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Determination, Achieving the Impossible and Pursuing Your Passion with Tony Hawk


Chapters

0:0 Introduction to Tony Hawk
1:56 Tony’s Drive, Determination, Perseverance, and Motivation
2:34 Common Misunderstandings about Skateboard Culture
12:50 Surfing
19:3 Modeling Determination as a Parent
22:42 Tony’s Favorite Travel Destinations and Travel Hacks
25:4 Racking Up Miles and Playing the Points Game
33:21 Instances of Mistaken Identity, Health, Fitness, Routines, and Supplements
43:46 Time Management: Saying No and Toddler Hack
47:51 Relationship with Money and the Value of Education
57:21 Advice about Pursuing Your Passion and Parting Advice
64:16 Tony’s Current Focus and Where to Find Tony Hawk

Whisper Transcript | Transcript Only Page

00:00:00.000 | I'd say I started making pretty good money around 16, 17. And it was like, "Oh, this is awesome.
00:00:08.160 | I'm going to take all my friends to Hawaii. I'm going to Sharper Image and buying all the gear."
00:00:12.560 | And at some point, my dad gave me the best advice. He said, "I really think you should
00:00:19.840 | put some of that money away." I was like, "Why?" I said, "It's just going to keep raining down on me."
00:00:25.840 | And he said, "Well, you just don't know if this is going to last." Because he really wanted me to go
00:00:31.280 | to college. He was like, "If you're going to do this, you should really save from what you're
00:00:37.040 | making here." And so when I was 17, he co-signed a mortgage for a home. I bought a home when I was
00:00:48.320 | 17. It was my money, but he co-signed it just because I was not 18. And because you might not
00:00:54.000 | have had the income to qualify for a mortgage. No, I did. I had the income to qualify, but I
00:00:58.720 | literally was not old enough to sign the paperwork by myself. Hello, and welcome to another episode
00:01:04.240 | of All The Hacks, a show about upgrading your life, money, and travel. I'm your host, Chris
00:01:08.880 | Hutchins. And as you can probably see, I have a few skateboards hanging on the wall behind me.
00:01:13.120 | It's not just because they look cool. I have loved skateboarding since it was a daily habit of mine
00:01:17.680 | as a kid, and I still skate a bit today. Well, you probably can't see, but one of those skateboards,
00:01:22.960 | this one, is actually signed by Tony Hawk, who I looked up to for so many years when I was skating,
00:01:28.800 | which is why it is surreal that I'm sitting down with Tony today for this episode. He's one of the
00:01:33.840 | most decorated athletes in the world. He turned pro at 14, and by 16, he was considered the best
00:01:39.600 | competitive skateboarder on earth. He was a world champion for 12 years in a row. He launched a
00:01:44.720 | video game franchise with 30 million games sold. He also runs a skate brand, a nonprofit clothing
00:01:50.800 | brand, and has made hundreds of appearances on movies, magazines, and TV shows. We're going to
00:01:56.800 | talk about his career, how he pushed himself to achieve things that so many people thought were
00:02:01.680 | impossible. We're talking about what lessons we can take away from his career in skateboarding,
00:02:06.560 | what he's learned being a parent to four kids, and some of his favorite travel hacks. We also
00:02:12.320 | shot this in person at his studio, which has an awesome three-camera setup, so I hope you enjoy.
00:02:17.600 | And since I'm still getting this YouTube channel going, please do me a favor and click the thumbs
00:02:22.080 | up and subscribe to the channel. All right, let's do this. Tony, welcome to the show.
00:02:32.320 | Thank you. Yeah, so before we jump in,
00:02:34.800 | what is one thing you think most people just don't get about skateboarding or skateboard culture?
00:02:38.800 | Um, the amount of discipline it takes. I think that there's still a stigma that skaters,
00:02:46.640 | especially people who make their living from skateboarding or from riding their skateboards,
00:02:50.880 | are slackers, are stoners. They just get up late, they do what they want, they go trespassing,
00:02:57.120 | they go skate. And to get to a certain level of skating, to get to some of the more difficult
00:03:04.720 | maneuvers, it takes years of discipline and perseverance, pain. And I think that that's lost
00:03:14.080 | in the noise of these guys are, they're rebels, they got crazy hairdos, you know, they go against
00:03:21.760 | the grain. It's like those things are also true in a lot of ways, but they do that out of, it's
00:03:28.720 | more out of function of where they came from, because especially in the early 90s, mid 90s,
00:03:36.320 | there were no places to skate. And you had to break into places, you know, you had to hop fences
00:03:42.880 | and go to schoolyards or go to, go to plazas to, to find any type of terrain.
00:03:48.320 | And then skaters got labeled as, as outcasts and outlaws through that.
00:03:53.840 | Yeah. I remember flipping over like Shays lounges at the pool and trying to grind the,
00:04:00.000 | the like rails on there. Like there was, there was nothing to do back then. Um,
00:04:04.160 | I know you have a lot of discipline, right? You talk about how important it was
00:04:07.360 | going back to the early days. Was there anything about your upbringing that kind of drove that
00:04:12.800 | competition and determination? I was just always very determined. That's my, that was my,
00:04:18.960 | my mom's best explanation for it because people would say I was a terror and I was a nightmare
00:04:24.480 | and I was relentless. And she's like, he's just very determined. And that was her nice way of,
00:04:28.880 | of summarizing my behavior. But I think that I wanted to figure things out and,
00:04:35.360 | and I was going to do it at all costs. Like I wanted to, I mean, I play baseball and basketball,
00:04:41.600 | but I didn't thrive and only because of my size, you know, I was committed to it and I was,
00:04:47.680 | I was doing the work and I was trying to get in the mix, but I just, I didn't have the,
00:04:52.080 | the strength or the, or the height to really make a difference.
00:04:55.120 | Um, cause I was really small for my age. And then when I found skating,
00:04:59.280 | I still had the same disadvantage, but there was something about it that was much more creative
00:05:04.800 | that I enjoyed. It wasn't, it wasn't a team sport. I didn't have to, I didn't have to listen to a
00:05:11.520 | coach or, or rely on the team. And, and there was something about that that spoke to me, but also
00:05:16.720 | just the, the, the whole culture and how people's attitudes was, was very do it yourself and they
00:05:25.120 | were proactive and I loved it. I know you said it's not a team sport, but there were a lot of
00:05:29.760 | other people involved. There were a lot of other skaters. It wasn't, it wasn't that,
00:05:33.600 | that it was so individualistic that it was like, I'm just on my own mission. I love the community
00:05:38.880 | of it. I love that you could go to the skate park and be trying to learn something. And suddenly
00:05:44.320 | people rally around you because they just want to see you succeed. And then you have the support.
00:05:49.280 | And like, in that sense, you have a team, but you're not, you're, you're not relying on each
00:05:56.880 | other for the, for the, the, I don't know, coordination or anything like that. You know,
00:06:03.200 | it was very much like, like, you could do it. You got it. All right. And then, and then someone else
00:06:07.600 | is trying something else and then you, you get behind that. And, and I, and I think that spoke
00:06:11.280 | to me a lot too, because I was, you know, I was, I was really small for my age. I didn't feel like
00:06:19.600 | I fit in anywhere. I was, I was bullied a lot, mostly because of my size, but also just because
00:06:24.960 | I was, you know, not, I was not the cool kid. And then when I found skateboarding, there were
00:06:30.240 | a bunch of people like me all trying to find their way and, and they, they all connected through
00:06:35.200 | skateboarding. Yeah. I, I look back to my childhood and I remember like those days I was not the cool
00:06:40.160 | kid. I was like the computer nerd and skateboard nerd. And you know, you found our tribe, if you
00:06:46.160 | will. Yeah. I didn't have, I think the determination you did. I remember all I wanted was to skate at
00:06:52.240 | like an amazing level and it just never clicked for me. I found determination other places later
00:06:57.520 | in life, but it was so hard. You, I've seen, you know, documented, fortunately, a lot of your
00:07:04.400 | experiences in life are documented against all odds, against all pain. You know, I, I remember
00:07:10.800 | watching the X games in, in 99, where you're trying to do your 900 is, you know, 12 times in a row,
00:07:16.800 | falling, falling, even this year, trying to kick flip for five, 10 minutes after surgery. Like,
00:07:23.200 | what do you think allows you to go and just keep going? Because I remember sitting in the garage,
00:07:29.040 | trying to kick flip for hours. And then I just, I just gave up at some point and I just couldn't
00:07:34.000 | keep going. I think firstly, that I have convinced myself that whatever it is I'm trying is possible.
00:07:42.160 | And so I just have to figure out the right approach to make it so. And that,
00:07:48.160 | that comes in a lot of forms. But, but I do feel like, especially if I go to try a new trick,
00:07:54.400 | it's like, I have every element of this trick. I know how to spin. I know how to flip my board. I,
00:08:00.800 | I have landed in similar fashions. So it's like, how do I combine all those elements to make this
00:08:05.840 | one thing work? And I think I, I rely on that so much that I'll, I'm willing to push through
00:08:12.240 | pain and exhaustion to get there. It doesn't always work. I mean, like when you talk about,
00:08:18.000 | you know, you saw the 900 was 12 tries. Those 12 tries are representative of thousands of tries.
