Whitney Cummings: Neurology and Mind over Matter | AI Podcast Clips
00:00:00.000 | - You've done actually quite, done a lot of thinking
00:00:04.900 | and talking about neurology,
00:00:06.480 | just kind of look at human behavior through the lens
00:00:09.640 | of looking at how actually chemically our brain works.
00:00:13.720 | So what, first of all, why did you connect with that idea
00:00:18.520 | and what have you, how has your view of the world changed
00:00:22.120 | by considering the brain is just a machine?
00:00:27.000 | - You know, I know it probably sounds really nihilistic,
00:00:29.120 | but for me, it's very liberating
00:00:31.160 | to know a lot about neurochemicals
00:00:33.040 | because you don't have to,
00:00:34.640 | it's like the same thing with like critics,
00:00:37.040 | like critical reviews, if you believe the good,
00:00:39.320 | you have to believe the bad kind of thing.
00:00:40.680 | Like, you know, if you believe that your bad choices
00:00:43.480 | were because of your moral integrity or whatever,
00:00:48.320 | you have to believe your good ones.
00:00:49.320 | I just think there's something really liberating
00:00:50.880 | and going like, oh, that was just adrenaline.
00:00:52.640 | I just said that thing 'cause I was adrenalized
00:00:54.280 | and I was scared and my amygdala was activated
00:00:56.680 | and that's why I said you're an asshole and get out.
00:00:58.960 | And that's, you know, I just think it's important
00:01:01.320 | to delineate what's nature and what's nurture,
00:01:03.400 | what is your choice and what is just your brain
00:01:05.640 | trying to keep you safe.
00:01:06.640 | I think we forget that even though we have security systems
00:01:09.160 | and homes and locks on our doors,
00:01:11.000 | that our brain for the most part
00:01:12.160 | is just trying to keep us safe all the time.
00:01:13.840 | It's why we hold grudges, it's why we get angry,
00:01:15.960 | it's why we get road rage, it's why we do a lot of things.
00:01:19.360 | And it's also, when I started learning about neurology,
00:01:21.880 | I started having so much more compassion for other people.
00:01:24.280 | You know, if someone yelled at me,
00:01:25.840 | being like, fuck you on the road,
00:01:27.160 | I'd be like, okay, he's producing adrenaline right now
00:01:29.160 | because we're all going 65 miles an hour
00:01:32.240 | and our brains aren't really designed
00:01:34.840 | for this type of stress and he's scared.
00:01:37.840 | He was scared, you know, so that really helped me
00:01:39.880 | to have more love for people in my everyday life
00:01:42.920 | instead of being in fight or flight mode.
00:01:45.560 | But the, I think, more interesting answer to your question
00:01:48.680 | is that I've had migraines my whole life.
00:01:50.240 | Like I've suffered with really intense migraines,
00:01:53.560 | ocular migraines, ones where my arm would go numb
00:01:56.880 | and I just started having to go to so many doctors
00:01:59.520 | to learn about it.
00:02:00.760 | And I started, you know, learning that
00:02:03.560 | we don't really know that much.
00:02:05.200 | We know a lot, but it's wild to go into
00:02:08.040 | one of the best neurologists in the world
00:02:09.400 | who's like, yeah, we don't know.
00:02:10.240 | - We don't know. - We don't know.
00:02:11.840 | And that fascinated me.
00:02:13.160 | - It's like one of the worst pains
00:02:14.320 | you can probably have, all that stuff.
00:02:16.040 | And we don't know the source.
00:02:17.840 | - We don't know the source.
00:02:18.840 | And there is something really fascinating
00:02:20.920 | about when your left arm starts going numb
00:02:24.000 | and you start not being able to see
00:02:25.520 | out of the left side of both your eyes.
00:02:27.320 | And I remember when the migraines get really bad,
00:02:29.840 | it's like a mini stroke almost,
00:02:31.360 | and you're able to see words on a page,
00:02:34.360 | but I can't read them.
00:02:35.720 | They just look like symbols to me.
00:02:37.560 | So there's something just really fascinating to me
00:02:39.480 | about your brain just being able to stop functioning.
00:02:42.760 | And so I just wanted to learn about it, study about it.
00:02:46.120 | I did all these weird alternative treatments.
00:02:47.840 | I got this piercing in here that actually works.
00:02:50.360 | I've tried everything.
00:02:51.480 | And then both of my parents had strokes.
