I'd say I started making pretty good money around 16, 17. And it was like, "Oh, this is awesome. I'm going to take all my friends to Hawaii. I'm going to Sharper Image and buying all the gear." And at some point, my dad gave me the best advice. He said, "I really think you should put some of that money away." I was like, "Why?" I said, "It's just going to keep raining down on me." And he said, "Well, you just don't know if this is going to last." Because he really wanted me to go to college.

He was like, "If you're going to do this, you should really save from what you're making here." And so when I was 17, he co-signed a mortgage for a home. I bought a home when I was 17. It was my money, but he co-signed it just because I was not 18.

And because you might not have had the income to qualify for a mortgage. No, I did. I had the income to qualify, but I literally was not old enough to sign the paperwork by myself. Hello, and welcome to another episode of All The Hacks, a show about upgrading your life, money, and travel.

I'm your host, Chris Hutchins. And as you can probably see, I have a few skateboards hanging on the wall behind me. It's not just because they look cool. I have loved skateboarding since it was a daily habit of mine as a kid, and I still skate a bit today.

Well, you probably can't see, but one of those skateboards, this one, is actually signed by Tony Hawk, who I looked up to for so many years when I was skating, which is why it is surreal that I'm sitting down with Tony today for this episode. He's one of the most decorated athletes in the world.

He turned pro at 14, and by 16, he was considered the best competitive skateboarder on earth. He was a world champion for 12 years in a row. He launched a video game franchise with 30 million games sold. He also runs a skate brand, a nonprofit clothing brand, and has made hundreds of appearances on movies, magazines, and TV shows.

We're going to talk about his career, how he pushed himself to achieve things that so many people thought were impossible. We're talking about what lessons we can take away from his career in skateboarding, what he's learned being a parent to four kids, and some of his favorite travel hacks.

We also shot this in person at his studio, which has an awesome three-camera setup, so I hope you enjoy. And since I'm still getting this YouTube channel going, please do me a favor and click the thumbs up and subscribe to the channel. All right, let's do this. Tony, welcome to the show.

Thank you. Yeah, so before we jump in, what is one thing you think most people just don't get about skateboarding or skateboard culture? Um, the amount of discipline it takes. I think that there's still a stigma that skaters, especially people who make their living from skateboarding or from riding their skateboards, are slackers, are stoners.

They just get up late, they do what they want, they go trespassing, they go skate. And to get to a certain level of skating, to get to some of the more difficult maneuvers, it takes years of discipline and perseverance, pain. And I think that that's lost in the noise of these guys are, they're rebels, they got crazy hairdos, you know, they go against the grain.

It's like those things are also true in a lot of ways, but they do that out of, it's more out of function of where they came from, because especially in the early 90s, mid 90s, there were no places to skate. And you had to break into places, you know, you had to hop fences and go to schoolyards or go to, go to plazas to, to find any type of terrain.

And then skaters got labeled as, as outcasts and outlaws through that. Yeah. I remember flipping over like Shays lounges at the pool and trying to grind the, the like rails on there. Like there was, there was nothing to do back then. Um, I know you have a lot of discipline, right?

You talk about how important it was going back to the early days. Was there anything about your upbringing that kind of drove that competition and determination? I was just always very determined. That's my, that was my, my mom's best explanation for it because people would say I was a terror and I was a nightmare and I was relentless.

And she's like, he's just very determined. And that was her nice way of, of summarizing my behavior. But I think that I wanted to figure things out and, and I was going to do it at all costs. Like I wanted to, I mean, I play baseball and basketball, but I didn't thrive and only because of my size, you know, I was committed to it and I was, I was doing the work and I was trying to get in the mix, but I just, I didn't have the, the strength or the, or the height to really make a difference.

Um, cause I was really small for my age. And then when I found skating, I still had the same disadvantage, but there was something about it that was much more creative that I enjoyed. It wasn't, it wasn't a team sport. I didn't have to, I didn't have to listen to a coach or, or rely on the team.

And, and there was something about that that spoke to me, but also just the, the, the whole culture and how people's attitudes was, was very do it yourself and they were proactive and I loved it. I know you said it's not a team sport, but there were a lot of other people involved.

There were a lot of other skaters. It wasn't, it wasn't that, that it was so individualistic that it was like, I'm just on my own mission. I love the community of it. I love that you could go to the skate park and be trying to learn something. And suddenly people rally around you because they just want to see you succeed.

And then you have the support. And like, in that sense, you have a team, but you're not, you're, you're not relying on each other for the, for the, the, I don't know, coordination or anything like that. You know, it was very much like, like, you could do it. You got it.

All right. And then, and then someone else is trying something else and then you, you get behind that. And, and I, and I think that spoke to me a lot too, because I was, you know, I was, I was really small for my age. I didn't feel like I fit in anywhere.

I was, I was bullied a lot, mostly because of my size, but also just because I was, you know, not, I was not the cool kid. And then when I found skateboarding, there were a bunch of people like me all trying to find their way and, and they, they all connected through skateboarding.

Yeah. I, I look back to my childhood and I remember like those days I was not the cool kid. I was like the computer nerd and skateboard nerd. And you know, you found our tribe, if you will. Yeah. I didn't have, I think the determination you did. I remember all I wanted was to skate at like an amazing level and it just never clicked for me.

I found determination other places later in life, but it was so hard. You, I've seen, you know, documented, fortunately, a lot of your experiences in life are documented against all odds, against all pain. You know, I, I remember watching the X games in, in 99, where you're trying to do your 900 is, you know, 12 times in a row, falling, falling, even this year, trying to kick flip for five, 10 minutes after surgery.

Like, what do you think allows you to go and just keep going? Because I remember sitting in the garage, trying to kick flip for hours. And then I just, I just gave up at some point and I just couldn't keep going. I think firstly, that I have convinced myself that whatever it is I'm trying is possible.

And so I just have to figure out the right approach to make it so. And that, that comes in a lot of forms. But, but I do feel like, especially if I go to try a new trick, it's like, I have every element of this trick. I know how to spin.

I know how to flip my board. I, I have landed in similar fashions. So it's like, how do I combine all those elements to make this one thing work? And I think I, I rely on that so much that I'll, I'm willing to push through pain and exhaustion to get there.

It doesn't always work. I mean, like when you talk about, you know, you saw the 900 was 12 tries. Those 12 tries are representative of thousands of tries. I tried that trick for 10 years. So 12 tries was nothing. You know what I mean? There was a 12 I got to witness.

No, but I'm saying, but, but you, but, but I understand that if people saw that from the outside, they're like, Oh, he won't give up. And I was like, yeah, you have no idea how deep that not give up goes, especially for that particular move. Um, I would try dozens of tries in one session only to walk away with a broken rib.

