>> Majority of the stuff that's on the Q&A here was answered in the first. And so I'm not sure if I need to answer all that because the questions that came in, for the most part, was for the first. So I'm just going to show the questions. And then we'll see.

Maybe this -- and then there's some questions that came out of you guys, and I'll definitely try to cover that. Okay? And then if you have any questions beyond that, because this is a smaller group, and if you want to deal with that, we'll try to deal with that.

So some of the stuff I'm just going to skip because it was relevant to them. It might be relevant to you, so if you want me to address it, I'll try to address it. Otherwise, we'll just move on. Okay? Then afterwards, I'll just -- you know, I told the first group that I'll give about 10 minutes to open questions, and ran out of time.

So I'm going to try to do that here, but no guarantee. I'm going to try to do that. All right. Let me pray for some stuff. Heavenly Father, we thank you for this opportunity, and we pray that you will bless this time so that the things that we discuss and try to answer, Lord God, would come from you, not from my thoughts, but that your word be expressed according to your purpose and will.

We thank you, Father Jesus, and we pray. Amen. Okay. The majority of this stuff is not for this group, but let me just do it anyway. Okay. We are Southern Baptist. Anybody have questions about that? Okay. Just to give you a quick overview, the way Southern Baptist is organized, it is local church autonomy, meaning that we don't have a governing board outside of our church that we submit to.

It is completely voluntary. Okay. Where are we going? We're going to record this, too. >> We're really close. We're really close. >> I'm going to mess you up. I'm going to -- >> Can you go back one? Go back one. >> All right. All right. That's good. All right.

So because it's local church autonomy, it's basically voluntary. So we support the local chapter of the Southern Baptist, so we give an offering about $200 a month, and they use that to help plant like-minded churches. So we've been Southern Baptist from the very beginning. I'm ordained Southern Baptist. We came out of a Southern Baptist church.

I was raised a Presbyterian, but then I became a Baptist because of my convictions and what I saw in scripture. So I got infant baptized and then rebaptized later on after I became a pastor. Even though we're Southern Baptist, the reason why I became Southern Baptist is because of the history, not because I want to partner with other churches, because in the local area, the Saddleback has so much influence.

They're Southern Baptist, and they have so much influence in the churches in our area, and I didn't feel like we fit in with that -- with the way that they did church. But because of Dr. Michael Proud, and who is the head of the Southern Baptist in our area, that we felt like he was really like-minded, and as a result of that, I went to India, got to know him, and that's how we got involved with the Southern Baptist.

And so because it's voluntary, we just kind of get involved with what we can, but our primary focus is just within the church, okay? And so we are involved, but not like a -- you know, those people who are heavily involved, they go to meeting every single week, like sometimes twice a week.

They do Easter services together. You know, they have pastoral retreats. We just -- I'm just not involved with that, right? But I do get involved with, if there is a like-minded church coming in, to try to support them, and then financially. And then we give to them. So if there's disasters, instead of just giving randomly, we give it to the Southern Baptist relief work.

So they'll usually contact the Southern Baptist Church, let's say in Florida, or somewhere that disaster happens, or Haiti. Remember when that earthquake happened? So we send finances to the Southern Baptist Board, and then they would send it to the local church in that area, and then they would use those funds to help the people, so that the funds aren't just going through random communities, going to Southern Baptist churches.

And then, because our Pastor Alex is coming under the Southern Baptist IMB, International Mission Board, so we used to give offering here and there, but once he gets in, he gets funded, our -- some part of our mission budget is going to be sent to the Southern Baptist, because they're supporting him.

It's not required. It's just voluntary. Okay. Okay, so this is for me. So replacement theology basically is a covenant theology versus dispensation. It's like, where does Israel stand? Our church's stance in that is that God still has a place for Israel. The church did not replace Israel. Church came alongside Israel, right?

And there's a big difference between the two. And there's a larger theology that requires more time to explain, which I'm not going to get into. But the reason why I believe that is because if you look at the Old Testament prophecies about what God is going to do with Israel, it's pretty clear that God is going to -- like, they've experienced a hardening of their heart and the judgment of God.

But at the period of the Messianic period, which we believe is the period of the millennium, that God is going to restore Israel. And so the language is pretty clear about that. So if you don't believe that, you have to interpret all of that allegorically. That when every time he mentions Israel being restored, Israel's king being restored, and they're going to go back to their land, all of that is interpreted allegorically and fulfilled in the church.

And the reason why they do that is because there are some passages in Galatians and other parts where it says a true Jew is one who is circumcised in the heart, right? And then in Romans chapter 9, it talks about how they experienced a hardening of the heart of the fullness of the Gentiles have come in, and then they're going to receive a revival.

So they interpret those passages as the church has completely replaced it, right? And this is something that's going to require more time, but I'll give you in a nutshell the couple things that convinced me that the Israel -- there is a place for Israel. One, if you look at all the prophecies of the coming of Christ, all of it was fulfilled literally.

Right? He came on a donkey. He was betrayed by the leaders. He was born in Bethlehem. So almost everything that the Jews are -- it's like, "Oh, this is crazy. Why would the Messiah suffer?" And they couldn't understand why. So when they didn't understand it, they interpreted it allegorically, right?

But if you look at the way the prophecy was interpreted and it was fulfilled, it was fulfilled literally, every part of it. So to me, it's inconsistent to look at the Old Testament prophecy, and then all of a sudden allegorize everything, considering how it was fulfilled in the New Testament.

And then if you go to the -- if you go to the End Times, the Book of Revelation, I think it's Revelation Chapter 5, we see a scene of worship, and it says 144,000 Jews, and then the nation standing behind them. So if at the end, if the Jews and the Gentiles are the same church, why do -- are they separated in identifying them as Jews and Gentiles at the end, right?

And so all through that, when we put that all together, yes, the church has been grafted into God's kingdom because God's people is not just Israel. God's people is everybody who confesses Christ as Lord and Savior, but within that, God has a special place for the nation of Israel, right?

