Bassem Youssef: Israel-Palestine, Gaza, Hamas, Middle East, Satire & Fame

00:00:00.000 | If I hate you, that's great,

00:00:01.500 | but if I have a story to support that hate,

00:00:03.300 | ah, that's even better.

00:00:04.560 | - One of your favorite words, jihad.

00:00:07.360 | (laughing)

00:00:09.220 | - That's my favorite hobbies.

00:00:10.860 | It doesn't matter now who do you vote into power,

00:00:14.760 | they will not listen to you,

00:00:16.060 | they would listen to the people who paid them to be there.

00:00:18.740 | When the military came in,

00:00:20.260 | people were walking to me like,

00:00:22.340 | pointing their fingers like,

00:00:23.300 | don't speak about CCU, don't speak about the army.

00:00:25.820 | We love you now, but don't you, they were like that.

00:00:29.220 | So I called Jon Stewart, I was like,

00:00:30.340 | I don't know what to do.

00:00:31.340 | And he said the most interesting thing ever.

00:00:35.460 | And say, if you're afraid of something,

00:00:37.720 | make fun about the fact that you're afraid of it.

00:00:41.060 | The following is a conversation with Bassem Youssef,

00:00:47.020 | a legendary Egyptian American comedian,

00:00:49.820 | the so-called Jon Stewart of the Middle East,

00:00:52.900 | who fearlessly satirized those in power,

00:00:56.340 | even when his job and life were on the line.

00:00:59.660 | Bassem is a beautiful human being.

00:01:02.040 | It was truly a pleasure for me to get to know him

00:01:05.220 | and to have this fun, fascinating

00:01:08.340 | and challenging conversation.

00:01:11.020 | This is Alex Friedman Podcast.

00:01:13.060 | To support it, please check out our sponsors

00:01:14.940 | in the description.

00:01:16.220 | And now, dear friends, here's Bassem Youssef.

00:01:20.020 | Your wife is half Palestinian,

00:01:23.620 | and I've heard you say that you've been trying to kill her,

00:01:26.540 | but she keeps using the kids as human shields.

00:01:28.420 | So have you considered negotiating a ceasefire?

00:01:31.800 | - Well, the thing is, every day,

00:01:34.340 | every minute of the day in a married life is a negotiation.

00:01:38.540 | Everything can blow up into a full-scale war,

00:01:42.460 | starting from a simple sentence like, good morning.

00:01:45.580 | What should we do with the kids today?

00:01:47.780 | What should we do with that piece of furniture?

00:01:50.620 | Any sentence can lead you to heaven

00:01:53.180 | or to hell in the same time.

00:01:54.620 | - So you do negotiate with terrorists?

00:01:56.140 | - Oh, yeah, yeah, 100%.

00:01:56.980 | - You must? - Yeah.

00:01:58.060 | And for her, I am her terrorist, too, so it's equal.

00:02:01.460 | - Terrorists on both sides.

00:02:03.660 | On a more serious note,

00:02:04.700 | when you found out about the attacks of October 7th,

00:02:07.220 | what went through your mind?

00:02:08.540 | - If I'm allowed to use a curse word, I was like--

00:02:11.420 | - As many as possible.

00:02:12.260 | - I was like, oh, shit.

00:02:13.820 | Part of my stand-up comedy is I describe a situation

00:02:17.300 | where I was in a restaurant with producers,

00:02:20.040 | and there was a bombing two blocks away

00:02:22.060 | in Chelsea, New York, in 2016.

00:02:25.360 | And, of course, this is the like,

00:02:28.540 | damn, what's gonna happen to us now?

00:02:30.980 | And there's like two different reactions.

00:02:33.460 | There's the white reaction, which is like,

00:02:34.940 | oh, my God, I hope nobody is hurt.

00:02:36.260 | This is terrible, I hope everybody's okay.

00:02:37.900 | And there's the Arab reaction, what's his name?

00:02:39.620 | What is his name?

00:02:40.460 | What is the name, you know?

00:02:41.820 | Because you know what's gonna come?

00:02:44.260 | It's kind of, I was scared what's gonna really happen

00:02:49.460 | in that area, and it's like, oh, my God,

00:02:51.120 | it's gonna be horrible.

00:02:52.080 | And the way that it was reported,

00:02:54.380 | I didn't know how to handle this.

00:02:58.360 | So I basically, I went into hiding for a few days,

00:03:01.560 | three, four days, and I talked about Piers Morgan team

00:03:06.000 | talking to me two times, three times.

00:03:07.880 | I was like, no, I can't, how can I defend that?

00:03:09.680 | How can you defend the rape, the decapitated babies,

00:03:11.680 | and whatever?

00:03:12.520 | And then I started kind of looking in the news a little bit,

00:03:14.720 | and then I started seeing people coming on the shows

00:03:18.000 | and saying things that I know as an Arab, as a Muslim,

00:03:20.940 | as someone from that region, that it's not true.

00:03:24.560 | But I didn't know how to, what to say, how to say it.

00:03:30.060 | So I said, by the third time when they asked me,

00:03:31.980 | I said like, fine, put me on.

00:03:34.220 | And I went there, it was more of a, figuratively speaking,

00:03:38.540 | a suicide mission, because it's a lose-lose situation.

00:03:43.540 | I can lose stuff in Hollywood.

00:03:45.340 | I can, I even, I remember my managers like,

00:03:47.700 | Bassem, be careful, I mean, are you sure you wanna do it?

00:03:51.740 | My managers was like, please don't do it, please don't do it.

00:03:54.660 | And on the other side, if I don't perform well,

00:03:57.660 | whatever well means, I'm gonna be rejected by my own people.

00:04:02.660 | So it was a lose-lose situation,

00:04:04.900 | because whatever I say, it will never be enough,

00:04:06.740 | and whatever I say will not be good enough.

00:04:09.220 | And I was going into there, and I felt that I was going

00:04:14.260 | into a trance for the 33 minutes that I was on the,

00:04:18.700 | on that interview for the first time.

00:04:20.180 | - You blacked out. - I blacked out.

00:04:21.980 | I blacked out, and a lot of people ask me,

00:04:23.940 | is the earpiece, was that a bit,

00:04:26.900 | when the earpiece kept falling, it's like,

00:04:28.540 | no, it was really falling off, and it disconnected,

00:04:32.340 | and I had to save it, because I cannot see them,

00:04:34.980 | all I can hear, I can just hear them,

00:04:37.460 | and I could expect it at any time,

00:04:39.060 | okay, Bassem, thank you, and it's like,

00:04:40.620 | I was fighting for every second to say words,

00:04:43.900 | to put stuff in there.

00:04:44.900 | - Yeah, for people who don't know,

00:04:45.860 | this is your conversation interview with Piers Morgan,

00:04:50.040 | and you couldn't see.

00:04:51.780 | - I couldn't see, I was just like,

00:04:52.660 | that lens with the camera, and I was just like--

00:04:54.500 | - It was like a surreal dream or nightmare.

00:04:56.140 | - Yeah, hello, Bassem, I was like, hello, Bassem,

00:04:58.140 | I was like, hi. (laughs)

00:04:59.700 | - And it could end at any moment,

00:05:01.540 | your career and everything.

00:05:02.780 | - Everything, yeah, yeah.

00:05:04.340 | - So what was the drive that got you to actually do it,

00:05:08.380 | to overcome that fear?

00:05:10.640 | - Multiple things.

00:05:12.060 | First of all, I don't wanna say it's just my wife's family,

00:05:15.940 | because my wife's family has always been there,

00:05:17.500 | but this time was different.

00:05:18.740 | The bombing, the attack, they usually,

00:05:22.700 | one of those people that they're away for everything,

00:05:25.020 | whatever happened in Gaza, they are always in safe places,

00:05:27.420 | but this time, it seems that there was no place safe,

00:05:30.160 | and already we heard about two or three of the cousins

00:05:35.160 | and the uncles already lost their home,

00:05:37.980 | so this was too much.

00:05:39.100 | So I wanted to say something for those people,

00:05:43.540 | because I know that, one of the jokes that I made,

00:05:47.540 | I was like, oh, it's Hassan, her cousin, he's a loser.

00:05:51.180 | He's a doctor, he's a doctor.

00:05:53.540 | And he, every time a hospital was bombed,

00:05:56.780 | we were worried about him.

00:05:58.740 | So I wanted to say that because I felt that these are,

00:06:02.100 | this is a family that I have never seen in my life.

00:06:04.580 | I have never, she actually hardly saw an uncle or two,

00:06:07.660 | because they cannot leave.

00:06:09.580 | But I said, I need to speak, at least I do something

00:06:14.820 | for those extended family that I have never known,

00:06:17.660 | but also because when Piers Morgan team

00:06:22.660 | called me a couple of times and said,

00:06:24.060 | okay, let's see what's going on in the show,

00:06:26.140 | and I just watched the stuff, and the lies,

00:06:29.220 | and the one-sided reporting, that made my blood boil.

00:06:33.580 | And then I thought, what am I afraid of?

00:06:36.780 | I'm afraid of, if I say something,

00:06:39.740 | I can lose my career, it's like, wait a minute.

00:06:41.820 | But that was the reason why I left Egypt.

00:06:44.540 | I said, wait, I left Egypt, I came to United States.

00:06:46.980 | I came to a land of the free,

00:06:48.300 | where I can say anything I want.

00:06:50.140 | And yet I have limitation of what to say.

00:06:52.940 | I mean, I thought we left that shit behind.

00:06:55.740 | I mean, what's happening?

00:06:56.980 | And I understand, I understand the connection

00:06:59.140 | of how sensitive it is when you speak about Israel,

00:07:03.180 | and all of the ready-made accusations.

00:07:06.380 | But as an Arab, as a Muslim,

00:07:08.620 | I don't react the same when you talk about Saudi Arabia,

00:07:11.420 | or Iran, or Egypt, or any of them.

00:07:12.980 | It's like, hey, you wanna diss some of these countries?

00:07:16.060 | I'll do that with you,

00:07:17.780 | because I have strong opinions about what happened,

00:07:19.660 | and I already been expressing them.

00:07:21.900 | But when I talk, when that's why I speak,

00:07:24.540 | and there's a lot of Jewish people who come to my show,

00:07:26.340 | and they understand that.

00:07:27.340 | They understand the separation.

00:07:30.260 | But that kind of grouping of blackmailing people,

00:07:33.020 | and saying and not saying what they have in their mind,

00:07:35.300 | it is that kind of like one of the things

00:07:37.580 | that kind of like pushed me to go on the show.

00:07:40.700 | - The thing that was bothering you,

00:07:42.060 | was it what was being said, or how it was being said?

00:07:45.940 | - Both.

00:07:47.340 | Because there are lies, which is usually in the media,

00:07:50.340 | but there was the total disregard of humanity.

00:07:54.980 | You talk a lot about, in your show, about human suffering.

00:07:58.260 | And I felt that here, the human suffering was not equal.

00:08:04.140 | I felt, that's why I came up with this,

00:08:05.820 | like what's the exchange rate today?

00:08:07.940 | What's the exchange rate today?

00:08:10.100 | There's, of course, it's terrible to see anybody die,

00:08:14.300 | but I feel that like, isn't our life not worth anything?

00:08:19.300 | - Yeah, you had a chart, akin to crypto,

00:08:24.220 | from an, you analyze it from an investing perspective,

00:08:26.620 | of course, in a dark human kind of way.

00:08:28.020 | - That's the ROI on that.

00:08:29.060 | (both laughing)

00:08:30.860 | - And you were saying that a certain year was a good year.

00:08:34.060 | - Yeah, 2014.

00:08:35.220 | - 2014 was a good year for investment purposes.

00:08:38.540 | And also, to refer to the family member

00:08:41.260 | that you called a loser, you were saying that,

00:08:43.660 | you called him, had a conversation with him,

00:08:46.140 | and he keeps saying that he's not using anybody

00:08:48.420 | for human shields, and you called him a loser.

00:08:50.300 | What are you, you can't even give a job.

00:08:51.780 | - The liar, he lied to us, because I have to believe,

00:08:54.460 | but this is the one thing, it's like,

00:08:56.100 | it's also one of the things, like how it was said.

00:08:59.180 | It was stuff that I've been hearing,

00:09:00.900 | I don't know what turned on in my head,

00:09:03.860 | but it's stuff that I've been hearing

00:09:05.260 | all my life from the media.

00:09:06.900 | Israel warns civilians before bombing them,

00:09:09.740 | and that's okay, but that's not okay.

00:09:12.220 | Israel is trying to minimize the civilians,

00:09:14.940 | but killing them anyway, and that's okay,

00:09:17.140 | but that's not okay.

00:09:18.580 | So it is kind of like the indoctrination

00:09:20.540 | that we've been hearing, as if it is okay,

00:09:23.620 | and then suddenly, it's not.

00:09:27.260 | - Yeah, there's a kind of, several layers of bullshit,

00:09:31.580 | almost sometimes hiding the obvious horror of the situation

00:09:36.580 | with kind of politeness and all this kind of stuff,

00:09:40.540 | just the basic value of human life.

00:09:42.580 | That said, it's a difficult situation.

00:09:44.540 | - It is, it is.

00:09:45.700 | - What would you do if you were Israel?

00:09:47.180 | BB called you, awesome, big fan, big fan of your comedy.

00:09:50.700 | First of all, would you hang up right away?

00:09:53.500 | Would you hear him out?

00:09:54.460 | - No, I would definitely hear him out.

00:09:55.940 | (laughing)

00:09:56.780 | That's like, that was like, wait a minute,

00:09:58.900 | that's material, that's material, man.

00:10:00.900 | (laughing)

00:10:01.740 | It's like, so Netanyahu called me.

00:10:03.340 | (laughing)

00:10:04.900 | I was sitting with my family, just like,

00:10:05.740 | I have my phone ready, like, oh, Netanyahu.

00:10:07.740 | (laughing)

00:10:08.660 | Yeah, it just shows up that way.

00:10:10.740 | I mean, what would you do?

00:10:11.780 | What would you do in this situation?

00:10:13.380 | - To answer this question,

00:10:14.820 | we need to understand how Israel thinks.

00:10:16.740 | There is an incredible speech given by Gideon Levy

00:10:20.500 | at a famous Israeli report in Haaretz,

00:10:24.620 | and he describes a situation

00:10:26.900 | where he was in the West Bank, and there was a checkpoint.

00:10:30.180 | And in that checkpoint, there was an ambulance

00:10:32.460 | with a Palestinian patient,

00:10:34.420 | and it was there sitting for an hour and a half, not moving.

00:10:39.420 | And then he went to talk to the soldiers, like,

00:10:42.540 | guys, why are you not letting them go?

00:10:44.980 | It's like, ah, let them go, it's like,

00:10:46.780 | and then he told them, imagine if he was your father.

00:10:50.540 | And the soldiers stood up, it's like, what?

00:10:54.420 | These are pigs, these are not humans.

00:10:58.620 | So when you tell me, what would you do if Israel would do,

00:11:00.980 | it really needs to, we need to ask,

00:11:02.620 | how does Israel look at the Palestinians

00:11:04.540 | and view the Palestinians,

00:11:05.660 | because they do look at them less than human.

00:11:08.500 | And there is an incredible talk by Mehor Meyer.

00:11:12.420 | He was a Holocaust survivor, and he said,

00:11:15.020 | I learned in Auschwitz when I was there

00:11:16.620 | in the concentration camp that in order for a group,

00:11:18.980 | a dominant group of people to dehumanize another group,

00:11:22.020 | they need first to dehumanize themselves.

00:11:24.380 | And Israel looks at Palestinians as lesser people,

00:11:29.700 | as lesser beings, as some people who are dispensable.

00:11:34.700 | And the way that they treat them

00:11:37.860 | is that they don't really care about,

00:11:40.340 | that's why that the exchange rate thing.

00:11:42.620 | So for me, if I am Israel, it will be like,

00:11:45.300 | what would you do if you're the United States

00:11:47.740 | in the time of the Native Americans?

00:11:49.580 | They were killing people with the millions.

00:11:51.920 | When you dehumanize a group of people, you really don't care.

00:11:54.620 | So if I was Israel, I would do exactly

00:11:57.840 | what Israel is doing right now,

00:11:59.140 | because there's no one who's holding me accountable,

00:12:02.020 | there's no one stopping me,

00:12:03.740 | and I can get whatever I want

00:12:05.660 | throughout my history through violence.

00:12:08.020 | - I think a lot of the things you just said

00:12:09.500 | are a tiny bit slightly exaggerated.

00:12:12.660 | So let me try, let's try. - Please, please, please.

00:12:15.380 | - So not everybody in Israel.

00:12:17.420 | - Of course. - So let's look at

00:12:21.260 | several groups.

00:12:22.220 | So people in government, IDF soldiers,

00:12:26.460 | and citizens that are neither of those.

00:12:30.060 | And not everybody of any of those

00:12:32.620 | sees Palestinians as less than human, just some percentage.

00:12:37.820 | So what percentage is that in your sense?

00:12:39.580 | - It's the people who have the power.

00:12:41.220 | - So it's mostly the focus of your commentary

00:12:44.220 | when you say people in Israel,

00:12:45.460 | you really mean the people in power.

00:12:47.340 | - The people have the power.

00:12:48.900 | But as much as, of course, I mean the people in power,

00:12:51.380 | because when I speak about,

00:12:52.540 | even when I speak about America,

00:12:53.740 | I speak about people in power.

00:12:54.580 | When I speak about Egypt, I speak the people in power,

00:12:56.740 | because I can't really talk about

00:12:58.020 | the 100 million people in Egypt,

00:12:59.500 | or the 11 million people in Israel.

00:13:01.060 | Of course not, there are people who go in

00:13:02.620 | and they demonstrate against Netanyahu

00:13:04.260 | and they want him out of the government.

00:13:05.620 | But we have to admit that the Israeli society,

00:13:08.220 | it at a whole, have moved quite a bit to the right,

00:13:11.700 | and has been many extreme.

00:13:14.100 | And you know what happens when you go to the right,

00:13:16.680 | or you go to the most extreme,

00:13:18.260 | the other person go to the most extreme.

00:13:20.140 | And extremism breeds extremism.

00:13:23.180 | So thank you for the clarification,

00:13:25.220 | but I really meant with the people of power.

00:13:27.820 | When people criticize the United States

00:13:30.020 | for going in Iraq, of course I'm not criticizing citizens.

00:13:32.780 | - But you made another point,

00:13:34.060 | which is an interesting point,

00:13:35.300 | and it's very difficult to see in the heart of people.

00:13:37.700 | But I wonder if you look at the average Palestinian

00:13:40.540 | and the average Israeli, and when they look at the other,

00:13:44.500 | do they have some hate in their heart?

00:13:49.140 | Well, everybody probably has some.

00:13:51.640 | What is that amount?

00:13:53.240 | You know, when you look at a person

00:13:54.880 | that looks different than you, how much hate is there?

00:13:57.840 | - It depends on what is the specific situation

00:13:59.840 | of each person.

00:14:00.680 | So in the Berlin Film Festival,

00:14:02.600 | just like a few, couple of weeks ago,

00:14:04.840 | there was an Israeli and a Palestinian

00:14:06.240 | receiving an award together.

00:14:08.960 | And the Israeli director said,

00:14:10.680 | "We're gonna go back to Israel.

00:14:12.320 | "He's gonna go to the West Bank.

00:14:13.720 | "He will have no rights,

00:14:14.640 | "and I will have full living rights."

00:14:16.800 | These people managed to work together and be friends,

00:14:21.160 | and they have empathy to each other.

00:14:22.960 | Now, the average Palestinian,

00:14:28.400 | it's a very difficult question

00:14:31.000 | because is it the Palestinian in the diaspora,

00:14:33.320 | or the Palestinian in Gaza,

00:14:34.760 | or the diaspora in the West Bank,

00:14:36.440 | or the one in the citizen, as a citizen of Israel,

00:14:39.160 | who still have less right than a Roman citizen of Israel,

00:14:41.760 | a Jew.

00:14:42.600 | And it really depends if I am,

00:14:45.880 | there are people in, Arabs in Israel,

00:14:48.840 | who are having a great life.

00:14:50.600 | And there are people, Arabs, who are having a miserable life.

00:14:53.800 | But definitely people that living in Gaza

00:14:55.680 | or in the West Bank is kind of like on the lower tier

00:14:58.520 | of their living conditions.

00:15:00.640 | Now, let's talk about the hate.

00:15:02.520 | What does that Palestinian see with the Israeli?

00:15:04.960 | The Palestinian see oppression,

00:15:07.680 | limitation of movement, limitation of freedom.

00:15:10.360 | They have, and then when there's something happens,

00:15:13.400 | you see the full force coming in,

00:15:15.360 | destroying their home, taking away members of his family.

00:15:19.360 | There will be absolutely no reason for him to love the other.

00:15:22.720 | The Israeli, because he doesn't have the power,

00:15:26.320 | but he lives under his government,

00:15:27.880 | all he sees is the rockets or whatever,

00:15:29.760 | but he sees the reaction,

00:15:31.720 | and he doesn't see what happened to those.

00:15:33.960 | And as humans, we are selfish.

00:15:35.600 | We see what really affects us as humans.

00:15:38.280 | And I cannot even imagine what it would be like

00:15:41.840 | to live as a Palestinian.

00:15:43.520 | And I'm not gonna talk about Gaza,

00:15:45.040 | because everybody talks about Gaza.

00:15:47.240 | But let me give you an example.

00:15:48.480 | And I'm not gonna talk about the 12,000 kids killed in Gaza.

00:15:51.920 | Let's talk about just like the four weeks in the West Bank.

00:15:55.120 | March 4th, Amr Najjar, age 10,

00:16:01.520 | sitting next to his father,

00:16:03.000 | shot while he's sitting in a car next to his father

00:16:06.200 | by the IDF soldiers.

00:16:08.240 | Mohamed Ziad, 13 years old,

00:16:11.360 | March 3rd, shot in front of a UN school

00:16:14.600 | while sitting with his friends.

00:16:16.560 | Mohamed Ghanem, age 15,

00:16:19.120 | March 2nd, he shot while standing in front of a storefront

00:16:23.680 | during a night raid.

00:16:25.400 | February 23rd, Saeed Jardal,

00:16:28.800 | he was killed by a drone fire.

00:16:31.200 | February 22nd, Fadi Suleiman,

00:16:33.360 | killed while standing in front of the top

00:16:35.520 | of a Red Cross building.

00:16:37.720 | Nihil Ziad, February 14th, Valentine's Day,

00:16:42.400 | killed a shot in the head while leaving school.

00:16:45.600 | February 11th, Mohamed Khattour, US citizens,

00:16:49.280 | killed while being in a parked car.

00:16:52.400 | And Moaz Shams, February 9th,

00:16:55.720 | killed right in front of his home

00:16:57.800 | because a military car came reversing back to him

00:17:00.920 | and then somebody opened the door, shot him, and leave.

00:17:04.880 | This is a daily life of people in the West Bank.

00:17:07.280 | - What is the justification the idea provides?

00:17:10.120 | - Terrorism.

00:17:12.120 | - Terrorism.

00:17:14.320 | - Or, I don't know, I mean,

00:17:15.680 | you cannot really say, like, human shields.

00:17:18.160 | But they would say, like, they were throwing rocks.

00:17:19.800 | There was a guy who went on Chris Rock

00:17:22.600 | and he said, like, his son, a US citizen,

00:17:24.320 | were killed, and they were throwing rocks, so he killed him.

00:17:26.440 | Even when they were throwing rocks, you kill him.

00:17:28.680 | But the thing is, you see,

00:17:29.800 | this is how easy for them to get rid of Palestinians.

00:17:33.040 | I mean, I love, like, I was,

00:17:36.480 | I had to say I prepared a little bit for the podcast

00:17:38.480 | because you are in tech.

00:17:40.280 | So, and I am ignorant in tech.

00:17:43.520 | There is a movie called "The Lab."

00:17:45.240 | It is directed by an Israeli director called Yotam Feldman.

00:17:49.680 | And he talks about how the military industry in Israel

00:17:54.680 | is very advanced.

00:17:56.440 | And what is really mind-boggling is in that movie,

00:18:00.540 | he shows how the military tests its weapons

00:18:04.560 | in the field in urban areas on Palestinians.

00:18:07.080 | It is heartbreaking.

00:18:10.400 | You know, as a doctor, there is five stages of trials.

00:18:13.120 | There is, like, there is discovery, preclinical, clinical,

00:18:17.920 | and then market, and then post-market evaluation by the FDA,

00:18:22.600 | the FDA approval, and then the FDA post-market.

00:18:26.360 | Five, just to take a pill.

00:18:28.640 | And you go in, and he interviews people as, like,

00:18:31.860 | where did you test this?

00:18:33.580 | They test it in the field.

00:18:34.840 | So, when you just, like, when human life is so cheap,

00:18:40.740 | and it is so indispensable, it made me,

00:18:46.560 | it gave me a visceral reaction.

00:18:49.140 | Because, you know, we as humans,

00:18:51.180 | this has been actually the state of humanity.

00:18:55.300 | Humanity has lived and survived and thrived

00:18:58.900 | by actually killing each other.

00:19:00.700 | But there was kind of a, we were remotely,

00:19:03.180 | we were removed from it.

00:19:04.860 | People in Greece didn't know what Alexander the Great

00:19:07.820 | was doing.

00:19:08.660 | He was killing and pillaging.

00:19:09.500 | Like, we called him the Great, but he was killing.

00:19:11.780 | He was conquering, he was invading.

00:19:14.340 | Julius Caesar, all of the greats, he would do it.

00:19:16.740 | But killing was difficult.

00:19:18.860 | Killing had to have some sort.

00:19:20.460 | You have to be with your enemy.

00:19:21.780 | Then you go back, catapults, then cannons,

00:19:25.220 | then a little bit back.

00:19:26.780 | And then you're kind of like standing remotely.

00:19:28.460 | Now you're killing people behind the screen

00:19:30.100 | with a button, with a push of a button.

00:19:32.020 | You know?

00:19:32.860 | A lot of people say, "Terrorism!"

00:19:34.180 | They killed you with a knife.

00:19:35.780 | Killed one person with a knife, shot you.

00:19:37.420 | That's terrorism.

00:19:38.420 | But if you fly a $64 million F-16

00:19:41.460 | and you drop off an A-84 bomb that costs $16,000,

00:19:46.060 | that's not terrorism because it's remote.

00:19:47.900 | You're behind the screen.

00:19:49.020 | So, what happened?

00:19:49.860 | What Israel is doing?

00:19:50.900 | It is removing itself, like America too.

00:19:53.420 | Drones, and then when you push someone to be in,

00:19:58.020 | they always brag about bombing them to the stone ages.

00:20:00.720 | What happens when the screens and all of the obstacles

00:20:06.780 | that you have been put between you and those people

00:20:09.120 | that you have treated them this way,

00:20:11.260 | when this is a breach and you come face to face,

00:20:14.300 | you will come face to face with what you have created.

00:20:17.680 | - Yeah, there's a lot of interesting things you just said.

00:20:20.720 | So, one is the methodology of killing.

00:20:23.300 | If you wanna look at some horrific large-scale killing,

00:20:28.220 | people often talk about the Holocaust, but that's visceral.

