Chris Duffin: The Mad Scientist of Strength

00:00:00.000 | The following is a conversation with Chris Duffin,

00:00:03.080 | the mad scientist of strength.

00:00:05.460 | He's one of the strongest people in the world,

00:00:08.480 | but is also an engineer of some of the most

00:00:10.920 | innovative strength equipment I've ever seen.

00:00:13.720 | Check out his company Kabuki Strength.

00:00:16.440 | He's the only person who squatted and deadlifted

00:00:19.360 | 1,000 pounds for multiple reps

00:00:21.940 | and achieved many other amazing feats of strength.

00:00:24.880 | He has lived one hell of a life of hardship and triumph

00:00:28.840 | as he writes about in his book called

00:00:31.040 | "The Ego and the Dragon."

00:00:33.480 | Quick mention of our sponsors,

00:00:35.400 | Headspace, Magic Spoon, Sun Basket, and Ladder.

00:00:39.680 | Check them out in the description to support this podcast.

00:00:42.580 | As a side note, let me say that I was always

00:00:45.840 | a fan of strength, both powerlifting

00:00:48.080 | and Olympic weightlifting, both as a fan and practitioner.

00:00:53.080 | Mostly I'm a fan of people who are willing

00:00:55.520 | to put in years of hard work towards finding out

00:00:58.400 | what the limits of their body is

00:01:00.360 | and then smashing past those limits.

00:01:03.000 | People like Chris Duffin or on the Olympic weightlifting

00:01:06.600 | side, people like Dmitry Klokov.

00:01:10.100 | That guy's great.

00:01:11.480 | This is why I love watching the Olympics,

00:01:13.620 | both the heartbreaks and the triumphs.

00:01:15.860 | They all reveal the incredible heights

00:01:18.140 | that the human mind and the human body can reach.

00:01:21.880 | This is the Lex Friedman Podcast

00:01:23.960 | and here is my conversation with Chris Duffin.

00:01:28.200 | You've been a part of several incredible feats of strength.

00:01:32.120 | Which was the hardest or maybe one you're most proud of?

00:01:37.240 | - Definitely the one I'm most proud of

00:01:39.260 | is that journey for the grand goals.

00:01:42.840 | It was like a five-year scope that I chased this.

00:01:45.240 | And so when you think about training,

00:01:47.160 | it took more than five years, obviously.

00:01:49.240 | By that point, I'd been training for over 25 years.

00:01:52.940 | But it makes me proud.

00:01:54.360 | I mean, there was three distinct things

00:01:56.300 | that I wanted to accomplish out of this.

00:01:57.840 | So it was really thought out.

00:01:59.960 | And this was kind of my exit from being a competitive lifter

00:02:04.960 | and basically saying, hey, I'm gonna be an Instagram lifter

00:02:10.080 | and an exhibition lifter or whatever.

00:02:12.680 | I've done this for 16 years.

00:02:15.440 | I was number one in the world for like eight years straight,

00:02:17.640 | all-time world records.

00:02:18.720 | And I'm like, I'm not gonna do that anymore.

00:02:20.200 | What I wanna do is just something deep down to me

00:02:24.200 | that is really important.

00:02:25.440 | And there's three things that we're driving

00:02:27.820 | this and this is a five-year journey

00:02:29.680 | that I went through to do this.

00:02:31.600 | I really wanted to showcase that you could do something

00:02:36.340 | that is well beyond the scope

00:02:37.880 | of what people think is humanly possible.

00:02:39.940 | So just this inspiration thing, this grand over the top,

00:02:44.940 | like if you set your mind to a single-minded goal,

00:02:48.600 | you can go so much further.

00:02:50.640 | And I didn't even say what the goal was up front

00:02:53.040 | because it was so far out there,

00:02:54.520 | I would have been laughed at.

00:02:56.540 | I think big goals should be kept pretty damn close

00:02:59.740 | to start with for that reason too.

00:03:01.440 | And then the second piece was to walk the walk,

00:03:05.300 | to show the principles of what I believed in

00:03:08.040 | around human movement,

00:03:09.280 | the ability to manage and control the spinal mechanics

00:03:13.260 | and the output that can have on the body.

00:03:15.260 | And so I wanted to take the two most basic movements

00:03:17.780 | that every able-bodied person should be able to do.

00:03:20.540 | So fundamental movement patterns, the squat,

00:03:23.360 | which is like in the developmental approach

00:03:26.140 | is around nine months as a baby

00:03:27.620 | from a developmental kinesiology standpoint

00:03:30.620 | and a really basic pattern

00:03:32.940 | that every able-bodied person should be able to master.

00:03:34.980 | The other one being the hip hinge,

00:03:36.660 | being able to pick something up off the ground, a deadlift.

00:03:40.420 | And I wanted to do those two, not just one,

00:03:43.960 | because I wanted to show the principles

00:03:46.220 | that I wasn't built for one.

00:03:50.420 | I wasn't a specialist because of my lever links,

00:03:54.140 | torso links, all that, any outliers,

00:03:57.580 | because nobody had ever done a thousand pound squat.

00:04:01.620 | So this is it, and a thousand pound deadlift.

00:04:05.720 | It was outside of the scope of what anybody's,

00:04:09.140 | there's like half a dozen people that have done one

00:04:11.540 | or the other, but nobody's ever done both.

00:04:14.180 | And I wanted to do something unique.

00:04:15.780 | I wanted to do them, not only do it,

00:04:18.260 | but do them for reps to leave literally

00:04:20.500 | no question out there.

00:04:22.420 | And there's no competition for that.

00:04:24.860 | So it was, this is what I'm gonna go do.

00:04:27.780 | And to pull it off, I had some past issues

00:04:30.660 | with my elbows and stuff that I couldn't work around.

00:04:32.940 | So I had to wear straps, which was another reason

00:04:35.620 | I couldn't do it in the competition setting.

00:04:37.980 | So the first year I worked up

00:04:40.520 | and I did a thousand and two pound deadlift.

00:04:43.260 | We plates were weighed afterwards.

00:04:44.600 | It was a couple, a little bit over,

00:04:46.060 | and I did it for almost three reps.

00:04:47.860 | And that still stands as a Guinness world record.

00:04:51.820 | Just the one rep does,

00:04:53.500 | is the most weight ever sumo deadlifted.

00:04:56.020 | And one other person has deadlifted a thousand

00:04:58.460 | for reps at this point, and that was Thor Bjornsson

00:05:01.700 | from Game of Thrones.

00:05:02.540 | He's done a thousand for a double as well.

00:05:04.020 | So then the next four years,

00:05:06.620 | and I did a bunch of feats of strength on the way,

00:05:08.300 | but it was all about building that axial loading capacity,

00:05:12.760 | the strength that, 'cause now I'm moving the weight

00:05:14.420 | from my hands up to my shoulders.

00:05:16.500 | And so to do it for reps is like so much harder

00:05:19.680 | than a single, like five to 10 seconds

00:05:22.600 | versus 30 plus seconds to be able to buffer

00:05:26.020 | and manage all that with that kind of load is just crazy.

00:05:31.020 | - It's literally about the duration

00:05:32.620 | that your body is carrying the load.

00:05:34.820 | - Yeah, that's a big part of it.

00:05:36.300 | Yeah, because you have to,

00:05:38.220 | you're using the resource of the diaphragm

00:05:40.220 | for stabilization.

00:05:41.580 | And so it's also responsible for respiration

00:05:44.460 | and all this other stuff.

00:05:45.300 | So even when you're not squatting,

00:05:46.540 | you've got to be handling those loads.

00:05:48.180 | - Just holding that weight is fascinating.

00:05:50.500 | It's like, it's fascinating that the human body can do that,

00:05:54.460 | can maintain that structure,

00:05:57.040 | just everything working together,

00:05:58.900 | that the biology, the skeletal structure,

00:06:01.460 | the musculature on top of that can hold the weight.

00:06:05.020 | It's fascinating to watch.

00:06:06.180 | - Everything is very intentful about positioning

00:06:09.080 | and how you're creating pressure and all this sort of stuff,

00:06:12.140 | especially for me.

00:06:12.980 | So when I mentioned that half a dozen people have squatted it

00:06:15.460 | and half a dozen people have deadlifted it,

00:06:17.360 | you understand those people all weigh 380 to 440 pounds.

00:06:20.900 | I weighed 265 to 285,

00:06:23.300 | depending on where I was between the two.

00:06:25.940 | So there's that as well, right?

00:06:27.540 | So big, big difference.

00:06:29.640 | And over the course of that,

00:06:31.780 | I did a lot of other feats of strength

00:06:33.980 | that fit in that capacity and we can skip over those,

00:06:36.820 | but that was hugely invested as far as, you know,

00:06:41.260 | what I put into being able to accomplish that.

00:06:43.580 | 'Cause it's over the top,

00:06:45.120 | which means the other stuff had to shift

00:06:47.500 | and I had to learn some,

00:06:49.320 | there's so many things that came into place

00:06:51.040 | to pull that off.

00:06:52.300 | And so, yeah, last March,

00:06:53.800 | two days before the world shut down, I did it.

00:06:56.600 | It was supposed to be at the largest equipment exhibition

00:06:59.720 | in the world down in San Diego as an event.

00:07:02.880 | And that got shut down a week beforehand, obviously.

00:07:05.120 | So we moved to, let's do it in my gym and invite people.

00:07:08.260 | And that was on a Saturday and Thursday or Friday,

00:07:10.260 | they limited it to 25 people for gatherings.

00:07:13.260 | I did it on Saturday and then Monday, everything shut down.

00:07:17.320 | So it was kind of surreal for timing wise, right?

00:07:20.900 | And so if I hadn't done it, it would have never got done.

00:07:24.120 | Like, 'cause I'd pushed to the limit.

00:07:26.220 | I couldn't come back and do it.

00:07:27.700 | It was at the total limitation of my capabilities.

00:07:30.220 | So I'm pretty proud of it.

00:07:32.140 | Oh, and the last piece was,

00:07:33.840 | every one of these feats along the way,

00:07:36.400 | I collaborated with a charity that I believed in.

00:07:39.600 | And there was a lot of those tied to my life story,

00:07:42.600 | which we probably will get into.

00:07:45.160 | So it was threefold.

00:07:46.800 | So that inspiration piece, inspiration, motivation,

00:07:50.820 | walking the walk and showing, like,

00:07:53.680 | just these methodologies that a guy

00:07:56.560 | that had to learn to walk again

00:07:58.320 | can do something like this with no back pain.

00:08:01.920 | There is a way.

00:08:03.200 | And the third one is to provide awareness and recognition

00:08:06.640 | around a lot of key charities.

00:08:10.360 | - So your heart was in this journey, but also your mind.

00:08:13.200 | It's just, you're like a scholar of strength,

00:08:15.480 | a scientist of strength, an engineer of strength.

00:08:18.160 | For reps, do a thousand pounds of squat and deadlift.

00:08:21.980 | Let's first talk through the actual day you did it.

00:08:27.360 | What does it take to lift that much for reps?

00:08:32.360 | - The day of is really easy.

00:08:35.300 | The lift itself, other than a few seconds,

00:08:41.840 | is really easy and not challenging.

00:08:43.920 | People always ask me, what was it like?

00:08:46.100 | How beat up were you after that and the deadlift?

00:08:48.200 | And the simple fact is it was easy.

00:08:50.280 | The work to get there was horrendous.

00:08:56.840 | - So even the psychology of the day,

00:08:58.680 | you weren't, there was not a fear,

00:09:00.080 | there was not a nervousness,

00:09:01.520 | there was not a doubt in your mind?

00:09:03.680 | - There was certainly doubts on that day

00:09:05.840 | from some training history.

00:09:07.700 | So there was some major breaks to my confidence

00:09:11.360 | in the couple months leading up

00:09:13.160 | where I had issues with passing out under the bar.

00:09:17.580 | So completely losing consciousness.

00:09:19.320 | And this was on weight less than a thousand pounds even.

00:09:22.480 | So that was like all this buildup in me going, what if?

00:09:27.480 | I think I have this resolved, but what if I get up there

00:09:32.840 | and I can't even do a rep?

00:09:34.720 | How embarrassing will this be that I've been talking

00:09:37.120 | about this and planning for this for so long?

00:09:39.500 | But outside of that, I knew I could do it.

00:09:43.840 | In fact, I wanted to do even more, even up to the second rep.

00:09:47.800 | Training is about working into a fatigue state.

00:09:52.420 | So you're building an amount of fatigue in your system.

00:09:57.420 | And then when you let off of it,

00:09:59.540 | that's when you get a compensation

00:10:00.880 | and that's how you stair-step training.

00:10:02.240 | This is periodization, but leading into a big event,

00:10:05.160 | you're accumulating this massive amount of fatigue.

00:10:08.040 | And so I was performing at a level that I could do it.

00:10:11.620 | And so I knew I was gonna be able to on meet

00:10:14.040 | because then you give yourself that window

00:10:17.180 | to be able to recover and super compensate

00:10:19.680 | and be able to do a little bit more.

00:10:21.360 | So that first rep when I did it, strength-wise,

00:10:24.280 | I went, I could do this for five reps.

00:10:26.800 | Like it went through my head.

00:10:27.640 | I'm like, I mean, it was easy and it was fast

00:10:30.760 | and it felt amazing.

00:10:32.520 | And I'm like, I'm gonna crush this.

00:10:34.360 | And then set rep two, the realization kicked in.

00:10:37.880 | It's like, oh, this is for reps

00:10:39.480 | with a thousand pounds on your back

00:10:41.480 | and you're fatiguing just like...

00:10:43.720 | And then the third one was every last thing I could muster

00:10:47.840 | to just finish.

00:10:48.680 | I mean, I just barely got it done

00:10:50.440 | because the strength is there,

00:10:53.120 | but that capacity to be able to manage all those resources

00:10:57.200 | for that amount of time.

00:10:58.680 | 'Cause it's not just leg strength

00:10:59.760 | when we're talking about this stuff.

00:11:01.680 | - What does it take to go from, I don't know what,

00:11:06.680 | from 500 to a thousand?

00:11:09.080 | That feels like a journey that's exponential.

00:11:12.760 | It seems like way harder.

00:11:13.600 | - It is, it gets exponentially harder.

00:11:15.560 | It does.

00:11:16.400 | In the early 2000s, like I said, I started lift in 1988,

00:11:19.840 | but my first meet in the early 2000s,

00:11:22.000 | my max deadlift was 523 and my first squat was 550.

00:11:27.000 | So for reference.

00:11:30.400 | - That's a heck of a journey.

00:11:31.240 | - That is a journey.

00:11:32.920 | - For people that like to lift,

00:11:35.200 | what should they understand about the difference

00:11:37.000 | between doing 500 and a thousand?

00:11:39.100 | In terms of the actual lift

00:11:41.760 | that you were experiencing that day,

00:11:43.360 | in terms of the mechanics,

00:11:44.400 | in terms of all the things you have to be,

00:11:46.000 | like the neurological adaptation you mentioned,

00:11:49.080 | the breathing, the core strength,

00:11:52.560 | like techniques, like little tricks, psychological tricks,

00:11:55.920 | anything that kind of stands out to you?

00:11:58.640 | - The level of intent and the opportunity for error

00:12:02.240 | are at a different level.

00:12:04.520 | So just the minutest changes of position

00:12:08.200 | by quarter inch, half inch can be make or break

00:12:12.240 | at that level.

00:12:13.080 | So these things, everything gets amplified.

00:12:15.640 | So the ability to start with having the pelvis

00:12:19.000 | just in the right orientation to the diaphragm

00:12:21.320 | before we start initiating what we call

00:12:24.600 | the eccentric loading of the abdominal cavity

00:12:27.880 | to create this intra-abdominal pressure

00:12:29.920 | of working against this outward expansion,

00:12:32.600 | working against the outer sheath

00:12:34.200 | of abdominal thoracolumbar musculature, obliques,

00:12:38.640 | causing the co-contraction at the pelvic floor,

00:12:41.640 | all this stuff and how you cue that,

00:12:43.520 | 'cause you can't think about all this stuff.

00:12:44.800 | You need to break it down and distill in practice

00:12:46.700 | to like it's one simple cue that we now lock down

00:12:51.000 | and control this torso stability,

00:12:54.560 | because this is what these fundamental movements are about

00:12:56.920 | is being able to control our spinal mechanics

00:12:59.600 | and then now be able to maintain that

00:13:03.080 | while articulating the joints around that

00:13:05.280 | through a range of motion,

00:13:06.700 | and then using the main power drivers.

00:13:11.720 | So in this instance, both instances,

00:13:13.600 | it's the hip complex to generate that power

00:13:17.780 | and transfer it from how we're rooted

00:13:19.700 | and connected to the floor through to the distal end,

00:13:23.340 | which would be the barbell on the shoulder.

00:13:26.100 | There's a couple of key concepts.

00:13:27.980 | So one is that what we just talked through

00:13:29.820 | is how to actually maintain that stability.

00:13:32.180 | So if you have either the diaphragm,

00:13:34.740 | so which is connected at the rib cage,

00:13:37.220 | so out of alignment in any position,

00:13:39.420 | it needs to be in alignment with the pelvis.

00:13:44.040 | So those two in opposition.

00:13:45.360 | So this is simple engineering here,

00:13:47.640 | because what we're gonna do is eccentrically load this.

00:13:50.840 | We're gonna use the diaphragm

00:13:51.920 | just like you would in a diaphragm pump,

00:13:54.160 | where it's gonna press down on all the tissue in there.

00:13:57.180 | So we're not using breath.

00:13:58.880 | So our breath was actually a lot of times a default pattern

00:14:01.400 | when people do that,

00:14:02.240 | because they'll bring it into their chest

00:14:04.080 | and raise their rib cage.

00:14:06.800 | So what we wanna do is just initiate the diaphragm.

00:14:10.380 | Air can be used as well over the top at the final

00:14:13.260 | to create just a little bit more downward pressure.

00:14:15.720 | But if we have out of alignment there,

00:14:17.940 | we have a pressure leak,

00:14:21.760 | where it's gonna be push out the front or the rear

00:14:23.880 | if you're either inflection or extension.

00:14:25.980 | And then that causes this co-contraction

00:14:29.500 | and all this pressure of the organs,

00:14:32.580 | essentially outward against all those tissue

00:14:35.220 | for the co-contraction, as well as surrounding the spine

00:14:37.760 | to be able to stabilize that.

00:14:39.180 | And then it puts all the muscles on both sides of the body

00:14:42.420 | in what we call the best length tension relationship.

00:14:47.180 | So if you think about a curl and we reach our arm out,

00:14:50.060 | at the extended length, our bicep is not as strong,

00:14:53.580 | and then all the way in the curl position,

00:14:55.380 | it's not as strong.

00:14:56.220 | There's somewhere in here that's this control of both.

00:14:59.040 | And so when you're sitting there arched or bent over,

00:15:03.140 | we have muscles that are past either one of those ranges.

00:15:06.300 | So they've got a lot of tension,

00:15:07.800 | which then will create relaxation on the other side.

00:15:10.040 | So we wanna have, and all of that needs to be working.

00:15:12.900 | And now the next important thing is the foot.

00:15:15.680 | So it's actually this connection to the ground

00:15:19.800 | and how we're actually using the foot and ankle complex

00:15:23.360 | to grab and grip this connection to the ground

00:15:26.780 | and elicit an effect.

00:15:29.100 | And because of this, and then everything between

00:15:32.520 | will naturally kind of do what it needs to do.

00:15:35.100 | So people like to focus on knee position

00:15:38.620 | or how far out their hips are, all this other stuff,

00:15:41.900 | which is outputs of this.

00:15:44.260 | So if we control the torso and the knee,

00:15:46.540 | the only thing that can happen from that point

00:15:49.300 | is for the squat to happen.

00:15:51.700 | All right.

00:15:53.940 | So this allows us to use this massive,

00:15:56.660 | the hip complex for all the muscles around that

00:16:00.620 | that are built to drive through hip extension

00:16:03.880 | to complete the squat.

00:16:05.200 | I did actually miss one thing in there.

00:16:06.840 | So this torso, people will often miss,

00:16:09.440 | the lat is a spinal stabilizer as well.

00:16:11.600 | So that's key in controlling function at the TL junction,

00:16:15.680 | which is just above the lumbar spine.

00:16:18.740 | So kind of right opposite where your sternum is,

00:16:21.280 | and you'll see people kind of roll over sometimes

00:16:22.880 | like in an Olympic squat or something like that

00:16:24.640 | where they lose position.

00:16:25.880 | And that's often because they're close grip

00:16:28.200 | because you can't engage the lats very well that way.

00:16:29.960 | And they're pushing up in the bar,

00:16:31.460 | but you want to be able to drive

00:16:33.220 | and pull the bar to your center.

00:16:34.940 | And that's going to create and use the lats now to drive

00:16:37.580 | and connect the shoulder into this.

00:16:40.820 | And we're kind of congressing and tightening all this stuff

00:16:43.020 | towards that center to create that entire torso stability.

00:16:46.340 | That's why I was using torso stability,

00:16:48.140 | not just core stability in my conversation earlier.

00:16:52.620 | - Torso stability.

00:16:53.460 | Okay. So there's all these like modules

00:16:55.820 | - Yeah. - of the body

00:16:57.300 | then connected to the grounding

00:16:59.380 | with like your feet on the ground,

00:17:01.340 | everything you're speaking to,

00:17:04.440 | how do you work each of those modules?

00:17:06.440 | Is this over time you kind of develop the feel

00:17:09.620 | that ultimately boils down to this one simple cue

00:17:12.000 | that you mentioned,

00:17:13.060 | or can you like literally study each particular module

00:17:17.180 | in yourself and see how it affects the lift?

00:17:20.100 | - So the best way, and I'm a big believer,

00:17:21.700 | 'cause I hate just like people getting out

00:17:23.780 | and just doing just movement stuff

00:17:25.740 | and not actually adding load,

00:17:27.060 | because we only adapt when there's load.

00:17:30.060 | Maybe we can get some, you know,

00:17:31.740 | some proprioception or awareness of position

00:17:33.940 | and other stuff doing some corrective patterns

00:17:37.340 | and other stuff.

00:17:38.420 | But this is basic physiology,

00:17:41.680 | is that there must be an imposed demand

00:17:44.460 | for us to have adaptation.

00:17:46.000 | And this is mental, this is emotional,

00:17:47.560 | this is all these areas,

00:17:49.460 | but, and people miss that.

00:17:52.620 | So I prefer to be able to look at a person,

00:17:56.700 | and this is our methodology,

00:17:57.980 | and do the assessment in any basic loaded movement.

00:18:01.200 | So with developing an eye for that,

00:18:03.340 | you can actually see and go,

00:18:05.020 | okay, we've got a fault pattern right here in the foot,

00:18:07.320 | and use a cue or a set of cues,

00:18:09.380 | doesn't really matter till we find the one that works

00:18:11.460 | and bring that, and now we know.

00:18:12.780 | We wanna simplify this.

00:18:14.180 | Stuff I just walked through,

00:18:15.020 | that sounds really complicated,

00:18:16.060 | and it is if we try to break down and distill it all,

00:18:18.540 | but like, let's just find the basic stuff

00:18:20.660 | that gets us in the range, start working,

00:18:22.540 | and then find the next as we add load,

00:18:24.900 | and now we find where's our next area

00:18:27.140 | that we're starting to fault at,

00:18:28.380 | and then go there again next.

00:18:29.780 | So this is what we do,

00:18:31.140 | what we teach in our educational platform.

00:18:32.820 | So we are the only, I believe,

00:18:34.940 | everybody wants to do a lot of these assessments,

00:18:39.420 | on a bench, on a table, body,

00:18:41.060 | and it's like, no, let's go squat, let's go deadlift.

00:18:43.620 | If you do strongman and it's a yoke carry, let's yoke carry.

00:18:46.060 | 'Cause these are basic human fundamentals,

00:18:47.620 | it's not power lifting.

00:18:49.080 | Like this is how we function,

00:18:50.900 | this is why we work with 29

00:18:53.380 | of the 30 major league baseball teams,

00:18:55.180 | and 90% of all professional sports out there,

00:18:58.820 | in North America, sorry.

00:18:59.960 | Although we do some work with Tour de France

00:19:01.580 | and other stuff as well.

00:19:03.160 | And North America, I do mean hockey too.

00:19:05.220 | (laughing)

00:19:06.660 | But these principles, like, you know,

00:19:09.140 | if the Dodgers won't bring us in,

00:19:11.100 | they're not learning how to power lift.

00:19:14.500 | You know, we're gonna, obviously,

00:19:15.940 | we'll probably be doing,

00:19:16.860 | we do a little bit more shoulder focus

00:19:19.260 | than hip focus with their athletes, or their coaches.

00:19:22.260 | We're usually working with the coaches, not the athletes.

00:19:23.940 | - And so you help them,

00:19:25.060 | and then the same thing on yourself,

00:19:27.020 | to understand the role

00:19:28.060 | that these different muscle groups have

00:19:30.380 | on the holistic lift.

00:19:32.180 | - Yeah, so it's all about getting the joints

00:19:34.180 | in the appropriate position,

00:19:36.060 | so that we can manage loads,

00:19:38.980 | so that we're not putting undue stress on the joint,

00:19:40.820 | we're getting the proper link tension,

00:19:42.100 | we're getting these basic fundamental things with the body.

00:19:44.500 | And so the largest global impact that you will have

00:19:48.860 | is through spinal mechanics.

00:19:50.700 | I can't look at a shoulder if I'm not managing this,

00:19:54.100 | 'cause it's your spine.

00:19:55.100 | So for those that are just listening,

00:19:56.220 | like, I'm arching and then flexing.

