Welcome, friends, to this episode of the Everyday Educator podcast. I'm your host, Lisa Bailey, and I'm excited to spend some time today with you as we encourage one another, learn together, and ponder the delights and challenges that make homeschooling the adventure of a lifetime. Now, whether you are just considering this homeschooling possibility or deep into the daily delight of family learning, I believe you'll enjoy thinking along with us.

But don't forget, although this online community is awesome, you'll find even closer support in a local CC community. So go to classicalconversations.com and find a community near you today. Well, I'm so glad to welcome you guys to this episode of Everyday Educator. And I have a new friend, new friend to me today with me, Alicia Clark.

Alicia is going to share with us a timely truth that we think it's really important for us to consider. When we're thinking about homeschooling, and you may be at the point of your summer that you have begun to think about how to make this fall different or better or more effective than last year was.

We've got something we'd love for you to consider that doesn't have anything to do with academics. Alicia, welcome to Everyday Educator. And thank you so much for being on the podcast today. Thank you so much for having me. I am excited for people to get to know you. I have enjoyed hearing a little bit of your story as we got to know each other earlier.

And I feel sort of like we're kindred spirits already. But I want people to get a great introduction to you. So tell us about your family, a little bit maybe about where you live and how you got involved with CC. Sure. We live in Durham, North Carolina, where my husband is a missions pastor at our church.

And we have three precious kiddos, 15 and 13 year old boys and a newly minted nine year old daughter who thinks she is quite grown up and has new earrings to show. Oh, my goodness. That is a rite of passage. It absolutely is. And yes, we've been here the whole time.

I did not set out to homeschool, but the Lord brought quite a few family and friends in my path who encouraged me to consider it and broke down some of my stereotypes and fears about it. And yes, long story short, we have now been in CC for 11 years.

Wow. That is really good. OK. There are people out there who are saying, oh, that's my story. I never intended to do this. In fact, I frankly can't believe that I'm doing this. But you're right, Alicia, when you meet somebody that defies the stereotype that you had in your head, it does break down some of your worries, maybe some of your misgivings, and it makes it way more possible to consider homeschooling.

So, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's just that's cool. And I'm glad I would encourage you listeners to seek out friends who have different experiences than you so that maybe they will be barrier breakers for you also. So it sounds like you've got a nine-year-old. So you're still deeply into the Foundations Essentials years.

But you've also got early challenge students. You've homeschooled for a lot of years. So I can ask you this, and you're the great authority on this. Which is the hardest age to homeschool? Oh, goodness. In all honesty, I mean, I'm guessing you would agree that every single stage has its own very unique challenges, right?

And much like babyhood and toddlerhood, just when you figure out how to deal with a particular challenge, something changes and you have a new challenge, right? Yeah. So I think they're all challenging. But my answer today, at least, is that I really think that the little years might be the hardest process simply because you are laying a groundwork during those young years for even being receptive to being taught.

Oh, wow. That is a really great insight. And so I feel like those little years are hard, but so crucial because you're beginning to teach the tools of learning that we learn about in CC, that you're also kind of teaching some prerequisites to those in a sense because you're teaching your kids that they are under an authority who loves them and who can be trusted and who can be followed.

And so I think praying for teachability in our kids and then working towards training them to be teachable, I think, are some of the hardest things in those young years. You know what? That is a really great insight. A lot of what we do before we start homeschooling, you know, because a lot of people say we really didn't start homeschooling until our children were in first grade or second grade.

I, my older daughter used to tell people, oh, we never did school until Sarah got into first grade. And she's like three years older than Sarah. And so I would say, please do not go outside in public saying that you never did school until your sister. I mean, cause you were like what, eight when we started to homeschool.

But it didn't feel like school to her. But we all know that the pre work, you're right. A lot of it has to do with training the heart. Yes. I'm beginning to form the character and beginning to build the kind of relationships that will allow you and your children to learn together.

Yes. Absolutely. It's such a big thing. It is heart training before you can begin academic training. That's very true. I think that's really true. Well, let me ask you this, cause I know the answer for me and I'm wondering if what your answer would be when you started homeschooling and you told me you started, you guys started in 2014, back in 2014, when you started homeschooling, did you and your family, did you and your husband have a family mission statement?