And I believe that that is still going to be fulfilled at the end, and that's where the millennium comes in. Okay. In our church, we practice male leadership in our church as a fulfillment of 1 Corinthians Chapter 3 and 1 Corinthians -- 1 Timothy Chapter 2. And so we do have female deacons.

We've had female deacons, and -- but we do not have female elders in our church, okay? And I don't know if I need to go into details of that, but basically, this is one of those things that I wrestled with when I was in seminary because one of the first pastors that I really respected was a female pastor.

And so I used to drive down to the valley just to listen to her, and then so when I came upon this theology, it didn't make much sense to me. And then so I went, and I actually volunteered to do a paper on this. So in the class that I was at, they gave us an option to do a paper on any subject that we wanted, and I chose this subject because I was wrestling with this.

And the end conclusion was the Bible -- to me, was the Bible clearly teaches this. And this view is called complementarian, and where women have passed -- do pass it is called egalitarian view. And so we're complementarian, meaning that God had created men and women equal, equal in value, but complement in activity, right, just like the Trinity, right?

They have different roles, but they are equal in value, right? And so that's what we teach. So again, this -- this something requires a lot more attention. So if you wrestle with this and want more explanation, like I encourage you to come and talk to me personally. Okay. Okay.

I'm just going to explain what this is because this was not asked in this group. Open but cautious view basically is that we're open -- the charismatic gifts -- I don't see anything in the scripture that says it cannot happen, but anything that can happen must be biblical. It needs to meet the biblical standard.

So, you know, like does miracles happen? Of course. I don't think anybody will say -- even if you're a cessationist, will say that the gifts don't happen. But it needs to meet the biblical standard, right? Meaning that if somebody says they're going to prophesy, the prophecy has to be 100% accurate.

You can't be right 50% and wrong 50% because in the Old Testament they got stoned for that, right? And then if you're going to talk about spiritual gifts and somebody is healed, the healing has to meet the biblical standard. Meaning like it's not hidden. It's not something that they couldn't identify.

It's not something like, oh, you have to have faith to believe that. It has to live up to the biblical standard where even the non-Christians who didn't want to believe it couldn't deny it. That's the biblical standard that we see in the scripture, right? So the reason why I won't say I'm a cessationist is because I don't see anything in the scripture that says it cannot happen, right?

But much of what I see in the charismatic community today sometimes is very distracting because like you have to want to believe it. Right? So that's what an open but cautious view is. Again, you didn't ask this question so I'm not going to get too deep into that. KJV, no.

Okay. Okay, this was answered here. I'm just going to give you a short version of this. Why is corporate worship -- I mean, the fact that worship is central to the church and to our lives, I think I've spoken enough about it, right? That worship is what we were created for.

Worship was what was broken and worship is what is being restored. But the specific question is the corporate worship, right? If you study through the Old Testament, God doesn't see -- God doesn't speak to about an individual completely in isolation. He'll say, you know, like he's the son of somebody, right?

And he's always from the tribe of Benjamin, from the tribe of the Simeons. And so if you remember, in every Jew that identifies himself, identifies himself with his name, his family, and the tribe, and the nation of Israel. That's usually the pattern that they have, right? We live in an individualistic society where it's just kind of me and God, right?

The Bible doesn't look at it that way. In fact, every letter that he wrote to, almost every letter, okay, with the exception of maybe two or three was written to the church, right? And even in the Sabbath, the requirement for the Sabbath was the corporate body get together for the purpose of worship.

So it wasn't meant to be, "Oh, we're going to give Sabbath and go home and rest." The purpose of Sabbath was that they can rest from work so that they can gather for the purpose of worship, corporate worship. You know, scripture says, "Do not be in the habit of forsaking your own assembly, but gather together all the more as you see the day drawing near." So there's repeated pattern over and over again for the purpose of corporate worship, right?

Again, I could take a long time talking about this, but this is something that if you have more question about it, we can talk more about it, okay? So corporate worship is the most important. Worship is the reason why we are saved, and corporate worship is the most important of all the worship, okay?

It doesn't mean that private worship is not important, but above private worship, corporate worship needs to take center stage, right? That's why we ask like unless it's some kind of an emergency to do your best to attend corporate worship, and if you can't attend our local worship, to attend corporate worship somewhere else.

Let me get back to that. Okay, may I ask this? Is there human authority in the church? Yes, because the scripture says to submit to your elders, right? Is there human authority in the church? Is there -- did God appoint leaders and eventually deacons, and is there some kind of authority given in the church?

Absolutely. But how that authority is played out, right? But I think this question is more specific, not the corporate body of Christ. You're talking about a leader follower, a one-to-one kind of discipleship, right? Is there authority in that? Is there biblically given authority to somebody who's leading you in small group and discipling you?

There is nothing in scripture, right? There is nothing in scripture that creates a relationship where somebody who's older has that kind of authority over your life, right? Now, you can give them that authority because out of respect, but this is not a biblical mandate in scripture that if somebody is placed over you in your small group, that when they tell you you can't live here, that biblically you can't do that.

They do not have that kind of authority. So the only authority biblically established is the authority of the elders in the church, right? And that's why there's such a high standard for eldership for that purpose. And it says to not to lay hands hastily because to give that kind of authority to somebody who's immature and wielded very poorly and ends up, you know, destroying the conscience of many people, right?

Now, I know where this question is coming from because I came from a ministry where this was taught. Submit to your elders, to your leaders, and leaders were whoever was discipling you as your leader and you obey them absolutely. And that's part of the reason why I left that ministry because I didn't think that was biblical.

Even within the structure of leadership in the church, there's a warning to the elders not to lord it over their faith, right? Meaning that our authority that was given, it was given to us for the purpose of sacrificing, just like a leadership role in the family. And he said he's called to sacrifice for his wife.

So his role of leadership is to reflect what Jesus did. He humbled himself, got on his knees and washed their feet. And he said, "You guys do the same. So your apostolic authority is just like mine. Get on your knees and wash their feet," right? So the authority in the church is given for the purpose of protecting the church.

