Joe Rogan: Comedy, Controversy, Aliens, UFOs, Putin, CIA, and Freedom

00:00:00.000 | The following is a conversation with Joe Rogan, his second time on this podcast.

00:00:05.120 | He has inspired me for many years with his conversations to be a better and kinder person and has now been doing so as a

00:00:13.320 | friend.

00:00:15.320 | There's no one I would rather talk to on this

00:00:18.080 | 300th episode of this podcast on the 4th of July,

00:00:22.480 | both the anniversary of this country's Declaration of Independence and

00:00:27.520 | the anniversary of my immigrating here to the United States.

00:00:31.260 | A silly kid who couldn't speak English and could never imagine that he would be

00:00:36.560 | so damn lucky as to live the life I've lived,

00:00:39.920 | to feel the love I've felt

00:00:42.680 | from the amazing people along the way.

00:00:45.280 | From the bottom of my heart, thank you. I love you all.

00:00:50.400 | This is the Lex Friedman Podcast. To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description.

00:00:57.560 | And now, dear friends, here's Joe

00:01:00.200 | Rogan.

00:01:02.360 | Charles Bukowski said something in a poem called "Style" about art.

00:01:06.560 | He defined art saying, "Style is the answer to everything, a fresh way to approach a dull or dangerous thing.

00:01:13.800 | To do a dull thing with style is preferable to doing a dangerous thing without it.

00:01:18.520 | To do a dangerous thing with style is what I call art."

00:01:22.440 | What do you think he meant by that? Do you agree with us?

00:01:26.360 | Dangerous thing with style is art.

00:01:28.720 | He said bullfighting can be art, boxing can be art, loving can be art.

00:01:32.800 | Have you ever made love and it was art? No, OK, I'm not asking.

00:01:36.240 | Every time, bro.

00:01:39.360 | Opening a can of sardines can be art.

00:01:41.480 | I think there's something to that.

00:01:44.160 | Yeah, I think I call the way people live life art.

00:01:48.400 | Like I wrote a foreword to my friend Cameron Haynes's book,

00:01:51.760 | which is right now the number one selling audio book in the world.

00:01:56.360 | And one of the things that I said was that he practices an art that very few people appreciate.

00:02:02.400 | And it's the art of the maximized life.

00:02:04.800 | And that the discipline that he displays in his life

00:02:10.840 | and through his practices and all the things that he does,

00:02:13.920 | it's so difficult to live the way he lives.

00:02:18.920 | That for someone like me who understands it and knows what he's doing and appreciates it

00:02:24.880 | and appreciates how insanely difficult it is to have a full time job

00:02:30.800 | and run ultra marathons, get up at four o'clock in the morning, run a full marathon before work.

00:02:35.920 | Like that's the kind of shit that he he does when he when he's training for these

00:02:40.520 | 240 mile runs, all the at the same time being like a father,

00:02:47.880 | a husband having this full time job,

00:02:52.840 | also being the best bow hunter on earth, lifting weights.

00:02:55.760 | It's like, how does a person do this?

00:02:58.440 | So in a way, discipline is art too.

00:03:00.480 | Yes, discipline is art.

00:03:02.080 | Yeah, I think it is because it's beautiful for me to see.

00:03:04.880 | When I see someone who's really, truly disciplined,

00:03:07.640 | who like a David Goggin, someone who just like truly maximizes the grind.

00:03:12.520 | I feel like there's an art to that.

00:03:14.200 | And there's an art to kindness.

00:03:16.440 | Like there's people that are really kind and really sweet.

00:03:19.160 | And when I'm around them, it's beautiful.

00:03:20.560 | It's like there's an art to them.

00:03:21.880 | No matter what.

00:03:22.680 | Yeah.

00:03:23.240 | They still they got, you know, the world can throw a bunch of shit at you.

00:03:26.480 | But through all that.

00:03:28.200 | Some people are just great at it.

00:03:29.520 | Yeah.

00:03:29.840 | And it's a it's a thing that you learn how to do.

00:03:32.880 | And it's pleasing for other people to see.

00:03:35.680 | And that, I think, is where the art is.

00:03:38.120 | Well, I think Bukowski also said,

00:03:40.240 | and I'm just a Bukowski quote generator today.

00:03:44.360 | I love him.

00:03:45.240 | I love him very much, too.

00:03:46.480 | He's a dark and troubled and fascinating and a weird person.

00:03:50.400 | Like Hunter S. Thompson.

00:03:51.520 | Yeah.

00:03:51.760 | He said, "What matters most is how you walk through the fire."

00:03:55.280 | I think.

00:03:56.160 | So there's a bit of the Ken Haynes in that, too.

00:03:58.800 | David Goggins in that, too.

00:04:00.320 | What do you think he meant by that?

00:04:02.240 | Well, how you walk through the fire.

00:04:05.440 | I mean, you can walk through the fire complaining along the way, or you can walk

00:04:09.200 | through the fire and create an example for everyone else so that the trials and

00:04:17.120 | tribulations of their own lives seem trivial because they're comparing themselves

00:04:21.240 | to the way you handle things.

00:04:22.520 | Or the way you handle things with grace and dignity and discipline can show other

00:04:28.440 | people that they can handle their own life this way.

00:04:32.240 | And there's beauty in that.

00:04:34.480 | There really is.

00:04:35.120 | And there's so much inspiration to be gathered from other people if you're a

00:04:40.480 | charitable person, if you're charitable and compassionate and you can look at

00:04:46.000 | people, even people that I don't like.

00:04:49.960 | I try to look at the best aspects of how they live their life and recognize those

00:04:56.760 | aspects, admire them, give them credit for it.

00:04:59.680 | There's something that we can all get out of watching the way other people live

00:05:04.720 | their lives.

00:05:05.320 | So I got a chance to see you walk through the fire a little bit privately and

00:05:09.960 | publicly this year in January.

00:05:13.640 | I got to ask you about that.

00:05:15.680 | So there's generic conversations about cancel culture and all those kinds of

00:05:20.320 | things.

00:05:20.600 | But as a human being, this to me is fascinating.

00:05:23.560 | There's the N-word highlight video.

00:05:27.040 | There's the criticism of the different guests, whatever the side is, on the COVID

00:05:31.880 | pandemic.

00:05:33.040 | And you, I mean, there's a mass amount of attack on you.

00:05:41.120 | Outside of being a public persona, outside of being a comedian, podcaster,

00:05:45.920 | you're also a human being.

00:05:47.560 | So how did you survive that?

00:05:50.120 | How did you sort of walk through that fire?

00:05:54.200 | Because you seem to do it with grace.

00:05:55.960 | I used mushrooms.

00:05:59.280 | That was one way I did it.

00:06:02.520 | Yeah.

00:06:02.840 | Really.

00:06:03.760 | What's your, as Andrew Huberman would say, what was your protocol?

00:06:07.440 | I took, it was probably less than a gram every day.

00:06:11.880 | Every day.

00:06:12.400 | Yeah.

00:06:13.080 | And I did a lot of really hard working out.

00:06:19.680 | But also, I mean, there's a great benefit to going through anything difficult.

00:06:28.400 | And if you're aware, in advance and during, anything that's going to happen that's

00:06:36.000 | very difficult and troubling, the great benefit is it gives you an opportunity to

00:06:42.200 | grow, gives you an opportunity to express yourself under pressure, to show your

00:06:47.960 | character, to show who you truly are.

00:06:49.640 | And it gives you an opportunity to see how you handle a very difficult situation.

00:06:55.760 | It also was fascinating as a person that's involved in media, right?

00:07:03.880 | Because what we're doing right now is media, even though it seems like podcasts

00:07:09.960 | seem like we're just having a conversation, right?

00:07:12.240 | And they are.

00:07:13.200 | And in that sense, it's kind of the purest form of media because what you're doing

00:07:19.440 | is you're doing it without any fanfare.

00:07:25.040 | You're doing it without any, there's no executives looming over your head or

00:07:30.200 | network or big meetings about ratings or any of that stuff.

00:07:33.600 | But it is media.

00:07:34.680 | But what I got to see is the wiring under the machine of how the rest of media would

00:07:41.080 | try to take me out.

00:07:42.680 | And, you know, like when CNN would be just be playing things over and over and back

00:07:47.600 | and forth, it was wild to watch.

00:07:50.080 | What was also wild to watch was people's responses.

00:07:53.440 | Because I gained 2 million subscribers during that time.

00:08:00.200 | Like the podcast never got bigger.

00:08:02.520 | It just kept growing and growing.

00:08:04.200 | It had never been bigger than it had been like at the end of all of it.

00:08:08.280 | It just made it bigger.

00:08:09.920 | And, you know, ultimately, when, if you've fucked up in the past or made mistakes or

00:08:17.000 | done something wrong, that gives you an opportunity to discuss those things and to

00:08:22.600 | say, to apologize if you feel the need to apologize and also to just address it.

00:08:29.160 | And so people under that kind of pressure, they get it.

00:08:32.600 | It's an opportunity for them to understand how you think about things honestly, how

00:08:36.840 | you actually honestly think about things.

00:08:39.040 | And there's no more honesty that you get out of a person than when that person is

00:08:42.920 | under extreme duress.

00:08:44.240 | You know, so I think in that sense, I mean, it's horrible to say that it's a benefit,

00:08:49.400 | that it's a good thing that it happened, but it was a benefit.

00:08:52.360 | Can you see how it can break a person?

00:08:54.400 | Yes.

00:08:55.120 | I've gotten the chance to experience small, small attacks here and there.

00:08:59.600 | Ones that get to the core of things, like even just talking to, about Russia and

00:09:05.440 | Ukraine, to Stephen Calkin or Oliver Stone, looking at different perspectives, you

00:09:10.840 | gain a relative, for me, feeling like a sizable number of people who really don't

00:09:16.800 | like you and say things about you that may be cut deep for a reason I don't

00:09:25.360 | understand why.

00:09:26.200 | It's just my own psychology.

00:09:28.240 | Well, it's also because you can't defend yourself because they're saying it and

00:09:32.080 | you're not there and you don't have any opportunity for a rebuttal.

00:09:37.400 | And if you do have a rebuttal, you're doing it publicly and you're opening it up to

00:09:41.240 | the whole world to chime in.

00:09:43.120 | And there's a general tendency that people have towards negativity when they're

00:09:48.560 | interacting with strangers online, especially about controversial subjects.

00:09:52.920 | And even if it's only 10% of the people, it's one out of 10.

00:09:56.480 | That's a lot.

00:09:57.520 | That's a lot of negativity when you're dealing with thousands and thousands of

00:10:01.120 | tweets.

00:10:01.720 | Yeah.

00:10:02.240 | And I think, maybe I'm just a very self-critical person, but I hear their

00:10:07.240 | words and I probably somewhere deep inside see the truth in the criticism.

00:10:12.520 | In some aspect of the criticism.

00:10:14.280 | And that's why it hurts.

00:10:15.280 | Well, it's, but it's in one aspect of you, you know, but when you're reading it, it's

00:10:23.560 | so it's boiled down to this one thing as if that one thing defines you totally.

00:10:31.080 | Like if you've made a mistake, if you've said something that you shouldn't have

00:10:35.280 | said, or if you said something and, you know, maybe you should have considered it

00:10:40.640 | more carefully, giving the gravity of the situation, you know, that that's just a

00:10:45.720 | part of being a person.

00:10:47.080 | And it's also part of being a person where you're communicating with things

00:10:50.840 | publicly in real time, thinking out loud, which is what we do.

00:10:55.040 | You know, it's complex and most people don't do it.

00:10:58.280 | And you're going to have these, you're going to have genuine hot takes where

00:11:04.040 | people just see what you said and go, why did he say that?

00:11:08.400 | Fuck him.

00:11:09.360 | You know, he doesn't know anything about, he doesn't live in Ukraine.

00:11:12.560 | He doesn't, you know, it was like, there's, there's people that are going to

00:11:14.880 | have takes on that, in that way.

00:11:16.960 | And then there's also going to be these disingenuous people who just use any kind

00:11:22.280 | of controversial topic or subject as an opportunity for them to get clicks or

00:11:26.040 | views.

00:11:26.520 | But that the number of those people can be quite large.

00:11:29.600 | Quite large.

00:11:30.440 | And so going back to, do you think it can destroy a person?

00:11:35.000 | Cause I kind of worry about this and you're in many ways, but in this way, an

00:11:38.800 | inspiration that it didn't seem to have destroyed you, but it's.

00:11:43.080 | I kept doing shows.

00:11:44.160 | I kept doing standup.

00:11:45.720 | I ignored everything.

00:11:47.640 | I didn't read any of it.

00:11:48.840 | So it is possible to just ignore.

00:11:50.760 | A hundred percent.

00:11:51.720 | Yes.

00:11:52.480 | Yeah.

00:11:53.600 | I ignored it all.

00:11:55.040 | But you have like.

00:11:55.600 | I knew it was there.

00:11:56.640 | Like your family didn't bring it up.

00:11:58.200 | My family was very aware of it.

00:12:00.280 | My wife was aware of it.

00:12:01.240 | What was the conversation like if, if your wife is aware of it, is there like a rule?

00:12:05.720 | Don't bring it, pretend it's not happening.

00:12:07.480 | No.

00:12:07.880 | Just like.

00:12:08.320 | Well, I don't, I tell her don't ever read.

00:12:10.120 | Past the green beans.

00:12:11.160 | I don't ever let her like read negative articles to me.

00:12:15.720 | You know, I don't want them.

00:12:17.360 | I don't care.

00:12:18.600 | I go, that's a person's opinion.

00:12:20.000 | You take a person's opinion, you write it down.

00:12:22.120 | It doesn't give it any more relevance.

00:12:23.760 | Like that person, you know, could have had that opinion in silence.

00:12:27.240 | They could have had it with some friends at dinner.

00:12:29.520 | They don't like me, whatever.

00:12:30.560 | I don't want to read it.

00:12:31.400 | I don't want to absorb it.

00:12:32.160 | I don't even know them, especially if I'm not there.

00:12:34.560 | And especially if it's some biased and it's, it's not an objective opinion of me.

00:12:41.400 | It's this, you know, they have a narrative and they want to stick to that narrative and

00:12:46.320 | they want to write an article and they piece it all together, make you look like a piece

00:12:49.600 | of shit.

00:12:50.000 | And that's their prerogative.

00:12:51.640 | They're completely allowed to do that.

00:12:53.000 | But I know I shouldn't absorb that.

00:12:54.880 | I shouldn't take that in.

00:12:56.000 | You're not supposed to be taking in the opinion of the world.

00:13:00.160 | Yeah.

00:13:00.880 | You're supposed to be taking in the opinion of small groups of people that you

00:13:04.200 | encounter so that you get an understanding of how you make them feel.

00:13:09.360 | And then maybe you say to yourself, maybe I come across too rude, or maybe I come

00:13:15.520 | across too insensitive, or maybe, maybe I could do better in this way or that way.

00:13:21.360 | That's how we sort of shape our personalities and it's how we develop our social

00:13:25.680 | skills.

00:13:26.440 | But when the people don't know you and they have this like distorted narrative of

00:13:32.000 | you and, you know, there's fucking millions of people, there's so many people, you

00:13:37.080 | can't be sane.

00:13:37.680 | I think there's billions now actually.

00:13:39.160 | I mean, millions of people that are like communicating about something.

00:13:41.680 | Like during the height of the, you know, the attempt to cancel me or whatever that

00:13:46.440 | is.

00:13:46.600 | I don't know how many people were involved in that.

00:13:49.880 | People take this kind of stuff seriously, but the problem is the false narratives

00:13:54.480 | take hold and then you have meetings, you have groups, it builds on top of each

00:13:58.600 | other and there's this outrage and then it reaches you at some point and it can

00:14:03.880 | just have these destructive effects.

00:14:05.440 | It can, but it also sometimes doesn't.

00:14:10.000 | And in my case, it didn't.

