Bogleheads® Conference 2023 - Clark Howard: Honing Your Consumer Skills

00:00:00.000 | [ Applause ]

00:00:06.200 | >> I am so excited to introduce you to our keynote speaker tonight.

00:00:11.720 | When we were talking about who would be a great keynote,

00:00:14.000 | last year we had Eric Belchunas.

00:00:15.800 | Many of you were there.

00:00:17.100 | And he was so good.

00:00:18.800 | But we wanted to capture that same level of engagement, humor,

00:00:24.960 | intelligence that Eric brought.

00:00:26.600 | And we thought, with Alan Roth's help,

00:00:30.120 | that Clark Howard would be a perfect person to be here.

00:00:33.680 | So Clark is a noted consumer advocate.

00:00:36.520 | He has one of the top podcasts for financial information out there,

00:00:43.480 | the Clark Howard Show.

00:00:46.080 | And in a lot of ways, it's a beautiful compliment to Bogleheads, I think,

00:00:50.720 | because Bogleheads is all about, you know, sort of figuring out how

00:00:54.640 | to invest your portfolio and save money on your investments.

00:00:58.880 | And Clark's work is all about how to spend in a way

00:01:02.960 | that kind of maximizes your value.

00:01:05.800 | So I think it just is a perfect compliment to the investment stuff

00:01:10.480 | that we think about all the time.

00:01:12.200 | Clark is going to talk for a while.

00:01:15.720 | And then he will also take your questions.

00:01:17.600 | So we have a mic here.

00:01:19.240 | We've been kind of holding back

00:01:20.640 | on the open mic thing during this conference.

00:01:23.000 | But for this part of the event, we will take your questions.

00:01:27.000 | Clark loves taking questions.

00:01:29.160 | And, yeah, so, you know, if you want to hear about how to score the best deal

00:01:33.600 | on an electric vehicle or, you know, vacation in Costa Rica

00:01:37.400 | or whatever, Clark's your guy.

00:01:39.400 | So we're looking forward to hearing from him.

00:01:41.400 | Clark, if you can come on up.

00:01:43.320 | Thank you.

00:01:45.120 | [ Applause ]

00:01:52.360 | Y'all ready for some fun?

00:01:56.320 | So it's so exciting for me to be in this room

00:02:02.960 | with people who are also frugal.

00:02:06.360 | [ Laughter ]

00:02:08.680 | But I will tell you, I am not frugal.

00:02:12.760 | I am cheap.

00:02:14.360 | [ Laughter ]

00:02:18.160 | Y'all know the difference between frugal and cheap?

00:02:21.960 | Cheap is when you'll take lower quality for a lower price.

00:02:25.160 | And that is me.

00:02:28.560 | And I have had a very unusual life.

00:02:32.960 | I grew up in the South.

00:02:36.280 | We didn't have child labor laws.

00:02:39.120 | And when I was growing up, I'm 68.

00:02:41.880 | So we really didn't when I was a kid.

00:02:44.520 | And so I had my first job when I was 11.

00:02:48.080 | I was working in a warehouse, not a very safe warehouse.

00:02:51.760 | And I started saving money then.

00:02:55.560 | And I opened Roth -- not Roth IRAs.

00:02:59.160 | Traditional IRAs first came along when I was a teen.

00:03:02.720 | And as soon as I could, I opened one and contributed to it.

00:03:08.220 | And I grew up in Atlanta and decided that what I wanted

00:03:14.280 | to do was be a politician.

00:03:18.320 | So nobody laughed when I said that.

00:03:21.760 | That was actually true.

00:03:23.240 | I wanted to be a politician.

00:03:25.800 | So I applied to one college, the best school in America

00:03:33.400 | for political science, Georgetown University.

00:03:37.000 | Any Georgetown graduates in here?

00:03:39.600 | We got one Georgetown graduate here.

00:03:42.640 | I didn't apply to any other schools.

00:03:45.040 | And then, this is before the internet, you got an envelope.

00:03:47.800 | You either got a thick envelope or a thin one.

00:03:51.440 | I got the thin one.

00:03:55.120 | I had missed the application to apply everywhere at that point.

00:04:02.000 | Well, American University, just down the road

00:04:04.480 | from here, really needed students.

00:04:07.440 | And they took me.

00:04:11.200 | So I enrolled at American to study political science.

00:04:15.840 | And when I came home from college my freshman year

00:04:20.160 | at Thanksgiving, my dad was looking terrible, looking awful.

00:04:29.360 | And we were at dinner that first night home

00:04:32.640 | from college at Thanksgiving.

00:04:34.760 | And nobody was smiling.

00:04:36.080 | Nobody was laughing.

00:04:37.720 | And I'm like, something's really wrong here.

00:04:41.360 | And after dinner, my dad asked me to stay at the table.

00:04:47.040 | And I'm like, this is it.

00:04:49.720 | And he said, I have something terrible to tell you.

00:04:53.320 | And he said, I got fired from my job.

00:04:58.560 | And I started smiling.

00:05:01.080 | And he said, why are you smiling?

00:05:03.320 | And I said, because I thought you were dying.

00:05:07.240 | And so then he said, there's no money for you

00:05:12.840 | to go back to college in January.

00:05:15.880 | And I was like, what?

00:05:18.640 | Because my parents lived a really high voltage life.

00:05:23.280 | I mean, really fancy life.

00:05:25.640 | They figured out how to be an American

00:05:27.920 | before Americans are now, where they

00:05:31.080 | lived on money they didn't have and all the rest.

00:05:34.560 | And so this was one of the most important events in my life,

00:05:40.760 | was what happened with my dad.

00:05:42.640 | And after a few years, my parents got back on their feet.

00:05:46.040 | But American turned out to be the luckiest break for me,

00:05:50.240 | because most of the students at American were night students.

00:05:54.080 | They worked full time and went to college at night.

00:05:57.960 | So all I did was I scrambled when

00:06:00.560 | I got back those three weeks between Thanksgiving

00:06:03.740 | and Christmas, and I got a job.

00:06:06.480 | And I got a job as--

00:06:09.200 | I don't know if this term will mean anything to anybody.

00:06:12.280 | I was a GS-4 with the federal government.

00:06:15.600 | Nobody's ever met a GS-4.

00:06:19.040 | But I was a GS-4.

00:06:20.760 | I was making $7,596--

00:06:23.720 | I'm not holding the mic close enough, am I?

00:06:26.120 | I was making $7,596 a year as a federal employee.

00:06:32.540 | Well, American was $2,400 a year.

00:06:35.840 | And I rented a really terrible apartment with a friend.

00:06:39.680 | And my rent was $124.50 a month.

00:06:44.160 | So I was able to work full time, go to college at night,

00:06:49.080 | get a degree, have not a penny of student loan debt,

00:06:53.720 | and get my degree.

00:06:54.640 | You can't do that now.

00:06:56.680 | I mean, you go to American now, and four years is $300,000.

00:07:02.520 | But back then, we didn't have all these fancy campuses

00:07:06.720 | and all the big expense.

00:07:08.480 | And so I was able to get my degree.

00:07:10.440 | But what happened was it changed me.

00:07:14.080 | And I resolved I was never going to live my life

00:07:17.560 | like my parents handled money.

00:07:20.280 | And something happens to you as a teenager.

00:07:22.520 | I don't know if anybody in this room

00:07:24.680 | had something happen to them as a teenager.

00:07:27.000 | But it changes you.

00:07:28.720 | It changes you if something traumatic

00:07:30.960 | happens when you're a teen.

00:07:33.800 | And so I resolved that I was going

00:07:36.840 | to live on every other paycheck.

00:07:40.720 | And so I saved, starting at 20 years old--

00:07:44.760 | because that's when I graduated from American--

00:07:47.720 | I lived on every other paycheck.

00:07:51.400 | And grad school, I got paid for for free

00:07:55.680 | because I left the government.

00:07:58.600 | I was a GS-5 by then, for those of you

00:08:00.520 | who know what that is.

00:08:02.600 | And I got a job at IBM as a bill collector.

00:08:08.120 | And they paid for my grad school.

00:08:11.960 | And I actually did OK as a bill collector,

00:08:15.920 | but I hated the job.

00:08:17.800 | So as soon as I finished grad school, I quit.

00:08:20.880 | But anyway, I got my master's degree for nothing in business.

00:08:26.160 | Because the truth is, after three years

00:08:29.440 | with the federal government, it wasn't for me.

00:08:32.680 | And I decided politics wasn't my thing.

00:08:36.000 | But the reason I mention this is that it worked for me.

00:08:40.920 | I lived on much less than what I make.

00:08:43.480 | And you think about the principles

00:08:45.960 | of what so much in the culture in this room,

00:08:49.580 | it is about living on less than what you make.

00:08:53.560 | I deal with consumers every day on the podcast, radio, TV,

00:09:00.040 | wherever.

00:09:00.560 | We do websites and all this stuff.

00:09:03.040 | And one of the biggest problems that we face

00:09:08.040 | is someone will come to us.

00:09:10.960 | And the problem is, they're in debt past their eyeballs.

00:09:15.880 | We just hit a record on credit card debt in the United States.

00:09:19.960 | I think it's $1.1 trillion collectively

00:09:23.360 | in credit card debt.

00:09:24.960 | How are you supposed to save for a rainy day?

