Dave Portnoy | The All-In Interview

00:00:00.000 | people always ask me we did not have people beating down our doors like I

00:00:03.680 | always one of the things I've heard throughout the course of Barstool you

00:00:07.560 | should be making so much money here and doing this there and deals there it's

00:00:10.680 | like I'm looking no one I don't see these mythical deals everyone's talking

00:00:15.080 | about and there was no bidding war when churning came around Dave Portnoy thanks

00:00:40.440 | for joining us yep Barstool Dave you obviously own and run a media

00:00:47.680 | business I guess best way to describe it Barstool's got media franchises spanning

00:00:53.640 | sports gambling pizza reviews and you've got a huge audience you've you've been

00:00:59.840 | through an incredible corporate history which I think one of the things we

00:01:02.680 | wanted to talk about today was talking about the business if you're up for it

00:01:06.360 | yep and talk a little bit about the history of the business super interesting

00:01:10.480 | to us when the acquisition happened with Penn and the subsequent buyback we

00:01:14.640 | thought it was a super interesting story we actually reached out and tried to

00:01:18.000 | have a conversation with you at that time about it but unfortunately missed

00:01:21.120 | you so we're really glad to have you here today we'll hope to talk about that

00:01:24.080 | hope to talk about media free speech politics I think there's a lot of stuff

00:01:27.840 | you've talked about that we often talk about that I think we'd love to just

00:01:30.800 | have a dialogue and we'll see where this goes sounds good yeah welcome to the

00:01:35.000 | all-in interview and thanks for being with us and Chamath anything you want to

00:01:38.320 | start with tell us about just getting out of New York yeah so we were saying

00:01:42.880 | before we relocate to New York in 2016 when churning bought half the company

00:01:49.520 | it was basically the concept was create a reality blog media type company turn

00:01:56.040 | the lights on see what happened let everyone see it into the company and it

00:01:59.920 | was easier to get talent we thought New York attract people to work and when

00:02:04.400 | athletes or entertainers come through they usually stop in New York and we can

00:02:08.800 | grab them into the office so that's why I moved there I don't think anybody in

00:02:12.200 | our company loved New York it was not I mean I personally think it's a dirty

00:02:15.360 | city I don't like it I just not my favorite cup of tea and then I also got

00:02:23.280 | a lot of money so once we're starting to get more money with and I guess fast

00:02:29.000 | forward me because when we did a second the pen deal I was like I'm not the

00:02:32.880 | taxes are so crazy there Florida I went during kovat because it was an open

00:02:37.640 | state that's really what initiated this whole thing is when kovat happened New

00:02:41.360 | York locked down Florida was pretty much open so I went there visited and then

00:02:46.800 | kind of stayed there longer term during kovat Black Lives Matter happened a lot

00:02:51.280 | of things are happening in New York City and like I may stay in Miami were you

00:02:56.120 | the only shareholder when churning when Peter bought 35 or whatever 40% of the

00:03:01.520 | business Peter bought 51 right at that time 51% so for employees of mine I had

00:03:07.760 | given equity like hey if something happens you have small it wasn't any I

00:03:12.080 | don't even know if it's on paper but for the most part yes I had given away 10 to

00:03:16.680 | 12% of the company to my long-term employees that was 2016 and when they

00:03:21.960 | bought when churning bought 51% was that a buyout or that money going into the

00:03:27.320 | company so they fit yeah they valued the company and I think 12 and a half

00:03:31.520 | million wildly I didn't know what I was doing they really that was too low but

00:03:36.320 | whatever that's what they valued it for I think I got about if I recall three

00:03:41.640 | and a half million went to me personally and then the rest went into the business

00:03:46.520 | account right and then you ran it you moved it to New York and you ran the

00:03:51.080 | business for a couple years and obviously things took off the the

00:03:54.080 | business grew we're turning group like active at this time like were they

00:03:59.960 | helpful or was it you building the business and they were just kind of

00:04:03.120 | quiet financial sponsors how yeah how did that face go so when they they

00:04:08.680 | purchased us they basically gave the money we did we weren't great at

00:04:14.000 | business the first thing we did we went out and hired Eric and our genius CEO so

00:04:17.680 | she really helped expand the business side of what we were doing and we

00:04:21.480 | exploded but churning to answer your question they weren't involved at all I

00:04:24.800 | think they really I mean slightly here or there if we had a question I think

00:04:28.800 | the biggest thing they did is probably credibility like I was probably seen as

00:04:32.920 | and still am at times like a wild card like you don't know what you're dealing

00:04:37.200 | with and you put the churn and name on it it's like oh these guys are legit

00:04:40.880 | they're real and maybe helped us get into meetings and doors but they weren't

00:04:45.240 | any day-to-day operations at all probably I would say the best thing they

00:04:50.340 | did is they stayed out of our way well that's that's crazy because they in like

00:04:53.640 | three and a half years almost or maybe four years you took the business from

00:04:57.600 | like twelve and a half million valuation to like this is the question I yeah the

00:05:03.040 | question is Dave when that business explodes are you are you spending like a

00:05:09.300 | few minutes every day saying god damn why did I do this deal like or did you

00:05:14.200 | think it was really still worth it you know when the company goes I never

00:05:18.640 | question it because again turn it we did people always ask me we did not have

00:05:23.120 | people beating down our doors like I always one of the things I've heard

00:05:26.920 | throughout the course of bar sold you should be making so much money here and

00:05:30.520 | doing this there and deals there it's like I'm looking no one I don't see

00:05:34.240 | these mythical deals everyone's talking about and there was no bidding war when

00:05:39.860 | churning came around so while understanding it my biggest thing I've

00:05:46.520 | never sold the company I wasn't looking to sell a company when they approached

00:05:50.240 | us they really were looking at like our gross revenue and I didn't care about

00:05:55.760 | gross revenue at all I care about making a profit and putting money in my pocket

00:06:00.520 | and that's how we that's how we earned our living they were basing our net

00:06:04.440 | worth they give me like comps of other companies I'm like we are way bigger

00:06:08.200 | than they are but they like well they've gross sales and all this like well

00:06:11.040 | they're losing money like I if you want if I had a year to build up for that

00:06:15.080 | sale and I just want to inflate our gross revenue I could done that easily I

00:06:18.920 | did it so we definitely sold it for far less but at the same time they were the

00:06:22.880 | a they were one of the only serious offers we had and they stayed out of our

00:06:27.840 | way they were kind of in a way the perfect partner outside the price

00:06:31.440 | because they let us do our thing so I didn't regret it and so when the pen

00:06:36.040 | deal came around was that you saying guys we have to really think about this

00:06:39.920 | or is that churn and saying we need to think about this before you get to the

00:06:43.360 | pen deal how did how did the growth how did the business go crazy over that

00:06:47.200 | three-and-a-half years did you invest a lot of capital at that time I mean how

00:06:50.400 | did the business go from you know twelve and a half to half a billion dollars is

00:06:54.760 | it that you bet you shifted the strategy and said hey let's go after a revenue

00:06:58.120 | now or I think it was it was probably two major things we we Erica was a

00:07:03.800 | perfect hire and built out the business side and people just totally

00:07:07.280 | underestimated us like I knew how big we were and in a weird way I think a lot of

00:07:12.280 | times even though people know us now they still are kind of flabbergasted

00:07:16.080 | when you go under the hood and see our influence like we barstools around 20

00:07:21.160 | years so during the time that we sold I always gave the analogy and this is old

00:07:26.680 | internet but people throw numbers out and how big their audience was and it's

00:07:30.840 | like if you're watching TV and someone has a remote control and they're just

00:07:33.840 | clicking every every second it's like everybody got one view like my network

