Everyday Educator - “A World of Possibilities”—Part 1 with Sam Sorbo
00:00:00.000 | (soft music)
00:00:02.420 | - Welcome friends to this episode
00:00:06.360 | of the Everyday Educator podcast.
00:00:08.920 | I'm your host, Lisa Bailey,
00:00:10.640 | and I'm excited to spend some time with you today
00:00:13.880 | as we encourage one another, learn together,
00:00:17.080 | and ponder the delights and challenges
00:00:20.000 | that make homeschooling the adventure of a lifetime.
00:00:23.460 | Whether you're just considering
00:00:25.680 | this homeschooling possibility
00:00:28.080 | or deep into the daily delight of family learning,
00:00:31.920 | I believe you'll enjoy thinking along with us.
00:00:35.860 | But don't forget,
00:00:37.280 | although this online community is awesome,
00:00:40.680 | you'll find even closer support in a local CC community.
00:00:45.680 | So go to classicalconversations.com
00:00:50.280 | and find a community near you today.
00:00:54.100 | Well, listeners, I'm excited to welcome you
00:00:57.440 | to this episode of the Everyday Educator podcast.
00:01:01.360 | I know that a lot of you, like me,
00:01:06.100 | you either are taking or you have taken a break
00:01:12.100 | from working on your passions
00:01:14.800 | in order to homeschool in your family.
00:01:17.800 | And a lot of times, let's be frank,
00:01:20.840 | where I am when kids grow up,
00:01:23.720 | we go back or we go forward
00:01:27.560 | to something that we want to work in.
00:01:29.760 | I host podcasts and I write curriculum.
00:01:33.620 | I have as my guest today a homeschool mom who makes movies.
00:01:38.620 | So I want you to welcome to the podcast with me,
00:01:44.920 | Sam Sorbo today.
00:01:46.620 | Sam, thanks so much for being with us.
00:01:49.120 | - Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
00:01:50.780 | It's always fun to talk to fellow homeschoolers
00:01:54.740 | and get their perspectives on various things.
00:01:59.000 | So I'm looking forward to this.
00:02:00.560 | - This is gonna be really fun to get different perspectives
00:02:06.060 | from people we don't rub shoulders with every day.
00:02:08.720 | I wanna give you a chance to introduce yourself
00:02:12.900 | to all these new friends that you're gonna make today.
00:02:15.980 | Tell them who you are,
00:02:18.600 | maybe a little bit about your family.
00:02:21.080 | I have lots of questions to ask you about homeschooling
00:02:24.740 | and your family's experience.
00:02:27.100 | But I also have a movie, you might've heard of it,
00:02:30.220 | "Miracle in East Texas" that I wanna ask you about too.
00:02:33.240 | So give us a thumbnail sketch of your Sam Sorbo life.
00:02:38.220 | - You're so funny.
00:02:39.980 | Of course I've heard of my movie.
00:02:41.580 | (both laughing)
00:02:44.060 | So I was born at a very young age.
00:02:46.960 | I'm kidding, okay.
00:02:48.420 | Well, most of us were.
00:02:50.000 | - Fast forward to, I met my husband
00:02:53.280 | and he had a severe health crisis right in front of me.
00:02:58.280 | And I was forced to make really a binary choice.
00:03:04.040 | I chose to walk away from my career
00:03:06.160 | because I wanted him to be healthy and I wanted a family.
00:03:10.200 | And I recognized that that was the choice
00:03:12.160 | that God had put in front of me.
00:03:14.520 | And I was very blessed to understand that very quickly.
00:03:19.520 | And so a lot of what I do when I talk to moms especially,
00:03:24.740 | but really young women anywhere,
00:03:27.860 | is I tell them that every choice is binary.
00:03:30.880 | There's only the up or the down, there's the on or the off.
00:03:34.840 | And when you try to sit on the fence, it doesn't serve you.
00:03:39.120 | You need to prioritize and then serve the highest priority
00:03:43.040 | with that decision.
00:03:44.760 | So I made that decision with Kevin.
00:03:47.120 | We got married, he did recover fully.
00:03:50.500 | It took about three years, it was a hard road.
00:03:54.000 | And then we had children.
00:03:55.720 | And I had three children and I was getting back
00:03:58.360 | to my career, which was as an actress.
00:04:01.460 | And I had my toddler, my youngest,
00:04:04.600 | who didn't have very many words,
00:04:06.200 | but she did have the word no,
00:04:08.780 | run up to me when I came home from an audition one day
00:04:11.640 | with her little finger pointing saying,
00:04:14.020 | "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no."
00:04:18.100 | And I picked her up and I put her on my hip
00:04:20.200 | and she turned to my nanny and she said, "Bye-bye."
00:04:24.280 | - Oh.
00:04:25.440 | - And so because of my previous experience,
00:04:28.540 | I recognized that I had another binary choice
00:04:31.480 | in front of me.
00:04:32.320 | And I want to get parents to recognize that.
00:04:39.680 | You must prioritize your children, they are worth it.
00:04:43.360 | And when you do that, you win.
00:04:47.800 | It's not them who wins. - Absolutely.
00:04:49.120 | - Like they win, sure, they win, absolutely.
00:04:51.800 | But you win to a degree that you can't possibly fathom
00:04:56.800 | because of our culture today.
00:05:00.200 | Because our culture says that children have no value.
00:05:03.320 | They actually, their death has more value than their lives
00:05:07.840 | in our culture today.
00:05:09.280 | It's so upside down.
00:05:10.520 | And so I try to speak into culture.
00:05:14.480 | I'm very blessed that I have a platform
00:05:18.000 | because of the fame of my husband, really.
00:05:20.840 | And so that gets me in places
00:05:25.200 | and gets me in front of people and stuff
00:05:27.720 | that otherwise I wouldn't.
