back to indexBCC 2018 Retreat - Q & A Session 2
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And so I'm not sure if I need to answer all that 00:00:21.440 |
Maybe this -- and then there's some questions that came 00:00:23.620 |
out of you guys, and I'll definitely try to cover that. 00:00:26.420 |
Okay? And then if you have any questions beyond that, 00:00:29.640 |
because this is a smaller group, and if you want to deal 00:00:35.640 |
It might be relevant to you, so if you want me to address it, 00:00:43.640 |
you know, I told the first group that I'll give 00:00:49.860 |
So I'm going to try to do that here, but no guarantee. 00:00:59.760 |
Heavenly Father, we thank you for this opportunity, 00:01:02.900 |
and we pray that you will bless this time so that the things 00:01:20.640 |
The majority of this stuff is not for this group, 00:01:43.800 |
meaning that we don't have a governing board outside 00:02:04.940 |
So we support the local chapter of the Southern Baptist, 00:02:11.060 |
so we give an offering about $200 a month, and they use 00:02:15.980 |
So we've been Southern Baptist from the very beginning. 00:02:21.520 |
I was raised a Presbyterian, but then I became a Baptist 00:02:24.820 |
because of my convictions and what I saw in scripture. 00:02:27.760 |
So I got infant baptized and then rebaptized later 00:02:36.600 |
because of the history, not because I want to partner 00:02:40.020 |
with other churches, because in the local area, 00:02:45.440 |
They're Southern Baptist, and they have so much influence 00:02:47.680 |
in the churches in our area, and I didn't feel like we fit 00:02:51.040 |
in with that -- with the way that they did church. 00:02:53.040 |
But because of Dr. Michael Proud, and who is the head 00:02:56.660 |
of the Southern Baptist in our area, that we felt 00:02:58.520 |
like he was really like-minded, and as a result of that, 00:03:02.480 |
and that's how we got involved with the Southern Baptist. 00:03:04.200 |
And so because it's voluntary, we just kind of get involved 00:03:07.320 |
with what we can, but our primary focus is just 00:03:15.100 |
you know, those people who are heavily involved, 00:03:23.760 |
We just -- I'm just not involved with that, right? 00:03:26.680 |
But I do get involved with, if there is a like-minded church 00:03:30.160 |
coming in, to try to support them, and then financially. 00:03:34.280 |
So if there's disasters, instead of just giving randomly, 00:03:37.180 |
we give it to the Southern Baptist relief work. 00:03:39.120 |
So they'll usually contact the Southern Baptist Church, 00:03:47.620 |
So we send finances to the Southern Baptist Board, 00:03:50.520 |
and then they would send it to the local church in that area, 00:03:52.860 |
and then they would use those funds to help the people, 00:04:03.840 |
under the Southern Baptist IMB, International Mission Board, 00:04:07.440 |
so we used to give offering here and there, but once he gets in, 00:04:11.040 |
he gets funded, our -- some part of our mission budget is going 00:04:27.420 |
So replacement theology basically is a covenant theology 00:04:45.560 |
And there's a big difference between the two. 00:04:47.300 |
And there's a larger theology that requires more time 00:04:53.960 |
But the reason why I believe that is because if you look 00:05:03.140 |
at the Old Testament prophecies about what God is going to do 00:05:05.700 |
with Israel, it's pretty clear that God is going to -- 00:05:09.600 |
like, they've experienced a hardening of their heart 00:05:18.080 |
which we believe is the period of the millennium, 00:05:22.080 |
And so the language is pretty clear about that. 00:05:24.100 |
So if you don't believe that, you have to interpret all 00:05:28.260 |
That when every time he mentions Israel being restored, 00:05:32.220 |
Israel's king being restored, and they're going to go back 00:05:34.480 |
to their land, all of that is interpreted allegorically 00:05:40.520 |
because there are some passages in Galatians and other parts 00:05:50.380 |
about how they experienced a hardening of the heart 00:05:52.440 |
of the fullness of the Gentiles have come in, 00:05:57.960 |
as the church has completely replaced it, right? 00:06:00.720 |
And this is something that's going to require more time, 00:06:04.020 |
but I'll give you in a nutshell the couple things 00:06:10.300 |
One, if you look at all the prophecies of the coming 00:06:13.260 |
of Christ, all of it was fulfilled literally. 00:06:35.180 |
But if you look at the way the prophecy was interpreted 00:06:38.420 |
and it was fulfilled, it was fulfilled literally, 00:06:48.280 |
considering how it was fulfilled in the New Testament. 00:06:51.620 |
And then if you go to the -- if you go to the End Times, 00:06:56.460 |
the Book of Revelation, I think it's Revelation Chapter 5, 00:06:59.140 |
we see a scene of worship, and it says 144,000 Jews, 00:07:07.020 |
and the Gentiles are the same church, why do -- 00:07:09.620 |
are they separated in identifying them as Jews 00:07:15.000 |
And so all through that, when we put that all together, yes, 00:07:20.000 |
the church has been grafted into God's kingdom 00:07:25.900 |
God's people is everybody who confesses Christ as Lord 00:07:28.240 |
and Savior, but within that, God has a special place 00:07:33.220 |
And I believe that that is still going to be fulfilled at the end, 00:07:43.360 |
In our church, we practice male leadership in our church 00:07:55.800 |
but we do not have female elders in our church, okay? 00:07:59.220 |
And I don't know if I need to go into details of that, 00:08:03.380 |
but basically, this is one of those things that I wrestled 00:08:06.560 |
with when I was in seminary because one of the first pastors 00:08:13.580 |
And so I used to drive down to the valley just to listen 00:08:16.060 |
to her, and then so when I came upon this theology, 00:08:19.880 |
And then so I went, and I actually volunteered 00:08:23.700 |
So in the class that I was at, they gave us an option 00:08:29.360 |
and I chose this subject because I was wrestling with this. 00:08:43.220 |
And so we're complementarian, meaning that God had created men 00:08:47.700 |
and women equal, equal in value, but complement in activity, 00:08:56.480 |
They have different roles, but they are equal in value, right? 00:09:02.980 |
So again, this -- this something requires a lot more attention. 00:09:05.560 |
So if you wrestle with this and want more explanation, 00:09:08.420 |
like I encourage you to come and talk to me personally. 00:09:24.000 |
Open but cautious view basically is that we're open -- 00:09:28.760 |
