AMA #3: Adaptogens, Fasting & Fertility, Bluetooth/EMF Risks, Cognitive Load Limits & More
Chapters
0:0 Introduction1:27 Adaptogens
29:42 Huberman Lab Premium
00:00:00.000 | [upbeat music]
00:00:00.840 | - Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast,
00:00:02.260 | where we discuss science and science-based tools
00:00:04.900 | for everyday life.
00:00:05.920 | I'm Andrew Huberman,
00:00:10.040 | and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology
00:00:12.820 | at Stanford School of Medicine.
00:00:14.620 | Today is an Ask Me Anything or AMA episode,
00:00:18.200 | which is part of our premium subscriber content.
00:00:20.860 | Our premium channel was launched in order to raise support
00:00:23.360 | for the standard Huberman Lab Podcast channel,
00:00:25.640 | which still comes out once a week, every Monday,
00:00:28.180 | and of course is zero cost to consumer.
00:00:30.460 | The premium channel is also designed
00:00:32.180 | to support exciting research being done
00:00:34.280 | at major universities like Stanford and elsewhere,
00:00:36.940 | research that's done on humans that should lead
00:00:38.960 | to protocols for mental health, physical health,
00:00:41.280 | and performance in the near future.
00:00:44.000 | If you'd like to check out
00:00:45.080 | the premium channel subscription model,
00:00:46.500 | you can go to HubermanLab.com/premium,
00:00:49.160 | and there you can subscribe for $10 a month
00:00:51.480 | or $100 a year.
00:00:52.340 | We also have a lifetime subscriber option.
00:00:54.540 | For those of you that are already Huberman Lab Podcast
00:00:56.560 | premium subscribers, and you're watching and/or hearing this,
00:00:59.840 | please go to HubermanLab.com/premium
00:01:02.600 | and download the premium podcast feed.
00:01:05.120 | And for those of you that are not already
00:01:06.800 | Huberman Lab premium podcast subscribers,
00:01:09.140 | you will be able to hear the first 15 minutes or so
00:01:11.760 | of this episode, and hopefully that will allow you
00:01:13.500 | to discern whether or not you would like
00:01:15.040 | to become a premium subscriber.
00:01:16.780 | Without further ado, let's get to answering your questions.
00:01:19.760 | And as always, I will strive to be as accurate as possible,
00:01:22.720 | as thorough as possible, and yet as concise as possible.
00:01:27.120 | The first question today is about adaptogens.
00:01:29.840 | Some of you may have heard of adaptogens.
00:01:32.020 | I'm guessing many of you have not heard of adaptogens.
00:01:34.940 | The strict definition of adaptogens is still evolving,
00:01:37.560 | meaning no one really knows what adaptogens mean
00:01:40.540 | and what's included in adaptogens
00:01:42.560 | and what's excluded from adaptogens.
00:01:44.800 | But the most common definition of an adaptogen is a compound
00:01:49.100 | that is typically a supplement or a drug,
00:01:51.880 | although it could be a behavior,
00:01:53.280 | if you really think about it,
00:01:54.680 | that helps you adapt to and buffer stress.
00:01:58.440 | So when you hear about adaptogens,
00:02:00.440 | there are three main categories of adaptogens
00:02:02.700 | that come to mind.
00:02:03.880 | The first are things that are contained in food.
00:02:07.000 | So these would be vitamins or micronutrients
00:02:09.400 | that one could easily find in food,
00:02:11.800 | but one would have to consume a fairly restricted number
00:02:16.240 | or type of foods in order to obtain those things,
00:02:18.760 | or consume a lot of those foods
00:02:20.600 | in order to get sufficient dosages
00:02:23.160 | of those adaptogen compounds in order to buffer stress.
00:02:27.120 | Some good examples of these would be any kind of vitamin,
00:02:30.360 | either water-soluble or fat-soluble that can adjust
00:02:34.600 | or reduce what are so-called reactive oxygen species.
00:02:38.400 | And then that's what gives rise to this idea
00:02:40.080 | that antioxidants are good for us.
00:02:42.520 | Now, over the last 10 years or so, there's been a shift.
00:02:44.840 | What shift has occurred?
00:02:45.840 | Well, about 10 years ago,
00:02:47.880 | you often heard about antioxidants, antioxidants,
00:02:50.600 | antioxidants and vitamins,
00:02:51.620 | antioxidants in this food, this superfood, et cetera.
00:02:54.840 | And why were people talking about antioxidants?
00:02:57.120 | Well, just to remind you, reactive oxygen species
00:03:01.560 | are types of reactions and molecules that occur in cells
00:03:05.960 | when cells get stressed and/or age,
00:03:08.800 | and antioxidants are the compounds
00:03:10.920 | that reduce those reactive oxygen species.
00:03:14.080 | Reactive oxygen species are bad for cells
00:03:16.360 | because they tend to hinder the function of mitochondria,
00:03:19.140 | which are associated with energy production in those cells.
00:03:22.000 | So what do we know for sure?
00:03:23.440 | We know that as cells get older
00:03:25.800 | or as any cell or biological system,
00:03:28.120 | organ, tissue, et cetera, gets stressed a lot over time,
00:03:32.400 | the number of reactive oxygen species
00:03:35.160 | increases in those cells and tissues and organs,
00:03:37.800 | and antioxidants, which can include certain vitamins
00:03:41.560 | but also some micronutrients,
00:03:43.640 | are effective in reducing those reactive oxygen species.
00:03:47.140 | Now, what's occurred over the last 10 years
00:03:48.680 | is that we know that reactive oxygen species
00:03:50.640 | are a major source of depleting cellular function
00:03:54.320 | by way of depleting mitochondrial function,
00:03:56.480 | but they are just one of many mechanisms
00:03:59.360 | that can deplete cellular function, mitochondrial function.
00:04:02.300 | So nowadays, you'll hear about reactive oxygen species
00:04:05.240 | and antioxidants, but not as much as you used to.