00:05:30.180 | But even if he didn't have that,
00:05:33.240 | I would be just trying to get this message out
00:05:37.320 | because this is the saving message of the United States.
00:05:40.900 | I believe this is the message that can save freedom
00:05:44.260 | if we can get enough families, Christian families
00:05:47.680 | to homeschool for Christian children.
00:05:49.680 | And the reason that I say that is it's pretty simple.
00:05:53.000 | Children love truth right now in our schools.
00:05:57.160 | And I'll say our nation's schools,
00:05:59.520 | I will just focus on government schools for right now.
00:06:03.600 | They're getting a pack of lies.
00:06:05.060 | They hate it, they're rebellious.
00:06:07.280 | They know that they're being lied to.
00:06:10.020 | And they are doing everything in their power
00:06:12.160 | to stick it to the man, to rebel against that.
00:06:18.100 | But if you do so little, so little in your homeschool,
00:06:23.000 | this little, okay, read the Bible with your kids every day.
00:06:26.900 | 15 to 20 minutes.
00:06:29.760 | I'm not talking, this is not a big lift.
00:06:32.040 | This is the least amount of work that you could do
00:06:36.900 | and still be able to say that you are being successful.
00:06:41.140 | It's literally this simple.
00:06:43.400 | Read the Bible with your kids every day.
00:06:45.620 | Make them understand that the Bible is truth
00:06:49.920 | and don't give them electronics.
00:06:52.480 | That's the other caveat.
00:06:53.540 | They can't have electronics, seriously, no electronics.
00:06:56.140 | Like maybe one movie a week
00:06:58.000 | if you screen the movie for them kind of thing.
00:07:00.440 | Then your children will grow up loving truth and loving God.
00:07:06.900 | It's literally, and like I know I'm talking
00:07:09.360 | on a classical conversations platform, right?
00:07:12.160 | So I'm not dissing classical conversations in any way.
00:07:15.800 | I'm a full-time classical conversations mom.
00:07:18.920 | I'm a big advocate.
00:07:22.120 | I speak and I advocate for classical conversations
00:07:25.080 | and they don't pay me.
00:07:26.680 | - Yes. (laughs)
00:07:28.080 | Well, you are with kindred spirits then.
00:07:30.440 | Here we all are together in that.
00:07:32.760 | - But I've heard, I have heard from parents
00:07:35.320 | that and they, and by the way, it isn't,
00:07:37.880 | but they think that it's too heavy of a lift.
00:07:40.640 | - Oh, yes, right.
00:07:41.960 | - Because it appears like, oh my goodness, that's a lot.
00:07:45.540 | And it can be a lot if you choose for it to be a lot,
00:07:48.640 | but it doesn't have to be.
00:07:49.760 | It's fully, you can tailor it fully.
00:07:51.840 | So I'm not sure, but here's the thing.
00:07:54.120 | Have you noticed, Lisa?
00:07:55.760 | People say a lot of stuff
00:07:58.480 | about things that they know nothing about.
00:08:02.560 | - And they have little experience with.
00:08:05.800 | - Well, yeah, 'cause they know nothing.
00:08:08.120 | - Yeah, exactly.
00:08:09.900 | - They know nothing.
00:08:10.740 | I was at an event two nights ago
00:08:13.520 | and I was talking with a,
00:08:15.640 | he's actually a very well-known talk show host
00:08:18.400 | and God bless him.
00:08:22.100 | He's for school choice and he has a school
00:08:26.160 | that he supports and blah, blah, blah, right?
00:08:27.920 | - Right, right.
00:08:28.920 | - And he goes, but Sam, parents can't,
00:08:31.760 | you can't think that parents are all gonna, you know.
00:08:35.360 | And I said, with all due respect,
00:08:39.340 | and I'll shortcut it for you 'cause I'm never this rude,
00:08:42.160 | but because you and I are talking, I'll just shortcut it.
00:08:44.960 | - Right.
00:08:45.800 | - I'm like, you just don't know what you're talking about.
00:08:47.600 | You don't have kids.
00:08:48.440 | You've never educated a child.
00:08:49.800 | Like, you just don't know.
00:08:51.920 | - You haven't tried it.
00:08:53.320 | - You're making statements,
00:08:55.540 | but you really don't know what you're saying
00:08:59.280 | because you're using the word homeschool,
00:09:01.440 | but you don't even have a,
00:09:02.520 | you have no idea what homeschooling is.
00:09:04.520 | - Right.
00:09:05.360 | - I mean, that's really like,
00:09:06.480 | not every parent can homeschool.
00:09:08.060 | Not the way you do it.
00:09:09.400 | How do you homeschool again?
00:09:10.600 | Can you explain that to me again?
00:09:12.680 | - Yes, exactly.
00:09:13.840 | - Because they don't.
00:09:15.240 | - Right, they are envisioning bringing home
00:09:17.960 | what they knew of education when they were students.
00:09:21.680 | - That's right.
00:09:22.520 | - And it's not that.
00:09:23.420 | - It's not, this is what I say.
00:09:25.240 | I don't even call it homeschooling
00:09:26.680 | because it's not school at home.
00:09:28.320 | That's not what it is.
00:09:29.160 | - Exactly, exactly.
00:09:31.360 | Oh my goodness, it's home-centered education.
00:09:34.280 | That's what we do.
00:09:35.780 | But people don't understand that.
00:09:37.680 | Well.
00:09:38.520 | - I like that, home-centered, home-seated.
00:09:40.600 | Home-seated education because it's not centered on the home.
00:09:43.840 | It's just seated there.
00:09:45.320 | - Exactly, a lot of people think,
00:09:47.200 | oh, homeschoolers, they're so odd.
00:09:48.920 | They never leave their home
00:09:50.320 | and everything has to be controlled by their parent.
00:09:52.760 | It's all inside the four walls of their home.
00:09:55.200 | And that's rare.
