now we are in a place where we have that flexibility that she's more of the priority.

00:42:29.080 | So the priority on where she wants to go and what she wants to do.

00:42:32.760 | And I try to help her a lot with the kids and be present.

00:42:37.400 | So she's, she's enjoying that part too.

00:42:40.840 | But I guess we were lucky to find each other.

00:42:43.480 | Yeah, I feel similarly, and I've gone through a lot of crazy startup stuff and, and

00:42:49.240 | finding someone to go through that with you.

00:42:50.920 | I assume that was helpful along the way when you're stressed out about losing and all these

00:42:55.000 | things.

00:42:55.720 | Well, that was huge because as I told you, I was very tough on myself.

00:43:00.440 | So many times, especially earlier, I brought that frustration home too.

00:43:09.320 | And I, I didn't want to talk about the game and I was moody, but then slowly we started

00:43:15.480 | to, to figure it out each other saying, okay, she's not going to mention even the game that

00:43:20.600 | just finished.

00:43:21.320 | And I'm going to leave that game that just finished in the locker room.

00:43:26.920 | And then after big losses or huge wins, we were going to just hang out, enjoy the kids

00:43:33.560 | or do things that I had no connection to my job.

00:43:36.280 | And we found a great chemistry there.

00:43:40.920 | So I was never, I never brought basketball at home for my wife, parents, friends, whenever

00:43:50.120 | somebody came to San Antonio to hang out with me and, you know, spend quality time.

00:43:55.240 | It was just about us, what was happening in the world or whatever, but no basketball.

00:44:00.440 | Basketball was from the locker room and in, never out.

00:44:08.120 | So I am quite comfortable right now, which is actually true almost every day.

00:44:12.440 | And that's thanks to Viore.

00:44:13.800 | And I'm excited to be partnering with them for this episode.

00:44:16.680 | They make performance apparel.

00:44:18.200 | That's incredibly versatile.

00:44:19.960 | Everything is designed to work out in, but it doesn't look or feel like it at all.

00:44:24.120 | And it's so freaking comfortable.

00:44:25.880 | You will want to wear it all the time.

00:44:27.720 | Seriously.

00:44:28.280 | I am pretty sure it's more comfortable than whatever you're wearing right now, unless

00:44:32.040 | you're wearing Viore, in which case you already know what I mean.

00:44:34.840 | And it's not just for men.

00:44:36.680 | My wife is as obsessed with Viore as I am.

00:44:39.480 | My favorite is the Sunday Performance Joggers.

00:44:42.040 | I think I have three pairs and they are probably the most comfortable pants I've ever owned.

00:44:46.600 | Their products can be used for just about any activity, whether it's running, training

00:44:51.000 | or yoga.

00:44:51.960 | They're also great for lounging, running around town, or their MetaPants can even work for

00:44:56.280 | a night out.

00:44:56.920 | Honestly, I think Viore is an investment in your happiness.

00:45:00.440 | And for All The Hacks listeners, they are offering 20% off your first purchase, as well

00:45:05.080 | as free shipping and returns on U.S. orders over $75.

00:45:08.680 | So you should definitely check them out at allthehacks.com/viore or in the link in the

00:45:15.880 | show notes.

00:45:16.840 | Again, go to allthehacks.com/v-u-o-r-i and get yourself some of the most comfortable

00:45:25.080 | and versatile clothing on the planet.

00:45:29.000 | There is nothing I love more than learning that something I enjoy is actually so good

00:45:33.480 | for you.

00:45:34.040 | And nothing showcases that better than Pu-Erh tea.

00:45:36.840 | It has so many health benefits and I think one of the best and easiest ways to consume

00:45:41.080 | it is from our sponsor today, Peak Tea.

00:45:43.720 | Peak's Pu-Erh teas are all cold extracted using only wild harvested leaves from 250

00:45:49.720 | year old tea trees, rich in minerals, theraflavins and catechins.

00:45:54.360 | Then everything is triple toxin screened for pesticides, heavy minerals and toxic mold

00:45:59.640 | commonly found in plants.

00:46:01.480 | And Peak's products are so easy and zero prep because they're all in pre-measured

00:46:06.360 | quantities that dissolve in cold or hot water in seconds and are so travel friendly.