So heal up and come back and do it again, heal up and come back and try again. Actually after the broken rib that put me on pause that, that one, I had actually stepped away from that trick after getting hurt like that. Um, and at some point thought I've given it everything I have, I've fully committed to it and that's what happens.

So maybe it's not in the cards at the time. Did you think I'm quitting on this endeavor or I did? Yeah, actually after, after I broke my rib, I was like, I, I had every element, I had every piece of it. I had the landing, I had everything. And so if it didn't work, it's never going to work.

But in that one instance at the X games, the reason I even tried it was because it was the best trick event. I had a trick in mind for what I wanted to do that I had made once before. And so I thought I'm just going to try it.

That's my best trick. I'm going to try to get to that trick. And I got to it very early. So I didn't really have anything else planned. And so the announcer actually at the time, the announcer that was on site said, Oh, let's see one of those 900 attempts.

That's what, that's what started it. Was that part of your being was being encouraged by others or was it internal motivation? No, I mean, I, I think that I probably would have tried it anyway. Cause it's like, yeah, that, that would be my next trick that I'd like to accomplish would be the next best trick for sure.

Um, and so I tried it more to appease the crowd, like, Oh, this is what, this is what it looks like. And then somewhere around the third or fourth try, my, my speed was consistent. My spin was consistent. I started spotting the landing. And in previous attempts, I only ever spotted the landing, maybe one out of five tries because the ramps were all pretty terrible back then.

You couldn't, you couldn't rely on the speed or they weren't, they weren't, um, uh, the walls weren't the same. So you're always kind of struggling to adjust. And that ramp was built really well. So I didn't have to struggle with the, with the construction. It was more like I could rely on the speed and the, the trueness of it.

So, so after about my fourth, third or fourth try that I'm, I can see it. I see it every time I might as well try to make it again. And when I did try to make it the first time, when I tried to put it on the wall, I fell forward, but I didn't fall forward so hard that I got hurt again.

And that was the key because it was like, Oh, maybe I can adjust, I can adjust the landing and I can try to get more in my back foot. And then I, I turned, I made, I basically shifted my weight mid spin so that when my landed, I was more on the back foot and I was too far on the back foot.

And then I shot at backwards. We call that shooting out. Um, so the first one, I was too top heavy. I fell forward the second one, the ones I tried to make. And then that next one I shot out. And it was like, that, that was the magic moment because it was like, well, split the difference and that's it.

And then that's when it worked. Wow. So, so it sounds like you, you've gotten close to giving up, but are there things that someone listening, let's say someone listening is hearing this story. They're like, this guy's not afraid of anything. Are there other, other sports, other things in life that you're, that you have fear from?

Oh, for sure. I like, I surf and I don't like big surf. I don't, people say, you know, you ride these giant ramps. Yeah. But if I fall, the giant ramp doesn't crash on top of me and hold me underwater. You know what I mean? That's I, I, I just never, my brother was, he is a surfer.

Um, and that's how I got into skateboarding, my older brother. And, um, but when I would go surf with him and he wanted, like, he's, he has plenty of experience. He'd go out to pretty heavy stuff. And it's just like, I don't that I like riding a big wave, but I don't, I don't want to suffer the consequences of falling on one.

I mean, having my first experience surfing was a friend of mine took me and he was like, let's just try these on a short board. I had no idea what I was doing. Yeah. Not, not a great first experience on a short board. Uh, and then the next one was like Hawaii long board, super chill.

I was like, Oh, I could get back into this. Well, I'll tell you, I have since I have surfed through my years because my brother wouldn't allow me to exist without at least a foot, a foot or a toe in the water, so to speak. But I, um, have, I have fallen in love with the wave machines, the wave pools, because they are consistent.

Um, they're not too scary. Um, and they are like skate parks because when you go surfing out in the wild, you never really know what you're going to get, right? You get waves and sometimes they're good. Sometimes they're not good. Um, you've got to figure out kind of how to navigate nature and where the swell is going to hit.

Those things are, the waves are always good. They're, they're always going to barrel. And so in that sense, you have what, what I consider a skate park to try to learn tricks and try to learn techniques. So yeah, I get it. It's not like, it's not the purest thing.

It's not, you're not out in nature, but, um, but for me, it's just a controlled environment and it very much feels like skateboarding. Yeah. I've been waiting for a time where I'm near one of these wave parks because I don't think there's one near, near San Francisco, at least close enough.

Uh, Lamore Fresno. Okay. Not go out for a few hours and then come back. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Um, so you've got this crazy determination with skateboarding. Did you ever figure out or, or do you know the secret to applying that to something else? I think for my personal life, there are things where I'm like, I'm wildly obsessed with optimizing travel.

And, but that doesn't mean that I can take that same thing and apply it necessarily to go learn a kickflip though. You've somewhat inspired me to do that as soon as I get home today. I think I learned the value of, of patience and perseverance and that I've, I've transcended to being a parent, to being a business owner, to, to travel, to, you know, pretty much everything.

I learned all that through skating. And is there a way that you applied that? I, you know, it's, it's not always natural for someone who's, I could do this as hard. I could try everything and then they get to work and they're like, Oh, it's hard. Like, how do you rewire your brain to say, Oh, well, I know how to do this with skateboarding.

Um, I think this is more of that. Yeah. And also, also trying to, uh, trying to reach back to remembering, well, how, how was I able to figure this out? And I, I don't know a good example. I think that with parenting, especially it's so easy to get frustrated and give up.

It really is like, you know, I, I get it. It's hard, man. When, especially when your kids are relentless and they're difficult and you want to just be like, you know, you, you want to just yell and you can't, that's not effective. And so you've got to figure out how to sort of change your approach and to see what is effective.

And that is really hard. And so, but I learned that through skating and I learned, and I've had plenty of kids, so I've had time to figure it out even more so. Um, but I think that it's, it's just more that I, and I learned the value of persistence and determination and you do see the results eventually, but they're not, it's, it's not some, it's not some wow moment always.

Yeah. You know what I mean? You've got to sort of see, you, you, you take your wins, your small wins as long the way. I'm early on the parenting journey with one at two and six months, but I've seen some small wins and it's like, Oh yeah. And those, and those, um, they're exponentially get better.

Yeah. And you can see that, Oh, well I planted the seed. I'll tell you what I did with all my kids early on. And it was hard. Cause I was, you know, very much in the early days, kind of a single parent. Um, I just travel with them in a way.

It wasn't a question of like, Oh, I gotta go. I'm going to have to find care. It was, we're going. And in the beginning that was super hard, especially when they're, when they're toddlers and you know, they, they don't have patients. We didn't have iPhones or anything like that.