the charismatic gifts -- I don't see anything in the scripture 00:09:50.880 |
But it needs to meet the biblical standard, right? 00:09:54.280 |
Meaning that if somebody says they're going to prophesy, 00:10:02.900 |
because in the Old Testament they got stoned for that, right? 00:10:05.500 |
And then if you're going to talk about spiritual gifts 00:10:14.440 |
It's not something that they couldn't identify. 00:10:16.400 |
It's not something like, oh, you have to have faith 00:10:21.980 |
where even the non-Christians who didn't want 00:10:29.020 |
So the reason why I won't say I'm a cessationist is 00:10:32.460 |
because I don't see anything in the scripture 00:10:38.740 |
in the charismatic community today sometimes is 00:10:40.720 |
very distracting because like you have to want to believe it. 00:10:44.460 |
Right? So that's what an open but cautious view is. 00:10:48.460 |
Again, you didn't ask this question so I'm not going 00:11:01.780 |
I'm just going to give you a short version of this. 00:11:06.380 |
Why is corporate worship -- I mean, the fact that worship is 00:11:20.700 |
But the specific question is the corporate worship, right? 00:11:23.760 |
If you study through the Old Testament, God doesn't see -- 00:11:27.960 |
God doesn't speak to about an individual completely 00:11:31.540 |
He'll say, you know, like he's the son of somebody, right? 00:11:39.580 |
And so if you remember, in every Jew that identifies himself, 00:11:49.760 |
identifies himself with his name, his family, 00:11:55.820 |
That's usually the pattern that they have, right? 00:11:58.300 |
We live in an individualistic society where it's just kind 00:12:06.400 |
In fact, every letter that he wrote to, almost every letter, 00:12:20.260 |
for the Sabbath was the corporate body get together 00:12:24.120 |
So it wasn't meant to be, "Oh, we're going to give Sabbath 00:12:28.060 |
The purpose of Sabbath was that they can rest from work 00:12:31.540 |
so that they can gather for the purpose of worship, 00:12:35.360 |
You know, scripture says, "Do not be in the habit 00:12:37.200 |
of forsaking your own assembly, but gather together all the more 00:12:42.900 |
So there's repeated pattern over and over again for the purpose 00:12:47.680 |
Again, I could take a long time talking about this, 00:12:50.820 |
but this is something that if you have more question 00:13:08.400 |
It doesn't mean that private worship is not important, 00:13:11.740 |
but above private worship, corporate worship needs 00:13:15.640 |
That's why we ask like unless it's some kind of an emergency 00:13:55.120 |
Yes, because the scripture says to submit to your elders, right? 00:14:00.960 |
Is there -- did God appoint leaders and eventually deacons, 00:14:23.620 |
Is there biblically given authority to somebody 00:14:27.060 |
who's leading you in small group and discipling you? 00:14:33.120 |
There is nothing in scripture that creates a relationship 00:14:42.840 |
because out of respect, but this is not a biblical mandate 00:14:46.500 |
in scripture that if somebody is placed over you 00:14:49.160 |
in your small group, that when they tell you you can't live 00:14:58.240 |
So the only authority biblically established is the authority 00:15:07.960 |
And it says to not to lay hands hastily because to give 00:15:11.880 |
that kind of authority to somebody who's immature 00:15:14.040 |
and wielded very poorly and ends up, you know, 00:15:17.540 |
destroying the conscience of many people, right? 00:15:22.200 |
from because I came from a ministry where this was taught. 00:15:26.920 |
and leaders were whoever was discipling you as your leader 00:15:31.740 |
And that's part of the reason why I left that ministry 00:15:35.040 |
Even within the structure of leadership in the church, 00:15:43.000 |
Meaning that our authority that was given, it was given to us 00:15:52.740 |
And he said he's called to sacrifice for his wife. 00:15:55.460 |
So his role of leadership is to reflect what Jesus did. 00:15:59.140 |
He humbled himself, got on his knees and washed their feet. 00:16:04.740 |
So your apostolic authority is just like mine. 00:16:07.840 |
Get on your knees and wash their feet," right? 00:16:11.280 |
So the authority in the church is given for the purpose 00:16:15.080 |
So there are certain things that we may say, "Hey, 00:16:17.160 |
at the church we're just not going to allow this. 00:16:18.980 |
And it's not because of my preference," that we believe, 00:16:21.700 |
even if you disagree, we believe that this needs to be done 00:16:30.560 |
So if a leader is afraid of criticism because he's afraid 00:16:34.380 |
of his own reputation and rather live in peace with everybody, 00:16:38.000 |
So part of what it means to be a leader is he has 00:16:41.980 |
to make difficult decisions for the benefit of the church, 00:16:44.860 |
for the purpose of benefiting the church, right? 00:16:50.400 |
So biblically, that's where the Bible leaves it, right? 00:17:00.580 |
Now having said that, there's cultural, you know, 00:17:07.160 |
especially in the Korean community, the older 00:17:09.440 |
versus younger, more experienced versus less, 00:17:18.540 |
how much you respect and honor, that's something that happens 00:17:24.060 |
Just from experience, whether it's running the church 00:17:28.360 |
or leading my wife or even raising my own kids, 00:17:31.580 |
like anytime I say, "Hey, the Bible says you need to submit," 00:17:40.160 |
If I have to use scripture to kind of like wave it and say, 00:17:44.680 |
"You know, if you want to obey God, you better obey me." 00:17:46.880 |
So, and if they're a committed Christian and they're committed 00:17:55.020 |
They may obey, but they're going to come kicking and screaming. 00:18:00.740 |
They're not, you know, they're not going to be helpful. 00:18:04.380 |
Majority of the people won't even do it, right? 00:18:06.680 |
So if ever I have to come to my wife and say, "Esther, 00:18:10.220 |
I'm your husband, submit," I've already lost her. 00:18:16.860 |
A good leader will inspire someone to support you, right? 00:18:24.600 |
even though the Bible does give me authority as a pastor, 00:18:27.360 |
as a father, and as a husband, if I don't wield 00:18:30.820 |
that in a humble manner, it actually will backfire on me. 00:18:33.920 |
It doesn't benefit the church, and it doesn't benefit me, 00:18:52.060 |
And sometimes they won't recognize it, right? 00:18:56.760 |
You have to make decisions that they don't like. 00:18:59.160 |
And at that moment, they'll be kicking and screaming, 00:19:04.820 |
And a lot of times that happens in the church, too. 00:19:06.800 |
