Bogleheads University 501 2024 The Decision to Retire & Creating a Meaningful Life After Retirement

00:00:00.000 | (audience applauding)

00:00:03.160 | Our next guest is a good friend of mine,

00:00:08.760 | previous business partner of mine,

00:00:11.040 | and somebody that I think one of the best things

00:00:15.040 | I can say about him is that in him there is no guile, okay?

00:00:20.040 | What I love about Leif Dahlin,

00:00:22.520 | who is the founder of the Physician on Fire website,

00:00:26.320 | blog, if you've seen that,

00:00:27.800 | what I love about him is that he is so genuine.

00:00:31.520 | He tells you what he is and what he wants,

00:00:34.760 | and you know him for years,

00:00:36.680 | and that's truly what he wants.

00:00:38.680 | And it's very admirable in that he figured out

00:00:41.420 | what he wanted at a time when many of us

00:00:43.600 | aren't sure what we wanted,

00:00:45.240 | and actually retired from medicine at the age of 43, right?

00:00:49.640 | And has pursued the retired life since then.

00:00:53.160 | So he's gonna be talking to us today

00:00:54.760 | about the decision to retire, number one,

00:00:57.680 | and number two, creating a meaningful life after retirement,

00:01:01.240 | including an early retirement.

00:01:02.940 | Leif, come on up.

00:01:04.060 | - We're good, we're good.

00:01:04.900 | All right, awesome, thank you, Jim.

00:01:05.960 | Wonderful introduction.

00:01:07.640 | It's definitely an honor to be here

00:01:09.500 | at the Bogleheads Conference speaking to you all.

00:01:12.160 | I've wanted to come to one of these conferences for years.

00:01:14.560 | I think I've been a lurker and an occasional contributor

00:01:17.960 | at Bogleheads for close to a decade,

00:01:20.460 | not two decades like Jim,

00:01:22.280 | but for a pretty good long while.

00:01:24.760 | And it's also an honor to be back home in Minnesota.

00:01:29.680 | Like Jonathan, I'm a native Minnesotan.

00:01:32.560 | I spent my first 26 years here,

00:01:35.720 | and I came back and finished up my anesthesia career

00:01:39.080 | up in Brainerd, Minnesota.

00:01:41.080 | And tonight, right after this talk, in fact,

00:01:45.920 | I'll be heading south to my high school reunion.

00:01:49.140 | It's 30 years, so you can do the math

00:01:53.400 | and surmise that I'm 48.

00:01:55.400 | And you might be wondering why I'm up here

00:01:57.160 | talking about retirement.

00:01:58.960 | You know, 48-year-old kid compared to some of you.

00:02:02.760 | But yeah, like Jim said, I retired

00:02:05.440 | not only once from anesthesia in 2019,

00:02:08.080 | but again from the physician on fire online website,

00:02:12.080 | online business, about a year and a half ago

00:02:14.120 | when I sold it to a couple of physicians.

00:02:15.720 | So deciding to retire is something

00:02:18.200 | that I have done two times now.

00:02:20.160 | It's something that I contemplated

00:02:21.700 | and considered quite a lot.

00:02:23.760 | And so I'm gonna spend about 30 minutes

00:02:26.620 | on these two topics, which doesn't give us a lot of time,

00:02:30.640 | but I still want to have a little bit of fun

00:02:32.480 | with you all before we get started.

00:02:34.800 | And so I want to quickly, as a native Minnesotan,

00:02:38.680 | teach you how to speak Minnesotan, okay?

00:02:42.760 | So this is going to be a repeat-after-me exercise,

00:02:45.960 | and I want you to focus not only on the words,

00:02:48.480 | but on the pronunciation, okay?

00:02:51.460 | So, I want to hear you repeat after me.

00:02:55.120 | Go gophers.

00:02:57.220 | (audience laughing)

00:02:59.760 | Row the boat.

00:03:01.980 | (audience laughing)

00:03:05.040 | Yeah, sure, you betcha.

00:03:07.100 | (audience laughing)

00:03:09.520 | Oof-da.

00:03:10.360 | All right, very good.

00:03:12.720 | You're all honorary Minnesotans.

00:03:14.700 | Give yourself a hand.

00:03:16.520 | (audience applauding)

00:03:21.100 | All right, so it would be remiss to talk about retirement

00:03:25.380 | without mentioning the money part.

