Everyday Educator - What Teaching Children Teaches Me
00:00:00.000 | (soft music)
00:00:02.420 | - Welcome friends to this episode
00:00:06.440 | of the Everyday Educator Podcast.
00:00:09.200 | I'm your host, Lisa Bailey,
00:00:10.880 | and I'm excited to spend some time with you today
00:00:14.160 | as we encourage one another, learn together,
00:00:17.780 | and ponder the delights and challenges
00:00:20.600 | that make homeschooling the adventure of a lifetime.
00:00:24.240 | Whether you're just considering
00:00:26.480 | this homeschooling possibility,
00:00:28.560 | or deep into the daily delight of family learning,
00:00:32.680 | I believe you'll enjoy thinking along with us.
00:00:36.560 | But don't forget, although this online community is awesome,
00:00:41.520 | you'll find even closer support in a local CC community.
00:00:46.520 | So go to classicalconversations.com
00:00:51.680 | and find a community near you today.
00:00:57.200 | Well, listeners, I'm excited to welcome you
00:00:59.800 | to this episode of Everyday Educator
00:01:02.440 | because I have a great guest with me today
00:01:06.920 | who is going to share with us
00:01:09.520 | a little bit about how homeschooling your children
00:01:15.400 | helps you as a parent restore your own education,
00:01:20.400 | but it also teaches you a lot about yourself.
00:01:24.600 | And so I am excited to talk
00:01:27.620 | to my friend Cynthia Knotts today.
00:01:30.080 | You are gonna be so glad that you got to know Cynthia.
00:01:33.880 | She's a mom and a tutor and a musician
00:01:38.640 | and a violin teacher and a reader and a lifelong learner.
00:01:43.640 | And so she's got lots of wisdom for us.
00:01:46.940 | And we're just gonna spend the next few minutes
00:01:49.480 | talking about what teaching children
00:01:54.600 | teaches us.
00:01:55.760 | And I'm glad that you're here to listen along.
00:01:57.440 | Cynthia, thanks so much for talking to me today.
00:02:00.880 | - Thanks for having me.
00:02:02.480 | - I'm excited to get to know a little bit of your backstory.
00:02:07.480 | What kind of student were you growing up?
00:02:11.880 | Did you like school?
00:02:13.200 | - So yeah, I did really like school,
00:02:16.400 | especially in the earlier years.
00:02:18.840 | I'm a public school product.
00:02:21.620 | I walked to the elementary school a block from my house
00:02:24.900 | and got to walk with my older brother when I was younger.
00:02:28.160 | And then I got to be the big kid
00:02:29.480 | and accompany my younger brother.
00:02:31.840 | And my parents did a really good job setting a culture
00:02:36.840 | of learning and education in the home.
00:02:39.980 | - Wow, that's cool.
00:02:41.460 | - Yeah, it was great.
00:02:43.160 | I tell them sometimes that they actually gave us
00:02:46.740 | a classical homeschool education and never realized it.
00:02:50.720 | - Yes, didn't know what they were doing for you.
00:02:52.920 | - Yeah, and we supplemented that with our public education.
00:02:57.760 | So, but yeah, I did like school.
00:03:00.400 | I was usually a pretty good student on top of things,
00:03:05.400 | but I definitely did notice a shift as I got to high school.
00:03:09.120 | Even though I still enjoyed learning,
00:03:11.440 | I was much more focused on getting the GPA
00:03:15.200 | that I thought I had to get.
00:03:17.800 | So I followed in the footsteps of my very bright
00:03:22.040 | older brother who ended up going to Harvard
00:03:25.360 | and put a lot of pressure on myself.
00:03:28.120 | So it became more about keeping the GPA
00:03:31.280 | when I was in high school.
00:03:32.240 | - Yeah, and I'm guessing that your parents
00:03:34.660 | didn't put that pressure on you
00:03:36.540 | so much as you put it on yourself.
00:03:38.600 | - Yeah, not at all, not at all.
00:03:41.120 | - Well, what did you love to learn?
00:03:43.720 | I want to see how similar we are.
00:03:45.760 | What did you like to stay?
00:03:47.600 | Or were you one of those well-rounded students
00:03:51.480 | who liked everything or were there things
00:03:54.560 | you liked the most?
00:03:55.960 | - I think now there's a lot more things I like
00:03:59.700 | than I did then.
00:04:00.540 | - Oh, wow, that's such a good way to have become.
00:04:03.440 | - Yeah, I was not always a huge fan
00:04:08.200 | of the science courses I took.
00:04:10.760 | And I was not always a huge fan
00:04:13.440 | of the history courses I took.
00:04:15.440 | But I loved anything literature and math.
00:04:19.280 | I absolutely loved math.
00:04:21.080 | It came easily to me.
00:04:22.400 | I really liked it, at least up until the end.
00:04:26.480 | And I was, of course, always involved
00:04:28.920 | in a lot of music stuff.
00:04:30.120 | So I think my senior year of high school,
00:04:32.960 | three of my seven courses were music-related.
00:04:36.280 | I was in band orchestra and I took a music history class.
00:04:39.760 | - Oh, wow, so you found your passion and your love
00:04:43.040 | and you pursued it.
00:04:45.000 | That's really good.