00:19:59.060 | That's gonna affect shoulder extension,

00:20:01.860 | flexion, all these sorts of things.

00:20:03.060 | So it could even affect things down

00:20:05.340 | to what's looking at dorsiflexion issues on the foot.

00:20:08.180 | And then that's why I go to the foot next,

00:20:09.940 | because it has the second largest global impact.

00:20:12.820 | And then from there,

00:20:13.660 | now I'm gonna look at the big energy drivers,

00:20:15.260 | which is the hip complex, shoulder complex.

00:20:17.660 | And then we can start looking

00:20:19.340 | at kind of the peripheral things,

00:20:21.060 | but usually that's some sort of output of the other,

00:20:22.980 | but the knees, the elbows, the things like that.

00:20:26.340 | So it's all about getting the stack,

00:20:28.180 | which affects neurology.

00:20:29.660 | So let's talk in engineering terms.

00:20:32.300 | You get in a car, modern car today,

00:20:35.140 | and a lot of them will have

00:20:35.980 | this traction control button in there.

00:20:37.580 | And there's a big misconception that,

00:20:39.820 | you know, I'm out and it's snowy,

00:20:42.100 | or here in Austin only rainy,

00:20:43.780 | well, it probably doesn't rain much,

00:20:44.820 | but you're going around a corner, start slipping.

00:20:46.860 | It's like, oh, it's gonna send the powers

00:20:48.140 | from the wheels that are slipping

00:20:49.060 | to the ones that are gripping,

00:20:50.580 | and keep me from crashing and dying a fiery death.

00:20:53.380 | Well, that's not how it works.

00:20:55.940 | It's the exact same.

00:20:56.900 | We've got the tires, which are our foot,

00:21:00.500 | you know, the connection to the ground, right?

00:21:03.300 | We've got the power driver, which is, you know,

00:21:06.140 | the engine, the transmission delivering,

00:21:08.820 | you know, the power through it.

00:21:10.500 | And we've got the stability or suspension.

00:21:13.060 | And then we have the neurology.

00:21:16.340 | And what the neurology is doing,

00:21:17.860 | it's sensing that we don't have good stability

00:21:22.500 | or a loss of connection somewhere.

00:21:24.540 | And so I need to save you from crashing and hurting yourself.

00:21:27.780 | And so it goes to the engine and says,

00:21:29.980 | let's retard the timing, let's reduce the shift patterns,

00:21:32.860 | and we're just reducing the power output.

00:21:35.540 | And that's straight how the human body works.

00:21:38.060 | So when I do this stuff, it's actually affecting that.

00:21:41.620 | I mean, I can take somebody and do some minute changes

00:21:43.740 | with the neck position at the thoracic outlet, okay?

00:21:47.340 | And immediately see an enhancement in power output.

00:21:51.220 | And I can measure it.

00:21:52.060 | We measure this stuff with velocity devices

00:21:55.380 | and see like a 10%, boom, jump.

00:21:57.820 | And so think about that.

00:21:59.740 | What about all your training through the years

00:22:02.140 | where you actually had additional capacity,

00:22:04.460 | but you weren't using it

00:22:07.060 | because your traction control was on?

00:22:09.740 | Now you figure this out stuff,

00:22:10.820 | and now you start stacking it,

00:22:12.020 | and now you can see so much greater.

00:22:14.220 | So it's not just injury prevention.

00:22:17.660 | This is performance and additive performance over time.

00:22:22.660 | This is huge, and people don't really think about this stuff

00:22:26.140 | but we can turn that stuff off,

00:22:28.260 | which is actually gonna also, again, make us safer.

00:22:31.300 | But what we wanna do is the performance tuned race car.

00:22:33.740 | Do they have a traction control button?

00:22:36.060 | No, they got some amazing tires to grip the ground,

00:22:39.460 | a performance tuned suspension,

00:22:41.140 | and that driver's gonna put what?

00:22:42.820 | His foot to the metal.

00:22:44.140 | He's gonna put it to the floor.

00:22:45.740 | Okay, that's a performance vehicle.

00:22:48.820 | That's what we wanna be.

00:22:50.220 | - I wanna continue on that line,

00:22:52.220 | but first I have to ask,

00:22:54.140 | how did it feel to accomplish the grand goal?

00:22:56.260 | - Oh my God.

00:22:57.100 | - Okay, when you just stand back,

00:23:00.060 | 1,000 pounds for reps, what'd it feel like?

00:23:03.240 | - Anybody can go watch the video online.

00:23:06.740 | - It's well filmed, by the way.

00:23:09.740 | Got me all excited.

00:23:11.620 | - Oh, well, the movies.

00:23:13.260 | So we actually have the final footage of that,

00:23:15.580 | the good footage, not posted yet.

00:23:17.300 | So it's literally just an Instagram video

00:23:19.500 | or a phone video right now, the only one online.

00:23:22.420 | - It's on your YouTube channel, but it's dramatic.

00:23:24.820 | - Yes, it is.

00:23:25.660 | It came out just timed to the music perfectly too,

00:23:28.260 | which is, I listened to some odd music,

00:23:30.300 | which there's some reason behind that.

00:23:32.500 | But--

00:23:33.340 | - I liked it though.

00:23:34.820 | It was great.

00:23:35.660 | You're saying there's full length footage?

00:23:37.660 | - There's a documentary that's,

00:23:39.500 | it's got a little slowed because of COVID

00:23:41.220 | 'cause it's also a backstory of "The Eagle and the Dragon,"

00:23:44.380 | my book, about why I do kind of the things

00:23:47.620 | that I've done in my life.

00:23:49.220 | That's what I'm assuming the director's working on.

00:23:51.140 | I don't really have the control of the movie, right?

00:23:53.940 | (laughing)

00:23:56.620 | - But okay, but the video's incredible.

00:23:58.500 | How did it feel?

00:23:59.340 | - How'd it feel?

00:24:00.160 | I started crying.

00:24:01.500 | It was overwhelming to have worked so intensely

00:24:06.460 | and so long and hard at something

00:24:08.300 | that pushed every ounce of me to the limit.

00:24:12.180 | And I did it.

00:24:15.500 | I'm getting a little emotional.

00:24:16.420 | I did exactly what I said I was gonna fucking do.

00:24:19.300 | And it was overpowering.

00:24:23.980 | I mean, I was just crying uncontrollably.

00:24:27.040 | Just with a mixture of,

00:24:29.580 | I don't know what,

00:24:32.620 | the mixture of emotions is hard to explain

00:24:37.260 | because it was the completion of something.

00:24:40.460 | It was a new phase of my life.

00:24:41.960 | - I mean, there's so many things here.

00:24:45.140 | So one, you set an impossible goal and you accomplished it.

00:24:47.780 | One.

00:24:48.700 | Two is on the broader humanity aspect,

00:24:52.540 | how many humans in this world accomplish perfection

00:24:57.580 | in a particular direction required to do this?

00:25:01.220 | So you're basically representing

00:25:04.860 | one little glimmer of excellence of the human spirit.

00:25:09.860 | - There's always more.

00:25:12.260 | So understand this.

00:25:13.260 | This is a basic fundamental.

00:25:16.660 | You can always do better.

00:25:18.120 | There is no such thing as perfection.

00:25:20.020 | You could always, there is always more.

00:25:23.100 | So anytime you reach something,

00:25:24.660 | any amazing workout or accomplishment in life,

00:25:27.740 | could you have put more into it?

00:25:28.960 | Could you?

00:25:29.800 | Yes.

00:25:30.620 | But here's the thing.

00:25:33.560 | I left on my terms.

00:25:34.980 | I said, this is it.

00:25:38.680 | I'm gonna work towards, I've been training for 30 years.

00:25:42.040 | I'm gonna do this thing that is,

00:25:43.880 | like I couldn't even say

00:25:45.040 | that I was gonna do it years before.

00:25:46.960 | I'm gonna do it and then I'm done.

00:25:50.340 | I didn't leave from an injury.

00:25:53.080 | I wasn't forced.

00:25:54.120 | I left on, I did exactly what I said.

00:25:58.080 | I went to a level that I,

00:26:00.200 | I left on my terms.

00:26:03.280 | And that's unique.

00:26:04.920 | 'Cause that's usually not the case.

00:26:07.060 | Usually you kind of either taper out or it doesn't matter.

00:26:10.120 | I'm talking like anything in life in general, right?

00:26:12.760 | You taper out, you fail, you hurt, you lose a job.

00:26:17.840 | Something, you roll into retirement.

00:26:20.860 | - You accomplished something truly great

00:26:24.080 | and you walked away on your own terms.

00:26:25.680 | Is there a sadness completing something like that?

00:26:30.080 | Because it's in one perspective,

00:26:34.520 | the greatest thing you'll ever do.

00:26:37.000 | And like when you accomplish such a great height,

00:26:40.560 | in some sense you have to face your mortality at that point.

00:26:44.320 | - So good question,

00:26:46.280 | but it is certainly not the greatest thing that I'll ever do.

00:26:49.480 | The greatest physical strength I'll ever do.

00:26:51.840 | The greatest, yes.

00:26:53.240 | But that was an expression of some of my values

00:26:59.840 | and the way that I want to live.

00:27:01.160 | It was a way of expressing it.

00:27:03.280 | So understanding that is hugely fundamental

00:27:06.760 | because we do see so many athletes

00:27:10.800 | get to the end of a career

00:27:12.380 | and then they fall into a depressive state

00:27:15.840 | and struggle with drugs, alcohol, depression, so on,

00:27:19.240 | because they lost how they identified themselves

00:27:23.240 | and trying to figure out where to turn, what to do,

00:27:25.200 | but a big central component of their identity is lost.

00:27:29.320 | So I knew that this was one way to express that

00:27:34.320 | and my grand goals have shifted.

00:27:38.520 | They're shifted to other outlets

00:27:40.200 | that allow me to express that.

00:27:41.760 | Like my company's Kabuki Strength,

00:27:44.060 | I'm going to change the face of fitness

00:27:47.000 | as well as all the way through with its integration

00:27:50.080 | with clinical medicine and telemedicine.

00:27:52.280 | And I got another five years

00:27:54.160 | before even people see what I'm working on.

00:27:55.680 | I'm five years in right now

00:27:56.520 | 'cause I had to invent equipment.

00:27:58.200 | I have to develop methodologies that we're talking.

00:28:00.560 | I had to do this stuff that Ground Layer wasn't done

00:28:03.240 | to create a cohesive ecosystem of training methodology

00:28:07.440 | tied to the tools that we're using,

00:28:08.880 | to the environment tied to,

00:28:10.360 | the clinical practice assessment tied to,

00:28:13.080 | the interaction between all those

00:28:15.320 | and how that actually needs to be reframed

00:28:17.160 | because so much of this is broken, okay?

00:28:19.260 | So, but there is sadness.

00:28:23.140 | I won't deny that.

00:28:26.400 | And the sadness comes in the singularity

00:28:30.080 | of focus that I had at that time,

00:28:33.880 | the being in the process,

00:28:36.920 | not necessarily doing, but like,

00:28:38.900 | having being in this place that the rest of the world

00:28:42.380 | kind of fell away from me in those final phases

00:28:44.600 | to have something so intense,

00:28:46.880 | to have a team around me so focused on supporting.

00:28:49.360 | And like, it took me a couple months after that squat,

00:28:52.900 | I finally one day I woke up and I was like,

00:28:56.260 | oh, welcome back to the world.

00:28:59.580 | Like I was in such a mental fog.

00:29:02.060 | Like I was, it took me a while to climb out of that,

00:29:05.960 | but that space, that level of intensity and drive

00:29:10.020 | and living and being in that space,

00:29:12.680 | I do miss that, but I also, I can't continue that.

00:29:17.540 | I couldn't continue, like,

00:29:19.140 | there's a point of like, you push it so hard,

00:29:21.500 | the level to try to go from there is not acceptable

00:29:25.020 | for what you, the impacts that it'll have on your life

00:29:27.180 | or how you want to live.

00:29:28.000 | And it was taking away those final,

00:29:29.860 | like I had to do extreme things

00:29:32.300 | and live in an extreme way to get there.

00:29:34.820 | - You're just a genius in this whole space of strength

00:29:37.720 | and health and almost like biology

00:29:40.460 | that the strength feat is just one representation of that.

00:29:45.420 | But this particular strength feat required

00:29:47.380 | that kind of singular focus, which I think,

00:29:50.160 | I don't know, there's something beautiful

00:29:53.260 | about that singular focus.

00:29:54.620 | - There is.

00:29:55.540 | - Often only truly perfected in athletics.

00:29:59.180 | I see it with the greatest Olympic athletes as well.

00:30:01.940 | The kind of singular focus required there is incredible.

00:30:04.420 | It's somehow some of the most beautiful things

00:30:08.820 | that humans can do.

00:30:10.060 | - And it's not just that thing.

00:30:11.820 | So that's the thing, it's like, oh, that must be it.

00:30:13.480 | When we say singularity of focus, it's not like,

00:30:16.020 | because it covers a vast array of stuff.

00:30:19.460 | Like I was working with people, you know, all,

00:30:24.060 | well, yeah, all around North America.

00:30:25.940 | I wouldn't say anybody around the globe,

00:30:27.340 | but professionals coming in,

00:30:28.660 | working on different aspects of rehab and recovery.

00:30:32.740 | And like, I mean, I'm tapping all sorts of stuff

00:30:35.900 | in so many platforms from nutrition to drugs,

00:30:40.900 | to again, like, you know, various Chinese medicine,

00:30:46.020 | you know, as far as, you know.

00:30:47.580 | - But also the humans in your life,

00:30:49.180 | just love and positivity and just inspiration,

00:30:52.740 | all those kinds of aspects.

00:30:54.060 | I mean, you probably would have done much more

00:30:56.340 | if you went outside North America,

00:30:58.820 | talked to some Russians, just between you and I.

00:31:01.340 | Some Russians.

00:31:02.180 | - Possibly.

00:31:03.020 | (laughing)

00:31:03.840 | - They give you some, I don't know,

00:31:06.420 | there's some incredible strength athletes in Eastern Europe.

00:31:09.620 | - Absolutely.

00:31:10.660 | I've got the best one coming in September to get fixed, so.

00:31:15.540 | - What do you mean by fixed?

00:31:17.060 | - So I'm not sure what his particular issues are,

00:31:18.800 | but he has held the all-time world record repeatedly

00:31:22.680 | for a long time, and he hasn't competed for some time,

00:31:25.100 | and he just reached out saying he would like to come

00:31:27.860 | and have me take a look and see if I can get him fixed

00:31:30.620 | because he needs to return.

00:31:32.100 | - Okay, so it's more injury-centric versus like form

00:31:35.240 | and fundamental-centric combination of everything.

00:31:38.780 | - Everybody always wants to focus on the output.

00:31:40.380 | How do you give me the fix for that?

00:31:42.260 | But it ties right back into all those other things, right?

00:31:46.300 | So, but yeah, the Eastern block continued

00:31:49.860 | to be a dominant force in regards to athletics

00:31:53.440 | and strength athletics, without a doubt.

00:31:55.980 | Some of my big rivals in my competitive days

00:31:58.120 | were, that's who it was.

00:32:01.160 | - Rivalry brings out the best in us.

00:32:03.440 | Can you tell me the story of your childhood?

00:32:05.520 | - It's definitely outside the scope of the norm,

00:32:07.740 | well, today, maybe not 150 or 200 years ago,

00:32:10.800 | but my parents, highly intelligent people

00:32:15.800 | coming out of the Bay Area.

00:32:18.920 | My mom was going to school to be a chemical engineer.

00:32:22.340 | She was a top student athlete, graduated out of her school.

00:32:26.000 | My father was a member of MENSA.

00:32:28.060 | My stepfather was just a genius,

00:32:29.900 | but not able to really function in society.

00:32:32.500 | But my mom was, she had some demons and some other stuff

00:32:35.340 | and just, she just said one day, she's like,

00:32:38.100 | "I just don't wanna be part of society."

00:32:40.740 | She still isn't.

00:32:41.580 | Lives out in the desert, but has her minds.

00:32:45.700 | But she wanted to figure out a way

00:32:48.760 | to make a life outside of that.

00:32:51.080 | And so that's where we ended up,

00:32:53.480 | is up in the mountains in Northern California.

00:32:56.440 | And a lot of that was them trying to get into

00:33:01.440 | successfully growing marijuana,

00:33:04.520 | which back in that, wasn't legal back then, highly illegal.

00:33:07.840 | And in fact, those areas were,

00:33:09.800 | some of the areas where I lived were quite dangerous.

00:33:11.800 | So there's a documentary, "Murder Mountain,"

00:33:14.720 | that came out recently.

00:33:16.200 | If you watch that, you'll tie into my book,

00:33:19.280 | just the understanding of the stuff

00:33:22.040 | that I was talking about, dealing with serial killers,

00:33:25.680 | human trafficking, police corruption, murderers,

00:33:30.680 | like just how real that stuff is

00:33:33.440 | if it doesn't capture you from the book, okay?

00:33:35.800 | - The book, by the way, is "The Eagle and the Dragon."

00:33:37.560 | - Yeah, thank you.

00:33:38.560 | (both laughing)

00:33:39.920 | Yeah, yeah. - It's a great one.

00:33:40.760 | - I'm a terrible salesperson, like I told you.

00:33:42.760 | So. (laughs)

00:33:44.280 | - But a good, it's a good title.

00:33:46.100 | I don't know if you came up with it, but.

00:33:47.840 | - I did, yeah.

00:33:48.960 | - So yeah, we'll talk about that anyway.

00:33:50.680 | - We're living by a stream, off a meadow.

00:33:54.080 | There's no roads into where you have to hike in.

00:33:56.840 | And we've got beams lashed into the trees up above us

00:33:59.560 | because that's where our bedding is

00:34:00.720 | 'cause there's rattlesnake dens all around.

00:34:02.960 | And six years old, I'm being taught how to capture

00:34:07.960 | and handle live rattlesnakes

00:34:10.600 | because that's what I need to do to be safe.

00:34:13.480 | And you can imagine, six years old,

00:34:15.040 | sitting there with a live rattlesnake in your hand,

00:34:16.820 | grabbing it by the side of the head,

00:34:18.440 | controlling so it can't bite you.

00:34:20.480 | And it's just wrapping itself around your arm

00:34:23.160 | and you're staring at it.

00:34:24.480 | It's only intent is, right then, is to kill you.

00:34:28.560 | Like, that's it, right?

00:34:29.720 | You wanna take a bath,

00:34:32.440 | it's filling up the jug in the stream

00:34:34.020 | and setting it out on the rocks during the sun

00:34:36.920 | so you can dump it over your head.

00:34:38.120 | And not all the living was that way.

00:34:40.320 | You know, good part was similar to that, tent living,

00:34:44.120 | living in a 16-foot trailer with a family of six,

00:34:47.320 | which is not much bigger than the space

00:34:49.640 | that we're sitting here.

00:34:50.840 | So, and we're talking hard winters

00:34:53.500 | with feet of snow on the ground, nowhere to go.

00:34:56.540 | I'm living in the back of the pickup truck

00:34:58.560 | in just a standard sleeping bag

00:35:01.020 | that we get from the Salvation Army,

00:35:02.320 | not the Blow Zero.

00:35:04.040 | So I'm not sleeping well.

00:35:07.120 | There's living in homes that were maybe condemned.

00:35:10.840 | There's no doors even on 'em,

00:35:13.200 | no electricity or running water,

00:35:14.880 | or one or the other or both,

00:35:16.360 | and sometimes a little bit better.

00:35:17.480 | By the time we got to high school, we had a mobile home.

00:35:21.840 | So my stepfather had won a disability payment

00:35:24.200 | 'cause he had a broken arm that whole time

00:35:26.220 | from an accident a long time ago

00:35:28.240 | and finally got an award

00:35:30.440 | and got a down payment on this mobile home

00:35:32.440 | that didn't have, again, doors on the inside.

00:35:35.200 | It did have running water, it did have electricity.

00:35:36.840 | Didn't have a kitchen.

00:35:38.400 | You know, the windows would crank closed and open,

00:35:40.720 | but they wouldn't close all the way.

00:35:42.040 | So they'll trim 'em in with plastic

00:35:44.600 | to be able to try to protect from the elements.

00:35:47.600 | That was my environment,

00:35:48.600 | like learning how to forage for mushrooms.

00:35:51.480 | I mean, there were summers I would send,

00:35:53.320 | and my parents would be out.

00:35:54.800 | They were in the drug trade earlier.

00:35:56.100 | We got taken by the police

00:35:59.200 | and put into foster care for a while,

00:36:04.200 | which ties into some of the stories

00:36:06.520 | with human trafficking.

00:36:07.640 | And honestly, it's in my book,

00:36:08.960 | but it's really hard for me to talk about that stuff.

00:36:13.740 | And obviously not all that's in the book.

00:36:17.680 | But they got us back, moved to Oregon,

00:36:20.960 | and they stayed out of the drug trade from that time

00:36:23.200 | to ensure that they didn't lose us again.

00:36:26.700 | But quickly, we kind of fell back into the same thing.

00:36:28.740 | So at that point, it was learning about geology

00:36:31.540 | and starting to do mining

00:36:33.520 | and firewood cutting, but mostly the mining

00:36:37.600 | 'cause Pat's broken arm chainsaw made a little tough.

00:36:40.440 | - If you remember just the sequence of moments,

00:36:43.160 | are you haunted by the darker moments of your childhood?

00:36:48.200 | Do you remember moments of simple joy and happiness?

00:36:53.200 | - Outside of the living around dangerous people

00:36:57.460 | and the interactions that came from that,

00:37:00.080 | we were a family.

00:37:01.840 | We were a cohesive unit battling against the world together.

00:37:04.920 | We spent all our time together, work, play.

00:37:09.680 | I was there.

00:37:10.720 | I was helping raise my siblings or I was working with them.

00:37:14.200 | And it was a constant, like I said,

00:37:17.440 | we were very physically active.

00:37:18.880 | So I had that in my upbringing.

00:37:21.880 | That plug for my shoe company, Barefoot, B-E-A-R.

00:37:25.400 | I ran around the wilderness and bare feet all the time.

00:37:27.680 | But I had a lot of great moments

00:37:32.000 | and I'm thankful for a lot of that childhood

00:37:34.600 | once we take out the trauma

00:37:36.200 | and the other stuff associated with it.

00:37:38.240 | And so the connection that I have with my sisters is huge.

00:37:44.640 | That goes a bit further 'cause I am kind of like

00:37:49.000 | a little bit of a father figure

00:37:50.120 | because I was at home raising them.

00:37:51.920 | And then later I took custody of them

00:37:54.120 | while I was going to school

00:37:55.240 | because the environment at home deteriorated further.

00:37:57.920 | Their stepfather, like I said,

00:37:59.520 | was he wasn't capable of managing life.

00:38:03.040 | And my mom had a mental breakdown and took off to Montana

00:38:06.560 | and he descended into madness even worse.

00:38:10.440 | Actually took my 13 year old sister

00:38:12.960 | and kicked her out in the middle of winter,

00:38:14.640 | couple feet of snow on the ground

00:38:16.040 | because he thought she stole his favorite cereal bowl type.

00:38:19.400 | So that's when I took in and I was going to college,

00:38:25.040 | put myself through college

00:38:26.120 | and I started taking custody of my sisters and raising them.

00:38:28.480 | So anyway, we're still like very, very tight family.

00:38:33.480 | It took, there was a few years later in life

00:38:37.640 | like that the connection with my mother was kind of broken.

00:38:42.280 | I didn't speak to her for years

00:38:43.540 | because of her basically abandoning my sisters

00:38:46.920 | and me having to come in,

00:38:47.880 | but we've worked through that as best we can.

00:38:50.880 | - So you anger on your part?

00:38:53.200 | - It wasn't, there might've been some anger.

00:38:57.160 | - Did you always love her?

00:38:58.440 | - Yes, and I still do.

00:38:59.560 | And I'm so, she's taught me basically everything I know

00:39:03.440 | about strength and perseverance

00:39:06.120 | and living life on your terms and being able to create that.

00:39:11.120 | And so much of what I am is from that, right?

00:39:16.040 | We've all had to learn to be okay with the way she is

00:39:21.440 | because she is just blunt,

00:39:24.000 | but she's the one that figured out

00:39:27.880 | that the human trafficking situation

00:39:29.880 | and got the DA involved and got all the,

00:39:34.140 | she's the one that I've learned a lot from her.

00:39:40.680 | - Did you inherit some of the demons?

00:39:44.360 | - Oh, most certainly.

00:39:45.640 | And it's something I've continued like,

00:39:48.640 | and my father's side has been really tough on that

00:39:52.720 | because some of it is just based genetic as well.

00:39:55.680 | So my stepfather made, I think six or seven attempts

00:39:58.960 | on his life during his lifetime.

00:40:00.980 | One of those in front of me,

00:40:03.240 | his mother blew her head off with a shotgun.

00:40:07.680 | Her brother jumped out a window in LA.

00:40:10.780 | Their father did something similar.

00:40:13.040 | And I don't know how far back it goes

00:40:14.700 | because there is no family except for me and my children.

00:40:18.480 | - You spoke about going through depression yourself.

00:40:21.640 | - Yeah.

00:40:23.160 | - Can you talk about some of the darker moments of that?

00:40:26.360 | Have you ever, like many in your family,

00:40:30.200 | have you ever considered suicide?

00:40:31.720 | - Yes, I have.

00:40:32.560 | Yes, I have.

00:40:34.460 | - You've achieved a lot of exceptional things in your life.

00:40:39.520 | Can you talk about those early days of depression

00:40:42.600 | and how you overcame it?