00:03:27.620 | Now, other speakers here can talk circles around me

00:03:31.820 | on the withdrawal rates, variable withdrawal rates,

00:03:35.700 | but I like to refer back to the 4% rule as a rule of thumb.

00:03:39.140 | Maybe you like 3.5%.

00:03:40.740 | Maybe you are willing to take a little more risk

00:03:43.380 | and go with 4%, but the gist of it is to know

00:03:47.180 | that you have saved up about 25 times the money you need

00:03:52.180 | to make up for any shortfall in income that you might have

00:03:55.300 | to cover your expenses in retirement.

00:03:58.380 | And I think the difficult thing

00:04:00.220 | that maybe isn't discussed as much

00:04:01.900 | when we're talking about percentages

00:04:04.000 | and finite dollar amounts is how much variation

00:04:07.540 | there's going to be, not only from year to year,

00:04:10.500 | but also the difference between before you retire

00:04:14.180 | and after you retire.

00:04:15.600 | The difference between having younger kids

00:04:18.180 | and teenagers or adult kids, et cetera.

00:04:21.460 | So your expenses can be all over the place.

00:04:23.540 | And obviously you want to account

00:04:25.580 | for things like social security.

00:04:27.620 | If you're fortunate enough to have a pension

00:04:30.540 | and, well, health insurance, healthcare coverage,

00:04:33.520 | that's something that many of us have provided

00:04:36.100 | by our employers, but when you retire,

00:04:39.180 | you may have to purchase by yourself for the first time.

00:04:42.300 | You know, in my budget that I created five years ago,

00:04:44.940 | not really a budget, but it was more for a blog post.

00:04:47.600 | I just wrote up, like, here's what 80 grand would buy,

00:04:50.100 | and I think that would be a decent retirement spending

00:04:53.760 | amount for myself.

00:04:55.120 | Now, that was five years ago.

00:04:56.060 | That might be 100 grand now,

00:04:57.220 | and that's probably about where we're at.

00:04:58.780 | But 20 grand of that was healthcare,

00:05:01.980 | and my premium is now a loan of about 15 grand,

00:05:05.140 | and that's for a bronze HSA plan,

00:05:07.260 | which is not top of the line by any means.

00:05:09.980 | So there are going to be new expenses.

00:05:12.180 | You're going to have some expenses that go away.

00:05:14.020 | You may not have to commute anymore.

00:05:16.340 | That can be a significant expense,

00:05:19.240 | not to mention a source of stress.

00:05:21.700 | Professional attire, if you have a job

00:05:23.820 | where you wear a suit and tie often,

00:05:26.460 | well, you won't have to buy too many more of those,

00:05:29.160 | unless you go to speak at Bogleheads.

00:05:31.020 | But this is a tie that I probably picked up

00:05:34.220 | at a garage sale.

00:05:35.420 | It says Metrodome, Minnesota.

00:05:38.100 | You may know the Metrodome collapsed

00:05:39.740 | in a very Minnesotan way

00:05:41.060 | by being weighed down by too much snow,

00:05:43.740 | so they replaced it with US Bank Stadium,

00:05:45.960 | which is a great place,

00:05:47.300 | and I was there on Sunday for the Vikings victory.

00:05:50.020 | Go Vikes.

00:05:51.060 | All right.

00:05:52.700 | Other things that change.

00:05:54.940 | When I retired from anesthesia,

00:05:56.860 | I started traveling with my family,

00:05:58.780 | and the goal was to spend six to eight months traveling,

00:06:02.820 | four to six months home in northern Michigan.

00:06:06.120 | That didn't work out once that virus

00:06:09.100 | started circulating around,

00:06:10.780 | right around the time of Jim's WC icon in Las Vegas,

00:06:14.820 | but we did get to travel quite a lot,

00:06:17.300 | and when you maintain a home at home,

00:06:19.700 | and are traveling, of course, your expenses are higher.

00:06:22.900 | And then the quote-unquote one-time expenses,

00:06:26.580 | well, they don't just happen one time,

00:06:28.740 | they happen once or twice a year, I've found,

00:06:31.060 | and I think that you need to factor in those things.

00:06:34.180 | So tracking your expenses for a year is a good idea,

00:06:37.080 | but it is just a starting point.

00:06:40.540 | All right.

00:06:41.380 | One more year syndrome, right?

00:06:44.020 | Anyone suffer from this in the past or presently?

