AMA #12: Thoughts on Longevity Supplements (Resveratrol, NR, NMN, Etc.) & How to Improve Memory
Chapters
0:0 Introduction1:46 Resveratrol and Longevity Supplements
26:49 Huberman Lab Premium
00:00:00.000 | - Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast,
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00:00:05.900 | I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology
00:00:12.260 | and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
00:00:15.340 | Today is an Ask Me Anything episode or AMA.
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00:01:42.500 | So without further ado,
00:01:43.900 | let's get to answering your questions.
00:01:46.420 | The first question is about resveratrol.
00:01:49.100 | The question specifically is, and I quote,
00:01:51.900 | "There seems to be a lot of conjecture about resveratrol
00:01:55.020 | and whether or not it can extend lifespan.
00:01:57.740 | Could you please tell us your thoughts on this subject?"
00:02:00.860 | Okay, well, I will indeed tell you my thoughts
00:02:02.740 | on this subject and I'll use it as an opportunity
00:02:05.320 | to also give you my thoughts about supplementation
00:02:07.920 | for sake of longevity,
00:02:09.100 | that is for extending lifespan more generally.
00:02:12.640 | So resveratrol got a lot of attention some years back
00:02:16.360 | because of, at the time,
00:02:18.300 | it was believed that supplementing with resveratrol
00:02:21.760 | could impact certain cellular pathways
00:02:24.300 | that would extend not just the lifespan
00:02:27.140 | of those individual cells,
00:02:28.420 | but perhaps the lifespan of the entire organism,
00:02:31.640 | meaning us, humans.
00:02:33.180 | And as a consequence,
00:02:34.220 | supplements such as resveratrol supplements,
00:02:36.660 | but also grape seed extracts,
00:02:38.980 | which we know contain a fair amount of resveratrol
00:02:42.140 | or can be converted into resveratrol,
00:02:44.300 | also received a lot of attention
00:02:46.280 | for the potential to increase lifespan.
00:02:49.220 | Now, I think by now, 2023,
00:02:51.900 | it's fair to say that most of that thinking has been,
00:02:56.340 | let's just say, debunked.
00:02:58.080 | I think that most people understand
00:03:00.420 | that while indeed resveratrol
00:03:02.700 | might have some positive effects
00:03:04.420 | on the functioning of our cells,
00:03:06.020 | that there is very little, if any, direct evidence
00:03:08.820 | that resveratrol can increase lifespan.
00:03:11.700 | If you are aware of any data to the contrary
00:03:15.180 | that is modern, is highly controlled,
00:03:18.620 | and even better was carried out in human studies
00:03:22.420 | or non-human primate studies, or even mouse studies,
00:03:25.240 | please put links to those in the comments on YouTube,
00:03:28.380 | because I'd love to see those studies,
00:03:29.860 | especially recent studies.
00:03:31.080 | But my current line of thinking is that resveratrol,
00:03:34.280 | while it may have certain health benefits,
00:03:36.680 | does not seem to increase lifespan.
00:03:39.480 | Now, with that said,
00:03:40.840 | that doesn't mean that things like resveratrol
00:03:43.120 | or grape seed extract are of zero utility.
00:03:45.980 | In fact, I take 400 to 800 milligrams of grape seed extract,
00:03:50.320 | usually with a meal,
00:03:51.540 | it's just part of my standard supplementation stack,
00:03:54.160 | every single day.
00:03:55.660 | But I do that mainly for its effects
00:03:57.460 | on vascular function and blood flow,
00:04:00.380 | and a few other effects that grape seed extract
00:04:02.840 | has been related to.
00:04:05.180 | The data there, I would say, are reasonably strong,
00:04:07.820 | strong enough, certainly,
00:04:09.260 | that when weighed against the potential downsides
00:04:12.260 | of taking grape seed extract,
00:04:14.060 | including the cost of grape seed extract,
00:04:16.740 | lead me to take 400 to 800 milligrams
00:04:19.520 | of grape seed extract per day.
00:04:21.220 | I just do that as a kind of general insurance policy
00:04:24.240 | against a number of things.
00:04:25.620 | And it's part of a small kit of supplements that I take
00:04:29.040 | that fall into that category,
00:04:30.700 | meaning supplements that appear to be very safe,
00:04:33.460 | certainly at the dosages that I just referred to,
00:04:35.840 | supplements that potentially are having positive effects
00:04:39.260 | on our cells,
00:04:40.420 | and that are fairly, if not very low cost, okay?