00:14:11.240 | Didn't work.

00:14:12.560 | What lessons did you draw from that?

00:14:15.920 | Mushrooms, exercise?

00:14:17.920 | Mushrooms and exercise.

00:14:19.240 | Exercise is critical.

00:14:20.520 | I don't think the mushrooms by themselves would have worked, but that's the thing

00:14:23.800 | that I use for everything is the brutal exercise.

00:14:27.000 | Like my exercise routines are horrible.

00:14:29.560 | And because of that, everything else is easier.

00:14:32.680 | I create my own bullshit and my own bullshit is so much harder.

00:14:36.920 | And it's not just that, it's also sauna and cold plunge and these torture sessions.

00:14:43.280 | They, in enduring those, when you endure those, it makes enduring other things

00:14:49.120 | much easier and it's also an understanding of what's happening.

00:14:53.120 | Like you have to know like media, you have to understand like what the hot take, you

00:14:59.520 | know, YouTube, social media, podcast, ecosphere is doing.

00:15:05.480 | Like if they're talking about, you know, Lex Friedman said this and we have to

00:15:09.760 | comment on that and you know, Lex gets canceled in all capital letters on a

00:15:14.600 | YouTube clip and if you, you watch that, you're fucking crazy.

00:15:17.600 | What are you doing?

00:15:18.040 | Absorbing all this negativity.

00:15:19.800 | It's not good for you.

00:15:20.560 | You are you, you know you.

00:15:22.800 | And you know, generally, if you've made a mistake, you know, generally, if people

00:15:26.920 | are upset with you, you post this awesome video on your Instagram of a woman who

00:15:31.840 | was being interviewed in 19 late 1920s, maybe.

00:15:35.800 | Yes.

00:15:36.320 | Yeah.

00:15:36.640 | And she's close to a hundred years old.

00:15:40.240 | So she's lived through the civil war, through world war one.

00:15:44.040 | She was at the time living through the early days of the great depression.

00:15:48.480 | So I was just looking back, you know, what have we as a human civilization in

00:15:53.160 | recent times survived, especially in the United States, you're talking about the

00:15:57.120 | two world wars in the 20th century, the great depression, the Spanish flu, the

00:16:02.080 | pandemic at the beginning of the 20th century.

00:16:04.760 | Yeah.

00:16:05.360 | What do we do in the United States?

00:16:07.360 | So 9/11, if you think of what are the traumatic events that shook our world,

00:16:13.440 | it's 9/11, it made us rethink our place in the world.

00:16:17.560 | The pandemic.

00:16:20.600 | Pandemic is a huge one.

00:16:22.000 | One of the bigger ones, because it also accelerated and exacerbated our anxiety,

00:16:26.880 | which people have a certain level of anxiety already, especially sedentary

00:16:31.480 | people, they have a very high level of anxiety already because I don't think

00:16:35.960 | they're giving their body what it needs.

00:16:40.440 | I don't think they're, you know, your body has certain requirements in terms of

00:16:44.400 | movement and when you deny your body those requirements, I think there's like a

00:16:48.480 | general level of anxiety that exists in almost everyone.

00:16:52.000 | And then you have people obviously that have mental health issues and that also

00:16:56.960 | exacerbates the anxiety.

00:16:58.680 | The lockdown exacerbated the anxiety.

00:17:01.280 | Losing loved ones to the pandemic exacerbated anxiety.

00:17:05.600 | And then there was the division, the different schools of thought, the people

00:17:12.120 | that were never going to get vaccinated no matter what, I ain't trusting it.

00:17:16.080 | People that thought there was microchips in there, people that thought that, you

00:17:19.680 | know, Fauci's the demon.

00:17:21.000 | And there was a lot, and there's also like political leanings.

00:17:26.800 | The right-wing people tended to not want to be vaccinated, whereas the left-wing

00:17:31.640 | people, for whatever reason, all of a sudden are trusting pharmaceutical

00:17:35.480 | companies, like, explicitly.

00:17:38.280 | It was weird.

00:17:39.240 | It was a weird time.

00:17:41.440 | And I think over time, as it gets analyzed and we break it down, it's going to be

00:17:48.200 | one of the weirder moments for shaping human culture, and unfortunately for

00:17:52.560 | throwing gasoline on this already burning fire of, you know, of conflict between

00:18:04.400 | the various factions of thought in this country, it's already a weird time,

00:18:10.960 | you know, post-Trump.

00:18:12.200 | Like the Trump era is also going to be one of the weirder times.

00:18:17.800 | When people look back historically about the division in this country, he's such a

00:18:23.120 | polarizing figure that so many people felt like they could abandon their own ethics

00:18:31.200 | and morals and principles just to attack him and anybody who supports him because

00:18:39.040 | he is an existential threat to democracy itself.

00:18:43.280 | But don't you think it's not a cause, but maybe like a symptom?

00:18:46.720 | Like it's going to get, you said it got real weird.

00:18:48.840 | Maybe it's going to get weirder.

00:18:50.960 | Yeah, I think it's going to get weirder.

00:18:52.200 | He's going to run again.

00:18:53.560 | You think he wins?

00:18:54.720 | Well, he's running against a dead man.

00:18:56.680 | You know, I mean, Biden shakes hands with people that aren't even there when he

00:19:00.720 | gets off stage.

00:19:01.520 | Yeah.

00:19:01.800 | I think he's seeing ghosts.

00:19:03.120 | Yeah.

00:19:03.480 | You see him on Jimmy Kimmel the other day?

00:19:05.120 | No.

00:19:05.440 | Well, he was just rambling.

00:19:07.040 | I mean, if he was anyone else, if he was a Republican, if that was Donald Trump

00:19:13.520 | doing that, every fucking talk show would be screaming for him to be off the air.

00:19:19.480 | And by the way, I'm not a Trump supporter in any way, shape or form.

00:19:23.240 | I've had the opportunity to have him on my show more than once.

00:19:25.960 | I've said no, every time.

00:19:27.440 | I don't want to help him.

00:19:28.360 | I'm not interested in helping him.

00:19:29.880 | The night is still young.

00:19:31.520 | We'll see.

00:19:32.160 | If I have him on, the night is still young?

00:19:34.360 | Yeah.

00:19:34.560 | You think I'll have him on?

00:19:35.200 | I think you'll have him on.

00:19:36.160 | Really?

00:19:36.600 | Why do you think that?

00:19:37.440 | Because you'll have Putin on?

00:19:38.880 | And you're competitive as fuck.

00:19:43.480 | No.

00:19:43.800 | I think ultimately, I mean, you've had a lot of people that I think you may

00:19:55.080 | otherwise be skeptical.

00:19:56.240 | Would I have a good conversation?

00:19:57.560 | Which I think is your metric.

00:19:58.920 | You don't care about politics.

00:20:00.000 | So can I have a good conversation?

00:20:01.640 | And I think you had people like Kanye on, for example, and you had a

00:20:06.560 | great conversation with him.

00:20:07.600 | I think you, I think...

00:20:09.720 | But Kanye is an artist.

00:20:11.680 | Like, but Kanye doing well or not doing well doesn't change

00:20:15.520 | the course of our country.

00:20:16.880 | Yeah.

00:20:18.360 | But you don't, do you really bear the responsibility of the course of our

00:20:23.920 | country based on a conversation?

00:20:25.840 | I think you can revitalize and rehabilitate someone's image in a

00:20:33.680 | way that is pretty shocking.

00:20:36.400 | Look at the way people look at Alex Jones now, because Alex Jones has

00:20:39.960 | been on my podcast a few times.

00:20:41.360 | Yeah.

00:20:41.960 | How do they, which direction?

00:20:43.640 | The people that have watched those podcasts think he's hilarious.

00:20:47.080 | And they think that he definitely fucked up with that whole Sandy Hook thing.

00:20:52.480 | But he's right more than he's wrong.

00:20:56.040 | And he's not an evil guy.

00:20:58.880 | He's just a guy who's had some psychotic breaks in his life.

00:21:02.840 | He's had some genuine mental health issues that he's addressed.

00:21:05.880 | He's had some serious bouts of alcoholism, some serious bouts of, you know,

00:21:11.000 | substance abuse, and they've contributed to some very poor thinking.

00:21:15.000 | But if you know the guy, if you get to know him, like I have, I've known him

00:21:19.720 | for more than 20 years, and if you know him on podcasts, you realize like he is

00:21:24.720 | genuinely trying to unearth some things that are genuinely disturbing for most

00:21:31.600 | people.

00:21:32.120 | Like, this is a guy that was telling me about Epstein's Island fucking decade

00:21:39.000 | ago, at least he was telling me about, I was like, what?

00:21:42.200 | You're telling me there's a place where they bring elites to compromise them

00:21:48.800 | with underage girls and they film them?

00:21:50.760 | Really?

00:21:51.280 | Like, what?

00:21:51.760 | Cut the fuck out of here.

00:21:53.080 | No, President Clinton's been there.

00:21:54.920 | Everyone's been there.

00:21:55.800 | Like, what?

00:21:56.400 | It sounds like nonsense.

00:21:57.760 | And not only is it true, but people keep getting fucking murdered for it.

00:22:02.280 | Did you see that latest Clinton adviser that got murdered about it?

00:22:05.240 | Yeah.

00:22:05.800 | Yeah.

00:22:06.480 | Hung with an extension cord, shot himself in the chest 30 miles from his house,

00:22:11.680 | and they're calling it a suicide.

00:22:13.320 | And now even Elon Musk is asking, where's the clientele list?

00:22:17.000 | Yeah.

00:22:17.360 | We should probably see who's been to that island.

00:22:20.640 | Yeah, we should probably see who's been to that island.

00:22:22.600 | And there's probably more of those kind of things out there that haven't been

00:22:28.000 | exposed.

00:22:28.680 | Yeah, but sort of to push back, you had those conversations with Alex Jones.

00:22:35.800 | Wouldn't you be able to have the same kind of conversation with Donald Trump?

00:22:39.640 | That's the problem.

00:22:40.160 | No, it's not the problem.

00:22:42.040 | You revealed that Alex Jones is a human being.

00:22:44.600 | Yeah.

00:22:44.880 | He's fucked up.

00:22:45.920 | He has demons in his head.

00:22:47.280 | He's obviously chaotic all over the place, but there's some wisdom to the

00:22:53.120 | perspective he takes on the world.

00:22:54.520 | Even though he is often full of shit, he's able to predict certain things that

00:23:00.200 | very few people are willing to bring up.

00:23:02.320 | So isn't Trump the same way?

00:23:03.920 | Fucked up person, egomaniac, whatever personality things you can talk about.

00:23:09.880 | Isn't it worthwhile to lay it out?

00:23:12.440 | Like, if you listen to interviews of Trump, who has the balls to call him out

00:23:18.560 | on this bullshit?

00:23:19.280 | Chris Walls did.

00:23:20.160 | No, calling out somebody on their bullshit is easy when you're just being

00:23:24.240 | adversarial.

00:23:25.000 | But as a person who is genuinely empathetically trying to understand, I

00:23:30.840 | think you're really good at that.

00:23:31.840 | Like, you pulled him in.

00:23:32.920 | I don't know if he would genuinely be there.

00:23:35.360 | You know what I'm saying?

00:23:37.120 | Like, I think he would be putting on a performance.

00:23:39.840 | And that's probably...

00:23:40.440 | You don't think he can break through that in like 30 minutes?

00:23:42.800 | I'd need more time than that.

00:23:44.120 | And he doesn't do any drugs.

00:23:46.200 | That's the thing about Alex.

00:23:47.480 | You can get Alex high, get him drunk, and he'll start talking about

00:23:50.920 | interdimensional child molesters.

00:23:52.840 | Yeah.

00:23:53.360 | You know, and then you get the real Alex.

00:23:56.080 | Or maybe you have somebody else on as well to introduce chaos, like Alex.

00:24:00.920 | No, no, no, no.

00:24:02.520 | There'd have to be one or...

00:24:03.240 | I would have to be just me and him.

00:24:05.040 | I would have to...

00:24:05.800 | That would be a focused thing.

00:24:07.120 | I would have to like really take time with Trump.

00:24:10.880 | But also I'm not well-versed enough politically to know all of the corruption

00:24:19.080 | that's been alleged and to understand what the whole Russiagate stuff, what's real.

00:24:25.920 | Like how much of it...

00:24:27.480 | It's clear that there is more than one organization that's involved in

00:24:33.000 | communicating with Russia before the 2016 elections.

00:24:36.640 | It's pretty clear that the Clinton administration was involved.

00:24:39.800 | It's pretty clear that the Trump administration had some

00:24:43.440 | communication with some people in Russia.

00:24:45.840 | It's pretty clear that Hunter Biden had some very suspicious dealings in Ukraine.

00:24:50.840 | And there's a lot going on there, man.

00:24:53.800 | And it's hard for anybody to parse.

00:24:57.160 | It's really hard for anybody, and especially to have an objective

00:25:02.080 | assessment of exactly what's going on.

00:25:05.760 | And then to be able to do that and broadcast it publicly.

00:25:08.920 | That's quite a project.

00:25:10.400 | And I think if you really want to do that correctly, it's something that I would

00:25:14.200 | have to research for a long time and to really, really...

00:25:18.200 | And I don't have that kind of time.

00:25:19.480 | Not for maybe for certain people that you're really curious about.

00:25:24.080 | Like you have that kind of time for Bob Lazar.

00:25:26.040 | Yes.

00:25:26.760 | Yes.

00:25:27.480 | But maybe not for Donald Trump.

00:25:29.440 | No, that's different.

00:25:30.840 | Because Bob Lazar, what he's talking about, I wanted to know, with the Bob Lazar thing,

00:25:38.160 | I wanted to know, first of all, I want to be around him and see if I could smell bullshit.

00:25:42.120 | Did you?

00:25:42.600 | No.

00:25:43.080 | Okay.

00:25:44.080 | No, I didn't, man.

00:25:45.040 | That was what's weird about it.

00:25:46.280 | Not only did I not smell bullshit, I went over all of his interviews.

00:25:50.600 | I went over...

00:25:51.040 | He hasn't done a lot, but he's done enough.

00:25:53.640 | And he's done them over the course of 30 plus years.

00:25:57.880 | And it's alarming how consistent his story is, which is really weird when you think

00:26:04.240 | about, you're talking about back engineering alien crafts and working on a, you know, a

00:26:10.000 | top secret government test site that's carved into the side of a mountain to

00:26:14.640 | camouflage it from satellites.

00:26:16.440 | It's such a wacky story, but the guy really did work at Los Alamos Labs.

00:26:23.640 | He really is a propulsions expert.

00:26:25.520 | He really is a scientist.

00:26:27.960 | Did he really work on back engineering UFOs?

00:26:31.720 | I don't know.

00:26:32.280 | But the way he described their motion is exactly like what's been observed by some

00:26:38.600 | of these pilots that have these videos that they've captured.

00:26:41.200 | And I just love that, like NASA, I've been hearing from a bunch of folks who they're

00:26:45.360 | legitimately like funding research and there's people really taking the seriously of

00:26:52.040 | UFO sightings, investigating them.

00:26:54.720 | Yeah.

00:26:55.520 | Like adding more and more sensors to collect data from just observing at higher and

00:27:00.160 | higher definitions.

00:27:00.960 | It's cool to finally see that.

00:27:02.680 | And he was one of the early people, whether he's full of shit or not, that kind of

00:27:06.200 | forced people to start taking this kind of, these topics seriously.

00:27:11.360 | Or at least force people to have conversations about them and maybe attempt to debunk

00:27:17.280 | them because it seems so preposterous, but then get sucked down the rabbit hole and

00:27:21.880 | start going, "Hmm, maybe."

00:27:24.800 | It's the thing is like the Fermi paradox, like where are they, right?

00:27:28.360 | And when you take into account just the sheer raw numbers, the vast majority of

00:27:34.080 | people objectively assume that there is life out there.