We have to make decisions because we think this is best 00:19:08.700 |
for the church, and you get a reaction from the church, 00:19:11.580 |
and say, "But that's part of being a leader," right? 00:19:22.180 |
In fact, I think it's dangerous because you have 00:19:27.100 |
And the reason why we don't put leadership hastily is 00:19:34.460 |
You tell an immature person, and you give them authority, 00:19:44.520 |
And then they're going to say, "The Bible says," right? 00:19:49.960 |
It's not good for the people underneath them. 00:19:51.280 |
Okay, let me answer this, and then I'll just open it 00:20:00.580 |
This is such a large question because it depends 00:20:06.180 |
You can -- our church is big enough where you can look 00:20:09.620 |
at one group and say, "Wow, you know, so encouraged. 00:20:12.000 |
They're doing so many things, and they love Christ." 00:20:13.920 |
And then you go over here and talk to these people, 00:20:18.240 |
Like, and you can get -- I can get, like, such a large spectrum 00:20:23.220 |
of response in the church where so encouraged to, 00:20:31.380 |
So it really depends on which pocket, who I'm talking to, 00:20:34.760 |
and what age bracket, and at what time of the day. 00:20:37.160 |
And then there's people who are strong when they were single, 00:20:42.120 |
And there's people who, you know, were struggling, 00:20:48.500 |
with one statement how the whole church is doing. 00:20:51.340 |
But generally, you know, I would say, you know, 00:20:55.580 |
I'm very encouraged to see, especially with the new movement 00:21:05.800 |
I don't know if anybody was here during that time. 00:21:09.780 |
There's a -- there's a very handful, like maybe six or seven 00:21:17.100 |
But it was right around the time when we were -- 00:21:23.860 |
and I really didn't know if I was going to continue. 00:21:29.740 |
I think it was in December, and we said, "You know what? 00:21:35.100 |
We're going to try to just live off of whatever we get from that, 00:21:40.660 |
if we're at the same place," which we were completely 00:21:50.280 |
I have no job, no money in the bank, three kids I got to feed. 00:21:53.700 |
Then I could just, like, say, "Okay, what else can I do? 00:21:56.720 |
I got to go get a job, and I got to take care of my family." 00:22:01.640 |
We came out, and about one-third of the church left. 00:22:05.000 |
Instead of growing, we actually had people say, "Okay, 00:22:09.700 |
But the thing is, every time one person left, 00:22:18.580 |
but half the church was completely different. 00:22:20.380 |
And so anybody who was kind of, like, on the fridge, 00:22:23.180 |
and they weren't taking their faith seriously, 00:22:26.460 |
And then the new people came in were brand-new converts. 00:22:29.880 |
They weren't, like, necessarily strong Christians, 00:22:33.260 |
or even non-Christians came in, but they were hungry. 00:22:35.320 |
And then the people who remained, which are the people 00:22:38.480 |
who are here now, they eventually, obviously, 00:22:42.480 |
And so the church environment changed radically, right? 00:22:55.000 |
It was, like, six, seven years into the church, 00:23:05.900 |
It was a -- if you look at the room that we were in, 00:23:13.640 |
He preached up there, and then we sat back here, 00:23:18.320 |
And then we walked across the street to a hometown buffet 00:23:34.260 |
and just the spiritual environment of the church, 00:23:36.900 |
and not because we were mature, but type of excitement 00:23:40.020 |
in the church completely -- there was an overhaul 00:23:42.440 |
in the church, and I remember telling the church that, like, 00:23:46.600 |
not that we were going to grow, but this is a church 00:23:51.480 |
Prior to that, I couldn't say that with confidence. 00:23:57.180 |
I felt like I was asking them to do me a favor 00:23:59.940 |
to come to my church, and I just couldn't do that. 00:24:02.500 |
Right? If it's not a church that I would send my daughter to, 00:24:06.380 |
And so we didn't do anything to grow the church, 00:24:09.860 |
because I just felt like spiritually, we just weren't there. 00:24:12.240 |
And then right in that six-month period, we felt like, 00:24:16.620 |
this is a church that I think I would bring people to, you know? 00:24:20.500 |
Not for me, but because I think it would benefit them 00:24:23.160 |
because of the fellowship of the church and everything. 00:24:27.920 |
Joke contest, but we did absolutely nothing different. 00:24:37.280 |
And again, you have to understand, like, for five, 00:24:42.520 |
So why do we think that all of a sudden this is going to change? 00:24:46.500 |
It was a completely different environment in the church. 00:24:50.440 |
I shared with our leadership that that's the sense 00:24:56.940 |
that there is a growing hunger in the church. 00:25:06.040 |
that God is stirring up people, you know, inside the church, 00:25:10.460 |
and then new people who are coming into the church. 00:25:12.460 |
There is a stirring and hungering in the church 00:25:17.100 |
And it's not that, you know, our church was bad for so long. 00:25:21.960 |
It's just something beyond us that God is doing, 00:25:35.340 |
And because of that, I feel the same thing I sensed when we were 00:25:48.320 |
You know, if the Lord's bringing people here who are hungry, 00:25:51.120 |
I want to make sure that they're being fed, you know. 00:25:54.480 |
So I'm not as overly concerned about the system, 00:25:57.000 |
about the organization, because they're coming to eat. 00:26:00.060 |
And I want to make sure that they're being fed. 00:26:02.760 |
And if they're fed, they're going to have energy. 00:26:04.920 |
And if they have energy, then they're going to go out 00:26:07.240 |
And so I feel like, generally speaking, that's how I feel 00:26:15.460 |
I'm not blind to pockets of things that are going on. 00:26:18.080 |
But generally speaking, there is a stirring and hungering, 00:26:24.600 |
And to be honest, it really has nothing to do with us, 00:26:36.460 |
We're doing the same thing when nobody cared. 00:26:48.920 |
And I think people want to meet the Lord, you know. 00:26:58.720 |
Okay, let me open it up if you have any questions 00:27:03.320 |
I know we're Asian, so I don't expect anything. 00:27:35.900 |
the first time I heard somebody just end the prayer, 00:27:43.620 |
And I kept my eyes closed, and I said, "What was that?" 00:27:49.020 |
So it took me a while to get used to it because, you know, 00:27:54.880 |
So if you happen to go to church all your life with a suit on, 00:28:03.820 |
So I had to wrestle with, is that a biblical thing 00:28:07.980 |