00:09:27.880 | How are you supposed to save for your kid's college?

00:09:30.760 | How are you supposed to save for retirement

00:09:33.480 | when you owe all that money to Visa and MasterCard

00:09:37.880 | at the average bank interest rate now, 22%?

00:09:42.880 | Now, if you know somebody who's in credit card debt,

00:09:47.200 | they need to know this.

00:09:48.760 | Do you know the average interest rate

00:09:51.320 | at a credit union for a credit card is 12%?

00:09:54.800 | And I've always referred to Vanguard,

00:10:01.240 | to my listeners and my viewers, as a credit union

00:10:06.360 | for investing.

00:10:07.820 | I've always thought of it that way,

00:10:09.280 | and that's how I've always explained it.

00:10:11.920 | And when you think about what it's always been about,

00:10:15.680 | it's been about by and for the members.

00:10:20.280 | But you know, that's only one part

00:10:23.200 | of what makes a company great.

00:10:26.600 | The first part is you have to treat your employees well.

00:10:33.000 | The great companies treat their employees well,

00:10:37.840 | and in turn, treat their customers well.

00:10:40.940 | Business is complex.

00:10:42.520 | Business can be complicated.

00:10:44.520 | But when you treat your employees well

00:10:47.680 | and your customers well, even if you're

00:10:49.880 | in a complicated business, you will find your customers,

00:10:55.240 | and they will find you.

00:10:57.320 | Because you're doing the right thing,

00:10:59.960 | and you're treating your employees well.

00:11:03.000 | And there are very few companies--

00:11:04.560 | it's the simplest thing in capitalism,

00:11:06.680 | enlightened self-interest.

00:11:08.640 | Do right by your employees and your customers.

00:11:13.960 | And I think about two companies in retail.

00:11:17.760 | One of them, we have a dog named Kirkland Signature.

00:11:21.920 | [LAUGHTER]

00:11:25.280 | And you think I'm kidding.

00:11:33.000 | No.

00:11:34.400 | The deal is my wife gets to have dogs, but I get to name them.

00:11:38.500 | So we used to have a dog named Costco Wholesale,

00:11:41.000 | and unfortunately, she's passed away.

00:11:44.560 | So now we have Kirkland Signature.

00:11:47.240 | And do you know that Kirkland Signature

00:11:50.000 | will sell $60 billion as a brand in '23,

00:11:55.160 | one of the world's most successful brand names?

00:11:57.560 | It's not even a brand name.

00:12:00.040 | But Costco pays their employees incredibly well,

00:12:05.080 | gives part-timers full health benefits,

00:12:08.720 | has a markup on the merchandise in the store of 14%,

00:12:12.720 | unless it's Kirkland Signature, when it's 15%.

00:12:17.960 | Everything they're about is value.

00:12:21.200 | And they are now the third largest retailer in the world,

00:12:25.080 | I think, from nothing.

00:12:30.000 | They started in 1984, or three.

00:12:33.080 | And they are this monstrously large company.

00:12:36.520 | And they've done it because they treat their employees well,

00:12:41.080 | and they treat their customers well.

00:12:42.800 | Now, I'm a Sam's Club member as well.

00:12:44.420 | Do we have any Sam's Club members?

00:12:46.720 | Do we have any Sam's Club members that are also

00:12:49.080 | Costco members?

00:12:50.120 | Raise your hand.

00:12:51.520 | OK, so let's take a trip down each store's checkout.

00:12:58.160 | So you're in Costco, and you get the front,

00:13:00.680 | and they're checking you out.

00:13:01.920 | They have two people working each register,

00:13:04.120 | and they're hustling.

00:13:05.980 | And if they've got a price problem,

00:13:08.080 | there's not a SKU, not a barcode on something,

00:13:12.000 | one of those Costco people takes the item, runs back.

00:13:15.460 | You tell them where you think you found it in the store.

00:13:17.720 | They run back there, and they find it,

00:13:20.200 | and they run back to the front.

00:13:23.560 | What do they do at Sam's Club when you get to the front,

00:13:26.760 | and the item doesn't have a SKU on it, or doesn't ring up?

00:13:31.120 | They'll say, it doesn't have a SKU.

00:13:35.200 | And they look at you like, what are you going to do about it?

00:13:39.280 | It's got to be both.

00:13:45.000 | You've got to take care of the employee

00:13:47.720 | so they can take care of the customer.

00:13:51.520 | And that's the thing.

00:13:54.000 | It's easy.

00:13:55.380 | It's simple.

00:13:55.980 | Business is hard.

00:13:57.800 | But we make it harder in capitalism

00:14:00.080 | than we need to because we forget that.

00:14:02.840 | You know, I believe that Walmart, the parent

00:14:06.480 | company of Sam's Club, is one of the greatest anti-poverty

00:14:10.280 | programs in the history of the world,

00:14:13.600 | that they have the most efficient distribution

00:14:17.200 | system for consumer goods of anybody on planet Earth.

00:14:22.640 | And the prices are great and all that.

00:14:25.920 | But they only do half of it.

00:14:29.000 | They only do half of it.

00:14:30.440 | They do the pricing right.

00:14:32.360 | They don't treat the employees right.

00:14:35.040 | And that's why when you go to Sam's Club, which they own,

00:14:38.800 | or you go to a Walmart, it's just really

00:14:42.720 | a difficult experience for the employees working there

00:14:46.040 | and the customers buying there.

00:14:49.600 | And so that's the thing.

00:14:51.440 | You think about how many-- can anybody name another company

00:14:55.520 | that you think does that combination?

00:14:57.920 | Vanguard, and we've got also my Costco people, Chick-fil-A.

00:15:04.240 | All right, who knows the history of why

00:15:08.080 | Chick-fil-A does a better job at their stores

00:15:12.200 | than any other fast food restaurant other than Culver's?

00:15:16.560 | If anybody knows Culver's from the Midwest?

00:15:19.720 | Which custard do you like best at Culver's?

00:15:22.880 | I like the butter burger with Swiss cheese.

00:15:25.600 | OK, so what is the magic--

00:15:29.560 | and this is a capitalist thing-- what

00:15:31.080 | is the magic of Chick-fil-A and Culver's?

00:15:34.840 | Who knows how they operate?

00:15:36.760 | They make them better than everybody else in fast food.

00:15:39.320 | And we have a mic right here.

00:15:41.000 | Somebody knows the story.

00:15:42.240 | They get the Sundays off.

00:15:44.300 | It's not the Sundays off.

00:15:45.720 | Culver's is seven days a week.

00:15:48.480 | [INAUDIBLE]

00:15:51.960 | Who said it?

00:15:54.120 | Who just said it?

00:15:55.120 | You said it.

00:15:55.640 | Will you stand up?

00:15:57.320 | Say it so everybody can hear you on the mic.

00:15:59.720 | They're not franchise.

00:16:01.120 | That is exactly right.

00:16:03.760 | If you look at the capitalist arrangement

00:16:06.920 | between a McDonald's store like the one across here

00:16:10.600 | and McDonald's corporate in Illinois,

00:16:15.360 | the franchise and the store are arch rivals with each other,

00:16:19.920 | right?

00:16:21.200 | Because all McDonald's wants is they want their royalties.

00:16:25.160 | And all the store wants is they want to make money.

00:16:29.200 | But McDonald's is always forcing the operators

00:16:33.120 | into all these discounts they don't want to do

00:16:35.500 | and hours they have to be open.

00:16:36.800 | And it's an adversarial relationship.

00:16:40.040 | And now the states all have these franchise laws

00:16:44.840 | where McDonald's and all the other owners of franchises

00:16:47.680 | can't kick out a bad operator.

00:16:50.880 | Chick-fil-A and Culver's, the way they do it

00:16:54.480 | is you're an operator.

00:16:56.920 | You don't have to put any money in.

00:17:00.320 | You operate that store at their pleasure.

00:17:04.760 | If they decide you're not performing

00:17:06.960 | or you're not treating your employees well,

00:17:09.040 | you're out instantly.

00:17:12.080 | And the employee operator and the company

00:17:18.200 | split the profits 50/50.

00:17:20.920 | The interests are aligned.

00:17:24.880 | Chick-fil-A sells something like $5.7 million per location.

00:17:32.840 | A Burger King right now might do $500,000 a location.

00:17:38.240 | And it's because they got the incentives right,

00:17:41.520 | the motivation.

00:17:42.880 | The employees are motivated to be there.

00:17:46.080 | They are treated well.

00:17:47.000 | They're given college scholarship money

00:17:48.760 | if they're in high school.

00:17:50.920 | This isn't hard.

00:17:53.360 | You just treat people right.

00:17:57.480 | And I have done it in my own life, my own business.

00:18:00.440 | I have 44 employees with my company.

00:18:04.640 | And what I do for my employees is each year

00:18:10.280 | I do three special things.

00:18:12.640 | One, I take them on a shopping spree every Christmas

00:18:17.720 | based on our profits.

00:18:19.320 | They're given money and Costco.

00:18:21.560 | And they're given one hour to run around and spend it.

00:18:24.240 | Second, I take them on a trip wherever in the world

00:18:33.280 | I find that's on sale.

00:18:37.000 | So earlier this year, we went to Singapore and Thailand

00:18:41.640 | because it was on sale.

00:18:44.400 | And every year, we go wherever.