00:27:38.360 | The vast majority.

00:27:40.680 | Well, if you really take into account what we understand about the universe itself,

00:27:45.480 | what we understand about the concept of infinity and the way Neil deGrasse Tyson

00:27:49.920 | has explained it to me is that not only are there life forms out there, but there's

00:27:57.080 | you.

00:27:57.600 | You are out there.

00:27:58.480 | Infinity is so large that Lex Friedman exists and doesn't just exist, but exists

00:28:04.280 | an infinite number of times.

00:28:06.120 | Like the amount of interactions that cells and molecules, the same exact interactions

00:28:13.200 | that have happened here on earth have happened in the exact same order.

00:28:18.680 | An infinite number of times in the cosmos.

00:28:21.920 | Well, first of all, it's not certain that that's true.

00:28:24.600 | It's possible.

00:28:26.160 | Like Sean Carroll, especially with quantum mechanics, based on certain

00:28:32.920 | interpretation of quantum mechanics, that's very possible.

00:28:35.760 | But the question is, can you access those universes?

00:28:39.960 | Right.

00:28:40.680 | How far away are they?

00:28:41.760 | The more specific practical question is this local pocket of the universe, our

00:28:47.680 | galaxy or neighboring galaxies, are there aliens there?

00:28:51.680 | What did they look like?

00:28:52.880 | Are they?

00:28:53.680 | So you can have this panspermia idea where a much larger, like daddy

00:29:00.840 | civilization, like rolled by and just planted a few aliens at a similar time.

00:29:08.200 | Like Prometheus.

00:29:09.160 | Yes.

00:29:09.720 | A different, you know, throughout the galaxy.

00:29:12.400 | And those are the ones we might be interacting with.

00:29:14.880 | They're all kind of dumb as we are relatively, you know, maybe a few million

00:29:20.480 | years apart and then those are the ones we're interacting with and then we have

00:29:24.160 | a chance to actually connect with them and communicate with them.

00:29:26.720 | Or it could be like much more wide open and you have these gigantic alien

00:29:32.480 | civilizations that are expanding very, very quickly.

00:29:34.960 | And the interesting thing is when you look up at the sky and you see the stars,

00:29:39.160 | that's light from those stars, we might not be seeing the alien civilizations

00:29:45.600 | until they're already here.

00:29:47.160 | Meaning like you start expanding.

00:29:50.840 | Once you get really good at expanding, you're going to be expanding

00:29:53.680 | very close to the speed of light.

00:29:54.920 | So right now we don't see much in the sky, but there could be one night, one

00:29:59.280 | day we wake up and it's just like everywhere and they're here.

00:30:03.160 | Right.

00:30:03.640 | Right.

00:30:04.000 | Because the amount of time the light takes to reach us.

00:30:05.800 | Yeah.

00:30:06.800 | And then the thing that I've been really fascinated by is these alternative forms

00:30:14.160 | of transportation that they're discussing.

00:30:16.120 | Like the ability to harness wormholes and the ability to do things that a type three

00:30:25.160 | civilization is capable of.

00:30:26.560 | I had Michio Kaku on my podcast recently.

00:30:28.800 | Fantastic.

00:30:29.760 | Love that guy.

00:30:31.880 | He's so good at taking extremely complex concepts and boiling them down for

00:30:39.440 | digestion and saying them in a way that other people can appreciate.

00:30:44.080 | And not being hesitant about saying wild, crazy shit that's out there, but grounded

00:30:49.200 | in what's actually possible.

00:30:50.920 | Yeah.

00:30:51.320 | He's all in on this UFO phenomenon now.

00:30:54.160 | He's like, now the burden of proof is to people for people to come up with some

00:30:58.560 | sort of a conventional explanation for these things.

00:31:01.760 | He goes, because these things are defying all the concepts of physics that we

00:31:07.240 | currently know in terms of what our capabilities are and propulsion systems

00:31:11.760 | and so many other things that, you know, what we know about what current science

00:31:17.040 | is capable of reproducing.

00:31:18.440 | As far as what we know.

00:31:19.800 | The problem is like these military projects that are top secret.

00:31:27.200 | Like how much money do they have?

00:31:28.600 | They have a lot of money.

00:31:29.640 | Like, but is it possible, and maybe you could speak to this.

00:31:34.120 | Is it possible that there could be some propulsion systems that have been

00:31:39.680 | developed and implemented that are far beyond just the simple burning of rocket

00:31:45.720 | fuel, pushing the fire out the back, which forces the rocket at extreme speeds

00:31:50.760 | forward, that's something that does harness gravity, something that can

00:31:56.520 | distort space and time and can make travel from one point to another

00:32:02.120 | preposterously fast?

00:32:05.000 | Well, not only is it possible, I think it's likely that that kind of stuff

00:32:11.080 | would be kept a secret.

00:32:12.880 | Yeah.

00:32:13.320 | It's just everything you see about these, about the way either if it's

00:32:19.240 | contractors like Lockheed Martin, or if it's DOD, the actual departments of

00:32:24.000 | defense, they operate in complete secrecy.

00:32:26.640 | Just even looking at the history of the stealth fighter, just even stealth

00:32:31.640 | technology was kept a secret for a very, very long time.

00:32:34.320 | And not until you're ready to use it and need to use it, does it become public

00:32:42.080 | and not officially public, it just is being detected out in the wild.

00:32:46.000 | So there's going to be a process where you're secretly testing it.

00:32:49.840 | And that might creep up, which is maybe what we're seeing.

00:32:53.360 | And then it's waiting for the next big war, the next big reason to use the

00:32:59.120 | thing.

00:32:59.480 | Yeah.

00:33:00.000 | And so, yeah, there's definitely technologies now.

00:33:03.120 | There might not be propulsion technologies, there could be AI

00:33:06.600 | surveillance technologies, there could be different kinds of stealth drones.

00:33:12.240 | There could be, it could be also in cyberspace, like cyber war weapons, all

00:33:19.440 | that kind of stuff.

00:33:19.920 | They're obviously going to be kept secret.

00:33:22.360 | I'm very skeptical lately.

00:33:24.760 | And the reason why I'm skeptical is the government keeps talking about it.

00:33:28.440 | The Pentagon keeps talking about it.

00:33:30.720 | NASA keeps talking about it.

00:33:32.240 | In which direction are you skeptical?

00:33:33.920 | I'm skeptical that it's, they're aliens.

00:33:36.040 | I think most likely it's a smoke screen.

00:33:38.720 | And most likely these are some sort of like incredibly advanced drones that

00:33:42.800 | they've developed that they want to pretend don't exist.

00:33:46.840 | That seems the more likely scenario.

00:33:49.280 | Because otherwise, my take is like, what's the benefit of them discussing

00:33:53.560 | these things?

00:33:54.240 | Like, what's the benefit of them discussing these things openly?

00:33:57.400 | These are, you know, the way they described it, off-world crafts, not made

00:34:03.840 | from this earth.

00:34:04.560 | Like, why?

00:34:06.880 | Why would they tell us that?

00:34:08.600 | I mean, unless there's an imminent danger of us being invaded and they want to

00:34:16.000 | prepare people so they don't freak out as much.

00:34:18.600 | You know, like maybe freak them out a little bit, say that publicly.

00:34:22.040 | The New York Times article, the Pentagon discussing it, all these different

00:34:26.600 | things.

00:34:26.760 | Test the waters.

00:34:27.520 | Yeah.

00:34:28.280 | Well, let people know that this is a thing.

00:34:31.320 | Yeah.

00:34:31.840 | Or my take is like, I don't think they do that.

00:34:36.800 | I don't think they tell us.

00:34:38.040 | I think they, I think, I think the government has a lot of contempt for the

00:34:43.000 | citizens.

00:34:43.640 | I really do.

00:34:44.800 | I think they have contempt for our intelligence.

00:34:46.920 | They have contempt for our need to know things.

00:34:49.360 | And I also think they think that they are running us.

00:34:52.840 | It's not, we're all in this together and the government works for the people and

00:34:57.080 | the government is of the people.

00:34:58.680 | I don't think they think that way.

00:34:59.760 | Yeah.

00:35:00.120 | The basic idea is you can't trust the populace to govern itself because we're a

00:35:05.160 | bunch of idiots.

00:35:05.920 | I think that's accurate.

00:35:07.880 | Well, they're not wrong, but they're also idiots.

00:35:12.240 | Power-hungry idiots.

00:35:13.280 | Yeah.

00:35:13.600 | I don't think they're, I don't think everyone's an idiot, but I think there

00:35:16.680 | are enough idiots that it becomes a real problem if you're completely honest about

00:35:20.760 | everything you do.

00:35:21.560 | And you know, you don't want to let everybody weigh in about things that are

00:35:27.040 | incredibly complex and that most people are ignorant of.

00:35:30.000 | And on top of that, there's this machine of intelligence.

00:35:33.120 | I've recently been reading a lot about the KGB, about the FSB.

00:35:37.280 | So I've, several things sparked my curiosity.

00:35:40.800 | So one, I'm traveling to Ukraine and to Moscow.

00:35:43.840 | And because of that, I started to sort of ask practical questions of myself, just

00:35:48.280 | traveling, all those kinds of things.

00:35:50.120 | So I started reading a lot about the KGB.

00:35:52.280 | Jack Barsky has a book on this.

00:35:54.040 | I talked to him.

00:35:54.840 | And you start to realize, you probably looked into some of this, but you just

00:35:59.680 | start to realize the scale of surveillance and manipulation.

00:36:04.880 | Now, a lot of them also talk about the incompetence of those organizations.

00:36:09.880 | The usual bureaucracy creeps in.

00:36:11.880 | But the point is, it seems like there's no line they're not willing to cross for

00:36:18.880 | the purpose of gathering intelligence, for the purpose of controlling people in

00:36:23.920 | order to gather intelligence.

00:36:25.240 | Now this is MI6, FSB.

00:36:29.800 | There's not much information about the FSB or the GRU, but the KGB.

00:36:34.760 | So we're always like 20 years behind or more on the actual information.

00:36:39.960 | And so I started to wonder, so I have not officially been contacted by any

00:36:46.520 | intelligence agency, but I started to wonder, well, is there somebody I know

00:36:52.880 | that's doing that, undercover CIA or undercover FSB, undercover anything?

00:36:59.840 | You probably do.

00:37:00.960 | Have you asked yourself this question?

00:37:03.080 | Yeah, for sure.

00:37:04.400 | Yeah.

00:37:04.800 | People that have been on my podcast.

00:37:06.240 | Yeah, for sure.

00:37:07.600 | You think there was actually a guest that may have been?

00:37:10.280 | A hundred percent.

00:37:11.120 | Oh man.

00:37:11.840 | I would imagine.

00:37:12.760 | Would you know?

00:37:13.480 | I have suspicions.

00:37:15.720 | Do you care?

00:37:16.360 | Is this?

00:37:17.240 | I mean, it depends on what they're attempting to do, right?

00:37:23.520 | Like if I felt like there was some deception involved and they were trying

00:37:27.960 | to use the podcast to manipulate a narrative in a deceptive way to trick

00:37:33.480 | people into things, yeah, I would care.

00:37:36.160 | But this is exactly what, those are the kinds of things they do.

00:37:38.840 | They do plant narratives.

00:37:40.400 | Yeah.

00:37:40.760 | I mean, I would imagine if you have the number one podcast in the world, that

00:37:46.760 | people would want to infiltrate that.

00:37:49.160 | Yeah.

00:37:49.880 | There's probably meetings in all major intelligence agencies about, okay, what

00:37:54.280 | are the large platforms?

00:37:55.560 | How do we, how do we spread the message?

00:37:59.680 | Yeah.

00:38:00.040 | Well, I mean, that's the thing that really emerged when we're talking about

00:38:04.120 | during my cancellation, that there's a clear, there's no objective analysis

00:38:10.200 | of this in mainstream media.

00:38:12.160 | There's clear narratives that they're trying to push forward to, whether it's

00:38:17.520 | to promote certain ideas or to diminish the power and reach of people who are

00:38:25.320 | mavericks or people who, who are, you know, who aren't connected to a system

00:38:31.440 | that you can't compromise.

00:38:32.960 | That's where it gets dangerous, right?

00:38:34.480 | Where it gets dangerous is when someone has the largest reach, but is also

00:38:38.880 | completely detached and clearly is independent in the sense of independent

00:38:47.480 | thinking has on whoever he wants.

00:38:50.720 | But your mind can still be manipulated.

00:38:52.920 | I guess I can.

00:38:53.840 | I mean, I guess everybody can be manipulated a certain way.

00:38:56.360 | I manipulate my own mind, I'm sure too.

00:38:58.160 | But I also spend a lot of time thinking about what I think, you know, I don't

00:39:02.440 | just accept things like, like the UFO thing.

00:39:05.640 | Like I was all in for a while and now I'm like, man, something smells fishy.

00:39:11.760 | I'm in it.

00:39:13.240 | And then I'm thinking like, why, here's my problem with the UFO thing.

00:39:16.400 | I want it to be real so bad.

00:39:18.840 | Yeah.

00:39:19.120 | That's my problem with it.

00:39:20.480 | I'm such a sucker.

00:39:21.680 | I want it to be real so bad, you know?

00:39:25.200 | And that's, that's a problem for me because I'm aware of it.

00:39:29.560 | And so then I stop and think about like, what is, what, what is my desire

00:39:34.280 | for UFO truth to be exposed?

00:39:39.280 | Well, it's cause it's fun.

00:39:40.360 | You know, that's what it is.

00:39:42.720 | So I have a desire to, for it to be real.

00:39:45.080 | And I mean, I've talked to, I talked to a bunch of folks about this.

00:39:49.480 | So those with connection with DOD, and they do draw lines between people

00:39:56.520 | that are full of shit and people who are not.

00:39:58.960 | There's a lot of people in the public sphere that they say are full of shit.

00:40:02.200 | Yeah, for sure.

00:40:04.160 | And then you have to kind of tell the difference.

00:40:06.560 | Yeah.

00:40:06.880 | CNN, watch them talk.

00:40:08.640 | Well, I mean, even, yes, that picture.

00:40:11.240 | But I meant on the UFO topic.

00:40:13.040 | Oh, the UFO topic.

00:40:13.880 | There's certain individuals that are like, okay, they're just like using this.

00:40:17.560 | In fact, like people who are not full of shit are often very quiet.

00:40:21.840 | Right.

00:40:22.680 | Which is why, you know, even Bob Lazar is an interesting story

00:40:25.440 | because he was trying to be quiet for the longest time.

00:40:28.440 | Well, he was worried about his own life, according to Bob.

00:40:31.200 | And that's why he went public with it.

00:40:33.040 | And initially, the first videos he did with George Knapp,

00:40:35.840 | they hid his identity.

00:40:37.440 | Yeah.

00:40:37.880 | Yeah.

00:40:38.800 | And then he felt like that wasn't enough.

00:40:40.760 | And he really needed to expose his own identity just to protect his life.

00:40:44.760 | Which is a great story, you know, so you got to go, well, that seems so juicy.

00:40:50.960 | I want to buy into it.

00:40:52.360 | And that's where I get nervous.

00:40:53.400 | You don't know.

00:40:53.800 | You don't know who to trust in this world.

00:40:55.240 | Right, exactly.

00:40:55.960 | How do you figure that out?

00:40:57.920 | How do you figure out who to trust in your life?

00:40:59.840 | You're Joe Rogan.

00:41:00.560 | A lot of people want to be close to you.

00:41:01.760 | CIA agents, FSB agents, people that want...

00:41:06.280 | I'm friends with a former CIA agent, Mike Baker,

00:41:09.160 | who's been on my podcast a bunch of times.

00:41:10.720 | Allegedly former.

00:41:11.840 | Former.

00:41:12.400 | Think about that.

00:41:13.000 | He's air quotes former.

00:41:14.160 | Yeah.

00:41:14.480 | Yeah.