00:46:12.040 | They have so many products, but lately I've been alternating between the green Pu-Erh

00:46:16.600 | for mental clarity and energy and the black Pu-Erh which helps kickstart digestion and

00:46:21.400 | metabolism with a rich earthy flavor that is so good and probably one of my favorite

00:46:26.520 | things to drink.

00:46:27.640 | And if you need another reason, search for all the amazing research backed benefits of

00:46:31.480 | polyphenols for your gut microbiome, heart, blood sugar and more and then be happy that

00:46:36.360 | Pu-Erh is more concentrated in polyphenols than all other teas in the world.

00:46:40.680 | But you don't even have to take my word or do any research because Peak offers free US

00:46:45.080 | shipping, free returns and a money backed guarantee.

00:46:48.280 | And for a limited time, you can get up to 15% off and a free quiver with 12 tea samples

00:46:54.200 | at my link at allthehacks.com/peak.

00:46:57.800 | That's P-I-Q-U-E.

00:47:00.040 | So check them out today at allthehacks.com/peak.

00:47:03.880 | P-I-Q-U-E.

00:47:05.320 | I just want to thank you quick for listening to and supporting the show.

00:47:10.680 | Your support is what keeps this show going.

00:47:13.480 | To get all of the URLs, codes, deals and discounts from our partners.

00:47:17.960 | You can go to allthehacks.com/deals.

00:47:21.560 | So please consider supporting those who support us.

00:47:24.440 | Yeah.

00:47:25.800 | What about with your kids?

00:47:27.160 | I know you grew up with a family of basketball players and you obviously grew up to be quite

00:47:32.840 | successful.

00:47:33.480 | Are your kids learning to play basketball yet?

00:47:35.880 | They are.

00:47:36.920 | They are learning and they love it and they try to watch everything.

00:47:39.720 | So now I'm watching more.

00:47:41.560 | We play a little fantasy game with other families and they absolutely love it.

00:47:47.160 | And now I'm way more relaxed.

00:47:50.360 | Now I don't care about talking about basketball.

00:47:52.280 | I mean, I'm happy to do.

00:47:54.520 | So when they do ask questions on what used to happen back then, how I was, you know,

00:47:58.600 | ex-players, then we do talk.

00:48:01.480 | But during my years of complete obsession, basketball was not mentioned at home.

00:48:08.200 | Wow.

00:48:08.840 | Yeah, I struggle with that because my wife and I work at the same company.

00:48:12.840 | So talking about work at home is something that on one hand, we're fortunate that we've

00:48:17.160 | usually...

00:48:17.640 | I never want to come home and say, "Oh, guess what's happening at work?"

00:48:20.200 | Because she already knows.

00:48:21.160 | So I guess maybe that was my hack, was if you want to avoid talking about work at home,

00:48:25.480 | if you both work at the same place, you can kind of all be on the same page all the time.

00:48:29.560 | But that's a good point.

00:48:30.680 | But no, in my case, everybody was...

00:48:32.680 | Nobody's in the locker room.

00:48:34.520 | Nobody knows what the coach said or what the instructions were.

00:48:39.000 | So when somebody was criticizing that somebody didn't pass it to who or that your defense

00:48:43.720 | was not good or they didn't know what was happening indoors, we did and we talked about

00:48:48.520 | it and we watched videos and we analyzed and we were...

00:48:50.920 | Oh, it was too much.

00:48:53.240 | So whenever I got home, I needed to be able to not think that much.

00:48:59.800 | Yeah.

00:49:00.840 | Well, that's good that you could get on the same page.

00:49:02.840 | So while we've talked a lot about basketball in your career, that wasn't what brought us

00:49:07.800 | together.

00:49:08.360 | And I know we've connected through you listening to some podcasts that I was on with Kevin

00:49:14.680 | Rose, and we've shared some conversations about money and travel.

00:49:18.040 | So I want to start off with something I found on Twitter that in 2011, you said this was

00:49:24.280 | the year you became a minivan dad and that you were proud of it.

00:49:27.880 | And since technically, I think this is a finance podcast, at least a little bit.

00:49:32.760 | Athletes so often go bankrupt, they spend lavishly.

00:49:36.520 | You seem to have the smallest ego of any athlete I've heard talk.

00:49:41.080 | How did you end up down this different path where I can't imagine that the hottest car

00:49:46.120 | for an NBA athlete in 2011 was a minivan?

00:49:48.680 | Yeah, it wasn't.