that I need to kind of wrestle with, or is that something 00:28:11.700 |
And so my understanding when it says praying in Jesus' name, 00:28:17.840 |
Obviously, it's talking about in Jesus' name that my access 00:28:23.520 |
So I don't think it's an issue, as long as the person understands 00:28:34.480 |
I try to say it just because it's a comfort thing for me, 00:28:40.240 |
and I know that there's other people in the church that may kind 00:28:42.820 |
of like have a reaction, "Oh, he didn't say it." 00:28:44.900 |
But generally speaking, I don't want to make that like, "Okay, 00:29:12.640 |
>> Again, you know, there's a difference between, you know, 00:29:17.360 |
how we interpret Scripture that's prescriptive 00:29:20.140 |
Descriptive is we see it in the Scripture, like they did it. 00:29:24.160 |
There's a difference between that versus prescriptive saying, 00:29:28.100 |
So those things come, like saying in Jesus' name, 00:29:31.940 |
that's not even in the Bible, other than that, 00:29:33.760 |
it's just through church history, people have done that. 00:29:35.740 |
Saying amen is when you look at the Psalms, you know, 00:29:41.240 |
and they would say, "Selah," or they would say, "Amen," 00:29:46.700 |
it's just descriptive because we see it, right? 00:29:51.180 |
And that's their way of like, "Yes, thank you." 00:29:55.140 |
So it is not mandated, it just, we just see a pattern. 00:30:17.840 |
It's here, I don't know why it's not up here. 00:30:21.140 |
When BMC was planted, it wasn't like we had this plan, 00:30:26.380 |
you know, in five years, let's plant a church, 00:30:27.840 |
so let's raise up people so we can go plant a church. 00:30:39.040 |
Yes. But not just any church because, you know, 00:30:44.940 |
I see in Irvine like every year there's three or four churches 00:30:47.540 |
that want to come to Irvine because Irvine's a growing place 00:31:00.220 |
and doing the exact same thing, but you want your brand. 00:31:04.040 |
And so I remember when I was going out in the street doing 00:31:07.100 |
like homeless ministry, like other churches would come 00:31:09.960 |
and set up just down the street and we would tell them, "Hey, 00:31:12.820 |
we have a ministry here," but they wanted their church 00:31:16.100 |
It wasn't enough to feed the homeless, it's like it had 00:31:20.980 |
And eventually the reason why we stopped going was 00:31:23.180 |
because there was this large charismatic church that came. 00:31:27.620 |
This lady was cooking tortilla soup every week. 00:31:39.480 |
And then they were coming with these bags of tortilla chips 00:31:50.760 |
Even though we were there for like seven years, 00:31:52.320 |
we just kind of joined them, put our stuff on their table. 00:31:54.680 |
But the reason why we stopped going was because they started 00:32:03.200 |
the homeless people would stay away from the preaching 00:32:05.400 |
and then they would just come to eat and we didn't want 00:32:09.080 |
The reason why I share that story is because we have 00:32:19.340 |
That we want to make sure that it's the gospel, 00:32:21.040 |
that it's the kingdom of God that we're spreading, right? 00:32:27.600 |
When I say resources, I'm not just talking about money. 00:32:41.560 |
And the reason why I say that, I'm not saying that, you know, 00:32:44.920 |
only errant choys of the world can plant churches. 00:32:48.580 |
Pastor Aaron was very fruitful in our church. 00:32:54.260 |
not only his preaching and teaching, but his leadership. 00:32:58.100 |
The years that I've observed him, it wasn't -- 00:33:02.240 |
to me his primary gift isn't teaching, it's leadership. 00:33:07.800 |
He's able to make hard decisions even if it is unpopular. 00:33:14.040 |
So I've seen so many situations where you have a vision 00:33:17.440 |
and then you find people to plug in that vision, 00:33:19.540 |
and then they go out and then they struggle, you know. 00:33:22.840 |
I said, "Oh, how come God's not blessing us?" 00:33:24.580 |
So our typical way we do church planting is we have a vision 00:33:32.220 |
And I learned early on, and my philosophy is, 00:33:37.220 |
It was clear that God was working in Pastor Aaron's life. 00:33:41.120 |
And that -- so when he decided to plant a church, 00:33:50.380 |
So even now, like if we had another Aaron Choi, you know, 00:33:54.220 |
and I'm not saying that our other pastors are not capable, 00:33:57.180 |
you know, but I'm saying like everything that I saw 00:34:01.820 |
that would be required a high-end priority is necessary 00:34:06.420 |
to be able to lead in that capacity and to be successful, 00:34:12.240 |
There's a lot of people who are capable of teaching, 00:34:18.100 |
but they have a hard time like standing in front of people 00:34:25.520 |
And so when you plant the church and if you're weak in some 00:34:31.700 |
within the congregation, they start really struggling. 00:34:38.020 |
So if we were in China or in India where there's nothing, 00:34:48.980 |
We have people competing to bring people to their church. 00:34:51.880 |
So I would only plant the church if I thought 00:34:54.960 |
that the person who's planning the church are going to be able 00:34:57.440 |
to be effective in the context of all the other churches 00:35:02.240 |
So it's not -- so that we don't just add to like, 00:35:05.600 |
and here's another church because it's brilliant. 00:35:09.640 |
If you ask me personally, you know, like say, oh, 00:35:21.820 |
it would probably not be in the United States. 00:35:30.060 |
I didn't really even plant this church, though. 00:35:34.240 |
In fact, the interesting story was I had a group of friends, 00:35:44.100 |
They're all my age and already into professional careers, 00:35:52.420 |
But I didn't want to do it because I didn't feel 00:35:55.720 |
You know, I was burnt out, and I was in no condition 00:35:59.140 |
to lead a church and give them a vision and rally them up 00:36:02.180 |
And I was just trying to survive at that time. 00:36:04.460 |
And then I came to this church to help out because the guy 00:36:11.380 |
So I just came in to kind of plug in the role 00:36:15.300 |
And then we became a church plant with a bunch 00:36:17.960 |
of high school students and one college student, you know, 00:36:26.300 |
And people said, "Oh, you know, good thing you obeyed God." 00:36:35.520 |
It was like, "Lord, what do you want me to do?" 00:36:36.800 |
I saw a bunch of kids that I felt like wasn't going 00:36:44.680 |
You know, because if I was going to plant the church, 00:36:52.420 |
I'm not going to plant a church with a bunch of college students. 00:36:54.340 |
I just had two kids and I just had another kid 00:36:59.380 |
