Cal And Jamie Explain The Internet | Salt Bay, Meghan McCain, And Taylor Lorenz

00:00:00.000 | to have some people that are like completely caught up

00:00:02.840 | at internet culture, writing about internet culture

00:00:04.760 | as internet culture strangles and drowns them.

00:00:07.340 | It's like actually like a kind of interesting

00:00:09.620 | from a performance art way of actually capturing the reality

00:00:12.220 | of this crazy whirlwind that is internet culture.

00:00:14.800 | I'm Cal Newport here with Jamie Kilstein

00:00:17.560 | for Cal and Jamie Explain the Internet.

00:00:21.840 | If you're new, the premise here is simple.

00:00:24.400 | I don't use social media.

00:00:25.960 | So I have no idea what's happening online.

00:00:28.120 | Jamie is weaning off of social media.

00:00:30.440 | He too has no idea about what's happening online

00:00:33.460 | which makes us the two worst people in the world

00:00:35.880 | to try to explain up to the moment internet trends.

00:00:39.200 | So that of course is exactly what we're gonna do

00:00:40.800 | on this show.

00:00:41.640 | We have five trends from the last week of internet culture

00:00:45.620 | that Jamie and I will struggle to understand

00:00:48.440 | and explain to you, our long suffering audience.

00:00:51.080 | Jamie, this is our second episode.

00:00:52.360 | So we're one episode in.

00:00:53.280 | How do you think we're doing with this experiment so far?

00:00:56.220 | As people or as podcast hosts?

00:00:58.320 | Because as podcast hosts, I think we're killing it.

00:01:01.120 | As people, I had to glance at Twitter a couple times

00:01:06.120 | to kind of see what was going on.

00:01:09.440 | So I feel like while you don't know at all what's going on,

00:01:13.320 | this show also brings about a certain type of PTSD

00:01:17.480 | for me who used to be engulfed in that culture.

00:01:21.800 | I thought we were short a story this morning.

00:01:24.240 | So I just went to see, I logged on to see

00:01:27.380 | what people were talking about

00:01:29.140 | and Fire James Gunn was trending.

00:01:31.900 | And I kid you not, I had to scroll through

00:01:35.100 | a hundred angry comic book fans

00:01:38.780 | to even figure out what was happening,

00:01:41.420 | what was even happening.

00:01:42.380 | And I still kind of don't know.

00:01:43.980 | I think the Superman thing got fired

00:01:46.380 | and then James Gunn made a pedo joke like a decade ago.

00:01:50.180 | I have no idea.

00:01:51.380 | All I know is like, I like Groot.

00:01:54.140 | And that's as far as my, that's where my alliance is,

00:01:58.980 | which with Groot.

00:02:00.300 | - So you're basically saying the first sponsors

00:02:02.500 | of this video series needs to be our personal therapist

00:02:06.140 | and Groot.

00:02:06.980 | - Yeah.

00:02:07.800 | - Basically sponsored by our therapist

00:02:10.220 | who we're gonna have to see a lot more

00:02:11.660 | after doing this show.

00:02:12.500 | And then also Groot.

00:02:13.700 | Actually, ironically and coincidentally,

00:02:15.200 | my therapist looks a lot like Groot.

00:02:18.260 | So I don't know if that's a good or bad thing.

00:02:21.600 | - I basically talked to a tree.

00:02:23.320 | This is what I'm trying to say.

00:02:24.280 | - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:02:25.120 | Cal has been drugged is what's happening.

00:02:27.600 | Is he was drugged by a family member.

00:02:29.560 | He goes out into nature, talks to a tree.

00:02:31.720 | He comes back and he goes, "I don't know, I feel better."

00:02:33.400 | And then his wife goes, "Great."

00:02:34.560 | And then that's it.

00:02:35.480 | - His name is Solomon.

00:02:36.840 | I've carved a face into it.

00:02:38.480 | We have a good relationship.

00:02:40.200 | Good relationship.

00:02:41.200 | - This show, look, not to hype us up,

00:02:43.200 | but if you are new to the show, here's why it's great.

00:02:45.600 | You get to hear about the garbage

00:02:48.140 | that is happening on Twitter,

00:02:49.640 | that people are consuming their lives with.

00:02:51.520 | And then you get to go outside and hear birds chirping

00:02:53.920 | and realize the world's actually an okay place.

00:02:56.280 | And I'm not saying this show

00:02:57.600 | is to make you feel better than them.

00:03:00.480 | I would love to say the show

00:03:01.920 | is about bringing people together,

00:03:04.440 | waging a war on tribalism.

00:03:07.740 | But also it's like kind of reminding me

00:03:10.720 | what I used to do and why I'm off it

00:03:12.760 | and reminding you guys why it's probably better

00:03:15.120 | to read books and stay off Twitter.

00:03:17.240 | But if you're at a Christmas party this week

00:03:19.800 | and someone's like, "Man, James Gunn, right?"

00:03:21.640 | You can at least be like, "You stupid idiot,"

00:03:23.880 | and know what they're talking about.

00:03:25.440 | - Exactly.

00:03:27.040 | It's the way I describe it on my podcast.

00:03:29.160 | The episode is coming out around the same time as this one.

00:03:31.360 | I was explaining it to my listeners this show.

00:03:33.640 | And the way I said it is,

00:03:34.680 | I think there might be some benefit as well

00:03:37.120 | in othering internet culture.

00:03:39.880 | So when you hear two idiots

00:03:40.880 | that don't know anything about it trying to figure it out,

00:03:43.300 | it does kind of emphasize the absurdity of it all.

00:03:45.800 | So if you're really stuck in the middle of that world,

00:03:49.240 | maybe hearing me have no idea who,

00:03:51.560 | actually I know who James Gunn is,

00:03:52.800 | but I don't really know what you're talking about,

00:03:54.600 | just emphasizes a little bit,

00:03:56.920 | this is not the center of world culture right now.

00:04:00.120 | It's its own weird thing that feels like everything

00:04:02.920 | when you're on the phone,

00:04:04.180 | but you step away for about nine minutes,

00:04:06.520 | you spend some time talking to your tree therapist

00:04:08.760 | and you're like, "Wait, there's more to life than this."

00:04:10.520 | At least that's, so we're hyping ourselves up so much now,

00:04:12.480 | Jamie, like we're awesome.

00:04:13.320 | - No, no, no, this is good.

00:04:14.160 | This is good.

00:04:14.980 | This is what my tree therapist told me to do.

00:04:18.040 | Where isn't it, wouldn't you rather go to see

00:04:22.160 | the new Superman movie and just be like, "That was fun.

00:04:26.000 | "I like Superman, he comes from Krypton."

00:04:28.420 | Instead of being the guy in your pack of friends

00:04:31.160 | that's like, "You know, when they were making this,

00:04:33.200 | "James Gunn really said some problematic things

00:04:35.680 | "and I liked it better."

00:04:36.880 | You will never be invited to a movie again.

00:04:39.360 | Guys, two people I know died this week.

00:04:41.960 | Two people I know died.

00:04:43.720 | The idea of living a life where you are engulfed

00:04:46.800 | in Twitter drama or just cursing about Glenn Greenwald,

00:04:51.800 | like live a life where you don't know

00:04:54.760 | who Glenn Greenwald is.

00:04:56.080 | Isn't that a better life?

00:04:57.120 | Again, no offense to Glenn,

00:04:59.320 | but isn't that a better life?

00:05:01.960 | Just go out and do real things with real people

00:05:04.720 | and you realize that so much of this shit doesn't matter.

00:05:07.360 | With that said, me and Cal are about to dedicate

00:05:09.480 | an entire episode of a podcast

00:05:11.160 | to the shit we're making fun of

00:05:12.560 | 'cause we're hypocrites and it's fun.

00:05:14.880 | - This is probably the wrong time

00:05:16.160 | to introduce our guest host, Glenn Greenwald.

00:05:18.240 | Come on in. - Glenn Greenwald.

00:05:20.080 | - Via satellite from Brazil

00:05:21.520 | with all of the dogs he's adopted.

00:05:24.120 | - We're gonna have to start with explaining Glenn Greenwald,

00:05:25.760 | but let's get into it.

00:05:27.480 | We have, tell the audience, you can confirm,

00:05:31.120 | you and I have not pre-discussed

00:05:33.120 | any of these five trending internet topics

00:05:36.280 | that we're about to go through.

00:05:37.520 | - No, the show's also affecting our friendship.

00:05:39.480 | We can't talk to each other.

00:05:41.400 | Correct.

00:05:42.240 | - Yes, I ignore you.

00:05:43.080 | Okay, here we go.

00:05:43.960 | I am going to click my magic button here.

00:05:47.040 | Item number one, it's a tweet.

00:05:49.720 | - Okay.

00:05:50.560 | - For those who are listening,

00:05:52.040 | it says, "This is ridiculous.

00:05:55.600 | "Shame on FIFA for allowing him to touch, kiss,

00:05:58.000 | "and hold the World Cup.

00:05:59.080 | "Salt Bae, B-A-E, drops salt on meat.

00:06:02.040 | "What is he doing here?"

00:06:03.000 | This is tweeted from someone named Terry Fleurs.

00:06:06.440 | Jamie, I have no idea what's going on here.

00:06:08.240 | What do we even? - Not a clue.

00:06:09.280 | - Okay. - Don't know.

00:06:10.120 | - But this is trending.

00:06:11.400 | It was trending a couple days ago.

00:06:15.160 | This was one of many.

00:06:17.480 | I mean, the outrage, there were,

00:06:19.960 | I don't know who this guy is.

00:06:22.080 | I sort of, this is where our age is gonna show,

00:06:26.880 | I sort of know what Bae means.

00:06:29.160 | I believe Bae, and you know,

00:06:33.640 | our 16-year-old girl demographic,

00:06:35.840 | which is huge and mighty,

00:06:37.280 | they're gonna be very mad that I don't have this right.

00:06:40.240 | I remember Bae first coming out.

00:06:42.600 | I believe he was called Prison Bae,

00:06:46.080 | where there was a picture of this dude in jail.

00:06:51.040 | I don't know what he was in jail for,

00:06:53.440 | but he was, Cal, look at me, stunning.

00:06:56.840 | Like, he had these insane, like, turquoise eyes,

00:07:01.840 | and so they were like Prison Bae.

00:07:04.280 | So I think Bae is what you would call your partner,

00:07:07.360 | kind of like Boo or Babe or whatever.

00:07:10.440 | So some point, people must have liked this guy.

00:07:15.440 | I've put together he has some kind of maybe

00:07:17.240 | cooking show or whatever.

00:07:18.880 | Hence, he originally got the name Salt Bae.

00:07:21.920 | But now, dude, people were so outraged.

00:07:26.880 | There were soccer players who refused

00:07:29.720 | to take pictures with him.

00:07:31.360 | He was going around, like, taking selfies

00:07:35.120 | with every player, and every player kind of looked annoyed.

00:07:38.840 | But I don't know how he got there.

00:07:43.000 | I don't know how he got famous.

00:07:44.960 | I don't know who he is.

00:07:46.400 | I do know what the World Cup is, and that's it.

00:07:49.960 | - So here is, I've done a search for the name.