00:41:14.760 | I don't believe he's former.

00:41:16.040 | I'm sure he has some connection to him.

00:41:17.840 | I also believe he's a good guy.

00:41:19.640 | But I gain a lot of very intelligent

00:41:23.280 | and well-informed insights from him as to how things work.

00:41:26.200 | And I think--

00:41:29.880 | yeah, I'm sure he doesn't tell me everything about everything.

00:41:32.840 | But he's told me enough where I think

00:41:35.960 | I can understand things better from talking to him about how

00:41:40.800 | the way the elves work under the machine.

00:41:46.200 | What about friends?

00:41:47.680 | How do you know if you can trust?

00:41:49.080 | Well, most of my friends are old friends.

00:41:51.280 | Time.

00:41:51.800 | So time is the thing.

00:41:53.480 | Like just going through shit together.

00:41:56.000 | Yeah, and also people that--

00:41:58.920 | first of all, comics.

00:42:01.480 | You can trust comics?

00:42:02.480 | Yeah.

00:42:03.000 | Is that how that works?

00:42:03.960 | Comics are pretty trustworthy.

00:42:05.240 | The good ones, the really good ones.

00:42:06.920 | There's not that many of us.

00:42:08.920 | If there's 1,000 professional comics on Earth, I'd be stunned.

00:42:14.560 | I'd be stunned.

00:42:15.360 | I don't even think there's 1,000.

00:42:16.800 | Real professionals who you get booked all the time,

00:42:20.400 | headline weekends at clubs and theaters and arenas.

00:42:25.120 | And then there's levels to that, right?

00:42:26.880 | There's the guys who are middle acts, who

00:42:30.200 | kind of barely scrape by.

00:42:32.200 | And then how many headliners are there?

00:42:34.160 | How many really funny headliners that I would say--

00:42:36.800 | Lex, you tell me you're going to be in Cincinnati.

00:42:39.400 | Hey, this person's playing at this club.

00:42:41.240 | Should I go see them?

00:42:42.520 | I'd be like, eh.

00:42:44.720 | How many people would I give the recommendation to?

00:42:48.000 | And then how many people sell out theaters?

00:42:51.080 | How many people sell out arenas?

00:42:53.480 | There's not that fucking many.

00:42:55.080 | So those people, at the levels of comedy

00:42:59.360 | where you've been doing stand-up for 20 years,

00:43:03.120 | there's a certain amount of honesty

00:43:04.880 | and a certain amount of understanding of each other

00:43:06.960 | that we all have.

00:43:07.880 | Oh, so that process of becoming a great comic

00:43:10.560 | is humbling in the way like jujitsu is humbling.

00:43:13.160 | Very similar.

00:43:14.800 | You've eaten so much shit that somehow, even if you're insane,

00:43:20.160 | even if you're chaotic, even in the way--

00:43:23.080 | even if you're full of shit, you lie a lot,

00:43:25.000 | all those kinds of things, underneath it,

00:43:27.600 | there's a good human.

00:43:29.040 | You could be surface bullshitter,

00:43:30.720 | but on important things, you're trustworthy.

00:43:33.680 | Hopefully.

00:43:34.720 | I mean, if you're not, then people shy away from you.

00:43:37.120 | And there are people like that, too, that are really successful,

00:43:39.920 | but that are what I call islands.

00:43:43.200 | I've talked to other comics about that.

00:43:44.800 | You don't want to be an island, because there's

00:43:46.680 | these people that aren't attached to the rest of the community,

00:43:49.520 | and they're doing well on their own.

00:43:51.400 | And usually, they have one opening act.

00:43:53.280 | They bring with them on the road.

00:43:54.680 | They've worked with forever, and they

00:43:56.960 | don't have comedy friends.

00:43:59.280 | And those people are miserable, because they can't relate.

00:44:03.560 | Sometimes fame in itself is isolating.

00:44:06.120 | So you have to actually do a lot of work

00:44:07.760 | and make sure it doesn't isolate you.

00:44:10.280 | Because if you become successful,

00:44:12.560 | people start wanting stuff from you.

00:44:15.040 | And then sometimes you want to push them away because of that,

00:44:17.600 | as opposed to connect with them.

00:44:19.840 | Yeah, I don't enjoy it when people want things from me.

00:44:22.720 | It's not fun.

00:44:23.400 | You just ignore it.

00:44:24.480 | Yeah, it's fucking too heavy.

00:44:26.600 | They want too much.

00:44:27.640 | And it's too much of a disproportionate relationship.

00:44:32.400 | It's too unbalanced.

00:44:34.360 | Because there are people where you

00:44:36.560 | could tell that they're working towards something.

00:44:39.960 | They're working towards an angle.

00:44:41.960 | And they want to be close to you,

00:44:44.140 | because you will benefit them.

00:44:46.400 | And then there's other people that are just--

00:44:48.840 | there's not that many of us.

00:44:50.160 | And so we all want to hang out together.

00:44:52.560 | One of the podcasts I love the most

00:44:54.480 | is this podcast I do called Protect Our Parks.

00:44:57.680 | It's a thing I do with Ari Shafir, Shane Gillis,

00:45:00.640 | and Mark Nolan.

00:45:01.280 | That's great.

00:45:01.880 | It's so fun, because we just get obliterated.

00:45:04.920 | And we talk so much shit.

00:45:07.360 | There's conversations after that podcast where I go, hey, man,

00:45:09.840 | we got to cut that part out.

00:45:11.560 | Because Shane will go too far.

00:45:13.640 | He'll go too crazy.

00:45:14.680 | But we're just making each other laugh.

00:45:16.440 | And it's just fun.

00:45:17.920 | And it's like that kind of camaraderie between real comics

00:45:21.320 | is very precious to me.

00:45:22.560 | My favorite part of that is the non sequitur stuff

00:45:25.120 | from Mark Norman.

00:45:26.480 | And you guys get so trashed that you don't even

00:45:28.720 | understand what the hell he's talking about.

00:45:30.260 | But it's funny to the listener, because he's still on point.

00:45:33.120 | That guy is sharp.

00:45:34.480 | He's so good.

00:45:35.560 | He's got that Midge Hedberg quality.

00:45:37.440 | Yes.

00:45:38.440 | Well, he's such a dedicated comic.

00:45:41.520 | He loves comedy so much.

00:45:43.360 | That's one of the things I love about him.

00:45:45.120 | He's like, comedy!

00:45:46.160 | He gets excited.

00:45:47.520 | He loves it.

00:45:48.520 | As does Shane, and as does Ari.

00:45:50.920 | They really love it.

00:45:53.680 | So there's that.

00:45:54.960 | I have friends in that way.

00:45:56.200 | And I have martial arts friends who are some of the--

00:45:58.840 | also, the thing about being humbled, how things like jujitsu

00:46:02.520 | will humble you.

00:46:03.600 | Martial arts friends, they know who's been through it.

00:46:11.600 | They know who really has gone through the gauntlet

00:46:15.400 | and emerged on the other end a better person.

00:46:18.440 | Well, you said there's very few of us.

00:46:20.880 | Let's have the goat discussion.

00:46:22.280 | You're not going to pick anybody,

00:46:23.680 | but who are the greats of comedy?

00:46:25.920 | Who's the greatest comic of all time?

00:46:29.360 | I don't think there is a greatest comic of all time.

00:46:32.520 | Is it Norm Macdonald?

00:46:34.440 | Norm Macdonald was one of the greats, for sure.

00:46:36.920 | Well, by the way, actually, on that topic, what do you

00:46:39.280 | think about his--

00:46:40.200 | I think as a person who is fascinated by the fear of death

00:46:42.840 | and death, I think it was a truly genius thing

00:46:47.440 | to release a special after you're dead.

00:46:50.240 | I don't know how that worked.

00:46:51.440 | I haven't seen the special of you.

00:46:53.000 | Yeah, it's called, I think, Nothing Special.

00:46:58.720 | Which sounds like something Norm would say.

00:47:00.840 | And it's basically him in front of--

00:47:04.360 | I mean, I imagine he wouldn't want to edit it that way,

00:47:08.480 | because it's made to look nicer than I think he probably

00:47:11.560 | would have preferred it.

00:47:13.280 | But it's him in front of the screen, like in a Zoom call,

00:47:17.680 | doing jokes without cold.

00:47:21.600 | Really?

00:47:22.080 | Yeah.

00:47:22.760 | And somehow, given his dry, dark humor,

00:47:28.800 | it works, because it's almost making fun of itself,

00:47:32.200 | almost making fun of that hole that we were stuck alone

00:47:36.440 | inside.

00:47:38.080 | And because he's still acting as if he's

00:47:40.400 | in front of the audience, and is almost making fun of the fact

00:47:43.920 | that this is what we're forced to do.

00:47:45.600 | I mean, it's quite genius.

00:47:46.640 | It's really well done.

00:47:47.600 | The jokes are really good.

00:47:49.080 | But it also makes you realize how important laughter

00:47:51.600 | is from the audience, the energy from the audience.

00:47:55.320 | But there's also an intimacy, because it's just you and him.

00:47:58.720 | Because you're listening to it.

00:48:00.120 | You know there's no audience.

00:48:02.280 | I don't know.

00:48:02.800 | I think it's quite genius.

00:48:04.600 | And he is, of course--

00:48:05.720 | there's certain comics that are like, not only are they funny,

00:48:10.360 | but they're truly unique.

00:48:11.960 | Not in terms of friendship and all that kind of stuff,

00:48:19.400 | but in terms of comedy, they're an island.

00:48:23.200 | Mitch Hedberg probably is that.

00:48:25.080 | Of course, a lot of people then start to imitate them,

00:48:27.680 | and so on.

00:48:28.160 | Stephen Wright.

00:48:29.280 | Stephen Wright.

00:48:30.680 | I mean, there's people who are like--

00:48:32.880 | Dave Chappelle, who's probably one of the greats.

00:48:36.840 | But he's just raw funny.

00:48:39.360 | I don't know if he's an island.

00:48:41.040 | He's just raw.

00:48:42.160 | Yeah, I know what you're saying.

00:48:43.520 | An outlier, a unique individual.

00:48:45.400 | Yeah, he's just great.

00:48:48.040 | Norm was definitely unique in his greatness.

00:48:51.120 | There's only one Norm, who's got a very specific style.

00:48:54.600 | Is there a reason you guys weren't--

00:48:56.120 | it doesn't seem like you guys were close.

00:48:59.000 | I mean, I loved him.

00:49:00.040 | He was great.

00:49:00.680 | I always enjoyed talking to him.

00:49:04.040 | We just didn't work together that often.

00:49:05.680 | We weren't around each other that often.

00:49:07.280 | That's all it was.

00:49:08.280 | But it wasn't like--

00:49:10.200 | I loved him, though.

00:49:11.720 | He was a great guy.

00:49:12.560 | I had a funny story about Norm.

00:49:15.000 | Twice, just randomly, I was on airplanes next to him,

00:49:19.280 | seated right next to him.

00:49:20.320 | Just totally random.

00:49:22.000 | And one time, we're on this airplane,

00:49:25.360 | and we're having this talk.

00:49:26.600 | And I was like, yeah, I quit smoking.

00:49:28.960 | I was smoking a lot, and just terrible, terrible smoking.

00:49:32.960 | It's terrible for you.

00:49:34.440 | And we have this great conversation.

00:49:35.920 | We get off the plane.

00:49:37.240 | And he sprints towards a store and buys cigarettes,

00:49:41.720 | like in the airport, and is lighting it

00:49:44.440 | on the way out the door.

00:49:46.760 | And I go, I thought you quit smoking.

00:49:48.320 | He goes, yeah, I did.

00:49:49.320 | But all that talking about smoking

00:49:51.040 | made me want to smoke again.

00:49:52.280 | [LAUGHTER]

00:49:55.720 | Before he's getting through the door of the airport,

00:49:57.920 | he's lighting it up.

00:49:58.760 | I can't wait.

00:50:01.080 | He can't wait to get that cigarette in him.

00:50:03.480 | He's just so crazy and impulsive and loved to gamble.

00:50:08.560 | He loved gambling.

00:50:10.000 | And in that way, he embodied the joke.

00:50:12.640 | You can't even tell.

00:50:13.560 | There's certain people just live in a non sequitur,

00:50:19.240 | ridiculous, absurd, funny way.

00:50:21.760 | Yeah, that was him.

00:50:23.760 | Non-stop.

00:50:25.080 | There was nothing artificial about Norm.

00:50:28.280 | That was who he was.

00:50:30.040 | His brilliance was his essence.

00:50:33.280 | That was who he was.

00:50:35.440 | But in terms of the greats, the godfather of it

00:50:39.240 | all is Lenny Bruce.

00:50:41.280 | I have a bunch of Lenny Bruce concert posters at my house

00:50:45.120 | and photos that I have framed.

00:50:46.800 | And Whitney Cummings actually gave me

00:50:48.400 | this brilliant photo of him when he got arrested for one

00:50:51.920 | of the times, when he got arrested

00:50:53.400 | for saying obscene jokes.

00:50:55.960 | He was the most important figure in the early days of comedy

00:51:00.640 | because he essentially gave birth

00:51:03.120 | to the modern art form of stand-up comedy.

00:51:05.800 | Before that, it was a bunch of guys

00:51:07.240 | that were hosting shows, and they would tell jokes.

00:51:10.880 | They would just like, two guys walking to a bar,

00:51:14.840 | that kind of stuff.

00:51:16.000 | And he would talk about social issues.

00:51:21.720 | He would talk about life.

00:51:23.240 | He would talk about language.

00:51:24.640 | He would talk about laws.

00:51:27.400 | And it was just, he was the very first guy

00:51:31.600 | who did modern stand-up.

00:51:33.840 | And what's fascinating is if you go and you try to watch it,

00:51:39.280 | if you try to watch Lenny Bruce today,

00:51:41.200 | it doesn't work because society has evolved.

00:51:46.240 | In many ways, art is a window, especially like pop culture

00:51:50.120 | or modern, at the time, culture art,

00:51:57.600 | art that discusses culture, is a window into that time period.

00:52:01.680 | It's a little bit of a time machine.

00:52:03.400 | So you get to like, you have to put yourself,

00:52:05.880 | like what was it like to be in 1963?

00:52:08.600 | Like what was he, in 1963, what was this

00:52:10.960 | like to hear him say this?

00:52:13.520 | And the civilization that existed in 1963,

00:52:18.560 | although it looked pretty similar,

00:52:20.600 | they're all driving cars and they're all wearing suits

00:52:23.000 | and it seems normal.

00:52:24.920 | It's a different world.

00:52:27.040 | And the things that he was saying that are so taboo

00:52:30.240 | are so normal today that they're not shocking.

00:52:34.440 | And it's not that good.

00:52:36.520 | It's not that funny.

00:52:37.480 | - Yeah, you have to do the same kind of stuff for,

00:52:41.040 | like there's D.H. Lawrence has a book called

00:52:43.000 | "Lady Shadowy's Lover."

00:52:45.560 | And I know it sounds ridiculous,

00:52:46.800 | but it was one of the early books,

00:52:48.480 | I believe it over a century ago,

00:52:52.360 | that was very controversial for its sexual content.

00:52:55.080 | It's sort of one of the great books

00:52:56.440 | because it dared to actually talk about

00:52:59.320 | a woman cheating on her husband

00:53:01.720 | and do so in the highest form.

00:53:04.840 | And the same thing with "Gulag Archipelago,"

00:53:07.080 | talking about some of the darkest aspects of human history

00:53:11.000 | right when all of that stuff is forbidden,

00:53:14.000 | when it's banned.

00:53:15.120 | 'Cause now it's like, yes, we all know this history,

00:53:18.960 | but when in the middle of it,

00:53:20.680 | when you're risking your own life,

00:53:22.000 | when you're risking your book being banned or burned

00:53:25.240 | or you being in prison, that's when it matters,

00:53:28.040 | like taking that risk.

