Bogleheads® Conference 2024 Estate Planning-What Every Boglehead Needs to Know w/ Jennifer Rozelle

00:00:00.000 | [APPLAUSE]

00:00:05.500 | Everyone needs to put their hand up like this

00:00:08.100 | and pat themselves on the back.

00:00:11.660 | Because you guys just showed up at 8 AM on a Sunday

00:00:17.780 | to watch a lawyer speak without a slide deck also.

00:00:23.700 | So Mike, thank you for that introduction.

00:00:27.660 | Everything out there says Jennifer Rosell.

00:00:30.260 | I go by Jenny.

00:00:31.260 | You'll learn that I'm a pretty informal person.

00:00:34.980 | And y'all just have to bear with me without my slideshow.

00:00:40.180 | So like Mike said, I am an owner and attorney

00:00:42.780 | at Indiana State and Elder Law.

00:00:44.060 | Do I have any Indiana folks in the room?

00:00:47.900 | Oh, like one, two?

00:00:51.060 | We're so close, guys.

00:00:53.180 | Well, it's nice to see some Hoosiers in the audience.

00:00:56.740 | So as the firm name signals, all I do is estate and elder law.

00:01:03.620 | So this is what I live and breathe every single day.

00:01:09.220 | Also, as Mike mentioned, if you're a podcast person,

00:01:13.060 | I think podcasts are kind of a love-hate thing.

00:01:15.620 | You either love them, or you're like,

00:01:17.220 | I don't even know how to listen to them.

00:01:20.380 | Please feel free to check out my podcast.

00:01:22.220 | It's Legal Tea.

00:01:23.500 | And I do a ton of different content,

00:01:26.740 | but my favorite ones are celebrity estate planning.

00:01:29.860 | They are notoriously terrible at estate planning.

00:01:33.220 | So if you kind of like that sort of stuff,

00:01:35.020 | I think you'll enjoy it.

00:01:37.100 | So when I was preparing for this presentation,

00:01:41.580 | I really wanted to start with, what

00:01:45.140 | is that term estate planning even mean?

00:01:49.140 | Because I think that estate planning

00:01:52.620 | is kind of thrown around by different professionals,

00:01:56.260 | not wrongly.

00:01:58.020 | But what I mean by that is there's

00:02:00.700 | plenty of attorneys that do estate planning.

00:02:03.620 | Financial advisors will state that they do estate planning.

00:02:07.620 | Tax professionals will state that they do estate planning.

00:02:11.260 | My session today is from the lawyer's perspective.

00:02:15.220 | All of us do estate planning, because what estate planning is

00:02:19.820 | is really managing your assets from a place of what

00:02:24.820 | your goals are, kind of join that with your family

00:02:30.100 | structure, and what your age is, the types of assets.

00:02:34.980 | So all of these professionals do estate planning.

00:02:38.140 | But this session today, like my joke at the beginning,

00:02:41.780 | is from the lawyer's perspective,

00:02:43.420 | which is really about the documents that support us

00:02:48.580 | in the event of incapacity or in the event of we pass away.

00:02:54.180 | So not only did you guys show up to hear a lawyer talk

00:02:56.780 | about estate planning, but now it's 8 AM lawyer

00:03:00.620 | and talking about incapacity and death.

00:03:02.580 | So OK, so really getting to the meat and potatoes

00:03:08.740 | of this presentation.

00:03:09.660 | So when I think of that term, estate planning,

00:03:14.460 | there are four themes or things as part of estate planning

00:03:21.540 | that I consider the core four.

00:03:24.420 | And I'm going to go through each one of them

00:03:27.020 | kind of thoroughly and strategically.

00:03:30.380 | So oh, you're playing with my heart, tech people.

00:03:35.100 | I'm going to go through each one.

00:03:39.940 | So you guys should look at these core four

00:03:42.980 | as like really the basic ground level estate plan.

00:03:47.700 | So if you have embarked on an estate plan,

00:03:50.180 | these are kind of the four that are like your very basic plan.

00:03:55.820 | But if you have not embarked on any estate planning,

00:03:58.980 | these are going to be the kind of the starter

00:04:00.940 | package, so to speak.

00:04:03.620 | So first and foremost is advanced directives.

00:04:08.380 | And I'm going to say kind of slash living will declaration.

00:04:12.820 | So these kinds of documents are specifically

00:04:18.500 | for health care decisions.

00:04:22.140 | And more specifically, when we start talking about like end

00:04:25.900 | of life decisions, really fun things to talk about, I know.

00:04:30.180 | Welcome to my life.

00:04:31.020 | I talk about them every single day.

00:04:34.900 | These documents are really important

00:04:38.220 | because this is what gives you guys the power

00:04:40.660 | to express what your wishes are as it relates to health care

00:04:44.540 | decisions.

00:04:46.700 | Anyone in the room--

00:04:47.740 | I'm sure a lot of people in the room--

00:04:49.500 | do you guys remember the name Terri Schiavo?

00:04:53.300 | Yes.

00:04:54.300 | If you don't, I'll give you the quick crash course.

00:04:56.500 | There was a young lady down in Florida.

00:04:58.900 | I think it was in maybe late '90s.

00:05:01.500 | She was in a persistent vegetative state.

00:05:03.940 | Long story short, her husband and her parents

00:05:07.620 | went to like World War III over whether to keep her feeding

00:05:12.820 | tube in.

00:05:14.860 | And what I always tell people is we

00:05:18.380 | got the opinion of everyone.

00:05:21.620 | We got the opinion of politicians.

00:05:24.620 | We got the opinion of courts.

00:05:26.980 | We surely got the opinion from Nancy Grace.

00:05:30.680 | We got a lot of people's opinion.

00:05:33.300 | But whose opinion was the most important one?

00:05:37.780 | Hers, Terri's.

00:05:39.540 | And that's the one we were missing.

00:05:41.980 | And so that case really shined a bright light

00:05:46.340 | on this set of documents I'm talking about,

00:05:49.740 | the Living Will Declaration and advanced directives,

00:05:53.460 | because that's what she was missing.

00:05:55.820 | So when you think of estate planning,

00:05:57.580 | I think a lot of people's focus goes really

00:05:59.820 | to what happens when I pass away, or financial,

00:06:04.020 | or more legally focused.

00:06:06.180 | But health care decision making is equally as important

00:06:09.940 | when you embark on this process.

00:06:12.460 | So that's the first set, advanced directives slash

00:06:15.740 | Living Will Declaration.

00:06:17.660 | Second set is a medical power of attorney or a health care

00:06:22.940 | representative.

00:06:26.260 | I'm trying to keep things very high level and more general,

00:06:31.340 | because as Mike mentioned, I am only in Indiana.

00:06:35.940 | Different states call these documents

00:06:38.380 | different things.