00:07:52.560 | As I'm showing on the screen now,

00:07:53.640 | a Google search for Salt Bae.

00:07:55.360 | This Washington Post article, I think,

00:07:57.000 | maybe wins the award for, like,

00:07:58.480 | all internet stuff put together.

00:08:00.720 | It says, "From Jared Kushner to Salt Bae,

00:08:03.560 | "here's who Elon Musk was seen with at the World Cup."

00:08:07.280 | So that wins the award.

00:08:10.440 | But here's the thing.

00:08:11.280 | Let's not figure out who this person is

00:08:13.400 | because there's the broader point here,

00:08:15.520 | which is the World Cup was fun, right?

00:08:19.160 | I mean, it was like this final game,

00:08:21.560 | and it was a tie, and they went to penalty kicks,

00:08:24.240 | and there's this Argentinian guy

00:08:25.920 | who's having some redemption story

00:08:27.640 | of leading up or living up to his promise

00:08:31.120 | as this super athlete.

00:08:33.040 | You look at Twitter, you look at this.

00:08:35.400 | This seems like this impulse of,

00:08:38.280 | "I gotta have a negative take.

00:08:41.160 | "If I don't have a negative take,

00:08:42.480 | "no one was gonna pay attention to me,

00:08:43.800 | "no one's gonna think I'm smart."

00:08:46.040 | Why would you focus on this?

00:08:47.920 | Some guy touching the cup,

00:08:50.120 | when you could say, "I just am happy this was fun.

00:08:54.520 | "I watched it on Saturday.

00:08:56.100 | "I had a good day."

00:08:57.320 | - I am in the trending topics right now.

00:09:00.200 | This has 11,000 likes.

00:09:01.640 | Salt Bae can kiss my ass, wanting all that attention,

00:09:03.920 | and touching the cup.

00:09:05.080 | Who the fuck are you, bro?

00:09:06.680 | Your two minutes of fame of up next.

00:09:09.440 | Now, that is nothing compared to @billcorbett.

00:09:12.760 | Someone please give me

00:09:13.600 | Salt Bae's current assassination coordinates.

00:09:15.920 | Okay, so I believe me and Bill follow each other on Twitter.

00:09:19.120 | So mad.

00:09:22.920 | Now, it's like,

00:09:24.740 | I love your point, dude,

00:09:27.360 | because I feel like even

00:09:29.900 | new trying to be off social media less,

00:09:32.920 | definitely trying not to be,

00:09:34.120 | or not being negative on social media, Jamie,

00:09:37.480 | looked at that and still was kind of like,

00:09:40.120 | "Oh, I wonder who this asshole is."

00:09:42.000 | Like, dude, I'm not part of outrage culture anymore,

00:09:44.680 | and my brain still goes there.

00:09:47.100 | And I'm also a really positive person.

00:09:48.880 | I'm always a look on the bright side, whatever,

00:09:50.900 | and I am still so much getting over

00:09:53.280 | what social media does to your brain

00:09:56.060 | that the idea of,

00:09:57.720 | what you just said is advice I would give to anyone else

00:10:00.060 | on any other topic that is not on social media.

00:10:02.540 | - Right. - And I didn't even

00:10:04.800 | think about that.

00:10:05.640 | - I mean, this is-- - Like, how,

00:10:06.460 | why does anyone even know

00:10:07.960 | that he was on the fucking field?

00:10:09.400 | - That's what I'm saying.

00:10:10.240 | That tweet thread or topic

00:10:11.720 | is like the Lionel Messi of outrage culture.

00:10:14.680 | It's like the,

00:10:16.040 | like a peak,

00:10:17.280 | this is an incredibly skilled application

00:10:19.360 | of professional outrage,

00:10:20.540 | to be able to find an angle.

00:10:22.520 | Like, I can find an angle

00:10:24.380 | in this kind of feel good, fun thing.

00:10:26.080 | I can find an angle to be upset with.

00:10:27.320 | Yeah, it's a little esoteric,

00:10:28.560 | but I can get whatever, 10,000 likes.

00:10:30.240 | I mean, look, it's possible

00:10:32.400 | that like in the day leading up to the World Cup finals,

00:10:36.700 | this guy, Salt Bae, had said,

00:10:39.880 | look, to his local community,

00:10:41.560 | I am gonna pay to gather

00:10:43.280 | for all of the children in the town.

00:10:45.600 | I'm gonna pay for a bus.

00:10:46.600 | We're gonna take them to the stadium.

00:10:48.080 | We're gonna give them a World Cup experience.

00:10:49.680 | And everyone was happy,

00:10:50.680 | and they gathered the children in a bus,

00:10:52.880 | and they're like, thank you, Salt Bae.

00:10:54.460 | Thank you, Padre Bae.

00:10:56.340 | - Slowly locking the door to the bus.

00:10:58.220 | - Yeah, slowly locking the door to the bus.

00:11:00.260 | They're driving towards Qatar.

00:11:02.060 | You know, they take the turn into the sea,

00:11:06.040 | drowning all the children.

00:11:06.940 | Okay, if that had happened,

00:11:08.300 | he shouldn't be touching the World Cup.

00:11:10.820 | - Let's say Salt Bae takes all the kids.

00:11:13.740 | He goes, hey, we're gonna meet Messi.

00:11:14.940 | Aren't you excited?

00:11:15.780 | And they're like, hooray, hooray.

00:11:16.980 | Finally, something good in my life.

00:11:18.300 | - Bless you, bless you, Father Bae.

00:11:20.220 | Bless you.

00:11:21.060 | - Bless Father Bae, Father Bae.

00:11:22.820 | And then again, leaves the bus once again,

00:11:25.360 | slowly locks the door,

00:11:27.100 | calls over the government for Qatar,

00:11:28.820 | and goes, I found a bunch of gay kids.

00:11:30.940 | Go do what you do.

00:11:32.260 | Go Qatar 'em.

00:11:33.900 | And then he runs onto the field

00:11:35.500 | with his little autograph book,

00:11:36.780 | and he's like, it's me, Salt Bae.

00:11:38.380 | - And grabs the cop.

00:11:39.220 | Yeah, I get it.

00:11:40.060 | Then I would be upset.

00:11:41.100 | I would be upset.

00:11:42.540 | - What if Salt Bae,

00:11:44.580 | you know, he is a person of color,

00:11:46.220 | but what if he took that cop,

00:11:47.500 | and, you know, he drew,

00:11:50.500 | he just wrote white power on it.

00:11:52.060 | Not good.

00:11:52.900 | - I would get it.

00:11:53.720 | I would get it, yeah.

00:11:54.560 | (laughing)

00:11:55.400 | - Let's make that man trend on Twitter.

00:11:58.460 | Let's make the man who just homophobically

00:12:01.180 | had a bus full of children killed

00:12:02.620 | who just wanted to meet a soccer player.

00:12:04.580 | - Before, in an unrelated incident,

00:12:06.660 | writing white power on the World Cup.

00:12:10.200 | Okay, I get it.

00:12:11.460 | This is someone we should be upset about.

00:12:13.300 | - That should be a trending story.

00:12:15.580 | - That is appropriate outrage.

00:12:17.200 | All right, story number two.

00:12:19.740 | Let's see what we got here.

00:12:21.060 | Chrome tabs.

00:12:22.380 | Ooh, this is completely blind.

00:12:25.780 | All it says on my screen share here is Twitter.

00:12:28.740 | Tweet/Twitter.

00:12:30.100 | - Oh yeah, all of mine, 'cause again,

00:12:31.540 | I don't have TikTok.

00:12:32.700 | - All right, here we go.

00:12:36.280 | For those who are listening,

00:12:37.380 | this is from Franklin Graham,

00:12:39.340 | blue check verified.

00:12:41.500 | Here we go.

00:12:42.340 | Franklin Graham is the president of Samaritan's Purse.

00:12:46.380 | Okay.

00:12:47.220 | Amy Grant announced that she and her husband,

00:12:49.780 | Vince Gill, are going to host a same-sex wedding

00:12:52.620 | on their farm for her niece.

00:12:54.380 | Amy is quoted as saying,

00:12:55.340 | "Jesus, you just narrowed it down to two things,

00:12:58.500 | "love God and each other."

00:13:01.380 | All right, this is another trending tweet.

00:13:02.940 | Is that right, Jamie?

00:13:03.780 | This was getting a lot of attention this week on Twitter.

00:13:05.620 | - At least, here's the problem.

00:13:07.240 | If I go to check trending things

00:13:10.380 | because of the algorithm,

00:13:12.300 | it's only pro wrestling and fighting,

00:13:16.060 | mixed martial arts.

00:13:17.260 | So I just have to go to what is overall trending.

00:13:20.260 | And this was indeed trending a couple of days ago.

00:13:25.260 | - And Vince Gill, is that the Breaking Bad?

00:13:28.140 | Am I thinking of the right person,

00:13:28.980 | the creator of the show, Breaking Bad?

00:13:30.780 | - Definitely not.

00:13:31.620 | That is Vince Gill again.

00:13:32.960 | Vince Gill, I believe, judging by his name,

00:13:35.620 | I think he's a country music star.

00:13:37.300 | - That makes more sense, I suppose.

00:13:40.340 | - Amy Grant, you may remember,

00:13:42.900 | because I assume, as my mom did,

00:13:45.300 | you took many car rides to your elementary school

00:13:48.180 | with her blaring Amy Grant.

00:13:50.060 | My mom was very big into Amy Grant,

00:13:52.100 | very big into Celine Dion.

00:13:54.140 | Those were her jams.

00:13:56.500 | - All right, so let's look at some responses here.

00:13:57.820 | This will help clarify what's going on.

00:13:59.020 | - So the responses, I think,

00:14:01.680 | I didn't read the rest of Franklin's thing,

00:14:03.920 | but I'm looking at responses.

00:14:05.180 | And the story itself is just a story.

00:14:07.620 | And I think it's a good story.

00:14:09.200 | - Oh, this is about Franklin.

00:14:12.100 | Franklin is just the son of Billy Graham.

00:14:14.060 | So this is an evangelical.

00:14:15.140 | - Oh, I didn't know that.

00:14:17.260 | - That was-

00:14:18.100 | - So that makes this even more interesting.

00:14:19.220 | - Because look at his, it's a thread.

00:14:21.340 | He posts a story,

00:14:22.340 | but then the next thing Franklin Graham says is,

00:14:24.940 | yes, we are to love God and love each other,

00:14:27.380 | but if we love God, we will seek to obey his word.

00:14:29.460 | Jesus told us, if you love me, keep my commandments,

00:14:32.360 | John 14, 15.

00:14:33.460 | God defines what is sin, not us.

00:14:35.940 | And his word is clear that homosexuality is a sin.

00:14:38.780 | Also, what the hell is Salt Bae doing at your wedding?

00:14:41.900 | That's his follow-up.

00:14:43.220 | That's his follow-up tweet right there.

00:14:44.780 | - Okay, so this is like-

00:14:45.620 | - Hey kids, you want to go to a wedding?

00:14:48.180 | - It'll be fun.

00:14:49.340 | There's definitely not boxes full of poisonous vipers

00:14:53.140 | that I will release in the bus once the doors are locked.