00:53:29.400 | - Yeah, and no one took that risk more than Lenny Bruce.

00:53:32.560 | Lenny Bruce was arrested many, many times.

00:53:35.000 | And ultimately, it wound up costing him his life.

00:53:39.240 | I mean, he died on the bathroom floor, shooting heroin

00:53:42.440 | and trying to cope with all the lawsuits

00:53:44.800 | that he was going through.

00:53:45.720 | I mean, this guy was constantly being arrested

00:53:47.960 | and constantly going through lawsuits.

00:53:50.120 | And then his comedy deteriorated horribly.

00:53:53.120 | There's some footage of him towards the end of his career

00:53:56.480 | where he essentially would go on stage with legal papers

00:53:58.960 | and read from the legal papers about his case.

00:54:01.720 | From then, it's Richard Pryor.

00:54:03.360 | From him, then the next great is Richard Pryor.

00:54:05.800 | And he had the most profound impact on me when I was a kid.

00:54:09.440 | When I was 15 years old,

00:54:10.400 | my parents took me to see "Live at the Sunset Strip,"

00:54:13.640 | which is a Richard Pryor's concert film.

00:54:15.880 | And I remember very distinctly being in that audience

00:54:20.880 | and laughing and looking around at all the people

00:54:24.400 | in the audience who were like falling out of their chairs,

00:54:27.600 | just dying laughing, just swaying back and forth.

00:54:32.320 | And I was laughing hard too.

00:54:33.680 | And I was like, my God, this guy's doing this

00:54:35.840 | just by talking.

00:54:37.360 | And I thought of all the great movies that I'd seen

00:54:39.400 | that I loved that were hilarious comedy movies.

00:54:42.200 | And I was like, nothing that I've ever seen

00:54:44.240 | is as funny as this.

00:54:45.520 | And all he's doing is talking.

00:54:47.680 | And that planted a seed in my head

00:54:50.640 | for my love of standup comedy

00:54:52.760 | and my curiosity about the art form.

00:54:55.240 | And that's what got me interested in watching it

00:54:57.960 | on television and then ultimately going to open mic nights

00:55:01.520 | and then eventually doing it.

00:55:04.240 | - I've actually been going to open mics a lot recently,

00:55:07.080 | just listening. - Oh.

00:55:08.040 | For psychological examinations of people.

00:55:11.240 | - No, it's actually really inspiring to me

00:55:14.360 | to see people that, you know, some are funny,

00:55:17.560 | some are not so funny, unapologetically trying.

00:55:22.280 | - Yeah. - Putting it all out there

00:55:23.320 | night after night, like eating shit.

00:55:26.880 | - Yeah. - My favorite is when,

00:55:29.400 | you know, you're talking about like five people

00:55:31.200 | in the audience and the jokes are just not landing.

00:55:35.680 | (Luke laughing)

00:55:37.040 | And they still, I don't know,

00:55:39.520 | it feels like even just empathetically,

00:55:42.600 | there's few things as difficult as that.

00:55:45.000 | - It's hard.

00:55:46.400 | I still remember those days. - It's inspiring.

00:55:48.560 | - Many comics will say this,

00:55:49.840 | and I think Dane Cook was the first person

00:55:51.720 | I heard say it publicly,

00:55:53.160 | that if he ever had to go back and do it again,

00:55:55.880 | like from scratch, doesn't think he could do it,

00:55:57.880 | doesn't think he could endure the struggle of open mic

00:56:02.400 | to, you know, ultimately to success.

00:56:05.600 | And the numbers of people that try it

00:56:08.020 | and fail versus try and succeed are off the charts.

00:56:13.020 | I don't know if there's any other art form

00:56:15.520 | that has such a low rate of success.

00:56:18.560 | - 'Cause it's psychological, it's torture.

00:56:20.440 | - It is torture, and it's also not something you can learn.

00:56:23.720 | Like, here's the thing, like, if you play guitar,

00:56:27.800 | you can learn to play guitar.

00:56:29.580 | Someone can teach you the chords.

00:56:30.800 | And if you do it, you could do "All Along the Watchtower,"

00:56:34.800 | you could play it.

00:56:36.440 | You can't teach someone how to do comedy.

00:56:39.600 | - You think it's, you're funny or not,

00:56:41.020 | or can you still figure it out?

00:56:44.800 | Like, can you still learn?

00:56:45.640 | - Yeah, you can figure it out, yeah.

00:56:47.160 | - Can you start being unfunny and become funny?

00:56:51.600 | - Yes, it's possible.

00:56:53.280 | It's not easy, though.

00:56:54.840 | - You're gonna have to eat a lot of shit.

00:56:56.520 | - You're gonna have to eat a lot of shit,

00:56:57.640 | and you're gonna have to examine why you're not funny.

00:57:00.340 | And you're gonna have to spend a lot of time

00:57:03.260 | with uncomfortable thoughts

00:57:05.200 | and try to figure out what it is.

00:57:07.480 | Like, what's missing?

00:57:08.580 | Could you edit your stuff and make it better?

00:57:13.260 | Maybe you need to do drugs.

00:57:15.220 | Maybe you need to get involved in psychedelic drugs

00:57:17.860 | and rethink the way you interface with reality itself.

00:57:21.680 | Maybe you need your heart broken.

00:57:23.800 | Maybe you need to be in love.

00:57:25.400 | Maybe, there's a lot of maybes there.

00:57:28.280 | Maybe you just need more life experience.

00:57:29.900 | But when I started comedy, I was 21, and I was a moron.

00:57:33.500 | I had no information.

00:57:36.220 | I could do impressions of people,

00:57:38.540 | and I could talk about sex.

00:57:40.120 | Those are the things that I was interested in back then.

00:57:43.700 | I mean, if I was talking philosophically,

00:57:45.500 | I didn't have a philosophy.

00:57:47.380 | I didn't have a unique perspective on life.

00:57:50.380 | I hadn't experienced much.

00:57:52.140 | - So every time you bomb,

00:57:53.140 | it forces you to introspect, to ask questions of yourself,

00:57:56.620 | and then that's how you actually develop a philosophy

00:57:59.760 | of what you actually believe.

00:58:00.900 | - You learn through doing.

00:58:03.300 | And I think you could say that about podcasting, too.

00:58:06.100 | You know, I'm certainly way better at having conversations

00:58:09.060 | than I ever was when I first started doing comedy.

00:58:11.780 | Or, excuse me, when I first started doing podcasts.

00:58:14.020 | - You learn, stick with it, kid,

00:58:15.580 | because one day you'll be able to interview Donald Trump.

00:58:18.580 | You'd be mad enough to handle that conversation.

00:58:22.660 | How hard is it to do?

00:58:25.180 | 'Cause I've been really curious.

00:58:27.380 | It's been on my bucket list because I'm terrified.

00:58:29.660 | I wanna do everything I'm terrified of.

00:58:31.220 | - You gotta do standup?

00:58:32.220 | - No, but I do wanna do one five-minute open mic.

00:58:37.220 | - Why don't you do "Kill Tony"?

00:58:38.940 | - How hard is it to do five minutes, would you say?

00:58:41.060 | - It's hard.

00:58:42.500 | Well, it depends on how long you've been thinking

00:58:45.260 | about doing comedy.

00:58:46.660 | It depends on how you look at things.

00:58:49.020 | And also depends on your style of comedy.

00:58:51.020 | The most difficult style of comedy is,

00:58:53.100 | I think, Stephen Wright's style

00:58:55.100 | is probably the most difficult style of comedy,

00:58:57.140 | complete non sequiturs.

00:58:58.740 | One subject doesn't lead into the next.

00:59:00.940 | There's no flow to it.

00:59:02.220 | It's just, I noticed this, I noticed that.

00:59:05.140 | And then there's this, and then there's that.

00:59:07.140 | And that's hard to memorize.

00:59:10.060 | And it's really hard to piece together

00:59:11.980 | an hour of non sequiturs.

00:59:14.900 | - But it's easier because you can rely on the joke.

00:59:18.060 | It sits more with the joke.

00:59:19.820 | Like, whether you're funny or not is on the actual material

00:59:24.360 | versus like the timing and the energy,

00:59:26.860 | the dance with the audience, right?

00:59:28.740 | 'Cause like, if you don't have the raw jokes,

00:59:31.420 | like Stephen Wright does or Mitch Hedberg,

00:59:33.520 | then you have to, it's all about the delivery.

00:59:37.380 | - Yeah, and yeah, they either kill or they bomb.

00:59:40.860 | - Is it random?

00:59:43.660 | - Whether they kill or bomb?

00:59:44.500 | - Yeah.

00:59:45.380 | - Well, I mean-- - In the beginning, I mean.

00:59:46.620 | - You're essentially a different person

00:59:48.460 | every day of your life.

00:59:49.780 | You know, you're similar, but you're more tired,

00:59:54.100 | you're more rested, you're exhausted, you're refreshed,

00:59:58.300 | you have vitamins and food nourishment in your system,

01:00:01.500 | you just get your heart broken, you haven't slept in days.

01:00:04.380 | You're a different person all the time.

01:00:06.580 | And you go onto that stage,

01:00:09.480 | you're in the neighborhood of who Lex Friedman is.

01:00:14.540 | You're in the Lex Friedman neighborhood.

01:00:15.860 | Which Lex Friedman am I gonna get?

01:00:17.420 | - Yeah.

01:00:18.260 | - You know?

01:00:19.100 | - Energy levels. - Yeah.

01:00:20.220 | - It depends, it all depends.

01:00:21.700 | But oh, the other thing with "Kill Tony" is it's videotaped.

01:00:25.860 | - Yes.

01:00:26.700 | - So you eating shit--

01:00:28.500 | - Is on there forever.

01:00:29.500 | - Forever.

01:00:30.340 | - The world can see it.

01:00:31.300 | But it's one of the most important shows in comedy.

01:00:33.820 | It's the most important show in comedy.

01:00:36.260 | Because first of all, it establishes standup

01:00:40.900 | in a sense that like for the open micers,

01:00:44.340 | for the people that are starting it out,

01:00:45.700 | it establishes that the most important thing is to be funny.

01:00:49.740 | Like this is what the art form is all about.

01:00:51.780 | And there's a lot of insecurity attached to that,

01:00:53.460 | and a lot of fears.

01:00:54.660 | And so to alleviate some of those insecurities and fears,

01:00:57.820 | people will decide that the message is more important.

01:01:02.820 | And they'll pretend that you have to have,

01:01:06.220 | you have to be socially aware

01:01:13.940 | that you have to promote things

01:01:16.460 | that are positive in your comedy, which is bullshit.

01:01:20.300 | The people that say that, they're all bad.

01:01:22.780 | They're all bad at comedy.

01:01:24.100 | And that's where the insecurity is.

01:01:25.860 | It's like, they can't just kill.

01:01:27.460 | So they have to pretend

01:01:28.540 | that they're supposed to be socially aware.

01:01:30.540 | And that being socially aware

01:01:31.780 | is an important part into society.

01:01:33.860 | Like, let me explain something really clearly.

01:01:36.260 | There's not a fucking person on earth

01:01:38.260 | who's ever changed their life because of a joke.

01:01:41.700 | That's not what they're there for.

01:01:43.100 | They're there for jokes.

01:01:44.260 | The people that say that,

01:01:45.980 | they say that socially important comedy

01:01:48.460 | is the only comedy that's necessary.

01:01:50.660 | The only comedy that you have to do.

01:01:52.220 | That is just because they suck.

01:01:53.980 | - Yeah. - That is it.

01:01:55.300 | It's like the cop out is that

01:01:57.460 | they can't do the real comedy.

01:01:59.140 | They can't crush.

01:02:00.300 | It's not like someone goes from being,

01:02:02.380 | take like Shane Gillis,

01:02:04.780 | one of the best comics up and coming right now.

01:02:06.780 | He's fucking fantastic.

01:02:08.340 | I can't recommend enough seeing that guy live.

01:02:10.980 | I work with him in Irvine

01:02:12.660 | and I hadn't seen like his whole set.

01:02:14.740 | I was crying.

01:02:16.020 | I mean, he's so good.

01:02:17.260 | - I heard he's a racist.

01:02:18.500 | So I haven't listened to any of his material, no.

01:02:21.700 | - He's so good.

01:02:23.100 | And his comedy is just all,

01:02:26.420 | just trying to be as funny as possible.

01:02:29.500 | There's not a chance in hell

01:02:30.460 | that guy's just gonna go woke.

01:02:32.260 | And he's just gonna start promoting

01:02:33.660 | some sort of socially conscious agenda

01:02:38.300 | that's facetious and just a bunch of nonsense

01:02:41.860 | that he's trying to elevate his own personal brand

01:02:45.460 | and virtue signal.

01:02:46.940 | That's not gonna happen.

01:02:48.420 | The thing about "Kill Tony" is,

01:02:50.780 | in that, because you only have one minute

01:02:53.060 | and because it's live

01:02:54.500 | and because you don't want Tony shitting on you

01:02:56.180 | or everybody else shitting on,

01:02:57.300 | everybody's just gearing up

01:02:58.700 | to try to be as funny as possible.

01:03:01.020 | And no one cares if you are gay or straight

01:03:05.060 | or Asian or black or trans or non-binary.

01:03:08.700 | Nobody gives a fuck.

01:03:10.100 | Are you funny?

01:03:11.540 | If you're funny, you're in and everybody loves you.

01:03:14.220 | You could be 80, you could be 20.

01:03:16.980 | Nobody gives a shit.

01:03:18.460 | You could be a woman or a man or ambiguous.

01:03:21.620 | Nobody fucking cares.

01:03:23.260 | Are you funny?

01:03:24.100 | And that's the most important thing

01:03:25.420 | for a community of comedy,

01:03:26.940 | to really promote comedy.

01:03:29.860 | Just funny, just be funny.

01:03:32.220 | And so in that sense,

01:03:34.340 | "Kill Tony" is a real cornerstone of comedy.

01:03:37.300 | - It's a reminder of what comedy's supposed to be about.

01:03:39.460 | That said, even the funniest stuff

01:03:43.140 | has underneath it some wisdom that comes out of it.

01:03:46.060 | But that's not the primary goal of it.

01:03:47.980 | - Yeah, I mean, it might be inspiring and fun.

01:03:50.460 | Oh, Tim Dillon's a great example of that.

01:03:52.020 | Yeah, he's got some amazing insights in his comedy,

01:03:55.340 | but it's still-

01:03:56.540 | - It's all about-

01:03:57.460 | - It's fucking comedy.

01:03:58.420 | - It's all about the funny.

01:03:59.540 | - Yeah, it's all about the funny.

01:04:00.700 | He's the best at doing that,

01:04:02.620 | especially in a podcast form,

01:04:04.340 | about weaving really important points in with hilarious,

01:04:09.140 | obviously, just jokes.

01:04:14.140 | - Let me ask you, speaking of Tim Dillon,

01:04:18.020 | a chaotic, fucked up individual,

01:04:19.900 | can we go to your childhood real quick?

01:04:23.340 | A brief stroll.

01:04:25.740 | So your mom and dad split up when you were five.

01:04:28.620 | From a Jungian perspective,

01:04:32.180 | if you look at your subconscious,

01:04:34.460 | what impact do you think that had on you

01:04:37.100 | in forming who you are as a man, as a human being?

01:04:40.500 | - Well, at the time,

01:04:42.100 | I thought that my father was like a hero.

01:04:45.580 | You know, he was my dad.

01:04:47.140 | I think every kid thinks like that about his dad.

01:04:49.660 | His dad is like, your dad's your protector.

01:04:52.620 | Your dad is like the coolest guy in the world.

01:04:54.620 | That's what you like.

01:04:55.460 | - You wanna be like him.

01:04:56.300 | - Yeah, everybody wants to be like their dad,

01:04:58.300 | especially if your dad is like an imposing figure.

01:05:01.380 | I remember one time me and my cousin got in a fight

01:05:04.220 | over nothing.

