Master the 5 Types of Wealth to Unlock True Freedom (ft. Sahil Bloom)

00:00:00.000 | - What if there were more to wealth than just money?

00:00:03.060 | Don't believe me?

00:00:03.900 | Then ask yourself.

00:00:05.200 | - Would you trade lives with Warren Buffett?

00:00:07.720 | He is worth $130 billion.

00:00:11.200 | He is 95 years old.

00:00:13.160 | There's no way you would trade the amount of time

00:00:15.920 | he has left for the amount of time you have,

00:00:17.960 | even for $130 billion.

00:00:19.720 | - Today with my friend, Sahil Bloom,

00:00:21.640 | we're gonna explore the five types of wealth,

00:00:23.880 | time, social, mental, physical, and financial,

00:00:26.800 | and how balancing all of them can lead

00:00:28.840 | to a life of true fulfillment.

00:00:30.640 | We'll share practical strategies for building your wealth

00:00:33.160 | by regaining control of your time,

00:00:35.240 | strengthening your relationships,

00:00:36.740 | enhancing your mental clarity,

00:00:38.500 | and investing in your health,

00:00:40.300 | all while building your financial freedom.

00:00:42.520 | Whether you're starting fresh or looking to level up,

00:00:44.840 | I really think you'll like this one.

00:00:46.560 | I'm Chris Hutchins.

00:00:47.400 | If you enjoyed this episode,

00:00:48.600 | please share it with a friend or leave a comment or review.

00:00:51.360 | And if you wanna keep upgrading your life, money, and travel,

00:00:53.760 | click follow or subscribe.

00:00:55.500 | So I think so many people have an idea

00:00:57.940 | of what time wealth is.

00:00:59.060 | And I know the last time you were on the show,

00:01:00.560 | we looked at some charts about how much time you spend

00:01:02.940 | and how it changes for different people.

00:01:05.120 | What are the key factors of time wealth?

00:01:07.600 | - The general consensus, standard, societal,

00:01:11.000 | cultural definition of wealth has always just been money.

00:01:13.560 | And in my view, it's really because money is so measurable.

00:01:17.000 | Like Peter Drucker, the management theorist says,

00:01:19.200 | "What gets measured gets managed."

00:01:21.180 | And the reality is a feature of money

00:01:23.240 | is that it is so measurable.

00:01:24.380 | You can place a single number next to your name

00:01:27.200 | and determine your entire life worth.

00:01:30.000 | Unfortunately, while money is useful as a tool

00:01:32.560 | for a whole lot of things in our life,

00:01:34.300 | it is not the singular thing that contributes

00:01:36.440 | to a life of meaning and a life of fulfillment and happiness.

00:01:40.180 | There are many other things.

00:01:41.460 | That is really what this book is about.

00:01:42.920 | The five types of wealth, financial wealth being one of them.

00:01:45.880 | So I am very much not saying that money doesn't matter

00:01:48.640 | and that you should go live off in the Himalayas,

00:01:51.080 | meditating 12 hours a day and drinking warm broth.

00:01:53.660 | If you want to, by all means, go do that.

00:01:55.580 | I just won't be joining you.

00:01:56.680 | But it is a life built around these other four things

00:02:00.280 | in addition to money.

00:02:01.120 | And those other four are time wealth, social wealth,

00:02:04.560 | mental wealth, and physical wealth.

00:02:06.120 | We can talk through each of the five

00:02:07.880 | if it's useful as a framing and can go from there.

00:02:10.600 | - And do any of these types of wealth

00:02:11.840 | have more or less impact than others?

00:02:13.640 | Or is there a reason that time wealth is first?

00:02:15.960 | - Time wealth is fundamentally, I think,

00:02:18.120 | of about two things.

00:02:19.100 | It is about one, your awareness

00:02:21.400 | of the impermanent, finite nature of your time,

00:02:24.540 | of the fact that time is your most precious asset,

00:02:27.360 | a true awareness of that fact.

00:02:29.520 | And then it is about your control of that time,

00:02:32.280 | your ability to actually control

00:02:34.240 | your calendar and priorities on a actual functional basis,

00:02:37.320 | your ability to take that time

00:02:38.680 | and invest it into things that you want.

00:02:41.080 | So if you choose to invest it in working 100 hours a week

00:02:43.920 | on things that are really meaningful to you,

00:02:45.880 | that is great and that is your choice.

00:02:47.920 | Or if you choose to sit around on a beach in Bali and relax,

00:02:51.360 | that is also your choice.

00:02:52.680 | But the ability to actually control your time

00:02:55.540 | is the kind of second piece

00:02:57.020 | that is really important with time wealth.

00:02:59.460 | - And what are some of the ways

00:03:01.500 | that someone can actually become more aware

00:03:04.940 | of that finite nature of time?

00:03:07.420 | - I think the first thing that people need to do

00:03:11.300 | is simply ask themselves a set of questions

00:03:16.220 | around time as an asset,

00:03:17.620 | questions that sort of frame up the fact

00:03:19.540 | that time is a valuable asset in their life

00:03:22.840 | and one that is terrifyingly finite and impermanent.

00:03:25.960 | So each section of the book

00:03:27.320 | is framed around one big question.

00:03:28.840 | The big question in time wealth is,

00:03:30.640 | how many moments do you have remaining

00:03:32.640 | with the people you love?

00:03:34.560 | And we talked about this last time

00:03:36.280 | in the context of those charts.

00:03:37.520 | These short windows of time

00:03:39.280 | during which these people occupy your life,

00:03:42.000 | they are very finite.

00:03:44.000 | And we don't think about that enough in the moment.

00:03:47.160 | We think about it at the end once it's too late.

00:03:49.360 | Time has this funny nature where for most people,

00:03:51.460 | you think about it not at all until the very end

00:03:54.060 | when it's the only thing you think about,

00:03:55.700 | but then it's too late.

00:03:56.540 | You can't do anything about it.

00:03:57.980 | So asking yourself those questions in the present

00:04:00.500 | along the way is the path to actually developing

00:04:03.140 | more awareness about that time,

00:04:05.300 | about the fact that it is finite.

00:04:08.080 | The other question I love to ask people,

00:04:09.780 | young people in particular, that frames this up is,

00:04:13.580 | would you trade lives with Warren Buffett?

00:04:16.140 | He is worth $130 billion.

00:04:19.980 | He has access to anyone in the world.

00:04:21.980 | He reads and learns for a living.

00:04:23.300 | He flies around on private jets

00:04:24.540 | and has a bunch of fancy houses,

00:04:26.060 | but you wouldn't trade lives with him

00:04:27.940 | simply because he is 95 years old.

00:04:30.980 | There's no way you would trade the amount of time

00:04:33.740 | he has left for the amount of time you have,

00:04:35.780 | even for $130 billion.

00:04:37.620 | And on the flip side, he would give anything to be your age.

00:04:41.580 | He would trade all 130 billion to be in your shoes

00:04:44.700 | and to have the amount of time that you have left.

00:04:46.860 | So we know by asking ourselves something like that,

00:04:49.740 | that our time has incalculable value.

00:04:53.300 | Now we need to act in the present to recognize that,

00:04:55.660 | actually take actions to center and to focus our time

00:04:59.440 | and energy on the things that we truly care about,

00:05:01.300 | on the things that matter,

00:05:02.420 | that drive us forward towards our goals.

00:05:04.820 | So I went through this exercise.

00:05:06.020 | We'll talk about how people can kind of calibrate themselves

00:05:08.260 | on all these, which there's a tool you guys have built

00:05:11.300 | to be able to say, where am I on this?

00:05:13.140 | And time wealth was one that was interesting.

00:05:15.020 | I think where I struggle is on the control side.

00:05:17.300 | It's like, it's very easy to know that time is finite,

00:05:19.980 | but I don't feel in control of that time.

00:05:22.500 | And I imagine a lot of people who spend their day

00:05:26.020 | doing a job maybe they don't love

00:05:27.820 | or just have taken on too much,

00:05:29.860 | which I think is often my case is,

00:05:31.660 | it's not that I don't love what I'm doing,

00:05:33.060 | but I might take on 25 projects

00:05:35.060 | and then realize I didn't leave enough moments for family

00:05:38.460 | or friends in the week.

00:05:40.900 | How do you think about that side of it

00:05:42.760 | and how people can kind of take control?

00:05:46.140 | - Yeah, you have different domains of your life

00:05:49.020 | and your degrees of control

00:05:50.780 | across different domains will vary, right?

00:05:52.680 | If I'm working a nine to five job and I have bosses

00:05:55.420 | and people that I need to be responsive to,

00:05:56.980 | I may have less control, especially early in my career.

00:05:59.940 | As I rise through the ranks within that,

00:06:01.540 | I'll probably develop more control.

00:06:04.180 | In your personal life, you have more control.

00:06:06.220 | You may have responsibilities and things

00:06:08.180 | that you have to do,

00:06:09.020 | but you typically have more control over what you say yes

00:06:11.480 | and what you say no to in your personal life

00:06:13.180 | than you do your professional life.

00:06:15.340 | The point is that you need to actually understand

00:06:18.020 | that control, that that freedom is the goal.