00:04:46.280 | Do you remember, how did you,
00:04:49.440 | 'cause I was a product, I am a product also
00:04:52.980 | of public school education.
00:04:55.240 | And one of the things that I remember about my high school
00:05:00.240 | was that subjects were fairly compartmentalized.
00:05:04.000 | I mean, we hardly ever talked about history
00:05:08.840 | in science class.
00:05:10.580 | And I don't remember talking about anything
00:05:14.820 | but math in my math class.
00:05:16.960 | So there were very much watertight bulkheads.
00:05:20.880 | What about for you?
00:05:23.480 | - I would say mostly that was true.
00:05:25.960 | Maybe not always completely.
00:05:28.120 | There would be some things that would come up here and there.
00:05:32.800 | - Yes.
00:05:34.320 | - But yeah, I mean, different teacher for every course.
00:05:38.280 | And yeah, it was mostly compartmentalized,
00:05:43.020 | maybe not airtight.
00:05:45.080 | - Right, right.
00:05:46.880 | So in your high school, did you, was it mostly lecture
00:05:51.040 | that your teachers mostly gave you notes that you took
00:05:55.060 | or did you do a lot of discussing?
00:05:58.680 | Was it a lot of reading?
00:06:00.640 | What method?
00:06:02.040 | - It really depended on the teacher.
00:06:04.240 | - Yes.
00:06:05.080 | - I do remember some classes
00:06:07.480 | and actually sometimes it would depend on the day.
00:06:09.840 | I remember a history class I had where,
00:06:12.700 | yeah, some days we would walk in
00:06:14.200 | and the entire chalkboard was filled with notes.
00:06:19.200 | - Oh my word, I had that same teacher.
00:06:21.700 | (laughing)
00:06:23.840 | - So he would talk through
00:06:26.300 | what he had already written on the board.
00:06:27.920 | I don't know how long it must've taken him.
00:06:29.840 | - Oh my word, yes. - But he would talk through it
00:06:32.800 | and we would copy it down and it would be a lecture.
00:06:36.420 | But then another day we would come in
00:06:38.720 | and all the desks would be circled up
00:06:41.280 | and we would have a much more conversational day
00:06:45.540 | in the classroom that day.
00:06:46.500 | So with that teacher, it was a mixture.
00:06:49.700 | - That's cool. - With other teachers, yeah.
00:06:51.560 | With other teachers, it was probably more lecture heavy
00:06:54.660 | with the occasional conversation thrown in.
00:06:58.140 | And then I remember my AP English teacher
00:07:02.780 | had us do this mysterious thing
00:07:06.540 | that he called Socratic circles.
00:07:08.620 | - Oh my goodness, a precursor to your classical education.
00:07:13.240 | - Yes, yes, but it was great.
00:07:15.520 | Senior year, AP English,
00:07:17.840 | reading some really good literature
00:07:19.300 | and that class was a lot more conversation heavy.
00:07:22.120 | - Uh-huh, uh-huh.
00:07:23.300 | Well, let me ask you this.
00:07:24.300 | So you had a little bit of lecture,
00:07:26.020 | a little bit of discussion,
00:07:27.340 | a little bit of Socratic circles.
00:07:29.120 | How did you learn best?
00:07:32.420 | What was your favorite learning style
00:07:34.600 | or the most effective for you?
00:07:37.140 | - I would say probably conversation.
00:07:40.100 | Lectures, I think I would get too caught up
00:07:43.600 | with trying to write all the things down.
00:07:46.040 | - Yes.
00:07:47.460 | - And reading, well, it would depend on what I was reading.
00:07:51.500 | - Sure, sure.
00:07:53.220 | - If it was a dry history text,
00:07:55.080 | it might just kind of wash over me.
00:07:57.140 | - Yes, passing your eyes over the words.
00:07:59.860 | - I would just look for the bold print.
00:08:01.940 | - Yes, chapter headings and section headings.
00:08:05.900 | - Yes, let's just get through this.
00:08:07.860 | - But in a conversation or if it were a teacher
00:08:11.180 | who was just very passionate
00:08:14.260 | about what they were talking about
00:08:15.420 | and getting really excited, even if it was a lecture style,
00:08:19.500 | having that excitement would really catch my attention.
00:08:24.500 | - Yes, that's so true.
00:08:27.020 | I did, I had a history teacher who got very excited
00:08:31.740 | about her subject sometimes
00:08:33.780 | and to the point where you wondered
00:08:36.460 | is she gonna, she would sometimes draw students
00:08:39.100 | into her hands-on history learning
00:08:42.380 | and it could be a little intense,
00:08:44.420 | but she really did make you think
00:08:49.420 | and really did draw you into the subject.
00:08:51.620 | I think I would agree with you.
00:08:52.820 | I liked conversational learning the best too.
00:08:56.660 | So being the product of a public school education,
00:09:01.480 | what drew you and your husband, Tim, to homeschooling?
00:09:06.120 | - It was a few things.
00:09:09.560 | Initially, it was seeing families in our church
00:09:12.520 | who were homeschooling.
00:09:14.220 | It was probably about a half and half split
00:09:17.160 | when we were dating, engaged, newlywed.
00:09:21.300 | And there were enough that were homeschooling
00:09:26.300 | that we could see what the kids were like
00:09:29.840 | and what was going on.
00:09:32.100 | Tim was much more hesitant about homeschooling than I was.