00:18:46.520 | So people keep asking, where are we going on the trip in '24?

00:18:50.080 | I said, wherever goes on sale.

00:18:53.440 | And so we've been to every continent except Antarctica.

00:18:57.240 | We go wherever.

00:18:58.980 | And they so look forward to it.

00:19:01.080 | But the cool thing is their friends

00:19:03.360 | who work wherever else they work,

00:19:05.240 | they tell them they're going on the trip.

00:19:06.960 | And they're like, you're doing what?

00:19:09.320 | Yeah, it's something we got at work.

00:19:11.400 | And they're just blown away.

00:19:13.480 | But it creates this special sense of reward.

00:19:19.480 | But the third thing I do is I take

00:19:23.320 | 50% of my company's profits each year,

00:19:26.720 | and I pay them out to the employees.

00:19:29.960 | And so the employees totally operate, think like owners.

00:19:38.200 | When COVID hit, and it was so disruptive to so many

00:19:42.240 | businesses, and our revenue--

00:19:46.200 | because we live by ad revenue on our websites,

00:19:50.160 | on our podcasts, newsletters.

00:19:54.280 | All the stuff we do is all ad-supported.

00:19:57.080 | Well, those of you who are in ad-supported businesses,

00:20:01.560 | we were dying when COVID happened.

00:20:04.640 | Not literally, thank goodness.

00:20:06.760 | But anyway, financially, we were.

00:20:11.560 | And there we were in April, May, June.

00:20:15.920 | And suddenly, we didn't have money coming in.

00:20:19.600 | My employees worked their tails off and kept working.

00:20:24.960 | And the ad revenues started coming back in July

00:20:28.320 | and was fully restored by about September.

00:20:31.800 | But they weren't going anywhere because they

00:20:34.000 | believed in the mission of serving our audience.

00:20:37.960 | And they also knew how they were being treated

00:20:40.720 | and that they were part of the team.

00:20:44.360 | And this is the way we should be in business.

00:20:48.240 | And so there's something we were talking about the other day.

00:20:52.200 | You know, in that slide earlier about Jack Bogle,

00:20:56.640 | they were talking about the four giants

00:20:59.560 | of the financial industry.

00:21:02.360 | Did anybody notice who the second one was?

00:21:06.520 | It was Chuck Schwab.

00:21:09.240 | So he and Jack Bogle were, to me, the two great disruptors

00:21:18.000 | in what had been a very closed society in investing.

00:21:22.040 | And Chuck Schwab's a brilliant man.

00:21:26.480 | But Schwab, without him operating it day to day,

00:21:31.720 | it's lost its way a little bit.

00:21:33.760 | Anybody have a Schwab account?

00:21:35.680 | You're not going to get in trouble saying

00:21:36.840 | you have a Schwab account.

00:21:39.520 | So it probably looked like about a fourth of people

00:21:42.280 | have a Schwab account.

00:21:43.920 | What do you earn at Schwab on your EIDL cash in your account?

00:21:48.920 | 0.45.

00:21:49.960 | 0.45%.

00:21:53.040 | 0.45.

00:21:55.400 | What do you earn at Vanguard on your EIDL cash?

00:21:59.560 | Right now, right around upper fours to five,

00:22:02.040 | depending on what you have in it, five plus.

00:22:06.120 | The brilliant people running Schwab now

00:22:08.360 | decided, you know, we're going to make

00:22:10.840 | a lot of money on the spread.

00:22:13.480 | We're going to pay people.

00:22:15.480 | We're going to sweep their EIDL cash into something.

00:22:18.280 | We're going to pay them 0.45.

00:22:19.600 | Then we're going to turn around, and we're going to lend it,

00:22:22.140 | and we're going to earn five plus percent on it.

00:22:25.840 | And I don't know how Chuck's letting that go on,

00:22:33.080 | because that's not how you treat people.

00:22:38.120 | It's really so easy.

00:22:41.120 | Treat people right.

00:22:44.160 | And I love capitalism.

00:22:47.880 | I love it.

00:22:48.600 | I am a free enterpriser.

00:22:50.320 | I know my kids have grown up in these situations in school

00:22:56.960 | where they've been taught that capitalists are evil

00:23:01.080 | and dishonest and all these things.

00:23:04.120 | And it's not.

00:23:07.080 | Capitalism is great.

00:23:09.040 | And some of the decisions people make

00:23:11.200 | don't show enlightened self-interest, which is key.

00:23:15.320 | But enough about that stuff, because now it's

00:23:17.360 | time to talk about fun stuff.

00:23:20.120 | I want to-- and then we're going to go to questions.

00:23:23.600 | So I want to talk about travel for a second.

00:23:28.880 | The travel industry suddenly is starting

00:23:33.240 | to see softness with customers.

00:23:37.560 | And anybody who's traveled to Europe in the last year,

00:23:41.400 | you paid a lot to go to Europe in points or dollars

00:23:44.320 | or whatever.

00:23:45.480 | Now Europe's starting to soften.

00:23:47.000 | I looked this afternoon.

00:23:49.840 | And for travel November through February,

00:23:54.760 | these fares are from New York.

00:23:56.240 | But they're representative of the fares happening

00:23:58.360 | around the country.

00:24:00.240 | Rome is now 420.

00:24:02.960 | Lisbon, 470.

00:24:05.480 | Dublin, 380.

00:24:07.760 | London, 460.

00:24:10.400 | And this isn't just on some really terrible airline.

00:24:16.320 | It's on several terrible airlines, like American--

00:24:18.920 | [LAUGHTER]

00:24:25.320 | --American, United, Delta, Lufthansa, British Airways,

00:24:29.600 | Air Canada.

00:24:31.080 | And there are sales all over the place.

00:24:33.600 | And does anybody have what used to be called SkyMiles that

00:24:36.560 | are now called SkyPennies?

00:24:38.360 | [LAUGHTER]

00:24:40.840 | So those of you with SkyPennies, Delta

00:24:45.960 | is really getting a lot of bad wave of publicity.

00:24:48.800 | So they did a sale today for people with SkyMiles as coach.

00:24:53.720 | But London starts at 34,000 points round trip

00:24:59.160 | from the East Coast and goes up to 59,000 on the West Coast.

00:25:03.240 | People have been booking it like crazy today.

00:25:05.440 | But if you have SkyPennies, try to book this,

00:25:09.160 | because it is such a deal.

00:25:11.160 | And Delta is doing a deal with Sydney, Australia

00:25:13.640 | from the West Coast for 80,000 SkyMiles round trip.

00:25:17.920 | Those are cheap deals.

00:25:20.000 | In fact, I got it from my son-in-law

00:25:23.200 | for 59,000 just recently on Delta.

00:25:27.720 | So the travel industry is going through a lot of disruption

00:25:32.880 | now.

00:25:33.920 | And so there are a lot, a lot of deals.

00:25:37.360 | But my main rule you heard me allude to earlier,

00:25:41.480 | I never, ever pick a destination.

00:25:45.600 | I only find a bargain, buy it, and then figure out

00:25:49.560 | why I'm going there.

00:25:50.560 | [LAUGHTER]

00:25:53.080 | And that is absolutely the key with travel.

00:25:56.560 | Because what most people do is they pick a destination

00:26:01.960 | and they say, I want to go on, I don't know, March 16.

00:26:07.880 | And I got to come back March 23.

00:26:10.680 | And I got to go to Paris.

00:26:13.320 | And it needs to be nonstop.

00:26:16.320 | And they're like, why is it $1,650?

00:26:21.000 | Because the more you narrow your options,

00:26:25.280 | the more you're going to pay.

00:26:27.240 | With travel, the more opportunistic you can be,

00:26:30.620 | I promise, you'll see the whole world if you just

00:26:35.880 | buy the deals.

00:26:37.600 | Now, I've gone, I'm telling you,

00:26:39.440 | I've been to every continent repeatedly.

00:26:42.880 | But it's always the deal that takes me there.

00:26:47.040 | And so our next deal is we're going

00:26:49.680 | to Amsterdam for Thanksgiving week,

00:26:54.000 | because JetBlue had Amsterdam for Thanksgiving week

00:26:58.200 | for $399 round trip.

00:27:01.360 | Now, we didn't get the $399.

00:27:02.920 | We got $469.

00:27:04.680 | But I mean, that's good.

00:27:07.460 | And so you let the bargain drive what you do.

00:27:13.240 | Although, I won't fly Frontier.

00:27:15.280 | [LAUGHTER]

00:27:18.640 | If Frontier paid me, maybe I would.

00:27:23.560 | They've got some customer service problems.

00:27:26.240 | But Spirit is, compared to Frontier,

00:27:30.520 | Spirit's like going on, I don't know, on Singapore or something

00:27:35.720 | like that.

00:27:37.280 | Frontier is the bottom, bottom, bottom.

00:27:41.000 | Their CEO is really an interesting guy.

00:27:44.160 | Anyway, but what I do with my audience,

00:27:50.320 | our slogan is save more, spend less,

00:27:54.160 | and avoid getting ripped off.

00:27:56.360 | And what we do is we teach our audience

00:28:00.240 | how to take expenses in their lives

00:28:03.800 | and reduce them so they have money to save for their future,

00:28:07.920 | to live on less than what they make.

00:28:10.480 | And I use a number of strategies.