00:06:20.820 | You can't lose sight of that because along the way,

00:06:23.580 | you can then be taking actions to say no to the things

00:06:26.880 | that probably aren't actually moving the needle

00:06:28.960 | in your life.

00:06:29.800 | What most of us do is we do this thing of saying yes

00:06:33.500 | to things in the future because we don't think

00:06:35.620 | they're ever really gonna come.

00:06:36.740 | It's called the yes damn effect.

00:06:38.920 | Something comes your way, you say yes to it

00:06:41.680 | under the premise that you are going to have more time

00:06:44.700 | for it in the future.

00:06:45.540 | So someone invites you to something two months from now

00:06:47.560 | and you say yes, then the thing comes and you're like,

00:06:49.840 | damn, I can't believe I have to go do this thing.

00:06:52.120 | And so we fill our time, we make ourselves endlessly busy,

00:06:55.960 | but we don't have enough time to focus on the real things

00:06:58.240 | that are going to vault us forward,

00:06:59.560 | that are going to progressively change the level

00:07:02.200 | that we're on, the 10x, 100x outcomes.

00:07:04.240 | Learning to say no more effectively is a great way

00:07:07.120 | to start taking more control over your time.

00:07:09.220 | Learning to recognize energy creators

00:07:11.660 | versus energy drainers in your life,

00:07:13.780 | meaning the things that are truly creating energy

00:07:16.460 | on a daily basis, those are typically the things

00:07:18.940 | that are actually driving the greatest output.

00:07:20.940 | Those are the things that you're leaning into,

00:07:22.500 | the things that are actually creating real value

00:07:24.900 | versus energy drainers, the things that are just

00:07:26.780 | pulling down your energy, that are hurting you, as it were.

00:07:30.180 | Learning to identify between the two and in the book,

00:07:32.220 | there's an exercise called the energy calendar

00:07:34.200 | for actually sketching that out in your life.

00:07:36.700 | You can start to make slow methodical shifts

00:07:39.180 | over periods of time to start taking more control

00:07:42.100 | over your time so that you can push yourself forward.

00:07:44.300 | - Are there any other activities or kind of things

00:07:47.380 | you can do that are kind of the most important ways

00:07:50.040 | to impact your time?

00:07:51.340 | - Developing an actual awareness of the two to three things

00:07:54.780 | that are truly your priorities within your personal

00:07:57.500 | and then within your professional spheres,

00:07:59.280 | I would say is the first exercise we all need to do.

00:08:01.820 | Like most of us, if you ask us to list out our priorities,

00:08:05.220 | we'll list 20 things.

00:08:06.460 | And the reality is if you have 20 priorities,

00:08:08.300 | you have zero priorities.

00:08:10.380 | Because you cannot be prioritizing 20 different things.

00:08:12.700 | That's just not the way that life works.

00:08:14.620 | If you had to choose two to three things

00:08:16.300 | that you were gonna work on that you thought

00:08:17.860 | were gonna truly move you forward,

00:08:19.580 | what would those two to three things be?

00:08:21.760 | And limit yourself, create a true forced constraint

00:08:24.860 | that you can only focus on these two to three things.

00:08:27.640 | It was like Tim Ferriss back in the day

00:08:29.140 | with the four hour work week, had the idea of like,

00:08:31.540 | if you could only work for two hours for the entire week,

00:08:34.500 | what would you work on?

00:08:35.740 | And it's a silly, crazy question to ask for most people.

00:08:39.060 | But the crazy question forces you to figure out

00:08:41.920 | what is the thing that would actually allow me

00:08:44.300 | to get all of this done,

00:08:45.340 | that would actually allow me to move forward?

00:08:47.420 | Asking those kinds of questions really does help

00:08:49.540 | in figuring out what are the things

00:08:51.180 | that are really moving the needle?

00:08:52.640 | And what are the things that are just movement?

00:08:54.420 | Like the rocking horse phenomenon.

00:08:56.340 | A whole lot of movement,

00:08:57.360 | not a lot of actually going anywhere.

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00:10:03.300 | So for me, time wealth was one

00:10:04.940 | where I felt like I was lower than the others.

00:10:07.860 | And I'm curious if one of them

00:10:11.020 | is more important than the other,

00:10:12.580 | or if there are ultimate things,

00:10:14.220 | whether it's happiness or something else

00:10:16.180 | that they each impact,

00:10:17.800 | that some have outsized impact on.

00:10:20.640 | So they all contribute

00:10:23.100 | to a life of fulfillment and happiness.

00:10:26.060 | They are not ever going to be equal for anyone, right?

00:10:29.660 | Like all of our priorities are different.

00:10:31.260 | The things that we truly care about are different.

00:10:33.260 | Time wealth is at the heart of all of them.

00:10:35.660 | And it is the first section for a reason in the book,

00:10:39.340 | because time is what unlocks you

00:10:41.340 | to invest in any of these areas.

00:10:44.160 | When you create time wealth,

00:10:45.940 | when you create an ability to choose

00:10:47.900 | how you spend your time,

00:10:49.340 | that is what allows you to then allocate that time

00:10:51.540 | into the things you really care about.

00:10:52.940 | So if you have that freedom

00:10:54.940 | and you have the control over your priorities,

00:10:57.180 | you could invest it into building relationships,

00:10:59.300 | social wealth.

00:11:00.180 | You could invest it into working on your purpose,

00:11:03.220 | to working on growth, mental wealth.

00:11:05.380 | You could invest it into physical pursuits,

00:11:07.820 | physical wealth.

00:11:08.660 | You could invest it into financial wealth,

00:11:09.900 | into investing, into building things.

00:11:12.220 | And so the point is that time wealth unlocks

00:11:14.660 | several of the others,

00:11:15.540 | and so it sort of runs alongside all of them.

00:11:17.900 | But then the ones that you choose for your life,

00:11:21.060 | it doesn't matter what I choose.

00:11:22.580 | It doesn't matter what Chris chooses.

00:11:24.220 | What matters is what you care about.

00:11:26.300 | And what you focus on or prioritize

00:11:28.600 | during any one season of your life will change.

00:11:31.940 | So when you're in your 20s and 30s,

00:11:34.120 | it is a great time to focus on and prioritize

00:11:36.820 | building a base of financial wealth

00:11:38.540 | that you can compound for the rest of your life.

00:11:40.800 | But in your 30s and 40s, when your kids are young,

00:11:43.500 | you may want to set some of those things on autopilot

00:11:46.820 | and step back and really be present with your kids.

00:11:49.700 | Focus on social wealth during that window of your life.

00:11:52.660 | Then when they're grown up and they're back,

00:11:54.700 | you may wanna lean back in heavily into your purpose,

00:11:57.580 | into working on building financial wealth,

00:11:59.380 | building a business, doing those kinds of things.

00:12:01.820 | The point is that the seasons of your life come and go,

00:12:05.020 | and how you think about balancing these different things

00:12:07.580 | and prioritizing and focusing on them will change.

00:12:11.000 | But along the whole journey,

00:12:12.620 | you cannot turn off any one area.

00:12:15.760 | The traditional school of thought on all of these things

00:12:18.020 | has been this like on-off switch methodology.

00:12:20.580 | I fundamentally think that is broken.

00:12:23.060 | All of these areas of your life exist on dimmer switches.

00:12:26.200 | And when you turn one way up, that's great,

00:12:28.300 | you're gonna focus on one.

00:12:29.620 | You cannot turn the others off.

00:12:31.840 | You can have them turn down,

00:12:33.460 | which means they're more in maintenance mode,

00:12:35.660 | but you still need to invest a little bit in them

00:12:38.540 | to compound it to the future.

00:12:39.780 | You still need to send the text to the friend

00:12:41.740 | to let them know you're thinking about them.

00:12:43.160 | You still need to go for the 30-minute walk

00:12:45.320 | to make sure your health is moving forward.

00:12:47.380 | You still need to find the five minutes of space

00:12:49.860 | and stillness to make sure your brain

00:12:51.980 | and your mind is sound and sharp.

00:12:54.180 | Those tiny little investments compound

00:12:56.460 | as well as any financial investment,

00:12:58.360 | but you need to think of it that way along that journey.

00:13:00.800 | Okay, so that's time wealth.

00:13:02.840 | That's why it was first, why it's important.

00:13:05.000 | It's the one I'm focused on right now,

00:13:07.120 | but let's talk about social wealth.

00:13:09.080 | Social wealth is all about your depth

00:13:12.960 | and breadth of connection to the people around you,

00:13:16.720 | both your kind of inner circle of like true deep,

00:13:19.660 | what I call darkest hour friends,

00:13:22.440 | and then the broader circles of sort of looser connections,

00:13:25.340 | your broader connection to communities

00:13:27.060 | that extend beyond yourself, spiritual communities,

00:13:30.260 | local, regional communities, et cetera.

00:13:32.740 | And then social wealth is also about

00:13:34.420 | how you interact with others around wealth,

00:13:37.620 | the idea of status and how it plays into your life.

00:13:40.300 | Building social wealth is fundamentally

00:13:41.980 | what allows you to enjoy any of the other types of wealth.

00:13:45.140 | No one dreams of having a private jet and being alone.