00:04:07.920 | Now you hear a lot more about inflammatory responses,
00:04:10.980 | and inflammatory cytokines also be an issue.
00:04:13.280 | And the truth is all of these things are an issue.
00:04:15.900 | So going back to this question about adaptogens,
00:04:18.760 | adaptogens include these three categories,
00:04:21.160 | I've told you the first,
00:04:22.000 | which are the vitamins and micronutrients
00:04:24.400 | that are contained in food
00:04:26.600 | that can reduce reactive oxygen species
00:04:29.500 | and other aspects of cellular stress,
00:04:31.880 | such as inflammatory cytokines.
00:04:33.500 | What are some of those things that occur in foods?
00:04:35.800 | Well, in order to answer that,
00:04:37.680 | let's just think about what sorts of foods themselves
00:04:40.000 | can act as adaptogens.
00:04:42.760 | It's commonly held that the dark leafy greens type foods,
00:04:47.320 | for those of you that eat plants,
00:04:48.440 | and I think the majority of people out there do eat plants.
00:04:50.460 | I know that the carnivore diet and lion diet
00:04:52.620 | and some other diets tend to exclude plants.
00:04:55.960 | We'll address that briefly at some point
00:04:58.880 | in today's discussion.
00:04:59.760 | But dark leafy greens are known to contain
00:05:02.240 | a number of compounds in the form of vitamins
00:05:05.440 | and micronutrients that are very effective
00:05:07.760 | in reducing reactive oxygen species
00:05:10.680 | and inflammatory cytokines.
00:05:12.700 | So if you're somebody who's interested in adaptogens
00:05:15.480 | and adaptogenic processes,
00:05:17.160 | reducing stress and buffering stress,
00:05:19.560 | which of course has its role in buffering daily stress
00:05:22.620 | in order to help you sleep better,
00:05:23.820 | to improve cellular function for longevity,
00:05:25.820 | sports performance, cognitive performance,
00:05:27.920 | that is all good and it makes sense
00:05:29.340 | why people would be interested in adaptogens.
00:05:30.960 | But remember that the two main adaptogens
00:05:34.040 | that you should think to first
00:05:36.160 | are going to be behaviors and nutrition.
00:05:38.100 | I've started with nutrition on purpose.
00:05:40.400 | As I mentioned, we'll get to behaviors in a moment.
00:05:42.260 | So if you're interested in adaptogens at all,
00:05:44.240 | I highly recommend that you include
00:05:46.240 | at least two to four servings of dark leafy greens
00:05:49.520 | and/or cruciferous vegetables per day.
00:05:51.960 | I think that'd be highly advantageous.
00:05:53.960 | And just be aware that excessively heating
00:05:56.800 | dark leafy greens or cruciferous vegetables
00:05:58.920 | can actually destroy the very nutrients and micronutrients
00:06:01.680 | that act in an adaptogenic way.
00:06:03.580 | That does not mean that you need to eat raw broccoli
00:06:05.680 | or cauliflower.
00:06:06.600 | Just the thought of that makes me nauseous.
00:06:08.160 | It's very hard to digest.
00:06:09.160 | Some people might like that or can digest it more easily
00:06:12.300 | than others.
00:06:13.140 | So it's perfectly fine to cook your cruciferous vegetables
00:06:16.280 | and dark leafy greens,
00:06:17.420 | but you don't want to overcook them.
00:06:19.140 | What's overcooking and what's under cooking?
00:06:21.700 | There's no strict cutoff in terms of temperature,
00:06:24.680 | but basically what the literature says
00:06:26.100 | is that if you heat vegetables to the point
00:06:29.140 | where the colored fluid is leaching out of them
00:06:32.740 | into a broth type, into water,
00:06:36.160 | whatever fluid surrounds them,
00:06:37.820 | well then you would be well off to ingest that fluid as well
00:06:40.560 | because it contained in the water
00:06:43.320 | or the fluid that's leaching out
00:06:44.860 | from the cruciferous vegetables
00:06:46.320 | or from the dark leafy greens
00:06:47.580 | are going to be a lot of those very adaptogenic molecules
00:06:49.860 | that you're interested in the first place.
00:06:51.620 | Okay, so I probably surprised some people
00:06:53.140 | by starting off my answer to the question
00:06:54.720 | of what are adaptogens?
00:06:55.940 | Are they worth thinking about and pursuing?
00:06:58.000 | And if so, how can I get them?
00:06:59.820 | By talking about food.
00:07:01.240 | But I think it is important to understand
00:07:02.720 | that you can get a lot of adaptogens from food.
00:07:04.480 | And indeed some of the best adaptogens
00:07:06.260 | do come from dark leafy greens and cruciferous vegetables.
00:07:09.060 | So I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that.
00:07:11.200 | The other two categories of adaptogens
00:07:13.700 | are going to be supplement-based adaptogens
00:07:16.100 | and then behavioral adaptogens.
00:07:17.900 | Again, here adaptogen defined as anything
00:07:20.300 | that can buffer stress in a substantial or meaningful way
00:07:24.200 | in order to support cellular health, organ health,
00:07:27.220 | and overall daily living and functioning,
00:07:30.680 | including sleep and performance and mental health.
00:07:33.140 | So the second category of adaptogen
00:07:35.380 | are going to be supplements.
00:07:36.500 | And here again, I just want to take a step back
00:07:38.540 | and make sure that we are clear
00:07:39.760 | about our operational definition about what a supplement is.
00:07:43.340 | We had an episode all about
00:07:45.220 | how to design a rational guide to supplementation,
00:07:48.680 | which included, for example,
00:07:50.500 | the idea that for some people,
00:07:51.980 | the optimal dosage of many supplements is going to be zero.
00:07:55.020 | And for other people, the dosage will be something else.
00:07:57.360 | But to really pinpoint the key message from that episode
00:08:00.660 | that I'd like to reiterate now,
00:08:02.540 | but a key message from that episode
00:08:05.040 | that I'd like to reiterate now
00:08:06.740 | is that many people think of supplements
00:08:09.240 | as just vitamin supplements.