00:14:55.940 | (laughing)

00:14:57.540 | So this is like old school.

00:14:58.900 | This is what's his tweet.

00:14:59.740 | Okay, so this is like old school,

00:15:02.320 | like anti-gay marriage, homophobia stuff.

00:15:03.900 | - Back in the 90s, baby.

00:15:04.740 | - It's like retro.

00:15:05.980 | I see, so there's sort of a,

00:15:07.780 | it's like a retro,

00:15:11.220 | what's the word?

00:15:12.060 | Like a retro hate type thing.

00:15:13.060 | So there's sort of like a nostalgia to this going around.

00:15:16.060 | Like this guy looks old.

00:15:17.700 | I'm looking at a picture of Franklin Graham here.

00:15:19.420 | - We all remember Amy Grant, the baby, baby, like, yep.

00:15:23.020 | And then, yeah, we all remember Billy Graham.

00:15:25.660 | And here's the thing.

00:15:26.740 | Many people might not know this.

00:15:29.760 | And in fact, this is going to sound sarcastic.

00:15:31.420 | I'm Christian and I love that Amy Grant's doing this.

00:15:36.420 | And I think that like, look, man,

00:15:39.100 | there's a lot of things in the Bible that are sins.

00:15:42.500 | You know what the biggest one is?

00:15:43.580 | Pride.

00:15:45.340 | Like we do this shit every day.

00:15:46.940 | The whole point of, you know,

00:15:51.060 | Jesus dying for our sins and whatever is being like,

00:15:54.660 | hey, we all fuck up every day.

00:15:56.900 | We're all sinners every day.

00:15:58.460 | How many of you waited until marriage to have sex?

00:16:02.660 | I know I didn't.

00:16:03.900 | Got me in a lot of trouble.

00:16:05.260 | We all do it every day.

00:16:08.000 | And the point is we are trying to be a good person.

00:16:10.000 | The point is we are trying to be better people every day.

00:16:12.700 | That's it.

00:16:13.540 | And if you are, you know, this story,

00:16:18.540 | and I'm gonna dunk on the left as well,

00:16:23.340 | is you'd also have people on the left who I'm seeing,

00:16:26.020 | they would repost this story and they'd be like,

00:16:28.940 | fuck you, you Christians.

00:16:30.700 | Screw you, look what Amy Grant's doing.

00:16:32.540 | Look at all these little bitch ass Christians

00:16:34.900 | like getting mad.

00:16:35.900 | And it's like, hey man, Amy Grant's a bitch ass Christian

00:16:38.900 | and she's being awesome.

00:16:40.820 | If you're mad that a couple is getting married,

00:16:44.600 | you should reevaluate things.

00:16:48.140 | And also if your first instinct isn't to be like,

00:16:50.740 | oh my God, how awesome that this gay Christian couple

00:16:54.540 | isn't gonna feel alone or not gonna feel like they belong.

00:16:58.160 | And like you have this like person with a good voice

00:17:00.600 | and platform officiating her family members,

00:17:04.360 | by the way, family members wedding,

00:17:06.320 | like that's a beautiful thing.

00:17:07.740 | If on either side, your first instinct is like

00:17:12.420 | trash someone, I think that's rough.

00:17:15.940 | - That's Twitter, that's Twitter.

00:17:17.860 | What's the angle?

00:17:18.700 | What's the angle?

00:17:19.520 | Either we can use this to push it in someone's face

00:17:22.380 | or attack.

00:17:23.340 | I mean, but let me say, here's the, you know,

00:17:25.700 | there's progress in society.

00:17:27.700 | I think it's progress that you and I look at

00:17:29.700 | just the description of this story

00:17:32.580 | and we can't figure out why the hell this is trending.

00:17:34.660 | I think that's a good sign.

00:17:35.800 | I mean, I'm thinking like, so is this farm haunted?

00:17:38.300 | Like where is this going?

00:17:39.940 | Is this like a murder farm?

00:17:42.000 | Like did it actually took some digging to be like,

00:17:44.940 | oh, it's Franklin Graham.

00:17:46.940 | And it's a kind of like a retro like Christian thing.

00:17:50.060 | That's, you know, the fact that that wasn't obvious

00:17:52.980 | that this would be, yeah.

00:17:54.940 | I'm trying to find some positive.

00:17:55.900 | - I haven't heard an Amy Grant song in a while.

00:17:57.960 | If it was Amy Grant came back from the dead

00:18:00.660 | to officiate a wedding at her haunted farm.

00:18:04.180 | - Let's trim that.

00:18:05.020 | - Let's trim that.

00:18:06.300 | - Zombie Amy Grant.

00:18:09.180 | - Yeah.

00:18:10.020 | (laughing)

00:18:10.840 | - Host wedding at haunted farm.

00:18:12.820 | - Attempts to perform ceremony

00:18:14.840 | with zombie limbs falling to ground

00:18:18.360 | and being sucked in by other zombies.

00:18:20.640 | Yeah, man.

00:18:21.480 | - Amen.

00:18:22.320 | - It's a trending story.

00:18:23.140 | And Hey, I want to talk, you know,

00:18:24.500 | this story actually came up on my podcast,

00:18:27.180 | Advice Not Taken.

00:18:28.380 | And I used it as an opportunity to promote this

00:18:31.220 | because, you know, I have been talking about

00:18:34.980 | religion, but in a sort of like feed the poor,

00:18:37.860 | help people kind of way.

00:18:39.100 | And when this came up, I was sort of reminded

00:18:41.780 | that a lot of people will use religion to discriminate

00:18:45.620 | or whatever, which is a real bummer.

00:18:47.860 | And, you know, I think to me,

00:18:50.980 | to me, one of the things I said is, look, man,

00:18:53.500 | if you're a kid raised in a household and you're gay

00:18:57.460 | and you're being told that you're going to hell,

00:18:59.220 | you're being told that you're broken,

00:19:00.380 | you're being told that you can't be a Christian,

00:19:01.900 | worst case scenario, this kid is going to act out,

00:19:05.660 | self-harm, drink drugs, sleep with people

00:19:09.100 | you don't want them sleeping with, blah, blah, blah.

00:19:10.780 | But best case, if you really care about Jesus

00:19:14.020 | and religion and God,

00:19:15.260 | they're certainly going to turn away from that.

00:19:17.300 | You know, I mean, I'm not gay.

00:19:20.140 | And despite what many of you have told me on the internet

00:19:22.940 | and I'm, Twitter's so bad.

00:19:24.980 | - Sorry, next story.

00:19:26.020 | Okay, go on.

00:19:26.860 | (laughing)

00:19:28.900 | - Is co-host of Cal and JB explain the internet gay.

00:19:31.900 | And the reason I turned away from God was religion.

00:19:37.980 | I just saw shit like this and I'm like,

00:19:40.540 | oh, is this the priority?

00:19:41.820 | I don't want to be a part of that.

00:19:43.100 | When your religion is so bad, it makes people be like,

00:19:45.860 | I don't want to get to know God,

00:19:48.020 | the maybe creator of the universe.

00:19:49.980 | It's like, you're fucking up, man.

00:19:51.700 | You should be prioritizing, whether it's on social media,

00:19:54.100 | whether it's religion, whether it's in your community,

00:19:56.300 | how do you prioritize lifting people up

00:19:59.260 | instead of just cutting people down?

00:20:00.780 | Which is what social media is.

00:20:02.460 | - Which is, I think a very good point,

00:20:04.300 | very fair critique of Franklin Graham.

00:20:06.300 | If he's the son of the most famous Christian evangelist

00:20:09.740 | of the 20th century, he's an evangelical Christian.

00:20:12.180 | So that is a Christian with an imperative to save souls.

00:20:17.180 | - Yes.

00:20:18.260 | - How is there any sort of evangelism in that tweet?

00:20:21.020 | Like that is entirely just dunking for the benefit

00:20:23.700 | of your existing audience.

00:20:24.940 | That's like, clap for me, I want more followers from people.

00:20:28.460 | I mean, what about that tweet would ever make you think

00:20:31.340 | this is definitely going to bring more people in?

00:20:35.620 | So I think your point's very well taken,

00:20:37.020 | that if you grow up and think religion

00:20:39.060 | is the key to salvation in life,

00:20:41.660 | you would say, what I really don't want to do

00:20:43.500 | is find a way to ensure my kid will not be religious.

00:20:47.180 | To pick out one thing and harp on it in such a way

00:20:49.460 | that I've definitely driven that kid away from religion.

00:20:52.100 | I'm not an expert on Jesus,

00:20:53.660 | but it doesn't seem very Jesus-like.

00:20:57.100 | - Geez.

00:20:57.940 | - All right.

00:20:58.780 | - People, if you're watching the video,

00:20:59.620 | my computer is about to die and I'm just scrambling

00:21:02.820 | to plug it in really quick.

00:21:05.220 | - Next article here.

00:21:06.540 | Co-host of "Cal and Jamie Explains the Internet,"

00:21:09.860 | computer almost dies, worse than Salt Bay.

00:21:15.900 | - Gay co-host.

00:21:17.580 | - Gay co-host of "Cal and Jamie Explains the Internet"

00:21:19.660 | has never seen a computer before.

00:21:21.920 | (laughing)

00:21:23.120 | - Well, what's funny is to shout out to producer Jesse.

00:21:27.360 | Cal and I actually worked very hard

00:21:29.160 | to make it look better this time.

00:21:30.800 | Every show, by the way, you guys are just the hipsters

00:21:33.320 | who are gonna remember when this show is huge.

00:21:36.120 | We really did work hard to fix it,

00:21:39.040 | and now I've completely screwed it up.

00:21:40.560 | - I think it looks good.

00:21:41.400 | Actually, this one looks good.

00:21:42.240 | I think we got a good position here.

00:21:44.120 | All right, well, in the meantime,

00:21:44.960 | I'm gonna load up the next story.

00:21:46.040 | This one I'm gonna hope, I'm just gonna,

00:21:47.680 | I'm gonna assume this next story is gonna be more uplifting

00:21:50.600 | and make us feel, this for sure will make us feel better

00:21:54.960 | about ourselves and the internet.

00:21:56.400 | Here we go.

00:21:57.480 | - Let's do it.

00:21:58.400 | - All right, Megan McCain.

00:22:00.800 | On the first night of Hanukkah,

00:22:02.480 | the anti-Israel New York Times issues a crossword puzzle

00:22:05.560 | that looks like a swastika.

00:22:07.800 | - There we go.

00:22:08.640 | Wait, keep reading the tweet

00:22:10.760 | because you have the Twitter sass coming.

00:22:13.160 | - Oh, yeah, can't make this shit up.

00:22:16.040 | We see you, New York Times.

00:22:18.200 | We see you.

00:22:19.480 | Yeah, very, very haunted.

00:22:22.520 | We see you, New York Times.

00:22:24.360 | We see you.

00:22:25.200 | It sounds like something you would hear

00:22:26.600 | at Amy Grant's haunted farm.

00:22:28.520 | - Yeah, we see you, devourer of souls.

00:22:32.240 | We see you as you emerge from the haunted halo.

00:22:35.480 | What, okay, first of all, sound of loud sighing.