00:08:24.480 | I tried that trick for 10 years. So 12 tries was nothing. You know what I mean?
00:08:32.480 | There was a 12 I got to witness. No, but I'm saying, but, but you, but,
00:08:35.920 | but I understand that if people saw that from the outside, they're like, Oh, he won't give up.
00:08:40.080 | And I was like, yeah, you have no idea how deep that not give up goes, especially for
00:08:44.240 | that particular move. Um, I would try dozens of tries in one session only to walk away with a
00:08:51.680 | broken rib. So heal up and come back and do it again, heal up and come back and try again.
00:08:56.800 | Actually after the broken rib that put me on pause that, that one, I had actually stepped
00:09:01.360 | away from that trick after getting hurt like that. Um, and at some point thought
00:09:05.360 | I've given it everything I have, I've fully committed to it and that's what happens. So
00:09:10.960 | maybe it's not in the cards at the time. Did you think I'm quitting on this endeavor or I did?
00:09:17.440 | Yeah, actually after, after I broke my rib, I was like, I, I had every element, I had every piece
00:09:21.600 | of it. I had the landing, I had everything. And so if it didn't work, it's never going to work.
00:09:28.000 | But in that one instance at the X games, the reason I even tried it was because it was the
00:09:34.560 | best trick event. I had a trick in mind for what I wanted to do that I had made once before.
00:09:39.280 | And so I thought I'm just going to try it. That's my best trick. I'm going to try to get to that
00:09:44.240 | trick. And I got to it very early. So I didn't really have anything else planned. And so the
00:09:50.240 | announcer actually at the time, the announcer that was on site said, Oh, let's see one of those 900
00:09:56.720 | attempts. That's what, that's what started it. Was that part of your being was being encouraged
00:10:03.040 | by others or was it internal motivation? No, I mean, I, I think that I probably would have
00:10:07.840 | tried it anyway. Cause it's like, yeah, that, that would be my next trick that I'd like to
00:10:12.240 | accomplish would be the next best trick for sure. Um, and so I tried it more to appease the crowd,
00:10:21.200 | like, Oh, this is what, this is what it looks like. And then somewhere around the third or
00:10:25.760 | fourth try, my, my speed was consistent. My spin was consistent. I started spotting the landing.
00:10:32.240 | And in previous attempts, I only ever spotted the landing, maybe one out of five tries
00:10:36.880 | because the ramps were all pretty terrible back then. You couldn't, you couldn't rely on the speed
00:10:42.080 | or they weren't, they weren't, um, uh, the walls weren't the same. So you're always kind of
00:10:49.920 | struggling to adjust. And that ramp was built really well. So I didn't have to struggle with
00:10:56.480 | the, with the construction. It was more like I could rely on the speed and the, the trueness of
00:11:02.080 | it. So, so after about my fourth, third or fourth try that I'm, I can see it. I see it every time I
00:11:07.520 | might as well try to make it again. And when I did try to make it the first time, when I tried
00:11:12.800 | to put it on the wall, I fell forward, but I didn't fall forward so hard that I got hurt again.
00:11:19.680 | And that was the key because it was like, Oh, maybe I can adjust, I can adjust the landing
00:11:25.840 | and I can try to get more in my back foot. And then I, I turned, I made, I basically shifted
00:11:34.400 | my weight mid spin so that when my landed, I was more on the back foot and I was too far on the
00:11:39.680 | back foot. And then I shot at backwards. We call that shooting out. Um, so the first one, I was
00:11:47.680 | too top heavy. I fell forward the second one, the ones I tried to make. And then that next one I
00:11:52.480 | shot out. And it was like, that, that was the magic moment because it was like, well, split the
00:11:57.200 | difference and that's it. And then that's when it worked. Wow. So, so it sounds like you, you've
00:12:01.920 | gotten close to giving up, but are there things that someone listening, let's say someone listening
00:12:07.120 | is hearing this story. They're like, this guy's not afraid of anything. Are there other, other
00:12:11.040 | sports, other things in life that you're, that you have fear from? Oh, for sure. I like, I surf
00:12:16.240 | and I don't like big surf. I don't, people say, you know, you ride these giant ramps. Yeah. But
00:12:21.280 | if I fall, the giant ramp doesn't crash on top of me and hold me underwater. You know what I mean?
00:12:27.280 | That's I, I, I just never, my brother was, he is a surfer. Um, and that's how I got into
00:12:33.680 | skateboarding, my older brother. And, um, but when I would go surf with him and he wanted,
00:12:38.640 | like, he's, he has plenty of experience. He'd go out to pretty heavy stuff. And it's just like,
00:12:42.560 | I don't that I like riding a big wave, but I don't, I don't want to suffer the consequences
00:12:48.640 | of falling on one. I mean, having my first experience surfing was a friend of mine took
00:12:54.320 | me and he was like, let's just try these on a short board. I had no idea what I was doing.
00:12:57.920 | Yeah. Not, not a great first experience on a short board. Uh, and then the next one was like
00:13:03.360 | Hawaii long board, super chill. I was like, Oh, I could get back into this. Well, I'll tell you,
00:13:07.520 | I have since I have surfed through my years because my brother wouldn't allow me to exist
00:13:12.960 | without at least a foot, a foot or a toe in the water, so to speak. But I, um, have, I have fallen
00:13:19.040 | in love with the wave machines, the wave pools, because they are consistent. Um, they're not
00:13:27.600 | too scary. Um, and they are like skate parks because when you go surfing out in the wild,
00:13:36.320 | you never really know what you're going to get, right? You get waves and sometimes they're good.
00:13:40.480 | Sometimes they're not good. Um, you've got to figure out kind of how to navigate nature and
00:13:45.200 | where the swell is going to hit. Those things are, the waves are always good. They're, they're always
00:13:50.800 | going to barrel. And so in that sense, you have what, what I consider a skate park to try to learn
00:13:57.200 | tricks and try to learn techniques. So yeah, I get it. It's not like, it's not the purest thing.
00:14:02.640 | It's not, you're not out in nature, but, um, but for me, it's just a controlled environment and it
00:14:09.440 | very much feels like skateboarding. Yeah. I've been waiting for a time where I'm near one of
00:14:14.160 | these wave parks because I don't think there's one near, near San Francisco, at least close enough.
00:14:18.560 | Uh, Lamore Fresno. Okay. Not go out for a few hours and then come back. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Um,
00:14:26.480 | so you've got this crazy determination with skateboarding. Did you ever figure out or,
00:14:31.520 | or do you know the secret to applying that to something else? I think for my personal life,
00:14:36.400 | there are things where I'm like, I'm wildly obsessed with optimizing travel.
00:14:40.800 | And, but that doesn't mean that I can take that same thing and apply it necessarily
00:14:44.720 | to go learn a kickflip though. You've somewhat inspired me to do that as soon as I get home today.
00:14:48.720 | I think I learned the value of, of patience and perseverance and that I've, I've transcended
00:14:55.280 | to being a parent, to being a business owner, to, to travel, to, you know, pretty much everything.
00:15:03.920 | I learned all that through skating. And is there a way that you applied that? I,
00:15:08.880 | you know, it's, it's not always natural for someone who's, I could do this as hard. I could
00:15:12.800 | try everything and then they get to work and they're like, Oh, it's hard. Like, how do you
00:15:16.240 | rewire your brain to say, Oh, well, I know how to do this with skateboarding. Um, I think this
00:15:19.920 | is more of that. Yeah. And also, also trying to, uh, trying to reach back to remembering, well,
00:15:27.120 | how, how was I able to figure this out? And I, I don't know a good example. I think that
00:15:33.280 | with parenting, especially it's so easy to get frustrated and give up. It really is like,
00:15:39.200 | you know, I, I get it. It's hard, man. When, especially when your kids are relentless and
00:15:43.920 | they're difficult and you want to just be like, you know, you, you want to just yell and you can't,
00:15:49.600 | that's not effective. And so you've got to figure out how to sort of change your approach
00:15:55.280 | and to see what is effective. And that is really hard. And so, but I learned that through skating
00:16:02.480 | and I learned, and I've had plenty of kids, so I've had time to figure it out even more so.
00:16:08.320 | Um, but I think that it's, it's just more that I, and I learned the value of persistence
00:16:13.680 | and determination and you do see the results eventually, but they're not, it's, it's not some,
00:16:19.280 | it's not some wow moment always. Yeah. You know what I mean? You've got to sort of see,
00:16:25.120 | you, you, you take your wins, your small wins as long the way.
00:16:30.400 | I'm early on the parenting journey with one at two and six months, but
00:16:34.560 | I've seen some small wins and it's like, Oh yeah. And those, and those, um,
00:16:40.560 | they're exponentially get better. Yeah. And you can see that, Oh, well I planted the seed.
