Everyday Educator - The Heart of Homeschooling: Relationships Over Academics
00:00:00.000 | Welcome, friends, to this episode of the Everyday Educator podcast.
00:00:08.340 | I'm your host, Lisa Bailey, and I'm excited to spend some time today with you as we encourage
00:00:15.000 | one another, learn together, and ponder the delights and challenges that make homeschooling
00:00:21.820 | the adventure of a lifetime.
00:00:23.460 | Now, whether you are just considering this homeschooling possibility or deep into the
00:00:29.980 | daily delight of family learning, I believe you'll enjoy thinking along with us.
00:00:36.160 | But don't forget, although this online community is awesome, you'll find even closer support
00:00:43.540 | in a local CC community.
00:00:45.840 | So go to classicalconversations.com and find a community near you today.
00:00:54.380 | Well, I'm so glad to welcome you guys to this episode of Everyday Educator.
00:01:00.500 | And I have a new friend, new friend to me today with me, Alicia Clark.
00:01:06.800 | Alicia is going to share with us a timely truth that we think it's really important for us
00:01:15.440 | to consider.
00:01:16.560 | When we're thinking about homeschooling, and you may be at the point of your summer that
00:01:21.400 | you have begun to think about how to make this fall different or better or more effective
00:01:29.200 | than last year was.
00:01:30.860 | We've got something we'd love for you to consider that doesn't have anything to do with academics.
00:01:38.740 | Alicia, welcome to Everyday Educator.
00:01:43.860 | And thank you so much for being on the podcast today.
00:01:46.800 | Thank you so much for having me.
00:01:48.960 | I am excited for people to get to know you.
00:01:52.020 | I have enjoyed hearing a little bit of your story as we got to know each other earlier.
00:01:58.560 | And I feel sort of like we're kindred spirits already.
00:02:01.400 | But I want people to get a great introduction to you.
00:02:05.780 | So tell us about your family, a little bit maybe about where you live and how you got involved
00:02:11.460 | with CC.
00:02:12.060 | Sure.
00:02:13.540 | We live in Durham, North Carolina, where my husband is a missions pastor at our church.
00:02:19.100 | And we have three precious kiddos, 15 and 13 year old boys and a newly minted nine year
00:02:26.920 | old daughter who thinks she is quite grown up and has new earrings to show.
00:02:33.540 | Oh, my goodness.
00:02:34.620 | That is a rite of passage.
00:02:36.200 | It absolutely is.
00:02:37.780 | And yes, we've been here the whole time.
00:02:41.420 | I did not set out to homeschool, but the Lord brought quite a few family and friends in my
00:02:49.020 | path who encouraged me to consider it and broke down some of my stereotypes and fears about it.
00:02:56.500 | And yes, long story short, we have now been in CC for 11 years.
00:03:02.740 | Wow.
00:03:04.000 | That is really good.
00:03:05.260 | OK.
00:03:05.540 | There are people out there who are saying, oh, that's my story.
00:03:10.420 | I never intended to do this.
00:03:12.360 | In fact, I frankly can't believe that I'm doing this.
00:03:15.640 | But you're right, Alicia, when you meet somebody that defies the stereotype that you had in your
00:03:23.000 | head, it does break down some of your worries, maybe some of your misgivings, and it makes
00:03:30.920 | it way more possible to consider homeschooling.
00:03:34.700 | So, yeah.
00:03:36.060 | Absolutely.
00:03:36.700 | Absolutely.
00:03:37.740 | That's just that's cool.
00:03:39.780 | And I'm glad I would encourage you listeners to seek out friends who have different experiences
00:03:45.240 | than you so that maybe they will be barrier breakers for you also.
00:03:50.240 | So it sounds like you've got a nine-year-old.
00:03:54.840 | So you're still deeply into the Foundations Essentials years.
00:03:58.640 | But you've also got early challenge students.
00:04:01.980 | You've homeschooled for a lot of years.
00:04:04.180 | So I can ask you this, and you're the great authority on this.
00:04:08.320 | Which is the hardest age to homeschool?
00:04:12.820 | Oh, goodness.
00:04:14.980 | In all honesty, I mean, I'm guessing you would agree that every single stage has its own very
00:04:23.860 | unique challenges, right?
00:04:26.380 | And much like babyhood and toddlerhood, just when you figure out how to deal with a particular
00:04:32.960 | challenge, something changes and you have a new challenge, right?
00:04:35.680 | Yeah.
00:04:36.500 | So I think they're all challenging.
00:04:38.280 | But my answer today, at least, is that I really think that the little years might be the hardest
00:04:47.600 | process simply because you are laying a groundwork during those young years for even being receptive
00:04:57.460 | to being taught.
00:04:58.660 | Oh, wow.
00:05:00.160 | That is a really great insight.
00:05:02.100 | And so I feel like those little years are hard, but so crucial because you're beginning to teach
00:05:11.260 | the tools of learning that we learn about in CC, that you're also kind of teaching some
00:05:16.440 | prerequisites to those in a sense because you're teaching your kids that they are under
00:05:21.980 | an authority who loves them and who can be trusted and who can be followed.
00:05:27.680 | And so I think praying for teachability in our kids and then working towards training them to be
00:05:36.140 | teachable, I think, are some of the hardest things in those young years.
00:05:40.600 | You know what?
00:05:41.380 | That is a really great insight.
00:05:44.580 | A lot of what we do before we start homeschooling, you know, because a lot of people say we really
00:05:53.680 | didn't start homeschooling until our children were in first grade or second grade.
00:05:58.120 | I, my older daughter used to tell people, oh, we never did school until Sarah got into first
00:06:06.360 | grade.
00:06:06.700 | And she's like three years older than Sarah.
00:06:08.920 | And so I would say, please do not go outside in public saying that you never did school
00:06:14.300 | until your sister.