01:05:05.060 | It was like over who's tougher, King Kong or Godzilla.

01:05:08.620 | - Yeah, over nothing.

01:05:10.100 | That's an important, but yeah.

01:05:11.860 | - He's like-

01:05:13.780 | - Actual fight, actual physical fight.

01:05:14.620 | - Oh, I punched him in the face.

01:05:16.020 | And-

01:05:17.100 | - This is when you were like five?

01:05:19.220 | - Yeah, yeah.

01:05:20.060 | And so-

01:05:20.900 | - Which side were you on?

01:05:22.100 | - King Kong.

01:05:22.940 | - Okay.

01:05:23.780 | - I was wrong.

01:05:24.620 | Godzilla's like way bigger.

01:05:26.500 | Godzilla's 500 feet tall and he shoots fire out of his mouth.

01:05:30.500 | - Yeah.

01:05:31.340 | Yeah, are you sure?

01:05:32.340 | I mean, there's an argument to be made.

01:05:35.340 | It's not all about size, right?

01:05:37.380 | - No, there's no argument to be made.

01:05:38.980 | 500 feet tall versus 50 feet tall.

01:05:41.180 | One's a gigantic dinosaur.

01:05:42.980 | One is a stupid monkey who gets shot down by a plane.

01:05:46.540 | You can't kill Godzilla.

01:05:47.380 | - You don't think a monkey can ride Godzilla?

01:05:48.860 | Like kick him back?

01:05:49.900 | - No, no.

01:05:50.740 | You can't kill Godzilla with a plane.

01:05:52.860 | (imitates plane engine)

01:05:55.020 | Like that shit wouldn't work in Godzilla.

01:05:57.260 | Killed King Kong.

01:05:58.280 | King Kong in the new movies kept growing.

01:06:02.220 | - He's getting bigger and bigger.

01:06:03.060 | - He got to the point where he's as big as Godzilla.

01:06:05.900 | - It just feels like King Kong is stronger.

01:06:08.620 | - Stop.

01:06:09.460 | - Back take, back take.

01:06:12.620 | Immediate back take.

01:06:13.900 | You don't think there's a back take?

01:06:15.380 | There's a difference between human weapons

01:06:18.900 | and two animals going at it of a different size.

01:06:21.500 | You don't think there's, in the jungle,

01:06:23.620 | a smaller animal could take on a bigger animal?

01:06:25.380 | Like a monkey versus a, let's see, a lion.

01:06:29.780 | Monkey versus a bear.

01:06:31.380 | - What?

01:06:32.220 | - Who wins?

01:06:33.060 | - A monkey versus a bear?

01:06:33.900 | - Not a monkey.

01:06:34.740 | What's the strongest ape?

01:06:36.620 | No, but gorilla, okay.

01:06:39.500 | Gorilla can't do back takes.

01:06:40.740 | I'm thinking of like a smaller, you know what I'm saying?

01:06:44.500 | 'Cause in Jujitsu, you see this all the time.

01:06:46.100 | - Do you remember that scene in "Talladega Nights"?

01:06:48.900 | Do you know "Talladega Nights"?

01:06:50.340 | Where the little boy's talking to his grandpa.

01:06:52.380 | "I'll be all over you like a spider monkey."

01:06:55.460 | - Exactly, spider monkey.

01:06:56.540 | I was thinking, all right.

01:06:58.220 | - There's some animals, like here's a better example.

01:07:00.580 | A wolverine.

01:07:01.660 | Wolverines chase wolves and bears off of their kills.

01:07:05.700 | And they're not very big at all.

01:07:07.140 | They're just so ferocious.

01:07:09.020 | And they're so durable.

01:07:10.500 | Like it's very hard to kill a wolverine.

01:07:12.460 | - Yeah, and there's videos of like cats,

01:07:14.660 | like not actual cats, like domestic cats

01:07:17.380 | or domestic dogs starting shit with much larger animals.

01:07:22.380 | And if they're ferocious enough, they're worse.

01:07:24.540 | - Well, pit bulls are a great example of that.

01:07:26.420 | Pit bulls are small, like real game bred pit bulls

01:07:29.060 | are like 35, 45 pounds.

01:07:31.260 | And they'll kill much larger dogs.

01:07:34.340 | - Anyway, you were on King Kong's side.

01:07:36.420 | - Yeah, so--

01:07:37.260 | - Get the shit out of your cousin.

01:07:38.100 | - I remember he said to me,

01:07:39.820 | like I thought I was in like real trouble.

01:07:41.660 | 'Cause I remember my cousin's mom was yelling at me

01:07:44.660 | and it was like, you monster, all this crazy shit.

01:07:47.540 | So my dad got me alone and he said, tell me what happened.

01:07:52.540 | And I told him, you know, we got in a fight.

01:07:57.700 | We were arguing over King Kong, Godzilla.

01:08:01.100 | And I punched him in the face.

01:08:03.260 | And he goes, did you cry?

01:08:04.700 | I go, no.

01:08:05.540 | He goes, good, don't ever cry.

01:08:08.020 | And I remember that like, whoa, okay.

01:08:12.540 | And I remember thinking, all right,

01:08:13.540 | I'm just gonna start punching people.

01:08:15.060 | (laughing)

01:08:16.380 | Because like, obviously my dad thinks it's a good idea

01:08:19.660 | if I go running around punching people

01:08:21.340 | as long as I don't cry.

01:08:22.500 | I remember certain things about, you know.

01:08:28.780 | And also like, this is again,

01:08:31.060 | like we were talking about watching Lenny Bruce

01:08:34.740 | and getting a timeline of what the world was like back then.

01:08:38.700 | This was a different world, you know.

01:08:40.780 | In 1970, this would have been 1972.

01:08:44.380 | It's a different world back then, man.

01:08:46.100 | Like a really different world.

01:08:48.900 | - Is some of that, so Carl Jung talked about the shadow.

01:08:53.140 | It's the unconscious where you have dark stuff.

01:08:56.620 | And oftentimes you project the stuff

01:09:00.020 | that you're very self-critical about yourself,

01:09:02.940 | but because it's in your unconscious,

01:09:05.220 | you use it to project onto others.

01:09:07.460 | You see it as flaws in others.

01:09:09.460 | And that's a good way to, like whatever,

01:09:11.940 | I think there's a quote, like everything that irritates us

01:09:15.540 | about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.

01:09:18.700 | So that's a nice way to investigate yourself.

01:09:22.820 | Like something that pisses you off.

01:09:25.340 | You start asking questions of your own mind

01:09:27.140 | and that's how you bring it to the surface.

01:09:28.820 | But anyway, from that, those are formative years.

01:09:32.780 | - From that time, is there still stuff in your unconscious

01:09:35.540 | you think you haven't examined?

01:09:37.540 | Some dark shit?

01:09:38.780 | - I don't think so.

01:09:40.420 | I don't, I'm not aware if it is, 'cause I've looked.

01:09:43.820 | Like if someone says, I left something over your house.

01:09:50.260 | Like, where'd you leave it?

01:09:51.420 | I don't know.

01:09:52.240 | Like, all right, I'll go look.

01:09:53.820 | I'll get a real thorough looking.

01:09:55.900 | - But I'm pretty sure.

01:09:56.740 | - Pretty sure it's not there.

01:09:58.260 | Yeah, I don't know, I think I've looked.

01:10:00.660 | I mean, it certainly had an effect.

01:10:02.700 | I think the positive effect also was compounded

01:10:05.620 | by the fact that when my mother married my stepdad,

01:10:08.980 | who's a great guy, who was a hippie, very different,

01:10:13.460 | we moved around a lot.

01:10:15.140 | And so the bad thing about that was

01:10:17.780 | I didn't really develop long-term friends.

01:10:19.900 | The good thing about that was that I was forced

01:10:22.060 | to develop my own opinions about things.

01:10:24.700 | Instead of adopting an opinion of the neighborhood

01:10:27.500 | and the group about anything, I was forced

01:10:30.980 | to form my own thoughts and opinions

01:10:33.780 | about almost everything.

01:10:35.780 | And so it made me much more of an independent thinker.

01:10:39.500 | So that on top of the fact that losing my quote unquote hero

01:10:44.500 | very early on, and then having to form my own opinions

01:10:49.340 | about things, it left me with a very independent streak

01:10:55.460 | in terms of, and if I hadn't done the things

01:11:00.220 | that I got interested in, martial arts and then comedy,

01:11:03.420 | if I hadn't gotten interested in those things,

01:11:05.140 | I would have been fucked 'cause I was just too independent

01:11:09.020 | for normal jobs.

01:11:11.060 | I was too independent for school.

01:11:12.820 | I just didn't wanna listen to people.

01:11:15.260 | I was too feral.

01:11:16.660 | I just didn't wanna sit still.

01:11:20.220 | If I was with the wrong parents, especially today,

01:11:23.260 | I most certainly would have been medicated.

01:11:25.420 | - Yeah, there's so many possible trajectories

01:11:28.900 | you can imagine where you would have not been

01:11:31.020 | the person you are today.

01:11:32.260 | - Oh yeah.

01:11:33.100 | - This is probably one of the best possible.

01:11:36.260 | You're living, this particular storyline

01:11:39.300 | you're living through was one of the better ones.

01:11:41.540 | - This timeline is as good as it gets for someone like me.

01:11:43.980 | (laughing)

01:11:45.860 | - Is there advice you can give to people,

01:11:48.300 | to young kids that are living through a shitty situation

01:11:52.100 | of any sort, a tough life?

01:11:54.420 | - Find a thing you like.

01:11:56.460 | Try to find a thing that you really enjoy.

01:11:58.300 | Try to find a thing that you're passionate about.

01:11:59.900 | - Like an activity.

01:12:00.740 | - Yes, for me early on, it was drawing.

01:12:02.780 | It was illustrations.

01:12:04.100 | It was comic books.

01:12:05.300 | I wanted to be a comic book illustrator.

01:12:07.420 | And then it went from comic book drawing and illustrations

01:12:11.740 | to martial arts.

01:12:14.420 | So, but it was just another thing

01:12:16.660 | that I was very, very passionate about.

01:12:20.380 | And that was my vehicle out of my dilemma.

01:12:25.340 | That was my vehicle out of my own anxiety and trauma

01:12:29.500 | and my own issues and insecurities.

01:12:33.260 | And find something, find a thing that you genuinely enjoy

01:12:38.020 | because getting good at things you genuinely enjoy

01:12:42.420 | is extremely beneficial for young people

01:12:45.880 | because it lets you know that,

01:12:48.300 | like everybody thinks they're a loser.

01:12:50.580 | Every young person thinks they're a loser.

01:12:52.180 | At least a young person in the situation I was at.

01:12:54.860 | Like I didn't know I wasn't a loser

01:12:56.860 | until I started winning,

01:12:58.420 | till I started doing martial arts.

01:13:00.100 | Martial arts taught me that like I could get better at stuff

01:13:03.660 | that it wasn't, I wasn't really a loser.

01:13:06.660 | I just was someone who was like in a fucked up situation

01:13:09.940 | but you could channel all that energy

01:13:11.940 | that you have as a young person into something

01:13:14.580 | and get better at it.

01:13:15.580 | And then all of a sudden people admired me.

01:13:17.700 | I was like, this is crazy.

01:13:18.660 | So I went from being someone who was incredibly insecure

01:13:23.660 | and basically a failure to someone who was really successful

01:13:27.860 | at this one thing that was very dangerous

01:13:30.120 | that other people were scared of.

01:13:31.940 | And that gave me immense confidence

01:13:35.020 | and also a real understanding of the direct correlation

01:13:39.500 | between hard work and success.

01:13:41.940 | - And a kind of understanding that you're not a loser.

01:13:44.620 | - Right.

01:13:45.460 | - That there is some diamond in the rough.

01:13:47.940 | - Yeah, and also an understanding

01:13:49.060 | that you can't listen to people.

01:13:50.380 | 'Cause even my parents didn't want me to do martial arts.

01:13:53.060 | They didn't want me to fight.

01:13:54.340 | They didn't want me to do standup.

01:13:55.860 | There's like, you have to understand like who you are

01:14:00.140 | and then in the face of other people's either criticism

01:14:05.140 | or lack of faith in your ability to succeed,

01:14:10.420 | you push through and there's great benefit in that.

01:14:15.100 | And then you realize that you can kind of apply that

01:14:17.580 | to other things in life.

01:14:18.940 | You can apply that to critics.

01:14:20.340 | You can apply that to social media commentators.

01:14:23.180 | You can apply that to a lot of things.

01:14:25.580 | - Okay, what about young people in their fifties?

01:14:30.500 | Can you give advice to, like, imagine you're sitting back,

01:14:34.460 | probably still here in Texas in your nineties,

01:14:37.140 | looking back, what advice would that guy give to you today?

01:14:41.380 | Or like people that have done some shit in their fifties,

01:14:46.380 | you've gone through a hell of a life.

01:14:50.780 | There's potentially some incentive to settle down.

01:14:54.740 | You got a great family to relax,

01:14:57.160 | but maybe there's some incentive to still do epic shit.

01:15:01.500 | Still be David Goggins running in the middle of the desert

01:15:04.100 | screaming shit into a camera.

01:15:05.660 | - If you're David Goggins, you have to be David Goggins.

01:15:09.180 | I don't think there's a path for that guy

01:15:11.900 | that exists at this stage of his life other than that.

01:15:15.180 | - Do you think he'll be 70 and still screaming?

01:15:17.460 | - Yes.

01:15:18.900 | A hundred percent.

01:15:20.860 | A hundred percent.

01:15:21.700 | If David and I are alive, we're both 70,

01:15:26.540 | he's going to call me up and say,

01:15:27.940 | "Stay hard, motherfucker!"

01:15:30.100 | Guaranteed.

01:15:31.300 | Guaranteed.

01:15:32.320 | - So lean into whatever the fuck you are at this point.

01:15:35.060 | - Well, if you're enjoying it,

01:15:36.620 | but if you're not enjoying it, rethink your life.

01:15:39.160 | Try to figure out why you're not enjoying it.

01:15:41.580 | - You still think it's possible

01:15:43.040 | to shift things in your 50s?

01:15:44.700 | - Yeah.

01:15:45.520 | If you're alive, you can get better.

01:15:47.700 | - No matter what.

01:15:48.680 | - Yeah, no matter what.

01:15:49.520 | If you're alive, you can shift things.

01:15:51.660 | I mean, if you're 90 years old

01:15:52.940 | and you have a month to live,

01:15:54.780 | you can apologize for the things you think you did wrong

01:15:57.420 | and maybe sort of reconcile and shape relationships

01:16:01.940 | that you have with the people that are around you better

01:16:03.820 | so that they feel differently about you after you're gone.

01:16:07.180 | - Yeah, I always loved people in their 70s

01:16:09.500 | who are getting back into dating or something like that.

01:16:12.460 | - Yeah!

01:16:13.460 | I was watching a video about a woman who's in her 60s

01:16:15.740 | who just started powerlifting.

01:16:17.600 | - Nice.

01:16:18.440 | - Yeah.

01:16:19.280 | - And same with jiu-jitsu.

01:16:20.100 | You see people get into jiu-jitsu.

01:16:21.380 | - Mm-hmm, yeah.

01:16:22.220 | - Like a white belt that's like 70.

01:16:24.940 | - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:16:27.100 | There's a lot of, if you're alive,

01:16:30.540 | you can get better at stuff.

01:16:32.420 | And I don't think people are happy

01:16:35.700 | if they don't have puzzles and complex tasks

01:16:40.220 | and things that are interesting to them,

01:16:41.980 | whether it's an art project

01:16:43.620 | or whether it's learning something completely new

01:16:46.060 | like stand-up comedy.

01:16:47.380 | Like doing things that are difficult,

01:16:49.900 | it's as much of a nourishment of the mind

01:16:55.540 | as food is a nourishment of the body.