00:20:32.140 | You can look at Hollymore by Stalin

00:20:34.940 | where the murders through starvation.

00:20:37.460 | - By Churchill in India.

00:20:39.220 | - In Churchill in India, and the great leap forward by Mao.

00:20:44.220 | - Yep.

00:20:46.180 | - So, starvation is a thing we don't often think of it

00:20:50.740 | as murder because it's quiet, it's slow,

00:20:54.380 | and the interesting thing about starvation

00:20:56.620 | is that the people don't complain as they're dying

00:20:59.860 | because they're exhausted.

00:21:01.300 | That's one, and the other is the value of human life.

00:21:06.260 | It does seem that every culture

00:21:09.780 | has an unequal valuation of human life.

00:21:14.140 | So, those two things combined create a complicated

00:21:19.700 | military landscape of the world.

00:21:21.980 | - Yes, but the thing is, is that how we look at technology

00:21:26.580 | as the savior, as we talk about how AI will disrupt,

00:21:30.980 | will disrupt, will disrupt, and now if you go,

00:21:33.740 | you talk about like going to the West Bank,

00:21:36.420 | the people in the West Bank walk and they don't see humans.

00:21:39.740 | They see people shouting them from towers

00:21:41.340 | or behind the screens or doing,

00:21:42.940 | and they have like biometrics that is developed

00:21:45.380 | by Basel system, like that's done by HP

00:21:48.180 | or Google and Amazon who are like part of Project Nimbus,

00:21:52.500 | and you see Indivision developing all of this like metric

00:21:57.500 | and surveillance and all of that stuff,

00:22:00.420 | and then you have like something like the gospel

00:22:02.700 | that like people have actually said

00:22:03.820 | that the gospel can actually create a target list

00:22:07.060 | using AI and give you a green, yellow, or a red

00:22:10.540 | to go ahead, and now AI is not just disrupting the market,

00:22:15.420 | it's disrupting our humanity, and it is,

00:22:18.260 | we became so comfortable killing people from afar,

00:22:21.020 | killing people with a push of the button,

00:22:23.420 | and now it is like, it's like dating apps,

00:22:27.940 | you know, when you swipe left and right,

00:22:30.340 | and it's like, oh, right, it becomes so like cheap.

00:22:34.060 | It's not like meeting someone.

00:22:35.180 | It's like, ah, it's like a lot of fish in the sea.

00:22:37.740 | Same with AI, boom, 500 people killed, boom, they killed.

00:22:41.380 | It's so easy, it's so easy, it's so easy,

00:22:44.020 | and then it's so far removed from you,

00:22:46.500 | so when you put these people in this condition,

00:22:49.540 | you have literally put them

00:22:50.940 | in a different universe than yours.

00:22:52.700 | You are behind in your air-conditioned screens

00:22:55.540 | like pushing them, blowing up a university.

00:22:57.940 | It's amazing, but then you meet what you have done,

00:23:02.860 | that you meet the Frankenstein that you have created,

00:23:05.420 | and then people are like, oh, look what they did to us.

00:23:07.420 | - You just gave me this image of a dating app from hell

00:23:12.260 | where leaders are just sitting there

00:23:13.620 | and kind of swiping left and right.

00:23:15.300 | - Invade, destroy.

00:23:17.180 | - It's boring, right?

00:23:19.020 | - Like a puppet government.

00:23:20.260 | - Yeah, and then turn off the phone, go to sleep.

00:23:24.340 | So I got, you know, I traveled to the West Bank

00:23:26.300 | and I mentioned to you offline

00:23:27.700 | that I really loved the people there.

00:23:30.620 | Just, you know, I've met a bunch of people like that

00:23:34.660 | in Eastern Europe where I grew up.

00:23:37.540 | Yeah, like the flamboyant,

00:23:41.100 | the big personalities, all of that.

00:23:42.940 | I also met a person who's in charge of a refugee camp

00:23:49.060 | who was shop an IDF soldier.

00:23:53.060 | And I'm not sure the words he said are important

00:23:58.420 | as the consequences of the thing that you mentioned,

00:24:01.700 | which is the deep hate in his eyes.

00:24:04.820 | That didn't feel repairable at all.

00:24:08.660 | It was pain, it was like a foundation of pain

00:24:10.900 | and on top of that, a hatred.

00:24:12.820 | And I was like, wow, this is what,

00:24:15.420 | you kill one person, that's the way you create.

00:24:18.940 | Because we have kind of like a front row seat

00:24:24.180 | to what's happening.

00:24:25.700 | We think we're in it, but we can't really grasp it.

00:24:29.300 | I mean, people's like, oh, we're just gonna go in,

00:24:31.540 | get Hamas out, and we're gonna get them back in.

00:24:34.820 | And not only the people get back in,

00:24:36.220 | how do you think they would look at you?

00:24:38.900 | What have you created?

00:24:40.940 | What have you done?

00:24:41.940 | My show in Egypt was all about propaganda.

00:24:46.380 | It's all about the use of words.

00:24:48.180 | Words are very important.

00:24:50.020 | The decapitated babies were not chosen randomly

00:24:53.860 | because you see, it plants a certain image in your brain.

00:25:00.060 | Imagine if you're going in, what a baby can do?

00:25:02.060 | It can smile, cry, and poop, that's it.

00:25:04.580 | It's absolutely no threat.

00:25:06.460 | So when you tell people 40 decapitated babies,

00:25:09.300 | they are so animalistic, they didn't see the babies.

00:25:12.300 | Women raped, of course he's an animal to do that.

00:25:16.260 | And they would go through that, and they would,

00:25:19.260 | what was very frustrating about the conversation

00:25:23.540 | is the gish galloping, the gish galloping,

00:25:26.820 | throwing, you see the distractions?

00:25:28.900 | You see what happens?

00:25:29.740 | It's like, what's the proportion response?

00:25:31.580 | Can Israel defend itself?

00:25:32.980 | Do you condemn Hamas?

00:25:34.140 | Does Israel has the right to exist?

00:25:35.540 | Decapitated babies, raped women.

00:25:37.780 | Why don't the Arab countries take them?

00:25:39.780 | Why don't the Muslims kill Muslims?

00:25:42.340 | Look what happened in Yemen, in Syria, in Iraq.

00:25:45.220 | See how they kind of distract you?

00:25:47.420 | They throw little things at you.

00:25:49.260 | So you don't know what to do?

00:25:50.500 | Oh, the UN, anti-Semitic, October 7th,

00:25:53.740 | October 7th, October 7th.

00:25:55.140 | And then suddenly you are distracted

00:25:58.500 | and pulled into discussing all of these little things.

00:26:01.180 | And you're not discussing what's happening right now.

00:26:03.140 | It is basically stalling,

00:26:04.460 | giving them time to do what they do.

00:26:05.900 | - So there's some degree to the propaganda,

00:26:09.220 | so the beheaded babies and all this kind of stuff,

00:26:12.260 | that is so over the top

00:26:16.500 | that it shuts down actual conversation

00:26:18.660 | about actual wrongs, war crimes on both sides.

00:26:23.260 | So it's overstating it to where everyone on social media

00:26:26.780 | and everywhere in the press and everywhere is arguing,

00:26:28.820 | almost become desensitized to actual horrors of death,

00:26:32.420 | which are more mundane.

00:26:33.860 | They're not so dramatic as beheaded babies.

00:26:35.900 | - Because people, a baby is shot, but decapitated babies.

00:26:39.540 | There's like a knife blade that goes into the skin,

00:26:42.140 | the trachea, the flesh, the spine.

00:26:44.780 | Decapitated, you can just like, he's dead.

00:26:48.180 | No, you go in, this is the hate, so much hate.

00:26:51.100 | And you know, that's why--

00:26:51.940 | - You have made me laugh.

00:26:53.420 | (laughing)

00:26:55.660 | At the darkest shit.

00:26:57.820 | You're such a beautiful person.

00:26:59.460 | Your dark humor is just wonderful.

00:27:01.860 | - But you see, this happened to Jews before.

00:27:03.540 | Remember blood libel?

00:27:04.660 | Where did the blood libel come from?

00:27:05.980 | It come from these rumors that Jews suck baby's blood.

00:27:10.460 | This is what they did to them.

00:27:11.300 | - That's what's in the cup.

00:27:12.340 | (laughing)

00:27:14.300 | - That's a very delicious baby cup.

00:27:15.700 | - Delicious baby blood.

00:27:16.660 | - But this is what you do.

00:27:17.500 | You tell people something,

00:27:19.220 | and it happened with the Native Americans

00:27:20.700 | when they were here, when they went in

00:27:22.100 | and they wipe a whole tribe.

00:27:23.900 | So, and Jewish people, one of the minorities

00:27:28.220 | that were persecuted and had this used against them

00:27:31.020 | for a very long time, and it is terrible,

00:27:33.140 | and it's terrifying that it's been used again.

00:27:35.340 | - So I just did a very lengthy debate

00:27:37.580 | on Israel and Palestine.

00:27:38.940 | And the really painful thing from that,

00:27:42.580 | those two historians, it was deep, it was thorough,

00:27:46.740 | it was fascinating, but in constantly asking

00:27:51.740 | about sources of hope or solutions, there was none.

00:27:55.220 | There was a sense of, like a really dark sense

00:28:00.340 | of it's hopeless, from both sides, it's hopeless.

00:28:04.340 | So, you know, I look to you.

00:28:08.300 | (laughing)

00:28:10.660 | For a source of, for a source of hope.

00:28:15.660 | Do you have, is there any hope here,

00:28:18.980 | solutions, short-term, long-term?

00:28:22.140 | - Obama have kind of summarized this beautifully

00:28:25.180 | in his book.

00:28:26.380 | He said, the reason why the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

00:28:30.820 | is so chronic is one side has so much power,

00:28:35.620 | and the other side have absolutely no power.

00:28:37.820 | And that's what Obama would say.

00:28:39.620 | He said, like, you have Israel

00:28:41.060 | that basically don't listen to us,

00:28:43.380 | because they are supported by people

00:28:44.860 | who are bigger than the president,

00:28:45.980 | bigger than the administration.

00:28:46.820 | They know that they can.

00:28:47.660 | I mean, like Netanyahu was caught on tape many times

00:28:51.300 | saying, like, he's basically like belittling Americans.

00:28:53.900 | Like, we control 80% of the population.

00:28:56.500 | We don't care.

00:28:57.580 | This has kind of like nonchalant,

00:28:59.660 | kind of like, oh, we have them.

00:29:01.380 | And there's nothing really that compels Israel

00:29:06.460 | to give up anything, because at the end of the day,

00:29:08.060 | what is compromise?

00:29:08.900 | Compromise is like, I give something, you give something.

00:29:11.140 | Israel's not giving anything.

00:29:13.020 | And they project that on you.

00:29:15.420 | So, for example, how many times have we heard,

00:29:17.260 | like, oh, Palestinians were giving like four, five,

00:29:19.340 | six, seven, 15 chances, and they said no to them.

00:29:22.020 | And yet, when you read the history,

00:29:23.580 | that's not the case at all.

00:29:25.460 | Like, for example, in 2000,

00:29:28.220 | the whole idea about like Arafat walked away from Oslo.

00:29:32.060 | That didn't happen.

00:29:32.900 | And there is an incredible video by, you know,

00:29:37.420 | what's his name, Joe Skorborow with Misha.

00:29:41.020 | And they were hosting her father, Brzezinski.

00:29:44.860 | He was the national security advisor.

00:29:48.140 | And Joe Skorborow said, like, well, you know,

00:29:50.260 | like, Arafat left the Oslo Accord and the Palestinians left.

00:29:53.700 | And then Brzezinski said, like,

00:29:55.580 | this is like embarrassingly shallow.

00:29:58.740 | It's like, listen, what happened was,

00:30:01.660 | there was a lot of catches on the Oslo Accord.

00:30:04.820 | It was very unfair to the Palestinians.

00:30:06.420 | So, Arafat said, like, I agree,

00:30:07.940 | but I need to take it to the Arab capitals.

00:30:10.460 | And they went to Sharm el-Sheikh.

00:30:13.980 | They came to Egypt.

00:30:15.180 | And he and Ehud Barak went to there.

00:30:17.020 | And then Ehud Barak left because there was election,

00:30:19.340 | and he lost the election, came, and it was destroyed.

00:30:22.220 | This is one of the reason why people,

00:30:25.580 | it's kind of like facts don't matter

00:30:29.540 | as much as what is the narrative that has been controlled.

00:30:32.140 | - But what were the biggest barriers to peace there?

00:30:35.020 | Do you think it's fundamentally,

00:30:36.620 | leaders don't want a two-state solution?

00:30:38.300 | Or was there nuanced small differences

00:30:42.780 | that if solved could have led to a two-state solution?

00:30:45.980 | - I mean, maybe there was a certain point

00:30:48.180 | when the Israeli leaders were more open to compromise.

00:30:53.180 | But I can't say that

00:30:55.220 | because each time Israel gives back land,

00:30:57.860 | it has to be after some use of force.

00:31:00.620 | The 1973 war, the Intifada, the first and second,

00:31:05.620 | the casualties in Gaza,

00:31:09.500 | they never give up land willingly and because of peace.

00:31:13.100 | Because if I have that much military,

00:31:14.620 | I can do whatever I want.

00:31:16.940 | Why would I give up anything?

00:31:18.420 | I have that much power.

00:31:19.460 | Why would America or China give everything

00:31:21.300 | if they're so powerful?

00:31:23.140 | And especially if they have this kind of open check

00:31:25.180 | from the United States.

00:31:26.460 | So it is really about

00:31:28.700 | what can push Israel to give up something?

00:31:33.980 | Because you are so much stronger than me.

00:31:36.340 | What could compel you to give up something?

00:31:39.620 | And this is why the whole thing

00:31:41.580 | about trying to equalize Palestinians

00:31:45.620 | and the Israeli state and government,

00:31:47.420 | it doesn't make any sense.

00:31:49.500 | - So what is the source of hope?

00:31:52.700 | You know, Jon Stewart,

00:31:54.100 | who will talk about it from many angles,

00:31:57.980 | somebody you admire, a friend,

00:31:59.920 | he proposed a two-state solution.

00:32:03.940 | - Of course.

00:32:05.860 | - Look to the comedians for hope.

00:32:08.860 | - Yes, well, everybody's talking

00:32:10.140 | about the two-state solution,

00:32:11.300 | but Israel has said many times on Netanyahu and Bennis,

00:32:14.660 | like, there is gonna be no state solutions.

00:32:17.580 | In the past, it's like, even Naftali Bennett,

00:32:19.980 | he came in on the hard talk.

00:32:22.700 | It's like, yeah, maybe in the past

00:32:23.780 | we wanted two-state solutions,

00:32:24.880 | but like, look, every time we give them land, they kill us.

00:32:26.900 | So no state solutions.

00:32:28.060 | And they are openly saying it.

00:32:29.700 | - That's perhaps rhetoric.

00:32:31.620 | - Rhetoric that is supported by action.

00:32:35.220 | Because look at what they're doing

00:32:36.660 | in the West Bank that you said.

00:32:38.100 | They are cutting it, illegal settlement, piecemealing it.

00:32:43.420 | So how, if you have an intention at all

00:32:45.620 | to give them anything, why do you keep doing this?

00:32:48.660 | - And you've called it a bunch of little Gazas.

00:32:51.620 | - Yeah, yeah.

00:32:52.460 | - It's a nice little picture of what's happening.

00:32:54.460 | - Piecemealing it, dum, dum, dum.

00:32:56.020 | Because it is, what happened in the past four months,

00:33:00.520 | the Palestinians have been microdosing on it

00:33:02.660 | for a very long time, little by little, little by little.

00:33:07.660 | And we would shout every time when it gets too much,

00:33:11.660 | and then we shut down, and then little by little.

00:33:14.580 | But this time it was hard.

00:33:16.660 | It was hard to see the blatant oppression.

00:33:21.420 | And the world said, maybe the Hamas Ministry of Health

00:33:25.380 | are giving us the bad numbers.

00:33:26.620 | Maybe it's just human shields.

00:33:28.180 | And I laugh, there's 13,000 babies killed.

00:33:32.340 | Does that mean that there are 13,000 military targets

00:33:35.820 | hiding in their diapers?

00:33:37.620 | Because it is so, it doesn't make any sense

00:33:40.700 | to kill that many babies.

00:33:41.900 | It's like, oh, oops, it is out of our hands.

00:33:45.940 | - It's hard to know what to do with those numbers.

00:33:48.180 | I mean, it's just one baby is enough.

00:33:51.180 | - But you know what happens?

00:33:52.860 | When you hear so many numbers, numbers become numbers.

00:33:55.620 | And you become so desensitized.

00:33:58.180 | And this is why there's a difference

00:34:00.700 | between saying, 13,000 Palestinian kids dead.

00:34:05.100 | It's like Mila Cohen, an Israeli baby, 10 months old.

00:34:08.660 | She was killed in her crib.

00:34:10.380 | And this is what we hear from CNN.

00:34:11.940 | We never hear a story about a Palestinian kid.

00:34:13.920 | That's why, thank you for giving me the space

00:34:16.420 | for saying the news of the Palestinian children

00:34:18.900 | that were killed just in four weeks.

00:34:20.700 | Because humans needs context, they need depth.

00:34:27.180 | They need like a 3D look at what they can look at.

00:34:31.100 | But if you just tell them numbers,

00:34:33.620 | they don't mean anything.

00:34:34.460 | - Is there some degree to where both leaderships,

00:34:37.060 | Hamas, PA, Palestinian Authority, Israel,

00:34:41.460 | all want war, like perpetual war to remain in power?

00:34:46.460 | - There is, that's an interesting question.

00:34:51.380 | But I mean, let's admit something.

00:34:54.980 | The Arab regimes in the area have actually used

00:34:59.100 | the problem of Palestine in order to stay in power,

00:35:01.380 | in order to get excuses to like have this enemy.

00:35:04.580 | And Israel, the Israeli government has used that too,

00:35:07.820 | and maybe the Palestinians.

00:35:09.340 | But my problem with when going into discussion,

00:35:13.220 | this is that the two sides are not equal.

00:35:16.140 | They're not equal in power.

00:35:17.380 | They're not equal in influence,

00:35:18.700 | and they're not equal in international support,

00:35:20.900 | especially with the United States.

00:35:23.380 | So Palestinians can, people who have made changes

00:35:28.380 | in history were the people with power,

00:35:31.660 | the people who would have the ability to change things.

00:35:34.940 | And the Palestinians cannot really change,

00:35:37.100 | and what can they change?

00:35:39.220 | - Well, is that true though?

00:35:40.980 | - Okay. - With how much support

00:35:43.900 | the Palestinian people have?

00:35:46.140 | So just like you said, there's a lot of Arab states

00:35:49.220 | that will voice their pro-Palestinian position

00:35:54.020 | in order to distract from the young corruption

00:35:57.100 | and abuses of power in their own countries.

00:35:59.380 | But I don't think if you look globally,

00:36:03.420 | there's a complete asymmetry of power

00:36:06.540 | and public opinion here, maybe in the West.

00:36:10.620 | But if you look globally--

00:36:11.980 | - But do they have the same kind of weapons

00:36:13.820 | that the Israeli have?

00:36:14.660 | - So literally power?

00:36:16.100 | No, there's a major asymmetry of literal power.

00:36:20.220 | - Some money to their leaders?

00:36:22.680 | Does that make any difference?

00:36:24.420 | I mean, and also when you say Palestinian authority,

00:36:26.660 | which authority are you talking about?

00:36:27.900 | Hamas or the Palestinian authority

00:36:29.780 | who has been kind of a domesticated,

00:36:31.740 | kind of like a puppy for the Palestinians,

00:36:34.580 | who basically have been an informant on their own people.

00:36:38.260 | And this is the thing also that kind of like

00:36:41.460 | really pissed me off when I was hearing the thing

00:36:43.540 | about Hamas, Hamas, Hamas, Hamas.

00:36:45.980 | We have Netanyahu on tape confessing

00:36:48.060 | that he supported Hamas, gave him money in order

00:36:50.220 | to cause factions between the Palestinians.

00:36:54.300 | So it's just like, you just told me this.

00:36:57.700 | You just told me Netanyahu supports Hamas.

00:36:59.780 | But Hamas is like, what?

00:37:01.420 | - I mean, to which degree does Netanyahu

00:37:03.220 | represent the Israeli people is a real question.

00:37:08.220 | - To which point does Trump or Biden

00:37:11.060 | represent the American people?

00:37:12.660 | - And to which degree does Hamas

00:37:14.020 | represent the Palestinian people?

00:37:15.460 | - Does, none of these represent it,

00:37:18.180 | but who have the power in order to make the decisions?

00:37:20.780 | It really comes down to that.

00:37:22.940 | - Well, who does have the power?

00:37:25.740 | - You're giving a lot of power to Israel.

00:37:27.980 | - Yeah.

00:37:28.820 | - But the Arab League--

00:37:31.220 | - What should Hamas do?

00:37:32.340 | What do you think we should Hamas do?

00:37:33.780 | - Continue doing what a charter says,

00:37:35.500 | which is trying to destroy Israel.

00:37:37.620 | And the role of the Palestinian people

00:37:39.660 | is to overthrow Hamas and get a more

00:37:41.340 | moderate leadership probably.

00:37:43.060 | And the role of the Israeli people

00:37:45.300 | is to vote out this right-wing government

00:37:49.300 | and elect a more moderate leader

00:37:52.860 | so that there's a chance at peace

00:37:55.060 | with two moderate leaders.

00:37:56.740 | - So before Hamas even got to control 2006 Gaza,

00:38:01.420 | there was Eriel Sharon in 2000.

00:38:03.260 | And we all know what happened.

00:38:05.660 | And Ariel Sharon kind of like had made,

00:38:07.980 | came up with this amazing policy

00:38:09.620 | of like breaking people's kids' bones in the Intifada.

00:38:14.620 | So Hill Baraki was also like, I mean,

00:38:18.020 | which one is moderate?

00:38:19.140 | I mean, I think is Hamas is a product of what happened.

00:38:22.900 | I mean, we can, if there was no apartheid in South Africa,

00:38:27.900 | there would be no NFC.

00:38:29.700 | There would be no Nelson Mandela.

00:38:31.140 | If there were no Nazis in Paris,

00:38:33.020 | there would be no French resistance.

00:38:34.820 | And I'm not saying, and again, I'm not,

00:38:36.820 | I don't wanna be put in a position

00:38:39.620 | to defend Hamas or anybody

00:38:40.900 | because you know what that entails.

00:38:42.540 | But those are like Hamas, again, not defending them.

00:38:47.540 | They went into October 7th.

00:38:51.340 | What was their, why did they did that?

00:38:54.100 | Like release our hostages, the people in prison.

00:38:57.380 | Because if you're talking about people who were kidnapped,

00:39:00.460 | Israel kidnaps people every single day.

00:39:03.500 | And when they had the first exchange in November 4th,

00:39:06.820 | Israelis, 400 people,

00:39:08.020 | three quarters of them were women and children.

00:39:10.460 | Why are those people in prison?

00:39:12.500 | There's one in four kids that are in prison

00:39:15.340 | that stay in solitary confinement,

00:39:17.300 | which is by international law, a form of torture.

00:39:20.700 | And you're putting kids through that.

00:39:22.580 | - Is it possible, so first of all, ceasefire.

00:39:25.820 | - Yes.

00:39:26.660 | - And longer term, is it possible for Arab states

00:39:30.620 | and the United States to get together

00:39:33.540 | and with power through diplomacy enforce a solution?

00:39:38.540 | - It's a very, very ideal solution.

00:39:44.620 | But you know, and I know that Arab states

00:39:47.740 | don't really have the power.

00:39:49.140 | All of the powers are in the hands of America.

00:39:51.220 | - They have the power.

00:39:52.180 | See, I would, I think they have the power.

00:39:54.100 | I don't--

00:39:54.940 | - Maybe they don't want to use it.

00:39:56.060 | - They don't want, well, that's--

00:39:57.720 | - Maybe they don't want to use it.

00:39:58.560 | - Because there's a benefit, like the dark,

00:40:02.260 | the dark sense I have is that a lot of people

00:40:06.660 | win from the suffering that Palestinians are going through

00:40:10.580 | because they can point to that and distract from--

00:40:14.260 | - Definitely, definitely.

00:40:15.340 | - Corruption in their own states.

00:40:16.460 | And then obviously Iran can benefit also

00:40:18.860 | from the same kind of dynamic,

00:40:21.020 | distracting from the authoritarian nature of their regime.

00:40:26.020 | - Definitely, but what is the core of the problem here?

00:40:30.760 | Is it the Arab states using the suffering

00:40:32.820 | or actually the suffering itself?

00:40:36.060 | And the suffering comes from people being displaced,

00:40:39.220 | their homes were taken away.

00:40:40.960 | There are seven million Palestinians in diaspora.

00:40:45.340 | Seven millions, seven million went out there

00:40:47.360 | and now they're living in Canada and America and Europe.

00:40:49.940 | They had homes there, they cannot go back to.

00:40:52.240 | 1.7 million people of the people in Gaza

00:40:56.820 | don't belong in Gaza, they were pushed from other places.

00:40:59.920 | The piecemeal thing of people are being,

00:41:03.900 | you know, in Germany, I'm gonna shift gear a little bit,

00:41:08.900 | it's gonna be a little bit of fun.

00:41:11.140 | There is a book that I bought the rights to

00:41:14.020 | and I want to turn it into a movie.

00:41:16.020 | And I bought, I optioned the right for two years

00:41:20.460 | in March of last year, before October 7th.

00:41:22.720 | After October 7th, I bought the permanent right.

00:41:25.120 | That book is called "The Muslim and the Jew"

00:41:30.580 | and it is written by an author called Ronin Steinke.

00:41:34.120 | I read an article about this book in 2016

00:41:37.580 | and I chased that book for rights for seven years.

00:41:41.140 | I didn't have that much money, but I wanted that book.

00:41:44.980 | And that book was translated into English

00:41:47.180 | called "Anna and Dr. Halmy."

00:41:49.020 | And that book tells the incredible story

00:41:51.540 | under Nazi Germany, where Arabs went in droves

00:41:56.540 | to Berlin in 1920s after the First World War

00:41:59.820 | in the Weimar Republic and they became doctors

00:42:02.780 | and engineers and journalists for two reasons.

00:42:05.860 | Number one, it was dirt cheap,

00:42:07.460 | very cheap because of the inflation.

00:42:09.060 | And two, a lot of the Arab nationalists

00:42:11.060 | didn't want to send their kids to England or France

00:42:16.000 | because they were the occupiers.

00:42:17.600 | And Dr. Halmy was the hero of that.

00:42:21.220 | He's an Egyptian doctor and that's why I kind of like,

00:42:23.660 | I personally kind of connected with him.

00:42:25.820 | And he went to medical school, didn't find a place to live,

00:42:30.820 | so he lived in the Jewish ghettos, like many Arabs.

00:42:35.940 | He didn't find a school to work, a hospital to work in,

00:42:38.900 | so he worked in a Jewish hospital.

00:42:40.660 | So there was a lot of Arabs who lived with the ghetto.