00:13:49.020 | No one wants to have a whole ton of money

00:13:51.220 | and no one to dote upon,

00:13:52.640 | no one to create experiences with.

00:13:54.400 | Building social wealth is fundamentally at the core

00:13:57.440 | of living a happy, healthy, wealthy existence.

00:14:00.000 | There is scientific evidence

00:14:01.540 | that the strength of your relationships

00:14:03.640 | is the single greatest predictor

00:14:05.320 | of your health as you age over time.

00:14:08.200 | The Harvard study of adult development

00:14:09.760 | followed the lives of 2000 plus people over 85 plus years.

00:14:13.480 | They found that the single greatest predictor

00:14:15.480 | of physical health at age 80

00:14:17.920 | was relationship satisfaction at age 50.

00:14:20.960 | It was more impactful than whether they smoked or drank,

00:14:23.840 | their blood pressure, cholesterol,

00:14:25.180 | how you felt about your relationships

00:14:27.160 | was the single greatest predictor of your healthy aging.

00:14:30.380 | So we know these things are important,

00:14:32.380 | and yet most of us will not invest in relationships

00:14:35.140 | in the same way we will invest

00:14:36.540 | in making more and more money.

00:14:38.160 | We need to change that.

00:14:39.160 | We need to flip the script.

00:14:40.100 | It needs to be just as important.

00:14:41.700 | It needs to be that same daily investment

00:14:43.900 | that you think about compounding into the future.

00:14:46.380 | - And do you think a lot of this change over time

00:14:49.340 | comes from what really happens in our lives

00:14:52.060 | when we have kids?

00:14:52.900 | We both have young kids.

00:14:54.140 | I feel like our entire social life has completely switched

00:14:58.180 | where now I'm like, where is the time to go out with friends?

00:15:02.340 | Where's the time to go on trips

00:15:04.740 | to go see people at events and that kind of stuff?

00:15:06.900 | Because you've got kids, there's lots of demands.

00:15:09.780 | You value sleeping more.

00:15:11.620 | You have to spend more time on your physical wealth

00:15:14.420 | than you probably did in your 20s.

00:15:16.860 | How do you think outside of your immediate family,

00:15:20.580 | your social wealth should be prioritized,

00:15:22.920 | and how do you do that in a world post-kids?

00:15:27.920 | - Yeah, I tend to think that life follows

00:15:29.720 | these natural sort of like ballooning phases

00:15:32.280 | where you kind of come in and then you balloon back out,

00:15:35.160 | you come back in and then balloon back out,

00:15:36.980 | depending on the different phases.

00:15:39.020 | When you're young, you're very much expanding that balloon

00:15:42.100 | of your social networks, the people you're meeting.

00:15:44.100 | In your 20s, your early career years,

00:15:46.660 | you're building these networks,

00:15:47.840 | you're building these relationships

00:15:49.480 | that are going to kind of continue to grow

00:15:52.060 | over the course of your life.

00:15:53.300 | But then as you have kids, you sort of narrow that a bit

00:15:56.100 | as you focus in on those really,

00:15:58.500 | really important core relationships.

00:16:00.100 | And then as they get older,

00:16:00.940 | I think it starts to expand again.

00:16:02.300 | I see my parents now expanding

00:16:03.960 | and spreading their wings again.

00:16:05.460 | Look, I think that fundamentally,

00:16:07.060 | the separation between depth and breadth

00:16:09.500 | that I articulate in the book is the important point here.

00:16:12.100 | You have your few core relationships,

00:16:14.220 | they're truly deep relationships.

00:16:15.820 | People that will truly be there for you

00:16:17.380 | across different seasons.

00:16:19.380 | From each kind of season of life,

00:16:21.280 | I tend to think you get a few people

00:16:23.020 | that you end up carrying with you

00:16:24.220 | for the entirety of this journey that you're on.

00:16:26.300 | You pick up a few people along the way.

00:16:27.860 | You have the earliest ones,

00:16:28.860 | which are your parents and your siblings maybe,

00:16:30.780 | and then you maybe pick up a partner

00:16:32.420 | who's gonna be there and maybe a few friends

00:16:34.060 | at each phase of life.

00:16:35.180 | That is your depth.

00:16:36.140 | Those are the people that you can call

00:16:37.420 | at three in the morning when you have a problem

00:16:39.060 | and they'll show up for you.

00:16:39.900 | The people that are there for you during your darkest hour.

00:16:42.980 | Then you have breadth,

00:16:44.580 | which that is what sort of creates this fluctuating nature.

00:16:47.620 | If you have time to invest in these broader social networks

00:16:50.500 | or professional networks or spiritual networks, you will.

00:16:54.780 | And that creates this incredible texture

00:16:57.180 | and kind of reach to something

00:16:58.820 | that extends beyond yourself.

00:17:00.100 | This feeling of connection to something

00:17:01.500 | that is bigger than you,

00:17:02.620 | that is bigger than your local network.

00:17:05.480 | But that is not a necessity for happiness

00:17:10.220 | or fulfillment in the moment.

00:17:11.660 | Having those few deep, meaningful relationships

00:17:14.540 | that you can call upon during times of need,

00:17:16.980 | that is really what fights off the feeling of loneliness.

00:17:20.860 | But when you are sort of during one of those growth phases,

00:17:24.220 | when you have the flexibility to invest in it,

00:17:26.540 | building upon that broader network of connections

00:17:29.020 | is a really meaningful pursuit.

00:17:31.140 | - And have you thought about processes

00:17:32.940 | or ways that you could kind of map this out

00:17:34.540 | to see where you're at?

00:17:35.700 | - Yeah, I mean, the quiz that we talked about

00:17:38.580 | has a good approach for kind of thinking about

00:17:41.660 | where you are today.

00:17:42.980 | In the book, I also lay out

00:17:44.620 | something I call a relationship map,

00:17:46.660 | which is sort of a two by two matrix

00:17:48.340 | for all my nerds out there.

00:17:50.020 | Mapping your existing kind of relationship ecosystem

00:17:53.100 | and thinking about where people exist on this map

00:17:56.020 | of the frequency of your contact with them

00:17:59.300 | from infrequent to frequent

00:18:01.100 | and the health of that relationship

00:18:02.740 | from sort of toxic to very supportive.

00:18:05.560 | And it gives you a visual perspective

00:18:07.300 | on what are the relationships

00:18:08.860 | that I really wanna be leaning into

00:18:10.780 | and what are the relationships

00:18:11.900 | that I should be leaning away from

00:18:13.860 | in order to live a happier life?

00:18:15.460 | - Yeah, one thing I've been playing with,

00:18:17.140 | and I'll probably do an entire episode

00:18:18.660 | after I finish the playing phase,

00:18:21.020 | is there's a couple of apps

00:18:22.780 | that attempt to map out all of your relationships.

00:18:26.940 | Clay is one, Dex is one.

00:18:29.740 | I'm open to others if you have them.

00:18:31.460 | And I've been going through them

00:18:32.980 | trying to understand how I could use them

00:18:35.700 | to better tackle this aspect of wealth.

00:18:39.940 | And one of the things I did,

00:18:41.580 | which is separate from those,

00:18:42.660 | is I have like a contact list on my iPhone

00:18:46.500 | that's basically called like walking calls.

00:18:48.940 | And anytime I'm just, I don't have anything to do,

00:18:51.740 | I'm going on a walk, I just go into this.

00:18:53.460 | And there's like 30 people there

00:18:55.220 | that I like mentally wanna make sure

00:18:57.100 | that I stay in touch with.

00:18:58.260 | I just scroll through it.

00:18:59.180 | I'm like, "When's the last time I talked to this person?"

00:19:01.580 | I think technology will get even better at like,

00:19:03.260 | "Hey, it's been six months since you talked to this person.

00:19:06.100 | "Maybe you should reach out."

00:19:07.460 | But any other tactics you have for kind of staying in touch

00:19:11.300 | or kind of prioritizing people?

00:19:14.220 | I have a silly one.

00:19:15.060 | So I love all these tools, the personal CRMs.

00:19:17.540 | I haven't seen Dex before, but I've seen Clay.

00:19:20.380 | I always run the balance and the tension that I feel

00:19:23.460 | is between making this feel natural and real

00:19:26.100 | and sort of like systematizing it and optimizing it

00:19:29.180 | to the point where it no longer feels

00:19:30.500 | like a genuine relationship.

00:19:31.980 | Like I am not big on the word networking

00:19:34.580 | because it feels transactional to me, it feels fake.

00:19:36.900 | When what I really wanna do is build genuine connection,

00:19:39.460 | I want to give with no expectation of return.

00:19:41.900 | So I wanna find something in a way to operationalize

00:19:44.380 | these things in my life that feels natural.

00:19:46.300 | One of the funny ways that I've done that

00:19:48.300 | is by using Apple's sort of like memories

00:19:51.340 | or like for you feature with pictures.

00:19:53.420 | So every single week,

00:19:55.940 | I'll pop into my like iPhone photo feature

00:19:58.660 | where it pops up memories from your phone

00:20:00.940 | over the last several years.

00:20:02.620 | And I have a practice where when there's a picture

00:20:05.260 | with someone, I text it to them.