00:22:40.440 | I think we all just kind of agree with that.

00:22:42.600 | Is the idea here that the New York Times,

00:22:45.680 | there's people at the New York Times,

00:22:46.520 | they got together, like in a conference room.

00:22:48.360 | - Yes.

00:22:49.200 | - Okay, we all agree.

00:22:50.640 | We all agree that we hate Israel.

00:22:52.880 | Okay.

00:22:53.800 | What we need to do is get the vague shape

00:22:57.680 | of a swastika in the paper.

00:23:00.080 | - Ooh, and can I chime in here?

00:23:01.840 | - Sure.

00:23:02.680 | - What would be the most hilarious day to do it on?

00:23:05.000 | - Yeah, and we need to wait till--

00:23:06.520 | - Isn't one of their weird holidays coming up?

00:23:09.160 | - And we also, one of their weird holidays coming up.

00:23:10.920 | So we're gonna put a swastika in the paper

00:23:14.960 | in the hopes of encouraging Nazis.

00:23:19.960 | I mean, what's the, let's just like,

00:23:21.920 | let's pull this thread.

00:23:23.600 | - You know what, fellas, we've talked about it a long time.

00:23:26.000 | The Washington Post, they're still really well-known

00:23:28.120 | for Woodward and Bernstein breaking a lot of stories

00:23:30.600 | and people are still kind of upset with us

00:23:32.280 | for the weapons of mass destruction thing.

00:23:34.120 | How do we make ourself relevant again?

00:23:38.640 | Nazism?

00:23:40.440 | - We're gonna be pro-Nazi.

00:23:42.160 | - I mean, look, I am looking at this thing.

00:23:44.400 | You know, I see the, what would you call it?

00:23:48.120 | The arms.

00:23:49.440 | It has like two out of the three pieces

00:23:51.160 | of the swastika arms, but it kind of falls apart

00:23:53.280 | when you would have the final piece.

00:23:56.480 | I'm giving this a lot of attention, Meghan McCain,

00:23:59.120 | and I see you have, it's swastika-esque,

00:24:02.640 | but I think it's missing the key component.

00:24:05.480 | - How as a, look, as an art contesseur,

00:24:11.480 | is saying he doesn't see it.

00:24:13.880 | Also, I feel like this is a bit of a Rorschach test

00:24:17.040 | kind of situation, which is like,

00:24:19.320 | if you see a swastika there,

00:24:21.920 | why are you thinking about swastikas so much?

00:24:24.760 | Do you know what I mean?

00:24:25.680 | Like, who, I would have never been like,

00:24:30.040 | there it is, there's my boy, there's a swastika.

00:24:33.760 | Like, I'm just, I'm not looking for that.

00:24:35.920 | And also, look, even if the New York Times

00:24:39.760 | was indeed anti-Semitic or whatever,

00:24:43.640 | which, pick a choice, guys.

00:24:48.480 | Do the Jews run the media or are they anti-Semitic?

00:24:52.360 | Which one is it?

00:24:53.960 | - And also, it's Will Shorts.

00:24:55.880 | It's not even like the New York Times writ large.

00:24:58.680 | It's like the nicest man in the world.

00:25:00.360 | Have you seen Will Shorts?

00:25:01.960 | I have watched a documentary.

00:25:03.320 | I have watched a documentary on Will Shorts

00:25:06.440 | and how they make these crossword puzzles.

00:25:08.760 | I know a lot about Will Shorts.

00:25:10.760 | He looks like Calvin's father from "Calvin and Hops."

00:25:15.760 | He has a mustache.

00:25:17.280 | He's like a short, cappy-looking Midwestern guy

00:25:20.520 | who does his entire life-

00:25:21.360 | - All of his answers to questions

00:25:22.920 | are about building character.

00:25:24.480 | - Yeah, and I guess he is the last person

00:25:27.720 | I guess you would assume is like,

00:25:29.720 | he's decided late in his career

00:25:32.280 | to secretly move Nazism into-

00:25:34.480 | - And also, like, (laughs)

00:25:37.400 | you know how people, when they realize

00:25:39.240 | that maybe they've been chasing superficial things

00:25:41.720 | for the first half of their life,

00:25:42.920 | they really dedicate the second half of their life

00:25:44.880 | to doing something altruistic?

00:25:47.640 | That's what Will Shorts did with Nazism.

00:25:50.120 | - Exactly, that's his second act.

00:25:51.920 | Here, I'm gonna put a photo up.

00:25:52.760 | - His second mountain.

00:25:53.600 | Yeah, as David Brooks, also New York Times writer, would say.

00:25:55.840 | Yeah, man, why?

00:25:58.280 | - Here we go.

00:25:59.120 | - Also, if we're just, can we just like be-

00:26:02.000 | - That's it.

00:26:02.840 | (laughs)

00:26:03.680 | - That's it.

00:26:04.520 | - The 2022's face of Nazism.

00:26:07.440 | - Yeah, he's like a guy with a mustache.

00:26:09.840 | - Yeah, yeah, well.

00:26:11.600 | - No one with a mustache has ever been associated

00:26:14.800 | with any sort of anti-Semitic behavior, so we're good.

00:26:18.200 | - Come on, guys, come on, guys, get it together.

00:26:20.600 | Can I just say one more thing, though?

00:26:22.640 | - Yeah, please.

00:26:23.480 | - If we're just talking pragmatically,

00:26:25.320 | also, like, I don't wanna get political,

00:26:29.480 | but like APAC, like the biggest Israeli lobby,

00:26:33.160 | they have bought ads,

00:26:34.600 | they have had full-page ads in the New York Times,

00:26:36.760 | but also, like, pragmatically,

00:26:39.240 | even if they were a bunch of people

00:26:41.640 | who didn't like fucking Netanyahu

00:26:44.640 | or didn't like Israel or whatever,

00:26:46.080 | there are so many checks that you have to go through,

00:26:50.160 | you know this, as a writer, right?

00:26:52.640 | That if anyone, besides,

00:26:55.240 | I don't know if Meghan McCain was the one

00:26:56.360 | who started the outrage, but if anyone,

00:26:59.280 | and I saw a lot of, like, blue-check,

00:27:00.880 | respectable, respected people talking about,

00:27:03.680 | if anyone at the New York Times caught this,

00:27:05.600 | if an intern, if you're about to post anything

00:27:09.080 | that resembles a fucking swastika,

00:27:11.800 | I feel like someone's gonna flag it

00:27:14.280 | and be like, "Hey, guys, let's add a couple more black dots,

00:27:17.400 | "this is looking very Hitler-esque."

00:27:19.000 | - Right, there's a checkbox on the copyedit form.

00:27:21.920 | - Yeah, dude.

00:27:22.760 | - Does it look like a swastika?

00:27:23.600 | So now I'm looking at the responses,

00:27:25.440 | so there's a lot of, like, that's disgusting, hateful,

00:27:27.560 | but look at this right here.

00:27:29.200 | It's a Hawking cruise, the ancient Hindu symbol.

00:27:34.200 | So isn't there, yeah, there's an ancient Hindu symbol

00:27:36.840 | that the swastika is a perversion of,

00:27:38.400 | but it's like faces the other way or something like that.

00:27:40.680 | - And if you were a bored kid,

00:27:42.120 | you'd try to make, like, a square out of those.

00:27:44.560 | - I definitely would, that's a great doodle.

00:27:46.320 | - Yeah.

00:27:47.480 | - Man, people are just,

00:27:48.320 | here's what I'm getting from these reactions.

00:27:49.520 | - Just cancel my subscription.

00:27:51.080 | (laughs)

00:27:51.920 | So that's why you cancel your subscription, guys.

00:27:55.120 | - I will give you--

00:27:55.960 | - No weapons of mass destruction.

00:27:57.280 | - An over-decade war, countless of soldiers' lives lost,

00:28:01.720 | and you're canceling your subscription

00:28:03.080 | because this kind of looks like, my God.

00:28:07.280 | - I will give you $10,000 if that gentleman

00:28:10.520 | was subscribed and canceled because of this.

00:28:13.920 | I will give you $10,000.

00:28:15.200 | Oh my God, this is starting to get, all right.

00:28:19.200 | Oh, and then we get January 6th references.

00:28:21.440 | Man, look at this, this is just terrible.

00:28:23.080 | All right, for people who are listening and not watching,

00:28:25.440 | I'm just scrolling through the comments.

00:28:28.080 | And again, I go back to my same point from last week.

00:28:30.520 | - That these are people that follow Meghan McCain.

00:28:32.360 | - Yeah, I mean, okay, if you're Meghan McCain,

00:28:34.800 | okay, maybe you're like, I wanna build a following.

00:28:39.040 | There's a commercial or political value to that.

00:28:41.800 | This type of content attracts followers, right?

00:28:44.280 | It might be a little slimy, but you get it.

00:28:46.480 | I just cannot for the life of me

00:28:47.840 | understand why you would be,

00:28:48.920 | I'm looking at like, this is the 15th responder.

00:28:53.120 | Like why are you this deadly spell saying,

00:28:56.160 | I'm ready to believe it wasn't intentional,

00:28:57.880 | but I'm not prepared to believe it's obvious.

00:28:59.600 | Then Ethel Faust talking about the rotational symmetry.

00:29:02.840 | And then-

00:29:03.680 | - Wait, is that real?

00:29:05.520 | The New York Times Games one?

00:29:06.960 | - Ooh.

00:29:09.560 | - Hold on.

00:29:10.600 | - No, no, look at the, yeah, but look at the date.

00:29:12.080 | Look at the date, 2017.

00:29:14.840 | Look at this nonsense.

00:29:16.200 | Yeah, so they went back and found something.

00:29:18.600 | It is funny though.

00:29:20.400 | So in 2017, New York Times Games tweeted,

00:29:22.280 | yes, hi, it's not a swastika, honest to God.

00:29:24.520 | No one sits down to make a crossword puzzle and says,

00:29:26.240 | hey, you know what would look cool.

00:29:28.160 | That's funny.

00:29:29.000 | That's legitimately funny, but that's from 2017.

00:29:31.600 | So they've had this issue, which goes to show

00:29:34.880 | crossword puzzles have to be,

00:29:36.720 | I learned this from the Will Shorts documentary.

00:29:38.400 | They have to be,

00:29:39.320 | there's some sort of symmetry that the designers like to do.

00:29:44.400 | And so this is a common form of symmetry.

00:29:48.040 | I think like this shape,

00:29:49.520 | that rough shape probably comes up a lot.

00:29:51.360 | It's just an artifact of the constraints

00:29:53.160 | of making a crossword puzzle.

00:29:54.640 | - So funny.

00:29:56.880 | - All right, this is-

00:29:57.720 | - And even like when I saw like,

00:29:59.600 | there are people on the left trying to dunk on Meghan McCain

00:30:02.720 | and like, they'd be like, for the record,

00:30:04.600 | I am very pro-Israel.

00:30:07.320 | And then they would have to make their,

00:30:08.680 | like you would have to preface it.

00:30:10.240 | You have to, you know, on Twitter,

00:30:11.560 | when I was super political,

00:30:12.960 | you'd have to give all your like bona fides

00:30:15.400 | before you make a dunk, just on the left.