So there are certain things that we may say, "Hey, at the church we're just not going to allow this. And it's not because of my preference," that we believe, even if you disagree, we believe that this needs to be done for the purpose of protecting the church, for the church's own benefit, right?

Even if it is detrimental to us. So if a leader is afraid of criticism because he's afraid of his own reputation and rather live in peace with everybody, he can't lead properly. So part of what it means to be a leader is he has to make difficult decisions for the benefit of the church, for the purpose of benefiting the church, right?

Now, so we're talking biblically. So biblically, that's where the Bible leaves it, right? So individual people don't have authority over the other individual because you happen to be in their small group. We're called to serve one another. Now having said that, there's cultural, you know, if you happen to be a strictly, especially in the Korean community, the older versus younger, more experienced versus less, that's a cultural thing.

That's not a biblical mandate, right? And how much you give authority, how much you respect and honor, that's something that happens within that relationship, right? Just from experience, whether it's running the church or leading my wife or even raising my own kids, like anytime I say, "Hey, the Bible says you need to submit," I've already lost that person.

You know what I mean? If I have to use scripture to kind of like wave it and say, "You know, if you want to obey God, you better obey me." So, and if they're a committed Christian and they're committed to the scripture, they may, right? They may obey, but they're going to come kicking and screaming.

They're not partnering with you. They're not, you know, they're not going to be helpful. They're just doing it. Majority of the people won't even do it, right? So if ever I have to come to my wife and say, "Esther, I'm your husband, submit," I've already lost her. Right? So I'm not being a good leader.

A good leader will inspire someone to support you, right? So I've learned that, you know, even though the Bible does give me authority as a pastor, as a father, and as a husband, if I don't wield that in a humble manner, it actually will backfire on me. It doesn't benefit the church, and it doesn't benefit me, and it doesn't benefit my children, right?

So the best way to lead with authority is to do exactly what Jesus did. Learn to empty yourself. And every decision you make, you make sure that it's for their good. And sometimes they won't recognize it, right? Especially when you're raising kids. You have to make decisions that they don't like.

And at that moment, they'll be kicking and screaming, and you're not doing it for yourself. You're doing it for them. And a lot of times that happens in the church, too. We have to make decisions because we think this is best for the church, and you get a reaction from the church, and say, "But that's part of being a leader," right?

So again, biblical authority, one-to-one, there is no such thing. In fact, I think it's dangerous because you have that many people who are walking around. And the reason why we don't put leadership hastily is because once that person has that kind of authority, it ruins them. You tell an immature person, and you give them authority, they're not going to wield it in gentleness.

They're not going to wield it in humility. They're going to try to dominate people. And then they're going to say, "The Bible says," right? And it's not good for them. It's not good for the people underneath them. Okay, let me answer this, and then I'll just open it up to, you know, whatever questions that you guys might have.

This is such a large question because it depends on which pocket you're looking at. You can -- our church is big enough where you can look at one group and say, "Wow, you know, so encouraged. They're doing so many things, and they love Christ." And then you go over here and talk to these people, it's like, "Did they even hear what I said?" You know what I mean?

Like, and you can get -- I can get, like, such a large spectrum of response in the church where so encouraged to, "I don't want to do this anymore," like literally within the same day. So it really depends on which pocket, who I'm talking to, and what age bracket, and at what time of the day.

And then there's people who are strong when they were single, and then they struggle when they're married. And there's people who, you know, were struggling, and then they wake up when they get married. So, you know, it's kind of hard to say with one statement how the whole church is doing.

But generally, you know, I would say, you know, I'm very encouraged to see, especially with the new movement in the church, like where we are. I told our church leadership, like, some -- I don't know if anybody was here during that time. Joe was the only one who was here.

There's a -- there's a very handful, like maybe six or seven who are maybe less than 10 who are here that was there at that time. But it was right around the time when we were -- I was really struggling. I was going back and forth to Vegas, and I really didn't know if I was going to continue.

It was -- I was just month to month, and then SR and I made a decision. I think it was in December, and we said, "You know what? We're going to sell our house. We're going to try to just live off of whatever we get from that, and then at the end of next year, if we're at the same place," which we were completely expecting because our church is already six, seven years old at that time.

But at least we have nothing. We walk away with nothing in our pocket. I have no job, no money in the bank, three kids I got to feed. Then I could just, like, say, "Okay, what else can I do? I got to go get a job, and I got to take care of my family." And so we made that decision.

We came out, and about one-third of the church left. Instead of growing, we actually had people say, "Okay, now it's time to leave," so they left. But the thing is, every time one person left, another person would come in. And so in about five, six-month period, we had the same number of people, but half the church was completely different.

And so anybody who was kind of, like, on the fridge, and they weren't taking their faith seriously, or they're on their way out, they left. And then the new people came in were brand-new converts. They weren't, like, necessarily strong Christians, but they were either brand-new converts, or even non-Christians came in, but they were hungry.

And then the people who remained, which are the people who are here now, they eventually, obviously, became leaders in the church. And so the church environment changed radically, right? So right around that time, I remember we -- that's when we had Ray Cosley come, and he gave our first retreat.

It was, like, six, seven years into the church, we had our very first retreat. And the reason why is because I was working. I just didn't have time, right? And it was just down the street from here. It wasn't Best Western. It was a -- if you look at the room that we were in, it was literally, like, here up to here.

That was our meeting hall. He preached up there, and then we sat back here, and that's how our meeting was. And then we walked across the street to a hometown buffet for breakfast and lunch. Yeah, every day, because we couldn't cook, so it was right across the street. So we got so tired of that food.

But right around that time, we were praying, and just the spiritual environment of the church, and not because we were mature, but type of excitement in the church completely -- there was an overhaul in the church, and I remember telling the church that, like, not that we were going to grow, but this is a church that I would bring my family to.