So it was more like, all right, we're like, I remember I took my son, my oldest son. I took him to Japan when he was four, because I had the opportunity to do some skate demos. No one was paying me to skate demos at the time I was struggling to pay bills.

And it was like this, this, uh, brand in Osaka said, Oh, we want you to come to our skate shop and do two skate exhibitions a day in the skate shop. So they built these little, these little ramps in their skate shop, like moved all their inventory. And, um, and I brought him along and yeah, it was challenging, but, but, but it made him appreciate different cultures and travel and things like that later on.

And it wasn't even a, like nowadays he's 30 now, um, he's adventurous. Um, he understands and, and is, I hate using the word tolerant, but, but he is embraces other cultures and other ways of life. You know what I mean? It's, it's, it's not like everything's so, Oh, it's weird.

It's crazy. This food or the way they do things. He's, he's down for it. Yeah. I think in the moment, we just took a trip with two kids, two, two and two and six months. And it's brutal. But you, you think, why are we doing this? And you got to constantly remind yourself, well, there's a reason we're doing this.

We're doing this. I think in those, in those years, it's super hard because it's like, they're not going to remember any of this, but it does set a precedent and it sets a way of, of functioning with your family that they get used to. And you'll see other kids try to do that.

Like eventually they're going to want to bring friends along. The friends are like, what? I don't, I can't, where do we go? What do we do? And you'll, your kids will be dialed in. Yeah. Even adapting ourselves, getting comfortable with, okay, well, traveling in London with two kids is very different from two single adults.

And so like, we're trying to get comfortable with that, which was hard. And I think it, it worked really well. I know you've said, you know, skateboarding is a title, but your favorite title is parenting or dad. Um, is there anything else you were trying to teach your kids that to give them that determination?

Do they have it? Did they see it from you? I think they see it from me by example, but, but I do feel like there is a bit also nature over nurture where I see them and they're all different. And a couple of them have that relentless determination and they're going to see it through against all odds, against all injury.

Um, uh, one of them was actually kind of so, so determined and so fearless that I worried for him when he was young. I used to say I was my son Keegan, but I used to say like, you don't go, you don't babysit Keegan. You go on death watch.

You're just trying to keep him from, from hurting himself because he doesn't understand the consequences of all the stuff that he's trying to do. Um, so they're all, they're all very different, but, but I do see that they do have that same sense of commitment. And was that a conscious thing or do you think it was just by watching you have it yourself?

Well, I, that's what I said. I think, I think the, the, each of them are different, but they all do see them see their challenges through. Some are just a little more daring with their challenges. And I can't say they got that from me. I mean, maybe they, they saw that I would, I would pose a challenge and then I would see it through for sure.

But like I said, they, you know, there was one, like some, my kids were really, really good skaters, really solid, um, had the foundational skills, but didn't really want to push their limits too hard or put themselves in danger. And then other ones, one especially was not great at skating early on, didn't want to put in the hard work to get the foundational skills, but would try anything and get hurt.

Didn't care. And were you there pushing or supporting, or what was your kind of role to help them kind of grow and evolve? It's, it's hard with my position because of course I'm, I'm qualified to give them advice, but because I'm dad, they don't want to hear it. And I actually have seen it happen time and time again, where I'll, I'll tell them to try something or to do it a different way.

They don't take my advice because they're determined to do it their way. One of their friends is like, Oh, you should put your foot over here more. And they do it and it works. Like, that's what I told you. I feel like the same applies with spouses as well.

Maybe a little bit. Um, but, but, uh, but they do it. And honestly, it's, it's fun too, cause they all skate. And, um, so when we go travel and they're all adults now, my, all of our boys, uh, two are still in college, um, three are on their own.

And then my daughter's the only one still at home. She's 14. So whenever we travel, um, you know, they're, they're very self-sufficient, but the, what they want to do when we go places to go to the skate parks. And at some point he was like, you guys, can I get a break from skating maybe?

So I ended up going with them as their filmer. That's my role. And we travel together. We actually talk a lot about travel on the show. I'm imagining you've been to, I don't know, countless countries. I don't, I don't know if you even keep track. Is there a favorite?

Is there, are there places that you love going and going back to that, you know, aside from just the skating, there might inspire people listening to. I, I, Iceland is amazing because it's, the landscape is so diverse. I can't explain it, but you, like, you go there as soon as you leave the airport, it looks like you're on the moon.

And there's just all of these, all of this, um, moss covering these rocks and there's the blue lagoon. And, and then as you drive South, it completely changes into like, uh, almost like a farm setting. And then, and then it changes again, like another half hour into the drive.

And, and, um, yeah, I mean, it can get really cold there, but it's really, it's an amazing place. Um, and so my wife and I went there a long time ago, almost, almost 15 years ago now, and it felt very untapped. Definitely wasn't a tourist destination. And now it feels much more like there is tourism, but if you just drive out of the city, you can see some amazing sites.

My general rule is if you go, not when everyone else goes and leave a little bit outside, you can have a very different experience. Yeah, we're not afraid to, to go way off the beaten path, um, which we do a lot. Uh, other than that, Japan is just so, so surreal.

It feels like a video game. I, we just did an episode on Japan and we, the episode was like three, we were like three hours in and we covered Tokyo and Kyoto, like with, and Japan couldn't even get kind of close to comprehending the entire country. And the guy I was talking to had been there 20 times or something.

And like, he's just still like every, everywhere I go, I see something new. So every time. Yeah. And, and we, we brought our kids when they were all, I brought all of them when they were pretty young, but we brought them all when they were, you know, just before they were teenagers and they were all mesmerized.

Like it was fascinating. Even, even the, the, even Disneyland is, you know, it's still the magic kingdom, but it's very different. Japan's one of the coolest places. Uh, early on, you traveled a lot as a skater before you'd hit the kind of success you've had now. I gotta ask a question.

I know everyone is thinking because multiple people said I should ask, uh, were you racking up all these miles? Cause I know you weren't, you weren't making a lot, uh, in the early days, uh, especially in that kind of mid part of your career. What was that like? You know, you were tall, you started getting tall, uncomfortable.

We're using points where you're trying to get status upgrades. I, I honestly, I didn't, I didn't fly first class until I was in my thirties. Were you optimizing things when you traveled thinking, okay, I'm gonna rack up a bunch of miles. Um, yeah, but also just, I just learned how to travel more efficiently and, and a little bit lighter and, um, and how to navigate airports and lines and, and, you know, where the best security checkpoint is instead of the one where everyone's just being fed into just stuff like that.

Um, I guess I learned how to, how to be a better traveler in those days, but I'd learned the value of, of frequent flyer miles through those years when, when, especially when, um, when I wasn't making very much money, but I had, did have still have to travel to go do stuff.