00:07:38.400 | has a view my network has a view and I'd be telling people yeah but ours aren't

00:07:41.600 | changing the channel like they're what they're our viewer is one they're on in

00:07:45.320 | the channel for 30 minutes listening so our influence was just underestimated so

00:07:50.200 | when you and we did nothing on the business side like we really were so

00:07:53.440 | busy on creating content and you had to knock down our door to advertise with us

00:07:58.680 | so when we change that philosophy like let's build out the business side our

00:08:03.240 | tech all of it with our existing audience it was just kind of like a

00:08:06.400 | powder keg that exploded it didn't shock me to be honest granted the original

00:08:10.920 | business plan said in five years they wanted to sell it for like 50 million

00:08:15.520 | that was the original business plan and we got past that in like six months but

00:08:20.520 | you guys you guys decided to build quote-unquote in the wild like you had

00:08:23.940 | cameras inside you made stars of some of the people in there was that organic or

00:08:28.160 | with that that was like an explicit decision you're like this could be

00:08:31.040 | really interesting because these people are really odd characters they'll be

00:08:34.800 | great for television yeah so it was organic in the sense I started barstool

00:08:39.880 | I didn't want anyone know who I was it was strictly business it was a it was

00:08:43.200 | supposed to be like a gambling rag and I had fake names and all this but in the

00:08:47.680 | early days of the newspaper it slowly shifted that people were much more

00:08:52.560 | interested in the personalities behind everything so by the time we went to

00:08:56.960 | New York we knew with the focus should be on the personalities and the people

00:09:00.560 | we had working here and we have this wild cast of characters and we had a bit

00:09:05.360 | we were hiring people that were no one else would ever hire or give a chance I

00:09:09.000 | often say we're one of the first like digital true digital media companies

00:09:12.520 | like the people we found all the way from a Jenna Marbles to Pat McAfee to

00:09:17.840 | Alex Cooper McAfee couldn't get a job when he was done punting like you how

00:09:23.520 | did you hire McAfee how did he was a fan McAfee was a fan and we met him during a

00:09:29.600 | Super Bowl like we were at the Super Bowl and we couldn't get credentialed we

00:09:33.520 | had an RV that we parked outside and guests come on McAfee came on and he

00:09:38.760 | knew he wanted to get into media I think he wanted to work at ESPN they wouldn't

00:09:42.560 | hire him we did and obviously the rest of history with him Alex Cooper had a

00:09:47.960 | podcast that she just started we saw a sizzle reel for it it was something we'd

00:09:53.000 | never seen before so we called her into the office and when I met her she

00:09:57.200 | basically was like well I edited and made this entire sizzle reel myself like

00:10:02.280 | how'd you do that she's like I self-taught myself so we hired her no

00:10:06.120 | idea what would become with her podcast but we were willing to take chances

00:10:10.520 | almost like a band label type model it's like you hire this talent and you hope

00:10:14.740 | they hit there's a lot of misses we have how do you look at that like is it just

00:10:19.200 | instinct intuition you you see someone you're like they got it they don't have

00:10:23.280 | it I mean you kind of yeah it is instinct but it's wrong a lot of times

00:10:27.920 | that's why I go to the band label like you hear something this is unique this

00:10:32.120 | is interesting I may it may not always work for me like in my own personality a

00:10:37.240 | lot of the people who come from networks they're so used to being told what to do

00:10:40.480 | it's like all the way up this is how you produce it this is the hits this is what

00:10:44.120 | you have to do we didn't do any that it's Alex go do your thing sink or swim

00:10:48.280 | on the internet the beauty of the internet it will tell you voting machine

00:10:53.120 | it's all right yes oh yeah you know that's not true on ESPN maybe more so

00:10:58.440 | now but if you have you know Sports Center back in the day or you have the

00:11:03.000 | NFL show or your CBS you almost have to watch it old terrestrial radio there

00:11:07.520 | aren't options the internet like you said a voting machine so we'd hire

00:11:11.640 | people and let the internet decide what became of them you know the old studio

00:11:15.400 | model Dave they would have talent development and so there would be these

00:11:18.600 | producers that would come in and help the talent get better train and teach

00:11:21.760 | them the art etc but it sounds like do you guys do that I mean do you kind of

00:11:26.520 | stay out of their way you kind of let them run let them figure it out

00:11:29.200 | themselves and there's no training there's no tools there's no toolkit that

00:11:33.720 | says here's how you become successful here's how you here's what you got a hit

00:11:37.200 | on here's what you got to do well here's what you got to learn not to do etc yeah

00:11:40.040 | we don't do any of that I would say all those people anybody who tried to do

00:11:43.320 | what you just described would not be with us and I'd say is a dinosaur like

00:11:46.920 | again the people we've hired from networks the talent it's like they need

00:11:51.320 | their handheld for the most part there are so waiting this is what you do this

00:11:55.160 | is what you say and we don't do any of that yeah so the raw independent talent

00:11:59.720 | you just let them run they take off so then the business blows up yeah and then

00:12:02.760 | yeah tell us about the pen deal like how did that how did that conversation start

00:12:07.360 | when it happened we talked about it on our show because Chamath and I have

00:12:11.960 | talked a lot about this idea of the individual influencer media brands need

00:12:16.120 | to monetize in non-traditional ways it's not just about selling ads but there's

00:12:20.040 | kind of you know CPG businesses are being launched by Kim Kardashian and

00:12:24.280 | Kylie Jenner and there's an entirely new business model that's emerged with the

00:12:28.440 | independent media businesses that have been created over the last decade and

00:12:31.720 | this seemed like a very good example of that I guess how did the conversation

00:12:36.240 | with Penn start and how did that that deal kind of come about yeah so they

00:12:40.160 | changed the laws in the United States that's what sparked it when they said

00:12:43.880 | get sports gambling was going to become legal and a state issue we started when I

00:12:48.320 | started the thing we were a gambling newspaper like that's what we were so

00:12:51.720 | when that happened I instantly was like this is our chance so we proactively

00:12:57.760 | went out and tried to solicit deals like I had worked with Draftkings I'd worked

00:13:05.400 | with FanDuel back then Draftkings when they were four people they offered me

00:13:08.960 | stock in the company they're they're Boston guys I remember we sat down and

00:13:12.280 | we were kind of building our thing they were building there so I knew this space

00:13:15.720 | inside and out we really didn't get any offers we hired molas which is like a

00:13:22.600 | banking sign oh yeah they suck absolutely suck behind the door is one

00:13:28.400 | of the guys trashed me so the reason they weren't getting any offers was

00:13:32.160 | because I was like an ass or something to that effect I caught wind of that

00:13:36.120 | still irks me they got one penny of Commission on that sale but right the

00:13:41.760 | pen came through we had a guy David who's in the gambling space who

00:13:47.800 | introduced us to pen I had never heard of them and Erica and I hit it off with

00:13:54.040 | Jay Snowden the CEO and that deal basically was exclusively negotiated

00:14:00.840 | between Jay and I Eric involved to churning wasn't involved they didn't

00:14:05.840 | really want to talk to churning they want to talk to Erica and I because

00:14:09.600 | that's who they would be dealing with so it's like what's Dave about does Dave

00:14:13.640 | and Erica get along what's the company about and we negotiated that deal pretty

00:14:18.960 | much exclusively and then the deal was set up as a two-stage right like they

00:14:23.560 | bought a piece and then they bought the rest later correct which yeah my

00:14:27.120 | understanding of it it was always going to happen that way like right and and

00:14:33.720 | you know there are conversations that maybe would have changed our fortunes

00:14:37.560 | who knows like in the beginning do we call it parcel sports book or not