00:06:39.860 | And so you may see this document called Appointment of Health

00:06:42.540 | Care Representative.

00:06:43.480 | That's what my state of Indiana calls it.

00:06:46.100 | But you may see health care power of attorney

00:06:48.100 | or medical power of attorney.

00:06:49.340 | So any of these, it just depends on what your state calls it.

00:06:53.060 | But they do effectively the same thing.

00:06:56.140 | So documents number two, or like the second theme of documents,

00:07:00.380 | is this health care power of attorney.

00:07:02.860 | So this is the document that states, if I am unable to--

00:07:09.540 | man, I thought that was my presentation again.

00:07:12.860 | If I'm unable to make health care decisions,

00:07:16.820 | who do I trust to make those for me?

00:07:20.180 | So that's the document that I state.

00:07:22.740 | Maybe it's my spouse, or maybe it's my children.

00:07:26.140 | And just a little insider secret,

00:07:27.620 | it doesn't have to be your oldest child.

00:07:30.620 | I hear that all the time.

00:07:32.340 | It doesn't even have to be the child that

00:07:33.940 | lives down the street.

00:07:36.300 | I wish I could go on in more detail about this.

00:07:39.380 | But there's a set of factors that you should weigh when

00:07:41.940 | you pick people in all of these roles.

00:07:45.380 | So yeah, it doesn't have to be the oldest child.

00:07:47.660 | But the primary purpose of this document

00:07:50.660 | is to put someone in a position to make your health care

00:07:54.500 | decisions for you if you're unable to do so.

00:07:58.820 | Number three is a financial power of attorney.

00:08:04.060 | So financial power of attorneys are specifically

00:08:07.220 | for people when they need to put someone in a position

00:08:13.100 | to help them with more financial and legal affairs.

00:08:17.740 | So if you think about all these documents, a lot of the times

00:08:22.740 | these are not usually kicking in until something has happened,

00:08:27.060 | whether it's incapacity, whether it's

00:08:29.980 | death, which will be the documents that we

00:08:31.820 | talk about later.

00:08:33.980 | But most of the time, the financial power of attorney

00:08:36.660 | is a document that kicks in.

00:08:38.500 | I mostly see it in my practice when people are--

00:08:42.660 | they're dealing with some sort of cognitive impairment.

00:08:45.380 | So think dementia, Alzheimer's, that sort of thing.

00:08:49.460 | I always tell people, just because we

00:08:51.260 | are in that yucky situation doesn't

00:08:55.340 | mean the bills stop coming.

00:08:57.620 | It doesn't mean that we get a pass on filing taxes.

00:09:01.540 | And that's what the power of attorney's responsibility is,

00:09:04.700 | is to keep your financial affairs, financial management

00:09:09.100 | afloat and under control.

00:09:12.820 | As I talked about with Christine in her book, you will--

00:09:16.900 | and I could go on for hours about this too,

00:09:19.580 | but there are many types of financial power of attorneys

00:09:24.460 | for varying different situations.

00:09:27.580 | So sometimes you'll see power of attorneys that really--

00:09:31.020 | oh.

00:09:31.520 | OK, if I stand on one leg, maybe it'll pop up.

00:09:42.540 | There's many different types of power of attorneys.

00:09:44.660 | So you may see them limit the scope of the powers.

00:09:48.380 | So there's some that say, hey, I'm

00:09:50.100 | only going to give you the power to do this one thing.

00:09:53.300 | But you may see different power of attorneys

00:09:55.060 | that give someone much more--

00:09:58.260 | or all powers, really.

00:10:00.800 | There's also power of attorneys that

00:10:02.300 | limit the scope on when they become effective.

00:10:04.820 | So just be very mindful as to when you do a power of attorney,

00:10:10.220 | be very mindful that you're choosing

00:10:12.060 | the type that is appropriate for your situation.

00:10:16.820 | The last one, number four in my core four,

00:10:19.540 | is a last will and testament.

00:10:22.180 | So that's probably the most well-known document

00:10:26.040 | in my world.

00:10:29.020 | I always tell people that a last will and testament,

00:10:31.780 | it doesn't mean diddly squat until we pass away.

00:10:36.300 | So that's when that document becomes effective.

00:10:39.060 | And it states-- it primarily does two things.

00:10:42.980 | You'll see wills be five pages.

00:10:47.020 | You'll see wills be 50 pages.

00:10:49.260 | And even in the 50-page wills, they're still really kind

00:10:53.380 | of doing two things at its core.

00:10:56.100 | So the first thing a will does is it states,

00:10:59.220 | who's in charge after I pass away?

00:11:02.820 | So who is the ringleader of the circus?

00:11:05.780 | Secondly, it states who gets my stuff, who gets my assets,

00:11:11.420 | in what way?

00:11:13.980 | So when I say in what way, what I'm really talking about

00:11:16.420 | is in terms of maybe we're putting parameters

00:11:20.060 | around their inheritance, like staggered distributions based

00:11:23.900 | on age or something like that.

00:11:26.540 | But wills, they do those two things and two things only.

00:11:31.740 | And from kind of a 50,000-foot overview,

00:11:35.980 | those four that I just talked about are the most basic level.

00:11:43.020 | And sometimes those four are completely sufficient.

00:11:47.100 | And sometimes you don't need any more.

00:11:50.260 | But at the end of the day, those are kind of the basic documents

00:11:54.020 | at play.

00:11:56.020 | One of the biggest mistakes I see people make all the time

00:11:58.940 | is really dealing with how assets are owned.

00:12:03.700 | And generally speaking, there's those three asset ownership

00:12:07.700 | or ways to set assets up.

00:12:10.900 | So that first one, individually owned assets.

00:12:14.140 | So when I say individually owned assets,

00:12:17.740 | it's quite literally what that is meaning.

00:12:20.820 | It is one person's name on that asset

00:12:24.300 | and no beneficiaries attached.

00:12:27.060 | That is usually going to be the only type of asset that

00:12:30.980 | is controlled by a last will and testament.

00:12:34.860 | A lot of people don't realize that.

00:12:36.320 | A lot of people think that wills just

00:12:38.260 | throw on their superhero cape when we pass away

00:12:40.360 | and take care of everything.

00:12:42.300 | I wish it was that easy.

00:12:43.340 | We should know that things aren't that easy.

00:12:46.940 | So that is the only kind of category

00:12:49.460 | of an asset that's going to be controlled by a will.

00:12:53.860 | And then that third bullet under that individually owned asset

00:12:57.140 | category, we're going to talk about probate in my next slide

00:13:01.180 | and what it is.

00:13:03.780 | But that's usually going to be the only category that's

00:13:06.140 | going to force us to kind of entertain

00:13:08.780 | whether probate is going to be a part of our life

00:13:13.460 | or part of our estate administration.