00:09:57.880 | In most cases, we are out.
00:10:00.420 | We are doing things.
00:10:01.560 | We are availing ourselves of opportunities.
00:10:04.260 | Home-seated or home-centered, yes.
00:10:07.040 | But school at home, that's the worst.
00:10:10.160 | - Well, school schooling's the worst.
00:10:11.840 | - Well, that's true.
00:10:12.680 | I give you that.
00:10:13.680 | I give you that.
00:10:14.520 | - But there's an explanation for why people think
00:10:16.560 | that homeschoolers are weirdos.
00:10:17.760 | And we should excuse them for that
00:10:20.120 | 'cause they just don't know.
00:10:21.920 | - Right, they probably not met any real homeschoolers.
00:10:24.620 | - And you've been doing this for a while, right?
00:10:26.900 | So you remember probably when homeschoolers
00:10:29.560 | were all weird, they were all weirdos.
00:10:31.560 | Like, a lot of them were weirdos.
00:10:33.680 | - Okay, I will tell you.
00:10:35.140 | I'll tell you, my 30-year-old daughter,
00:10:37.680 | she's 30 now, or she's, actually, she turns 30 tomorrow.
00:10:41.600 | When she was young, we homeschooled her the whole way,
00:10:45.400 | she would describe people that she met in the early days.
00:10:50.400 | She would find out that they went to public school
00:10:53.720 | or they went to private school or they were homeschooled.
00:10:55.860 | And then she would look at me
00:10:57.040 | and she would tip her head down and she would say,
00:10:59.540 | but they are painfully homeschooled.
00:11:03.580 | And she meant they were awkward.
00:11:05.720 | They were socially awkward.
00:11:08.040 | - Right, but that's because back in the day,
00:11:12.480 | and we'll go back, let's go back 40 years, right?
00:11:15.880 | Before you started.
00:11:17.260 | Back then, you were a pioneer when you chose
00:11:22.680 | to not avail yourself of the government schools.
00:11:26.600 | Either you were extremely religious,
00:11:29.340 | which comes with its own things,
00:11:31.400 | which we don't have to get into, right?
00:11:33.840 | Or your child was so much of a misfit,
00:11:38.840 | they couldn't get along.
00:11:40.560 | And so it was your last resort.
00:11:42.460 | It was your only resort was to keep them out of the bullying
00:11:47.460 | and the mistreatment that the school would provide
00:11:50.080 | because your child was so misaligned
00:11:52.880 | with whatever social cues were happening in the school.
00:11:55.880 | And so they were weirdos when they were homeschooled.
00:11:59.980 | But those days have changed, man.
00:12:01.980 | And now if you're homeschooled, you're part of the cool kids
00:12:05.100 | because it's the misfits that go to school.
00:12:07.420 | It's the kids who think that they can defecate
00:12:09.640 | in a litter box because they believe themselves to be cats.
00:12:12.700 | And I'm sure you've seen the meme.
00:12:16.060 | There are several of them, but it's like,
00:12:19.260 | why do you homeschool your kids?
00:12:21.540 | Your kids are gonna be weirdos.
00:12:23.980 | And then the next frame is,
00:12:25.260 | yeah, your kid goes to school and thinks that he's a cat.
00:12:28.040 | - Right, exactly, exactly.
00:12:30.440 | That is very true.
00:12:32.620 | And now I had a friend just the other day who said
00:12:37.620 | that she was out with her children.
00:12:39.780 | And when somebody found out
00:12:42.860 | that her children were homeschooled,
00:12:44.180 | they said, really, they're homeschooled?
00:12:46.060 | They're so normal.
00:12:47.660 | And what she meant by that was
00:12:49.900 | they act like regular teenagers
00:12:54.140 | and they are able to converse,
00:12:55.980 | which actually in point of fact is not normal
00:12:58.780 | for a lot of teenagers who are used to only interacting
00:13:02.660 | with people their own age.
00:13:04.140 | - Well, they say, well,
00:13:05.660 | how are your kids gonna get socialized in school?
00:13:07.900 | And I go, but in school,
00:13:09.380 | they're taught that they have to sit at the desk
00:13:11.040 | and shut up and not talk to people.
00:13:12.940 | Where do you think they're getting socialized?
00:13:15.540 | And define socialized, like, what do you mean by that?
00:13:18.360 | Mobs don't socialize people.
00:13:22.900 | It's just ridiculous.
00:13:24.020 | And by the way, I socialize my dog.
00:13:25.980 | I don't socialize my children.
00:13:27.620 | - Yes, I raise my children.
00:13:29.460 | - Yeah, and there's so many different ways
00:13:31.500 | of sort of combating that.
00:13:34.940 | But like I said, people say things
00:13:38.220 | about things about which they know nothing.
00:13:41.140 | - Yes, you're right.
00:13:42.540 | You are very right.
00:13:43.980 | Let me ask you this.
00:13:45.020 | What did you always grow up thinking,
00:13:49.160 | oh, when I have children, I'm going to homeschool them.
00:13:51.620 | What convinced you that families need to be emancipated
00:13:56.620 | from the modern school system?
00:13:58.460 | What is it that is so wrong with that system?
00:14:00.980 | What is it giving us that we don't need?
00:14:04.220 | And what is it keeping from us that we do need?
00:14:08.580 | - Oh, I thought you only wanted to go an hour.
00:14:10.780 | - Well, here's the deal.
00:14:12.740 | If we get too much, we'll just break it into two
00:14:15.620 | and have a two-part episode.
00:14:17.040 | - That's a deal.
00:14:19.340 | Okay, so here's the thing.
00:14:21.500 | I, my son, my oldest son, we moved for the school.
00:14:25.900 | We moved to get to a better school system.
00:14:29.000 | And this cute little red brick elementary school
00:14:32.540 | that was so well appointed
00:14:34.140 | and it was so sweet and everything.