00:06:46.900 | Yeah.

00:06:47.740 | So it's the idea that, well, I think I have enough,

00:06:51.580 | but if I were just to work one more year,

00:06:54.380 | and let's say I can set aside 100 grand,

00:06:56.920 | that's $4,000 a year for life, that's a lot of money, right?

00:07:00.820 | Make, you know, set aside twice as much,

00:07:03.060 | working maybe a few years,

00:07:04.380 | or having a really good job that pays really well,

00:07:07.140 | well, that's $8,000 a year for life, right?

00:07:09.340 | So you could buy season tickets,

00:07:11.260 | maybe it's an extra vacation,

00:07:14.220 | first class for most if not all of your flights,

00:07:18.100 | maybe just a really nice bicycle, you know?

00:07:20.140 | And I did work one more year, four or five times,

00:07:25.140 | but, you know, it worked out.

00:07:27.580 | I do have season tickets to the Gophers,

00:07:29.780 | even though I live in Michigan.

00:07:31.980 | It's a 10-hour drive,

00:07:33.060 | but I usually come over for a week or two every fall,

00:07:35.740 | get in a couple, maybe three games,

00:07:37.740 | and, you know, for me, it was worth it.

00:07:39.740 | You know, the counterpoint to this is that

00:07:43.220 | when you determine how much you wanna spend,

00:07:44.780 | it should include things like the really nice bicycle,

00:07:47.500 | the first class flights, if that's what you want,

00:07:49.740 | your season tickets, et cetera.

00:07:51.820 | And in terms of having money,

00:07:58.100 | you know, with the safe withdrawal rates,

00:07:59.780 | we often focus on a dollar figure,

00:08:02.900 | but there is an asset location component

00:08:06.940 | that is very important because we all know

00:08:09.580 | that $3 million in an IRA is different than 3 million

00:08:13.940 | in a Roth IRA is different than a combination

00:08:17.060 | of 2 million in a 401(k) with a million in taxable.

00:08:20.740 | And so I like to break it down and think of it

00:08:22.780 | in terms of different epochs or timeframes

00:08:26.500 | in which you will be potentially spending money

00:08:29.460 | as a retiree.

00:08:31.100 | Before age 59 and a half,

00:08:32.980 | that's when you have somewhat more limited access

00:08:36.260 | to your retirement funds, of course.

00:08:38.140 | A taxable brokerage account, non-qualified account,

00:08:41.100 | well, that is really easy to take money from

00:08:44.060 | when you want to at any age.

00:08:46.020 | There are tax implications, of course.

00:08:48.100 | Passive income, in big, fat quotations.

00:08:52.900 | That's, you know, rental income from rental properties

00:08:56.220 | you own, might be small business.

00:08:58.740 | There are some not-so-passive passive incomes.

00:09:01.660 | There is truly passive income,

00:09:03.460 | like dividends from your Vanguard account.

00:09:06.980 | But that will all come to you at any age.

00:09:10.820 | SEPP, I feel like that should be a repeat after me.

00:09:15.780 | Say substantially equal periodic payments.

00:09:18.180 | Yeah, it's tough.

00:09:21.500 | Yeah, but that's Rule 72(t)

00:09:24.380 | that allows you to set up withdrawals

00:09:27.700 | from tax-deferred account, like an IRA,

00:09:30.340 | and get equal amounts every year

00:09:32.820 | until you do reach the age of 59 1/2.

00:09:35.980 | There are rules, and it's kind of like the RMD rules,

00:09:38.740 | where if you screw up and take too much or too little,

00:09:41.700 | it could be problematic, and the fines can be quite severe.

00:09:45.420 | But it is a kind of a neat way to access your IRA early.

00:09:50.420 | Roth ladder is not a favorite technique of mine,

00:09:53.220 | but it is a way, if all of your money is tax-deferred

00:09:56.340 | and you don't have a lot of other places

00:09:58.300 | to draw income from, if you start five years in advance,

00:10:02.020 | start converting your money to a Roth IRA from tax-deferred.

00:10:06.940 | Five years later, that money has seasoned,

00:10:09.020 | and the amount that was converted can be withdrawn

00:10:12.020 | and used to fund your retirement.

00:10:13.940 | So it's a ladder, just like a bond ladder,

00:10:16.100 | where you do it each year, and then starting in year five,

00:10:19.140 | you have rolling ability to take out the amount converted.

