AMA #1: Leveraging Ultradian Cycles, How to Protect Your Brain, Seed Oils Examined and More

00:00:00.000 | [upbeat music]

00:00:00.840 | Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast,

00:00:02.280 | where we discuss science and science-based tools

00:00:04.880 | for everyday life.

00:00:05.900 | I'm Andrew Huberman,

00:00:10.040 | and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology

00:00:12.840 | at Stanford School of Medicine.

00:00:14.600 | Today is an Ask Me Anything or AMA episode,

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00:01:16.720 | Without further ado, let's get to answering your questions.

00:01:20.120 | And as always, I will strive to be as clear as possible,

00:01:23.720 | as succinct as possible, and as thorough as possible,

00:01:27.720 | while still answering as many questions per AMA episode

00:01:31.760 | as I can without these sessions becoming unreasonably long.

00:01:35.020 | I should also point out that if you asked a question

00:01:37.000 | and it was not answered this AMA,

00:01:39.400 | it may very well be answered in the next AMA.

00:01:42.560 | So the first question, which had a lot of upvotes,

00:01:45.440 | meaning many people wanted the answer to this question,

00:01:47.800 | came from Jackson Lipfort.

00:01:49.480 | And the question was about so-called ultradian rhythms.

00:01:52.560 | For those of you that are not familiar

00:01:54.000 | with ultradian rhythms, ultradian rhythms are any rhythms

00:01:57.280 | that are shorter than 24 hours.

00:01:59.760 | And typically when people ask about

00:02:01.820 | or talk about ultradian rhythms,

00:02:03.560 | they are referring to 90 minute rhythms.

00:02:05.820 | I've talked about these on the podcast before.

00:02:07.800 | And Jackson's question was,

00:02:09.440 | how do you use ultradian rhythms in your daily work?

00:02:13.300 | There's more to the question, but first off,

00:02:15.400 | I do use ultradian rhythms.

00:02:17.060 | That is, I leverage the fact that these do exist

00:02:19.960 | in all of us as a way to engage in focused bouts

00:02:24.200 | of mental work once or twice,

00:02:26.640 | or sometimes three times per day.

00:02:29.200 | However, I use them in a way that's grounded in the research

00:02:32.700 | on ultradian rhythms for learning and memory

00:02:34.980 | in a way that might not be obvious just from their name,

00:02:37.400 | that they are 90 minute rhythms.

00:02:39.080 | So I'll get into the details of how to use ultradian rhythms

00:02:42.660 | to best capture neuroplasticity,

00:02:44.680 | that is the brain's ability to change

00:02:46.080 | in response to experience,

00:02:47.700 | and in a way that should allow you to get one or two,

00:02:52.040 | or maybe even three focused bouts of learning per day,

00:02:54.940 | which can greatly accelerate learning of cognitive material,

00:02:58.760 | languages, mathematics, history for sake of school or work,

00:03:02.400 | or maybe just a hobby or a personal interest of some sort,

00:03:05.200 | and for skill learning in the physical domain as well.

00:03:07.940 | Jackson then went on to ask,

00:03:09.520 | you've mentioned before that you try to include

00:03:11.360 | at least one 90 minute focus block per day

00:03:13.700 | as part of your work and overall mission.

00:03:15.280 | And indeed that is true.

00:03:16.400 | I try to get at least one of these focused

00:03:18.600 | ultradian rhythm blocks per day.

00:03:20.940 | That is a period of about 90 minutes

00:03:24.300 | where I'm focused on learning something

00:03:26.040 | or doing something that's cognitively hard.

00:03:28.300 | Although typically I aim for two of these sessions per day.

00:03:31.640 | He then goes on to ask,

00:03:32.600 | what is the maximum number of blocks

00:03:34.200 | you can perform sustainably?

00:03:36.260 | The answer to that is probably four.

00:03:39.420 | And I say probably because some people have schedules,

00:03:42.640 | lifestyles in which four 90 minute blocks

00:03:46.580 | of focused learning is possible per day,

00:03:50.120 | but that's highly unusual.

00:03:51.260 | For most people, it's going to be one or two, maybe three,

00:03:54.720 | four I would place in the really extraordinary

00:03:56.960 | end of things.