So like, what was your priority as you began this homeschool journey? That is a great question. No, we had, we did not have a family mission statement. We had no clue what that was. Right. Who knew what that was? It was not on our radar at all. Um, but, um, I think we were already forming, um, the values, you know, the things that we value that were important to y'all, the goals.

Exactly. And so I think, you know, as my, as my oldest approached his fifth birthday, um, I was increasingly feeling like I did not want to relinquish him to this building with a bunch of strangers who may be wonderful, but I didn't know them. I didn't know what they were going to teach him.

And I really wanted to have that front row seat to watching him learn and grow. And so that combined with the encouragement we received from some friends and family, especially my sister-in-law who came home for Thanksgiving with her foundations guide from CC and said, Oh, how cool. Look at what we're learning.

Look at how we use music. We use songs to learn all these different things. And we do geography and history. And it was so much that was very important to me that my kids learn. And I knew that schools, many schools were struggling to teach those anywhere. Right. And so all those things kind of factored into our reasons for giving it a shot that first year.

Um, but I will also say that somewhere in that first year or two, probably that second year when we had to register with the state of North Carolina, we had to select a name for our homeschool and my husband and I prayerfully chose, I think it was my husband who actually thought of it, but we chose high view Academy because we have a high view of the Lord.

We have a high view of scripture. It's authoritative in all areas of our life. And we have a high view of education. Um, and we also know that from high views, you have a good view of everything else. And so those were kind of some of our guiding values, I think, as we started.

That's really beautiful. I think that for a lot of us who started homeschooling, um, when our children were little, we had ideas of what we wanted our children to learn. So I don't want anybody to stifle their interest or to say, oh, it's not time to learn about that.

Or we don't have time to chase that thought. I wanted them. My older daughter was very curious about everything. And she was very, um, verbal about her desires. And I thought this could be seen as a problem in a classroom. Um, and I didn't want that to, to be a problem.

So we valued, um, being able to chase curiosity and, and, um, stoke the wonder that was handling in their little hearts. Yes, agreed. And so we didn't have a family mission statement either, but our priority was to keep them loving the act of learning as long as we could and to, to learn alongside them.

My husband and I both feel like we have teacher hearts. Yes. And so explaining things and finding out things together was really important for us. Um, we also really wanted to know our children. And to get to know their personalities and to, to be known by them. My husband's also a pastor.

And so his office has always been in our home. So the four of us have been home all together forever. And that was such a blessing that as our daughter got older, we couldn't imagine breaking the fellowship, you know? Um, and so that was really important to us. And it was important to us that our children, um, grow up knowing the Lord in all the things that they did, not just Sunday school or when we had family devotion, but working on the fruits of the spirit.

Um, as we lived and it's harder, you know, y'all let's be real. It's harder to live out the fruits of the spirit with your brothers and sisters than it is with people that you see once or twice a week at dance lessons or ball practice. You know, um, the people that you see make mistakes and the people who are crabby, they get up.

So that was important to us. That was important. And I've heard you talk about the, the, um, the act of prioritizing, like what do you do with academics and relationships and finding the right balance with your children between academic excellence and relationship? Talk about that a little bit. How did you learn to find that balance?

That's, that's a really great question. Um, you know, I don't know if that's something that I've just caught from relationships in my life or, you know, have just absorbed in church and in family in the past. I can't pinpoint where it came from, but we were a family. I'll just say from the get go.

I mean, obviously we value education, um, tremendously. And my husband and I both have advanced degrees and I come from a family with parents who have advanced degrees and, um, lots of teachers in the family too. And we value education, but I think it's, it's always, honestly, this probably goes back to my mom's own example, to be honest, is that she, I think has more than anybody instilled in me that the relationships do take priority over the academics.

And so, yes, we may have great goals for our day, for our math lessons and reading lessons and whatever else we have to tackle. But the moment that an opportunity to shepherd hearts comes up, that takes priority. That's really good. That's really good. Um, so I'm guessing that there are some days that are more academic and less heart training and some days that are more heart training and less academic.