00:30:17.520 | So if I'm gonna dunk on someone on the right,

00:30:19.040 | I'd have to be like,

00:30:19.880 | while I am aware of my white straight cis privilege,

00:30:23.040 | also, Ted Cruz, you're a fuck face.

00:30:25.520 | You know what I mean?

00:30:26.360 | Like I would always have to like, whatever.

00:30:28.440 | I used to call it like progressive disclaimers.

00:30:31.080 | - Well, because you have,

00:30:31.960 | you get dunk splashback is what you're trying to avoid.

00:30:34.440 | Like you're coming in the dunk,

00:30:35.600 | but then you get the splashback dunk of like,

00:30:38.840 | okay, I get it.

00:30:39.680 | Dunk splashback is something you have to avoid.

00:30:41.240 | I get it.

00:30:42.080 | And it always, and I'm sure it always works.

00:30:43.040 | You have to carefully do all your disclaimers.

00:30:45.000 | Okay.

00:30:45.840 | - Yeah, everything was fine for me.

00:30:47.000 | - Yeah, and you were happy.

00:30:48.520 | So moral of the story.

00:30:49.880 | Oh man, I feel like the internet's like extra,

00:30:52.560 | extra slimy this week.

00:30:54.280 | - Yeah.

00:30:55.440 | Yeah.

00:30:56.280 | Yeah.

00:30:57.120 | - All right, let's see here.

00:30:58.920 | This one's not gonna help us.

00:30:59.960 | - Something good, roll the dice.

00:31:00.920 | - Here's an article that was trending in the New York Post.

00:31:03.720 | I'm sure it'll be fine.

00:31:04.560 | All right, here we go.

00:31:05.520 | Elon Musk briefly suspends Taylor Lorenz's Twitter account

00:31:10.520 | for doxing, doxing in quotation marks.

00:31:13.760 | Oh my God, there's so much internet culture again,

00:31:16.480 | injected in one headline.

00:31:18.040 | - I always assumed if there was a headline

00:31:20.160 | that somehow found a way to combine Elon Musk

00:31:22.440 | and Taylor Lorenz, just like the pits of hell

00:31:25.120 | would actually open, like that was the code in the lock

00:31:28.560 | where you had to put all those letters together.

00:31:30.400 | And then suddenly you just heard like a cackle

00:31:32.920 | in the distance, bells start to ring.

00:31:35.800 | And you're like, this is it.

00:31:36.840 | - Birds fly by overhead and Amy Grant emerges

00:31:41.000 | from the ground.

00:31:41.840 | Yeah.

00:31:42.680 | - Yeah.

00:31:43.520 | - Salt Bay ascends to his throne.

00:31:45.560 | (laughing)

00:31:46.800 | He's sort of an anti-crash type figure.

00:31:49.000 | So they've done it.

00:31:50.960 | You've done it New York Post.

00:31:52.040 | You got doxing, Musk and Taylor Lorenz all in the same.

00:31:56.280 | Can I just say before-

00:31:57.120 | - Good work you pack of assholes.

00:31:58.840 | - Before we get into this, let me just say

00:32:00.240 | this page also features why I think the internet

00:32:02.960 | is an urgent necessity.

00:32:04.640 | Look to the trending now second article.

00:32:06.720 | I'm gonna read this headline.

00:32:07.920 | - Okay.

00:32:08.760 | - Man with World War I explosive lodged in his rectum

00:32:14.680 | sparks a bomb scare, hospital evacuated,

00:32:18.520 | including a picture of a glove doctor's hand

00:32:20.840 | holding a very large piece of ordinance.

00:32:24.560 | I'm just, that's what we need the internet for.

00:32:29.280 | That's what we need the internet for.

00:32:31.400 | - We're doing it.

00:32:32.240 | - There it is.

00:32:33.080 | - Cal can you, it's weird.

00:32:37.800 | I know I've been outraged by Taylor Lorenz stories before,

00:32:41.480 | but I feel like they've all just become

00:32:43.600 | this sort of like gobbledy goop amalgamation

00:32:46.880 | like in my head of this just like internet monster lady

00:32:50.280 | that when someone goes, who's Taylor Lorenz?

00:32:52.600 | I just go, ah, she's that, you know, the awful,

00:32:57.000 | the reason I'm not liberal anymore.

00:32:58.480 | She's like one of those.

00:32:59.840 | But I don't remember, I remember like,

00:33:02.800 | I think one of the most recent ones wasn't even political,

00:33:05.760 | but she like posted a tweet about how like

00:33:07.720 | she keeps her thermostat up to like 90 degrees every day

00:33:11.120 | or some shit and everyone was like, you're a lizard.

00:33:13.240 | And then that was like two days of the internet.

00:33:16.200 | I think she tried to get someone at her work fired

00:33:19.200 | for being problematic.

00:33:20.160 | I don't know, but I think she's just been like

00:33:22.720 | a problem for years.

00:33:25.040 | And, but I, can you define for people who don't know?

00:33:29.240 | Taylor Lorenz, by the way,

00:33:30.200 | that's a better example than Glenn Greenwald.

00:33:32.440 | That's the example of like,

00:33:33.800 | if you are on social media too much,

00:33:37.240 | you know who Taylor Lorenz is.

00:33:39.080 | - Right.

00:33:39.920 | - She's just a writer.

00:33:40.760 | - Right, so it's a name that either,

00:33:41.600 | like for some people, basically the right,

00:33:44.520 | and also some, I think of the like,

00:33:46.720 | whatever you call it,

00:33:48.840 | like the alt middle sort of new centrist,

00:33:51.400 | intellectual dark web crowd as well.

00:33:53.080 | The sort of like slightly left or slightly right of center,

00:33:55.600 | but are annoyed at elite culture.

00:33:58.560 | For them, yeah, she is a lizard person.

00:34:01.280 | All right, so I can kind of explain it

00:34:02.520 | because technically we have sort of the same job.

00:34:05.240 | Like we're, Taylor and I both exist

00:34:08.480 | within the larger world of journalists

00:34:11.440 | who write about technology.

00:34:12.560 | So she writes about it.

00:34:14.080 | - Oh, I didn't even know she was a tech reporter.

00:34:16.080 | - She's a tech reporter, yeah.

00:34:17.240 | So she writes about it for the Washington Post.

00:34:19.880 | I think I have that right.

00:34:20.720 | Sort of like I write about it for the New Yorker.

00:34:22.320 | There's like a-

00:34:23.160 | - I've never heard one story about her involving that.

00:34:25.520 | - That is interesting.

00:34:26.360 | So you didn't even know that.

00:34:27.200 | So you know, like she's a hated figure from some people.

00:34:29.960 | - I've seen every story.

00:34:31.200 | I'm pretty sure like Tim Pool took out like a billboard,

00:34:33.840 | making fun of her like a couple of years ago.

00:34:36.160 | - And you have no idea what she actually did

00:34:38.120 | for a living.

00:34:38.960 | - Never seen her and the word tech in the same room.

00:34:42.080 | - Interesting.

00:34:42.920 | - Fascinating. - Interesting.

00:34:43.760 | Okay, so here's the deal with Taylor Laurent.

00:34:45.320 | So in the world of tech reporting,

00:34:47.520 | she is of this, there's a group of reporters

00:34:51.160 | who sort of emerged in the last five years

00:34:52.640 | that focus a lot on internet culture, right?

00:34:55.560 | And the, it's a, the school of thought from these writers

00:34:59.640 | is it's so of the moment and complicated

00:35:03.800 | that you have to yourself be immersed in internet culture.

00:35:06.680 | Like you are a figure of internet culture.

00:35:08.960 | You're in it, you're up to your eyeballs in it,

00:35:10.840 | and then you report on it.

00:35:12.200 | And so the reporting has more of a like timely,

00:35:16.120 | but also more of a subjective type bent to it,

00:35:19.320 | more of a conversational type into it.

00:35:20.800 | So it's very different than, you know,

00:35:23.040 | like an old Walt Mossberg, Wall Street Journal article

00:35:26.440 | on the Apple II, where it's, you know,

00:35:29.160 | let's talk about this new company

00:35:30.600 | and it's grown to this size and here's the new features.

00:35:33.140 | It's like, I'm in this world.

00:35:34.680 | And the idea is, and there's a couple other reporters

00:35:37.280 | in the same vein, all of them have become,

00:35:39.760 | it's all, it's very, it's a controversial way to do it.

00:35:42.280 | You attract controversy because you throw yourself

00:35:45.000 | into internet culture so that you can better report on it.

00:35:48.400 | So I think that's part of what's going on.

00:35:50.720 | So she's a reporter and so she's really involved

00:35:54.280 | in internet culture and has built up her own brand.

00:35:56.560 | - Is she like an agent provocateur, essentially?

00:36:00.580 | Like throws herself into it, does some dumb shit,

00:36:03.840 | internet attacks her, and then she gets to go

00:36:06.160 | as someone who's immersed in this, you know what I mean?

00:36:09.680 | - Yeah, I think, and I don't know her reporting super well,

00:36:12.440 | though I am a post subscriber.

00:36:13.600 | I mean, I think the issue is she's involved.

00:36:16.880 | So like the whole way this particular sub niche

00:36:19.560 | of tech reporting works is you get involved in it.

00:36:21.760 | Like you're like talking to people online,

00:36:24.640 | you're on Twitter, you're on these different platforms,

00:36:26.820 | you're going back and forth.

00:36:27.660 | So she's kind of involved in internet memes and causes

00:36:31.100 | and things that are happening and writing about it.

00:36:33.440 | And I think it's the collision of the two

00:36:35.160 | that creates all of the controversial heat around her.

00:36:38.540 | So it's not someone just saying from a distance,

00:36:40.700 | for example, you know, this is going on,

00:36:44.220 | she'll sort of get involved in the fight.

00:36:47.500 | So I think that the right, and then the sort of centrist,

00:36:49.840 | right of center crowd doesn't like her

00:36:51.200 | because I think she has like a standard sort of East Coast,

00:36:55.240 | you know, educated coastal city sort of perspective

00:36:59.420 | on these types of issues.

00:37:00.340 | Like her perspective, standard-

00:37:02.160 | - Yeah, she's trying to get people fired.

00:37:04.120 | She's like, well, she'll like post pictures of people,

00:37:07.240 | like not wearing masks, like still on the airplane.

00:37:10.480 | And she's like, I'm the only one with a mask.

00:37:11.880 | Like just like that type of thing.

00:37:13.680 | - Yeah, so I think it's this collision of like, okay,

00:37:15.560 | we all have, we all, this is like every like 38 year old

00:37:19.240 | we know who lives in Manhattan,

00:37:20.680 | but she also writes for these big papers.

00:37:23.120 | And so it's like this kind of melding,

00:37:25.720 | those two worlds kind of meld together.

00:37:27.280 | It's more personalized.

00:37:30.720 | It comes across sort of like more subjective.

00:37:32.920 | And so I think that, so it's like someone on Twitter

00:37:35.720 | who also has a column.