00:20:06.980 | I just send it to them and say like,

00:20:08.380 | "Oh, good times," or something like that.

00:20:10.620 | It 100% of the time ends up sparking

00:20:13.580 | a quick catch-up interaction with someone

00:20:16.260 | that I likely haven't spoken to or connected with in a while.

00:20:19.380 | And it's just like a simple trigger

00:20:21.180 | that reminds me to do that, to reach out to the person

00:20:23.940 | because it's so easy and it's so accessible

00:20:26.100 | and it's sitting right there.

00:20:27.180 | And I have found that to be just like an awesome practice,

00:20:29.620 | very simple way of building social wealth

00:20:32.820 | and keeping in touch with these people

00:20:34.100 | that you've clearly created cool memories with in your life.

00:20:37.620 | Yeah, I mean, mine is probably less millennial or Gen Z.

00:20:41.340 | I literally just call people and half the times you're like,

00:20:43.620 | "Why is someone calling me?"

00:20:45.420 | Random phone call, but I don't know.

00:20:47.100 | I just find I'm like,

00:20:47.940 | "Hey, I just haven't talked to you in a while."

00:20:50.420 | Yeah, it's like taking some of the idle minutes

00:20:54.220 | that you have.

00:20:55.300 | Sometimes I find myself just driving

00:20:57.300 | and I just call someone, do the same thing

00:20:58.980 | or like send a voice note,

00:21:00.260 | something little where you let someone know

00:21:02.940 | that you were thinking about them.

00:21:04.340 | And again, to the point of like investing in these areas

00:21:07.660 | the same way as financial wealth,

00:21:09.180 | that compounds into the future.

00:21:11.340 | Like that person, you were building a relationship.

00:21:14.220 | You were like putting a penny in the jar

00:21:16.580 | that's going to compound and stack up

00:21:18.220 | over a longer period of time.

00:21:19.620 | Is there something you think most people are getting wrong

00:21:21.780 | or making mistakes when it comes to building social wealth

00:21:24.620 | beyond what you said about

00:21:26.300 | focusing on transactional networking?

00:21:28.500 | The thing people get wrong

00:21:29.740 | is thinking that more is better with social wealth.

00:21:32.860 | The tendency is to say like,

00:21:33.980 | "Well, it's because money like more is better

00:21:35.940 | is the mindset people have had."

00:21:37.260 | And everyone's wired differently around this.

00:21:39.980 | One person might feel lonely

00:21:41.740 | if they have only a hundred friends.

00:21:44.860 | Another person might feel lonely

00:21:46.220 | as long if they only have one friend.

00:21:48.660 | Like what social wealth means to different people

00:21:51.660 | will be different

00:21:52.500 | because you have a natural level of introversion

00:21:54.900 | or extroversion and you need to figure out

00:21:56.900 | what level of connection fills your cup.

00:21:59.500 | It doesn't matter if it's the same.

00:22:00.980 | I am more extroverted than my wife.

00:22:03.860 | My wife really just needs her like very close network

00:22:08.260 | of a few friends and family

00:22:10.100 | to feel extraordinarily socially wealthy.

00:22:12.980 | I need a bigger group of people.

00:22:14.940 | Like I need to feel like I can reach out

00:22:16.980 | to different people who have expertise

00:22:18.540 | on different things and problems that I'm facing.

00:22:20.540 | And that's what makes me feel good,

00:22:22.100 | but it's different for all of us.

00:22:23.580 | So figuring out your sort of natural set point

00:22:26.100 | or baseline, if you will,

00:22:27.260 | that you're kind of working towards is important.

00:22:30.820 | And then last, it wouldn't be all the hacks

00:22:32.300 | if I didn't ask you.

00:22:33.140 | You've got 31 social wealth hacks.

00:22:35.340 | Any favorites that you wanna drop here?

00:22:37.820 | And then obviously people can go read all of them

00:22:39.620 | in the book.

00:22:41.180 | Let's see.

00:22:42.020 | I have this anti-networking guide in the book,

00:22:44.500 | which is this idea of like

00:22:45.780 | how to build genuine relationships.

00:22:47.940 | And in there, I share this whole idea

00:22:49.620 | of finding value aligned rooms.

00:22:52.180 | What I mean by that is people often complain

00:22:55.300 | that it's hard to make friends as adults.

00:22:56.980 | You're like, "Well, when I was in school,

00:22:58.180 | "it was easy to make friends.

00:22:59.100 | "And now as an adult, I don't know how to do that."

00:23:01.420 | The idea that I have here is

00:23:03.860 | you know your kind of core set of values.

00:23:06.020 | Map them out.

00:23:06.860 | Things you care about, things you're interested in,

00:23:08.500 | things that are exciting to you.

00:23:10.500 | Find rooms that self-select for other people

00:23:14.100 | that have that similar set of interests or values.

00:23:17.100 | So if I'm really into health,

00:23:18.940 | a room that has a lot of people interested in health

00:23:21.740 | is like a farmer's market.

00:23:23.340 | That's a great place where I could go

00:23:25.140 | and have cool conversations with people

00:23:26.740 | that are interested in similar things to me.

00:23:28.500 | The gym, another example of that.

00:23:30.420 | If I'm really into dogs, I'm really into animals,

00:23:32.660 | going to a dog park is a great example

00:23:34.620 | of getting into a place like that.

00:23:35.860 | If I love the arts, going to art gallery openings

00:23:39.180 | or going to book clubs in your local community,

00:23:41.340 | going to museum openings,

00:23:42.620 | those kind of things are going to place you into situations

00:23:45.300 | where you are highly likely to meet other people

00:23:47.300 | that are excited about similar things to you.

00:23:49.540 | That is how you make friends as an adult.

00:23:51.420 | But you need to think about it that way.

00:23:52.740 | You need to like play the game on easy mode a little bit

00:23:55.860 | when it comes to finding those people.

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00:25:10.740 | from business experts on this show.

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00:26:16.500 | One of my favorites was just this obvious thing.

00:26:19.780 | Say exactly what you mean.

00:26:20.980 | No one, not even your family, can read your mind.

00:26:22.900 | And it's something that I feel like I need to repeat

00:26:24.740 | because there are so many times in life

00:26:27.340 | where you're with people,

00:26:28.500 | and you're just assuming they know what you're thinking.

00:26:30.860 | And it's just so easy to just tell them.

00:26:33.300 | And if anyone has friends from cultures

00:26:35.940 | where people are way more direct,

00:26:37.700 | I have a couple of friends from Israel

00:26:39.060 | where it's like every single time,

00:26:40.180 | they just tell you exactly what they're thinking.

00:26:41.740 | I'm like, "Oh, isn't this nice?"

00:26:42.860 | And then sometimes we play these guessing games

00:26:45.060 | in the States where it's like,

00:26:46.380 | "Let's see if someone can figure out what I really want."

00:26:49.180 | - Yeah, I mean, the other one is just

00:26:50.660 | never avoid hard conversations with people you care about.

00:26:53.780 | When you avoid a hard conversation,

00:26:55.300 | you're just taking on a debt

00:26:57.180 | that has to be repaid with interest

00:26:59.660 | at a date in the future.

00:27:01.220 | Time doesn't heal anything when it comes to relationships.

00:27:03.820 | It just makes things worse.

00:27:05.340 | So if you have to have a hard conversation, have it now.

00:27:08.740 | Don't delay having that for the future.

00:27:10.860 | - I love that.

00:27:11.700 | Okay, and delaying it can cause a lot of mental stress.

00:27:13.900 | So let's talk about mental wealth.

00:27:15.580 | - Yeah, so mental wealth is about a few things.

00:27:19.420 | Mental wealth is about your purpose.

00:27:22.060 | It's about engaging in growth,

00:27:24.460 | growth as a human being, growth of the mind.

00:27:27.420 | And then it's about creating space, creating stillness,

00:27:31.620 | creating an ability to wrestle

00:27:34.140 | with the bigger questions in life,

00:27:35.980 | these unanswerable questions that we face.

00:27:38.140 | Mental wealth is such an interesting one

00:27:39.780 | because it's a story and a kind of arc

00:27:42.460 | that we can all relate to, which is the hero's journey,

00:27:44.700 | which we've seen throughout history.

00:27:46.220 | And it's something that we all connect to.

00:27:47.540 | It's the reason it's such a popular movie arc

00:27:49.700 | or television show arc

00:27:51.020 | is because we all see ourselves in that story arc.

00:27:54.180 | It's like the pursuit of some core purpose,

00:27:57.380 | some sacred duty that you go off into pursue

00:27:59.740 | and you face trials and tribulations

00:28:01.660 | and experience growth from that journey

00:28:03.580 | only to see yourself change as part of the process.

00:28:06.740 | That is the journey we all find ourselves on.

00:28:09.620 | But oftentimes we lose sight of that.

00:28:11.460 | We get kind of stuck with the shiny object

00:28:14.020 | of trying to make money

00:28:15.340 | and we lose sight of this thing of curiosity,

00:28:18.300 | of purpose, of growth,

00:28:19.980 | of creating that stillness in our life.