00:09:36.220 | - Isn't that funny?
00:09:37.060 | My husband was too.
00:09:39.060 | What was Tim's hesitation?
00:09:42.140 | - Oh, homeschoolers are weird.
00:09:43.760 | - Yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:09:47.920 | - So, but there were not very many when we were growing up.
00:09:51.300 | I knew a few and they were mostly kids
00:09:53.940 | who were pretty serious about music
00:09:56.020 | and needed more time to practice.
00:09:57.800 | - Gotcha.
00:09:58.640 | - Which has its own level of weirdness.
00:10:00.540 | - Right, right.
00:10:01.380 | But that was a different kind of concern, maybe,
00:10:04.100 | than what would, 'cause you don't know about your kids yet
00:10:07.060 | when you're just considering them.
00:10:08.460 | - Oh, yeah.
00:10:09.300 | - Just all academic thought.
00:10:11.420 | - Yeah, so we got to see it in action.
00:10:13.500 | And there was one family in particular
00:10:16.040 | that had been very, they had been mentors to us
00:10:21.040 | all through our dating and our engagement.
00:10:24.460 | And Gustav actually composed my bridal march for me.
00:10:28.760 | - Oh, how lovely.
00:10:30.520 | - Yeah, so they were really close friends
00:10:32.120 | and I was involved in Bible study with Nancy
00:10:35.680 | and they were classically homeschooling their,
00:10:39.360 | at the time, four kids or three kids and a baby.
00:10:42.700 | And being in Nancy's house for Bible study
00:10:47.620 | on Friday mornings, we would start our study early, 6.30,
00:10:52.560 | and the kids would get up.
00:10:53.860 | Actually, I think she usually had the nursing baby
00:10:55.880 | and then the kids would come up and get up
00:10:58.680 | and come downstairs and pull out their copywork
00:11:01.620 | and their cursive and just get right to work.
00:11:04.460 | And so I was seeing this happen in the house
00:11:06.680 | and I was intrigued and she was very much a user
00:11:11.680 | of the "Well Trained Mind" book.
00:11:14.120 | - Yes, yes.
00:11:15.480 | - So that was really our introduction
00:11:17.920 | to classical homeschool was watching
00:11:19.760 | this one particular family and seeing the culture
00:11:24.760 | in their home.
00:11:25.780 | - That's really cool.
00:11:26.780 | I can see how that lifestyle that you saw
00:11:30.500 | would be really appealing.
00:11:32.200 | So did you know a lot about classical education
00:11:38.540 | beyond the lifestyle that you saw in your friends
00:11:44.380 | before you really started homeschooling yourself?
00:11:50.060 | - Not really a whole lot.
00:11:51.600 | - Yeah.
00:11:52.440 | - No, I mean, I knew that it had to do
00:11:53.860 | with Greeks and Romans and Latin.
00:11:57.820 | And probably because once again with my parents
00:12:01.020 | setting this kind of classical education sneakily
00:12:06.020 | in our house growing up, we read things about ancient Rome
00:12:12.520 | and ancient Egypt and the Greek gods and all this stuff.
00:12:18.060 | So I knew it had something to do with that,
00:12:21.040 | but not much more.
00:12:22.400 | - Yep, so how did you find out more
00:12:25.500 | about classical education?
00:12:27.800 | - Well, my sister actually was already homeschooling
00:12:31.380 | her kids, both of my sisters homeschooled their children
00:12:34.780 | and in different styles and neither one a believer.
00:12:41.460 | But my oldest sister who was a, she was a classics major
00:12:44.880 | in college was pursuing a classical education
00:12:49.580 | at home with her kids.
00:12:51.560 | And so I was picking up a little bit from her
00:12:55.180 | and seeing what they were doing
00:12:56.420 | and she handed some resources to me.
00:12:58.460 | And both of her kids ended up going to Boston Latin
00:13:03.620 | for high school, which is a pretty prestigious
00:13:07.260 | Boston high school.
00:13:08.360 | I was like, huh, well, she must be doing something
00:13:13.180 | pretty good with them.
00:13:15.280 | And then once again, through this family,
00:13:18.480 | starting to learn more about what they were doing.
00:13:21.880 | And then I read "The Well-Trained Mind"
00:13:24.380 | and then I went and visited a CC campus.
00:13:27.880 | - Okay. - And I was hooked.
00:13:30.300 | I was hooked very quickly.
00:13:34.580 | My oldest Adele was just shy of four.
00:13:41.540 | So yeah, it was a couple months before her fourth birthday.
00:13:46.540 | And my friend, a couple of my friends from church
00:13:50.560 | were involved in this new thing in central Connecticut
00:13:55.100 | and invited me to go observe.
00:13:58.300 | I think it was the final week of the semester of the year,
00:14:02.140 | week 24. - Oh wow, yeah.
00:14:04.580 | - And so I took Adele and my toddler
00:14:10.020 | and my three month old, two month old nursing baby.
00:14:14.140 | - Oh my goodness, oh my goodness.
00:14:16.940 | - We walked in and sat there
00:14:18.940 | for the new grammar in foundations.
00:14:23.080 | And one girl was, I think was preparing for memory master.
00:14:27.460 | She was only five and my jaw was dropping
00:14:30.920 | listening to her recite the first 12 elements
00:14:34.040 | of the periodic table.