00:28:12.680 | But there are certain areas that didn't

00:28:15.320 | used to exist that now eat a meaningful chunk of people's

00:28:20.560 | life each and every month.

00:28:23.120 | I see so many people with their smartphones.

00:28:26.880 | And the really smart ones have Androids.

00:28:28.800 | But anyway, I see so many people with smartphones.

00:28:35.360 | What are you paying for your plan?

00:28:37.520 | And the reality is, we were talking about this

00:28:40.200 | over at this table.

00:28:42.040 | So how many people are Verizon?

00:28:43.400 | Who just said visible?

00:28:48.880 | Are you invisible?

00:28:51.600 | 15 a month.

00:28:52.440 | So Verizon is having to play blocker because

00:28:56.640 | of all the new discounters.

00:28:58.600 | So Verizon has a discounter that I call invisible

00:29:01.880 | because they don't promote it.

00:29:03.440 | It's just a defensive thing where

00:29:05.680 | you get the same Verizon branded service,

00:29:09.520 | but you get it from their discounter visible

00:29:11.680 | that they own 100%.

00:29:12.880 | It's just a brand name of theirs.

00:29:15.600 | And what you pay Verizon $100 a month for,

00:29:18.560 | you pay visible $25 for unlimited everything.

00:29:23.600 | And each of the cell phone carriers have this.

00:29:27.080 | No, AT&T has Cricket.

00:29:29.960 | T-Mobile has Metro.

00:29:32.360 | And so they all have these blockers

00:29:36.080 | that are defensive, that are geared really

00:29:38.960 | towards people under 35.

00:29:42.000 | But there's no reason any of us can't use these services.

00:29:46.320 | And you're on the same exact network, same towers,

00:29:50.800 | same everything.

00:29:52.280 | And these companies are owned-- they're not companies.

00:29:55.280 | They're just brand names of each of the big ones.

00:29:58.840 | So there's so many things like that.

00:30:03.080 | Like what's going on right now with streaming.

00:30:06.480 | I mean, the cost of streaming is going through the roof.

00:30:11.480 | And so we have a tool on Clark.com

00:30:15.840 | where you can put in your favorite channel

00:30:19.360 | that you like to watch.

00:30:21.200 | And it'll tell you what it's going

00:30:23.760 | to cost you per month on the cheapest streaming service

00:30:26.400 | that'll get you that.

00:30:27.600 | And then you put in your second favorite channel

00:30:29.600 | and your third, and on like that.

00:30:31.400 | And then you hit a point where you're like, uh-oh.

00:30:33.960 | It just went from 30 a month to 70

00:30:37.000 | because I added this channel or that channel.

00:30:40.280 | And so if you learn to treat money

00:30:44.000 | as a precious finite resource, and you

00:30:47.200 | learn how to squeeze every penny, every dollar,

00:30:52.200 | it's so easy.

00:30:54.640 | And so that's what we're really about,

00:30:57.400 | is teaching people how to take all these things in their lives

00:31:02.600 | and do them for less.

00:31:04.800 | And you don't have to do what I do,

00:31:06.840 | lower quality for a lower price.

00:31:09.520 | You can stick with good quality and still get a better price.

00:31:14.520 | And I'm ready-- who wants to ask the first question at the mic?

00:31:18.760 | Just go right back there.

00:31:19.760 | Just go ahead.

00:31:21.120 | And if you don't mind, say your name

00:31:23.360 | and where in the country you live,

00:31:25.320 | because the geographical dispersion and diversity

00:31:29.520 | of this group is amazing, where everybody's all from.

00:31:34.360 | [INAUDIBLE] from Greenville, South Carolina.

00:31:38.760 | Do you have a job or an internship?

00:31:40.880 | [LAUGHTER]

00:31:43.880 | [APPLAUSE]

00:31:51.360 | I'm asked that a lot, actually, when people

00:31:53.600 | hear about our travel and stuff.

00:31:57.600 | By the way, this will really surprise you.

00:31:59.880 | We have no turnover.

00:32:01.240 | [LAUGHTER]

00:32:04.580 | Clark, thank you so much for everything you do.

00:32:06.580 | I wrote down the question.

00:32:09.080 | And it is, consumer advocacy is a significant part

00:32:11.680 | of your work.

00:32:12.800 | What are some of the most pressing consumer issues people

00:32:15.480 | should be aware of right now?

00:32:18.200 | So the number one thing is people getting scammed.

00:32:21.920 | And the pretexting scams--

00:32:24.640 | who has not gotten an email, or a text, or a phone call

00:32:28.840 | from somebody pretending to be from Bank of America,

00:32:31.760 | or Wells Fargo, or Chase, or Citi?

00:32:34.240 | Or if they have cracked your identity,

00:32:37.360 | the exact financial institution you do business with.

00:32:41.080 | And we're putting people on TV who've lost

00:32:45.720 | massive amounts of money.

00:32:47.480 | And there's no getting the money back

00:32:50.600 | once you've been scammed by a pretext,

00:32:52.640 | or pretending to be from your bank, or your brokerage,

00:32:56.280 | or from a financial house.

00:32:59.320 | Thanks.

00:33:00.000 | Sure.

00:33:00.500 | Hi, there.

00:33:04.700 | I'm Adrienne.

00:33:05.600 | I used to live in Atlanta over 20 years ago.

00:33:08.160 | And I would listen to you on talk radio.

00:33:11.400 | And since I moved, I've kind of lost touch with you.

00:33:14.120 | So it's really good to hear you.

00:33:16.120 | And I'm going to pick up your podcast

00:33:17.960 | and start listening to them again.

00:33:19.400 | Thank you.

00:33:19.680 | Where in the country do you live now?

00:33:21.220 | I live in Arlington, Texas now.

00:33:23.160 | Austin, Texas?

00:33:24.360 | Arlington, which is outside of Dallas.

00:33:25.960 | Oh, OK.

00:33:26.440 | Yeah.

00:33:27.600 | My question-- since I haven't listened to you in so long,

00:33:30.840 | I don't think 0% credit cards were out back then.

00:33:34.440 | But I take advantage of them now.

00:33:36.840 | I was just sharing with my table there.

00:33:38.440 | I use them for house renovations.

00:33:41.480 | Our house is paid off, so I'll just take it and get the points.

00:33:44.840 | I don't have any credit card debt.

00:33:46.440 | I would be interested in hearing what

00:33:48.760 | you have to say about 0% credit cards.

00:33:52.360 | If you're using them as a payment system,

00:33:54.480 | and you get it paid off within the 12 months, 18 months,

00:33:58.760 | whatever, 24 of the zero, I have no problem with that.

00:34:03.560 | That's not an issue, as long as it's a method of finance

00:34:09.480 | that you use.

00:34:11.080 | The thing that's really on our radar right now

00:34:13.280 | are these pay-in-fours, the buy now, pay later.

00:34:17.840 | And those are blowing up on people.

00:34:20.040 | I don't get a lot of problems about what you're doing.

00:34:23.520 | I'm getting tons about pay-in-four,

00:34:26.520 | where you get to the register, or you're

00:34:28.400 | buying something online.

00:34:29.960 | And they say, would you like to pay this in four easy payments?

00:34:33.840 | And pretty much a fourth of people doing that

00:34:38.160 | have ruined their credit, because they don't get

00:34:40.800 | the pay-in-four done on time.

00:34:42.840 | They end up in the hands of a collection agency.

00:34:45.200 | They end up with interest and penalty payments

00:34:49.360 | that they thought it was free doing the pay-in-four.

00:34:52.720 | But there's no give on that.

00:34:54.960 | In your case, you know you're getting six months, 12 months,

00:34:58.880 | 18, whatever it is you're getting on the 0% intro on it.

00:35:03.640 | So that's fine.

00:35:04.520 | Yeah, absolutely.

00:35:07.120 | That's how we do it.

00:35:09.440 | Like, say, for example, if I'm getting a new air conditioner,

00:35:11.960 | it's $10,000.

00:35:13.400 | If they're going to charge me a fee to use a credit card,

00:35:16.520 | then we just pay cash.

00:35:18.400 | But if I can do it with a 0% and get the reward,

00:35:21.000 | and then just pay it right off, then we will just do it that

00:35:23.840 | way.

00:35:24.340 | Now, do you need a new AC?

00:35:25.460 | Because if you do, get a heat pump instead of AC.

00:35:27.800 | Oh, I've got to start back to listening to you.

00:35:31.440 | Much more economical, and you can get big federal tax credits

00:35:34.920 | right now.

00:35:35.440 | I got it.

00:35:36.000 | I'll be back to listening to you.

00:35:37.440 | Thank you.

00:35:37.940 | Hello, Clark.

00:35:42.720 | Hi.

00:35:43.360 | Where are you from?

00:35:44.280 | I'm Rob from Colorado Springs.

00:35:46.040 | And I didn't--

00:35:47.360 | Y'all know each other?

00:35:49.320 | This guy's from Colorado Springs, too.

00:35:50.920 | We actually met once a few years back.

00:35:53.560 | So I didn't save the easy question for you.

00:35:57.240 | I got a hard one.

00:35:59.600 | I'd like to talk about health insurance.

00:36:01.600 | For those who are retiring before Medicare eligibility,

00:36:05.760 | you know your choices are COBRA, maybe.

00:36:09.280 | Don't do COBRA right now.