00:28:22.020 | And so finding ways to cultivate mental wealth

00:28:24.380 | on a daily basis,

00:28:25.580 | tiny investments that you can be making

00:28:27.380 | to allow yourself that space,

00:28:29.420 | to search for that purpose, to pursue your curiosity,

00:28:32.300 | to engage in growth-oriented activities,

00:28:35.500 | to have a growth mindset,

00:28:36.820 | that really cultivates a life of abundant mental wealth.

00:28:40.140 | - I think one of the biggest criticisms

00:28:42.260 | or follow-ups to conversations like the one we just had

00:28:45.940 | or what you've just said

00:28:47.460 | is talking to people who are like,

00:28:49.380 | "I just don't know what the thing is.

00:28:51.820 | Even if I had the time to spend on it,

00:28:54.540 | I haven't found that purpose,

00:28:56.260 | that thing that I love doing."

00:28:57.660 | What advice do you have for those people?

00:28:59.260 | - The idea that your work has to be your purpose

00:29:02.340 | is one of the worst lies you've been told.

00:29:04.380 | Purpose has been hijacked by hustle culture.

00:29:07.660 | And basically, you've been told

00:29:09.540 | that if you don't find your purpose in your work,

00:29:12.060 | you are lost and you're hopeless.

00:29:15.380 | And that's not really true.

00:29:17.460 | If you do find purpose in your work,

00:29:19.980 | that's great and I'm really happy for you.

00:29:21.780 | But the reality is that most people won't.

00:29:23.900 | Most people, the best case

00:29:25.740 | and what you should work towards

00:29:27.100 | is a world where you have a higher order purpose

00:29:29.780 | for this season of your life,

00:29:31.380 | and you are able to connect to that while you are at work.

00:29:34.260 | It doesn't need to be the same thing,

00:29:36.060 | but you can connect to it.

00:29:37.220 | I'll give you an example.

00:29:38.500 | During the research process for the book,

00:29:39.940 | I had a conversation with a man who works at a factory

00:29:43.180 | and he basically assembles widgets

00:29:44.860 | for eight to 10 hours a day, like on an assembly line.

00:29:47.940 | He doesn't like his work at all, right?

00:29:49.840 | Like he's doing a manual task,

00:29:51.500 | very monotonous over and over again.

00:29:53.780 | But every single day when he goes to work,

00:29:56.460 | he connects to a higher order purpose,

00:29:58.780 | which is to be the father that he didn't feel like he had,

00:30:01.980 | to be a provider for his family.

00:30:04.220 | So every day when he goes to work,

00:30:05.580 | even while he's doing something

00:30:06.740 | that he doesn't intrinsically enjoy,

00:30:08.260 | that's not his purpose,

00:30:09.900 | he's connecting it to the higher order purpose

00:30:12.380 | of what he's trying to do as a human being.

00:30:14.460 | So he has energy for it.

00:30:15.700 | He shows up with a good attitude for it

00:30:17.260 | because he knows it's in service of something much bigger.

00:30:20.420 | We can all do that.

00:30:21.780 | We can all identify what is that thing

00:30:24.420 | during this season of our life

00:30:25.820 | that is our higher order purpose.

00:30:27.680 | Maybe it's providing for our family.

00:30:29.700 | Maybe it's engaging with our love of the arts.

00:30:32.820 | And we know that working in a job that pays the bills

00:30:35.740 | allows us to experience and appreciate the arts

00:30:38.140 | or to go travel to see history

00:30:39.780 | and historical artworks around the world.

00:30:42.260 | So it doesn't have to be,

00:30:43.660 | oh, I don't love the thing that I'm doing in my work.

00:30:46.280 | And so I'm lost.

00:30:47.740 | I need to keep going on this endless search.

00:30:49.960 | It might just be that your job is your job

00:30:52.140 | and it works in service

00:30:53.620 | of some higher order purpose in your life.

00:30:56.340 | - I would also go one step further and say,

00:30:58.260 | there are times where the job

00:31:01.180 | that feels like it's more aligned with your purpose

00:31:04.340 | might end up consuming your life to the point

00:31:07.100 | that it actually negates that purpose.

00:31:09.600 | So I have, I'll say friend or family member

00:31:13.260 | to kind of leave it vague,

00:31:14.180 | but they've taken a path of like not pursuing a job

00:31:17.900 | that they necessarily love

00:31:20.100 | or is aligned with what they care about most in the world

00:31:23.100 | because they're able to have a lot of free time after work

00:31:26.980 | where they're not consumed by thinking about work.

00:31:29.340 | Whereas as you and I probably know,

00:31:32.180 | when you're doing that thing that you love for work,

00:31:34.740 | sometimes work consumes you.

00:31:36.100 | Like you think about it nonstop all day.

00:31:38.820 | And as much as I love what I do,

00:31:41.060 | I also wanna spend time with my kids.

00:31:42.740 | And sometimes it's, they're at odds

00:31:45.220 | because the thing I'm doing for work,

00:31:46.540 | I love so much that it makes it hard to step away.

00:31:50.260 | And I'm sometimes jealous of people

00:31:52.460 | who are just so easily able to step away from work,

00:31:55.140 | not think about it on the weekends,

00:31:56.500 | not think about it at night.

00:31:57.540 | And I'm not saying I would trade it,

00:31:59.380 | but there's definitely some benefit to that style of work.

00:32:03.660 | - I have this conversation all the time with people.

00:32:06.460 | So I love that you raised it,

00:32:07.620 | which is this idea that ambition is a double-edged sword.

00:32:12.580 | Extreme ambition can actually manifest as a curse at times

00:32:16.060 | because you are constantly in the pursuit of some thing

00:32:21.060 | and you are unable to disconnect.

00:32:22.700 | And so while it ends up creating some incredible outcomes,

00:32:26.100 | it also has a real cost.

00:32:27.620 | Extreme ambition has a tax to be paid in your life

00:32:30.580 | from having that.

00:32:31.460 | I often kind of muse on the fact of

00:32:33.260 | whether like there is an optimal,

00:32:34.780 | a Goldilocks amount of ambition where you like have enough

00:32:37.620 | that it's kind of pushing you to grow and do things,

00:32:39.700 | but not so much that it's making you not appreciate

00:32:43.020 | the present moment and the present quality

00:32:44.940 | that you have in your life.

00:32:46.180 | - We talked a lot about mental wealth.

00:32:47.580 | Where do things like stress, anxiety, and burnout

00:32:50.260 | fall in the mental wealth framework?

00:32:52.980 | - All within this idea of creating space in your life.

00:32:56.460 | So space is derived from this idea from Viktor Frankl,

00:33:01.020 | who said that basically your power exists in the space

00:33:04.320 | that you can create between stimulus and response.

00:33:07.340 | Most of us live in this immediate sort of loop

00:33:10.620 | where stimulus is constantly coming in

00:33:12.620 | and response is constantly going out.

00:33:14.320 | Everything's urgent,

00:33:15.200 | you're constantly responding to things.

00:33:16.540 | You have no space to slow down, to zoom out,

00:33:19.660 | to contemplate, to wrestle with questions

00:33:21.900 | internally, externally, with a higher power,

00:33:24.300 | whatever it might be.

00:33:25.300 | And that gets you into this endless loop of anxiety,

00:33:28.380 | of stress, of poor mental health,

00:33:31.020 | deteriorating mental health,

00:33:32.380 | because you're not able to stop and pause

00:33:34.700 | and create that space to breathe.

00:33:38.500 | Finding rituals to create that space

00:33:40.820 | is the way that we get out of that loop.

00:33:43.320 | I also should mention,

00:33:44.460 | the goal is not to eliminate stress from your life.

00:33:48.100 | This is like a common misconception, right?

00:33:50.420 | The goal is to have meaningful stress,

00:33:53.700 | to have stress over things that actually matter,

00:33:56.220 | that you actually care about in life.

00:33:58.500 | If you have stress because the thing that you're working on

00:34:01.100 | is extremely meaningful to you,

00:34:03.100 | that is not bad stress.

00:34:04.740 | That is not stress to be eliminated.

00:34:06.020 | Stress to be eliminated is the stress over silly things

00:34:08.620 | that can be fixed very easily

00:34:10.220 | or that you don't need to worry about as much.

00:34:12.060 | That is, I think, a common misconception

00:34:15.060 | that we need to sort of rid ourselves of.

00:34:18.180 | - Or I would say, if you're focused on something,

00:34:20.180 | you deeply care about it,

00:34:21.820 | but you let it get to a point

00:34:22.940 | that that stress is debilitating,

00:34:24.700 | that would probably also fall in the unhealthy camp.

00:34:27.580 | - I would agree with that, yes.

00:34:29.300 | - Yeah, I love that each one of these sections of wealth

00:34:31.900 | has a bunch of hacks in here,

00:34:33.260 | because one that I thought I hadn't heard anyone really say,

00:34:38.260 | which was about rereading books.

00:34:40.420 | And so one of my favorites was just this concept of,

00:34:42.660 | if there's a book that meaningfully affected your life,

00:34:44.860 | go reread it later,

00:34:46.360 | because it might completely be a different book.

00:34:50.100 | I've experienced that as a podcast episode.

00:34:52.820 | So I've gone back and listened to two-year-old episodes

00:34:55.340 | and been like, "Wow, I learned so much

00:34:56.780 | even though I'd already done this episode."