00:14:36.100 | - Uh-huh, yep. - But what actually,
00:14:40.140 | what actually struck me there was how much
00:14:43.280 | like Suzuki violin this was. - Oh.
00:14:45.900 | - And I was like, I like this, I want this.
00:14:49.860 | Let me wait one more year
00:14:51.980 | because I've got lots of little kids right now.
00:14:55.780 | So I waited one more year and then we started
00:14:59.460 | and I might be getting ahead in your questions here,
00:15:01.840 | but I started tutoring. - That's okay.
00:15:03.340 | - I started tutoring right off the bat.
00:15:05.580 | So first year in, I was tutoring
00:15:07.520 | and I was newly pregnant with number four.
00:15:09.740 | - Oh my goodness. (laughing)
00:15:12.600 | Okay, so what made you want to tutor right away
00:15:17.600 | and what gave you the shot in the arm?
00:15:23.620 | Because, you know, Cynthia, that's a lot to take on,
00:15:26.980 | pregnant with all these little kids.
00:15:29.360 | What made you want it that badly?
00:15:32.460 | - Well, first of all, I didn't know yet,
00:15:35.700 | I don't think I knew yet about being pregnant
00:15:37.780 | when I got asked to tutor.
00:15:39.260 | So that came a very short time later.
00:15:42.800 | But no, my friend was directing.
00:15:47.300 | It was her first year directing
00:15:49.660 | and she needed another tutor and she already knew me.
00:15:54.660 | We go to church together and I don't think
00:16:00.560 | I was teaching her daughter violin yet,
00:16:03.020 | but she knew that I taught violin.
00:16:05.120 | And so she, for some reason had some confidence in me
00:16:09.260 | that I would be able to do this.
00:16:11.660 | And I was really curious and I was willing to help out
00:16:15.420 | because I knew I wanted to do this.
00:16:16.980 | And I went to practicum and was very confused
00:16:21.980 | about all these new things I was hearing,
00:16:26.560 | but I was excited to do it.
00:16:29.980 | - And I remember the first practicum I ever went to.
00:16:32.960 | And it was so long ago that it was nothing
00:16:35.180 | like practicum is now.
00:16:36.480 | It was so long ago that it was me and 23 other women
00:16:40.700 | sitting in a second story, un-air-conditioned
00:16:44.460 | Sunday school room with Lee talking for six hours,
00:16:49.020 | it felt like straight, making swiggle marks
00:16:51.820 | all over the whiteboard, so excited.
00:16:55.560 | And I came home and I know how you feel.
00:16:58.020 | My head was spinning.
00:16:59.500 | There were all these new words
00:17:01.260 | and there was all this new enthusiasm.
00:17:03.380 | And I was drawing little, no lie, math diagrams
00:17:06.980 | on a cocktail napkin to my husband.
00:17:09.640 | And he's like, "What has happened to you
00:17:12.300 | that you were talking to me about math?"
00:17:14.100 | So I understand practicum can make you excited
00:17:17.760 | to do big, hairy, audacious things.
00:17:20.620 | And you don't realize that you're doing something
00:17:24.620 | very compelling, but maybe, like you would say,
00:17:29.620 | in over your head.
00:17:31.680 | But were you in over your head?
00:17:35.740 | Did you love tutoring?
00:17:38.060 | - Oh yeah, I did.
00:17:40.040 | I mean, I was so nervous that first day.
00:17:42.140 | - Yes, of course, 'cause it's new.
00:17:44.980 | - Yeah, it was new, but I was used to that feeling
00:17:49.460 | because each year when I would start up
00:17:52.000 | my new violin group class, and sometimes it would be
00:17:56.520 | five or six little four-year-olds or something,
00:17:59.520 | and I would still be nervous the first time.
00:18:01.500 | So I knew I would get over that.
00:18:03.860 | - Well, that is good.
00:18:05.040 | So you knew that you just had to jump in and start
00:18:09.120 | in order for it to ever get better, yeah.
00:18:12.920 | What did you like about tutoring in those early days?
00:18:16.680 | - Well, see, I tutored the Abecedarians
00:18:19.640 | my first year in, Adele was five,
00:18:22.620 | and then my son was in the toddler room,
00:18:25.180 | and I think my one-year-old by then was in the nursery.
00:18:29.680 | And those little kids are just so cute.
00:18:33.020 | - Yes. - Oh my goodness.
00:18:34.260 | They are so cute. - And so enthusiastic.
00:18:37.100 | - Yes, and so I just loved working with them.
00:18:42.100 | I actually kind of loved the challenge
00:18:45.860 | for anybody who's ever tutored an Abecedarian class,
00:18:49.840 | the little four and five-year-olds.
00:18:51.780 | I love the challenge of trying to introduce
00:18:55.360 | their memory work in ways that their little mouths
00:19:01.040 | can just wrap around these big words
00:19:04.140 | and remember these big words.
00:19:05.460 | So sometimes it means coming up with hand motions
00:19:08.600 | that have nothing to do with what the thing actually means.
00:19:11.860 | It's just what the word sounds like.
00:19:13.580 | - Right, and it's something they can hold on to, yeah, yeah.
00:19:17.420 | - So I love that creative challenge.
