Balancing Audacious Goals and Family Life

00:00:00.000 | (upbeat music)

00:00:02.580 | - So you talked about family.

00:00:06.920 | I think that there are very few people in the world

00:00:09.360 | who would say one of my big goals

00:00:11.640 | is to do anything measured in billions, right?

00:00:14.160 | You mentioned $10 billion of real estate.

00:00:16.720 | Most of the people I know that really, really prioritize

00:00:20.560 | crazy, audacious business goals

00:00:23.840 | don't often talk also about prioritizing

00:00:27.200 | being a good partner and being a good parent

00:00:29.040 | and having listened to you talk a lot.

00:00:31.640 | It's something you do more than most.

00:00:34.480 | How do you find that balance?

00:00:36.320 | - I mean, so first of all, yeah, I got into real estate.

00:00:41.400 | I got into financial freedom,

00:00:42.960 | the pursuit of financial independence.

00:00:45.960 | And I know it's kind of a buzzword, right?

00:00:48.320 | But all I'm talking about is

00:00:49.480 | when I say financial independence,

00:00:50.560 | the ability to do what you want, where you want,

00:00:52.320 | when you want, how you want with whoever you want,

00:00:55.120 | whomever you want, I don't know.

00:00:56.440 | It's just that freedom, right?

00:00:57.880 | That comes with having money.

00:00:59.440 | It's not, it was never about getting rich,

00:01:01.280 | never about being a billionaire

00:01:02.440 | or anything like that, right?

00:01:03.360 | I wanted to pursue financial independence for one,

00:01:06.680 | two reasons, two reasons.

00:01:09.600 | And I think both of these will resonate with you, right?

00:01:11.120 | Number one, when I was growing up,

00:01:13.800 | like my dad worked really hard,

00:01:15.840 | but he wasn't there much 'cause he worked all the time.

00:01:18.080 | And so I rarely saw him.

00:01:19.560 | And I said, when I am a father someday,

00:01:23.160 | I want to be there for every ball game,

00:01:25.200 | every ballet recital, every field trip.

00:01:29.200 | I want to be there with my kids.

00:01:30.520 | I want to like be the best father I can possibly be.

00:01:33.720 | And I can't work 40, 50, 60 hours a week

00:01:37.720 | and have commuting to be able to do that.

00:01:39.440 | So I started with that.

00:01:40.280 | And that was the one thing.

00:01:41.120 | The second thing I said,

00:01:42.560 | I heard a quote once that said the world is a book

00:01:44.920 | and those who don't travel read just a page.

00:01:48.520 | Like the world is so amazing, right?

00:01:50.320 | So big.

00:01:51.160 | And there's so many things to see out there.

00:01:53.200 | And I wanted to see as much of it as I can

00:01:55.560 | while we're here on this earth.

00:01:57.520 | And I knew that again, being broke

00:01:59.680 | and working 40, 50 hours a week

00:02:01.000 | and getting my two weeks paid vacation every year,

00:02:03.280 | that wasn't gonna cut it.

00:02:04.160 | So combining those two things,

00:02:05.560 | that's why I pursued real estate and business

00:02:08.440 | and wealth in general.

00:02:10.560 | Now, fast forward a few years

00:02:11.880 | and I find myself sometimes just like,

00:02:14.320 | I mean, I've achieved it.

00:02:15.320 | I could retire right now and just sit on a beach

00:02:17.240 | and do nothing, but I'd be bored out of my mind, right?

00:02:19.520 | I can only play Barbies and GI Joes

00:02:21.680 | for so many hours a day.

00:02:23.360 | So there's this balance that you have to have.

00:02:25.880 | And there is no, to quote Gary Keller in "The One Thing",

00:02:29.000 | there is no such thing as work-life balance.

00:02:30.920 | It's work-life balancing.

00:02:32.920 | It's a constant influx of flow

00:02:36.000 | that you sometimes have to go farther one way

00:02:38.080 | and sometimes you have to go farther the other.

00:02:40.960 | And therefore I am constantly re-evaluating

00:02:48.480 | where I am on that spectrum of too much work

00:02:51.840 | and maybe too much family, right?