00:16:44.960 | I'll tell you what I did with all my kids early on. And it was hard. Cause I was, you know,
00:16:50.160 | very much in the early days, kind of a single parent. Um, I just travel with them in a way.
00:16:57.120 | It wasn't a question of like, Oh, I gotta go. I'm going to have to find care. It was, we're going.
00:17:02.000 | And in the beginning that was super hard, especially when they're, when they're toddlers
00:17:05.920 | and you know, they, they don't have patients. We didn't have iPhones or anything like that. So it
00:17:10.400 | was more like, all right, we're like, I remember I took my son, my oldest son. I took him to Japan
00:17:15.440 | when he was four, because I had the opportunity to do some skate demos. No one was paying me to
00:17:19.920 | skate demos at the time I was struggling to pay bills. And it was like this, this, uh, brand in
00:17:26.080 | Osaka said, Oh, we want you to come to our skate shop and do two skate exhibitions a day in the
00:17:31.360 | skate shop. So they built these little, these little ramps in their skate shop, like moved all
00:17:36.400 | their inventory. And, um, and I brought him along and yeah, it was challenging, but, but, but it
00:17:44.480 | made him appreciate different cultures and travel and things like that later on. And it wasn't even
00:17:51.040 | a, like nowadays he's 30 now, um, he's adventurous. Um, he understands and, and is, I hate using the
00:18:01.600 | word tolerant, but, but he is embraces other cultures and other ways of life. You know what
00:18:07.440 | I mean? It's, it's, it's not like everything's so, Oh, it's weird. It's crazy. This food or
00:18:11.840 | the way they do things. He's, he's down for it. Yeah. I think in the moment, we just took a trip
00:18:18.720 | with two kids, two, two and two and six months. And it's brutal. But you, you think, why are we
00:18:23.600 | doing this? And you got to constantly remind yourself, well, there's a reason we're doing
00:18:27.440 | this. We're doing this. I think in those, in those years, it's super hard because it's like,
00:18:32.080 | they're not going to remember any of this, but it does set a precedent and it sets a way of, of
00:18:37.440 | functioning with your family that they get used to. And you'll see other kids try to do that.
00:18:44.480 | Like eventually they're going to want to bring friends along. The friends are like, what? I
00:18:47.920 | don't, I can't, where do we go? What do we do? And you'll, your kids will be dialed in. Yeah.
00:18:54.640 | Even adapting ourselves, getting comfortable with, okay, well, traveling in London with two kids is
00:19:00.400 | very different from two single adults. And so like, we're trying to get comfortable with that,
00:19:05.280 | which was hard. And I think it, it worked really well. I know you've said, you know,
00:19:10.480 | skateboarding is a title, but your favorite title is parenting or dad. Um, is there anything else
00:19:16.480 | you were trying to teach your kids that to give them that determination? Do they have it? Did they
00:19:21.600 | see it from you? I think they see it from me by example, but, but I do feel like there is a bit
00:19:27.680 | also nature over nurture where I see them and they're all different. And a couple of them have
00:19:35.760 | that relentless determination and they're going to see it through against all odds, against all
00:19:40.160 | injury. Um, uh, one of them was actually kind of so, so determined and so fearless that I worried
00:19:50.000 | for him when he was young. I used to say I was my son Keegan, but I used to say like, you don't go,
00:19:55.920 | you don't babysit Keegan. You go on death watch. You're just trying to keep him from, from hurting
00:20:00.960 | himself because he doesn't understand the consequences of all the stuff that he's trying to
00:20:04.800 | do. Um, so they're all, they're all very different, but, but I do see that they do have that same
00:20:13.120 | sense of commitment. And was that a conscious thing or do you think it was just by watching
00:20:19.040 | you have it yourself? Well, I, that's what I said. I think, I think the, the, each of them are
00:20:23.440 | different, but they all do see them see their challenges through. Some are just a little more
00:20:30.720 | daring with their challenges. And I can't say they got that from me. I mean, maybe they,
00:20:35.200 | they saw that I would, I would pose a challenge and then I would see it through for sure.
00:20:40.240 | But like I said, they, you know, there was one, like some, my kids were really,
00:20:45.360 | really good skaters, really solid, um, had the foundational skills, but didn't really want to
00:20:51.440 | push their limits too hard or put themselves in danger. And then other ones, one especially was
00:20:58.560 | not great at skating early on, didn't want to put in the hard work to get the foundational skills,
00:21:03.840 | but would try anything and get hurt. Didn't care. And were you there pushing or supporting,
00:21:11.680 | or what was your kind of role to help them kind of grow and evolve?
00:21:15.040 | It's, it's hard with my position because of course I'm, I'm qualified to give them advice,
00:21:22.400 | but because I'm dad, they don't want to hear it. And I actually have seen it happen time and time
00:21:27.440 | again, where I'll, I'll tell them to try something or to do it a different way. They don't take my
00:21:32.720 | advice because they're determined to do it their way. One of their friends is like, Oh, you should
00:21:36.480 | put your foot over here more. And they do it and it works. Like, that's what I told you.
00:21:41.680 | I feel like the same applies with spouses as well.
00:21:45.840 | Maybe a little bit. Um, but, but, uh, but they do it. And honestly, it's, it's fun too,
00:21:52.880 | cause they all skate. And, um, so when we go travel and they're all adults now, my, all of
00:21:58.000 | our boys, uh, two are still in college, um, three are on their own. And then my daughter's the only
00:22:04.320 | one still at home. She's 14. So whenever we travel, um, you know, they're, they're very
00:22:09.200 | self-sufficient, but the, what they want to do when we go places to go to the skate parks.
00:22:13.920 | And at some point he was like, you guys, can I get a break from skating maybe?
00:22:19.120 | So I ended up going with them as their filmer. That's my role. And we travel together.
00:22:24.720 | We actually talk a lot about travel on the show. I'm imagining you've been to,
00:22:28.560 | I don't know, countless countries. I don't, I don't know if you even keep track.
00:22:31.760 | Is there a favorite? Is there, are there places that you love going and going back to that,
00:22:37.280 | you know, aside from just the skating, there might inspire people listening to.
00:22:41.520 | I, I, Iceland is amazing because it's, the landscape is so diverse. I can't explain it,
00:22:49.360 | but you, like, you go there as soon as you leave the airport, it looks like you're on the moon.
00:22:54.400 | And there's just all of these, all of this, um, moss covering these rocks and there's the blue
00:23:01.040 | lagoon. And, and then as you drive South, it completely changes into like, uh, almost like
00:23:09.280 | a farm setting. And then, and then it changes again, like another half hour into the drive.
00:23:13.840 | And, and, um, yeah, I mean, it can get really cold there, but it's really, it's an amazing place. Um,
00:23:19.760 | and so my wife and I went there a long time ago, almost, almost 15 years ago now,
00:23:26.560 | and it felt very untapped. Definitely wasn't a tourist destination. And now it feels much more
00:23:34.160 | like there is tourism, but if you just drive out of the city, you can see some amazing sites.
00:23:39.920 | My general rule is if you go, not when everyone else goes and leave a little bit
00:23:44.160 | outside, you can have a very different experience. Yeah, we're not afraid to,
00:23:48.160 | to go way off the beaten path, um, which we do a lot. Uh, other than that, Japan is just so,
00:23:54.400 | so surreal. It feels like a video game. I, we just did an episode on Japan and
00:24:03.760 | we, the episode was like three, we were like three hours in and we covered Tokyo and Kyoto,
00:24:08.320 | like with, and Japan couldn't even get kind of close to comprehending the entire country. And
00:24:13.920 | the guy I was talking to had been there 20 times or something. And like, he's just still like
00:24:18.240 | every, everywhere I go, I see something new. So every time. Yeah. And, and we, we brought our
00:24:23.040 | kids when they were all, I brought all of them when they were pretty young, but we brought them
00:24:26.400 | all when they were, you know, just before they were teenagers and they were all mesmerized.