00:02:53.680 | So when both of my parents had strokes,
00:02:55.520 | I became sort of the person who had to decide
00:02:58.640 | what was gonna happen with their recovery,
00:03:01.120 | which is just a wild thing to have to deal with it,
00:03:03.600 | you know, 28 years old when it happened.
00:03:06.600 | And I started spending basically all day, every day
00:03:09.560 | in ICUs with neurologists learning about
00:03:12.280 | what happened to my dad's brain
00:03:13.560 | and why he can't move his left arm,
00:03:15.640 | but he can move his right leg,
00:03:17.000 | but he can't see out of the, you know.
00:03:18.680 | And then my mom had another stroke
00:03:20.440 | in a different part of the brain.
00:03:22.520 | And so I started having to learn
00:03:24.200 | what parts of the brain did what
00:03:26.040 | and so that I wouldn't take their behavior so personally
00:03:28.400 | and so that I would be able to manage my expectations
00:03:30.520 | in terms of their recovery.
00:03:31.960 | So my mom, because it affected a lot of her frontal lobe,
00:03:35.800 | changed a lot as a person.
00:03:37.640 | She was way more emotional.
00:03:39.120 | She was way more micromanaged.
00:03:40.320 | She was forgetting certain things.
00:03:41.560 | So it broke my heart less when I was able to know,
00:03:44.880 | oh yeah, well, the stroke hit this part of the brain
00:03:46.640 | and that's the one that's responsible for short-term memory
00:03:48.760 | and that's responsible for long-term memory, da-da-da.
00:03:51.600 | And then my brother just got something
00:03:53.240 | called viral encephalitis,
00:03:55.160 | which is an infection inside the brain.
00:03:57.800 | So it was kind of wild that I was able to go,
00:04:00.840 | oh, I know exactly what's happening here.
00:04:02.200 | And I know, you know, so.
00:04:04.320 | - So that allows you to have some more compassion
00:04:07.000 | for the struggles that people have.
00:04:09.000 | But does it take away some of the magic
00:04:11.160 | for some of the,
00:04:12.920 | from some of the more positive experiences of life?
00:04:15.520 | - Sometimes.
00:04:16.520 | Sometimes, and I don't, I'm such a control addict
00:04:19.920 | that, you know, I think our biggest,
00:04:22.680 | someone like me,
00:04:23.960 | my biggest dream is to know why someone's doing it.
00:04:25.560 | That's what stand-up is.
00:04:26.800 | It's just trying to figure out why,
00:04:28.000 | or that's what writing is, that's what acting is,
00:04:29.640 | that's what performing is.
00:04:30.480 | It's trying to figure out why someone would do something.
00:04:32.040 | As an actor, you get a piece of, you know, material
00:04:34.600 | and you go, this person, why would he say that?
00:04:36.680 | Why would she pick up that cup?
00:04:38.360 | Why would she walk over here?
00:04:39.600 | It's really why, why, why, why.
00:04:41.120 | So I think neurology is,
00:04:42.560 | if you're trying to figure out human motives
00:04:44.880 | and why people do what they do,
00:04:46.080 | it'd be crazy not to understand
00:04:48.560 | how neurochemicals motivate us.
00:04:50.600 | I also have a lot of addiction in my family
00:04:52.600 | and hardcore drug addiction and mental illness.
00:04:56.000 | And in order to cope with it,
00:04:58.240 | you really have to understand it.
00:04:59.280 | Borderline personality disorder,
00:05:00.520 | schizophrenia, and drug addiction.
00:05:02.880 | So I have a lot of people I love
00:05:05.160 | that suffer from drug addiction and alcoholism.
00:05:07.400 | And the first thing they started teaching you
00:05:09.280 | is it's not a choice.
00:05:10.440 | These people's dopamine receptors
00:05:11.920 | don't hold dopamine the same ways yours do.
00:05:14.160 | Their frontal lobe is underdeveloped.
00:05:16.120 | Like, you know, and that really helped me
00:05:19.120 | to navigate loving people
00:05:22.440 | that were addicted to substances.
00:05:24.760 | - I wanna be careful with this question,
00:05:27.120 | but how much--
00:05:28.760 | - Money do you have?
00:05:29.880 | - How much--
00:05:30.720 | (laughing)
00:05:32.040 | Can I borrow $10?
00:05:33.320 | (laughing)
00:05:35.440 | Okay.
00:05:36.280 | No, is how much control,
00:05:41.040 | how much, despite the chemical imbalances
00:05:44.280 | or the biological limitations
00:05:47.440 | that each of our individual brains have,
00:05:49.000 | how much mind over matter is there?