00:36:10.920 | OK.

00:36:11.560 | OK, that's a good piece of advice.

00:36:13.760 | And the Affordable Health Care Act, ACA,

00:36:17.480 | which often leads to very narrow networks,

00:36:21.360 | no out-of-state coverage for those of us who like to travel.

00:36:25.520 | This seems like a tough nut to crack.

00:36:27.560 | Yeah, so what I've recommended for people

00:36:31.200 | who are 50-plus, up to 64, is that you

00:36:36.640 | do an HSA-eligible, high-deductible plan

00:36:40.680 | on healthcare.gov.

00:36:42.720 | Because if you do the HSA-eligible,

00:36:45.160 | high-deductible plan, usually you're

00:36:47.760 | not going to be restricted on network

00:36:50.560 | like you are in a traditional plan

00:36:54.640 | that you would buy on healthcare.gov.

00:36:57.080 | The networks in a lot of places--

00:36:59.400 | here in Colorado Springs, your network's

00:37:01.600 | going to be much more narrow than it

00:37:03.680 | would be for somebody in Denver or somebody in Phoenix.

00:37:07.560 | So it's tough for you.

00:37:09.940 | And that's why I would look through the choices

00:37:12.960 | and see if you can find an HSA-eligible,

00:37:15.080 | high-deductible that allows you the freedom

00:37:18.320 | to go where you want.

00:37:20.320 | OK, thank you.

00:37:21.480 | And by the way, for the HSA money,

00:37:24.440 | don't put it in some terrible HSA savings account.

00:37:28.760 | You can invest that money.

00:37:30.800 | And I don't know if there are lightning bolts in here.

00:37:34.840 | Fidelity is doing the best job I know of on investments

00:37:39.560 | for HSA money.

00:37:42.040 | Well--

00:37:44.040 | What's that?

00:37:44.680 | [INAUDIBLE]

00:37:46.160 | That's right.

00:37:47.960 | You get a tax deduction up front, it grows tax-free,

00:37:51.480 | and you spend it tax-free.

00:37:53.520 | The company I work for already chose Fidelity for our HSA.

00:37:56.680 | Thank you.

00:37:57.360 | Sure.

00:37:59.560 | Am I in a lot of trouble?

00:38:01.680 | I mentioned Chuck, I mentioned Fidelity.

00:38:05.080 | No, let me give you some trouble.

00:38:07.200 | Oh, sure.

00:38:08.840 | I'm the site administrator.

00:38:10.160 | I'm Lady Geek from the Philadelphia area.

00:38:12.760 | As soon as you said avoid COBRA, that hit an alarm bell with me.

00:38:16.840 | I was-- last year, a year before,

00:38:19.160 | I was in the same situation.

00:38:21.200 | I retired, but I was not eligible.

00:38:26.720 | I didn't want to go on ACA for a while, so I went on COBRA.

00:38:30.520 | Why did-- why would I go on COBRA?

00:38:32.920 | It was cheaper, actually, because I

00:38:35.480 | work with an insurance-- a medical insurance broker.

00:38:39.440 | They are fantastic.

00:38:41.160 | Not a life insurance, a medical insurance broker.

00:38:43.520 | They're all over the place.

00:38:44.680 | It's a guy I've been dealing with for years.

00:38:47.360 | What he made me aware of is that you're--

00:38:51.160 | of course, COBRA, you pay your share plus the employer's share

00:38:54.680 | plus 2% administrative fee for 18 months.

00:38:58.920 | What he told me was that the policy premiums paid

00:39:03.160 | by the employer are based on the average age of the workforce.

00:39:08.440 | So your workforce average age is like 30s.

00:39:11.560 | So I am like 60-something.

00:39:13.280 | OK, I'm going to get 65 next-- oh, my god.

00:39:16.920 | So I actually checked.

00:39:18.520 | He gave me the rate sheets for the Philadelphia area insurance.

00:39:22.720 | And I compared the rate sheets for someone

00:39:25.120 | 60 in the ACA marketplace versus the COBRA cost.

00:39:29.640 | It was a little more than half to be on COBRA.

00:39:33.320 | It was a huge, huge savings.

00:39:35.920 | So I went on COBRA.

00:39:36.720 | I'm so interested in hearing that because I've not

00:39:38.800 | heard that before, so I appreciate the correction

00:39:41.240 | from you.

00:39:42.000 | Yeah, so be careful.

00:39:43.240 | So first of all, yeah, because, I mean, you're dealing here.

00:39:46.120 | You want to give general advice, of course.

00:39:47.920 | But the advantage of having an insurance agent for something--

00:39:52.840 | I mean, it doesn't hurt to do yourself.

00:39:54.480 | But to have someone with that level of experience--

00:39:56.800 | I mean, I called him up and said--

00:39:58.840 | and it was like an instant answer.

00:40:00.560 | I said, why?

00:40:01.840 | So he sent me the rate sheets for his insurance.

00:40:05.640 | And he was right.

00:40:06.640 | So be careful.

00:40:07.960 | Just be aware that the workforce premiums are based not

00:40:11.680 | on your individual age.

00:40:12.920 | Because remember, everybody pays the same premium.

00:40:14.960 | So they base it on the average age.

00:40:16.520 | So your premium increases with your age.

00:40:19.880 | So if you're in the 60s, the ACA marketplace price

00:40:23.280 | will be a lot more than if you were in the 30s.

00:40:25.240 | So you want to use this price, the lower price range.

00:40:28.640 | Thank you for that.

00:40:29.480 | OK.

00:40:32.120 | Clark, thank you for what you do.

00:40:33.520 | I'm very upset.

00:40:34.520 | I'm very upset about the Phillies

00:40:36.400 | beating my Braves three games to one, two years in a row.

00:40:42.960 | Typical Philadelphia fan giving it to me.

00:40:46.040 | OK.

00:40:54.320 | Thanks, Clark.

00:40:55.400 | I do listen to your podcast.

00:40:56.960 | And I think you do something for us instead of something to us.

00:40:59.600 | And so I kind of like the consumer advocate.

00:41:02.520 | Richard Boyd from Lexington, South Carolina.

00:41:05.440 | I've run a business for 40 years.

00:41:07.440 | And like many people, have the sky pennies,

00:41:10.040 | but have collected a lot of air miles over the years

00:41:12.200 | that I really was saving for personal

00:41:14.480 | when it wasn't business to use.

00:41:16.320 | And you read the points guy, you read these folks

00:41:19.480 | about how you can take advantage of the best air miles award

00:41:23.040 | points.

00:41:23.880 | And so about a year ago, Forbes ran an article

00:41:26.440 | on the top 10 points concierge people that'll do it for you.

00:41:30.840 | For like $200, they'll search out the best flights

00:41:34.080 | to Amsterdam or to London.

00:41:35.720 | If you're not finding the cheapest fare that's on sale,

00:41:38.080 | which works, and I appreciate that.

00:41:41.040 | And I used it and it was fantastic.

00:41:42.560 | I didn't know if you'd had any interest in that.

00:41:44.960 | What they ended up telling me was,

00:41:46.920 | are you willing to reposition?

00:41:48.160 | Because Charlotte is not a very friendly airport

00:41:51.080 | to use air miles.

00:41:51.840 | And it'll cost you twice as much.

00:41:53.520 | But I can get you business class to Amsterdam for 52,000 miles

00:41:58.000 | versus out of Charlotte for 100,000 miles.

00:42:00.360 | And so those points concierge, I don't

00:42:02.240 | have the bandwidth, the search.

00:42:04.120 | Although I think they've got a word hacker now

00:42:06.000 | that you can do it on your own.

00:42:07.320 | But I don't know if you had any input.

00:42:09.600 | I'm glad you mentioned that, because I

00:42:11.200 | meant to mention that earlier and I forgot,

00:42:13.840 | that there was a new extensive study that

00:42:16.200 | found that international airfares to Europe

00:42:20.200 | are much, much, much cheaper out of New York

00:42:23.960 | on average versus anywhere else.

00:42:25.680 | The second cheapest city to fly out of is Boston.

00:42:30.080 | But I can't fly out of Boston because the Patriots

00:42:32.440 | beat my Falcons in the Super Bowl.

00:42:35.000 | But it is true that the departure point matters so

00:42:39.960 | much.

00:42:40.460 | And we do this a lot, where we go to the gateway.

00:42:43.800 | We're going to Australia in January.

00:42:48.400 | And the fare out of LAX was so much cheaper

00:42:52.600 | than going from back east that I bought tickets on Southwest

00:42:57.320 | to the West Coast.

00:42:59.040 | And then we're getting on Delta at LA.

00:43:02.340 | And the savings for five of us were just unbelievably

00:43:08.760 | different.

00:43:09.800 | So yeah, the departure point gateway for international

00:43:13.280 | is everything, whether you're using points or using dollars.

00:43:18.840 | The point.me was the one website.

00:43:20.920 | It was highly recommended in terms

00:43:22.560 | of if you wanted to book with your air miles

00:43:25.080 | and didn't want to have to--

00:43:26.240 | Point.me.

00:43:27.120 | I'll check it out.

00:43:27.880 | I've not looked at that one.

00:43:29.040 | Yeah, thank you.

00:43:30.760 | [INAUDIBLE]

00:43:33.380 | Hi, Gauri from New York City.