00:04:44.380 | So that's why I take grape seed extract.
00:04:46.220 | I do not take it for its potential impact on resveratrol
00:04:49.820 | and resveratrol-related pathways per se,
00:04:52.100 | and certainly not to extend my lifespan.
00:04:54.440 | So that basically answers the question that I was asked,
00:04:56.420 | which is, what are your thoughts on resveratrol
00:04:58.820 | for extending lifespan?
00:05:01.060 | My answer was, I don't think it extends lifespan,
00:05:04.140 | but I take something related to resveratrol
00:05:06.540 | for other health purposes.
00:05:08.580 | And by the way, I certainly wouldn't place grape seed extract
00:05:11.540 | in my list of top five or even top 10 supplements
00:05:14.780 | if somebody, for instance, said,
00:05:16.820 | I want to take anywhere from one to 10 supplements,
00:05:20.420 | and I have X amount of budget to devote to supplementation,
00:05:25.020 | and I'm thinking about taking grape seed extract,
00:05:27.060 | would that be one of the top 10 supplements
00:05:28.840 | you would recommend?
00:05:29.680 | I certainly wouldn't put it in the top 10.
00:05:31.800 | And by the way, at some point in the not too distant future,
00:05:34.740 | I will put online, so I'll probably do a podcast episode
00:05:38.300 | listing out all the supplements that I take
00:05:40.140 | and the rationale behind those,
00:05:41.480 | and how long I've taken them,
00:05:42.480 | and the effects that I've observed,
00:05:44.160 | both subjectively and in my blood work,
00:05:46.140 | and what I recommend to other people,
00:05:47.880 | what I don't recommend to other people,
00:05:49.160 | what's specific to me, and so on and so forth.
00:05:51.080 | But meanwhile, that's my answer to the question.
00:05:53.040 | I don't think resveratrol increases longevity,
00:05:55.420 | at least I'm not aware of any direct evidence
00:05:57.620 | for that in humans.
00:05:59.560 | Now, with that said, let's use this as an opportunity
00:06:01.740 | to talk about some of the other so-called
00:06:03.900 | longevity supplements and drugs
00:06:06.340 | that are often discussed online and elsewhere
00:06:09.020 | in terms of their efficacy to increase lifespan.
00:06:12.280 | About four or five years ago,
00:06:14.420 | there was a sudden and increased attention
00:06:16.940 | on NAD-related pathways for increasing longevity.
00:06:21.820 | So the NAD pathway, as some of you may already know,
00:06:25.180 | is a pathway within all of our cells.
00:06:27.600 | This is a pathway that is highly active
00:06:30.300 | in young animals and humans,
00:06:33.060 | but all animals and humans across the entire lifespan
00:06:36.660 | make NAD in their cells.
00:06:38.580 | It's related to cellular energetics,
00:06:40.980 | that is the production of energy in cells.
00:06:43.680 | It has direct relevance to mitochondrial function
00:06:46.300 | and mitochondrial function to it.
00:06:48.140 | And that's a discussion into itself,
00:06:50.300 | but suffice to say that the pathway leading to NAD
00:06:53.840 | includes things such as NR and NMN.
00:06:58.060 | NR and NMN are considered by many to be precursors to NAD.
00:07:02.780 | Okay, so why am I telling you all these acronyms?
00:07:05.340 | Here's the deal.
00:07:06.720 | The argument was made, in fact, by some prior guests
00:07:09.920 | on the Huberman Lab podcast and elsewhere,
00:07:12.360 | that by increasing NAD levels in our cells,
00:07:15.540 | that one could potentially extend lifespan.
00:07:18.860 | And there are generally three ways
00:07:20.920 | in which people have attempted to do that.
00:07:23.300 | Okay, we'll talk about whether or not
00:07:24.400 | increasing NAD in our cells
00:07:26.040 | actually increases lifespan in a moment.
00:07:27.780 | But for the time being, let's just talk about
00:07:29.720 | some of the ways that people have tried to increase NAD
00:07:32.580 | within their brain and body.
00:07:34.480 | The most typical ways that people have done that
00:07:36.200 | is through, until very recently, supplementation.
00:07:39.960 | And so there are supplements out there such as NR,
00:07:43.260 | which we know can increase NAD levels.