00:10:22.980 | I don't like to take money out of a Roth IRA

00:10:24.820 | because it's very valuable money.

00:10:26.580 | It will grow tax-free.

00:10:27.940 | But if you are in a situation

00:10:30.260 | where almost all of your funds are tax-deferred,

00:10:32.500 | it can be useful.

00:10:34.820 | The next epoch is age 59 1/2,

00:10:38.060 | to the age at which you can take RMDs.

00:10:40.060 | Currently, that's around 72, 73.

00:10:43.060 | This is also the epoch in which you will decide

00:10:45.380 | when to take Social Security.

00:10:47.140 | That's an entire 'nother talk.

00:10:49.740 | But in general, if you are in good health

00:10:52.540 | and you have longevity on your side,

00:10:55.220 | it is usually a pretty good idea

00:10:57.940 | to delay as long as you can, perhaps to age 70.

00:11:01.740 | Mike Piper right there is an expert on that.

00:11:04.220 | He has a great calculator online

00:11:05.900 | that can help you determine when you,

00:11:08.700 | and if you have one, your spouse,

00:11:10.260 | should take Social Security.

00:11:13.060 | Once you reach RMD age,

00:11:16.060 | there may be a role for QCDs.

00:11:18.780 | That was mentioned earlier.

00:11:22.420 | And I didn't mention that Roth conversions.

00:11:26.740 | So RMDs, obviously the Required Minimum Distribution,

00:11:30.900 | they can get to be problematic

00:11:34.340 | in a way that they might push you into a tax bracket

00:11:36.700 | you don't want to be in,

00:11:38.020 | and you might be receiving more money

00:11:39.700 | than you plan to spend.

00:11:40.940 | And so what's great about the Qualified Charitable Distribution

00:11:44.860 | is that it effectively acts

00:11:46.940 | as an above-the-line tax deduction.

00:11:49.660 | So you take money from your 401(k), IRA,

00:11:53.900 | give it directly to charity.

00:11:55.180 | It does not pass through you.

00:11:57.260 | It does not go on to your 1040.

00:12:00.180 | And so it effectively lowers your AGI or MAGI,

00:12:05.740 | which is used to determine things like IRMA,

00:12:07.980 | the income, yeah.

00:12:11.140 | Again, this is the 501 track, right?

00:12:13.220 | Yeah, monthly adjustment amount.

00:12:18.020 | But anyway, so it's a really useful way

00:12:21.780 | to satisfy a portion of your RMD,

00:12:24.100 | up to $100,000 per year per person.

00:12:26.860 | So if you're married, you could do $200,000

00:12:28.500 | between the two of you and be charitable

00:12:31.900 | if that is what you are inclined to be.

00:12:35.860 | Speaking of charitable,

00:12:37.180 | I've done a little bit of charity work.

00:12:40.340 | This is my younger son and I in the operating room

00:12:44.060 | at a small facility in Honduras.

00:12:48.220 | And it was really cool to let him see what I do for a living.

00:12:51.980 | Now, in this picture, you can't tell,

00:12:54.060 | but the monitor is blank.

00:12:55.020 | There's no patient hooked up,

00:12:56.500 | so we're not goofing around during surgery.

00:13:00.020 | But he did get to see a little bit

00:13:01.540 | of what it's like to be in there

00:13:02.940 | and what I do or what I did for a living.

00:13:06.260 | And of course, I had to decide if I would be okay

00:13:10.300 | just not doing that anymore

00:13:12.260 | because, of course, I was a doctor.

00:13:14.380 | It was a part of my identity.

00:13:16.540 | And I think for some people and for some other people,

00:13:19.740 | it's an even larger part of the identity

00:13:21.900 | so when you decide to retire,

00:13:23.900 | know that you're leaving behind that identity.

00:13:26.340 | You're leaving behind a purpose.

00:13:29.140 | And I made that two words, on purpose,

00:13:31.460 | because hopefully work isn't your sole purpose.

00:13:35.980 | But it may be a primary one

00:13:37.940 | and replacing it can be challenging.

00:13:40.460 | Social life, a lot of people have a lot of work friends,

00:13:44.940 | a lot of close friends at work,

00:13:46.380 | satisfy, and maybe don't even realize it,

00:13:48.660 | but a lot of their needs of having connections

00:13:53.660 | and relationships through work.