00:14:36.340 | And so he went to first and second grade.
00:14:38.360 | And in second grade, there was stuff happening
00:14:40.420 | in the classroom that I disliked.
00:14:45.020 | He was coming home with an attitude that I didn't enjoy.
00:14:48.780 | He was only in second grade,
00:14:50.060 | but he was a very, very popular child.
00:14:52.720 | He was, in first grade, all the fifth graders,
00:14:56.500 | that was the highest grade in that school,
00:14:59.280 | they all knew his name.
00:15:00.260 | He was a known entity by the end of first grade.
00:15:04.100 | And so I just, and then there were some issues
00:15:09.100 | with the teachers.
00:15:10.060 | I loved the teacher.
00:15:10.940 | She was a really sweet gal, but he had two teachers.
00:15:14.540 | They alternated every day.
00:15:17.180 | They had five disruptive children in the class,
00:15:20.540 | five of them.
00:15:22.100 | It took her ages to get them EIPs.
00:15:26.700 | There were just a bunch of different things.
00:15:29.220 | And in fact, I wrote about them in my book there, Your Kids,
00:15:32.100 | because I wanted people to understand the journey
00:15:34.700 | that I went on to get to the point where I said
00:15:38.880 | to my husband at the end of second grade,
00:15:41.420 | I think I could fail at homeschooling
00:15:43.440 | and he would still be better off.
00:15:44.820 | - And do better.
00:15:46.420 | - Yeah, it was so evident to me.
00:15:48.500 | And that's why I say, to boil it down,
00:15:51.260 | all you really need to do is 15 minutes of Bible
00:15:53.540 | every day with your child.
00:15:55.100 | Teach them to read, teach them manners.
00:15:57.820 | - Have conversations with them about what they're thinking.
00:16:01.980 | - We're really talking the basics.
00:16:04.060 | And so going back to this conversation that I had
00:16:08.140 | with this talk show host, I said, here's the thing.
00:16:13.140 | Children are naturally curious.
00:16:16.180 | What's the first thing we tell them they have to do
00:16:17.860 | when they go to school?
00:16:18.700 | Sit down and shut up. - Sit down and stop.
00:16:20.100 | - Stop asking questions.
00:16:21.580 | So school is the opposite of education.
00:16:23.780 | And he turns to me, he goes, "Sam, you just blew my mind."
00:16:26.640 | I go, "Yeah, because nobody thinks that way."
00:16:29.020 | Why?
00:16:29.860 | Because we all went to school, okay?
00:16:31.580 | We are all so school injured.
00:16:34.640 | We are school injured. - Yes, yes.
00:16:36.620 | - Even now as parents.
00:16:37.700 | And so I took him out after second grade.
00:16:40.780 | I sent my two youngers to the lovely little kindergarten
00:16:44.700 | 'cause I thought, what's the harm?
00:16:46.460 | - Right, and them playing with other kids, right.
00:16:49.220 | - And I thought, they'll make friends.
00:16:50.660 | This will be a good thing for them.
00:16:51.980 | And I've got a story about that.
00:16:53.500 | So I don't recommend preschool anymore.
00:16:56.140 | I don't recommend kindergarten.
00:16:57.580 | I recommend no institutionalizing a healthy child.
00:17:01.080 | Do not institutionalize your healthy children.
00:17:04.080 | It's that simple.
00:17:05.340 | But I'll save that story for a minute
00:17:07.840 | because I took my oldest out and all of a sudden,
00:17:13.020 | over the course of say, two or three weeks,
00:17:16.340 | I noticed, gee, they're getting along so much better now.
00:17:20.140 | - Yes.
00:17:20.980 | - The shift was immediate.
00:17:22.640 | It happened very quickly.
00:17:24.620 | And then I started like doing some schoolwork with them.
00:17:28.720 | And it was fun.
00:17:30.460 | Now I get it, I'm a bit of a nerd.
00:17:32.320 | I like the schoolwork.
00:17:33.580 | Like it was fun to me.
00:17:35.100 | - Well, you're talking to nerds.
00:17:36.320 | So we're all in that together.
00:17:38.020 | - But I liked doing stuff with my kids.
00:17:41.780 | And so if you, so, and like I said,
00:17:45.540 | these stories are in the book, "They're Your Kids,"
00:17:48.060 | which really, I wrote it because I started to blog.
00:17:52.060 | My experience as a homeschooler,
00:17:54.000 | I thought if I'm gonna do this experiment,
00:17:56.180 | I might as well share it with other people.
00:17:58.180 | So I started to blog and then eventually
00:17:59.820 | I put it all together in a book.
00:18:01.820 | And the first part of the book is the entire indictment
00:18:04.940 | of our school system,
00:18:06.960 | which goes into the history of the school system
00:18:10.640 | and why it is anti-American, it's anti-constitutional.
00:18:14.300 | Even though it's in state constitutions,
00:18:17.340 | it's not in the national constitution.
00:18:19.140 | So I don't know why we have a Department of Education.
00:18:22.180 | In fact, we should call it the Department of Schooling
00:18:24.820 | because it's not an education center.
00:18:27.820 | - And that was never a national important,
00:18:29.940 | that was not one of the founding father's ideas
00:18:32.640 | for what the federal government should be responsible for.
00:18:35.500 | - No, they would be rolling over in their graves.
00:18:39.200 | And by the way, let's point out, they were geniuses, right?
00:18:42.420 | They created, out of whole cloth,
00:18:46.780 | they created and then fought for and won the right to be
00:18:50.620 | the most prosperous nation in the world,
00:18:54.580 | sorry, the most prosperous nation in the world,
00:18:58.100 | which created the greatest leap in prosperity for the world,
00:19:03.100 | the greatest, most generous nation in the world,
00:19:07.780 | was created by these geniuses who,
00:19:10.620 | can I just point out, were all homeschooled.