00:34:58.660 | But for some reason,

00:34:59.860 | I'd never really thought about doing it with books.

00:35:02.100 | Any other kind of quick hits in that set of hacks

00:35:05.940 | that you share on mental wealth that you wanna drop here?

00:35:09.220 | - I think that's a good one.

00:35:10.500 | One of my absolute favorites,

00:35:12.860 | and this is a collaboration with Susan Cain,

00:35:15.060 | who's one of my favorite authors.

00:35:16.140 | She wrote the book "Quiet."

00:35:17.380 | It's about introverts and their power

00:35:18.940 | in an extroverted world,

00:35:20.300 | is the secret to life

00:35:22.780 | is to put yourself in the right lighting.

00:35:25.620 | For some, it's a Broadway spotlight,

00:35:27.620 | for others, a lamplit desk.

00:35:29.580 | Use your natural powers of persistence,

00:35:31.580 | concentration, and insight to do work you love

00:35:34.180 | and work that matters.

00:35:35.340 | Solve problems, make art, think deeply.

00:35:38.200 | - I like that.

00:35:40.420 | Great, great, great ending.

00:35:42.020 | And let's talk about physical wealth.

00:35:45.340 | - My personal favorite.

00:35:47.660 | No, physical wealth is all about your health and vitality.

00:35:51.900 | It is about your physical health.

00:35:53.820 | And we've heard the phrase, right?

00:35:55.260 | Health is wealth.

00:35:56.620 | And it's very true.

00:35:57.580 | The investments that you make in your physical health

00:36:01.220 | are going to compound in your life.

00:36:03.780 | And physical wealth,

00:36:05.960 | because it is the most natural type,

00:36:10.080 | i.e. it is part of your biology,

00:36:12.500 | also is the most naturally entropic,

00:36:15.020 | meaning whether or not you invest in it

00:36:17.020 | is going to deteriorate.

00:36:18.120 | What your best hope is

00:36:20.380 | is that you slow the rate of that deterioration

00:36:22.500 | through daily actions that you take.

00:36:24.120 | But through daily actions and daily disciplined investment,

00:36:27.780 | you can slow the rate of that decay

00:36:29.680 | so that you can enjoy more of your years

00:36:31.700 | so that you can have a great health span,

00:36:33.380 | as Peter Attia talks about.

00:36:34.700 | And the question that I ask in the book to frame this up,

00:36:37.740 | the big question is,

00:36:39.540 | will you be dancing at your 80th birthday party?

00:36:43.100 | If you imagine your 80th birthday

00:36:44.860 | and your family and friends all show up to celebrate you

00:36:47.360 | and the dance floor opens and your favorite song comes on,

00:36:50.340 | based on your current actions

00:36:52.120 | and the trajectory that it has you on,

00:36:54.060 | will you be able to get up

00:36:55.660 | and be on the dance floor dancing with your loved ones

00:36:58.020 | at your 80th birthday party?

00:36:59.740 | And if not--

00:37:00.580 | - And not the middle school sway dance, right?

00:37:02.580 | Like a really big-- - Not the sway,

00:37:03.420 | like some serious dance.

00:37:04.700 | Yeah, serious dance.

00:37:05.940 | And if not,

00:37:07.140 | what actions do you need to start taking in the present

00:37:09.700 | to make sure that you are building towards a future

00:37:11.400 | where you are able to do that?

00:37:13.260 | And physical wealth really comes down

00:37:15.160 | to just these three pillars

00:37:16.460 | of movement, nutrition, and recovery.

00:37:18.760 | Taking on the boring basic like level one

00:37:23.300 | within each of those gets you 80 to 90% of the benefit.

00:37:27.060 | We're bombarded by the most complex,

00:37:30.100 | crazy regimens around physical wealth.

00:37:33.060 | And it's because it's what gets clicks on social media.

00:37:35.680 | The craziest stuff is what generates clicks,

00:37:38.060 | when in reality, the most basic stuff is what works.

00:37:41.360 | With movement, level one,

00:37:42.940 | just move your body for 30 minutes a day.

00:37:44.980 | I don't care if you're walking, jogging, skiing, lifting,

00:37:47.820 | dancing, whatever you like, swimming, just move.

00:37:50.940 | For nutrition, just eat whole unprocessed foods,

00:37:54.580 | 80% of your meals.

00:37:56.180 | If that's all you do,

00:37:57.020 | that is a great start in the nutrition bucket.

00:37:58.940 | That's about 17 out of 21 meals in a week.

00:38:02.340 | And then recovery, just sleep seven hours a night,

00:38:05.120 | nothing else.

00:38:05.960 | You don't need fancy blue light blockers.

00:38:07.260 | You don't need sunlight in the morning.

00:38:08.780 | You don't need any of those things.

00:38:09.700 | If you do those three things,

00:38:11.260 | you're ahead of 90% of the population

00:38:13.640 | and you're going to be moving things forward.

00:38:15.340 | You don't see those,

00:38:16.700 | that type of like boring basic wisdom espoused

00:38:19.780 | on the internet simply because it doesn't get clicks.

00:38:22.940 | You can't sell that, right?

00:38:23.960 | Like I cannot sell you an ebook on building your health

00:38:26.840 | that just says, you know, move your body for 30 days,

00:38:29.260 | eat whole unprocessed foods and sleep, right?

00:38:31.740 | It would be a very short ebook,

00:38:33.580 | not particularly interesting one, but it just works.

00:38:36.300 | Like the boring basics, just plain work.

00:38:39.900 | - And for people who have that dialed in

00:38:42.320 | and still maybe feel like physical wealth

00:38:44.580 | is an area they want to focus on,

00:38:46.260 | how do you think about the next step?

00:38:47.900 | - So I lay it out in the book as sort of like a video game.

00:38:50.540 | So you kind of have levels to physical wealth

00:38:52.700 | that you are going to graduate up.

00:38:54.660 | So if you are already doing the boring basics,

00:38:56.660 | you graduate to level two and level three.

00:38:58.740 | And you know, if you want to try to become Brian Johnson,

00:39:01.220 | I'm sure there are way more, you know,

00:39:03.540 | detailed crazy levels above that.

00:39:05.700 | I would think of level three as having a movement regimen

00:39:09.540 | that includes both cardiovascular training

00:39:12.140 | and resistance training, meaning weight training.

00:39:14.300 | So you're kind of hitting all of the major buckets on that.

00:39:18.280 | With your nutrition, I would think of it

00:39:20.220 | as the vast, vast majority of your calories

00:39:23.380 | are coming from single ingredient, whole unprocessed foods.

00:39:27.260 | You're limiting alcohol, you're hydrating enough,

00:39:29.460 | you're making sure you're getting

00:39:30.420 | your micronutrients as well.

00:39:32.420 | That's largely from supplementation

00:39:34.180 | because they don't occur naturally in your body.

00:39:36.700 | And then with recovery, you're making sure

00:39:38.920 | you're getting eight hours of sleep a night.

00:39:40.460 | And you're probably taking on a few other recovery methods,

00:39:44.020 | whether it's sauna or cold plunge, you know,

00:39:46.560 | red light therapy, some of these breathing protocols,

00:39:49.020 | other things that are helping you with your recovery.

00:39:51.580 | That is sort of level three, where like beyond that,

00:39:54.700 | everything else is the last 1% of benefit.

00:39:57.260 | If you're doing that,

00:39:58.500 | you are at the top of the chain already,

00:40:00.420 | and you're doing great.

00:40:01.500 | - I didn't really ask this for each one.

00:40:03.540 | So maybe we could do a quick recap.

00:40:05.060 | Within each bucket, are there diagnostics

00:40:08.380 | that you look at?

00:40:09.240 | You know, when I think of health, I'm like,

00:40:10.480 | okay, you could look at your sleep score.

00:40:12.500 | How many hours of sleep you get is pretty straightforward.

00:40:15.540 | You know, you could go all the way to VO2 max.

00:40:17.580 | How do you think about level setting

00:40:19.540 | where you are within each area

00:40:21.520 | beyond kind of the questions you have?

00:40:24.420 | - I think the best diagnostic tool

00:40:25.980 | really is the wealth score quiz that we've laid out.

00:40:28.940 | Because some of these in relation to like physical wealth,

00:40:31.620 | there's very objective number metrics

00:40:33.940 | that you can put to it.

00:40:34.780 | I think, you know, both financial wealth

00:40:36.220 | and physical wealth sort of have that.

00:40:38.460 | With time wealth, with social wealth,

00:40:39.940 | and with mental wealth,

00:40:40.820 | a big goal of the book was to put forward a way

00:40:43.220 | for you to sort of quantify these things

00:40:45.100 | that are previously unquantifiable.

00:40:46.900 | And so you can put it in the show notes,

00:40:48.420 | but wealthscorequiz.com.

00:40:50.780 | You can take the online assessment.

00:40:52.340 | It's also in the book.

00:40:53.460 | And it'll give you this visual

00:40:55.240 | that you can kind of use as your baseline

00:40:56.860 | to go and build against.

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00:43:06.860 | All right, the one that we all know, financial wealth.