00:02:53.720 | 'Cause as an entrepreneur too,

00:02:54.640 | we get paid in the future for the work we do today.

00:02:56.800 | We don't get paid today for the work we do today, right?

00:02:58.480 | So we have to do the work now

00:03:00.040 | to get paid five years from now.

00:03:01.480 | We got to plant the seeds today in order to harvest then.

00:03:05.120 | But I also need to make sure that my kids

00:03:07.160 | are being brought up right and that they're connected with me

00:03:09.840 | and that we have that solid relationship.

00:03:12.040 | So I guess that's why I talk about it a lot

00:03:13.680 | because I'm very scared, is that the wrong word?

00:03:17.720 | Maybe I'm very concerned that at the end of my life,

00:03:22.000 | I will look back and say, why did I work so much?

00:03:26.800 | Like, why didn't I do the things

00:03:29.480 | that are most important in life?

00:03:31.680 | And the only way to know that is to continually evaluate it

00:03:34.200 | and to have the conversation with people.

00:03:35.960 | So I love when this topic comes up

00:03:38.600 | because it forces me to introspectively look at my life

00:03:41.760 | and say, how am I doing right now?

00:03:43.720 | Like, can I do better?

00:03:46.200 | Can I get more balance?

00:03:47.320 | What about you?

00:03:48.400 | - So it's interesting.

00:03:49.680 | I used to be someone,

00:03:51.280 | well, I still am someone who really loves productivity,

00:03:54.280 | like inbox zero, kind of everything.

00:03:56.120 | But one thing that I recently picked up,

00:03:58.400 | so we have two daughters, two and three months.

00:04:02.240 | So still, you know, the day-

00:04:04.280 | - You're in it.

00:04:05.120 | You're in it.

00:04:05.960 | - I always wanted to like get to inbox zero,

00:04:09.600 | but I've lately still prioritized, right?

00:04:13.280 | When I'm working, I'm working in the most efficient manner.

00:04:16.320 | But when I get to the end of the day,

00:04:18.160 | and it's actually nice

00:04:19.560 | that sometimes kids just force this, right?

00:04:21.520 | Like we have an au pair, she's done at 5.30.

00:04:23.480 | Like there's no real option.

00:04:25.440 | Like you gotta be there at 5.30.

00:04:27.680 | I just kind of like let it drop.

00:04:29.800 | And I think I've spent so much time in my life

00:04:33.240 | feeling like, gosh, everything I do today is for the future.

00:04:35.960 | I need to get it all done.

00:04:36.840 | I need to get all done.

00:04:37.840 | And then the next morning, I'm like,

00:04:39.600 | that didn't really matter

00:04:40.560 | that I got everything done before I went to bed.

00:04:42.800 | Now, there are times, you know, Tuesday night,

00:04:45.480 | this show comes out on Wednesday mornings,

00:04:47.680 | or maybe this bonus episode on a Friday.

00:04:49.520 | Like there are times where it's like,

00:04:50.560 | no, I do have to stay up

00:04:51.520 | 'cause this thing comes out this time.

00:04:53.800 | But for the most part, there are a lot of things

00:04:55.640 | that you feel a lot of pressure to do.

00:04:58.040 | And I found that the more I've built the muscle

00:05:00.640 | of getting comfortable with not doing some things,

00:05:04.080 | whether it's a task at hand,

00:05:06.000 | or it's just saying no to a meeting,

00:05:08.080 | the more you get comfortable with it,

00:05:10.120 | the more, one, it's easier.

00:05:12.280 | And two, you realize it doesn't matter.

00:05:14.680 | So I remember I got this email

00:05:16.920 | from a guy named James Bechara,

00:05:18.480 | who has a podcast called Below the Line.

00:05:20.440 | And I said, we'd connected in the past,

00:05:22.560 | and it'd been a few years.

00:05:23.440 | I reached back out to him and he said,

00:05:25.800 | you know what, I don't really wanna do meetings

00:05:27.240 | 'cause I'm trying to prioritize other things in my life,

00:05:29.600 | but I'm really down with asynchronous communication.