Um, I collected a lot of miles. Yeah. I mean, I was a million miler on United very early on. Yeah. You know what they sent me for that luggage? That was going to be my guest. Like, it's not a very rewarding, rewarding experience. So here you go. 10 bucks.

Yeah. Um, what would, what would some of the things, if you were telling your favorite travel hacks to how you make your life efficient when you travel, whether it's, you know, a secret neck pillow or some crazy, you know, I mask. Um, well, let's see. I just, I just flew home from New York and it was last minute.

And so I'm in the bulkhead. Um, I do, I do like, I don't know. It's not, it's not some great hack, but if you want to travel with your laptop or anything else, cause you know, you have to put your backpack up in the overhead. We're getting into the weeds here.

But if you're in the, if you're in the bulkhead, take your laptop out and put it right under your feet so that half of it's kind of under your, your own seat. And then the other half, you just kind of lightly put your heels on it. It'll hide it from the flight attendants.

And then you have your laptop, you don't have to go up and get it, which is like laptop sleeves. I like to get like a black one. Cause then it just blends in everywhere. Yeah. I'm pretty good at just hiding it all together. Um, and then usually like I'll have a little bag.

It's actually my toiletry kit. And then I just stuff like my headphones and my, uh, iPhone cable, you know, everything you need, everything I need, but just put that and then put that on the side of the seat. So then I'll see that either. That's my bulkhead hack for you.

Um, but as far as other travel, I think I learned also just to, you know, I I'm, it's not like I carry some big wardrobe or anything, but I do try to keep it down to a carry on in a backpack. If I can't at all costs, cause I don't want to check bags.

I can't, I'll tell you that the biggest travel hacks for skateboards and, you know, people, people will travel with skateboards, but you can travel with the skateboard and put it in the overhead anywhere in the U S if you're, if you're making a connection, say in Frankfurt or London, um, or, uh, even Tokyo, you, is it Tokyo?

Yeah. You can't carry your skateboard on the plane through those airports. So I have been told, uh, I've, I've been told a couple of times I've actually gotten away with it once, but, um, and I learned, learned the hard way, like going through London, you're in the terminal, you're connecting, right.

But you know how they have to, you have to go through another, um, uh, security checkpoint. You can't bring your skateboard. So you have to go outside the airport on a connecting flight and check it in. And probably miss your flight. Maybe. Oh yeah. Yeah. No, I've actually thrown a skateboard away because of that.

Yeah. In London, they said, Oh, you got to check it out. I don't have time. They go, well, I don't know what to tell you. And then I, I put it in the trash can at the security checkpoint. Okay. I think it's a safety risk. I think it's a weapon or I assume.

Yeah. I mean, also Mexico too, surprisingly, you can't carry a skateboard on the airplane in Mexico. So every time we travel with the kids, Mexico, we've got to put them all in plastic bags. So we're just this, we're a disaster coming back cause we're just a bunch of luggage.

Um, so yeah, that's my, that's my advice. I don't know if it's a hack, it's just my advice. Like if you're going to travel through Europe, don't carry your skateboard onto the plane that is connecting. That could probably apply to other items. There are some, I can't remember, not that it's the end of the world to replace things like nail scissors, but there's some nail clippers.

There's some country where you can't bring nail clippers on your plane. Cause I remember, or if it has that like slide out file and I've definitely gotten dinged on that. So I would say if the hack is to look up, what are the security requirements for the country you're transiting through?

Uh, or, you know, I try at all costs to fly direct just to avoid these problems when possible. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, yeah, there used to be, I live in San Diego, but I live in North County and you used to be able to fly from Carlsbad airport to LAX.

And so basically you could go anywhere from LAX. Right. So that was always like the best way to do it. But, um, many times our Carlsbad flight would be canceled and we just have to drive, you know, literally drive to Carlsbad airport, like a couple of flights canceled. Just keep going North to LAX.

Um, but, uh, yeah, it's funny with the, with the skateboard thing. I remember, so my wife and I usually carry our skateboards when we go places. Cause we like to, we like to skate around cities, you know, just as transportation, um, if we're going by ourselves and we're coming back from, oh man, I can't remember where somewhere.

Um, and I think we were coming back from Brazil maybe. And we were coming through the, um, where you hand them your customs form. And the guy, I'll never forget this. He grabbed my customs form and he saw my skateboard in his peripheral. And immediately it was like, go that way to secondary.

Cause he saw my skateboard. It was so obvious the way that his, you know what I mean? Like I just saw his wheelchair and like, oh, he's a problem. He's a skateboarder. And he looked up and he saw my face and he recognized it, but he'd already handed me this red card to go to secondary.

And he goes, oh, oh, you know what? Just tell them you're in a hurry. I said, oh, is that going to work for me? You're sending me to secondary where they're going to go through all my stuff. And I'm going to tell him I'm in a hurry. That's probably not the best approach.

And then my wife and I got into secondary. They wouldn't let us go to the bathroom. They wouldn't, you know, we were like, we were very much, um, uh, being interrogated. Yeah. I mean, you've, you've told lots of stories. I'll, I'll encourage anyone here to go check out the internet for all the stories of you getting recognized as other people.

Uh, is there a good one? You don't care. Yeah. Um, yeah, I, I, it still happens all the time. And it's weird now because obviously, as you would know that, that, that meme kind of took off, um, or not the meme, but just me telling my story, like all the stories that tell it are absolutely true.

100%. Um, but it started happening. So it would happen pretty frequently and I was sharing it. And at some point people thought I was making it up. So I kind of stopped sharing these incidents because people were just like, come on, like, really? But now it's gotten to the point where it's like this, this vicious cycle where people now want to say it, even though they know who I am all the time.

So I would say that happens probably three times a day. That, that interaction, like anyone ever tell you, you look like Tony Hawk. Yup. And you're the first today. Um, but then, but then it happens genuinely at least once or twice too. And the, when it happens genuinely, if people were following me around, they wouldn't believe it.

Cause you know what I mean? Like they just, they hear about it and it's just like, all right, like enough with this non, you know, this, this whole, um, I don't even know what you call it. Mistaken identity thing. Yeah. But the, so yes, it still happens. It happens as a joke.

It happens for real. The, the, I think my favorite one as of late was that I was sitting at a gate and this guy was sitting across from me at the gate. Um, and he, he looked, he came over, he's a man, you know, you look just like Tony Hawk.

He said, oh yeah, I know. I've heard that. He's like, it's crazy. And then he went and sat back down and then a group of people came who did recognize me for real and wanted autographs and pictures. And the whole time he's watching me laughing because he's in on the joke that it's not really me.