00:06:15.560 | I mean, cause you were like what, eight when we started to homeschool.
00:06:18.860 | But it didn't feel like school to her.
00:06:21.500 | But we all know that the pre work, you're right.
00:06:27.400 | A lot of it has to do with training the heart.
00:06:32.220 | Yes.
00:06:33.000 | I'm beginning to form the character and beginning to build the kind of relationships that will
00:06:41.180 | allow you and your children to learn together.
00:06:45.780 | Yes.
00:06:46.560 | Absolutely.
00:06:48.340 | It's such a big thing.
00:06:50.380 | It is heart training before you can begin academic training.
00:06:55.040 | That's very true.
00:06:56.360 | I think that's really true.
00:06:57.840 | Well, let me ask you this, cause I know the answer for me and I'm wondering if what your
00:07:02.480 | answer would be when you started homeschooling and you told me you started, you guys started
00:07:08.540 | in 2014, back in 2014, when you started homeschooling, did you and your family, did you and your husband
00:07:15.860 | have a family mission statement?
00:07:18.520 | So like, what was your priority as you began this homeschool journey?
00:07:24.240 | That is a great question.
00:07:26.660 | No, we had, we did not have a family mission statement.
00:07:29.800 | We had no clue what that was.
00:07:31.540 | Right.
00:07:33.080 | Who knew what that was?
00:07:34.980 | It was not on our radar at all.
00:07:37.500 | Um, but, um, I think we were already forming, um, the values, you know, the things that we value
00:07:48.820 | that were important to y'all, the goals.
00:07:51.240 | Exactly.
00:07:51.580 | And so I think, you know, as my, as my oldest approached his fifth birthday, um, I was increasingly
00:08:01.300 | feeling like I did not want to relinquish him to this building with a bunch of strangers who
00:08:08.680 | may be wonderful, but I didn't know them.
00:08:11.280 | I didn't know what they were going to teach him.
00:08:12.660 | And I really wanted to have that front row seat to watching him learn and grow.
00:08:17.960 | And so that combined with the encouragement we received from some friends and family, especially
00:08:22.840 | my sister-in-law who came home for Thanksgiving with her foundations guide from CC and said,
00:08:28.460 | Oh, how cool.
00:08:29.240 | Look at what we're learning.
00:08:30.320 | Look at how we use music.
00:08:32.340 | We use songs to learn all these different things.
00:08:34.480 | And we do geography and history.
00:08:36.220 | And it was so much that was very important to me that my kids learn.
00:08:40.400 | And I knew that schools, many schools were struggling to teach those anywhere.
00:08:45.840 | Right.
00:08:46.200 | And so all those things kind of factored into our reasons for giving it a shot that first
00:08:51.380 | year.
00:08:51.740 | Um, but I will also say that somewhere in that first year or two, probably that second year
00:08:57.140 | when we had to register with the state of North Carolina, we had to select a name for our
00:09:02.600 | homeschool and my husband and I prayerfully chose, I think it was my husband who actually
00:09:07.860 | thought of it, but we chose high view Academy because we have a high view of the Lord.
00:09:16.040 | We have a high view of scripture.
00:09:18.660 | It's authoritative in all areas of our life.
00:09:21.900 | And we have a high view of education.
00:09:25.680 | Um, and we also know that from high views, you have a good view of everything else.
00:09:32.140 | And so those were kind of some of our guiding values, I think, as we started.
00:09:37.480 | That's really beautiful.
00:09:38.940 | I think that for a lot of us who started homeschooling, um, when our children were little, we had ideas
00:09:48.480 | of what we wanted our children to learn.
00:09:51.860 | So I don't want anybody to stifle their interest or to say, oh, it's not time to learn about
00:10:03.740 | that.
00:10:04.160 | Or we don't have time to chase that thought.
00:10:07.520 | I wanted them.
00:10:09.060 | My older daughter was very curious about everything.
00:10:12.840 | And she was very, um, verbal about her desires.
00:10:17.260 | And I thought this could be seen as a problem in a classroom.
00:10:22.220 | Um, and I didn't want that to, to be a problem.
00:10:26.020 | So we valued, um, being able to chase curiosity and, and, um, stoke the wonder that was handling
00:10:35.500 | in their little hearts.
00:10:37.120 | Yes, agreed.
00:10:38.200 | And so we didn't have a family mission statement either, but our priority was to keep them loving
00:10:47.620 | the act of learning as long as we could and to, to learn alongside them.
00:10:56.320 | My husband and I both feel like we have teacher hearts.
00:10:59.160 | Yes.
00:10:59.660 | And so explaining things and finding out things together was really important for us.
00:11:06.560 | Um, we also really wanted to know our children.
00:11:14.380 | And to get to know their personalities and to, to be known by them.
00:11:21.520 | My husband's also a pastor.
00:11:23.320 | And so his office has always been in our home.
00:11:26.740 | So the four of us have been home all together forever.
00:11:32.660 | And that was such a blessing that as our daughter got older, we couldn't imagine breaking the fellowship,
00:11:40.160 | you know?
00:11:42.000 | Um, and so that was really important to us.
00:11:45.080 | And it was important to us that our children, um, grow up knowing the Lord in all the things
00:11:53.120 | that they did, not just Sunday school or when we had family devotion, but working on the fruits
00:12:02.480 | of the spirit.
00:12:03.220 | Um, as we lived and it's harder, you know, y'all let's be real.
00:12:07.560 | It's harder to live out the fruits of the spirit with your brothers and sisters than it is with
00:12:12.680 | people that you see once or twice a week at dance lessons or ball practice.
00:12:17.500 | You know, um, the people that you see make mistakes and the people who are crabby, they get up.
00:12:23.760 | So that was important to us.
00:12:25.940 | That was important.