Can you predict the ebb and flow? And is it the same for all of your kids? And no, no, no, no. Um, I think that's one of the hardest things to me. And sometimes one of the most exhausting things is that I feel like life can become triage sometimes, right?

It's like, you may have plans, but they, they get disrupted. The moment you set your foot on the floor. Um, so no, I mean, yeah, no, I feel like, I feel like each kid's needs are different. Each life stage and age has its own needs and challenges. Yes, because you've got a younger and then you've got some teenagers and you've got girl and boy.

Is there differences in what they need relationally? I think so. Absolutely. Um, yes, I see a lot of differences between my boys and even how they were at the age that my daughter is now. Yeah. I see a lot of gender differences. Um, uh, it could also be firstborn girl against mama that creates some challenges too.

Um, and so, yes, I, I think every day, every day is different. And, and when I say heart issues, I would also say that that doesn't necessarily mean sin issues, although that's part of it, right? Absolutely. Sure. Some of it is just, it's just dealing with, with struggles, with deficiencies in character, deficiencies in perspective, limited perspective.

There's just so many, um, uh, what's the right word I'm looking for? Um, social, emotional needs that come into play. Um, and it takes wisdom, but, but if it, if it deals with the heart and with relationships, it takes priority over academics. So it doesn't matter what my goal is that we're trying to get done by lunch.

Right. We're going to stop. I was just telling my daughter that a few times this week. I'm like, honey, I need you to know, I know that you want to get done with this lesson, but as often as I need to stop and tend to your heart and to your attitude, we're going to do that.

Cause that's more important than you learning how to do this math problem. Well, that is so true, Alicia, because she's going to carry that attitude through her whole life. And, you know, until she has to homeschool her own children, she might get to a point where she doesn't have to do a math lesson every day.

You're so right. And there are, um, there are absolutely instances where the academics that we're pursuing with our children during a day uncover a heart issue. You know, um, I've talked to so many people who say that, um, for whatever reason, math is the great uncoverer of heart issues, whether that be, um, a heart that's full of anxiety or anger or frustration or, or, or I already know how to do it.

Mama, I don't want to know how to do that. Right. Or, or, well, I know how to do it better than everybody else in my class. And then that becomes a big head issue, you know? Yeah. Um, yes, I definitely think, and I think that it's, it's beautiful. It's also difficult that, um, homeschooling your kids means that you are always at home with those little people and you are all rubbing up against each other.

Um, and so, and you know where everybody, everybody knows where everybody else's sore spot is and our human nature is just to provoke. And then things come out that need to be, um, that need to be dealt with. And so living in community, right? Right. That's what I was going to say.

Living in community is grace. For all that to come to the surface. Yes. But it is such a wonderful ground. And it's not, I'm not saying wonderful as in, oh, this is all hearts and flowers and we love it every day. It's not easy. No. Some, uh, some days I went to bed and thought, okay, we got nothing done that anybody would check off their box, but we did have a breakthrough in stubbornness or we did at least identify a problem with mercy.

You know, I had, I had kids that were really, um, proponents of justice. If it was meeting out justice for somebody else, they were big proponents of grace if it was coming back towards them. And that's a huge heart issue, but that's something that, um, as parents who really love our children, that's where we need to spend a lot of time.

Yeah. I really think, you know, I mean, we're, we're born sinners. We've inherited a sin nature from our parents. And so our, our kids need a savior first and foremost. And then as we teach and train them even before they have put their trust in Christ and after when they have entered that sanctification process, it's one of our greatest callings, I think, and joys really is shepherding their perspective, their understanding of themselves, their understanding of life situations, their understandings of struggle.

Um, and so I think there's just a lot of, there's just a lot of shepherding involved. That's really, that's very true. There's a lot of, that's a good way to see it too, that we are shepherding. I mean, the Lord is shepherding, shepherding us as parents for that. Yeah.

Praise him for his, um, his faithfulness and his gentleness and his persistence at pursuing us. But we are shepherding our children and we are responsible to the Lord for growing them, um, toward him, you know, and we're not responsible for saving them. That's what the Lord himself does, but he gives us our children to bring up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord to, to, to love them into proximity to the kingdom by showing them what it means to live in community and learn the fruits of the spirit.