00:37:36.940 | So I think that's kind of going on,

00:37:39.120 | but also I think it's just the case that if you,

00:37:41.680 | once you become like a fully 3D person online

00:37:44.840 | and some sort of figure, some sort of figure of power,

00:37:48.160 | like you're a writer or something,

00:37:49.440 | it really brings in like a lot more hate.

00:37:51.480 | Also like, you know, not to go left wing on it,

00:37:56.080 | but people don't like women online.

00:38:01.080 | You know what I mean?

00:38:01.920 | Like it's, if you're, there's a lot of that going on.

00:38:04.760 | So it's a whole messy thing.

00:38:05.760 | So that, but yeah, so basically I think she's

00:38:07.480 | on the standard left-wing side, a lot of issues.

00:38:09.660 | She's involved in an online, she's tweeting about it.

00:38:11.640 | She gets involved in controversies.

00:38:14.120 | I don't know this story well.

00:38:15.400 | I am assuming that Doxine is referring to the fact

00:38:18.000 | that she went hard against libs of TikTok

00:38:21.360 | and supposedly, I think she put not on Twitter.

00:38:24.160 | - She named it.

00:38:25.000 | - The address, yeah, she named the name

00:38:26.520 | and gave the address of the founder.

00:38:28.560 | I've also, I was trying to look at this a little more.

00:38:30.000 | I think there's something about like, she does a lot of,

00:38:33.500 | she'll really push hard to cancel people.

00:38:35.400 | And then when people push back, we'll say like,

00:38:37.360 | why is everyone being mean to me?

00:38:39.400 | And like, this is harassment.

00:38:40.960 | - She's complained so much about harassment.

00:38:42.840 | I remember the libs of TikTok one.

00:38:44.440 | She complained so much about harassment.

00:38:46.540 | And then yeah, straight up was just like,

00:38:48.440 | here's who this person is.

00:38:49.600 | And it's like trying to reach members of, you know,

00:38:52.520 | libs of TikToks like family to like, you know, whatever.

00:38:55.880 | And then, but she says, you know,

00:38:57.560 | that's part of being a journalist and blah, blah, blah.

00:39:00.440 | And it's just,

00:39:01.480 | it's just at the center of all the wrong things, man.

00:39:05.720 | - First of all, I think it's the most stressful,

00:39:07.920 | like the most stressful job you could have in the world

00:39:09.680 | would be like Taylor Lawrence

00:39:10.800 | or to be like Matt Walsh or Ben Shapiro.

00:39:12.760 | Like if you constantly have to be like litigating

00:39:16.200 | online cultural battles with tweets and this and that,

00:39:18.640 | like how stressful, but your career depends on you

00:39:21.020 | constantly being visible.

00:39:22.600 | A, I just have empathy for all of them

00:39:24.200 | because that sounds incredibly stressful.

00:39:26.640 | B, I think as an outside observer,

00:39:28.760 | it's actually kind of an interesting thing to have a few,

00:39:32.200 | it's a train wreck for them and it's messy,

00:39:35.060 | but to have some people that are like completely

00:39:37.480 | caught up in internet culture,

00:39:38.800 | writing about internet culture as internet culture

00:39:41.240 | strangles and drowns them.

00:39:42.520 | It's like actually like a kind of interesting

00:39:44.800 | from a performance art way of actually capturing

00:39:46.800 | the reality of this crazy whirlwind that is internet culture.

00:39:49.840 | - Dude, I meet a lot of celebrities who are just like,

00:39:52.460 | they're like, I love it.

00:39:53.980 | I love going at people and like, I don't give a shit.

00:39:56.580 | And like, I just think me and you don't have that

00:39:59.060 | because even when I was doing it,

00:40:01.940 | I was who you're talking about.

00:40:03.780 | I was miserable.

00:40:04.820 | I was having panic attack on panic attack.

00:40:07.140 | I was like, couldn't put my phone down,

00:40:09.320 | but like there are some people,

00:40:11.300 | and I don't know if it's just,

00:40:12.440 | they have this fucking American psycho part of their brain

00:40:15.100 | where they can turn it off

00:40:16.140 | or maybe they're just more mature than me,

00:40:17.940 | but they can just go to war all day,

00:40:19.540 | like playing fucking Call of Duty, but it's real life.

00:40:21.920 | And then be like, all right, peace and go.

00:40:24.800 | But I remember dude, I got into a fight.

00:40:27.900 | I got into a fight once with Josh Marshall

00:40:31.500 | from Talking Points Memo.

00:40:33.900 | And I even took a screenshot

00:40:35.380 | 'cause he said the exact quote he said to me,

00:40:37.980 | I forget what bullshit I said was,

00:40:39.380 | "Fuck you freedom fighter."

00:40:40.620 | And I was like, ha ha ha.

00:40:42.020 | But like later he tweeted,

00:40:44.900 | I'm like, I was ignoring my partner, right?

00:40:48.000 | While fighting with this guy.

00:40:49.340 | And then later he tweeted like,

00:40:50.780 | all right, I'm going back to the beach with my kids.

00:40:52.540 | And I'm like, were you fighting with me

00:40:54.140 | while you were at the beach with your children?

00:40:56.780 | And I think that's where me and him, right?

00:40:59.420 | Like I was in a fucking failing relationship.

00:41:01.820 | That's where you have to kind of check yourself

00:41:03.700 | and be like, all right, now it is pathological, it is bad.

00:41:07.740 | You have to get your affairs in order.

00:41:09.400 | - Well, that's where I have,

00:41:10.540 | see my issue is I have a very hard time

00:41:12.980 | sustaining madness at people.

00:41:16.340 | I like people, maybe it's 'cause I don't use the internet.

00:41:18.680 | I knew that would change, but I like people.

00:41:21.420 | I can see, I have a very easy time imagining

00:41:25.500 | the sort of goodwill, just lurking behind people,

00:41:27.780 | getting past what they say.

00:41:29.220 | I have-

00:41:30.060 | - A more frat boy way to put that is like,

00:41:32.260 | I'm rooting for a good time.

00:41:34.380 | - Yeah, and I like people, like people are interesting.

00:41:37.100 | I don't know, people are interesting.

00:41:38.540 | I think most people are interesting.

00:41:39.380 | I think, you know, yeah, I like people.

00:41:42.300 | I've heard I'm getting mad.

00:41:43.300 | I look at Taylor Renz and I'm thinking,

00:41:45.620 | it might've been bad for their career,

00:41:46.940 | but man, if Elon had done a permanent ban

00:41:50.800 | of her from Twitter, from a mental,

00:41:53.440 | like she would probably look back at that 10 years from now

00:41:55.200 | from a mental health perspective

00:41:56.400 | and been like, "This is the best thing that ever happened."

00:41:57.960 | Like she was free.

00:41:59.200 | - I give it-

00:42:00.040 | - She was free, it must be a terror for someone like that.

00:42:02.880 | - I would give it three days before Taylor Renz

00:42:05.040 | was like doing ayahuasca in Peru and like finds God.

00:42:09.800 | - Universe's love, yeah.

00:42:11.200 | - Sets her thermostat to a normal person temperature,

00:42:14.480 | and which is like, "What have I been doing with my life?"

00:42:16.240 | Like literally like you come out of a fucking coma.

00:42:18.980 | The days that I, and by the way,

00:42:21.860 | I wanna ask you advice at some point or now.

00:42:24.660 | I take Instagram off my,

00:42:26.260 | Twitter just doesn't exist on my phone,

00:42:27.700 | only on my desktop, like you said.

00:42:29.260 | Instagram I have to post,

00:42:30.420 | so I've been doing what you told me,

00:42:31.980 | and I take it off my phone on the weekends.

00:42:34.760 | But when I was with Tim Kennedy at the range

00:42:39.520 | doing all these courses,

00:42:40.660 | and this weekend was the first time

00:42:42.100 | I actually had my phone completely off, much different.

00:42:46.280 | Because even when my phone is on,

00:42:48.680 | I catch myself going down, "I" for Instagram,

00:42:51.960 | and then being like, "Oh, it's not there."

00:42:54.240 | Or even suddenly if a giant weight comes up,

00:42:57.560 | if I suddenly have to go to the mechanic or something,

00:43:00.040 | I'm like, "Oh, I can just re-download the app,

00:43:02.520 | and then it sends me a code, and then I can get back on it."

00:43:05.280 | Whereas when my phone was just completely off or away,

00:43:09.040 | that's when you have that ayahuasca in Peru,

00:43:11.840 | and I'm free.

00:43:12.980 | - Yeah, like all the time.

00:43:14.860 | Look, I'm a big fan of that.

00:43:16.580 | Yeah. - Yeah.

00:43:17.420 | - Yeah.

00:43:18.340 | Don't bring it to the range,

00:43:19.380 | don't bring it to the mechanic,

00:43:20.540 | or have the burner phone.

00:43:21.980 | - Don't bring it on a date.

00:43:23.780 | - Don't bring it on a date, yeah.

00:43:24.980 | Yeah, for God's sakes, don't.

00:43:25.820 | Yeah, don't. - Yeah, or with your kid.

00:43:27.340 | - Let me ask you a quick follow-up question on that though.

00:43:29.180 | - Yeah.

00:43:30.700 | - Is Instagram like Twitter, or is it different?

00:43:34.300 | - It's so different.

00:43:35.380 | There's different negative aspects to it.

00:43:40.180 | So for me, I like it more because for the most part,

00:43:43.360 | it's people sharing positive things,

00:43:45.440 | and it doesn't move as fast as TikTok.

00:43:47.800 | Like TikTok, I was on for two minutes,

00:43:50.240 | and it was like the first time someone,

00:43:52.600 | maybe the only time someone offered me cocaine

00:43:55.040 | in like a shady bathroom, and he was a shady guy,

00:43:58.020 | and you just immediately go,

00:44:00.040 | "I don't wanna be a part of this,

00:44:01.320 | and I'm just not gonna, my life is not gonna involve cocaine."

00:44:04.280 | That's how I felt with TikTok.

00:44:05.840 | It was my friend, Kendall Rusing,

00:44:08.160 | who's this awesome jujitsu world champion,

00:44:10.000 | she just did my podcast, I just did her podcast,

00:44:12.060 | and she was like, "Look," and it was just like,

00:44:13.780 | "New video, new video, new video, new video,"

00:44:15.300 | and I was just like, "How do you do this?"

00:44:18.180 | And she's such an emotionally intelligent, rad person,

00:44:21.500 | and it was her and her sister,

00:44:24.540 | and they were trying to explain TikTok to me,

00:44:26.060 | and it was that cocaine thing,

00:44:27.980 | where I was like, "It will ruin me.

00:44:30.580 | You will find me in a gutter with my phone on top of me,

00:44:33.740 | and some fucking Asian-Korean dance team, whatever."

00:44:39.300 | But Instagram, at first, I'll say when I go on podcasts,

00:44:44.300 | you know, I'm more popular on Twitter,

00:44:46.280 | but follow me on Instagram, it's where I'm happier,

00:44:48.080 | 'cause it is, it's a lot of self-help memes,

00:44:51.000 | and a video of a puppy doing a dance, or whatever.

00:44:55.420 | I only follow fighters, spiritual people,

00:45:00.000 | people who I can learn from,

00:45:01.440 | you can get instructionals and tutorials.