00:14:41.320 | because some people may not have a taste for bar so I argued we should we lose

00:14:45.560 | what is one of the great things I could have been wrong because dealing with

00:14:49.240 | state legislatures and government is a bear but it was always let's not go all

00:14:56.200 | in right right away because we don't want to shock gambling like legislatures

00:15:02.440 | let's start it slower and say we don't own them and then eventually we'll

00:15:06.080 | acquire the whole thing so that was always the plan and the price points

00:15:09.600 | were kind of mapped out and the thought from Penn is if Dave and Erica are

00:15:14.360 | creating all this great content we can integrate our sports book in there and

00:15:19.520 | now we just have a much cheaper way to get a lot more customers as gambling

00:15:23.600 | becomes legal all throughout America correct yes their basic bet and they had

00:15:27.600 | no national brand so in that sense they're the perfect fit like they owned

00:15:31.520 | all these scattered casinos throughout the country most of them people probably

00:15:37.360 | haven't heard of unless you live in that area but what that did do is it gave

00:15:40.840 | them licenses for the sports gambling so it's like what brand are they gonna

00:15:44.840 | launch with they didn't have one so in that we were the perfect fit and the

00:15:49.440 | launch is actually very successful in terms of you know we were up 15% or so

00:15:56.280 | in Pennsylvania other states pretty good launches but super competitive but yeah

00:16:00.840 | that was the theory behind so what what happened what then the deal kind of

00:16:05.240 | turned upside down pretty quickly right yeah I would say quickly because I

00:16:09.480 | thought we were kind of moving and grooving for a while our model was

00:16:15.640 | essentially we're not gonna pay for advertising like where the advertising

00:16:21.680 | vehicle so the people that space are spending hundreds of millions of dollars

00:16:27.680 | and they're losing hundreds of millions of dollars in the market shares it's you

00:16:33.440 | mean the cut the gambling companies correct dragons fan yeah MGM Caesars

00:16:37.960 | hundreds of millions hundreds of millions we're spending none they bought

00:16:41.800 | us so we're getting smashed in that regard but we're still kind of holding

00:16:46.400 | our market share which I thought was pretty strong

00:16:52.520 | our tech wasn't great and I think we knew that they bought a company the

00:16:58.080 | score for two billion I think they spent a lot of money on the score for the tech

00:17:02.360 | and it took a while for that to come out we didn't control it I was under the

00:17:07.440 | impression for the past football season we didn't promote that heart like you

00:17:13.640 | kind of waited because we're waiting for the new tech and then by the time the

00:17:17.640 | new tech came out they formed the deal with ESPN and we were done so did they

00:17:23.320 | step in and tell you how to run the company during that time were they kind

00:17:26.480 | of active and changing stuff or did they kind of leave you alone as well I think

00:17:32.160 | they were a headache for Erica in the sense of like we had to report now to a

00:17:36.640 | public company and and there was maybe more emphasis on the bottom line I

00:17:41.760 | didn't get affected by it outside of like of a scandal hit in their public

00:17:46.920 | company but they were they were pretty they were pretty lenient again there

00:17:51.120 | were things that came up in that relationship like that I don't think

00:17:54.680 | anybody could protect I still think we could do a very good we're very good at

00:18:00.000 | promoting gambling and and for pennies on the dollar consider can pair to what

00:18:05.680 | other companies do you yes they did an ESPN deal without your knowledge or were

00:18:11.320 | they did they tell you hey we got this this inbound from ESPN and we're trying

00:18:14.720 | to figure out what to do with it they did the ESPN deal without without me

00:18:18.280 | being involved mm-hmm yeah you find out on the back end of that correct and so

00:18:25.120 | how did you structure this deal to then get it out because it seems I mean that

00:18:29.960 | press was even more incredible than the press on the way in because it's like

00:18:33.280 | Portnoy just executed a really sick deal it looked like yeah I think there's was

00:18:38.240 | just a basic feeling from Penn and us that the the Barstool ESPN worlds are

00:18:44.040 | different they were gonna partner with ESPN they tried with us and I think the

00:18:49.400 | biggest the hiccup with me and my persona and what people feel about me

00:18:54.200 | it's one thing what is your persona and what do people feel about you depends

00:18:59.280 | who you ask some people love me and they'll be like this guy should run for

00:19:02.520 | president and some people think I'm the devil so depends what article you read

00:19:07.280 | but you know all the things that uh you know what what do they look like that

00:19:13.960 | person and who hates you what do they look like I well I'd say a rational

00:19:18.280 | person likes me and a crazy person doesn't like me but that's my own I feel

00:19:23.600 | the same way yeah I mean I think if you're going stereotypical is you're

00:19:29.320 | gonna say the right generally likes me in the left extreme left generally

00:19:33.400 | doesn't I think that the moderates on both sides generally like me but you

00:19:38.400 | know my core beliefs generally tend and people who follow me for a long time

00:19:44.880 | know this tend to line up with the left more than it does with the right but the

00:19:52.480 | hate I get comes from the left not the right you're a man without a home yeah

00:19:56.920 | it's an interesting kind of philosophy they have there but I will say if you

00:20:02.800 | say something that goes contrary to either side they'll equally jump down

00:20:06.280 | your throat and be like ah forget everything we've said about him like I

00:20:09.600 | remember I said it's pro-choice once and and I mean the right wanted to slip my

00:20:13.640 | cut my tongue out of my mouth I mean they were coming from people who had for

00:20:18.520 | ten years been like we love this guy we love this guy we love this guy disagreed

00:20:22.680 | on one point now like we hate this guy we hate this guy we hate this guy so uh

00:20:26.440 | both I guess I'm a man without a home is a fair way to put it but Dave at the end

00:20:31.480 | of the day it's like you speak your mind and people appreciate someone who speaks

00:20:36.600 | their mind and speaks their truth yeah or you speak the agenda and if you speak

00:20:43.600 | the agenda they say we like you and if you don't speak the agenda we don't like

00:20:46.680 | you yeah and it varies from if you cannot speak the agenda and they don't

00:20:51.960 | like you but if you get back on agenda on the next thing they like you again

00:20:55.480 | they don't they don't stay too firm on on it's just what you said last is

00:21:00.160 | basically what it is and I've always said I the biggest issue I have a lot of

00:21:03.920 | things I don't want to know what somebody thinks on an issue by their

00:21:07.720 | political affiliation like and I think 95% of the time you hear political

00:21:14.200 | people speak you already know what they're gonna say based on their

00:21:17.280 | affiliation which is sad and stinks hundred percent the flip side of that

00:21:21.800 | there's more people I know that there's far more people who think like I do and

00:21:27.960 | I feel like that's the norm but a normal person also doesn't want to get in

00:21:32.360 | screaming matches about politics and yeah total craziness totally and on any

00:21:36.800 | given topic or policy you got a point of view but if you don't conform to all the

00:21:42.640 | topics and policies that the agenda is defined to be by that party then you

00:21:47.760 | don't fit and you're ousted anyway you can't be an independent thinker today

00:21:51.320 | yeah do you think wild and we talked about this a lot because we just did our

00:21:54.360 | all-in summit this week and this this was a repeated theme with all the people

00:21:57.880 | we had we had Kirsten cinema she was a senator from Arizona you know she she

00:22:03.120 | got kind of ousted from the Democratic Party for speaking her mind and not kind

00:22:06.520 | of conforming to what the Democrats were telling her to do we have Barry Weiss

00:22:10.400 | who left the New York Times she was an editor at the New York Times and she

00:22:13.260 | didn't want to conform to their agenda and she started her own publication

00:22:17.520 | called the free press so we this was repeated a lot some of the academics we