And the home is such a great place to learn that. Yes. Yes. I think you hit on something by mentioning we're loving them in this, this is the way we love them because, you know, as I was thinking about the prioritizing of heart issues over academics and relationships over academics, I thought about that verse.

I think it's first Corinthians eight one that says that knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. Yes. And I love that verse. We actually had an essentials tutor who often said it in our class a few years ago, and, um, it has stuck with me since then. But, you know, if we give our kids an excellent education, but neglect loving them and teaching them to love God and others, then their education is empty.

To what end does it serve? Um, but love builds up and love itself, the call to love that, that necessitates relationship. It necessitates prioritizing relationship. And so, um, you know, I think of first Corinthians 13, we can do all these things, but if we have not love, you know, we have nothing.

Um, and so that to me is a great reminder that relationships, our relationship with one another, our kids and our own relationship with God, all of that takes precedence. Um, you know, seek first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added to you. That takes precedence over the academics.

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Judson has provided a number of different scholarships to help with tuition costs. If you want to find out more about Judson College and see if it's right for you, go to judsoncollege.com forward slash distinctives forward slash. Let's get back to the show. Absolutely. And I think you're right when we give priority to guiding the hearts of our children.

And when we shepherd their hearts and sometimes mete out discipline to those hearts, just like the Lord gives us discipline, then what we create is an atmosphere where, as a family, we can learn together more easily. And that's that, you know, I know, I mean, there were days when, you know, there's stuff bubbling under the surface and we're starting our schoolwork and it is just not, nothing is flowing easily, not even the stuff that usually comes easily.

And there is tension and there are, you know, side eye glances and tones that are verging on disrespect and, and the learning is not smooth. Time for a reset. Exactly. And if you don't stop and reset, then the rest of the day is just like walking through quicksand and you just never, you feel like you're, you, at the end, you, you're tired to the nth degree and you've not made any progress.

Two things stand out, come to mind when you say that. One is that old parental advice of begin as you mean to go. Yes, ma'am. And secondly, um, an illustration I remember getting from a college professor about jerking a wagon wheel that back in the days of, you know, the, the trips out West, they had these wagons, but when they would, you know, a lot of wagons might go over the same path over and over again and it would develop ruts in the road and you get stuck in a rut and it's really hard to get out.

You can only get out of that rut by jerking the wheel and turning hard out of it. And I feel like some days are like that when I can tell that our hearts are in a rut, we've got to do something dramatic to jerk that wheel. And I think that can look a lot of different ways.

That may just mean setting down whatever books we're looking at and having a discussion. Um, it also could mean put down your books. We're turning on some music and having a dance party right now. Yes, yes, yes. Or let's pick up our books and we're going to go outside on a picnic blanket and do school the rest of the morning outside.

Right. Just something different. Right. And, and that when you do the dance party or when you take it outside, um, it, it shows your children that a reset is not the same thing as a punishment. Okay. So your heart is not at peace or, or my heart is not at peace.

We are not jibing. We are not in sync with each other. Um, and so sometimes, and so in that I'm not punishing that I'm resetting that. I like that, that, that you can reset by doing something funny. And we did that. There were times we just packed in the books and said, yep, we're done.

And the kids would be like, what do you mean? I'm like, we are not accomplishing anything that is productive. We, we have lost the joy in this and it's more important that we keep the joy than that we keep the schedule. So we're going to go do something different to recapture the joy.

And sometimes I think for them, it was like, oh, oh, so this is just something that happened. And it gave them, I think the example that when things are off the rail like that, you have to stop. It's better to stop than to just keep plodding ahead and being unhappy and unproductive.

Right. And it becomes a wonderful time too, to, to reset in terms of saying, I love you. I treasure you. Yes. Let's celebrate that, you know? Yes. And sometimes we know, I know that, um, sometimes you just had to find something that could nurture the heart, um, while you kept walking through or slogging through the hard stuff.