in about three years after we planted the church. 00:37:06.960 |
So everything about this church was just God had his plan 00:37:13.000 |
and I'm absolutely convinced when the scripture says 00:37:16.980 |
So when somebody asks what happened at this church, 00:37:19.720 |
I can only tell them what happened, how we got planted. 00:37:32.700 |
You know, in the first five, six years, nothing happened 00:37:36.520 |
We're not doing anything different, you know, 00:37:46.940 |
He said to preach the word faithfully in season 00:37:58.540 |
I can tell you five years like, oh, I would like to see this, 00:38:00.960 |
but in the end, nothing I planned worked, you know. 00:38:04.380 |
So it's not that I don't have thoughts, but in the end, 00:38:08.120 |
I'm going to let God bear the fruit and we're going to obey 00:38:12.060 |
So some people ask me like, what's your target group? 00:38:17.820 |
It's like, do you want multicultural, you know, 00:38:19.660 |
what group and I told people from the very beginning, 00:38:25.060 |
those are the people I'm going to minister to. 00:38:29.380 |
those are the people I'm going to minister to. 00:38:37.880 |
or different nationality, wherever God is working 00:38:40.680 |
and bringing, those are the people that are going to target. 00:38:47.620 |
So we don't have like a, I don't have a picture in my head 00:38:51.040 |
of what I want the church to look like, other than, you know, 00:38:58.940 |
the seeker-friendly movement was in full-blown, you know, 00:39:02.880 |
like every seeker-friendly church, you turn around, 00:39:12.060 |
and everywhere I went, they were telling me to get retrained, 00:39:14.700 |
you know, because I didn't know what I was doing, 00:39:17.020 |
because we're suffering, I'm not able to take care of my kids, 00:39:21.280 |
And it was so frustrating, not because I was tempted to do that, 00:39:27.760 |
and I remember, I mean, Joe knows, I used to say, like, 00:39:30.500 |
I'd rather dig ditches than to do church like that, 00:39:38.140 |
Playing games to get people to come to church, 00:39:40.620 |
At least if you dig a ditch, at the end of the day, 00:39:43.860 |
it's deeper than when you first started, you did something, right? 00:39:49.060 |
To build a church that has nothing to do with God, 00:39:51.580 |
just because you gather people, what does that do? 00:39:58.980 |
And so, but in the early church, those are the church that was growing. 00:40:05.860 |
And I'd say, "Yes," and they would just walk up. 00:40:09.900 |
The fact that we had membership was enough to turn people away, you know, 00:40:14.860 |
Our finance, I mean, in God's eyes, it was a blessing, 00:40:20.420 |
Basically, our whole budget for the five, six years of the church was, 00:40:32.060 |
We had no line item, like education, admissions, you know? 00:40:37.100 |
And the first time we had a meeting, we were trying to buy a projector, 00:40:40.700 |
and there was about 25 people in the room, and we're trying to buy a projector, 00:40:45.140 |
and there was an objection in the church because they're saying, like, 00:40:52.140 |
We couldn't pass it, so because they were against it, you know? 00:40:56.700 |
And then, so one of our elders actually just bought it, 00:40:59.460 |
and they just donated it to the church, and that's how we got our first projector. 00:41:04.100 |
It was like, those are two line items, rent, and then rest, go to the pastor, 00:41:08.740 |
But seriously, in the midst of all of that, like, God, you know, built the, 00:41:15.780 |
in my opinion, God built the church where he gets the credit. 00:41:19.420 |
Just like the apostles, like, oh, which apostle? 00:41:24.540 |
So, God chose a sinner to glorify the gospel, not Paul, not Peter, 00:41:38.740 |
You know, I started this church preaching through Romans every Friday. 00:41:42.500 |
You know what the first thing that I heard when I was preaching, 00:41:44.740 |
studying through Romans with Pastor Aaron and Luke and David Rim? 00:41:49.300 |
My first response from them was how much they hated coming to Friday Bible study 00:41:54.780 |
because it was so boring because they just came from the youth group, 00:41:59.220 |
and they were always having activity, like, tennis day and all that, 00:42:02.340 |
and all of a sudden, they come to the church, 00:42:04.260 |
and we're just going through the book of Romans. 00:42:08.700 |
Like, I'm just making it, just trying to pay bills, 00:42:12.420 |
and then the response I get is like, this is so boring. 00:42:24.220 |
It took, and I shared this story before, but the first person that I felt like I was able 00:42:37.020 |
He was preparing to go into CHP, and then he spent a lot of time 00:42:42.780 |
I think it was Calvary Chapel sermons that he was listening to. 00:42:45.140 |
He was listening to maybe about five, six, seven sermons a day 00:42:48.180 |
because he was doing delivery to architecture firms. 00:42:50.540 |
And this is three years into the church, you know, 00:42:57.860 |
You know, maybe I can do a better job expositing today, but at least in my mind, 00:43:02.020 |
I thought I was doing exposition, and just the response I got was not good. 00:43:07.660 |
You know, they would come, and they would hear the secret friendly sermons and say, 00:43:12.260 |
You know, we need to be more cutting edge, and we need to do this to reach out, 00:43:16.300 |
You know, my conscience will not allow me to do that. 00:43:23.860 |
Some people, you know, a lot of them early on, they stuck with the church 00:43:27.420 |
because we were such a young church, and we had, you know, 00:43:30.020 |
you know, we had a really good community where we genuinely loved each other. 00:43:35.260 |
And I cared for them, and I kind of functioned like a father figure for them. 00:43:39.180 |
You know, some of them, I taught them how to drive when they were younger, 00:43:41.980 |
and so that was the reason why they were there. 00:43:45.460 |
It took three years, and then Joe was the first one who came to me, 00:43:49.620 |
like literally in tears, he said, I get it, Peter. 00:43:58.540 |
Because I wanted to hear, you know, I see why you're preaching like that. 00:44:07.620 |
So he's the one who had the initial influence upon David and Pastor Aaron 00:44:15.900 |
and that group, because he was their small group leader. 00:44:17.900 |
So once he started to really like come alive, he started influencing them. 00:44:24.340 |
And then when they started getting influenced, it just kind of had a trickle effect, just slowly. 00:44:28.140 |
