To Discouraged Pastors and Their Wives

00:00:00.000 | Happy Monday and welcome back to the podcast. Well, Mondays are notoriously difficult for

00:00:09.400 | pastors. The Monday blues, as they're called, can set in after giving ones a life and soul

00:00:14.720 | on Sunday. And if you're not a pastor, I would encourage you to pray for your pastor today.

00:00:19.460 | Pray for them every Monday. And all of this is compounded. All of these pressures compound

00:00:25.400 | for pastors who struggle with tensions inside of a local church leadership structure, which

00:00:30.480 | of course then breeds tension in a marriage and in a family. And it all leads to a question

00:00:35.160 | from an anonymous wife of a discouraged pastor. Pastor John, I really appreciate the Ask Pastor

00:00:40.400 | John podcast. It's one of my favorite things to listen to when I'm walking or doing the

00:00:44.120 | dishes or folding laundry. So thank you. I write to you as a discouraged pastor's wife.

00:00:49.160 | My husband and I have been in full-time youth ministry for four years now, and it breaks

00:00:53.140 | my heart to say it, but I feel almost fed up with ministry. My husband gets very frustrated

00:00:58.200 | and discouraged at times. I submit to his leading in our family and his call to ministry,

00:01:03.140 | but I am so discouraged. The last year has been really difficult for us, my husband,

00:01:07.600 | our marriage, our family. My husband looks so defeated some days, it breaks my heart.

00:01:12.880 | We receive difficult criticism from church members, and I have a hard time not taking

00:01:16.340 | the criticism personally. Some of these people are our dear friends, and it's hard not to

00:01:20.800 | feel betrayed. Our church leadership remains fairly silent regarding the criticism and

00:01:25.880 | neither offers support nor guidance in how my husband can improve. I know we are not

00:01:30.720 | perfect by any means, but without guidance, we don't know what the church wants from us.

00:01:35.440 | We feel alone. Can you offer any encouragement to us?

00:01:39.780 | My heart really goes out to this situation, this young couple, to pastors, especially

00:01:47.760 | younger pastors who are not in the lead pastor position but serve in supportive roles like

00:01:54.560 | youth pastor, because their fruitfulness and their joy are often dependent on patterns

00:02:03.080 | of leadership set by those who oversee them, and so they're more vulnerable than others

00:02:10.760 | are. So I have a special tender spot of concern that they have good leadership, not those

00:02:19.380 | who just ignore issues. So what might be helpful is three things. One is a testimony. Let me

00:02:26.440 | give a little testimony of my own discouragement six years into the ministry. Another is perhaps

00:02:32.640 | a series of diagnostic questions that might provide a way of reflecting on their situation,

00:02:39.360 | and finally some encouragement from the Word. So here's the testimony. I had been at Bethlehem

00:02:45.280 | as the senior pastor for six years. I was now 40 years old at this point, which I do

00:02:53.000 | believe is an emotionally very vulnerable place for a man to be. There are real midlife

00:02:59.320 | issues, I think. And I wrote in my journal on November 6, 1986, these words. In fact,

00:03:07.960 | you can read the whole thing by going to Desiring God and just searching for the article called

00:03:15.920 | How I Almost Quit. So here's part of what I said. "The church is looking for a vision

00:03:21.080 | for the future, and I do not have it. Does this mean that my time at Bethlehem is over?

00:03:27.440 | Does it mean that there is a radical alternative unforeseen by me? Does it mean that I am simply

00:03:33.880 | in the pits today and unable to feel the beauty and power and joy and fruitfulness of an expanded

00:03:40.000 | facility and ministry? O Lord, have mercy on me. I am so discouraged. I am so blank.