I, I know I had one of my daughters in challenge a just really got to the point in the geography that it was such a struggle. Um, the, the funny names of these African or Asian countries and capitals were just such a stress to her heart. And she, she would come at that section of the day with such trepidation.

And so I thought, okay, well, some days we would just do something else. But the truth was, it was important to forge ahead. There were important skills for her to build, but I thought, what can we do to make this? And so we went to the candle store and I let her pick a big old candle of the scent that she liked.

And I dubbed it the candle of happiness. And so when we got to the point where we were at a hard part of the day and we were slogging, I would say, oh, we forgot. We would light the candle of happiness and it would just, it would make her smile.

And she, I think it just was an expression of mama sees me. Um, mama loves me enough to hold my hand while I do this hard thing. But mama also is trying to make it fun. She's trying to make it better. And so that was a good, that built into this day.

I can say to her, and she's a young mama of her own now. She has a three-year-old and a one-year-old and I can call and she'll be down and I'll say, do you just need the candle of happiness? Oh, how sweet. She will laugh. Um, so yes, I think there are things that we can do just to nurture the loving spirit in our home, even while we are marching forward on our academic plan.

Um, cause we've talked a lot about, um, keeping relationships as the first priority, even for those of us who really have high academic standards, but keeping relationships as first priority. How do you do that? You've got two young men who are moving into junior high and high school. How do you keep relationship as the first priority when challenge work gets more demanding or it takes more time, um, or this stuff is just harder.

It might actually take more effort to accomplish. That's a wonderful question. And I would, I would also say not only is the challenge work more difficult for them, but they are increasingly independent and don't need my help quite as much. And my younger one needs my help a whole lot.

And so as a result, as we kind of get in a groove and the machine starts running day in and day out, I have found that it takes a lot more intentionality to build and foster the relationship with my sons because they largely are independent. Right. Right. Um, I do think, I think that takes some creativity.

I think it takes intentionality. We try to build rhythms into our day of doing some things together. Like we have, we have breakfast. We typically have all of our meals together. Um, but we start the day with breakfast on our best days. I, I don't know about you, but we have ideal days and then we have real life, but on, on our best days, we, we are reading through scripture together.

We're maybe watching world watch. We like watching that little new show and talking about that and may do wordle or connections, some little brain trivia thing, um, before we dive into our day. And then, you know, again, ideally I would check in with them at certain times during the day, but also I think we foster, um, we just foster good communication, um, and even build inside jokes.

Like I'll say this, um, I, years and years ago, um, a colleague of mine mentioned, and I know you'll appreciate this as a former challenge being director, um, but she mentioned that the middle school years are the cat years because, you know, how cats like to come around on their own times when you want them to come, they don't want to come.

But if you don't really care if they're there or don't even want them around, that's when they want to come cuddle. And, and I started noticing in my middleman, who's 13, I started noticing more of those tendencies over this past year, especially when we were out in public, he was real, you know, standoffish, standoffish.

Exactly. And so I brought it to his attention in a real joking way. I mean, I was not coming down hard on him at all, but at home I told him, you know what, you have entered the cat years. And he was like, and I explained it to him and he just died laughing.

And now we have this ongoing inside joke that when he wants a hug, he'll just come up to me and quietly meow. And that lets me know that he wants to hug. That's awesome. That's absolutely awesome. I think that's really good that you've got a code that nobody else will now everybody will, but nobody else would know your code.

That's a way for them to, to show you, Hey, I'm tender. I need a little attention without having to out themselves, which teenagers hate to do by and large. Yeah. Yes. I think that, and then I want to think, you know, this has been something my husband and I've talked about recently.

We, and y'all, y'all listening may think that we're kind of oddballs in this with 15 and 13 year olds. We still, we still put our kids together. I mean, to bed at night. We still will go in and pray with them and talk with them. And, but we were having the conversation because we know friends of ours who just send their kids to bed and we, my husband and I were tossing, you know, at what point do we need to encourage a little bit more of that?

They've got to learn how to go to bed on their own. That's a life skill. But at the same time, I, at least with our kiddos, that is the time that they open up. They want to talk. They want it. And I know full well, they're procrastinating bedtime because I used to do that.