00:13:57.060 | And that disappears really quickly when you leave,

00:14:00.100 | especially if you move away from where you were working

00:14:03.860 | as I did when we went back to Michigan

00:14:05.940 | where my wife's family was.

00:14:07.780 | All right, so you're leaving behind a paycheck.

00:14:10.260 | Now we've already said you got the money part figured out,

00:14:13.780 | you saved enough money, but there is a psychological aspect

00:14:17.180 | of behavioral finance piece of not having regular cash flow

00:14:22.180 | and not having extra so you can hit buy on VTSAX

00:14:27.420 | instead of sell.

00:14:28.740 | And so making that transition can be painful.

00:14:32.500 | Leaving behind an alarm clock, not painful.

00:14:35.820 | Love it, love it.

00:14:37.820 | I'm a sleep enthusiast and I enjoy the fact that,

00:14:41.340 | well, I mean, we have kids going to school,

00:14:43.580 | we do use the alarm clock maybe more

00:14:45.740 | than I thought I would.

00:14:46.740 | But not having it, especially for a few years

00:14:50.100 | where my kids were not going to school,

00:14:52.700 | well, it was wonderful.

00:14:53.860 | Commuting, obviously, if you are someone

00:14:57.620 | who actually goes to work, when you go to work,

00:15:01.020 | you can stop doing that.

00:15:02.740 | And jobs can be stressful, the commute itself,

00:15:05.540 | and you can leave that all behind.

00:15:07.660 | You also gain some things when you retire.

00:15:10.520 | We gain time freedom, right?

00:15:14.020 | You might have 40 hours a week that you get to replace

00:15:16.420 | with whatever you want to do.

00:15:18.300 | I found that location independence was key for me.

00:15:22.420 | When I left my anesthesia job,

00:15:26.220 | took that opportunity to take our kids out of school

00:15:28.540 | and we timed it so that they would be finishing

00:15:31.020 | grade school, maybe skip part of junior high.

00:15:33.700 | And so for four years, we did all that traveling.

00:15:36.820 | And we were able to kind of recreate a honeymoon photo

00:15:40.700 | with this sign in Talkeetna, Alaska.

00:15:43.620 | I know a place that Jim Dolley has been to a number of times

00:15:46.660 | when he was a tour guide on the train that we took up there.

00:15:51.460 | And the ability to be wherever you want,

00:15:54.260 | whenever you want is amazing.

00:15:56.660 | Now our kids are back in high school,

00:15:57.940 | so we've lost some of that.

00:16:00.100 | My older son is, my younger son is in eighth grade,

00:16:03.020 | so he'll be in high school next year.

00:16:05.540 | You gain other people's envy, right?

00:16:07.740 | And that's not such a good thing, you know,

00:16:09.420 | when someone says, "Must be nice."

00:16:12.020 | Not a compliment.

00:16:13.580 | (audience laughing)

00:16:16.580 | I don't know if this will give gold watches.

00:16:17.900 | I like my Garmin, so I'm good with this.

00:16:20.980 | But to summarize this first part of our two-part talk,

00:16:25.100 | figure out the money part,

00:16:26.100 | make sure you've got enough money.

00:16:27.540 | Have a withdrawal strategy

00:16:29.260 | that is based upon your asset location.

00:16:32.180 | Think about tax optimization,

00:16:33.860 | because that is a huge component

00:16:35.940 | of the most optimal withdrawal strategy.

00:16:39.180 | Make sure you've got healthcare figured out.

00:16:41.540 | It's expensive.

00:16:43.220 | I'm sorry.

00:16:44.060 | Not really my fault, but I was part of that.

00:16:47.660 | Make sure you're okay mentally, physically, psychologically,

00:16:50.060 | without working a job.

00:16:51.940 | That can be something that, well, people fail,

00:16:56.100 | they fail retirement

00:16:57.180 | because they don't think about that beforehand,

00:16:59.700 | and then they just don't know what to do

00:17:01.660 | with their newfound free time.

00:17:03.940 | So have plans for the free time.

00:17:05.860 | We went to Peru, the four of us, that's my family there,

00:17:09.660 | dune buggy riding at a place called Huacachina,

00:17:12.820 | which is a desert oasis just outside of Ica, Peru.

00:17:16.820 | Of course, we went to Machu Picchu

00:17:17.780 | and a bunch of other places.

00:17:19.180 | Awesome time.