00:43:36.220 | Thanks for your work and sharing your insights.

00:43:38.940 | So it seems a lot of bogelheads are hardwired to be frugal,

00:43:43.140 | meaning they didn't have to learn it.

00:43:45.780 | They weren't taught it.

00:43:46.740 | It's a personal preference.

00:43:48.540 | And conversely, a lot of people seem

00:43:51.000 | to be indiscriminately spenders in a hardwired way.

00:43:55.180 | What have you seen to effectively help folks transfer

00:43:58.380 | from the latter to the former?

00:44:00.740 | So the earlier you can do it, like with my kids,

00:44:04.420 | I required all three of my kids to get a regular real job

00:44:10.340 | when they turned 15.

00:44:12.260 | And one of them worked retail.

00:44:14.460 | The other two worked restaurants.

00:44:16.860 | And my son was also a lifeguard in addition to that.

00:44:21.340 | And then I offered each of them what

00:44:25.220 | we call the mommy-daddy match on a Roth IRA

00:44:28.980 | because a kid doesn't have to pay rent,

00:44:30.820 | doesn't have to pay mortgage, doesn't

00:44:32.440 | have any of the normal expenses.

00:44:34.060 | They just blow the money.

00:44:35.860 | So when I told each of my kids--

00:44:38.180 | and I recommend this to anybody if you've

00:44:40.220 | got kids that are young or grandkids that are young--

00:44:44.780 | that you offer them an incentive to save money

00:44:48.660 | that they're earning.

00:44:50.340 | And whatever they save-- let's say they make $2,000 at a job.

00:44:55.740 | And so they're eligible to do $2,000 a Roth that year.

00:44:59.280 | So they give me $1,000.

00:45:01.060 | I match it with $1,000.

00:45:02.620 | They've got $2,000 in the Roth.

00:45:04.700 | And all three of my kids are totally into it.

00:45:07.540 | And I remember my oldest daughter

00:45:10.540 | was a freshman in college, and one of her--

00:45:13.540 | I don't know if it was personal finance or economics

00:45:15.820 | or whatever.

00:45:16.980 | And so the professor was asking-- the instructor

00:45:19.980 | was asking, so what should someone

00:45:23.020 | do to save for the future?

00:45:24.700 | And my daughter raised her hand and says, well,

00:45:26.980 | they should do a Roth IRA.

00:45:29.100 | And all the other students are looking at her like,

00:45:31.700 | you are one big loser.

00:45:33.740 | What are you talking about?

00:45:35.660 | But the point is, she was a winner, and she learned it,

00:45:38.540 | and it was in her head.

00:45:40.140 | It's got to start young.

00:45:42.260 | The younger you can start it, the better.

00:45:44.660 | What I did with my kids when they were single digit

00:45:49.100 | was I'd take them with me to the supermarket,

00:45:51.740 | and I'd show them the difference between a store

00:45:55.260 | brand and a brand name.

00:45:57.460 | And the kids, they don't care the consequence

00:46:01.020 | that the brand name is more money.

00:46:03.140 | And what I did with my kids was I said,

00:46:05.500 | whatever money we save as you try the store brand instead

00:46:09.340 | of the brand name, I'm going to give you half the savings.

00:46:13.420 | And so all three-- because always market, incentives,

00:46:17.540 | aligned.

00:46:19.620 | That is it in capitalism.

00:46:21.180 | And my kids, two of them are adults now.

00:46:24.620 | When they go shopping, they're always buying store brand.

00:46:28.940 | And my middle child loves Aldi, so I really love her

00:46:32.140 | more than the other two.

00:46:34.980 | And so it is something that has to be taught young.

00:46:38.180 | Now, somebody later in life, if they're a spender,

00:46:41.700 | it has to be School of Hard Knocks.

00:46:44.580 | They have to-- people don't change

00:46:47.740 | once they have habits in place until they're ready.

00:46:51.220 | But there's one thing I recommend

00:46:52.900 | to people who can't ever seem to save a dollar.

00:46:56.980 | I try to get them to save $0.01 of every dollar they make.

00:47:01.820 | And every six months, step it up another cent.

00:47:05.180 | And in five years, I'll have them at a dime of every dollar

00:47:08.600 | that they're saving, because people don't miss it one penny

00:47:11.060 | at a time.

00:47:12.300 | And it's all about building habits and routines.

00:47:17.220 | Great.

00:47:17.720 | Thank you.

00:47:18.260 | Sure.

00:47:20.300 | Hi, Clark.

00:47:20.820 | We've got back-to-back New York City here.

00:47:22.820 | I'm Jeremy Zucke.

00:47:23.780 | So for me--

00:47:24.820 | Which borough?

00:47:26.060 | Manhattan.

00:47:26.900 | Yeah, me, too.

00:47:27.700 | Oh, only for two years, though.

00:47:29.020 | I'm more of a Chicago before that.

00:47:30.420 | But a bit of a personal question in a way,

00:47:33.180 | but I think one of the-- what I saw growing up,

00:47:35.140 | like one of the reasons that my parents got divorced

00:47:37.820 | was that they had a lot of resources,

00:47:39.500 | but one of them was a big cheapskate,

00:47:41.820 | and like a proud cheapskate, and the other one was not,

00:47:44.340 | and thought, we've got a lot to spend.

00:47:46.180 | Why are we going and sitting by the toilet

00:47:49.140 | and coach on the airline when we don't have to?

00:47:52.100 | So I'm curious how you coach people

00:47:54.040 | who are in relationships to try to follow your principles,

00:47:57.380 | but also maintain a strong bond between them.

00:48:00.300 | So I'm not a good marriage therapist,

00:48:03.900 | but I will tell you that it really

00:48:07.020 | is about communication and respect for each other,

00:48:11.580 | and you have to find the compromises.

00:48:14.140 | So you have to find the things that work with a couple.

00:48:18.860 | Where is it that you can reach an accommodation?

00:48:24.260 | And so on this, we're going to spend less,

00:48:27.140 | but on this, we'll do it your way.

00:48:29.020 | It has to be an ongoing conversation.

00:48:32.260 | There's not ever one conversation about money.

00:48:35.780 | It has to be a continuing thing, and I

00:48:37.460 | don't know a couple alive that there's not

00:48:41.580 | some level of separation in how they feel about money.

00:48:46.300 | So it's got to be communication in that couple,

00:48:50.580 | and it can't be anybody imposing will on the other,

00:48:53.460 | because you're going to build up so much distance and resentment

00:48:56.500 | in that relationship if somebody is trying to impose

00:48:59.460 | their beliefs on the other person.

00:49:02.900 | Usually the stronger personality will impose,

00:49:06.620 | but then the person who's not as strong will resent,

00:49:10.460 | and it builds distance and that separation.

00:49:14.220 | Thank you.

00:49:14.860 | Sure.

00:49:16.020 | Anybody who's a marriage therapist who

00:49:17.780 | wants to take a stab at that?

00:49:19.020 | OK, hi.

00:49:22.700 | I'd like to continue the Phillies' braids,

00:49:24.700 | but I guess one of us cannot.

00:49:27.220 | But anyway, OK, don't let me--

00:49:31.740 | sorry, a true Philly fan.

00:49:34.100 | But OK, I'm super--

00:49:35.220 | Yeah, but we're from the home of the losers.

00:49:37.420 | Atlanta is loserville.

00:49:38.660 | We always lose.

00:49:39.620 | That's because Atlanta is so fun and so interesting that we

00:49:43.300 | always have things to do other than pay attention

00:49:45.580 | to whatever we're supposed to be doing.

00:49:48.060 | All right, so let me--

00:49:49.500 | you triggered another--

00:49:50.940 | Cobra was the first, but the second, as soon

00:49:52.780 | as you said private brands, there's

00:49:55.460 | something that's really bugging me in grocery--

00:49:59.660 | in the supermarkets, food selection.

00:50:01.900 | That is the private brand labels.

00:50:03.700 | Buy all these supermarket chains.

00:50:05.260 | In the Philadelphia area of ShopRite, you have Giant.

00:50:08.100 | They have been creeping in, and it's all about the shelf space,

00:50:12.780 | you know, how they organize, the profit--

00:50:15.980 | more profit, the promotional brands they put first,

00:50:18.540 | and do a lot of placement.

00:50:21.140 | They, over the past maybe year, these couple of chains,

00:50:25.100 | even the higher end chains, they start putting private labels.

00:50:28.580 | And they said they're cheaper.

00:50:30.220 | And I think-- I really think they're intentionally boosting

00:50:34.180 | prices on the name brands, and they want to introduce

00:50:36.980 | their private labels.

00:50:37.820 | But what I've noticed is the difference

00:50:39.900 | between frugal and cheap.

00:50:42.380 | I look-- when you look at the product quality, turn--

00:50:47.220 | no, look at the price, but look at the ingredients,

00:50:50.700 | like all the spaghetti sauce.

00:50:52.020 | They all have high fructose sugar, lower quality corn

00:50:56.060 | syrup, cheaper substitutes, lower quality

00:51:00.020 | of the product itself.

00:51:01.380 | So it just bothers me that they're

00:51:04.140 | encroaching on the premium market space, the shelf space,

00:51:08.460 | to put their best.

00:51:09.380 | And they are taking-- they're removing the private--

00:51:11.860 | the commercial brands, the brand name stuff.