Do you know what I mean? Like he and I are sharing this inside joke somehow that these people are crazy and they're mistaken, but he just thought it was hilarious. Did you ever tell him at the end? Or did he ever? No, I don't. I, I just, it's up to them to, you know what I mean?

To either decide that or to ask me, it drives my daughter crazy because a lot of times people will say it until you look like Tony Hawk. I'm like, yeah, they, yeah. And it's, that's cool. And they walk away and my daughter's like, why didn't you tell him? I go, he didn't ask.

So if someone asks, you'll say, yeah, of course. Yeah. All right. Well, I hope whoever was sitting across from you at the airport is listening and they can finally come to terms with the fact that that was way more fun in his mind, making fun of people. Yeah. Like that was, that was his thing.

So I just let him run with it. So to round out travel, you know, I'm sure you buy lots of things. Do you, do you play the points game? Do you try to rack up points or cash back on credit cards to travel for free still? Yes. I, I try to, well, I try to focus in on, you know, one or two airlines or their partners so that I rack up the most points on, on them which is for the most part United and Delta.

But also all my credit card purchases go towards miles. And so I use those for my team. So for instance, we have the skater Felipe Nunez from Brazil. You might've seen him. He's a double amputee and he skates with he skates like kind of sitting on his board, but he's amazing.

It's crazy. I'll find a link to it and put it in the show notes. Like truly deserves to be a pro skater. Like he is incredible and has only gotten better, but it's tricky because he lives in a really small town, a couple hours from Sao Paulo. So in Curitiba, so for me to get him flights is always really tricky and challenging, but I do it using my visa points and I can get him his flights all the time.

So anybody, he has to travel with kind of a handler and it's a whole thing. But that's, and I use that for his flights. I use him for my other skaters flights if they need to get somewhere for a skate trip or whatever. And, and it's been, it's been awesome.

Yeah. I'm, I'm always, everyone's always surprised that it seems like no matter how successful you are, no matter how famous or rich or whatever you are, everyone still wants to make sure that when they're spending money on their card, they're getting like the most they can out of their rewards.

Yeah. And I, and also, I mean, just with, with me, sometimes other groups, uh, do my travel. If I'm going to an event, I do a lot of speaking gigs, um, corporate gigs and whatnot and conferences. And so sometimes it's up to them to do the travel and they don't plug in my, my advantage number or my, you know, my mileage plus number or whatever.

And it's, it's such a hassle. Like it's, it's, it all seems so frivolous, but it's important because it's like, you get in it, you can go to a different line, you know what I mean? For security or whatever it is. And, and there's just some efficiency to it. And when you travel as much as I do, those things count for a lot.

Yeah. I know someone who's like, they're part of their rider for speaking is like, I will book my flights and you will reimburse me because I just don't usually what we do, but, but every once in a while it slips through the cracks. Yeah. Uh, well, if anyone's listening, if you ever take a flight and you didn't put your number in, you can actually retroactively ask for credit.

So if you're ever forget, yes, uh, the airlines do allow you to do that. It's better to do it at a ticket counter though. Yes. They can do it fast. They can do it immediately. That's the other thing is, is people like they wield such great power at the ticket counters.

They could literally just put you on a flight to London first class without blinking an eye. If, if they wanted to. It always amazes me when someone's flight, something happened and they're yelling at this person. And I'm like, you realize the person that holds the keys to whatever your situation will be is that person who is not responsible for your delay or for your seat mix up.

I think just being nice to the person at the desk and can pay dividends on. So absolutely. Yeah, no, I agreed. Yeah. I I've never scored this kind of mythical. We're just going to upgrade you for no reason kind of thing. Obviously if you have status, you can get it right.

But, um, but everything else like, Oh, my flight's gone. They could decide, do I want to put you on that easy connection or you want to do, I want to just give you a coupon and you can get a hotel and come back tomorrow. And, uh, playing that game is, has been very helpful.

And if that line's too long, I always try to call and see if I can get someone faster than a long line. Like when a flight's canceled and there's a hundred people lined up. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I can, I, so I have all the apps, you know, the flight track, like that will sometimes alert me to a problem by flight before the airline does.

So I'm, I'm always kind of ahead of the curve with that where it's like, Oh, this thing's getting canceled. I'm going to go figure this out before everyone else at the gate knows that's what's happening. And you're like telling them, you're like the flight's canceled. She's like, what, what?

Oh yes, it is. Yeah. Yeah. You're telling them. Um, so one other area that we haven't talked a lot about is around kind of health and fitness and, you know, people like Laird Hamilton go nuts about everything they do with their regime for exercise, sauna, all this stuff, skateboarding.

I think some people, especially when I was a kid, like didn't even see it as a physical sport. I can, I can assure you, I'm sure you can assure everyone that it is. How much was kind of diet exercise training outside of skating important or, or how has that evolved as you've gotten older?

I think in the early days it, I didn't, I didn't recognize the importance of, of my diet and training and whatnot, but I was so obsessed with skating that that was all my exercise. And that was enough because I was skating three to four hours a day, every day, um, giving it a mile.

So I think that over time I, and also just seeing my peers, I saw a lot of them not take care of themselves, drinking too much, partying and, and really kind of losing their skillsets. And so skating was always such a paramount importance to me that I was never going to let that happen.

And I saw it by example, like, Oh man, he's not skating good. Oh, that's because he won't stop partying. And so for me, that was sort of the first lesson was, was not, not completely, but, but clean living for the most part. But as I grew older, then I realized the importance of, of diet and of trying to stay active when I can't skate.

And now, especially at my age and with my, my current recovery, um, I I've learned that I got to stay active. Even if I can't skate, I got to, and I need to do so much stuff to help. I I'm recovering from a broken femur from last year. I need to do so many things to help that healing.

Um, and it, it, it was at one point it was because it was a full-time job and I had to kind of back off from it. Cause I was like, maybe I just need to wait, just give it time instead of trying to do all these other things like hyperbaric chamber and laser treatment and acupuncture and peptides.

And, and I was going all the way in with all those treatments. Um, and, and at some point it didn't, I actually went the wrong way with my recovery, but only because I, I couldn't stop skating. So my bone never connected to itself. It never actually became one bone again.

So I had it reset, um, two months ago. And are there things that you think that you've experimented with, whether it's diet or, you know, different kinds of treatment that you think you'll keep in a routine or that are lasting or things like breathwork or yoga or any of those things that are part of your routine?

I think, uh, swimming helped me with my strength a lot when I wasn't skating. So I'm, I'm going to lean into that more, um, going forward, including with my skating. Um, and, and just trying to, you know, it was more like, um, not eating to excess and not indulging in sweets and sodas and stuff like that.