00:49:50.360 | It really wasn't.

00:49:51.080 | I thought it was the best we could get for having twins.

00:49:57.800 | We had twins.

00:49:58.520 | We had a bunch of stuff to put in there.

00:50:00.360 | We have a dog.

00:50:01.160 | And after doing some research, I mean, the van is the way to go.

00:50:06.200 | And it took me a while to convince my wife.

00:50:08.760 | My wife didn't want anything to do with it.

00:50:12.200 | And I said, I think you're going to love it.

00:50:14.280 | And we are going to be so comfortable.

00:50:16.200 | And the kids were too little to leave them in school.

00:50:18.520 | So I did it.

00:50:20.920 | And we were very happy about it.

00:50:23.000 | We still are, actually.

00:50:24.200 | We still are.

00:50:24.760 | You know, we are 10 years later.

00:50:26.120 | We're still our minivan dads.

00:50:28.120 | She drives it more than me now.

00:50:30.440 | But I remember one time we were playing.

00:50:33.160 | I don't remember where he was back then, but I was shooting free throws.

00:50:37.400 | And Tyson Chandler comes to me and says, so you have a minivan too?

00:50:42.600 | We are two in the NBA now.

00:50:44.840 | I say, no, we are three.

00:50:46.040 | I got a friend in Brooklyn that has one too.

00:50:48.680 | So we were three players probably in the NBA driving minivans.

00:50:52.520 | So very small minority.

00:50:54.200 | Yeah.

00:50:54.840 | Not just minivans, but watches and all kinds of things to spend money on.

00:50:59.480 | Do you think it was growing up internationally?

00:51:03.160 | Or what do you think helped you not go down the path so many athletes go down

00:51:06.920 | when they make money and end up spending it all so quickly?

00:51:10.280 | I never attached my self-esteem to a possession.

00:51:15.720 | So that would be how to summarize it.

00:51:20.200 | The car I drove or the clothes I wore or jewelry never meant anything for me.

00:51:27.880 | So yeah, I never felt like I had to show that I was doing good.

00:51:33.400 | That what I did was showing it.

00:51:36.440 | That I was playing for the team I wanted to play.

00:51:39.080 | We were winning championships.

00:51:41.240 | I let that do the talking.

00:51:44.600 | So I never felt like I had to show where I was.

00:51:49.800 | I guess the ego was part of it too.

00:51:51.480 | I never had a strong one and I never wanted to or cared about living lavishly.

00:51:59.480 | Of course, I have a great house.

00:52:00.840 | I played in the NBA for many years.

00:52:04.600 | That helped me make a lot of money and I could live well.

00:52:07.960 | But I never felt like I needed to dress flashy or drive half a million dollar car.

00:52:14.520 | So it was not my thing.

00:52:16.600 | Is there a thing in life that you love that you're willing to upgrade and enjoy

00:52:21.400 | outside of the stuff that you just kind of live in a more standard way?

00:52:25.080 | Well, I like living in a very nice house.

00:52:29.400 | So if I have to splurge, I'll do it on that.

00:52:33.400 | I like to travel.

00:52:34.600 | So when we travel, we don't go to the most economic places.

00:52:41.400 | I mean, we choose the place where we're going to go and we go there.

00:52:45.880 | And we believe that those moments with the family or having a great trip and

00:52:51.560 | traveling business, it is a priority because it enhances how much we enjoy the experience.

00:52:59.560 | And we do it.

00:53:00.600 | But then again, I don't need to drive my kids to school in a car that costs $300,000 or $500,000.

00:53:09.080 | For me, it doesn't add anything to my way of living.

00:53:15.560 | I mean, you say that travel is the place that you'll spend on.

00:53:18.920 | But I also happen to know from our conversations that you dabble a little bit in the game of

00:53:24.760 | credit card points and miles.

00:53:26.200 | So how did you get into that?

00:53:28.280 | We all have credit cards.

00:53:30.440 | And then I started to get those that you can add more points and then use it for traveling

00:53:36.920 | and business.

00:53:37.720 | So I guess I listened to somebody talking about it.

00:53:40.600 | And I knew I had a million points with my credit card.

00:53:45.080 | And I was not using it.

00:53:46.440 | So all of a sudden, I searched for ways to travel and or upgrade tickets.

00:53:54.600 | And I get to this website.

00:53:56.920 | I think it is the points guy or something like that.