00:05:51.600 | So through things,
00:05:53.960 | and I've known people with clinical depression,
00:05:57.720 | and so it's always a touchy subject
00:06:00.080 | to say how much they can really help it.
00:06:02.200 | - Very.
00:06:03.040 | - What can you, yeah, what can you,
00:06:06.200 | 'cause you've talked about codependency,
00:06:08.080 | you've talked about issues that you struggle through,
00:06:11.920 | and nevertheless, you choose to take a journey
00:06:14.400 | of healing and so on.
00:06:15.640 | So that's your choice, that's your actions.
00:06:18.760 | So how much can you do to help fight the limitations
00:06:22.240 | of the neurochemicals in your brain?
00:06:24.560 | - That's such an interesting question,
00:06:26.360 | and I don't think I'm at all qualified to answer it,
00:06:28.000 | but I'll say what I do know.
00:06:30.080 | And really quick, just the definition of codependency,
00:06:32.720 | I think a lot of people think of codependency
00:06:34.440 | as like two people that can't stop hanging out,
00:06:37.200 | you know, or like, you know,
00:06:39.720 | that's not totally off,
00:06:41.160 | but I think for the most part,
00:06:42.800 | my favorite definition of codependency
00:06:44.480 | is the inability to tolerate the discomfort of others.
00:06:47.440 | You grow up in an alcoholic home,
00:06:48.600 | you grow up around mental illness, you grow up in chaos,
00:06:51.000 | you have a parent that's a narcissist,
00:06:52.800 | you basically are wired to just people please,
00:06:56.040 | worry about others, be perfect, walk on eggshells,
00:06:59.240 | shape shift to accommodate other people.
00:07:01.200 | So codependence is a very active wiring issue
00:07:06.200 | that, you know, doesn't just affect
00:07:09.040 | your romantic relationships,
00:07:10.200 | it affects you being a boss,
00:07:11.560 | it affects you in the world online,
00:07:15.040 | you know, you get one negative comment
00:07:16.560 | and it throws you for two weeks,
00:07:18.720 | you know, it also is linked to eating disorders
00:07:20.720 | and other kinds of addiction.
00:07:21.680 | So it's a very big thing.
00:07:24.720 | And I think a lot of people sometimes only think
00:07:26.520 | that it's in romantic relationships,
00:07:28.040 | so I always feel the need to say that.
00:07:30.480 | And also one of the reasons I love the idea of robots
00:07:32.600 | so much because you don't have to walk on eggshells
00:07:34.920 | around them, you don't have to worry
00:07:36.080 | they're gonna get mad at you yet,
00:07:37.840 | but codependence are hypersensitive to the needs
00:07:42.520 | and moods of others, and it's very exhausting.
00:07:45.880 | It's depleting.
00:07:46.720 | Just one conversation about where we're gonna go to dinner
00:07:49.920 | is like, do you wanna go get Chinese food?
00:07:51.760 | We just had Chinese food.
00:07:52.920 | Well, wait, are you mad?
00:07:54.640 | Well, no, I didn't mean to, and it's just like,
00:07:57.000 | codependence live in this, everything means something
00:08:01.160 | and humans can be very emotionally exhausting.
00:08:04.680 | Why did you look at me that way?
00:08:05.680 | What are you thinking about?
00:08:06.520 | What was that?
00:08:07.360 | It's not your phone.
00:08:08.280 | It's a hypersensitivity that can be incredibly
00:08:11.320 | time-consuming, which is why I love the idea
00:08:13.400 | of robots just subbing in.
00:08:15.280 | Even I've had a hard time running TV shows and stuff
00:08:18.360 | because even asking someone to do something,
00:08:19.880 | I don't wanna come off like a bitch.
00:08:21.080 | I'm very concerned about what other people think of me,
00:08:23.200 | how I'm perceived, which is why I think robots
00:08:26.160 | will be very beneficial for codependence.
00:08:28.400 | - By the way, just a real quick tangent,
00:08:30.160 | that skill or flaw, whatever you wanna call it,
00:08:33.680 | is actually really useful for if you ever do
00:08:36.640 | start your own podcast for interviewing
00:08:39.160 | because you're now kind of obsessed
00:08:41.000 | about the mindset of others
00:08:43.760 | and it makes you a good sort of listener and talker.
00:08:47.240 | So I think, what's her name from NPR?
00:08:53.080 | Terry Gross talked about having that.
00:08:56.200 | - I don't feel like she has that at all.