00:07:46.260 | So this is taken as a pill or a powder,
00:07:48.840 | sort of typically as a capsule or a powder.
00:07:51.780 | Or by taking NMN, which, and here there's been some,
00:07:56.780 | let's just say debate as to whether or not taking NMN
00:07:59.820 | actually leads to increases in NAD within our cells,
00:08:02.920 | whether or not it can get into our cells,
00:08:04.260 | whether or not it's converted into NAD,
00:08:05.980 | and so on and so on.
00:08:06.960 | But there again, the idea was by taking NAD
00:08:09.880 | either in capsule form,
00:08:11.440 | or it's sometimes taken as a sublingual powder,
00:08:13.900 | that one could increase NAD levels
00:08:15.780 | and thereby potentially increase lifespan.
00:08:19.420 | And then there's a third way that's commonly used
00:08:21.220 | to try and increase NAD levels.
00:08:23.020 | And that's by infusing, by intravenous infusion,
00:08:27.340 | or in some cases by oral administration,
00:08:30.020 | either liquid or pill form NAD itself.
00:08:33.780 | Now, I confess that I have tried
00:08:36.260 | all three of these approaches, okay?
00:08:38.260 | So I do indeed take an NR supplement every day.
00:08:42.340 | I take 500 milligrams of NR.
00:08:45.020 | I also, and have separately taken an NMN supplement.
00:08:49.900 | I take sublingual NMN.
00:08:52.040 | So I'll take anywhere from one to two grams of NMN
00:08:55.020 | as a sublingual powder, which as the name suggests,
00:08:57.100 | you put it under your tongue and it dissolves there.
00:08:59.700 | It's got this kind of tangy flavor.
00:09:01.880 | And the goal for me in taking NR and NMN each day,
00:09:06.880 | and I should mention that sometimes I have just taken NMN
00:09:10.460 | or just NR to do the comparison between NR and NMN
00:09:14.220 | for me in a subjective way,
00:09:15.980 | just comparing what are my energy levels, how do I feel,
00:09:18.740 | whether or not there are any side effects.
00:09:19.960 | And then I've also taken them together
00:09:21.300 | and I've arrived at a protocol
00:09:22.580 | where I take NR and NMN every single day.
00:09:26.500 | And the goal of that is indeed
00:09:28.220 | to increase NAD levels within my system.
00:09:30.900 | However, and I really want to emphasize this,
00:09:33.940 | I do not take NR and NMN in order to increase my lifespan.
00:09:38.900 | In fact, at this point in history,
00:09:41.020 | it's unclear and seems somewhat unlikely
00:09:44.260 | that increasing NAD is going to increase lifespan,
00:09:46.840 | but I think we should always keep our minds open.
00:09:49.900 | There may be data to arrive in the future
00:09:52.020 | that shows that that actually does happen in humans.
00:09:55.220 | Now, there are some animal data suggesting
00:09:57.740 | that increasing NAD either by taking NR and or NMN
00:10:02.500 | can increase lifespan,
00:10:03.820 | but frankly, that is not why I take NR and NMN.
00:10:06.900 | I take NR and NMN in an effort to increase NAD,
00:10:10.340 | and now I realize what I'm about to say
00:10:11.860 | is entirely subjective and I really want to highlight that.
00:10:14.220 | What I'm about to describe is my experience.
00:10:16.420 | It is not based on any peer-reviewed studies.
00:10:19.700 | When I take NR and NMN at the dosages
00:10:23.300 | I talked about a little bit earlier,
00:10:24.900 | it gives me a lot of sustained mental
00:10:27.200 | and physical energy throughout the day.
00:10:28.780 | Now, I've always had a lot of mental and physical energy,
00:10:32.020 | but I'm 48 years old now,
00:10:33.660 | and I'm interested in doing anything that I safely can
00:10:36.700 | to keep those levels of energy as high as is reasonable.
00:10:41.580 | I don't want to have so much energy that I can't sit still
00:10:43.620 | or so much energy that I can't sleep at night,
00:10:45.640 | but I find that when I take NR and NMN in the morning,
00:10:48.700 | so typically I'll do this before my first meal,
00:10:50.900 | I don't really regulate how close it is to that first meal,
00:10:54.140 | so I'll wake up, use the bathroom, hydrate,
00:10:56.980 | get my sunlight,
00:10:58.600 | do all the things I've talked about on other podcasts,
00:11:01.280 | but I'll take my NR and NMN
00:11:03.500 | sometime usually within about an hour or two of waking up
00:11:06.140 | and typically at least 30 minutes to two hours
00:11:09.420 | before my first meal,
00:11:10.460 | which for me usually arrives around 11 a.m.,
00:11:13.340 | so sometimes I'll take it long before my first meal.