00:03:48.480 | I feel like there are opponents on every hand. Even when I know that most of my people are

00:03:54.720 | for me, I am so blind to the future of the church. O Father, am I blind because it is

00:04:03.040 | not my future? Perhaps I shall not even live out the year, and you are sparing the church

00:04:09.840 | the added burden of a future I had made and couldn't complete. I do not doubt for a

00:04:15.920 | moment your goodness or power or omnipotence in my life or in the life of the church. I

00:04:23.040 | confess that the problem is mine, the weakness is mine, the blindness is in my eyes, the

00:04:28.760 | sin, O, reveal to me my hidden faults, is mine and mine the blame. Have mercy, Father,

00:04:37.480 | have mercy on me. I must preach on Sunday, and I can scarcely lift my head." End of

00:04:44.600 | quote. Now, as a matter of fact, I remained in that

00:04:50.680 | role for another 27 years, which is a warning against precipitous resignations when God

00:04:59.760 | may have something wonderful in store by persevering through seasons of blankness. He certainly

00:05:08.560 | did for me, and I'm so thankful he didn't let me go in both senses. He didn't let

00:05:15.200 | me leave the church and didn't let go of me. However, not all resignations, not all

00:05:22.120 | ministry changes are owing to cowardice or fear or laziness or a sense of failure. So

00:05:28.960 | let me give some diagnostic questions that might help this young couple discern what

00:05:36.000 | the problem really is, because maybe a change in ministry is appropriate, maybe it's not.

00:05:42.000 | Number one, is there a mismatch between your husband's spiritual gifts and the role he

00:05:48.640 | is being asked to fulfill? It's not a defeat or an act of disobedience if you discover

00:05:56.960 | that the role you are in calls for gifts you don't have. Such a mismatch may be painful

00:06:04.840 | to discover, but it doesn't have to be shameful. It's very difficult for us to make this

00:06:11.160 | call about ourselves. We need loving, honest, objective partners in ministry, and if they

00:06:18.640 | aren't there in the staff or in the church, then from outside. I think gifts for ministry

00:06:25.220 | are best discovered and best confirmed by others, not just ourselves. Others see more

00:06:33.200 | clearly than we at times whether our gifts are bearing any spiritual fruit or not, and

00:06:39.400 | what that fruit should be. So here's number two, the second diagnostic question. Is there

00:06:44.520 | a possible mismatch between the theology of your husband and the theology of the leadership?

00:06:50.880 | Depending on how serious the differences are, this can be a deal-breaker in ongoing ministry.

00:06:57.760 | How sweet when there's a theological camaraderie on the staff and nobody has to be fearful

00:07:06.280 | of openly sharing what they believe and can teach. Number three, is there a possible mismatch

00:07:13.220 | between your husband's philosophy of ministry and the philosophy of ministry in the leadership

00:07:18.160 | of the church? This is different from theology. It basically refers to how you go about ministry,

00:07:24.280 | and in youth ministry this is explosively controversial. Parents often have views about

00:07:31.840 | what they think should happen in youth ministry that certainly should not happen in youth

00:07:37.320 | ministry, but if a youth minister doesn't have the full support of the senior pastor

00:07:42.880 | or the rest of the staff, he's not going to probably survive the onslaught of these

00:07:50.240 | parents who don't like what he's doing with their kids. Four, is there a possible

00:07:56.520 | mismatch of personality or culture? This can often feel like a matter of sin when in

00:08:03.840 | fact the essence of it is not necessarily sin, but genuine differences that are almost

00:08:10.360 | undefinable in the culture of ministry or the personality of the leadership in the youth

00:08:16.880 | minister, in the staff of the church. We need skillful, spiritually discerning friends inside

00:08:25.200 | or outside the church to help us discern whether our personalities are simply like oil and

00:08:32.480 | water on this staff. Maybe that was part of what was going on with Paul and Barnabas.

00:08:39.280 | Number five, is this present discouragement a test of faithfulness and perseverance, or

00:08:48.520 | is it something that shouldn't be endured and needs to be changed? And God knows what

00:08:57.560 | you're in, and he's put you there, and his purpose is that you would persevere in grace

00:09:04.240 | and overcome evil with good. No matter what the outcome is, that's your calling. Discerning

00:09:11.600 | whether this is the case requires partners in ministry. And I suppose, this is number

00:09:18.280 | six, but a continuation of five, really, I suppose the most disheartening sentence in

00:09:23.600 | this wife's question was, "Our leadership remains fairly silent regarding the criticism

00:09:31.640 | and neither offers support nor guidance in how my husband can improve." That's just

00:09:38.240 | inexcusable. That's just inexcusable for a mature, godly staff to function that way.