00:17:20.020 | As you can tell, I love my freedom.

00:17:23.580 | I am bragging a little bit, not gonna lie.

00:17:25.460 | It's been good.

00:17:27.020 | Optimal timing.

00:17:27.980 | Timing for us was based upon a couple of things.

00:17:32.180 | My kid's age, also my replacement,

00:17:35.220 | he finished residency at the end of June,

00:17:38.380 | and wanted to start work in August,

00:17:41.020 | so I worked until about mid-August,

00:17:42.620 | so I was able to help train him in.

00:17:45.140 | I also timed the year to the time

00:17:48.540 | where he would be able to join us,

00:17:50.260 | because he actually interviewed two and a half years

00:17:52.380 | before he was done with his anesthesia residency,

00:17:55.260 | so I knew long in advance when I'd be retiring.

00:17:59.860 | Another factor might be the time of year.

00:18:02.140 | You might wanna make sure you have enough time

00:18:03.500 | to max out a 401(k) or a 403(b),

00:18:06.580 | enough time to max out a 457(b), HSA,

00:18:09.460 | whatever it might be,

00:18:10.700 | and so that might mean working into March, April, May, June.

00:18:14.140 | Maybe you want to retire

00:18:15.780 | right when summer vacation starts if you have children.

00:18:19.140 | You obviously are going to confer with your spouse,

00:18:21.620 | and it may not make a ton of sense

00:18:23.020 | to not work if your spouse is working,

00:18:26.020 | so lots to think about there.

00:18:29.220 | So that's part one.

00:18:30.220 | We'll jump to part two.

00:18:32.940 | Still working on this one,

00:18:34.460 | but creating a meaningful life after retirement.

00:18:37.980 | That is my mother and father.

00:18:40.060 | My dad, 53 years ago,

00:18:43.380 | enlisted in the Army right out of dental school

00:18:45.860 | because he knew that he might have a little more control

00:18:49.500 | over what happens to him in Vietnam

00:18:52.540 | if he is going as a volunteer rather than as a draftee,

00:18:57.540 | and he went over for a tour of duty in a med-dent unit,

00:19:00.740 | was there nearly a year,

00:19:02.500 | and obviously, Vietnam has changed a lot

00:19:05.020 | in the last 50 years,

00:19:06.540 | and it's become a place that tourists go,

00:19:09.060 | and my dad really wanted to return

00:19:12.500 | and see what that was looking like.

00:19:15.420 | It would be meaningful for him,

00:19:17.580 | and we actually had plans to go in 2020.

00:19:21.380 | We didn't go in 2020,

00:19:23.380 | but last year, I saw a really good airfare,

00:19:25.340 | and I sent it to him,

00:19:26.180 | and I said, "You should go.

00:19:27.700 | "It's like 800 bucks round trip,"

00:19:29.980 | and he said, "Oh, can you come with?"

00:19:32.180 | And I said, "Well, no, we got the kids in school.

00:19:33.940 | "We can't just, you hop over to Vietnam

00:19:35.780 | "for two or three weeks."

00:19:37.220 | They said, "No, can you go?"

00:19:39.940 | "Oh, I never thought about traveling without my family,

00:19:43.660 | "but you are my family, aren't you?

00:19:44.780 | "Okay."

00:19:45.700 | So we went to Vietnam,

00:19:46.660 | traveled around for two, two and a half weeks,

00:19:49.540 | and it was wonderful,

00:19:50.940 | and it was meaningful for him, for me,

00:19:53.300 | to be able to spend that time with them,

00:19:55.220 | and yeah, so that's just one of those things,

00:19:59.740 | that time freedom, the location independence,

00:20:02.580 | an understanding wife who lets you go

00:20:04.260 | to one of her dream spots without her, all very key.

00:20:08.020 | This is a poem.

00:20:10.140 | I hope you can see it.

00:20:11.380 | It's a portion of a poem,

00:20:13.580 | and I found this through a letter from T. Boone Pickens,

00:20:18.580 | a billionaire who passed away fairly recently,

00:20:22.220 | and he shared this in a letter that is online

00:20:27.220 | at, I think it's Oklahoma State.

00:20:29.300 | He was a big benefactor to them,

00:20:31.860 | and I won't read the whole thing

00:20:33.060 | 'cause I get choked up when I do,

00:20:34.940 | but hopefully you can see it.