00:42:45.220 | And actually the first director of the Berlin Mosque

00:42:48.800 | was a Jewish convert who converted to Islam

00:42:52.020 | and he was a gay activist.

00:42:53.260 | I'm telling you, this is like a crazy story.

00:42:56.900 | And this is not a fiction story.

00:42:58.940 | This is actually like a nonfiction.

00:43:00.060 | It's written actually based on the statement

00:43:02.300 | and the documents of the Nazis and the Gestapo.

00:43:05.340 | Dr. Halmy, he was in this hospital and the Nazis came in

00:43:10.340 | and they killed and tortured and beat up the Jewish doctor

00:43:16.540 | and they made him the head of his department.

00:43:19.260 | Then he was, so now he's surrounded by Nazi doctor.

00:43:21.180 | They didn't touch him because he was an Arab.

00:43:23.220 | There was kind of like a thing between Germany

00:43:26.140 | and the Arabs because they wanted to appease to them

00:43:29.440 | in order to have kind of a grassroots base

00:43:34.740 | in the Arab world where he want to go next.

00:43:37.300 | And this is why 1934, 1935, the racial laws of Nuremberg,

00:43:43.140 | they had a name change.

00:43:46.700 | First they were called anti-Semitic.

00:43:48.940 | Then they changed into anti-Jewish

00:43:50.460 | because also Arabs were Semitic.

00:43:52.740 | So they wanted to appease the Arabs.

00:43:54.340 | Now, what happened to Dr. Halmy when that happened to him?

00:43:57.380 | He would go back to the ghetto

00:43:58.900 | and he would see the apartments next to him,

00:44:03.580 | the Jewish apartment, become more and more and more

00:44:07.740 | flooded with people because they were moving Jews

00:44:11.220 | and pushing them and putting them together,

00:44:13.340 | pushing them to the side.

00:44:15.620 | And each flat, each apartment, instead of one family,

00:44:20.620 | it would have three, four, six, seven families.

00:44:24.180 | And he was there going into a home and he looked.

00:44:27.100 | He was there.

00:44:29.140 | This is where the people he grew up with, he lived with.

00:44:32.420 | And now he's seen that kind of discrimination

00:44:34.260 | just because he was an Arab.

00:44:35.460 | And then he started to kind of atone for,

00:44:40.460 | because he felt responsible

00:44:42.220 | because he wasn't treated the same way.

00:44:43.700 | And he started to go and treat Jewish people in their homes

00:44:47.060 | because they couldn't go to hospitals.

00:44:49.340 | And then one family gave them his daughter.

00:44:52.800 | It's like, this is Anna, save her.

00:44:56.180 | He took her, pretended that she's his niece,

00:44:58.460 | put a hijab around her, taught her Arabic,

00:45:00.900 | called her Nadia, my daughter's name, by the way.

00:45:03.840 | And he hid her in plain sights for seven years

00:45:08.140 | in front of the Nazis as his nurse.

00:45:10.380 | It's an incredible story.

00:45:11.500 | And then not just that he went to prison

00:45:14.020 | and then he went out and he formed with the Arab people

00:45:16.500 | that was in prison with him a network that saves 300 Jews.

00:45:19.500 | See that kind of story?

00:45:22.100 | This is the Jews that were living in the Arab world.

00:45:24.620 | I'm not saying that the Jews living in the Arab world

00:45:26.020 | was living like an incredible life.

00:45:27.380 | Of course, as a kind of a minority,

00:45:28.860 | they did not have the full power or the full advantages

00:45:32.860 | of the rule, that's normal.

00:45:34.620 | But we had this kind of a relationship

00:45:39.620 | before Israel was erected in 1948.

00:45:47.460 | And then, of course, everybody looked at Jews

00:45:51.020 | at that time as fifth column.

00:45:53.060 | And of course, the nationalistic regimes used that.

00:45:56.700 | And this is why what Biden said was very dangerous

00:46:01.620 | when he said, "If there is no Israel,

00:46:03.180 | "no Jew in the world will feel safe.

00:46:05.700 | "You are the leader of the free world.

00:46:07.340 | "You are the president of the United States.

00:46:08.820 | "Do you mean that you are telling me

00:46:10.040 | "that the Jews in your country,

00:46:11.840 | "in the United States of America are not safe?

00:46:13.720 | "That is wrong on two levels.

00:46:14.900 | "Number one, America historically and right now

00:46:18.020 | "is more safe to Jews in the world than anybody.

00:46:21.500 | "They are safer than the Jews in Israel.

00:46:23.120 | "They never had pogroms or the Holocaust like Europe.

00:46:26.160 | "They live here a good life.

00:46:27.260 | "Not perfect life, but they are better.

00:46:28.800 | "Second of all, if you're the president

00:46:30.260 | "and you're telling that a group of people

00:46:31.680 | "will not feel safe unless there is a different one,

00:46:33.800 | "you are already feeding into their fifth column.

00:46:36.880 | "They're like, you're Russian, you come from there.

00:46:39.300 | "And there is a group of laws in the Russian Constitution

00:46:43.060 | "that says that Russia will protect its citizens

00:46:45.260 | "everywhere in the world.

00:46:46.500 | "What happens if the president says like,

00:46:48.120 | "oh, you're Russians, you're protected by your own country,

00:46:50.140 | "you don't belong here?

00:46:50.980 | "This is terrible."

00:46:52.060 | - Yeah, you're right, that's actually an indirect threat.

00:46:54.660 | It's like even saying Muslims cannot feel safe in America

00:46:59.660 | or something like this.

00:47:01.100 | That means like that's a threat.

00:47:03.060 | - But what would a Jewish person in Beverly Hills

00:47:06.400 | or in Brooklyn feel if he hears that?

00:47:10.160 | You are already telling people

00:47:12.000 | you need to be loyal to Israel.

00:47:13.760 | I mean, Israel is a foreign country.

00:47:17.880 | I am sorry, but Israel is a foreign country.

00:47:20.760 | Israel is a client country that we sponsor

00:47:23.400 | and it should actually be responsible

00:47:25.780 | and held accountable for what they do.

00:47:28.240 | - You mentioned 1948, the Nakba,

00:47:31.240 | but before that, '41, '39, '41 to '45, the Holocaust.

00:47:36.240 | What do you do?

00:47:38.060 | What do you do with the Holocaust?

00:47:39.760 | How do you incorporate into the calculus

00:47:44.640 | of what's-- - Oh, it's terrible.

00:47:46.640 | - Of morality that leads up to the displacement

00:47:50.020 | of 700,000 Palestinians from the land?

00:47:55.020 | How do you work that out?

00:47:56.340 | - It is terrible, but like, I mean,

00:47:59.240 | what the systemic annihilation of Jewish people

00:48:02.920 | under the Nazi, that is like a carefully engineered,

00:48:07.920 | thought for, planned, it was terrible.

00:48:10.140 | It was like kind of like the human ingenuity

00:48:12.140 | put into like something that is very evil.

00:48:14.720 | But also, it is not just that happened.

00:48:18.620 | We need to remember that Otto Frank,

00:48:20.840 | the father of Anna Frank, has his visa,

00:48:22.860 | refugee visa rejected by the United States.

00:48:25.380 | There's a lot of people that were rejected

00:48:26.940 | by the United States, rejected by other European countries,

00:48:29.860 | and then they were pushed into Palestine.

00:48:31.780 | So you have to put yourself between like,

00:48:33.780 | and the Arabs, okay, we're sitting here,

00:48:35.420 | okay, come, and then, all right,

00:48:37.220 | you don't have a home or a country anymore.

00:48:39.900 | That kills you.

00:48:41.700 | I mean, you see, if I'm not an Arab

00:48:44.100 | and you give me that kind of piece

00:48:47.020 | of like terrible human treasure,

00:48:48.580 | like, oh my God, that is terrible.

00:48:50.300 | But then I'm an Arab, it's like, yes, I'm so sorry,

00:48:52.460 | but what do I have to do with that?

00:48:54.580 | Why is that my fault?

00:48:56.020 | The persecution of the Jewish people

00:48:59.060 | have started since the eighth and ninth century

00:49:01.660 | because they were like, they were first anti-Christians.

00:49:05.900 | They were like criminal immigrants.

00:49:08.640 | They were like conspirators.

00:49:10.180 | This is the antis, like people kind of like,

00:49:14.940 | it's as if Europe kind of like throw antisemitism on us.

00:49:18.940 | You understand that like Henry Ford,

00:49:21.260 | Henry Ford is one of the biggest anti,

00:49:23.100 | he was the inspiration for Adolf Hitler.

00:49:26.520 | (laughs)

00:49:28.380 | This is how antisemitic Henry Ford was.

00:49:32.900 | And you kind of like gloss over that.

00:49:37.900 | And then suddenly we as Arabs have to pay the price.

00:49:41.260 | Why?

00:49:44.060 | - Several questions I wanna ask there.

00:49:45.340 | So, but one, just zooming out,

00:49:47.260 | why do you think hatred of Jews

00:49:49.100 | has been such a viral kind of idea

00:49:54.820 | throughout human history?

00:49:55.740 | - Oh, it's very easy.

00:49:57.140 | It all started from Christ.

00:49:58.740 | They killed Christ, they killed Christ, they killed Christ.

00:50:01.340 | They're the killer of Christ.

00:50:02.400 | - That's a very sexy story.

00:50:03.380 | - That was so, yeah, that was, and that stayed for years.

00:50:07.420 | That stayed for centuries, I'm sorry, centuries.

00:50:10.300 | They're the killer of Christ.

00:50:11.580 | And then the Catholic Church did not allow usury,

00:50:16.580 | but they would work in usury.

00:50:18.300 | So they become rich.

00:50:20.100 | Now the people that we hate,

00:50:21.540 | that we accuse them of killing Christ are becoming rich.

00:50:24.660 | So that's envy now.

00:50:26.940 | And that's hatred.

00:50:29.140 | I mean, when you talk about ghettos,

00:50:32.540 | ghettos was not just a secluded parts in cities.

00:50:36.260 | Sometimes those ghettos were outside the cities.

00:50:39.980 | Jews were not even allowed to work a lot of professions.

00:50:42.900 | They were not allowed to get into the syndicates

00:50:45.780 | of certain professions.

00:50:48.940 | So they had to go work usury and they got rich.

00:50:50.900 | So the people hated them more.

00:50:52.660 | The first crusade didn't kill a single Muslim.

00:50:57.580 | All they killed were Jews.

00:50:59.460 | And when they finally arrived to Jerusalem,

00:51:01.500 | all they killed were Jews.

00:51:02.460 | They almost annihilated the Jews.

00:51:04.600 | So it was all this.

00:51:06.020 | And of course you have the dark ages.

00:51:07.940 | Who do you need as an enemy?

00:51:09.500 | The Jews, all right?

00:51:11.940 | They're the killer of Christ.

00:51:12.940 | There's nothing bigger than this.

00:51:14.760 | And then you fast forward.

00:51:19.140 | I mean, one of the things that I found out

00:51:21.380 | that was very, very, very, very crazy

00:51:24.300 | when Henry Ford imported the protocols

00:51:28.940 | of the elders of Zion.

00:51:30.900 | By the way, in the Arab world,

00:51:32.260 | protocols of the elders of Zion is so popular.

00:51:34.940 | And for obvious reasons.

00:51:37.940 | And for the people who don't know,

00:51:39.460 | it's kind of like a bunch of stories.

00:51:41.820 | And basically it's like the Jews saying,

00:51:45.340 | like, "We gotta control the war.

00:51:46.580 | "Then we're gonna do this,

00:51:47.420 | "then we're gonna do that," and whatever.

00:51:49.220 | What people don't know,

00:51:51.420 | that that is a work of plagiarism.

00:51:55.220 | It was plagiarized from a satirical play

00:51:59.220 | called "Conversation in Hell"

00:52:01.820 | between Machiavelli and Montesquieu.

00:52:05.140 | And it is kind of like based on one chapter

00:52:09.500 | or one scene or something.

00:52:10.900 | It's crazy.

00:52:11.740 | - But it's crazy how sticky it is.

00:52:13.660 | - Yes.

00:52:14.500 | - That's weird. - Yes.

00:52:15.340 | Because if I hate you, that's great.

00:52:17.820 | But if I have a story to support that hate,

00:52:20.060 | that's even better.

00:52:20.900 | - But it's like one of the best stories,

00:52:24.260 | one of the stickiest stories about hate.

00:52:26.380 | - Of course.

00:52:27.220 | - It's probably the most effective

00:52:29.060 | 'cause a lot of peoples hate other groups of peoples,

00:52:34.580 | but that's just like the sexiest story of them all.

00:52:37.060 | - Because humans need to concentrate their hate,

00:52:42.060 | their insecurities, and their shortcomings

00:52:46.780 | into one thing that they can practice that hate on.

00:52:50.460 | If it's a person, great.

00:52:52.900 | If it's a group, even better.

00:52:55.100 | - But how do you, into this calculus,

00:52:56.940 | incorporate that that group is pretty small?

00:52:59.580 | There's 16 million Jews worldwide.

00:53:04.180 | And you mentioned how is that the responsibility

00:53:06.540 | of the Arab peoples?

00:53:09.180 | Everybody should be to blame for not taking in Jews

00:53:11.820 | after the Holocaust.

00:53:14.060 | But the reality of the situation,

00:53:16.060 | if we look at the religious slice of this,

00:53:18.880 | there's 16, let's say, million Jews,

00:53:22.820 | and there's, I don't know how many Muslims,

00:53:24.660 | but 1.8 billion?

00:53:27.100 | - Yeah, yeah.

00:53:30.140 | - That difference, that 100x difference,

00:53:34.500 | do you incorporate that into the sense

00:53:37.060 | that Jews in Israel might feel for the existential dread

00:53:42.060 | that we might, this small group might be destroyed?

00:53:47.660 | - Jews in Israel have every right to feel afraid

00:53:50.140 | because of everything that they see

00:53:51.740 | and everything they've been told, everything.

00:53:54.460 | But I would say that the calculus or the numbers

00:53:57.980 | doesn't, like, of course, like being small,

00:54:01.900 | it is, of course, a factor,

00:54:04.940 | but it is never an excuse in order to take something

00:54:07.500 | that's not yours.

00:54:08.820 | It's saying like, hey, you have 300 million Americans,

00:54:11.420 | and we have 52, 50, so it says give one state for another,

00:54:14.140 | there's too many of them, too many of you,

00:54:16.300 | just give them something, you know?

00:54:18.540 | It's like the fact that I have something and you don't,

00:54:20.700 | and there's too many of me and there is little of you,

00:54:23.400 | and then you come in, and it's not really,

00:54:27.460 | Israel against the Arab world or the Muslim world

00:54:30.260 | because we have to say, we fucked up big time.

00:54:34.180 | But it is the Palestinians that are in,

00:54:38.260 | and they are being subjected to that.

00:54:39.900 | So it's not really like the 1.8 billion

00:54:42.100 | and the 16 million Jews.

00:54:44.300 | And the 1.8 billion, if you look at them,

00:54:46.100 | some of them, like, don't care,

00:54:47.540 | some of them live into regimes that being oppressed,

00:54:49.820 | and those regimes are supported

00:54:51.420 | by the United States in order.

00:54:52.860 | It's easier for me as an empire

00:54:56.400 | to take what I want from this country

00:54:58.600 | if I control the dictator.

00:55:00.460 | And I tell them that his power

00:55:03.300 | is linked to my ability, to my desire to keep him in power.

00:55:07.980 | So that's why you have a total disconnect

00:55:09.940 | between people in power in the Arab and the Muslim countries

00:55:13.420 | and the people themselves.

00:55:15.380 | - Can you speak to 1948, you know,

00:55:18.660 | 'cause you mentioned taking land that's not yours,

00:55:22.140 | maybe parallels with Native Americans.

00:55:25.500 | - Yeah.

00:55:28.300 | - There was a war.

00:55:29.460 | The Jewish minority fought that war

00:55:34.340 | against several Arab states and won that war.

00:55:37.560 | How do we incorporate that into the Catholics?

00:55:41.120 | - Yeah, well, that's also a misconception,

00:55:44.300 | like a misinterpretation of the event

00:55:45.900 | because it seems that it was, like,

00:55:49.900 | a small, it's kind of like a David and Goliath

00:55:52.900 | kind of story.

00:55:53.800 | But, and I was always like, how did we not do that?

00:55:59.720 | But in reality, with numbers,

00:56:03.100 | I can't pull it up right now,

00:56:05.940 | but if you look at the numbers,

00:56:07.180 | the number of tanks, the planes,

00:56:08.660 | the trained officer, because those,

00:56:11.940 | many of those Jewish fighters came from World War II.

00:56:15.500 | They were seasoned fighters.

00:56:17.380 | And they actually had more planes,

00:56:22.340 | more tanks, more artillery, more pieces of weapon,

00:56:25.140 | more of the all of the other combined

00:56:26.620 | because the people that really, like, fought was Egypt.

00:56:31.220 | And you have to, in 1948, many of those Arab countries

00:56:34.340 | didn't even have their independence.

00:56:35.480 | So they would kind of, like, send, like, a cavalry

00:56:37.660 | or, like, a people in horses.

00:56:39.460 | But in fact, the whole idea was, like,

00:56:41.340 | we won against seven nations.

00:56:44.260 | The numbers were totally in Israel's favor.

00:56:46.340 | They were better equipped.

00:56:47.460 | They were better trained.

00:56:48.780 | They had, like, more tanks and artillery and aeroplanes.

00:56:53.780 | And they planned better.

00:56:56.800 | So yes, they deserved the win

00:56:58.780 | because they planned and we did it.

00:56:59.620 | - So to you, there was an asymmetry in military power

00:57:02.140 | even then. - Yeah.

00:57:03.300 | - But what do you do with the fact that the war was won?

00:57:06.600 | So, like, if you look at the history of the world,

00:57:09.100 | there is wars fought over land.

00:57:15.820 | I agree with you.

00:57:16.660 | This has been the history of humanity.

00:57:18.420 | Humanity was not living peacefully.

00:57:20.260 | It's all about, like, people taking people

00:57:22.020 | and killing people, taking their land.

00:57:23.780 | But there's two difference here.

00:57:25.840 | Mostly, usually, the conquering power,

00:57:30.840 | like, for example, England.

00:57:33.000 | They had England and they conquer you in India.

00:57:35.380 | And after the occupation finished, they go back to England.

00:57:37.980 | France, Greece, Persia, Egypt, they were, like,

00:57:43.460 | go and expand and shrink, expand and shrink.

00:57:46.220 | It's all been there.

00:57:47.580 | What is different here is exactly what happened

00:57:49.820 | in Australia and the United States.

00:57:52.040 | A group of people came in, not just to conquer

00:57:54.940 | and take the land, but to completely change,

00:57:58.380 | to replace them and get them out or kill them.

00:58:00.480 | It was very easy with the Indians

00:58:01.800 | because they had smallpox, there was no social media,

00:58:04.220 | they did it over 400 years, they had time.

00:58:07.380 | The problem is, what is happening right now,

00:58:10.120 | I agree with you, it might not be that new,

00:58:13.220 | but we are there and we're watching it happen.

00:58:15.540 | - And so now we have to confront the realities

00:58:18.860 | of war and empire and conquering.

00:58:22.180 | - Because you know what's the problem?

00:58:23.420 | We told ourselves we can be better.

00:58:25.660 | - Yeah.

00:58:26.500 | - After 1948, there was the Universal Declaration

00:58:29.500 | of Human Rights.

00:58:31.140 | It means that we are gonna be better humans.

00:58:33.500 | We're not gonna kill and take land,

00:58:35.380 | we're not gonna displace people,

00:58:36.540 | we're not gonna take people for what they are.

00:58:38.360 | There's now laws, there's international laws,

00:58:40.460 | international court of justice.

00:58:42.620 | And now Israel is giving the middle finger to all of them.

00:58:44.940 | - So isn't in some fundamental way,

00:58:46.540 | this whole thing that we're talking about

00:58:49.280 | is us as a civilization on social media,

00:58:52.620 | in articles and books, in newspapers,

00:58:57.620 | we're just trying to figure out who are we as a people.

00:59:01.500 | - I think that the shock came from the fact

00:59:04.100 | that we thought that we as humanity have evolved

00:59:07.740 | and now we are, what have actually changed

00:59:11.780 | is that we became more advanced

00:59:13.460 | in effectively eradicating a group of people

00:59:15.940 | because of the technology that we have.

00:59:17.980 | And the fact that we can do that

00:59:19.540 | under the eyes and ears of all the world

00:59:21.660 | and we are watching it under a phone,

00:59:23.660 | we have a window, we have a window to the war.

00:59:26.180 | You know, 1945, people didn't know what was happening

00:59:29.380 | in Japan, well, we heard about it on the radio.

00:59:32.140 | Like, oh, today our forces came in

00:59:33.740 | and they launched, I don't know.

00:59:35.200 | We don't know, we heard it.

00:59:37.160 | We maybe saw pictures after that and it's quite edited.

00:59:40.060 | But now we see it, we're into it.

00:59:42.580 | And it is so much for our psyche and we can get it.

00:59:47.580 | And it's like, and the Arabs are saying like,

00:59:49.820 | guys, you told us we came to the West

00:59:53.340 | because we were told that we were equal.

00:59:54.860 | You know the university declaration, right?

00:59:56.920 | One of the co-authors, his name is Stefan Hessel.

01:00:00.340 | He's a Jew, he is a survivor of the Holocaust.

01:00:05.700 | And you know what happened to him?

01:00:08.240 | He died, by the way, a couple of years ago.

01:00:09.620 | But he, before he died, he was canceled by so many people

01:00:13.700 | and he was called antisemitic.

01:00:15.960 | Because he joined the BDS movement

01:00:17.640 | and he spoke of Palestine.

01:00:19.520 | That is the author of the universal declaration

01:00:22.600 | of human rights that we value so much

01:00:25.000 | and we think that that would define our humanity.

01:00:27.760 | But then we go in and we are shocked.

01:00:32.160 | It's like, maybe we were sold something.

01:00:35.800 | Maybe that was false advertisement.

01:00:38.320 | - You shared a tweet by an account called Awesome Jew.

01:00:44.160 | (laughing)

01:00:46.760 | It reads, "Islamo-Nazi comedian Bassem Yusuf."

01:00:51.760 | Comedian in quotes, by the way.

01:00:53.560 | - Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, because I'm not funny.

01:00:55.420 | - So Islamo-Nazi comedian Bassem Yusuf is now denying,

01:00:59.200 | I love that you retweeted this like twice.

01:01:02.060 | - Yeah.

01:01:03.200 | - I guess, because it's advertising some upcoming dates.

01:01:06.300 | He's now denying October 7th massacre.

01:01:10.700 | The Muslim radical Bassem Yusuf is notorious

01:01:14.000 | for his radical, radical, said twice,

01:01:16.000 | for his radical hatred of Jews and Israel.

01:01:18.360 | In a recent clip, he claims that the atrocities

01:01:20.900 | committed on October 7th are fabricated

01:01:23.240 | or are looking for all information regarding

01:01:26.440 | any of his upcoming shows, as well as the venues

01:01:29.480 | which host the scumbag would Jews feel safe

01:01:31.640 | around this Nazi, Nazi.

01:01:34.800 | - Yeah.

01:01:35.940 | - I've never, this is my first time interviewing a Nazi.

01:01:39.200 | - You know, it's my first time I actually get called a Nazi.

01:01:41.880 | - First time.

01:01:42.720 | - First time, I have been called so many things in Egypt.

01:01:45.720 | So in Egypt, I was called a CIA operative

01:01:52.360 | a Mossad spy, secret Muslim brotherhood,

01:01:55.600 | a secret Jew, secret Jew.

01:01:58.440 | There was also an article that was published about me

01:02:02.120 | in the state-run media saying in details

01:02:05.080 | how Bassem has been recruited by CIA agents

01:02:10.080 | using Jon Stewart in order to use satire

01:02:12.560 | to bring down the country.

01:02:14.080 | I was a Freemason, an infidel.

01:02:15.960 | A member of the Knights of the Temple,

01:02:22.240 | something like that.

01:02:23.520 | And there's actually people, the Muslim Brotherhood

01:02:26.240 | on their show, they would say like,

01:02:27.480 | he is actually an Israeli and they have forged

01:02:30.240 | an Egyptian ID for him to come.

01:02:32.320 | So it's kind of like when I get,

01:02:35.640 | I said, I had, I left all of that behind

01:02:38.500 | and I come here, it's like, boom, anti-Semitic Nazi, damn.

01:02:41.880 | I mean, I really covered everything.

01:02:43.280 | I don't know what else.

01:02:44.320 | I mean, I think I have, it's kind of like

01:02:46.000 | I'm collecting PhDs.

01:02:47.920 | I'm just like getting like all of these credits.

01:02:51.000 | - How do you deal with that?

01:02:51.840 | How do you deal with the attacks?

01:02:53.440 | I mean, this goes back to the decision

01:02:55.120 | to do the interview with Piers Morgan.

01:02:58.640 | Like how do you like psychologically do all of it?

01:03:03.440 | - These kind of attacks, at the beginning, it's fun.

01:03:07.680 | But when they evolve into something else,

01:03:10.120 | so for example, I was like laughing

01:03:11.520 | of all of the stuff about calling me this,

01:03:13.200 | calling me that, but then when people would come

01:03:15.400 | and thread the feature, because it's not the people

01:03:17.960 | who are making those accusations that would come to you.

01:03:20.880 | It's the people that will hear

01:03:22.160 | and see those accusations and act on it.

01:03:26.040 | And there's always the fear of like,

01:03:28.000 | I mean, we have in the airport a lot of things

01:03:30.160 | that somebody would hear something about someone else

01:03:32.560 | and go kill him and whatever, like anybody else.

01:03:34.760 | So there's this, but somehow I wanna make fun of it.

01:03:38.640 | And it is to be called an Islamo-Nazi,

01:03:44.800 | it must been the funniest thing ever

01:03:48.960 | because it's Islamo-Nazi, wow, how did you?

01:03:53.120 | And a radical Muslim, me, a lot of Islamists hate me.

01:03:56.640 | They will call me a secular infidel.

01:03:58.680 | (laughing)

01:04:00.280 | So it's kind of like, who am I?

01:04:03.000 | Maybe I have an identity crisis

01:04:04.960 | and I need the people to tell me who I am.

01:04:07.040 | - Well, let's go to the beginning.

01:04:09.280 | Let's go to your childhood.

01:04:10.480 | You grew up in Egypt, Cairo, Egypt.

01:04:12.440 | (laughing)

01:04:14.680 | Well, let's figure out how you came to be who you are.

01:04:18.560 | - How did you become an Islamo-Nazi?

01:04:20.320 | - Yeah, exactly, it's a long journey.

01:04:22.760 | I do like the swastika tattoo on your ass,

01:04:25.280 | which I didn't-- (laughing)

01:04:26.400 | - How did you see my ass?

01:04:27.840 | - You know what you did.

01:04:28.800 | - I know what you did.

01:04:30.600 | - It was very inappropriate.

01:04:31.480 | You're also obviously a sexual harasser of me.

01:04:34.280 | (laughing)

01:04:36.160 | - Is this like a me too?