00:13:16.420 | Every state has a different threshold

00:13:19.780 | as to whether we're going to have to go through probate.

00:13:23.680 | So what I mean by that is if I use Indiana, for example,

00:13:27.180 | for the two people in here that live in my state,

00:13:31.780 | Indiana, for example, our threshold is 100,000.

00:13:36.780 | So what that means and what I'm talking about

00:13:39.620 | is that if the assets that fit that category of one person's

00:13:44.140 | name on the asset with no beneficiaries attached

00:13:47.340 | exceed 100,000, we are going through the probate process.

00:13:51.900 | Whether we have a will or not, that's

00:13:53.400 | another big misconception.

00:13:55.000 | So that may be something to write down

00:13:57.280 | is what is my state's probate threshold?

00:13:59.820 | Because every state's different.

00:14:02.520 | Second category is beneficiary designated assets.

00:14:05.400 | So this is just like what it states.

00:14:08.120 | Think of like retirement accounts, life insurance

00:14:10.520 | policies.

00:14:11.680 | A lot of times those--

00:14:13.000 | a lot of times, not all--

00:14:15.880 | those kind of assets have a beneficiary designated on them.

00:14:19.680 | So when we pass away, that asset is

00:14:22.140 | going to go to the designated beneficiary.

00:14:25.640 | I have a slide towards the end of my presentation

00:14:27.720 | that I'm probably not going to get to,

00:14:29.680 | since we've got a little bit of a late start.

00:14:32.400 | But it was really about kind of real life cautionary tales

00:14:37.840 | that I've worked on.

00:14:39.620 | And this is one of them, where people don't realize

00:14:42.360 | that if there's a conflict between a beneficiary

00:14:47.040 | designation on an asset and a will,

00:14:49.360 | the beneficiary designation is going to win.

00:14:52.640 | So I am just wrapping up a case right now

00:14:54.960 | where a gentleman passed away, and he left his ex-spouse

00:15:00.000 | on his IRA and life insurance.

00:15:03.160 | His daughter wasn't happy about that, as she should.

00:15:08.040 | And so it's turned into a very messy administration,

00:15:14.080 | because you have to consider the fact that maybe he

00:15:17.560 | intended to do that.

00:15:18.720 | He's passed away now.

00:15:20.280 | We can't just make things up.

00:15:21.760 | We don't think he probably wanted that to happen,

00:15:24.340 | but that's assuming.

00:15:25.920 | So beneficiary designated assets, those assets at death

00:15:30.320 | go to whoever the beneficiaries listed are.

00:15:33.760 | They're not controlled by your will.

00:15:37.140 | Last type of asset type is jointly owned assets.

00:15:40.640 | So what I mean by this is two or more people

00:15:44.000 | on an asset, so you think of a joint bank

00:15:48.040 | account, for example.

00:15:49.040 | Let's use a joint bank account as an example.

00:15:54.840 | If I own-- me and my husband are both on a bank account.

00:15:59.800 | At my death, that is going to go to my husband.

00:16:03.440 | It's not going through the will.

00:16:05.120 | It is just merely as a product of the type of asset ownership.

00:16:11.000 | It's joint.

00:16:13.680 | My last little bullet there, you have to be very--

00:16:17.560 | what's the word--

00:16:19.120 | hypersensitive of property when it comes to joint ownership.

00:16:24.360 | When I say property, what I mean is like houses, farmland,

00:16:29.720 | because I'm from Indiana.

00:16:30.720 | Property ownership is a little funky.

00:16:37.520 | So just know from this bullet if it's

00:16:42.120 | like joint ownership on a house, don't

00:16:45.120 | assume it's going to automatically

00:16:46.880 | go to that joint owner.

00:16:48.040 | And they have a whole class in law school

00:16:50.700 | on property ownership.

00:16:51.960 | So it just can be tricky, and you

00:16:54.200 | need to be very mindful of it.

00:16:57.360 | OK, probate.

00:17:00.600 | That is a word that cracks me up,

00:17:03.760 | because I will meet with prospects or clients

00:17:06.000 | in my office, and I'll ask them about what their goals are,

00:17:10.680 | what they're trying to accomplish.

00:17:12.480 | And a lot of times, they'll say, I want to avoid probate.

00:17:17.360 | And I'll say, OK, what do you think probate is?

00:17:21.960 | They're like, well, my great aunt

00:17:24.760 | told me that I need to avoid it.

00:17:27.440 | I'm like, OK.

00:17:30.560 | So I made a slide specifically about probate

00:17:33.560 | to kind of give you good factual information on what

00:17:38.680 | this word even means.

00:17:40.560 | So probate is a process that happens sometimes

00:17:44.680 | when we pass away.

00:17:46.240 | And the sometimes piece is because of that last slide.

00:17:49.560 | It depends on the type of assets when we pass away.

00:17:53.400 | And if there are assets in that individually owned category

00:17:56.960 | with no beneficiaries attached, like I said,

00:17:59.720 | whether we have a will or not, sometimes

00:18:02.120 | they're going through this probate process.

00:18:03.920 | It is a court process.

00:18:06.200 | And from there, I think there's a lot of professionals

00:18:10.480 | that will try just to scare the bejesus out of you

00:18:13.960 | on what this process is.

00:18:16.680 | And I come from a place of always really not

00:18:20.720 | doing the whole fear tactic thing,

00:18:22.320 | but more of an educational side.

00:18:24.880 | And when I say non-negotiables about probate,

00:18:28.160 | what I'm talking about on this slide

00:18:29.760 | is that these are the three things that you have to decide

00:18:34.600 | really whether you care about these three things.

00:18:39.440 | And if you don't, then maybe probate's just a formality

00:18:44.640 | sometimes when we pass away.

00:18:47.200 | So hitting on the should I be scared or concerned first.

00:18:51.960 | Should I be scared or concerned?

00:18:54.080 | My favorite lawyer answer in the entire world is it depends.

00:18:59.600 | It depends primarily on two things,

00:19:02.920 | on what you're trying to accomplish,

00:19:06.800 | as well as your state.

00:19:09.520 | And I hate to be so kind of general about it,

00:19:13.240 | but some states' probate process is a nightmare.

00:19:18.920 | Some states' probate process isn't so bad.

00:19:23.600 | And so like, for example, California,

00:19:26.800 | if there's any California folks in the room,

00:19:28.920 | they have a pretty brutal probate process.

00:19:32.280 | I just saw you raise your hand, and you're like, yep.

00:19:34.960 | They have a pretty brutal probate process.

00:19:36.760 | So it is very common to cite that as a reason when someone

00:19:41.640 | embarks on an estate planning process

00:19:43.200 | is to avoid that probate process.

00:19:46.280 | Indiana's not that bad.

00:19:47.880 | I do probate all the time, and I don't even

00:19:49.520 | set foot in the courthouse.