00:53:59.880 | And I started to dig in and get it going in the rabbit hole and reading.

00:54:05.560 | I said, oh, my God, look at this.

00:54:07.480 | This is a word that I had no idea about.

00:54:10.840 | So I started to get curious and get different cards for different points.

00:54:16.680 | So currently, I have millions of points that I'm not really using it.

00:54:22.920 | I used them last year.

00:54:23.960 | For example, we are five and we traveled to Argentina.

00:54:26.520 | We flew in business and I used them with miles.

00:54:29.160 | And it was learning from you, Chris.

00:54:32.120 | A great deal.

00:54:33.960 | I got a good deal.

00:54:35.640 | But overall, I don't use them.

00:54:39.000 | So I'm good at crewing.

00:54:40.360 | I'm not used.

00:54:41.240 | I'm not good using them yet.

00:54:43.240 | So working on that.

00:54:44.520 | But again, wherever we decide to go next summer, it's not going to depend on where I get the

00:54:52.040 | best deal, where we want to go.

00:54:54.040 | We'll see with my wife and we'll decide, OK, we want to do a safari in Africa or we want

00:54:58.360 | to do go to Costa Rica or Fiji, whatever, whatever we decide we're going to do.

00:55:03.400 | That's the priority.

00:55:05.000 | Then if I get the points, if I get the perks of the million points that I have, great.

00:55:11.880 | We'll do it.

00:55:12.440 | If not, we'll just go there and use the points at a different time.

00:55:15.960 | But I, you know, since I am spending a lot of money in credit cards every year, I thought,

00:55:21.880 | OK, let's accumulate these points if they are there to grab.

00:55:25.480 | And I tried to optimize my spending.

00:55:28.440 | And yeah, true.

00:55:29.240 | I learned a lot from you, Chris.

00:55:31.160 | And how many cards are you using now?

00:55:32.920 | Five.

00:55:35.000 | Are you proud of me?

00:55:35.880 | I was going to go for three.

00:55:37.160 | So five.

00:55:37.720 | No, I got five.

00:55:39.800 | One business one, Amex, Visa, another Amex.

00:55:45.000 | And the fifth one is, I know I just got it from my wife, another one.

00:55:49.880 | So my wife, my wife is pissed at you.

00:55:52.200 | She doesn't like you because I kept telling her, well, you go to the supermarket, use

00:55:56.600 | this one.

00:55:57.080 | And she used the other one and gets yelled at.

00:55:59.960 | But it's just a way of optimizing and trying to accumulate more points.

00:56:05.880 | But we are not crazy about it.

00:56:07.400 | Yeah.

00:56:08.040 | The way it all changes is you go on some really, really expensive trip.

00:56:11.560 | Let's say you decide we're flying on Emirates.

00:56:13.560 | We have our suites on the plane.

00:56:15.720 | And then you're drinking Dom and you're like, hey, this was 100% free.

00:56:21.640 | Zero dollars.

00:56:22.760 | That moment is when the switch flipped.

00:56:25.960 | I heard those stories and I'm ready to test them.

00:56:30.280 | The thing is that we are just not going that far nowadays.

00:56:33.880 | We're going to Argentina.

00:56:34.920 | We don't have those flights.

00:56:35.960 | And we are going to mainly near here.

00:56:40.600 | The kids are still kind of young.

00:56:43.160 | So but soon, soon we are going to start following your advice.

00:56:47.320 | Where are places you want to go that are on your list for when maybe the world opens up?

00:56:51.640 | The immediate one is Safari in Africa.

00:56:55.560 | We do want to take the kids.

00:56:57.480 | My wife wanted to go there for four years.

00:57:00.280 | And that's something that is in the immediate bucket list.

00:57:05.240 | Then Italy, Spain.

00:57:07.240 | There are two places that we spent some time in.

00:57:10.200 | We actually lived in Italy for four years.

00:57:13.240 | We want to go back.

00:57:14.120 | We believe that the kids need to be a little older.

00:57:17.320 | They get more bored in there.

00:57:19.000 | There's not too much to do.

00:57:20.840 | But soon we'll go back because I miss it.

00:57:23.000 | And I haven't been back in Italy in 15 years.

00:57:25.960 | So those are the two immediate ones.

00:57:29.640 | Then, of course, Australia and New Zealand are coming soon.