00:11:16.340 | In any event, it gives me a lot of energy
00:11:18.220 | and I seem to have that energy throughout the day.
00:11:21.900 | I have gone periods of time where I stopped taking NR
00:11:25.220 | and/or NMN and while I didn't feel
00:11:28.460 | as if I was completely depleted of energy,
00:11:30.740 | I did notice a decrement in energy
00:11:33.340 | compared to when I took NR and NMN.
00:11:35.700 | Now, I want to be very, very clear.
00:11:37.820 | I have no zero financial relationship
00:11:40.580 | to any company that manufactures NR
00:11:43.940 | and while I used to have a relationship
00:11:46.420 | to a company that made NMN,
00:11:48.820 | as of recently, there's an FDA ruling
00:11:51.280 | that has made NMN not available as a supplement
00:11:55.020 | in the wider world.
00:11:56.380 | So earlier this year, that is in 2023,
00:11:59.440 | there was a filing for NMN
00:12:02.320 | as a experimental drug in a clinical trial
00:12:06.500 | and as a consequence, NMN was listed as a banned
00:12:11.500 | or not allowed to be commercially sold supplement
00:12:14.740 | and that has to do with some of the legality
00:12:16.420 | around clinical trials
00:12:18.100 | and when something is listed as an experimental drug,
00:12:20.700 | it can't be listed as a supplement.
00:12:22.920 | Nonetheless, you can still find NMN on the open market.
00:12:26.000 | You can find it on Amazon.
00:12:27.480 | I can't really speak to the purity
00:12:28.760 | of one source versus another.
00:12:30.180 | You'll have to explore that on your own
00:12:32.520 | but I will say this, even though I said it before,
00:12:35.220 | I have zero financial relationship to any company
00:12:38.220 | that manufactures and sells NMN at this time
00:12:41.360 | or NR at this time.
00:12:43.800 | So the short summary to this whole discussion
00:12:45.580 | about NR and NMN is that I take NR and NMN
00:12:49.360 | but I take it because I like how it makes me feel.
00:12:51.160 | It increases my energy levels in the morning
00:12:53.780 | and throughout the day and it does so in a way
00:12:55.460 | that tapers off nicely in the evening
00:12:57.140 | and I can still fall asleep, et cetera.
00:12:59.220 | I do not take it with any expectation
00:13:01.140 | that it's going to increase my lifespan
00:13:02.980 | simply because I don't think the data substantiating
00:13:06.180 | the extension and lifespan are here yet.
00:13:08.360 | They may arrive at some point
00:13:09.500 | but I don't think that they are here yet.
00:13:11.940 | So there are a good number of people out there
00:13:13.680 | that still take NR and or NMN
00:13:16.100 | and are doing so in efforts to increase NAD
00:13:18.440 | and so let's take a moment
00:13:19.800 | and talk about increasing NAD directly
00:13:22.820 | because that's something
00:13:24.180 | that I have some recent experience with
00:13:25.680 | and that's becoming more common
00:13:27.460 | and is yes, still FDA approved, at least as far as I know.
00:13:31.960 | There are companies that can come to your house
00:13:35.460 | or you can go to a facility
00:13:37.280 | and they will give you an NAD infusion.
00:13:40.020 | So they will infuse you directly with NAD into the vein.
00:13:43.140 | I've done this twice now and I will say,
00:13:46.520 | as most people experience when they do an NAD infusion,
00:13:49.580 | it's pretty darn uncomfortable.
00:13:52.060 | In fact, so much so that a lot of people
00:13:53.540 | have to take anti-nausea meds
00:13:55.300 | in order to get the NAD infusion.
00:13:57.560 | I opted to not take the anti-nausea meds
00:14:00.360 | not because I'm particularly tough
00:14:02.480 | but because I don't like taking additional medication
00:14:04.500 | if I can but I've taken anywhere from 500
00:14:07.900 | to a thousand milligrams of NAD by infusion.
00:14:12.620 | I did that at times when I was feeling particularly run down.
