Welcome back to the podcast on this Thursday. We're going deep today. I mentioned Monday that I have a batch of related questions to offer you, Pastor John, all big, all touch on several points of theology, all of them similar and all accumulated over the years from reading audience emails.

I think they're the kinds of questions that all of us will face at some point as we read our Bibles and as we develop an appropriate God-centered vision of the universe. So as a first foray on this podcast into this matrix of questions, I'll put them all on the table for you, Pastor John, in brief.

Our God-centeredness here at Desiring God raises questions about the integrity of creation, us in particular, us humans. So here are those questions. Are we as creatures simply a means to God's own self-glorification? Do we exist for a purpose beyond God's own self-glory? And does God love us beyond His love for Himself or is the first fully subsumed by the second?

Are we as image-bearers simply mirror holders for Him to see Himself in us? Do we count? Does God love or delight in His creatures for what they are in themselves? Speaking of unbelievers, does God delight in materially blessing creatures that do not or will not believe in Him? But speaking of believers specifically, does God love to love us simply because it blesses us?

Is such a category even operable? How would you tackle a matrix of questions like these? What might be helpful is to clarify what it is that gives rise to these kinds of questions and then maybe give very brief, maybe one-sentence answers to each of those, I think there are nine of those questions and then step back and look at the Bible and see what it is about God and what it is about His ways that make those very brief answers justifiable, compelling, maybe explain why they make sense.

So, what gives rise to these questions is that I and many others in the history of the Church have emphasized the biblical teaching that God created and redeemed His people for His own glory. Meaning, to cause His glory, that is His greatness, His beauty, His worth to be known and treasured and shown in the universe.

That's what I think glorify, for His own glory means. Isaiah 43, 7, "My sons and my daughters whom I created for my glory." Ephesians 1, 4 to 7, "We're chosen, predestined, adopted, redeemed through the blood of Christ for the praise of the glory of God's grace." And that teaching, namely that all things are from Him and through Him and to Him, to His glory, all things, causes all these questions to be raised.

So, let me respond to each of these nine questions with a very short answer and then look at the main thing in Scripture. Number one, are we simply a means to God's self-glorification? No. Not simply because stars and stones and mountains are means to God's self-glorification but not the way humans are.

It's not that simple. Number two, do we exist for a purpose beyond God's own self-glory? No. There is no such thing as beyond God's glory. Three, does God love us beyond His love for Himself or is the first fully subsumed in the second? God has no greater love than the love He has for His Son who is the radiance of His glory and the exact imprint of His nature and is therefore a love for His own infinitely glorious self.

To love us with that same love cannot be improved upon. Number four, are we as image bearers simply mirror holders for Him to see Himself? No. He didn't need us in order to simply see Himself. He has done that with infinite joy in the fellowship of the Trinity from all eternity.

Number five, do we count? Yes. He did not need to create and He did not create for nothing. Six, does God love or delight in His creatures for what they are in themselves? What humans are in themselves, apart from our reliance on God and our rejoicing in God, is what hell is for.

It is not wise to want to be loved the way a human in hell might be loved. Number seven, does God delight in materially blessing creatures that will never believe in Him? Yes. God delights in the overflow of mercy even where it is spurned. Eight, speaking of believers, does God love to love us simply because it blesses us?

God's blessing us is never simply for us without also being for Him because there is no eternal blessing where our good does not include God. Nine, is that category even operable? Namely, the category of God's loving us simply because it blesses us. No. It is atheistic to think it would be good for God to bless us in a way that did not glorify His grace by our enjoyment of it.

Now, let me see if I can put some biblical truth underneath those short answers. First, we need to take really seriously the fact that there is a powerful atheistic tendency in every human heart. That's what it means to be fallen and depraved and sinful by nature. Romans 1.18 "Humans by their unrighteousness suppress the truth," Paul said.

What truth do we suppress? Verse 28, "They did not approve of having God in their knowledge." Or verse 22, "They exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images." Or Romans 8.7, "The mind of the flesh is hostile to God." In other words, the Bible teaches that human beings by nature are going to be powerfully resistant to any doctrine that emphasizes the absolute supremacy of God in all things and that makes God the ultimate good of all that is good.

Then the second thing to notice from the Bible is that over and over and over again, God himself and all that he is for us in Jesus is shown to be the ultimate good, the ultimate fulfillment, happiness, satisfaction, joy of the redeemed human heart. If you trace God's love from its origin in the eternal grace of God through his redeeming work in Christ to the ultimate and greatest, most beautiful, most satisfying end, that end is always God.

God himself enjoyed supremely in the heart of the redeemed. So in John 17.24 Jesus prays for us that we would see his glory. That is ultimate final wish of love for us, that we would see his glory and that we would be able to love him with the very love that the Father has for him.

1 Peter 3.18, Peter says that Christ suffered for us that he might bring us to God. Where according to Psalm 16.11 we find fullness of joy and pleasures forevermore. That's what God will be for the redeemed. Now what this boils down to is this. It never makes sense to speak of God delighting in doing us good and God delighting in his own glory as though our ultimate good could be distinct from the glory of God.

Never makes sense to talk like that. It can't be because our ultimate good always consists in knowing and treasuring and showing God's glory. The resistance to this wonderful truth that God's glory shines in me by my happily exalting in him. The resistance to this truth as if there could be some greater happiness.

If I could just be me, be me, distinct from reliance on God, distinct from rejoicing in God, distinct from glorifying God. If I could just be me. That resistance is evil. It is a remnant of the atheistic nature we were born with and we need to ask God to take it away.

A remnant of the atheistic nature. That is pointed. Thank you, Pastor John, for getting us into this massive and massively important discussion. It touches on so many things and carries eternal implications for every one of us to the point that it feels like maybe this episode is the first episode that will generate some thoughtful follow-up questions in the future.

And if you have a follow-up question, mention this episode, APJ 1980, send me an email and send me your follow-up question. Our address is askpastorjohn@desiringgod.org. That's an email address. askpastorjohn@desiringgod.org. I'm very interested to see what follow-ups this episode generates. Well, why don't we have more artifacts, more archaeology, or even a more diversified record of historical documents to corroborate the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

Shouldn't we have more? It's a question we get from time to time and it's up next, next week. I'm your host, Tony Reinke. See you Monday. you