00:19:20.180 | - I wanna ask you this question,
00:19:21.940 | and it's not so much because I think
00:19:24.460 | that you worried about it,
00:19:28.540 | but I have talked to a lot of parents
00:19:33.040 | on my campus through the years
00:19:35.780 | who weighed should I tutor, should I not tutor,
00:19:40.700 | and I've had lots of people worry
00:19:43.500 | that the time it would take to prepare,
00:19:48.380 | the time it would take to tutor in community
00:19:51.840 | would take too much time away from teaching their own kids.
00:19:56.140 | Did you ever worry that tutoring
00:19:58.300 | would take something away from your own children?
00:20:02.040 | - Not, well, yes and no.
00:20:03.840 | - Uh-huh.
00:20:04.900 | - I think it's always been something that I've considered,
00:20:08.020 | but at the same time, I've never known CC without tutoring.
00:20:13.100 | - Yes, yes.
00:20:14.540 | - Really, we just need to get people
00:20:16.220 | in the classroom right away, and then they'll never know.
00:20:19.160 | (laughing)
00:20:20.720 | - Then they don't know that there's any other way.
00:20:23.460 | - Yeah, no, I mean, it has been something
00:20:27.180 | that I've considered, but probably much more
00:20:30.620 | when I did step up into challenge.
00:20:32.460 | - Mm, okay.
00:20:34.100 | - But at the same time, I know myself,
00:20:38.540 | and I know that if I am having to do my own personal prep,
00:20:43.540 | I'm going to be so much more on top
00:20:46.100 | of what my kids have to be doing.
00:20:48.800 | And so I did foundations for seven years, I think.
00:20:53.800 | - Wow, yes.
00:20:57.100 | - And yeah, and then I added essentials.
00:21:00.460 | So then I did both foundations and essentials for two years.
00:21:04.040 | And once I started tutoring essentials,
00:21:08.140 | I noticed myself being much more on top
00:21:10.900 | of the material with my own kids,
00:21:14.620 | not only being able to teach it better to them at home,
00:21:17.460 | but being on top of what the assignments were
00:21:20.440 | or what I wanted them to accomplish at home,
00:21:23.360 | what was really important and what was extra.
00:21:26.940 | - Oh, that's really good.
00:21:29.220 | That is really good.
00:21:30.240 | I think it does give you a nice perspective
00:21:34.540 | on what's important and what you could scale,
00:21:39.540 | what's essential and what you could scale.
00:21:43.340 | And it also, I think tutoring helps you see it
00:21:48.200 | from both sides of the fence.
00:21:50.020 | Like you know what it is to present the material,
00:21:55.020 | but also you're doing it at home with your own kids.
00:21:58.180 | So you know what it looks like
00:21:59.680 | from mama's side of the desk too.
00:22:03.940 | So that's kind of cool.
00:22:06.040 | So let me ask you this.
00:22:09.460 | And I know you just alluded to the fact
00:22:12.340 | that you have tutored foundations and essentials,
00:22:15.560 | but you're a challenge tutor now, correct?
00:22:18.920 | - Yes.
00:22:19.760 | - And so how is that different?
00:22:23.540 | How is that different preparation wise?
00:22:27.040 | And when you made the switch to tutoring challenge,
00:22:30.500 | did you worry again that your increased preparation time
00:22:35.300 | would rob your own family?
00:22:37.500 | - Yes, and probably more when I made the jump up
00:22:41.960 | because I'd been doing foundations for so long.
00:22:44.620 | It was, I had it down to just a very quick prep
00:22:49.620 | because I was so familiar with how it all worked
00:22:53.540 | and then I could spend more time with essentials,
00:22:55.960 | which was my newer thing.
00:22:57.860 | But yeah, that was definitely a big concern.
00:23:00.260 | But once again, I knew that it would help me
00:23:03.840 | be more on top of things.
00:23:06.420 | So my oldest had already done challenge A and challenge B.
00:23:11.220 | And then when she moved up to one,
00:23:14.940 | I graduated from foundations and essentials
00:23:18.580 | in our community and moved up to challenge one
00:23:20.840 | to be with her.
00:23:22.340 | And honestly, I think I probably could have been
00:23:28.140 | a much better teacher to her at home in challenge A
00:23:31.660 | and challenge B than I was.
00:23:33.740 | Of course, I think that happens with a lot of our oldest.
00:23:36.580 | - It does, they're just guinea pig.
00:23:38.280 | She just, have you not made the apology yet to Adele?
00:23:42.540 | - Oh, I'm so all the time.
00:23:44.960 | She actually told me to stop it.
00:23:47.100 | - You were my guinea pig and you just got whatever you got
00:23:50.140 | and I'm sorry.
00:23:50.980 | - And she's like, stop saying that, you're fine.
00:23:53.940 | You're doing fine.
00:23:54.820 | - Oh, that's so good though.
00:23:58.060 | But yeah, I mean, being in the challenge one class with her,
00:24:03.060 | I was much more involved and maybe not sitting down
00:24:08.220 | and doing all the work next to her,
00:24:12.300 | but I was much more aware and much more involved
00:24:15.660 | in knowing what was going on and what the expectations were.
00:24:19.220 | And yeah, it was good, it was really good.
00:24:22.140 | - Well, and you knew what it took you to learn
00:24:25.340 | and master that material.