00:19:50.640 | Everything's electronically filed.

00:19:52.760 | I don't handle any contested cases.

00:19:54.760 | So my state's not too bad.

00:19:57.600 | But these non-negotiables, just to hit on them,

00:20:00.480 | regardless of your state, when I say time, public record,

00:20:04.840 | and cost, those are the things that

00:20:07.440 | are going to occur with probate regardless of your state.

00:20:12.360 | When I say time, what I mean by that is specifically,

00:20:15.560 | it's not going to happen overnight.

00:20:18.480 | I always set the expectation for my clients in Indiana,

00:20:21.840 | it's going to minimally take about six months.

00:20:25.000 | But realistically, it's probably going to take about a year.

00:20:28.720 | And there's just parts of the process

00:20:30.360 | that I just can't speed up.

00:20:32.600 | It is like statutorily, like I have

00:20:34.800 | to sit and twiddle my thumbs for three months for creditors

00:20:39.640 | to make claims on the estate, whether someone

00:20:42.040 | has creditors or not.

00:20:43.040 | So there's just part of the process I just can't speed up.

00:20:46.200 | So that's time.

00:20:47.600 | Public record, if you don't know this,

00:20:50.360 | anytime you're going to the courthouse,

00:20:53.120 | it's part of public record.

00:20:55.520 | So I have some clients that are like, if my nosy neighbor

00:20:59.680 | Nancy finds out what's going through my estate,

00:21:03.160 | I would just roll over in my grave.

00:21:06.080 | Sorry if there's any Nancys in the room.

00:21:09.440 | So public record sometimes is a concern for people.

00:21:12.040 | I always say, a lot of people don't

00:21:13.960 | know where to go to look, to look up this kind of stuff.

00:21:16.800 | So I don't give that too much thought.

00:21:19.680 | Lastly is cost.

00:21:21.600 | When I say this, I typically kind of make--

00:21:25.800 | I'm a lawyer, yes.

00:21:27.080 | But I make lawyer jokes all the time, because most of them

00:21:29.800 | are actually warranted.

00:21:32.440 | From a cost standpoint, it makes me laugh,

00:21:35.080 | because a lot of attorneys will say, oh, the probate cost.

00:21:38.440 | Oh, the probate cost.

00:21:39.720 | It's mostly the legal fees.

00:21:43.440 | Yeah, sure, there's some filing fees with the county,

00:21:48.400 | and maybe some publication fees for the newspaper.

00:21:52.120 | Because we have to-- at least in Indiana,

00:21:53.840 | we have to publish the estate in a newspaper.

00:21:56.800 | I swear that we're the only ones that

00:21:58.360 | are keeping newspapers afloat.

00:22:00.520 | So if there's anyone that works in a newspaper in the room,

00:22:03.480 | you could verify that for me.

00:22:05.480 | But cost, sometimes probate can be costly

00:22:09.680 | from a legal fees standpoint.

00:22:11.640 | It just depends on the complexity of the estate,

00:22:14.520 | what's going on.

00:22:15.760 | There's kind of two different schools of thought,

00:22:17.800 | from a cost perspective.

00:22:18.840 | Sometimes attorneys will charge hourly, which is typical.

00:22:22.280 | The other type of way to charge in probate land

00:22:25.320 | is through a percentage.

00:22:26.680 | So a percentage of the estate is their legal fee.

00:22:31.720 | I always say you have to sprinkle a dose

00:22:33.640 | of reasonableness on there.

00:22:35.720 | I think sometimes lawyers forget to sprinkle

00:22:37.720 | that reasonableness on there.

00:22:38.960 | But nonetheless, those are the three non-negotiables.

00:22:43.360 | Should you be scared or concerned?

00:22:47.080 | You need to work with someone in your state, someone like me

00:22:51.560 | that does a state as their normal field,

00:22:54.840 | and just kind of prompt them on this conversation

00:22:58.000 | and gather whether your state has a complex and annoying

00:23:02.960 | probate process.

00:23:03.680 | So how am I doing on time?

00:23:08.520 | OK.

00:23:11.280 | A lot of times people will entertain trust planning

00:23:16.000 | as a part of an estate plan.

00:23:19.520 | Do all people need trust?

00:23:21.280 | No.

00:23:22.280 | Do a lot of people need trust?

00:23:24.040 | Yes.

00:23:25.840 | If you are working with an attorney that just shells out

00:23:28.680 | trust day after day, maybe not the attorney to work with.

00:23:32.720 | It just really depends on the goals

00:23:36.240 | that the client's trying to accomplish.

00:23:39.080 | It really depends on the family dynamics and family setup.

00:23:42.960 | It depends on the types of asset.

00:23:45.600 | But at the end of the day, a lot of people

00:23:47.720 | do choose to do trust planning as part of their estate plan.

00:23:51.480 | And I'd be doing you guys a disservice

00:23:53.440 | if I didn't at least kind of give you

00:23:55.520 | a little bit of the 411 on trust planning.

00:23:59.560 | At its core, there are so many types of trust, guys.

00:24:05.560 | Lots of them.

00:24:08.840 | And us lawyers have these like weird nicknames for them.

00:24:12.000 | It's kind of-- I don't know.

00:24:13.160 | It's like job security or something.

00:24:14.720 | Crack, crut, eyelet.

00:24:17.120 | It's like a whole weird different language.

00:24:20.040 | But of all those types of trust, really at the end of the day,

00:24:24.840 | you can kind of first break up types of trust

00:24:27.400 | by how they were created.

00:24:29.960 | And what I mean by that is testamentary trust

00:24:33.720 | and living trust are kind of--

00:24:35.760 | they're like kind of the first basic step

00:24:37.800 | of identifying the type of trust that it is.

00:24:41.760 | So a testamentary trust is a trust

00:24:43.520 | that's created in your last will and testament.

00:24:47.440 | I paid a lot of money to go to law school to learn that.

00:24:52.120 | Nonetheless, I see a lot of times

00:24:54.960 | with testamentary trust that are the kind that are created

00:24:57.760 | in the last will and testament.

00:24:59.680 | A lot of times, those are what I like to refer to them

00:25:02.520 | as like standby trusts.

00:25:04.720 | So what I mean by that are things like, OK,

00:25:07.640 | maybe we're a young family and we're just

00:25:09.680 | trying to get our core four done.

00:25:12.400 | But maybe we have some minor kids

00:25:14.280 | that we want to put some perimeters around

00:25:16.440 | and how they inherit.

00:25:18.160 | So there may be a standby trust inside people's wills to say,

00:25:22.640 | OK, I don't want little Susie to inherit at 18.

00:25:27.200 | I want little Susie to inherit maybe a little bit at 18,

00:25:30.800 | a little bit at 21, 25, 30, whatever.