Prior to that, I couldn't say that with confidence. Like, if I invited people to our church, I felt like I was asking them to do me a favor to come to my church, and I just couldn't do that. Right? If it's not a church that I would send my daughter to, I'm not going to ask you to come either.

And so we didn't do anything to grow the church, because I just felt like spiritually, we just weren't there. And then right in that six-month period, we felt like, this is a church that I think I would bring people to, you know? Not for me, but because I think it would benefit them because of the fellowship of the church and everything.

Sure enough, we did nothing, right? Joke contest, but we did absolutely nothing different. It's just from June to December, the church almost doubled in size. And again, you have to understand, like, for five, six years, we were the exact same. So why do we think that all of a sudden this is going to change?

Because the church changed. It was a completely different environment in the church. There was a hunger growing in the church. I shared with our leadership that that's the sense that I get right now in our church, that there is a growing hunger in the church. It's not because we're doing anything like, "Oh, we're doing this so much better, and we've addressed this issue." It's just that for whatever the reason, that God is stirring up people, you know, inside the church, and then new people who are coming into the church.

There is a stirring and hungering in the church that I haven't seen in a long time. And it's not that, you know, our church was bad for so long. It's not that. It's just something beyond us that God is doing, and I sense that, right? It's not because we're mature.

It's not because we have greater programs. Nothing about my preaching has changed. It's just that there is a growing hunger. And because of that, I feel the same thing I sensed when we were at that stage of the church. So we're trying to prepare for that. We're praying. There's a greater sense of weightiness.

You know, if the Lord's bringing people here who are hungry, I want to make sure that they're being fed, you know. So I'm not as overly concerned about the system, about the organization, because they're coming to eat. And I want to make sure that they're being fed. And if they're fed, they're going to have energy.

And if they have energy, then they're going to go out and serve the church. And so I feel like, generally speaking, that's how I feel where we are at in the church. I am not blind to our shortcomings. I'm not blind to pockets of things that are going on.

But generally speaking, there is a stirring and hungering, and I'm very encouraged by seeing that. And to be honest, it really has nothing to do with us, because God wants to be glorified. And if anything does happen, it's just like when our church grew. It's like, what did you do?

Same thing we did when we didn't grow. We're doing the same thing when nobody cared. People walked out because of my preaching. We're doing the exact same thing. So there's nothing that's changing. It's just that there's a growing hunger. And I think people want to meet the Lord, you know.

And I sense that that's growing. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. Okay, let me open it up if you have any questions that you'd like to ask. I know we're Asian, so I don't expect anything. Yeah. You know, when I first went to Biola, the first time I heard somebody just end the prayer, and he just prays, "Thank you, Lord." And he just walked off.

And I kept my eyes closed, and I said, "What was that?" He didn't say Jesus' name. So it took me a while to get used to it because, you know, there's things that we do, like in patterns. So if you happen to go to church all your life with a suit on, and then you go to a church where people are not wearing suits, it's just uncomfortable enough where you might actually not attend.

So I had to wrestle with, is that a biblical thing that I need to kind of wrestle with, or is that something that I just need to, you know? And so my understanding when it says praying in Jesus' name, it's not some formula that if we attach that somehow it's better.

Obviously, it's talking about in Jesus' name that my access to God is through his name, right? So I don't think it's an issue, as long as the person understands that our prayer is in the name of Christ, but the actual words of that, yeah. I try to say it just because it's a comfort thing for me, and I know that there's other people in the church that may kind of like have a reaction, "Oh, he didn't say it." But generally speaking, I don't want to make that like, "Okay, we need to say this," right?

Because I know what it means, and I know that that's what they mean, yeah. That's my view. Is that part of the Bible? >> Yeah. >> Again, you know, there's a difference between, you know, how we interpret Scripture that's prescriptive and descriptive. Descriptive is we see it in the Scripture, like they did it.

There's a difference between that versus prescriptive saying, "You must do this," right? So those things come, like saying in Jesus' name, that's not even in the Bible, other than that, it's just through church history, people have done that. Saying amen is when you look at the Psalms, you know, they would have like some kind of prayer, and they would say, "Selah," or they would say, "Amen," and it's said in agreement.

So it is not commanded in Scripture, it's just descriptive because we see it, right? And that's their way of like, "Yes, thank you." Or say, "We agree with that." So it is not mandated, it just, we just see a pattern. Yeah, so that's a good question. It's here, I don't know why it's not up here.

When BMC was planted, it wasn't like we had this plan, you know, in five years, let's plant a church, so let's raise up people so we can go plant a church. Nor was it like, you know, never in our mind that we're ever going to do this, right? Is there a need for churches?

Yes. But not just any church because, you know, I see in Irvine like every year there's three or four churches that want to come to Irvine because Irvine's a growing place and there's a campus here. And the Protestant church is so segmented that everybody has their own agenda. And you may be preaching the same thing that the other church is preaching and doing the exact same thing, but you want your brand.

You know what I mean? And so I remember when I was going out in the street doing like homeless ministry, like other churches would come and set up just down the street and we would tell them, "Hey, we have a ministry here," but they wanted their church to feed the homeless.

It wasn't enough to feed the homeless, it's like it had to be under their church name, right? And eventually the reason why we stopped going was because there was this large charismatic church that came. They had more money, better food. This lady was cooking tortilla soup every week. We had stale donuts.

And then I made a tuna sandwich and the whole thing cost like 20 bucks. So obviously it wasn't good, you know? And then they were coming with these bags of tortilla chips and they had mic systems and all that. And we told them, "Hey, we're doing this. Can you join us in this?" They just wanted their own brand.

So we joined them. So we ended up joining. Even though we were there for like seven years, we just kind of joined them, put our stuff on their table. But the reason why we stopped going was because they started to yell at the homeless people. Like, "If you don't -- shut up.

I'm not going to feed you." And so they started -- the homeless people would stay away from the preaching and then they would just come to eat and we didn't want to be a part of that. And that's why we stopped going. The reason why I share that story is because we have to be careful that our desire to plant churches isn't our branding that we're trying to spread, you know?