00:24:26.880 | So you actually did know better what you were asking of her
00:24:30.240 | as a student, since you were preparing yourself.
00:24:33.920 | - Yes.
00:24:34.760 | - What kind of lessons have you learned from tutoring?
00:24:39.760 | - Oh, lots.
00:24:40.920 | Well, I've learned how to be a better teacher to my kids,
00:24:49.360 | knowing what's coming up.
00:24:54.320 | So when my oldest moved into challenge A and B,
00:24:57.740 | and I was already getting a taste
00:25:00.220 | of what those challenge years had to offer,
00:25:04.080 | and that helped me,
00:25:06.260 | that actually changed the way I approached some things
00:25:09.940 | with my essentials and my foundations students.
00:25:13.460 | And then once again, once I was tutoring and directing
00:25:18.160 | and getting all the extra benefits of those
00:25:22.380 | through training and conversations with my SR
00:25:27.380 | and being mentored by people like Heather Lee Sylvia
00:25:32.620 | and Jennifer Devorex and Stephanie Wilburn,
00:25:35.900 | all these people who had such more years of wisdom.
00:25:39.720 | And I had access to all these things
00:25:42.220 | as a challenge director.
00:25:44.420 | It helped me even better go back to my foundations
00:25:48.780 | and essential students to teach them
00:25:51.620 | in a much more directed way.
00:25:53.780 | - Yeah, that's really key.
00:25:57.460 | That's really insightful too.
00:25:59.880 | You know how to help your students prepare
00:26:05.540 | when you know what they're preparing for.
00:26:08.900 | And you know where all of these building blocks,
00:26:13.040 | you know how the building blocks are being assembled
00:26:16.560 | and what they're gonna end up looking like.
00:26:19.260 | And so, yeah, it does make you a more comprehensive mom
00:26:24.260 | and comprehensive teacher
00:26:28.140 | because you know what's happening.
00:26:30.900 | What has been your favorite aspect of tutoring?
00:26:34.900 | What's been the best aspect of tutoring?
00:26:37.360 | I mean, any kind of tutoring, foundations, essentials,
00:26:40.580 | challenge, you're superwoman and have done it all.
00:26:43.020 | So what's the best aspect of tutoring for you?
00:26:49.100 | - Definitely not superwoman.
00:26:50.900 | But that's hard to pick a best one.
00:26:56.540 | - Yeah.
00:26:57.620 | - I might have to go with two that are coming to mind first.
00:27:01.540 | One is really, I mean, as I said at the beginning,
00:27:06.540 | I really did enjoy learning as a kid.
00:27:09.140 | I still enjoy it now.
00:27:11.180 | And so getting to learn all this stuff,
00:27:13.540 | either relearn it and be reminded of it
00:27:18.120 | or learn it for the first time
00:27:20.480 | or learn it a whole lot better than I did is really cool.
00:27:24.560 | And with all the challenge reading that I'm trying to do
00:27:28.060 | to be on top of it as a director,
00:27:30.960 | I'm loving going back and being quote forced
00:27:34.140 | to read these books, but they're so good.
00:27:38.540 | - Yes.
00:27:39.620 | - Or dig into things that I never got
00:27:42.520 | in my education growing up.
00:27:44.100 | So I love the whole redeeming my own education.
00:27:48.100 | But then my other thing that came to mind immediately
00:27:52.020 | when you said that was those little Abecedarians
00:27:55.820 | in presentation time, you just cannot beat that.
00:27:59.120 | They are just so delightful.
00:28:00.960 | And I think I was just the most amused and entertained
00:28:05.820 | and just loving those little kids during presentation time.
00:28:12.180 | Just hearing the things that they would bring in
00:28:14.260 | and they're all smiles and all excitement.
00:28:16.980 | And I nearly had a big frog jump on me once
00:28:20.620 | and it was just very entertaining.
00:28:23.400 | And the costumes that they come up with,
00:28:25.840 | I just love those little littles.
00:28:28.420 | They're really neat.
00:28:29.700 | - They are really fun.
00:28:30.860 | And just like, one of the reasons we decided to homeschool
00:28:35.860 | is because I really loved seeing
00:28:40.140 | all those light bulb moments.
00:28:41.940 | I liked being the one that watched my little girl's eyes
00:28:46.020 | light up when they made a connection for the first time
00:28:49.200 | or figured something out.
00:28:50.580 | And it was so much fun to watch students really
00:28:55.580 | of any level, because I tutored Challenge B
00:28:59.300 | for almost 10 years.
00:29:01.000 | And watching B students do a proof and logic
00:29:08.360 | for the first time and realize that they had connected
00:29:12.340 | all the dots and gotten it right was the biggest buzz for me
00:29:17.340 | and to watch them succeed, to watch them do a mock trial
00:29:23.760 | and feel really confident and come through that
00:29:28.940 | with such flying colors and watch their confidence grow
00:29:32.320 | was such a high for me as a tutor.
00:29:37.520 | I think that it is a blessing for all of us
00:29:40.560 | who get to tutor.
00:29:41.940 | - Yeah, there's so many, so many neat things about it.
00:29:45.240 | And now that you're saying that just so many more things
00:29:48.700 | are coming to mind, but I can't say all of them.
00:29:51.900 | - But say another, say another if you've thought of it.
00:29:54.980 | I would love to hear it.