00:43:10.380 | How do you approach this, given that it's the thing

00:43:13.240 | we by all default think of as wealth?

00:43:15.380 | So the articulation that is really important in the book,

00:43:20.180 | and in my own perspective on financial wealth,

00:43:23.020 | is that it is all about defining what enough means to you.

00:43:28.020 | Defining clearly what your enough life looks like.

00:43:31.400 | And the reason that's so important is because

00:43:34.580 | expectations are your single greatest financial liability.

00:43:38.980 | If your expectations rise faster than your assets,

00:43:42.360 | you will never feel rich, you will never feel wealthy,

00:43:44.980 | you'll just keep chasing whatever more you've propped up

00:43:48.340 | as the place where your happiness lies.

00:43:50.860 | And that fundamentally comes down to having

00:43:54.060 | a clear definition of what it means

00:43:56.200 | to have enough financially.

00:43:58.220 | What that life actually looks like to you.

00:44:00.340 | Not a number, but more where you are.

00:44:03.140 | What you're doing, where you live, how you feel.

00:44:06.100 | You know, the amount of money you have in the bank account

00:44:08.380 | maybe factors into it, but it's much more about

00:44:10.540 | what the entire life picture looks like

00:44:13.180 | when you feel you have enough.

00:44:15.140 | And the whole goal there is to make it

00:44:17.420 | a clear image in your mind.

00:44:19.140 | So that when it naturally starts to increase and move up,

00:44:24.020 | which will happen because you're human,

00:44:25.740 | it's human biology, the hedonic treadmill.

00:44:28.560 | When that happens, it needs to be a conscious

00:44:31.480 | and rational upward movement,

00:44:33.640 | rather than a subconscious irrational one,

00:44:36.120 | which is the standard for all humans.

00:44:38.240 | So we need to frame that, we need to understand

00:44:40.560 | what that enough means financially,

00:44:42.940 | so that we can start to actually make that upward movement

00:44:46.160 | a clear conscious one.

00:44:47.960 | And what are the key factors that promote financial wealth?

00:44:51.960 | You know this, I'm a big fan of deconstructing

00:44:54.280 | complex things to like the most simple,

00:44:56.540 | boring version that exists.

00:44:58.580 | And when you think about the path

00:44:59.940 | to building financial wealth,

00:45:01.340 | there is really only one model that works,

00:45:04.540 | no matter what you see out there in the world.

00:45:06.660 | Every single person that has accumulated

00:45:08.420 | and built financial wealth has done some version

00:45:10.220 | of these three things, which is,

00:45:11.820 | they've grown their income, and that is cash inflows.

00:45:14.940 | That could come from primary employment,

00:45:16.660 | secondary employment, side hustles,

00:45:18.180 | or like windfall events from selling things.

00:45:21.160 | They've managed expenses, meaning their cash outflows.

00:45:24.980 | They've managed those over time

00:45:26.340 | to be below their cash inflows, which creates a gap,

00:45:30.900 | a gap between the inflows and the outflows.

00:45:33.200 | That gap is the single most important tool

00:45:35.700 | for building financial wealth,

00:45:36.860 | because you can take that gap and invest it,

00:45:39.620 | which is the third piece of this,

00:45:41.100 | into long-term compounders,

00:45:42.940 | into things that are going to compound value

00:45:45.380 | over long periods of time,

00:45:46.460 | whether that's boring basic things

00:45:48.500 | like stock market index funds,

00:45:50.020 | or whether that's fancier things

00:45:51.460 | like real estate investments, or crypto,

00:45:53.440 | or whatever it is that you're getting excited about.

00:45:56.140 | But that model of growing income alongside your skills,

00:46:00.880 | managing expenses so that you are living below your means

00:46:03.880 | and expanding and growing that gap,

00:46:05.940 | and then investing that gap into things that compound,

00:46:08.820 | fundamentally, that is all

00:46:10.140 | that building financial wealth comes down to.

00:46:12.780 | - And do you think there's a place

00:46:14.300 | that's often overlooked or underlooked?

00:46:16.480 | - I think that most people focus a bit too much

00:46:19.420 | on the managing of expenses

00:46:20.860 | and a bit too little on the growing of the cash inflows.

00:46:24.980 | The reason that's important

00:46:25.980 | is because you can only cut your expenses to zero,

00:46:28.420 | but you can grow your income infinitely, effectively.

00:46:31.060 | And so if you focus on the idea

00:46:32.940 | that income is a byproduct of value

00:46:35.060 | that you create for the world,

00:46:36.540 | value you create for others,

00:46:37.740 | you capture a portion of that value,

00:46:39.260 | that's how you make money.

00:46:40.900 | If you can grow the amount of value you create

00:46:43.340 | by stacking and compounding your skills that you can offer,

00:46:46.300 | and then leveraging those skills,

00:46:48.320 | you can make more and more money over periods of time,

00:46:50.500 | both from primary employment and from secondary employment.

00:46:53.580 | If you do that,

00:46:54.900 | and you manage your expenses to a rational level,

00:46:57.180 | you don't allow your expectations

00:46:58.860 | to run wild as you're growing,

00:47:00.740 | you will build a life of financial wealth,

00:47:02.820 | because you'll be able to just take those things,

00:47:04.460 | invest them into boring, basic stuff that compounds,

00:47:06.940 | and you'll create financial independence

00:47:08.500 | for yourself and your family.

00:47:09.860 | - A different way to say something similar,

00:47:11.580 | which is that on the expense management side,

00:47:14.500 | where you started with defining enough

00:47:16.900 | is way more important than thinking about it

00:47:19.040 | from a cutting standpoint,

00:47:20.240 | because naturally over time, your income goes up,

00:47:24.080 | whether that's from raises,

00:47:26.240 | or finding a partner and combining incomes,

00:47:29.280 | or just all the things that end up happening,

00:47:31.520 | most people end up making more money as they age,

00:47:33.840 | then they end up spending more money.

00:47:35.160 | So it's a little bit of the management of expenses,

00:47:38.640 | but a lot more of level setting,

00:47:41.080 | here's what we want and not letting that creep happen.

00:47:44.440 | And I think just going through how you spend money

00:47:47.500 | and having a conversation with yourself,

00:47:49.740 | or a partner if you have one,

00:47:51.100 | on do we spend more or less than we want to

00:47:54.780 | in this category of expenses?

00:47:56.540 | Like that conversation has led us to realize,

00:48:00.100 | oh, if we had more money to spend on travel,

00:48:03.620 | like I have no aspiration to fly private.

00:48:05.660 | And we play the game well enough

00:48:07.300 | that like we don't need more money for that category.

00:48:09.820 | So it's less about trying to find ways to save

00:48:11.920 | and trying to be comfortable with where we are,

00:48:15.180 | which makes it easy to not spend more

00:48:17.760 | when you generate more income.

00:48:19.500 | - Yeah, I completely agree with that.

00:48:22.020 | - And then on the investing side,

00:48:23.080 | I think personally my investing strategy is pretty boring.

00:48:27.020 | I'm in a bunch of, like you said, boring index funds.

00:48:30.380 | And I think we talk so much about that

00:48:32.060 | for the same reason that all the crazy supplements

00:48:35.360 | and diets work on social media,

00:48:37.700 | because it's really boring to say,

00:48:39.860 | hey, you could just buy some index funds and be done.

00:48:42.300 | Like it's way cooler to talk about

00:48:43.840 | the crazy things people do

00:48:45.760 | than it is to talk about the other categories,

00:48:49.000 | which are like managing your own impulses financially,

00:48:51.920 | which is actually the thing

00:48:52.760 | that really clickbaits on social media.

00:48:56.080 | - Yeah, I completely agree with that.

00:48:57.400 | It's like the complexity trap,

00:48:58.800 | especially with smart people.

00:49:00.520 | Smart people are attracted to the complex, sexy solutions.

00:49:03.520 | And so what ends up happening

00:49:05.200 | is that we naturally want to do the complex thing

00:49:09.080 | because we know it'll be more interesting to other people

00:49:11.860 | when we go and talk about it.

00:49:13.500 | - Funny enough, I think the financial wealth section,

00:49:15.700 | which is what most people might think of as wealth,

00:49:18.180 | is the one we spent the least amount of time on.

00:49:20.380 | And I wanna go back to how we talked about diagnostics

00:49:24.620 | and measuring your wealth.

00:49:25.700 | So wealthscorequiz.com and the book

00:49:28.100 | both have the tool you've built.

00:49:30.860 | Talk a little bit about what it is.

00:49:32.340 | And then I want you to share the tip you gave me

00:49:34.380 | about a way to do it if you're in a relationship.

00:49:36.700 | - So the quiz itself is broken into the five types of wealth.

00:49:41.700 | So for each of the five types of wealth,

00:49:44.200 | there are five statements.

00:49:46.240 | And you respond to the statement

00:49:48.240 | from strongly disagree to strongly agree

00:49:51.260 | on the basis of how you feel that statement aligns with you.

00:49:54.480 | And it totals your score across all of these.

00:49:56.600 | So for every strongly disagree is a zero,

00:49:58.840 | every strongly agree is a four.

00:50:00.280 | So each of the areas ends up being 20 total points,

00:50:03.320 | which adds up to 100 across the five areas.