00:22:21.460 | had were similarly ousted from from their communities anytime you don't

00:22:26.440 | speak the agenda and you speak your mind you kind of get ousted and then you're

00:22:29.160 | on the outskirts and you kind of have to start afresh do you think that this is a

00:22:32.840 | new phenomenon in America or do you think this has always been the case and

00:22:35.960 | we're just all kind of waking up to it because we're you know in your case

00:22:39.400 | you're more kind of celebrity now you're more well-known and this is becoming

00:22:43.000 | more of an issue for you has this always been how things have been I would guess

00:22:48.800 | it has been this way far far more than I realized of I think the internet

00:22:54.320 | certainly changes a lot of things because people have more voice and more

00:22:57.800 | access to information but I bet it's been like this a lot I mean I grew up in

00:23:03.960 | a house where like the New York Times is gospel and my dad hates Trump like my

00:23:09.480 | dad hates him hates him hates him my mom hates him hates him hates him and then I

00:23:13.200 | came under attacks from like the New York Times and that was confusing for

00:23:18.640 | like my dad it's like he's seen things that he's like I don't understand how

00:23:23.920 | this is happening and I'm showing him document stuff but yeah I probably think

00:23:28.040 | it has been this way because it's about power really and power is always

00:23:34.680 | something throughout history that people go pretty far to control maintain so I

00:23:41.080 | would guess this has been going on for a long time we interviewed Trump you did

00:23:45.700 | as well what was that experience like what did you think about him before

00:23:49.520 | going into it what did you think after and then when you shared it with your

00:23:53.920 | parents what did that do to your relationship with your parents or their

00:23:57.160 | thoughts about him yeah my so I was when Trump ran the first time I was like I'm

00:24:05.200 | Trump because I think politics are so broken and I think he's somebody who can

00:24:09.200 | just kind of like make a mockery of it and break politics I said you needed a

00:24:13.280 | torpedo yes now I didn't think I was gonna win the presidency I was stunned I

00:24:17.800 | was nervous when I went to interview him to be honest because he asked me I had

00:24:23.200 | like 24 hours notice he was still sitting president I don't do interviews

00:24:28.160 | so I was nervous when I went in my thought on him was well I thought it was

00:24:35.960 | funny and interesting but he gets if you if someone is interviewing me and I

00:24:45.800 | think they hate my guts and I think no matter what this interview comes out I

00:24:50.240 | could have the cure for cancer and they'd be like no you don't or I give

00:24:54.360 | you a dollar and they want a hundred if I just think it's no matter what happens

00:24:59.600 | they're gonna try to crucify me I would probably be like an arrogant head in

00:25:04.800 | that interview he when he realized that I was not trying to like gotcha or

00:25:10.080 | anything he was affable open and normal I think that's what happens with him

00:25:14.660 | quite a bit it's like he senses instantly it's not hard to tell who's

00:25:19.560 | coming first throat who's gonna be fair who's on his side and that changes his

00:25:23.000 | demeanor you know I've done a decent amount of research I feel like on Trump

00:25:29.760 | people everyone he's lying and this and that like that's what the left always

00:25:34.640 | says he's a liar that's a lie that's a lie and I read an article just like last

00:25:38.080 | week it was from Time magazine is like top 10 lies he's told and most of the

00:25:44.000 | lies tend to be what I would say are exaggerations like he talks how he would

00:25:50.520 | if he was on barstool like I'm gonna build like a hundred he said he's gonna

00:25:54.480 | build a thousand feet of wall and he built like 300 feet or they're all like

00:25:59.240 | they're not they're great like even how he talks in the debate you know like

00:26:04.840 | they're eating the pets and he's just not presidential and then those things

00:26:11.200 | get taken and there he's a liar does this but they're not what I would say

00:26:16.640 | egregious lies most of them they're quite clear exaggerations and he doesn't

00:26:22.520 | talk like a president and whether that helps or hurts him down the road I just

00:26:28.600 | think he's he's a not presidential president I said during the primaries I

00:26:35.200 | would I would have voted for Nikki Haley I'll vote for Trump in the presidency

00:26:40.040 | because I want the country to get along I don't know if they can with him

00:26:47.440 | because it's not his fault necessarily to me but they just people just he's

00:26:51.840 | broken people's brains they're like they're just broken it's the you see

00:26:56.720 | people it's like they're not making any sense the things they jump on like it

00:27:01.640 | there's no there's nothing he can say yeah I'll make him that'll make him say

00:27:06.240 | what do you think what do you think happens if Kamala wins it's probably

00:27:12.240 | more of the same you know I I think that what the Democrats have done is far

00:27:18.840 | worse than really anything Trump has done like in terms of not allowing a

00:27:23.840 | primary to me that's crazy like I'm somebody who if I liked a candidate and

00:27:28.720 | the Democrat Democrat side I could have potentially voted for that person like

00:27:33.620 | to not give people a choice and they really still haven't figured out well

00:27:39.400 | was he not prepared like is he not mentally aware can he not run is he too

00:27:45.720 | old he just thought he was gonna lose the the theorem you just thought he was

00:27:49.080 | gonna lose it's not a real answer he ran like you have to then let other people

00:27:53.720 | run and if he's not mentally there which I don't think he is Kamala has known

00:27:59.600 | that like and she just lied about it forever and then they kick him out so

00:28:03.800 | there's so many problems I have with the way she never got a vote like I that I

00:28:10.080 | don't know you can say whatever you want about Trump he won the Republican

00:28:14.920 | nomination by landslide fair and square and Kamala did not so to me that's a

00:28:20.160 | major major issue some of her past statements for me are just like nutty

00:28:26.200 | and I don't like what's happened in a lot of Democratic states so I would vote

00:28:31.520 | like I hope if she's elected it like California and New York those don't

00:28:39.160 | become what happens the United States I don't know that it will I don't know

00:28:41.640 | that that much can change is it hard to build a company of young creative people

00:28:47.100 | in New York that abide by the culture that you want or do you find yourself

00:28:52.560 | pushing up against all kinds of things that you're just like what are these

00:28:55.600 | people asking for I don't get it no because we hire I think the hardest

00:28:59.220 | thing is just cost of living and taxes and things like that for our employees

00:29:03.600 | to live in New York City it's extremely expensive we wouldn't run into the

00:29:09.680 | people who think in our proper employees for us they're there and by the way we

00:29:14.680 | have across Barstow we have super liberal conservative we have it all and

00:29:18.460 | they clash internally like how normal humans would but it's really the cost of

00:29:22.720 | living like in taxes and you know it's just really really hard for a young

00:29:27.400 | person you know you could pay him 200 grand a year and that is barely enough

00:29:31.960 | for someone to live in Manhattan okay well talk about that for a second you

00:29:36.160 | know a lot of the undercurrent of why people are angry is that there's just

00:29:40.560 | really exaggerated wealth inequality right there's folks like us that have

00:29:44.880 | sort of been lucky good whatever you want to call it on the right side of

00:29:48.720 | doing well and then there's all those other people with the potential to do

00:29:51.760 | well but they're constrained somehow and it's just getting harder and harder you

00:29:56.840 | have sympathy for that argument do you have any sense of like what should be

00:29:59.680 | done to fix that I do and it's such a hard thing to answer because I do but I

00:30:06.800 | also think at times it's a crutch like so where is that fine balance and I guess

00:30:13.760 | the way I've thought about it as an overall philosophy is we should be

00:30:18.720 | looking forward not backward and there feels like there's a whole lot of how do

00:30:25.760 | we fix backwards but that's not necessarily gonna really help forward if

00:30:32.240 | that makes sense like I mean California going back and they're looking at like