00:29:56.520 | - So being in Challenge II this year with my oldest,
00:30:00.500 | there's these magical things that happen in Challenge II
00:30:03.060 | as they start to get their feet under them
00:30:06.140 | as young adults and thinking more deep thoughts.
00:30:11.140 | And so in the past few weeks, I've been able to sit back
00:30:15.240 | and enjoy some of the conversations that they're taking over
00:30:19.680 | and talking about things like does every story
00:30:22.800 | have to have a moral?
00:30:24.160 | Well, what is a moral?
00:30:27.040 | How do we know what the moral is?
00:30:29.240 | - Uh-huh.
00:30:30.720 | - Yes, I told them in Aesop's Fable and I said,
00:30:32.840 | "Well, tell me what the moral is."
00:30:34.160 | And they came up with several answers.
00:30:36.800 | So I gave them this snarky response that,
00:30:39.600 | "Well, really what we learned from this is that
00:30:42.520 | "you should look for the suckers in the world
00:30:44.680 | "and take advantage of them by flattering them."
00:30:47.260 | And they all immediately said, "No, that's not right."
00:30:49.900 | (laughing)
00:30:51.700 | Which that helped us.
00:30:53.020 | - Yeah.
00:30:54.260 | - It helped us to better define what a moral is
00:30:57.560 | and that it has to be leading us towards virtue.
00:31:00.520 | So it was really neat to see them grapple with that.
00:31:04.060 | And a week or two before that,
00:31:06.140 | they were talking about salvation
00:31:10.100 | and God's sovereignty in that.
00:31:12.700 | And it was just really neat to see these big things
00:31:16.400 | coming from them.
00:31:19.820 | - That is so encouraging.
00:31:22.800 | I would say, listeners to all of you out there
00:31:26.480 | who are thinking, "Well, gosh, this sounds good.
00:31:29.520 | "Maybe I should tutor."
00:31:32.400 | I would tell you that you will learn so much.
00:31:37.400 | Well, in two ways.
00:31:41.960 | You will learn so much from the preparation that you do
00:31:46.960 | so that you are prepared to lead great conversations
00:31:51.960 | on community day.
00:31:54.600 | But you will learn so much from your students
00:31:59.600 | who will, no matter how well you prepare,
00:32:02.820 | who will come up with something you never thought of before
00:32:07.820 | or ask a question that you didn't plan the answer to,
00:32:12.080 | and they will get to watch you grapple on the spot.
00:32:16.260 | Okay, so maybe that doesn't sound like a good reason
00:32:20.140 | to tutor, but I'll tell you that it feels good
00:32:24.920 | to wrestle with a big question alongside your students
00:32:29.920 | that you have built a relationship with.
00:32:34.180 | And the best thing that you will ever teach them
00:32:38.600 | is that you are continuing to do the hard work
00:32:42.840 | of learning new things too.
00:32:46.320 | - Yes, definitely, definitely.
00:32:48.920 | See, modeling for them, the struggle it is,
00:32:53.920 | the struggle it is to learn something new
00:32:56.960 | or to figure out what you think about something
00:33:00.880 | that you haven't had time to think about before seminar
00:33:04.240 | is so good for them because they need to know
00:33:07.240 | that we don't have all the answers and we're still working.
00:33:11.160 | We're still trying. - Yes, and that it's okay
00:33:14.400 | that we don't, I never, and it was difficult for me
00:33:17.820 | because I'm one of these type A people that like everything,
00:33:20.820 | like I don't like to do something I don't already know
00:33:23.360 | will be successful 'cause it just bothers me.
00:33:26.760 | And so I had to get over myself
00:33:29.240 | when I became a challenge tutor
00:33:31.880 | because they are gonna ask me a question
00:33:34.640 | that I don't know the answer to
00:33:36.760 | or that I don't know the answer to yet.
00:33:40.400 | And so I love the whole idea that we are teaching them
00:33:44.560 | that your whole life is about continuing to learn.
00:33:49.920 | And the best learner is somebody who is comfortable
00:33:54.920 | with not knowing yet.
00:33:59.100 | And so I think that what teaching children taught me
00:34:05.340 | is that there's always more to learn
00:34:09.820 | and that we can learn a lot from one another
00:34:14.820 | if we'll just have a conversation.
00:34:17.860 | - I love it.
00:34:21.020 | Let me ask you, I have one more question for you.
00:34:22.940 | If you can stand one more question for me, Cynthia.
00:34:26.100 | What has a classical education given your family?
00:34:32.020 | - There can be a lot there in that answer.
00:34:37.680 | I think I'll have to pick and choose here.
00:34:42.220 | I would say it's given us a direction
00:34:46.880 | in our family culture.
00:34:48.240 | We've always valued certain things in our family
00:34:55.800 | and both Tim and I grew up with parents who loved us
00:35:00.800 | and cared about us and cared about our education.
00:35:04.200 | And so we've been fortunate to bring some of those things
00:35:07.680 | into our family.
00:35:09.020 | So we've always had way too many books for our bookshelves.
00:35:12.880 | - Yes, us too, yep.
00:35:15.720 | - Conversations around the dinner table
00:35:19.040 | and things like that.
00:35:19.880 | But I think the classical education kind of helps tie
00:35:24.120 | some of that together and it helps flavor the culture
00:35:29.120 | that we have in our home, in the Knotts household.