01:04:37.760 | - Yes.

01:04:38.600 | - This is like 2020, someone will come up,

01:04:41.200 | it's like, okay-- - Yeah, we have flip it.

01:04:43.000 | This is your me too moment.

01:04:46.080 | - All right, so Cairo, what's a defining memory,

01:04:51.080 | positive or negative, from your childhood?

01:04:54.880 | - My memory in general was cool, it was cool.

01:04:58.520 | I went to a Catholic school for primary school,

01:05:03.520 | the elementary, and by the time I'd done,

01:05:08.060 | there was kind of like a start of a decline

01:05:11.340 | into the public education, and my parents,

01:05:13.920 | they're like middle-class working officials.

01:05:15.940 | My dad was a judge, my mom was a business professor,

01:05:18.240 | and they were like one of the people who's like,

01:05:20.560 | they didn't have that much luxury.

01:05:22.280 | My dad drove like a regular car, a Fiat,

01:05:26.160 | which is like the equivalent for the Lada in Russia.

01:05:31.160 | - Thank you for speaking to the audience.

01:05:32.720 | - Yeah, yeah, the Lada, and--

01:05:35.720 | - So would that be a good car or bad car?

01:05:38.360 | - No, no, it's kind of like the minimum.

01:05:41.640 | My dad was not like a man of showing off.

01:05:45.280 | Whatever money they would do,

01:05:47.060 | they would put it for us, education,

01:05:49.420 | give everything to their kids.

01:05:50.560 | This is kind of like a very, very typical mentality,

01:05:55.560 | and I'm sure it's in many cultures,

01:05:58.720 | but like we grew up with this,

01:05:59.900 | like everything that we have is left for kids,

01:06:01.580 | so they would put us into education.

01:06:02.840 | So middle school, that was the big,

01:06:06.900 | 1986 was the beginning of the explosion

01:06:10.340 | of like international schools, private schools,

01:06:12.740 | and these schools were relatively expensive.

01:06:15.960 | Of course, now with today's currency, it's ridiculous,

01:06:18.240 | but at that time, it was very expensive.

01:06:20.600 | So I went to that school,

01:06:22.000 | and from, there was this moment was like,

01:06:25.440 | you feel less right away.

01:06:27.440 | I mean, of course, there's the regular bullying and stuff,

01:06:30.400 | but it's not that.

01:06:32.400 | It's kind of like you always feel less.

01:06:34.000 | You don't have that much of like purchasing power

01:06:36.240 | that allow you to go to the same outings

01:06:38.120 | or travel with them, and even like how you dress,

01:06:41.020 | it will be modest compared to them.

01:06:43.120 | So I was always an outsider.

01:06:45.120 | I was, and I compensated with that by two things,

01:06:49.440 | being good at school and being good at sports.

01:06:53.000 | So I was not like the typical nerd who was just like that.

01:06:54.960 | I was like I was playing football, basketball,

01:06:57.800 | crattering field, and I was like one of the,

01:07:00.000 | people would like to have me on their team.

01:07:01.600 | So I wasn't like kind of like,

01:07:03.520 | ah, he's a nerd, get him away.

01:07:05.000 | But I never had a girlfriend.

01:07:06.100 | I never had any kind of like,

01:07:07.640 | it was not like, I was not boyfriend material.

01:07:10.640 | So that's kind of like, it leaves remnants in you

01:07:14.020 | that you're not good enough.

01:07:15.240 | - But psychologically, you're always,

01:07:17.000 | like when you're by yourself, you felt like an outsider.

01:07:19.560 | - Yes, all the time.

01:07:20.400 | And that's why it kind of like, I'm more of a loner.

01:07:22.560 | I don't have a lot of what you call friends.

01:07:24.580 | I have acquaintances, people that I do stuff with,

01:07:26.560 | but I don't have like the people

01:07:27.680 | that I tell them everything.

01:07:28.880 | When I went to medical school,

01:07:29.880 | now medical school is a different animal.

01:07:31.280 | Medical school is where all of the people

01:07:33.320 | from the public schools go.

01:07:35.100 | Public schools are very like, they are not,

01:07:38.840 | they don't have like, they don't have English language

01:07:42.160 | as like a strong partner, but they are brilliant people.

01:07:45.960 | So because they would mostly study in Arabic,

01:07:48.800 | but they are brilliant and they are very, very,

01:07:51.200 | very smart, very sharp.

01:07:52.840 | But then I'll go there, now I am the sissy boy

01:07:56.160 | from the private school that comes into medical school.

01:07:59.800 | Now I'm an outsider again.

01:08:01.840 | And I go into residency and I pick up salsa.

01:08:08.720 | So now I'm a salsa teacher

01:08:10.120 | while being a cardiothoracic surgery resident.

01:08:14.520 | And I'm an outsider for the third time

01:08:16.200 | because in salsa, I'm kind of like the respectful doctor.

01:08:19.400 | And in resident, I'm the guy who is just dancing.

01:08:22.240 | So and everything, of course, as a medical resident,

01:08:24.680 | you will mess up a lot.

01:08:26.240 | So they would always like, oh, because you're a dancer.

01:08:28.360 | Oh, because you don't care about medicine.

01:08:29.720 | You just like wanna go there and dance with women.

01:08:31.960 | (laughing)

01:08:33.280 | Which is true.

01:08:34.120 | - Yeah, it's true.

01:08:34.960 | (laughing)

01:08:37.000 | And so all of my life, I felt that I'm an outsider.

01:08:41.720 | I'm not part of the team.

01:08:42.760 | I'm not part of the core group.

01:08:44.360 | So and I have a story that you would love.

01:08:51.080 | Right before my residency, I was so much into salsa.

01:08:55.120 | So I had all of the money and then you save that.

01:08:57.880 | And I was working summers and I was doing extra jobs.

01:09:00.840 | And I took that money and I went to Miami

01:09:03.520 | in order to learn at Rueda de Cazino,

01:09:07.040 | which is the Cuban kind of like circle salsa kind of thing.

01:09:10.760 | And I went there in the summer of 2001.

01:09:15.280 | And my return ticket was 9/12, 2001.

01:09:20.280 | (laughing)

01:09:22.200 | - Universe has a sense of humor, I gotta tell you that.

01:09:24.400 | - No, no, no, 9/12, I was supposed to be on a plane

01:09:28.400 | coming back to Egypt.

01:09:29.240 | What happens, thank God, I ran out of money

01:09:32.200 | 10 days before that.

01:09:33.040 | So it's like, all right, I changed my ticket

01:09:34.680 | and I came back, 9/11.

01:09:37.960 | I'm kind of like, my mom, "Wake up, wake up, what, what?"

01:09:42.960 | And I see like the two tower phone.

01:09:46.280 | It was like, my mom's like, "Oh, you're here, you're here,

01:09:48.800 | "you're here, thank God, you're here."

01:09:50.440 | And I was like, I could have been in Guantanamo right now.

01:09:55.200 | (laughing)

01:09:57.000 | - Flying at 9/12.

01:09:58.440 | - But by the way, I was in Miami when they went

01:10:00.840 | to the flying school, in Miami.

01:10:02.880 | So, I mean, I had like 9/11 written all over my face.

01:10:07.880 | - You'd be all over the news.

01:10:09.440 | - All over the news, and my mom's like, "What?

01:10:11.760 | "He went there to dance salsa?

01:10:12.960 | "I didn't know that salsa is like a name for terrorism."

01:10:16.080 | (laughing)

01:10:17.400 | - Why salsa?

01:10:18.240 | Why did that attract you?

01:10:20.000 | And what, like, can you explain what salsa is?

01:10:21.720 | So I mentioned to you offline that I've been doing

01:10:24.280 | a little bit of tango, trying to learn it.

01:10:25.760 | - Yeah, like you know, samba, salsa, pachata, merengue,

01:10:29.360 | it's kind of like Latin dances.

01:10:31.200 | And it's like, you know, I don't know how you describe salsa.

01:10:36.200 | Couple dance on Latin beat.

01:10:37.720 | (laughing)

01:10:38.560 | And I did it because I once,

01:10:43.560 | and I talk about that in my Arabic stand-up comedy,

01:10:46.600 | not the English, I talk about like how I was, you know,

01:10:50.400 | I didn't have like really like a great like social life.

01:10:55.280 | And my friends went there one day and I go into a place

01:10:59.320 | which it was called El Ghetto Negro.

01:11:01.520 | No, no, it was called Big Fat Black Pussycat.

01:11:05.240 | And then I think they thought it will be like racist

01:11:09.000 | or something, so it should change it to El Ghetto Negro.

01:11:11.240 | Anyway, so.

01:11:12.080 | (laughing)

01:11:14.640 | - Great, great.

01:11:15.480 | - I know!

01:11:16.320 | - Great decision.

01:11:17.140 | - I know!

01:11:17.980 | So I went there, it's like, "Damn!

01:11:20.040 | "Music and women and my doctor,

01:11:23.560 | "a doctor dancing salsa, that is a cheat magnet."

01:11:26.080 | - Yeah, 100%.

01:11:28.040 | - You know, we do everything for that.

01:11:31.160 | - All of humanity.

01:11:32.000 | - Even power, even money.

01:11:33.600 | - All the wars we've been talking about.

01:11:35.560 | - Women.

01:11:37.080 | - At the end of the day.

01:11:37.920 | - The approval from the other sex.

01:11:39.440 | We are babies, we are terrible people.

01:11:44.120 | So of course, like, I mean, that was like great.

01:11:48.560 | But then I, as a nerd, I went in so hard

01:11:52.840 | and now I became a salsa teacher.

01:11:54.640 | - Yeah.

01:11:55.640 | - And I earned more money from salsa,

01:11:57.360 | more than I did as a doctor's resident.

01:11:59.320 | (laughing)

01:12:00.140 | - I didn't know this part of you, that's hilarious.

01:12:02.040 | - I know, I was making a killing amount of money.

01:12:06.600 | Like, huge amount of money.

01:12:08.760 | And I was just like, you know, I would go finish my shift

01:12:12.000 | and I'd go to the salsa class.

01:12:13.320 | And sometimes I would have like 70 people

01:12:15.020 | in my salsa class.

01:12:16.040 | - Oh, wow.

01:12:16.880 | - I had like the biggest salsa class in Egypt,

01:12:18.560 | in the beginning of 2000, and it was fantastic.

01:12:22.280 | And it was an outlet, because you go there

01:12:24.560 | and there's the shifts and people dying.

01:12:26.720 | Damn, and they go, salsa.

01:12:28.360 | (laughing)

01:12:29.200 | - Can't escape.

01:12:30.560 | You must have been good.

01:12:31.880 | - I was okay.

01:12:32.760 | I was cool, I was fun.

01:12:33.920 | There were people better than me,

01:12:35.300 | but I have a thing about teaching.

01:12:37.960 | I like teaching people.

01:12:39.120 | - So you mentioned heart surgery.

01:12:41.240 | So what motivated you to become a doctor?

01:12:43.680 | - It was a choice of exclusion.

01:12:46.280 | I mean, there's nothing else you can do

01:12:47.640 | with these high grades other than doctorate in engineering.

01:12:49.640 | I hate math, so go be a doctor.

01:12:51.180 | (laughing)

01:12:54.400 | This is the Middle East.

01:12:55.280 | What do you expect?

01:12:56.120 | It's either, like in my joke in my show,

01:12:58.680 | I said like there's, it can be one of three things

01:13:01.040 | in the Middle East, a doctor, an engineer,

01:13:02.720 | or a disappointment.

01:13:03.800 | It is, that is the choices that you have.

01:13:06.000 | (laughing)

01:13:08.500 | So years after, I'm a disappointment.

01:13:11.600 | (laughing)

01:13:13.000 | - Here I am.

01:13:14.240 | - You're damn good at it, though.

01:13:15.600 | (laughing)

01:13:17.400 | That's a hard path, though.

01:13:18.760 | - Yeah.

01:13:19.600 | - And it's a fascinating one.

01:13:22.040 | - Can I tell you something?

01:13:22.880 | - Yes.

01:13:23.700 | - I was thinking about why did I actually go into medicine,

01:13:26.240 | and why did I always choose the hardest thing,

01:13:28.400 | although I didn't love it?

01:13:29.700 | And I have to tell you,

01:13:31.880 | I had an epiphany only two weeks ago.

01:13:33.800 | And I don't know if that's actually related or not.

01:13:37.600 | You know, remember when I told you I went to this school,

01:13:40.520 | and I didn't have that much money.

01:13:42.720 | And I didn't have the luxury of time or money

01:13:45.520 | to be with those people and do what they do.

01:13:48.420 | So by the time I finished school,

01:13:50.840 | and everybody was going to university,

01:13:52.240 | oh, everybody in my school went to the AUC,

01:13:55.680 | the American University in Cairo, of course, private, yeah.

01:13:59.360 | Like American education, party time.

01:14:03.080 | I mean, of course, they're brilliant and everything,

01:14:04.440 | but they have, yeah, they have a different social life.

01:14:09.000 | And part of me, now I kind of like,

01:14:11.840 | I realized that just like very, very recently.

01:14:15.920 | Maybe I went to the hardest school ever,

01:14:20.880 | so I don't have space to use other than studying.

01:14:25.880 | Because if I have that much space,

01:14:28.000 | what I'm gonna do with it?

01:14:29.400 | I don't have that much freedom, I don't have that much money,

01:14:31.320 | I can't compete with those people going out,

01:14:33.440 | so maybe I need a solid excuse that I'm in a place

01:14:38.240 | where I don't have that much of a spare time.

01:14:40.480 | - Is it also possible, I like how this is a therapy session

01:14:43.880 | where we're psychoanalyzing, is it also possible

01:14:46.280 | that you always just pick the hardest thing

01:14:48.480 | you could possibly do?

01:14:50.600 | - Maybe, but--

01:14:52.200 | - Maybe that's the Piers Morgan thing, too.

01:14:54.400 | - Maybe, but like when I left Egypt and I came here,

01:14:57.920 | I still had the choice to go back to medicine.

01:15:00.360 | - Sure. - But I hated it.

01:15:01.880 | I hated it, medicine traumatized me.

01:15:04.420 | The amount of like, you give up,

01:15:06.420 | you know my brother in Egypt, he had a daughter,

01:15:09.360 | she's a brilliant basketball player.

01:15:10.800 | She is in the national team, amazing.

01:15:13.840 | I used to play basketball also in the Egyptian league,

01:15:16.280 | but I never, I was kind of like,

01:15:17.680 | my favorite position in the court was the bench,

01:15:20.680 | and I was not as good as her, but she,

01:15:25.120 | and then it was time for her to go into college,

01:15:30.120 | and he didn't talk to me for six weeks.

01:15:32.840 | I said, "Tamir, what's happening to Farida?

01:15:35.440 | "Which college?"

01:15:36.280 | Like, I didn't wanna tell you, she went into medicine.

01:15:38.100 | I said, "What, medicine, why did he do?"

01:15:40.160 | Because he knows how I hated it.

01:15:41.720 | I was traumatized, and I said like,

01:15:44.400 | "Dude, she's a basketball player.

01:15:46.140 | "Make her go like to an easy school."

01:15:48.560 | So that's kind of--

01:15:49.820 | - You still did it, you still did it.

01:15:51.600 | - Yeah, I still did it, but I don't know,

01:15:53.080 | is it because of the difficulty,

01:15:55.160 | or because of what I told you?

01:15:58.120 | Maybe I needed something.

01:15:59.840 | Maybe because I was not very confident in my social life,

01:16:03.960 | so I needed a distraction,

01:16:05.320 | not to have that much of a social life.

01:16:07.880 | - Oh, wow, okay.

01:16:09.160 | - You understand?

01:16:10.000 | - Yeah, uh-huh.

01:16:10.840 | - It's kind of love,

01:16:11.680 | because I will always have an excuse, I'm studying.

01:16:13.200 | I have something, I have exams.

01:16:14.720 | And I don't know, I kind of self-sabotaged my own thing,

01:16:17.540 | because I couldn't compete with those people

01:16:22.100 | on the outing, and the money, and whatever,

01:16:24.040 | so I need an excuse to be like,

01:16:25.380 | "Oh, he's a doctor, he's studying."

01:16:26.620 | - At least in your own mind, you couldn't compete.

01:16:28.780 | - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:16:30.180 | I always felt as less,

01:16:32.820 | because I didn't have any girlfriends in school.

01:16:36.180 | I had it very late in life.

01:16:37.420 | Everything to me came to life,

01:16:38.820 | so I always felt, even stand-up comedy,

01:16:42.260 | it came very late to me in life.

01:16:43.640 | So I always feel that I'm not good enough.

01:16:46.100 | I feel that I didn't spend the time

01:16:48.980 | to build the foundation that other comedians do,

01:16:51.900 | so I always feel that I am too lucky.

01:16:55.180 | I always feel that this is a fleeting thing.

01:16:59.060 | And when I went, had the height and the fall in Egypt,

01:17:03.780 | when I went like, the top of everything,

01:17:06.140 | I was like, so famous,

01:17:08.140 | and then everything was taken away from me.

01:17:09.500 | That's like, "Ah, you see?

01:17:10.780 | "I told you, that happens when you don't build foundation,

01:17:13.680 | "you fall."

01:17:14.520 | So I always feel that I am not good enough,

01:17:18.560 | or if I am in a position where people think I am,

01:17:21.440 | deep inside, I am not.

01:17:22.700 | You know that I have a speech impediment

01:17:24.060 | that I was not meant to be a TV presenter.

01:17:28.040 | I have an, in Arabic, it's very obvious.

01:17:30.380 | I cannot roll my R's.

01:17:31.740 | I cannot say, "Er," I cannot roll it.

01:17:35.640 | So in Arabic, like Spanish, it's very obvious.

01:17:38.940 | So when I did my first video on the internet

01:17:40.940 | that made me famous,

01:17:41.780 | and then I got my television deal back there in Egypt,

01:17:45.060 | my partner at the time, he took the video,

01:17:46.940 | and he went to a producer and said like,

01:17:48.560 | "Are you giving me a guy with a lisp?"

01:17:51.540 | He couldn't, he should,

01:17:52.460 | that's why when I came on television,

01:17:53.740 | I was the first ever guy with a lisp.

01:17:55.580 | I had two things going for me, the lisp and the big nose.

01:17:57.940 | And I was always bullied for these two all the time,

01:18:01.240 | so I always felt less.

01:18:03.180 | - See, but that's the foundation of like,

01:18:05.580 | creating a great person.

01:18:07.180 | - Yeah.

01:18:08.580 | - Because if you're pretty,

01:18:09.920 | you don't need to do much.

01:18:13.140 | - I probably wouldn't recommend it,

01:18:15.860 | but it is true that--

01:18:18.500 | - So if you are pretty, do some disfigurement.

01:18:21.380 | - Find the flaws and be extremely self-critical about them.

01:18:28.380 | So you saw Jon Stewart on TV for the first time in 2003,

01:18:34.820 | I believe.

01:18:35.860 | How did that change your life?

01:18:37.780 | - I was in a gym and I was running on the treadmill.

01:18:40.860 | And at that time, CNN was coming out on cable.

01:18:45.240 | And I was watching and there is this studio,

01:18:51.540 | I don't know what it is.

01:18:52.380 | So I put the earphones on and I started watching.

01:18:57.340 | And I was so taken by this that I stopped the treadmill

01:19:01.380 | and I just like stood for the 20 minutes like this

01:19:04.860 | on the treadmill and I just like standing there.

01:19:07.860 | I didn't know what he was saying.

01:19:10.220 | I didn't understand what is Democrats,

01:19:11.580 | what is Republicans, those names that he's saying,

01:19:14.900 | what is Fox News, I don't understand.

01:19:17.220 | But I was fascinated.

01:19:19.260 | There was something, you know when you don't understand

01:19:21.120 | the music but you get the rhythm?

01:19:22.860 | It was that.

01:19:23.940 | - I wonder what that is that you saw.

01:19:25.980 | It's like the timing of the humor.

01:19:27.580 | I mean, Jon Stewart is one of a kind.

01:19:31.300 | His biting criticism of power, I would say,

01:19:36.300 | and also ability to highlight the absurdity of it all.

01:19:38.980 | - But you understand, I didn't understand any of that.

01:19:40.500 | But I didn't understand any of the references.

01:19:42.900 | But it is the rhythm, the rhythm.

01:19:45.820 | You know sometimes when you even see like a comedy,

01:19:50.240 | that's a language you don't understand,

01:19:52.140 | but there's a rhythm, ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta.

01:19:54.740 | Boom, boom, there's something,

01:19:56.140 | there's something in the music.

01:19:58.140 | So there's something with the videos and the pictures

01:20:00.980 | and he and the face and people reacting.

01:20:03.340 | - Yeah. - What is this?

01:20:04.660 | (laughing)

01:20:05.500 | What is this? - Yeah, yeah.

01:20:06.720 | - What is this?

01:20:07.560 | And we had the global edition.

01:20:09.740 | So I went to their YouTube and I just like started

01:20:11.700 | to kind of like watch every single episode that I can.

01:20:14.700 | I said like, "Do you think we can have this in Egypt?"

01:20:17.100 | I said, "Nah, never."

01:20:18.820 | And then 2011, like I had a friend of mine

01:20:23.420 | who was also a YouTube partner,

01:20:24.820 | it was something new at the time.

01:20:26.060 | He said like, "Let's do something on the internet.

01:20:27.340 | "Let's do something."

01:20:28.180 | I said, "I wanna do with Jon Stewart."

01:20:29.220 | He's like, "No, no, no, no, do Ray William Johnson.

01:20:31.560 | "Jon Stewart will not work."

01:20:32.740 | I was like, "Ah, I want to do Jon Stewart."

01:20:35.340 | - So that was in there.

01:20:36.220 | - Yeah, it was in there.

01:20:37.500 | And I did it and it worked.

01:20:42.260 | - Can you talk about 2011?

01:20:43.340 | I mean, what is it, the Arab Spring?

01:20:45.660 | What is it?

01:20:46.500 | People here in America, you know.

01:20:49.460 | (laughing)

01:20:51.140 | - Depends on which side--

01:20:52.420 | - Did something happen or what?

01:20:54.420 | - Depends which side of the equation you are

01:20:58.660 | because for a lot of people, it's a conspiracy.

01:21:00.460 | It's American-made.

01:21:01.620 | It is the Muslim Brotherhood, it's the Islamists,

01:21:04.020 | it is Israel, it is everything else other than people.

01:21:07.060 | Oh, but it's a pure revolution, it's a pure...

01:21:09.460 | I think we put too much weight on conspiracies.

01:21:15.360 | I think it is normal human behavior

01:21:18.140 | that then become, get maybe used or abused

01:21:21.440 | or taken advantage of by other powers

01:21:23.500 | and then the conspiracy starts.

01:21:26.540 | But at the time, the Arab Spring didn't start in Egypt.

01:21:30.300 | It started in Tunisia.

01:21:32.220 | Bouazizi, a fruit vendor, burned himself up

01:21:36.540 | like the American soldiers who did that a few days ago.

01:21:40.420 | And that kind of sparked protests in Tunisia.

01:21:44.300 | And Ben Ali was a dictator in Tunisia

01:21:47.020 | for about like 20 years and they removed him.

01:21:50.760 | So suddenly, it was kind of like a domino effect.

01:21:53.640 | So then Egypt started and it just took 18 days.

01:21:57.840 | And you know, people, hindsight is 20/20,

01:22:00.080 | since like Mubarak became like a burden on the military,

01:22:03.700 | because the military are the real rulers of the country.

01:22:06.860 | You might have a president

01:22:08.000 | that kind of like have certain powers,

01:22:09.340 | but at the end of the day,

01:22:10.560 | when the military sees that a certain president

01:22:12.760 | is like too much of a burden, too much of like a,

01:22:15.600 | you know, so they cut him off.

01:22:17.280 | - And Mubarak is the leader of Egypt at that time.

01:22:19.400 | - He was there for 30 years.

01:22:20.720 | - 30 years.

01:22:21.540 | By the way, speaking of which, 'cause it was a joke

01:22:23.280 | in your Mark Twain speech.

01:22:24.920 | I got teary-eyed just watching that.

01:22:27.360 | That was just great.

01:22:28.200 | You're like fucking great.

01:22:30.480 | Like what you did doing Mark Twain awards

01:22:32.160 | for Jon Stewart, it's great.

01:22:33.240 | I mean, your comedy is great in general.

01:22:35.960 | And I wanted to go to your show, I definitely will.

01:22:39.240 | But that's like a little stroll in the complete tangent

01:22:42.320 | of just the masterful introduction

01:22:44.020 | and celebration of Jon Stewart.

01:22:45.720 | Anyway, Mubarak.

01:22:46.960 | - Yeah, so it's a joke that I say also,

01:22:50.600 | like Mubarak was a president for 30 years.

01:22:52.760 | Like, oh my God, you had a president for 30 years?

01:22:54.280 | Like it's the Middle East, it's a very short first term.

01:22:56.640 | It's like, we're still warming up, baby.

01:22:58.400 | - Just warming up.

01:22:59.240 | - And I thought of like, we need to plan ahead.

01:23:00.800 | We need to plan our vacations, our careers, our jail time.

01:23:04.960 | It's just like, we need to.

01:23:06.160 | (laughing)

01:23:07.920 | - That's great.

01:23:09.000 | - So.

01:23:09.840 | - That's true.

01:23:10.680 | - So we had kind of like the shortest,

01:23:13.000 | nicest revolution, 18 days.

01:23:15.080 | And we thought, oh, 18 days,

01:23:16.200 | we can change the country in 18 days.

01:23:17.400 | So, but of course, we were naive

01:23:18.960 | and we had this kind of hope.

01:23:20.680 | So Mubarak was removed.

01:23:22.160 | It was an interim period by the military,

01:23:25.120 | took it for one year.

01:23:25.960 | Then they did elections, Muslim Brotherhood came to power.

01:23:28.760 | They stayed for one year and then the military removed them.

01:23:34.720 | And in these three years, my show started.

01:23:38.520 | It started by kind of like a YouTube video.

01:23:41.760 | - It became famous overnight.

01:23:43.360 | - Overnight.

01:23:44.680 | Five to six videos, boom, went out.

01:23:46.960 | And at that time, I was waiting to get my clearance

01:23:51.160 | to go to Cleveland.

01:23:52.480 | I was accepted in a fellowship

01:23:54.960 | as a pediatric heart surgery in a hospital in Cleveland.

01:23:58.560 | And I said, all right, I'm just gonna do a couple of videos.

01:24:01.360 | Maybe I'm gonna put it on the internet.

01:24:02.720 | And maybe after a year or two,

01:24:04.080 | after I come back from the fellowship,

01:24:05.240 | somebody will come, hey, why don't you write a show

01:24:06.880 | that looks like John Stewart?

01:24:08.160 | That was my main.

01:24:09.520 | Took five weeks.

01:24:10.680 | I had my first contract of television.

01:24:14.040 | And overnight, the exposure.

01:24:16.840 | And over the next two, three years,

01:24:18.760 | I had 30 to 40 million people watching every episode.

01:24:23.760 | A lot of people are like, wow, that's too much.

01:24:26.400 | That is terrifying.