00:08:12.020 | And for that reason, you'll often hear the argument,
00:08:14.700 | oh, well, aren't supplements just expensive urine?
00:08:17.020 | Couldn't you get all of that from food?
00:08:18.540 | Aren't you just urinating out all the water soluble vitamins
00:08:21.600 | and maybe even storing excess amounts
00:08:23.320 | of the fat soluble vitamins in a way that's unhealthy
00:08:25.540 | or not cost-effective and so on.
00:08:27.340 | When we talk about supplements,
00:08:29.680 | yes, it can include vitamin supplements.
00:08:32.340 | However, there are many compounds
00:08:34.120 | that we would describe as supplements
00:08:36.120 | that are not vitamin supplements
00:08:37.780 | and that you could not obtain from food
00:08:39.620 | or that you could never obtain from food
00:08:42.380 | in sufficient enough qualities
00:08:43.700 | to have a robust positive biological effect
00:08:46.700 | without consuming an enormous number of calories
00:08:48.920 | or overriding your gut mechanically.
00:08:51.940 | For instance, if there were say a herb,
00:08:56.780 | and we'll talk about such herbs in a moment,
00:08:58.500 | that contained an effective adaptogen,
00:09:01.180 | but you would never want to eat the plant itself
00:09:04.340 | or include that herb in any kind of recipe,
00:09:06.720 | well, then chances are this herb,
00:09:09.380 | which we'll define in a moment, is not a vitamin supplement.
00:09:12.820 | It is probably not even best thought of as a supplement.
00:09:16.000 | It's best thought of as a compound
00:09:17.420 | that's sold over the counter,
00:09:18.600 | much like a prescription drug,
00:09:20.320 | although it's not prescription.
00:09:21.680 | It doesn't require a prescription to get it.
00:09:23.240 | So there are a lot of things like that
00:09:24.520 | that we include under the umbrella of this word supplements.
00:09:27.600 | And unfortunately, because of that,
00:09:29.800 | a lot of people think, oh, you don't need supplements.
00:09:31.620 | And of course you don't need supplements per se,
00:09:33.960 | but many people do derive tremendous benefit from them.
00:09:36.680 | In the context of adaptogens,
00:09:38.060 | there are two or three in particular
00:09:39.780 | that can be very beneficial
00:09:41.620 | for buffering the stress response,
00:09:43.140 | especially over short periods of time
00:09:44.740 | of about two to three weeks.
00:09:46.600 | So when would you use these?
00:09:48.120 | Well, for instance,
00:09:48.960 | if you are in a particularly stressful mode of life,
00:09:51.280 | either because of family or relational or school
00:09:55.680 | or work demands or new kid in the house
00:09:58.280 | or any number of different things,
00:10:00.020 | or you've been ill or you're recovering from injury,
00:10:02.820 | taking an adaptogen in the form of supplement
00:10:05.120 | can actually be very useful for buffering this hormone
00:10:08.560 | and the general systems it's associated with called cortisol.
00:10:11.720 | It's very healthy to have high levels of cortisol
00:10:14.480 | early in the day, shortly after you wake up,
00:10:16.640 | and then that ought to taper off
00:10:18.480 | toward the afternoon and evening.
00:10:19.860 | However, if cortisol is chronically elevated
00:10:22.400 | throughout the day,
00:10:23.220 | or if that peak in cortisol is arriving too late in the day,
00:10:26.000 | that is known to be associated
00:10:27.280 | with mental health and physical health issues
00:10:29.040 | has been shown by labs at Stanford and elsewhere.
00:10:31.400 | It's been shown in animal models and in humans.
00:10:34.440 | Talked many times before, and I'll just remind you again,
00:10:36.840 | that one of the best ways to restrict that cortisol peak
00:10:41.800 | to the early part of the day
00:10:43.040 | is to get morning sunlight in your eyes as soon as you can,
00:10:46.340 | once the sun is up, get outside,
00:10:47.640 | facing the direction of the sun, even on overcast days,
00:10:49.900 | don't wear sunglasses, look at it for five to 30 minutes,
00:10:52.720 | definitely blink so you don't damage your eyes,
00:10:55.000 | so on and so forth.
00:10:56.760 | Why five minutes or 30 minutes?
00:10:58.380 | Well, five minutes on a clear day should be sufficient,
00:11:00.440 | longer would be fine.
00:11:01.460 | Again, blink so that you protect your eyes,
00:11:03.480 | blink as needed, facing the general direction of the sun.
00:11:06.200 | On days when you have a lot of overcast
00:11:08.920 | or it's really dark, dense cloud cover,
00:11:11.520 | well, then you'd want to be outside longer,
00:11:12.920 | and if you don't have access to sunlight
00:11:14.640 | for whatever reason, then you want to do the same thing
00:11:16.320 | with bright artificial lights indoors,
00:11:18.680 | either so-called sad lamp or otherwise.
00:11:20.560 | That's a great way to restrict that cortisol peak
00:11:22.920 | to early in the day, but even if you're doing that,
00:11:25.600 | if you have a stressful life for whatever reason,
00:11:27.760 | even if you're getting that morning sunlight,
00:11:29.200 | which I hope you are, you're getting your exercise,
00:11:31.200 | you're trying to sleep better and more,
00:11:33.980 | as we all should most of the time,
00:11:35.980 | well, then you may be somebody
00:11:38.120 | who wants to take a adaptogen in the form of a supplement,
00:11:43.120 | and the three supplements that can be very effective
00:11:45.420 | in buffering cortisol are ashwagandha,
00:11:49.120 | which I'll talk about first, lion's mane, and chaga.
00:11:52.720 | Lion's mane and chaga are in the fungi group,
00:11:56.520 | so they count as mushrooms.
00:11:57.640 | They are not psychedelic mushrooms.
00:11:58.940 | Let's talk about ashwagandha first.
00:12:00.560 | Ashwagandha is at the top of the list
00:12:02.080 | because it is indeed a very potent adaptogen.
00:12:05.720 | How can I say that?