00:03:57.800 | Maybe if you're cramming for exams

00:03:59.400 | or you've managed to go on a writing retreat

00:04:01.580 | or a learning retreat of some sort,

00:04:03.540 | where you can devote essentially all of your non sleeping,

00:04:06.840 | non eating time to learning.

00:04:09.560 | But most people simply can't organize their life that way.

00:04:11.640 | So the short answer is for me,

00:04:13.880 | it's one or two per day is the target

00:04:16.840 | and three would be the maximum.

00:04:19.080 | He then went on to ask,

00:04:20.220 | do you take vacations or extended breaks

00:04:22.120 | from these ultradian rhythm sessions?

00:04:24.720 | And the short answer is no.

00:04:27.260 | Typically I try and do this every day.

00:04:29.180 | And yes, even on the weekends,

00:04:30.520 | but on the weekend,

00:04:31.640 | the ultradian rhythm focused learning bout

00:04:33.760 | might just be reading a book for about 90 minutes or so,

00:04:37.120 | which might not be as cognitively difficult

00:04:39.720 | as it is for other sorts of work

00:04:41.740 | that I performed during the week.

00:04:43.040 | I occasionally miss a day entirely for whatever reason,

00:04:45.840 | travel obligations related to family, et cetera.

00:04:49.740 | But in general, I try and do this every day.

00:04:51.920 | I do think that the circuits for focus are,

00:04:55.400 | I guess the non-biological way to put it would be kept warm,

00:04:58.160 | but essentially that accessing the circuits for focus

00:05:01.480 | is made easier by accessing them regularly.

00:05:04.240 | And that's because the circuits for focus

00:05:05.900 | are indeed themselves amenable to neuroplasticity

00:05:09.660 | In other words, the more you force yourself to focus,

00:05:12.140 | the easier focusing gets.

00:05:14.160 | I'll now answer the last part of the question,

00:05:15.880 | and then I will go through and emphasize some tools

00:05:18.900 | that anyone can use in order to leverage ultradian rhythms

00:05:22.740 | toward learning bouts, either cognitive learning

00:05:25.560 | or physical skill learning, or a combination of the two.

00:05:29.160 | The last part of the question Jackson asked was,

00:05:31.220 | if you knew you needed to drastically increase

00:05:33.400 | the amount of focus you do daily,

00:05:35.180 | how would you schedule that focus and recover from it?

00:05:38.200 | That's an excellent aspect to this question.

00:05:41.440 | And I will now give you the details

00:05:43.200 | of how I would use and schedule ultradian rhythms.

00:05:46.080 | I'll offer you a tool.

00:05:47.140 | I've never talked about this tool

00:05:48.400 | on the Huberman Lab podcast.

00:05:49.700 | And I will dispel a common myth about ultradian rhythms

00:05:53.080 | that points to a, believe it or not,

00:05:55.000 | an easier way to leverage them for maximum benefit.

00:05:58.340 | Okay, so as I mentioned before,

00:05:59.620 | ultradian rhythms are these 90 minute cycles

00:06:02.120 | that we go through from the time that we are born

00:06:05.160 | until the time we die.

00:06:06.160 | Indeed, even during sleep, we are experiencing

00:06:10.020 | and more or less governed by these ultradian rhythms.

00:06:13.300 | This question and this answer is not so much about sleep,

00:06:16.180 | but just know that when you go to sleep at night

00:06:18.000 | until you wake up in the morning,

00:06:19.560 | every 90 minutes or so, your patterns of sleep,

00:06:22.040 | that is the percentage or ratio rather of slow wave sleep

00:06:25.720 | to light sleep to rapid eye movement sleep,

00:06:27.660 | changes in a way such that each 90 minute cycle

00:06:32.360 | gates the next cycle.

00:06:33.560 | It sort of flips the on switch for the next 90 minute cycle,

00:06:36.380 | then that 90 minute cycle ends,

00:06:38.060 | flips the on switch for the next one

00:06:39.380 | and so on and so forth.

00:06:40.640 | I mentioned all that because during the daytime,

00:06:42.480 | the same thing is true,

00:06:44.600 | but most people don't know

00:06:45.880 | when the 90 minute ultradian cycles begin.