That we want to make sure that it's the gospel, that it's the kingdom of God that we're spreading, right? So when we decided to plant the churches because we had the resources. When I say resources, I'm not just talking about money. We had manpower. And like, "Oh, don't we have manpower now?" If we had five errant choys, we would have planted five churches already.

And the reason why I say that, I'm not saying that, you know, only errant choys of the world can plant churches. Pastor Aaron was very fruitful in our church. He -- his people loved his -- not only his preaching and teaching, but his leadership. He had sound judgment. The years that I've observed him, it wasn't -- even though he's a very clear teacher, to me his primary gift isn't teaching, it's leadership.

He had very sound judgment. He's able to make hard decisions even if it is unpopular. So everything that I saw is like, he is capable of leading a church. So I've seen so many situations where you have a vision and then you find people to plug in that vision, and then they go out and then they struggle, you know.

I said, "Oh, how come God's not blessing us?" So our typical way we do church planting is we have a vision and then we work hard and then we pray that God would join us, right? And I learned early on, and my philosophy is, see where God is working and join him.

It was clear that God was working in Pastor Aaron's life. And that -- so when he decided to plant a church, people packed up their bags and went. Because they trusted him. They trusted his leadership. So even now, like if we had another Aaron Choi, you know, and I'm not saying that our other pastors are not capable, you know, but I'm saying like everything that I saw from my personal experience that would be required a high-end priority is necessary to be able to lead in that capacity and to be successful, Pastor Aaron Choi had, right?

There's a lot of people who are capable of teaching, but they're not good at leading. There's people who are good at counseling, but they have a hard time like standing in front of people and gathering people. Or some people are good at counseling, but they're not good at preaching.

And so when you plant the church and if you're weak in some of those areas, like the people within the congregation, they start really struggling. And so they're not being fed. They're not being led. So if we were in China or in India where there's nothing, anything is better, right?

But that's not where we live. We have a church down the street. We have people competing to bring people to their church. So I would only plant the church if I thought that the person who's planning the church are going to be able to be effective in the context of all the other churches that are around, right?

So it's not -- so that we don't just add to like, here's 15 other churches, and here's another church because it's brilliant. And that's the only reason why. If you ask me personally, you know, like say, oh, how about you planting a church? And I fantasize about this. And it's probably not going to happen.

But if I was to ever plant a church, it would probably not be in the United States. I thought about Korea, China, other places, but not in the United States. I didn't really even plant this church, though. This church just happened. In fact, the interesting story was I had a group of friends, one attorney, one internist doctor.

They're all my age and already into professional careers, who was asking me to plant a church so that we can plant a church. But I didn't want to do it because I didn't feel like I was ready. You know, I was burnt out, and I was in no condition to lead a church and give them a vision and rally them up and train them.

And I was just trying to survive at that time. And then I came to this church to help out because the guy who started the church just took off. So I just came in to kind of plug in the role and then we got kicked out. And then we became a church plant with a bunch of high school students and one college student, you know, and one guy paying tithe.

And so it wasn't like a church plant. We were just surviving. And people said, "Oh, you know, good thing you obeyed God." I was like, "I don't think I obeyed God." I'm just being honest. It wasn't like I prayed. It was like, "Lord, what do you want me to do?" I saw a bunch of kids that I felt like wasn't going to make it if I left and out of obligation.

You know, because if I was going to plant the church, I would have planted with those guys. They're all working people. They're all my age. I'm not going to plant a church with a bunch of college students. I just had two kids and I just had another kid in about three years after we planted the church.

That's insane. Who would do that with no income? Yeah, I wouldn't have planted this church. So everything about this church was just God had his plan and I'm absolutely convinced when the scripture says that God seeks his own glory. So when somebody asks what happened at this church, I can only tell them what happened, how we got planted.

It was God gets the glory for this. It wasn't a smart pastor. It wasn't because of our planning. It wasn't because of our denomination. It was because we didn't get funded. You know, in the first five, six years, nothing happened and we did everything. We're not doing anything different, you know, and yet in God's timing.

So when God says what happened at Berean, nobody takes the credit like God did. He said to preach the word faithfully in season and out of season. If there's one thing that we did from the beginning until now, it's that. So even now if you say like five, I can tell you five years like, oh, I would like to see this, but in the end, nothing I planned worked, you know.

So it's not that I don't have thoughts, but in the end, I'm going to let God bear the fruit and we're going to obey and we're going to submit. So some people ask me like, what's your target group? I don't have a target group. I've never had a target group.

It's like, do you want multicultural, you know, what group and I told people from the very beginning, if Hispanics come to church, those are the people I'm going to minister to. If we have a bunch of high school kids come, those are the people I'm going to minister to.

If everybody that comes are senior citizens, that's the people I'm going to minister to. If they all happen to be Chinese or Korean or different nationality, wherever God is working and bringing, those are the people that are going to target. I don't have a target group to go after.

And that's how we've always been. So we don't have like a, I don't have a picture in my head of what I want the church to look like, other than, you know, one thing that I share, like early church, when we started the church, the seeker-friendly movement was in full-blown, you know, like every seeker-friendly church, you turn around, they were doubling in size, right?

And so this tiny little church, this pastor who's burnt out, you know, and everywhere I went, they were telling me to get retrained, you know, because I didn't know what I was doing, because we're suffering, I'm not able to take care of my kids, you know, why are you being stubborn?

And it was so frustrating, not because I was tempted to do that, and I remember, I mean, Joe knows, I used to say, like, I'd rather dig ditches than to do church like that, because it bothers my conscience. I know that's not from God, right? Playing games to get people to come to church, that's not from God.

At least if you dig a ditch, at the end of the day, it's deeper than when you first started, you did something, right? You can bury something that is useful. To build a church that has nothing to do with God, just because you gather people, what does that do?

You know what I mean? You're committed to be fake, you know? And so, but in the early church, those are the church that was growing. People would come and say, "Hey, are you, do you believe in predestination?" And I'd say, "Yes," and they would just walk up. They didn't want Bible teaching.