00:40:45.560 | - Yeah, so the things that I did

00:40:48.720 | that people give me accolades for

00:40:51.560 | are the things that I did selfishly to save myself.

00:40:55.420 | The things like taking custody of my sisters,

00:40:59.160 | being the person that everybody around,

00:41:04.160 | the important people relied on,

00:41:06.120 | the fact that I had to step to the plate and be present

00:41:10.400 | and be that person.

00:41:13.000 | Because if I failed, they failed.

00:41:18.000 | They would be like the people that I grew up with

00:41:20.080 | that are dead or in prison or on drugs.

00:41:25.080 | And they're either way to one of those, right?

00:41:30.000 | That's where everybody ended.

00:41:31.320 | And I wasn't gonna let that happen.

00:41:33.880 | - What about saving yourself?

00:41:35.500 | - And so that's how, in those early days,

00:41:38.680 | that's how I did it.

00:41:39.520 | Not saying it's the best approach,

00:41:40.720 | but it was survivor mentality.

00:41:42.100 | It was, I can't selfishly do that

00:41:44.920 | because I have them to take care of.

00:41:47.040 | Right?

00:41:49.480 | And then that continued where I would keep putting myself

00:41:52.400 | in these leadership roles or other things.

00:41:54.000 | And there's always being this person

00:41:56.400 | that was at the center, at the hub

00:42:00.320 | that forced me to be there.

00:42:03.800 | And so it's only in the more recent,

00:42:08.000 | last decade or so that I have had to really learn

00:42:10.960 | how to come and start confronting some of those demons.

00:42:14.880 | And you think, man, why is the guy so successful?

00:42:18.060 | Like, I mean, and we haven't talked about

00:42:20.280 | all the stuff that I've done,

00:42:21.260 | but like I've seen a lot of success

00:42:24.580 | in both business leadership, athletics, academics,

00:42:29.580 | entrepreneurship, all these sorts of things, right?

00:42:34.140 | But if it wasn't for having kids

00:42:37.900 | and the same being in the position, I wouldn't be here.

00:42:41.660 | And that's just, that's the reality of it.

00:42:45.320 | And I'm learning to come and manage those as best I can,

00:42:50.320 | learning to meditate into those things

00:42:53.940 | and really feel what the driver is

00:42:55.800 | so I can get to those root understanding

00:42:59.340 | and having some guidance doing so.

00:43:01.200 | Like if you've got mental health issues,

00:43:03.240 | this isn't something that you need to tackle on your own.

00:43:05.820 | Like having a professional that can help guide you

00:43:08.040 | on that introspective journey is something like,

00:43:12.060 | it's not like, hey, I'm big tough guy,

00:43:14.920 | I can handle everything.

00:43:16.120 | - That's fascinating that you saved yourself.

00:43:22.120 | That's quite powerful to save yourself

00:43:26.440 | by having others depend on you.

00:43:28.440 | And so you can't fail, you can't fuck it up.

00:43:32.160 | And that's a reason to keep moving forward.

00:43:35.680 | But on the flip side, that's not addressing the darkness.

00:43:40.320 | - It's not.

00:43:41.380 | And it probably not a sustainable strategy either, right?

00:43:45.400 | So I recognize these things.

00:43:47.400 | - I don't know.

00:43:48.240 | Perhaps it is sustainable.

00:43:51.260 | Perhaps, I mean, there's something beautiful

00:43:53.320 | about giving yourself basically in service of others

00:43:58.320 | and thereby creating purpose.

00:44:02.720 | And then like, it's almost like fake it till you make it.

00:44:05.200 | And then you make it eventually.

00:44:06.960 | - That is purpose though.

00:44:08.120 | - That is purpose.

00:44:09.000 | - That is purpose.

00:44:09.840 | I mean, you have to, to me,

00:44:12.640 | life is about taking your cup

00:44:16.040 | and how you choose to pour it out,

00:44:17.600 | how you choose to give, what is your purpose?

00:44:20.720 | What is that connection with everybody around you?

00:44:22.880 | This is, that's the intent, that's the life.

00:44:26.800 | That's what life is about.

00:44:28.600 | How are you going to help those around you?

00:44:30.960 | How are you gonna help the world?

00:44:32.420 | Your purpose is right here, figuring out what this is

00:44:35.420 | and then how to do that.

00:44:37.580 | But at the same time, you can't let that run dry.

00:44:40.380 | So you have to make sure that you're filling that up.

00:44:44.100 | That's the other side, right?

00:44:46.380 | That's the other side.

00:44:48.180 | - We'll return to your engineering degree,

00:44:50.000 | which you're obviously scientifically engineering minded,

00:44:53.100 | which is fascinating.

00:44:54.140 | Your book is titled "The Eagle and the Dragon."

00:44:57.740 | What do the eagle and the dragon symbolize?

00:45:02.180 | - They're pretty big symbols for me.

00:45:03.780 | In fact, that covers my entire body as a tattoo.

00:45:07.420 | So the first one I had done at around 19 years old.

00:45:11.100 | And so this is, or started at 19.

00:45:13.280 | It's an eagle that covers my entire front,

00:45:18.300 | you know, my stomach, rib cage,

00:45:20.060 | and one that was on my back that covered most of my back.

00:45:22.780 | And there's chained at the, well, at the claw, I guess.

00:45:27.780 | And the chain wraps down around and attaches to my ankle.

00:45:32.140 | And there's a shackle there.

00:45:33.340 | And so this was something that I had done at that age

00:45:36.380 | because it was, to me, it was a representation

00:45:39.860 | of your potential, your strengths, your abilities,

00:45:44.340 | that you can fly to whatever height

00:45:46.520 | that you want in this world.

00:45:48.620 | The only thing holding you back

00:45:50.120 | at the end of the day is yourself.

00:45:52.980 | And this was, I hadn't necessarily accomplished

00:45:56.420 | a whole lot at that time.

00:45:57.420 | I mean, I was valedictorian for high school,

00:45:59.780 | small high school, does that even count?

00:46:02.920 | Yeah, I was a state level wrestler.

00:46:06.580 | This was my belief.

00:46:08.100 | And--

00:46:09.100 | - You sensed that there was a potential in you.

00:46:11.220 | And the only thing that could stop you

00:46:13.340 | from realizing that potential was yourself.

00:46:15.500 | - That's right.

00:46:16.900 | - That's a heck of a tattoo to get, by the way, at 19, but.

00:46:20.180 | - Yeah, yeah.

00:46:22.420 | About 40 hours went into that thing.

00:46:24.260 | - It shows you got some guts.

00:46:26.260 | - And then the next tattoo,

00:46:28.060 | so I only have two.

00:46:30.980 | I had done in 2015, 2016,

00:46:36.940 | when I, so at this point in my life.

00:46:40.200 | So I had done that.

00:46:41.140 | I had flown to whatever heights, right?

00:46:42.580 | So I had proven to myself

00:46:45.540 | and maybe done what I thought I needed to do

00:46:49.860 | to show the world that this poor kid from the sticks,

00:46:53.820 | this kid growing up in the mountains with nothing

00:46:57.260 | could achieve the American dream.

00:46:59.300 | I was a corporate executive sought after

00:47:02.300 | that I'd come in, I'd fix companies,

00:47:05.300 | I'd turn around and prep them for sale.

00:47:07.260 | I'd take a company and grow it from a regional

00:47:09.880 | to a national, to a global presence.

00:47:11.540 | I did this in the automotive manufacturing,

00:47:14.300 | aerospace manufacturing, high-tech, heavy industry.

00:47:18.060 | And I had a house with a white picket fence.

00:47:21.500 | I was a successful athlete with all time world records.

00:47:25.220 | I owned a gym on the side where I coached people

00:47:28.060 | and I had a comfortable marriage

00:47:32.620 | that everything was hunky-dory with no arguments at home.

00:47:35.920 | And I walked away from all of it.

00:47:39.600 | I left everything behind except for my kids.

00:47:43.760 | I wanted to chase what I was meant to do

00:47:53.060 | and chase what I was capable of doing.

00:47:55.440 | I wanted to become a better version of myself,

00:47:59.780 | but very intentfully.

00:48:01.580 | And that's what I did.

00:48:06.660 | I sold, I had multiple homes, sold my homes.

00:48:10.060 | I cashed in all my retirement that I'd earned

00:48:14.620 | for 20, nearly 20 years.

00:48:16.400 | And I lost all that.

00:48:19.540 | I leveraged myself millions of dollars of personal debt

00:48:22.800 | so that if I failed, there was no way out.

00:48:25.940 | Even going back to that old career that I did well,

00:48:28.880 | I'd be living in an apartment the rest of my life

00:48:31.260 | paying it off.

00:48:32.300 | People questioned, people questioned me at the time

00:48:35.320 | because I had a comfortable, easy marriage.

00:48:37.460 | And I chose to ask for a divorce.

00:48:41.520 | And I ended up living in an apartment for a couple years

00:48:46.020 | with no income, selling off every last thing that I had

00:48:50.280 | except for my two vehicles that I built.

00:48:52.720 | And with my kids.

00:48:54.680 | And I started my businesses to help people

00:49:00.540 | live a better quality of life, to get them out of pain,

00:49:03.940 | to help them live better through strength,

00:49:06.800 | to realize that stress, demand, those things,

00:49:11.500 | they don't have to be the thing that, if you look back,

00:49:14.940 | made you had the bad back, made you have the bad Ds,

00:49:17.180 | but they do the opposite.

00:49:18.220 | They get you out of pain.

00:49:19.180 | And then I started working on my book

00:49:20.700 | to hit on those other things, the mental, the emotional,

00:49:24.680 | maybe even spiritual.

00:49:26.440 | I don't touch on that one too much in there,

00:49:28.080 | but it's all the same.

00:49:29.420 | That things that happen around you to you,

00:49:34.600 | like maybe they're bad, I can't take away that,

00:49:37.720 | but why can't you use what you have of it

00:49:40.220 | to become a stronger and better person,

00:49:42.400 | to become more resilient, to be able to take the things

00:49:45.440 | that you don't know that are coming in the future.

00:49:47.700 | And so this is very intentful.

00:49:49.320 | And that's what the second,

00:49:51.280 | long-winded answer in your question here.

00:49:52.920 | - The dragon. - The dragon.

00:49:54.440 | The dragon is an Ouroboros.

00:49:56.120 | And so it circles my entire upper body,

00:49:59.680 | my shoulders, my back, my chest, everything.

00:50:01.720 | It's right here, there's this big dragon head,

00:50:04.360 | and its tail is right there in its mouth.

00:50:06.200 | It's eating itself.

00:50:08.040 | It may sound a bit graphic or whatever,

00:50:11.000 | but it's the eating of the old becoming the new.

00:50:14.860 | It is the purposeful reinvention of oneself.

00:50:18.140 | It is the deciding, not realizing just your potential,

00:50:22.180 | but deciding specifically who you want to be

00:50:24.960 | in this fucking world and becoming that person.

00:50:28.140 | - Can you comment on the value and the power

00:50:32.440 | of putting a flame to your old life, your old self,

00:50:37.440 | just destroying all of it as you walk into the new life?

00:50:44.920 | Did you have to do that?

00:50:47.840 | - I don't recommend this, by the way,

00:50:50.080 | because when you put yourself in no way out,

00:50:52.920 | there is no way out, okay?

00:50:55.680 | Like, you gotta really...

00:50:58.720 | But I can be an overconfident individual at times,

00:51:03.840 | and I live through extremes.

00:51:07.740 | I think it's a great way of actually finding

00:51:11.000 | your real values and how you want to live, honestly,

00:51:14.460 | to chase having absolutely perfect squat technique,

00:51:18.820 | but chase putting every freaking thing that you got in it,

00:51:21.420 | which most people would say, those are opposite.

00:51:24.020 | Those are diametrically opposed.

00:51:25.620 | I wanted a better home life.

00:51:30.580 | I wanted to do more in the world through my work.

00:51:33.020 | And the burning the bridges mentality

00:51:37.640 | is not necessarily the best.

00:51:41.580 | There was some temperament in that, though,

00:51:43.580 | because I was slow to make the shift for a long time

00:51:47.920 | because I'd been thinking about doing it,

00:51:50.220 | but I was thinking about doing it

00:51:51.420 | in a healthcare perspective.

00:51:52.540 | I'm gonna go back to school to be a surgeon

00:51:54.140 | or a physical therapist or a chiro,

00:51:55.660 | because that's where all my research and stuff

00:51:57.920 | was in this human movement and rehab and recovery.

00:52:02.020 | This is the mentors that I'd been developing

00:52:04.460 | were the best in the world in these things,

00:52:06.680 | in these disciplines.

00:52:07.660 | Those were my friends.

00:52:10.860 | But I wasn't able to compromise my family's

00:52:15.100 | certain quality of life.

00:52:15.980 | I wanted to keep that.

00:52:16.980 | So it was slow and hard for me to make that transition,

00:52:19.500 | but I didn't do it until I had a platform built enough

00:52:23.760 | that those first few years, I did have an income.

00:52:26.540 | I was able to make enough from the business

00:52:28.060 | until it grew so fast that I needed,

00:52:30.740 | so much more needed to come in.

00:52:32.180 | The living in the apartment piece and doing all that,

00:52:33.980 | that was actually a couple of years

00:52:35.220 | into that process, maybe like two years.

00:52:40.020 | - Well, I'm with you on that.

00:52:41.100 | So I'm actually going through that very process now.

00:52:44.260 | I put everything, I quit everything,

00:52:46.920 | gave away everything and starting anew.

00:52:49.100 | And unfortunately or fortunately,

00:52:52.020 | this podcast somehow became quite popular.

00:52:56.940 | So it's getting in the way of my burning everything

00:52:59.380 | to the ground.

00:53:00.220 | (laughing)

00:53:01.260 | But in that, it's a source of joy.

00:53:03.800 | But the main thing I'm after is the similar project

00:53:07.220 | as you is building a business.

00:53:09.740 | Sense of joy.

00:53:10.820 | So this is the point I want to drive home right now.

00:53:14.380 | Right now.

00:53:15.700 | Because when I say burn,

00:53:16.680 | I learned the burning the bridges works

00:53:18.300 | because that's how I had to succeed when I was earlier.

00:53:23.300 | The bridges weren't burnt, they didn't exist.

00:53:26.100 | There was no couch to go home to.

00:53:27.700 | There was no fallback plan.

00:53:29.980 | And it forced me and gave me the confidence

00:53:32.100 | to know that I can pull it off.

00:53:33.620 | But I don't encourage people

00:53:37.180 | because there's so much out there of this hustle porn

00:53:39.660 | and other stuff going, just grind, just go after it,

00:53:42.180 | get in and start your, you'll get there.

00:53:45.300 | And it's all about the output, to make money,

00:53:47.540 | to be somebody, to do this.

00:53:48.980 | And I'll tell you what,

00:53:50.560 | that is some short-term motivation right there.

00:53:52.900 | I feel like dropping a few swear words, but.

00:53:55.100 | (laughing)

00:53:56.660 | You're always welcome.

00:53:57.700 | We've already done a few, so we'll.

00:54:00.060 | All right, we'll bounce it out.

00:54:01.660 | That is short-term.

00:54:04.780 | That is not going to keep you going.

00:54:06.660 | This needs, if you're going to go that approach,

00:54:08.860 | it needs to be because this is your North Star.

00:54:12.540 | There's going to be so much hard work.

00:54:14.400 | There's going to be years of just pushing through

00:54:17.340 | where your quest, not only is everybody around you

00:54:19.940 | questioning you and your family's questioning you,

00:54:21.860 | you're questioning yourself going,

00:54:23.420 | man, I don't know if I can pull this off.

00:54:25.620 | You're going to be stressed.

00:54:26.620 | You're going to be pulled to the max.

00:54:28.160 | If somebody comes up to me and says,

00:54:29.740 | should I start a business?

00:54:30.900 | I'm going to say no.

00:54:32.000 | And they'll be like, oh, you're supposed to motivate me.

00:54:36.120 | If you need me to motivate you,

00:54:37.620 | this is the wrong damn approach for you.

00:54:39.500 | This is going to be hard.

00:54:41.380 | This is going to be harder than you expect,

00:54:42.860 | even with me telling you this.

00:54:45.220 | And so it better damn well be worth it.

00:54:49.800 | This better be your North fucking star.

00:54:51.980 | This better live and be a way for you

00:54:55.460 | to be able to articulate or realize

00:54:58.800 | those values that you want to live.

00:55:01.900 | This isn't something to make money.

00:55:04.260 | This is a way for you to live the life

00:55:06.940 | and be able to share the values

00:55:08.820 | that you have with the world.

00:55:11.520 | And that's what it is.

00:55:12.440 | And if you don't have that, which is going to give you joy,

00:55:15.660 | then freaking walk away.

00:55:19.300 | - Yeah.

00:55:20.420 | - This is not some way to make some money and be known.

00:55:23.620 | - I mean, this includes both like simple day-to-day joy

00:55:26.940 | and also deep meaning.

00:55:28.380 | The whole thing.

00:55:30.380 | And then that allows you to overcome

00:55:31.980 | all the pain along the way.

00:55:34.260 | But I got to say, I mean, it's a difficult thing

00:55:37.180 | 'cause you run a business.

00:55:38.480 | This podcast and a lot of things I do research-wise

00:55:43.460 | is full of joy, but it's simple.

00:55:46.360 | Running a business is hard.

00:55:49.220 | So it's something that I'm very hesitant about

00:55:55.620 | in that to almost push back a little bit,

00:55:58.620 | I think if I do get the guts to start the business,

00:56:04.500 | it will not be because I'm not choosing a more joyful life

00:56:08.220 | 'cause I'm already truly happy.

00:56:10.360 | The reason I'll choose is because I just can't help it.

00:56:14.420 | There's this, I've always had this dream

00:56:16.420 | and I know it's gonna lead to suffering

00:56:19.780 | and I know it's gonna be a life

00:56:22.820 | that has less happiness in it.

00:56:24.420 | As sad as this to say.

00:56:25.780 | - But it won't be.

00:56:28.460 | It won't be less happiness.

00:56:30.120 | Because we talk about this cup

00:56:32.820 | and where you choose to pour it

00:56:34.700 | and what you choose to do with it.

00:56:36.220 | And when you look back on things,

00:56:38.020 | the things that are gonna give you the most joy,

00:56:40.620 | the most proud, the things that are gonna stand out

00:56:43.180 | in your life that you really remember

00:56:45.380 | are gonna be those days.

00:56:47.900 | And those years you struggle,

00:56:50.460 | you're gonna look back on 10 years later and go,

00:56:54.060 | fuck, those were the glory days.

00:56:57.220 | Those were the glory days.

00:56:59.780 | And it won't feel like it at the time.

00:57:02.580 | - That's so weird.

00:57:03.420 | - That's what life's made of.

00:57:04.580 | And so this is your opportunity, you feel that.

00:57:07.940 | So right now you got this, when you think about it,

00:57:10.340 | you got this little thing twisting up in your gut.

00:57:12.900 | It's like it's a mixture of anxiety and fear

00:57:16.260 | as well as excitement.

00:57:18.300 | And that is, that's your signal

00:57:20.340 | that this is your opportunity for that personal growth,

00:57:23.020 | to challenge yourself.

00:57:24.060 | This is your going for a run or working out in the heat.

00:57:26.980 | It's those things.

00:57:29.080 | It is your opportunity to go,

00:57:31.900 | heck, maybe it even fails.

00:57:33.580 | Maybe it even fails.

00:57:35.500 | But by turning into that, you're gonna learn so much

00:57:39.300 | and it's gonna make you so much better.

00:57:41.700 | And it's the path that you should take

00:57:43.060 | when you have this stuff rolling around in there.

00:57:47.100 | And I don't, it could just be a hard conversation

00:57:50.780 | with your partner or your boss.

00:57:52.980 | It could be taking on a project that,

00:57:56.820 | your boss has thrown out to the team and you're like,

00:58:00.740 | oh, I'm gonna hide in the back, I don't want that one.

00:58:03.220 | And it's like, maybe, maybe you do.

00:58:05.660 | Maybe it's going back to school.

00:58:07.260 | Maybe it's making that career move that you always wanted,

00:58:10.620 | but you're just afraid of.

00:58:12.840 | All these things are your opportunity

00:58:19.060 | for you to turn into that.

00:58:21.360 | It is your workout.

00:58:22.380 | It is your practice.

00:58:24.140 | Because if you don't, you'll get soft.

00:58:26.820 | And who knows what's coming

00:58:27.980 | and you're not gonna be ready for it.

00:58:30.020 | And it's gonna run right over the top of you

00:58:32.300 | because you're gonna be weak.

00:58:34.980 | You're gonna be soft.

00:58:36.980 | - There's some aspect in which choosing that hard path

00:58:39.460 | is actually the way to arrive

00:58:42.540 | at the richest kind of happiness.

00:58:44.420 | The greatest fulfillment.

00:58:47.820 | That's the funny thing about just the human--

00:58:49.900 | - Just make sure you're filling the cup

00:58:51.140 | as you're going through it, not pouring it all out.

00:58:53.020 | So that's the part to figure out, right?

00:58:55.540 | - Sure.

00:58:56.380 | Well, life is short anyway.

00:58:59.460 | Eventually the cup will be empty.

00:59:01.800 | So maybe time the refilling of the cup correctly

00:59:06.780 | so you maximize the little time you got.

00:59:10.460 | Let me talk to you about strength a little bit.

00:59:13.100 | First, high level.

00:59:14.820 | What are the differences

00:59:15.860 | in the different disciplines of strength?

00:59:17.260 | So powerlifting we talked about.

00:59:19.700 | Maybe just to clarify for people,

00:59:21.300 | powerlifting, Olympic lifting,

00:59:23.580 | just regular gym fitness, bodybuilding,

00:59:28.300 | doing curls in front of the mirror for hours like I do.

00:59:31.060 | What's the difference between all of these?

00:59:32.820 | Oh, and also strongman.

00:59:34.820 | - Every one of those as far as the athletic disciplines

00:59:39.500 | are different qualities.

00:59:41.940 | So we wanna think about things as terms of quality.

00:59:44.860 | So there's strength, there's power, there's endurance,

00:59:49.860 | there's the ability to be coordinated and athletic.

00:59:54.780 | There's all these things and they're different qualities.

00:59:58.020 | So your training as it relates to that

01:00:00.300 | is how you cycle in the development of those qualities.

01:00:05.300 | What we wanna think about is,

01:00:06.700 | there's a lot of different frames of thought.

01:00:08.660 | Some very classical, maybe not classical Russian approach

01:00:13.100 | 'cause there's a lot of different approach

01:00:14.140 | from the Eastern block.

01:00:15.260 | But one of the ones is developing all the qualities at once,

01:00:18.740 | focusing on building those.

01:00:20.980 | More of a periodization effect

01:00:22.580 | would be focusing on one quality at a time

01:00:27.180 | or one quality while maintaining other qualities

01:00:30.860 | and then shifting that around.

01:00:32.180 | So it's just gonna be a little different

01:00:34.060 | based on what the output is and what the desired.

01:00:37.020 | So like powerlifting is actually, power is the wrong word.

01:00:40.580 | There's actually no power in it.

01:00:41.900 | It's just brute, it's strength.

01:00:44.340 | Application of force.

01:00:47.700 | So Olympic lifting would actually be a better name

01:00:50.260 | for powerlifting because that is more explosive development.

01:00:54.700 | There's strongman is again,

01:00:58.100 | now we're getting a little bit more athletic.

01:00:59.860 | It's equipment based on the implements

01:01:02.220 | and stuff that are used,

01:01:03.500 | how fast you can move your feet and run

01:01:05.980 | mixed with more endurance, but still very strength focused.

01:01:09.860 | And there's some things with strongman that is straight.

01:01:11.540 | Like each one of these is very also focused

01:01:14.340 | on different genetic dispositions.

01:01:17.980 | So actually if you look at the history of sports,

01:01:20.260 | you'll find that they're a lot of times

01:01:22.160 | based on different populations.

01:01:24.460 | It sounds like it's very un-PC, but like Highland Games,

01:01:28.300 | they've got deeper hip sockets that are shallow.

01:01:31.140 | So you're gonna see a lot of short hip hinge movements

01:01:33.340 | like the caber toss and things like that.

01:01:36.180 | Muay Thai wrestling,

01:01:37.620 | they've got a completely different hip joint.

01:01:40.140 | And so strongman itself is gonna be

01:01:42.040 | for very large frame individuals.

01:01:43.740 | If you're not well over six foot and a large person,

01:01:46.360 | you're probably not going to perform well.

01:01:47.860 | Very few people at sub six foot

01:01:49.540 | have ever done well at strongman

01:01:50.960 | just because it's leverage based.

01:01:54.180 | Olympic lifting, we see consistently in Europe,

01:01:59.180 | the history tells us a high level of hip and back issues

01:02:04.460 | because of the depth that that hip socket has to go in

01:02:09.500 | to be able to complete that lift.

01:02:11.620 | And so you're gonna see issues with populations

01:02:14.000 | that don't have the ability to do that.

01:02:15.820 | So we've talked a little bit about training

01:02:18.820 | as well as disposition.

01:02:20.660 | - Yeah, and also cross-fit isn't to that.

01:02:23.060 | That's more like strongman,

01:02:24.300 | but for a wider variety of bodies, I suppose.

01:02:27.420 | - Yep, and definitely more metabolic conditioning focused

01:02:30.060 | than the strength aspect of it.

01:02:32.380 | And conditioning is an interesting thing too.

01:02:36.460 | So that quality, in my opinion,

01:02:38.740 | can be developed a lot faster,

01:02:41.240 | but kind of peaks much faster as well.