00:12:27.040 | And I've heard you talk about the, the, um, the act of prioritizing, like what do you do
00:12:37.440 | with academics and relationships and finding the right balance with your children between
00:12:46.980 | academic excellence and relationship?
00:12:51.420 | Talk about that a little bit.
00:12:53.120 | How did you learn to find that balance?
00:12:56.180 | That's, that's a really great question.
00:12:59.080 | Um, you know, I don't know if that's something that I've just caught from relationships in my
00:13:06.880 | life or, you know, have just absorbed in church and in family in the past.
00:13:13.580 | I can't pinpoint where it came from, but we were a family.
00:13:17.780 | I'll just say from the get go.
00:13:19.200 | I mean, obviously we value education, um, tremendously.
00:13:23.500 | And my husband and I both have advanced degrees and I come from a family with parents who have
00:13:29.800 | advanced degrees and, um, lots of teachers in the family too.
00:13:33.400 | And we value education, but I think it's, it's always, honestly, this probably goes back to my
00:13:40.400 | mom's own example, to be honest, is that she, I think has more than anybody instilled in me
00:13:47.800 | that the relationships do take priority over the academics.
00:13:53.160 | And so, yes, we may have great goals for our day, for our math lessons and reading lessons and
00:14:00.160 | whatever else we have to tackle.
00:14:01.540 | But the moment that an opportunity to shepherd hearts comes up, that takes priority.
00:14:09.180 | That's really good.
00:14:11.060 | That's really good.
00:14:12.280 | Um, so I'm guessing that there are some days that are more academic and less heart training
00:14:25.240 | and some days that are more heart training and less academic.
00:14:29.520 | Can you predict the ebb and flow?
00:14:32.180 | And is it the same for all of your kids?
00:14:35.420 | And no, no, no, no.
00:14:38.200 | Um, I think that's one of the hardest things to me.
00:14:41.000 | And sometimes one of the most exhausting things is that I feel like life can become triage sometimes,
00:14:46.480 | right?
00:14:46.980 | It's like, you may have plans, but they, they get disrupted.
00:14:51.760 | The moment you set your foot on the floor.
00:14:54.340 | Um, so no, I mean, yeah, no, I feel like, I feel like each kid's needs are different.
00:15:02.720 | Each life stage and age has its own needs and challenges.
00:15:07.620 | Yes, because you've got a younger and then you've got some teenagers and you've got girl and boy.
00:15:12.800 | Is there differences in what they need relationally?
00:15:16.880 | I think so.
00:15:18.560 | Absolutely.
00:15:19.240 | Um, yes, I see a lot of differences between my boys and even how they were at the age that my
00:15:26.460 | daughter is now.
00:15:27.340 | Yeah.
00:15:27.720 | I see a lot of gender differences.
00:15:29.500 | Um, uh, it could also be firstborn girl against mama that creates some challenges too.
00:15:37.440 | Um, and so, yes, I, I think every day, every day is different.
00:15:42.340 | And, and when I say heart issues, I would also say that that doesn't necessarily mean
00:15:49.000 | sin issues, although that's part of it, right?
00:15:51.920 | Absolutely.
00:15:52.320 | Sure.
00:15:52.820 | Some of it is just, it's just dealing with, with struggles, with deficiencies in character,
00:15:59.160 | deficiencies in perspective, limited perspective.
00:16:01.680 | There's just so many, um, uh, what's the right word I'm looking for?
00:16:08.700 | Um, social, emotional needs that come into play.
00:16:14.040 | Um, and it takes wisdom, but, but if it, if it deals with the heart and with relationships,
00:16:20.400 | it takes priority over academics.
00:16:22.340 | So it doesn't matter what my goal is that we're trying to get done by lunch.
00:16:25.660 | Right.
00:16:26.020 | We're going to stop.
00:16:27.200 | I was just telling my daughter that a few times this week.
00:16:29.740 | I'm like, honey, I need you to know, I know that you want to get done with this lesson,
00:16:34.240 | but as often as I need to stop and tend to your heart and to your attitude, we're going
00:16:40.320 | to do that.
00:16:40.740 | Cause that's more important than you learning how to do this math problem.
00:16:44.420 | Well, that is so true, Alicia, because she's going to carry that attitude through her whole
00:16:50.540 | life.
00:16:51.520 | And, you know, until she has to homeschool her own children, she might get to a point
00:16:55.400 | where she doesn't have to do a math lesson every day.
00:16:58.140 | You're so right.
00:16:59.820 | And there are, um, there are absolutely instances where the academics that we're pursuing with
00:17:07.060 | our children during a day uncover a heart issue.
00:17:12.420 | You know, um, I've talked to so many people who say that, um, for whatever reason, math
00:17:20.280 | is the great uncoverer of heart issues, whether that be, um, a heart that's full of anxiety
00:17:28.300 | or anger or frustration or, or, or I already know how to do it.
00:17:36.920 | Mama, I don't want to know how to do that.
00:17:38.780 | Right.
00:17:39.120 | Or, or, well, I know how to do it better than everybody else in my class.
00:17:45.200 | And then that becomes a big head issue, you know?
00:17:48.960 | Yeah.
00:17:49.380 | Um, yes, I definitely think, and I think that it's, it's beautiful.
00:17:56.580 | It's also difficult that, um, homeschooling your kids means that you are always at home
00:18:07.600 | with those little people and you are all rubbing up against each other.
00:18:13.300 | Um, and so, and you know where everybody, everybody knows where everybody else's sore spot is and
00:18:21.620 | our human nature is just to provoke.
00:18:23.920 | And then things come out that need to be, um, that need to be dealt with.
00:18:32.100 | And so living in community, right?
00:18:34.740 | Right.
00:18:35.540 | That's what I was going to say.