01:24:27.920 | - Yeah.

01:24:28.760 | - Because it means that there are 30 million people

01:24:30.400 | who have an opinion about you.

01:24:32.200 | - Yeah.

01:24:33.040 | You said there's a lot of aspects of that sudden fame

01:24:36.520 | that were just horrible.

01:24:37.360 | - It's toxic.

01:24:38.200 | It's toxic.

01:24:39.040 | It's unnatural.

01:24:39.880 | It's unnatural.

01:24:40.760 | When people started to recognize me in the street

01:24:42.840 | and take pictures, I was awkward.

01:24:44.280 | Like, why do you wanna have a picture with me?

01:24:46.400 | Why?

01:24:47.440 | Is it because I didn't feel that I'm worthy enough

01:24:50.200 | to be like a reward for someone to have a picture?

01:24:52.560 | And I didn't understand it.

01:24:53.440 | I was actually, I was kind of an ass sometimes

01:24:55.760 | because people thought it was arrogance.

01:24:57.400 | No, it was confusion.

01:24:59.720 | And I remember, like, my director and my producers

01:25:02.320 | and people around, they always saw me in a very bad mood.

01:25:07.320 | It's like, why are you not enjoying this?

01:25:09.960 | It's like, because this is not natural.

01:25:11.920 | This is not natural.

01:25:13.480 | This adoration, this love, and this have to end somehow.

01:25:16.680 | And it did.

01:25:17.960 | And because at a certain point, you are human.

01:25:22.480 | And people kind of, the adoration and the fun

01:25:26.400 | and the love comes because they see you saying stuff

01:25:30.040 | because you do your job, basically.

01:25:31.920 | Political satire is basically us making fun

01:25:34.360 | of politicians in the media.

01:25:35.880 | And a lot of people have a lot of really strong opinions

01:25:38.480 | about politicians in the media.

01:25:39.680 | So we came that, we articulate that,

01:25:42.000 | and we give it to them and we make them laugh.

01:25:43.800 | So for them, we made a great job.

01:25:45.840 | So why don't you do more?

01:25:48.080 | But you are limited.

01:25:50.400 | And at a certain time, you can't.

01:25:52.360 | And at a certain time, you're afraid because we're humans.

01:25:55.880 | Because you're afraid about, like,

01:25:56.960 | if I continue speaking up,

01:25:58.400 | not like something will happen to me.

01:25:59.920 | I'm kind of like, maybe have some protection

01:26:02.360 | because people see me.

01:26:05.960 | But what are the people around you?

01:26:07.760 | - Mm-hmm.

01:26:08.840 | - And I've seen that.

01:26:09.920 | So that's why at a certain point, it's like, that's it.

01:26:12.320 | I can't.

01:26:13.240 | - I mean, there's a lot of things to say there,

01:26:14.760 | but one of the difficult things of fame in your situation

01:26:18.640 | is you're not just having fun, you're criticizing power.

01:26:21.960 | - Yeah, and it is loved by the people,

01:26:26.040 | but it comes with a price because at a certain,

01:26:28.640 | if the power is too strong and you are not into a situation

01:26:32.160 | or a system that allows that,

01:26:34.960 | that gives you that kind of safety.

01:26:37.000 | - So what happened?

01:26:38.440 | (laughing)

01:26:39.520 | - What happened, I was, so when,

01:26:43.760 | so the height of my fame,

01:26:46.680 | when the Muslim Brotherhood was in power,

01:26:49.840 | and at that time, they had their media,

01:26:52.080 | and I had one show.

01:26:53.160 | I had like one hour per week,

01:26:54.600 | and they had five channels, 24/7,

01:26:58.040 | and they were like, you know,

01:26:59.480 | Jon Stewart said it beautifully once.

01:27:02.240 | It's like, we say shit and you say shit,

01:27:04.480 | and we just say shit better than you.

01:27:06.360 | (laughing)

01:27:07.200 | This is exactly what Jon Stewart was like.

01:27:08.320 | We're just better,

01:27:09.160 | we're real better at saying shit back and forth.

01:27:11.200 | - Yeah.

01:27:12.040 | - So basically, I had one hour,

01:27:13.120 | and they had like the five thing that they were like,

01:27:14.800 | you know, they're calling me all kinds of names,

01:27:16.240 | not just me, like all their enemies, you know,

01:27:19.280 | and then I just had one hour,

01:27:20.520 | and I would kind of like annihilate them in one hour a week.

01:27:23.680 | So at a certain point,

01:27:25.880 | they would even like kind of be side with the army

01:27:30.120 | against the kind of, the liberal sectors,

01:27:34.360 | whatever you call it,

01:27:35.200 | and at a certain point,

01:27:36.040 | the army kind of like flipped everybody.

01:27:38.440 | - What do you mean?

01:27:39.280 | - Like kind of like they made,

01:27:40.360 | they removed the Muslim Brotherhood,

01:27:43.320 | they came to power,

01:27:44.360 | and we, I have to say,

01:27:46.720 | I admit it, I supported that in the beginning

01:27:48.640 | because I had daily threats,

01:27:51.360 | I was actually interrogated

01:27:53.600 | and arrested under the Muslim Brotherhood.

01:27:55.000 | I was in an interrogation for six hours,

01:27:57.800 | and they were asking about my jokes,

01:27:59.560 | and I used that in my stand-up comedy,

01:28:01.040 | describing exactly what happened in the six hours,

01:28:03.120 | and it is so funny.

01:28:03.960 | (laughing)

01:28:04.800 | - Okay, well, it's hilarious.

01:28:07.560 | (laughing)

01:28:09.680 | It's slowed down.

01:28:10.520 | You were interrogated by the Muslim Brotherhood.

01:28:12.920 | - The general prosecutor,

01:28:13.920 | the general prosecutor,

01:28:14.760 | and it was based because of complaints

01:28:17.080 | by the officials in the government

01:28:19.280 | because in order for the general prosecutor to do it,

01:28:21.080 | it has to have a high-up mandate

01:28:23.360 | to bring that person to questioning.

01:28:25.000 | - So they went through kind of official channels?

01:28:27.560 | - Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.

01:28:28.720 | - So it's all--

01:28:29.560 | - Yeah, it was official.

01:28:30.440 | It was legal.

01:28:31.640 | - Very legal.

01:28:32.480 | - So I went there and I asked,

01:28:35.840 | and it's kind of like a bunch of like insulting Islam,

01:28:38.320 | insulting presidents, spreading false rumors,

01:28:40.560 | and I went there and it was funny

01:28:42.320 | because I go into the building

01:28:44.040 | where there's police officers and their judges,

01:28:46.040 | and all of them are big fans of the show.

01:28:48.120 | (laughing)

01:28:49.320 | And some of them were taking pictures of me,

01:28:51.280 | and then I'm sitting there

01:28:52.360 | and it was the most ridiculous interview ever

01:28:54.680 | because he was asking me about my jokes.

01:28:57.120 | It's like, "What did you mean by this joke?"

01:28:58.320 | And it's like, "Nothing."

01:28:59.480 | (laughing)

01:29:01.200 | It was there for six hours.

01:29:03.600 | - He's just reading your jokes back to you.

01:29:04.600 | - He was reading my joke,

01:29:06.120 | and he's reading the jokes,

01:29:07.040 | and the junior judge is sitting there like cracking up.

01:29:10.960 | It's like, "I remember that."

01:29:12.520 | It's like, "Guys, guys!"

01:29:14.520 | - That's dark.

01:29:16.600 | - It's kind of like, and I'm laughing,

01:29:19.360 | but in the same time,

01:29:20.200 | it's like the whole situation is ridiculous.

01:29:22.120 | But then at the end, I was released on bail,

01:29:24.280 | so I went back to my show, and I make fun of that.

01:29:27.800 | And you have to be honest,

01:29:29.320 | the Muslim Brotherhood were in power,

01:29:30.760 | but Egypt were like right out of the revolution

01:29:33.440 | for there was kind of like an equal spread of power

01:29:37.440 | between the people.

01:29:38.280 | There was not like someone would come in and just like,

01:29:40.760 | the Muslim Brotherhood didn't have that power yet,

01:29:42.920 | but they were kind of,

01:29:44.280 | people saw that they were moving towards that.

01:29:46.440 | And then the tension rose,

01:29:47.800 | and then there was like a kind of a confrontation

01:29:50.200 | between them and the army,

01:29:51.400 | and then a lot of people were killed in the street.

01:29:53.240 | It was terrible massacre.

01:29:54.840 | And then suddenly, I am blamed for all of that.

01:29:58.680 | It's like, "You made fun of us,

01:30:00.400 | "so now it made it easier for people to kill us."

01:30:02.560 | Like, "Dude, come on, you're doing that to me too.

01:30:04.800 | "I just did it better than you."

01:30:06.240 | And the fact that you sided with the same people

01:30:08.680 | that flipped against you, that's not my fault.

01:30:11.560 | - Did you criticize the army at all?

01:30:13.160 | - Yeah, so after that show,

01:30:14.760 | I did like one episode against the army,

01:30:16.440 | and I was canceled the next day.

01:30:18.240 | And then I went to another channel,

01:30:19.560 | did 16 episodes in a different season,

01:30:22.200 | and it was like, I was walking on eggshells.

01:30:25.000 | And then that was canceled again.

01:30:27.080 | And then the production company that was doing my show,

01:30:29.840 | that we severed ties because we didn't have the show.

01:30:33.400 | They had their offices raided.

01:30:35.160 | They have people having death threats.

01:30:36.880 | So I woke up one day, 11th of November, 2014,

01:30:41.360 | and my lawyer said, "Leave the country right now.

01:30:44.480 | "There is this legal case that they're coming for you."

01:30:49.480 | But I said, "It was an arbitration case,

01:30:51.640 | "and I lost against the channel that basically canceled me."

01:30:56.160 | And I said, "But there's no jail time in arbitration."

01:30:59.320 | I was like, "Yeah, tell that to the judges, leave."

01:31:02.280 | So I jumped on a plane.

01:31:03.960 | The verdict was 12 noon, 11th November, 5 afternoon.

01:31:07.320 | I was on a plane, left Egypt,

01:31:08.520 | and I never came back since then.

01:31:10.160 | - Was there a worry of non-legal things like assassination?

01:31:16.320 | - I can tell you something.

01:31:20.320 | I was so stressed because of the show,

01:31:22.600 | because of everything.

01:31:23.800 | I sometimes, I would wake up in the morning,

01:31:25.920 | and I hope that a bullet will come and finish everything

01:31:28.360 | because I was so stressed.

01:31:30.160 | It's like, I would love,

01:31:31.440 | because I'm too much of a chicken to kill myself,

01:31:34.600 | so I would rather have someone else do it for me.

01:31:37.480 | So I was under so much pressure,

01:31:42.480 | and I remember the day that my show was canceled

01:31:45.800 | indefinitely, the second time, under the army.

01:31:48.520 | And I was like, (sighs)

01:31:51.720 | I don't have to worry about what kind of script

01:31:53.560 | I have to write next week.

01:31:55.520 | Because this is, you know,

01:31:56.400 | I remember when you asked me about that tweet,

01:31:58.880 | but all of those, this accusation doesn't bother me.

01:32:02.240 | Infidel spy, a secret Jew, Zionist,

01:32:06.220 | Islamo-Nazi, that's bullshit.

01:32:09.400 | What is really, what really leaves a mark

01:32:13.040 | is the criticism to your craft and your work.

01:32:15.860 | So if you're not funny, it goes deeper.

01:32:19.680 | - Yeah, certain things get to you better than others,

01:32:23.280 | especially if you have a secret suspicion

01:32:27.060 | that you are maybe not funny.

01:32:29.400 | - Maybe I'm not, because I was put into that,

01:32:31.520 | because that toasts to your insecurities.

01:32:33.360 | Like, I know, but you shouldn't say it out loud.

01:32:36.240 | (laughing)

01:32:37.440 | - You shouldn't say the truth out loud.

01:32:39.160 | - You shouldn't say it out loud.

01:32:40.000 | Like, give it to yourself. (laughing)

01:32:42.480 | - But what about the weight of the responsibility

01:32:45.560 | of speaking truth to power?

01:32:47.660 | So like walking on eggshells, what did that feel like?

01:32:51.020 | - Well, after the Muslim Brotherhood were removed,

01:32:56.020 | you have to understand, like when the military coup happened,

01:32:58.280 | it was a very popular coup.

01:33:00.280 | Like, people loved the army.

01:33:02.200 | In Egypt, the army is more sacred than the religion.

01:33:05.440 | People love the army, but the army can go on and on.

01:33:08.120 | So me going against the army was,

01:33:10.760 | I mean, the Muslim Brotherhood was not very popular.

01:33:12.600 | They were popular for their own basis.

01:33:15.080 | But people accepted the fact that we make fun of them.

01:33:18.000 | But Sisi, at that time, he was a god.

01:33:20.640 | And I used to go to this high-class club called Gizira Club.

01:33:25.480 | And this is basically kind of like the,

01:33:28.200 | kind of upper-middle-class, upper-class kind of people.

01:33:31.340 | And during that year of the Muslim Brotherhood,

01:33:34.440 | I was the most popular ever.

01:33:36.600 | People come, yeah!

01:33:38.600 | When the military came in, people were walking to me,

01:33:41.280 | like pointing their fingers, like,

01:33:43.040 | "Don't speak about Sisi, don't speak about the army, huh?

01:33:45.560 | "We love you now, but don't you," they were like that.

01:33:49.080 | So I called John Stewart, I was like,

01:33:50.160 | "I don't know what to do."

01:33:52.120 | I don't know what to do.

01:33:53.320 | And at that time, all of the channels were closed down,

01:33:57.660 | all of the independent, I was the only one left

01:34:00.040 | because it was difficult for them to get rid of me

01:34:02.480 | very quickly because I was too popular.

01:34:05.120 | It was kind of like piecemealing, kind of like going.

01:34:09.000 | And I remember, I was like, "I don't know what to do."

01:34:12.560 | He said, "You don't have to do anything,

01:34:13.860 | "just your safety comes first."

01:34:16.640 | And I said, "But I can't, I mean,

01:34:17.720 | "I've been doing that for two years

01:34:19.420 | "and I cannot just like say, bye-bye, guys.

01:34:22.420 | "I have a responsibility, I have a team,

01:34:23.780 | "I have people working for me.

01:34:25.280 | "And I also, I cannot just like disappear."

01:34:29.860 | And he said the most interesting thing ever,

01:34:35.160 | and say, "If you're afraid of something,

01:34:37.320 | "make fun about the fact that you're afraid of it

01:34:40.980 | "instead of talking about that something."

01:34:43.400 | - Yeah.

01:34:44.240 | - So there was like a whole episode

01:34:45.920 | that we did not even mention Cici.

01:34:48.480 | We did not even mention him,

01:34:49.400 | but the videos did all the thing.

01:34:50.840 | And the whole episode was me

01:34:52.800 | trying to avoid talking about him.

01:34:55.600 | And that how the comedy was created.

01:34:58.480 | The fact that I don't wanna be here,

01:35:01.000 | and I don't know, so he said like,

01:35:02.600 | "If you will be surprised how people can relate to that,"

01:35:06.000 | because there was a lot of kind of like,

01:35:07.440 | "Oh, we love him, but we feel we cannot speak."

01:35:11.480 | So just by doing the simple thing

01:35:13.080 | about mirroring the society,

01:35:15.880 | that goes a long way.

01:35:18.080 | And I kind of tried to do what I can under the military.

01:35:23.920 | I mean, they came up with (laughs)

01:35:27.040 | a machine that treats AIDS and hepatitis C virus,

01:35:32.040 | and basically every single,

01:35:34.880 | and I went to town with that.

01:35:39.480 | Because people think it doesn't really have to go

01:35:42.760 | to the bigger posts, like, "You're an asshole."

01:35:45.520 | No, you talk about their propaganda.

01:35:48.960 | You talk about what they want people to perceive them at.

01:35:52.100 | And it's a failure.

01:35:55.240 | And for that, that kind of hit them even more.

01:35:57.920 | Because what do authoritarian figures do?

01:36:01.400 | They work on two things, fear and propaganda.

01:36:05.840 | And from that, it gets the respect.

01:36:07.800 | So when you go into their propaganda and expose them,

01:36:10.040 | they have nothing else.

01:36:11.120 | - That's brilliant.

01:36:11.960 | Like, you are walking on eggshells,

01:36:13.360 | but you're doing it masterfully.

01:36:15.440 | That you're revealing sort of the flaws in the propaganda,

01:36:18.320 | the absurdity of the propaganda,

01:36:19.520 | and in so doing, you're criticizing them.

01:36:21.280 | - And this is why comedy is very specific.

01:36:23.720 | Because people say, "You were not as hard on him

01:36:26.480 | "as you were on the Muslim Brotherhood."

01:36:27.320 | It's like, "Yes, because on the Muslim Brotherhood,

01:36:28.700 | "we were just like saying shit to each other."

01:36:31.560 | But now, the ceiling was like here.

01:36:34.900 | So it's kind of like, how can you do something from here?

01:36:37.320 | - Yeah, exactly.

01:36:38.200 | That's the art form.

01:36:39.320 | - Yeah, and in the Soviet Union, under Stalin,

01:36:41.720 | a lot of the criticism came from like children stories

01:36:47.880 | and children's cartoons.

01:36:51.000 | - Double meaning, double in the window stuff.

01:36:53.180 | That means other stuff.

01:36:54.440 | That is the brilliance.

01:36:56.440 | - But everyone knows.

01:36:59.000 | - Everyone knows.

01:37:00.480 | - Because you are like putting a mirror.

01:37:02.360 | You're mirroring the society.

01:37:03.320 | It's fascinating, actually.

01:37:04.160 | - And that's why I was canceled twice.

01:37:05.600 | (laughing)

01:37:07.640 | - And that is a scary one.

01:37:08.960 | The army, you see that in Ukraine.

01:37:11.520 | Everybody supports the army.

01:37:13.800 | That's why Zelensky getting rid of the head of the army

01:37:17.760 | was a big, big deal.

01:37:19.800 | It's a really dangerous thing.

01:37:21.400 | 'Cause everyone's afraid to say anything negative

01:37:24.360 | about the army, especially during war, in that case.

01:37:28.180 | And in this case, maybe there's civil war,

01:37:29.720 | that kind of thing.

01:37:30.560 | - But think about it.

01:37:31.380 | Actually, an army during peace is much more dangerous.

01:37:34.000 | Because think about it.

01:37:35.960 | I don't really have an enemy to fight,

01:37:37.520 | but I have all of this power, all of this tank.

01:37:40.120 | Why does this actor have more money than me?

01:37:42.280 | I'm protecting him.

01:37:45.220 | Why does this businessman think that he can get

01:37:47.920 | on his private plane and go to Paris?

01:37:50.640 | And why I'm here sitting, not having all of these things?

01:37:54.640 | And there's a lot of time on your hand,

01:37:56.320 | because your job is to go fight.

01:38:00.280 | When you don't go fight, and when you have the lack of,

01:38:03.140 | that's one of the things I love the United States about,

01:38:06.840 | is the fact that the army cannot really get power,

01:38:08.800 | but the kind of like, the army is,

01:38:11.100 | the power is actually in the military industrial complex,

01:38:13.080 | which is a different thing.

01:38:13.920 | - Yeah.

01:38:14.740 | (laughing)

01:38:15.580 | - It's kind of like a different kind of issue.

01:38:17.320 | But if you have all of that power,

01:38:18.520 | like why am I sitting around just like playing guard

01:38:21.840 | for you guys?

01:38:22.720 | - That's why Iran is terrifying,

01:38:24.240 | 'cause you have this military that just becomes

01:38:26.860 | a police force that turns against its own people.

01:38:28.880 | - Yeah.

01:38:29.720 | - So you're, you're a famous guy talking shit

01:38:35.040 | in the middle of all that.

01:38:36.400 | - Yeah, and I, when I left,

01:38:38.560 | I went through a very dark side, dark, dark, dark,

01:38:42.160 | because all of the insecurities,

01:38:43.800 | all of the stuff that had been like working on my head

01:38:45.640 | now came to life, and now I'm in America,

01:38:49.000 | and I'm a nobody, I'm a nobody.

01:38:51.920 | And now it's like, I have to do something,

01:38:53.400 | I have to earn some money.

01:38:54.240 | So I started to do stand-up comedy five years ago.

01:38:57.280 | And I sucked, because it was my second language,

01:39:00.920 | and it was new, and now I will go to these comedy clubs

01:39:03.560 | with like kids, and 21, 22 people,

01:39:06.080 | and then I'm there with a family to support that.

01:39:08.480 | I'm going there to do it for $15, $20, and I was bad.

01:39:13.320 | I was bad.

01:39:14.160 | - You're bombing.

01:39:14.980 | - Bombing big time.

01:39:15.820 | - Eating shit.

01:39:16.660 | - Eating big time, dying up there big time.

01:39:19.360 | And I would go back home and I would cry.

01:39:22.000 | And then what made it worse is sometimes,

01:39:24.880 | like a fan, like not a fan, a bunch of fans from Egypt.

01:39:28.600 | It's like, oh, Bassem Youssef, you know that?

01:39:29.800 | They come, it's like.

01:39:30.640 | (laughing)

01:39:33.440 | - Yeah, just start.

01:39:34.280 | - Disappointments on their, that kind of,

01:39:36.840 | like face of adoration that goes.

01:39:39.380 | (laughing)

01:39:41.640 | And I could see it in their face.

01:39:45.960 | I think he's gonna drive an Uber in a couple of weeks.

01:39:48.200 | (laughing)

01:39:50.280 | That's, that kind of pressure.

01:39:52.320 | And I would go and I would cry, and then essentially,

01:39:55.600 | oh, you left, you gave up, you're a sellout,

01:39:59.520 | you're a coward, why don't you speak from abroad?

01:40:02.200 | You're safe now.

01:40:03.400 | It's like, I don't, I already spoke.

01:40:05.420 | I don't want to be, 'cause I don't wanna be an activist.

01:40:09.960 | I was doing that for comedy when it was good for everybody,

01:40:12.760 | but now they want me to go into YouTube

01:40:14.840 | and just like throw rocks from outside.

01:40:17.000 | And it's like, you know what, I understand,

01:40:18.040 | I have family there.

01:40:19.000 | (laughing)

01:40:19.960 | And it was this kind of like thing like that,

01:40:23.360 | I am being like attacked for not doing what I should do

01:40:28.360 | in their face, and attacked for not being funny,

01:40:31.000 | and not doing good, and now I'm a fan,

01:40:32.800 | like maybe it was wrong, and I was,

01:40:34.960 | I didn't know, I really, it was so traumatic

01:40:38.920 | that I don't know actually how I went through these years,

01:40:41.480 | and I blocked so many details from my brain,

01:40:44.240 | because I have been using this technique for a while now

01:40:49.240 | that I have been erasing a lot of my,

01:40:51.760 | there is a lot of memory gaps in my brain,

01:40:56.760 | and I'm trying to suppress it

01:40:58.280 | because it was very, very, very traumatic.

01:41:01.840 | And a lot of people told me you have to go to therapy,

01:41:04.400 | but I don't, I can't, I don't know,

01:41:06.760 | I'm worried to open the floodgates,

01:41:09.600 | and I'm thinking as if I'm functional,

01:41:11.200 | and I'm not killing anybody, I'm okay.

01:41:13.420 | (laughing)

01:41:15.680 | - It's like, I think Elon tweeted never went to therapy,

01:41:19.320 | it's gonna be on my headstone.

01:41:21.480 | - Yeah.

01:41:22.320 | (sighing)

01:41:23.800 | (laughing)

01:41:25.360 | - Two of your best buds, okay.

01:41:27.800 | - I mean, that is terrifyingly difficult,

01:41:30.860 | like, after being a surgeon,

01:41:34.960 | after being a superstar, super famous,

01:41:38.440 | going to eat shit at local tiny clubs in the United States,

01:41:43.440 | I mean, eating shit, period.

01:41:45.320 | - Yeah.

01:41:46.140 | - Like, bombing is really, really, really difficult,

01:41:47.840 | really difficult for 20-year-olds.

01:41:50.160 | (sighing)

01:41:51.000 | (laughing)

01:41:52.200 | - Imagine when you're 45, 46,

01:41:54.740 | and then people's like, is this his midlife crisis?

01:41:57.580 | What is this?

01:41:58.420 | (laughing)

01:42:00.080 | I went through a lot of pain and a lot of doubts,

01:42:05.080 | and it was terrible.

01:42:08.120 | - Wait, I mean, how did you survive?

01:42:09.960 | I know you brought up most of it,

01:42:12.400 | but what gave you strength through all that?

01:42:14.880 | - Because I didn't have any other choice,

01:42:16.720 | because I started that,

01:42:18.240 | and the only reason that I could is to continue.

01:42:20.560 | I don't know what else to do.

01:42:22.800 | I don't wanna go back to medicine.

01:42:24.360 | I don't wanna go, I don't want to do that.

01:42:27.400 | And I don't know, I was, and bit by bit, bit by bit,

01:42:31.280 | I started to kind of like, be better, be better, be better.

01:42:35.080 | And I was, at a certain time, a year ago, a year ago,

01:42:39.120 | this is where I started to kind of like hone the craft

01:42:42.700 | and kind of sell more tickets,

01:42:44.700 | and sometimes even sell out some shows,

01:42:47.220 | and sometimes sell a theater.

01:42:48.300 | So like, it was going, and the money was flowing,

01:42:50.020 | and it was good.

01:42:50.860 | And then I was like, why didn't, I wanted faster,

01:42:56.180 | I wanted more, I want it now,

01:42:57.760 | I want Netflix deal, or whatever.

01:43:00.060 | And then the Piers Morgan thing happened,

01:43:01.300 | and then I blew up,

01:43:02.140 | and then suddenly I'm selling out everywhere.

01:43:03.780 | And it's like, ah, if those people came,

01:43:05.780 | if the war happened two years ago, I will not be ready.

01:43:09.840 | So now they come to the show,

01:43:12.260 | and by the way, my show had nothing to do

01:43:14.660 | with the October 7th.

01:43:15.860 | My show is my thing that I've been crafting

01:43:18.260 | and working on.

01:43:19.100 | You know how difficult it is to do the first hour,

01:43:22.140 | the hour that I've been working on for five years,

01:43:25.220 | and it's all my personal story.

01:43:26.820 | All about like what happened to me as an immigrant

01:43:29.140 | coming here to the United States,

01:43:30.180 | finding Trump as a president,

01:43:31.460 | finding myself in the middle of a gun rally,

01:43:33.740 | finding myself in the middle of a bombing,

01:43:35.300 | kind of like talking about how I got my citizenship.

01:43:37.380 | It's all like funny stories about like my origin story.

01:43:40.980 | So they come in, and they expect October 7th,

01:43:42.860 | and all those things are my personal story.

01:43:44.100 | But it's good, and it kills, and they love it.

01:43:46.020 | It's like, if that kind of like blew up in America,

01:43:48.980 | happened to me two, three years ago,

01:43:51.660 | I would not have people who come and be disappointed.

01:43:54.180 | - I gotta say, the timing of October 7th is very suspicious.