00:45:03.620 | Where it does get bad is just all social media,

00:45:06.900 | except maybe not Twitter.

00:45:08.120 | Actually, this might just be Instagram-specific.

00:45:10.300 | People are posting their highlight reel, right?

00:45:13.040 | It's like me going on a date,

00:45:14.580 | and just being like, "Oh, I played the Sydney Opera House,

00:45:17.940 | I did this, I did that."

00:45:19.340 | And she's like, "Aren't you divorced, though?"

00:45:21.180 | And I'm like, "We don't need to talk about that.

00:45:22.800 | Here's a picture of me at the opera house."

00:45:25.460 | So it's just your hits, so it will make other people,

00:45:29.180 | and I'm saying this as a 40-year-old dude,

00:45:31.060 | let alone if you're a kid, you look at other people.

00:45:33.980 | That's why I post mostly mental health stuff,

00:45:36.140 | like, "Hey, man, today was really hard for me.

00:45:37.900 | I was really depressed.

00:45:39.200 | I'm going through this.

00:45:40.100 | You're not alone, blah, blah, blah."

00:45:41.840 | Because for the most part,

00:45:43.960 | remember, I don't follow any negative accounts.

00:45:46.040 | There are still, there are angry political accounts on there.

00:45:48.540 | There are still whatever.

00:45:50.420 | But even with that, following just positive people,

00:45:54.660 | I'll look at my pastor posting a Christmas picture

00:45:57.720 | with his kids and his wife, and be like,

00:45:59.860 | "I'll never have that."

00:46:00.780 | You know what I mean?

00:46:01.660 | You still have that forced comparison,

00:46:04.520 | which you have to be very careful about.

00:46:05.860 | - So it's different poison.

00:46:06.740 | So like Twitter, you spend all day on Twitter.

00:46:09.820 | You're convinced that we're like 12 hours away

00:46:12.560 | from Nazis forcing your kids to gay marry drag queens.

00:46:16.740 | - Right. (laughs)

00:46:18.380 | - And you go on Instagram,

00:46:20.100 | and you're convinced that like everyone got in

00:46:23.180 | one last workout at the gym before their Caribbean vacation.

00:46:27.540 | - And you're so alone,

00:46:28.700 | you're gonna be forced to marry a Nazi drag queen

00:46:31.560 | because no one else wants you,

00:46:32.860 | and you'll never have the beautiful family

00:46:34.580 | that all your friends have.

00:46:35.420 | Like, I guess it's okay the Nazis

00:46:36.940 | are gonna force me to do this

00:46:37.820 | because I'm alone in the world.

00:46:39.580 | And yeah, and look at how happy.

00:46:41.460 | Interesting.

00:46:42.300 | Okay, so different.

00:46:43.120 | And then you're saying TikTok is just-

00:46:44.340 | - And you also do get addicted to scrolling

00:46:46.300 | because there's also like, all of my fighters,

00:46:49.460 | yeah, man, they're posting like Musashi quotes,

00:46:52.420 | and they're posting get to the gym or whatever.

00:46:54.320 | But if you're just scrolling and half reading them,

00:46:57.040 | as opposed to you're reading "The Book of Five Rings"

00:46:59.500 | by Musashi, or you're watching a documentary,

00:47:02.020 | or you're immersing yourself in something,

00:47:04.300 | you're kind of just getting, you know,

00:47:07.420 | half digested, repurposed,

00:47:11.980 | - Yeah. - Brown quote.

00:47:13.260 | You know what I'm saying?

00:47:14.100 | - Yeah.

00:47:15.460 | - And so, yeah, so that's hard too,

00:47:17.880 | because you feel like you're doing positive things,

00:47:20.660 | but you're not retaining any of it.

00:47:22.520 | So you're under the illusion like, well, I just,

00:47:25.060 | before you know it,

00:47:25.900 | you spend an hour scrolling through self-help memes,

00:47:29.740 | when what you should have done was take a walk

00:47:31.140 | or go to the gym or call a friend.

00:47:33.780 | - Yeah, you know, I once, a Brene Brown story,

00:47:35.940 | I once spent some time in the green room

00:47:40.940 | at Lincoln Center backstage, just me and Brene Brown,

00:47:44.380 | we were both speaking at the same event,

00:47:46.100 | and we spent some time together.

00:47:49.260 | That's my Brene Brown story.

00:47:50.500 | - I would have gotten jealous

00:47:51.340 | if you posted that picture on Instagram.

00:47:53.180 | - Brene Brown story number, oh, and this event, by the way,

00:47:55.860 | this was back when they used to have all these conferences

00:47:57.460 | that were sort of vaguely based on blogs.

00:47:59.100 | And so I just remember the surly teensters

00:48:02.700 | who were back in the backstage

00:48:04.580 | that were just like bemused and confused,

00:48:07.060 | like what the hell is going on?

00:48:08.660 | Like, who are these kids?

00:48:10.020 | - Not interested about Brene Brown

00:48:11.700 | telling them to like discover their shame.

00:48:13.540 | - This is my other, and this is gonna make me seem

00:48:15.540 | like a completely out of touch, you know,

00:48:17.700 | patriarchal whatever.

00:48:19.420 | But then we used to run in a lot of the same circles

00:48:22.100 | 'cause I used to give a lot more talks

00:48:23.300 | at these conferences.

00:48:24.140 | First time I saw Brene Brown,

00:48:25.300 | this would have been like, I don't know when this was,

00:48:27.220 | 11, 2011, 2012.

00:48:29.140 | We're again, speaking at the same event.

00:48:31.340 | And I was there with a couple of friends.

00:48:32.780 | I won't say their names, they're well-known.

00:48:34.860 | And she came up and gave her talk

00:48:38.420 | and the crowd was literally dancing.

00:48:40.860 | Like she had them up there dancing.

00:48:42.940 | And just the energy was off the charts.

00:48:45.580 | Like, clearly this is a star, right?

00:48:47.260 | Like she was gonna be a star.

00:48:48.220 | And I remember turning to my friend, another guy,

00:48:50.540 | and saying, "I literally don't understand

00:48:53.100 | "a single thing she just said."

00:48:55.380 | Like, I cannot tell you what this talk was just about.

00:48:58.540 | And she had the entire audience down.

00:49:00.620 | I guess it just shows, right?

00:49:01.820 | Everyone has their own love language.

00:49:03.220 | So that was my first experience with Brene Brown

00:49:05.100 | was she was clearly on her way to being a superstar.

00:49:07.540 | And as a like 27 year old dude,

00:49:10.460 | I did not understand what she was talking about.

00:49:13.740 | - I've had so many moments like that

00:49:15.980 | where I'd be watching some new comic

00:49:18.180 | and I'm like, this is terrible.

00:49:21.460 | Pause, they're gonna be a star.

00:49:24.260 | - Oh, you could just tell.

00:49:25.100 | I could just tell.

00:49:25.940 | I was like, she's gonna be huge.

00:49:27.740 | I mean, yeah.

00:49:28.860 | Okay.

00:49:29.700 | All right, we got one more story here.

00:49:32.060 | Let's see here.

00:49:32.900 | - Let's put it on a high note.

00:49:33.740 | - Yeah, before we bring in our other guest host,

00:49:35.980 | Brene Brown, come on.

00:49:37.580 | Come on in.

00:49:39.900 | Here we go.

00:49:40.740 | All right, from Kiss the band.

00:49:43.100 | A tweet.

00:49:44.540 | Happy 77th birthday, Peter Chris.

00:49:48.020 | We hope your special day rocks.

00:49:49.380 | Enjoy.

00:49:50.220 | It's good news, happy Twitter.

00:49:52.020 | - It's good news.

00:49:52.860 | Happy Twitter.

00:49:53.980 | You have to dig so hard

00:49:56.420 | that it has to be just the corporate intern of the band.

00:50:01.420 | Unproblematically, there's no take.

00:50:06.300 | It's just this man is 77.

00:50:08.420 | - Yeah, looks great.

00:50:09.260 | - Remember him from the band Kiss.

00:50:11.460 | I hope you have a special day.

00:50:13.500 | And that's it.

00:50:15.100 | Did I click it?

00:50:16.020 | Because I thought Peter Chris

00:50:18.100 | was killed in like a murder suicide.

00:50:20.100 | Of course I did.

00:50:21.140 | Of course I did.

00:50:22.300 | But it made me, you know, when I see,

00:50:25.780 | I don't know the last time I've listened to Kiss,

00:50:28.020 | but Cal and I grew up listening to guitar rock.

00:50:33.020 | There was a kid named Ben.

00:50:35.260 | There was a kid named Ben in our class.

00:50:37.300 | Kind of bigger.

00:50:38.260 | Do you remember who that was?

00:50:39.580 | - Ben.

00:50:40.420 | All right, keep going.

00:50:41.260 | Let's see if I remember.

00:50:42.100 | - Well, I just never hung out with him ever.

00:50:43.740 | And just one day he goes,

00:50:45.100 | "I have an extra ticket to see Kiss.

00:50:47.620 | Do you want to go?"

00:50:49.820 | Ben like Goldsmith or something.

00:50:51.740 | - Yes, that sounds familiar.

00:50:53.220 | - Yeah.

00:50:54.140 | Someone that Will Shorts would not have liked.

00:50:56.420 | - Not sufficiently, yeah, exactly.

00:51:00.620 | I get you.

00:51:01.460 | Oh, there we go.

00:51:02.300 | I get you.

00:51:03.140 | I get you.

00:51:03.980 | - And we went to see Kiss, I think with Ben's dad.

00:51:06.860 | 'Cause again, in high school,

00:51:08.380 | you were going to see,

00:51:09.420 | I saw Dave Matthews Band with John Evans' dad.

00:51:11.940 | I saw Santana with my dad.

00:51:14.180 | - Nice John Evans poll.

00:51:15.340 | That's a good Pennington poll.

00:51:17.740 | My first friend,

00:51:18.900 | my first friend moving to Pennington, New Jersey.

00:51:21.460 | - Stop it.

00:51:22.300 | - Jonathan Evans.

00:51:23.140 | Jonathan Evans lived behind me.

00:51:25.180 | - But before he moved,

00:51:27.460 | he lived down the street,

00:51:29.140 | two houses down from where we,

00:51:31.380 | there we go.

00:51:32.220 | So first of all,

00:51:33.060 | fascinating for our audience.

00:51:34.740 | I think everyone is loving this.

00:51:37.060 | - He was the manager of our high school band,

00:51:40.140 | which just meant,

00:51:41.020 | guys, if you were ever in a high school band

00:51:42.620 | and you had a manager,

00:51:43.460 | it was just the kid who you couldn't tell not to come

00:51:46.420 | and he doesn't play an instrument.

00:51:47.700 | And so he would just sit there

00:51:49.340 | and like one day have dreams of,

00:51:51.300 | you know,

00:51:52.140 | making money from us in a Paul Giamatti,

00:51:54.460 | NWA type fashion.

00:51:56.100 | - Well, and not to go on a tangent here,

00:51:57.740 | but we've talked about this before you and I,

00:51:59.700 | I don't know if we've talked on the air before,

00:52:00.780 | but this is the key with high school rock bands.

00:52:03.860 | It's the aura,

00:52:06.340 | the aura you put off.