00:30:37.040 | reparations and things like it's you hear it's like well how are they gonna do

00:30:41.800 | that we already have like crazy inflation and now you're saying you want

00:30:45.520 | to give everybody like african-americans who fit the criteria is like millions of

00:30:52.000 | dollars each is that where what from where like where is where is all this

00:30:55.560 | coming from so it's moving forward and at what point I think a fair question is

00:31:01.960 | at what point is like all right well this isn't working like we if you're

00:31:05.840 | just consistently going back you're not gonna go forward that's kind of how like

00:31:09.680 | if you pay a person at bars tool 200 K I'm just picking that number I'm not

00:31:13.440 | saying you do or not and they can't really make ends meet in New York City

00:31:17.200 | and they say Dave I got to quit I got to move to a cheaper city or whatever after

00:31:21.120 | enough people say that do you pay that person 250 or do you think you have to

00:31:25.040 | move the company do you think you need to change the laws of the city like what

00:31:28.720 | happens when you're running this business now and that inequality issue

00:31:32.480 | is confronted every day in your employee base what do you do yeah for me on a

00:31:35.880 | personal basis a lot of it we're sort of a talent company so if I can't lose this

00:31:43.040 | person I'll up the ante and pay to keep them if we can afford to move on without

00:31:48.240 | them we'll move on without them so it's a but it's a case by case in a tough

00:31:54.840 | tough issue yeah Dave I just want to go back a second you ended up buying the

00:32:00.040 | company back for a dollar one question I had was how is it $1 and not 20 million

00:32:06.440 | dollars and I want to talk a little bit about this idea of founder mode which I

00:32:11.120 | don't know if you've heard this term but it was kind of brought up in Silicon

00:32:13.720 | Valley a week or two ago and it's cocaine it's cocaine we made a whole

00:32:19.120 | thing about it I don't know if you like founder mode or not yeah but I'm not

00:32:22.840 | coca-cola coffee guy well I guess how is it a dollar how was it sounds like a

00:32:30.280 | great deal how did you negotiate that and is it a doll or is there is there a

00:32:33.640 | back-end deal or something that we're that we're missing that no no yeah no I

00:32:37.440 | think what it the thought was we had a lot of headaches with state legislatures

00:32:44.320 | gambling there was a like the Massachusetts gambling lady hated my

00:32:48.440 | guts other people did I think for Penn to move forward they kind of had to

00:32:52.760 | disassociate this with the bet they made and quickly yeah and quickly and let's

00:32:59.200 | end on very good terms barstool myself I think that's where it came from I don't

00:33:05.280 | think that I don't think we were like a critical part but did you propose the

00:33:09.920 | terms did you propose that structure it was mutual it was it was a mutual like

00:33:13.840 | understanding but a dollar seems like that's a very stark number was it

00:33:19.240 | burning money at the time well you have to put something I think if you're gonna

00:33:22.640 | give me the company back like if you could do zero I think they could do zero

00:33:26.560 | yeah the company was losing money oh I see and so do you have to put money in

00:33:30.440 | yourself no okay and so you took the business over and I want to play this

00:33:36.560 | clip Nick can you pull the clip up this should be interesting I had a sales

00:33:41.800 | meeting today I think I think I let him I let him know he's back I let him know

00:33:49.200 | I was here crack some skulls I think crack skulls but it's like you their

00:33:54.120 | comp plan was to me they should be making more money on their comp plan less

00:33:59.080 | base salary you know a lot of people may not make it this is gonna get grimy

00:34:05.480 | again I will yell at you I may forget about it five seconds later if you

00:34:11.520 | can't handle that don't be here but I'm sick of the excuses and honestly our

00:34:16.840 | comp plan was ass backwards so salespeople I want people up there like a

00:34:20.800 | bunch of Gordon Gekko looking motherfuckers that's good you step in

00:34:28.840 | and you know this is what people in Silicon Valley might call founder mode

00:34:33.400 | you're just like cracking skulls you're seeing all this you're like we're gonna

00:34:38.000 | right-size the the organization we're gonna get the ship headed in the right

00:34:41.680 | direction we're gonna restructure comp I guess how did things drift you know

00:34:46.400 | during that time yeah they drifted we're a big public company that was using us

00:34:52.960 | as a marketing machine really to drive drive consumers the casino maybe weren't

00:34:57.960 | as concerned about the bottom line you know I wasn't involved in really a lot

00:35:03.920 | of stuff but it was growth mode growth mode growth mode not bottom line mode

00:35:08.400 | not bottom line mode which was I think what they wanted from us and that was no

00:35:13.640 | longer going to be the case and it isn't case was this like Elon take it over

00:35:18.720 | Twitter and he kind of goes in he's like what the heck is going on here we gotta

00:35:21.880 | yeah yeah from what I heard or saw stories of that yes I think very similar

00:35:28.320 | where and again this is always there's one thing that I clash at the left there

00:35:33.000 | seems to be like oh we shouldn't have to work hard culture like yo I have to work

00:35:39.920 | like 10 hours a day or you get what you work for so we're a great place to work

00:35:44.880 | people kill to work for Barstool there's not and and we're always fine that like

00:35:49.240 | I had a sales job grass is always greener on the other side but you know

00:35:52.560 | we do sports entertainment it's a great spot to work and if you work hard you

00:35:58.560 | get rewarded but there is sort of that I don't know the shaming of success

00:36:04.920 | earning whatever you want to call it I do feel like exist in our in our country

00:36:10.840 | a little bit and I don't know where that came from but that's the thing that

00:36:15.280 | hurts me the most I think the I've said this before but the prosperity that we

00:36:20.460 | enjoy as a country is because of the productivity that's arisen from

00:36:27.320 | entrepreneurship and entrepreneurship means everyone has a chance to build

00:36:31.440 | something and be successful in this country and if you are you deserve that

00:36:35.360 | success and we should be rewarding that success with accolades not with disdain

00:36:39.840 | yeah it's like it's a it's a slur like I love the word bill it's a someone could

00:36:47.840 | call me a billionaire it's I would take that and happily be like well you know

00:36:52.440 | I've said that now that's one thing I'm always I won't apologize for making

00:36:56.400 | money having money spending money I had none of it like that's what I worked my

00:37:00.040 | ass off for and it is wildly irritating as somebody who you know Bill Barstow I

00:37:08.240 | didn't take a vacation day for ten years like and literally I had a hump in my

00:37:12.320 | neck because I was like at my computer all day to then be told I have to coddle

00:37:17.080 | somebody else who works for me is infuriating and that's good the bigger

00:37:23.000 | you get like if I didn't have to have HR or any of that I know you can't go

00:37:26.280 | over I want it like I want to be able to and the bigger you get the less you can

00:37:32.800 | do that because you don't know who you're talking to and what type of issue

00:37:35.720 | that may lead to yeah do you like the business building aspect I mean do you

00:37:40.360 | like building sales comp plans and looking at the finances and figuring out

00:37:45.840 | the right next step strategically or do you like being on camera and creating

00:37:50.760 | content and creatives yeah like how much of a business guy are you are you like

00:37:55.920 | I think I'm underestimate a little in business side there's certain aspects I

00:38:00.680 | like certain aspects I hate like in our world I hate negotiating the talent

00:38:05.880 | contracts like if you could have told me Dave don't like what's something you're

00:38:10.440 | gonna hate it's the talent business where inherently we're trying to find

00:38:14.560 | new stars build them up just so they can turn around hire an agent negotiate us

00:38:20.240 | and then leave so it's like this I wish it was a product that I owned in in the

00:38:25.200 | more we do that that is a guy I hate it and you know we're using everything and

00:38:32.000 | you it happens that Alex McAfee we make millionaires out of people but that's