01:02:43.580 | So where strength, we can continue to add and add

01:02:47.580 | and add over time.

01:02:49.220 | So it's, for me, for conditioning with any strength athlete,

01:02:53.700 | I don't like to spend as much time on that.

01:02:56.020 | So I'll cycle the conditioning work

01:02:58.740 | for our strength athletes

01:03:00.380 | and then taper that off leading into meet.

01:03:02.820 | So the more metabolic work,

01:03:04.780 | that means the more capacity in strength training

01:03:07.100 | that you can accomplish, which is the goal,

01:03:09.540 | and recover from.

01:03:12.240 | But then as we lead to a competition,

01:03:14.180 | we want to spend more time on recovering from that.

01:03:16.780 | So we have to pull things out, so we'd pull out less.

01:03:18.720 | So a typical approach would be taking a six week cycle

01:03:23.220 | for conditioning and ramping up

01:03:26.320 | over three weeks periods time,

01:03:27.580 | then dropping back down again,

01:03:29.500 | and ramping up and being slightly offset

01:03:31.660 | by a week or two from your strength peaks,

01:03:34.300 | so that you've actually tapered the week prior

01:03:36.140 | in your conditioning work to your strength work.

01:03:38.700 | And but that way we're not hitting conditioning hard

01:03:40.700 | all the time, which is a common misstep that people make,

01:03:44.580 | is going, well, I need conditioning.

01:03:46.000 | So they just hammer that at a base level over the top

01:03:49.340 | instead of cycling that.

01:03:50.880 | - If we talk about power lifting,

01:03:53.880 | in terms of regimen,

01:03:56.840 | in terms of exercise, in terms of the process,

01:04:02.180 | the wood consistent with what,

01:04:04.480 | is there something to be said about general qualities

01:04:07.140 | of the consistency of the regimen required to get strong?

01:04:10.260 | - Yes.

01:04:11.160 | So let's talk about some training principles as a whole.

01:04:16.160 | And this will, I think this will break down

01:04:19.640 | what you're wanting.

01:04:21.220 | The more work that we can fit into a given time,

01:04:25.140 | the more progress we're going to make.

01:04:27.940 | But that doesn't mean doing the max amount of work possible

01:04:32.120 | at any given time.

01:04:33.600 | So we know that we're always, to accomplish more,

01:04:38.300 | we're always gonna have more.

01:04:39.660 | And there's a certain ceiling

01:04:40.820 | that you're gonna hit

01:04:41.660 | that you're not gonna be able to add more.

01:04:43.060 | So you wanna start and get the most amount of results

01:04:46.080 | that you can with the least amount of work,

01:04:48.880 | because you're gonna have to do it again,

01:04:52.300 | like this stair step over and over, year, decade, so on.

01:04:56.500 | So when people, this is a big miss people got,

01:04:58.700 | they look at a Chico program from Russia or so on,

01:05:02.180 | and they go, I'm gonna follow this.

01:05:05.060 | And it's like, that was specifically written

01:05:06.740 | for somebody with 20 years of experience,

01:05:09.640 | that's already built the capacities to be at that level.

01:05:12.260 | So it's all about building that work capacity.

01:05:14.220 | So how much work can you give in a given time?

01:05:15.820 | So now we wanna look at some research

01:05:18.360 | as it relates to injuries,

01:05:20.660 | because injuries are gonna be a big driver over time

01:05:23.780 | of what holds you back.

01:05:25.900 | So when we talk consistency,

01:05:27.960 | training hard for three years, five years,

01:05:32.620 | it's gonna be really good.

01:05:33.500 | But what we find is a lot of people train really hard

01:05:35.620 | for nine months, have to slow back for a month,

01:05:38.660 | get back into it and miss another week because,

01:05:41.040 | and so on, they're always like this little nagging,

01:05:42.840 | that little nagging.

01:05:44.360 | And so it's pretty clear in the research,

01:05:47.680 | we're looking at when we're stair stepping this stuff,

01:05:50.340 | we're looking at acute and chronic loading.

01:05:53.980 | So some fancy words for average

01:05:56.920 | and like what's happening right now.

01:05:59.180 | So this given week would be our acute,

01:06:01.800 | chronic would be what is our average loading,

01:06:03.920 | let's say over the last six months.

01:06:06.000 | Okay, so the more that we can move the chronic loading up,

01:06:10.300 | the more work we're getting done on as a whole over time,

01:06:13.200 | we're gonna get stronger.

01:06:14.560 | The way that we build the capacity to do that

01:06:17.040 | is having spikes in acute loading.

01:06:19.560 | Okay, now, as we do this,

01:06:23.520 | the acute loading, if it spikes more than 10,

01:06:28.500 | maybe 15% from what the chronic loading has been,

01:06:34.240 | that accounts for 80% of injuries out there.

01:06:37.940 | So it's not actually the movement quality

01:06:41.840 | or this misstep or the other.

01:06:44.120 | It usually happens about four, five, six weeks later.

01:06:47.040 | It's like, oh, this nagging, and then it gets worse.

01:06:48.840 | And then now you gotta do some rehab,

01:06:50.880 | your training sessions aren't as good and so on.

01:06:53.360 | So now we're starting to look at this.

01:06:54.640 | Okay, it's like, I wanna do the least amount of work

01:06:58.600 | where I can still progress.

01:07:00.820 | I want to be able to have spikes in my weekly demand

01:07:04.560 | that don't go above 10 to 15%

01:07:09.080 | of what I've been averaging for the last month.

01:07:11.280 | But every time I do a spike, my average goes up, right?

01:07:14.280 | Boom, boom, boom.

01:07:16.340 | And then that becomes very particular

01:07:18.200 | also when you do take planned time off.

01:07:21.560 | So a lot of people, training session,

01:07:24.400 | maybe they're doing a five-week block with a deload week,

01:07:27.760 | or you go on vacation for a week,

01:07:29.640 | or any of those things that were a downward.

01:07:32.440 | What does that do to your average and chronic loading?

01:07:34.280 | It brings it down.

01:07:35.200 | And then what does the person wanna do when they come back?

01:07:37.520 | Make up for it.

01:07:39.040 | Now they have a huge spike above, five weeks later,

01:07:41.840 | we're dealing with, oh, this elbow, this wrist,

01:07:44.120 | whatever's kind of bothering me,

01:07:45.240 | and now you're not performing as much.

01:07:47.640 | So these are some really fundamental pieces of training.

01:07:52.080 | And then now we can start overlaying the qualities

01:07:54.740 | that we're trying to develop

01:07:56.040 | that we were talking about earlier.

01:07:57.240 | So now it's, let's talk about my deadlift,

01:08:00.640 | my thousand pound deadlift.

01:08:01.840 | We'll talk about the training cycles for both,

01:08:03.280 | the thousand deadlift and squat.

01:08:06.000 | So backing up a year out from the deadlift,

01:08:09.160 | knowing I was training at the time,

01:08:11.200 | heavy deadlifts once a week.

01:08:13.720 | And usually it was two of those sessions a month

01:08:16.080 | were really heavy and the others weren't.

01:08:17.680 | And it's like, okay, how can we get this up

01:08:19.880 | to where I'm deadlifting twice a week?

01:08:21.840 | Because that's where I wanna be,

01:08:25.860 | to be able to accomplish this.

01:08:26.920 | I need to be loading about that much with frequency

01:08:29.840 | with a certain volume to be able to accomplish this goal.

01:08:31.980 | We're not gonna go through all the math and stuff like that

01:08:33.800 | and how that's arrived, but there is math behind this.

01:08:37.120 | And so instead of just like,

01:08:39.080 | oh, well, let's start deadlifting twice a week.

01:08:40.980 | No.

01:08:41.940 | So we start and we take the one session that we've got

01:08:46.240 | and we split it, part of it,

01:08:48.360 | take part of it away and put it

01:08:49.640 | in the second half of the week.

01:08:50.800 | So the total volume is still the same.

01:08:53.220 | And then we start adding some volume,

01:08:56.900 | but I'm doing it at a off a block

01:08:58.960 | so that the actual load is,

01:09:01.000 | accumulative load is less

01:09:02.160 | 'cause I have less range of motion.

01:09:04.400 | And then we start building that closer to the ground,

01:09:06.700 | closer to the ground and so on.

01:09:08.340 | And now we start getting to where I'm almost doing

01:09:10.400 | two sessions, full sessions a week.

01:09:12.680 | And then we start adding a little bit of load.

01:09:16.280 | And so at my level,

01:09:17.400 | this isn't talking about adding another set

01:09:20.200 | or another day a week.

01:09:22.120 | We're talking like in my squat, it might be one rep.

01:09:26.600 | Instead of doing three sets of three,

01:09:29.500 | at one week I do two doubles or two triples,

01:09:32.680 | then two doubles to give me one more rep.

01:09:36.800 | That's it.

01:09:37.640 | And so we're doing that from one week to the next.

01:09:40.520 | And that's a cycle, training cycle.

01:09:41.800 | It might be five, six weeks and then so on.

01:09:43.320 | And then next one and slowly bringing that average load up.

01:09:47.280 | So the last phases of the squat, for example,

01:09:50.940 | we took the average loading every week.

01:09:52.740 | So my, of my heavy sets.

01:09:54.200 | So once we developed all this stuff over the last year

01:09:57.200 | to get to this point, now it is taking and going,

01:10:02.200 | okay, my average load this week is eight reps at 955 pounds.

01:10:07.340 | And then the next week, let's get it to 957, 963.

01:10:10.340 | And this was pretty aggressive,

01:10:14.800 | working up to where my average loading, the final,

01:10:17.200 | that at the final was 985 pounds,

01:10:20.120 | average load for eight to nine reps.

01:10:22.080 | And that's what I said, this is the intense part.

01:10:23.600 | That was why it was the day of was much easier.

01:10:25.800 | That week over week is pretty brutal.

01:10:28.900 | May not sound well, you're just squatting.

01:10:32.200 | And now let's back it up.

01:10:33.040 | Let's look at the quality development.

01:10:34.720 | So a year out from the squat,

01:10:36.520 | obviously I've been working on developing

01:10:39.080 | axial load capacity,

01:10:40.200 | my capacity to withstand load from top to bottom.

01:10:44.040 | So I like thinking about things in movement vectors.

01:10:46.580 | So this vector is an axial loaded vector,

01:10:49.000 | is the hardest to recover from.

01:10:51.280 | - So what's axial?

01:10:52.280 | So like is deadlift, are they both?

01:10:54.600 | - They're both, yep.

01:10:56.000 | So a horizontal, a front to back

01:10:58.880 | would be like a row or a press.

01:11:01.040 | - Why is the axial hardest to recover from?

01:11:03.960 | 'Cause it's the entire body, the entire torso?

01:11:05.440 | - Entire body, just anything that is,

01:11:07.440 | that taxes the spinal mechanics.

01:11:11.040 | I don't, I could tell you my beliefs.

01:11:14.060 | It's studied, it is, okay?

01:11:16.320 | We can just keep the discussion on that short like that.

01:11:19.880 | So we start looking at those different vectors

01:11:24.040 | that we're training in.

01:11:24.920 | So this is why, this is important to understand.

01:11:27.600 | So I'm not just getting into nuance here.

01:11:29.380 | So, hey, squatting is gonna make me jump further

01:11:33.200 | 'cause it's legs.

01:11:34.640 | Well, squatting is an axial load vector

01:11:37.360 | and jumping is a vector this way.

01:11:40.440 | So actually hip thrust would help with your,

01:11:44.400 | and this is proven in science,

01:11:45.920 | with your forward jumping ability.

01:11:48.360 | They're both working similar muscles, the glute extension,

01:11:51.280 | but they're working it in those different platforms.

01:11:54.160 | So it's really important to understand

01:11:55.680 | because people don't understand.

01:11:57.220 | I'm building my work capacity by doing sled pushes.

01:12:00.500 | You're not developing your work capacity for squatting.

01:12:04.180 | - Most movements, even ones as holistic as a squat,

01:12:09.180 | require specialization.

01:12:12.080 | - Yeah.

01:12:12.900 | - You can't get strong at the squat by doing--

01:12:15.000 | - You're gonna have some carry over, right, obviously.

01:12:17.560 | But because taking an untrained person that hasn't done it

01:12:21.160 | is still not gonna do as good as somebody

01:12:23.400 | that's done nonspecific work but done work.

01:12:26.280 | So, but yes, for the most part.

01:12:28.080 | - To get truly strong, you need to specialize.

01:12:30.560 | - So, but not all the time.

01:12:32.920 | So now we talk about quality.

01:12:34.360 | So, and if we specialize in the same thing too long,

01:12:37.280 | we stagnate because the body adapts to a certain point

01:12:40.160 | and just can't make progress.

01:12:41.800 | So we wanted to save the actual squatting

01:12:44.560 | in the pattern with the bar that I was doing

01:12:46.760 | for the very end.

01:12:48.600 | So starting a year out,

01:12:50.880 | I started doing work front squatting.

01:12:53.760 | Like a squat, axial loaded pattern,

01:12:55.680 | and worked on maximizing that up.

01:12:58.040 | Then I started shifting to doing transformer bar squat.

01:13:03.000 | It's this bar I developed that actually changed,

01:13:05.040 | manipulates spinal mechanics.

01:13:06.520 | So I started loading in these more forward positions

01:13:09.600 | and being able, again, so now I'm getting closer

01:13:11.980 | than a front squat but not quite squatting.

01:13:13.920 | And then I would start adjusting that bar

01:13:16.360 | every training cycle to closer to a squat,

01:13:18.480 | toaster to a squat till it finally was, right?

01:13:20.960 | - What's the difference between a front squat

01:13:22.520 | and a regular, like a back squat?

01:13:24.960 | Like in terms of the stress on the body, the mechanics,

01:13:29.520 | was there something interesting to be said about,

01:13:31.760 | like how fundamentally different are they?

01:13:34.100 | - So it's interesting, people think about the weight

01:13:36.320 | in position to them, like, oh, the bar's in front of me,

01:13:38.920 | the bar's behind me, which is not the case.

01:13:41.460 | The bar is above your midfoot.

01:13:45.120 | The load is above your midfoot.

01:13:46.900 | So we're actually manipulating the spine behind the bar.

01:13:52.280 | So we're causing spinal uprighting behind the bar,

01:13:54.920 | getting in a more erect position,

01:13:56.400 | which is gonna change the relationship of the hip angle,

01:13:59.600 | it's gonna change our ability to maintain the spine,

01:14:02.280 | it's going to change how much the core comes in,

01:14:06.360 | how hard it is to maintain that sternum

01:14:08.960 | to diaphragm relationship that we talked about.

01:14:11.240 | All this stuff starts changing.

01:14:12.960 | - So the bar stays in the same place.

01:14:14.640 | The bar's still behind you, but the load moves around.

01:14:17.880 | But we're actually manipulating the spine around the load.

01:14:21.000 | - It's incredible.

01:14:23.080 | - We can tailor it to an athlete,

01:14:24.720 | which is great when you got a seven foot plus tall

01:14:26.880 | baseball player or a basketball player.

01:14:28.760 | That's why we work with all these teams.

01:14:30.120 | Anyway, so it's like you're taking something

01:14:31.960 | and getting closer and closer to it.

01:14:33.500 | At the same time, we're looking at the qualities.

01:14:35.320 | So like, I needed to be able to really hold

01:14:37.960 | this torso position with the weight moving up here.

01:14:40.000 | Now, unlike the deadlift, the ability to manage

01:14:41.960 | this TL position becomes much more challenging.

01:14:45.160 | So that was also why I was choosing the transformer bar,

01:14:48.360 | because it actually challenges that more

01:14:50.160 | in those big forward positions.

01:14:51.800 | I was also working on my back strength tremendously

01:14:54.840 | to be able to hold and maintain position.

01:14:56.840 | So there was a lot of like, I chose a bent over rows.

01:15:00.480 | So bent over row is a mixed vector.

01:15:02.340 | So it's a forward to back.

01:15:03.640 | So it wouldn't have as much carrier,

01:15:04.920 | but it's also got some axial loading component

01:15:09.120 | in it as well.

01:15:10.600 | So we're working on that.

01:15:12.200 | And then as we get closer and closer to competition,

01:15:14.960 | I'm developing those strengths,

01:15:15.900 | but now I need to start tapering those out.

01:15:18.120 | So all of my recovery needs can now go into

01:15:20.600 | the more specific that I'm actually ramping the load up.

01:15:24.080 | So as I'm ramping the load on the weight,

01:15:27.080 | I'm able to ramp it a lot faster

01:15:29.040 | because I'm tapering out the other stuff.

01:15:30.760 | So I can still keep my total load high,

01:15:34.080 | but now get it very, very specific.

01:15:36.060 | - Wow.

01:15:38.120 | - So everything that I've done has always been

01:15:38.960 | kind of an annual training cycle.

01:15:40.800 | And then again, this was like a,

01:15:42.400 | this was a five-year training cycle,

01:15:43.760 | but we just kind of walked through the last year of each

01:15:45.980 | and you can see how these concepts play out in reality.

01:15:49.880 | - So in the cycling, so this is both for you,

01:15:53.160 | but also for more recreational strength athletes,

01:15:58.160 | let's say there's variety injected into the system.

01:16:01.440 | - You need variety.

01:16:02.520 | Yeah, yeah.

01:16:04.200 | Because you will basically stagnate at some level, right?

01:16:07.720 | So you should always be kind of shifting a little bit.

01:16:10.540 | So three to four month blocks in general for an average,

01:16:14.640 | you know, just a gen pop fitness is pretty good.

01:16:17.920 | Where you're going to spend more time,

01:16:20.640 | maybe in a higher rep range or lower rep range,

01:16:22.620 | a little bit more work on endurance capacity,

01:16:26.080 | or maybe some more time,

01:16:26.920 | hey, I'm playing around with boxing or jujitsu

01:16:29.360 | or something like that.

01:16:30.200 | Bring that a little bit more to the front,

01:16:31.560 | forefront for a while and bring the other out.

01:16:33.180 | But like mixing those variables up,

01:16:36.560 | but trying to keep the total load the same

01:16:38.400 | and always kind of like, do we add a little more?

01:16:41.680 | Again, it doesn't have to be major

01:16:42.720 | and it shouldn't be major.

01:16:43.600 | You don't want these big jumps.

01:16:44.680 | You don't go, oh my God, let's move.

01:16:48.160 | Let's jump into squatting every day.

01:16:50.000 | You've got to build the capacity to do that.

01:16:54.200 | It's simple.

01:16:55.560 | - What role would you say strength has

01:16:58.840 | in sports that combine skill and strength?

01:17:01.620 | So for me personally, maybe I'll just ask it selfishly,

01:17:04.600 | which is grappling, wrestling, MMA.

01:17:09.280 | - Yeah.

01:17:10.360 | How about I start with baseball?

01:17:11.960 | - Please.

01:17:14.080 | - No, I would.

01:17:15.120 | - Okay.

01:17:15.960 | - I know the sport.

01:17:17.800 | - Baseball and golf are two of my favorite sports.

01:17:21.240 | No, you don't have to be in shape at all

01:17:24.400 | to excel at those sports.

01:17:25.520 | - Well, here's the thing.

01:17:26.880 | - There we go.

01:17:27.720 | We're gonna get this argument.

01:17:29.780 | - Well, I've got a perfect example

01:17:31.560 | because this is why I sell so many transformer bars

01:17:34.440 | into the major league baseball.

01:17:36.280 | So they get these people that come in, these athletes,

01:17:40.080 | that have been baseball their whole life.

01:17:42.880 | It is part of the culture.

01:17:44.680 | And so they're great athletes.

01:17:46.360 | They've got all the skill.

01:17:47.920 | The only thing they have to do

01:17:50.160 | is develop a little bit more resilience

01:17:53.160 | so that they don't have the injury.

01:17:54.780 | They can push their training a little bit more.

01:17:56.800 | That we can add a little bit more force output

01:17:59.680 | and be able to recover from it.

01:18:01.720 | So the only thing they've got to do

01:18:03.880 | is add some training,

01:18:04.840 | but there's no training culture there.

01:18:06.520 | So they don't have any experience,

01:18:07.560 | which is why they love the transformer bar

01:18:10.020 | because they don't have to worry

01:18:10.920 | about teaching the technique.

01:18:11.920 | We can actually set the bar on a setting

01:18:13.280 | that makes their squats perfect

01:18:14.600 | by queuing all the stuff

01:18:15.560 | with actually not having to coach it.

01:18:17.320 | Because when you're coaching a room full of athletes,

01:18:19.440 | it's really hard to teach the nuance of all this

01:18:21.600 | and not sure that all that.

01:18:22.960 | But that's all that they have to do with these players

01:18:25.920 | with a huge level of skill.

01:18:27.360 | So once you reach a certain level of skill,

01:18:29.880 | adding strength is the only real forward path.

01:18:34.820 | So that's the basic simple answer to that.

01:18:38.760 | - So one of the benefits there

01:18:40.680 | being like injury prevention actually.

01:18:42.400 | - Injury prevention, resilience.

01:18:44.040 | Because especially fighting sports,

01:18:47.000 | you're going to be challenged and thrown

01:18:49.160 | and other things happen to you.

01:18:50.600 | And the more resilient you can make your structures,

01:18:53.440 | the better you're gonna be.

01:18:54.640 | Even a cyclist, mountain biking.

01:18:57.040 | Why would they need it?

01:18:57.920 | Why would they need to do upper body training?

01:18:59.420 | Take a crash, your shoulder's gone.

01:19:01.160 | You're done, your career's over.

01:19:04.040 | Unless you've done a little training.

01:19:05.840 | So there's value in all this stuff,

01:19:09.040 | but the resilience is like, that's huge.

01:19:12.400 | And then we can overlay strength.

01:19:14.040 | Where we miss is this focus on strength

01:19:17.240 | when we haven't developed quality motor patterns first.

01:19:20.600 | So this is a huge thing with children

01:19:23.720 | because people wanna know

01:19:24.560 | what's the appropriate training age.

01:19:26.960 | I'd have had my daughter training before my son

01:19:29.580 | because she developed movement patterns

01:19:31.780 | that have better quality earlier.

01:19:33.300 | There's no age because it's gonna be

01:19:34.660 | very dependent on the individual.

01:19:37.220 | There's no point in having adaptation

01:19:38.780 | if we don't have the right thing to adapt to yet.

01:19:41.220 | - And that applies to general movement, but also to sport.

01:19:44.060 | So you're saying the skills should be developed first

01:19:46.620 | and then the strength applied on top of that.

01:19:48.220 | - Yep.

01:19:49.300 | - Maybe you can educate me,

01:19:50.900 | but I actually quit lifting and power lifting

01:19:55.700 | for a long time after I started judo,

01:20:00.360 | jiu-jitsu, grappling, all this sort of combat sports

01:20:04.240 | because I found that it was preventing me

01:20:08.280 | from relaxing my body enough to load in the skill.

01:20:13.280 | - So this isn't a problem with the training.

01:20:20.900 | This is a problem with you.

01:20:22.160 | - Yeah.

01:20:23.000 | So this is actually really, really important.

01:20:25.800 | The first product I ever released was a loadable mace,

01:20:30.800 | a swinging mace.

01:20:33.040 | And because every power lifter and body,

01:20:35.720 | well, not every, but most serious power lifters

01:20:38.560 | and bodybuilders, like shoulders,

01:20:41.160 | mobility is pretty limited.

01:20:44.400 | And most of them really, really struggle with this.

01:20:47.360 | The problem is they've been taught

01:20:49.160 | to have tension all the time.

01:20:52.480 | And that's not good.

01:20:53.840 | So when we talk about like the joint positions

01:20:55.880 | that we were talking about earlier

01:20:57.040 | and having those and the muscles

01:20:58.120 | in the right length and tension relationship,

01:21:01.080 | athleticism is the speed to relaxation

01:21:05.560 | because the counter is speed to contraction.

01:21:10.840 | Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee, right?

01:21:14.440 | And so what a mace can do is use that

01:21:16.800 | 'cause this ties back into a developmental kinesiology

01:21:20.160 | 'cause a lot of like reset patterns

01:21:22.520 | are getting back into these basic movements,

01:21:24.240 | but it's as much about relaxation as it is contraction.

01:21:28.000 | Okay?

01:21:28.840 | So a mace, we have this weight on a big long lever.

01:21:32.360 | So if I grab a kettlebell,

01:21:33.800 | and this would be like the same movement

01:21:34.880 | as a kettlebell halo.

01:21:36.320 | It is the same movement as a kettlebell.

01:21:37.680 | But here in the halo, I'm on the whole time.

01:21:40.860 | With the mace at the proper length

01:21:44.020 | with the right distribution, you cannot do the movement.

01:21:47.520 | You could not move, force your way through it.

01:21:50.240 | The only way that you can accomplish that is by relaxing.

01:21:54.800 | And then now we can contract all the muscles

01:21:58.120 | related around that shoulder girdle all at once.

01:22:01.880 | We're working on, off, on, off, on, off

01:22:04.520 | with moving and contracting.

01:22:06.760 | And now, so what happens a lot of times

01:22:08.880 | as this stiffness and tightness happens,

01:22:12.400 | if we're in poor positions,

01:22:13.440 | we start using stabilizer muscles to do the movement.

01:22:17.680 | And then that's where this stiffness come from.

01:22:19.720 | So it means that in some of whatever training

01:22:22.820 | that you're doing,

01:22:23.760 | there's a deficit in the movement quality.

01:22:25.920 | Okay.

01:22:27.640 | Or there's a deficit in the training program

01:22:29.800 | and you're not recovering from.

01:22:30.920 | And 80% of the time, that's the right answer, right?