00:06:49.040 | Because if you think about it,

00:06:50.040 | you could wake up on the basis of an alarm clock

00:06:53.840 | or noise in the room,

00:06:55.120 | or simply because you naturally wake up

00:06:57.380 | in the middle of an ultradian 90 minute cycle.

00:07:00.280 | So does that mean, for instance,

00:07:02.080 | that if you wake up 60 minutes into an ultradian cycle,

00:07:05.640 | that the next 30 minutes of your waking, right?

00:07:08.880 | Because that 60 minutes needs to continue to 90

00:07:11.160 | to complete an ultradian cycle,

00:07:12.500 | that the next 30 minutes after waking

00:07:15.760 | are related to the ultradian cycle

00:07:18.440 | that you were still in during sleep,

00:07:21.120 | or does it start a new ultradian cycle?

00:07:23.880 | And the answer is the former,

00:07:25.440 | that ultradian cycle continues

00:07:27.380 | even if you wake up in the middle of it.

00:07:29.560 | And so a lot of people who want to leverage ultradian cycles

00:07:32.360 | for learning will say,

00:07:33.320 | well, how do I know when to start one?

00:07:34.660 | Does it start when I hit my stopwatch?

00:07:36.520 | Can I just set a clock and work for 90 minutes?

00:07:38.800 | And the short answer is no.

00:07:40.600 | And that might seem unfortunate,

00:07:41.940 | but the good news is that you can figure out

00:07:45.280 | when your first proper ultradian cycle of the day begins

00:07:49.800 | simply by asking yourself,

00:07:51.440 | when are you most alert after waking?

00:07:54.680 | That is, if you were say to wake up at 7 a.m.

00:07:57.240 | and let's say that's the end of an ultradian cycle,

00:07:59.960 | or perhaps you're in the middle of an ultradian cycle,

00:08:02.680 | doesn't matter.

00:08:04.200 | What you need to watch for

00:08:05.540 | or pay attention to for a day or so

00:08:07.220 | is when you start to experience

00:08:09.080 | your greatest state of mental alertness in the morning.

00:08:13.160 | And here we can discard with all the issues

00:08:15.080 | and variables around caffeine or no caffeine,

00:08:17.140 | hydrating or no hydrating.

00:08:19.200 | Exercise is one variable that we'll consider in a moment,

00:08:22.720 | but here's the deal.

00:08:24.720 | These ultradian cycles are actually triggered

00:08:27.720 | by fluctuations in the so-called glucocorticoid system,

00:08:32.480 | the system that regulates cortisol release.

00:08:35.280 | And as some of you have probably heard me say before,

00:08:38.520 | cortisol, even though it's often discussed

00:08:40.460 | as a terrible thing,

00:08:41.560 | it's chronic stress, cortisol, cortisol, et cetera,

00:08:44.520 | cortisol is essential for health.

00:08:46.360 | And every day we get a rise in cortisol in the morning

00:08:50.160 | that is associated with enhanced immune function,

00:08:52.360 | enhanced alertness, enhanced ability to focus,

00:08:55.360 | so on and so forth.

00:08:56.240 | In fact, the protocol that I'm always beating the drum about

00:08:59.080 | that people should get sunlight in their eyes

00:09:01.080 | as close to waking as possible,

00:09:02.400 | that actually enhances or increases the peak level

00:09:05.580 | of cortisol that's experienced early in the day.

00:09:08.600 | And that sets in motion

00:09:09.700 | a number of these ultradian cycles.

00:09:11.360 | So for instance, if you wake up at 7 AM

00:09:13.280 | and you find that for the first hour after waking,

00:09:15.800 | you tend to be a little bit groggy

00:09:18.080 | or you happen to be groggy on a given day,

00:09:20.360 | but then you notice that your attention alertness

00:09:22.720 | starts to peak somewhere around 9.30 AM or 10 AM,

00:09:27.320 | you can be pretty sure that that first ultradian cycle

00:09:31.340 | for learning is going to be optimal

00:09:34.020 | to start at about 9.30 or 10 AM.

00:09:36.780 | How can I say about if it's indeed a 90 minute cycle?

00:09:40.520 | Well, this is really where the underlying neurobiology

00:09:43.880 | in these ultradian cycles converge

00:09:45.380 | to give you a specific protocol.