00:35:33.900 | I'm also so thankful that I'm married to somebody
00:35:39.640 | who is totally in and I mean, even more than supportive,
00:35:44.920 | he takes on the reins, he does so much.
00:35:48.020 | I mean, he's very involved and I know not everybody
00:35:53.020 | has quite that level of support in their homes
00:35:57.280 | and I'm really thankful for it
00:35:58.680 | because when we gather together as a family,
00:36:03.320 | we can talk all these nerdy things.
00:36:06.320 | - Yeah, and everybody be happy.
00:36:09.320 | - Yes, to steal my friend Heatherly's hashtag
00:36:14.320 | that she likes to use, we're nerds raising nerds.
00:36:17.480 | - That's right, that's right.
00:36:18.920 | - We're creating our nerd culture.
00:36:21.360 | - Yes, yes, I have frequently been sad
00:36:25.360 | that our family does not live close to your family
00:36:28.520 | 'cause then we could be nerds together.
00:36:30.480 | - Well, come on up for a visit.
00:36:32.920 | - That's right, you come on down, I'll come on up.
00:36:35.720 | We'll have high old time.
00:36:38.000 | Well, I really appreciate you sharing.
00:36:40.640 | I really wanted folks to hear what a homeschool mom
00:36:45.640 | who's fully invested in tutoring thinks
00:36:51.520 | about this classical education and thinks
00:36:54.360 | about being a tutor, but I was really interested
00:36:56.880 | in people hearing what you have learned about yourself
00:37:01.880 | and your children and education by being a tutor.
00:37:09.220 | So I appreciate you sharing tonight, Cynthia.
00:37:12.240 | - Can I give another encouragement
00:37:14.160 | to anybody who is considering?
00:37:16.120 | You don't have to know all the things, you don't.
00:37:20.880 | And I'm not just talking about the surprise questions
00:37:23.920 | that the kids might bring up that we talked about earlier,
00:37:27.380 | but really another thing that you can learn how to do
00:37:31.200 | is you learn your limits and you learn your capabilities
00:37:36.460 | and you can learn what is the important stuff
00:37:40.440 | that I do need to arm myself with to go in
00:37:43.520 | to have a successful day in seminar.
00:37:47.320 | And you really don't have to think
00:37:50.960 | that you have to know all the things
00:37:52.320 | 'cause trust me, you don't.
00:37:54.040 | You've got time to continue learning
00:37:56.680 | alongside your children.
00:37:58.500 | You don't have to learn everything before them.
00:38:01.300 | You can learn alongside them and secret,
00:38:04.280 | you can even learn behind them.
00:38:06.960 | And it's okay because it's the attitude
00:38:09.540 | of being that lifelong learner.
00:38:11.700 | So don't let the academic load scare you off
00:38:14.840 | because you're gonna be armed with great tools
00:38:19.440 | like definition, comparison, those five common topics.
00:38:24.440 | And it's doable.
00:38:27.960 | It's a good thing, it's hard work, but it's very good work.
00:38:31.420 | - Oh, that's a great encouragement.
00:38:34.140 | Thank you for sharing that.
00:38:35.740 | Parents, I hope that you feel encouraged.
00:38:39.440 | I hope that you are perhaps newly interested
00:38:44.440 | in pursuing life as a tutor in your local community.
00:38:49.480 | Whether you are looking to be a tutor
00:38:53.020 | or just looking to build a family culture of learning
00:38:57.520 | and ways to have more enjoyable conversations
00:39:02.520 | in your own home, I've got a reminder to you
00:39:07.200 | that we have something called the Copper Lodge Library,
00:39:10.840 | Classical Conversations publishes.
00:39:13.120 | And there are some new additions
00:39:16.000 | to the Copper Lodge Library coming out this spring.
00:39:21.000 | We will have our own version of Pride and Prejudice,
00:39:25.480 | our own imprint of Pride and Prejudice,
00:39:27.840 | the Secret Garden, and the Secret House.
00:39:31.200 | The Garden and a brand new offering
00:39:33.880 | called English Epic Poetry.
00:39:37.120 | So why does Classical Conversations
00:39:40.400 | offer the Copper Lodge Library?
00:39:43.800 | They are collections of stories
00:39:45.840 | that have built community throughout history.
00:39:49.800 | And we put them in a beautiful series of books
00:39:52.760 | that you can enjoy for the whole family.
00:39:55.400 | You can begin to build that family culture
00:39:59.120 | of reading and learning that Cynthia was talking about
00:40:02.680 | by reading these stories together
00:40:04.720 | and having really good conversations
00:40:07.200 | about wisdom and virtue.
00:40:10.040 | So check out the Copper Lodge Library.
00:40:12.880 | You can check out all of our offerings on ccbooks.com.
00:40:17.880 | And those three books, Pride and Prejudice,
00:40:20.920 | the Secret Garden, and English Epic Poetry
00:40:24.800 | are new this spring.
00:40:26.780 | So you'll be able to look for them soon.
00:40:28.720 | Cynthia, thank you again for this lovely conversation.
00:40:32.600 | And listeners, I will see you next time.
00:40:36.080 | Bye bye.
00:40:37.120 | (gentle music)
00:40:39.700 | (music fades)
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