01:22:33.720 | But yeah, that's where the gap is

01:22:35.800 | and learning how to relax.

01:22:38.280 | And the way a lot of the exercises are taught

01:22:41.480 | and have been taught for a long time,

01:22:42.880 | which is why there's a big gap.

01:22:44.400 | And this is why both clinical rehab

01:22:46.760 | and all these other components are mixed in my philosophy

01:22:49.280 | and what I'm trying to do with Kabuki strength.

01:22:51.520 | Because I'm looking at holistic movement.

01:22:53.760 | I'm not looking at powerlifting.

01:22:55.760 | Base movements are what I want to load

01:22:57.600 | and be able to assess on.

01:22:58.880 | But this affects all sports, all activities.

01:23:04.640 | And strength doesn't have to be that.

01:23:07.240 | I mean, I'm freaking a thousand pound squatter

01:23:09.660 | and deadlifter.

01:23:10.600 | If you watch any of my videos

01:23:11.960 | where I do like complete quad fallbacks,

01:23:14.320 | I don't stretch at all.

01:23:15.240 | I can usually get close to a full split,

01:23:17.040 | like if I want to.

01:23:18.760 | - What?

01:23:19.760 | No, I did not see those videos.

01:23:21.080 | - Okay.

01:23:21.920 | - That's hard to believe.

01:23:23.800 | Wow, okay.

01:23:24.640 | - Well, actually I do.

01:23:25.760 | I just did one recently,

01:23:26.740 | a quad fallback with my mace loaded way out to the end,

01:23:29.720 | torsioning on both ends of the other.

01:23:31.240 | And like, I do a lot of weird stuff.

01:23:34.220 | - That's awesome.

01:23:36.200 | Okay.

01:23:37.040 | - Squatting doesn't make your hips tight.

01:23:39.120 | Squatting like shit makes your hips tight.

01:23:42.760 | And so, but there is no perfect world.

01:23:46.020 | We're always, our training program isn't quite perfect.

01:23:48.700 | Our movement isn't necessarily perfect.

01:23:50.780 | Like, so you're going to have the needs for this stuff.

01:23:52.740 | But if you're always have to do some soft tissue work

01:23:56.460 | to loosen up the same one for that exercise,

01:23:58.860 | to be able to get a joint in position,

01:24:00.880 | there is a problem.

01:24:01.880 | And I'm not saying don't do it, do it,

01:24:03.380 | because I don't want you to have a joint.

01:24:05.160 | Like if I can't get my shoulders in a position,

01:24:07.580 | I can't do overhead presses

01:24:09.480 | because I'm going to compromise my spine position.

01:24:11.240 | Then I'm going to end up with some other problems, right?

01:24:13.160 | So go ahead and clean that up so you can get in position,

01:24:16.300 | but go figure out why it is and fix it.

01:24:20.340 | And then maybe next, you know, three, four months from now,

01:24:22.780 | they're going to get a little something else going on.

01:24:25.300 | Fix it, but go understand the deeper root reason of why.

01:24:29.100 | So I'm, I believe I am the only company

01:24:32.120 | manufacturing and selling, you know,

01:24:34.340 | fascial soft tissue tools.

01:24:35.700 | And I'll tell you, I don't want you to use them.

01:24:38.100 | - 'Cause it's not helping you get to the why,

01:24:41.980 | why it was caused in the first place.

01:24:43.700 | - Yeah.

01:24:44.580 | The goal, the goal, the perfect state

01:24:46.780 | is not having to use them.

01:24:48.640 | Reality is you're going to have to use them

01:24:50.260 | from time to time because the world's not perfect.

01:24:53.020 | - Yeah.

01:24:53.980 | - So your discovery is a hundred percent on point.

01:24:56.380 | - Well, there's another side to combat sports.

01:24:59.880 | When you're beginning a particular combat sport,

01:25:04.380 | strength can be a negative because human psychology,

01:25:09.040 | because you can get away with a lot when you're stronger.

01:25:12.100 | - Yes, you can.

01:25:12.940 | - So if your mind is strong enough

01:25:15.500 | to where you can just turn off that advantage

01:25:19.400 | and be a beginner truly in a particular art,

01:25:22.500 | that's probably the best way to do it.

01:25:23.780 | - But you can get away and then you don't learn.

01:25:26.120 | - Yeah.

01:25:26.960 | - Yeah.

01:25:28.060 | - It's hard.

01:25:28.900 | It's hard not to use the little advantages you have

01:25:32.320 | because like jujitsu is a big hit on the ego for,

01:25:37.320 | you know, especially guys,

01:25:39.980 | you know, when like a smaller person just destroys you,

01:25:43.740 | dominates you, when you can, I don't know,

01:25:46.260 | deadlift whatever number of pounds.

01:25:49.700 | And it's hard not to use that strength

01:25:52.380 | to then resist the, slow the ultimate destruction

01:25:56.940 | by like 120 pound.

01:25:58.900 | - But that, and that's why I recommend

01:26:00.580 | developing the skill quality first,

01:26:02.480 | but it doesn't mean that you can't.

01:26:04.200 | - You can't, that's right.

01:26:05.320 | - You can still do it.

01:26:06.240 | So that don't take it as a like,

01:26:07.720 | oh, I can't go that direction.

01:26:09.640 | That's fine, but understand those things.

01:26:11.960 | And then also understand

01:26:13.200 | that jujitsu is additional load on the body.

01:26:15.280 | - Yeah.

01:26:16.120 | - So you have to, you can't just add it on top.

01:26:18.120 | - Yeah.

01:26:18.960 | - You've got to taper back the other,

01:26:20.720 | you're gonna have to make a,

01:26:22.080 | I'm sorry, you may not want to hear it,

01:26:24.760 | but you're not gonna be able to do as much

01:26:27.200 | and add that here.

01:26:28.480 | - Yeah.

01:26:29.320 | - So you have to compromise

01:26:30.700 | because your total volume still has to be there.

01:26:34.460 | And there's not, unfortunately,

01:26:35.340 | not really a way to measure

01:26:37.140 | what the jujitsu volume is with this.

01:26:39.260 | So you've got to take a look at that.

01:26:41.660 | And that's where like measuring like heart rate variability

01:26:44.380 | or other stuff can be useful.

01:26:46.220 | So you can see what is happening for me

01:26:48.640 | from a sympathetic versus parasympathetic

01:26:51.500 | nervous system standpoint.

01:26:52.580 | - Yeah, making sure your body recovers efficiently

01:26:54.740 | and trying to put numbers to it.

01:26:56.880 | You mentioned Kabuki strength.

01:26:58.700 | You run the Kabuki strength lab,

01:27:01.180 | previously called the Elite Performance Center in Oregon.

01:27:04.540 | You called it the perfect gym.

01:27:06.200 | What makes for the perfect strength training gym?

01:27:10.980 | - Where I called it the perfect gym?

01:27:11.820 | - In a video somewhere I watched.

01:27:13.540 | - Oh man.

01:27:15.100 | I mean, that's where my testing grounds

01:27:17.960 | for developing all this stuff was through the years.

01:27:20.340 | And so this is, like I said,

01:27:22.460 | I started developing relationships

01:27:24.160 | with the best developmental kinesiologist in the US,

01:27:28.460 | the best, arguably the best

01:27:30.020 | or most well-known physical therapist in the world,

01:27:31.940 | the best spine biomechanist in the world.

01:27:35.260 | I started doing continuing education

01:27:36.900 | with these clinical courses and learning this stuff

01:27:38.980 | and going, but how does it work in my world?

01:27:41.620 | And then I started lecturing with them

01:27:43.100 | and all this other stuff,

01:27:43.920 | but the lab was like, where do we test this stuff?

01:27:47.420 | And so let me get to a point, there's three things.

01:27:50.540 | There's always three things.

01:27:52.460 | So to be a success, to achieve success,

01:27:57.760 | I believe there's three things

01:27:58.960 | that really, really come into place.

01:28:01.280 | And it's the right methodology,

01:28:05.720 | the right tools and the right environment.

01:28:09.920 | And so it was all about building that.

01:28:13.260 | And so the methodologies came from a lot of that different,

01:28:18.000 | that gray area, interaction of clinical

01:28:20.340 | with sports science, right?

01:28:22.320 | And then the tools I had to start creating and designing,

01:28:26.080 | and then the environment is having this focused environment

01:28:30.720 | of people that want to do better and push each other

01:28:32.800 | and having community and culture, right?

01:28:35.800 | I ended up building these connections, this network.

01:28:38.200 | Everything that I'm doing with my businesses

01:28:41.080 | is trying to create that into a scalable fashion.

01:28:44.480 | And so I'm building the groundwork

01:28:45.860 | because to have a system that like, yeah,

01:28:48.240 | I had clinicals on site that knew exactly what we were doing

01:28:51.400 | and when it's me and a few people in a small team

01:28:54.000 | and all this stuff, we're all just like easy to manage.

01:28:57.280 | And you can see these, there's other models around this.

01:28:59.400 | So I've been other areas since maybe whenever it was,

01:29:02.200 | I filmed that video that said that,

01:29:04.000 | that they have that same model.

01:29:06.400 | And it's taken probably about a decade usually

01:29:08.440 | to develop that, you know,

01:29:10.120 | and having the right people in this community,

01:29:12.440 | they can create this network and all this stuff, right?

01:29:16.200 | Except they still don't have the best tools

01:29:17.680 | because Kabuki strength didn't exist.

01:29:19.520 | (laughing)

01:29:22.720 | And so out of that was,

01:29:24.280 | is essentially I started building this business

01:29:27.560 | and people like,

01:29:28.400 | when did you know how all this stuff was connected?

01:29:30.800 | And I'm like, I don't know.

01:29:32.400 | I didn't, I just started creating on the outset

01:29:35.280 | the things that worked until finally I'm like,

01:29:37.200 | oh, I'm recreating a scalable version of this stuff.

01:29:41.680 | Here's the methodologies and a coaching platform

01:29:43.940 | that we can manage clients around the globe

01:29:46.280 | and see what's working

01:29:47.120 | and not based on the scientific principles of training.

01:29:49.600 | Right?

01:29:50.440 | How do we create that into a database

01:29:51.800 | that now we can train new coaches

01:29:53.840 | and they can use those same metrics and tools

01:29:56.280 | to create programs that are tailored

01:29:57.920 | to fit person's individual needs, right?

01:30:00.640 | Now, how do we integrate that with assessment

01:30:04.000 | and clinical care assessment and all these other pieces?

01:30:07.640 | So there's a lot of work in that.

01:30:09.400 | And so that's where Kabuki strength is the genesis,

01:30:11.880 | but we have, we call our gym, the Kabuki strength lab.

01:30:15.500 | Literally people find about our gym in the neighborhood

01:30:19.560 | and they're like, how long have you been here?

01:30:20.720 | Why do I not know about this?

01:30:22.400 | We don't advertise our gym at all.

01:30:25.120 | They're like, that makes no sense.

01:30:27.680 | Well, that's 'cause the only reason

01:30:29.840 | is to have a testing environment

01:30:32.280 | for the tools and methodology

01:30:33.720 | and having enough people to have the culture and fit

01:30:36.400 | and to be able to be part of the experiment.

01:30:39.820 | - What about the environment of the feel of it?

01:30:42.580 | The actual gym?

01:30:44.120 | There's a, I don't know, a grunginess to it.

01:30:47.880 | I've recently became a member of Planet Fitness.

01:30:50.280 | (both laughing)

01:30:51.960 | For reasons that have to do more with the heat in Austin

01:30:55.960 | that sometimes I need to put in time on the treadmill.

01:30:59.400 | I don't like that gym.

01:31:00.240 | - I don't have any judgment, honestly, I don't.

01:31:01.640 | - The best gyms I've been in are kind of dirty.

01:31:06.000 | - You walk in and you know that work is to be done.

01:31:08.400 | - Yes.

01:31:09.240 | - There's not another reason to do there.

01:31:10.500 | It is, the environment is tight.

01:31:13.360 | There's a big piece of that.

01:31:14.860 | I know it's studied sociologically, I believe.

01:31:18.720 | I just, I just butchered that word too.

01:31:20.520 | (both laughing)

01:31:22.480 | But the intensity, when you start growing a space,

01:31:25.960 | the intensity drops.

01:31:28.440 | And so I had that experience when we grew,

01:31:30.920 | we went from a 4,000 foot to a 9,000 square foot gym

01:31:33.560 | at one time.

01:31:34.700 | And everybody's like, it doesn't feel the same.

01:31:38.280 | Like if people are complaining for years,

01:31:39.680 | we've shrunk it back down.

01:31:40.640 | Well, we're down to 3,500 square feet

01:31:42.280 | and it creates that intensity.

01:31:44.120 | It creates the closest,

01:31:45.440 | the connection with the people around you.

01:31:47.520 | And then, like I said, the grunginess,

01:31:49.440 | like you go in, you know the intention when you walk in.

01:31:52.720 | That environment creates that tension.

01:31:54.280 | But when I speak environment, it's not just the,

01:31:56.000 | it's not the physical, it's the people.

01:31:58.480 | - But you know when the gym is a little bit beat up?

01:32:01.360 | - Yes.

01:32:02.200 | - It also tells a story, like there's a history to it.

01:32:06.500 | You could tell that not only is there work to be done,

01:32:09.680 | that work has been done here.

01:32:11.520 | - Yes.

01:32:12.360 | - Like battles have been fought.

01:32:13.560 | There's something to that where you're just

01:32:15.760 | in a long line of people that fought and won.

01:32:20.760 | - And we could get into a whole nother space,

01:32:23.680 | so this would be a whole nother topic,

01:32:24.920 | but that existing energy of a space.

01:32:28.320 | - I mean, we mentioned offline Joe Rogan.

01:32:30.400 | He talks about the same with comedy clubs.

01:32:32.440 | There's certain clubs that just have a history.

01:32:35.960 | There's an energy there.

01:32:38.040 | You can get all woo-woo, but you know, it's there.

01:32:41.000 | - It's a real thing, I think.

01:32:42.240 | You walk in and you can feel it.

01:32:43.880 | - And you feel it.

01:32:44.720 | - You feel it, yeah.

01:32:46.200 | - That makes me feel that somehow all of us humans

01:32:50.720 | are connected in ways that's hard to describe,

01:32:53.240 | even the ones who are no longer here.

01:32:56.780 | Just the greatness that once was is still in the walls,

01:33:01.780 | in the space, present there.

01:33:04.400 | - Yeah.

01:33:05.240 | - And we somehow can plug into that energy.

01:33:07.160 | - Yeah, it's, we can go down a path there.

01:33:11.640 | - There's something really powerful there.

01:33:13.600 | You've also mentioned a bunch of cool equipment

01:33:16.480 | that you've developed as part of Kabuki Strength.

01:33:19.520 | Probably a little bit of that has to do

01:33:22.040 | with your engineering education,

01:33:23.960 | but also just generally with the spirit

01:33:26.920 | of the innovator that you are.

01:33:29.060 | What are some cool, maybe revolutionary pieces

01:33:33.080 | of equipment that you're particularly proud of

01:33:35.360 | or just you've been obsessed with recently?

01:33:38.760 | - Yeah. - That you're developing?

01:33:39.960 | - Love to talk about that.

01:33:41.080 | So we've got some wild, crazy stuff

01:33:43.360 | that just came out and is coming out too.

01:33:45.360 | So everything that we create and release at Kabuki Strength,

01:33:50.320 | the industry hasn't seen before.

01:33:53.240 | There's stuff that's basic foundational

01:33:56.320 | that's been around forever because it works.

01:33:58.480 | But there's always more.

01:34:02.800 | It could be better.

01:34:04.280 | And why are we not looking at these things,

01:34:06.280 | these foundational things?

01:34:07.320 | So when people are coming up with novel things,

01:34:09.160 | they end up being way different outside the perspective.

01:34:11.340 | And I'm coming up with things that are way different

01:34:14.040 | that are plays on what we already know works.

01:34:17.520 | So we talked about the transform bar,

01:34:18.840 | the only bar in the world.

01:34:19.920 | We can manipulate spinal mechanics.

01:34:21.680 | So everything for me from a design concept

01:34:26.160 | that we develop is all about creating products

01:34:29.640 | that can rapidly accommodate to the variability

01:34:33.800 | of an individual's leverages, mobility, and training needs.

01:34:41.040 | And that's gonna also create and distill down the size

01:34:43.940 | and scope of space that we need,

01:34:45.160 | which is gonna continue to be an ongoing thing.

01:34:48.480 | Check out my Instagram after this, and you'll see,

01:34:50.220 | I put an entire gym on the bed of my truck

01:34:52.420 | and went on vacation last week, drove to the desert.

01:34:56.040 | - Oh no, that's so awesome.

01:34:56.880 | - And by entire gym, I mean squat rack,

01:34:59.640 | full compliment of our specialty bars,

01:35:01.360 | a horizontal and vertical pulley system,

01:35:03.640 | handheld weights, shoulder,

01:35:05.520 | like a complete, an entire gym in product

01:35:08.920 | that took up the space, the size of this bed right here.

01:35:11.880 | - That's incredible.

01:35:13.880 | - Because of the design scope of what we have.

01:35:16.000 | So the cool thing is that there's two other bars

01:35:18.920 | that fit our biomechanically sound barbell lines.

01:35:21.440 | We talked about the transformer bar.

01:35:23.360 | The other two are built on this thing

01:35:25.760 | I called playground physics.

01:35:27.800 | So we have these bars with handles

01:35:31.160 | that are off parallel with the axis.

01:35:35.520 | So they've been around the market for a long time.

01:35:37.360 | One is a hex bar or a trap bar.

01:35:40.280 | Another one is a, it's a pressing bar

01:35:43.560 | with the handles turned as well.

01:35:46.240 | And both of them suck.

01:35:48.580 | They're horrible.

01:35:49.420 | Anytime, any lifter knows if you pick it up,

01:35:51.620 | it's going to break your wrist and crush into your face.

01:35:54.240 | And it just doesn't feel good pressing,

01:35:57.280 | but it alleviates the strain on the wrist.

01:36:00.260 | So people use it for that reason.

01:36:01.800 | And the trap bar, same thing.

01:36:04.720 | It's always diving forward in your hand.

01:36:06.600 | So it's kind of limited.

01:36:07.840 | It's also limited in use

01:36:09.200 | because you could do a lot more with it.

01:36:12.160 | So these bars are really cool, playground physics.

01:36:14.920 | So as soon as the center of rotation

01:36:18.220 | is on the same axis as the center of mass

01:36:24.760 | and the handle is off center, you have a teeter-totter.

01:36:29.180 | So a teeter-totter has a balance point,

01:36:33.280 | but it's infinitely perfect.

01:36:34.620 | So technically you can never find it.

01:36:36.180 | It's always going to be sitting on one side

01:36:37.280 | or the other in a playground.

01:36:38.680 | And that's what these bars are designed.

01:36:40.360 | So you got instability right here.

01:36:42.280 | You can't find the center.

01:36:43.120 | The bar is always trying to tip in your hands

01:36:44.400 | on the trap bar.

01:36:45.240 | So you can't do carries with it

01:36:46.440 | 'cause you're doing for momentum

01:36:47.560 | and it wants to dip on you, right?

01:36:49.960 | The Swiss bar wants to crush your face.

01:36:52.320 | Well, what do we do?

01:36:53.280 | We just make a swing.

01:36:54.320 | Put center of mass below center of rotation.

01:36:57.440 | And what does it do?

01:36:59.880 | Oh, it always finds center.

01:37:02.580 | So the handles on our pressing bar,

01:37:05.920 | it's arced so that the handles are above center of rotation.

01:37:09.120 | And then every angle,

01:37:11.600 | instead of just being a certain fixed angles,

01:37:14.160 | each angle is based on the width,

01:37:16.180 | the average width of an individual.

01:37:17.760 | So the internal and external rotational bias

01:37:20.320 | is based of the shoulder, is based on the width,

01:37:23.080 | leaving just a little bit left

01:37:24.320 | because we talked about the lat being a stabilizer.

01:37:26.320 | You still need to have a little bit of cue

01:37:27.680 | of external rotation to engage that as a stabilizer.

01:37:30.760 | Boom.

01:37:31.600 | Now, all of a sudden you have a bar

01:37:32.440 | and I kid you not, this is a great story.

01:37:35.000 | Major League Baseball, when I presented it,

01:37:36.880 | every head strength coach for a Major League Baseball team,

01:37:38.880 | maybe not every, but damn near most of them,

01:37:41.720 | have bad shoulders.

01:37:42.840 | They can't press, they've got shoulder surgeries, so on.

01:37:45.680 | And so we're showing, they love all our stuff.

01:37:47.320 | And I'm like, "Hey, I've got this cool prototype

01:37:48.760 | I wanna show you, it's a pressing bar."

01:37:49.960 | And they're like, "Oh, you know,

01:37:52.160 | Major League Baseball is a little hesitant on pressing

01:37:54.680 | 'cause of the dangers for the shoulder."

01:37:56.520 | And I haven't been able to take a bar to my chest.

01:38:00.200 | I mean, I'd really love to.

01:38:01.040 | It's been five years since I've been able

01:38:03.360 | to XX train and I'm like, "Just try it."

01:38:07.560 | Like, I can't even get a bar to my chest without pain.

01:38:09.440 | I'm like, "Just try it."

01:38:10.280 | Put it in there.

01:38:11.120 | Ooh, that feels good.

01:38:12.040 | Now, the arc makes it actually three inches deeper.

01:38:15.280 | So people are automatically scared.

01:38:16.560 | I can't do that 'cause that's an extra range of motion.

01:38:19.560 | I'm like, "Ooh, put a plate on there."

01:38:20.880 | They're doing it.

01:38:21.720 | By that time, the staff's like, they're all standing around.

01:38:24.000 | You see like, "What's going on?"

01:38:25.120 | "Put two plates on."

01:38:26.880 | You see the, just like, he gets up.

01:38:29.400 | "How do you feel?"

01:38:30.600 | Like, "I feel fine.

01:38:32.840 | No pain at all."

01:38:34.800 | I did this with five teams,

01:38:36.920 | with five of the, it happening repeatedly five times.

01:38:41.920 | And every one of them worked up to two plates

01:38:44.560 | and did reps varied with zero pain

01:38:47.500 | to a three inch greater range of motion.

01:38:49.520 | 'Cause what did we do?

01:38:50.340 | We stacked all the joints

01:38:51.320 | and we provided stability at the end.

01:38:52.680 | We balanced internal and external rotation.

01:38:54.400 | I mean, just basic playground physics

01:38:56.960 | and it changed the game.

01:38:58.240 | Now we get a greater range of motion

01:39:00.440 | with a greater training effect

01:39:01.600 | with the negative stresses removed.

01:39:03.680 | Our trap bar opened up one side,

01:39:05.820 | which there was already something like that out there.

01:39:07.780 | Created, it pops up so you can pick up,

01:39:11.040 | take the weights on and off.

01:39:12.000 | It's got a built-in jack.

01:39:13.440 | And then created the high handle position,

01:39:16.000 | which already did it.

01:39:16.840 | Everybody uses the high handle on a trap bar.

01:39:18.240 | They just don't know why they like it.

01:39:19.920 | The handle that's on center, we offset just a little bit.

01:39:22.280 | Not enough to make a difference

01:39:23.320 | on the range of motion lift or even notice visibly,

01:39:26.200 | but it still has the same effect.

01:39:27.480 | So both handles now have that.

01:39:30.080 | We added the option of different handle sizes

01:39:32.160 | based on whatever your needs are,

01:39:33.360 | even a one that rolls to develop a grip.

01:39:36.440 | And then different widths that you could choose from

01:39:38.360 | based on whether you're training a teen athlete

01:39:40.120 | or a seven foot six NBA player or a NFL lineman

01:39:43.440 | so that we can accommodate for all these differences.

01:39:47.680 | And so, and then now it becomes the most functional

01:39:49.940 | all around bar around

01:39:51.720 | because now you can do carries with it.

01:39:53.280 | You can do split squats with it.

01:39:54.960 | You could do curls with it because it goes around the body.

01:39:57.320 | You can do overhead presses

01:39:58.480 | because you don't have a thing that gets in your way

01:40:00.160 | and you can flip it up into position.

01:40:01.720 | You can do bent over rows and not run into your shins.

01:40:04.680 | You can do seal rows off of a bench.

01:40:06.160 | You can do ab rollouts.

01:40:07.480 | You could, should I go on?

01:40:08.760 | Yeah, so you could use it as like the main bar.

01:40:10.600 | The best multi-purpose bar around.

01:40:12.280 | You got a home gym, one bar.

01:40:13.640 | Like how do you develop totally new equipment like this?

01:40:16.440 | I scratch it on paper.

01:40:18.520 | Maybe weld some cut up and weld up a prototype.

01:40:23.000 | But usually I just hand the scratched up paper

01:40:25.000 | to my engineering manager.

01:40:27.480 | And that's what he says his job is

01:40:29.160 | to distill my chicken scratch into something real.

01:40:32.040 | And then that team picks it up.

01:40:33.560 | But in the old days, starting out,

01:40:35.120 | I just walk out and do it.

01:40:37.700 | You talk about engineering.

01:40:40.000 | I'm actually more, I work more of an artist fashion.

01:40:41.840 | It's in my head and I just go create with no plans.

01:40:45.920 | And so they have to pick that up

01:40:47.320 | and actually do the engineering and testing and all that.

01:40:50.320 | And then we got two other products came out this year.

01:40:52.080 | Freaking wild.

01:40:53.280 | Are you familiar with training with a flywheel?

01:40:55.880 | No, it's a flywheel.

01:40:57.520 | Maybe I am.