00:08:58.240 | (laughing)
00:09:00.760 | What?
00:09:01.600 | She worries about other people's feelings?
00:09:05.240 | - Yeah, absolutely.
00:09:06.320 | - Oh, I don't get that at all.
00:09:08.240 | - I mean, you have to put yourself in the mind
00:09:09.760 | of the person you're speaking with.
00:09:11.680 | - Yes, oh, I see, just in terms of, yeah,
00:09:13.640 | I am starting a podcast and the reason I haven't
00:09:15.960 | is because I'm codependent and I'm too worried
00:09:17.560 | it's not gonna be perfect.
00:09:18.880 | So a big codependent adage is perfectionism
00:09:22.800 | leads to procrastination, which leads to paralysis.
00:09:24.880 | - So how do you, sorry to take a million tangents,
00:09:26.800 | how do you survive on social media?
00:09:28.120 | 'Cause you're exceptionally active.
00:09:29.720 | - But by the way, I took you on a tangent
00:09:31.120 | and didn't answer your last question
00:09:32.360 | about how much we can control.
00:09:34.480 | - I want you, yeah, we'll return it
00:09:36.120 | or maybe not. - Okay.
00:09:37.480 | - The answer is we can't.
00:09:38.320 | - Now as a codependent, I'm worried, okay, guys.
00:09:40.760 | We can, but one of the things that I'm fascinated by
00:09:44.160 | is the first thing you learn when you go
00:09:45.800 | into 12-step programs or addiction recovery
00:09:48.040 | or any of this is genetics loads the gun,
00:09:50.800 | environment pulls the trigger.
00:09:52.360 | And there's certain parts of your genetics
00:09:55.040 | you cannot control.
00:09:56.080 | I come from a lot of alcoholism,
00:09:58.720 | I come from a lot of mental illness,
00:10:04.400 | there's certain things I cannot control
00:10:06.240 | and a lot of things that maybe we don't even know yet
00:10:08.560 | what we can and can't
00:10:09.400 | 'cause of how little we actually know about the brain.
00:10:11.280 | But we also talk about the warrior spirit.
00:10:13.320 | And there are some people that have that warrior spirit
00:10:16.680 | and we don't necessarily know what that engine is,
00:10:19.880 | whether it's you get dopamine from succeeding
00:10:22.560 | or achieving or martyring yourself
00:10:25.760 | or that tension you get from growing.
00:10:29.480 | So a lot of people are like,
00:10:30.320 | "Oh, well, this person can edify themselves and overcome."
00:10:33.640 | But if you're getting attention from improving yourself,
00:10:36.880 | you're gonna keep wanting to do that.
00:10:39.080 | So that is something that helps a lot of
00:10:41.800 | in terms of changing your brain.
00:10:43.120 | If you talk about changing your brain to people
00:10:44.960 | and talk about what you're doing
00:10:46.160 | to overcome set obstacles,
00:10:47.440 | you're gonna get more attention from them,
00:10:49.120 | which is gonna fire off your reward system
00:10:51.360 | and then you're gonna keep doing it.
00:10:52.560 | - So you can leverage that momentum.
00:10:54.840 | - So this is why in any 12-step program,
00:10:57.240 | you go into a room and you talk about your progress
00:10:59.720 | 'cause then everyone claps for you.
00:11:01.680 | And then you're more motivated to keep going.
00:11:03.360 | So that's why we say you're only as sick
00:11:04.720 | as the secrets you keep,
00:11:05.760 | because if you keep things secret,
00:11:08.240 | there's no one guiding you to go in a certain direction.
00:11:10.680 | It's based on, right?
00:11:11.640 | We're sort of designed to get approval from the tribe
00:11:14.960 | or from a group of people 'cause our brain
00:11:17.400 | translates it to safety.
00:11:19.160 | So-
00:11:20.000 | - And in that case, the tribe is a positive one
00:11:22.240 | that helps you go to the positive direction.
00:11:24.080 | - So that's why it's so important to go into a room
00:11:25.800 | and also say, "Hey, I wanted to use drugs today."
00:11:29.640 | And people go, "Hmm."
00:11:30.960 | They go, "Me too."
00:11:31.960 | And you feel less alone and you feel less like you're,
00:11:34.920 | have been castigated from the pack or whatever.
00:11:37.280 | And then you say, "And I haven't,"
00:11:38.720 | you get a chip when you haven't drank for 30 days
00:11:40.920 | or 60 days or whatever.
00:11:42.120 | You get little rewards.
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