The fact that we had membership was enough to turn people away, you know, and the church wasn't growing. Our finance, I mean, in God's eyes, it was a blessing, but humanly, it was a joke. Basically, our whole budget for the five, six years of the church was, we paid rent, whatever was left came to me.

That was our budget. We had no line item, like education, admissions, you know? And the first time we had a meeting, we were trying to buy a projector, and there was about 25 people in the room, and we're trying to buy a projector, and there was an objection in the church because they're saying, like, "We can't pay the pastor.

Why are we buying a projector?" So, we couldn't pass. We couldn't pass it, so because they were against it, you know? And then, so one of our elders actually just bought it, and they just donated it to the church, and that's how we got our first projector. That was our budget.

It was like, those are two line items, rent, and then rest, go to the pastor, and that was it. But seriously, in the midst of all of that, like, God, you know, built the, in my opinion, God built the church where he gets the credit. Just like the apostles, like, oh, which apostle?

Why were they so useful? So, God chose a sinner to glorify the gospel, not Paul, not Peter, and so, like, what was so fantastic here? Right? At one point, I preached the exact same way. You know, I started this church preaching through Romans every Friday. You know what the first thing that I heard when I was preaching, studying through Romans with Pastor Aaron and Luke and David Rim?

My first response from them was how much they hated coming to Friday Bible study because it was so boring because they just came from the youth group, and they were always having activity, like, tennis day and all that, and all of a sudden, they come to the church, and we're just going through the book of Romans.

And, you know, and I'm dying. Like, I'm just making it, just trying to pay bills, and then the response I get is like, this is so boring. It's like, we're not having a retreat. But it took a while. You know, it took a while to catch on. It took, and I shared this story before, but the first person that I felt like I was able to get their attention was Joe.

He was in college when we started. He graduated college. He was preparing to go into CHP, and then he spent a lot of time in the car listening to sermons. I think it was Calvary Chapel sermons that he was listening to. He was listening to maybe about five, six, seven sermons a day because he was doing delivery to architecture firms.

And this is three years into the church, you know, and I was preaching exactly the same way. You know, maybe I can do a better job expositing today, but at least in my mind, I thought I was doing exposition, and just the response I got was not good. You know, they would come, and they would hear the secret friendly sermons and say, how come we're not doing this?

You know, we need to be more cutting edge, and we need to do this to reach out, and I said, I'm not going to do that. You know, my conscience will not allow me to do that. I quit before I do that, right? So some people were frustrated with me.

They laughed. Some people, you know, a lot of them early on, they stuck with the church because we were such a young church, and we had, you know, you know, we had a really good community where we genuinely loved each other. And I cared for them, and I kind of functioned like a father figure for them.

You know, some of them, I taught them how to drive when they were younger, and so that was the reason why they were there. It wasn't because of the vision. It took three years, and then Joe was the first one who came to me, like literally in tears, he said, I get it, Peter.

I said, what do you get? He's like, I see what you're doing. And I'm like, what am I doing? Because I wanted to hear, you know, I see why you're preaching like that. I see why you're doing ministry like that. So he's the one who had the initial influence upon David and Pastor Aaron and that group, because he was their small group leader.

So once he started to really like come alive, he started influencing them. And then when they started getting influenced, it just kind of had a trickle effect, just slowly. And then the church really didn't start to grow until they graduated college and they had more time, because they were all -- even though we were feeding them in the weekend, during the weekday, they were at CCM, and everybody was just doing their own thing.

And then when they graduated and finally came and committed like fully to the church, was when the church started to bear fruit. But that took three years. Those three years were dry, so dry. I had somebody come up to me after the sermon, and he's like -- and with all sincerity, he came to me and he said, "Nothing ever happens at this church." And then he just walked away.

If I mention him, you'll know who he is, but I won't mention his name. They just didn't get it in the beginning. Yeah, but it took a while. >> You mentioned a lot of like, well, or about how you're preaching change. You know, I felt when you're a high school pastor or a college pastor, I guess maybe in the last 10 years, how have you seen your preaching change?

>> You know, I didn't go to a master's seminary where they had a like, "Hey, this is how you preach the Bible." So I -- to be honest, I just kind of learned on my own. And the way it started was -- it started when I was a youth pastor, because I started preaching topically because that's all I knew.

And then I started preaching through the Bible, at least what I thought was through the Bible, because I just ran out of material. To be honest, I ran out of material. How many times do you talk about lordship and giving and stewardship and discipleship? And after about 20 sermons, you have to recycle that in a different manner.

So I started preaching through John, and then I went to Philippians. And then so I started preaching, and then I noticed like I enjoyed it much more, because I was actually starting to learn. I was learning as I was -- so I would say majority of those sermons I probably would throw away, because I didn't know what I was doing.

So some sermons sounded like a commentary, because I just took the commentaries, and this is what it says, and then after a few months of that, I was like, "Oh, this is not working." Like nobody's paying attention. And then so I kind of was adjusting. So when we first started this church, it's like I was committed to expository preaching, but what that looked like in an actual sermon, I just kind of figured out, right?

So I probably sound a little bit different, you know, from the beginning. So committed to expository preaching, but how much of the Bible is quoted, how much of the like the nuances, syntax was quoted in the sermons, that probably changed as it went along. Last 10 years, when you ask the last 10 years, the way it changed was something that I realized that maybe I wasn't doing well was connecting the text to the metanarrative.

When I say metanarrative, it's God's redemptive history. So seeing the text, not just in the context of that verse or that letter, but in what God's doing in history, because if you look at it as one letter from Genesis to Revelation, even if you're studying Ephesians, that Ephesians is a part of the larger letter.

So where does that fit into redemptive history? So I would say that's one thing that really kind of like if there was any radical change, like I realized not that I wasn't thinking that, but maybe I wasn't communicating that enough, right? So I wasn't communicating enough, like how does this connect to the redemptive history?