00:51:13.700 | So I am actively avoiding private label brands simply

00:51:17.940 | because of quality.

00:51:19.060 | And I can taste the difference.

00:51:21.180 | I just notice it.

00:51:22.020 | Like, I will pay.

00:51:23.520 | Like, the spaghetti sauce is the higher-- the real stuff,

00:51:26.420 | it doesn't have sugar in it.

00:51:27.780 | It is much better.

00:51:29.300 | So like, say, the point of being a boga is you're frugal,

00:51:33.380 | but you need to spend on stuff you want, not stuff you need.

00:51:38.780 | So if you want-- so I want better quality food.

00:51:41.420 | So I will buy--

00:51:42.980 | I'm avoiding private label brands

00:51:44.620 | so I can buy the name brand to get what I like.

00:51:48.500 | So I would say in rebuttal that it is up to the retailer

00:51:54.900 | to have private label of a quality that people buy it,

00:51:59.780 | they're happy with it, and they buy it again.

00:52:02.740 | When you buy a private label that you're happy with,

00:52:06.660 | you win, and the retailer wins.

00:52:08.900 | The supermarket wins.

00:52:10.260 | Because they're making a higher margin on that,

00:52:13.220 | and you're buying at a lower price.

00:52:16.020 | And so it's not to their incentive

00:52:20.060 | to sell you garbage ingredients in a private label.

00:52:23.740 | Now, you're looking at the labels, you're seeing garbage.

00:52:26.540 | But that is not what the industry is really

00:52:31.100 | trying to do, generally.

00:52:33.540 | It's just-- but I just see them--

00:52:35.780 | each store has their own brand encroaching on that.

00:52:39.300 | And you're right, but--

00:52:40.260 | It depends on the store and how they do it.

00:52:43.860 | Yeah, of course, it's a balance.

00:52:45.540 | But I'm just pointing that out, because this

00:52:47.820 | is what I'm seeing.

00:52:48.660 | It's a consumer area that I just don't like to see that.

00:52:52.500 | So do you shop at Whole Paycheck?

00:52:54.940 | No, it's not in our area.

00:52:57.140 | So people who shop at Whole Paycheck,

00:52:59.420 | the 365 brand is really good.

00:53:03.500 | The ingredients are solid, and it

00:53:05.500 | takes something that's four times

00:53:07.620 | the cost it would be somewhere else to only 2 and 1/2 times

00:53:10.860 | the cost of what it would be at another store.

00:53:13.220 | And so the marketplace provides the competition.

00:53:17.700 | And in supermarkets, I would say it's not

00:53:19.660 | that you buy the store brand versus the--

00:53:23.100 | the brand name versus store brand where you're shopping.

00:53:25.420 | It means you're shopping at the wrong supermarket.

00:53:28.700 | If I can find what I want, I'll go to a different store.

00:53:31.020 | But I just want to bring up that point, that it's bothering me.

00:53:34.620 | And I understand it's a trade difference.

00:53:37.380 | But if I can see the quality, and I can taste the quality,

00:53:40.340 | I'll go for that better product.

00:53:42.540 | OK.

00:53:43.040 | Back to travel.

00:53:48.020 | My name is Paul Brown.

00:53:49.140 | I'm from Northern California.

00:53:51.620 | My wife and I have a bucket list trip coming up

00:53:55.140 | because I have a four-week sabbatical.

00:53:57.060 | Pretty excited about it.

00:53:59.060 | And my question is, is there any value

00:54:02.340 | to using a travel agent?

00:54:04.820 | And again, the travel agent don't typically charge.

00:54:08.540 | They do.

00:54:09.040 | They charge an hourly rate now.

00:54:10.780 | If you use a sophisticated travel agent,

00:54:14.380 | you're going to be paying him or her

00:54:16.380 | like you'd pay someone for financial advice who's

00:54:19.620 | in this room, or you pay a lawyer or an accountant.

00:54:22.660 | You're going to pay them for their expertise

00:54:25.540 | and a rate per hour for being knowledgeable

00:54:28.620 | about the destination and making your trip really great.

00:54:32.460 | Where is it you're planning on to go on this bucket list trip?

00:54:35.460 | I'll see you in Australia in January.

00:54:37.420 | All right.

00:54:39.100 | So--

00:54:39.740 | And I've never been.

00:54:40.540 | So--

00:54:41.260 | What do you hope the agent will do for you?

00:54:43.820 | Put a package together that gives us

00:54:47.060 | the experience that we want.

00:54:48.300 | So part-- we're going to do Australia, New Zealand, so--

00:54:51.060 | Yeah, so you and--

00:54:52.900 | And I've never been, so--

00:54:54.340 | And you live in the Bay Area?

00:54:56.580 | Yeah.

00:54:57.140 | So Bay Area, you'll have no trouble

00:54:59.180 | finding someone who's got high certification as a leisure

00:55:04.700 | agent, what used to be called a CTC, Certified Travel

00:55:08.860 | Consultant.

00:55:09.900 | They use a different term for it now,

00:55:11.940 | but it's a professional designation.

00:55:13.900 | You'll be able to find someone and ask them,

00:55:15.860 | how many times have you been to Australia?

00:55:17.620 | How many people have you sent to Australia?

00:55:20.220 | And a good, experienced, knowledgeable agent

00:55:24.420 | will ask you a lot of questions about you--

00:55:27.260 | what you enjoy doing, what kind of meals you eat out,

00:55:31.500 | how important this, that, or the other is.

00:55:34.180 | They'll interview you first to make

00:55:36.660 | sure they're putting together the right kind of trip

00:55:39.820 | for you.

00:55:40.740 | Great.

00:55:41.220 | Thank you.

00:55:41.820 | Now, on the other hand, with my family going,

00:55:45.820 | we have nothing planned.

00:55:48.100 | It's going to land, and we just wing it.

00:55:50.780 | So it's a different style of travel.

00:55:54.460 | Have a great time, by the way.

00:55:56.980 | Hi, Clark.

00:55:57.540 | Thank you for being here tonight.

00:55:58.780 | My name is Brian.

00:55:59.500 | I'm from Vienna, Virginia, right across the Potomac River.

00:56:02.540 | Since we're very close to DC, I'm

00:56:04.060 | going to ask you this open question.

00:56:06.420 | If you were a congressional staffer

00:56:08.380 | and could champion the consumer policies of your choice,

00:56:12.140 | what would you choose and why?

00:56:13.620 | Thank you.

00:56:14.340 | What would-- you mean, what would I fix?

00:56:16.340 | Yes.

00:56:16.820 | In terms of consumers?

00:56:17.700 | Exactly.

00:56:18.200 | I think, well, right now, there's

00:56:24.060 | federal law that gives the airlines pretty much leeway

00:56:28.780 | to do whatever they want.

00:56:30.660 | And I've been on a slow burn about we, as taxpayers,

00:56:34.820 | bailing out the airlines after September 11, '01.

00:56:39.100 | Then we bailed them out again during COVID,

00:56:41.460 | gave them billions of dollars with no responsibility

00:56:45.100 | to pay it back.

00:56:46.460 | And then they treat consumers so badly.

00:56:50.020 | I want us to have a law, like they have in Europe,

00:56:53.780 | that if they disrupt your plans, they have to pay you.

00:56:57.420 | If you don't make a connection and you're

00:56:59.500 | going to have to spend the night,

00:57:01.100 | they're required to pay for your hotel.

00:57:03.420 | If you're delayed so much time, they

00:57:05.700 | have to pay you compensation.

00:57:07.820 | And it has made the airlines in Europe much more honest.

00:57:13.660 | And they run more efficient operations

00:57:15.840 | than we do in the United States.

00:57:17.740 | So that's the-- because I travel so much,

00:57:20.120 | you ask me self-interest.

00:57:21.700 | If I were on transportation committee in the House,

00:57:26.220 | that is what I would do.

00:57:27.900 | I'd have consumer protections with teeth

00:57:31.100 | for people who travel.

00:57:33.380 | [APPLAUSE]

00:57:38.220 | Thank you.

00:57:38.700 | We just need to convince Airlines of America of that.

00:57:41.980 | What's that?

00:57:42.540 | We just need to convince Airlines of America,

00:57:44.380 | the airline lobbyist group, of that.

00:57:46.300 | They are intensely powerful.

00:57:47.700 | They are very good at what they do.

00:57:49.160 | Hi, Clark.

00:57:52.820 | I'm Frank from Maryland.

00:57:53.900 | And I just wanted you to comment on electronic vehicles.

00:57:57.340 | I believe there's a big push, obviously, with the makers

00:57:59.900 | right now, rolling out the EVs.

00:58:02.300 | And will hybrids still be around for a while?

00:58:05.460 | Hybrids are going to be around in the world.

00:58:08.540 | And there will be quite a few sold in the United States.

00:58:11.420 | Because a lot of the US is so extremely rural

00:58:15.580 | that an electric-only vehicle is not necessarily

00:58:19.000 | going to be practical till we get

00:58:20.580 | to a range of maybe 700, 800 miles on electric vehicles.

00:58:24.780 | We're not close to that yet.

00:58:26.980 | And Toyota believes-- and they've

00:58:29.340 | been just hammered for this by environmentalists.

00:58:32.380 | But I think Toyota is right.