01:40:58.440 | A flywheel is a spinning object

01:41:00.200 | that creates an inertial mass.

01:41:02.200 | Yeah.

01:41:03.040 | And then it reverses direction.

01:41:04.480 | So whatever you put into it, and there's ones out there,

01:41:07.880 | but ours is the first patent pending.

01:41:10.520 | That's everything all in one unit.

01:41:12.640 | So it's a floor-based as well as a horizontal.

01:41:15.380 | So you can basically do any pulley movement in the world.

01:41:17.600 | And now everything that you put into it

01:41:19.640 | on a concentric force, it whips right back

01:41:21.240 | as peak centric load.

01:41:23.640 | Gotcha.

01:41:24.480 | So it's an accelerating whipping motion.

01:41:26.520 | It just, yeah, basically.

01:41:29.120 | Yeah.

01:41:29.960 | I mean, okay, I have trouble imagining exactly.

01:41:32.680 | Many of the things you're describing,

01:41:34.560 | I suppose have to be experienced, right?

01:41:36.920 | Yes.

01:41:37.840 | 'Cause there's a magic to it.

01:41:39.160 | And there's a lot of research they've been around.

01:41:40.660 | They're adopted more heavily in Europe,

01:41:43.100 | quite heavily in Europe, but not as much in the US

01:41:45.800 | because they sell them as a be all end all tool,

01:41:47.480 | which they're not.

01:41:48.320 | They're crazy for what they do, but it's not the,

01:41:51.200 | it's another tool.

01:41:52.280 | And so we have a very high quality unit now

01:41:55.840 | that is half the cost of everybody else's

01:41:57.640 | because the innovation of a movable mount point

01:42:00.360 | that for them, you have to have two pieces of equipment.

01:42:03.360 | We have one.

01:42:04.680 | So, and then a few other things,

01:42:06.680 | better platform to be able to do things

01:42:08.360 | and that we can do what we call off-platform work,

01:42:11.800 | which allows us to do movements like punches

01:42:15.240 | and standups, things like that.

01:42:17.040 | And then I've got a handheld weight coming out next month

01:42:19.920 | that we can actually play with.

01:42:21.360 | So varying the load with it,

01:42:23.840 | never leaving your hand by changing the leverage point.

01:42:26.960 | And so what that-

01:42:28.400 | - What exercise are we talking about here?

01:42:31.400 | - Anything that would be a dumbbell or a kettlebell movement.

01:42:34.960 | So it functions, it does the function of a kettlebell,

01:42:37.320 | a dumbbell, and what we call a center mass bell,

01:42:39.320 | as well as provides variable loading within a range.

01:42:42.040 | - So how can you change, like, how can you change the load?

01:42:46.860 | - Because load, well, we don't actually change the load.

01:42:49.480 | We change the torque on the joint that we're working,

01:42:52.640 | which is the same.

01:42:53.660 | That's actually what is creating the force, right?

01:42:55.380 | So if I'm doing a front raise,

01:42:57.380 | it's where this downward force is

01:43:00.340 | times the distance away, right?

01:43:02.120 | Which also then makes it no force

01:43:04.560 | when I've got at the bottom of the front raise,

01:43:05.960 | which is why it's so easy.

01:43:07.320 | With this, it's like a kettlebell.

01:43:09.960 | It's offset, except it has three different handles,

01:43:12.740 | but it's offset just that a kettlebell,

01:43:14.160 | you can't do it because the offset so far,

01:43:15.760 | it becomes a wrist movement.

01:43:17.640 | So ours has three different sizes

01:43:19.640 | and the offset just enough so that you can pick,

01:43:22.240 | if I put it in a front raise position or a curl position,

01:43:24.440 | I could put it in an outward position

01:43:26.360 | and the force is almost what it is at the top,

01:43:29.720 | but then I get to the top

01:43:30.560 | and it's the same exact or the curl.

01:43:32.260 | So I can actually change the force curve in the movement.

01:43:34.680 | And then I can just release the pressure a little bit

01:43:37.080 | and let it swing into position

01:43:38.240 | and keep doing a drop set with never letting it down.

01:43:40.680 | Yeah, so it's got a really nice texture grip

01:43:42.640 | that allows you to hold it in different positions.

01:43:44.920 | And then the load offset is just enough

01:43:46.920 | that it doesn't overpower the wrist.

01:43:48.480 | And then you got different hand sizes

01:43:49.980 | so that you can maximize this relationship

01:43:52.000 | and hit whatever joint that you're applying.

01:43:54.360 | - That sounds incredible.

01:43:55.760 | - It's really freaking, well, it's awesome

01:43:57.520 | 'cause you can, because of the variable load,

01:43:59.520 | now I could go straight from front raises

01:44:01.320 | to side raises or rear or curl because--

01:44:03.680 | - Without like putting it down.

01:44:04.520 | - Because I don't have to put it down.

01:44:05.400 | So now my time under tension goes through the roof.

01:44:08.620 | And by the way, the same effect with a flywheel trainer,

01:44:10.760 | because the variable,

01:44:12.040 | whatever you put into it is what it kicks back.

01:44:14.540 | So you have an constant time under tension

01:44:17.000 | 'cause there's no rest points either.

01:44:18.280 | So all this stuff is working

01:44:19.400 | on maximizing time under tension, which anyway,

01:44:22.560 | it's cool stuff. - That's fascinating.

01:44:24.800 | - Anyway, I get excited.

01:44:26.480 | - Well, let me ask you about another thing

01:44:29.280 | you've already mentioned,

01:44:30.120 | but I find this really interesting,

01:44:31.760 | which is barefoot running.

01:44:33.320 | And your sort of company,

01:44:38.320 | Barefoot Athletics, B-E-A-R,

01:44:42.360 | and the tagline is optimizing the human to ground interface.

01:44:46.260 | We've talked about this a little bit with the power lifting.

01:44:51.100 | How do you think about the foot ground interface?

01:44:56.100 | - It's interesting that we know

01:45:01.780 | that we should train all these parts of our body

01:45:05.220 | to be able to be stronger, be more resilient.

01:45:10.300 | But we think that the foot is different,

01:45:13.920 | that we need to package it and modify it.

01:45:16.040 | And somehow that that's the science of making it healthy.

01:45:19.800 | Where I challenge people, think about that.

01:45:23.120 | Like first thing you do in the morning

01:45:25.000 | is roll out of bed and put your weightlifting belt on

01:45:27.880 | and wrap it on tight and wear it

01:45:29.360 | till you go to bed at night.

01:45:31.000 | Do it with your shoulders, your knees.

01:45:32.800 | Put it, wake up and put some knee wraps on, okay?

01:45:35.640 | And elbow wraps and see what happens.

01:45:38.520 | One, you'll get weaker, you'll lose movement capacity

01:45:42.100 | and you'll start affecting other areas of the body

01:45:44.140 | very negatively because they will start picking up

01:45:46.100 | the compensation for those joints

01:45:48.140 | that are not moving properly.

01:45:49.580 | This is it.

01:45:51.760 | What shoes are for is to protect you from the environment,

01:45:55.740 | from cuts and abrasions and heat and things like that.

01:45:59.620 | But the foot, let me, the mind blowing

01:46:03.620 | is like every other area of the body.

01:46:07.340 | You need to use it and you need to strengthen it

01:46:10.320 | and you need to learn to control it.

01:46:12.160 | That's it.

01:46:13.000 | That's all I have to say about the subject, okay?

01:46:15.960 | It's that simple but somehow we have been sold

01:46:20.600 | entire industries like the orthotics industry.

01:46:23.780 | It's completely false.

01:46:25.060 | Meta analysis of the data shows that orthotics

01:46:27.320 | do nothing beyond temporary relief from pain

01:46:29.960 | over a six, eight week period of time

01:46:31.360 | and provide no long-term benefit.

01:46:33.000 | And I can't tell you how many people

01:46:34.880 | I've eliminated back or knee or hip pain

01:46:37.980 | from working on strengthening and controlling

01:46:40.780 | the foot and ankle complex.

01:46:42.620 | We believe we've villainized and said,

01:46:45.180 | a low arch is a condition that needs fixed.

01:46:48.240 | Like when it really is just controlling

01:46:52.740 | the foot and ankle complex and how they relate

01:46:54.740 | to each other and how we use that.

01:46:56.220 | Is it like, go put on boxing gloves in the morning

01:46:59.940 | and do that for the next 20 years and see what happens.

01:47:02.380 | It's not about finding the right shoe that fits

01:47:04.520 | because your foot has been deformed.

01:47:07.420 | And so I'm not like some wacky, like,

01:47:09.820 | oh, you gotta be barefoot forever or do this.

01:47:11.780 | Like, no, I'm just saying, go spend some time using it.

01:47:15.580 | Strengthen it, learn to control it

01:47:17.460 | and you will work better in a shoe.

01:47:19.140 | But the whole running shoe movement with the raised heel,

01:47:22.220 | that was the person that suggested that to Nike way back

01:47:27.220 | when they were trying to figure out what to do,

01:47:29.500 | the reason, and he says it's the worst thing

01:47:32.940 | that he ever did because we were coming from an era

01:47:37.940 | of people wearing heeled shoes,

01:47:39.280 | which by the way came from stirrups way back in the day.

01:47:42.640 | That's where the whole heel came from is to go into stirrup,

01:47:44.640 | but then it went into fashion.

01:47:45.500 | And then the running craze started coming around

01:47:47.560 | in the '70s.

01:47:48.460 | They're starting to push this, the general mass population,

01:47:52.120 | and they realized that they were causing injuries.

01:47:54.120 | And like, what are we gonna do?

01:47:55.820 | Well, that's because everybody was in this position

01:47:58.320 | and had a shortened calf muscle.

01:48:00.600 | And it's like, well, to work around,

01:48:01.560 | let's just put a heel on it so we don't injure them.

01:48:04.160 | That's it.

01:48:06.680 | And now, because the raised heel,

01:48:08.520 | you gotta raise the toe.

01:48:09.760 | And then now with that, if you go stand on something

01:48:12.800 | and pull your inner toe in, and in a squat position,

01:48:15.880 | just reach down and do it,

01:48:17.040 | you'll see that you have no control over internal

01:48:19.680 | and external rotation of your leg.

01:48:22.320 | You don't.

01:48:23.160 | Or your foot.

01:48:25.000 | And you actually have to put a support in for the arch

01:48:28.480 | to be able to passively control those structures.

01:48:31.300 | It's just Band-Aid on top of Band-Aid on top of Band-Aid.

01:48:36.240 | Use it, strengthen it.

01:48:37.560 | If you wanna wear some shoes 'cause they look good

01:48:39.320 | or fancy, I'm like, I have no problem.

01:48:40.720 | I mean, I go out on a wife,

01:48:41.960 | my wife will put on some high heels every now and again.

01:48:45.320 | But all I'm saying is, use your foot.

01:48:48.080 | My 1,000-pound squat, my 1,000-pound deadlift,

01:48:50.500 | we're done barefoot.

01:48:51.520 | I'm not trying to sell you shoes.

01:48:53.680 | Go do it with no shoe.

01:48:56.140 | That's what I've been promoting.

01:48:57.320 | I did that for six years and I promoted it.

01:48:59.200 | But people ask me, well, what do I do?

01:49:02.160 | Because my gym requires shoes.

01:49:03.820 | Where do I go?

01:49:06.280 | And then I go, well, you could pick up

01:49:09.400 | these other finger shoes or whatever.

01:49:11.440 | And they go, man, my wife won't have sex with me

01:49:14.440 | if I do that.

01:49:15.280 | And I go, I know, mine either.

01:49:17.680 | Trust me, I'm not making this up.

01:49:19.760 | Everybody in that market markets to one segment

01:49:21.680 | and they're still missing some gaps

01:49:23.560 | because they still have a little bit too narrow of a toe box.

01:49:26.720 | And if you're lifting, you have the opportunity

01:49:28.040 | to really get that splay and start working

01:49:29.960 | on this stuff better.

01:49:31.160 | So I just wanted to create a shoe.

01:49:33.840 | These ones are odd colored

01:49:34.840 | 'cause it's a partnership with Kabuki.

01:49:36.640 | Normally we've got a black or a gray,

01:49:38.640 | low top, high top, sticks to the ground for lifting

01:49:41.400 | so we can do that.

01:49:42.360 | And very pliable.

01:49:43.560 | It's a moccasin.

01:49:45.060 | It's a modern day moccasin.

01:49:46.680 | But looks okay that you can wear it around in other areas

01:49:49.160 | if you so choose.

01:49:51.320 | You know what the number one healthcare cost in America is?

01:49:54.280 | - What's that?

01:49:55.640 | - Diabetes, heart disease, cancer, low back pain.

01:50:00.640 | - Now what do you attribute low back pain to?

01:50:09.200 | - Well, it's attributed to a lot of things,

01:50:11.240 | but inability to control spinal position,

01:50:14.000 | which starts happening from some breathing issues.

01:50:17.720 | It also happens from the foot.

01:50:20.160 | So there's a lot of stuff,

01:50:21.000 | but everything that I do actually focuses on improving this.

01:50:23.960 | - Yeah.

01:50:24.800 | - And it all starts with the feet.

01:50:26.840 | - This is one thing.

01:50:27.760 | Like this doesn't affect breathing,

01:50:29.080 | but so it does actually affect breathing

01:50:31.240 | to some extent and spinal stabilization.

01:50:32.900 | So the raised heel and toe will make you stride further

01:50:37.040 | because of just how it operates.

01:50:38.880 | But that overstride is a result of opening this.

01:50:42.880 | So we open the pelvis and diaphragm.

01:50:44.600 | Did we talk about that and the impact that that has

01:50:46.400 | for controlling and spine?

01:50:47.280 | Yeah, I think we touched on that.

01:50:49.620 | But all this stuff plays together.

01:50:52.520 | - So the gait affects that.

01:50:53.680 | And so the shoe affects the gait.

01:50:55.280 | And then so it's all connected.

01:50:56.880 | - All connected.

01:50:57.820 | Let me be very purposeful

01:51:00.360 | with some conversation here though.

01:51:01.760 | We've talked about periodization.

01:51:03.700 | This was a big gap.

01:51:04.640 | So people go, yeah, well,

01:51:06.480 | when people started running with those,

01:51:07.880 | they started having injuries

01:51:09.220 | back when the finger company produced those

01:51:12.040 | and didn't do the education around this very simple concept.

01:51:14.800 | You do not walk into the gym if you haven't squatted

01:51:16.720 | and start squatting 225 for max reps every week,

01:51:19.840 | day or every day over day.

01:51:22.100 | And that's what people did

01:51:23.460 | because they weren't told that

01:51:25.680 | you need to build the capacity to do this.

01:51:29.120 | You go wear these and walk around in your office

01:51:31.760 | or wherever all day long,

01:51:32.800 | your feet are gonna hurt.

01:51:33.960 | They're gonna be sore.

01:51:35.060 | Do it for 10% of your time.

01:51:38.560 | Do that for a month, then add some.

01:51:42.760 | That will build the capacity to do this.

01:51:45.120 | And then that's gonna start having

01:51:46.640 | the ability to strengthen, manage the foot.

01:51:48.240 | And there's a whole lot of other stuff.

01:51:49.320 | I've got videos on things that you can do.

01:51:51.800 | Buy whatever you want

01:51:53.200 | or just spend some time out of them.

01:51:55.300 | That's all that I want people to do

01:51:57.800 | because it is so simple

01:51:59.600 | and it has such a profound impact.

01:52:01.920 | - It does.

01:52:02.760 | What I did--

01:52:04.080 | - I noticed when I walked in.

01:52:05.760 | I was like, "Oh, hey, you're spending some time

01:52:07.480 | "without the shoes on."

01:52:09.080 | (both laughing)

01:52:11.120 | - Well, what I did,

01:52:13.080 | I think it's already now two years ago

01:52:14.600 | when I was doing a lot of running,

01:52:16.040 | I'd do a 10-mile run.

01:52:18.020 | I would take my shoes off for the last half mile

01:52:21.000 | and I'd run like that.

01:52:22.200 | And that was, for me, really helpful

01:52:24.200 | to ensure that I have proper form.

01:52:26.920 | Form that minimizes pain on the way I run.

01:52:29.800 | I still like shoes.

01:52:31.140 | I benefit a lot from shoes,

01:52:32.280 | the protection they provide,

01:52:33.480 | but it's for running we're referring to,

01:52:37.480 | especially trail running and so on.

01:52:39.240 | And in the city when there's glass

01:52:41.720 | and all those kinds of things.

01:52:43.400 | But it's really important to have minimal

01:52:45.600 | sort of protection on your feet.

01:52:46.920 | For me, at least it was to figure out

01:52:50.360 | the ways that my form, basic movement,

01:52:53.800 | and the positioning in the foot,

01:52:55.980 | the impact of the foot,

01:52:57.560 | and everything, the lower leg,

01:53:01.200 | the entirety of the torso, really,

01:53:03.320 | how it's improperly positioned

01:53:06.280 | in terms for the objective of minimizing pain.

01:53:08.920 | And the barefoot running really helped fix that for me.

01:53:13.320 | 'Cause I figured out that I need to take shorter steps,

01:53:17.200 | more frequent, all those kinds of things.

01:53:20.340 | And that really helps you figure that out.

01:53:22.080 | - Like, let's be realist about stuff.

01:53:23.880 | Like, spend some time using it, strengthen it.

01:53:28.720 | And I've got some great ways to do that

01:53:31.600 | and learn how to do that.

01:53:32.480 | So, yeah.

01:53:33.660 | - What is a good diet for strength development?

01:53:36.160 | I've, just to give you some context,

01:53:37.920 | I've been eating mostly meat.

01:53:40.040 | Not for strength, mostly for mental performance.

01:53:42.680 | I just enjoy it.

01:53:44.280 | - Yes, you need to have a base level

01:53:46.780 | of protein building blocks for tissue, right?

01:53:50.080 | We need to have enough fats to be able to have

01:53:53.200 | hormones work and key processes in the body.

01:53:56.340 | We need to have, well, you don't need to have

01:53:58.680 | from a performance aspect carbohydrates necessarily,

01:54:01.060 | because the other ones can convert into injury sources.

01:54:03.280 | But for a performance athlete,

01:54:05.400 | carbohydrates can be very beneficial as well.

01:54:09.280 | So, I look at it as you need a base level fats,

01:54:14.280 | you need a base level of proteins,

01:54:16.080 | and then you adjust the carbohydrate intake

01:54:18.660 | based on the needs.

01:54:19.840 | I'm not anti-carbohydrate by any means.

01:54:22.380 | 'Cause a lot of people, well, they look at me now

01:54:25.480 | when they see how lean I am,

01:54:26.840 | and they jump to a conclusion.

01:54:28.320 | You must be keto, you must be carnivore,

01:54:30.120 | you must be whatever.

01:54:30.960 | And it's like, so losing and gaining weight

01:54:33.880 | is simply eating less or eating more.

01:54:37.680 | I mean, and we get so complicated.

01:54:41.660 | Oh, what's your fasting window?

01:54:44.760 | If I'm doing fasting, it's just because it works

01:54:48.320 | with my environment.

01:54:50.280 | Sometimes I do it, sometimes I don't.

01:54:52.760 | All that does is control how much calories that you take.

01:54:56.000 | Big success with keto and carnivore diets.

01:54:58.120 | It's hard to eat a lot and put on weight with those diets.

01:55:03.120 | Protein actually has a thermogenic effect.

01:55:06.940 | And so, you have to have a massive amount of fats

01:55:09.840 | if you have a only meat diet,

01:55:11.680 | because you can literally starve to death.

01:55:13.760 | There's a show where they put people out in the wilderness,

01:55:17.420 | and this guy, the one that won,

01:55:18.900 | one of the ones I looked at,

01:55:19.740 | and they threw him way up past the way out there.

01:55:24.360 | There was nothing, but he somehow got a caribou

01:55:26.400 | and killed it.

01:55:27.240 | And he still lost a pound a day for 30 days with a caribou,

01:55:30.560 | because his fat was stolen by a...

01:55:33.800 | And he could eat all the meat he wanted,

01:55:36.240 | and then he almost got pulled because his weight loss.

01:55:38.840 | But that isn't actually a performance.

01:55:42.360 | So, those type keto and carnivore are not performance diets.

01:55:45.360 | So, they're not gonna be as effective

01:55:48.520 | at supplying the energy needs for high capacity training.

01:55:53.440 | So, don't get me wrong, you can do training,

01:55:54.640 | but you can be a successful athlete with a vegan diet,

01:55:59.640 | but it's not as easy to do it with other diets.

01:56:05.280 | So, and you're missing some base nutrients.

01:56:07.780 | So many nutrients in meat.

01:56:09.620 | I believe having greens in your diet is really beneficial.

01:56:14.480 | Lots of research, but there's people in the other worlds

01:56:16.880 | that argue that you don't need them,

01:56:18.200 | but they help clear organs, provide micronutrients,

01:56:21.320 | all this sort of stuff.

01:56:22.320 | So, I eat simply a whole well-rounded diet,

01:56:25.660 | and I've gone from, I can go from 285 pounds,

01:56:29.840 | squatting a ton of weight, to eating less

01:56:32.400 | and dropping all the way down to seven, 8% body fat

01:56:35.780 | with veins standing out everywhere without a tissue on me,

01:56:39.040 | just with amazing, great tasting food.

01:56:42.480 | To lose weight or be healthy does not mean

01:56:45.040 | that you need to eat flavorless, bland food.

01:56:47.840 | So, that's the main point I try to get across.

01:56:51.360 | - It's eat less to lose weight, eat more to gain weight.

01:56:54.440 | - Yep, make sure that you've got enough protein.

01:56:56.560 | Make sure that you've got your micronutrients covered,

01:56:58.640 | which is gonna cover by eating real food.

01:57:01.080 | Don't go low fat, no fat.

01:57:03.280 | If you want a performance, don't go no carb,

01:57:05.240 | but if it works, any of those things.

01:57:07.640 | So, diet approach.

01:57:08.480 | When you look at diets, understand that they're,

01:57:12.960 | how aggressive they are.

01:57:14.040 | So, like keto can make you lose a lot of weight.

01:57:16.320 | Carnivore can make you lose a lot of weight.

01:57:18.320 | A lot of that up front is actually dropping glycogen stores.

01:57:22.400 | So, you're actually just reducing water

01:57:23.840 | in your muscle and fat tissue,

01:57:25.680 | so, which is why it isn't as great for a performance diet.

01:57:29.200 | But understand that every diet also has a level of discipline

01:57:34.200 | and does it fit your lifestyle.

01:57:37.000 | So, I suggest people don't find a diet.

01:57:40.000 | You need to find a lifestyle because that's what's sustainable.

01:57:42.760 | I hate the word diet to begin with.

01:57:46.040 | What behaviors are sustainable?

01:57:50.160 | And then do that, and then over time,

01:57:52.400 | the things you'll get to where you need to get.

01:57:55.200 | Diet itself, just by the name of it,

01:57:58.480 | is not sustainable because it is a short term thing

01:58:02.500 | to get somewhere.

01:58:04.760 | - Yeah, I tend to try to measure it

01:58:07.000 | 'cause I definitely have a love-hate relationship with food.

01:58:09.960 | I tend to look back and say,

01:58:12.360 | by following this particular protocol, lifestyle, whatever,

01:58:17.760 | what was the level of happiness?

01:58:20.260 | - Yes.

01:58:21.100 | - So, not like weight loss or weight gain

01:58:24.560 | or all those kinds of things.

01:58:25.500 | It's the entirety of the picture.

01:58:26.820 | Productivity, just feeling good throughout the day.

01:58:29.520 | Socially also, like interacting with people

01:58:32.600 | because so much of human connection,

01:58:35.120 | like I mentioned before, is over food.

01:58:37.720 | And if you're gonna limit yourself in that regard,

01:58:40.000 | you're limiting a certain fundamental aspect of life.

01:58:43.100 | - A number of years ago,

01:58:45.360 | I did like 20 to 22 hour fasts every day.

01:58:49.840 | And I'm like, well, this doesn't work.

01:58:51.200 | I can't do business lunches and stuff like that.

01:58:53.280 | So, when I was in my fasting thing,

01:58:54.480 | I went to a 16 so I could have a light lunch

01:58:56.840 | just for the social aspect of it

01:58:58.760 | and to perform that.

01:59:00.080 | - That's funny.

01:59:01.680 | - And then that's why the typical bodybuilding,

01:59:04.440 | like the eight meal a day diet,

01:59:06.920 | has never worked for me because I've always been

01:59:08.920 | a very bit, like trying to fit that

01:59:10.640 | between meetings and other stuff.

01:59:12.800 | What that diet provides is that just,

01:59:14.880 | you get less bloat and distention of a larger meal.

01:59:18.120 | But at the end of the day, you get the same exact results.

01:59:20.680 | Pick a lifestyle, live that.

01:59:23.040 | You can have really great tasting food.

01:59:26.080 | And that, to me, is the same.

01:59:28.080 | And this is why I'm really hitting this point

01:59:30.160 | because also with the dieting and the approach,

01:59:33.120 | like, oh, I'm gonna do this.

01:59:34.520 | And people pick these chicken and broccoli recipes

01:59:38.360 | and guess what?

01:59:39.320 | You're going to break.

01:59:40.680 | If you do not enjoy it, you will break.

01:59:45.560 | So, it is a very important point.

01:59:50.400 | - Well, I also slightly push back or maybe to elaborate,

01:59:55.400 | if you don't enjoy moderation,

01:59:59.280 | for me particularly, I have trouble moderating

02:00:02.680 | certain things, most foods, I would say.