00:12:06.600 | Well, there are a number of studies now,
00:12:08.600 | including several excellent ones in humans,
00:12:12.040 | that report that taking two doses of 300 milligrams
00:12:16.500 | of ashwagandha per day
00:12:19.360 | can very dramatically buffer cortisol.
00:12:22.720 | So this is something that you would have
00:12:24.320 | a near impossible time accessing from food.
00:12:28.300 | I can't imagine that unless you're cooking
00:12:30.000 | with the very sources of ashwagandha
00:12:32.240 | and extracting exact amounts that you'd be able to get this
00:12:34.960 | in any other form except a supplement form.
00:12:37.600 | So here, I'm going to just briefly reference a paper
00:12:39.760 | and we can provide a reference link to this.
00:12:42.180 | That is, this is a paper from 2012
00:12:45.600 | that's had a lot of excellent follow-up papers
00:12:47.740 | that support it.
00:12:48.580 | The title of the paper is
00:12:49.420 | "A Perspective Randomized Double-Blind Placebo-Controlled
00:12:51.680 | Study of Safety and Efficacy of High Concentration
00:12:54.360 | of Full-Spectrum Extract of Ashwagandha Root
00:12:56.480 | in Reducing Stress and Anxiety in Adults."
00:12:59.760 | And it's a really nice study, not a huge subject pool,
00:13:02.400 | but both men and women, and it's carried out for long enough
00:13:05.020 | that they got to see some really interesting results.
00:13:06.960 | And I think that the most interesting result
00:13:10.620 | is that taking 300 milligrams of ashwagandha twice a day
00:13:15.560 | led to enormous, I mean, just enormous changes
00:13:19.300 | in serum cortisol.
00:13:21.140 | The statistical significance that they observed
00:13:23.400 | in the study was really fantastic,
00:13:25.900 | fantastically high statistical significance.
00:13:29.920 | They saw the effects of ashwagandha on day 15,
00:13:33.980 | having initiated the ashwagandha consumption
00:13:37.380 | on day one, of course, day 30 and day 45.
00:13:40.480 | And again, this was dramatic reductions in stress
00:13:44.300 | as perceived by people.
00:13:45.500 | So subjective stress and cortisol levels.
00:13:47.780 | So ashwagandha is very potent at reducing cortisol.
00:13:50.400 | How would you recapitulate this
00:13:52.520 | if you wanted to use ashwagandha to buffer stress?
00:13:54.860 | Well, a couple of key points.
00:13:56.320 | Mentioned earlier that you want your cortisol peak
00:13:59.060 | to come earlier in the day.
00:14:00.840 | Therefore, you would not want to buffer cortisol
00:14:03.980 | early in the day.
00:14:04.820 | In fact, cortisol peaking early in the day
00:14:07.700 | provides an anti-inflammatory, immune-supporting focus
00:14:13.340 | and mood-supporting effect all day long.
00:14:16.220 | So I would recommend that people take their first dose
00:14:18.820 | of ashwagandha of anywhere from 250 to 300 milligrams
00:14:23.020 | sometime in the early afternoon.
00:14:24.500 | And again, in the evening,
00:14:26.560 | as opposed to taking a morning dose and an afternoon dose.
00:14:29.460 | Also, if you're somebody who's exercising
00:14:32.180 | for sake of trying to induce adaptations like hypertrophy,
00:14:35.380 | the growth of muscles or strength,
00:14:37.020 | or improve your endurance in any way, muscular endurance
00:14:39.600 | or more traditional cardiovascular endurance,
00:14:42.660 | then I recommend that you not take your ashwagandha
00:14:45.900 | prior to exercise because part of the adaptation response
00:14:49.300 | is triggered by increases in cortisol during exercise.
00:14:52.980 | Sort of in the same way that some of the best adaptations
00:14:57.320 | to exercise are reductions in blood pressure
00:14:59.180 | and resting heart rate.
00:15:00.380 | And those are stimulated by increases in blood pressure
00:15:03.860 | and increases in heart rate during exercise.
00:15:05.980 | That's just how these biological systems work.
00:15:07.800 | So the takeaway is pretty simple.
00:15:09.720 | If you're interested in using ashwagandha as an adaptogen,
00:15:12.780 | I would restrict it to later in the day if you can
00:15:14.760 | and not before exercise.
00:15:16.280 | Divide it into two doses of 250 to 300 milligrams.
00:15:20.060 | That's what this paper and other papers like it
00:15:23.200 | seem to indicate.
00:15:24.040 | And then a very important final point about ashwagandha,
00:15:27.380 | which is that if you're going to take ashwagandha,
00:15:29.280 | I recommend not taking it for longer than a month and a half
00:15:32.920 | as they did in this study.
00:15:33.880 | In fact, I would suggest that you only take ashwagandha
00:15:36.760 | around periods of kind of moderate to extreme stress.
00:15:41.040 | What's moderate, what's extreme is going to depend
00:15:43.080 | on what you're going through.
00:15:44.360 | Only you know how much stress
00:15:45.800 | and life events you can tolerate.
00:15:47.280 | So if you've had trouble sleeping and that's unusual for you
00:15:50.400 | or you're dealing with a very difficult life circumstances
00:15:53.360 | or excessive work demand or a new kid,
00:15:56.240 | as I mentioned before,
00:15:57.080 | well then buffering stress with ashwagandha,
00:15:59.360 | buffering cortisol in the afternoon and evening
00:16:01.800 | can be very beneficial for you.
00:16:03.100 | But then I would say after about 30 days maximum,
00:16:07.060 | I would take at least two to four weeks off.
00:16:09.900 | Two weeks is probably enough, but four weeks off
00:16:11.620 | because you don't want to chronically buffer cortisol.
00:16:15.520 | It's just not a good idea.
00:16:16.940 | But that said,
00:16:17.780 | I think ashwagandha is a very powerful adaptogen.
00:16:20.260 | I would place at the top of the list
00:16:22.180 | of supplement-based adaptogens.