00:58:33.780 | There's going to be a big market in the world.

00:58:36.460 | Because automobiles are a worldwide market.

00:58:38.740 | It's not just us.

00:58:39.620 | It's not just any particular country.

00:58:43.060 | They sell worldwide.

00:58:44.780 | And there are going to be a lot of places in the world

00:58:47.100 | that there's not reliable electricity

00:58:48.980 | supplies and the rest.

00:58:50.540 | And so I think there's going to be a continuing role

00:58:52.660 | for hybrids for at least a generation moving forward.

00:58:56.860 | Now, I've driven an electric vehicle since 2011.

00:59:00.700 | I first drove a Nissan LEAF.

00:59:03.420 | Did anybody else do that?

00:59:06.980 | What was the range on yours?

00:59:08.280 | Mine dropped to 35 miles total range after a while.

00:59:11.660 | [LAUGHTER]

00:59:13.860 | You're really getting 80 miles?

00:59:16.340 | How about you?

00:59:16.900 | How many--

00:59:17.380 | [INAUDIBLE]

00:59:21.820 | Wow.

00:59:23.180 | So I now drive a Tesla that goes 344 miles on a charge.

00:59:29.420 | So electric vehicles are so much fun to drive.

00:59:33.540 | Forget the environmental thing.

00:59:34.900 | I mean, if you want to be environmental, it's fine.

00:59:37.020 | But they are so much more fun to drive than gas engine

00:59:40.820 | vehicles.

00:59:41.860 | It's nuts how much fun they are to drive.

00:59:45.060 | It's like a whole different thing.

00:59:48.580 | Especially if you get the Plaid Plus, huh?

00:59:51.060 | So I'm not getting a Plaid, because I have a teenage son.

00:59:56.180 | There will be no Plaid in our household.

00:59:59.340 | If you don't know the Plaid, it's the world's fastest

01:00:02.300 | production vehicle at 1.9 seconds, 0 to 60.

01:00:06.860 | There is one $5 million car called the Rimac or something?

01:00:11.740 | Rimac that's faster?

01:00:13.580 | Oh, how many of those do you have?

01:00:15.100 | [LAUGHTER]

01:00:17.940 | Just-- OK.

01:00:19.700 | Jim Dolley, Sandy, Utah.

01:00:22.060 | A lot of us are pretty frugal.

01:00:23.980 | Many of us are wealthy at this point,

01:00:27.300 | partly because we've been frugal our whole lives.

01:00:30.420 | At what point does it make sense to not

01:00:33.300 | spend the time and hassle shopping for the deal?

01:00:38.500 | Because we don't need the money.

01:00:42.100 | So something--

01:00:42.860 | [APPLAUSE]

01:00:46.900 | Something we didn't talk about is

01:00:48.660 | I retired the first time I was 31

01:00:51.020 | and never intended to work again.

01:00:53.420 | And I've always been just, at this point,

01:00:57.340 | wired so solidly that way that I just

01:01:02.940 | can't seem to let go of that.

01:01:05.100 | But I did make a deal with my wife

01:01:08.260 | that I am about to blow all my credibility,

01:01:11.380 | so if you're ready.

01:01:13.580 | So I fly every week, pretty much for work, every week.

01:01:19.380 | And I fly Southwest, so I get the companion pass.

01:01:23.780 | I've had the companion pass since 2006.

01:01:27.340 | And my wife flies with me free everywhere we go.

01:01:31.100 | Whenever she goes with me, her fare, it's not really free.

01:01:34.020 | We have to pay $11.20 round trip.

01:01:37.100 | But she's free.

01:01:38.700 | And she hates Southwest.

01:01:41.060 | So we reached a deal that up to six times a year,

01:01:46.620 | if we go international, she says, lie flat, baby,

01:01:52.260 | and we fly business class.

01:01:55.660 | Because remember that marriage thing earlier?

01:02:00.660 | Life involves compromise and negotiation.

01:02:05.500 | And basically, whatever she says, that's right.

01:02:08.940 | But this was her deal.

01:02:11.460 | And you know what I've discovered?

01:02:13.260 | I really like flying in one of those lie flat beds

01:02:17.100 | in the front of the plane.

01:02:19.540 | I think he's getting the last question.

01:02:21.620 | You get the last question.

01:02:22.980 | Oh, thank you.

01:02:24.460 | My name is Ramesh.

01:02:25.420 | I'm from Austin, Texas.

01:02:27.660 | No offense to Dr. Dow--

01:02:29.060 | What's your favorite Amy's ice cream flavor?

01:02:31.940 | Oh, Amy's.

01:02:33.260 | See, everything for me is about food and ice cream.

01:02:37.180 | And if you ever go to Austin, you've got to have Amy's ice

01:02:39.500 | cream.

01:02:40.380 | I like the Mexican vanilla.

01:02:41.940 | Have you ever tried that?

01:02:43.340 | Yes, yes.

01:02:45.340 | But obviously, that's not your favorite flavor.

01:02:49.660 | So what is your favorite Amy's ice cream flavor?

01:02:53.780 | Oh, the one in the Great Hills, that Amy's ice cream,

01:02:57.540 | that's the one I like.

01:02:58.500 | OK.

01:02:59.580 | My question is about the doctors.

01:03:01.620 | I mean, they're in Austin area these days.

01:03:03.700 | There's a lot of advertisements about concierge services.

01:03:07.060 | They offer $400 a year.

01:03:11.020 | I'm fairly healthy, so I don't have

01:03:12.820 | to worry about major expenses.

01:03:15.100 | But what's your opinion about these concierge services?

01:03:19.260 | They offer 24-hour services.

01:03:20.460 | So I don't know where you're finding concierge doctors

01:03:22.740 | for $400.

01:03:24.420 | I mean, usually, they're about $2,000.

01:03:28.300 | And it's something that I think is really

01:03:31.900 | advisable for somebody who has a chronic medical condition

01:03:37.780 | or is at an age where more things may go wrong.

01:03:41.940 | Because with a good concierge doctor,

01:03:46.140 | you get same-day or next-day appointment.

01:03:49.620 | And you get visits that are typically

01:03:52.060 | booked at-- they block an hour for your time with the doctor.

01:03:56.780 | I mean, normally, when you're with the doctor,

01:03:58.820 | you're on a conveyor belt. And they

01:04:01.660 | walk in, you're already sliding down the conveyor

01:04:04.180 | to go out the door.

01:04:06.020 | And with a concierge doctor, it's

01:04:08.100 | a completely different kind of experience.

01:04:10.940 | So if you're really healthy, there's

01:04:13.900 | no reason to spend that money.

01:04:16.060 | But at a certain age or with a certain condition,

01:04:20.140 | I think it's really a great idea if you can afford

01:04:24.460 | to pay for the concierge doctor.

01:04:27.020 | And doctors are being crushed, particularly primary care

01:04:31.140 | doctors are being crushed by the insurance industry.

01:04:35.100 | And they are not in a position anymore

01:04:39.060 | to provide the care and the time to a patient that they--

01:04:43.220 | bless you-- that they historically did.

01:04:46.500 | Bless you again.

01:04:48.180 | And so for doctors, they're between a rock and a hard

01:04:53.740 | place.

01:04:54.220 | If you're worried about why medicine is going up

01:04:56.580 | so much in cost, it is not the doctors,

01:04:59.220 | and it's not even the prescription drugs.

01:05:01.020 | It's all hospitals.

01:05:03.100 | It's all hospital bills.

01:05:05.020 | And so the doctors are used to making

01:05:08.820 | whatever they've been making in their career.

01:05:11.420 | And they hate having to reduce the quality of service

01:05:16.140 | to their patients.

01:05:17.340 | And that's why the concierge movement's been so big.

01:05:21.100 | And I think for the right person,

01:05:23.540 | it's a great thing to do.

01:05:25.700 | But if you're really, really healthy, wouldn't do it.

01:05:32.100 | Now, he was supposed to have the last question.

01:05:34.060 | So ask one really fast.

01:05:36.020 | Well, it's a quick story, if I may,

01:05:38.180 | since you mentioned the importance of compromise

01:05:41.060 | in marriage.

01:05:41.620 | Two weeks before our wedding, my wife and I

01:05:44.220 | were walking in Riverside Park.

01:05:45.540 | We saw this elderly couple before us.

01:05:47.660 | We approached them and said, we're about to get married.

01:05:49.900 | You seem like you've been together a while.

01:05:51.660 | Do you have any guidance to share with the young couple

01:05:54.160 | about to get married?

01:05:55.260 | She embraced the question.

01:05:57.700 | She spoke for two minutes, saying,

01:05:59.260 | marriage is about compromise, accommodating.

01:06:01.180 | You must listen to one another.

01:06:03.420 | Two minutes.

01:06:04.220 | I said, thank you.

01:06:05.060 | Sound advice.

01:06:05.980 | I turned to him.

01:06:07.180 | What would you like to add, sir?

01:06:08.580 | He said these five words.

01:06:10.620 | Always do what she wants.

01:06:12.580 | My wife loves that second one.

01:06:19.940 | Thank you very much.

01:06:21.180 | [APPLAUSE]

01:06:24.900 | [APPLAUSE]

01:06:28.260 | [BLANK_AUDIO]

Bogleheads® Conference 2023 - Clark Howard: Honing Your Consumer Skills

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