What does that have to do with Christ? And so I made a deliberate decision to make an effort to connect to that, right? So if there's any change, so if anybody's been here in the preaching in the last 15 years and if you've probably seen any kind of change, that's probably the change.

So it's not how I'm interpreting the passage, but how I'm applying that passage in the context of the larger message that's going on. So in that sense, I probably, you know, that would be a major, it's not a shift, it's just a greater effort to connect to that. Yeah.

I think that's what you're asking, right? Yeah. I, I, I'm just totally having a rush on. No, no. So that was a conscious decision that I made, but there's nothing else specifically that I changed other than that. Yeah, I was wrestling with this, you know, which is interesting because I didn't think about what I did early on in the church, but I decided to, I'm probably going to go into the book of Hebrews, mainly because Hebrews is what connects Leviticus to the New Testament.

And so because we're going to finish up Leviticus, by the time we finish up Leviticus, I'm going to be done with Romans. And so Hebrews is going to help connect it all together. And after I made the decision, I was looking back at my sermon notes and see, that's exactly what I did in the early part of the church.

I studied through the Romans and then I jumped through Hebrews. And I mentioned that today, that Pastor Aaron's first sermon was based upon, you know, one of the teachings on Melchizedek. And then, um, it's because that's what I was on. When we finished Romans, I jumped into Hebrews. So my brain is wired the same way as back then.

Yeah. So most likely I'm going to jump into Hebrews, even though we studied through it before, but it was studied like 18 years ago, 17 years ago. It's only about, huh? Seven, eight years ago. Did I preach it on Sunday? Was it Bible study? Oh, the Bible study. Okay.

But I did do that in the early church too. So that was, this would be my third time through it. It'd be a very short book. You know, sometimes I, not for the purpose of general consumption. So my dad wrote like several books, autobiography, you know, and he wrote it for his students when he was a teacher.

And he, you know, he was like a New Testament scholar. He churches, he taught church history, Greek and Hebrew, which I didn't benefit at all because he was in Korean. So I looked at his books and I didn't understand any of it. So one day I want to translate his autobiography and he read it very, like he wrote it, wrote it kind of like devotionally.

And he went through his life since childhood and then he would have like a devotional point. He would go through a passage and how that played out. And so I want to translate that for the grandkids, for them to have. So I kind of thought about just for the purpose of my kids to write kind of like this is what their heritage is.

And I would be the second generation of that like part two of that book would be, would be that. So I thought about that for that purpose. But generally, I don't know, I may change my mind, but generally speaking, like, um, when I die, I'd like to disappear. You know what I mean?

Like, is there anything new that I can say that hasn't been said by somebody? Probably better. You know what I mean? And do I want people scrutinize my life after I die? I don't have that confidence. Yeah. So like I was born and to be responsible for what God has given me here, you know?

And so if I die, I mean, there's so many people that have gone before me that are living now and probably will go after me or smarter, better, God, dear, you know? Um, so like, I, you know, you know what I mean? You kind of throw it like, I feel like you're in an NBA game.

It's like, Hey, let me take a shot. Yeah. So I feel like a small fish in that, in that big pond. And so I don't have that. Like, Oh, he'd be great if I left. Maybe for my kids, maybe for the purpose of church history, you know, for, for our church people who are committed to bring in.

But to be honest, like is bringing going to be here, you know, 50 years from now, a hundred years from now, you know, like great churches who didn't, who didn't go beyond one generation. So I'm not going to assume that that's going to happen. I hope for my kids sake and for your kids sake of our grandkids sake that they can take the baton and go, but look at church history and look at Bible history.

Some of the greatest men had the worst kids, right? The King Hezekiah, you know, one of the best Kings in Israel had the, one of the worst Kings right after God extended his life for 15 years. And Manasseh comes out of that. So I only know today, so we'll see what happens tomorrow.

Why did I say, you know, what did you see? So this is interesting. One thing that I did notice in the, how many years I've been with Pastor Peter is he does, he does yell a little less now. In the beginning he was high, more often. I was angry.

Why I say, cause this was all I knew. Cause I, I came from Irvine Baptist, which, which this church came out from. So, you know, I was young. I, it was, it was something that I didn't know what to do to be honest. And it was, you know, he says he didn't know what he was doing, but God was still working.

So I was, you know, it started with high school, but so he brought in one of my old pastors from Biola, Pastor Mark, and he was very consistent with preaching the word and emphasizing that. So it started for me in high school. But it was just a smooth transition into an emphasis on the Bible.

So, you know, what, what, furthermore, I didn't know any other churches to go to. So that's most of the reason why. Yeah, that was, there was that, that's, that's is there anything like you're noticing the culture of trend that you feel like it'd be dangerous that might be coming into the church?

Yeah. I mean that, that, that's a constant concern because it, but it's not anything new, you know, I think the greatest challenge to the church is always complacency. Like there's doctrines, there's like, you know, movements coming, but what erodes the church the most is not, is not the fighting.

It's not like that, that like we're coming in, it's King James only. And you know, like it's not that cause that actually caused you to be sober because like, Hey, we need to answer these questions. Cause the study of the Bible and then address that issue. And it kind of gathers a church.

People ask, you know, even about the last church discipline that we had at the church, you know, say, Oh, that must've been hard. It actually was very sanctifying in the church because it kind of solidified our leadership and we spent two days and it really felt like, man, we're in the trenches together that I'm not doing this by myself, that these, these other elders and leaders are, are in the trenches with me.

So it was encouraging. It was the years of dealing with that by myself that that was hard. But this time around, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't just me, you know? So yes, there are stuff that are coming that I'm aware of. But the thing that's always on my mind is the constant drifting that, that we experience on a day to day basis.

Um, cause just cause where we live, you know, that's, to me, that's the, that's the biggest problem. Like when you are, you're slipping away and you don't even realize it until you're there and then you try to get back and it is so hard when your heart is like, you know what I mean?