00:05:32.280 | So if you want, you could go and use a tool like Loom,

00:05:36.120 | and you could record a conversation

00:05:37.960 | you wanna have part of it,

00:05:38.880 | and then I'd be glad to get back to you.

00:05:41.280 | And I was like, oh, wow.

00:05:42.480 | So one, it really raised the bar.

00:05:44.400 | Like, I'm not gonna go record a video to talk to him

00:05:46.840 | to just shoot the breeze.

00:05:48.000 | So like, he's basically filtering for,

00:05:50.320 | if you just wanna have a BS conversation and talk,

00:05:52.800 | that's gone.

00:05:54.320 | And at the time, I wanted to catch up with him

00:05:56.320 | 'cause I was trying to start a podcast,

00:05:57.520 | but I didn't really have my questions formulated.

00:05:59.480 | And it actually forced me to wait

00:06:01.120 | and ask when the time was right.

00:06:02.960 | And then I started using that,

00:06:04.520 | and boy, it makes everything so much more efficient.

00:06:07.560 | And it's just helped me prioritize.

00:06:09.560 | So someone says, hey, you've started companies,

00:06:11.840 | can you help me figure out how to start a company

00:06:14.520 | in the space that you did?

00:06:15.640 | I say, great.

00:06:16.480 | If you wanna go to Loom

00:06:17.480 | and you wanna record some specific questions

00:06:19.400 | or write them out in an email,

00:06:20.520 | I'm happy to answer those questions.

00:06:22.160 | And if it eventually makes sense for us to chat,

00:06:24.240 | I'm happy to, but there's a lot going on right now,

00:06:26.680 | and I just have to let some things drop,

00:06:28.720 | and it's nothing personal.

00:06:30.480 | And learning to do that and getting comfortable doing that

00:06:33.720 | has made it so much more comfortable to go and say,

00:06:38.240 | you know what?

00:06:39.080 | Like this week, our au pair is out of town.

00:06:41.040 | She's in Boston, New York, Chicago, having a blast.

00:06:44.080 | And that means there's no childcare and two kids is a lot.

00:06:47.360 | And so other than this interview,

00:06:49.600 | I basically have no meetings all week,

00:06:52.040 | and I'm okay with that.

00:06:53.480 | And I'm letting things drop

00:06:54.840 | because I've gotten comfortable with that skill.

00:06:57.520 | That's been the biggest thing for me

00:06:58.800 | is that comfort with doing something

00:07:01.280 | that in your grindy kind of 20s, early 30s time of life

00:07:05.440 | just felt unfathomable.

00:07:06.760 | It's like, I gotta get it done.

00:07:09.040 | Letting it go is very cathartic.

00:07:12.480 | - You know, that reminds me,

00:07:13.760 | and I love that you say like,

00:07:14.600 | you know, as soon as you gotta drop some stuff, right?

00:07:16.720 | In the book, "The One Thing," I'll bring it up again,

00:07:18.480 | Gary Keller, Jay Papasan, they have the book, "The One Thing,"

00:07:21.280 | and they tell the story or the metaphor in there

00:07:23.800 | that says that life is like juggling a bunch of balls, right?

00:07:26.440 | You're juggling family, health, your work, your career,

00:07:30.600 | your financial life, you're balancing all those things.

00:07:32.920 | And he says, some of those balls are rubber

00:07:36.000 | and some of them are glass, right?

00:07:38.480 | When you drop something at work, it'll bounce right back.

00:07:41.400 | Like typically nothing's really that bad,

00:07:43.800 | but there are glass balls in our life, right?

00:07:47.360 | Our relationship with our spouse

00:07:49.040 | or significant other is a glass ball.

00:07:51.360 | And you can only drop that so many times before it shatters.

00:07:54.360 | And so there's this constant, yeah.

00:07:56.600 | I'm always thinking a lot of my life is going to get dropped.

00:08:00.120 | A lot of things are gonna get dropped.

00:08:01.600 | Let's make sure we drop the right things.

00:08:03.720 | And that, I think in my life,

00:08:04.840 | like that would be a great reputation to have

00:08:08.080 | and a great dying thought

00:08:10.520 | is I drop the right balls throughout my life.