00:19:12.620 | - I was gonna say, who or shall we note
00:19:15.160 | were not publicly educated?
00:19:17.900 | - Right.
00:19:18.740 | - Oh my goodness.
00:19:20.100 | - So I started doing this with the kids.
00:19:23.460 | And so fast forward, my kids are all fierce,
00:19:28.020 | fiercely dipped in truth.
00:19:32.980 | Like they are truth seekers, they love God,
00:19:37.980 | they have very strong opinions.
00:19:41.220 | I say that to people and they look at me like,
00:19:42.980 | "Well, we wonder where they got that, Sam."
00:19:44.920 | And I'm like, "Because," and I tell parents,
00:19:49.300 | "Negotiate with your children,
00:19:50.600 | "teach your children to negotiate,
00:19:51.920 | "teach your children to debate."
00:19:54.460 | - Yes.
00:19:55.300 | - And this is why people can come to me and say things
00:20:00.140 | that they don't know anything about
00:20:01.700 | as if they have knowledge because they were never taught
00:20:04.340 | in school what actual knowledge is.
00:20:08.020 | They were given pablum and told that they were smart.
00:20:11.700 | They regurgitated the teacher's opinions on a test
00:20:15.520 | and they were given an A.
00:20:16.580 | And so they think they're knowledgeable
00:20:18.380 | about things that they're not knowledgeable.
00:20:22.180 | I mean, it's just ridiculous.
00:20:23.700 | - Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:20:26.760 | - So fast forward, my kids, I say this out loud
00:20:31.540 | when I speak and I talk to legislators, I talk to moms,
00:20:36.420 | I speak all over the country and I say to people,
00:20:40.300 | "I did it wrong."
00:20:42.340 | - Oh, yes. - I didn't even do it right.
00:20:44.220 | - Right.
00:20:45.260 | - And it was hugely, phenomenally successful.
00:20:48.340 | You meet my kids and you're like, "How'd that happen?
00:20:52.140 | "Where'd that come from?"
00:20:54.260 | Because my, and they're all extraordinarily different.
00:20:57.360 | My oldest is the social butterfly.
00:21:00.620 | He knows a ton of people everywhere.
00:21:03.500 | I go speak at a conference and the guy sitting next to me
00:21:06.900 | at the conference, I get home and I tell my son,
00:21:10.000 | so I went and spoke at this conference and he goes,
00:21:11.680 | "Yeah, I know, my friend was sitting next to you."
00:21:14.460 | I'm like, "So you knew people at the conference
00:21:17.120 | "that I didn't know."
00:21:18.780 | - Right, right.
00:21:20.020 | I know a guy. - How does that happen?
00:21:22.300 | - Oh, absolutely.
00:21:23.780 | You're just so-and-so's mom to some people.
00:21:26.740 | - But I can't brag too much about my kids, can I?
00:21:29.220 | I mean-- - Oh, sure, sure.
00:21:31.060 | And you can tell embarrassing stories about them.
00:21:33.940 | I'm sure they'll never listen to this interview, so.
00:21:36.460 | - So let me, so we're talking the everyday educator, right?
00:21:41.020 | And we're talking to moms who are educators,
00:21:43.420 | or at least they're trying to be.
00:21:45.460 | Here's the thing, you are the curriculum.
00:21:47.940 | Don't make it more complicated than that.
00:21:50.300 | If you wanna go get books to teach your kids stuff, okay.
00:21:55.300 | But here's the deal, your kids are curious.
00:21:58.140 | If you just guide that curiosity
00:22:00.940 | and then put some guard rails on it
00:22:02.800 | so it doesn't go off the charts in any one direction, right,
00:22:07.140 | they will drive their own education.
00:22:10.180 | Oh, you better hold on, you know.
00:22:12.820 | Like, let them drive their education, you hold on.
00:22:15.980 | And do your kids need to learn Latin?
00:22:18.140 | I think that they should learn Latin.
00:22:20.440 | That's a tough one, right,
00:22:21.460 | because they're gonna argue with you.
00:22:23.440 | But here's the deal, there are no arguments about Latin.
00:22:26.300 | Latin is a pre-decided thing.
00:22:28.460 | There's no point in bringing it up.
00:22:29.940 | It's going to happen.
00:22:30.780 | You will learn Latin. - Right, we're doing it.
00:22:32.320 | - Right, we're gonna do it. - And we're doing it together.
00:22:34.140 | So smile and nod. - That's right.
00:22:35.940 | That's right, same thing with piano.
00:22:37.980 | My kids, all of my kids at one point or another
00:22:40.780 | begged me to drop piano.
00:22:43.020 | Oh, we'll take up guitar as if that's like, come on.
00:22:46.420 | I know what's happening there.
00:22:47.980 | So yes, you can certainly take up guitar.
00:22:50.060 | It's a perfect accompaniment for piano.
00:22:52.500 | And so you can learn both simultaneously,
00:22:54.500 | and that's a very clever idea.
00:22:55.860 | And guess what, the guitar never happened,
00:22:58.180 | but my kids all play piano, and I have one child.
00:23:01.920 | The other two, they're proficient pianists.
00:23:05.980 | They're good, right?
00:23:07.780 | They are not in love with it.
00:23:09.740 | But I do have a child who absolutely loves it.
00:23:12.400 | He's traveling in Europe right now,
00:23:14.520 | and he reached out to me because there is
00:23:16.540 | a fold-up keyboard that he wants to get himself.
00:23:18.980 | - Oh, lovely.
00:23:20.500 | - That's how much he loves it.
00:23:22.060 | That's how much he needs it.
00:23:23.260 | - And see, how would he have found that passion
00:23:26.060 | if you had not pressed and introduced that to him?
00:23:29.120 | - That's right.
00:23:29.960 | - So that's what we do.