00:09:47.060 | The changes in cortisol that occur throughout the day

00:09:49.400 | involve, yes, a big peak early in the day,

00:09:51.380 | if you're getting your sunlight and caffeine

00:09:53.340 | and maybe even some exercise early in the day,

00:09:55.860 | but typically that peak comes early

00:09:58.040 | and then across the day, the baseline jitters a little bit.

00:10:01.120 | It comes down, but it bounces around a little bit.

00:10:03.240 | It's not a flat line

00:10:04.420 | if we were to measure your glucocorticoid levels.

00:10:07.320 | Each one of those little bumps corresponds to a shift

00:10:10.360 | in these ultradian cycles.

00:10:12.240 | So if you find that you are most alert at 9.30

00:10:16.280 | or starting to become alert at 9.30

00:10:18.320 | and then typically you have a peak of focus

00:10:20.260 | and concentration around 10 AM,

00:10:22.380 | that is really valuable to know

00:10:25.160 | because the way that the molecules

00:10:27.920 | that control neuroplasticity,

00:10:29.800 | that is the changes in neurons and other cell types

00:10:32.760 | in the brain that allow your nervous system to learn

00:10:35.700 | and literally for new connections to form between neurons,

00:10:38.600 | which is basically the basis of learning,

00:10:40.760 | those fluctuate according to these ultradian cycles.

00:10:44.600 | What does this mean?

00:10:45.660 | This means if your peak and alertness and focus and energy

00:10:50.140 | could even be experienced as physical energy

00:10:51.820 | occurs at about 9.30 AM,

00:10:53.900 | I would start your first ultradian cycle for learning

00:10:56.580 | somewhere around there.

00:10:58.020 | Certainly 9.30 AM would be ideal,

00:10:59.960 | but 10 AM would be fine as well.

00:11:01.740 | And then you have about one hour

00:11:04.220 | to get the maximum amount of learning in

00:11:06.260 | even within that ultradian cycle.

00:11:08.000 | This is where there's a lot of confusion out there.

00:11:09.620 | People think, oh, ultradian cycles are 90 minutes.

00:11:12.040 | Therefore we should be in our peak level of focus

00:11:15.500 | throughout that 90 minutes.

00:11:16.760 | In reality, most people take about 10 or 15 minutes

00:11:19.280 | to break into a really deep trench of focus.

00:11:22.120 | And then periodically throughout the next hour,

00:11:24.580 | they'll pop out of that focus

00:11:26.620 | and have to deliberately refocus.

00:11:28.460 | This is why, if possible,

00:11:30.120 | you want to turn off wifi connections

00:11:31.720 | and put your phone in the other room or turn it off.

00:11:33.900 | If you do need your phone or wifi,

00:11:35.500 | just be aware of how distracting those things can be

00:11:37.980 | to getting into a deep trench of focus.

00:11:40.520 | But the point is this,

00:11:42.360 | these 90 minute cycles occur periodically

00:11:44.680 | throughout the day,

00:11:45.640 | but there is going to be one period early in the day.

00:11:48.300 | And here I'm referring to this period

00:11:49.620 | as starting at about 9.30 or 10 AM.

00:11:51.620 | And then likely another one in the mid to late afternoon

00:11:55.540 | that are going to be ideal for focused learning.

00:11:59.340 | And that focused learning about should ideally

00:12:02.780 | have you set your clock,

00:12:04.780 | a stopwatch or something to measure 90 minutes.

00:12:07.720 | But do assume that there's going to be

00:12:10.180 | some jitter at the front end

00:12:11.400 | where you're not going to be able to focus

00:12:13.140 | as deeply as you would like.

00:12:14.180 | Then you'll get about an hour of deep focus.

00:12:16.900 | And then you really start to transition

00:12:18.380 | out of these ultradian cycles.

00:12:20.540 | How do you know when the afternoon ultradian cycle occurs?

00:12:23.280 | Well, just as in the morning it occurs

00:12:25.560 | because there's a brief but significant increase

00:12:28.620 | in the glucocorticoid system in the mid to late afternoon.

00:12:32.600 | I wish I could tell you it's going to be 2 PM

00:12:34.580 | or it's going to be 3 PM.

00:12:37.740 | That's really going to depend on the individual

00:12:39.700 | when you ingest caffeine,

00:12:40.820 | some of the other demands of your day.

