Does God Love Us Simply for His Glory?
00:00:00.000 | [Music]
00:00:04.000 | Welcome back to the podcast on this Thursday. We're going deep today.
00:00:08.000 | I mentioned Monday that I have a batch of related questions to offer you,
00:00:12.000 | Pastor John, all big, all touch on several points of theology,
00:00:16.000 | all of them similar and all accumulated over the years from reading audience emails.
00:00:20.000 | I think they're the kinds of questions that all of us will face at some point
00:00:24.000 | as we read our Bibles and as we develop an appropriate
00:00:28.000 | God-centered vision of the universe.
00:00:32.000 | So as a first foray on this podcast
00:00:36.000 | into this matrix of questions, I'll put them all on the table for you,
00:00:40.000 | Pastor John, in brief. Our God-centeredness here at Desiring God raises
00:00:44.000 | questions about the integrity of creation,
00:00:48.000 | us in particular, us humans. So here are those questions.
00:00:52.000 | Are we as creatures simply a
00:00:56.000 | means to God's own self-glorification?
00:01:00.000 | Do we exist for a purpose beyond God's own
00:01:04.000 | self-glory? And does God love us beyond His love
00:01:08.000 | for Himself or is the first fully subsumed by the second?
00:01:12.000 | Are we as image-bearers simply mirror
00:01:16.000 | holders for Him to see Himself in us? Do
00:01:20.000 | we count? Does God love or delight in His creatures
00:01:24.000 | for what they are in themselves?
00:01:28.000 | Speaking of unbelievers, does God delight in materially
00:01:32.000 | blessing creatures that do not or will not believe in Him?
00:01:36.000 | But speaking of believers specifically, does God love to
00:01:40.000 | love us simply because it blesses us? Is such
00:01:44.000 | a category even operable? How would you tackle a matrix
00:01:48.000 | of questions like these? What might be helpful is
00:01:52.000 | to clarify what it is that gives rise
00:01:56.000 | to these kinds of questions and then maybe give
00:02:00.000 | very brief, maybe one-sentence answers
00:02:04.000 | to each of those, I think there are nine of those questions
00:02:08.000 | and then step back and look at the Bible and see
00:02:12.000 | what it is about God and what it is about His ways that make those very
00:02:16.000 | brief answers justifiable, compelling, maybe
00:02:20.000 | explain why they make sense. So, what gives rise to these
00:02:24.000 | questions is that I and many others
00:02:28.000 | in the history of the Church have emphasized
00:02:32.000 | the biblical teaching that God created
00:02:36.000 | and redeemed His people for His
00:02:40.000 | own glory. Meaning,
00:02:44.000 | to cause His glory, that is His greatness, His
00:02:48.000 | beauty, His worth to be known
00:02:52.000 | and treasured and shown in the universe.
00:02:56.000 | That's what I think glorify, for His own glory
00:03:00.000 | means. Isaiah 43, 7, "My sons and my daughters
00:03:04.000 | whom I created for my glory." Ephesians
00:03:08.000 | 1, 4 to 7, "We're chosen, predestined,
00:03:12.000 | adopted, redeemed through the blood of Christ for the praise
00:03:16.000 | of the glory of God's grace."
00:03:20.000 | And that teaching, namely that all
00:03:24.000 | things are from Him and through Him and to Him, to His
00:03:28.000 | glory, all things, causes all
00:03:32.000 | these questions to be raised. So, let me respond
00:03:36.000 | to each of these nine questions with a very short answer
00:03:40.000 | and then look at the main thing in Scripture.
00:03:44.000 | Number one, are we simply a means
00:03:48.000 | to God's self-glorification? No.
00:03:52.000 | Not simply because stars and stones and mountains
00:03:56.000 | are means to God's self-glorification
00:04:00.000 | but not the way humans are. It's not that simple. Number two,
00:04:04.000 | do we exist for a purpose beyond
00:04:08.000 | God's own self-glory? No.
00:04:12.000 | There is no such thing as beyond God's glory.
00:04:16.000 | Three, does God love us beyond
00:04:20.000 | His love for Himself or is the
00:04:24.000 | first fully subsumed in the second?
00:04:28.000 | God has no greater
00:04:32.000 | love than the love He has for His Son
00:04:36.000 | who is the radiance of His glory
00:04:40.000 | and the exact imprint of His nature and is therefore
00:04:44.000 | a love for His own infinitely glorious
00:04:48.000 | self. To love us with that
00:04:52.000 | same love cannot be improved upon.
00:04:56.000 | Number four, are we as image
00:05:00.000 | bearers simply mirror holders
00:05:04.000 | for Him to see Himself? No.
00:05:08.000 | He didn't need us in order to simply see Himself.
00:05:12.000 | He has done that with infinite joy in the fellowship of the Trinity
00:05:16.000 | from all eternity. Number five, do we
00:05:20.000 | count? Yes. He did not need to
00:05:24.000 | create and He did not create for nothing. Six,
00:05:28.000 | does God love or delight in His
00:05:32.000 | creatures for what they are in themselves?
00:05:36.000 | What humans are
00:05:40.000 | in themselves, apart from
00:05:44.000 | our reliance on God and our rejoicing in God, is
00:05:48.000 | what hell is for. It is not wise
00:05:52.000 | to want to be loved the way a human in hell
00:05:56.000 | might be loved. Number seven,
00:06:00.000 | does God delight in materially blessing creatures
00:06:04.000 | that will never believe in Him? Yes.
00:06:08.000 | God delights in the overflow of mercy even where it is spurned.