00:16:23.940 | But keep in mind that even if you're taking
00:16:26.180 | a supplement-based adaptogen,
00:16:27.400 | that's no reason to abandon the nutrition
00:16:30.440 | and behavioral type adaptogenic effects
00:16:32.860 | that you can create through eating dark leafy greens,
00:16:34.800 | cruciferous vegetables.
00:16:35.740 | Then we'll talk about the behaviors in a moment.
00:16:37.420 | The other two supplement-based adaptogens, as I mentioned,
00:16:39.940 | are lion's mane mushroom and chaga.
00:16:42.300 | And I get asked a lot about lion's mane and chaga
00:16:44.900 | for sake of their purported roles in acting as nootropics,
00:16:49.900 | as quote unquote, smart drugs.
00:16:52.520 | There are fewer data on the beneficial roles
00:16:56.260 | of lion's mane and chaga for sake of nootropic effects.
00:17:00.800 | We'll do an entire episode on nootropics at some point,
00:17:03.280 | but there have been a few studies showing
00:17:05.740 | that lion's mane and supplementation
00:17:07.560 | and chaga supplementation can improve memory
00:17:10.580 | and maybe even divergent thinking associated with creativity
00:17:14.400 | and things of that sort.
00:17:15.240 | Again, these are not psychedelic mushrooms.
00:17:17.880 | That said, there are good data showing
00:17:20.600 | that 1,000 milligrams,
00:17:22.600 | that is one gram of lion's mane per day,
00:17:25.000 | and/or, okay, these,
00:17:28.240 | we'll talk about the and/or portion in a moment,
00:17:30.480 | and/or chaga mushroom at 500 to 1500 milligrams per day
00:17:35.480 | can act as adaptogens in, again, reducing cortisol,
00:17:41.360 | but also and mainly reducing
00:17:44.240 | some of the anti-inflammatory cytokines
00:17:46.200 | that are known to circulate in high abundance
00:17:48.560 | when you're under a lot of psychological
00:17:50.360 | and/or physical stress,
00:17:51.760 | things like interleukin-6 and some related molecules.
00:17:55.360 | So here's what I would recommend.
00:17:56.920 | If you are interested in exploring adaptogens,
00:17:59.680 | I'm a big fan, as some of you probably know,
00:18:01.680 | if you heard that episode
00:18:02.980 | on "Rational Guide to Supplementation,"
00:18:04.640 | I'm a big fan of mainly focusing on taking supplements
00:18:08.440 | in single ingredient formulations
00:18:10.580 | so that you can figure out what dosages are best for you
00:18:14.080 | and so that you can toggle in and out
00:18:15.960 | those adaptogens as needed.
00:18:17.960 | So I, of course, am a fan of taking certain blends
00:18:20.720 | and mixes, the one that we talk about a lot on this podcast,
00:18:23.800 | and I've been a sponsor from the beginning,
00:18:25.420 | I've taken for a decade now,
00:18:27.120 | long before I ever had a podcast,
00:18:28.680 | is Athletic Greens, which some of you might note
00:18:31.080 | does contain some ashwagandha,
00:18:32.600 | although the levels of ashwagandha
00:18:34.140 | that are contained in Athletic Greens are low enough
00:18:36.440 | that I don't see any issue
00:18:37.600 | with taking Athletic Greens consistently,
00:18:40.580 | day to day, every day,
00:18:42.280 | because you're not getting anywhere near
00:18:43.680 | that 600 milligram dosage.
00:18:45.580 | But the idea is that if you are going to take any adaptogen,
00:18:50.200 | forsake a buffering stress over the short term,
00:18:52.500 | say for a week or two weeks or a month,
00:18:55.120 | and then taking that recommended time off,
00:18:57.280 | I would start with ashwagandha,
00:18:59.320 | and then if you feel you need something else
00:19:01.600 | to buffer stress, keeping in mind, of course,
00:19:04.080 | that you're doing the behavioral and the nutritional things
00:19:06.000 | to buffer stress as well, you can never abandon those, right?
00:19:08.560 | Well, then I would suggest adding 1,000 milligrams
00:19:11.080 | or 1,000 milligrams of chaga per day
00:19:13.820 | and seeing how that further benefits your system
00:19:17.920 | in terms of buffering stress.
00:19:19.020 | How would you measure if your stress is being reduced?
00:19:21.320 | Well, you're going to be sleeping better at night,
00:19:23.420 | you're going to feel subjectively better,
00:19:25.080 | lower levels of anxiety,
00:19:26.400 | all the things that are measured in the types of studies
00:19:28.320 | I described before.
00:19:30.000 | Now, of course, there's nothing preventing you
00:19:32.540 | from taking 600 milligrams of ashwagandha,
00:19:34.760 | a gram of lion's mane and a gram of chaga.
00:19:36.800 | I know some people like to just kind of go full tilt
00:19:39.400 | into everything, but I am a big believer
00:19:41.480 | in really trying to isolate which supplements
00:19:44.680 | and molecules work best for you and which ones don't.
00:19:47.880 | Do you need to cycle on and off lion's mane and chaga?
00:19:51.280 | I'm not aware of any data showing that you do.
00:19:53.520 | If, however, you're taking them every day,
00:19:55.840 | I recommend that you cycle off them
00:19:57.560 | after a period of 30 days or so.
00:20:00.080 | And I want to be very clear about this,
00:20:01.640 | just because I said cycle off
00:20:02.840 | after a period of 30 days or so
00:20:04.200 | does not mean that you can't take them
00:20:06.280 | for a shorter period of time.
00:20:07.840 | So for instance, if you know that you're coming up
00:20:09.640 | on a big week of stress,
00:20:11.820 | well then you could take ashwagandha and/or lion's mane
00:20:16.760 | and/or chaga for that week or just that week
00:20:19.920 | or heading into that week or in the following week
00:20:21.600 | and then stop.
00:20:22.440 | There's no reason why you couldn't take them
00:20:23.320 | even just for one day,
00:20:24.280 | although the effects tend to be a bit cumulative,
00:20:27.200 | at least when we're talking about buffering anxiety.