00:23:30.780 | We're the great introducers of all the things
00:23:34.660 | so that our children can become proficient in some
00:23:38.060 | and passionate about others, but well-rounded
00:23:41.820 | and able to participate in all kinds of conversations.
00:23:46.740 | I had one daughter who absolutely would have been happy
00:23:50.780 | if I had let her skip all the debate
00:23:53.300 | that she was ever assigned to do.
00:23:55.180 | And she would come home and she would say,
00:23:56.920 | "I've already done one.
00:23:57.920 | "Are you sure that I have to participate in this one?"
00:24:01.400 | And I was like, "Yeah, I'm sure that you do."
00:24:04.580 | And you were sure that you had to when you asked me that.
00:24:07.620 | And she never let the record show.
00:24:10.540 | She never developed a passion for it.
00:24:13.400 | But the funniest, one of the funniest stories
00:24:15.900 | of our homeschooling journey was that when she went
00:24:18.020 | to college and got assigned to debate with a team
00:24:23.020 | in an art class, of all things,
00:24:27.220 | nobody else in the class had any idea about debate.
00:24:30.440 | And she is not a natural leader and does not want
00:24:33.420 | to be in charge, but will fill the space if no one,
00:24:38.340 | if a leader does not appear, she will do it.
00:24:41.180 | And so she said, "Well, I mean, we have to do this debate.
00:24:44.140 | "We need a statement, we need our affirmations,
00:24:47.760 | "we need three reasons, we need to have some research
00:24:51.820 | "so that we're prepared to rebut."
00:24:53.460 | And they were all like, "What in the world?"
00:24:55.500 | And so she led her team through this.
00:24:57.940 | And as she exited the classroom, the professor said,
00:25:02.580 | "Well, I can tell that you must have been a big debater
00:25:05.940 | "in high school because you know how to do this so well."
00:25:09.180 | And she was so flabbergasted.
00:25:10.700 | She didn't do anything but shake his hand as she exited.
00:25:13.660 | (laughing)
00:25:14.500 | And she came home and she called me and she said,
00:25:16.180 | "Oh, my word, what have you done?"
00:25:18.740 | I said, "Absolutely nothing, but look what God
00:25:21.260 | "has done through you."
00:25:22.820 | - The point of debate is not to get proficient at debate.
00:25:30.140 | - Right.
00:25:31.000 | - The point of debate is to learn how to think and reason.
00:25:34.280 | - And listen.
00:25:35.480 | - And, right, and listen so that you, and by the way,
00:25:38.480 | hear the other side of things, be able to see
00:25:42.120 | the other side of things because one day you will need
00:25:45.740 | to persuade somebody of something.
00:25:48.300 | And if you know how to debate, then you will be able
00:25:51.780 | better to persuade them of the thing that you want
00:25:54.340 | to persuade them of.
00:25:55.820 | - That's so true.
00:25:56.660 | - It's a beautiful, beautiful thing.
00:25:58.020 | - If you're not able to listen to the other person,
00:26:01.620 | then you're never able to dial back to where you both
00:26:05.740 | agreed on something.
00:26:07.860 | And in order to ever persuade someone of anything,
00:26:11.500 | you have to find the last point of commonality,
00:26:15.060 | the last point of agreement, and then we're gonna
00:26:17.140 | walk forward, and I am hopefully going to lead you
00:26:21.220 | toward my position.
00:26:23.060 | - So you wanna know the hardest thing that I've ever done
00:26:27.180 | as a homeschool mom?
00:26:29.100 | - What?
00:26:30.280 | - Debate.
00:26:31.120 | So I personally love debate.
00:26:34.580 | I never did it growing up, I had no idea,
00:26:36.940 | but I learned everything that I ever needed to know
00:26:40.620 | about debate by stoa, which is the Greek word for column,
00:26:45.620 | and it's a debate organization, a Christian debate
00:26:50.220 | organization, speech and debate, out on the West Coast
00:26:53.460 | when we lived on the West Coast.
00:26:54.500 | So I learned everything there and through, obviously,
00:26:58.000 | through classical conversations, but my son loved it.
00:27:02.900 | He loved giving speeches and he became quite well known
00:27:07.460 | because that's what he does.
00:27:09.100 | He gets himself to be well known in those circles.
00:27:13.700 | My second child preferred Lincoln Douglas,
00:27:16.980 | and so he did a bunch of Lincoln Douglas.
00:27:19.420 | And then my third child was too young out there, we moved,
00:27:23.580 | and so she did debate here in Florida.
00:27:26.280 | And for her first debate in challenge one,
00:27:29.420 | she was debating the death penalty and she's very,
00:27:32.620 | I don't know if shy is the correct word.
00:27:35.380 | She's an extreme introvert and she did not want to debate.
00:27:38.220 | And so on the day of the debate,
00:27:40.060 | she stood in the hallway and sobbed.
00:27:43.020 | - Oh, yes. - I kid you not, she sobbed.
00:27:44.980 | - Yes. - And sobbed some more.
00:27:47.740 | Please don't make me do this, mommy.
00:27:49.380 | Please don't make me do this.
00:27:50.740 | I just don't want to do it.
00:27:52.060 | I just can't do it.
00:27:52.900 | Now, I had arranged, because I pulled some strings
00:27:56.840 | and nobody minded, for her to give the one AC,
00:28:00.140 | which is the first part of the debate.
00:28:02.340 | - Absolutely. - And it is fully scripted.
00:28:04.180 | The only not scripted part is your cross-examination.
00:28:07.740 | - Exactly. - In which you're
00:28:10.140 | answering questions, right?
00:28:11.640 | And it's the first debate, so like all bets are off
00:28:14.340 | as to how it's gonna go. - Right, right.
00:28:16.020 | They're just gonna ask you where you get your sources, so.