02:00:05.720 | So, my source of happiness comes with foods,

02:00:09.400 | even if they're bland, the ones I can enjoy,

02:00:12.360 | but enjoy moderation.

02:00:14.120 | So, there's, I mean, I enjoy every piece of food.

02:00:16.160 | So, it's like, if you can enjoy the full lifestyle,

02:00:21.160 | it's not just the particular experience,

02:00:23.680 | but like the full journey.

02:00:25.640 | - Yep, does it fit your lifestyle?

02:00:27.640 | - Yeah. - Yep.

02:00:29.400 | So, let me ask about a complicated topic

02:00:33.280 | that's sometimes a bit controversial, which is steroids.

02:00:37.160 | It may be TRT, testosterone replacement therapy.

02:00:41.880 | What role does that play in strength training?

02:00:44.680 | - All right, we're gonna go there.

02:00:46.920 | - Let's go there.

02:00:48.120 | - Yeah, but it's an important discussion to have.

02:00:52.600 | I think that it's something that I can be

02:00:55.320 | more transparent on.

02:00:57.880 | In my past, I wasn't able to, due to the career that I had.

02:01:01.600 | So, just like covering that stuff in a public forum,

02:01:06.600 | when you're highly looked at being an executive

02:01:11.520 | for recruiting and other stuff, like,

02:01:13.680 | it was an area I had to just kind of pass on, right?

02:01:17.840 | - Yes.

02:01:18.680 | - Now, I've used steroids.

02:01:21.680 | I've used them since I was 33.

02:01:24.680 | And I basically just use TRT now, after my big squat.

02:01:29.680 | So, for 10 years, I used them.

02:01:33.480 | And there's some interesting components to this.

02:01:37.960 | So, one is just the gray area

02:01:41.880 | of what we call performance enhancing supplements.

02:01:44.480 | So, performance, was it PEDs?

02:01:47.720 | That the line of what defines a PED is ever shifting

02:01:54.880 | and it's shifting based on society norms,

02:01:58.120 | cultural norms, government bodying agencies,

02:02:00.400 | all these sorts of stuff.

02:02:01.520 | So, I'm not making excuses here.

02:02:03.000 | So, I just wanna elaborate before I actually start

02:02:05.280 | digging into the details here.

02:02:07.360 | Because performance enhancing,

02:02:09.760 | I could take sodium bicarbonate

02:02:11.920 | and enhance my ability to perform deadlifts for reps.

02:02:17.040 | Guess what?

02:02:17.880 | I did that for my Guinness World Record

02:02:19.040 | for deadlifts in a minute, okay?

02:02:20.960 | People do it for rowing or other,

02:02:22.840 | they use high capacity type stuff.

02:02:26.880 | It is performance enhancing.

02:02:28.520 | It is a chemical.

02:02:29.700 | It is baking soda.

02:02:31.760 | All right?

02:02:34.040 | They're not able to make it illegal

02:02:36.320 | because everybody eats bread.

02:02:39.240 | Well, not everyone.

02:02:40.240 | And so, it's a little hard to test for,

02:02:42.880 | no matter what you do at any level.

02:02:45.160 | So, that's an extreme example.

02:02:47.000 | But other examples, you were drinking an energy drink

02:02:50.440 | in that cup there a little while ago.

02:02:52.800 | And in America, you can get an energy drink

02:02:55.080 | with 240 milligrams of caffeine in it.

02:02:57.800 | In Canada, that's too dangerous.

02:02:59.980 | You can only get 140.

02:03:02.040 | But you can go buy Ephedra.

02:03:03.520 | And Ephedra is illegal in America.

02:03:07.040 | And so, these things bounce back and forth all the time.

02:03:10.380 | I could take Yohimbi.

02:03:12.560 | And in Europe or Australia,

02:03:15.560 | it is a drug and classified.

02:03:17.840 | In America, it is not.

02:03:20.960 | It's an herbal root.

02:03:23.400 | And a lot, I actually haven't one of my supplements,

02:03:25.660 | except for the overseas version.

02:03:27.880 | Anyway, the point I'm getting is,

02:03:29.800 | no matter what you do at some point,

02:03:31.900 | by someone's standards, you are cheating.

02:03:35.760 | And because it is, you're taking something that,

02:03:41.920 | but you could work around these things

02:03:44.340 | with nutritional ways or other ways

02:03:46.540 | versus taking a chemical.

02:03:47.880 | And there's whole lots of ways to do this.

02:03:49.580 | But it's like, oh no, it's steroids.

02:03:51.080 | It's not.

02:03:51.920 | It's injectable.

02:03:52.740 | It's not.

02:03:53.580 | Well, somewhere, there's a culture or a person

02:03:55.960 | that will say you're cheating, no matter what.

02:03:57.720 | So, it's a self-defined,

02:03:59.520 | you need to define it for yourself

02:04:00.800 | unless you're competing in an organization

02:04:03.000 | that has testing.

02:04:04.180 | Then it's a straight ethical thing.

02:04:06.760 | And it's either right or wrong, in my opinion.

02:04:09.640 | That's kind of the overall dilemma of it is,

02:04:13.180 | if you want to see what you're totally capable of,

02:04:17.120 | you have to decide yourself what's okay or not

02:04:21.800 | to that level.

02:04:23.160 | There is no body that can say something yes or no.

02:04:28.160 | - Yeah, when there's an event like the Olympics,

02:04:31.580 | maybe then you have a standard

02:04:33.900 | that you're all trying to adhere to.

02:04:35.980 | And then it makes sense to keep a certain,

02:04:38.260 | like to be within, there's an ethical imperative.

02:04:41.300 | - So, yeah, I'm not talking about that.

02:04:43.500 | I'm agreeing to compete in this by these rules.

02:04:46.900 | - Yeah, but when you're trying to maximize

02:04:49.700 | your own performance, whatever that journey is,

02:04:51.800 | whatever that goal is, that's a different story.

02:04:54.080 | And it's not easy to figure that out.

02:04:56.740 | - You go, you're just like dancing around the subject,

02:04:59.780 | whatever.

02:05:00.640 | Well, guess what?

02:05:02.340 | I've got a prescription for growth hormone and testosterone.

02:05:05.920 | It's legal for me to take.

02:05:07.700 | And you know what?

02:05:09.100 | A lot of the people that are in front of the camera

02:05:10.980 | in the media, politicians and news people,

02:05:14.820 | and the people that are there saying the no drug stuff,

02:05:18.660 | they're going to anti-aging clinics to look better.

02:05:21.700 | And they have a prescription for growth hormone

02:05:23.820 | and testosterone themselves.

02:05:25.800 | But in their eyes, it's okay.

02:05:28.820 | It is a prescription from their doctor

02:05:30.580 | because they have the money to do it.

02:05:33.140 | So it's legal and it's fine.

02:05:37.700 | If I, it's interesting in Oregon,

02:05:40.940 | anybody, and I don't know what other states,

02:05:43.820 | over the age of 16, can, without parents' permission,

02:05:47.700 | by the way, walk into a gender clinic,

02:05:50.220 | and as a female, and get a prescription for testosterone.

02:05:53.220 | But as an athlete, if I've got low testosterone,

02:05:59.040 | I am so low, I've got depression,

02:06:01.940 | I can't have sex with my wife,

02:06:03.940 | it's affecting my quality of life,

02:06:05.980 | I will have to fight tooth and nail

02:06:08.220 | to get testosterone just as a prescription.

02:06:10.940 | And then I will get kicked out of my organization

02:06:12.860 | for competing.

02:06:13.700 | So you understand how gray this stuff gets?

02:06:18.380 | - Do you think the stigma on testosterone

02:06:21.260 | is the reason we're not having a healthy conversation

02:06:24.500 | about when it's proper?

02:06:26.300 | Like, what are the proper uses of testosterone

02:06:28.580 | in an athlete's life and just the regular human life?

02:06:32.140 | - Yeah, absolutely.

02:06:33.700 | I mean, and it's just, it's like anything.

02:06:35.700 | It's like I said, it is lines that we pick and draw.

02:06:38.900 | Anytime you put that out there,

02:06:40.660 | people are going to have different opinions

02:06:42.180 | where those lines are.

02:06:43.180 | So now when it comes to strength,

02:06:44.980 | here's an interesting thing.

02:06:46.100 | In powerlifting, there's tested federations

02:06:48.820 | and non-tested federations.

02:06:50.040 | So we can literally look at the statistical data

02:06:52.460 | and actually find out what do steroids do?

02:06:56.400 | And so it's pretty clear that steroids provide

02:06:58.980 | at about a 10% increase in strength on average over not.

02:07:03.980 | Now, that does take out the fact that steroids

02:07:06.740 | will put you in, allow you to put on more mass

02:07:09.460 | so you'll go up a weight class a lot of times.

02:07:12.900 | So as a whole, you could definitely lift more probably

02:07:16.180 | than the 10% over time, right?

02:07:19.460 | And then we think about steroids as the ability

02:07:21.340 | to just put on muscle.

02:07:23.140 | And here's where things get a little interesting,

02:07:25.580 | even with people that use steroids,

02:07:27.180 | is not understanding the neurological impacts

02:07:29.700 | that steroids have.

02:07:31.340 | 'Cause you could take some steroids right now

02:07:34.400 | and be stronger in 10 minutes.

02:07:36.800 | That's clearly not done anything, you know,

02:07:39.360 | from a physiology standpoint to make you stronger,

02:07:42.000 | but we have tapped in neurologically to elicit those gains.

02:07:46.880 | And there's a whole lot that happens neurologically.

02:07:49.400 | - Like how much science is there

02:07:53.520 | in terms of all the different ways you could take steroids,

02:07:56.200 | which kinds of steroids, the timing, the dose,

02:08:00.240 | all of those things to develop the neurological,

02:08:03.060 | the physical, the skeletal, like all the,

02:08:05.640 | you know, you've talked with such depth

02:08:07.840 | about the science of strength building in terms of form,

02:08:12.840 | in terms of the equipment that you use.

02:08:16.280 | It seems like a component, you know,

02:08:19.800 | the use of steroids should be an equal level

02:08:23.680 | of scientific rigor when applying them.

02:08:25.720 | - It is.

02:08:26.560 | Now, the research is harder to get because of what it is,

02:08:31.560 | but there is a lot of research that was done

02:08:34.840 | when they were legal.

02:08:36.280 | So they were legal up in through the,

02:08:38.080 | through I think the mid 80s.

02:08:39.920 | And so a lot of the classical high benefit

02:08:44.920 | to low risk steroids were studied.

02:08:48.560 | And then since then, there's a lot of like designer steroids

02:08:51.400 | or new steroids that have come up

02:08:52.900 | that don't have a lot of research around safety and risk

02:08:57.520 | and things of that nature.

02:08:58.440 | And we can't do that because it's, you know,

02:09:00.960 | because of the legality around these things.

02:09:04.280 | But some of the stuff on the neurological function

02:09:06.520 | is really just understanding how that chemical structure

02:09:10.920 | works and what it's doing to the neurotransmitters,

02:09:14.680 | what it's doing.

02:09:15.660 | And so some of it is really talking to people

02:09:20.960 | that have experience with it.

02:09:22.440 | And the other is understanding those structures

02:09:25.760 | and what they do.

02:09:26.960 | The neurological component, I think,

02:09:28.840 | is more interesting than most

02:09:32.160 | because the most steroids act through

02:09:35.000 | increasing muscle protein synthesis.

02:09:36.960 | That's how you add more muscle

02:09:38.600 | is they have an anti-catabolic effect

02:09:41.700 | and they have a muscle protein synthesis enhancing effect.

02:09:45.360 | So it reduces the amount of muscle that you waste

02:09:48.080 | and increases the amount of muscle that you put on.

02:09:51.280 | But the neurological component is tremendously valuable

02:09:56.280 | for what it can do for your training workout.

02:10:00.600 | Like if I handle more load over time,

02:10:02.800 | I'm going to make more progress.

02:10:04.660 | If I can actually just stimulate more neurological effects

02:10:07.380 | for a specific event, it's gonna have an impact, right?

02:10:11.640 | But there's other ways that you can tap into this too.

02:10:14.340 | Things that you can tap into mentally with great practice,

02:10:16.960 | with meditation and other stuff

02:10:18.480 | that will have the same effect.

02:10:21.480 | People probably think I'm over speaking,

02:10:22.960 | especially steroid users that are listening to this.

02:10:25.640 | Well, at least I'm talking out my ass, but I'm not.

02:10:29.200 | Because I have experience with this stuff on both ends.

02:10:34.200 | And some of those areas,

02:10:35.700 | a lot of people don't have the experience with that.

02:10:39.240 | - What I've kind of heard from people

02:10:41.720 | is the confidence that comes with steroids.

02:10:44.760 | It feels like, not to call it placebo,

02:10:47.980 | but it seems like the psychological benefits

02:10:50.280 | of steroids is huge.

02:10:51.680 | And that you feel like there's a confidence

02:10:55.760 | that seems to be coupled with the actual biological.

02:10:59.160 | - And chemical effects.

02:11:00.520 | - I have actually a neurological condition.

02:11:03.280 | So I actually don't feel a lot of that stuff that people,

02:11:05.960 | 'cause there's certain steroids that people will like,

02:11:08.640 | your very extreme ones,

02:11:12.220 | that would make somebody bite someone's ear off

02:11:15.200 | in a fight, for example.

02:11:16.560 | - Almost like aggression.

02:11:19.760 | - And they literally do nothing.

02:11:21.180 | I'm always just chilling.

02:11:22.960 | I don't have an effect. - That's great.

02:11:26.760 | - But neurologically, they're still having those effects,

02:11:29.960 | but I don't get those feels

02:11:31.200 | that other people have from those.

02:11:34.240 | But yes, there's that immediate boost in aggression

02:11:38.440 | and the confidence and stuff that come with

02:11:39.920 | a lot of those ones that deal on the neurological.

02:11:42.840 | Overall, a good sense of well-being,

02:11:44.640 | just like from being on testosterone.

02:11:46.640 | It's gonna affect your mood.

02:11:48.840 | And it's interesting.

02:11:49.960 | So testosterone replacement therapy,

02:11:52.320 | if we walk down that path now and kind of switch gears,

02:11:56.240 | we find that men today have declining testosterone

02:12:00.280 | over what has historically been in the past.

02:12:02.880 | So right now, I think a 35-year-old testosterone

02:12:07.020 | is shown to be about half what it was just 50 years ago.

02:12:12.020 | So I don't know if we could argue the point.

02:12:15.600 | We don't really have the science to validate any of it,

02:12:18.060 | but it could be society as far as the impact

02:12:22.200 | that it's having on the mental health.

02:12:26.200 | For men, it could be the estrogens floating around

02:12:29.200 | in the water from all the chemicals and birth control

02:12:32.400 | and all this sort of stuff.

02:12:33.400 | Could be a lot of things.

02:12:34.680 | But it is a fact that average testosterone

02:12:39.120 | is significantly lower,

02:12:40.560 | and that is going to end up affecting life,

02:12:43.640 | quality of life, as well as your longevity,

02:12:46.220 | because it will affect those things.

02:12:47.600 | But on the other end, steroids and TRT,

02:12:50.480 | particularly steroids, come with a lot

02:12:52.240 | of negative health benefits.

02:12:54.200 | Not benefits, a lot of negative health ramifications.

02:12:57.680 | And so if I knew what I know now,

02:13:01.140 | I don't know that I would have gone that path.

02:13:02.780 | I didn't, I didn't until I was 33,

02:13:04.520 | which is kind of an outlier for a strength athlete.

02:13:07.600 | I was a four times body weight deadlifter,

02:13:10.600 | 800 plus pounds at 198, and I was pretty dang strong

02:13:15.600 | before I went down that path.

02:13:18.560 | And that's 'cause I wanted to see what I was capable of,

02:13:21.000 | but I was reaching a point that it was either

02:13:23.480 | I need to do that or not.

02:13:24.560 | My testosterone, my natural testosterone levels

02:13:27.120 | were actually, I think below 300 is actually the threshold.

02:13:31.200 | So I was being told to go on TRT for the last couple years,

02:13:34.920 | probably just 'cause I was pushing so hard

02:13:36.480 | and the stress level was driving my test down.

02:13:38.480 | So it was self-imposed, more than likely.

02:13:41.320 | But I put it off because I wanted to set

02:13:43.420 | all the drug-free records.

02:13:44.940 | And I set the ones that I wanted, and then it was 33.

02:13:47.560 | I'm entering the age category,

02:13:49.760 | and I'm like, I'm gonna go on TRT.

02:13:52.200 | I did not feel like I should be with TRT.

02:13:55.160 | Personally, my ethical standard was

02:13:57.040 | I shouldn't be competing in tested events anymore.

02:13:59.580 | There are federations that will allow you with your,

02:14:02.840 | you show up with your script and you do your test

02:14:04.960 | and you're below a certain level, but you're still on.

02:14:07.960 | But for me, I'm like, that's not okay.

02:14:09.440 | - You weren't comfortable.

02:14:10.280 | - So I'm like, I may as well at this point use steroids.

02:14:14.840 | But since then, understanding all those ramifications,

02:14:18.340 | I might not have gone down that route

02:14:20.960 | quite so fast and easily.

02:14:23.080 | But I continued because I also have a lot of resources

02:14:27.920 | that other people don't, and being able to assess

02:14:30.280 | and understand and put things in place to mitigate that.

02:14:32.760 | So you need to be, and the other thing is,

02:14:34.680 | once you go on, it's literally a decision for life.

02:14:37.760 | But realistically is, because your quality of life,

02:14:44.400 | your feeling is going to be enhanced quite a bit,

02:14:47.400 | and you're not gonna wanna go back.

02:14:49.080 | And if you go back, it's going to be less

02:14:50.680 | than it was before.

02:14:51.780 | That's how the endocrine system works.

02:14:54.840 | There are ways to try to recover and bring that up,

02:14:56.740 | but it might be a while.

02:14:58.440 | And if you've been on for a while,

02:14:59.640 | it definitely is not an option.

02:15:01.880 | So those are big things that people need to understand

02:15:04.920 | that you're going to have some things in there.

02:15:07.360 | And even TRT has some potential,

02:15:10.800 | especially at higher levels,

02:15:12.900 | that it's going to increase the risk for prostate cancer.

02:15:17.900 | It's going to potentially cause some hypertrophy

02:15:22.260 | of the left ventricle of the heart

02:15:23.740 | and some potential plaque buildup

02:15:25.540 | of some of those key arteries around there

02:15:27.300 | that's going to have an impact

02:15:28.500 | on your cardiovascular health.

02:15:30.640 | There's things that you can do, again,

02:15:32.560 | but everything is like the shoe story, right?

02:15:35.060 | Where I'm anti-shoe, but I'm going,

02:15:37.700 | well, we could put Band-Aids on this.

02:15:39.500 | - Yeah.

02:15:40.340 | - So it's--

02:15:42.380 | - So there's a quality of life that comes with it,

02:15:44.060 | the increase in quality of life.

02:15:45.660 | And if you do it correctly, I think--

02:15:48.420 | - For me, I definitely would not live without TRT,

02:15:50.500 | even with knowing what I know now.

02:15:53.260 | This age and the quality of life

02:15:55.740 | and being able to be there, have the energy, the recovery.

02:16:00.700 | That's a big thing where all this, though,

02:16:01.940 | I talked about muscle protein synthesis

02:16:04.420 | and anti-catabolism as being big drivers,

02:16:07.420 | but recovery is the other big aspect that they offer,

02:16:12.040 | probably as a result of those,

02:16:13.380 | but those are going to be the big enhancements.

02:16:17.220 | So just doing steroids,

02:16:20.140 | steroids is going to increase

02:16:22.220 | all the other stuff that you do.

02:16:23.740 | So if you have good training, you have good diet,

02:16:26.500 | good quality of sleep, like all this other stuff,

02:16:28.580 | then you can take advantage of that.

02:16:31.180 | But you could choose steroids and nobody would know.

02:16:33.780 | And honestly, you go down to 24-hour fitness

02:16:37.100 | and you'll see a bunch of late 19 to 21-year-old kids

02:16:41.420 | that are all kind of red and 150 pounds

02:16:43.800 | that don't look like anything,

02:16:46.320 | and a bunch of them will be using steroids

02:16:49.380 | because they're not,

02:16:52.280 | like, so it's not going to make a champion.

02:16:55.420 | - Like you said, 10% at most.

02:16:58.060 | - Guess what?

02:16:58.900 | I was already at an elite level.

02:16:59.940 | I was one of the best in the world before I started using.

02:17:03.280 | It doesn't do that.

02:17:05.880 | It does a 10% increase at best.

02:17:08.760 | And that's proven in the statistics, which is interesting

02:17:10.760 | 'cause most people don't know this.

02:17:13.320 | The data is right there.

02:17:15.000 | - Yeah, and that's why I'm often saddened

02:17:20.220 | by maybe the negative view of somebody like Lance Armstrong,

02:17:25.220 | who was one of the greatest athletes in history.

02:17:31.360 | - And everybody else that he was competing against.

02:17:33.400 | I'm sorry.

02:17:34.720 | I hate to blow anybody's bubble,

02:17:36.680 | but regardless of I told you my ethical pieces

02:17:39.880 | with saying that you're going to be at something

02:17:41.480 | at an elite level,

02:17:42.520 | you look at a lot of those big figures out there,

02:17:47.840 | when their income and your life relies on it,

02:17:51.840 | you're going to push those limits.

02:17:53.000 | So maybe my ethical would change

02:17:55.580 | if I was in that position too,

02:17:57.640 | because here's the thing where I believe,

02:17:59.960 | like someone is,

02:18:01.760 | I think people should avoid steroids.

02:18:04.760 | TRT, probably something worth taking a look

02:18:09.120 | at what your levels are when you're in the 35 to 45 range

02:18:12.000 | and see what decision you decide to make from there.

02:18:14.080 | And that's a decision that you make

02:18:15.240 | for the rest of your life.

02:18:16.540 | The only times that you should be taking a look at steroids

02:18:19.000 | is if it's funding your life,

02:18:21.920 | it's creating that it is your job and it's doing like,

02:18:25.340 | and honestly, it was for me.

02:18:27.080 | So was it the only thing?

02:18:30.800 | No.

02:18:31.640 | - No.

02:18:32.720 | - If you want to get into neurology,

02:18:35.040 | neurotransmitters and alcohol,

02:18:37.040 | there's really interesting discussion

02:18:38.400 | on performance enhancement.

02:18:39.880 | So when I lift heavy,

02:18:41.300 | and so I always promote it like not more than a drink or two

02:18:45.160 | like once or twice a month is what all I'm talking about

02:18:47.240 | when I'm saying this.

02:18:48.840 | - What's the timing of the drink that we're talking about?

02:18:51.320 | - It's about three to five minutes.

02:18:52.760 | - Before?

02:18:53.600 | - Yes.

02:18:54.420 | - And we're talking about beer?

02:18:56.320 | - It doesn't matter the source.

02:18:58.600 | So shots are the easiest.

02:19:01.600 | You want something that is not going to have

02:19:03.080 | some sort of regurgitory effect or bloating effect

02:19:06.240 | or anything like that.

02:19:07.800 | But you want to have the quick hit of energy.

02:19:09.520 | So it's a preferential energy source,

02:19:11.280 | moves above ketones, carbs, everything.

02:19:14.440 | It's seven calories per gram,

02:19:15.840 | but then there's some really interesting things

02:19:17.960 | that happen.

02:19:18.800 | Spikes blood pressure,

02:19:19.680 | which is going to make weights feel lighter.

02:19:21.600 | So when you're in your early 20s

02:19:23.400 | and you're trying to hit up some attractive person

02:19:26.720 | at the bar, you're with your buddies,

02:19:29.160 | and you're like, ah, you know,

02:19:30.360 | and you got second guess, oh, should I, should I?

02:19:32.360 | And they go, have a shot of liquid courage.

02:19:35.760 | And you have one.

02:19:36.820 | And all of a sudden the second thoughts,

02:19:39.680 | the second guessing, all that drops away.

02:19:41.480 | Like you're focused in the moment and you walk over

02:19:44.680 | and you actually perform a little better

02:19:46.640 | like conversation-wise than you normally would.

02:19:48.160 | Now, if you have five or six and then go over,

02:19:50.160 | you're gonna make a fool of yourself.

02:19:51.000 | So it's all about timing and amount,

02:19:52.640 | but there is a reason that that happens.

02:19:54.480 | So anyway, I'm known for promoting

02:19:56.380 | this whiskey and deadlift concept.

02:19:58.400 | - I love this.

02:19:59.240 | - But it works.

02:20:00.060 | - You're talking like the Eastern block.

02:20:01.760 | - That's where I stole it from

02:20:03.720 | 'cause I was watching all these Russian lifters

02:20:06.320 | would have a shot of vodka or something

02:20:08.520 | before they go lift.

02:20:09.380 | And I'm like, there's something here.

02:20:11.200 | So I started experimenting with it and I'm like, that works.

02:20:14.840 | And then I started researching.

02:20:15.880 | Nobody talks about this stuff.

02:20:17.120 | So it takes a while to start piecing together

02:20:19.400 | all the stuff that actually happens to make that happen.

02:20:22.320 | But it moves away the things that you're going to,

02:20:26.120 | the concerns about the ramifications in the future

02:20:28.920 | and the other stuff.

02:20:29.760 | So the, but brings you into the moment

02:20:32.720 | and then the dopamine hit in the other,

02:20:34.840 | and then it enhances whatever mood that you're in.

02:20:37.640 | But all of a sudden you get in the state much easier.

02:20:42.640 | And so it's really, really interesting,

02:20:46.640 | but it's a very small amount needed

02:20:49.660 | and very time sensitive,

02:20:51.240 | but it can be so much more powerful

02:20:53.880 | than like drugs people use for this stuff.