00:25:34.720 | So to accomplish something like that

00:25:37.080 | is going to be likely using a trust inside of your will.

00:25:41.440 | And I say it's a standby trust because maybe you

00:25:45.520 | survive, ideally.

00:25:48.320 | And little Susie is 60, 70 years old when you die.

00:25:53.040 | So none of these little standby provisions are even applicable.

00:25:56.640 | So they're just there just in case something happens.

00:26:00.360 | Another kind of standby I see all the time

00:26:02.360 | with testamentary trusts are special needs trusts.

00:26:05.480 | So if we have any disabled or special needs beneficiaries

00:26:10.440 | in our lives, it breaks my heart when

00:26:14.000 | I hear people say, oh, I can't leave Johnny anything

00:26:17.800 | of my estate because he's special needs

00:26:20.880 | and he's on Medicaid.

00:26:22.600 | Hear me loud and clear.

00:26:24.200 | You can leave those kind of folks in inheritance.

00:26:27.880 | They just have to be done in a very

00:26:29.480 | intentional and strategic way.

00:26:31.360 | And that's often done through a special needs trust.

00:26:34.520 | Whether that special needs trust is a testamentary trust

00:26:38.280 | in your will, or maybe it's a freestanding one.

00:26:41.720 | And what I mean by freestanding is a nice segue

00:26:44.000 | to that living trust.

00:26:45.960 | So if you think about it, a testamentary trust

00:26:48.800 | is created after we die because that's

00:26:51.560 | when the last will and testament kicks into action.

00:26:55.320 | A living trust is one that's created while you are living.

00:27:00.880 | So these are the common ones that you

00:27:02.540 | may have family, friends, or maybe yourself,

00:27:06.520 | like a revocable living trust.

00:27:07.920 | That's a very popular kind of trust out there.

00:27:12.360 | That is a type of a living trust because it's a trust

00:27:15.720 | that you create while you're living.

00:27:17.920 | We're not waiting for it to activate after we pass away.

00:27:21.280 | We're activating it now.

00:27:23.560 | So just to hit on a few of the more popular ones I see,

00:27:28.840 | like I said, revocable living trust, that's a very common one

00:27:31.440 | to do to avoid that probate process.

00:27:35.520 | I also see it all the time for individuals

00:27:38.200 | that have a very specific type of distribution

00:27:40.720 | that they're wanting to accomplish.

00:27:42.680 | So think maybe we have a beneficiary that

00:27:47.240 | has some personal issues going on.

00:27:49.280 | Maybe they're either terrible with money.

00:27:52.400 | Maybe there's an addiction as part

00:27:55.080 | of the planning part of this.

00:27:57.640 | A lot of times, we're using more advanced planning

00:28:00.000 | to accommodate them.

00:28:02.080 | Irrevocable trust planning, those are most often

00:28:05.720 | used either for tax planning.

00:28:08.200 | I wish I had a few extra minutes to talk about taxes,

00:28:11.240 | but I don't.

00:28:12.480 | But they're often used for estate tax planning purposes.

00:28:16.640 | I use them all the time in my office for asset protection

00:28:21.240 | trust planning, specifically for long-term care

00:28:25.040 | and helping people qualify for Medicaid--

00:28:27.800 | not Medicare, Medicaid-- down the road.

00:28:31.280 | So I use irrevocable trust all the time

00:28:32.960 | for people that have that goal.

00:28:35.880 | Charitable trust, if you're charitably inclined,

00:28:40.480 | there's many types of trust out there that allow you to support

00:28:43.160 | your favorite charitable organizations while receiving

00:28:45.480 | tax benefits along the way.

00:28:47.560 | And special needs trust, I talked about.

00:28:49.960 | You can actually create them now.

00:28:52.280 | You can create them while you're living.

00:28:54.360 | If you plan on gifting to that individual now--

00:29:00.400 | I set those up quite often, too.

00:29:02.920 | One last note on this slide before I think probably

00:29:06.320 | we're shifting to questions.

00:29:08.960 | Funding a trust.

00:29:10.080 | I always tell people, oh, you have extra time.

00:29:14.920 | Yay.

00:29:16.360 | It's like a little love note.

00:29:17.840 | OK, funding a trust.

00:29:23.200 | If you do a trust as part of your estate plan,

00:29:27.000 | also hear me loud and clear on this, too.

00:29:30.000 | Funding-- there's like three general steps

00:29:33.320 | when you create a trust.

00:29:34.720 | Create it, fund it, which I'm going

00:29:37.720 | to talk about in a second, and grow with it.

00:29:41.480 | Because estate planning is not usually a one-time thing.

00:29:44.480 | You've got to keep massaging it and keep

00:29:46.760 | it applicable to what your current situation is.

00:29:49.760 | So that second part, after we have the trust created--

00:29:53.840 | so we've got the document.

00:29:56.000 | We've signed it.

00:29:57.600 | The next step, the next vital step that people miss all

00:30:01.960 | the time is funding it.

00:30:04.200 | Funding it is changing the ownership of your assets

00:30:09.240 | or modifying beneficiary designations

00:30:12.080 | to support the actual trust document.

00:30:15.640 | If you do not fund--

00:30:17.480 | if you don't get the trust funded,

00:30:20.520 | if you don't change ownership, if you don't modify

00:30:23.040 | your beneficiaries, the trust may not work at all.

00:30:27.760 | It could be a pile of paper that you

00:30:29.320 | paid way too much money for.

00:30:31.440 | And so funding a trust, I consider

00:30:34.840 | as part of setting--

00:30:36.600 | if I'm doing a trust for someone,

00:30:38.480 | that is part of our process is to help them get it funded.

00:30:41.720 | But I cannot tell you the number of prospects and clients

00:30:46.040 | that I see that bring this honking big binder to my office

00:30:52.280 | and they flop it on the table.

00:30:54.440 | And I'm looking through it, and I just casually--

00:30:58.400 | because I've done this too many times--

00:31:03.080 | casually say, so what's in this trust?

00:31:06.760 | Did you move your house in?

00:31:09.120 | Is your brokerage in here?

00:31:10.920 | And they just look, and they're like, what?

00:31:14.400 | I don't think so.

00:31:16.280 | And I'm like, oh, am I going to be the bearer of bad news?

00:31:19.560 | Well, not really the bearer of bad news,

00:31:21.240 | but now we got to play clean up.

00:31:22.540 | So if you do a trust, or if you have a trust,

00:31:26.600 | make sure you get the thing funded.

00:31:28.800 | If I work with someone like that,

00:31:33.000 | if the trust that they already have is fine and dandy,

00:31:36.440 | we may have to amend it a tiny bit.