00:20:30.860 | In terms of buffering cortisol,
00:20:32.000 | that's a very potent effect that as far as we know
00:20:34.200 | is going to take place on day one.
00:20:35.740 | Again, keep that cortisol buffering effect
00:20:38.140 | away from exercise.
00:20:40.200 | At least don't take it before exercise
00:20:42.480 | and try and buffer your cortisol
00:20:44.440 | in the afternoon and evening.
00:20:45.760 | And this is assuming that you're working
00:20:47.000 | a conventional shift and you're not up all night
00:20:49.320 | and sleeping all day for sake of shift work.
00:20:52.120 | Okay, so hopefully that clarifies things
00:20:53.980 | about what adaptogens are.
00:20:55.380 | In fact, I never actually read the specific question,
00:20:57.800 | but I think I've touched on a number of issues
00:21:01.180 | that relate to the specific question.
00:21:02.680 | And then I'll answer the last portion
00:21:04.100 | of the answer to this question in a moment
00:21:06.240 | as it relates to behavioral tools
00:21:08.820 | that can act as adaptogens.
00:21:10.500 | The question itself was there's a lot of mixed information
00:21:13.160 | out there about adaptogens like ashwagandha.
00:21:15.220 | I think that relates to what I said earlier,
00:21:16.600 | which is that the definition of an adaptogen
00:21:18.760 | has not really been cemented in various communities.
00:21:23.660 | It's different in different communities
00:21:25.200 | and it's generally used as a matter of convenience
00:21:28.740 | rather than really strictly defining what it is.
00:21:30.800 | And hopefully we've defined it accurately
00:21:34.040 | and broadly enough today as something that buffers stress.
00:21:38.160 | The second part of the question was
00:21:39.520 | what does the scientific evidence say about adaptogens
00:21:41.520 | and their ability to mediate body stress response?
00:21:44.100 | They say quite a lot and they say that the stress response
00:21:47.760 | can be buffered substantially by certain adaptogens,
00:21:51.280 | mainly dark leafy greens, cruciferous vegetables,
00:21:54.680 | ashwagandha, lion's mane, and chaga,
00:21:57.860 | and of course all the behavioral things
00:21:59.440 | that are critical to what we'll list off in a moment.
00:22:01.420 | And then the third portion of the question is
00:22:02.960 | is there any solid evidence that has an effect
00:22:04.620 | on neurotransmitters or the HPA,
00:22:07.200 | which is part of the stress modulation axis?
00:22:10.460 | The best evidence is that adaptogens
00:22:12.540 | can reduce cortisol itself.
00:22:15.300 | There is very little evidence that adaptogens
00:22:17.820 | can directly modulate neurotransmitters
00:22:20.420 | or neuromodulators like dopamine, serotonin, et cetera.
00:22:23.680 | But by adjusting the timing and levels of cortisol,
00:22:26.500 | especially in the afternoon and evening,
00:22:28.580 | that is going to have indirect effects
00:22:32.240 | on levels of dopamine, norepinephrine, et cetera,
00:22:35.100 | and serotonin, but not direct effects.
00:22:37.620 | So the general contour that makes
00:22:39.880 | for an ideal diurnal schedule, you heard of nocturnal?
00:22:42.780 | Well, the opposite is diurnal,
00:22:44.260 | being awake during the daytime and asleep at night.
00:22:45.900 | The ideal kind of landscape of neurotransmitters
00:22:48.720 | is higher levels of dopamine, norepinephrine,
00:22:51.880 | and epinephrine in the early part of the day,
00:22:53.500 | and cortisol, so-called catecholamines,
00:22:55.700 | dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine,
00:22:57.900 | and high levels of cortisol early in the day
00:23:00.900 | as directed by sunlight, exercise, caffeine,
00:23:03.780 | hydration, movement, all that stuff,
00:23:05.740 | being awake and busy and outside
00:23:07.280 | or indoors with bright lights
00:23:08.980 | and moving about in the early part of the day
00:23:10.860 | and into the early afternoon.
00:23:11.860 | That's the best possible way that we are aware of
00:23:14.360 | to try and get those catecholamines released
00:23:16.180 | at the highest levels in the early part of the day.
00:23:17.980 | And then the ideal contour of a 24-hour cycle
00:23:21.040 | will be in the later half of the day,
00:23:22.400 | the evening and nighttime,
00:23:23.960 | you have higher levels of things like serotonin,
00:23:26.800 | the GABAergic system,
00:23:27.860 | all the things that are somewhat sedative
00:23:29.720 | in preparing you for sleep,
00:23:31.380 | and lower levels of the catecholamines and cortisol,
00:23:34.660 | as I described before.
00:23:35.840 | So to directly answer the question,
00:23:37.460 | is there any evidence that adaptogens
00:23:39.020 | can alter your neurotransmitters?
00:23:41.240 | Yes, but only indirectly.
00:23:43.420 | And yet that indirect control over neurotransmitters
00:23:46.520 | is substantial and is important.
00:23:48.720 | And if you do what I described,
00:23:50.200 | such as getting morning sunlight,
00:23:51.440 | and ideally you'd get a little bit
00:23:52.880 | of deliberate cold water exposure, by the way,
00:23:54.620 | to boost adrenaline and norepinephrine and dopamine,
00:23:57.620 | those catecholamines, early in the day.
00:23:59.480 | So quick one-minute cold shower even,
00:24:01.600 | or three-minute cold shower,
00:24:03.200 | if you have access to an ice bath early in the day,
00:24:05.220 | plus some sunlight, doesn't matter which one you do first,
00:24:07.740 | doing that early in the day
00:24:08.680 | is really going to create that peak
00:24:10.680 | of cortisol, dopamine, epinephrine early in the day.
00:24:14.120 | I can't emphasize how beneficial all of that can be.
00:24:17.000 | And exercise, if you can, early in the day.
00:24:19.620 | Some people can't exercise till later in the day.