00:06:12.000 | Eight, speaking of believers,
00:06:16.000 | does God love to love us simply because
00:06:20.000 | it blesses us? God's
00:06:24.000 | blessing us is never simply
00:06:28.000 | for us without also being for Him
00:06:32.000 | because there is no eternal blessing where our
00:06:36.000 | good does not include God.
00:06:40.000 | Nine, is that category even operable?
00:06:44.000 | Namely, the category of God's loving us
00:06:48.000 | simply because it blesses us. No.
00:06:52.000 | It is atheistic to think it would be
00:06:56.000 | good for God to bless us in a way that did not glorify
00:07:00.000 | His grace by our enjoyment of it.
00:07:04.000 | Now, let me see if I can put some
00:07:08.000 | biblical truth underneath those short answers.
00:07:12.000 | First, we need to take really seriously
00:07:16.000 | the fact that there is a powerful
00:07:20.000 | atheistic tendency in every human heart.
00:07:24.000 | That's what it means to be fallen and
00:07:28.000 | depraved and sinful by nature. Romans 1.18
00:07:32.000 | "Humans by their unrighteousness suppress
00:07:36.000 | the truth," Paul said. What truth do we suppress?
00:07:40.000 | Verse 28, "They did not approve
00:07:44.000 | of having God in their knowledge."
00:07:48.000 | Or verse 22, "They exchanged
00:07:52.000 | the glory of the immortal God for images."
00:07:56.000 | Or Romans 8.7, "The mind of the flesh is
00:08:00.000 | hostile to God." In other words,
00:08:04.000 | the Bible teaches that human beings by nature
00:08:08.000 | are going to be powerfully resistant
00:08:12.000 | to any doctrine that emphasizes
00:08:16.000 | the absolute supremacy of God in all things and that makes
00:08:20.000 | God the ultimate good of all that is good.
00:08:24.000 | Then the second thing to notice from the Bible
00:08:28.000 | is that over and over and over
00:08:32.000 | again, God himself and all that
00:08:36.000 | he is for us in Jesus is shown to be
00:08:40.000 | the ultimate good, the ultimate fulfillment,
00:08:44.000 | happiness, satisfaction, joy
00:08:48.000 | of the redeemed human heart. If you
00:08:52.000 | trace God's love from its origin in the
00:08:56.000 | eternal grace of God through his redeeming work
00:09:00.000 | in Christ to the ultimate and greatest,
00:09:04.000 | most beautiful, most satisfying end,
00:09:08.000 | that end is always God. God
00:09:12.000 | himself enjoyed supremely in the heart
00:09:16.000 | of the redeemed. So in John 17.24
00:09:20.000 | Jesus prays for us that we would see his glory.
00:09:24.000 | That is ultimate final wish of love
00:09:28.000 | for us, that we would see his glory and that we would
00:09:32.000 | be able to love him with the very love that the Father has for him.
00:09:36.000 | 1 Peter 3.18, Peter says that Christ suffered
00:09:40.000 | for us that he might
00:09:44.000 | bring us to God.
00:09:48.000 | Where according to Psalm 16.11 we find fullness of joy
00:09:52.000 | and pleasures forevermore. That's what God
00:09:56.000 | will be for the redeemed. Now what this boils down
00:10:00.000 | to is this. It never makes sense to speak
00:10:04.000 | of God delighting in doing us
00:10:08.000 | good and God delighting in his own glory as
00:10:12.000 | though our ultimate good could be distinct from
00:10:16.000 | the glory of God. Never makes sense to talk like that. It can't be
00:10:20.000 | because our ultimate good always
00:10:24.000 | consists in knowing and treasuring and showing
00:10:28.000 | God's glory. The resistance to this
00:10:32.000 | wonderful truth that God's glory shines
00:10:36.000 | in me by my happily exalting
00:10:40.000 | in him. The resistance to this truth
00:10:44.000 | as if there could be some greater happiness.
00:10:48.000 | If I could just be me, be me, distinct from reliance on
00:10:52.000 | God, distinct from rejoicing in God, distinct from glorifying God. If I could just
00:10:56.000 | be me. That resistance is evil.
00:11:00.000 | It is a remnant of the atheistic
00:11:04.000 | nature we were born with and we need
00:11:08.000 | to ask God to take it away.
00:11:12.000 | A remnant of the atheistic nature. That is pointed.
00:11:16.000 | Thank you, Pastor John, for getting us into this massive and massively
00:11:20.000 | important discussion. It touches on so many things and carries
00:11:24.000 | eternal implications for every one of us
00:11:28.000 | to the point that it feels like maybe this episode is the first episode that will generate
00:11:32.000 | some thoughtful follow-up questions in the future. And if you have a follow-up
00:11:36.000 | question, mention this episode, APJ 1980,
00:11:40.000 | send me an email and send me your follow-up question. Our address is
00:11:44.000 | askpastorjohn@desiringgod.org. That's an email address.
00:11:48.000 | askpastorjohn@desiringgod.org. I'm very interested to see
00:11:52.000 | what follow-ups this episode generates.
00:11:56.000 | Well, why don't we have more artifacts, more
00:12:00.000 | archaeology, or even a more diversified record
00:12:04.000 | of historical documents to corroborate the death
00:12:08.000 | and resurrection of Jesus Christ? Shouldn't we have more?
00:12:12.000 | It's a question we get from time to time and it's up next,
00:12:16.000 | next week. I'm your host, Tony Reinke. See you Monday.
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00:12:28.000 | you