00:20:36.380 | Go ahead and read it.

00:20:40.140 | But the gist is that while you're here,

00:20:46.460 | you make an impact, you affect people.

00:20:49.420 | He says, "Put your hand in the water.

00:20:52.140 | "When you're gone, pull the hand out of the water.

00:20:54.100 | "What's left is what's left,

00:20:55.860 | "and what's left is still water," right?

00:20:58.700 | So I take away that you should make a splash

00:21:03.700 | while you can, impact people while you're here,

00:21:08.100 | and realize that when you're gone,

00:21:10.020 | life goes on without you.

00:21:11.460 | Sticking with a bit of a somber tone,

00:21:15.140 | part of our kids' four years

00:21:16.820 | of what we called world schooling was education,

00:21:21.060 | and you can't really see them in the lower right,

00:21:24.740 | and that's my wife and two kids.

00:21:26.540 | I'm taking the picture,

00:21:28.220 | but this is the Plaschow concentration camp.

00:21:31.260 | We also visited Auschwitz, the Anne Frank House,

00:21:41.180 | Holocaust Museum in D.C.

00:21:45.060 | to help just understand the past,

00:21:50.620 | and that's what meaning is, right?

00:21:51.660 | It's understanding the past about others,

00:21:54.940 | but also about yourself.

00:21:56.180 | You know, it's defined by what you've done

00:21:59.140 | and where you've been,

00:22:00.580 | and purpose is more about who you are

00:22:04.700 | and what you're doing now,

00:22:06.260 | and what your plans are for the future,

00:22:08.460 | and of course, what matters?

00:22:10.020 | Well, you know, it's up to you.

00:22:11.780 | You get to define that.

00:22:13.020 | You know, one thing that I've found

00:22:16.860 | that's really helpful in retirement

00:22:18.940 | is to focus a bit on self-improvement,

00:22:21.900 | and when I say that, it conjures up images,

00:22:25.380 | I think of like self-help books and gurus

00:22:28.660 | and Tony Robbins up here with, you know,

00:22:31.340 | seven feet tall and the white teeth,

00:22:32.900 | but I don't think you need any of that.

00:22:35.020 | I think to me, self-improvement is just focusing

00:22:39.780 | on your physical health, your mental health.

00:22:42.580 | I did a tough mudder race,

00:22:45.700 | dislocated my shoulder three times.

00:22:47.540 | By the end, it was just kind of dragging behind me,

00:22:50.820 | so that was more like self-injury and self-harm,

00:22:53.020 | but not intentional.

00:22:55.340 | But now I'm training for a marathon.

00:22:56.860 | I'll be running the Twin Cities next Sunday,

00:22:59.980 | so pray for cool weather for me and clouds.

00:23:03.820 | And my roommate here, Jordan, can attest, Jordan Grumet,

00:23:09.620 | he's the one that taught me about meaning and purpose.

00:23:11.900 | I meant to say that on the last slide,

00:23:13.300 | but I had a hard time getting through it.

00:23:15.700 | You know, he can attest to the fact

00:23:17.060 | that I woke up and did my push-ups and sit-ups and squats

00:23:19.660 | and do a lingo Spanish lesson.

00:23:21.740 | It's something I do every day.

00:23:23.180 | I consider that to be self-improvement.

00:23:25.300 | Strength in relationships, all right?

00:23:29.660 | I went to that Gophers game last weekend,

00:23:33.340 | Blue Hawks, with a med school classmate.

00:23:35.940 | Went to a Twins game the other day with a college friend.

00:23:39.740 | Gonna see a bunch of high school friends tonight.

00:23:42.180 | Relationships are very important,

00:23:44.700 | and there are reasons beyond just having a good time.

00:23:49.700 | The American Heart Association published a study

00:23:52.580 | showing that if you suffer from social isolation,

00:23:56.700 | if you are alone, you have a 28% risk

00:24:00.220 | of cardiovascular disease, 32% increased risk of a stroke.

00:24:05.220 | And, you know, it maybe doesn't impact your lungs as much,

00:24:09.820 | but in some ways, it's almost as bad as smoking, all right?

00:24:13.500 | So you want to have friends.

00:24:14.580 | You want to have people you can confide in

00:24:17.100 | that you trust, that trust you, that you're close to.

00:24:20.980 | The Harvard Study of Adult Development,

00:24:23.100 | it's been going on for 85 plus years.