I know. We know that trick. It is absolutely precious. And I think that's a real crucial time for growing those relationships as well. Leaning into those opportunities and grabbing when we have them. Absolutely. Something, there's something about turning off the light, you know, because we did the same thing, Alicia.

We put our girls to bed for a really long time. And that was the time that they most wanted to talk. And, you know, it was also the time that I was most wanting to go to bed. But turn the light off and they will start ruminating. And then you find out the hurt that has been lodged in their heart for the day.

Or, and sometimes, you know, you put it there and you didn't, you weren't even aware and they've not known how to share it until the light goes off and it's at the end of the day. And we used to ask our girls, I used to ask them three questions.

And I will admit, it started out as staving off the, in 10 minutes, you're going to tell me that your legs hurt or your stomach hurts or that something. And so I started out by asking them three questions. Are you happy in your heart? So like, are you content?

You know, is there something that has weighed you down? Are you healthy in your body? Okay, don't tell me in an hour that you had a headache all day, or, you know, that you felt like your throat was been scratchy for since supper time. It's always nighttime. I know.

I know. So are you happy in your heart? Are you healthy in your body? But are you hopeful in your spirit? Because some days, some days you are just sad, and you don't exactly know why. But as long, and you know, I had girls, and one of them was kind of dramatic.

And so one day she told me she had never really been happy ever. She was like 12 years old. And I'm like, okay. And you just have to accept that. But as long as you can see that tomorrow you might be happy. So you're hopeful in your spirit. But you're right.

It's those connects. So we ask them those questions at bedtime, because that was the time sometimes that we could connect on the heart level. And that was the most teachable moment to say, you know, I noticed that you spoke really sharply to your sister. Or I noticed that you said something kind of snarky about your best friend.

Is there something going on that you'd like to talk about? I was going to ask you, are there signs for your kids that a heart issue might be at the root of a problem, even, you know, sometimes even might be the root of an academic struggle? Absolutely. So what are some of the signs that you see?

Negative emotions of any kind. Tears. Tears are quick, quick, obvious. There is something awry here. And we need to pause and find the root of this. sullen looks. This Dane. Oh, yes. Yes. Just the attitudes, you know, all of those are clues that there's either a sin that I'm causing to be uncovered in them, and they don't like that.

And they're trying to, yeah. Or, you know, it may not be a sin issue for them. Like, sometimes with, especially my youngers, when they're younger, they, you know, it's a pride issue. They don't, it's so funny. I'm three for three now on kids who were greatly offended at the fact that they didn't already know how to do what I was teaching them to do.

Oh, my word. Yes. Do you know what I mean? This is so true. Yes. I'm like, honey, you, I don't expect you to already know how to do this. Right. I'm going to walk you through it and show you how. And you're going to practice and guess what? You're going to mess up and that's okay.

You're going to be bad at it before you're good at it. And that's how it's supposed to be. Yes. And especially with my youngest, I'm having to say some of those same things on a daily basis, which is exhausting. But I know that she will get it because her brothers finally did.

Right. Right. Right. And I'm getting a little sidetracked. I think sometimes it's a pride issue. Sometimes it's a, I don't want to be led. I already know how to do this or I can figure it out on my own. I do not want your leadership right now, mom. I don't want to trust you.

And so that may be a hard issue to address, but sometimes it's fear of failure. It's, oh no, I'm going to, I'm, I'm not going to measure up to your standards, mom. And so either way. What if I don't ask? What if I really, what if I really struggle with this?

What if the other kids in the family got it right away? Yes. That I don't get it right away. What if I just don't understand? Yeah. Yes. And I think that goes back to what I was saying about how we get to shepherd their perspectives, right? Our perspective on a situation makes all the difference in the world.

And so if you understand what, you know, what this little piece of education is doing, what are we aiming for? And, you know, is a mistake a bad thing right now? No, it's part of the process. It's how you learn. You know, so I think shaping and shepherding those perspectives is just a crucial part.

Yes. You are so right. I think that a lot of times we inadvertently pass on to our children the idea that they have to get it quickly and they have to get it perfectly. And then we'll move on. But really what we want them to do is make a, I finally told one of my daughters about something that she was working on.