00:38:38.080 | our business so I hate hate hate that but the business side of it outside of

00:38:42.480 | the talent and what's the next steps I enjoy how successful has it been to

00:38:46.480 | launch these products off of Barcelona so you know you've launched a whole line

00:38:51.200 | of stuff what's working and what's not working what have you learned from that

00:38:54.200 | yeah what I've learned about our audience and this probably holds true

00:38:59.600 | for a lot it doesn't matter what I say or our influences the product it's like

00:39:05.400 | if if the products good did they do well like pink Whitney is a drink that kills

00:39:10.440 | it for us we are Dan big cat has a coffee now I did a what excuse me a one

00:39:15.800 | bite frozen pizza it was the biggest frozen launch Walmart ever had it's gone

00:39:20.720 | it's basically disappeared because it wasn't very good and that's a huge

00:39:25.960 | missed opportunity probably because I got everybody to eat it and we had like

00:39:31.360 | a million and not even our crowd our crowds on a Walmart crowd because a lot

00:39:35.200 | of you're saying the products are the actual product is bad it tasted bad how

00:39:40.040 | did that happen how did it taste bad yeah cuz I don't know what the hell I

00:39:44.080 | was doing we had a third party and and I just didn't understand the frozen

00:39:50.640 | pizza market I thought we had made it as good as you could make it and that just

00:39:55.000 | wasn't the case so it was a bad product I knew was bad so after it launched it

00:40:02.360 | pretty much disappeared I mean still occasionally there so it really is

00:40:07.080 | product high noon which I don't own but I'm heavily involved in it's an

00:40:10.520 | unbelievable product it's just a spectacular drink it's the number one

00:40:15.960 | Vodka on the market so we have this this megaphone of people who trust us and

00:40:22.560 | we'll give anything a shot but if the products no good it ain't gonna work and

00:40:26.480 | if products good it'll work you know years ago Starbucks set up a corporate

00:40:30.480 | strategy they Howard realized that every time they put a new product on the

00:40:35.680 | shelf right when you check out you know there at the register yep it would sell

00:40:40.200 | like crazy but then it would also go sell like crazy and Walmart and Target

00:40:43.320 | and Kroger's all over the country everywhere else and they were making

00:40:47.320 | brands with their platform they realized you know we've got a platform so they

00:40:51.680 | started to kind of do these deals where in order to put your brand your product

00:40:55.360 | on the shelf at checkout they had to get equity in the business is that a model

00:41:00.160 | you've kind of played with where you can leverage the platform instead of

00:41:03.320 | charging people add dollars you basically align with brands that you

00:41:07.200 | love take a piece of those brands and then really truly partner up with them

00:41:11.840 | and help them be successful and participate in that upside with them

00:41:14.560 | yes yep we've done that we're starting to do that a lot more now that I've got

00:41:20.880 | the company back because when it wasn't my company I I didn't care as much

00:41:26.280 | because it's like what are we getting so I'm trying to be much more like helpful

00:41:33.160 | to our talent because not only are they happy but it helps me keep them so we're

00:41:37.840 | doing a lot more deals now how you just suggest what's the what's the day in the

00:41:41.840 | life of Dave Portnoy are you like on zooms all day talking to your teams

00:41:45.640 | about various things or when do you have time to make the content like how do you

00:41:49.680 | yeah I was your day structure it really varies it can vary day to day I have my

00:41:55.180 | set like content things that I'm doing whether it's pizza BFF I may do a

00:41:59.900 | podcast like this and then business stuff but I'm not working like how I was

00:42:05.400 | working when I started it we have good people at high levels who I trust and

00:42:09.960 | are doing like whether it's a CFO whether it's sales I'm still in the loop

00:42:14.080 | on how everything's going but I'm not as involved in the day at each day I mean

00:42:19.480 | like would you say your style is like you observe and then if you feel or

00:42:23.160 | sense it's going off track you just jump in and just 100% yeah that's 100% what I

00:42:27.560 | would do yeah cuz like yes I was much more involved the beginning I don't want

00:42:33.720 | to be that involved as like I want kind of live my life a little bit so yes

00:42:39.280 | that's I would say that's exactly how I do it let's go back to your roots for a

00:42:42.600 | second because I'm I'm really curious about this do you think that sports

00:42:46.520 | gambling has been good for America so far based on how it's been launched how

00:42:53.640 | young men use it yeah I mean I'd say it's new I wouldn't say it's good or bad

00:42:58.800 | I mean everyone's doing it I'm sure there's horror stories just like anything

00:43:03.320 | any vice of people be like oh I lost money or whatever but from my world I

00:43:08.560 | was doing it my whole life so I was doing it was not legal I'm also a firm

00:43:12.740 | believer and let an adult be an adult like if they want to gamble they do it

00:43:17.640 | but I wouldn't say it's been it's probably created a bunch of business

00:43:20.480 | like because the industry is spending so much and that trickles down in so many

00:43:26.280 | different areas so gambling is going to happen there's certain things that I'm

00:43:32.240 | pretty things that have happened since the dawn of man gambling is one of them

00:43:37.000 | it is going to happen so you might as well legalize it and make money off of

00:43:41.480 | it rather than have it be underground bookies and things like that you talk a

00:43:44.800 | lot about WNB right now but are there sports leagues that you think are just

00:43:48.520 | yesterday's news a little bit boring not really well baseball slow they're also

00:43:53.560 | like in some bizarre world the last to embrace like highlights in the internet

00:43:58.600 | where the NBA was always the leader in forefront I think it shows you know

00:44:03.800 | football isn't it's the same same sports basically I think baseball is the core

00:44:09.200 | for this lagging do you think do sports franchise values go up as legalization

00:44:15.640 | happens and then do sports franchise values go down and you know is that a

00:44:19.960 | big driver do you think for well the NFL is talking about letting private equity

00:44:25.600 | right invest yeah last month yeah so I can't that that to me can only make

00:44:34.080 | franchises skyrocket and I don't think the bottom line always matters with

00:44:39.640 | sports like making money losing money there's not many of them and it's the

00:44:44.760 | biggest toy anybody really on earth can have right like what is better and it

00:44:49.880 | does for some people doesn't matter how much money you have you may still not be

00:44:53.680 | able to get it so I can't see any world in which that doesn't continue to

00:44:59.360 | increase when this the demand far outweighs supply do you think that

00:45:04.160 | there's a world where somebody figures out a way for the players to own a piece

00:45:08.640 | of these teams as well like you know you talked about you started barstool your

00:45:12.840 | four main guys whether that was written down or not you're giving them equity in

00:45:18.200 | the same way if you think about the equity that you know MJ created in the

00:45:21.760 | league or LeBron and Steph and KD have created in the league they capture it in

00:45:25.840 | salary but they don't capture it in equity how do you think about that it's

00:45:30.840 | a tough question because by the time you would say like an MJ or a LeBron maybe

00:45:37.360 | LeBron a little different but by the time they've risen to the level of all

00:45:42.840 | this guy knee is worth the equity like if you rewound Jordan's career from day

00:45:47.920 | one and you have the choice like we can have them on the polls or whatever

00:45:51.720 | clearly the equity is probably worth it but by the time he establishes that

00:45:55.680 | you're depending on almost which I find almost never happens in business rare

00:46:00.280 | like retroactive goodwill good faith like okay you did so much here's some

00:46:05.780 | equity I don't I haven't found many people do that no I think for the NBA

00:46:10.960 | they'll just they'll probably find a way for LeBron to get the Vegas franchise

00:46:14.480 | that's kind of his his reward maybe you know yeah but then there's a bunch of