00:24:33.760 | Like it was fascinating. Even, even the, the, even Disneyland is, you know, it's still the
00:24:39.680 | magic kingdom, but it's very different. Japan's one of the coolest places. Uh, early on,
00:24:44.720 | you traveled a lot as a skater before you'd hit the kind of success you've had now. I gotta ask
00:24:50.480 | a question. I know everyone is thinking because multiple people said I should ask, uh, were you
00:24:55.760 | racking up all these miles? Cause I know you weren't, you weren't making a lot, uh, in the
00:24:59.680 | early days, uh, especially in that kind of mid part of your career. What was that like? You know,
00:25:05.680 | you were tall, you started getting tall, uncomfortable. We're using points where
00:25:09.200 | you're trying to get status upgrades. I, I honestly, I didn't, I didn't fly first class
00:25:14.800 | until I was in my thirties. Were you optimizing things when you traveled thinking, okay, I'm gonna
00:25:20.800 | rack up a bunch of miles. Um, yeah, but also just, I just learned how to travel more efficiently and,
00:25:26.080 | and a little bit lighter and, um, and how to navigate airports and lines and, and, you know,
00:25:34.480 | where the best security checkpoint is instead of the one where everyone's just being fed into
00:25:40.080 | just stuff like that. Um, I guess I learned how to, how to be a better traveler in those days,
00:25:45.680 | but I'd learned the value of, of frequent flyer miles through those years when, when, especially
00:25:51.920 | when, um, when I wasn't making very much money, but I had, did have still have to travel to go do
00:25:59.760 | stuff. Um, I collected a lot of miles. Yeah. I mean, I was a million miler on United very early
00:26:06.240 | on. Yeah. You know what they sent me for that luggage? That was going to be my guest. Like,
00:26:13.280 | it's not a very rewarding, rewarding experience. So here you go. 10 bucks. Yeah. Um, what would,
00:26:20.000 | what would some of the things, if you were telling your favorite travel hacks to how you make your
00:26:24.080 | life efficient when you travel, whether it's, you know, a secret neck pillow or some crazy,
00:26:28.160 | you know, I mask. Um, well, let's see. I just, I just flew home from New York
00:26:34.480 | and it was last minute. And so I'm in the bulkhead. Um, I do, I do like, I don't know. It's not,
00:26:41.840 | it's not some great hack, but if you want to travel with your laptop or anything else,
00:26:47.680 | cause you know, you have to put your backpack up in the overhead. We're getting into the weeds
00:26:51.040 | here. But if you're in the, if you're in the bulkhead, take your laptop out and put it right
00:26:57.280 | under your feet so that half of it's kind of under your, your own seat. And then the other half,
00:27:02.400 | you just kind of lightly put your heels on it. It'll hide it from the flight attendants.
00:27:05.680 | And then you have your laptop, you don't have to go up and get it, which is like laptop sleeves.
00:27:12.560 | I like to get like a black one. Cause then it just blends in everywhere. Yeah. I'm pretty
00:27:16.080 | good at just hiding it all together. Um, and then usually like I'll have a little bag. It's
00:27:21.920 | actually my toiletry kit. And then I just stuff like my headphones and my, uh, iPhone cable,
00:27:29.360 | you know, everything you need, everything I need, but just put that and then put that on
00:27:32.720 | the side of the seat. So then I'll see that either. That's my bulkhead hack for you.
00:27:35.520 | Um, but as far as other travel, I think I learned also just to,
00:27:44.480 | you know, I I'm, it's not like I carry some big wardrobe or anything, but I do try to
00:27:50.000 | keep it down to a carry on in a backpack. If I can't at all costs, cause I don't want to check
00:27:57.680 | bags. I can't, I'll tell you that the biggest travel hacks for skateboards and, you know,
00:28:03.520 | people, people will travel with skateboards, but you can travel with the skateboard and put it in
00:28:08.480 | the overhead anywhere in the U S if you're, if you're making a connection, say in Frankfurt or
00:28:15.920 | London, um, or, uh, even Tokyo, you, is it Tokyo? Yeah. You can't carry your skateboard on the plane
00:28:27.360 | through those airports. So I have been told, uh, I've, I've been told a couple of times I've
00:28:36.320 | actually gotten away with it once, but, um, and I learned, learned the hard way, like going through
00:28:40.320 | London, you're in the terminal, you're connecting, right. But you know how they have to, you have to
00:28:46.240 | go through another, um, uh, security checkpoint. You can't bring your skateboard. So you have to
00:28:51.280 | go outside the airport on a connecting flight and check it in. And probably miss your flight. Maybe.
00:28:57.360 | Oh yeah. Yeah. No, I've actually thrown a skateboard away because of that. Yeah. In London,
00:29:01.600 | they said, Oh, you got to check it out. I don't have time. They go, well, I don't know what to
00:29:04.960 | tell you. And then I, I put it in the trash can at the security checkpoint. Okay. I think it's a
00:29:11.840 | safety risk. I think it's a weapon or I assume. Yeah. I mean, also Mexico too, surprisingly,
00:29:18.480 | you can't carry a skateboard on the airplane in Mexico. So every time we travel with the kids,
00:29:23.200 | Mexico, we've got to put them all in plastic bags. So we're just this, we're a disaster coming back
00:29:28.880 | cause we're just a bunch of luggage. Um, so yeah, that's my, that's my advice. I don't know if it's
00:29:34.400 | a hack, it's just my advice. Like if you're going to travel through Europe, don't carry your
00:29:38.480 | skateboard onto the plane that is connecting. That could probably apply to other items. There
00:29:44.320 | are some, I can't remember, not that it's the end of the world to replace things like nail scissors,
00:29:49.600 | but there's some nail clippers. There's some country where you can't bring nail clippers on
00:29:53.120 | your plane. Cause I remember, or if it has that like slide out file and I've definitely gotten
00:29:58.720 | dinged on that. So I would say if the hack is to look up, what are the security requirements for
00:30:04.880 | the country you're transiting through? Uh, or, you know, I try at all costs to fly direct just
00:30:11.040 | to avoid these problems when possible. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, yeah,
00:30:15.600 | there used to be, I live in San Diego, but I live in North County and you used to be able to fly
00:30:19.920 | from Carlsbad airport to LAX. And so basically you could go anywhere from LAX. Right. So that
00:30:26.560 | was always like the best way to do it. But, um, many times our Carlsbad flight would be canceled
00:30:33.360 | and we just have to drive, you know, literally drive to Carlsbad airport, like a couple of flights
00:30:37.440 | canceled. Just keep going North to LAX. Um, but, uh, yeah, it's funny with the, with the skateboard
00:30:45.760 | thing. I remember, so my wife and I usually carry our skateboards when we go places. Cause we like
00:30:52.800 | to, we like to skate around cities, you know, just as transportation, um, if we're going by ourselves
00:30:58.000 | and we're coming back from, oh man, I can't remember where somewhere. Um, and I think we
00:31:06.320 | were coming back from Brazil maybe. And we were coming through the, um, where you hand them your
00:31:15.040 | customs form. And the guy, I'll never forget this. He grabbed my customs form and he saw
00:31:22.000 | my skateboard in his peripheral. And immediately it was like, go that way to secondary.
00:31:27.760 | Cause he saw my skateboard. It was so obvious the way that his, you know what I mean? Like I
00:31:33.120 | just saw his wheelchair and like, oh, he's a problem. He's a skateboarder. And he looked up
00:31:36.800 | and he saw my face and he recognized it, but he'd already handed me this red card to go to secondary.
00:31:42.480 | And he goes, oh, oh, you know what? Just tell them you're in a hurry. I said, oh, is that going to
00:31:47.360 | work for me? You're sending me to secondary where they're going to go through all my stuff. And I'm
00:31:50.720 | going to tell him I'm in a hurry. That's probably not the best approach. And then my wife and I
00:31:55.760 | got into secondary. They wouldn't let us go to the bathroom. They wouldn't, you know, we were like,
00:31:59.200 | we were very much, um, uh, being interrogated. Yeah. I mean, you've, you've told lots of
00:32:05.840 | stories. I'll, I'll encourage anyone here to go check out the internet for all the stories of
00:32:09.840 | you getting recognized as other people. Uh, is there a good one? You don't care.
00:32:16.000 | Yeah. Um, yeah, I, I, it still happens all the time. And it's weird now because obviously,
00:32:23.200 | as you would know that, that, that meme kind of took off, um, or not the meme, but just me
00:32:31.680 | telling my story, like all the stories that tell it are absolutely true. 100%. Um, but it started
00:32:38.640 | happening. So it would happen pretty frequently and I was sharing it. And at some point people
00:32:42.800 | thought I was making it up. So I kind of stopped sharing these incidents because people were just
00:32:47.040 | like, come on, like, really? But now it's gotten to the point where it's like this, this vicious
00:32:53.120 | cycle where people now want to say it, even though they know who I am all the time. So I would say
00:33:00.080 | that happens probably three times a day. That, that interaction, like anyone ever tell you,
00:33:06.160 | you look like Tony Hawk. Yup. And you're the first today. Um, but then, but then it happens
00:33:12.320 | genuinely at least once or twice too. And the, when it happens genuinely, if people were following me
00:33:18.160 | around, they wouldn't believe it. Cause you know what I mean? Like they just, they hear about it
00:33:22.640 | and it's just like, all right, like enough with this non, you know, this, this whole, um, I don't
00:33:28.160 | even know what you call it. Mistaken identity thing. Yeah. But the, so yes, it still happens.
00:33:36.080 | It happens as a joke. It happens for real. The, the, I think my favorite one as of late was that
00:33:42.640 | I was sitting at a gate and this guy was sitting across from me at the gate. Um, and he, he looked,
00:33:50.240 | he came over, he's a man, you know, you look just like Tony Hawk. He said, oh yeah, I know. I've
00:33:54.400 | heard that. He's like, it's crazy. And then he went and sat back down and then a group of people
00:34:00.080 | came who did recognize me for real and wanted autographs and pictures. And the whole time he's
00:34:07.200 | watching me laughing because he's in on the joke that it's not really me. Do you know what I mean?