00:18:36.280 | Living in community is grace.
00:18:37.740 | For all that to come to the surface.
00:18:39.000 | Yes.
00:18:40.000 | But it is such a wonderful ground.
00:18:42.580 | And it's not, I'm not saying wonderful as in, oh, this is all hearts and flowers and we
00:18:47.140 | love it every day.
00:18:48.180 | It's not easy.
00:18:48.960 | No.
00:18:49.600 | Some, uh, some days I went to bed and thought, okay, we got nothing done that anybody would
00:18:56.720 | check off their box, but we did have a breakthrough in stubbornness or we did at least identify
00:19:06.780 | a problem with mercy.
00:19:09.000 | You know, I had, I had kids that were really, um, proponents of justice.
00:19:16.020 | If it was meeting out justice for somebody else, they were big proponents of grace if it was
00:19:24.480 | coming back towards them.
00:19:25.960 | And that's a huge heart issue, but that's something that, um, as parents who really love our children,
00:19:33.400 | that's where we need to spend a lot of time.
00:19:35.480 | Yeah.
00:19:36.500 | I really think, you know, I mean, we're, we're born sinners.
00:19:40.580 | We've inherited a sin nature from our parents.
00:19:42.840 | And so our, our kids need a savior first and foremost.
00:19:46.940 | And then as we teach and train them even before they have put their trust in Christ and after
00:19:54.700 | when they have entered that sanctification process, it's one of our greatest callings,
00:20:01.020 | I think, and joys really is shepherding their perspective, their understanding of themselves,
00:20:06.980 | their understanding of life situations, their understandings of struggle.
00:20:11.960 | Um, and so I think there's just a lot of, there's just a lot of shepherding involved.
00:20:18.900 | That's really, that's very true.
00:20:22.380 | There's a lot of, that's a good way to see it too, that we are shepherding.
00:20:26.260 | I mean, the Lord is shepherding, shepherding us as parents for that.
00:20:31.140 | Yeah.
00:20:31.540 | Praise him for his, um, his faithfulness and his gentleness and his persistence at pursuing
00:20:37.220 | us.
00:20:37.580 | But we are shepherding our children and we are responsible to the Lord for growing them, um,
00:20:45.720 | toward him, you know, and we're not responsible for saving them.
00:20:51.280 | That's what the Lord himself does, but he gives us our children to bring up in the nurture and
00:20:58.580 | admonition of the Lord to, to, to love them into proximity to the kingdom by showing them
00:21:10.140 | what it means to live in community and learn the fruits of the spirit.
00:21:15.520 | And the home is such a great place to learn that.
00:21:19.040 | Yes.
00:21:19.820 | Yes.
00:21:20.400 | I think you hit on something by mentioning we're loving them in this, this is the way we
00:21:25.380 | love them because, you know, as I was thinking about the prioritizing of heart issues over
00:21:31.300 | academics and relationships over academics, I thought about that verse.
00:21:35.300 | I think it's first Corinthians eight one that says that knowledge puffs up, but love builds
00:21:41.680 | up.
00:21:42.020 | Yes.
00:21:43.060 | And I love that verse.
00:21:45.240 | We actually had an essentials tutor who often said it in our class a few years ago, and, um,
00:21:50.520 | it has stuck with me since then.
00:21:52.880 | But, you know, if we give our kids an excellent education, but neglect loving them and teaching
00:22:01.000 | them to love God and others, then their education is empty.
00:22:05.500 | To what end does it serve?
00:22:07.540 | Um, but love builds up and love itself, the call to love that, that necessitates relationship.
00:22:15.940 | It necessitates prioritizing relationship.
00:22:18.440 | And so, um, you know, I think of first Corinthians 13, we can do all these things, but if we have
00:22:26.120 | not love, you know, we have nothing.
00:22:31.320 | Um, and so that to me is a great reminder that relationships, our relationship with one
00:22:39.160 | another, our kids and our own relationship with God, all of that takes precedence.
00:22:46.500 | Um, you know, seek first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added to you.
00:22:50.360 | That takes precedence over the academics.
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00:24:31.540 | Let's get back to the show.
00:24:33.020 | Absolutely.
00:24:35.540 | And I think you're right when we give priority to guiding the hearts of our children.
00:24:43.380 | And when we shepherd their hearts and sometimes mete out discipline to those hearts, just like
00:24:53.840 | the Lord gives us discipline, then what we create is an atmosphere where, as a family, we can
00:25:01.660 | learn together more easily.
00:25:04.820 | And that's that, you know, I know, I mean, there were days when, you know, there's stuff
00:25:14.160 | bubbling under the surface and we're starting our schoolwork and it is just not, nothing is
00:25:20.380 | flowing easily, not even the stuff that usually comes easily.
00:25:24.520 | And there is tension and there are, you know, side eye glances and tones that are verging on
00:25:32.960 | disrespect and, and the learning is not smooth.
00:25:36.300 | Time for a reset.
00:25:36.520 | Exactly.
00:25:37.800 | And if you don't stop and reset, then the rest of the day is just like walking through quicksand
00:25:47.240 | and you just never, you feel like you're, you, at the end, you, you're tired to the nth degree
00:25:54.620 | and you've not made any progress.
00:25:56.460 | Two things stand out, come to mind when you say that.
00:26:00.780 | One is that old parental advice of begin as you mean to go.
00:26:07.100 | Yes, ma'am.
00:26:08.500 | And secondly, um, an illustration I remember getting from a college professor about jerking
00:26:14.080 | a wagon wheel that back in the days of, you know, the, the trips out West, they had these
00:26:20.380 | wagons, but when they would, you know, a lot of wagons might go over the same path over and
00:26:24.700 | over again and it would develop ruts in the road and you get stuck in a rut and it's really
00:26:29.400 | hard to get out.