00:46:19.120 | these other guys that are when you say LeBron do you mean like the Fenway

00:46:22.360 | sports group because he's that like they buy teams he's part of that I think I

00:46:26.320 | think it's probably it's probably Fenway maybe but I think that they want him on

00:46:30.980 | the masthead as a direct owner yeah I suspect if I had to guess I mean Jordan

00:46:35.240 | had minority in the Wizards do you still gamble for fun or do you still gamble

00:46:41.080 | mostly let me let me tell you Dave's bets this year because I had him pulled

00:46:44.880 | up you bet I'm high one to your yeah tell us it so 2.1 million on on the

00:46:51.600 | Huskies 1.3 million on those are winnings yeah yeah on the Masters on

00:46:56.600 | Scotty 1.1 million on the Celtics maybe a finals million dollars on Michigan over

00:47:01.920 | Alabama and the Rose Bowl half a million on the Chiefs to win the Super Bowl half

00:47:05.760 | a million on Washington over Texas and the Sugar Bowl you're gambling yes so to

00:47:11.000 | clarify the only the early ones that I bet a million on Michigan to win the

00:47:16.240 | Rose Bowl that's just a million to win a million I went to Michigan I went to the

00:47:20.200 | game it's like this is gonna be my big bet most of the others have been like

00:47:23.860 | future so like the not nearly the winnings have been big because I've been

00:47:28.960 | red-hot I've gambled my whole life I love gambling people we have a big

00:47:32.880 | partnership with Draftkings people are always like Oh Draftkings gives them the

00:47:36.080 | money or pen no it's my own money and yeah it's it's a passion of mine I love

00:47:41.040 | doing I bet on a horse racing sports and I enjoy it the worst thing about

00:47:45.400 | gambling in my opinion is we have to pay taxes on the winnings and then we can't

00:47:50.240 | carry over the losses the great news which may be different I generally don't

00:47:56.240 | have to worry about that because I generally lose so I'm never like worried

00:47:59.680 | this year this year will be year one of quite a long life that I've won in it

00:48:04.760 | doesn't look like I'm going that way but that is crap it's like Kamala like

00:48:08.480 | unrealized unrealized gains I like you get taxed on something you never had

00:48:13.200 | exactly is she's still doing that by the way is that like a real thing she walked

00:48:17.920 | it back a little she walked it back yeah she said oh no and then she also walked

00:48:21.880 | back the capital gains tax from 40% down to 28 because the backlash she got when

00:48:27.520 | she said hey I support the Biden proposal for tax reform there was so

00:48:32.640 | much backlash she started to lose a lot of big donors and they were like okay

00:48:37.080 | you know here's the compromise and that's where they ended up so what

00:48:40.240 | ultimately happens if she gets elected it's anyone's guess you know all these

00:48:44.520 | guys are kind of tacking to get elected and no one knows what their actual

00:48:47.840 | policy will end up being when they're in office for all right folks so you know

00:48:51.800 | we don't know do you gamble in any other way craps dice yes that's what I was

00:48:55.760 | gonna ask you ever blackjack poker yeah or stocks you know like you did stocks

00:49:00.800 | for a while didn't you on I love stocks like stocks is to me is better than

00:49:05.320 | sports gambling because you rarely like unless a company just goes poof you're

00:49:09.600 | not like out like if you have patience for the most part you can bounce back so

00:49:14.720 | yeah I have money in the stock market I'll play like at a casino but it

00:49:20.240 | doesn't do it for me I'm delusional like I think I know what's gonna happen in

00:49:25.520 | sports like I'm like oh I know the Patriots are playing or like if I'm

00:49:29.280 | playing blackjack like I know the rules but I also know I have no control over

00:49:34.280 | what I don't count cards I like poker but I'm no expert at it and I don't play

00:49:38.880 | that often it doesn't say you're not a quant guy you're not an analytical guy

00:49:43.400 | it's doing nothing or anything like no no no no no if I could go back at one

00:49:47.160 | skill I'd love to like be able to like to have an algorithm for the stock

00:49:51.960 | market like how all the people make all their money where just hit like but I

00:49:55.440 | don't have that brain you did a lot of it during kovat but then that content

00:49:58.680 | kind of wound down yeah well the stock market during coat so we did the pen

00:50:02.960 | deal like right before kovat so we're gearing up to do all the sports gambling

00:50:08.200 | content and sports went away and I'm alright well the stock market is still

00:50:13.280 | going it's kind of the same thing so I started doing that without much

00:50:16.680 | knowledge live streaming and people loved it the swings in the stock market

00:50:21.440 | during kovat bananas yes it was I mean huge like I loved it but that's not

00:50:28.920 | happening so to do the daily I was day trading stocks aren't moving nearly

00:50:34.040 | unless it's like in earnings they're not moving like they were so it's it's

00:50:38.560 | boring yeah can you tell us about the Caitlin Clark Angel Reese WNBA

00:50:44.320 | controversy you have some strong opinions on that you have strong

00:50:47.000 | opinions on that I mean I so I love Caitlin Clark this I mean do you think

00:50:53.000 | do you think it's Larry magic all over again we'll see how Angel she had a

00:50:59.640 | great rookie year had a great rookie year yeah Angel was not on the same but

00:51:05.360 | I don't think not if you love college basketball women's college basketball

00:51:09.960 | sure you knew Angel Reese was I did not know who Angel Reese was until she was

00:51:15.480 | doing this thing to Caitlin Clark in this and follow who is this whereas

00:51:19.440 | magic and bird everybody knew those two going in Angel and this isn't this will

00:51:27.320 | sound disrespectful but it's a fact people would not the majority of people

00:51:32.480 | would not know who she was if it wasn't for her going at Caitlin Clark in

00:51:37.400 | becoming her rival by really trash-talking her and that anybody in

00:51:41.120 | the media who says it's anything other than Angel Reese thrusting herself into

00:51:47.720 | this conversation which by the way business-wise brilliant for her because

00:51:51.200 | she's got shoe deals she was Shaq she's got all this stuff but people would not

00:51:54.760 | know who she was if Caitlin Clark is everybody every metric like a unicorn

00:52:00.000 | yeah yeah exactly so and she put herself in the same conversation with it and

00:52:05.440 | she's had a great rookie season but bird magic no one knew she I mean I didn't

00:52:09.800 | know I just saw Caitlin play in college and she was doing things I just never

00:52:14.520 | seen a woman doing best pulling up from the logo pal like who the hell is this

00:52:18.760 | and I just started watching her and I didn't even during the game with um the

00:52:24.240 | LSU when and she did all the theatrical I didn't notice angel during the game

00:52:27.840 | like I really I bet on Iowa I was mad and then I don't know if I get credit or

00:52:33.120 | or disapprove however you want to put it I tweeted and this went super viral and

00:52:38.600 | started like a race war I was so mad when they lost this game I tweeted

00:52:44.000 | Angel Reese is a classless piece of shit it's the first time I talked about her

00:52:47.960 | and it was right after she was taunting her and everyone's like you only said

00:52:51.520 | that because he's black it's like it had nothing to do it it was I bet on Caitlin

00:52:55.720 | I was pissed it didn't matter who it was people always ignore that with me some

00:53:00.040 | of my most fiercest enemies Roger Goodell like I and I had to pull up like Brooks

00:53:04.920 | Koepka I'm like all these people I'd call classless pieces of shit it's how I

00:53:08.520 | talk but the race thing from that moment really took off between these two I

00:53:16.160 | wouldn't say it's bird magic I think it's disrespectful to how different

00:53:20.800 | because those are two of the greatest of all time two of the greatest of all time

00:53:23.960 | and angels a great rebound and to Caitlin's credit I think that she has