00:31:39.400 | But otherwise, sometimes they'll hire me just

00:31:41.600 | to help get it funded, because maybe there

00:31:44.960 | wasn't an emphasis on that when they set it up,

00:31:48.400 | or maybe life got in the way, and they just totally

00:31:50.880 | forgot to get it done.

00:31:52.980 | But nonetheless, very, very important to get that done.

00:31:56.440 | Give me-- oh, I thought I had one more.

00:32:03.160 | Yes, this, OK.

00:32:05.760 | Should we go to questions, or can I do like one horror story?

00:32:09.880 | [INAUDIBLE]

00:32:12.000 | Horror stories, OK.

00:32:13.360 | Oh, which one do I want to do?

00:32:15.760 | Well, I already talked about that first one.

00:32:17.880 | So the ex-spouse is a beneficiary

00:32:19.360 | in IRA and life insurance.

00:32:20.840 | Long story short, what happened with that is basically,

00:32:26.640 | they ended up settling.

00:32:27.720 | Because like I said earlier, we don't know.

00:32:29.660 | There was actually a little bit of a strained relationship

00:32:32.080 | between dad and daughter.

00:32:33.680 | And so there was an argument to be

00:32:35.160 | made that maybe he just left the ex-spouse on there

00:32:40.000 | from a place of like, I don't know who else to leave,

00:32:42.200 | so maybe he did it intentionally.

00:32:43.540 | So in that case, they ended up settling.

00:32:45.720 | Ex-spouse did get to walk away with stuff

00:32:48.480 | with part of the gentleman's IRA and life insurance.

00:32:52.920 | Which one do I want to do?

00:32:55.760 | And then I'll shift to questions.

00:32:58.760 | I'll do that next one, actually.

00:33:00.120 | Because I think I've talked about beneficiaries

00:33:02.080 | with addictions and Medicaid.

00:33:03.880 | Those just require special planning, guys.

00:33:06.360 | I know it's not fun to talk about the elephant

00:33:09.080 | in the room things, but I can't do my job

00:33:12.640 | if I don't know about them.

00:33:14.440 | But when I do know about those elephant in the room things,

00:33:18.080 | I look like a superstar because I

00:33:20.400 | can do such awesome things for those types of individuals

00:33:23.680 | and beneficiaries.

00:33:24.480 | So that's just a subtle encouragement,

00:33:26.520 | just to be very honest with whoever

00:33:28.160 | you work with from an estate planning attorney standpoint.

00:33:31.000 | OK, so I'll do that next bullet, that put nephew as beneficiary,

00:33:34.240 | but Will had seven nieces and nephews.

00:33:37.080 | So this case, long story short, lady passed away.

00:33:43.440 | Her Will had seven nieces and nephews listed as beneficiary,

00:33:49.920 | but she was one of those people that had lots of CDs.

00:33:54.840 | She would be like a CD chaser.

00:33:56.680 | We all know them.

00:33:58.400 | Maybe you're one of them.

00:34:01.640 | She would go to lots of different banks

00:34:03.840 | and find the highest interest rate.

00:34:06.000 | Long story short, she passed away, and all of her assets

00:34:10.280 | had just one of the-- it was one of the nephews--

00:34:14.520 | just one nephew on as beneficiary on everything.

00:34:20.440 | So the Will had, hey, I want to split it

00:34:22.280 | between these seven people, but then

00:34:24.880 | on the actual beneficiary, it had this one person.

00:34:30.080 | And so we got it cleaned up, but this

00:34:33.320 | is a little bit of a cautionary tale horror story

00:34:35.880 | because that family had to pay me more to clean it up

00:34:39.280 | because generously, the nephew that was listed, he was like,

00:34:44.080 | I know this is what she wanted to share,

00:34:47.480 | so I'm going to disclaim and let it go to the other six,

00:34:53.400 | between all seven.

00:34:55.440 | So I mean, I had to do a significant amount of extra

00:34:58.200 | work to accommodate what this person was

00:35:01.320 | trying to accomplish.

00:35:02.320 | So it's just a lesson in making sure--

00:35:05.560 | kind of what I was blabbing about earlier of really making

00:35:08.320 | sure that we get our assets in a place

00:35:11.720 | to really support what we're trying to accomplish.

00:35:14.240 | It's single-handedly.

00:35:15.600 | The biggest misconception-- or biggest mistake

00:35:17.840 | that I see people make is they do this--

00:35:20.320 | they do their estate plan, and then

00:35:22.000 | they fail to really take a look at their assets

00:35:24.000 | and get it to support those documents.

00:35:27.800 | OK, I'm ready for Shark Tank questions.

00:35:32.920 | Thank you so much, Jenny.

00:35:37.840 | Yeah.

00:35:38.360 | If I was the one up here yesterday

00:35:40.640 | without my slides, my little introvert stage fright heart

00:35:46.640 | would have just collapsed and died in front of all of you.

00:35:49.680 | So can we get some applause for Jenny, please?

00:35:51.640 | Oh.

00:35:52.140 | You also have at least three times as many questions

00:36:01.000 | as anybody else has got.

00:36:01.960 | I see a pile.

00:36:03.740 | OK, for those who are young and in good health,

00:36:06.600 | is it still important to do trust estate

00:36:08.360 | planning in your 30s or 40s?

00:36:10.720 | And if you change your mind later in life,

00:36:13.040 | should we contact lawyers again to update the will?

00:36:17.200 | Yes.

00:36:19.560 | Kind of like I was saying earlier about estate planning

00:36:22.520 | should grow with you, it is vital for those

00:36:25.800 | in their 30s and 40s that may have minor kids

00:36:29.080 | to get guardianship provisions as part of their estate plan.

00:36:33.200 | Vital to get that in place.

00:36:34.800 | And then as far as updating it in the future,

00:36:39.360 | you don't have to use the attorney

00:36:41.000 | that you used back then, unless you contracted with them

00:36:45.240 | and said, like, you're going to be my attorney forever.

00:36:47.520 | But that would be weird.

00:36:49.320 | Find someone that you like.

00:36:51.120 | Make sure that-- yeah, find someone you like.

00:36:55.120 | It pains me when people say, oh, I

00:36:56.760 | have to go back to my dad's lawyer back home.

00:36:59.960 | And I'm like, no, you don't.

00:37:01.520 | No, you don't.

00:37:03.600 | Can you speak to when the deceased and the beneficiaries

00:37:06.240 | are in different states?

00:37:07.440 | Whose laws apply?

00:37:09.480 | It depends.

00:37:10.480 | That's only the second time I've said that.

00:37:12.520 | Kind of impressive.

00:37:14.400 | So it primarily depends-- so from an estate administration

00:37:18.880 | standpoint, it's going to be the state in which the decedent,

00:37:21.960 | the deceased person, died, unless they

00:37:25.080 | have property in other states.