00:52:07.620 | So the fact that he wanted to be a manager for your band

00:52:10.780 | is because your band was cool.

00:52:13.340 | - Yep.

00:52:14.180 | - Right?

00:52:15.020 | What was it?

00:52:15.860 | Yeah.

00:52:16.700 | What's it called?

00:52:17.540 | Progressions or something?

00:52:18.380 | Am I thinking about the right band?

00:52:19.220 | - Oh, you are not.

00:52:20.060 | It was a Simpsons reference,

00:52:20.940 | which will make you very happy.

00:52:23.020 | Pray for Mojo.

00:52:24.420 | - Okay.

00:52:25.260 | It was Pray for Mojo.

00:52:26.100 | Okay.

00:52:27.380 | - Homer gets a helper monkey

00:52:28.580 | and Homer starts getting the helper monkey drunk and stuff.

00:52:30.820 | And the helper monkey's handler finally comes back

00:52:32.900 | to get Mojo and Mojo could only type into a thing.

00:52:36.260 | And he just wrote,

00:52:37.100 | "Pray for Mojo."

00:52:38.460 | And that was it.

00:52:39.380 | - Whereas my band in high school,

00:52:42.560 | we were technically proficient.

00:52:44.900 | - Yes.

00:52:45.740 | - We wrote our own songs.

00:52:46.620 | We were good at our instruments.

00:52:48.340 | Right?

00:52:49.780 | But I went to Dartmouth.

00:52:52.260 | Our lead singer went to Stanford.

00:52:55.220 | Our drummer went to NYU.

00:52:57.380 | Right?

00:52:58.220 | - We were the Brene Brown of the high school bands.

00:53:01.940 | - Yes.

00:53:02.780 | And I was the, yeah,

00:53:04.460 | the Cal Newport of high school bands

00:53:06.140 | giving a speech about whatever.

00:53:07.700 | And so we couldn't,

00:53:08.900 | and so we just did not have the right aura.

00:53:11.980 | So we actually wrote,

00:53:12.820 | "I gotta find this tape."

00:53:13.820 | So it was down at the beach.

00:53:15.020 | This was a high school student with our drummer

00:53:16.960 | and our lead singer, Chris and Mike.

00:53:18.780 | And we had our four track recorder with us.

00:53:20.460 | And we recorded this.

00:53:21.380 | I've told you about this,

00:53:22.220 | it's an awesome song.

00:53:23.060 | It was a song called "Our Bands Unpopular."

00:53:25.620 | - I'm so nervous.

00:53:27.140 | - No, it was a great song.

00:53:28.620 | We wrote a song about our band

00:53:30.020 | called "Our Bands Unpopular."

00:53:32.660 | We were good.

00:53:33.500 | And by evidence is,

00:53:34.320 | every time we would play at our school

00:53:35.740 | at a battle of the bands,

00:53:36.580 | we would lose no matter what.

00:53:38.180 | We, as soon as we left

00:53:40.180 | and went to the Princeton FET,

00:53:41.540 | like an open to all bands,

00:53:42.900 | battle of the bands, we won.

00:53:44.100 | It's like we had the chops,

00:53:45.560 | but if you knew who we were,

00:53:47.380 | if you knew who we were,

00:53:48.660 | there you go.

00:53:49.500 | - That's so sad and funny.

00:53:50.860 | - It's sad, it's funny.

00:53:51.820 | It's of great interest to the audience.

00:53:52.900 | But I'm looking at these replies to the tweets

00:53:55.420 | and it's all nice.

00:53:57.780 | - It's all happy birthday.

00:53:58.940 | - Yeah.

00:53:59.780 | - There's no,

00:54:00.620 | "Hey, happy birthday, Peter, Chris.

00:54:02.020 | Gene Simmons is a rapist."

00:54:03.580 | It's like, I mean, probably,

00:54:05.100 | but like, that's not what we're talking about.

00:54:06.780 | - That's not what we're talking about here.

00:54:08.180 | Here we go,

00:54:09.020 | "Master, the only cat mat ever.

00:54:10.300 | Congratulations."

00:54:12.060 | - Looking good.

00:54:12.900 | - "The guy looks fantastic.

00:54:13.860 | Playing the drums is the best workout you can get."

00:54:16.140 | - Hell yeah, dude.

00:54:17.340 | - Yeah.

00:54:18.460 | - The best workout you can get,

00:54:19.300 | well, it's kind of weird,

00:54:20.140 | but that's fine.

00:54:20.980 | - It's weird.

00:54:21.820 | - That was a drummer who just got dumped

00:54:24.580 | because he spends too much time at practice

00:54:26.340 | and he's just like,

00:54:27.180 | "Ugh, she saw this.

00:54:29.540 | She knows I'm jacking again."

00:54:31.060 | - Yeah, man, I was gonna get my biceps,

00:54:33.420 | my trapezoids.

00:54:34.260 | My trapezoids.

00:54:35.100 | All right, this makes me feel good.

00:54:35.940 | - I've seen a lot of potbelly drummers, you guys.

00:54:38.620 | - So now I'm kind of really scrolling here.

00:54:40.260 | Now I'm kind of curious if there's a-

00:54:41.980 | - Are you digging for the first bad one?

00:54:43.180 | - I kind of am digging for the...

00:54:44.940 | Here's, okay.

00:54:47.860 | - By the way-

00:54:48.700 | - Is this a secret bad one?

00:54:49.540 | Happy birthday, Peter.

00:54:50.460 | Mine is January 6th, soon to be 58.

00:54:53.460 | See, maybe that's a little bit of a subtle-

00:54:55.180 | - January 6th was like a code.

00:54:56.580 | Yeah, maybe.

00:54:57.420 | I also feel like if you're looking to say something bad

00:55:02.300 | or cancel a band from that era, it's not hard.

00:55:05.860 | Like they all probably did terrible things

00:55:08.380 | to underage people.

00:55:09.460 | You know what I mean?

00:55:10.300 | - Yeah.

00:55:11.140 | - And so the fact that it wasn't in the first like 50

00:55:13.260 | that you scrolled, looking good.

00:55:15.020 | - Yeah, so that's happy Twitter.

00:55:16.580 | That's like 2006 Twitter.

00:55:20.180 | It's like, I'm not really sure what we're doing on here.

00:55:21.860 | It's kind of a party.

00:55:22.700 | Like not that many people are here yet.

00:55:24.460 | Kiss is fun.

00:55:25.660 | Yeah, this guy is fun.

00:55:26.940 | Hey, happy birthday.

00:55:27.780 | Look, here's what I ate today.

00:55:28.620 | That's great.

00:55:29.460 | You know, this is, yeah, this is good, right?

00:55:31.140 | You know?

00:55:31.980 | It's like, look, I made my crossword puzzle

00:55:33.780 | look like a swastika.

00:55:35.020 | That wasn't easy.

00:55:35.860 | I had to align it and be like, it's great.

00:55:37.460 | You know, you're like good.

00:55:38.300 | That's difficult, you know?

00:55:39.700 | - A lot of alignment involved.

00:55:41.500 | So guys, I hope you know, when you listen to this show,

00:55:43.820 | we will always try to bring you at least one or two,

00:55:46.700 | also happy ones.

00:55:47.940 | You're gonna hear the happy one.

00:55:49.260 | And at first you're gonna be very suspect,

00:55:51.180 | a little bit of Stockholm syndrome,

00:55:52.460 | not really know what's going on,

00:55:53.700 | wondering if you're walking into a trap.

00:55:55.340 | Sometimes it's just the guy from Kiss's fucking birthday.

00:55:57.260 | - Yeah, or a guy has a piece of ordinance in his record.

00:56:01.260 | - I mean, we still made it about simple stuff,

00:56:02.820 | simple house ad band, but you know.

00:56:04.620 | - Yeah.

00:56:06.500 | All right, well, we should wrap it up then.

00:56:09.060 | So Jamie, tell us about the podcast or where we,

00:56:11.660 | your podcast or where people can find you.

00:56:14.260 | - You guys, I host a mental health comedy podcast

00:56:16.380 | called Advice Not Taken.

00:56:18.940 | We're actually doing video now.

00:56:20.380 | So since you guys are on YouTube,

00:56:21.860 | it would be sweet if you went over to youtube.com/jamiekilstein

00:56:26.100 | hit subscribe.

00:56:26.940 | You can fucking mute that shit.

00:56:27.900 | I don't know.

00:56:28.740 | Just give me enough subscribers where I'm getting money.

00:56:31.300 | And then Advice Not Taken is on Spotify and iTunes.

00:56:34.580 | I'm really proud of it, especially around the holidays.

00:56:36.300 | We've been talking a lot about depression

00:56:38.420 | and mental health shit and being alone for the holidays,

00:56:41.340 | but in a way that's funny.

00:56:42.820 | And I talk about what a fucking disaster I am.

00:56:46.100 | Once again, you can follow me

00:56:48.340 | if you guys are on Instagram @thejamiekilstein.

00:56:50.940 | And that's it, Cal hit it.

00:56:54.780 | - Yeah, you can, my podcast is called Deep Questions

00:56:56.940 | with Cal Newport.

00:56:58.860 | I also play in a band called Amy Grant's Haunted Barn.

00:57:01.860 | - That's such a good name for a band.

00:57:04.460 | - Isn't that a great band name?

00:57:05.740 | That'd be awesome.

00:57:06.580 | Yeah.

00:57:07.580 | So there we go.

00:57:08.420 | All right, everyone, we'll try to be back next week

00:57:10.740 | or the week after.

00:57:11.580 | I guess it's the holidays.

00:57:12.420 | We'll have to figure that out.

00:57:13.260 | - Holidays next week.

00:57:14.100 | But guys, I gotta tell you,

00:57:15.060 | Cal and I talk off the air about,

00:57:17.620 | I mean, to be honest with you,

00:57:18.580 | this show will probably go on

00:57:20.300 | even if it doesn't get popular because it's so fun.

00:57:22.900 | But I really do believe in the show

00:57:25.780 | and I think it could be something cool.

00:57:27.100 | And it's a way for me and Cal just to decompress

00:57:29.860 | and make jokes with you guys.

00:57:31.100 | And we wanna get to the point

00:57:32.100 | where you start sending us in articles.

00:57:34.620 | Leave things in the comment section

00:57:35.980 | that you want our producer to get to us and talk about.

00:57:40.060 | It's a way that we can talk about politics

00:57:41.740 | without it taking over our lives.

00:57:44.420 | We can still kinda know what's going on.

00:57:46.260 | We can laugh from afar

00:57:47.300 | as we're trying to lead happy, healthier, deeper lives.

00:57:51.100 | So please spread the word about the show.

00:57:52.500 | Like, review, leave comments,

00:57:54.780 | all of that shit you hear on other podcasts.

00:57:57.140 | - All right, so enjoy your holiday.

00:57:58.220 | Put down your phone.

00:57:59.060 | We'll see you soon.

00:57:59.900 | (upbeat music)

00:58:02.480 | (upbeat music)

00:58:05.060 | (upbeat music)

Cal And Jamie Explain The Internet | Salt Bay, Meghan McCain, And Taylor Lorenz

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