00:57:33.480 | The problem is that the time of the weather, December and January, we want to be in Argentina.

00:57:39.160 | It's when we enjoy the summer with our friends and family.

00:57:43.000 | So eventually, Australia and New Zealand are coming.

00:57:45.480 | Yeah.

00:57:45.960 | Yeah.

00:57:46.520 | I also remember, I think it's tough to get from South America to Africa and to Australia and New Zealand.

00:57:53.800 | I don't know if there are flights now, but there used to be.

00:57:56.040 | The only way to get from Argentina to Africa was to go up to Europe or the US.

00:58:00.520 | Well, yes.

00:58:02.120 | Whenever we go to Africa, it's going to be from here.

00:58:04.440 | But I took a flight that I don't think they do it anymore.

00:58:09.400 | Or maybe Air New Zealand does it.

00:58:11.000 | But it goes under.

00:58:13.960 | So from Argentina to Auckland, there's a direct flight, 17-hour flight,

00:58:21.480 | that goes through the Southern Pole.

00:58:24.600 | It's pretty cool.

00:58:26.120 | I've done it, actually, with the Argentinians in 1997 to play a U21 World Cup.

00:58:32.040 | And we were fired up to do that.

00:58:34.840 | And a couple of years ago, New Zealand was starting to do it.

00:58:38.360 | Now, with all this, probably they're not.

00:58:40.840 | But no, probably not 100%.

00:58:42.920 | They're not.

00:58:44.200 | So most of the trips are starting from Texas.

00:58:49.560 | Okay.

00:58:50.280 | And what kind of travel are you?

00:58:51.880 | I heard somewhere on the internet that you have a no-room-service rule.

00:58:55.320 | But what's your style of travel when you get to a new place?

00:58:58.680 | No, the no-room-service was when I was playing.

00:59:02.760 | Most of my teammates just got to a city and stayed inside

00:59:08.440 | from the minute they got there to the minute they left.

00:59:12.280 | They went just to a place and I couldn't take that.

00:59:14.600 | I'm not American.

00:59:15.400 | I didn't know any of the cities.

00:59:17.880 | I got drafted and I didn't know what San Antonio was.

00:59:20.680 | Where was it?

00:59:21.320 | What Texas was?

00:59:22.200 | I had no clue.

00:59:22.920 | So by the time I got here, I said, "No, I want to see these cities.

00:59:27.640 | I want to walk the city.

00:59:30.600 | I want to see what they are about."

00:59:32.360 | And of course, I had to combine that with the performance part that I wanted to do good.

00:59:38.760 | So whenever there was an opportunity, I went out and I walked and I visited places

00:59:43.880 | and I ate at restaurants.

00:59:47.160 | Most of the times, whenever an Argentinian gets to the league,

00:59:52.280 | they call me for like, "Where can I go in Milwaukee?"

00:59:55.960 | So I'll go to my list and text them.

00:59:58.600 | Anything on your list that are just standouts across the country that people should check out?

01:00:05.240 | Well, a lot of people are not excited when they go to Oklahoma City, for example.

01:00:09.560 | But probably my favorite steakhouse is in Oklahoma City.

01:00:14.520 | So...

01:00:15.400 | Which one?

01:00:16.200 | And it's called Red.

01:00:17.880 | And you go there and you order the skirt steak with truffle risotto.

01:00:21.320 | It's like I had to do.

01:00:22.520 | So it's something that I did.

01:00:24.920 | I've done the last 10 years that I went to.

01:00:28.120 | Okay, see, I went to that restaurant and I ate that dish because it's outstanding.

01:00:34.120 | And we did it with my crew, right?

01:00:36.280 | We had teammates that we were going and we all enjoyed that dish.

01:00:41.240 | But I had little things in almost every city.

01:00:44.280 | There are some cities that you play...

01:00:45.880 | The cities on the East, you go only one time a year.

01:00:49.800 | And many times it's in a back-to-back or it's in January.

01:00:52.760 | And in Toronto, it's minus 20 degrees.

01:00:55.320 | So you don't get to do much.

01:00:57.000 | But the other cities that I played playoffs or that I've been so many times,

01:01:00.840 | then you start to learn places to go.

01:01:03.720 | Yeah.

01:01:04.120 | What about Argentina?

01:01:05.400 | You probably know it better than most.

01:01:07.880 | If anyone's listening, heading to Argentina, any must-do's?