00:26:30.120 | You can only get out of that rut by jerking the wheel and turning hard out of it.
00:26:35.240 | And I feel like some days are like that when I can tell that our hearts are in a rut, we've
00:26:40.880 | got to do something dramatic to jerk that wheel.
00:26:43.940 | And I think that can look a lot of different ways.
00:26:46.180 | That may just mean setting down whatever books we're looking at and having a discussion.
00:26:50.180 | Um, it also could mean put down your books.
00:26:53.460 | We're turning on some music and having a dance party right now.
00:26:56.040 | Yes, yes, yes.
00:26:59.240 | Or let's pick up our books and we're going to go outside on a picnic blanket and do school
00:27:03.940 | the rest of the morning outside.
00:27:05.160 | Right.
00:27:06.080 | Just something different.
00:27:07.260 | Right.
00:27:08.120 | And, and that when you do the dance party or when you take it outside, um, it, it shows
00:27:16.100 | your children that a reset is not the same thing as a punishment.
00:27:20.940 | Okay.
00:27:21.900 | So your heart is not at peace or, or my heart is not at peace.
00:27:27.200 | We are not jibing.
00:27:29.080 | We are not in sync with each other.
00:27:31.540 | Um, and so sometimes, and so in that I'm not punishing that I'm resetting that.
00:27:37.680 | I like that, that, that you can reset by doing something funny.
00:27:42.780 | And we did that.
00:27:44.080 | There were times we just packed in the books and said, yep, we're done.
00:27:48.320 | And the kids would be like, what do you mean?
00:27:51.260 | I'm like, we are not accomplishing anything that is productive.
00:27:55.560 | We, we have lost the joy in this and it's more important that we keep the joy than that
00:28:02.280 | we keep the schedule.
00:28:03.780 | So we're going to go do something different to recapture the joy.
00:28:08.180 | And sometimes I think for them, it was like, oh, oh, so this is just something that happened.
00:28:18.520 | And it gave them, I think the example that when things are off the rail like that, you have
00:28:24.680 | to stop.
00:28:25.820 | It's better to stop than to just keep plodding ahead and being unhappy and unproductive.
00:28:32.360 | Right.
00:28:33.040 | And it becomes a wonderful time too, to, to reset in terms of saying, I love you.
00:28:38.700 | I treasure you.
00:28:40.480 | Yes.
00:28:41.680 | Let's celebrate that, you know?
00:28:44.160 | Yes.
00:28:44.640 | And sometimes we know, I know that, um, sometimes you just had to find something that could nurture
00:28:51.180 | the heart, um, while you kept walking through or slogging through the hard stuff.
00:28:57.560 | I, I know I had one of my daughters in challenge a just really got to the point in the geography
00:29:06.240 | that it was such a struggle.
00:29:07.800 | Um, the, the funny names of these African or Asian countries and capitals were just such
00:29:18.580 | a stress to her heart.
00:29:20.220 | And she, she would come at that section of the day with such trepidation.
00:29:26.000 | And so I thought, okay, well, some days we would just do something else.
00:29:31.680 | But the truth was, it was important to forge ahead.
00:29:35.320 | There were important skills for her to build, but I thought, what can we do to make this?
00:29:41.420 | And so we went to the candle store and I let her pick a big old candle of the scent that
00:29:47.120 | she liked.
00:29:47.720 | And I dubbed it the candle of happiness.
00:29:50.960 | And so when we got to the point where we were at a hard part of the day and we were slogging,
00:29:59.060 | I would say, oh, we forgot.
00:30:00.640 | We would light the candle of happiness and it would just, it would make her smile.
00:30:05.420 | And she, I think it just was an expression of mama sees me.
00:30:10.600 | Um, mama loves me enough to hold my hand while I do this hard thing.
00:30:15.680 | But mama also is trying to make it fun.
00:30:18.220 | She's trying to make it better.
00:30:20.040 | And so that was a good, that built into this day.
00:30:24.620 | I can say to her, and she's a young mama of her own now.
00:30:28.660 | She has a three-year-old and a one-year-old and I can call and she'll be down and I'll
00:30:33.620 | say, do you just need the candle of happiness?
00:30:35.500 | Oh, how sweet.
00:30:36.840 | She will laugh.
00:30:38.140 | Um, so yes, I think there are things that we can do just to nurture the loving spirit in
00:30:46.080 | our home, even while we are marching forward on our academic plan.
00:30:51.780 | Um, cause we've talked a lot about, um, keeping relationships as the first priority, even for
00:31:02.400 | those of us who really have high academic standards, but keeping relationships as first priority.
00:31:09.240 | How do you do that?
00:31:11.300 | You've got two young men who are moving into junior high and high school.
00:31:16.460 | How do you keep relationship as the first priority when challenge work gets more demanding or it
00:31:24.680 | takes more time, um, or this stuff is just harder.
00:31:29.100 | It might actually take more effort to accomplish.
00:31:33.040 | That's a wonderful question.
00:31:34.760 | And I would, I would also say not only is the challenge work more difficult for them, but
00:31:41.040 | they are increasingly independent and don't need my help quite as much.
00:31:46.860 | And my younger one needs my help a whole lot.
00:31:50.960 | And so as a result, as we kind of get in a groove and the machine starts running day in and day out,
00:31:57.500 | I have found that it takes a lot more intentionality to build and foster the relationship with my sons
00:32:04.860 | because they largely are independent.
00:32:06.900 | Right.
00:32:07.780 | Right.
00:32:08.680 | Um, I do think, I think that takes some creativity.
00:32:11.820 | I think it takes intentionality.
00:32:13.200 | We try to build rhythms into our day of doing some things together.
00:32:18.160 | Like we have, we have breakfast.
00:32:20.000 | We typically have all of our meals together.