00:53:27.320 | completely uplifted the WNBA to a level that I don't think anybody expect it's

00:53:31.400 | insane the number one game on NBA TV has been a WNBA game is beating the NBA I

00:53:38.640 | remember when you know we had a moment where Steph had all these ankle injuries

00:53:42.680 | this was like in that first era with Monte Allison and there was a lot of

00:53:47.000 | pressure to trade step and yeah just came back and all of a sudden he was

00:53:51.760 | lights out right and then what you saw was every young kid wearing his jersey

00:53:57.000 | because it's much easier to look at step and say I could be like Steph right not

00:54:02.800 | nearly as tall as everybody else not nearly as huge as everybody else and

00:54:06.280 | you're starting to see the same thing with Caitlin where all these kids are

00:54:09.600 | like I can shoot like her that's where you become transcendent because you have

00:54:13.840 | this approach that seems like well I could do this too it's that thing that

00:54:18.120 | just makes you a huge star I said when Nike did the deal with her I thought it

00:54:22.560 | was the most the biggest steal like in the history of sports marketing like it

00:54:27.920 | was 10 million and then you look at like Devin Booker's like 30 million a year

00:54:31.120 | there's no person on the planet who can tell me Devin Booker's more marketable

00:54:36.400 | than Caitlin Clark it's like Caitlin Clark is up there with anybody she's

00:54:40.280 | she's hit something that that you rarely whether it's a tiger a Serena somebody

00:54:46.180 | who is just redefining the sport and it's not the color of her skin that I

00:54:51.640 | that was what drove me nuts with this because the WNBA is filled with white

00:54:55.680 | superstars people are at Diana Taurasi so the Sabrina I okay there's a ton of

00:55:02.360 | Inesco yeah Inesco and the woman from UConn who's at the top top and superb

00:55:10.200 | there's ton she plays different if you watch the game she does not play how

00:55:15.920 | anybody's seen a woman play that's it that and everyone made it into all these

00:55:20.080 | others issue it's she plays different you haven't seen it before Dave let me

00:55:24.960 | ask you a question you've remained steadfast in speaking your mind speaking

00:55:28.960 | your truth telling your opinions it's gotten you a lot of heat over the years

00:55:33.040 | you got a lot of people writing articles negatively about you chasing down

00:55:36.120 | personal stories about you all this sort of stuff you're still here and there was

00:55:41.680 | a period of time for a couple years where everyone talked about canceled

00:55:44.960 | culture and someone does something that is inappropriate or is a micro

00:55:49.240 | aggression using a big platform and they should be canceled and everyone rallies

00:55:52.800 | behind and puts this person out they're done but you haven't been canceled why

00:55:58.600 | is that and do you think that we're kind of post cancel culture in America was

00:56:01.960 | that a moment that's come and gone or do you think we're still kind of fighting

00:56:05.520 | the fight for free speech in America and the ability to speak one's mind and

00:56:10.200 | speak one's voice without being deep platformed and shut down yeah I don't

00:56:13.840 | think it's totally gone I think I'm here just it Barstool's been around for a

00:56:19.760 | long time so people really do know me like the fans or people have read

00:56:24.760 | Barstool for 20 years have stuck by me and how and and that's been important

00:56:29.840 | like if you're on someone else's platform it's a lot easier to platform

00:56:34.040 | them because you have advertisers and somebody above who don't want to deal

00:56:37.560 | with the headache or anything like that so I I've been like even when Penn was

00:56:41.480 | here and there are people above me theoretically what choice did they have

00:56:46.960 | to have my back because it's it's well if you don't have my back I still have

00:56:50.240 | this megaphone I'm just gonna be like guess what these guys don't have my back

00:56:53.880 | and then poof everything they've done so I've had that luxury of being able to

00:56:58.440 | speak directly and not having to worry where if you're just on a different

00:57:01.940 | network they can pull the plug a lot easier and I'm kind of an open book so

00:57:10.160 | it's I I think what has worked in my favor I've never been worried well if I

00:57:15.520 | speak out or defend myself what's gonna come out next or is there someone

00:57:19.280 | lurking in the closets I guess I've never care I everything is out there I

00:57:22.360 | there's I've told the truth and that's allowed me to be pretty comfortable like

00:57:28.440 | the heavy accusations like business insider when like sexual misconduct type

00:57:32.560 | stuff like all garbage and when I say point there wasn't point zero zero one

00:57:37.240 | there was no truth to any of the stuff that happened I had all the facts and so

00:57:42.120 | when this thing hit like I just it made me look kind of stupid or embarrassed

00:57:46.880 | because nobody wants like personal text but I had that stuff out there like it

00:57:50.760 | was out there hours after it's like here it is here's everything that disproves

00:57:55.400 | it not everyone does that you think people are just sick and tired of being

00:57:59.600 | told what to think and who to follow and who's right and who's wrong and they

00:58:02.680 | want to kind of make up their own minds and not kind of get behind this whole

00:58:06.040 | cancel culture organizational system anymore you think 100% I know my biggest

00:58:12.400 | issue is I don't know what to believe I don't believe anything like and that's

00:58:17.040 | kind of unfortunate like you you just hear so many things and it's a lot of

00:58:22.560 | times even hard to figure out where the truth is like you try to dig into it

00:58:26.960 | especially in politics like but that's probably good answer example I hear so

00:58:32.080 | many things on both sides and then when you really try to dig down and be like

00:58:36.520 | is this real is this fake it's it's hard to find the root of the truth and that

00:58:42.080 | is actually kind of scary I think that's why that's why freedom of speech matters

00:58:46.800 | now more than ever because we got to have more voices not fewer so that

00:58:50.720 | people can ultimately find the truth themselves have you been able to convince

00:58:54.760 | your dad that maybe the New York Times isn't always telling the truth no I

00:58:58.480 | haven't which is scary he doesn't have an answer for it with me does but like

00:59:04.200 | he still truly believes he's one of those guys where there's nothing Trump

00:59:10.520 | could do nothing nothing like he's bad and if he gives the greatest answer

00:59:15.840 | greatest thing whatever it doesn't matter Trump's bad I mean you can give

00:59:19.120 | well what about the other side he doesn't care so no he's skewed he he's

00:59:23.800 | somebody who's gonna watch mainstream media and pretty much believe everything

00:59:28.000 | they say maybe a little bit he's changed but and I think there's a lot of people

00:59:32.720 | like well before we wrap what's the what's the future for Barstool Dave

00:59:36.880 | what are you what are you gonna do with the business over time it's just a

00:59:39.520 | business you now own forever you're gonna run it make a profit live off of

00:59:43.440 | it I mean what's your your long yeah I mean that that kind of nailed it I in

00:59:48.280 | this may sound not like a true founder I sometimes get this but I want Barstool

00:59:54.640 | to be a place where we break even or make money so I'm not overly stressed

00:59:58.960 | and pulling my hair out and people enjoy coming to work and they have a good job

01:00:03.200 | that like I've said and I said to our employees when I took it's like I've

01:00:07.240 | made my money I I've never gonna become like a billionaire off Barstool and

01:00:11.960 | someone pays it so I'm happy I'm comfortable and I want our employees to

01:00:16.240 | have a place there that they know a job is there and you know they don't hate

01:00:19.960 | going to work that's kind of and we'll look for opportunities and try to

01:00:23.400 | continue to grow but I'm not maniacal how do we get to the next step yeah

01:00:29.040 | that's awesome great Dave thanks for being with us this has been an awesome

01:00:31.560 | chat I really enjoyed it, thanks man, take care. See you guys.

01:00:36.680 | [Music]

01:00:43.680 | you

Dave Portnoy | The All-In Interview

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