01:01:11.000 | Many, many must-do's.

01:01:14.040 | The only problem with us is that we are a big country too.

01:01:16.440 | And people think that they'll go to Argentina and get it done in a couple of days.

01:01:21.000 | And it's big.

01:01:22.200 | So you got in the Northeast, the amazing Iguazu waterfalls.

01:01:27.160 | Something incredible that everybody should witness.

01:01:31.560 | But bring a change of clothes.

01:01:33.000 | So my experience in Iguazu was I was completely head-to-toe drenched.

01:01:39.080 | Not a single dry spot.

01:01:41.160 | Yes, I agree.

01:01:43.480 | Very humid.

01:01:44.680 | It's the jungle.

01:01:45.880 | But it's worth witnessing.

01:01:47.800 | In the South, we got the glaciers that are just outstanding too.

01:01:53.480 | Perito Moreno Glacier.

01:01:55.240 | And it's a wonderful national park.

01:01:58.760 | I love it too.

01:01:59.640 | I gotta go back actually.

01:02:01.800 | Then on the Southeast, you got whale watching that is so top-notch.

01:02:06.920 | That is amazing in Puerto Madryn.

01:02:09.480 | Also penguins.

01:02:12.200 | And you can see the orcas actually getting out of the water to try to get a sea lion.

01:02:19.720 | It's the only place it happens in the world.

01:02:21.960 | I haven't witnessed it yet.

01:02:23.640 | The times I went, it didn't happen.

01:02:25.480 | You gotta be lucky.

01:02:26.600 | But you see the orcas many times.

01:02:29.000 | Wine country.

01:02:29.880 | Buenos Aires is amazing.

01:02:31.320 | Swamps.

01:02:32.600 | I could be talking about Argentina all day.

01:02:36.520 | This is a wonderful country that everybody should spend some time going to.

01:02:40.600 | We need Manu's Argentina travel show.

01:02:42.840 | It could be your next YouTube adventure.

01:02:44.440 | That could be.

01:02:45.720 | That could be.

01:02:46.200 | Good idea, Chris.

01:02:47.560 | Okay, I have one last travel question, which is I always have seen that teams are now all

01:02:52.440 | chartering flights.

01:02:53.400 | And sometimes you get a flight where every seat is a business class seat.

01:02:57.640 | Have you been on a flight where it wasn't all business?

01:03:00.840 | And if so, how do you decide who on the team gets to sit up front and who sits in the back?

01:03:04.920 | Well, we are so spoiled.

01:03:07.800 | We got charters.

01:03:09.000 | So they actually have room for, I think, 14 players.

01:03:14.200 | And now there are more than 14 players in teams.

01:03:17.560 | So they send a couple to the back.

01:03:21.160 | But they are planes that are especially conditioned for taller players.

01:03:27.880 | So they have a few that face each other for guys that want to play cards, write, type,

01:03:34.120 | or whatever they have facing each other.

01:03:36.760 | Then they have other ones that sleep the whole time.

01:03:39.880 | So yeah, those are not flights that you can choose, that you can accrue miles.

01:03:45.320 | You just jump in and you go wherever they tell you to go.

01:03:49.160 | The coaches have their own stuff, too, where they watch the videos.

01:03:52.040 | They debate the next steps and plan ahead and analyze games after they happen.

01:03:59.080 | And in the way back, they have all the other stuff.

01:04:02.840 | So again, very, very spoiled for travel that the NBA players are.

01:04:08.120 | Yeah.

01:04:08.620 | Any travel or life hacks to leave us with?

01:04:12.280 | Things you do unique in your routine that someone here might want to give a try in their life?

01:04:18.680 | Well, for money, I just listened to the episode with your boss.

01:04:24.760 | It's basically what I've been reading about the last few years.

01:04:27.480 | And it's so well said that I'm not going to repeat it.

01:04:31.080 | Go back and listen to him.

01:04:32.280 | That's an episode with Andy Radcliffe about investing.

01:04:36.440 | When I got here, I never had any money, basically.

01:04:42.120 | I never invested.

01:04:43.480 | So I had no idea.

01:04:44.600 | And I was being overcharged.

01:04:47.400 | I was being sold funds owned by the same bank of the guy that proposed them.

01:04:53.560 | And I was paying super high fees for many years.