00:32:22.620 | Um, but we start the day with breakfast on our best days.
00:32:27.000 | I, I don't know about you, but we have ideal days and then we have real life, but on, on
00:32:32.700 | our best days, we, we are reading through scripture together.
00:32:36.080 | We're maybe watching world watch.
00:32:38.600 | We like watching that little new show and talking about that and may do wordle or connections,
00:32:43.840 | some little brain trivia thing, um, before we dive into our day.
00:32:48.400 | And then, you know, again, ideally I would check in with them at certain times during
00:32:55.420 | the day, but also I think we foster, um, we just foster good communication, um, and even
00:33:03.720 | build inside jokes.
00:33:05.280 | Like I'll say this, um, I, years and years ago, um, a colleague of mine mentioned, and I
00:33:14.760 | know you'll appreciate this as a former challenge being director, um, but she mentioned that
00:33:19.180 | the middle school years are the cat years because, you know, how cats like to come around on their
00:33:27.680 | own times when you want them to come, they don't want to come.
00:33:31.460 | But if you don't really care if they're there or don't even want them around, that's when
00:33:35.540 | they want to come cuddle.
00:33:37.040 | And, and I started noticing in my middleman, who's 13, I started noticing more of those
00:33:43.460 | tendencies over this past year, especially when we were out in public, he was real, you
00:33:47.540 | know, standoffish, standoffish.
00:33:50.680 | Exactly.
00:33:51.160 | And so I brought it to his attention in a real joking way.
00:33:55.260 | I mean, I was not coming down hard on him at all, but at home I told him, you know what,
00:33:59.400 | you have entered the cat years.
00:34:01.020 | And he was like, and I explained it to him and he just died laughing.
00:34:05.060 | And now we have this ongoing inside joke that when he wants a hug, he'll just come up to
00:34:09.720 | me and quietly meow.
00:34:10.760 | And that lets me know that he wants to hug.
00:34:13.240 | That's awesome.
00:34:15.120 | That's absolutely awesome.
00:34:17.520 | I think that's really good that you've got a code that nobody else will now everybody will,
00:34:23.360 | but nobody else would know your code.
00:34:26.880 | That's a way for them to, to show you, Hey, I'm tender.
00:34:30.420 | I need a little attention without having to out themselves, which teenagers hate to do by
00:34:37.700 | and large.
00:34:38.320 | Yeah.
00:34:39.040 | Yes.
00:34:39.460 | I think that, and then I want to think, you know, this has been something my husband and
00:34:44.280 | I've talked about recently.
00:34:45.200 | We, and y'all, y'all listening may think that we're kind of oddballs in this with 15 and 13
00:34:51.160 | year olds.
00:34:51.520 | We still, we still put our kids together.
00:34:53.480 | I mean, to bed at night.
00:34:54.560 | We still will go in and pray with them and talk with them.
00:34:57.540 | And, but we were having the conversation because we know friends of ours who just send their
00:35:01.640 | kids to bed and we, my husband and I were tossing, you know, at what point do we need to encourage
00:35:06.320 | a little bit more of that?
00:35:07.200 | They've got to learn how to go to bed on their own.
00:35:09.420 | That's a life skill.
00:35:11.160 | But at the same time, I, at least with our kiddos, that is the time that they open up.
00:35:18.140 | They want to talk.
00:35:19.280 | They want it.
00:35:20.740 | And I know full well, they're procrastinating bedtime because I used to do that.
00:35:24.440 | I know.
00:35:25.100 | We know that trick.
00:35:26.180 | It is absolutely precious.
00:35:27.780 | And I think that's a real crucial time for growing those relationships as well.
00:35:33.240 | Leaning into those opportunities and grabbing when we have them.
00:35:37.220 | Absolutely.
00:35:38.220 | Something, there's something about turning off the light, you know, because we did the same
00:35:43.700 | thing, Alicia.
00:35:44.500 | We put our girls to bed for a really long time.
00:35:47.700 | And that was the time that they most wanted to talk.
00:35:51.660 | And, you know, it was also the time that I was most wanting to go to bed.
00:35:55.240 | But turn the light off and they will start ruminating.
00:36:01.220 | And then you find out the hurt that has been lodged in their heart for the day.
00:36:07.500 | Or, and sometimes, you know, you put it there and you didn't, you weren't even aware and they've
00:36:15.520 | not known how to share it until the light goes off and it's at the end of the day.
00:36:21.400 | And we used to ask our girls, I used to ask them three questions.
00:36:26.340 | And I will admit, it started out as staving off the, in 10 minutes, you're going to tell
00:36:33.060 | me that your legs hurt or your stomach hurts or that something.
00:36:37.080 | And so I started out by asking them three questions.
00:36:40.340 | Are you happy in your heart?
00:36:43.200 | So like, are you content?
00:36:45.600 | You know, is there something that has weighed you down?
00:36:48.780 | Are you healthy in your body?
00:36:50.600 | Okay, don't tell me in an hour that you had a headache all day, or, you know, that you
00:36:55.700 | felt like your throat was been scratchy for since supper time.
00:36:58.860 | It's always nighttime.
00:37:00.160 | I know.
00:37:00.960 | I know.
00:37:01.760 | So are you happy in your heart?
00:37:03.260 | Are you healthy in your body?
00:37:04.880 | But are you hopeful in your spirit?
00:37:07.940 | Because some days, some days you are just sad, and you don't exactly know why.
00:37:14.640 | But as long, and you know, I had girls, and one of them was kind of dramatic.
00:37:19.440 | And so one day she told me she had never really been happy ever.
00:37:23.660 | She was like 12 years old.
00:37:25.540 | And I'm like, okay.
00:37:26.340 | And you just have to accept that.
00:37:29.160 | But as long as you can see that tomorrow you might be happy.