00:37:27.080 | So I have a lot of clients that will

00:37:29.160 | have their primary residence in Indiana,

00:37:32.880 | but maybe they have a house in Florida or Arizona

00:37:36.160 | or something.

00:37:37.000 | Those are going to be-- those assets

00:37:38.520 | are going to be dictated by those other states' laws.

00:37:42.080 | But the only caveat I would place on why I said it depends

00:37:44.840 | is because some states still have inheritance tax.

00:37:50.720 | Not all of them, but some do.

00:37:53.400 | And if the beneficiary lives in a state that still

00:37:56.640 | has inheritance tax--

00:37:58.760 | excuse me-- the inheritance tax is going to apply.

00:38:01.920 | Oh, no, do you live in an inheritance--

00:38:03.600 | That's me.

00:38:04.320 | Oh, I'm sorry.

00:38:05.520 | Yeah, it's a small list, and it seems to be decreasing.

00:38:10.240 | But if the beneficiary does live in a state that

00:38:13.000 | has an inheritance tax, that's going to apply to them.

00:38:16.040 | And is it true that at the state level,

00:38:19.560 | it matters whether it's an inheritance tax or an estate

00:38:21.880 | tax?

00:38:22.560 | Say that again.

00:38:23.400 | At the state level, does it matter

00:38:24.820 | whether it's an inheritance tax or an estate tax?

00:38:27.680 | Yes, because they're very different.

00:38:29.160 | Inheritance tax and estate tax are very different.

00:38:31.280 | Inheritance tax is taxed on the beneficiary,

00:38:33.640 | while estate tax is taxed on the estate.

00:38:37.120 | And even more confusing, there's federal estate tax,

00:38:42.160 | which I think it's $13.61 million per person currently.

00:38:46.680 | They're talking about making that lower.

00:38:48.520 | So just FYI, keep an eye on that.

00:38:50.880 | But some states also have an estate tax.

00:38:56.960 | So yeah, be mindful of that.

00:39:00.280 | Please discuss the pros and cons of a springing

00:39:02.480 | versus non-springing power of attorney.

00:39:04.680 | Oh, gosh.

00:39:05.480 | OK.

00:39:06.200 | So springing power of attorneys often

00:39:10.360 | spring into action upon some sort of trigger,

00:39:14.120 | some sort of event.

00:39:15.360 | So I normally see these where a springing power of attorney,

00:39:19.200 | say, for example, doesn't come into action

00:39:22.240 | until documented incapacity, which could be problematic,

00:39:28.940 | because doctors often don't like just going around declaring

00:39:32.000 | people incapacitated.

00:39:34.240 | And so I typically recommend-- and I actually

00:39:37.560 | talked about this in Christine's book,

00:39:40.280 | the section I helped her with.

00:39:42.440 | I typically recommend a general durable power of attorney.

00:39:46.680 | And I say-- and the opposite of durable is springing.

00:39:52.000 | So they kind of conflict with each other,

00:39:54.280 | because durable kind of grants it immediately,

00:39:57.920 | grants authority immediately.

00:39:59.420 | But I always tell people--

00:40:01.340 | like, that was a lot of legalese.

00:40:02.840 | And what I always tell people is,

00:40:04.220 | if you trust the person to be in the document,

00:40:06.860 | you probably should trust the person

00:40:08.600 | not to do any funny business, even

00:40:10.100 | though you're fine and dandy.

00:40:11.500 | And so that's why I typically recommend

00:40:13.100 | a general durable power of attorney for clients.

00:40:16.620 | If I move out of state, should I redo my estate plan?

00:40:19.180 | And what about my trust?

00:40:20.300 | If you move out of state, I always

00:40:23.100 | encourage people to have an estate

00:40:25.380 | attorney in the new state take a look at the documents.

00:40:29.240 | Because I was talking to Mike, actually,

00:40:31.680 | right before this session, that annoyingly, they really

00:40:35.400 | put the thumb down on us attorneys

00:40:37.240 | in terms of licensure.

00:40:39.440 | So I can only help people--

00:40:41.120 | the two people in this room that are from Indiana--

00:40:44.640 | I'm joking.

00:40:46.120 | But at the end of the day, you have

00:40:50.480 | to make sure that it's doing not only what you want it to do,

00:40:55.040 | but also in compliance with wherever

00:40:57.100 | your state of residency is.

00:40:58.460 | And so every state may have different laws,

00:41:01.980 | and you need to be cognizant of that.

00:41:03.780 | A lot of times, it doesn't require a whole rewrite,

00:41:06.260 | but it may require a little bit of a shift or an amendment

00:41:09.060 | to get in compliance with the new state.

00:41:11.860 | How do you feel about a spouse being

00:41:13.340 | medical power of attorney?

00:41:14.540 | Does that put them in too emotional of a situation?

00:41:16.620 | Oh, I kind of want to know who asked that.

00:41:18.460 | [LAUGHTER]

00:41:21.580 | I would say, generally speaking, most people

00:41:23.700 | put their spouse as medical power of attorney primary, most.

00:41:29.740 | Very rarely do I see people say, they're

00:41:32.740 | going to be too emotional.

00:41:35.380 | You have to put yourself--

00:41:37.420 | a lot of us have probably been in a situation

00:41:39.540 | where there's a major medical decision that has to be made.

00:41:44.420 | The emotions are quite high.

00:41:47.140 | And sometimes people have concerns

00:41:49.360 | around whether their spouse can look at things

00:41:51.820 | from a more fact-based, less emotional approach.

00:41:57.460 | So most of the time, most, a heavy majority,

00:42:00.220 | like 99.99999% of the time, people

00:42:03.500 | put their spouse as primary.

00:42:05.460 | But ever so often, I'll have someone say, you know what?

00:42:09.160 | I don't want to put that burden on them.

00:42:12.100 | And that's the beautiful thing about state planning.

00:42:14.980 | You've got to do what works well for you and your family.

00:42:19.180 | So that segues into this one.

00:42:21.020 | These are two almost identical questions.

00:42:23.380 | Is it best, and separately, is it most common

00:42:27.180 | to divvy the estate equally among the children?

00:42:29.980 | Or is it best to leave more to each child

00:42:31.980 | based on their financial status?

00:42:34.220 | That's a ooh.

00:42:36.780 | I like the ooh.

00:42:39.820 | Again, typically, most people do equally between their kids.

00:42:46.780 | Though I have heard people say before

00:42:51.020 | where they may do an unequal approach if their relationship

00:42:54.580 | is strained, where maybe there's just like--

00:42:58.980 | there's some-- I don't know what the word I'm looking for is.

00:43:02.860 | But there's something between maybe

00:43:05.180 | like the parent and the child.

00:43:07.860 | And they don't have it in their heart to disinherit them.

00:43:11.340 | But they'll leave them maybe a smaller amount.