01:04:57.880 | And then I started to read about how to optimize all that and choose or invest

01:05:05.240 | in index funds with low costs that will mimic S&P 500 and loss harvesting.

01:05:10.920 | So that was something I learned.

01:05:13.480 | And also the value of fiduciary duties when you have a financial advisor.

01:05:20.520 | I had no idea it existed.

01:05:22.120 | Nobody told me.

01:05:22.920 | It was not mentioned.

01:05:24.920 | And for many of the guys that came from Europe, it's automatic.

01:05:29.240 | I think in Europe, either most or all have something like that.

01:05:34.120 | Somebody will correct them, correct me if I'm wrong.

01:05:36.280 | But when you come to the States, it's different.

01:05:39.160 | And sometimes the broker will sell you the funds that benefit him, not you as an investor.

01:05:45.640 | And that's something I had no idea.

01:05:47.320 | So for many years, I kind of suffered between...

01:05:52.440 | Not really suffered, but I saw that happening until I figured it out.

01:05:57.480 | Reading a couple of the books and listening to guys like Andy.

01:06:01.720 | The value of sleep is also something that I've been trying to figure out for years.

01:06:06.600 | The NBA doesn't propitiate good sleep patterns because of the time that the games are played,

01:06:12.760 | the traveling and all that.

01:06:14.920 | And I tried a bunch of gadgets.

01:06:17.800 | First, it was one that attached to the pillow.

01:06:21.720 | Then it was a Fitbit.

01:06:24.280 | Then finally, I found a sweet spot with the Oura ring that I think gets the best.

01:06:30.520 | There you go.

01:06:31.020 | That's a bad finger to show.

01:06:32.840 | I know.

01:06:33.340 | I realized that as I held it up.

01:06:36.860 | But it gave me very good feedback.

01:06:39.980 | And I think every NBA player, athlete, or person, actually, should wear.

01:06:46.540 | And full disclosure, after wearing it for a year, I decided to invest because I think it's a

01:06:51.820 | fantastic product.

01:06:53.900 | And I don't know.

01:06:55.740 | I think that's...

01:06:56.380 | I mean, that's a lot.

01:06:57.500 | That's about it.

01:06:58.620 | Yeah, I think the combination of...

01:07:00.140 | For a health hack, the combination of workout, sleep, and nutrition is unbeatable.

01:07:07.100 | You'll be happy.

01:07:07.740 | You'll be active.

01:07:08.780 | You'll feel great about yourself.

01:07:10.460 | You'll lose weight.

01:07:11.260 | There is so much data out there that is amazing.

01:07:16.540 | Once you get in there and you start digging, you'll improve yourself a lot.

01:07:21.900 | Yeah, you mentioned books.

01:07:23.100 | I know you love podcasts.

01:07:24.140 | I know you love books.

01:07:25.100 | Anything you're reading or listening to lately that you've enjoyed?

01:07:29.020 | Ryan Holiday is my advisor in everything.

01:07:32.220 | It's books.

01:07:32.780 | And he has recommended me amazing stuff.

01:07:36.300 | Great stories, very nurturing and learning a lot from his books or the ones that he's

01:07:44.620 | recommended me.

01:07:45.420 | Here I got 304 that I read twice, that I also gave away.

01:07:52.060 | Thinking Fast and Slow.

01:07:54.220 | I don't know, from Danny Kahneman.

01:07:56.140 | Awesome book.

01:07:57.740 | Sapiens, also incredible.

01:08:00.940 | Waking Up from Sam Harris.

01:08:03.980 | And I don't have it there, but the one from Jared Diamond.

01:08:08.220 | Guns, Germs, and Steel, I think it is.

01:08:09.980 | Fascinating book, also about a similar topic to Sapiens.

01:08:17.100 | Yeah, awesome.

01:08:19.180 | I have not read that one, so I'll add it to the list.

01:08:21.740 | Very, very good.

01:08:22.540 | Highly recommended.

01:08:23.580 | And money-wise, I liked Unshakeable from Tony Robbins.

01:08:27.020 | And now I thought it was not only because of what he said.

01:08:31.340 | It's the people he interviewed and the people that talk in that book is the one where I

01:08:37.340 | understood about the fiduciary duties and how to invest more consciously.

01:08:43.100 | Yeah, it's kind of the Wild West still in America when it comes to what a person is

01:08:47.500 | allowed to sell you.

01:08:48.860 | I think it's crazy.