00:08:13.360 | - And it's funny 'cause I respected the email I got

00:08:16.760 | from James so much.

00:08:18.520 | You think you have this email that's like,

00:08:21.160 | I've had a handful of people

00:08:22.440 | that I would put in the category of important people.

00:08:24.720 | Their emails are like,

00:08:25.560 | hey, I'm not checking email this summer.

00:08:27.960 | And I'm like, damn, that person's like,

00:08:30.680 | they've got it figured out.

00:08:31.840 | I didn't write back and be like, that person's an asshole.

00:08:34.760 | My reaction was like, this person is prioritizing their life

00:08:38.240 | in many cases, better than me.

00:08:40.000 | And so I would just encourage people to realize

00:08:41.880 | that most of people's reaction to your dropping the ball

00:08:45.880 | in a polite way might actually be kind of jealousy and envy

00:08:50.400 | more than frustration.

00:08:52.480 | - And I would even, to push it to another level,

00:08:55.440 | if I could real quick, like another reason to do that

00:08:58.040 | by adding these bounds in your life,

00:08:59.960 | like things like, for example,

00:09:01.720 | like people might be surprised to hear this,

00:09:03.240 | but like, I mean, I'm building a billion dollar brand.

00:09:05.840 | I have a billion dollars of real estate.

00:09:06.800 | We'll buy 10 billion.

00:09:08.200 | That should make my company about a billion in profit

00:09:10.480 | over the next five to 10 years.

00:09:11.960 | Like that's, it's a legit like billion dollar

00:09:14.600 | profit business.

00:09:15.760 | And I work at most five hours a week.

00:09:18.480 | Like that's it.

00:09:19.320 | Like I don't work a lot of hours at this.

00:09:20.840 | I'm gonna launch a new business next year

00:09:22.640 | that I think is gonna be awesome.

00:09:23.960 | And I'm from day one, I have the requirement.

00:09:27.320 | I do not work more than five hours a week at this.

00:09:29.920 | And the cool thing is, is by having those boundaries,

00:09:33.840 | I am forced to build a business that I am not within.

00:09:37.480 | Like I am building it from the outside looking in.

00:09:40.120 | I'm not building it from the inside up.

00:09:42.400 | I'm not doing every single role.

00:09:43.640 | I'm saying, no, that's the rules of this business,

00:09:47.720 | of this game.

00:09:49.080 | I'm gonna play within the rules.

00:09:50.600 | And so many people don't realize that you get to make

00:09:53.520 | whatever rules you want.

00:09:54.600 | This is your game.

00:09:55.520 | Like your business is your game.

00:09:56.720 | Make it however you want.

00:09:57.760 | So established rules, like I only work this much.

00:10:00.000 | I don't work Fridays.

00:10:01.120 | I take Wednesday and Thursday and Friday off.

00:10:02.800 | Like who cares, right?

00:10:03.800 | And then you will find a way to be successful.

00:10:08.080 | 'Cause if you're listening to this podcast

00:10:09.680 | an hour in or whatever we're in,

00:10:10.800 | like you're a legit person.

00:10:13.080 | You're going to find a way to be massively successful

00:10:15.320 | within the bounds of, within the rules that you establish.

00:10:18.040 | So establish them.

00:10:19.280 | Don't just play what's given to you.

00:10:20.920 | Define what you want to do, what sounds amazing.

00:10:24.040 | And then just go after that.

00:10:25.480 | If you haven't read the book from Strength to Strength

00:10:27.720 | from Arthur Brooks, I think you should.

00:10:29.520 | I think you'd enjoy it.

00:10:30.640 | I had him on the podcast and it's about finding a new form

00:10:35.120 | of happiness as you transition from a style of intelligence

00:10:38.960 | and work in your early life that isn't as compatible

00:10:42.040 | in the second half of life.

00:10:43.200 | And second half is not like seventies.

00:10:45.160 | It's like, you know, late thirties, forties kind of age.

00:10:47.800 | We were like, I'm finding a new way to work

00:10:49.680 | that is more compatible with long-term happiness.

Balancing Audacious Goals and Family Life

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