And then the church really didn't start to grow until they graduated college 00:44:32.460 |
and they had more time, because they were all -- 00:44:33.940 |
even though we were feeding them in the weekend, during the weekday, they were at CCM, 00:44:37.220 |
and everybody was just doing their own thing. 00:44:38.900 |
And then when they graduated and finally came and committed like fully to the church, 00:44:54.820 |
I had somebody come up to me after the sermon, and he's like -- 00:44:59.700 |
and with all sincerity, he came to me and he said, "Nothing ever happens at this church." 00:45:08.580 |
If I mention him, you'll know who he is, but I won't mention his name. 00:45:21.660 |
>> You mentioned a lot of like, well, or about how you're preaching change. 00:45:27.500 |
You know, I felt when you're a high school pastor or a college pastor, 00:45:31.620 |
I guess maybe in the last 10 years, how have you seen your preaching change? 00:45:40.700 |
>> You know, I didn't go to a master's seminary where they had a like, 00:45:45.900 |
So I -- to be honest, I just kind of learned on my own. 00:45:50.780 |
And the way it started was -- it started when I was a youth pastor, 00:45:54.340 |
because I started preaching topically because that's all I knew. 00:45:57.540 |
And then I started preaching through the Bible, at least what I thought was 00:46:02.140 |
through the Bible, because I just ran out of material. 00:46:07.980 |
How many times do you talk about lordship and giving and stewardship and discipleship? 00:46:11.980 |
And after about 20 sermons, you have to recycle that in a different manner. 00:46:15.340 |
So I started preaching through John, and then I went to Philippians. 00:46:18.740 |
And then so I started preaching, and then I noticed like I enjoyed it much more, 00:46:24.980 |
I was learning as I was -- so I would say majority of those sermons I probably would throw away, 00:46:33.540 |
So some sermons sounded like a commentary, because I just took the commentaries, 00:46:37.860 |
and this is what it says, and then after a few months of that, I was like, "Oh, this is not working." 00:46:46.660 |
So when we first started this church, it's like I was committed to expository preaching, 00:46:51.500 |
but what that looked like in an actual sermon, I just kind of figured out, right? 00:46:55.940 |
So I probably sound a little bit different, you know, from the beginning. 00:47:01.300 |
So committed to expository preaching, but how much of the Bible is quoted, 00:47:05.100 |
how much of the like the nuances, syntax was quoted in the sermons, 00:47:12.060 |
Last 10 years, when you ask the last 10 years, the way it changed was something that I realized 00:47:17.780 |
that maybe I wasn't doing well was connecting the text to the metanarrative. 00:47:22.860 |
When I say metanarrative, it's God's redemptive history. 00:47:26.660 |
So seeing the text, not just in the context of that verse or that letter, 00:47:31.500 |
but in what God's doing in history, because if you look at it as one letter from Genesis 00:47:36.700 |
to Revelation, even if you're studying Ephesians, 00:47:40.020 |
that Ephesians is a part of the larger letter. 00:47:41.980 |
So where does that fit into redemptive history? 00:47:44.860 |
So I would say that's one thing that really kind of like if there was any radical change, 00:47:50.540 |
like I realized not that I wasn't thinking that, 00:47:52.940 |
but maybe I wasn't communicating that enough, right? 00:47:56.700 |
So I wasn't communicating enough, like how does this connect to the redemptive history? 00:48:02.300 |
And so I made a deliberate decision to make an effort to connect to that, right? 00:48:08.420 |
So if there's any change, so if anybody's been here in the preaching in the last 15 years 00:48:12.620 |
and if you've probably seen any kind of change, that's probably the change. 00:48:16.180 |
So it's not how I'm interpreting the passage, but how I'm applying that passage 00:48:20.420 |
in the context of the larger message that's going on. 00:48:23.220 |
So in that sense, I probably, you know, that would be a major, it's not a shift, 00:48:27.820 |
it's just a greater effort to connect to that. 00:48:30.260 |
Yeah. I think that's what you're asking, right? 00:48:38.020 |
No, no. So that was a conscious decision that I made, 00:48:41.380 |
but there's nothing else specifically that I changed other than that. 00:48:46.060 |
Yeah, I was wrestling with this, you know, which is interesting 00:48:59.260 |
because I didn't think about what I did early on in the church, 00:49:04.500 |
but I decided to, I'm probably going to go into the book of Hebrews, 00:49:09.500 |
mainly because Hebrews is what connects Leviticus to the New Testament. 00:49:14.220 |
And so because we're going to finish up Leviticus, by the time we finish up Leviticus, 00:49:19.340 |
And so Hebrews is going to help connect it all together. 00:49:22.460 |
And after I made the decision, I was looking back at my sermon notes and see, 00:49:27.180 |
that's exactly what I did in the early part of the church. 00:49:29.340 |
I studied through the Romans and then I jumped through Hebrews. 00:49:32.540 |
And I mentioned that today, that Pastor Aaron's first sermon was based upon, 00:49:36.220 |
you know, one of the teachings on Melchizedek. 00:49:39.340 |
And then, um, it's because that's what I was on. 00:49:42.300 |
When we finished Romans, I jumped into Hebrews. 00:49:44.180 |
So my brain is wired the same way as back then. 00:49:48.220 |
Yeah. So most likely I'm going to jump into Hebrews, 00:49:53.620 |
but it was studied like 18 years ago, 17 years ago. 00:49:56.980 |
It's only about, huh? Seven, eight years ago. 00:50:01.460 |
Did I preach it on Sunday? Was it Bible study? 00:50:03.260 |
Oh, the Bible study. Okay. But I did do that in the early church too. 00:50:08.020 |
So that was, this would be my third time through it. 00:50:20.220 |
You know, sometimes I, not for the purpose of general consumption. 00:50:27.620 |
So my dad wrote like several books, autobiography, you know, 00:50:32.620 |
and he wrote it for his students when he was a teacher. And he, you know, 00:50:36.180 |
he was like a New Testament scholar. He churches, 00:50:41.820 |
which I didn't benefit at all because he was in Korean. 00:50:45.420 |
So I looked at his books and I didn't understand any of it. 00:50:48.180 |
So one day I want to translate his autobiography and he read it very, 00:50:53.580 |
like he wrote it, wrote it kind of like devotionally. 00:50:56.140 |
And he went through his life since childhood and then he would have like a 00:50:59.180 |
devotional point. He would go through a passage and how that played out. 00:51:02.460 |