A revival heart that you've neglected for that long. It's not something that happens because you went to a retreat and you heard one summer sermon and in years of just sticking to what's right. Right? Yeah. So if there's anything I'm concerned about more than anything else, it's that, that we don't erode and keep working on the same things that we've been working on all these years.

So that's how we're going back to the basics because nothing has changed. We want to like the word of God, proper worship, loving one another and evangelizing is what we're going to keep doing. We'll make sure that we don't stray from that. Just a quick question. Like, um, I would think a few years ago we would, uh, we were just involved in China and then like there were the summers where like the majority of the churches go out.

And nowadays, like now, it's like we're involved in several different countries. How would you advise us to like as like individually and also as entire congregation to continue to, uh, like participate and be involved in the mission? I mean, clearly there is a growing desire, um, in India for sure.

Because even now, like we didn't, we had to close it before we even opened it because there's, you know, and people know that we're not going into a safe area. This is not like a, you know, walk through the park and, and I'm like deliberately scaring people, you know, it's like you have to take your things in order and make sure your bank account, everything's, you know, um, but I'm encouraged to see people like want to be challenged and to participate in God's work.

And there's a lot of people who desire that, you know, when we were going to China, you know, like there was a stirring excitement. You guys were young, it was easily mobilized and we were, we had momentum for like five, six, seven years in a row where we built relationships.

So I don't think our church had a heart for China itself. We had a heart for the people that we met in China because they became friends, you know, and so as a result of that, that we wanted to go and meet them and follow up with them. Right now there's a little bit of a disconnect because we don't have that right now.

You know, it's like the idea of China, idea of Japan. And then India, there's a more of a connection because we know the pastors. Um, at some point I think that's going to get reconnected once our missionaries settled down and they do work and we're going to end up like supporting them.

Um, but we're in a different stage where we were going out helping other missionaries who are, who are established. And then we were doing support work and then when we switched that from supporting our missionaries, but they were going through transition because they're not established. So during that transition period, we, it was harder for us to connect with the students because they were transitioning.

So I think at some point once they get settled in, it'd be easier to know what we're doing, you know, but, but now it's going to, we have to wait for them to get settled in and then to get into, jump into that, whether that's in Japan or, or in China.

Uh, I would encourage you to, you know, if you have opportunities, especially when you're younger and you're not, you know, you're not bound physically because of, of children and that kind of stuff to take advantage of that. You know, one thing I really enjoy, like what Pastor Peter was able to do, like once he had two kids, the part of the reason why he couldn't do that is because of where he is in stage in life.

You know, he, he's seen all of these things, but he can't do that anymore because he has to leave his kids half the time, you know? So if you're young and you're free, you know, take advantage of that. And instead of just using that to go travel and see beautiful things, you know, again, there's nothing wrong with that, but take that opportunity to see, you know, even if it's just to see like what's going on and you're hard for Japan, you're hard for China, you're hard for India.

It's not going to come from here is when you actually rub shoulders, eat food with them, sit down and, and fellowship with them and they become friends. Man, India was such a foreign weird place and it still is, but India is not as strange. Not because the country has become less weird is because we become friends with those pastors.

So when I think of India now, I don't think of idolatry and, you know, and those temples. Now I think of those pastors. So now it doesn't seem as strange because of them. So if you want a heart for missions, you have to open the doors to rub shoulders with those people.

Okay. Let me end with this. And then, so some of you guys who need to go can go, and then we can, if you want to stick around and ask them questions, I'll stick around and I'll just, I'll just say this, like all this stuff going on at church and ministry missions and all this stuff and all of these things are important.

I, I really like, and I was just praying that even this morning, you know, and I was like really praying that I want our church to know that Jesus that saved me and all these years he's been faithful to me. That's it. That's it. I'm not trying to raise up people.

I don't have this grand vision of like I want to have all these churches and evangelize the world. And all of these things are commanded in scripture. But you know, like what makes my heartbeat, what makes me want to keep doing what I'm doing is I want you to see who Jesus is.

Not that I have such a perfect vision of him, but the Christ that I've come to know, I can't help but to love him. Know what I mean? Even more than my wife, even more than my kids. It's hard to explain, but he means everything to me. And I feel like if people can come to see that, if I can just, if I can just kind of like take what he's shown me and I wish I was, I was more articulate.

Sometimes I wish I could write songs because I feel like they can express themselves so much better. Sometimes I feel like I could, I wish I could paint because the painters can like take what's in their mind and the heart, just put it onto canvas and people can see that.

And my way of doing is through preaching, you know, but I, I, I wish my desire for our churches to see that Christ. And if you, if you love him, like he is, he's lovable. I think evangelism will happen. Discipleship will happen. Like mission will happen. Church will happen.

Fellowship will happen, you know, because when you love something, you naturally want to share it. Yeah. So all this other stuff, I'm trying to figure it out myself. You know, I was talking to Pastor Aaron and he's like, you know, I thought I knew what I was doing. Now the church is at 230.

I have no idea what I'm doing, you know, and I said, good, then we can fellowship because I don't know either, you know, so that's my conclusion. Let me pray for us. And then if you have any other questions, well, I'll stick around. Heavenly Father, we thank you so much.

And I thank you for my brothers and sisters here in this room and the work that you are already doing in their hearts. I thank you Lord God that you've sovereignly brought them to our church, that we can share our lives together, that even in our weakness we can cover over each other.

Lord, we have no idea what you have planned in the future, but you've been so faithful to us all these years. Lord God, you know my sins, you know, my weakness, you know, Father God, just how helpless our church would be if it was dependent upon any man. I, we thank you, Father God, that you seek your own glory.

And as a result of that, we were able to live and enjoy Father God, all the promises that you've given us. I thank you for my brothers and sisters here. I pray Father God, for all of us, including myself, that you would open our eyes, that we may see a clear and clear vision of the loveliness of Christ, that all that we do may simply be a reasonable response of the grace that you give us.

Thank you, Father. In Jesus name we pray. Amen. Amen. Right.