00:24:26.540 | They've found that relationships

00:24:28.500 | are the most important factor for happiness.

00:24:31.940 | It's not money.

00:24:33.820 | So we're here to talk, you know, primarily about money,

00:24:36.380 | but it's the people that you know, that know you,

00:24:39.340 | and the relationships you have with them

00:24:41.180 | that are really the ultimate key

00:24:43.280 | to living longer, being happier,

00:24:46.180 | and it's important to cultivate those relationships

00:24:49.220 | and maintain them.

00:24:51.020 | So finding meaning in retirement,

00:24:53.980 | it's about how you spend your time too, right?

00:24:56.260 | When I moved to Brainerd,

00:24:58.180 | I was asked to join a curling club

00:25:00.100 | and I had seen it in the Olympics,

00:25:02.420 | but I had never done it before,

00:25:03.580 | but I said, sure, that sounds like fun

00:25:05.260 | because that's how I'm going to meet people.

00:25:07.140 | I'll be part of a different community.

00:25:09.100 | You know, like the Bogleheads here, this is a community.

00:25:11.700 | Right?

00:25:12.540 | It's something that I can do with my kids.

00:25:14.740 | There they are, once again,

00:25:16.380 | they are prominently featured today.

00:25:19.900 | And again, you're picking up new skills, new achievements.

00:25:22.460 | Volunteering is a great way to find purpose in retirement.

00:25:26.900 | And we're getting, yeah, we're getting towards the end here.

00:25:31.900 | Also understand that there will be

00:25:33.580 | questions that go unanswered, right?

00:25:36.780 | Meaning is up to you to define.

00:25:41.780 | Choosing your purpose, it's something that,

00:25:44.640 | well, you know, you make plans and God laughs, right?

00:25:47.020 | So I try not to make plans more than about

00:25:50.580 | three to five years in advance.

00:25:52.300 | And those are just tentative plans

00:25:55.060 | because I know that the circumstances will change.

00:25:58.360 | How I want to live my life may change.

00:26:02.220 | You don't know how much time you're going to have.

00:26:05.060 | And so again, referring back to that poem,

00:26:08.180 | make a splash while you have that opportunity.

00:26:12.200 | And you know, you may choose to work again

00:26:15.180 | when you retire at 43 or 47, you know?

00:26:18.860 | I mean, maybe there's a third act.

00:26:20.660 | I don't know for myself.

00:26:22.380 | And if you are contemplating retirement,

00:26:24.940 | understand that it may be temporary.

00:26:27.460 | I don't know yet what it will look like

00:26:30.000 | to have an empty nest.

00:26:31.060 | On one hand, I am excited for the return of, you know,

00:26:36.060 | freedom and freedom to be where we want to be

00:26:38.500 | when we want to be there.

00:26:40.300 | But on the other hand, I know I will miss the kids

00:26:44.340 | and it'll be an interesting transition

00:26:46.860 | that I can try to predict, but won't know.

00:26:49.980 | So that is what I had for you today.

00:26:52.920 | Thank you all for your attention.

00:26:54.780 | And I've got a question.

00:26:57.020 | Wow, that was quick.

00:26:57.900 | (audience applauding)

00:27:01.300 | Ah, all right.

00:27:03.660 | Even better than a question,

00:27:05.860 | it is a definition of happiness.

00:27:08.540 | Thank you.

00:27:09.380 | Oh, Lady Geek, wonderful.

00:27:12.720 | Good to meet you.

00:27:13.780 | Sue.

00:27:14.620 | All right.

00:27:15.440 | Happiness is the meaning and purpose of life

00:27:18.980 | is to give life purpose and meaning.

00:27:22.540 | That's a head spinner, but I like it.

00:27:25.060 | Thank you, Lady Geek.

00:27:26.100 | I think we don't have any other questions.

00:27:30.620 | Am I correct, right?

00:27:31.900 | Question collectors?

00:27:33.900 | Okay, let's give Leif a great big round of applause.

00:27:36.900 | (audience applauding)

00:27:38.900 | Thank you.

00:27:39.740 | Thank you, thank you.

00:27:40.580 | Thank you so much.

00:27:41.400 | Thank you, Jim.

00:27:42.240 | Thank you.

00:27:43.080 | [BLANK_AUDIO]

Bogleheads University 501 2024 The Decision to Retire & Creating a Meaningful Life After Retirement

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