00:37:33.980 | So you're hopeful in your spirit.
00:37:36.280 | But you're right.
00:37:38.480 | It's those connects.
00:37:39.280 | So we ask them those questions at bedtime, because that was the time sometimes that we could connect
00:37:45.000 | on the heart level.
00:37:46.140 | And that was the most teachable moment to say, you know, I noticed that you spoke really sharply
00:37:52.340 | to your sister.
00:37:53.400 | Or I noticed that you said something kind of snarky about your best friend.
00:37:58.960 | Is there something going on that you'd like to talk about?
00:38:02.700 | I was going to ask you, are there signs for your kids that a heart issue might be at the root
00:38:10.820 | of a problem, even, you know, sometimes even might be the root of an academic struggle?
00:38:18.100 | Absolutely.
00:38:19.520 | So what are some of the signs that you see?
00:38:24.600 | Negative emotions of any kind.
00:38:28.180 | Tears.
00:38:29.580 | Tears are quick, quick, obvious.
00:38:33.820 | There is something awry here.
00:38:35.780 | And we need to pause and find the root of this.
00:38:40.340 | sullen looks.
00:38:41.780 | This Dane.
00:38:44.040 | Oh, yes.
00:38:45.820 | Yes.
00:38:46.560 | Just the attitudes, you know, all of those are clues that there's either a sin that I'm
00:38:56.860 | causing to be uncovered in them, and they don't like that.
00:39:01.840 | And they're trying to, yeah.
00:39:03.100 | Or, you know, it may not be a sin issue for them.
00:39:07.360 | Like, sometimes with, especially my youngers, when they're younger, they, you know, it's
00:39:13.760 | a pride issue.
00:39:14.460 | They don't, it's so funny.
00:39:15.700 | I'm three for three now on kids who were greatly offended at the fact that they didn't already
00:39:22.840 | know how to do what I was teaching them to do.
00:39:25.180 | Oh, my word.
00:39:25.960 | Yes.
00:39:26.600 | Do you know what I mean?
00:39:28.040 | This is so true.
00:39:28.320 | Yes.
00:39:28.960 | I'm like, honey, you, I don't expect you to already know how to do this.
00:39:33.020 | Right.
00:39:33.140 | I'm going to walk you through it and show you how.
00:39:36.460 | And you're going to practice and guess what?
00:39:38.600 | You're going to mess up and that's okay.
00:39:40.280 | You're going to be bad at it before you're good at it.
00:39:43.440 | And that's how it's supposed to be.
00:39:45.300 | Yes.
00:39:45.900 | And especially with my youngest, I'm having to say some of those same things on a daily
00:39:50.340 | basis, which is exhausting.
00:39:52.720 | But I know that she will get it because her brothers finally did.
00:39:55.600 | Right.
00:39:55.980 | Right.
00:39:56.420 | Right.
00:39:56.780 | And I'm getting a little sidetracked.
00:39:58.180 | I think sometimes it's a pride issue.
00:40:00.000 | Sometimes it's a, I don't want to be led.
00:40:01.740 | I already know how to do this or I can figure it out on my own.
00:40:04.180 | I do not want your leadership right now, mom.
00:40:07.040 | I don't want to trust you.
00:40:08.040 | And so that may be a hard issue to address, but sometimes it's fear of failure.
00:40:13.680 | It's, oh no, I'm going to, I'm, I'm not going to measure up to your standards, mom.
00:40:19.520 | And so either way.
00:40:21.820 | What if I don't ask?
00:40:22.480 | What if I really, what if I really struggle with this?
00:40:25.780 | What if the other kids in the family got it right away?
00:40:29.660 | Yes.
00:40:30.480 | That I don't get it right away.
00:40:32.500 | What if I just don't understand?
00:40:34.640 | Yeah.
00:40:35.700 | Yes.
00:40:36.080 | And I think that goes back to what I was saying about how we get to shepherd their perspectives,
00:40:40.880 | right?
00:40:41.340 | Our perspective on a situation makes all the difference in the world.
00:40:45.280 | And so if you understand what, you know, what this little piece of education is doing,
00:40:52.020 | what are we aiming for?
00:40:53.340 | And, you know, is a mistake a bad thing right now?
00:40:59.280 | No, it's part of the process.
00:41:00.660 | It's how you learn.
00:41:02.120 | You know, so I think shaping and shepherding those perspectives is just a crucial part.
00:41:07.660 | Yes.
00:41:08.500 | You are so right.
00:41:09.800 | I think that a lot of times we inadvertently pass on to our children the idea that they have
00:41:16.180 | to get it quickly and they have to get it perfectly.
00:41:21.900 | And then we'll move on.
00:41:23.740 | But really what we want them to do is make a, I finally told one of my daughters about something
00:41:31.320 | that she was working on.
00:41:32.380 | I said, my goal is for you to make all of the mistakes possible.
00:41:38.400 | Nice.
00:41:38.880 | Make all the mistakes possible.
00:41:41.480 | Right.
00:41:42.120 | Make all of the mistakes possible.
00:41:43.800 | But then all that will be left is learning to do it the right way.
00:41:48.780 | You will know all of the mistakes.
00:41:52.180 | And then we'll just slowly work toward getting better and better.
00:41:55.920 | And she, her little shoulders relaxed a little bit.
00:41:59.260 | It is hard, especially if one of your children was really good at something.
00:42:03.480 | It, you know, if you're a mom of multiples, you already know this.
00:42:06.940 | But if you're just, if you've only schooled one child and you have others coming behind
00:42:11.940 | them, whatever one excelled at, the next one will not excel at that thing or will not, they
00:42:19.340 | won't have the same learning style.
00:42:20.820 | So you'll think you were the best reading teacher in the world for your first child.
00:42:25.440 | And then you try that very same thing on your second child.