01:43:57.180 | - Oh my God, please don't say that.

01:43:58.660 | - I don't know.

01:43:59.660 | I'm just asking questions.

01:44:00.780 | I don't know.

01:44:01.620 | - I'm telling you, one of the funniest thing,

01:44:03.900 | a guy, I was in Dubai, and like a TV anchor came to me.

01:44:08.300 | "Basim Youssef, he flourishes during revolutions and wars."

01:44:11.860 | Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what, what, what?

01:44:13.340 | Dude!

01:44:14.180 | (laughing)

01:44:15.220 | You're making me sound like a bad omen, a very bad omen.

01:44:18.560 | (laughing)

01:44:19.780 | - Yeah, you, Hamas, and Bibi together orchestrated all this.

01:44:23.500 | - Oh my God, that's the trilogy.

01:44:25.900 | (laughing)

01:44:27.820 | - You guys should go on the road together.

01:44:29.740 | Telling you, that phone call is coming.

01:44:31.260 | - Yeah, but Hamas has to open.

01:44:32.780 | (laughing)

01:44:34.620 | - And they would really bomb, right?

01:44:36.420 | - They would really bomb.

01:44:37.800 | (laughing)

01:44:40.060 | - I love dark humor.

01:44:42.700 | You do a show, like you were saying,

01:44:44.460 | in English and in Arabic.

01:44:47.380 | So, and the story is very different.

01:44:50.180 | - Totally different, two different stories.

01:44:52.020 | - I would love to, just the language difference.

01:44:54.660 | Because it's the music of the language is also different.

01:44:57.140 | So like, what's, how can you convert it into words?

01:45:00.620 | But what's the difference in the music of the languages?

01:45:03.780 | I'll tell you.

01:45:05.300 | 'Cause I thought about that a lot.

01:45:06.460 | (laughing)

01:45:08.720 | So, when I was doing the English first,

01:45:13.100 | I was, I actually had good jokes.

01:45:16.100 | But I was missing the delivery.

01:45:17.580 | Because the cadence, and the music,

01:45:19.620 | and the rhythm is different.

01:45:21.300 | The way that an English-speaking American

01:45:23.940 | member of audience will receive it,

01:45:26.900 | it will be different than how I receive it.

01:45:28.660 | The energy, everything's different.

01:45:30.420 | So, when I kind of like got it,

01:45:34.220 | I didn't know how to switch back to Arabic.

01:45:39.220 | - Oh wow, yeah, fascinating.

01:45:42.980 | - Because here's the thing, with English stand-up comedy,

01:45:44.620 | English stand-up, you have a huge library.

01:45:45.820 | You have like a legacy.

01:45:46.660 | You have like years, and years, and years,

01:45:47.820 | and years of people doing comedy.

01:45:49.460 | But in Arabic, it's very new to us.

01:45:51.860 | And most of the Arabic stand-up comedy,

01:45:53.580 | especially in Egypt, is very tamed.

01:45:56.640 | This is kind of like, imagine the stand-up comedy scene

01:46:01.420 | in the American 1960s before Lenny Bruce.

01:46:04.740 | - Oh, so no swearing, conservative, careful.

01:46:07.300 | - No swearing, nothing conservative,

01:46:08.340 | everything kind of like, yeah, it's kind of like very.

01:46:11.660 | So, I didn't know what to do with Arabic.

01:46:15.220 | So, I broke the barriers.

01:46:16.540 | I became Lenny Bruce, I became George Carlin.

01:46:18.660 | So, I went in, and I went, and I changed the whole thing.

01:46:21.260 | - The seven words you're not allowed to say, whatever.

01:46:23.060 | - For me, they're 15 words.

01:46:24.700 | - How?

01:46:25.540 | (laughing)

01:46:26.360 | There's a lot, there's a lot.

01:46:28.140 | - Arabic is a very rich language.

01:46:29.740 | - Yeah.

01:46:30.660 | - So, when I did, here's the difference

01:46:34.300 | between the Arabic and the English show.

01:46:36.300 | The English show, surprise, surprise,

01:46:40.160 | is a unifying language, even for a group of Arabs.

01:46:43.740 | So, if I give the same exact show

01:46:47.060 | to the same 1,000 audience members in the same theater,

01:46:51.020 | and they're the same people,

01:46:52.220 | same makeup of Lebanese, Egyptian, Syrian, Saudis,

01:46:56.820 | English will be a unifying language.

01:46:59.680 | Arabic is a dividing language.

01:47:01.460 | - Why is that?

01:47:02.300 | - Because you have 22 dialects,

01:47:03.340 | and the dialects are vastly different.

01:47:05.220 | And maybe Egyptians understand a little bit of Lebanese,

01:47:08.100 | but not that much, but the references,

01:47:09.740 | Algerian, Moroccan, Tunisian, totally different animal.

01:47:12.660 | That's like a totally different language.

01:47:14.140 | Saudi, Emirati, Kuwaiti, totally different.

01:47:16.660 | People understand the Egyptian dialect

01:47:18.140 | because it's the dialect

01:47:18.980 | of most of the artwork and the movies,

01:47:21.860 | but the reference in the everyday street talk

01:47:23.860 | might not be understood by them.

01:47:26.300 | So, now I have to go in

01:47:27.700 | and talk to all of these dialects together.

01:47:32.060 | So, I formed my, big part of my show is like,

01:47:35.560 | what are you guys expecting of this?

01:47:38.260 | This is what, this is, we gonna,

01:47:41.340 | when I go do profanity and you're gonna like it,

01:47:45.220 | this is the problem with the show as a dialect,

01:47:47.540 | and I construct all of these sentences

01:47:50.220 | formed of so different, different words.

01:47:53.340 | For example, an iron.

01:47:54.900 | In any, in any, in any Arabic dialect is an iron.

01:47:59.580 | In Saudi Arabia, it means ass.

01:48:02.020 | That's one example.

01:48:03.300 | That's one example, you know?

01:48:04.860 | So, imagine if you can actually construct sentences

01:48:07.500 | having all of these things in one sentence.

01:48:09.220 | So, I would construct like a whole section

01:48:12.220 | of my show about that.

01:48:13.780 | - So, it's really very much about

01:48:15.820 | self-reflective on language

01:48:17.460 | and the limits of language that's allowed.

01:48:19.300 | - And the limits of language,

01:48:20.260 | and I tell them, part of the show is like,

01:48:21.860 | I know what's the problem with me doing Arabic.

01:48:23.780 | It's like, if this was an English show

01:48:25.060 | and I was telling you, "Fuck and shit,

01:48:26.220 | "I bet you'll be ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,"

01:48:27.660 | but if I do one swear word, all of you will scrimp.

01:48:30.340 | - Yeah.

01:48:31.180 | - It's like, why?

01:48:32.140 | Is it because we are ashamed of our own language?

01:48:36.060 | So, it's kind of like, it's not just about swearing.

01:48:38.220 | It's about, there's a lot of philosophical pathways in this.

01:48:42.260 | Yeah, there's profanity, and people have fun, whatever,

01:48:45.020 | but it is about, how do we treat our language?

01:48:48.820 | And I tell them, we speak Arabic as Arabs,

01:48:51.660 | but it's not the same Arabic.

01:48:53.900 | It's crazy, right?

01:48:54.740 | - And you're doing the show in America also,

01:48:56.380 | which is another level of obscurity.

01:48:57.580 | - Oh, yeah.

01:48:58.420 | Actually, the Arab diaspora in America

01:48:59.580 | is some of the best audiences I have.

01:49:01.940 | They are like wonderful, and they come from,

01:49:05.820 | and I did it also in the Middle East,

01:49:08.940 | and maybe I'll do like an Arab tour

01:49:10.420 | in the Middle East in the fall.

01:49:12.060 | - Which countries would you go to and not?

01:49:14.540 | - I worried, Jordan, Lebanon, I'm doing UAE,

01:49:18.540 | I'm doing Kuwait, Egypt, Bahrain.

01:49:21.060 | Egypt, I don't think so.

01:49:22.700 | I don't think so.

01:49:23.700 | - Is it personal?

01:49:25.460 | Is it worry about your safety?

01:49:29.860 | - Well, I have the American citizenship right now,

01:49:32.140 | so I am relatively safe.

01:49:34.560 | There's a block.

01:49:36.120 | - Sure.

01:49:36.960 | - Honestly, there's a block.

01:49:38.180 | There's so much that happens,

01:49:42.140 | and I will never badmouth Egypt.

01:49:44.660 | It is my country.

01:49:45.500 | It has all of my marriage, 40 years of my life I lived there.

01:49:49.380 | But when you get hurt so much,

01:49:51.820 | instead of trying to kind of,

01:49:54.980 | I don't wanna take revenge, I don't wanna like that,

01:49:57.980 | I just want to avoid.

01:50:00.140 | Because Egypt gave me so much fame and so much love

01:50:03.340 | and so much hate and so much rejection.

01:50:05.540 | It is a very, it was a very tumulus relationship.

01:50:10.540 | Very, very difficult.

01:50:12.540 | And a lot of people tell me, well, don't you miss Egypt?

01:50:16.220 | And I tell them every time,

01:50:17.720 | the Egypt that I miss is not there anymore.

01:50:19.540 | It's not bad or good.

01:50:21.100 | It's not worse or better.

01:50:22.620 | It's just, I'm different, and the places are different,

01:50:25.100 | and the people are different,

01:50:26.060 | and the circumstances are different.

01:50:27.460 | Whatever image that you have of what you love

01:50:30.360 | is not there anymore.

01:50:31.200 | That's why a lot of immigrants, especially Arab immigrants,

01:50:33.700 | they live here, but they're there.

01:50:36.340 | And then when they go back for a vacation,

01:50:38.180 | they get disappointed

01:50:39.020 | because they didn't find what they want.

01:50:40.820 | And then they come back here and they're disappointed

01:50:42.580 | because this is what they wanna come back,

01:50:45.100 | but it's not there anymore.

01:50:46.920 | - Yeah, their view of that place is from a different time.

01:50:51.860 | I have that, you know, my parents,

01:50:54.400 | but everybody that left the Soviet Union,

01:50:57.100 | I mean, it's such a complicated relationship with that.

01:51:01.820 | It's sometimes borders on hate, disappointment.

01:51:06.020 | In the case of the Soviet Union,

01:51:08.660 | perhaps similar to Egypt,

01:51:10.060 | is the promises sold when you were younger,

01:51:12.820 | and the promises broken by the possibility

01:51:16.140 | of what it was supposed to be.

01:51:17.740 | With the Soviet Union, I'm sure with Egypt is the same.

01:51:21.220 | Iran is the same.

01:51:22.580 | So they have a very complicated relationship with that.

01:51:26.460 | - Yeah, that's why, like, for example, people from Iran,

01:51:29.180 | I remember quite well the World Cup

01:51:31.200 | that was made in the United States,

01:51:34.500 | and the Iranian team were playing America,

01:51:36.700 | and there were people in the audience all wearing Iranian,

01:51:40.860 | they hate the regime,

01:51:42.340 | but they have this kind of connection with the country.

01:51:46.140 | And this is the whole thing.

01:51:47.780 | You can actually love the country,

01:51:49.280 | and you don't have to agree with the regime.

01:51:51.480 | - Would you ever perform in the West Bank?

01:51:56.380 | - No. - Gaza.

01:51:57.340 | - Because if I go there,

01:51:58.300 | I have to go to the Israeli checkpoints,

01:51:59.980 | and I don't wanna go through this.

01:52:01.140 | I don't want to have an Israeli soldier

01:52:03.580 | telling me what to do.

01:52:04.700 | - Yeah, there's a demeaning aspect to that whole--

01:52:06.540 | - Very. - Even in subtle ways, yeah.

01:52:09.140 | - Yeah, yeah, I mean, I have so many Palestinian friends

01:52:12.660 | with an American passport, U.S. passport, living here.

01:52:15.020 | They are born here.

01:52:16.260 | And they talk about the humiliation, and the intimidation,

01:52:19.460 | and the harassment that they go in.

01:52:21.500 | It's like, do you want me to try? (laughs)

01:52:24.900 | - Yeah, that little bit of a humiliation.

01:52:29.880 | A little bit. (imitates gunshot)

01:52:32.740 | - Well, sometimes it's major, but--

01:52:34.180 | - I know, I know. - I notice that

01:52:35.740 | even the little bit has, after a lifetime of that,

01:52:40.460 | it can turn to hate towards the other.

01:52:44.060 | - Yeah, and resentment.

01:52:45.340 | - Resentment, and then how do you do anything

01:52:47.740 | with that resentment?

01:52:48.820 | - I have a friend of mine.

01:52:50.100 | He is from Palestine, from the West Bank.

01:52:52.300 | He's American here, he's born here.

01:52:54.500 | And we talk about, you know, we have, of course,

01:52:58.540 | all of this discussion about what happened.

01:53:00.000 | And he tells me, you know, in October 11th,

01:53:02.120 | in the West Bank, and there was a village called Kosra.

01:53:06.880 | And on that village, like, the settlers went in

01:53:11.400 | around the village, and they sent a message on Facebook.

01:53:13.040 | It's like, you rats, get out of your sewers,

01:53:15.640 | and we're gonna be waiting for you.

01:53:16.880 | Intimidation through technology.

01:53:19.120 | And then they went, it is,

01:53:23.320 | Kosra have like another settlement next to it

01:53:25.480 | called the Eshkodesh.

01:53:27.640 | Eshkodesh, they have people there

01:53:30.180 | who were training something called Mishmereti Yisha,

01:53:34.120 | which is basically the guardians of Yisha.

01:53:36.620 | And it's like a paramilitary group

01:53:38.640 | that trains other settlers on military combat.

01:53:42.940 | Give them weapons and do like military drills.

01:53:45.780 | And they went there like militarized, and went there.

01:53:48.740 | And it was actually co-founded by a Jew from Brooklyn.

01:53:53.140 | Not even, and like an Israeli.

01:53:57.040 | And he is like one of the disciples of Meir Kahane.

01:53:59.620 | I'm sure that you know who Meir Kahane is,

01:54:01.220 | who was the Jewish defense lead,

01:54:03.340 | the people who assassinated Alex Aouda

01:54:05.700 | here in the United States.

01:54:06.900 | And they were there with their weapons outside

01:54:11.660 | intimidating people.

01:54:12.500 | Now, this story carries everything

01:54:14.860 | that is wrong with the situation.

01:54:16.500 | You have people from Brooklyn, from outside,

01:54:18.460 | just because they're Jewish, they can't come,

01:54:20.020 | and they can claim the land from the people there.

01:54:22.060 | Anybody from Poland, just because he's Jewish,

01:54:23.580 | you can come and take the land from other people.

01:54:25.820 | They're using technology to intimidate Palestinians.

01:54:28.720 | They have unchecked military power.

01:54:31.160 | These are not IDF soldiers.

01:54:33.040 | These are settlers, and they have free reign

01:54:35.160 | in order to intimidate and to kill the people.

01:54:37.360 | And you understand, this is the daily life of Palestinians.

01:54:40.480 | Not in Gaza, in the West Bank.

01:54:42.600 | - What do you do from your, what do we do,

01:54:46.040 | what do people do to nudge this towards peace,

01:54:54.560 | towards flourishing?

01:54:55.900 | - Here's the thing.

01:54:56.740 | I wanna talk to the people of Israel.

01:55:00.100 | What is Israel doing right now is not just unfair

01:55:04.340 | to the Palestinians, it's unfair to the Jewish people

01:55:06.540 | in Israel.

01:55:07.380 | No, it is unfair to the Jewish people around the world.

01:55:10.660 | Because the way that Israel links itself to Judaism,

01:55:15.660 | at a certain point, you know, remember like ISIS

01:55:18.360 | and Qaeda and when everybody hated Muslims?

01:55:20.700 | You know, sometimes, humans are simple.

01:55:24.440 | They cannot have the nuances to separate.

01:55:26.500 | So, anybody who, with a Muslim name, with a Muslim face,

01:55:30.180 | with a beard, who looks Muslim, he would do it

01:55:32.180 | because of that actions of those atrocities.

01:55:35.180 | You have the power, as a person, to separate yourself

01:55:38.960 | from an abusive power, a horrible power, and be yourself.

01:55:43.020 | I am really worried because the rise of anti-Semitism

01:55:46.580 | and the rise of hate against Jews

01:55:47.900 | is not because of the Jews.

01:55:50.060 | It's because of the actions of the government.

01:55:53.100 | Jews do not have to be on the side of apartheid.

01:55:55.580 | Ronnie Kestrels, he is a Jewish South African

01:55:59.500 | and he fought shoulder to shoulder next to Nelson Mandela.

01:56:02.700 | He was part of the African National Conference, ANC.

01:56:05.300 | And he had an article saying like,

01:56:07.340 | "I know what apartheid is and I saw Israel

01:56:09.260 | "and this is what they have."

01:56:10.700 | And the thing is, Israeli government should listen

01:56:15.540 | to other people.

01:56:17.380 | You cannot call anybody who criticize you

01:56:20.500 | either an anti-Semite or if they're already Jewish,

01:56:23.020 | you call them like self-hating Jew.

01:56:25.260 | You cannot do that.

01:56:26.100 | You cannot continue doing that.

01:56:27.180 | Because we did that.

01:56:28.020 | When I would go in and criticize the Islamists,

01:56:30.020 | it was like, "Oh, you're a self-hating Muslim.

01:56:32.100 | "You're not really Muslim.

01:56:32.940 | "You're an infidel, you're a secret,

01:56:33.980 | "you're a secular," or whatever.

01:56:35.980 | We have the power in order to reform the course

01:56:40.980 | by holding people in power accountable.

01:56:44.660 | And the thing is, it is very stupid

01:56:47.020 | to actually call this anti-Semitism.

01:56:48.620 | And like, my idol is Jon Stewart.

01:56:52.060 | I voted for Bernie Sanders.

01:56:53.500 | Sarah Taxler, the one who did this amazing documentary

01:56:57.900 | about me, "Tickling Giants," she's a Jew.

01:57:00.260 | She is married to an Israeli Jew.

01:57:01.980 | We have a good ratio because we know what the right is.

01:57:04.620 | They don't have to associate themselves

01:57:06.660 | with the action of the Israeli government.

01:57:09.140 | - One of your favorite words, "jihad."

01:57:11.980 | (laughing)

01:57:13.780 | - That's my favorite hobbies.

01:57:14.820 | - It's his favorite hobby.

01:57:16.660 | - It's my show.

01:57:17.500 | It's like, what's his favorite?

01:57:18.580 | I talk about how when a white shooter

01:57:21.620 | does something, he talks about all of his family

01:57:23.740 | and all his hobbies.

01:57:24.580 | Like, what if we did this for Arab terrorists?

01:57:27.700 | What are his hobbies?

01:57:28.620 | Jihad.

01:57:29.460 | (laughing)

01:57:31.060 | - You see?

01:57:31.900 | You could be a comedian!

01:57:32.720 | - Yeah.

01:57:33.560 | Wow, you're making me feel good.

01:57:36.540 | Okay.

01:57:38.100 | Sam Harris has done several episodes on jihad.

01:57:43.100 | And people should go listen to it,

01:57:46.460 | even if you disagree with it.

01:57:48.260 | But the basic idea that he's proposing

01:57:51.460 | is that this idea of jihad,

01:57:53.460 | in the negative connotation of it,

01:57:56.300 | of martyrdom is a thing that gets,

01:57:59.820 | is counterproductive, is destructive

01:58:03.220 | to the possible future flourishing of Palestinian people.

01:58:07.420 | What do you think of that?

01:58:09.940 | There's just the idea of martyrdom.

01:58:10.780 | - Yeah, I totally agree, but people don't wake up

01:58:13.060 | in the morning and say, "I wanna declare jihad."

01:58:16.260 | Think about it.

01:58:17.100 | Why would anybody choose to end his life

01:58:20.500 | by taking other people with him and end that life?

01:58:23.100 | His life must be miserable.

01:58:25.600 | He must be pushed into that.

01:58:27.460 | Nobody chooses death over life willingly.

01:58:31.860 | One of the first suicide bombers

01:58:34.580 | in the Palestinian resistance were Christians.

01:58:36.940 | We don't talk about that.

01:58:40.700 | I think he would say that the presence of a story

01:58:44.820 | that you can tell yourself

01:58:45.900 | when you're in a really shitty place,

01:58:48.540 | that you can go to a much better place

01:58:51.260 | by sacrificing your own life.

01:58:52.940 | Just the fact that the presence of that story is there

01:58:55.540 | is harmful.

01:58:57.220 | - Of course, but here's my problem with Sam Harris,

01:59:01.540 | and usually people, they have free range

01:59:04.820 | talking about the Islamic faith

01:59:06.260 | and nitpicking the stuff that makes it put in a bad light.

01:59:11.260 | I can go and nitpick every single religion.

01:59:13.960 | There are Jews there, like Bin Ghafir,

01:59:17.580 | who openly says spitting on Christians

01:59:19.420 | is not a hate speech, all right?

01:59:21.860 | They are, I mean, you can bring me all kinds of videos

01:59:25.400 | of Islamic jihadists saying horrible things on YouTube,

01:59:29.380 | and I can bring you Jews who live there.

01:59:31.000 | They are like, "We're gonna have the whole world

01:59:32.700 | "enslaved for us, and everybody would love

01:59:34.340 | "to be enslaved for the Jews."

01:59:35.840 | I can use the Talmudic argument

01:59:39.940 | that if you tie a man to a tree

01:59:42.960 | and he dies of thirst and hunger,

01:59:44.660 | you didn't kill that man.

01:59:46.400 | And this is kind of the same arguments,

01:59:48.060 | like, "Ah, we're not killing Palestinians.

01:59:49.260 | "It's just like killing, they're dying by themselves."

01:59:52.180 | So it is, the nitpicking of a certain narrative,

01:59:56.420 | religious narrative, that is separate

01:59:59.220 | from the political context and what's happening right now,

02:00:02.940 | it's very unfair, because I can read,

02:00:04.940 | if you wanna have a deep dive into religious texts,

02:00:08.780 | nobody will be happy, and I can bring stuff

02:00:10.820 | from the Talmud and the Torah and stuff that is horrible,

02:00:14.220 | but this is a way, again, of distraction.

02:00:18.360 | - I dare you to talk shit about Buddhism and Jainism, though.

02:00:23.600 | Try. - Well, you know,

02:00:25.000 | the people who killed the Muslims in Myanmar,

02:00:27.920 | weren't they Buddhist?

02:00:29.200 | - Yeah, well, let's go, Jaden.

02:00:31.200 | Okay, I'll find the religion, I'll get to get back to you.

02:00:33.400 | I'll have to find it.

02:00:34.240 | - Yeah, the Flying Monster,

02:00:36.720 | the Church of the Flying Monster Spaghetti.

02:00:39.680 | - The Flying Monster. (laughs)

02:00:42.280 | As a person who tries not to eat carbs,

02:00:44.380 | I'm deeply offended by that.

02:00:45.640 | - I mean, they're Scientologists,

02:00:46.580 | all they do is actually buy real estate.

02:00:48.640 | (laughing)

02:00:51.340 | - I think there's a few books written

02:00:52.660 | about the fact that they do other stuff as well.

02:00:55.060 | So even there, Mormons sometimes,

02:00:59.860 | they're some of the nicest people I've ever met,

02:01:02.260 | but I'm sure there's also darkness there, too.

02:01:04.560 | Oh, boy, religion.

02:01:07.140 | - There's soaking in Mormon.

02:01:10.460 | - There's what?

02:01:12.260 | - Soaking.

02:01:13.100 | - What's soaking?

02:01:13.920 | - Okay, so I don't know how much.

02:01:15.540 | So soaking, basically, if you get into the woman

02:01:19.500 | and you don't move, that's not adultery, that's not like--

02:01:25.340 | - Oh, interesting.

02:01:26.180 | So there's a loophole. - Yeah, you go in

02:01:27.200 | and you just take.

02:01:28.040 | - There's a loophole.

02:01:28.880 | - There's a loophole.

02:01:29.720 | - That's the thing.

02:01:30.540 | Religion has a loophole.

02:01:31.380 | - Religion has a loophole.

02:01:32.220 | - Yes, and Muslims, we do that the whole time.

02:01:34.220 | We pick and choose our sins, the stuff that we enjoy.

02:01:37.420 | It's just, where are you?

02:01:39.020 | - There's 72 versions waiting for all of us.

02:01:41.020 | Maybe if I converted you as a Jew, I'll get you 80.

02:01:43.420 | I don't know, you can negotiate.

02:01:45.220 | - But I also have questions about whether--

02:01:48.340 | - That would be a very good deal.

02:01:49.900 | And maybe I'll throw there a Camry.

02:01:51.980 | - I have to be honest, Camry, it's pretty good.

02:01:55.980 | What year?

02:01:56.820 | I don't know.

02:01:57.660 | - 1998, best year ever.

02:01:59.940 | - Well, they last a long time, so.

02:02:02.720 | I'm not sure I want 70, I need to--

02:02:05.700 | - I'll throw five in the mix and see how it feels.

02:02:08.360 | - Yeah, can we--

02:02:09.200 | - Upgrade?

02:02:10.040 | - Yeah, can we do a trial period?

02:02:12.620 | - But in general, if you just zoom out,

02:02:16.360 | do you think religion is, in what way is it good

02:02:20.480 | for the world, and in what way is it harmful?

02:02:22.760 | - If there was no religion,

02:02:23.920 | humans would have invented religion.

02:02:25.680 | Because think about it, think of the early humanity.

02:02:29.080 | You're a caveman or whatever,

02:02:30.640 | and then you see your family members killed,

02:02:32.720 | and then you say, what, I'm gonna be the sheet

02:02:35.760 | or the gazelle that just ends and perish?

02:02:38.480 | I need to have, I am more important.

02:02:40.940 | I think with the development of consciousness,

02:02:43.640 | humans thought that they are much more precious

02:02:48.640 | and important than the other animals,

02:02:50.520 | because they have now intelligence.

02:02:51.680 | So my life will not end like that.

02:02:54.960 | My death will be even more important.

02:02:58.720 | There's consequences for that.

02:03:00.240 | There's consequences for what I do.

02:03:01.760 | And then the early man was there in the desert

02:03:06.000 | and all of these natural phenomena.

02:03:07.760 | They didn't know what to do, they were afraid.

02:03:09.720 | So they need to have refuge.

02:03:10.800 | They need to have something to take care of.

02:03:12.440 | They need to have a reason for everything.

02:03:14.520 | Because if there's no reason, it's chaos.

02:03:17.760 | It's chaos. - It's terrifying.

02:03:20.040 | - It's terrifying, it's terrifying.

02:03:21.320 | There's nothing, there has to be a reason.

02:03:24.400 | There has to be a reason, there has to be a purpose.

02:03:26.440 | It has to be a cause, something.

02:03:28.920 | It's just, I'm not just gonna be like die,

02:03:31.840 | like a cockroach being stepped on.

02:03:34.560 | And that's kind of like part of this ego.

02:03:36.880 | - The whole world rotates around you in a way.

02:03:38.840 | - It's the ego.

02:03:39.720 | So religion actually got a lot of it from humanity itself,

02:03:44.480 | like me, us, like us being humans.