01:08:50.300 | They can sell life insurance and pretend it's something else.

01:08:53.260 | And yeah, it's wild.

01:08:54.620 | So if you talk to anyone, ask if they're a fiduciary.

01:08:57.660 | I was a victim for a few years.

01:09:01.740 | So yeah, anytime I have the opportunity, I do tell the guys.

01:09:06.220 | And I'm very happy that tools like Wealthfront are coming out, because on low fees, and

01:09:12.140 | adapts to what you want to do, and they harvest losses.

01:09:17.660 | And I think it's a great product.

01:09:20.140 | Yeah, thank you.

01:09:21.100 | All right, any last things to share or any place people should be finding you online?

01:09:25.580 | No, I'm very easy to find with this type of last name.

01:09:27.900 | I'm very easy to find.

01:09:30.060 | So I post here and there on Twitter and Instagram, not that much.

01:09:35.500 | And they can find me at the sports games too.

01:09:37.820 | Oh, yeah, I'll have to make it out there.

01:09:40.620 | I was just in Austin, but San Antonio, I'll have to find you at a game.

01:09:44.300 | Come join us, Chris.

01:09:46.380 | You'll be welcomed.

01:09:47.260 | We got a lot to talk about.

01:09:48.620 | I need to learn more about how to use these points that I have.

01:09:51.900 | Yeah, we'll have to do a session.

01:09:53.100 | We'll just figure out.

01:09:53.900 | You say, "Here's where I'm going."

01:09:55.180 | And we'll figure out how to make it work.

01:09:56.620 | There you go.

01:09:58.220 | Awesome.

01:09:58.540 | Well, thank you so much for being here.

01:09:59.980 | Thank you for having me, Chris.

01:10:01.980 | Thank you so much for listening.

01:10:04.620 | That was such a fun conversation.

01:10:06.540 | Though, I hope I get a chance one day to smooth things over with Manu's wife.

01:10:10.140 | If you are new to the show and enjoyed this episode, please go ahead and subscribe in

01:10:14.940 | your podcast app and also check out some of the amazing episodes we've done the past few months.

01:10:19.020 | If you want to go above and beyond that, you can share your favorite episode with someone

01:10:23.180 | you think might enjoy it or leave us a 5-star rating and review.

01:10:26.620 | All of these things help so much, and I'm really appreciative of your support.

01:10:30.460 | Hopefully, you all saw that I finally got the All The Hacks newsletter restarted last week,

01:10:35.100 | and I hope you enjoyed it.

01:10:36.540 | If you missed it, you can sign up and read last week's issue at allthehacks.com/email.

01:10:42.220 | If you have any thoughts, feedback, questions for me, guest suggestions,

01:10:45.820 | or you just want to say hi, you can find me at chris@allthehacks.com.

01:10:50.300 | I read every message you send.

01:10:51.820 | Finally, thank you so much to BlockFi for sponsoring this episode.

01:10:56.140 | That's it for this time.

01:10:57.260 | I'll see you all next week.

01:11:03.900 | [Music]

01:11:15.420 | I want to tell you about another podcast I love that goes deep on all things money.

01:11:19.900 | That means everything from money hacks to wealth building to early retirement.

01:11:23.740 | It's called the Personal Finance Podcast, and it's much more about building generational

01:11:28.300 | wealth and spending your money on the things you value than it is about clipping coupons

01:11:32.620 | to save a dollar.

01:11:33.900 | It's hosted by my good friend, Andrew, who truly believes that everyone in this world

01:11:38.060 | can build wealth, and his passion and excitement are what make this show so entertaining.

01:11:43.180 | I know because I was a guest on the show in December 2022, but recently I listened to

01:11:48.460 | an episode where Andrew shared 16 money stats that will blow your mind, and it was so crazy

01:11:53.820 | to learn things like 35% of millennials are not participating in their employer's retirement

01:11:58.780 | plan.

01:11:59.340 | And that's just one of the many fascinating stats he shared.

01:12:03.020 | The Personal Finance Podcast has something for everyone.

01:12:05.740 | It's filled with so many tips and tactics and hacks to help you get better with your

01:12:09.580 | money and grow your wealth.

01:12:11.260 | So I highly recommend you check it out.

01:12:13.340 | Just search for the Personal Finance Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you

01:12:17.980 | listen to podcasts and enjoy.