00:14:16.420 | Okay, post-illness and I did indeed find
00:14:19.780 | that after the NAD infusion was complete,
00:14:23.180 | I felt much, much better in a number of different ways,
00:14:26.740 | improved sleep, improved vigor,
00:14:28.720 | coming off those illnesses, I felt much better.
00:14:30.980 | But again, there is no clinical trial exploring NAD infusion
00:14:35.580 | for sake of vigor, et cetera, that I am aware of.
00:14:38.420 | I just happen to be somebody who's interested
00:14:40.240 | in exploring these tools and techniques from time to time
00:14:43.420 | and I deemed this as safe.
00:14:45.200 | Whether or not it's safe for you, you have to explore
00:14:47.420 | with your physician.
00:14:48.640 | Also, I do want to reemphasize what I said a moment ago,
00:14:51.140 | those NAD infusions are pretty darn uncomfortable.
00:14:54.660 | You can have the person administering the infusion
00:14:58.420 | adjust the rate of the infusion so that the drip is slower
00:15:01.820 | which makes it more tolerable as opposed to trying to get
00:15:04.940 | the whole infusion bag in there in 45 minutes or less.
00:15:09.040 | I just want to get the whole thing over with
00:15:10.500 | so I just said put it in as quickly as you reasonably
00:15:13.240 | and safely can, it took about an hour,
00:15:15.620 | maybe 45 minutes to an hour.
00:15:17.420 | Initially, I felt nauseous, I felt like someone was stepping
00:15:20.460 | on my chest, I felt like someone was stepping on my legs,
00:15:23.460 | I felt like, well, I've just felt lousy, so awful.
00:15:27.000 | And then after about 10 minutes, it passed and I felt fine.
00:15:30.540 | And then after the infusion was done, as I mentioned before,
00:15:33.380 | I felt terrific.
00:15:34.600 | I was still able to fall asleep that night just fine.
00:15:37.300 | Although I did make it a point to do this earlier
00:15:39.480 | in the day, I have heard of some people doing NAD infusions
00:15:42.860 | later in the day and having challenges with sleep.
00:15:44.840 | But again, that's just anecdotal or we call it anecdotal
00:15:47.700 | if you want, but it's anecdotal.
00:15:49.660 | It's generally assumed for obvious reasons
00:15:52.200 | that NAD infusions are more effective
00:15:55.660 | at increasing cellular levels of NAD
00:15:57.740 | than are NR or NMN or both together.
00:16:02.300 | Although the direct comparison has not been made
00:16:04.300 | as far as I know.
00:16:05.260 | And there's still this general question as to whether or not
00:16:08.000 | any of this stuff is getting into cells directly
00:16:10.660 | and impacting NAD levels in specific cells.
00:16:13.460 | Although I think most people assume
00:16:15.420 | that the NAD infusion certainly are.
00:16:18.220 | There are a number of different experts out there
00:16:20.580 | who debate all the fine points of everything
00:16:22.740 | that I just said, people like Dr. Charles Brenner,
00:16:24.900 | people like Dr. David Sinclair, people like Matt Kaberlein.
00:16:28.100 | There are people who really actively,
00:16:30.020 | and let's just say heatedly debate all the issues
00:16:33.300 | that I just talked about.
00:16:35.260 | I think the greatest debate is around whether or not
00:16:38.240 | increasing NAD levels in cells actually increases lifespan.
00:16:41.800 | But there's also a debate around whether or not NR
00:16:44.280 | is more advantageous than NMN,
00:16:46.420 | whether or not all of this is too premature
00:16:48.180 | to explore yet already.
00:16:50.000 | Again, I just want to restate for the third time,
00:16:52.620 | I don't do any of this stuff in these NAD pathways
00:16:55.920 | for sake of increasing lifespan.
00:16:58.000 | I do it for sake of the vitality and energy effects
00:17:01.440 | that I subjectively experience.
00:17:03.680 | I must say that the NAD infusions are expensive enough,
00:17:08.120 | inconvenient enough, and let's just say uncomfortable enough
00:17:12.500 | that I don't see myself doing them very often,
00:17:15.720 | although perhaps maybe doing them a couple of times a year
00:17:19.220 | or more makes sense.
00:17:20.660 | Should I find myself feeling rundown
00:17:22.380 | or post-illness fatigue or things of that sort?
00:17:24.820 | I would be very curious to learn from any of you,
00:17:27.620 | the audience, what sorts of things you've experienced
00:17:30.660 | when if perhaps you've explored NR supplementation,
00:17:33.780 | NMN supplementation or NAD infusions.