00:34:14.800 | Like he and I are sharing this inside joke somehow that these people are crazy and they're mistaken,
00:34:20.640 | but he just thought it was hilarious. Did you ever tell him at the end? Or did he ever? No,
00:34:24.880 | I don't. I, I just, it's up to them to, you know what I mean? To either decide that or to ask me,
00:34:29.760 | it drives my daughter crazy because a lot of times people will say it until you look like Tony Hawk.
00:34:35.840 | I'm like, yeah, they, yeah. And it's, that's cool. And they walk away and my daughter's like,
00:34:39.520 | why didn't you tell him? I go, he didn't ask. So if someone asks, you'll say, yeah, of course. Yeah.
00:34:44.320 | All right. Well, I hope whoever was sitting across from you at the airport is listening
00:34:46.880 | and they can finally come to terms with the fact that that was way more fun in his mind,
00:34:52.800 | making fun of people. Yeah. Like that was, that was his thing. So I just let him run with it.
00:34:57.600 | So to round out travel, you know, I'm sure you buy lots of things. Do you, do you play the points
00:35:04.560 | game? Do you try to rack up points or cash back on credit cards to travel for free still?
00:35:09.600 | Yes. I, I try to, well, I try to focus in on, you know, one or two airlines or their partners so
00:35:18.320 | that I rack up the most points on, on them which is for the most part United and Delta. But also
00:35:25.520 | all my credit card purchases go towards miles. And so I use those for my team. So for instance,
00:35:35.120 | we have the skater Felipe Nunez from Brazil. You might've seen him. He's a double amputee
00:35:42.320 | and he skates with he skates like kind of sitting on his board, but he's amazing.
00:35:47.040 | It's crazy. I'll find a link to it and put it in the show notes.
00:35:50.400 | Like truly deserves to be a pro skater. Like he is incredible and has only gotten better,
00:35:55.840 | but it's tricky because he lives in a really small town, a couple hours from Sao Paulo. So
00:36:01.920 | in Curitiba, so for me to get him flights is always really tricky and challenging, but I do it
00:36:08.240 | using my visa points and I can get him his flights all the time. So anybody, he has to travel with
00:36:16.560 | kind of a handler and it's a whole thing. But that's, and I use that for his flights. I use
00:36:21.680 | him for my other skaters flights if they need to get somewhere for a skate trip or whatever. And,
00:36:25.760 | and it's been, it's been awesome. Yeah. I'm, I'm always, everyone's always
00:36:30.240 | surprised that it seems like no matter how successful you are, no matter how famous or
00:36:34.160 | rich or whatever you are, everyone still wants to make sure that when they're spending money
00:36:37.840 | on their card, they're getting like the most they can out of their rewards.
00:36:41.200 | Yeah. And I, and also, I mean, just with, with me, sometimes other groups, uh, do my travel.
00:36:48.480 | If I'm going to an event, I do a lot of speaking gigs, um, corporate gigs and whatnot and
00:36:52.880 | conferences. And so sometimes it's up to them to do the travel and they don't plug in my,
00:36:58.960 | my advantage number or my, you know, my mileage plus number or whatever. And
00:37:02.480 | it's, it's such a hassle. Like it's, it's, it all seems so frivolous, but it's important
00:37:09.040 | because it's like, you get in it, you can go to a different line, you know what I mean?
00:37:13.200 | For security or whatever it is. And, and there's just some efficiency to it. And when you travel
00:37:17.440 | as much as I do, those things count for a lot. Yeah. I know someone who's like, they're part of
00:37:22.480 | their rider for speaking is like, I will book my flights and you will reimburse me because
00:37:26.640 | I just don't usually what we do, but, but every once in a while it slips through the cracks.
00:37:31.040 | Yeah. Uh, well, if anyone's listening, if you ever take a flight and you didn't put your number in,
00:37:35.440 | you can actually retroactively ask for credit. So if you're ever forget, yes,
00:37:39.040 | uh, the airlines do allow you to do that. It's better to do it at a ticket counter though.
00:37:43.200 | Yes. They can do it fast. They can do it immediately. That's the other thing is,
00:37:46.960 | is people like they wield such great power at the ticket counters. They could literally just
00:37:52.880 | put you on a flight to London first class without blinking an eye. If, if they wanted to.
00:37:58.640 | It always amazes me when someone's flight, something happened and they're yelling at this
00:38:03.440 | person. And I'm like, you realize the person that holds the keys to whatever your situation will be
00:38:08.800 | is that person who is not responsible for your delay or for your seat mix up.
00:38:15.440 | I think just being nice to the person at the desk and can pay dividends on.
00:38:19.920 | So absolutely. Yeah, no, I agreed. Yeah. I I've never scored this kind of mythical.
00:38:25.520 | We're just going to upgrade you for no reason kind of thing. Obviously if you have status,
00:38:28.960 | you can get it right. But, um, but everything else like, Oh, my flight's gone. They could decide,
00:38:33.920 | do I want to put you on that easy connection or you want to do, I want to just give you a
00:38:37.040 | coupon and you can get a hotel and come back tomorrow. And, uh, playing that game is,
00:38:41.760 | has been very helpful. And if that line's too long, I always try to call
00:38:45.360 | and see if I can get someone faster than a long line. Like when a flight's canceled and there's
00:38:49.120 | a hundred people lined up. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I can, I, so I have all the apps,
00:38:55.440 | you know, the flight track, like that will sometimes alert me
00:38:58.080 | to a problem by flight before the airline does. So I'm, I'm always kind of ahead of the curve
00:39:04.560 | with that where it's like, Oh, this thing's getting canceled. I'm going to go figure this
00:39:08.240 | out before everyone else at the gate knows that's what's happening. And you're like telling them,
00:39:11.920 | you're like the flight's canceled. She's like, what, what? Oh yes, it is. Yeah. Yeah. You're
00:39:16.080 | telling them. Um, so one other area that we haven't talked a lot about is around kind of
00:39:22.400 | health and fitness and, you know, people like Laird Hamilton go nuts about everything they do
00:39:27.280 | with their regime for exercise, sauna, all this stuff, skateboarding. I think some people,
00:39:32.960 | especially when I was a kid, like didn't even see it as a physical sport. I can,
00:39:36.640 | I can assure you, I'm sure you can assure everyone that it is. How much was kind of
00:39:42.000 | diet exercise training outside of skating important or, or how has that evolved as you've
00:39:48.080 | gotten older? I think in the early days it, I didn't, I didn't recognize the importance
00:39:53.760 | of, of my diet and training and whatnot, but I was so obsessed with skating that that was all
00:40:01.840 | my exercise. And that was enough because I was skating three to four hours a day, every day,
00:40:07.520 | um, giving it a mile. So I think that over time I, and also just seeing my peers, I saw
00:40:18.000 | a lot of them not take care of themselves, drinking too much, partying and, and really
00:40:22.720 | kind of losing their skillsets. And so skating was always such a paramount importance to me
00:40:28.960 | that I was never going to let that happen. And I saw it by example, like, Oh man, he's not skating
00:40:35.120 | good. Oh, that's because he won't stop partying. And so for me, that was sort of the first lesson
00:40:41.280 | was, was not, not completely, but, but clean living for the most part. But as I grew older,
00:40:48.080 | then I realized the importance of, of diet and of trying to stay active when I can't skate.
00:40:54.000 | And now, especially at my age and with my, my current recovery, um, I I've learned that I
00:41:00.480 | got to stay active. Even if I can't skate, I got to, and I need to do so much stuff to help. I I'm
00:41:07.200 | recovering from a broken femur from last year. I need to do so many things to help that healing.
00:41:12.080 | Um, and it, it, it was at one point it was because it was a full-time job and I had to kind of back
00:41:18.480 | off from it. Cause I was like, maybe I just need to wait, just give it time instead of trying to
00:41:23.520 | do all these other things like hyperbaric chamber and laser treatment and acupuncture and peptides.