00:12:42.860 | But you can learn to recognize

00:12:45.020 | when these two periods for optimized learning will occur.

00:12:49.060 | And here are the key principles.

00:12:50.780 | Watch for a day or two, meaning pay attention

00:12:52.780 | to when you have your peak levels of physical

00:12:54.840 | and mental energy in the morning.

00:12:56.460 | That is between waking and noon.

00:12:58.220 | And then again, between noon and about 6 or 7 PM.

00:13:02.680 | Although I'm sure that there are some late shifted folks

00:13:04.600 | that will experience their peak and focus

00:13:06.180 | somewhere around 6 or 7 PM,

00:13:07.700 | especially if they're waking up around 10 or 11 AM

00:13:09.740 | as I know some people out there are.

00:13:12.340 | Once you know where those peaks and focus occur

00:13:15.280 | on your schedule, set a stopwatch for one ultradian cycle

00:13:20.060 | in the early part of the day.

00:13:21.580 | In this example, I was saying 9.30,

00:13:23.300 | but if you can't hop on it until 10, that's fine.

00:13:26.060 | Set it for 90 minutes, consider that block wholly,

00:13:28.980 | meaning rule out all other distractions,

00:13:30.980 | but assume that within that 90 minute block,

00:13:33.060 | you were only going to be able to focus intensely

00:13:35.580 | for about one hour.

00:13:37.620 | And just know that the molecules that control neuroplasticity

00:13:40.820 | and these things have names and yes,

00:13:42.700 | brain derived neurotrophic factor or BDNF

00:13:44.700 | is sort of the most famous of those,

00:13:46.360 | but there are others as well.

00:13:47.660 | In fact, the very receptors that control synaptic strength,

00:13:50.880 | the connections between neurons,

00:13:52.420 | some of the neurotransmitters and neuromodulators involved

00:13:54.980 | in synaptic plasticity, they undergo regulation

00:13:57.840 | by these ultradian or changes in glucocorticoid.

00:14:01.780 | And then try and capture a second

00:14:04.940 | ultradian learning block in the afternoon.

00:14:07.520 | Again, just knowing that the first 10 or 15 minutes,

00:14:09.720 | consider it mental warmup, and then you get about an hour,

00:14:12.500 | it's not exactly 60 minutes,

00:14:13.780 | but about an hour to maximize learning.

00:14:15.640 | So if you're trying to learn something,

00:14:17.100 | really capture it during that phase as well.

00:14:19.300 | Now, is there a third opportunity or a fourth opportunity?

00:14:23.020 | This relates to Jackson's question directly.

00:14:25.620 | And the short answer is not really.

00:14:27.900 | Unless you're somebody who requires very little sleep,

00:14:30.240 | within the 12 or 16 hours that one tends to be awake

00:14:33.380 | during the day or 18 hours that one tends to be awake,

00:14:35.940 | there are really only two of these major peaks

00:14:38.020 | in the glucocorticoid system

00:14:39.540 | that trigger the onset of these circadian cycles.

00:14:41.700 | Again, there's sort of a ramping up and a ramping down

00:14:45.520 | of glucocorticoids throughout the day.

00:14:47.280 | But the real key here is to learn when you tend

00:14:49.860 | to be most focused based on your regular sleep wake cycle,

00:14:52.740 | caffeine intake, exercise, et cetera.

00:14:54.660 | And again, that's going to vary from person to person.

00:14:57.020 | And you really only have two opportunities

00:14:58.780 | or two ultradian cycles to capture

00:15:01.080 | in order to get the maximum focus,

00:15:03.520 | challenging work done, AKA learning.

00:15:06.620 | So for somebody that wants to learn

00:15:08.300 | an immense amount of material or who has the opportunity

00:15:11.220 | to capture another ultradian cycle,

00:15:15.100 | the other time where that tends to occur

00:15:17.140 | is also early days.

00:15:18.720 | So some people by waking up early and using stimulants

00:15:22.580 | like caffeine and hydration

00:15:23.840 | or some brief high intensity exercise

00:15:26.080 | can trigger that cortisol pulse

00:15:28.260 | to shift a little bit earlier

00:15:29.700 | so that they can capture a morning work block

00:15:31.860 | that occurs somewhere, let's say between six and 7.30 AM.