Um, I, I still, I still carry a lot of my habits from, from as a kid, then I still enjoy, you know, not the healthiest of foods, but I don't go all in on just fast food and just the, you know, more, um, stuff that's going to slow me down and, and try to make a concerted effort to take supplements, to eat greens, um, you know, less processed foods, stuff like that.

What kind of supplements? Well, I take, uh, quite a few, but, but most importantly, I have to take a stat now because I have high cholesterol because of my family history. So I take, um, QNAL CoQ10. Um, I actually, it was funny because they were looking for, they reached out to me about possibly doing an endorsement.

Like, do you know what this is? You know, I take it. I literally take it every day. Wow. And so, uh, I was kind of the perfect one for their campaign. You know what I mean? So it's stuff like that, but multivitamins too. Okay. And a bevy of other ones just trying to keep my, um, you know, all my, my levels balanced.

What about the morning routine? Are you early, early up and early after it? Yeah. Well, we still have a, we still have one at home. Um, usually I got to make sure my daughter is up and getting ready by 7:00 AM. So I'm usually up by six 30. I mean, that's not crazy early, but sometimes it's six.

Um, and that's kind of my time to, uh, try to go through my communications emails and, and whatnot. Um, because as the day starts and as like she goes to school, I come here, this is my office. This is my ramp is, um, things get crazy through the day.

And so it's hard to stay on top of communication. Yeah. I heard you say in a podcast almost five years ago that your kryptonite was time. I'm curious. I'm curious if in the last few years, you've made any changes, whether it's to time management or anything that's made you more productive.

Uh, yeah, I've learned to say no. I mean, it's hard, especially when things are, things are growing and things are successful and people are, are asking for your time and, and, and for whatever, for, for you to attend events or for you to do interviews and things like that.

And at some point I thought, I don't need to do these things. And I don't think that they are necessarily beneficial. I don't know, you know, that they just don't seem like they should be so obligatory. Um, I'm honored that people want to talk to me and that people want me to do stuff.

But at some point I needed for my own sanity, for my own, and also for my own family dynamic to just be available to them and not be on the, on the move all the time or just home on my phone. That's, I think that's one thing that people don't necessarily recognize is that just because you are home, if your attention is elsewhere, you're not really home.

Yeah. I think it's something that when you have young kids, you start to realize, wow, like the number of times I'm just a little bit distracted, uh, because they run off and you're like, whoa, I was distracted. They're no longer trying to show you something. And you're like, uh-huh.

Yep. Yep. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And you think that that's good enough, but they, they see that, you know, and, and, and they, that, that can be effect that can affect them. Yeah. I think in some ways it might've been much easier to be a parent before all of the distraction that we have.

Yeah. In other ways, I think it was way harder. Yeah. So I, I, I was very young. I was 24 when my, when my first son was born and, um, that was, you know, there were no DVRs. We were still using VHS and he would wake up super early.

And sometimes before Sesame street was on the air, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, what do we get? Let's read a book or do something. Um, so yeah, it's, uh, you know, you, you learn and you learn to, you learn to entertain the old fashioned way, storytelling. It's like, uh, that I find this on flights now.

It's like, you're on a flight, you're on Southwest. There's no TVs. There's no device. Like you're sitting there and you're like, it's amazing how kids are like, I want to run around. And you're like, well, you can't run around. I want to read a book. Okay. Five minutes in.

I don't want to read a book anymore. So, uh, I think flights in that kind of toddler age are really tough. Um, one thing I will, I'll tell you a hack for toddlers, since you do have young ones and this is going to be weird, but it worked for me a couple of times.

My son was prone to, um, being carsick sometimes, um, and, and on planes too. Um, and so sometimes we would be walking through a terminal or something, and then he would just barf. And I learned that, um, it's very easy to remove your shoe, remove one sock, use that as a rag and just throw the sock away and deal with just wearing one sock the rest of your trip or your day to, to save from having to try to go some massive cleanup effort.

The sock burp cloth. What's that? The sock burp cloth. Sock burp cloth. Yeah. Yeah. I've done, I've done it a few times. The last thing we didn't really talk on was around money. So early on in your career, you were making six figures in high school. So I'm, I'm trying to comprehend that, you know, most people in high school are making maybe a couple bucks on a side gig.

What was money? What was the relationship with money like back then? Well, it was all a big surprise. Cause it wasn't like, it wasn't like you got into skateboarding to be rich or famous. No one had become rich or famous. No one made money doing it. You just did it cause you loved it.

And all of a sudden there was this fame and there was this money. And I was in my late teens. I I'd say I started making pretty good money around 16, 17. And it was like, Oh, this is awesome. I'm going to take all my friends to Hawaii. I'm going to sharper image and buying all the gear.

And, and at some point my dad gave me the best advice. He said, I really think you should put some of that money away. I was like, why? As if it's just going to keep raining down on me. And he said, well, you know, you just don't know if this is going to last.

And, and, um, cause he really wanted me to go to college. And it's like, if you're going to do this, you should really, you should really save from what you're making here. And so when I was 17, he co-signed, uh, a, a mortgage for a home that like we, I bought a home when I was 17, it was my money, but he co-signed it just cause I was not 18.

And cause you might not have had, had the income to qualify for a more, more. No, I did. I had the income to qualify, but I literally was not old enough to sign the paperwork by myself. So he co-signed on, on a house for me. So I lived in my own place as a senior in high school, as if I was in college with your parents, weren't there.

So, and then I had all the high school parties. I had one roommate that was also at the same high school. We had two older roommates that just had jobs, but were young enough to be, um, taking advantage of the situation. And so, you know, when you're in high school, whoever's friends are out of town, that's where the party is.

My, my, whoever's friends, uh, whoever's friends' parents were out of town, that's the house where the party is, right? My parents were never in town. So my house was always where the party was. And it got, it was very challenging to stay focused on school when I'm already making more than my teachers and I'm, everyone's coming over to hang out and then I'm supposed to get up early and drive to high school.

Um, but I did, I mean, I, I did mostly because of how important my parents, how much they valued education. My mom was a teacher, um, at a junior college at the time. And so I knew they'd be really disappointed if I just left. So finishing high school was like a very.

Well, yeah, it was important. Yeah. Yeah. And then did you keep saving or was the house the kind of saving grace? The house was saving grace. Yeah. I, I, um, well, I got in kind of over my head. So a few years later I bought another property. I built a bunch of big ramps on it.

It was, it was a four acre lot here, kind of East San Diego. And, um, at some point, not long after that, my income started dropping by half, by half every month because it was all royalty based. It was all based on, um, items or products with my name on it.

Skating was taking a downturn in popularity. So suddenly skating is not popular. My name's not popular. My products aren't selling and I'm stuck with two mortgages, my first child on the way. And it was like, how did I get here? This is crazy. So I sold my house for basically, um, I had taken a second, I had taken equity out of it to start a skate company, which seems like not the smartest move at a time when your income's dropping, but I wanted to stay in the industry.