00:28:18.840 | - Right, she was in, could you repeat your first point
00:28:22.660 | or whatever? - Right, right.
00:28:23.500 | - She was in a pretty academic class and she was terrified.
00:28:28.500 | And she, it took her forever, I kid you not.
00:28:33.360 | The whole room was silent and we were jam-packed
00:28:37.020 | into a small classroom with all the parents there
00:28:39.540 | to watch and support and whatever.
00:28:42.380 | And it was stifling and nobody said a thing.
00:28:46.100 | And I talked her through it, I'm gonna get emotional
00:28:49.640 | because it was very hard for me to do this.
00:28:51.740 | - Yes, yes. - And I just kept saying
00:28:54.220 | to her, you must, you will read it, you will read it now.
00:28:57.940 | - That you're going to stand up there and get through it.
00:29:00.580 | - That's correct, and she walked up to the podium
00:29:04.020 | and she was crying and she turned around and walked away
00:29:06.560 | and then she walked back and cried some more
00:29:08.820 | and turned around and walked away.
00:29:10.180 | I kid you not, it was agonizing.
00:29:13.880 | And I finally said, I'm gonna count you down.
00:29:16.120 | This is a trick that I shall share with parents.
00:29:19.020 | You don't count up, you count down.
00:29:21.940 | And so I said, I'm gonna count you down, here we go.
00:29:25.180 | Stand at the podium, three, two, one.
00:29:29.680 | And I will tell you, I didn't shed a tear at the time.
00:29:35.120 | I'm emotional now, but at the time I was fully stoic.
00:29:38.820 | I was not going to let up.
00:29:42.160 | - Well, she had to conquer it.
00:29:44.140 | She had to win that day in that moment.
00:29:47.540 | - That's it, or she would never win.
00:29:49.540 | - Right, exactly. - Or would never have, right?
00:29:51.260 | And she sobbed through the entire thing.
00:29:54.100 | She got three quarters of the way through
00:29:56.680 | and she sort of let up a little bit
00:29:58.640 | because I think she was three quarters of the way through,
00:30:02.000 | but then she realized that she was almost done
00:30:03.940 | and she broke down again and sobbed for the rest of it.
00:30:06.760 | (laughs)
00:30:08.340 | But here's the thing, and this is what I wanna tell parents
00:30:10.820 | because you have to learn from this, okay?
00:30:12.860 | This was the hardest thing I've ever done.
00:30:14.980 | I'm so glad I did it.
00:30:16.380 | She's so glad I did it.
00:30:18.780 | And the next week, because we had a small class,
00:30:22.700 | the director decided that we would debate
00:30:28.460 | the opposite side the following week.
00:30:32.220 | And so each team took the opposite side.
00:30:35.520 | And that week we were in the great big room,
00:30:37.940 | 'cause we got the great big room that day,
00:30:40.300 | and my daughter totally ruled the room.
00:30:45.300 | (laughs)
00:30:46.180 | - Good for her.
00:30:47.600 | - It was night and day.
00:30:49.820 | - Yeah.
00:30:51.220 | - And it's only because she powered through and she won.
00:30:55.700 | - Yes, yes.
00:30:57.620 | And only because you as her mother
00:31:01.900 | loved her enough to do the hard,
00:31:05.100 | uncomfortable thing and stand and walk with her
00:31:08.980 | through the terribly uncomfortable experience
00:31:12.460 | so she could get to the other side and be victorious.
00:31:16.500 | Because you cared enough about her to do that
00:31:20.560 | more than anybody else would have cared about her.
00:31:23.220 | - It's so hard, I'm seriously crying right now
00:31:27.180 | because it was so, it really was very hard.
00:31:31.020 | I just, yeah.
00:31:32.820 | - Yeah, and that's what homeschooling is all about.
00:31:36.940 | Helping your children do the hard things
00:31:40.420 | and walking hand in hand with them through the hard things
00:31:45.420 | till they become confident that--
00:31:52.580 | - Till they can lead the way.
00:31:53.940 | - Yes.
00:31:55.060 | - And it's such a, so this is what they hide from us, right?
00:31:59.100 | When you send your child to school,
00:32:02.020 | they don't let you see this side of the equation,
00:32:05.180 | like this potential, right?
00:32:07.740 | - Right.
00:32:08.580 | - My relationship with my teenagers,
00:32:10.140 | I tell parents, teenagers don't rebel.
00:32:12.600 | Because there are certain lies that we have simply adopted
00:32:16.040 | and accepted in our culture.
00:32:17.660 | We've adopted the lie that parenting is hard.
00:32:20.180 | We've adopted the lie that teaching is hard.
00:32:22.700 | We've adopted the lie that learning is hard.
00:32:24.940 | And we've adopted the lie that teenagers rebel,
00:32:28.300 | that teenagers are rebellious.
00:32:30.540 | And I will tell you, if you give your children truth,
00:32:33.400 | they don't rebel.
00:32:34.940 | - Right.
00:32:35.780 | - There's nothing for them to rebel against.
00:32:38.220 | You're gonna rebel against the truth?
00:32:39.540 | That's like rebelling against God.
00:32:40.860 | Good luck with that.
00:32:41.900 | - Right, that's not gonna end well.
00:32:43.660 | - It doesn't turn out well when you do that.
00:32:45.340 | - It does not end well.
00:32:46.700 | - Right, so that's the beautiful thing.
00:32:50.620 | And when my kids were teens, my husband traveled a lot.
00:32:55.540 | And I would often go, in fact, because I worked
00:32:59.420 | from 6 a.m. to 9 a.m. every day,
00:33:02.700 | I did a nationally syndicated radio show
00:33:06.180 | while I was home educating my kid.
00:33:07.780 | - Right, right.
00:33:08.620 | - Which is why when people say, "Well, I work."
00:33:10.820 | I go, "Well, that's no excuse."