And so I want to translate that for the grandkids, for them to have. 00:51:07.220 |
So I kind of thought about just for the purpose of my kids to write kind of like 00:51:14.980 |
And I would be the second generation of that like part two of that book would be, 00:51:19.300 |
would be that. So I thought about that for that purpose. 00:51:23.620 |
But generally, I don't know, I may change my mind, but generally speaking, 00:51:36.420 |
is there anything new that I can say that hasn't been said by somebody? 00:51:44.420 |
And do I want people scrutinize my life after I die? 00:51:52.260 |
So like I was born and to be responsible for what God has given me here, 00:52:01.740 |
there's so many people that have gone before me that are living now and probably 00:52:06.740 |
will go after me or smarter, better, God, dear, you know? Um, 00:52:10.940 |
so like, I, you know, you know what I mean? You kind of throw it like, 00:52:14.460 |
I feel like you're in an NBA game. It's like, Hey, let me take a shot. 00:52:19.500 |
Yeah. So I feel like a small fish in that, in that big pond. 00:52:23.420 |
And so I don't have that. Like, Oh, he'd be great if I left. 00:52:28.100 |
Maybe for my kids, maybe for the purpose of church history, you know, 00:52:33.220 |
for, for our church people who are committed to bring in. But to be honest, 00:52:37.220 |
like is bringing going to be here, you know, 50 years from now, 00:52:41.220 |
a hundred years from now, you know, like great churches who didn't, 00:52:47.860 |
So I'm not going to assume that that's going to happen. 00:52:52.460 |
I hope for my kids sake and for your kids sake of our grandkids sake that they 00:52:59.020 |
but look at church history and look at Bible history. 00:53:02.540 |
Some of the greatest men had the worst kids, right? 00:53:09.060 |
one of the best Kings in Israel had the, one of the worst Kings right after 00:53:14.820 |
God extended his life for 15 years. And Manasseh comes out of that. 00:53:18.740 |
So I only know today, so we'll see what happens tomorrow. 00:53:46.260 |
how many years I've been with Pastor Peter is he does, 00:54:00.060 |
Why I say, cause this was all I knew. Cause I, I came from Irvine Baptist, 00:54:17.540 |
it was something that I didn't know what to do to be honest. 00:54:21.860 |
And it was, you know, he says he didn't know what he was doing, 00:54:25.940 |
but God was still working. So I was, you know, 00:54:29.940 |
it started with high school, but so he brought in one of my old pastors from 00:54:37.780 |
and he was very consistent with preaching the word and emphasizing that. 00:54:47.860 |
an emphasis on the Bible. So, you know, what, what, 00:54:53.420 |
furthermore, I didn't know any other churches to go to. 00:55:10.340 |
is there anything like you're noticing the culture of trend that you feel like 00:55:19.020 |
it'd be dangerous that might be coming into the church? 00:55:23.380 |
Yeah. I mean that, that, that's a constant concern because it, 00:55:31.420 |
I think the greatest challenge to the church is always complacency. 00:55:38.060 |
Like there's doctrines, there's like, you know, movements coming, 00:55:45.340 |
is not the fighting. It's not like that, that like we're coming in, 00:55:51.060 |
like it's not that cause that actually caused you to be sober because like, 00:55:56.460 |
Cause the study of the Bible and then address that issue. 00:55:59.180 |
And it kind of gathers a church. People ask, you know, 00:56:03.020 |
even about the last church discipline that we had at the church, you know, 00:56:07.740 |
It actually was very sanctifying in the church because it kind of solidified our 00:56:11.740 |
leadership and we spent two days and it really felt like, man, 00:56:15.100 |
we're in the trenches together that I'm not doing this by myself, that these, 00:56:18.580 |
these other elders and leaders are, are in the trenches with me. 00:56:23.380 |
It was the years of dealing with that by myself that that was hard. 00:56:27.580 |
But this time around, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't just me, you know? 00:56:31.260 |
So yes, there are stuff that are coming that I'm aware of. 00:56:35.060 |
But the thing that's always on my mind is the constant drifting that, 00:56:40.020 |
that we experience on a day to day basis. Um, cause just cause where we live, 00:56:45.060 |
you know, that's, to me, that's the, that's the biggest problem. 00:56:51.180 |
you're slipping away and you don't even realize it until you're there and then 00:56:56.500 |
you try to get back and it is so hard when your heart is like, 00:57:00.820 |
you know what I mean? A revival heart that you've neglected for that long. 00:57:04.220 |
It's not something that happens because you went to a retreat and you heard one 00:57:07.140 |
summer sermon and in years of just sticking to what's right. 00:57:13.500 |
So if there's anything I'm concerned about more than anything else, 00:57:16.840 |
that we don't erode and keep working on the same things that we've been working 00:57:23.060 |
So that's how we're going back to the basics because nothing has changed. 00:57:26.980 |
We want to like the word of God, proper worship, 00:57:30.420 |
loving one another and evangelizing is what we're going to keep doing. 00:57:34.820 |
We'll make sure that we don't stray from that. 00:57:36.420 |
Just a quick question. Like, um, I would think a few years ago we would, uh, 00:57:51.180 |
we were just involved in China and then like there were the summers where like 00:57:55.020 |
the majority of the churches go out. And nowadays, like now, 00:57:58.740 |
it's like we're involved in several different countries. 00:58:01.300 |
How would you advise us to like as like individually and also as entire 00:58:08.380 |
congregation to continue to, uh, like participate and be involved in the mission? 00:58:12.340 |
I mean, clearly there is a growing desire, um, in India for sure. 00:58:24.340 |
we had to close it before we even opened it because there's, you know, 00:58:27.980 |
and people know that we're not going into a safe area. This is not like a, you know, 00:58:32.060 |
walk through the park and, and I'm like deliberately scaring people, you know, 00:58:36.700 |
it's like you have to take your things in order and make sure your bank account, 00:58:41.860 |
but I'm encouraged to see people like want to be challenged and to participate 00:58:46.580 |
in God's work. And there's a lot of people who desire that, you know, 00:58:50.220 |
when we were going to China, you know, like there was a stirring excitement. 00:58:53.980 |