And I wanted to, at that point, have more control over a brand because up to then I had been skating for the same sponsor for 10 years. And their, their popularity was waning. So was skateboarding. And I thought, well, I could probably just start a brand and be behind the scenes because it seems like now my career as a skater is starting to fall apart, but I could, I could at the very least be effective as sort of a team manager, curator, marketer.

And so I took, uh, the equity out of my house, started Birdhouse Skateboards, um, sold the house for what I owed on it, then moved back into the house I was living at as a senior in high school. And, and for probably three to four years lived off of Top Ramen, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, Taco Bell, um, and just made it work.

And those were the years when I started to have to travel to make ends meet like Japan and bring my son along. You know what I mean? That's, that's how that all unraveled. There wasn't childcare at home to help out because if you're eating Top Ramen, it's, it's tough.

And then things changed. Birdhouse took off. How did that evolve? Like now are you much more passionate or interested about money and saving and all of that? Or, or where, where's your relationship? Well, I have, I have a much more respect for, for saving money and, and for being, um, for making sure everyone's taken care of my, especially with our kids.

Um, you know, I want them to all forge their own way for sure. But at the same time, we, we want to be able to know that we have a nest egg in case something goes south. So, um, my relationship is just that I have, I have much more reverence and respect for it.

And that I also don't take every single opportunity. And I mean, that, that was a big, you know, that, that's a reason why I had so many relationships fall apart too. Cause I just kept chasing the carrot even when it was huge, even when I didn't need to at all.

I just kept going. I, it was like, it was like, I couldn't turn it off. And then at some point I realized like, what I'm losing, I'm missing, I'm missing my, my kids formative years chasing some, some dream that I've already realized. Yeah. I think at a different scale, it's something that we all face is like, you know, you have kids and you're like, I can't go to the thing.

I can't go to the thing. And I think if you pause and reflect for a moment, you're like, but it's okay. Like I miss the day, but it's so hard to process that. And, and like FOMO is definitely real. But if, if there's one thing that, you know, your kids can teach you, even when they're really young, it's like, you can miss the thing.

Like, it's okay. Oh yeah. It's okay. Yeah. And, and also if you, if you, if you really devote yourself, um, to that time with your kids, you see, you just see the, the gleam in their eye. And you see that, that, that they appreciate it. You know, they're not going to speak it to you.

Good luck getting your kids to say thank you, by the way, for anything, but, um, but they do appreciate it. And, and they, you know, and they thrive because of it. Um, but I think it was just that I had gotten so used to the hustle of, of not being successful and just going all the time, trying to, trying to create something, trying to make something happen that when it started to happen in droves, how could I let it go?

That, that seems crazy. That's impossible. Why would I not do that? Um, and at some point I lost myself in it. Is there something that you wish you'd known, or you'd wish someone had told you that could have gotten you out of that earlier? I don't, I don't think so.

I think it was all so new and fantastical to me that, that I don't think I was going to listen to a voice of reason, you know what I mean? Um, and so now you've got plenty of things that could keep you busy. What, what's the focus now? I mean, you're still skating or you will probably after you, you heal.

Yeah. Um, now I, I mean, I'm just so thankful to still be in the scene and to be able to bear witness to skateboarding's massive, um, acceptance. I don't want to say growth. I mean, it definitely has grown hugely in the last five or 10 years, but, um, just to see it come of age and to be an activity, a sport, a lifestyle that is all inclusive, that is super diverse, that is now an Olympic sport.

It's, it's something that, that, um, people like transcends boundaries, cultures, economics, you know, people that get together to skate, they don't care where you're from. They just care if you're, how you skate. Um, and it's low cost of entry. And so to see it come this far and to still be considered relevant, that's, that's the greatest joy I have.

So what am I doing? I'm, I'm doing whatever I can to still be an advocate for skating and to be able to skate myself because that's still is the most fun for me. Um, but whatever, kind of whatever comes along. I mean, and like I said, I do a lot of speaking gigs now, which I never imagined would be a way of living or a source of income.

I say it all the time because when I go to these things, it's just like, look, I never imagined anyone would pay me to skate. So I certainly never imagined that people would pay me to talk about skateboarding. Um, but here we are and it's a blast. I love it.

And you think, what's the advice to someone who's passionate about a thing that's not necessarily a revenue source for their life right now? It's what's going to bring you the most joy and it's worth it. You know, I think it's, if you go to work and your work makes you happy, that's living the dream at any level.

And, and, and if, if it's, if it's very successful financially, great, that's just sort of gravy, but it's more about your peace of mind. And, and I think that if there is something that makes you truly happy and maybe you have to do something else to supplement your income, try to balance those things as best you can.

Yeah. I've actually, I've turned my position on this in the past few years. I used to say, I'll go follow your passion, you know, find a way to make that your job. But if you have a job that allows you to follow your passion, not as a job, that's okay.

Yeah. That's, that's, that's enough. And for a lot of people, my, my brother-in-law went pro golfing and then hated it because it was his job. And then what got a job and just golfs on the weekend and loves it. And so I think for some people, even pursuing it to some extent can actually take away.

I don't know if there was ever a moment in your career where it was like skating to win competitions and to win trophies was just too much and it took away the fun. Yeah, for sure. Especially in the, in the late eighties, that was the, that I, I became a machine and it was very cyclical and it was like, all right, there's an event coming up next weekend.

I've got to learn a couple of new tricks for the event because the judges saw what I'm, you know, they, they saw my current roster of tricks. So I got to hide it from them and then unleash it in the finals. And then, but it became so formulaic that it really was not fun.

And at some point I just pulled away and stepped away from it altogether because skating had become a job and it wasn't fun for me. And then when I did pull away, I, I got very creative with my skating and I was able to really learn a lot of different techniques and a lot of stuff that I wanted to pursue, even though I wasn't making a living at it at the time.

I mean, I kind of was, I still had signature skateboards and whatnot, but when you're not in those years, if you were not competing actively, you were not going to get coverage. You were not going to get career opportunities, but I was willing to let those go to just at least be happy with it.

And so it gave me this sort of new energy to come back to competing and with a different approach that was more, it was more, I don't know how to explain it. I guess, I guess it was, it was less careful and it was more risky. That was it.

I came, I came at it with a, with a sense of, I'm going to just try everything. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I'd rather just do this and take the chances and have fun doing it. And if it works, then it's going to work awesomely. The downside to that was that when I did come back to competing, it was when skateboarding was starting to take a downturn.