00:17:36.560 | And as I mentioned earlier,
00:17:37.620 | there's now a growing number of different products
00:17:40.060 | that claim that you can take NAD orally,
00:17:43.580 | so either in pill, tincture or other forms,
00:17:45.680 | so no requirement for an infusion,
00:17:48.300 | but I'm not aware of any studies
00:17:50.100 | that have directly linked oral NAD to NAD levels in cells
00:17:55.100 | and how those two things relate.
00:17:56.940 | So lots more important science to be done in this area,
00:18:00.460 | lots more debate surely to be had.
00:18:03.460 | And anytime we talk about supplements,
00:18:04.760 | I just want to emphasize several times
00:18:06.880 | that I do see supplements as indeed supplements.
00:18:10.100 | I think only by getting your light exposure,
00:18:11.820 | sunshine, movement, nutrition, stress modulation,
00:18:14.780 | social relationships, et cetera, correct?
00:18:17.440 | Should you even begin to consider supplementation
00:18:19.760 | because supplementation is just not at the foundation
00:18:23.080 | of mental health, physical health and performance.
00:18:25.120 | It is indeed something that provided it fits
00:18:27.500 | within your safety and economical frameworks
00:18:30.700 | could potentially enhance mental health,
00:18:32.460 | physical health performance in certain ways,
00:18:34.680 | but it's certainly not the foundation
00:18:36.620 | from which you build mental health,
00:18:37.900 | physical health and performance.
00:18:39.640 | So now we've talked about resveratrol,
00:18:41.720 | a little bit about grapeseed extract.
00:18:43.100 | We talked about NR, NMN and NAD and the NAD pathway.
00:18:47.000 | There are a few other things that are commonly discussed
00:18:50.100 | in the longevity sphere, let's call it,
00:18:54.360 | things such as metformin.
00:18:56.320 | I'll just be very direct and say, I do not take metformin.
00:19:00.100 | And I also don't take what some people call
00:19:02.080 | the poor man's version of metformin, which is berberine.
00:19:04.200 | Berberine gives me brutal headaches.
00:19:06.180 | Berberine lowers blood glucose.
00:19:07.860 | That's why I think it's giving me brutal headaches.
00:19:10.540 | A lot of people have explored or thinking about exploring,
00:19:13.980 | taking metformin or berberine for sake
00:19:16.120 | of lowering blood glucose and lowering a particular cellar,
00:19:20.600 | let's just say pathway or set of molecules,
00:19:23.200 | mTOR being the most common of them.
00:19:26.380 | mTOR mammalian targeted rapamycin
00:19:28.400 | is abundant in developing cells.
00:19:30.880 | It's responsible for the growth of individual cells
00:19:33.420 | and the amount of mTOR in our cells tapers off
00:19:36.740 | across our lifespan.
00:19:37.860 | mTOR and its pathways is something
00:19:39.940 | that I've actually worked on fairly extensively
00:19:41.780 | in my laboratory in the context of the regeneration
00:19:44.740 | of the visual system.
00:19:46.300 | So I'm very familiar with it.
00:19:47.700 | And for sake of convenience and ease in this conversation,
00:19:50.820 | we could just think of mTOR as something
00:19:52.420 | that's abundant in cells during development
00:19:55.060 | and anytime cells are growing,
00:19:56.620 | including the growth of tumor cells
00:19:59.300 | and cellular growth at any stage of the lifespan.
00:20:03.200 | So the logic that people have waged is that drugs
00:20:07.860 | like metformin or compounds like berberine
00:20:09.980 | that reduce mTOR levels or impact the mTOR pathway
00:20:14.140 | in ways that lead to net decreases in mTOR,
00:20:17.440 | the logic is that that could somehow increase lifespan.
00:20:21.060 | There's also the logic that fasting can reduce mTOR,
00:20:23.740 | which can increase lifespan.
00:20:25.100 | I don't think there's any direct evidence for that yet,
00:20:27.460 | however, at least not in humans.
00:20:29.480 | So I'll tell you, I don't take berberine
00:20:31.760 | for the reasons I mentioned before,
00:20:33.400 | makes me feel uncomfortable.
00:20:34.460 | I don't, not psychologically uncomfortable,
00:20:36.620 | makes me feel physically uncomfortable.