00:42:28.400 | And it's like, you're speaking a foreign language to them.
00:42:31.180 | Yes.
00:42:31.920 | Yes.
00:42:32.840 | But it's okay.
00:42:33.660 | We, it is okay for us all to learn in our own way.
00:42:38.180 | We need to help our children.
00:42:40.160 | One of the best gifts that we can give them is self-acceptance.
00:42:43.600 | I think not measuring our worth by somebody else's performance.
00:42:50.220 | So true.
00:42:52.100 | That makes me think of C.S.
00:42:53.440 | Lewis in Mere Christianity, who talks about how pride is essentially comparative.
00:42:58.080 | It's always looking at how do I measure up against somebody else?
00:43:02.120 | And, um, no, he's created us each one uniquely.
00:43:05.780 | And we have our own gifts and abilities and limitations.
00:43:08.500 | And it's okay to celebrate somebody else's strength and for you to be strong in other
00:43:13.860 | areas.
00:43:14.340 | It takes nothing away from you for somebody else to be wonderful at something.
00:43:19.140 | Yes.
00:43:19.620 | Yes.
00:43:20.380 | And that's a hard issue.
00:43:21.580 | That's one of the hard issues that we're talking about.
00:43:23.900 | And that, as parents, if we address those kinds of things in the home with our children as
00:43:31.640 | they grow, then what we shepherd eventually are adults who know how to love their world
00:43:39.800 | well.
00:43:40.360 | Yes.
00:43:41.560 | And that is so much more important than being able, you know, to find the square root of
00:43:47.780 | negative one.
00:43:48.540 | Right.
00:43:49.320 | I'm just saying.
00:43:49.800 | Right.
00:43:50.480 | Yes, absolutely.
00:43:51.920 | You know, one other, one other thing I would add to, um, to, as we help shape perspectives in
00:43:59.120 | our kids is I think there's a just fantastic tool in read-alouds.
00:44:05.340 | Oh, yes.
00:44:06.480 | I love that.
00:44:07.580 | Picture book biographies or biographical novels that tell stories of people who messed up a lot
00:44:16.380 | and continue to try and learn from those mistakes.
00:44:20.560 | And I think stories can really help shepherd our kids' attitudes and perspectives, too.
00:44:26.680 | I do, too.
00:44:27.680 | They are great for building the moral imagination, you know, for helping children and teenagers
00:44:38.240 | and grownups figure out what we ought to do in situations which, God willing, we won't ever
00:44:46.900 | face.
00:44:47.500 | Yeah.
00:44:47.980 | But it develops our empathy.
00:44:50.880 | It develops, um, our sense of honor, our sense of bravery, our sense of perseverance.
00:45:01.440 | And it gives, it shows us what noble character not just looks like, but how it acts.
00:45:08.820 | And so I think that's really good.
00:45:12.320 | And I love how the challenge books have been selected very intentionally to meet those very aims.
00:45:18.540 | I'm glad that you brought that up because that is really true.
00:45:21.700 | Okay.
00:45:22.320 | I, I noticed, I mean, I just started looking at our time thinking, oh my, I'm enjoying this
00:45:27.760 | so much that we need to bring it to an end to a close for this time.
00:45:32.360 | Anyway, I want to give you the chance.
00:45:34.760 | I want to ask you this one last question.
00:45:37.060 | What to you is the most important message that parents send to their children?
00:45:47.400 | What, what's the most important message or lesson that we pass on to our kids?
00:45:56.500 | The quick, short answer for me is simply the gospel.
00:46:00.740 | Um, but by gospel, I mean the, the whole worldview that understands that the God of the universe
00:46:12.720 | who created all things, created each one of us in his image, we are created with value,
00:46:21.840 | with worth, with dignity.
00:46:23.960 | Um, and he made us for relationship with him and with one another, but sin has broken both
00:46:33.340 | of those relationships and we need a savior and praise God.
00:46:37.940 | He has met our greatest need in sending us the savior, his son, Jesus, to pay the penalty that
00:46:44.340 | our sins deserved.
00:46:45.300 | And so in him, we are forgiven.
00:46:48.300 | We are welcomed into his eternal family and we're redeemed.
00:46:53.400 | We are, we are given his spirit that enables us to obey his call to be like Jesus and to
00:46:59.140 | love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love one another as we love
00:47:04.980 | ourselves.
00:47:05.400 | We can't do that apart from his saving work in our hearts.
00:47:08.920 | And we can't do it apart from his spirit enabling us.
00:47:13.300 | Um, and so to me, that, that's the message because that's, what's going to make sense of
00:47:17.520 | everything else in our lives and equip us no matter what our children grow up and do, whether
00:47:24.100 | they're architects or professors or doctors or teachers or diplomats.
00:47:31.020 | If they know the Lord and understand what he has done for them, then they can do whatever
00:47:37.680 | they do to his glory and receive great blessing in the process and just the joy of being close
00:47:44.340 | to him.
00:47:44.660 | So that's the message that I think our children need more than anything else.
00:47:48.480 | That's beautiful.
00:47:49.720 | That, that message fits them to be citizens of this world, but citizens of heaven.
00:47:55.660 | Yes.
00:47:56.820 | And that, and that my friends is how you shepherd your child's heart.
00:48:02.280 | And that is how you do heart first homeschooling.
00:48:07.420 | Alicia, thank you so much for being with me today and sharing your insights and your experiences
00:48:13.080 | and your stories.
00:48:14.140 | It has been a blessing.
00:48:15.820 | I appreciate you.
00:48:17.300 | It's been such a joy.
00:48:18.960 | Thanks for having me here.
00:48:20.020 | All right, listeners, we will see you next week.
00:48:23.120 | Bye-bye.
00:48:24.140 | Bye-bye.
00:48:25.140 | Bye-bye.