02:03:46.840 | And there's, and many religion is a collection of stories.

02:03:51.840 | And those stories based on things that humans did themselves

02:03:55.480 | and they attributed it to gods.

02:03:57.280 | - And there's an aspect to religion

02:03:59.440 | where you humble yourself before a thing

02:04:01.880 | that is much greater than you.

02:04:03.640 | So that has a, I would say,

02:04:06.000 | a very positive effect of humbling.

02:04:08.080 | - It will be great if it's stopped there.

02:04:10.360 | But here's the thing, if you humble

02:04:13.320 | in order that your ego kicks in

02:04:15.080 | and feel that you are better than someone else

02:04:16.840 | who's not humbled in front of the same god,

02:04:19.440 | that means that I will have all of that train

02:04:22.240 | that I can use that,

02:04:24.080 | because now, what does it mean being humble?

02:04:26.040 | I'm divine, but you're not.

02:04:28.480 | - I'm way more humble than you.

02:04:30.160 | - But you're not.

02:04:31.040 | So you see how they kind of like the oxymoron,

02:04:33.320 | I'm humble and I'm surrendering,

02:04:34.760 | but in the same time, I am better than you

02:04:36.440 | and I'm more entitled.

02:04:37.280 | Isn't it crazy?

02:04:38.320 | - Yeah, it's beautiful, it's crazy.

02:04:41.520 | - I mean, look at like the Muslim Christians

02:04:44.560 | and Jews and every, like you say,

02:04:45.840 | all right, Muslims, we surrender.

02:04:47.120 | I mean, I'm talking about the extreme ones.

02:04:48.520 | I mean, like people say, I surrender to God, good.

02:04:52.640 | Keep it that way.

02:04:53.920 | Like, if you go there, I surrender to God,

02:04:56.080 | that means that I am closer to God than you,

02:04:58.000 | then you should die!

02:04:59.440 | Okay, Christians.

02:05:00.720 | Christ is love and he loves me

02:05:03.000 | and we're gonna be together,

02:05:04.200 | but you don't get into his kingdom and you die.

02:05:07.040 | You see, it's the same thing.

02:05:08.240 | - Yeah, yeah.

02:05:09.400 | - It's just, if you--

02:05:10.400 | - Stop it.

02:05:11.440 | - Stop there, stop where you are humble

02:05:14.440 | and you feel that you're a piece of shit

02:05:16.520 | and you are worthless human being

02:05:18.800 | and you are there, stop there.

02:05:21.320 | But once you say like,

02:05:22.400 | oh, that makes me a better person than you

02:05:24.560 | and it makes me more with God than you,

02:05:26.480 | so that will give me the entitlement to kick your ass.

02:05:30.280 | - Yeah, we always ruin a good thing.

02:05:32.520 | - Don't we?

02:05:33.360 | (laughing)

02:05:34.840 | - That ego.

02:05:36.520 | You've been outspoken, you know, with Piers Morgan,

02:05:39.960 | but just on this topic,

02:05:41.920 | and you talked about the Superman story,

02:05:46.920 | which I would love it if you were in a Superman movie,

02:05:51.160 | but have you lost job opportunities because of this?

02:05:56.440 | - There was other, a couple of things that were going on,

02:05:58.540 | but they stopped, again, I don't know if it's October 7th.

02:06:03.040 | - Can you tell the Superman story just so--

02:06:04.240 | - Yeah, yeah, so--

02:06:05.080 | - What role were you?

02:06:06.320 | - Okay.

02:06:07.160 | - What did you audition for?

02:06:07.980 | - Yeah, it's, okay, okay, all right, all right, okay.

02:06:10.000 | (laughing)

02:06:11.640 | So in June, I was traveling to Dubai,

02:06:14.940 | and right, an hour before I get into the car and go there,

02:06:18.560 | my manager's like, "Bes, I'm gonna send you a script,

02:06:20.240 | "read it, it's for Superman."

02:06:21.920 | It's like, oh, Superman.

02:06:22.760 | You know, I'm not really good in auditions,

02:06:25.200 | I'm not a seasoned actress, so I was like,

02:06:26.600 | "Okay, I'm just gonna do it, send the tape."

02:06:29.500 | I do the tape, I send it, I go to the airport,

02:06:32.200 | and I read, and I think I can talk about it now

02:06:35.440 | because they said they changed the script.

02:06:37.080 | So basically, what I found interesting in that new script

02:06:40.120 | is that there is like a dictator in a country

02:06:43.880 | that invades another country,

02:06:46.040 | and Superman interferes politically.

02:06:48.960 | That's the first time we ever see

02:06:50.080 | Superman interferes politically.

02:06:52.060 | So basically, it was like Russia and Ukraine,

02:06:54.220 | but because of me, it was like,

02:06:55.860 | it couldn't be Russia and Ukraine,

02:06:57.060 | so it had to be something kind of like with a flavor.

02:06:59.160 | So I read the role as if,

02:07:00.760 | as a mixture of Trump and Mubarak.

02:07:03.360 | (laughing)

02:07:04.900 | I did this mix, and like, you know,

02:07:08.140 | like the kind of the mix,

02:07:09.860 | but also like kind of like the essence of Trump into it.

02:07:14.860 | I went to the airport.

02:07:17.060 | It's like an hour.

02:07:17.900 | It's like, James Gunn saw it, he loves it.

02:07:19.660 | It's like, what?

02:07:20.500 | I never had an audition that fast.

02:07:21.980 | I mean, I had a few roles, but not that fast, not like that.

02:07:25.180 | And then it's like, well, the strike starts like tomorrow,

02:07:30.780 | and we need to be on the phone,

02:07:32.500 | but after the strike, we cannot talk.

02:07:33.620 | The sag after strike,

02:07:34.580 | like where the writers and the actors strike.

02:07:36.940 | So like, well, I'm gonna be on a plane right now.

02:07:38.260 | It's like, wait, once you land,

02:07:39.980 | you can have a Zoom call with James Gunn.

02:07:42.340 | I have a call with James Gunn.

02:07:44.520 | I am a huge fan of him.

02:07:45.780 | The guy took like something like "Guardian of the Galaxy."

02:07:47.980 | Nobody knew about it.

02:07:48.820 | Made amazing trilogy.

02:07:50.620 | And he is like a really cool guy.

02:07:52.660 | I like what he did.

02:07:54.340 | And it was like really nice.

02:07:55.780 | And he started to talk to me about the movie.

02:07:57.980 | And you know, like I talk to people before casting them,

02:08:01.500 | so I know that everybody's on set, have a good chemistry.

02:08:04.140 | It was amazing.

02:08:05.180 | So in your mind, if you're an actor, what does that mean?

02:08:08.740 | You got the part.

02:08:09.580 | And he told me, you got the part.

02:08:11.140 | Month goes by, strike goes by, October 7th happens.

02:08:16.580 | I do "Piers Morgan" one and two.

02:08:18.900 | And then I go to my Australian tour.

02:08:21.140 | My manager called me, asked him, the Cirque was over.

02:08:24.140 | It's like, you don't get the part anymore.

02:08:27.080 | I was sad, very sad, but for three days.

02:08:29.900 | And so like, I need to stand up with it, khalas.

02:08:32.060 | I'm actually doing very well, alhamdulillah.

02:08:34.220 | And then when I went to Chris Como,

02:08:41.340 | after I finished the show,

02:08:46.500 | he told me, did you lose any opportunities?

02:08:49.180 | And that was off record.

02:08:50.420 | After the show was like, we concluded.

02:08:52.160 | And I said, I talked about "Superman."

02:08:53.580 | And I found myself, when I was talking, I was angry.

02:08:57.580 | I was bitter.

02:08:58.420 | And I went home, it's like, why was I angry?

02:09:01.620 | Why was I bitter?

02:09:03.340 | It wasn't meant to be.

02:09:04.180 | And I'm living a good life now.

02:09:05.780 | I don't need to.

02:09:08.120 | So when I was asked again,

02:09:10.300 | the next day in two different interviews,

02:09:11.780 | the BBC and another one was alone with my friend,

02:09:14.820 | you know, with Allah.

02:09:16.500 | I said the story in a different way.

02:09:18.500 | I said, I don't have any anger.

02:09:20.740 | As a matter of fact, maybe if I was "Wonder Brothers,"

02:09:23.340 | I didn't talk about James Gunn.

02:09:24.340 | I thought it was the studio.

02:09:25.900 | If I was "Wonder Brothers" and I'm a Muslim,

02:09:28.340 | I wouldn't have like a Zionist or a pro-Israeli in my movie.

02:09:31.700 | But I want to tell them that like,

02:09:33.020 | when I criticize Israel,

02:09:34.340 | I am not a threat to you as a Jew.

02:09:37.720 | And we can actually have more in common.

02:09:39.380 | I was more of a kind of empathic.

02:09:41.420 | So when I said that, the internet went crazy.

02:09:44.060 | And you know, James Gunn have hatreds

02:09:45.620 | because you know, the Snyder verse and all of the,

02:09:48.780 | that it's just, it's a word that I don't understand.

02:09:52.220 | And James Gunn, like, had all of these attacks on him.

02:09:57.220 | And I was pissed of how it was handled.

02:10:00.900 | I wasn't angry at James Gunn, but I thought it was,

02:10:04.460 | so my publicist, my manager's like,

02:10:05.660 | Bassem, stay calm, don't speak.

02:10:08.220 | It's better like to, like, not talk about it.

02:10:12.140 | I said, okay.

02:10:13.160 | So as I'm, there's nothing wrong about me,

02:10:14.860 | but I see the heat is rising against James Gunn.

02:10:17.700 | And that is a guy that I had a personal connection with,

02:10:19.860 | even through Zoom.

02:10:20.940 | And I didn't like what was happening.

02:10:22.620 | And then he called me.

02:10:23.740 | And he explained to me, I said, Bassem, you know,

02:10:25.820 | I actually use, like, have camera tests before people,

02:10:28.660 | before finally, I didn't know that.

02:10:31.220 | And I, and then we changed the script

02:10:33.060 | and it was the strike, so I didn't call.

02:10:34.380 | And I also, I thought to myself, I'm small.

02:10:36.060 | I'm a small actor.

02:10:36.880 | I'm not that important for him to call me

02:10:39.120 | to say we're gonna change the script.

02:10:42.140 | So I still think that, like, the timing sucks and everything.

02:10:45.740 | But then I went and I did a video explaining

02:10:48.080 | exactly what I'm telling you,

02:10:49.600 | because I didn't want to be famous for the wrong reasons.

02:10:54.000 | Because that would be unfair.

02:10:55.200 | Because that was, already people were,

02:10:57.480 | and I was having, like, interviews.

02:10:58.800 | Can you come up to someone?

02:10:59.640 | It's like, guys, that's it.

02:11:00.600 | I'm not gonna talk about it.

02:11:01.440 | Because this is an issue.

02:11:03.240 | And I didn't, and I, when I talked to James on the phone,

02:11:07.520 | I felt how sincere he was.

02:11:09.820 | So I didn't want someone to, because of me,

02:11:12.840 | will have that kind of attack.

02:11:13.800 | Because I know what it means

02:11:15.080 | to be on the other side of that kind of attack.

02:11:17.000 | It's terrible.

02:11:17.920 | And it ruins your life.

02:11:19.040 | And it ruins your day.

02:11:20.200 | And nobody deserves to be doing that.

02:11:22.000 | And I don't want to be the reason

02:11:23.360 | for someone else to go through that pain.

02:11:25.720 | - And you also said that you don't want to be a victim.

02:11:27.800 | - I don't want to be.

02:11:29.080 | I'm doing a great, I'm doing great.

02:11:31.040 | I'm selling out everywhere.

02:11:32.480 | I'm having a wonderful, loyal audiences coming to me.

02:11:35.240 | Why I would be angry about the role of Superman?

02:11:37.200 | Yes, it's great to be in a superhero movies.

02:11:39.560 | But so what, you know?

02:11:41.300 | - But you know, there's a wisdom in that,

02:11:44.820 | even if you weren't doing great,

02:11:46.660 | that's a choice a lot of people can come to,

02:11:50.620 | which is like, do I play victim here or not?

02:11:52.980 | - It's greed.

02:11:54.220 | It's greed.

02:11:55.620 | They want more attention.

02:11:57.060 | They want to be more into the thing.

02:11:58.620 | They want more and more.

02:11:59.740 | And there's so much to go around to be enough for all of us.

02:12:03.340 | But it is greed.

02:12:04.940 | It is ego, ego, ego, ego.

02:12:09.060 | I need to be in the center.

02:12:10.160 | I need to be victimized.

02:12:11.680 | I need to be people feel sorry for me and love me.

02:12:15.040 | And it is not the right way.

02:12:16.800 | It is not because it is fake.

02:12:18.880 | It is fake.

02:12:19.720 | It's made up.

02:12:20.960 | And I did not victimize myself when I left for Egypt.

02:12:23.600 | I mean, in the time that I was,

02:12:25.160 | and now I speak about it now.

02:12:26.600 | But in that dark times, I was detained in airports.

02:12:31.200 | I didn't have my American passport yet.

02:12:33.160 | I was still traveling with my Egyptian passport.

02:12:34.760 | And I was detained in an Arab airport.

02:12:36.800 | I was going to be delivered to the Egyptians.

02:12:38.520 | I had shows when I was still starting.

02:12:41.120 | I had hecklers being sent to me by the Egyptian embassy

02:12:44.560 | and Egyptian consulate in New York and in London

02:12:47.860 | to curse me and to take videos of that

02:12:50.800 | and then send it to state-run media in Egypt.

02:12:53.100 | And I didn't speak about that

02:12:55.240 | because I felt that if I speak about that,

02:12:57.600 | I feel about what was going on to me,

02:12:59.120 | I would be victimizing myself.

02:13:00.300 | It's like, if I'm gonna be good,

02:13:01.380 | I'm gonna be good because of what I do,

02:13:02.860 | not because of what people's perception

02:13:04.760 | of what I'm going through.

02:13:06.860 | - Yeah, and that becomes a slippery slope

02:13:08.740 | and somehow victimizing yourself--

02:13:10.780 | - Goes to more victimizing.

02:13:12.260 | - Yeah.

02:13:13.100 | - And then you cannot leave that habit.

02:13:14.660 | You can only exist and thrive if people feel sorry for you.

02:13:18.460 | - Yeah, I mean, Israel and Palestine

02:13:20.580 | currently both have that temptation.

02:13:23.800 | - I would always push back when you do the comparison

02:13:28.500 | because one of them is not really in the same kind of power.

02:13:32.020 | I mean, yeah. - For sure, for sure.

02:13:33.260 | So to you, that's a big problem.

02:13:34.100 | - I mean, it's very easy to say

02:13:35.940 | why Palestinians would victimize themselves,

02:13:37.340 | but Israel with all of that military might, man,

02:13:39.940 | it's too much.

02:13:42.420 | What Israel is doing is that they're victimizing

02:13:44.380 | the Jewish experience.

02:13:45.700 | And I don't think it is fair for a lot of Jews.

02:13:51.500 | I don't think that they should use the Holocaust

02:13:54.500 | and the persecution that happened to Jewish people

02:13:56.900 | all through history in order to push

02:13:59.500 | an equally oppressive agenda.

02:14:01.300 | That is not fair and it's not good

02:14:03.980 | for the Jewish people living.

02:14:05.140 | And it is basically a disrespect

02:14:07.700 | to the memory of the Holocaust.

02:14:10.060 | I told you, I wanna make a movie about the Holocaust.

02:14:12.820 | I do, because what happened

02:14:15.100 | was that kind of engineered torture

02:14:17.220 | should never happen again

02:14:18.420 | and it should not be happening now.

02:14:20.020 | - So to you, what Israel is doing

02:14:21.380 | is leading to more anti-Semitism in the world.

02:14:23.460 | - 100%.

02:14:24.700 | And I think, and you know,

02:14:25.780 | can I be a conspiracy theorist for a second?

02:14:27.940 | - Please, the earth is flat.

02:14:29.260 | We all know this. - A part of me thinking

02:14:31.700 | maybe they are doing that intentionally

02:14:33.820 | because if there's a rise of anti-Semitism in Jews,

02:14:36.300 | there were always like points like,

02:14:37.740 | see, they hate us so we can do whatever we want.

02:14:40.140 | Because you see, if we let go of our might

02:14:46.060 | and our strength, we're gonna go back

02:14:48.820 | to the concentration camps

02:14:50.020 | because you see how the world hates you.

02:14:52.020 | - And again, when you say they are people in power.

02:14:56.180 | - Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely.

02:14:57.380 | Listen, it's always the people in power.

02:14:59.380 | I believe that humans are easily corruptible

02:15:02.140 | and easily repairable, but the corrupt part is much easier.

02:15:06.220 | But people could change, but power,

02:15:11.580 | people in power are very dangerous, very, very dangerous,

02:15:15.780 | especially if you have religion, which is power by itself,

02:15:20.020 | military might, political support, and money.

02:15:22.740 | Dude, that's a very, very, very dangerous recipe.

02:15:27.740 | - You know, all that said, I do believe in the power

02:15:31.020 | of the little guy, the individual,

02:15:32.300 | to overthrow the government.

02:15:34.020 | I don't know if you heard,

02:15:34.860 | but the Arab Spring happens.

02:15:38.220 | - But, okay, here, we're--

02:15:40.620 | - Just among friends.

02:15:42.940 | - We're Americans, right?

02:15:44.420 | We're Americans.

02:15:45.740 | - Allegedly.

02:15:47.220 | - We're Americans.

02:15:48.220 | (laughing)

02:15:50.540 | - How funny is that?

02:15:51.500 | Like, just giving our two backgrounds.

02:15:53.140 | We're Americans.

02:15:53.980 | - We're Americans.

02:15:54.940 | We're Americans, it's like.

02:15:56.580 | (laughing)

02:15:59.100 | We're Americans.

02:16:00.860 | There's one thing about the power of the little guy

02:16:03.020 | that I am very sad about, because, you see,

02:16:07.780 | I love America, by the way.

02:16:09.500 | I consider it my new home,

02:16:12.620 | and I want my kids to grow up here.

02:16:14.460 | I'm very grateful for the opportunity

02:16:17.580 | that I have in the United States,

02:16:18.860 | and I criticize the United States politics,

02:16:21.220 | and I criticize it out of love,

02:16:23.020 | the same way that I was criticizing

02:16:25.060 | what's happening with Egypt out of love.

02:16:28.300 | What is worrying for me

02:16:29.740 | is how the power of the little man is diminishing.

02:16:33.900 | It doesn't matter now who do you vote into power.

02:16:39.220 | They will not listen to you.

02:16:40.540 | They would listen to the people who paid them to be there,

02:16:43.580 | and it is very concerning,

02:16:45.100 | because I can see the American democracies

02:16:47.340 | turning, not even slowly, very rapidly into an oligarchy.

02:16:51.980 | If I'm sure that all of the millions of people

02:16:54.380 | who are voting, they don't vote for the NRA.

02:16:57.780 | They don't vote for AIPAC.

02:16:59.980 | They don't vote for the pharmaceutical companies.

02:17:02.780 | They don't vote for the military-industry complex,

02:17:06.460 | and yet, the people in power,

02:17:09.180 | they come in, they take your vote and my vote,

02:17:12.340 | and they are loyal to those people, not to us,

02:17:15.460 | and it is very, very, very concerning, very concerning,

02:17:20.460 | and this is the danger on the American policies,

02:17:25.580 | on American politics and American democracies.

02:17:27.860 | It is dangerous, because basically,

02:17:29.680 | the vote becomes just like a ceremony,

02:17:31.940 | that someone with the more funding will get to power,

02:17:38.380 | and then he's not loyal to you.

02:17:40.620 | - Still, the fire, I mean, we are in Texas.

02:17:43.760 | Everybody's armed to the teeth here.

02:17:47.300 | - Yeah, but what are these arms gonna do in front of tanks?

02:17:51.300 | - Well, you said the American military

02:17:54.220 | is unique in this way.

02:17:55.740 | - I know, but for now?

02:17:57.780 | - For now, the tanks are, first of all,

02:18:00.740 | I believe Russia has more tanks than the United States.

02:18:03.460 | Tanks, I don't know, I'm not an expert

02:18:06.060 | in military strategic deployment of arms,

02:18:09.800 | but the United States uses different kinds of weapons.

02:18:13.900 | - They have drones, and they have the lasers,

02:18:15.500 | and they're sitting comfortably behind the screens.

02:18:18.060 | It's kind of like it turns into a big Xbox game.

02:18:20.380 | - Yeah, and they sell a lot of those things to everybody.

02:18:25.380 | - It's crazy, because the defense budget

02:18:29.060 | is 68% of American military.

02:18:30.980 | It's like almost $850 billion each year,

02:18:33.840 | and most of that weapons, we don't even need it.

02:18:38.380 | We just do it because of the contracts.

02:18:41.780 | There was like an incredible 60 minutes.

02:18:44.100 | I'm sure that you saw it, the one about the gouging

02:18:46.220 | of the prices of the Department of Defense.

02:18:48.140 | It was one of the most fascinating things

02:18:49.700 | that I've ever seen.

02:18:50.840 | They say like a valve, a safety oil valve

02:18:53.700 | that used to be sold for $329, now it is sold for $9,000.

02:18:58.700 | Why, because there's only five weapon companies,

02:19:03.220 | and they can control the prices, and in 2006,

02:19:05.940 | the whole Apache fleet of the American army in Iraq

02:19:09.760 | was grounded because there was one valve

02:19:12.180 | that they were like gouging the price

02:19:13.420 | and didn't wanna give them.

02:19:14.700 | The Stinger missile, that's just like the missile,

02:19:18.500 | the one that you carry, and it's like the anti-aircraft.

02:19:23.380 | It used to be sold for $25,000.

02:19:25.020 | Now it's sold for $400,000, and nobody is doing that.

02:19:29.240 | You know why?

02:19:30.080 | Because the DOD has fired 130,000 people,

02:19:33.100 | including engineers and negotiators.

02:19:34.860 | So now, in order to cut expenses,

02:19:37.780 | now we're paying more money.

02:19:39.180 | And the thing is, we do not have a say in this.

02:19:42.780 | We do not have a say in how my tax money

02:19:45.060 | and your tax money is being spent,

02:19:47.140 | because I'm sure you don't want your money

02:19:48.540 | to be sent to Israel like that.

02:19:49.940 | I'm sure, even if you're Jews, I'm sure.

02:19:51.860 | I'm sure that like, I don't want my money

02:19:53.300 | to be given to some Muslim countries

02:19:54.660 | who kill other Muslims, I'm sure.

02:19:56.940 | But it is not, here's the thing.

02:20:00.140 | What kind of power do we have other than speaking?

02:20:02.680 | So what is left for us is free speech.

02:20:05.580 | And now when you speak, they call you anti-Semitic.

02:20:08.500 | You see why I'm angry?

02:20:09.800 | (laughing)

02:20:10.980 | - But still, I mean, America's holding pretty strong

02:20:14.340 | despite the criticisms on the free speech front.

02:20:17.580 | But if you look at the freedom of the press,

02:20:19.980 | freedom of the speech index, America is not at the top.

02:20:23.780 | - It is not, and this is why, for example,

02:20:26.340 | it is very disheartening for me to see

02:20:29.740 | that the Western media, Western press

02:20:32.380 | that used to be the beacon of freedom

02:20:35.060 | are now using as mouthpieces.

02:20:36.940 | And it is funny how the New York Times,

02:20:39.920 | Nixon got angry in the New York Times in 1971

02:20:44.100 | when they found leaks about him lying

02:20:47.260 | about the Vietnam War since the beginning.

02:20:49.860 | And now he hired the plumbers,

02:20:52.460 | the special units and orders to go in and find the leaks.

02:20:55.140 | This was Watergate, basically,

02:20:56.980 | because he was angry to see who leaked that

02:20:59.020 | instead of fixing the problem.

02:21:01.260 | Now the New York Times have published this story

02:21:03.620 | about the rape that was a hoax

02:21:05.900 | that was written by Anna Schwartz,

02:21:07.180 | who's someone who has no experience.

02:21:08.980 | And now when it was leaked,

02:21:12.700 | instead of them correcting themselves,

02:21:14.860 | they went in and they had their own investigation

02:21:16.900 | to see who leaked.

02:21:17.900 | The New York Times in 2003 became the mouthpiece

02:21:20.400 | for George W. Bush of the WMD.

02:21:22.140 | And now, as an American,

02:21:23.740 | I see that the New York Times is becoming a mouthpiece

02:21:25.420 | of a foreign country.

02:21:26.940 | Why do you do that?

02:21:28.140 | - One of the things that's really difficult to know

02:21:30.740 | is where to find the truth.

02:21:32.360 | It does seem that both sides use propaganda

02:21:37.100 | and both sides lie a lot.

02:21:39.680 | - But both sides, as in?

02:21:41.860 | - Both Israel and Palestine.

02:21:43.020 | Pro-Palestine, pro-Israel.

02:21:44.260 | There's a lot of lies.

02:21:45.260 | - I know, but it's a lot of inequality, man.

02:21:50.260 | There's a lot of people on the internet,

02:21:53.340 | but who have the mainstream media siding with?

02:21:57.660 | - Yeah, but thanks to social media.

02:22:00.580 | - Yes, thank God for social media,

02:22:02.260 | because now it's individuals.

02:22:03.860 | They are people.

02:22:04.820 | - Yes.

02:22:05.640 | - They are people.

02:22:06.480 | You're comparing BBC, New York Times,

02:22:08.780 | Washington Post, Wall Street Journal

02:22:11.060 | with just people with a TikTok account.

02:22:13.020 | - Yeah, who have more power, in your view?

02:22:15.140 | - Now, it is actually very, very fascinating

02:22:18.420 | to see the little man having that power over the media.

02:22:20.660 | - In fact, it's proportionally so, this is my problem.

02:22:24.540 | - But you cannot call people with TikTok propagandists

02:22:27.580 | while people being paid to give you the news

02:22:30.220 | and they deliberately lie to you.

02:22:31.780 | - Well, yes, I can.

02:22:32.620 | They're both propagandists.

02:22:34.060 | - Well, okay, yes, yes.

02:22:36.660 | But the mechanism and the intentions are different,

02:22:40.760 | because here's the thing.

02:22:42.660 | - I'd rather have the TikTok guy than the--

02:22:45.260 | - The TikTok guy is a TikTok guy, all right?

02:22:47.540 | But if you have the New York Times being exposed

02:22:52.540 | to be lying, and then they get this UN report,

02:22:55.780 | which is like a disgrace, and you just put the title

02:22:58.980 | and you don't talk about it.

02:22:59.820 | It's like, I'm fine with CNN and Jake Tapper

02:23:02.900 | and all of those people spreading

02:23:05.100 | the rape allegations for years.

02:23:07.340 | I don't even want them to refute them.

02:23:08.960 | I want them to bring the Israeli reports

02:23:11.820 | saying that it didn't happen.

02:23:13.460 | The Israeli media themselves, they didn't even bother.

02:23:16.060 | Not once.

02:23:17.260 | Is that balanced?

02:23:18.540 | That's not.