00:20:38.340 | I don't take metformin because expert colleagues of mine,
00:20:42.220 | including Dr. Peter Urrutia have come on this podcast.
00:20:45.380 | In fact, we did a collaboration journal club podcast
00:20:48.060 | that we'll provide a link to in the show note captions
00:20:50.340 | during which we, meaning mainly Peter,
00:20:52.380 | reviewed the data, the peer review data
00:20:55.260 | on metformin and lifespan.
00:20:56.860 | And at least to my understanding at present,
00:21:00.660 | there isn't sufficient data to support taking metformin
00:21:04.900 | for increasing lifespan.
00:21:06.940 | So that's why I don't take it.
00:21:08.340 | I may in the future, if more data come out
00:21:10.520 | and things change, but right now I see no reason
00:21:13.500 | to take metformin to increase my lifespan.
00:21:16.440 | So I don't take metformin.
00:21:18.220 | Similarly, there's a lot of discussion out there
00:21:20.640 | about rapamycin.
00:21:21.700 | Remember mTOR, mammalian target of rapamycin is so named
00:21:26.100 | because it's a target of this drug,
00:21:27.620 | which is used largely as an anti-cancer drug,
00:21:30.080 | but has other purposes as well.
00:21:31.820 | Rapamycin is actively under investigation,
00:21:34.900 | which makes it sound like there was a crime committed,
00:21:36.940 | but as far as I know, there wasn't.
00:21:38.740 | Under active scientific exploration
00:21:42.320 | would be the more accurate way to say it,
00:21:44.440 | by excellent researchers, such as Dr. Matt Kaberlein
00:21:47.500 | up at the University of Washington in Seattle.
00:21:49.820 | He's been looking at rapamycin for its ability
00:21:51.840 | to extend lifespan, focusing on many different species,
00:21:55.100 | including dogs.
00:21:56.140 | So he has a dog longevity project.
00:21:58.360 | So that's really interesting.
00:22:00.120 | Dr. Peter Attia has talked a lot about rapamycin
00:22:02.520 | and did a recent podcast about rapamycin
00:22:04.860 | with not only Matt Kaberlein,
00:22:07.480 | but one of the experts in the world on mTOR.
00:22:09.900 | So I invite you to check out that podcast
00:22:12.120 | if you want to learn about rapamycin.
00:22:13.960 | So there is a fair amount of understanding
00:22:15.740 | about the biological pathways of rapamycin
00:22:18.300 | and mTOR and so on.
00:22:19.780 | And there are clinician physicians like Peter,
00:22:23.660 | as well as others who are quite excited
00:22:26.620 | about the potential for rapamycin to extend lifespan.
00:22:30.160 | Although you have to go directly to Peter
00:22:31.560 | to find out exactly what he's doing,
00:22:33.160 | whether or not he's taking rapamycin or not.
00:22:35.480 | I certainly can't speak for him.
00:22:37.440 | But at present, I don't take rapamycin.
00:22:40.880 | Why don't I take rapamycin?
00:22:42.400 | Well, I don't take rapamycin because at least to my eye,
00:22:47.160 | the data at present don't justify that
00:22:49.900 | for sake of increasing lifespan.
00:22:51.880 | That is not to say that rapamycin isn't an effective drug
00:22:55.060 | for the treatment of various cancers
00:22:56.540 | and for other purposes.
00:22:57.460 | But for me at this point in time,
00:23:00.020 | I just don't see a good reason for me to take rapamycin
00:23:04.980 | relative to some of the,
00:23:06.800 | let's just say substantiated potential side effects
00:23:09.840 | of rapamycin.
00:23:10.680 | It is a drug that I think can be taken safely
00:23:13.680 | under certain conditions,
00:23:15.040 | but has enough of a side effect profile
00:23:18.160 | that I'm not interested in taking it
00:23:20.020 | for sake of increasing lifespan at this time, okay?
00:23:22.720 | So no metformin, no rapamycin for me right now.
00:23:26.280 | Perhaps in the future.
00:23:27.640 | I've listed out the things that I'm perfectly willing
00:23:30.000 | and happy to do.
00:23:31.540 | Grapeseed extract, NR and NMN,
00:23:34.260 | the occasional NAD infusion to increase NAD directly.
00:23:38.820 | And for the time being,
00:23:39.720 | I've decided to stay away from metformin and rapamycin.