01:16:58.980 | I think you need things that are puzzling to you

01:17:03.900 | where you have to find your own human potential

01:17:08.780 | in the difficulty of the task

01:17:11.180 | and work your way through things, at least for me.

01:17:15.100 | For me, I mean, I can only speak for me

01:17:17.020 | 'cause I'm the only life that I've ever lived

01:17:19.260 | that I'm aware of.

01:17:20.260 | And in my life, that has been 100% constant.

01:17:26.380 | I am a very happy person

01:17:28.300 | and I have never had a moment

01:17:29.540 | where I'm not doing difficult shit ever.

01:17:32.700 | - What matters most is how well you walk through the fires.

01:17:37.100 | You just keep starting fires for yourself to walk through.

01:17:39.620 | - Well, they don't necessarily have to be fires, right?

01:17:42.820 | Because fires are like kind of out of control.

01:17:45.620 | - Lukewarm. - Tasks.

01:17:47.740 | - The surfaces. - Tasks.

01:17:49.100 | Give yourself something, an arduous, difficult task

01:17:53.300 | where you're challenged,

01:17:55.140 | challenged mentally and challenged physically.

01:17:57.700 | One of the great things about being challenged physically

01:17:59.820 | is it's also mental.

01:18:01.340 | The people that don't understand that

01:18:02.980 | have never really been challenged physically.

01:18:04.940 | People that think that physical challenges

01:18:06.660 | are just like, just physical,

01:18:09.020 | it's just brute grunt work, it's not.

01:18:12.620 | It's emotional intelligence.

01:18:15.340 | It's understanding your desire to quit

01:18:19.060 | and conquering your inner bitch.

01:18:21.620 | All that stuff is, it's mental.

01:18:24.300 | It's playing out inside your head.

01:18:26.380 | And there's a mental strength that you acquire from that

01:18:29.540 | that you can apply to intellectual pursuits.

01:18:32.580 | And the people that don't think that

01:18:36.020 | are the people that haven't attempted them.

01:18:38.900 | And there's an arrogance to people

01:18:41.460 | that only pursue intellectual exercises,

01:18:45.780 | only pursue intellectual things,

01:18:47.660 | and don't pursue anything physical.

01:18:49.500 | That the physical stuff is base, it's grunt work,

01:18:51.780 | it's primal, it's not necessary.

01:18:54.180 | I don't think that's accurate.

01:18:56.300 | I don't think that they're,

01:18:57.500 | I mean, obviously there's people like Stephen Hawking

01:18:59.580 | who have no opportunity to do anything physical, right?

01:19:03.940 | His physical dilemma is keeping us,

01:19:05.620 | or was keeping his heart beating.

01:19:08.140 | But for most people,

01:19:09.820 | I think you can really benefit from physical struggle

01:19:13.380 | and you benefit from it in a mental way.

01:19:16.540 | And I think that is overlooked.

01:19:18.900 | That's unfortunately overlooked by academics

01:19:21.700 | and intellectuals who,

01:19:24.420 | they make excuses for why they're fat and lazy or scrawny.

01:19:27.980 | - Well, they don't need to be,

01:19:30.060 | it's not even about the fat or all of that.

01:19:32.860 | It's like literally,

01:19:34.180 | there's something about the physical challenge

01:19:36.460 | that's really good for you,

01:19:37.300 | especially if you're academic,

01:19:38.580 | especially if you do intellectual types though.

01:19:41.140 | There's this great roboticist at MIT, Russ Tedrick.

01:19:43.860 | He runs barefoot to and from MIT every day.

01:19:47.420 | - I love it.

01:19:49.060 | - Like seven to 10 miles each way.

01:19:51.540 | - Barefoot?

01:19:52.380 | - Barefoot.

01:19:53.220 | Well, he studies legged locomotion, legged robots.

01:19:56.220 | So for him, it's also interesting

01:19:57.940 | how the human body moves.

01:20:00.460 | He sees the beauty in all movement.

01:20:02.780 | - What do his feet look like?

01:20:04.620 | - You know, calloused.

01:20:05.820 | - Destroyed, right?

01:20:06.940 | - No, just calloused.

01:20:08.300 | They're nice.

01:20:09.140 | They form a nice,

01:20:10.940 | it's not like I gave him a foot massage,

01:20:13.220 | but I mean, they look,

01:20:15.740 | and I don't have a foot fetish,

01:20:16.980 | so I'm not able to correctly evaluate

01:20:21.300 | another man's feet.

01:20:22.380 | I apologize for this,

01:20:23.540 | but they don't look fucked up.

01:20:25.700 | - Does he run on concrete?

01:20:27.780 | - Yeah, he runs all surfaces.

01:20:30.020 | - And he does everything completely barefoot?

01:20:32.860 | - The running part at work.

01:20:34.940 | So one of the things he has to do is fit into society,

01:20:37.860 | which means he has to change clothes and appear normal.

01:20:40.300 | - Right.

01:20:41.140 | So does he wear like zero shoes?

01:20:43.780 | You know, those barefoot type shoes?

01:20:46.260 | - No, because that's like very hippie, wokey type of thing.

01:20:50.300 | No, like he's barefoot when he's running,

01:20:53.460 | and then he wears like normal looking stuff,

01:20:56.180 | like dress shoes.

01:20:57.020 | - How did he work his way up to running barefoot?

01:20:59.300 | - So he was significantly overweight.

01:21:02.940 | And his advisor, this other famous person at MIT

01:21:07.660 | who was a roboticist, took his own life.

01:21:10.620 | And that made him,

01:21:13.100 | that made Russ face his own mortality, I think.

01:21:16.380 | I mean, you start to ask big questions

01:21:18.940 | about your wellbeing, like,

01:21:20.460 | holy shit, this ride can end at any moment.

01:21:22.700 | And so he started taking his

01:21:24.780 | sort of physical wellbeing seriously.

01:21:27.220 | But as a result of that, not that he become like shredded,

01:21:31.800 | but he's also discovered the intellectual value,

01:21:36.300 | the humbling value of physical exercise.

01:21:41.540 | So he's not preachy about it at all.

01:21:42.940 | I don't think, I actually rarely hear him

01:21:45.300 | advise it to anyone.

01:21:46.460 | He just does it as a,

01:21:49.340 | almost like meditation or something like that.

01:21:51.300 | - It's definitely a form of meditation,

01:21:53.460 | and you can attest to that, right?

01:21:54.620 | You do quite a bit of running.

01:21:56.300 | There's a thing about a (exhaling)

01:21:59.380 | it kind of, almost like a mantra gets formed,

01:22:03.380 | and you get into it.

01:22:04.620 | - You know what's great here in the Austin heat,

01:22:06.220 | 100 degree weather, that tests you.

01:22:09.220 | - You know what I love to do outside?

01:22:10.780 | Pull sleds.

01:22:12.260 | That's my thing.

01:22:13.780 | I love to pull sleds outside.

01:22:15.620 | - In the heat.

01:22:16.460 | - Yeah, I did today.

01:22:17.940 | - Yeah. (laughing)

01:22:18.780 | - Yeah, I love it.

01:22:19.900 | - So you're also, your wife is incredible.

01:22:22.180 | You're in a relationship.

01:22:23.940 | You're married, you have a great family.

01:22:26.060 | What advice would you give to me and to others like me

01:22:29.460 | who are dumb fucks and have not found a relationship?

01:22:32.620 | - Well, you're a great guy,

01:22:34.060 | so this definitely doesn't necessarily apply to you,

01:22:37.340 | but be someone who someone would wanna be

01:22:40.220 | in a relationship with.

01:22:41.780 | There's a lot of people out there that want a great partner.

01:22:44.340 | They want someone in a relationship,

01:22:46.180 | but why would someone wanna be in a relationship with you?

01:22:49.620 | Maybe you bicker a lot, maybe you're jealous,

01:22:52.700 | maybe you lie, maybe you're cruel,

01:22:57.700 | maybe you don't have a sense of humor,

01:23:02.760 | maybe you're not kind.

01:23:05.100 | Like, what is it about you that people would not enjoy

01:23:10.100 | being around or that people avoid?

01:23:12.380 | Fix that.

01:23:13.580 | - Well, this applies to me as well.

01:23:15.820 | Like you said something with Cam Haines.

01:23:18.260 | One of the things you admire is the discipline it takes

01:23:21.060 | to sort of juggle so many things and do it successfully.

01:23:24.380 | I'm not sure I'm very good at that.

01:23:26.460 | - So juggling all this hard work

01:23:28.260 | and then also a relationship.

01:23:29.700 | - Also a relationship, also family,

01:23:31.220 | all those kinds of priorities.

01:23:32.700 | I mean, that requires having your shit together.

01:23:35.300 | - It does, it's a different thing.

01:23:37.120 | But it's also, you gotta find the right person.

01:23:39.300 | There's a lot of people who settle for sexy.

01:23:43.100 | They settle for hot.

01:23:44.140 | - Oh, for, okay, yeah.

01:23:44.980 | - They settle for the wrong person.

01:23:46.100 | Like, you can get hot and nice.

01:23:48.500 | They're out there.

01:23:49.900 | But don't get hot and mean.

01:23:51.940 | Hot and mean's not fun.

01:23:53.300 | Then you get Amber Heard.

01:23:54.540 | - Yeah, and then you end up in a trial.

01:23:56.620 | - Yeah, yeah.

01:23:58.000 | You can be deceived by perfect symmetry.

01:24:01.660 | - So you don't think it's a good idea

01:24:03.060 | to record your partner?

01:24:04.700 | - I think you should record all conversations.

01:24:07.100 | The CIA's doing it no matter what.

01:24:09.220 | I assume that every conversation I have is recorded,

01:24:11.620 | 'cause I'm pretty sure it is.

01:24:13.120 | (laughing)

01:24:14.100 | - Even when we had dinner with Alex Jones,

01:24:15.740 | he was recording.

01:24:16.580 | - Yeah.

01:24:17.420 | - I still remember that.

01:24:18.240 | (laughing)

01:24:19.340 | - Oh, I didn't know that was recording.

01:24:21.260 | - He might, you know what would be funny?

01:24:23.260 | If he is the CIA plan.

01:24:24.900 | - He could be, could be.

01:24:26.940 | - That'd be the ultimate joke.

01:24:27.780 | - But that's my advice about relationships,

01:24:30.100 | is be somebody.

01:24:31.880 | And then also, find someone who you can grow with.

01:24:36.880 | You don't wanna be with someone

01:24:39.940 | that doesn't share your value.

01:24:43.580 | You don't wanna be with someone who makes excuses.

01:24:46.020 | You don't wanna be with someone who's lazy,

01:24:48.180 | or who's spiteful.

01:24:49.900 | You wanna be with someone who's genuinely kind.

01:24:53.320 | That's one of the things that I really love about my wife,

01:24:55.500 | and she's very smart, and she works hard.

01:24:57.900 | She's a dedicated, disciplined person.

01:25:01.060 | But she's also really nice.

01:25:02.600 | That's one of the things I like the most about her.

01:25:04.880 | She's so nice.

01:25:06.020 | She's always smiling.

01:25:09.100 | - And that energy is great.

01:25:10.940 | - Yeah, I mean, you've seen us together.

01:25:12.540 | You've hung around with us.

01:25:13.540 | She's fun.

01:25:14.740 | - Yeah, she's great. - She's a lot of fun.

01:25:16.000 | - Yeah, she makes you just feel great to be alive.

01:25:18.780 | It's good to have people like that around you.

01:25:20.140 | - She's happy.

01:25:21.260 | She's a happy person.

01:25:22.420 | She's happy to be around.

01:25:23.660 | That's the kind of people that you could have in your life

01:25:25.540 | as friends, and as coworkers, and as lovers,

01:25:29.640 | and wives, and husbands.

01:25:30.720 | You can find those people.

01:25:32.140 | They're real.

01:25:32.980 | And when you find those people, your life is better.

01:25:35.500 | Like, to have a good tribe is very important.

01:25:39.140 | To have a good tribe of people, you know?

01:25:41.220 | And I think if there's anything

01:25:42.380 | that I'm very, very fortunate about,

01:25:44.420 | it's the people that I'm around.

01:25:46.980 | I have very good friends, and one of which is you.

01:25:49.960 | It's so valuable to have quality people around you

01:25:55.100 | because it makes you want to do better

01:25:58.060 | because you admire the hard work that these people put in,

01:26:01.460 | like my Kam Haines, or Goggins, or many of my friends.

01:26:05.260 | And people that are generous, and people that are curious,

01:26:09.700 | and people that are honest, they inspire you to do the same.

01:26:13.980 | And it's extremely valuable.

01:26:16.100 | It's one of the most valuable things

01:26:18.700 | is to surround yourself with positive, healthy,

01:26:22.980 | friendly, generous people.

01:26:25.700 | - That's why I cut out Tim Dillon for my life.

01:26:28.020 | I broke up with him.

01:26:28.860 | - I thought you guys were getting married.

01:26:29.860 | - No, it's over.

01:26:31.180 | It's none of those things.

01:26:32.220 | The Texas nonstop, the nonstop conspiracy theories,

01:26:36.280 | the nonstop mocking of my Eastern European origins.

01:26:41.860 | It's just not healthy for me.

01:26:45.580 | Plus, he's physically abusive and a towering figure.

01:26:49.380 | Both emotionally. - He's a big boy.

01:26:50.940 | - Physically.

01:26:52.500 | No, no, I love him.

01:26:53.460 | Okay. - If he worked out,

01:26:54.300 | he would be a house.

01:26:55.380 | He's got such a large frame, you know?

01:26:59.260 | - So if I interview Putin,

01:27:01.940 | what should I ask him?

01:27:03.340 | - How's the cancer?

01:27:04.900 | How's it doing, buddy?

01:27:06.060 | (laughing)

01:27:07.700 | That's question number one in Russian.

01:27:10.100 | Do you think he has cancer?

01:27:12.180 | - I don't think so.

01:27:13.620 | - The narrative is terrifying, right?

01:27:15.980 | Dictator of the largest nuclear arsenal in the world

01:27:19.020 | who also has cancer and just invaded a sovereign country.

01:27:22.780 | That's a terrifying narrative.

01:27:24.140 | 'Cause that's what we're all afraid of.

01:27:25.180 | Someone who has nothing to lose,

01:27:26.740 | who just decides to let loose a nuke.

01:27:29.780 | - Well, I do think, maybe it's projecting,

01:27:32.140 | but if I had cancer,

01:27:34.660 | or if you think about leaders that have cancer,

01:27:36.660 | you're facing your own mortality,

01:27:38.700 | I would think he would be more focused on his legacy.

01:27:42.340 | And dropping a nuclear bomb is not good for legacy.

01:27:46.340 | I do believe he wants to be remembered as a great leader,

01:27:49.380 | as a lot of leaders do, as a lot of even dictators do.

01:27:52.620 | And I think he wants to figure out a way

01:27:57.460 | to pull out a win so he can say that

01:28:01.860 | whatever this thing was, whatever this invasion was,

01:28:05.420 | was good for Russia, was good for the nation.

01:28:08.260 | He ultimately made it a greater nation than it was before.

01:28:11.540 | And perhaps he could justify

01:28:13.500 | an escalation of war to be that.

01:28:15.380 | But I don't, and it's just the cancer thing

01:28:19.900 | concerns me so much because it's been so often

01:28:23.620 | part of this propaganda that's been told about Putin,

01:28:26.420 | he's sick, I don't know why.

01:28:28.260 | It's always, people kind of wonder that a lot about,

01:28:31.860 | especially dictators, but you had that even like

01:28:34.380 | with Hillary Clinton and obviously with Biden,

01:28:36.660 | that narrative is stickier.

01:28:39.940 | So for some people it's stickier.

01:28:40.780 | - Well, that narrative is transparent and obvious.

01:28:44.180 | - But the degree of it is a question with Biden,

01:28:46.260 | as it is with everyone.