00:15:35.460 | So let's think about our typical person,

00:15:37.500 | at least in my example, that's waking up around 7.00 AM.

00:15:41.020 | And then I said,

00:15:42.180 | has their first ultradian work cycle really flip on

00:15:45.500 | 'cause that bump in cortisol around 9.30 or 10.00 AM?

00:15:48.540 | If that person were say to set their alarm clock

00:15:51.120 | for 5.30 AM, then get up, get some artificial light.

00:15:56.120 | If the sun isn't out, turn on brighter artificial lights,

00:15:59.800 | or if the sun happens to be up that time of year,

00:16:02.540 | get some sunlight in your eyes.

00:16:04.180 | But irrespective of sunlight,

00:16:06.980 | we're to get a little bit of brief high intensity exercise,

00:16:09.620 | maybe 10 or 15 minutes of skipping rope

00:16:11.780 | or even just jumping jacks or go out for a brief jog.

00:16:15.200 | What happens then is the cortisol pulse

00:16:16.980 | starts to shift earlier.

00:16:18.740 | And so the next day and the following day

00:16:20.700 | and so on and so forth,

00:16:21.880 | provided they're still doing that exercise first thing

00:16:24.540 | and ideally getting some light in their eyes as well.

00:16:26.960 | Well, then they have an opportunity to capture

00:16:29.100 | an increase in cortisol that is now shifted

00:16:31.300 | from about 7.00 AM to about 8.30 AM.

00:16:34.260 | So they can capture an hour of work there

00:16:35.940 | and then they will also still be within that rising phase

00:16:40.360 | of cortisol in the 9.30 to 10.00 AM block

00:16:43.820 | that lasts until about 11.30 or so.

00:16:47.220 | They might have lunch, perhaps after lunch,

00:16:48.980 | they do a non-sleep deep rest, maybe they don't,

00:16:51.140 | maybe you're a napper, maybe you're not,

00:16:52.880 | doesn't really matter.

00:16:53.860 | And then in the afternoon,

00:16:56.600 | and I would suspect it would now be in the earlier afternoon,

00:16:59.560 | sometime around two or 2.30 would be typical.

00:17:02.580 | Although again, that exact time will vary person to person,

00:17:06.800 | then they would want to schedule another

00:17:08.760 | 90 minute work block.

00:17:09.760 | So that's how you can capture three.

00:17:11.420 | Now you can start to see also why capturing

00:17:13.660 | four ultradian work blocks would be exceedingly rare.

00:17:16.780 | It's just not typical that people are awake

00:17:19.660 | for that much of the day, you have to sleep at some point.

00:17:21.980 | And I should mention that if you're going to force yourself

00:17:23.740 | to wake up earlier on a consistent basis,

00:17:25.880 | you probably should be trying to get to sleep

00:17:27.780 | a little bit earlier as well,

00:17:28.900 | because it's not just the quality,

00:17:30.100 | but the duration of quality sleep that really matters

00:17:33.200 | for learning.

00:17:34.040 | And I should also remind everybody that the actual rewiring

00:17:38.580 | of neurons does not occur during any focused work block.

00:17:41.300 | It actually occurs during deep sleep the following night

00:17:43.740 | and the following night and during non-sleep deep rest.

00:17:46.020 | This is why non-sleep deep rest can accelerate learning

00:17:49.300 | because it's in states of rest that the actual connections

00:17:52.180 | between neurons strengthen or weaken or new neurons are

00:17:55.140 | added in a way that allows for what we call learning.

00:17:58.420 | Okay, so one or two ultradian work blocks per day

00:18:01.760 | is typical, three would be really exceptional

00:18:05.420 | and four would be extraordinary.

00:18:07.880 | Look for them, meaning look to see when you are feeling

00:18:11.900 | most focused and alert,

00:18:13.580 | typically in the period before waking and noon,

00:18:16.580 | and typically in the period between noon and bedtime,

00:18:20.220 | given your standard intake of caffeine and exercise

00:18:23.900 | and other life events.

00:18:26.300 | Please also remember that even though it's an ultradian

00:18:29.820 | 90 minute work block,

00:18:31.680 | the neuroplasticity is going to be best triggered

00:18:34.300 | within a 60 minute portion of that.