00:24:21.320 | I'd rather see people exercise later in the day
00:24:23.420 | than not at all, provided it does not disrupt
00:24:25.640 | their nighttime sleep, which of course,
00:24:27.560 | sleep is the foundation of mental health,
00:24:29.160 | physical health, and performance.
00:24:30.680 | So yes, there's modulation of neurotransmitters,
00:24:33.280 | but most of those are downstream of the effects on cortisol
00:24:35.560 | that we've been talking about.
00:24:36.680 | So we've defined nutritional adaptogens,
00:24:39.280 | supplement-based adaptogens,
00:24:40.920 | although I don't really like the word supplements anymore,
00:24:43.520 | unless we're talking about vitamin supplements
00:24:45.280 | for reasons we talked about earlier.
00:24:46.960 | And then there's the third category of adaptogens,
00:24:49.020 | which are the behavioral tools that you can use
00:24:51.120 | to buffer stress, which qualifies those as an adaptogen.
00:24:54.120 | And I think it's really important
00:24:55.600 | that we always keep in mind that yes, there are supplements.
00:24:58.080 | Yes, there are prescription drugs out there.
00:24:59.520 | In fact, there are prescription drugs
00:25:01.360 | that you can get from a doctor
00:25:03.400 | that will potently zero out your cortisol.
00:25:07.040 | But most doctors are very reluctant
00:25:08.700 | to prescribe those drugs because cortisol provides
00:25:11.540 | a very important and functional role early in the day.
00:25:15.040 | Behaviors are very effective at reducing cortisol.
00:25:18.020 | What are the most effective behaviors to reduce cortisol?
00:25:20.620 | Well, we talked about one,
00:25:22.840 | to restrict cortisol the early part of the day,
00:25:25.460 | which is viewing morning sunlight,
00:25:27.240 | but how would you buffer cortisol in the late afternoon?
00:25:29.960 | It's going to be all the things associated
00:25:31.660 | with reducing stress.
00:25:32.980 | For instance, 10 minutes, or even my laboratory
00:25:37.340 | and other laboratories have shown
00:25:38.580 | it's even five minutes a day of just what would be called
00:25:41.740 | mindfulness meditation, very simple.
00:25:43.520 | You don't need to over-complicate this.
00:25:44.820 | You could use a great app like the Waking Up app
00:25:47.100 | or another app of that sort,
00:25:48.800 | or you can simply sit down, eyes closed,
00:25:50.960 | breathe through your nose
00:25:51.800 | and just concentrate on your breathing
00:25:53.120 | every time your mind drifts to something else,
00:25:54.840 | bring it back to your breathing.
00:25:56.320 | That's shown to reduce stress.
00:25:58.520 | You could do a five minute deliberate breath work practice.
00:26:01.320 | My laboratory has published some work related to that.
00:26:04.280 | The breath work practice could be any number of things.
00:26:07.600 | The two that I recommend the most would be double inhale,
00:26:10.680 | followed by a full exhale,
00:26:12.160 | and then repeat for a period of five minutes,
00:26:13.800 | known to substantially reduce anxiety, stress,
00:26:16.540 | and the various physiological systems
00:26:18.220 | associated with arousal.
00:26:19.560 | You could also use box breathing.
00:26:21.160 | Inhale, hold, exhale, hold for equal durations
00:26:23.860 | for a period of five minutes
00:26:25.240 | will substantially reduce stress.
00:26:27.040 | I'm a big fan, as many of you know, of yoga nidra,
00:26:29.440 | which involves no movement.
00:26:30.800 | It involves just lying there, listening to a script,
00:26:32.840 | lots of yoga nidra scripts available online.
00:26:35.580 | If you're not interested in the intentions
00:26:37.780 | and other things, including yoga nidra,
00:26:39.220 | you can buffer stress using an adaptogen
00:26:41.940 | like NSDR, non-sleep deep rest.
00:26:44.060 | If you're interested in trying these sorts of things,
00:26:46.540 | there's a NSDR protocol that's 10 minutes long.
00:26:50.460 | Just put my name, Huberman, and NSDR
00:26:53.740 | into the search browser on YouTube,
00:26:55.540 | and Virtusan has provided an NSDR
00:26:58.720 | that's completely zero cost
00:27:00.080 | and works very well for reducing stress.
00:27:02.100 | It will also help teach your system
00:27:04.080 | and teach you how to learn to fall asleep better at night.
00:27:07.080 | So any of those practices,
00:27:08.520 | five to 10 minute breathing practice or meditation
00:27:11.440 | or a NSDR or yoga nidra.
00:27:14.880 | I mean, if you can do longer,
00:27:15.800 | 20 or 30 minutes in the afternoon,
00:27:17.280 | that's known to buffer cortisol substantially as well.
00:27:21.280 | Anytime you're encountering stress in real time,
00:27:23.480 | I highly recommend a tool over and over
00:27:25.960 | because it's so effective.
00:27:26.940 | The fastest way we know to buffer stress and calm down
00:27:29.440 | is the so-called physiological sigh.
00:27:31.520 | Big inhale through the nose until your lungs are empty,
00:27:34.400 | but then sneak in a little bit more air by a second inhale,
00:27:38.320 | maximally inflate the lungs,
00:27:39.380 | then a long exhale until your lungs are empty.
00:27:41.600 | One to three of those will reduce your stress substantially.
00:27:45.200 | Over time, that should reduce, that is,
00:27:47.540 | buffer your cortisol acting as an adaptogen.
00:27:50.040 | There are a lot of things.
00:27:50.880 | You could take a hot bath, you could take a hot shower,
00:27:52.360 | you can listen to some pleasant music.
00:27:54.360 | Anything that reduces your stress
00:27:55.940 | technically is an adaptogen.
00:27:57.320 | So I hope I've thoroughly answered your question.
00:28:00.080 | By yours, I mean, of course,
00:28:01.800 | this answer is going out to all of you.
00:28:03.040 | This is a question that was asked by Justine Bevilacqua.
00:28:06.040 | I hope I pronounced that correctly, Justine.