01:28:48.500 | Like what's, you know, how healthy is this leader?

01:28:50.780 | That's a question people often ask.

01:28:52.380 | - Always, they were doing that about Trump too.

01:28:55.460 | The thing about Putin though is like his appearance

01:28:59.340 | is altered where he looks very bloated.

01:29:02.660 | His body doesn't look much bigger,

01:29:04.420 | but his face looks like puffy and swollen.

01:29:07.380 | I had a friend who had sarcoidosis

01:29:10.660 | and they prescribed prednisone,

01:29:14.580 | which is a type of a steroid.

01:29:16.220 | And one of the things that would happen when he was on it

01:29:18.260 | is his face would get really big.

01:29:21.820 | It was like, he would blow up, like a swell up

01:29:25.780 | and maintain a lot of water and inflammation.

01:29:29.860 | And that's what it looks like when I'm looking at Putin.

01:29:32.900 | - So actually like if you're sitting with him,

01:29:34.740 | one question is about health.

01:29:36.900 | That's, has Biden been asked that kind of question?

01:29:41.020 | No, like without mockery, without any of that.

01:29:42.700 | - He would have to go on Fox News.

01:29:44.220 | Like the mainstream media treats him with kid gloves

01:29:46.740 | in a way that I've never seen.

01:29:49.340 | I mean, it's so obvious there's something horribly wrong

01:29:53.620 | with his cognitive function.

01:29:55.660 | - Well, to push back, I don't know if it's horribly wrong.

01:29:59.340 | - You don't think it's horribly wrong?

01:30:00.420 | - I think it's, no, I think there's uncertainty

01:30:02.340 | to which degree it's wrong.

01:30:04.980 | I would love to there to be a serious like conversation

01:30:08.100 | about it with him.

01:30:09.700 | In fact, I actually have to now look,

01:30:11.820 | 'cause of course Fox News will mock

01:30:14.460 | his like declining mental health.

01:30:19.060 | And then I would love like sort of an objective discussion.

01:30:22.700 | Are you aware of this?

01:30:24.020 | Are you, like, what are you putting in place?

01:30:27.140 | Are you yourself, 'cause if I was a person

01:30:29.980 | with declining mental abilities,

01:30:32.660 | like you have to start, you have to start thinking

01:30:36.540 | about that kind of stuff.

01:30:37.360 | Like who is around you?

01:30:38.820 | Who are the advisors?

01:30:40.380 | What if you start, stop being able to see the world clearly?

01:30:43.500 | - Yeah.

01:30:44.340 | - I would be transparent about that kind of stuff.

01:30:46.460 | - Well, you would be, but you're also,

01:30:48.260 | you would never be a politician.

01:30:49.580 | - Yeah.

01:30:50.420 | - 'Cause you're too fucking honest.

01:30:51.940 | - Well, yeah, but actually from a conversation perspective,

01:30:55.020 | it would be nice if that kind of discussion was had.

01:30:57.140 | - It would be, but all jokes aside, with Putin,

01:31:00.060 | I would ask questions about democracy versus what they have.

01:31:06.780 | I mean, without any disparaging descriptions

01:31:13.500 | of what is going on over in Russia.

01:31:16.820 | It's clearly not a democracy.

01:31:18.540 | I mean, the way he has it set up, the elections are a joke.

01:31:26.360 | - So he would push back, that's not clearly not a democracy.

01:31:29.900 | He is still very popular.

01:31:31.060 | So majority of people are huge supporters

01:31:33.460 | of Putin inside Russia.

01:31:34.680 | The people that push back against that would say

01:31:38.420 | that that's because any serious opposition

01:31:41.740 | is pushed out of the country.

01:31:43.100 | - Yeah.

01:31:43.940 | - So I guess competition. - Arrested and murdered.

01:31:45.620 | - Yeah.

01:31:46.460 | - But yes, that's a really, really good question.

01:31:49.020 | - The value of dictatorships.

01:31:50.820 | One of the things about the United States

01:31:53.260 | that's fascinating to me is that every four years,

01:31:57.740 | unless it's four to eight years, right?

01:32:00.700 | Someone does two terms, but every four years,

01:32:03.560 | there's an opportunity for someone to be new

01:32:06.300 | and completely inexperienced

01:32:07.900 | at the most difficult job in the world,

01:32:09.860 | which is ridiculous.

01:32:12.220 | - So the interesting thing is,

01:32:15.380 | it actually makes sense after eight years,

01:32:17.780 | you've gained the wisdom.

01:32:19.380 | You would actually be a pretty good leader to keep going.

01:32:22.180 | But there is some problem where the power

01:32:24.780 | starts getting to your head.

01:32:26.620 | And so from Putin's perspective,

01:32:29.180 | I think he genuinely wants the best for Russia.

01:32:32.020 | I don't think he's lost his mind

01:32:34.740 | in terms of it's all about greed and so on.

01:32:37.300 | Same as Stalin.

01:32:38.180 | I think Stalin, until the end of his days,

01:32:40.860 | wanted the best for the Soviet Union.

01:32:43.300 | So it's not like you become,

01:32:44.620 | Hitler, I think, lost his mind during the war,

01:32:47.140 | like where it was like he wasn't seen clearly at all.

01:32:50.020 | What Putin believes is that he is actually the best person

01:32:54.020 | to bring out the best for his country.

01:32:57.360 | Now, the problem is maybe refreshing the leader

01:33:02.060 | is in fact in the long term, the best thing,

01:33:04.340 | versus every leader believes they know

01:33:06.260 | what's best for the country.

01:33:07.700 | The point is to keep refreshing it.

01:33:09.740 | - Well--

01:33:10.580 | - And that's the case for democracy.

01:33:11.940 | That's the case for the system we have

01:33:14.100 | that creates natural, maybe emergent balance of power.

01:33:19.100 | - I think it makes it evident

01:33:21.060 | that there is no clear cut, real right way to do it.

01:33:24.340 | And that if you had the perfect person in,

01:33:26.980 | having them for 12, 20 years would be amazing.

01:33:30.660 | If you had a perfect, benevolent leader

01:33:34.060 | who clearly only cared about the people,

01:33:36.140 | was doing their best and striving hard

01:33:38.580 | and got great satisfaction knowing

01:33:40.900 | that he is a dedicated civil servant

01:33:43.980 | that only wants to lead the country

01:33:46.940 | in a way that's gonna benefit the most people

01:33:49.540 | in the most profound way.

01:33:51.220 | But we have a dirty political system

01:33:56.300 | that's completely corrupted by money,

01:33:58.180 | completely corrupted by influence.

01:34:00.120 | The fact that the lobbyists,

01:34:05.100 | I mean, there's an area outside of Washington, DC,

01:34:07.860 | it's one of the richest areas in the country

01:34:09.700 | and it's where the lobbyists live.

01:34:11.420 | There's so much money involved in being a lobbyist.

01:34:14.180 | There's so much money involved in special interest groups

01:34:17.880 | and how much of an impact they have on who gets elected

01:34:22.880 | and what decisions get made once that person gets elected.

01:34:26.080 | We know this, right?

01:34:27.340 | We know it's not for the people by the people.

01:34:29.560 | It's just not what it is.

01:34:30.920 | I mean, this country is an experiment in self-government.

01:34:33.680 | And if we could do it all over again,

01:34:36.940 | I would say the most important thing

01:34:39.180 | is to have laws in place to keep money out of politics

01:34:42.900 | and to make it a heinous crime

01:34:46.020 | for someone to influence laws and policy

01:34:50.520 | based entirely on the amount of profit

01:34:56.260 | it could generate for a party or for a company

01:35:01.260 | that is investing in a candidate.

01:35:04.500 | That's fucking incredibly dangerous and it's corrupt.

01:35:07.460 | And that corruption has been accepted.

01:35:09.340 | We've just accepted that this corruption exists.

01:35:12.640 | - Last question.

01:35:15.140 | If Putin asks to see this watch, what do I tell him?

01:35:18.460 | Would you give it?

01:35:20.100 | Should I let him see it?

01:35:21.740 | 'Cause we know what happens with a Super Bowl ring.

01:35:23.980 | - I think a Super Bowl ring is unique.

01:35:26.700 | He could buy a watch like that pretty easy.

01:35:29.500 | - But this particular, isn't that a power move?

01:35:33.260 | - Yeah, but I'm-- - So this is the watch

01:35:34.620 | you gave me. - Yeah, yes.

01:35:35.460 | - There's a story. - Yes.

01:35:37.420 | - I would probably share it with him, the story.

01:35:40.940 | - And then maybe he'd go, "Can I see this watch?"

01:35:43.060 | - Yeah. - And then he puts it on.

01:35:44.620 | - Say no. - Thank you.

01:35:45.460 | - Do you say no?

01:35:46.300 | - You go like this, "Yeah, there it is, bro."

01:35:49.220 | (laughing)

01:35:50.140 | - Bro. - You know, take it off.

01:35:51.300 | - So many words I'm gonna have to find translations.

01:35:53.180 | Buddy, bro. (laughing)

01:35:55.780 | I guess bros, brother.

01:35:56.660 | - I mean, if he takes your watch, I'll buy you another one.

01:35:58.820 | If Putin steals it. (laughing)

01:36:00.580 | - Keep him going.

01:36:02.100 | - I'll just give you the same exact watch.

01:36:05.140 | - Well, first of all, thank you for this.

01:36:06.620 | - My pleasure, bro. - And I really wanted

01:36:08.940 | to talk to you 'cause in a couple of days,

01:36:11.900 | I'm leaving to Ukraine and Russia,

01:36:14.580 | and I hope I'll be back in one piece

01:36:18.900 | and drink whiskey with you once again.

01:36:21.420 | - Yeah, I hope so too.

01:36:22.460 | I'm nervous about you going over there.

01:36:24.700 | I know journalists have been killed now.

01:36:26.700 | - But they don't know jujitsu.

01:36:29.900 | No, I think you'll be okay,

01:36:33.540 | and I think there's certain things you do in life

01:36:35.500 | that just kind of your heart pulls towards that so much.

01:36:38.500 | - What's your objective over there?

01:36:40.700 | - I'm not somebody who thinks about objectives clearly.

01:36:43.740 | It's just something about me says I need to go there.

01:36:47.380 | But to put in loose words is to try to understand

01:36:52.380 | what that world is now.

01:36:56.420 | So I remember what it was years ago when I was there.

01:37:00.300 | I know my family.

01:37:02.100 | I know the generations of family that was there

01:37:04.820 | on that land in Ukraine and in Russia,

01:37:07.620 | and the soul of the people, the love that's there,

01:37:12.060 | the beauty of the culture,

01:37:13.700 | and I wanna see what it is today

01:37:15.660 | and what this war has created,

01:37:18.060 | both the anger and the love in the people,

01:37:20.340 | and just hear them out and just talk to them.

01:37:22.340 | No recordings, none of that.

01:37:24.060 | Maybe a little here and there, but mostly just for me.

01:37:28.180 | I don't know, sometimes it's just something pulls you

01:37:31.700 | to a place, and I also,

01:37:35.860 | because I'm able to speak Russian and some Ukrainian,

01:37:39.180 | I do want to try to have these,

01:37:42.100 | a couple of the political leaders involved, talk to them.

01:37:45.420 | And I have all the right connections.

01:37:46.860 | Everybody has said yes.

01:37:49.220 | Of course, you don't know the likelihood it finally happens,

01:37:51.620 | but I wanna at least have that possibility there.

01:37:54.540 | Sometimes you have to go to a place to really understand it.

01:37:57.340 | You can't just read about it.

01:37:58.380 | You can't just talk to the people that are living there.

01:38:00.540 | You have to be there.

01:38:02.340 | And I've never been in a war zone.

01:38:05.060 | I've never been in a land that's been damaged

01:38:09.820 | and wiped by the weapons of war,

01:38:15.460 | and I just want to feel that,

01:38:17.260 | because so much of that land is,

01:38:19.300 | I remember when everything was flourishing.

01:38:23.420 | Yes, corruption, all those kinds of things,

01:38:26.120 | but people were there, and the culture was flourishing,

01:38:29.540 | and people were happy.

01:38:30.380 | There was lots of struggle, but they were happy.

01:38:32.380 | And now people are extremely angry.

01:38:34.780 | There's hate in the air on all sides.

01:38:36.660 | I wanna see that.

01:38:38.620 | I wanna understand.

01:38:39.460 | Sometimes it just pulls you, and you have to go.

01:38:41.980 | So it doesn't make any sense, perhaps,

01:38:44.700 | but you just gotta do it.

01:38:45.820 | - What's the timeline?

01:38:47.620 | - Of when I'm going?

01:38:48.620 | - How long?

01:38:49.780 | - No, one way.

01:38:51.220 | I don't have a plan. - Really?

01:38:52.900 | Wow.

01:38:53.860 | - Yeah, so I'm hoping back in a month.

01:38:57.700 | But also, just to clarify,

01:39:02.920 | I'm not somebody who seeks risk.

01:39:05.080 | You're somebody who seems to be terrified

01:39:09.840 | of bears and sharks, so you don't.

01:39:12.000 | (laughs)

01:39:13.720 | So why go surfing?

01:39:15.520 | Why go swimming in the ocean?

01:39:16.960 | So I'm somebody that's the same, probably with sharks too.

01:39:20.160 | I'm not taking unnecessary risk,

01:39:22.680 | but certain things that just mean a lot to you,

01:39:24.920 | you take the risk.

01:39:26.000 | And so a little bit of risk,

01:39:28.400 | willing to take to discover something about myself,

01:39:33.360 | honestly, is probably what it all boils down to,

01:39:36.800 | try to understand myself,

01:39:37.880 | 'cause so much of me is from that place.

01:39:41.240 | Well, this is the beautiful thing about America,

01:39:43.880 | is it's like stitches together all these different cultures.

01:39:47.440 | Everybody came from somewhere else.

01:39:49.480 | And you try to understand,

01:39:51.280 | in order for me to be a good American,

01:39:54.240 | I need to understand who I was, where I came from.

01:39:59.000 | And that's, nothing reveals the spirit of a people

01:40:04.000 | better than war.

01:40:05.680 | It's like there's something about this conflict

01:40:10.000 | that really cuts all the bullshit.

01:40:13.680 | This is who we are.

01:40:14.960 | This is who we are as a people.

01:40:16.760 | So I wanna see it, I wanna understand.

01:40:19.320 | And like I said, wanna come back,

01:40:21.320 | drink some whiskey with you.

01:40:23.760 | - All right, well, I hope that happens.

01:40:26.080 | I really do.

01:40:26.920 | And I hope you're safe over there.

01:40:28.360 | And I hope you come back with whatever insight

01:40:30.600 | you're trying to achieve.

01:40:34.120 | - Thank you for doing this conversation.

01:40:35.280 | - My pleasure, brother.

01:40:36.120 | - Thank you for everything you've done for me,

01:40:37.840 | for the support, for the love, and everybody around you.

01:40:41.080 | Thank you for everything you're doing,

01:40:42.120 | for everybody around you, for giving back,

01:40:46.100 | but for just giving and being kind to everybody.

01:40:48.480 | I love you, brother.

01:40:49.320 | - I love you too, thank you.

01:40:51.480 | - Thanks for listening to this conversation with Joe Rogan.

01:40:53.960 | To support this podcast,

01:40:55.120 | please check out our sponsors in the description.

01:40:57.720 | And now let me leave you with one of Joe's

01:41:00.440 | and one of my favorite quotes from Miyamoto Musashi.

01:41:04.240 | "Once you know the way broadly,

01:41:06.360 | "you will see it in everything."

01:41:09.300 | Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.

01:41:12.320 | (upbeat music)

01:41:14.900 | (upbeat music)

01:41:17.480 | [BLANK_AUDIO]

Joe Rogan: Comedy, Controversy, Aliens, UFOs, Putin, CIA, and Freedom | Lex Fridman Podcast #300

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