00:18:37.440 | And there's no way to know exactly when that 60 minutes

00:18:40.500 | begins and ends until you actually begin the work block.

00:18:43.060 | So this is really designed to be empirical.

00:18:45.200 | You need to actually go do this.

00:18:46.580 | What you'll notice again is that it's hard to focus

00:18:48.460 | at first, then you'll drop into a state of focus.

00:18:50.580 | You may get distracted, that's perfectly normal.

00:18:52.520 | You refocus, get back into triggering learning.

00:18:55.040 | That's really what you're doing.

00:18:55.880 | You're triggering learning and then there'll be some taper

00:18:58.220 | and then you'll be out of the ultradian work block.

00:19:00.420 | Now it's also key to understand that myself and other people

00:19:05.260 | should not expect that they're only working

00:19:07.140 | during these 90 minute work blocks.

00:19:09.040 | It's just that a lot of the sorts of demands of our day,

00:19:11.540 | including, you know, cooking and shopping for groceries

00:19:15.780 | and email and text messaging and social media,

00:19:18.820 | a lot of those things don't require intense focus

00:19:21.020 | of the sort that I believe Jackson is asking

00:19:23.520 | about maximizing and that I'm referring to

00:19:25.280 | when I talk about these ultradian work blocks.

00:19:27.540 | And then as a final point,

00:19:29.180 | I've been talking about these ultradian work blocks

00:19:30.860 | and focus, et cetera, in a context that brings to mind ideas

00:19:34.740 | about cognitive work.

00:19:36.140 | So learning a language, learning math, writing or creating,

00:19:39.620 | doing something related to music, et cetera.

00:19:41.900 | But these 90 minute ultradian work blocks

00:19:44.580 | also directly relate to physical skill learning as well

00:19:48.740 | and to physical exercise as well.

00:19:50.460 | So if you are somebody who's really interested

00:19:52.560 | in improving your fitness and your fitness requires

00:19:55.380 | a lot of focused attention.

00:19:57.220 | So for instance, when I go out for a long run on Sundays,

00:20:00.180 | which is part of my fitness routine,

00:20:02.300 | I'm deliberately not thinking about much.

00:20:04.180 | I'm just trying to cruise along.

00:20:05.380 | I might focus a little bit on my pace and stride,

00:20:07.700 | maybe an audio book I'm listening to or a podcast,

00:20:10.460 | but typically I'm just kind of cruising along.

00:20:12.780 | It's low cognitive demand work.

00:20:15.020 | These ultradian work blocks can really be maximized

00:20:17.700 | for pure cognitive work.

00:20:19.820 | So kind of book type work, et cetera, music, et cetera,

00:20:23.480 | or they can also be leveraged toward skill learning.

00:20:26.820 | So if you're trying to learn how to dance

00:20:29.040 | or how to perform a particular athletic move,

00:20:31.240 | or you're trying to get better at some skill

00:20:33.460 | that requires a lot of focus and alignment

00:20:36.240 | of muscular movement and cognitive demands, et cetera,

00:20:40.960 | well then these are also going to be ideal

00:20:43.180 | for triggering neuroplasticity to get better

00:20:45.260 | in the motor skill based domain as it's called, et cetera.

00:20:50.220 | If you'd like to learn more about ultradian shifts

00:20:53.180 | in neuroplasticity and ultradian work bouts,

00:20:56.020 | I will certainly do more on this

00:20:57.700 | in the Standard Huberman Lab podcast,

00:20:59.860 | but the keywords to look up,

00:21:01.740 | if you want to explore this further online,

00:21:03.460 | it's not something that a lot of people know about,

00:21:05.620 | it's called iterative metaplasticity.

00:21:08.220 | It's a vast literature and one that I'd be happy to teach

00:21:11.180 | you in a standard podcast episode.

00:21:13.020 | But in the interest of getting to more questions

00:21:15.420 | from you all, hopefully the answer I've given you now

00:21:19.760 | has been complete enough, yet clear enough,

00:21:23.380 | and yet succinct enough that you can start to leverage

00:21:26.760 | these really powerful aspects of iterative metaplasticity

00:21:30.420 | and ultradian rhythms for learning.