00:41:29.120 | And, and I was going all the way in with all those treatments. Um, and, and at some point
00:41:35.200 | it didn't, I actually went the wrong way with my recovery, but only because I, I couldn't stop
00:41:42.000 | skating. So my bone never connected to itself. It never actually became one bone again. So I had it
00:41:50.320 | reset, um, two months ago. And are there things that you think that you've experimented with,
00:41:55.840 | whether it's diet or, you know, different kinds of treatment that you think you'll keep in a
00:42:01.040 | routine or that are lasting or things like breathwork or yoga or any of those things that
00:42:06.240 | are part of your routine? I think, uh, swimming helped me with my strength a lot when I wasn't
00:42:12.400 | skating. So I'm, I'm going to lean into that more, um, going forward, including with my skating. Um,
00:42:20.240 | and, and just trying to, you know, it was more like, um, not eating to excess and not indulging
00:42:29.760 | in sweets and sodas and stuff like that. Um, I, I still, I still carry a lot of my habits from,
00:42:36.400 | from as a kid, then I still enjoy, you know, not the healthiest of foods, but I don't go all in
00:42:44.320 | on just fast food and just the, you know, more, um, stuff that's going to slow me down and, and
00:42:51.280 | try to make a concerted effort to take supplements, to eat greens, um, you know,
00:42:58.640 | less processed foods, stuff like that. What kind of supplements? Well, I take, uh, quite a few,
00:43:03.440 | but, but most importantly, I have to take a stat now because I have high cholesterol because of my
00:43:07.520 | family history. So I take, um, QNAL CoQ10. Um, I actually, it was funny because they were looking
00:43:15.840 | for, they reached out to me about possibly doing an endorsement. Like, do you know what this is?
00:43:20.960 | You know, I take it. I literally take it every day. Wow. And so, uh, I was kind of the perfect
00:43:27.120 | one for their campaign. You know what I mean? So it's stuff like that, but multivitamins too.
00:43:32.480 | Okay. And a bevy of other ones just trying to keep my, um, you know, all my, my levels balanced.
00:43:40.720 | What about the morning routine? Are you early, early up and early after it?
00:43:45.280 | Yeah. Well, we still have a, we still have one at home. Um, usually I got to make sure my daughter
00:43:49.920 | is up and getting ready by 7:00 AM. So I'm usually up by six 30. I mean, that's not crazy early, but
00:43:56.080 | sometimes it's six. Um, and that's kind of my time to, uh, try to go through my communications
00:44:06.000 | emails and, and whatnot. Um, because as the day starts and as like she goes to school,
00:44:12.080 | I come here, this is my office. This is my ramp is, um, things get crazy through the day.
00:44:17.440 | And so it's hard to stay on top of communication. Yeah. I heard you say in a podcast almost five
00:44:23.760 | years ago that your kryptonite was time. I'm curious. I'm curious if in the last few years,
00:44:30.000 | you've made any changes, whether it's to time management or anything that's made you more
00:44:35.040 | productive. Uh, yeah, I've learned to say no. I mean, it's hard, especially when things are,
00:44:41.280 | things are growing and things are successful and people are, are asking for your time and, and,
00:44:47.600 | and for whatever, for, for you to attend events or for you to do interviews and things like that.
00:44:55.360 | And at some point I thought, I don't need to do these things. And I don't think that they are
00:45:02.560 | necessarily beneficial. I don't know, you know, that they just don't seem like they should be so
00:45:09.600 | obligatory. Um, I'm honored that people want to talk to me and that people want me to do stuff.
00:45:14.080 | But at some point I needed for my own sanity, for my own, and also for my own family dynamic
00:45:21.840 | to just be available to them and not be on the, on the move all the time or just home on my phone.
00:45:27.360 | That's, I think that's one thing that people don't necessarily recognize is that just because
00:45:34.240 | you are home, if your attention is elsewhere, you're not really home. Yeah. I think it's something
00:45:39.280 | that when you have young kids, you start to realize, wow, like the number of times I'm just
00:45:43.680 | a little bit distracted, uh, because they run off and you're like, whoa, I was distracted.
00:45:48.480 | They're no longer trying to show you something. And you're like, uh-huh. Yep. Yep. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
00:45:51.680 | And you think that that's good enough, but they, they see that, you know, and, and, and they, that,
00:45:55.520 | that can be effect that can affect them. Yeah. I think in some ways it might've been much easier
00:46:01.520 | to be a parent before all of the distraction that we have. Yeah. In other ways, I think it was way
00:46:06.160 | harder. Yeah. So I, I, I was very young. I was 24 when my, when my first son was born and, um,
00:46:13.920 | that was, you know, there were no DVRs. We were still using VHS and he would wake up super early.
00:46:20.160 | And sometimes before Sesame street was on the air, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, what do we get?
00:46:26.640 | Let's read a book or do something. Um, so yeah, it's, uh, you know, you, you learn and you learn
00:46:32.400 | to, you learn to entertain the old fashioned way, storytelling. It's like, uh, that I find this on
00:46:40.400 | flights now. It's like, you're on a flight, you're on Southwest. There's no TVs. There's
00:46:44.320 | no device. Like you're sitting there and you're like, it's amazing how kids are like, I want to
00:46:48.560 | run around. And you're like, well, you can't run around. I want to read a book. Okay. Five minutes
00:46:52.400 | in. I don't want to read a book anymore. So, uh, I think flights in that kind of toddler age are
00:46:56.880 | really tough. Um, one thing I will, I'll tell you a hack for toddlers, since you do have young ones
00:47:03.280 | and this is going to be weird, but it worked for me a couple of times. My son was prone to, um,
00:47:09.440 | being carsick sometimes, um, and, and on planes too. Um, and so sometimes we would be walking
00:47:17.680 | through a terminal or something, and then he would just barf. And I learned that, um, it's very easy
00:47:24.000 | to remove your shoe, remove one sock, use that as a rag and just throw the sock away and deal with
00:47:32.160 | just wearing one sock the rest of your trip or your day to, to save from having to try to go some
00:47:39.440 | massive cleanup effort. The sock burp cloth. What's that? The sock burp cloth. Sock burp cloth.
00:47:44.800 | Yeah. Yeah. I've done, I've done it a few times. The last thing we didn't really talk on was around
00:47:50.720 | money. So early on in your career, you were making six figures in high school. So I'm,
00:47:55.280 | I'm trying to comprehend that, you know, most people in high school are making
00:47:58.960 | maybe a couple bucks on a side gig. What was money? What was the relationship with
00:48:03.600 | money like back then? Well, it was all a big surprise. Cause it wasn't like,
00:48:07.920 | it wasn't like you got into skateboarding to be rich or famous. No one had become rich or famous.
00:48:14.880 | No one made money doing it. You just did it cause you loved it. And all of a sudden there was this
00:48:19.200 | fame and there was this money. And I was in my late teens. I I'd say I started making pretty
00:48:25.840 | good money around 16, 17. And it was like, Oh, this is awesome. I'm going to take all my friends
00:48:32.880 | to Hawaii. I'm going to sharper image and buying all the gear. And, and at some point my dad
00:48:39.520 | gave me the best advice. He said, I really think you should put some of that money away.
00:48:44.560 | I was like, why? As if it's just going to keep raining down on me. And he said, well, you know,
00:48:50.640 | you just don't know if this is going to last. And, and, um, cause he really wanted me to go
00:48:54.800 | to college. And it's like, if you're going to do this, you should really, you should really save
00:49:00.000 | from what you're making here. And so when I was 17, he co-signed, uh, a, a mortgage for a home
00:49:09.760 | that like we, I bought a home when I was 17, it was my money, but he co-signed it just cause I was
00:49:15.280 | not 18. And cause you might not have had, had the income to qualify for a more, more. No, I did. I
00:49:20.800 | had the income to qualify, but I literally was not old enough to sign the paperwork by myself.
00:49:25.680 | So he co-signed on, on a house for me. So I lived in my own place as a senior in high school,
00:49:32.400 | as if I was in college with your parents, weren't there. So, and then I had all the high school
00:49:38.320 | parties. I had one roommate that was also at the same high school. We had two older roommates that
00:49:42.880 | just had jobs, but were young enough to be, um, taking advantage of the situation. And so, you
00:49:53.760 | know, when you're in high school, whoever's friends are out of town, that's where the party
00:49:57.760 | is. My, my, whoever's friends, uh, whoever's friends' parents were out of town, that's the
00:50:03.120 | house where the party is, right? My parents were never in town. So my house was always where the
00:50:07.840 | party was. And it got, it was very challenging to stay focused on school when I'm already making
00:50:14.400 | more than my teachers and I'm, everyone's coming over to hang out and then I'm supposed to get up
00:50:20.960 | early and drive to high school. Um, but I did, I mean, I, I did mostly because of how important my
00:50:27.680 | parents, how much they valued education. My mom was a teacher, um, at a junior college at the time.
00:50:35.360 | And so I knew they'd be really disappointed if I just left.
00:50:38.880 | So finishing high school was like a very. Well, yeah, it was important. Yeah.
00:50:42.880 | Yeah. And then did you keep saving or was the house the kind of saving grace?
00:50:48.720 | The house was saving grace. Yeah. I, I, um, well, I got in kind of over my head. So a few years
00:50:54.480 | later I bought another property. I built a bunch of big ramps on it. It was, it was a four acre
00:51:01.040 | lot here, kind of East San Diego. And, um, at some point, not long after that, my income started
00:51:08.480 | dropping by half, by half every month because it was all royalty based. It was all based on,
00:51:14.800 | um, items or products with my name on it. Skating was taking a downturn in popularity. So suddenly
00:51:21.840 | skating is not popular. My name's not popular. My products aren't selling and I'm stuck with
00:51:26.960 | two mortgages, my first child on the way. And it was like, how did I get here? This is crazy. So
00:51:33.360 | I sold my house for basically, um, I had taken a second, I had taken equity out of it to start a
00:51:41.760 | skate company, which seems like not the smartest move at a time when your income's dropping,
00:51:46.560 | but I wanted to stay in the industry. And I wanted to, at that point, have more control
00:51:51.520 | over a brand because up to then I had been skating for the same sponsor for 10 years.