00:23:43.020 | But of course, any and all of that could change
00:23:44.720 | going forward, depending on the data that are published
00:23:46.720 | and my own experiences.
00:23:48.340 | As a final point on this,
00:23:50.940 | I want to again emphasize that the foundation
00:23:54.820 | of a quality life and a long life
00:23:57.520 | is most certainly going to come from the basics.
00:24:01.100 | Perhaps the most fundamental and important of which
00:24:03.400 | is to get sufficient amounts of quality sleep each night.
00:24:06.140 | We know that not doing that
00:24:07.820 | can indeed reduce your lifespan.
00:24:09.600 | If not directly, then certainly indirectly
00:24:12.480 | by increased number of accidents
00:24:14.200 | and certainly being far less happy
00:24:16.380 | and energetic during the day.
00:24:17.640 | So that's fundamental also.
00:24:19.920 | And this is very important to emphasize.
00:24:22.000 | And here I'm essentially borrowing the word
00:24:24.400 | straight out of Dr. Peter Attia's mouth.
00:24:27.020 | So forgive me, Peter.
00:24:28.740 | This won't be nearly as eloquent or succinct
00:24:30.660 | as Peter would make it.
00:24:31.940 | But it is very, very clear that at present,
00:24:34.920 | there is no supplement or drug for increasing longevity
00:24:38.640 | that even comes close to the known improvements
00:24:42.780 | in health metrics that relate to longevity
00:24:44.820 | that come from getting quality sleep
00:24:47.020 | and especially from getting sufficient amounts
00:24:49.860 | of quality exercise.
00:24:51.640 | So that means both a combination of cardiovascular exercise,
00:24:55.340 | a minimum of 180 to 220 minutes
00:24:59.500 | of so-called zone two cardio per week.
00:25:02.460 | Okay, so that's cardio that you can carry out
00:25:04.420 | while still maintaining a conversation,
00:25:06.020 | but should you increase the intensity anymore,
00:25:08.340 | you would have a hard time completing your sentences.
00:25:11.220 | But in addition to that, also doing some VO2 max work,
00:25:13.820 | so getting your heart rate way, way up
00:25:15.140 | at least once per week.
00:25:16.500 | And also of course, doing resistance training,
00:25:19.260 | either with weights, machines, or body weight,
00:25:22.060 | doing that at sufficient intensity,
00:25:23.900 | six sets minimum per body part per week
00:25:27.660 | to maintain not just muscular size and strength,
00:25:30.760 | but equally important, perhaps even more important,
00:25:33.940 | maintaining nerve to muscle connectivity,
00:25:36.340 | which correlates with cognitive function
00:25:38.520 | and a number of other important longevity metrics.
00:25:40.800 | So again, exercise, sleep, quality nutrition,
00:25:45.520 | quality social connection,
00:25:46.920 | which means eliminating as best you can
00:25:48.900 | toxic social connection
00:25:50.900 | and increasing quality social connection,
00:25:53.180 | people that you like and enjoy spending time with
00:25:55.300 | and feel enriched by, stress modulation,
00:25:57.900 | all of these things are so key.
00:25:59.220 | And of course, getting morning sunlight,
00:26:01.220 | all of those things combined
00:26:02.620 | to have a huge outsized effect compared to anything
00:26:06.180 | that you could take in pill capsule or infusion.
00:26:09.220 | So before even considering taking any supplement or drug
00:26:11.760 | to increase your longevity,
00:26:13.900 | or even for increasing vitality for that matter,
00:26:16.660 | get those basics of sleep, sunlight, nutrition, movement,
00:26:20.260 | stress modulation, or stress control, I should say,
00:26:23.600 | and relationships down.
00:26:25.900 | Get those right and get that morning sunlight
00:26:27.840 | to set your circadian rhythm,
00:26:29.060 | because of course your circadian rhythm
00:26:30.420 | is what anchors it all.
00:26:32.340 | And I'd be completely remiss if I didn't emphasize yet again
00:26:36.180 | that anytime you're thinking of adding a supplement
00:26:38.920 | or removing a supplement from your regimen
00:26:41.080 | or adding a prescription drug
00:26:42.640 | or removing a prescription drug,
00:26:44.420 | you absolutely should consult your board certified physician.
00:26:49.140 | Thank you for joining
00:26:49.980 | for the beginning of this Ask Me Anything episode.
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00:26:56.020 | of these Ask Me Anything sessions,
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