00:28:08.040 | And thank you for that question.
00:28:09.200 | I think there are a lot of people interested in adaptogens.
00:28:11.440 | So now you know you can use nutrition,
00:28:13.560 | such as cruciferous vegetables, dark leafy greens.
00:28:16.680 | And I should also mention,
00:28:18.000 | if you're not ingesting enough calories each day,
00:28:21.360 | well, then you are going to be in a mild mode of stress.
00:28:24.900 | That's not to say that some people
00:28:26.200 | shouldn't take in fewer calories than they burn
00:28:28.680 | in order to lose weight.
00:28:30.120 | Some people really need to do that for their health
00:28:31.860 | or for whatever other reason.
00:28:33.280 | But if you restrict calories too much,
00:28:34.800 | you are going to increase cortisol output.
00:28:37.520 | So keep that in mind.
00:28:38.840 | So ingest sufficient calories for you and for your goals.
00:28:43.300 | Aim to get dark leafy greens and cruciferous vegetables.
00:28:46.080 | Don't overcook them.
00:28:47.840 | If you want to explore supplements,
00:28:49.400 | the best supplements that act as adaptogens
00:28:51.480 | are going to be ashwagandha, lion's mane, and chaga.
00:28:54.800 | One or two or three of those,
00:28:57.520 | although if you're going to pick one,
00:28:59.200 | I'd recommend ashwagandha at 600 milligrams per day,
00:29:01.680 | taken in the later half of the day.
00:29:03.120 | And then there are the behavioral tools
00:29:05.080 | that we just talked about now,
00:29:06.080 | which are anything that reduces stress can reduce cortisol.
00:29:10.580 | And in doing so are technically adaptogens.
00:29:13.460 | If you want to know more behavioral tools and other tools
00:29:15.800 | for adjusting stress and learn more about adaptogens,
00:29:18.160 | we did a whole episode called Mastering Stress.
00:29:20.880 | So you can look to that.
00:29:21.960 | That episode also pretty clearly defines, I like to think,
00:29:25.380 | what short-term, medium-term, and long-term stress
00:29:27.740 | really are.
00:29:28.580 | Keep in mind, stress is part of life.
00:29:29.880 | Learning how to work with it, how to dance with it,
00:29:31.860 | how to buffer it is terrific,
00:29:33.500 | but zeroing out cortisol is not the goal.
00:29:36.260 | The goal is to learn to modulate and control your cortisol.
00:29:39.940 | And that's really what adaptogens are all about.
00:29:42.460 | Thank you for joining for the beginning
00:29:44.020 | of this Ask Me Anything episode.
00:29:45.960 | To hear the full episode and to hear future episodes
00:29:49.340 | of these Ask Me Anything sessions,
00:29:50.940 | plus to receive transcripts of them
00:29:53.220 | and transcripts of the Huberman Lab Podcast
00:29:55.420 | Standard Channel and premium tools
00:29:58.020 | not released anywhere else,
00:29:59.440 | please go to hubermanlab.com/premium.
00:30:02.580 | Just to remind you why we launched
00:30:03.780 | the Huberman Lab Podcast Premium Channel,
00:30:05.980 | it's really twofold.
00:30:06.860 | First of all, it's to raise support
00:30:08.780 | for the Standard Huberman Lab Podcast Channel,
00:30:11.260 | which of course will still be continued to be released
00:30:14.300 | every Monday in full length.
00:30:15.980 | We are not going to change the format
00:30:17.380 | or anything about the Standard Huberman Lab Podcast,
00:30:20.980 | and to fund research.
00:30:22.420 | In particular, research done on human beings,
00:30:24.460 | so not animal models, but on human beings,
00:30:26.500 | which I think we all agree is a species
00:30:28.300 | that we are most interested in.
00:30:30.500 | And we are going to specifically fund research
00:30:33.500 | that is aimed toward developing further protocols
00:30:36.140 | for mental health, physical health, and performance.
00:30:38.180 | And those protocols will be distributed
00:30:40.080 | through all channels, not just the premium channel,
00:30:42.500 | but through all channels, Huberman Lab Podcast
00:30:44.180 | and other media channels.
00:30:45.500 | So the idea here is to give you information
00:30:48.080 | to your burning questions in depth
00:30:50.260 | and allow you the opportunity to support the kind of research
00:30:53.460 | that provides those kinds of answers in the first place.
00:30:56.200 | Now, an especially exciting feature of the premium channel
00:30:58.540 | is that the tiny foundation has generously offered
00:31:01.500 | to do a dollar for dollar match on all funds
00:31:03.860 | raised for research through the premium channel.
00:31:06.780 | So this is a terrific way that they're going to amplify
00:31:09.380 | whatever funds come in through the premium channel
00:31:11.340 | to further support research for science
00:31:13.420 | and science related tools for mental health,
00:31:15.180 | physical health, and performance.
00:31:16.700 | If you'd like to sign up
00:31:17.540 | for the Huberman Lab Premium Channel,
00:31:19.300 | again, there's a cost of $10 per month,
00:31:21.380 | or you can pay $100 upfront for the entire year.
00:31:24.140 | That will give you access to all the AMAs.
00:31:26.480 | You can ask questions and get answers to your questions.
00:31:29.380 | And you'll, of course, get answers to all the questions
00:31:31.980 | that other people ask as well.
00:31:33.340 | There will also be some premium content,
00:31:35.280 | such as transcripts of the AMAs
00:31:37.100 | and various transcripts and protocols
00:31:39.000 | of Huberman Lab Podcast episodes not found elsewhere.
00:31:42.220 | And again, you'll be supporting research
00:31:44.540 | for mental health, physical health, and performance.
00:31:46.900 | You can sign up for the premium channel
00:31:48.300 | by going to HubermanLab.com/premium.
00:31:50.980 | Again, that's HubermanLab.com/premium.
00:31:53.860 | And as always, thank you for your interest in science.
00:31:56.720 | (upbeat music)
00:31:59.300 | (upbeat music)