00:43:16.260 | The only other thing I've heard on that topic

00:43:18.060 | is whether you should consider if you

00:43:19.780 | have a child that's like someone that's

00:43:22.740 | making a lot of money versus--

00:43:25.340 | let's say one child that's a doctor, one child that's

00:43:28.820 | a social worker.

00:43:31.900 | I really try hard not to put my personal opinion in things.

00:43:36.940 | I don't think it's my job to say like, well,

00:43:40.460 | you shouldn't penalize the doctor in this situation.

00:43:45.340 | But at the end of the day, you have

00:43:46.940 | to do what feels good in your heart and your brain.

00:43:51.500 | I have done some situations where I just--

00:43:55.340 | in my heart, I didn't agree with what the client was doing.

00:43:57.980 | Client didn't know that.

00:43:59.060 | But you just have to do what's best for you.

00:44:00.940 | And while I'm on the topic of when

00:44:02.660 | I said about maybe a strained relationship with the child,

00:44:07.140 | if you do choose to disinherit a child,

00:44:09.020 | please do not leave them a dollar.

00:44:11.260 | Don't do it.

00:44:12.220 | It's bad.

00:44:13.060 | You're making them a beneficiary.

00:44:14.580 | And beneficiaries are entitled to certain parts of notice

00:44:18.300 | and accountings and things like that.

00:44:20.280 | So it's like an old school approach to do that.

00:44:22.580 | I'm going to leave you a dollar to disinherit you.

00:44:24.660 | Bad, bad, bad, bad.

00:44:27.100 | Can transfer upon death property avoid probate?

00:44:31.000 | Yes.

00:44:31.540 | Yeah, transfer on death is a--

00:44:33.380 | transfer on death and payable on death

00:44:35.460 | are technically a beneficiary.

00:44:37.740 | So when I was talking earlier about the different ways

00:44:40.660 | to own assets, we had individually owned.

00:44:43.120 | That second one was beneficiary designated.

00:44:45.300 | Transfer on death and payable on death

00:44:47.420 | are types of beneficiary designations.

00:44:50.220 | You have to be very mindful, though, of--

00:44:52.500 | I've also seen everything in my world

00:44:54.580 | just feels like it's--

00:44:56.180 | if it's too good to be true, it is.

00:44:58.980 | That's a really helpful, easy way to avoid probate.

00:45:03.140 | There are some considerations there

00:45:04.600 | that you need to walk through in your head

00:45:06.620 | that I at least help clients walk through.

00:45:09.660 | So if you put a transfer on death on a house

00:45:12.700 | to maybe three kids, I really hope those three kids

00:45:17.200 | know how to work well together.

00:45:19.620 | Because if they don't, we could be in a world of hurt

00:45:22.500 | just because we were trying to avoid probate, which we did.

00:45:26.700 | But now they're fighting because we can't agree on something.

00:45:29.940 | So just make sure you're--

00:45:32.020 | when you think about your goals, like, OK,

00:45:34.260 | if we want to avoid probate, great.

00:45:35.740 | Let's make sure we understand all the consequences

00:45:39.500 | of what we're choosing to do.

00:45:41.660 | How do I find a good estate lawyer?

00:45:43.120 | And what questions should I ask them when interviewing?

00:45:47.220 | You need to find--

00:45:48.300 | you don't need to.

00:45:50.660 | I would encourage you to find an attorney when

00:45:53.460 | you embark on an estate process that does this day in and day

00:45:58.860 | out.

00:45:59.380 | The kind of annoying thing about the law

00:46:04.020 | is that when we come out of law school,

00:46:05.660 | we can really do any type of field that we want.

00:46:10.140 | So I could technically help people

00:46:12.820 | with a divorce or a bankruptcy or criminal DUI or whatever.

00:46:19.580 | Do I know how to do any of those things?

00:46:21.780 | No, not at all.

00:46:23.180 | I wouldn't even know where to begin.

00:46:25.020 | But my law license says that I could.

00:46:28.140 | So the difficult thing is that if you

00:46:32.540 | find an attorney that does all these different kinds

00:46:35.900 | of fields, they may be stretched a little too thin

00:46:39.500 | on their knowledge.

00:46:40.540 | Like, our brain is only so big.

00:46:43.140 | And you can only--

00:46:45.500 | I would encourage you to work with someone that does--

00:46:48.660 | has really reined in their practice areas

00:46:50.700 | and knows them really deeply, rather than someone

00:46:54.060 | that does a lot of different practice areas

00:46:56.620 | and is kind of just ever so--

00:47:00.780 | knows a lot, but not a lot of a lot.

00:47:05.820 | Within the estate planning field,

00:47:07.980 | should I assume that an estate planning attorney can also

00:47:10.820 | help with the estate tax planning?

00:47:12.820 | Or is that a separate area of expertise?

00:47:14.780 | It is technically a separate area.

00:47:17.280 | It's actually something you and I were about to start talking

00:47:19.820 | about before this session, that even within the estate planning

00:47:22.940 | space, there's almost different areas of estate planning.

00:47:27.260 | There's estate tax planning.

00:47:28.620 | There's elder law.

00:47:29.580 | I do-- a big part of my practice is elder law planning.

00:47:33.900 | And so if you have estate tax concerns,

00:47:37.540 | make sure that person knows.

00:47:40.480 | And a lot of times, you can look,

00:47:41.860 | and I think that was part of the question, the prior question,

00:47:44.440 | is like, how do I know someone knows how to do this?

00:47:48.500 | One, if the lawyer actually has a website, which

00:47:51.340 | I say that totally seriously, because not a lot of lawyers

00:47:54.940 | have a website.

00:47:56.180 | That's weird.

00:47:57.660 | But look at their bio.

00:47:59.020 | Look to see what kind--

00:48:00.260 | like Mike mentioned earlier, I belong

00:48:01.940 | to the probate trust, real property

00:48:03.660 | section, the elder law division, the estate division.

00:48:07.100 | That's what I live and breathe.

00:48:08.460 | But if you see people that are hanging out

00:48:10.660 | in like criminal division, that's probably not

00:48:14.620 | going to be someone that you should work with

00:48:16.660 | to do your estate planning.

00:48:19.580 | Yeah, so be conscious of that.

00:48:20.820 | If you have estate tax concerns, make

00:48:22.460 | sure you're working with someone that

00:48:24.020 | knows those weird acronyms that I said earlier,

00:48:26.100 | like CRETS and CRETS and ILETS and SLATS.

00:48:29.580 | I think we have to wrap up.

00:48:30.740 | I know, it's sad.

00:48:31.480 | Thank you so much for your time.

00:48:32.820 | [APPLAUSE]

00:48:35.860 | [BLANK_AUDIO]

Bogleheads® Conference 2024 Estate Planning-What Every Boglehead Needs to Know w/ Jennifer Rozelle

Chapters