00:51:57.040 | And their, their popularity was waning. So was skateboarding. And I thought, well,
00:52:03.760 | I could probably just start a brand and be behind the scenes because it seems like now
00:52:07.200 | my career as a skater is starting to fall apart, but I could, I could at the very least be effective
00:52:14.480 | as sort of a team manager, curator, marketer. And so I took, uh, the equity out of my house,
00:52:23.200 | started Birdhouse Skateboards, um, sold the house for what I owed on it, then moved back into the
00:52:28.960 | house I was living at as a senior in high school. And, and for probably three to four years lived
00:52:38.080 | off of Top Ramen, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, Taco Bell, um, and just made it
00:52:43.680 | work. And those were the years when I started to have to travel to make ends meet like Japan
00:52:51.360 | and bring my son along. You know what I mean? That's, that's how that all unraveled.
00:52:57.200 | There wasn't childcare at home to help out because if you're eating Top Ramen, it's, it's tough.
00:53:04.160 | And then things changed. Birdhouse took off. How did that evolve? Like now are you much more
00:53:09.440 | passionate or interested about money and saving and all of that? Or, or where, where's your
00:53:13.920 | relationship? Well, I have, I have a much more respect for, for saving money and, and for being,
00:53:22.960 | um, for making sure everyone's taken care of my, especially with our kids. Um, you know,
00:53:27.760 | I want them to all forge their own way for sure. But at the same time, we, we want to be able to
00:53:32.160 | know that we have a nest egg in case something goes south. So, um, my relationship is just that
00:53:37.840 | I have, I have much more reverence and respect for it. And that I also don't take every single
00:53:45.520 | opportunity. And I mean, that, that was a big, you know, that, that's a reason why I had so many
00:53:49.760 | relationships fall apart too. Cause I just kept chasing the carrot even when it was huge, even
00:53:54.560 | when I didn't need to at all. I just kept going. I, it was like, it was like, I couldn't turn it
00:53:59.520 | off. And then at some point I realized like, what I'm losing, I'm missing, I'm missing my, my kids
00:54:06.480 | formative years chasing some, some dream that I've already realized. Yeah. I think at a different
00:54:14.160 | scale, it's something that we all face is like, you know, you have kids and you're like, I can't
00:54:19.520 | go to the thing. I can't go to the thing. And I think if you pause and reflect for a moment,
00:54:23.440 | you're like, but it's okay. Like I miss the day, but it's so hard to process that. And, and like
00:54:30.000 | FOMO is definitely real. But if, if there's one thing that, you know, your kids can teach you,
00:54:35.360 | even when they're really young, it's like, you can miss the thing. Like, it's okay.
00:54:39.760 | Oh yeah. It's okay. Yeah. And, and also if you, if you, if you really devote yourself, um,
00:54:46.480 | to that time with your kids, you see, you just see the, the gleam in their eye. And you see that,
00:54:54.160 | that, that they appreciate it. You know, they're not going to speak it to you. Good luck getting
00:55:00.480 | your kids to say thank you, by the way, for anything, but, um, but they do appreciate it.
00:55:04.400 | And, and they, you know, and they thrive because of it. Um, but I think it was just that I had
00:55:09.600 | gotten so used to the hustle of, of not being successful and just going all the time, trying
00:55:17.200 | to, trying to create something, trying to make something happen that when it started to happen
00:55:21.680 | in droves, how could I let it go? That, that seems crazy. That's impossible. Why would I not do that?
00:55:28.800 | Um, and at some point I lost myself in it. Is there something that you wish you'd known,
00:55:34.480 | or you'd wish someone had told you that could have gotten you out of that earlier?
00:55:38.720 | I don't, I don't think so. I think it was all so new and fantastical to me that,
00:55:44.080 | that I don't think I was going to listen to a voice of reason, you know what I mean?
00:55:48.240 | Um, and so now you've got plenty of things that could keep you busy. What,
00:55:52.640 | what's the focus now? I mean, you're still skating or you will probably after you, you heal.
00:55:57.360 | Yeah. Um, now I, I mean, I'm just so thankful to still be in the scene and to be able to
00:56:06.480 | bear witness to skateboarding's massive, um, acceptance. I don't want to say growth. I mean,
00:56:13.120 | it definitely has grown hugely in the last five or 10 years, but, um, just to see it come of age and
00:56:20.480 | to be an activity, a sport, a lifestyle that is all inclusive, that is super diverse, that is now
00:56:28.960 | an Olympic sport. It's, it's something that, that, um, people like transcends boundaries,
00:56:37.200 | cultures, economics, you know, people that get together to skate, they don't care where you're
00:56:42.560 | from. They just care if you're, how you skate. Um, and it's low cost of entry. And so to see it
00:56:48.320 | come this far and to still be considered relevant, that's, that's the greatest joy I have. So
00:56:52.960 | what am I doing? I'm, I'm doing whatever I can to still be an advocate for skating
00:56:57.760 | and to be able to skate myself because that's still is the most fun for me. Um, but whatever,
00:57:05.520 | kind of whatever comes along. I mean, and like I said, I do a lot of speaking gigs now,
00:57:10.560 | which I never imagined would be a way of living or a source of income. I say it all the time
00:57:16.880 | because when I go to these things, it's just like, look, I never imagined anyone would pay me to
00:57:20.000 | skate. So I certainly never imagined that people would pay me to talk about skateboarding. Um,
00:57:26.240 | but here we are and it's a blast. I love it. And you think, what's the advice to someone who's
00:57:32.480 | passionate about a thing that's not necessarily a revenue source for their life right now?
00:57:37.520 | It's what's going to bring you the most joy and it's worth it. You know, I think it's,
00:57:44.560 | if you go to work and your work makes you happy, that's living the dream
00:57:49.360 | at any level. And, and, and if, if it's, if it's very successful financially,
00:57:57.040 | great, that's just sort of gravy, but it's more about your peace of mind.
00:58:01.840 | And, and I think that if there is something that makes you truly happy and maybe you have to do
00:58:08.720 | something else to supplement your income, try to balance those things as best you can.
00:58:12.720 | Yeah. I've actually, I've turned my position on this in the past few years. I used to say,
00:58:17.280 | I'll go follow your passion, you know, find a way to make that your job.
00:58:20.240 | But if you have a job that allows you to follow your passion, not as a job,
00:58:24.480 | that's okay. Yeah. That's, that's, that's enough. And for a lot of people, my,
00:58:28.880 | my brother-in-law went pro golfing and then hated it because it was his job.
00:58:33.440 | And then what got a job and just golfs on the weekend and loves it. And so I think for some
00:58:38.720 | people, even pursuing it to some extent can actually take away. I don't know if there was
00:58:42.480 | ever a moment in your career where it was like skating to win competitions and to win trophies
00:58:46.960 | was just too much and it took away the fun. Yeah, for sure. Especially in the, in the late
00:58:54.080 | eighties, that was the, that I, I became a machine and it was very cyclical and it was like, all
00:58:59.600 | right, there's an event coming up next weekend. I've got to learn a couple of new tricks for the
00:59:04.160 | event because the judges saw what I'm, you know, they, they saw my current roster of tricks. So
00:59:10.480 | I got to hide it from them and then unleash it in the finals. And then, but it became so formulaic
00:59:17.120 | that it really was not fun. And at some point I just pulled away and stepped away from it
00:59:22.080 | altogether because skating had become a job and it wasn't fun for me. And then when I did pull away,
00:59:30.400 | I, I got very creative with my skating and I was able to really learn
00:59:34.160 | a lot of different techniques and a lot of stuff that I wanted to pursue,
00:59:38.480 | even though I wasn't making a living at it at the time. I mean, I kind of was, I still had
00:59:44.480 | signature skateboards and whatnot, but when you're not in those years, if you were not competing
00:59:48.720 | actively, you were not going to get coverage. You were not going to get career opportunities,
00:59:56.160 | but I was willing to let those go to just at least be happy with it. And so it gave me this
01:00:02.720 | sort of new energy to come back to competing and with a different approach that was more,
01:00:08.720 | it was more, I don't know how to explain it. I guess, I guess it was, it was less careful
01:00:17.520 | and it was more risky. That was it. I came, I came at it with a, with a sense of, I'm going
01:00:24.800 | to just try everything. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I'd rather just do this and take
01:00:29.600 | the chances and have fun doing it. And if it works, then it's going to work awesomely.