I said, my goal is for you to make all of the mistakes possible. Nice. Make all the mistakes possible. Right. Make all of the mistakes possible. But then all that will be left is learning to do it the right way. You will know all of the mistakes. And then we'll just slowly work toward getting better and better.

And she, her little shoulders relaxed a little bit. It is hard, especially if one of your children was really good at something. It, you know, if you're a mom of multiples, you already know this. But if you're just, if you've only schooled one child and you have others coming behind them, whatever one excelled at, the next one will not excel at that thing or will not, they won't have the same learning style.

So you'll think you were the best reading teacher in the world for your first child. And then you try that very same thing on your second child. And it's like, you're speaking a foreign language to them. Yes. Yes. But it's okay. We, it is okay for us all to learn in our own way.

We need to help our children. One of the best gifts that we can give them is self-acceptance. I think not measuring our worth by somebody else's performance. So true. That makes me think of C.S. Lewis in Mere Christianity, who talks about how pride is essentially comparative. It's always looking at how do I measure up against somebody else?

And, um, no, he's created us each one uniquely. And we have our own gifts and abilities and limitations. And it's okay to celebrate somebody else's strength and for you to be strong in other areas. It takes nothing away from you for somebody else to be wonderful at something. Yes.

Yes. And that's a hard issue. That's one of the hard issues that we're talking about. And that, as parents, if we address those kinds of things in the home with our children as they grow, then what we shepherd eventually are adults who know how to love their world well.

Yes. And that is so much more important than being able, you know, to find the square root of negative one. Right. I'm just saying. Right. Yes, absolutely. You know, one other, one other thing I would add to, um, to, as we help shape perspectives in our kids is I think there's a just fantastic tool in read-alouds.

Oh, yes. I love that. Picture book biographies or biographical novels that tell stories of people who messed up a lot and continue to try and learn from those mistakes. And I think stories can really help shepherd our kids' attitudes and perspectives, too. I do, too. They are great for building the moral imagination, you know, for helping children and teenagers and grownups figure out what we ought to do in situations which, God willing, we won't ever face.

Yeah. But it develops our empathy. It develops, um, our sense of honor, our sense of bravery, our sense of perseverance. And it gives, it shows us what noble character not just looks like, but how it acts. And so I think that's really good. And I love how the challenge books have been selected very intentionally to meet those very aims.

I'm glad that you brought that up because that is really true. Okay. I, I noticed, I mean, I just started looking at our time thinking, oh my, I'm enjoying this so much that we need to bring it to an end to a close for this time. Anyway, I want to give you the chance.

I want to ask you this one last question. What to you is the most important message that parents send to their children? What, what's the most important message or lesson that we pass on to our kids? The quick, short answer for me is simply the gospel. Um, but by gospel, I mean the, the whole worldview that understands that the God of the universe who created all things, created each one of us in his image, we are created with value, with worth, with dignity.

Um, and he made us for relationship with him and with one another, but sin has broken both of those relationships and we need a savior and praise God. He has met our greatest need in sending us the savior, his son, Jesus, to pay the penalty that our sins deserved.

And so in him, we are forgiven. We are welcomed into his eternal family and we're redeemed. We are, we are given his spirit that enables us to obey his call to be like Jesus and to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love one another as we love ourselves.

We can't do that apart from his saving work in our hearts. And we can't do it apart from his spirit enabling us. Um, and so to me, that, that's the message because that's, what's going to make sense of everything else in our lives and equip us no matter what our children grow up and do, whether they're architects or professors or doctors or teachers or diplomats.

If they know the Lord and understand what he has done for them, then they can do whatever they do to his glory and receive great blessing in the process and just the joy of being close to him. So that's the message that I think our children need more than anything else.

That's beautiful. That, that message fits them to be citizens of this world, but citizens of heaven. Yes. And that, and that my friends is how you shepherd your child's heart. And that is how you do heart first homeschooling. Alicia, thank you so much for being with me today and sharing your insights and your experiences and your stories.

It has been a blessing. I appreciate you. It's been such a joy. Thanks for having me here. All right, listeners, we will see you next week. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.