00:50:06.560 | And it gives you a picture

00:50:07.900 | when you spit out your final visual here

00:50:09.780 | across these different areas of wealth in this circle.

00:50:12.540 | And it kind of fills in the chart in the different areas

00:50:14.700 | on the basis of how you're doing.

00:50:16.260 | It's a great baseline assessment,

00:50:18.500 | especially starting your year out

00:50:20.300 | to get a sense for where you stand today

00:50:21.980 | so that you can build against it.

00:50:23.140 | When I first created it in 2021

00:50:25.300 | was when I was making my big life change personally.

00:50:28.100 | I was at a 53 and now I've worked my way up to an 87,

00:50:32.780 | I believe the last time I did it.

00:50:34.700 | It's totally personal.

00:50:35.820 | The way that you answer it is sort of up to you

00:50:37.980 | and how harsh or critical you are on yourself

00:50:40.020 | is going to impact it.

00:50:41.040 | So it's a personal scoring system

00:50:42.660 | that you wanna measure yourself against

00:50:44.300 | over long periods of time.

00:50:46.040 | What you mentioned about an interesting way to do it

00:50:48.220 | is if you're in a relationship, do one for yourself

00:50:52.060 | and then do the same assessment for your partner.

00:50:55.700 | And each, you do one for each other.

00:50:58.380 | And then look at it and see how you stack up.

00:51:00.900 | Basically like how did you rank yourself

00:51:03.300 | and then how did your partner rank you

00:51:05.140 | and have a discussion about why they ranked you differently

00:51:08.220 | than you ranked yourself.

00:51:09.360 | Because it often reveals interesting things about yourself,

00:51:11.780 | sort of like doing a 360 review on your life,

00:51:15.540 | but with your partner.

00:51:16.860 | My wife is more critical and probably more honest

00:51:20.900 | about some of these areas.

00:51:22.420 | So I found her score was like 10 points lower

00:51:24.860 | for both of us than mine was for each of us.

00:51:27.220 | And then we talked about it and I was like,

00:51:29.780 | I'm probably playing this optimist role

00:51:31.820 | where I'm like, yeah, I do have control over my time.

00:51:33.740 | And she's like, yeah,

00:51:34.580 | but you're not using it the way you want to.

00:51:36.180 | We had this dialogue and it was super helpful.

00:51:39.700 | So I would encourage everyone to not only take it,

00:51:41.460 | but have someone else take it for them.

00:51:43.340 | Ideally, someone that knows you really well.

00:51:45.020 | And if you don't have a partner, maybe it's a best friend

00:51:47.460 | and then talk about it.

00:51:48.980 | And it spun off so many interesting conversations.

00:51:52.540 | For the nerds, we put it in a little two by two matrix

00:51:54.620 | so we could kind of compare it all on one sheet

00:51:56.400 | just to go full circle there.

00:51:58.140 | I love that for you.

00:51:59.200 | And how do you think about what to do with that?

00:52:01.460 | So for us, there were two or three areas to focus on.

00:52:06.460 | Earlier, you said you can't focus on all of them

00:52:10.060 | and you can't focus on any of them, zero.

00:52:12.140 | How many of them do you need to focus on?

00:52:14.020 | And how many of them do you even have to be

00:52:16.860 | kind of near capacity?

00:52:18.380 | Can you live a fulfilling life with a 60?

00:52:21.700 | - It's totally up to you.

00:52:23.620 | And if you're feeling deeply fulfilled and you're at a 60,

00:52:25.820 | I think that's great.

00:52:26.860 | My guess is you are not feeling deeply fulfilled

00:52:28.980 | if you answer at a 60 and you feel like there's improvement.

00:52:31.700 | If you're listening to this podcast,

00:52:32.880 | you are a growth-oriented individual.

00:52:34.620 | Having a score and seeing what this looks like,

00:52:36.580 | you are going to want to improve on the areas that are weak.

00:52:39.140 | The book, each section has a guide at the end

00:52:41.220 | that is filled with tips, tricks, hacks,

00:52:43.620 | science-backed strategies for building

00:52:45.540 | that type of wealth in your life.

00:52:46.860 | So you can go and read it and actually take action

00:52:49.340 | on something today to start building that type of wealth.

00:52:52.700 | They are the exact strategies that I've used in my own life

00:52:55.300 | to dramatically improve my sort of comprehensive wealth

00:52:58.460 | score across these areas.

00:52:59.940 | They are what people have used across all walks of life

00:53:02.740 | to do that.

00:53:03.580 | So they are proven, they're timeless, and they work.

00:53:05.460 | But just getting your baseline, having that awareness,

00:53:08.060 | and then starting to slowly take action

00:53:09.900 | to build against that,

00:53:11.140 | that is the path to creating change in any area of life.

00:53:13.700 | You measure what matters,

00:53:15.220 | and then you build and take action against that

00:53:17.120 | to build the future that you actually want for yourself.

00:53:20.380 | - And if someone does this and is like,

00:53:21.620 | "Gosh, I'm lower than I want to be in four areas,"

00:53:25.000 | do you suggest tackling one at a time, two at a time,

00:53:27.340 | all of them?

00:53:28.660 | - I think you should take a tiny action in all of them,

00:53:31.340 | and then ask yourself which is the one

00:53:32.900 | that you're really focusing on.

00:53:34.280 | Wait, like if you are in a place where you're like,

00:53:36.140 | "Oh man, I really want to focus on my physical wealth,"

00:53:38.900 | then you can prioritize that

00:53:40.260 | and lean into that one more heavily,

00:53:42.420 | but still take one tiny action on the others.

00:53:44.580 | I mean, the tiny action on social wealth

00:53:46.140 | could be as simple as sending one text a day

00:53:48.180 | to someone that you care about.

00:53:49.660 | The tiny action on physical wealth

00:53:50.980 | could be going for a 15-minute walk every single day.

00:53:53.780 | The tiny action on mental wealth

00:53:55.260 | could be taking five-minute breaks

00:53:56.980 | to just breathe in between meetings.

00:53:59.220 | There are simple tiny actions you can do

00:54:01.060 | that will improve that type of wealth today.

00:54:04.620 | Like it doesn't need to be, it's a month-long activity,

00:54:06.720 | it's a year-long thing, it's literally today,

00:54:09.060 | but you have to do the tiny action.

00:54:10.520 | So creating the awareness, know where you're deficient,

00:54:13.540 | and then invest a little bit to start building that area.

00:54:17.140 | - I love it.

00:54:17.960 | And what do you think the difference for someone

00:54:19.580 | who has identified this, gone through this process,

00:54:22.420 | and really cared about it,

00:54:23.480 | someone who has five types of wealth

00:54:25.700 | instead of thinking about it from just one,

00:54:28.840 | what do you think the difference in the life

00:54:30.100 | that that person will live is?

00:54:32.580 | - It's dramatic.

00:54:33.620 | I mean, you will see the world

00:54:35.300 | in an entirely different light.

00:54:36.500 | You'll be able to measure the things that actually matter.

00:54:39.520 | You will make decisions with the bigger picture of your life

00:54:43.540 | in the clear view.

00:54:44.460 | So when you make a decision,

00:54:45.540 | rather than it being just about financial wealth

00:54:48.300 | and just about money,

00:54:49.140 | you'll be able to see all of these different areas

00:54:51.220 | because you understand how they play a role in your life.

00:54:54.120 | And then you'll be able to design your life proactively

00:54:56.760 | along these pillars

00:54:58.040 | so that when you're making those future-oriented decisions,

00:55:01.080 | so that when you're designing where you wanna be

00:55:02.800 | in five, 10, 15, 20 years,

00:55:04.840 | you're taking into account this broader picture

00:55:07.320 | of your entire life rather than just the singular one.

00:55:10.800 | - We've talked about this book since, you know,

00:55:13.360 | before you, I think, started even writing about it.

00:55:16.020 | I'm so excited that you put it together.

00:55:17.800 | I only got the digital copy,

00:55:19.000 | so I'm still waiting for my physical copy.

00:55:20.760 | But by the time this comes out,

00:55:21.900 | I think it'll be here in the mail.

00:55:23.740 | I think we actually talked about you maybe coming on

00:55:26.100 | for the members and doing a little something.

00:55:28.420 | So for anyone who's an All The Hacks member, stay tuned.

00:55:30.900 | - I can't wait.

00:55:31.740 | I can't wait to do it.

00:55:32.560 | Thank you so much.

00:55:33.400 | And looking forward to seeing what actions people take

00:55:35.540 | on the back of this.

00:55:36.620 | - Yeah, and you didn't say it,

00:55:38.500 | but you can find the book wherever books are sold.

00:55:40.620 | Did you do an audio book and did you read it?

00:55:42.620 | - I read the audio book myself,

00:55:44.140 | which was an absolute grind, by the way.

00:55:46.140 | The audio book process is crazy

00:55:48.180 | and can't wait for people to listen to that one as well.

00:55:51.000 | - Awesome.

00:55:51.840 | All the links in the show notes.

00:55:53.080 | Thanks so much for being here.

Master the 5 Types of Wealth to Unlock True Freedom (ft. Sahil Bloom)

Chapters