01:00:33.440 | The downside to that was that when I did come back to competing, it was when skateboarding
01:00:39.760 | was starting to take a downturn. So I came back with this renewed energy and I was winning a lot
01:00:44.720 | of big events. And all of a sudden it was like, what happened? Where's the crowd? Where's the
01:00:49.520 | contest? Where's the prize money? You guys like turn the machines back on. I thought this was
01:00:54.240 | cool. And so I, you know, it was kind of like the wrong place at the right time.
01:00:59.280 | But you probably wouldn't have had the career you had after that had that not happened.
01:01:03.280 | No, no. Because in, in those dead years, I was skating more than ever. Um, having fun doing it,
01:01:12.400 | you know, learning new tricks and learning new techniques. It was just that I wasn't
01:01:15.200 | doing it in front of crowds because the crowds weren't there anymore.
01:01:19.520 | Yeah. I think I'm very fortunate that, and I think you did the same with your podcast. Like
01:01:23.120 | when you start a podcast, if you can start it, not needing to be your, your job and your business,
01:01:28.480 | you could do whatever you want with it. You can kind of say, you know what? This podcast was not,
01:01:32.800 | you know, when I started it, I never thought I'd be going over countries as episodes. And then I
01:01:36.320 | was like, yeah, I'm going to London. I want to talk to someone who knows everything about London.
01:01:39.440 | Let's make an episode about London. And then we do it on Japan. So I think when you really start
01:01:44.480 | to do what you're passionate about in your work, it sometimes creates an even better experience.
01:01:49.920 | And people love these episodes. And I never had an idea, but.
01:01:52.080 | Oh yeah. No, I think, well, my, my cohost, Jason Ellis and I, we have a lot of, of, uh,
01:01:58.960 | we have a lot of experience, obviously skating, but just life experience. He, he was, you know,
01:02:03.280 | had a totally different path than I did. And when we have guests, especially with non-skating guests,
01:02:09.360 | we relate to them in different ways that people would not expect, but, but in a very,
01:02:14.400 | in a very parallel way. Um, for instance, we had two wrestlers on, uh, that's our most recent guest
01:02:22.560 | and Darby Allen and Jamie Hader. And people were like, why would you have them on? And then when
01:02:27.280 | we started to talk about our experiences and our injuries, we were right in line and we were
01:02:32.240 | bouncing off of each other. And it was a really great conversation. It was fascinating, you know,
01:02:36.400 | and say what you will about, about wrestling or that it's made up or whatever it is. They are,
01:02:41.600 | those guys take as much abuse as skateboarders. Yeah. It was great. I listened to this episode.
01:02:49.600 | It was wild to kind of, I don't think I've gotten that behind the scenes look at wrestling. Uh,
01:02:55.200 | you know, it hasn't been a passion of mine, but it was super fascinating and you don't have to
01:02:59.360 | say who, but I know there's some cool guests coming down the pike. So if anyone's listening,
01:03:03.280 | yeah, we have, um, we have a, an insane roster coming up and, and, uh, I feel like now we're
01:03:10.000 | starting to hit our stride and we've been doing it a couple of years. So you're right. It wasn't
01:03:13.920 | something that we needed and, but we enjoy doing it. And we did find that we had something unique
01:03:18.800 | to offer. We found a groove, we found an audience. Um, it was just that we weren't doing all the,
01:03:24.640 | the right things with the algorithms and the, you know, the promotions. And so now we, we have a
01:03:31.360 | group, uh, Malka that is, um, is taking the reins on that and they've been doing a great job. So
01:03:37.680 | we get to focus more on the content. Podcast is great. I enjoy it. Uh,
01:03:42.720 | especially, especially cause I have my, my childhood skate skate dreams still somewhere
01:03:46.880 | buried in my head for anyone else listening. Where else can they, where else do you want to
01:03:51.840 | send them to keep on top of whatever you're doing? Oh, um, well, I'm out there on all the social
01:03:56.560 | media as Tony Hawk. Um, luckily, uh, I had to, I think, I think I had to buy one of someone,
01:04:05.440 | someone, um, squatted my name on some platform early on. Um, but yeah, so I'm Tony Hawk and all
01:04:11.840 | the social media and that's kind of where I put all of my content out there. Uh, we have the Hawk
01:04:16.400 | versus Wolf podcast. Um, I think if anything, my, my energy also is directed towards the skate park
01:04:23.600 | project, which is my foundation for public skate parks in underserved areas. Um, we have been
01:04:29.200 | doing it over 20 years now. We've helped to fund over a thousand skate parks, um, in the U S alone.
01:04:36.080 | Um, we have a couple of, um, international projects as well. And I think that's my proudest work
01:04:40.800 | because when I was growing up skating, the skate park was my salvation. I know I was,
01:04:46.320 | I was an outcast kid. I was bullied at school, but I found my tribe and my community at the
01:04:51.280 | skate park. And, and I was very lucky that, that the park that I grew up skating at was one of the
01:04:56.960 | last ones in the U S in the mid eighties, there were only a handful. And that was never lost on
01:05:03.360 | me how lucky I was to have that place to go and to have that, that, um, that crew. So when I was
01:05:10.480 | in a position to advocate and to possibly affect change, that's what I, that's what I focused in
01:05:17.360 | on was, was public skate parks. Yeah. I mean, I grew up kind of at the, the born in the early
01:05:22.960 | eighties and that I was in that kind of dearth of, of lack of skate parks, skate parks. And I
01:05:27.840 | think my community was like the guy that lived across the street that had a skateboard. Like
01:05:31.120 | that was it, right. It was the two of us. And, and also that these kids that they find something
01:05:36.560 | they love, right. And they, they maybe live in an area where there's not much opportunity.
01:05:40.400 | They find something they love and they're mostly told that they can't do it because they're
01:05:44.080 | trespassing. Yeah. Or they're a nuisance. They put things to prevent you from doing it.
01:05:48.640 | And it's like, this kid has finally found something that speaks to them.
01:05:52.720 | And now you're discouraging them from that. Like, what, what are you doing to your community?
01:05:57.600 | Um, and so to have those parks, the kids feel like they're, they matter and that they can,
01:06:07.520 | they can find their, their crew. Um, and, uh, the, I think the best part about the foundations, we,
01:06:14.960 | we try to empower groups that are already doing it themselves or trying to do it themselves. Like,
01:06:20.400 | like they're trying to fundraise or they're going to city council meetings or they're petitioning.
01:06:24.720 | All those things matter. And it feels like you're in an uphill battle that will never end,
01:06:34.320 | especially with the red tape and the bureaucracy and city councils, but we give them the roadmap
01:06:40.240 | to do it the right way. And when we do give them our endorsement and possibly funding,
01:06:46.320 | that's usually the tipping point for them to get it approved officially. And so that, you know,
01:06:50.960 | for us, it's empowering the, those, those go-getters that were trying to do it in the first
01:06:56.480 | place. I love it. So you should all definitely check out the podcasts and the socials, but
01:07:00.880 | definitely check out the skate park project. It's, uh, I wish that it was around, you know,
01:07:05.840 | 30 something years ago for me, it would have been awesome. But any, any parting advice for anyone
01:07:11.680 | who's looks at you, it says, gosh, when I'm in my fifties, I want to be doing the thing I love
01:07:15.680 | and, you know, performing at that level. Um, what can I say? I, I think that the, the,
01:07:24.640 | my approach always has been to keep improving what I do. Um, and at my age that's shifted a bit from
01:07:32.880 | trying to do these big spins and these big, big stunts to more subtle techniques, but something
01:07:39.360 | that I feel like is progressive. Um, and I'm talking about just in terms of physical skating,
01:07:43.680 | but also just my approach to life is like to not wrestle my accolades, to keep trying to
01:07:48.800 | improve what I do, keep evolving, listen to other, other input and, um, and glean what you can from
01:07:56.640 | them, glean what, what is appropriate to what you do. Um, you know, I love, I'm fascinated listening
01:08:02.400 | to people who, who are passionate about what they do, whether they're successful or not just to hear
01:08:07.680 | what drives them. And a lot of times you can, you can translate that to what you do.
01:08:14.480 | Is there a favorite way you consume these stories, podcasts you like, books you like?
01:08:18.480 | Uh, for, for these days, it's actually doing my own podcast. Cause I like to invite people
01:08:22.080 | that I think are fascinating and really get into their story. Um, I like we interviewed, uh, this
01:08:28.720 | girl who's a, she's the most decorated Paralympian now. Her name's Oksana Masters. Um, who, who grew
01:08:36.000 | up in a Ukrainian orphanage, um, after Chernobyl and who was disfigured from Chernobyl, um, who
01:08:42.880 | came to the U S she got adopted. And her story is incredible and so inspiring. I already knew a
01:08:49.600 | little bit of it, but to invite her on our pack podcast and hear all of it was fascinating.
01:08:54.400 | I have not listened to that. So that's my homework for the flight home today.
01:08:57.840 | Uh, thank you so much for being here or for having me here.
01:09:00.880 | Oh yeah. Thanks for, Hey, this is, this is my home away from home.