02:23:19.380 | So that's why people in TikTok,

02:23:21.360 | because they have to take matters in their own hand.

02:23:23.740 | - Yeah, but the problem with the people in TikTok

02:23:26.540 | is the drug, the dopamine rush of getting a lot of likes.

02:23:30.340 | So instead of talking about the death of civilians,

02:23:32.660 | they'll talk about beheaded babies

02:23:34.420 | or the equivalent of, they're going to actually

02:23:37.500 | make up stories because the made up stories

02:23:40.140 | are going to be more viral.

02:23:41.860 | And so now we're just in this scene, this muck of lies.

02:23:45.020 | - And there's a lot of people who actually

02:23:46.620 | expose those lies on TikTok.

02:23:47.980 | So you have both.

02:23:49.100 | You have both.

02:23:50.260 | And it's kind of like the democracy of the social media,

02:23:52.340 | as we always call it.

02:23:53.460 | But if you have the street-run media,

02:23:55.680 | that is the legacy media, CNN, BBC, New York Times,

02:23:58.580 | Fox News, all of those people,

02:24:00.060 | and they are spreading lies,

02:24:01.500 | and they're not even doing their journalistic job

02:24:04.660 | in order to at least bring the other side.

02:24:07.280 | That's problematic.

02:24:08.340 | - And that's worse.

02:24:09.900 | You're supposed to be a journalist.

02:24:11.300 | - Yes.

02:24:12.660 | It's supposed to be a report.

02:24:14.460 | Report!

02:24:15.300 | You know, report.

02:24:16.580 | - Yeah, but I see that this is like a catalyst,

02:24:20.380 | an inspiration for the citizen journalist to rise up.

02:24:24.140 | - This is what you're doing.

02:24:25.420 | - Oh, this, yeah.

02:24:26.380 | - This is what you're doing.

02:24:27.340 | No, this is what you're doing

02:24:28.340 | because you go into the deep dive.

02:24:29.720 | This is like a no-filter thing.

02:24:31.820 | There's no spin.

02:24:32.780 | - The long form.

02:24:33.980 | The long form is going to save us.

02:24:35.600 | (laughing)

02:24:38.020 | - I see why you hate the TikToks,

02:24:39.220 | like a dopamine rush, you know?

02:24:40.380 | - Stupid TikTok.

02:24:42.220 | Five hours later.

02:24:43.060 | - I saw the resentment in your face.

02:24:44.760 | (laughing)

02:24:46.500 | - I can't look away.

02:24:48.080 | - For like those 30 seconds, I do four hours.

02:24:51.100 | (laughing)

02:24:53.340 | - I mean, both have a place.

02:24:54.300 | Both are exciting, you know?

02:24:56.100 | But I can't, it is very dangerous.

02:24:58.460 | Like, you can't look away.

02:25:00.100 | And I almost never, maybe I'm doing it wrong,

02:25:03.700 | but I almost never feel better ever

02:25:06.580 | after having used TikTok.

02:25:08.520 | - Makes two of us.

02:25:09.360 | I can't, I cannot, I cannot.

02:25:11.360 | I have a team.

02:25:12.200 | By the way, I give my password to a team.

02:25:15.780 | I don't even go there

02:25:17.180 | because I went once in a dark night,

02:25:20.780 | very late at night, I went TikTok,

02:25:23.660 | and it was like two hours.

02:25:26.260 | What? - Yeah.

02:25:27.820 | - What?

02:25:28.940 | I said, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

02:25:30.420 | "This is dangerous."

02:25:31.980 | I'm really like an Instagram and Facebook guy.

02:25:34.800 | I don't need that.

02:25:35.900 | - But even there, man.

02:25:36.740 | - And I barely get out of Twitter.

02:25:38.100 | I mean, like X, I don't, I can't.

02:25:40.300 | X is a cesspool, X.

02:25:41.980 | It's just like the concentrated hate in the X is too much.

02:25:45.880 | It's too much, I can't.

02:25:47.060 | - So you don't check it at all?

02:25:48.380 | You try not to check it at all?

02:25:49.580 | It is very intense.

02:25:50.660 | - I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I can't, I can't.

02:25:52.700 | I just like, I post something and I run.

02:25:55.000 | (laughing)

02:25:57.100 | - Post and ghost.

02:25:59.980 | So you're doing comedy here in the United States right now.

02:26:02.700 | - Yes.

02:26:03.540 | - Joe Rogan has the comedy Mothership,

02:26:05.780 | which is an incredible club.

02:26:07.180 | Have you considered doing that club?

02:26:08.980 | - I would love to.

02:26:09.820 | I mean, I--

02:26:10.800 | - Do you know Joe?

02:26:11.700 | - Of course, no.

02:26:12.540 | Who doesn't know Joe?

02:26:13.820 | - I feel like it's a small world of comedy.

02:26:15.780 | That's why I--

02:26:16.740 | - No, I think like Joe's story was like,

02:26:20.460 | what he did and stuff that he did in the UFC

02:26:24.540 | and his podcast and it just, it's very impressive.

02:26:28.620 | The fact that he's there and he's bringing

02:26:31.660 | all of those people, whether they're in comedy

02:26:33.300 | or in his podcast, it's very impressive.

02:26:34.700 | And this is what the media is all about,

02:26:38.180 | what is like the internet is all about,

02:26:39.900 | to give you the experiences of stuff

02:26:41.640 | that you might never experience.

02:26:43.940 | And that is very important.

02:26:45.540 | I mean, you do it with people where like,

02:26:47.180 | you go into their brains.

02:26:48.860 | He goes take people and they take their experiences

02:26:51.260 | and their life and their story.

02:26:52.860 | It is very interesting.

02:26:54.300 | And this is the beauty of that art form

02:26:57.460 | because you have all of these experiences

02:27:00.820 | at the tips of your hands

02:27:01.940 | and it is there for you to learn from, you know?

02:27:05.020 | And what he's doing, like when he moved to Texas

02:27:08.660 | and we did the comedy mothership,

02:27:10.340 | anybody who would like push comedy forward,

02:27:15.140 | that is the most difficult art form

02:27:16.940 | and the most demanding.

02:27:18.100 | And the fact that you do that,

02:27:19.860 | and he might not even be making money out of it,

02:27:21.820 | but he doing that because of his passion,

02:27:23.620 | that is enough.

02:27:24.580 | - Yeah, he really believes in creating this like

02:27:28.500 | place where comedians could be really free.

02:27:31.820 | And one of the cool things about the comedy mothership

02:27:34.460 | is like, comedian is king there.

02:27:36.900 | - Yeah, like there, we have to like,

02:27:39.780 | you have to bow down to the--

02:27:41.660 | - Because you know, the comedian who came there

02:27:43.220 | came after like eating shit.

02:27:44.900 | - Yeah, eating shit.

02:27:45.740 | - Dying out there.

02:27:46.560 | - Everywhere else.

02:27:47.400 | - If you have basically, you're a saint.

02:27:49.180 | (laughing)

02:27:50.940 | - I have eaten shit for many years.

02:27:52.380 | (laughing)

02:27:54.660 | - Now I'm gonna give you shit.

02:27:56.060 | (laughing)

02:27:57.140 | - Ah, it's great.

02:27:58.380 | You already told me what you think

02:28:00.260 | about the state of politics in the United States,

02:28:01.980 | but now tell me what you really think.

02:28:03.980 | (laughing)

02:28:05.980 | What do you think of the choice of Trump versus Biden?

02:28:08.020 | How do we end up here?

02:28:08.860 | - I don't know, man.

02:28:09.700 | I mean, like the fact that like you have two people

02:28:11.700 | over the age of 90, it is--

02:28:14.420 | - I think it's over 100, but that's all right.

02:28:16.060 | - It's all combined, like 170.

02:28:19.180 | It is so sad.

02:28:20.500 | It is so sad that this is what we can produce as a society.

02:28:24.660 | Like a demagogue and a sleepy Joe.

02:28:31.220 | I just, he's too, he's not there, man.

02:28:34.460 | He's gone, he's gone.

02:28:35.980 | I mean, he could, you know like when old people

02:28:40.980 | could be like a danger for themselves?

02:28:43.820 | He's a danger for the whole world.

02:28:45.260 | I mean like the whole world.

02:28:47.260 | Like if an old person would die,

02:28:50.060 | he would like have like a hip replacement.

02:28:52.380 | We can need a new planet because of one decision.

02:28:56.500 | But it's not just that.

02:28:57.420 | It's not that.

02:28:58.260 | It's what are, when I came here, listen, I'm a Democrat.

02:29:03.260 | I always like, and I told you like,

02:29:06.100 | I vote for Bernie Sanders.

02:29:07.620 | I supported him like 2016, but I couldn't vote then.

02:29:12.620 | And of course, a huge fan of Obama.

02:29:15.780 | And one of my things is like,

02:29:19.060 | he's the first Muslim president.

02:29:20.820 | But he killed Muslims.

02:29:21.660 | Like ah, that's the things Muslims do.

02:29:22.820 | But anyways.

02:29:23.660 | (laughing)

02:29:24.660 | - I love that line.

02:29:25.580 | (laughing)

02:29:27.860 | - And it just, I think the whole idea, like my shock is,

02:29:32.860 | I told you about like what Biden said about like,

02:29:39.460 | I'm a Zionist.

02:29:40.300 | Okay, we are Zionists.

02:29:41.140 | But then like Jews are not safe in anywhere other than Israel.

02:29:43.340 | It's like, dude, what the hell are you saying?

02:29:46.100 | And if you don't care about me,

02:29:47.740 | and you don't care about my misery,

02:29:49.540 | why would I care about you winning or losing, you know?

02:29:54.140 | And I have a joke that I told people.

02:29:55.980 | It's like, why would even Biden listen to us?

02:29:59.180 | He just raised $145 million in California alone

02:30:03.140 | from pro-Israeli groups.

02:30:06.700 | I mean, what can we Arabs working

02:30:09.540 | in the vape business do to him?

02:30:11.340 | (laughing)

02:30:13.580 | It's like, we cannot compete with that.

02:30:16.260 | I mean, like practically, I mean, it's like life is unfair.

02:30:20.180 | The guy's a politician.

02:30:21.300 | He needs bills to pay.

02:30:22.460 | He needs a campaign to run.

02:30:23.980 | He needs money.

02:30:25.180 | He will go to the people who will give him money.

02:30:28.220 | Joe Biden is the highest paid politician

02:30:30.780 | from Israeli lobbyists, $4.6 million over the years.

02:30:35.260 | - Yeah, but I also believe in great leaders

02:30:38.300 | that go against all of that.

02:30:40.140 | But unfortunately--

02:30:41.420 | - Bernie Sanders was like that.

02:30:42.980 | - Bernie Sanders, yes, but also age.

02:30:47.180 | I don't wanna be ageist.

02:30:48.260 | - Of course, no, no.

02:30:49.100 | - But even with like, 'cause I remember listening

02:30:51.060 | to Bernie Sanders 20 years ago on "Tom Hartman Show,"

02:30:55.940 | and I don't wanna say anything against Bernie,

02:30:58.940 | but like he was sharper then.

02:31:00.780 | - Of course.

02:31:01.620 | - There's a thing with age where--

02:31:02.620 | - Yeah, of course.

02:31:03.460 | No, I think I'm a huge fan about like putting a limit

02:31:07.500 | on your working years because you don't wanna have

02:31:09.940 | like a Mitch McConnell moment every now

02:31:11.540 | and then because now the whole thing are like,

02:31:13.060 | what is this?

02:31:13.900 | This is not like a house by scare home.

02:31:16.660 | It is unfair, it is unfair.

02:31:19.740 | And that the whole idea that you have like unlimited,

02:31:21.820 | like you have a limit for the president,

02:31:23.340 | but you don't have limit for Congress people and senators.

02:31:26.140 | What do you mean?

02:31:26.980 | This is basically, you can go in

02:31:28.660 | and be in governance forever.

02:31:31.660 | And you know, the longer that you can get,

02:31:33.580 | the more corrupt you will get.

02:31:35.060 | - Yes.

02:31:35.940 | - And that is very concerning for Americans.

02:31:38.980 | - Everybody, everybody becomes corrupt after a year.

02:31:41.580 | I mean, that's why two terms is a good limit.

02:31:44.380 | - For everybody.

02:31:45.380 | - Yeah, and you know, maybe half a term

02:31:48.540 | for Egyptian leaders happens.

02:31:51.340 | - Well, you know, our half term is 15 years.

02:31:53.580 | (laughing)

02:31:55.220 | - Quarter term.

02:31:56.060 | You should come back and run for office there.

02:32:01.060 | - Oh my God, no, no.

02:32:03.940 | There's a curse in Egyptian presidency.

02:32:07.940 | Nobody comes there, like is dead or in jail.

02:32:10.860 | - Yeah.

02:32:11.700 | - It's not the most appealing job.

02:32:13.860 | - They might make a statue of you though,

02:32:15.540 | make you look good.

02:32:16.580 | - After my death?

02:32:17.420 | (laughing)

02:32:18.900 | I look, I look very good dead in a statue.

02:32:21.940 | - Yeah, when you look at what happened with Navalny,

02:32:28.020 | since you kind of really thought about this in Egypt,

02:32:34.420 | what happened with Navalny in Russia?

02:32:37.540 | What do you think about that?

02:32:38.980 | - Yeah, but what happened with Navalny in Russia

02:32:40.580 | is not something new in Russia.

02:32:41.820 | I mean, Putin have like this whole history

02:32:44.180 | of poisoning and killing people.

02:32:45.580 | And it's kind of like pretty much,

02:32:47.420 | I would have to set credit Putin,

02:32:51.100 | he's like bringing us the essence of the dark ages,

02:32:53.580 | the middle ages.

02:32:54.420 | It's like, you know, basically Putin is like,

02:32:58.140 | is the living example of what happens

02:33:00.060 | if Game of Thrones was reality.

02:33:01.780 | (laughing)

02:33:03.100 | It's like death by poison, like a blow up a plane.

02:33:07.060 | It's like mysteriously disappears.

02:33:09.100 | It is so, it is very dark, but it's like, wow.

02:33:14.100 | It's like a, it's a television show.

02:33:20.340 | - Maybe that's what attracts us to that part of the world

02:33:23.580 | is that it's so much on display,

02:33:25.620 | this game of power, of geopolitics, of war.

02:33:30.620 | - No, but the same happens in the West,

02:33:33.140 | but I'm behind closed doors.

02:33:34.420 | It's not that open.

02:33:35.260 | It's not that pronounced, you know.

02:33:38.100 | It's like, oops, Epstein.

02:33:40.780 | (laughing)

02:33:44.260 | It's like, oh.

02:33:45.100 | We just like, I think, I think because of the West

02:33:48.380 | is more advanced, like in movies and cinemas,

02:33:50.500 | we kind of direct it better.

02:33:52.300 | - Yeah.

02:33:53.140 | - I think the outcome is like the way

02:33:54.300 | that you kind of like set the scene.

02:33:55.500 | It's like, scene and scene.

02:33:58.180 | - That's why people are all like landing on the moon.

02:34:00.140 | They're like.

02:34:00.980 | (laughing)

02:34:04.220 | - I get it, but you know, we haven't gone back.

02:34:06.620 | (laughing)

02:34:08.540 | - There's the flat, I mean.

02:34:10.100 | (laughing)

02:34:12.660 | - All right, if we zoom out,

02:34:13.900 | do you think there will always be war in the world?

02:34:17.660 | - Yeah.

02:34:18.500 | - Always be suffering?

02:34:19.320 | - Yes.

02:34:20.160 | - Yeah.

02:34:21.060 | - But here's the thing.

02:34:21.900 | I don't think for long.

02:34:23.420 | I don't think that will happen for long.

02:34:25.180 | - Wait a minute.

02:34:26.020 | - Yeah.

02:34:26.860 | - Yeah.

02:34:27.680 | - Because here's the thing.

02:34:29.060 | Humanity is destined to have war,

02:34:31.380 | especially, it will have war,

02:34:33.260 | but something happened in the last 50 years.

02:34:36.580 | We have had, now we have much more lethal weapons.

02:34:41.460 | The problem is, in the beginning,

02:34:43.340 | it's like swords against swords, horses, cavalry,

02:34:46.100 | like cannons, catapults, mini-missiles,

02:34:48.260 | cheeky, cheeky, cheeky.

02:34:49.380 | But now we're like a press of a button.

02:34:52.300 | You can annihilate the whole planet.

02:34:53.780 | - Yeah.

02:34:54.620 | - And this is the problem.

02:34:55.720 | Wars will always continue.

02:34:56.900 | The problem is when is gonna be the tipping point

02:35:00.220 | where we are actually going to destroy ourselves?

02:35:02.660 | And it is so easy now to destroy ourselves.

02:35:04.940 | The amount of weapons and the quality of weapons

02:35:07.620 | that we have, it is designed to kill more effectively,

02:35:11.300 | more, it just, it is crazy.

02:35:14.420 | It's like we can create our own destruction on ourself,

02:35:16.860 | and I think we're not that far away from it.

02:35:19.340 | - Just looking at nuclear weapons,

02:35:21.500 | the fascinating thing about nuclear weapons,

02:35:23.620 | as I've gotten to learn recently,

02:35:25.600 | just how few people are involved in a full-on nuclear war

02:35:31.720 | that kills, basically kills everybody.

02:35:35.300 | - Yeah.

02:35:36.140 | - Well, three-plus-billion people right away.

02:35:39.700 | - And the consequences of the nuclear winter,

02:35:43.220 | it's unlivable.

02:35:44.940 | - But all it takes is, I mean, one president can do it.

02:35:49.060 | So it could be even a false alarm, misunderstanding.

02:35:52.420 | - Like what happened in the Cuba missile crisis.

02:35:55.860 | - But again, and now there's more nations of progress,

02:36:00.880 | more nations are prepared and ready to launch.

02:36:04.200 | - Yeah.

02:36:05.040 | - I don't know.

02:36:06.960 | - And you have a media and a 24-hours kind of thing

02:36:09.920 | that makes you at edge the whole time, that's crazy.

02:36:13.200 | - There's a dark perspective on this

02:36:15.280 | where there's certain members of the media

02:36:17.760 | that would kind of enjoy the prospect of nuclear war,

02:36:22.200 | like a little bit, just let's get as close to it as possible.

02:36:26.400 | - You have another factor that will contribute to that,

02:36:30.320 | religion.

02:36:32.900 | And remember how the radical Islamists talk about

02:36:38.980 | the end of time and whatever,

02:36:40.020 | but most of the Islamists don't have that much power.

02:36:42.380 | Problem is with Christian Zionists

02:36:43.800 | now being on the top of the world with America.

02:36:45.740 | They have been pushing for that kind of conflict

02:36:48.100 | to kind of escalate, escalate.

02:36:50.180 | Listen to Sarah Palin, it's like, "God wants us here."

02:36:54.180 | Like Karl Rove, all of the new gods.

02:36:57.560 | The dispensationalist Reagan.

02:36:59.800 | There's an incredible book called

02:37:01.160 | Forcing the Hands of Gods, beautiful book.

02:37:03.360 | I read it, it's like it's published 1998,

02:37:05.440 | but it still matters today.

02:37:07.200 | The whole idea of what like,

02:37:08.960 | especially the Zionist Christians who love Israel,

02:37:11.960 | but they hate the Jews, they're anti-Semite,

02:37:14.240 | but they love Israel because of its role.

02:37:16.260 | This is all basically formed because of the interpretation

02:37:19.480 | of the Bible of Schofield

02:37:20.560 | and how they talk about the end of time,

02:37:22.440 | and then Armageddon, and then the late great planet Earth,

02:37:25.200 | and then left behind Sirius, and all of that.

02:37:27.360 | It's all about like, we're heading to Armageddon.

02:37:30.400 | The problem is Islam has the people

02:37:32.640 | that believe that the end of time,

02:37:34.480 | and then we have the Christians

02:37:35.540 | that believe in the end of time.

02:37:36.520 | And then you have Israel happy

02:37:37.780 | that those people are using it for the end of time.

02:37:40.000 | And then the whole idea about them pushing as many weapons

02:37:43.880 | and troops and people in the Middle East

02:37:46.240 | to be there for the nuclear holocaust.

02:37:48.920 | And John Hagee, one of the pastors,

02:37:51.240 | talk about that, about the brimstones,

02:37:52.800 | and it's not gonna be a nuclear holocaust.

02:37:55.200 | All of that people.

02:37:56.480 | It's crazy how people are so despising life

02:37:59.640 | that they are wanting death.

02:38:01.100 | So now, you all would have these revelations,

02:38:04.600 | but these revelations mean nothing

02:38:05.960 | if you don't have an effective weapon

02:38:07.280 | in order to make it happen.

02:38:09.000 | And this is the crazy thing.

02:38:10.680 | And I'm worried that the end is going to be by someone

02:38:14.180 | that wants to meet God a little bit earlier.

02:38:20.320 | - Somebody who's really in a hurry.

02:38:22.120 | Well, I have good news for you.

02:38:25.600 | Maybe we'll become a multi-planetary species.

02:38:28.760 | - Maybe Elon Musk will lead us.

02:38:31.160 | - Lead the way to get out in space.

02:38:32.920 | - Maybe he's one of them.

02:38:34.160 | He's a secret lizard.

02:38:36.860 | - I asked you offline to not mention the lizard people.

02:38:43.140 | They are--

02:38:44.920 | - There's like a whole people

02:38:45.760 | that believe in the lizard people.

02:38:47.320 | It's crazy.

02:38:48.160 | - Actually, I have to be honest.

02:38:49.080 | I haven't fully looked into the lizard people.

02:38:51.120 | I probably should.

02:38:51.960 | - You should.

02:38:52.800 | - Yeah, well, maybe I'm afraid of the truth.

02:38:55.640 | (laughing)

02:38:57.900 | - Then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then.

02:39:03.380 | - The big reveal.

02:39:04.220 | - Removing my face.

02:39:05.320 | - So let's say you're wrong about the end of the world.

02:39:12.000 | - I hope so.

02:39:12.840 | - And we, it all turns out great.

02:39:16.520 | And humanity flourishes.

02:39:19.140 | Why would that happen?

02:39:20.460 | What gives you hope for that trajectory, for humanity?

02:39:25.460 | - Younger people.

02:39:27.500 | The people of TikTok that you don't like.

02:39:30.260 | (laughing)

02:39:32.620 | Yeah, there is a lot of like bullshit there.

02:39:35.900 | - You know, after you saying this,

02:39:37.740 | people just keep sending you TikTok videos.

02:39:39.600 | These younger people, this.

02:39:40.940 | (laughing)

02:39:43.380 | - This woman showing her boobs, that woman.

02:39:45.900 | - That's gonna save us.

02:39:46.740 | That's gonna save us.

02:39:48.380 | - All right, awesome, thank you.

02:39:50.700 | - No, there's like, I think there is a wealth of it.

02:39:55.700 | You know, I remember like the joke that said like,

02:39:58.300 | we thought that like when we have internet,

02:40:00.100 | we're gonna have like be more, you know, more informed.

02:40:04.140 | And now we're watching twerking videos, and that is true.

02:40:07.420 | But on the other side, the fact that you have

02:40:09.860 | the availability of information, I'm learning a lot.

02:40:15.540 | And there's people who are using that platform.

02:40:18.300 | It's not the majority because, you know,

02:40:20.060 | it's not very interesting and exciting.

02:40:22.900 | But I think there might be a tipping point

02:40:26.220 | where there's enough people that will be aware.

02:40:28.980 | And maybe they would collectively do something

02:40:33.020 | in order to bring back the power to the small man.

02:40:35.540 | And maybe it sounds very naive, but we don't know.

02:40:40.020 | We don't know, because you have already seen

02:40:43.600 | the legacy media and the legacy politicians shaking

02:40:47.420 | in the past few months.

02:40:48.380 | - They're getting nervous.

02:40:49.460 | - They're getting nervous because people

02:40:50.660 | are calling them out.

02:40:51.740 | And those people who are like hiding behind their desks,

02:40:53.620 | behind in their offices, and not like holding out for that,

02:40:55.980 | but like people now are calling them out.

02:40:58.260 | And it is not gonna happen like this year or next year,

02:41:00.380 | but I think it's something.

02:41:02.060 | - What advice would you give to those young folks?

02:41:03.860 | - I will never give advice to those people.

02:41:05.620 | (laughing)

02:41:07.820 | - Get off TikTok.

02:41:08.940 | - I know, I will never, I will never,

02:41:10.140 | because like their input is different than mine.

02:41:12.500 | But like there's one thing I learned when people saw me,

02:41:14.940 | did the revolution fail in Egypt?

02:41:16.780 | Did people, that the people, it's like, listen,

02:41:18.740 | the revolution is not an event.

02:41:19.880 | It's not like, hey, we go in, we topple the government.

02:41:21.620 | It's not a revolution.

02:41:22.460 | A revolution is a process, it's a very long process.

02:41:25.420 | And maybe that process, I mean, as much as we don't like

02:41:29.060 | what happened in the Arab world, but the people there,

02:41:31.520 | the awareness that happened and the discussions

02:41:33.860 | that have been opened that you didn't even imagine

02:41:36.580 | what happened in the Middle East is happening.

02:41:39.280 | And maybe the beginning of any hope of change

02:41:43.560 | is that people start talking, speaking out,

02:41:47.080 | talking about stuff they were not allowed to speak about.

02:41:50.300 | Like, for example, Israel.

02:41:52.140 | (laughing)

02:41:54.320 | - The revolution continues, ah, yes.

02:41:56.700 | Bassem, you're a beautiful human being.

02:42:00.360 | It's truly a pleasure and honor to meet you.

02:42:02.680 | I could just feel the love radiating from you.

02:42:05.700 | I hope I get to see you perform live.

02:42:08.000 | I hope to get to see you many more times.

02:42:10.200 | Thank you for being who you are.

02:42:11.680 | - Thank you so much, and I would love to invite you

02:42:13.600 | for my new special, "The Islamo-Nazi Bassem Youssef."

02:42:16.140 | (laughing)

02:42:18.160 | - That should be the title of your autobiography.

02:42:21.120 | Thank you so much.

02:42:22.120 | - Thank you, brother.

02:42:23.720 | Thanks for listening to this conversation

02:42:25.360 | with Bassem Youssef.

02:42:27.280 | To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors

02:42:29.840 | in the description.

02:42:31.440 | And now, let me leave you with some words

02:42:33.440 | from Jon Stewart.

02:42:35.560 | The press can hold this magnifying glass up

02:42:38.240 | to our problems, bringing them into focus,

02:42:40.840 | illuminating issues heretofore unseen,

02:42:44.520 | or they can use that magnifying glass

02:42:47.740 | to light ants on fire, and then perhaps host a week of shows

02:42:51.760 | on the sudden, unexpected, dangerous flaming ant epidemic.

02:42:55.220 | If we amplify everything, we hear nothing.

02:43:00.200 | Thank you for listening, and hope to see you next time.

02:43:04.720 | (upbeat music)

02:43:07.300 | (upbeat music)

02:43:09.880 | [BLANK_AUDIO]

Bassem Youssef: Israel-Palestine, Gaza, Hamas, Middle East, Satire & Fame | Lex Fridman Podcast #424

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