00:33:12.260 | Do you have another one? - I know.
00:33:13.100 | I mean, we all work at something.
00:33:15.260 | - Right, so I used to go to bed quite early.
00:33:17.900 | I would be in bed with my laptop doing some research
00:33:20.500 | for the show or whatever.
00:33:22.060 | And my kids, one at a time on various days,
00:33:26.220 | they would come knock softly on the door
00:33:28.220 | and come in and sit down on my bed
00:33:30.740 | and just sort of download their day.
00:33:32.380 | They just wanted to have relationship.
00:33:34.340 | - Yeah, exactly.
00:33:35.180 | - They just wanted to connect.
00:33:37.100 | And I would always like gently fold my computer,
00:33:40.340 | put it to the side and make a mental note
00:33:42.380 | that it was gonna be a late night for me or whatever.
00:33:44.460 | - Yes.
00:33:45.580 | - But I would never turn them down.
00:33:47.520 | That was the precious stuff, man.
00:33:49.740 | That was the icing, that was the good stuff.
00:33:53.060 | And you're denied that when you send your child to school
00:33:57.100 | because the school comes between you and the child.
00:33:59.860 | - Yes.
00:34:00.700 | - And so there's all, and by the way,
00:34:01.980 | the child knows that the school is lying to them
00:34:04.300 | and they know that you as the parent put your child there.
00:34:07.340 | - Right, that you have defaulted to that.
00:34:09.800 | - So you've betrayed them.
00:34:10.640 | - You have defaulted, abdicated your responsibility.
00:34:12.860 | - And it's a betrayal.
00:34:14.700 | And it's hard to overcome that betrayal.
00:34:17.220 | I had a mother in one of my conferences break down
00:34:21.860 | and stand up and say, "I owe my daughter an apology."
00:34:25.460 | And her daughter was there in the room with the granddaughter.
00:34:29.340 | She said, "I have to apologize to you right now
00:34:31.720 | "because I really want you to homeschool your granddaughter
00:34:34.700 | "and I'm sorry for not homeschooling."
00:34:36.980 | - Yes, that.
00:34:38.920 | - It was an amazing thing because you can take responsibility
00:34:45.020 | what little responsibility you may have, right?
00:34:48.700 | She doesn't, it really isn't her fault
00:34:51.300 | that she just followed the way of the world
00:34:53.500 | and sent the children to school.
00:34:55.220 | - Right, I mean, we didn't know that there was an option.
00:34:58.020 | Nobody was painting a picture that this was doable
00:35:02.500 | and that this was preferable and that there's a way.
00:35:05.780 | You didn't even know, 30 years ago,
00:35:08.300 | you didn't really know it was a choice
00:35:09.940 | for quote unquote regular people to do this.
00:35:13.600 | But here's the thing, no one else did it.
00:35:16.340 | She is the one who did it.
00:35:18.400 | And so there's no shame in taking responsibility,
00:35:23.400 | asking for forgiveness and moving on.
00:35:25.540 | That's the beauty of our religion, right?
00:35:27.500 | Is that it's centered on forgiveness
00:35:29.740 | and this idea that you can seek forgiveness
00:35:32.940 | and you can be redeemed.
00:35:34.360 | And so she sought that redemption in my conference
00:35:39.360 | and the daughter proclaimed that she would homeschool
00:35:42.100 | her little girl instead of sending her to school
00:35:44.440 | because she then recognized the damage that had been done
00:35:48.780 | to her relationship with her mother by the school.
00:35:53.280 | - Yes, yes.
00:35:54.760 | - And by the way, let's be clear.
00:35:56.780 | I don't know how far this is gonna go
00:35:58.940 | or who's going to listen to it.
00:36:00.520 | I do not blame teachers.
00:36:02.320 | I think teachers are caught in a system.
00:36:04.520 | - Right.
00:36:05.360 | - And by and large, there are a lot of teachers
00:36:08.160 | who are just keeping their heads down
00:36:10.300 | and trying to keep their paychecks and stuff.
00:36:12.920 | And I understand that.
00:36:14.420 | So I don't go after teachers at all.
00:36:19.580 | But I do go after the system and I have been quoted
00:36:23.420 | as saying that they do wanna have sex
00:36:25.200 | with your children in school.
00:36:27.120 | - Yeah, I know what you mean by that.
00:36:29.220 | - I was quoted at a school board meeting.
00:36:32.280 | - Take that one out of context and run with it, yeah.
00:36:34.980 | - Yeah, exactly.
00:36:36.700 | The pornography and the grooming that is happening
00:36:39.820 | in our schools right now is, it's mind boggling really.
00:36:43.940 | I'm so disheartened by it and frustrated
00:36:49.820 | that parents are so uneducated,
00:36:53.460 | and I don't use that term lightly,
00:36:55.240 | but they are so schooled and not educated
00:36:59.200 | that they cannot see the writing on the wall.
00:37:01.580 | - I do wanna let our listeners know
00:37:05.260 | that Miracle in East Texas is now streaming
00:37:08.780 | and you can use the discussion guide.
00:37:13.380 | You can dive deeper into the themes
00:37:16.300 | and the colorful characters of Miracle in East Texas.
00:37:20.240 | You can have some really thought-provoking conversations
00:37:23.100 | with your kids.
00:37:24.860 | You can download the free discussion guide
00:37:28.540 | and it's a really long link name.
00:37:31.420 | So, listeners, the link is posted in the show notes.
00:37:36.780 | So, this is a perfect Friday night thing to do
00:37:39.740 | with your family this week.
00:37:40.980 | Stream Miracle in East Texas,
00:37:43.060 | download the discussion guide and have at it.
00:37:45.780 | Go and build some great conversations with your family.
00:37:50.580 | (gentle music)
00:37:53.160 | you
00:37:55.220 | [BLANK_AUDIO]