You guys were young, it was easily mobilized and we were, 00:58:58.220 |
we had momentum for like five, six, seven years in a row where we built 00:59:01.500 |
relationships. So I don't think our church had a heart for China itself. 00:59:05.660 |
We had a heart for the people that we met in China because they became friends, 00:59:12.420 |
that we wanted to go and meet them and follow up with them. 00:59:14.660 |
Right now there's a little bit of a disconnect because we don't have that right 00:59:17.620 |
now. You know, it's like the idea of China, idea of Japan. And then India, 00:59:22.260 |
there's a more of a connection because we know the pastors. Um, 00:59:25.500 |
at some point I think that's going to get reconnected once our missionaries 00:59:28.460 |
settled down and they do work and we're going to end up like supporting them. 00:59:32.580 |
but we're in a different stage where we were going out helping other 00:59:38.300 |
And then we were doing support work and then when we switched that from 00:59:42.380 |
but they were going through transition because they're not established. 00:59:47.620 |
it was harder for us to connect with the students because they were 00:59:50.860 |
transitioning. So I think at some point once they get settled in, 00:59:54.700 |
it'd be easier to know what we're doing, you know, but, but now it's going to, 00:59:59.340 |
we have to wait for them to get settled in and then to get into, 01:00:02.140 |
jump into that, whether that's in Japan or, or in China. Uh, 01:00:05.540 |
I would encourage you to, you know, if you have opportunities, 01:00:08.540 |
especially when you're younger and you're not, you know, 01:00:13.580 |
of children and that kind of stuff to take advantage of that. You know, 01:00:17.620 |
one thing I really enjoy, like what Pastor Peter was able to do, 01:00:26.140 |
the part of the reason why he couldn't do that is because of where he is in 01:00:29.260 |
stage in life. You know, he, he's seen all of these things, 01:00:32.500 |
but he can't do that anymore because he has to leave his kids half the time, 01:00:36.660 |
you know? So if you're young and you're free, you know, 01:00:41.980 |
And instead of just using that to go travel and see beautiful things, you know, 01:00:46.620 |
again, there's nothing wrong with that, but take that opportunity to see, 01:00:49.940 |
you know, even if it's just to see like what's going on and you're hard for 01:00:55.020 |
Japan, you're hard for China, you're hard for India. 01:00:57.260 |
It's not going to come from here is when you actually rub shoulders, 01:01:02.780 |
and fellowship with them and they become friends. Man, 01:01:05.860 |
India was such a foreign weird place and it still is, 01:01:11.660 |
Not because the country has become less weird is because we become friends with 01:01:15.220 |
those pastors. So when I think of India now, I don't think of idolatry and, 01:01:19.180 |
you know, and those temples. Now I think of those pastors. 01:01:22.660 |
So now it doesn't seem as strange because of them. 01:01:28.180 |
you have to open the doors to rub shoulders with those people. Okay. 01:01:32.260 |
Let me end with this. And then, so some of you guys who need to go can go, 01:01:35.780 |
and then we can, if you want to stick around and ask them questions, 01:01:38.100 |
I'll stick around and I'll just, I'll just say this, 01:01:41.460 |
like all this stuff going on at church and ministry missions and all this stuff 01:01:45.700 |
and all of these things are important. I, I really like, 01:01:50.180 |
and I was just praying that even this morning, you know, 01:01:53.060 |
and I was like really praying that I want our church to know that Jesus that 01:01:58.060 |
saved me and all these years he's been faithful to me. 01:02:12.500 |
I don't have this grand vision of like I want to have all these churches and 01:02:15.980 |
evangelize the world. And all of these things are commanded in scripture. 01:02:26.460 |
what makes me want to keep doing what I'm doing is I want you to see who Jesus 01:02:31.460 |
is. Not that I have such a perfect vision of him, 01:02:37.820 |
but the Christ that I've come to know, I can't help but to love him. 01:02:47.180 |
even more than my kids. It's hard to explain, 01:02:54.620 |
And I feel like if people can come to see that, if I can just, 01:03:00.380 |
if I can just kind of like take what he's shown me and I wish I was, 01:03:07.340 |
Sometimes I wish I could write songs because I feel like they can express 01:03:11.740 |
themselves so much better. Sometimes I feel like I could, 01:03:14.180 |
I wish I could paint because the painters can like take what's in their mind and 01:03:19.100 |
the heart, just put it onto canvas and people can see that. 01:03:22.060 |
And my way of doing is through preaching, you know, but I, I, 01:03:27.420 |
I wish my desire for our churches to see that Christ. 01:03:37.380 |
he's lovable. I think evangelism will happen. 01:03:40.700 |
Discipleship will happen. Like mission will happen. Church will happen. 01:03:44.820 |
Fellowship will happen, you know, because when you love something, 01:03:49.060 |
you naturally want to share it. Yeah. So all this other stuff, 01:03:53.380 |
I'm trying to figure it out myself. You know, 01:03:55.700 |
I was talking to Pastor Aaron and he's like, you know, 01:03:57.340 |
I thought I knew what I was doing. Now the church is at 230. 01:04:00.220 |
I have no idea what I'm doing, you know, and I said, good, 01:04:02.940 |
then we can fellowship because I don't know either, you know, 01:04:11.340 |
And then if you have any other questions, well, I'll stick around. 01:04:17.420 |
And I thank you for my brothers and sisters here in this room and the work that 01:04:23.540 |
I thank you Lord God that you've sovereignly brought them to our church, 01:04:29.180 |
that even in our weakness we can cover over each other. Lord, 01:04:33.380 |
we have no idea what you have planned in the future, 01:04:38.740 |
but you've been so faithful to us all these years. Lord God, 01:04:51.780 |
just how helpless our church would be if it was dependent upon any man. 01:04:57.100 |
I, we thank you, Father God, that you seek your own glory. 01:05:07.540 |
I thank you for my brothers and sisters here. I pray Father God, 01:05:11.940 |
for all of us, including myself, that you would open our eyes, 01:05:15.220 |
that we may see a clear and clear vision of the loveliness of Christ, 01:05:20.220 |
that all that we do may simply be a reasonable response of the grace that you 01:05:25.660 |
give us. Thank you, Father. In Jesus name we pray. Amen.