00:21:32.600 | And I'd just like to point out that these opportunities

00:21:35.740 | for focused learning that occur

00:21:38.540 | in these 90 minute ultradian cycles

00:21:40.520 | are really terrific opportunities.

00:21:42.700 | They are offered to you at least twice every day,

00:21:45.980 | and you can really learn to detect when they occur

00:21:48.660 | and when they're likely to occur.

00:21:50.580 | You can certainly learn at other times in the 24 hour cycle,

00:21:54.360 | but for anyone who's tried to stay up late at night

00:21:57.000 | cramming for an exam, or for somebody who's tried to learn

00:22:00.500 | during the sleepiest time of their afternoon,

00:22:04.320 | we can be very familiar with the fact

00:22:07.100 | that there are times of day in which we are best at learning

00:22:10.420 | and as I've just described, there are ways to capture

00:22:14.080 | those moments and they are valuable moments.

00:22:16.680 | So even though it's just about three hours per day,

00:22:19.180 | or really only two hours per day

00:22:20.580 | 'cause of the 60, 90 minute thing

00:22:22.100 | that I talked about a few minutes ago,

00:22:23.860 | learn to know when these occur

00:22:25.580 | and really treat them as valuable, maybe even wholly

00:22:29.260 | in the sense that they are really the times

00:22:31.220 | that are offered up to you each day by your own biology

00:22:34.200 | in ways that will allow you to get better

00:22:36.580 | pretty much at anything.

00:22:37.940 | Thank you for joining for the beginning

00:22:39.500 | of this Ask Me Anything episode.

00:22:41.440 | To hear the full episode and to hear future episodes

00:22:44.820 | of these Ask Me Anything sessions,

00:22:46.420 | plus to receive transcripts of them

00:22:48.680 | and transcripts of the Huberman Lab Podcast

00:22:50.900 | Standard Channel and premium tools

00:22:53.500 | not released anywhere else,

00:22:54.900 | please go to hubermanlab.com/premium.

00:22:58.060 | Just to remind you why we launched

00:22:59.260 | the Huberman Lab Podcast Premium Channel,

00:23:01.460 | it's really twofold.

00:23:02.340 | First of all, it's to raise support

00:23:04.260 | for the standard Huberman Lab Podcast Channel,

00:23:06.740 | which of course will still be continued to be released

00:23:09.780 | every Monday in full length.

00:23:11.460 | We are not going to change the format

00:23:12.860 | or anything about the standard Huberman Lab Podcast

00:23:16.440 | and to fund research,

00:23:17.880 | in particular research done on human beings.

00:23:19.940 | So not animal models, but on human beings,

00:23:21.980 | which I think we all agree is a species

00:23:23.780 | that we are most interested in.

00:23:25.980 | And we are going to specifically fund research

00:23:28.980 | that is aimed toward developing further protocols

00:23:31.620 | for mental health, physical health, and performance.

00:23:33.660 | And those protocols will be distributed

00:23:35.560 | through all channels, not just the premium channel,

00:23:37.960 | but through all channels, Huberman Lab Podcast

00:23:39.660 | and other media channels.

00:23:40.980 | So the idea here is to give you information

00:23:43.560 | to your burning questions in depth

00:23:45.740 | and allow you the opportunity to support

00:23:47.920 | the kind of research that provides those kinds of answers

00:23:50.660 | in the first place.

00:23:51.660 | Now, an especially exciting feature of the premium channel

00:23:54.020 | is that the tiny foundation has generously offered

00:23:56.980 | to do a dollar for dollar match on all funds raised

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00:24:02.260 | So this is a terrific way that they're going to amplify

00:24:04.860 | whatever funds come in through the premium channel

00:24:06.820 | to further support research for science

00:24:08.880 | and science-related tools for mental health,

00:24:10.660 | physical health, and performance.

00:24:12.180 | If you'd like to sign up

00:24:13.020 | for the Huberman Lab premium channel,

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00:24:19.620 | That will give you access to all the AMAs.

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00:24:46.440 | Again, that's HubermanLab.com/premium.

00:24:49.360 | And as always, thank you for your interest in science.

00:24:52.180 | [upbeat music]

00:24:54.760 | (upbeat music)

AMA #1: Leveraging Ultradian Cycles, How to Protect Your Brain, Seed Oils Examined and More

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