00:09:47.800 | And it's not at all uncommon, unfortunately, and suggests that the leadership is too immature

00:09:56.080 | or fearful, part of their own dysfunction, too fearful to deal face-to-face, up front,

00:10:03.840 | get the conflict, and take the flak that addressing it will get. And many, many leadership structures

00:10:14.880 | experience staff changes by simply not addressing staff problems. And that's the only way they

00:10:22.520 | know to deal with them. Well, if we don't do anything, the staff member that perhaps

00:10:28.360 | shouldn't be there in our judgment will just not be here if we let things get bad enough.

00:10:32.520 | Well, that's awful. That's just not the way Christians should do things. It just

00:10:36.520 | ticks me off when I see that happening. That's not the way we're told to deal with each

00:10:42.920 | other. It ought not to be. And I don't know if it is the case there or not, but that sentence

00:10:49.040 | was a big, red, flashing light to me, and I was so sad to read it.

00:10:55.400 | But let me end with some encouragement. Clearly, God is sovereign, and God is over this present

00:11:03.560 | moment and has you in this situation of sorrow and pressure and burden and discouragement.

00:11:10.120 | His purpose for you there is not your harm. It's not your harm. We know this because

00:11:16.520 | of Romans 8:28 and 8:32. We know that he has bought with his blood good for you in every

00:11:24.640 | circumstance. We know that his purpose is for you, and he wants your joy in the ministry.

00:11:32.240 | We know that because of Hebrews 13:17, where it says, "Let the pastors do their work

00:11:38.320 | with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to the people." And we

00:11:44.740 | know that God's purpose is to bring you through this season stronger and happier.

00:11:51.800 | So let me close with these two Psalms. Listen with your heart. Let it sink in. "Those

00:11:57.760 | who sow in tears," like in youth ministry, "shall reap with shouts of joy. He who

00:12:05.520 | goes out weeping, bearing the seed for sowing, shall come home with shouts of joy, bringing

00:12:13.600 | his sheaves with him." That's Psalm 126, 5 and 6, and then this one from Psalm 30.

00:12:19.640 | "Weeping may tarry for the night, but joy comes with the morning."

00:12:25.720 | Loads of leadership implications here. Thank you, Pastor John, and thank you for the question.

00:12:29.560 | A lot of the hardest questions come to us anonymously, and that's perfectly fine, to

00:12:33.280 | send them in with a request that they remain anonymous. We will, of course, respect that.

00:12:38.120 | Thank you for your willingness to open up your life to the APJ community so that others

00:12:43.440 | in similar situations can be helped, or at least that's our prayer, that many of you

00:12:48.320 | would find help, as you find in this community, other people who are struggling with the same

00:12:53.360 | things you are. So please keep those questions coming in. Thank you for listening and making

00:12:57.480 | the podcast a part of your week. You can subscribe to our audio feeds and search our past episodes

00:13:01.760 | in our archive. You can reach us by email with a question of your own, even questions

00:13:05.000 | related to discouragements in the ministry. You can do all of that through our online

00:13:08.760 | home at desiringgod.org/askpastorjohn.

00:13:09.760 | Well, Wednesday, we hear from a young woman who struggles with body image, and she wants

00:13:16.320 | to know what's wrong with immodesty in order to attract the attention of a future spouse.

00:13:22.920 | We'll look at the heart of modesty and the heart of immodesty next time. I'm your host,

00:13:27.320 | Tony Reinke. Thanks for listening to the Ask Pastor John podcast with longtime pastor and

00:13:30.880 | author, John Piper. We'll see you then.

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To Discouraged Pastors and Their Wives

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