So I came back with this renewed energy and I was winning a lot of big events. And all of a sudden it was like, what happened? Where's the crowd? Where's the contest? Where's the prize money? You guys like turn the machines back on. I thought this was cool. And so I, you know, it was kind of like the wrong place at the right time.

But you probably wouldn't have had the career you had after that had that not happened. No, no. Because in, in those dead years, I was skating more than ever. Um, having fun doing it, you know, learning new tricks and learning new techniques. It was just that I wasn't doing it in front of crowds because the crowds weren't there anymore.

Yeah. I think I'm very fortunate that, and I think you did the same with your podcast. Like when you start a podcast, if you can start it, not needing to be your, your job and your business, you could do whatever you want with it. You can kind of say, you know what?

This podcast was not, you know, when I started it, I never thought I'd be going over countries as episodes. And then I was like, yeah, I'm going to London. I want to talk to someone who knows everything about London. Let's make an episode about London. And then we do it on Japan.

So I think when you really start to do what you're passionate about in your work, it sometimes creates an even better experience. And people love these episodes. And I never had an idea, but. Oh yeah. No, I think, well, my, my cohost, Jason Ellis and I, we have a lot of, of, uh, we have a lot of experience, obviously skating, but just life experience.

He, he was, you know, had a totally different path than I did. And when we have guests, especially with non-skating guests, we relate to them in different ways that people would not expect, but, but in a very, in a very parallel way. Um, for instance, we had two wrestlers on, uh, that's our most recent guest and Darby Allen and Jamie Hader.

And people were like, why would you have them on? And then when we started to talk about our experiences and our injuries, we were right in line and we were bouncing off of each other. And it was a really great conversation. It was fascinating, you know, and say what you will about, about wrestling or that it's made up or whatever it is.

They are, those guys take as much abuse as skateboarders. Yeah. It was great. I listened to this episode. It was wild to kind of, I don't think I've gotten that behind the scenes look at wrestling. Uh, you know, it hasn't been a passion of mine, but it was super fascinating and you don't have to say who, but I know there's some cool guests coming down the pike.

So if anyone's listening, yeah, we have, um, we have a, an insane roster coming up and, and, uh, I feel like now we're starting to hit our stride and we've been doing it a couple of years. So you're right. It wasn't something that we needed and, but we enjoy doing it.

And we did find that we had something unique to offer. We found a groove, we found an audience. Um, it was just that we weren't doing all the, the right things with the algorithms and the, you know, the promotions. And so now we, we have a group, uh, Malka that is, um, is taking the reins on that and they've been doing a great job.

So we get to focus more on the content. Podcast is great. I enjoy it. Uh, especially, especially cause I have my, my childhood skate skate dreams still somewhere buried in my head for anyone else listening. Where else can they, where else do you want to send them to keep on top of whatever you're doing?

Oh, um, well, I'm out there on all the social media as Tony Hawk. Um, luckily, uh, I had to, I think, I think I had to buy one of someone, someone, um, squatted my name on some platform early on. Um, but yeah, so I'm Tony Hawk and all the social media and that's kind of where I put all of my content out there.

Uh, we have the Hawk versus Wolf podcast. Um, I think if anything, my, my energy also is directed towards the skate park project, which is my foundation for public skate parks in underserved areas. Um, we have been doing it over 20 years now. We've helped to fund over a thousand skate parks, um, in the U S alone.

Um, we have a couple of, um, international projects as well. And I think that's my proudest work because when I was growing up skating, the skate park was my salvation. I know I was, I was an outcast kid. I was bullied at school, but I found my tribe and my community at the skate park.

And, and I was very lucky that, that the park that I grew up skating at was one of the last ones in the U S in the mid eighties, there were only a handful. And that was never lost on me how lucky I was to have that place to go and to have that, that, um, that crew.

So when I was in a position to advocate and to possibly affect change, that's what I, that's what I focused in on was, was public skate parks. Yeah. I mean, I grew up kind of at the, the born in the early eighties and that I was in that kind of dearth of, of lack of skate parks, skate parks.

And I think my community was like the guy that lived across the street that had a skateboard. Like that was it, right. It was the two of us. And, and also that these kids that they find something they love, right. And they, they maybe live in an area where there's not much opportunity.

They find something they love and they're mostly told that they can't do it because they're trespassing. Yeah. Or they're a nuisance. They put things to prevent you from doing it. And it's like, this kid has finally found something that speaks to them. And now you're discouraging them from that.

Like, what, what are you doing to your community? Um, and so to have those parks, the kids feel like they're, they matter and that they can, they can find their, their crew. Um, and, uh, the, I think the best part about the foundations, we, we try to empower groups that are already doing it themselves or trying to do it themselves.

Like, like they're trying to fundraise or they're going to city council meetings or they're petitioning. All those things matter. And it feels like you're in an uphill battle that will never end, especially with the red tape and the bureaucracy and city councils, but we give them the roadmap to do it the right way.

And when we do give them our endorsement and possibly funding, that's usually the tipping point for them to get it approved officially. And so that, you know, for us, it's empowering the, those, those go-getters that were trying to do it in the first place. I love it. So you should all definitely check out the podcasts and the socials, but definitely check out the skate park project.

It's, uh, I wish that it was around, you know, 30 something years ago for me, it would have been awesome. But any, any parting advice for anyone who's looks at you, it says, gosh, when I'm in my fifties, I want to be doing the thing I love and, you know, performing at that level.

Um, what can I say? I, I think that the, the, my approach always has been to keep improving what I do. Um, and at my age that's shifted a bit from trying to do these big spins and these big, big stunts to more subtle techniques, but something that I feel like is progressive.

Um, and I'm talking about just in terms of physical skating, but also just my approach to life is like to not wrestle my accolades, to keep trying to improve what I do, keep evolving, listen to other, other input and, um, and glean what you can from them, glean what, what is appropriate to what you do.

Um, you know, I love, I'm fascinated listening to people who, who are passionate about what they do, whether they're successful or not just to hear what drives them. And a lot of times you can, you can translate that to what you do. Is there a favorite way you consume these stories, podcasts you like, books you like?

Uh, for, for these days, it's actually doing my own podcast. Cause I like to invite people that I think are fascinating and really get into their story. Um, I like we interviewed, uh, this girl who's a, she's the most decorated Paralympian now. Her name's Oksana Masters. Um, who, who grew up in a Ukrainian orphanage, um, after Chernobyl and who was disfigured from Chernobyl, um, who came to the U S she got adopted.

And her story is incredible and so inspiring. I already knew a little bit of it, but to invite her on our pack podcast and hear all of it was fascinating. I have not listened to that. So that's my homework for the flight home today. Uh, thank you so much for being here or for having me here.

Oh yeah. Thanks for, Hey, this is, this is my home away from home.