02:20:57.000 | It ties really together with meditative state

02:20:59.160 | and other pieces to get you into that flow state.

02:21:02.920 | Those thoughts about failure, what if, what,

02:21:06.120 | like all that you get into that zone, that moment, that time.

02:21:10.960 | Anyway, so interesting an alcoholic is promoting,

02:21:15.080 | out, you know, but-

02:21:16.480 | - No, but there's an important point here,

02:21:18.120 | which not often talked about.

02:21:19.540 | I think it is fascinating that because you can get

02:21:22.600 | into so much trouble with alcohol when using excess,

02:21:25.960 | people don't often talk about the positive aspects

02:21:29.280 | of alcohol, even in your college years.

02:21:32.740 | - It had a lasting effect on who I am as a person.

02:21:37.320 | - I don't think people give enough credit

02:21:39.480 | to the positive aspect.

02:21:41.160 | See, you could have accomplished a lot

02:21:43.080 | of those same things with a little more moderation,

02:21:45.280 | which I think people should talk about more,

02:21:47.860 | which is like the way to open up a personality,

02:21:51.320 | like the flowering of the full character and the weirdness

02:21:54.680 | and the beauty of who you are as a human being

02:21:58.440 | could be opened up with alcohol,

02:22:00.080 | and that's really interesting to think about.

02:22:01.880 | - You should try some podcasts with a shot in these.

02:22:06.000 | - Yeah.

02:22:06.840 | - You know, actually, I do this sometimes

02:22:10.000 | with myself and guests, and it will change the conversation,

02:22:13.000 | lubricates the conversation, definitely not the excess,

02:22:17.120 | and which is what I learned, 'cause I went all the way in

02:22:19.800 | because I do everything at extremes.

02:22:22.120 | So it was a really hard lesson that took me a lot of time

02:22:24.920 | to unwind, but it is interesting,

02:22:28.960 | and people don't discuss those things,

02:22:30.760 | 'cause it's either this or this.

02:22:33.040 | - You're one of the greatest strength athletes of all time,

02:22:36.900 | so it's worthwhile to consider how you optimize

02:22:41.280 | the feats of strength that you reach for

02:22:44.480 | with things like steroids.

02:22:47.280 | It makes perfect sense, and I think that was,

02:22:50.480 | from my perspective, I think it was probably

02:22:52.160 | the right decision.

02:22:53.040 | You've achieved something incredible

02:22:54.520 | that inspires a huge number of people.

02:22:57.500 | That's it, and you've shown to yourself and to the world

02:23:01.680 | what the human body can accomplish.

02:23:03.600 | - Yep. - That's incredible.

02:23:04.600 | - And no matter if I push to a less weight

02:23:08.000 | and if I disclosed everything that I did,

02:23:10.300 | and I wasn't using steroids, in my opinion,

02:23:13.800 | if we went through everything, there were people

02:23:15.920 | that would say, "You're using performance enhancing."

02:23:18.000 | - Yeah. - No matter what.

02:23:18.840 | Like, it is straight up, so you just need

02:23:21.080 | to be okay with it yourself, and so I had to make the call.

02:23:23.480 | I wanna see what the true potential is of,

02:23:27.800 | let's throw everything out the window,

02:23:30.480 | unless I feel it's a risk from a health standpoint

02:23:33.440 | that I'm not willing to take on,

02:23:35.040 | because that's, how do I, like,

02:23:39.160 | it's just picking and choosing.

02:23:40.320 | - Yeah. - It's just picking

02:23:41.600 | and choosing.

02:23:42.520 | Here's what I want to know.

02:23:43.800 | This is what I want to be able to try to achieve,

02:23:46.240 | and so yeah, yeah, that's what I did.

02:23:48.360 | - And what you did is incredible.

02:23:50.600 | Like, it's just awe-inspiring.

02:23:52.280 | - And what Lance Armstrong did was incredible.

02:23:54.400 | - Yeah, and-- - And that eats me up,

02:23:57.000 | and what's funny is the people that bash him

02:23:58.600 | are on the media or politicians or maybe some actors,

02:24:01.840 | and guess what?

02:24:03.360 | A ton of them are doing the same thing.

02:24:06.400 | It's hypocrisy at its finest, trust me.

02:24:08.520 | - But-- - How many of those figures

02:24:10.720 | you're watching in movies that love to talk,

02:24:12.920 | be political and do this and the news and all this,

02:24:17.440 | I'm telling you, there's anti-aging clinics

02:24:20.960 | like all over California and everywhere else.

02:24:25.960 | Who do you think keeps them in business?

02:24:28.520 | - Well-- - It's not a competitive lifter,

02:24:29.960 | I'll tell you that.

02:24:31.280 | - Well, that's-- - And they're using peptides

02:24:33.440 | and SARMs and all sorts of like--

02:24:37.560 | - Wait, you're speaking to the hypocrisy.

02:24:39.520 | I also want to speak to the fact, you know,

02:24:42.160 | somebody who's a friend of mine, David Goggins,

02:24:44.080 | I don't know if you know who that is,

02:24:45.160 | ultra marathon runner, Navy SEAL.

02:24:48.440 | He gets-- - Pretty incredible person,

02:24:49.640 | yeah. - Incredible human being

02:24:50.880 | and he gets criticism like, you know,

02:24:53.560 | what you're doing is bad for the body,

02:24:56.760 | you know, you're pushing yourself too far.

02:24:59.140 | I find that the people that criticize are often people

02:25:04.520 | that haven't truly pushed themselves to the limit.

02:25:08.440 | They haven't actually worked hard in their life.

02:25:11.040 | When you work hard, you realize how incredible it is

02:25:15.760 | that a human being can dedicate themselves

02:25:18.360 | so fully to an effort, the way you did,

02:25:21.960 | the way David Goggins does,

02:25:24.560 | the way the greatest athletes do.

02:25:27.400 | And there's nothing that should be said

02:25:30.440 | beyond just sitting back in awe

02:25:32.540 | that humans can achieve that.

02:25:33.840 | And that inspires me to do the best,

02:25:36.520 | whatever the hell I do, to be the best version of that.

02:25:40.040 | There's something about like athletic feats,

02:25:42.760 | especially like strength,

02:25:44.960 | that just inspire us to do the best,

02:25:49.060 | to be the best version of ourselves.

02:25:51.500 | I don't know, that's the only thing you should be saying

02:25:54.340 | as opposed to criticizing some little detail of this

02:25:59.280 | and that, it's just awe-inspiring that you push yourself.

02:26:03.520 | - And then talk to anybody that is at that level,

02:26:05.420 | and this is funny, like in competitive sports,

02:26:07.300 | like you go online and people, it's just bash, bash, bash,

02:26:09.740 | bash, bash, bash, bash, bash.

02:26:10.780 | You go talk to anybody, anybody, anybody

02:26:14.420 | that's a high-level athlete within that field,

02:26:16.820 | and nobody has a single bad thing to say about each other.

02:26:19.960 | But all this chitter-chatter down there,

02:26:22.780 | I mean, I know exactly what you're saying.

02:26:25.300 | - So if you, I would say,

02:26:27.580 | 'cause I have love for all those folks,

02:26:29.980 | especially when you're younger,

02:26:31.020 | you have a little bit of that desire to criticize others.

02:26:36.020 | Like, I think that should be channeled

02:26:38.020 | in improving your own life.

02:26:39.940 | - Anytime that you feel that way,

02:26:42.420 | that is when you need to turn inward.

02:26:44.780 | And it's hard to do, but there is a reason

02:26:48.220 | that you have those emotions around someone else

02:26:52.660 | and what they're doing,

02:26:54.140 | that you have an opportunity to look at yourself

02:26:57.260 | and know why you feel that way.

02:27:00.620 | And that, guess what, that's gonna be the hard thing to do.

02:27:02.860 | That's gonna be the thing, again,

02:27:03.920 | that's stirring you a little bit,

02:27:05.600 | 'cause it's so much easier to sit there

02:27:08.420 | and, or talk to your confidant or whatever

02:27:11.060 | instead of go, why does that bother me?

02:27:14.540 | Why does what that person doing

02:27:16.340 | or what that person's achieving bother me?

02:27:20.480 | - It's a good difficult question that I often ask others,

02:27:25.500 | whether it's better to work hard or work smart.

02:27:31.260 | I like to ask that question

02:27:33.100 | because it helps me get a sense of the human being.

02:27:36.860 | And I think I, let me just say,

02:27:40.060 | like I often like people that answer that with work hard.

02:27:45.060 | Even though the quote unquote right answer is work smart,

02:27:53.500 | meaning like finding the optimal, efficient way

02:27:57.900 | to achieve a certain goal,

02:28:00.180 | I find that people that answer work smart

02:28:03.340 | don't actually find the optimal,

02:28:06.280 | efficient way to achieve a goal.

02:28:08.540 | It seems like the people that at least,

02:28:10.540 | certainly early in life, strive to work their ass off,

02:28:14.740 | even that means doing the inefficient, the dumb thing,

02:28:18.740 | just to learn the mistake.

02:28:20.940 | The spirit behind, the human spirit behind the person

02:28:24.260 | that says work hard is the one that I connect with.

02:28:28.340 | But I'm torn, especially in the work culture

02:28:30.900 | and the tech sector where people answer work smart.

02:28:33.340 | What would you, what would you say about that tension?

02:28:37.980 | This definitely encompasses like,

02:28:40.180 | I'm the intellectual and I'm the meathead.

02:28:44.180 | I'm the work around the clock and go fix the processes

02:28:49.180 | and make it so much better type person, right?

02:28:52.340 | That's me and that's everything,

02:28:54.500 | that's my life story, right?

02:28:56.500 | Busting your ass to find the easiest way possible.

02:28:59.580 | To both.

02:29:00.860 | So like I will build a custom hard drive

02:29:06.700 | or a custom hydraulic cart that will lift my plates

02:29:10.500 | up to the height of my squat so that I can minimize,

02:29:15.340 | I roll it over next to it and then minimize the effort

02:29:17.780 | of it going on and off.

02:29:19.940 | To be able to lift the most amount of weight as possible.

02:29:22.980 | So that I can save the energy from here,

02:29:27.740 | from lifting those up and the fatigue of my back

02:29:29.740 | being in a bad position so I can nearly kill myself

02:29:33.720 | over here, right?

02:29:36.440 | I, my wife, anybody will say, I'm a workaholic.

02:29:41.440 | And the first thing that I would do

02:29:43.840 | when it would be doing a company turnaround,

02:29:47.480 | they'd hire me, come in and I would be taking over

02:29:50.160 | for someone that wasn't successful.

02:29:52.200 | But it was usually hardly ever for lack of want or trying.

02:29:55.560 | So a lot of times they knew they were unsuccessful

02:29:57.600 | and they were running around working six, seven days a week,

02:30:00.920 | 12 hour days doing so much.

02:30:04.000 | And it'd be like, well, you need to do this

02:30:05.280 | and they'd train me on like all the reports and this

02:30:07.960 | and all the things and like, good luck.

02:30:10.160 | Good luck, I couldn't do it.

02:30:12.720 | And the first thing I would do is nothing.

02:30:15.300 | I would do nothing.

02:30:19.200 | Because then I would find what actually keeps coming back.

02:30:26.360 | The things that I need to do and how much of it

02:30:29.720 | was filling the space.

02:30:31.600 | Because so much of human nature when you're failing

02:30:35.880 | is to make yourself feel like you're accomplishing things.

02:30:38.880 | This is when things go on your list, on your checklist

02:30:42.320 | and you start like rolling up.

02:30:44.040 | So you're running around just getting shit done.

02:30:47.440 | - Yeah, yeah, being busy.

02:30:48.720 | - Right?

02:30:49.560 | And so, but at the same time, like find somewhere

02:30:54.560 | in my career, something I've done

02:30:57.240 | where I haven't outworked everybody.

02:30:59.160 | Just so much on distilling things down to what's important.

02:31:03.320 | - Yeah.

02:31:04.160 | - And you've got to make time to sit back and assess

02:31:09.160 | and think and be introspective.

02:31:14.320 | You have to make time for this.

02:31:16.960 | 'Cause if not, you're gonna waste so much time

02:31:20.160 | sitting there walking sideways when all you gotta do

02:31:25.160 | is move just one step in front of the other each day.

02:31:28.760 | Just one, that's all I say.

02:31:30.760 | Because it's gonna add up.

02:31:34.680 | But you could spend six months knocking shit out,

02:31:38.160 | doing your routine, busting your ass

02:31:40.360 | and not take that one step.

02:31:43.180 | So you've gotta distill stuff down.

02:31:46.920 | You've gotta really understand like what's important

02:31:49.800 | to you in life and where you're going.

02:31:51.080 | And when you're looking at anything in your life,

02:31:54.860 | the first thing that you need to do is figure out

02:31:58.600 | do I need to do it and just quit doing it.

02:32:01.280 | Just quit doing things in your life.

02:32:03.500 | And you'll see that a lot of stuff

02:32:06.800 | that you think has to be done doesn't have to be done.

02:32:10.520 | You'd be surprised.

02:32:12.640 | And then from there, it's the tech, okay.

02:32:16.280 | And then of that, what can I automate?

02:32:19.480 | What can I not have to do in a repeated fashion?

02:32:23.200 | And then the last one, yeah, wherever possible.

02:32:26.020 | If it's not something that I'm adding tremendous value to,

02:32:29.640 | like my uniqueness, people are like,

02:32:31.320 | oh, you must do the auto work on your vehicles

02:32:33.440 | 'cause you love working.

02:32:34.260 | I'm like, fuck that, I don't.

02:32:36.160 | They're like, what, that doesn't make any sense.

02:32:37.800 | And I'm like, no, I love creating things.

02:32:40.280 | But I don't wanna do that stuff.

02:32:43.500 | So you could use delegating if you're a manager position,

02:32:47.000 | but it's outsourcing, whatever it is.

02:32:51.460 | But there are also so many things.

02:32:53.240 | And this ties back to your point around just doing it.

02:32:58.240 | There's a point to experiencing all levels

02:33:01.300 | to really understand things.

02:33:03.040 | You need to spend time at the same time

02:33:06.660 | doing all those things

02:33:07.580 | 'cause there could be good, huge, massive gaps in there

02:33:11.300 | that you're not aware of that are key for you

02:33:14.160 | or key to having done different or so on.

02:33:17.300 | So like in my company days,

02:33:20.700 | I was one of the few executives that came in

02:33:23.760 | that could do anything on the floor

02:33:25.860 | from code to machine, run a lathe, a mill, weld,

02:33:30.860 | step into engineering.

02:33:32.680 | And that added tremendous value to me

02:33:37.260 | to having had spent time being a doer

02:33:41.120 | and not enough people want to be,

02:33:43.400 | you've gotta just go do shit.

02:33:45.680 | You need to spend time in your life chopping wood.

02:33:47.880 | Yeah, get a lot of shit done, doesn't matter what the shit is.

02:33:49.840 | You gotta have experience trying and doing

02:33:53.180 | all these things that you would never,

02:33:55.900 | my skillset is massive because I want to know,

02:33:59.580 | you need to have those touch points.

02:34:01.840 | My job, my title is chief visionary.

02:34:05.420 | But I've spent time doing everything.

02:34:11.840 | It's not about just creating this amazing strategy

02:34:15.520 | or vision and I'm just gonna be there

02:34:17.120 | and this person that directs.

02:34:18.680 | Like you can't be effective, you cannot connect the dots

02:34:22.840 | unless you've been in the moment with everything.

02:34:27.360 | Yeah, low level stuff.

02:34:28.600 | Sometimes it's doing stupid shit

02:34:30.760 | that you're not uniquely qualified to do

02:34:34.040 | that anybody could do, but you did it anyway.

02:34:36.280 | Just the training environment.

02:34:38.120 | People hit me up at a school or wherever like,

02:34:41.320 | hey, how do I get into, I wanna grow my brand online.

02:34:45.240 | I wanna do this, like where do I start?

02:34:47.480 | I'm like, go get a job at Planet Fitness

02:34:51.400 | or 24 Hour Fitness.

02:34:52.520 | They're like, but I wanna, how do I get recognized

02:34:55.960 | and write articles and be an online coach?

02:34:57.800 | I'm like, you need to go spend a few years

02:35:02.400 | one-on-one training people to learn the interaction,

02:35:06.480 | how people, there's base levels you have to do.

02:35:09.620 | You've gotta go work your way up from the ground.

02:35:13.860 | I truly believe it.

02:35:15.400 | - Well, I think that's the hard work piece

02:35:17.080 | that I'm speaking to that I like it

02:35:20.480 | when people have been humbled by the hardness of life.

02:35:23.720 | Like how difficult it is to do stuff.

02:35:27.000 | And to be honest--

02:35:27.840 | - Like, oh, I went and got my MBA.

02:35:29.160 | I went to MIT.

02:35:30.040 | I don't need to do that stuff.

02:35:31.480 | I'm above that.

02:35:32.560 | - Yeah, yeah.

02:35:33.960 | That's, once you've been humbled by doing those things,

02:35:36.560 | I feel like you can truly explore the optimization

02:35:41.560 | that you're talking to,

02:35:43.020 | finding the ways where you're uniquely capable

02:35:46.160 | to add value to the world.

02:35:48.480 | And then again, work your ass off

02:35:51.720 | to be the best in the world at that thing.

02:35:53.600 | - Yes.

02:35:54.440 | - So it's always--

02:35:55.280 | - But then don't waste your time on shit that's not a line.

02:35:57.880 | - Yeah, a lot of money.

02:35:58.720 | - That's the only, so that's,

02:35:59.760 | I guess there's a lot of context I put around that.

02:36:02.400 | But yeah, that was like a long answer to,

02:36:06.120 | a long, beautiful answer to an unanswerable question.

02:36:10.960 | Do you have advice outside of all this discussion

02:36:13.160 | to young people today about career, about life?

02:36:16.000 | Since you've done so many things,

02:36:17.440 | you've overcome a lot of things.

02:36:19.820 | Think high school, college student,

02:36:22.760 | thinking about what to do in their life.

02:36:24.960 | Do you have advice for those guys and girls?

02:36:27.160 | - Yeah, yeah.

02:36:29.320 | (laughing)

02:36:30.320 | First is, you don't have it figured out.

02:36:33.440 | So don't worry, just jump in.

02:36:34.960 | - Yeah, yeah.

02:36:36.560 | - We talked a lot about understanding your values

02:36:40.000 | and aligning all that stuff,

02:36:41.460 | but you gotta have a base level

02:36:44.680 | of start exploring and learning

02:36:46.520 | and just spending the time doing like, pick something.

02:36:51.520 | Let me elaborate a little bit.

02:36:54.680 | - No, you know what?

02:36:55.520 | A lot of people struggle with that aspect now

02:36:57.120 | because the choice, there's so much choice,

02:36:59.040 | it's difficult to pick something,

02:37:00.200 | but I think it does boil down to,

02:37:01.880 | you should pick something and don't worry about it.

02:37:04.040 | - And then, but within that,

02:37:05.840 | you can start discovering the things

02:37:08.640 | that are there for you.

02:37:10.200 | Like I talked about, I made this huge shift.

02:37:13.120 | I threw away my whole life,

02:37:14.660 | but I don't regret anything about that.

02:37:19.520 | I wouldn't be where I was if I didn't walk through

02:37:22.040 | and learn those things.

02:37:23.080 | And in fact, in the course of that,

02:37:24.960 | I learned just how much that inspiring people

02:37:29.960 | and helping them realize the potential

02:37:33.480 | far beyond what they thought was capable.

02:37:35.400 | And guess what?

02:37:36.240 | That was leadership 101

02:37:38.400 | and managing people base level, floor level, right?

02:37:42.240 | And I got a lot out that was perfectly aligned with,

02:37:45.480 | and that's what I realized.

02:37:46.360 | It didn't matter what industry I was in

02:37:50.560 | or any of those other things,

02:37:53.000 | but I was able, you can see so many things.

02:37:55.920 | There's so many paths that you can go down

02:37:57.800 | to help you realize what those things are.

02:38:01.120 | And you're gonna be able to find a lot of those nuggets

02:38:04.200 | and develop those.

02:38:06.280 | Do you think that I could have just gone to school

02:38:11.440 | and got out and started a globally recognized brand

02:38:15.640 | within a few years without having been schooled in business

02:38:20.640 | while getting paid for it by others for years?

02:38:24.800 | And in fact, that entire time,

02:38:26.840 | I knew that that's what I wanted to do,

02:38:28.320 | but I didn't go out on it.

02:38:30.280 | I mentored some of my friends along the same path to go.

02:38:34.360 | No, they're like, "I'm ready.

02:38:35.280 | I'm ready to go do this."

02:38:36.480 | And I'm like, "No, now you need to go get a job.

02:38:39.400 | Yeah, you know engineering, management, design,

02:38:41.420 | all that stuff, go get a job as a manager now."

02:38:43.960 | Like, "Oh, that's a step down.

02:38:45.080 | I can't do that."

02:38:45.920 | I'm like, "Go try it."

02:38:46.760 | A couple of years later, "Oh my God,

02:38:47.880 | that was such a good move.

02:38:49.080 | I didn't know what I didn't know."

02:38:50.440 | And now they're an executive

02:38:52.120 | for freaking a Fortune 500 company.

02:38:54.520 | And the same thing, like I sat there knowing

02:38:57.280 | that I was getting a free education.

02:39:00.040 | Don't stress yourself out, that's my advice.

02:39:03.520 | Don't stress yourself out that you've got to have

02:39:05.600 | this perfect thing because this process

02:39:08.720 | of understanding your values and the introspect,

02:39:10.440 | that takes time.

02:39:11.400 | - You can get a job where you're getting paid to learn.

02:39:15.740 | - Exactly.

02:39:17.320 | - That's a good deal before you launch on your own.

02:39:19.880 | You mentioned going back to darkness.

02:39:24.060 | I'm Russian, so I like going back to darkness.

02:39:26.420 | You suffered from depression, you considered suicide.

02:39:31.180 | Do you ponder your own death these days?

02:39:33.740 | Do you think about your mortality?

02:39:35.220 | Are you afraid of death?

02:39:37.600 | - I definitely think about mortality.

02:39:40.840 | And am I afraid of my own death?

02:39:43.940 | It depends on the moment.

02:39:46.180 | If I'm in the middle of a project,

02:39:48.880 | I definitely want to finish that project, man.

02:39:51.180 | But I don't fear it so much.

02:39:57.200 | I fear leaving my kids or my wife

02:40:06.160 | and not being able to be there for them.

02:40:09.180 | That bothers me.

02:40:10.520 | Outside of that, I know that I put everything

02:40:15.400 | into the life that I've lived.

02:40:18.820 | Like you said, there's always more,

02:40:21.360 | but I've lived hard, I've loved hard.

02:40:25.540 | Every moment in my life, I've made connections

02:40:32.140 | and impacted people around me for the better.

02:40:36.300 | And this tracks back, which is crazy

02:40:37.940 | when we were doing the documentary

02:40:39.660 | and they're interviewing people through my whole life

02:40:41.500 | and the consistency of the themes of anyone,

02:40:43.700 | like anything for Duffin, like just,

02:40:47.060 | sure, I'll fly in from Boston, all of them,

02:40:49.340 | like these people, like all of, like, it was crazy.

02:40:52.580 | Like everybody had a story about me giving,

02:40:56.280 | like just over and over.

02:40:57.660 | And I didn't even really--

02:40:58.660 | - It's just the way you were.

02:41:00.340 | - But I've been all in.

02:41:01.900 | I don't have, like, I have a lot more I want to do,

02:41:06.060 | but I don't have things that regret have not done in,

02:41:12.460 | like, I don't fear it.

02:41:15.260 | I don't fear it.

02:41:16.420 | - Yeah, it's like the, I don't know if you know

02:41:18.020 | the Bukowski poem, "Go All the Way,

02:41:20.420 | "Otherwise Don't Even Try."

02:41:22.120 | It seems like you embody that poem

02:41:25.220 | and you've accomplished some incredible things

02:41:28.300 | and serve as an inspiration to a huge number of people.

02:41:30.860 | Chris, you're an amazing human being.

02:41:33.100 | I'm really honored that you would spend

02:41:35.460 | your valuable time with me.

02:41:37.300 | Thank you so much for talking with me today.

02:41:39.460 | It was incredible.

02:41:40.300 | I can't wait to check out all the cool stuff

02:41:41.980 | you've engineered with Kabuki Strength.

02:41:44.060 | So I'm, obviously I love the, I love strength.

02:41:47.860 | I love strength training.

02:41:49.060 | I love the idea of strength.

02:41:50.220 | I love the equipment and the engineering approach

02:41:54.940 | that you take to strength.

02:41:56.380 | You're an incredible human,

02:41:58.080 | both on the things you've accomplished

02:42:00.380 | in terms of your own strength feats

02:42:03.180 | and the kind of science and engineering

02:42:06.340 | you bring to the field that many others could use.

02:42:10.380 | So thank you so much for talking today.

02:42:12.580 | - Thanks for having me on.

02:42:13.420 | That was, that was quite the final.

02:42:16.940 | Thank you.

02:42:17.780 | - Thanks for listening to this conversation

02:42:20.220 | with Chris Duffin, and thank you to Headspace,

02:42:23.460 | Magic Spoon, Sun Basket, and Ladder.

02:42:26.760 | Check them out in the description to support this podcast.

02:42:30.300 | And now let me leave you with some words

02:42:31.980 | from Arnold Schwarzenegger.

02:42:34.260 | "Strength does not come from winning.

02:42:36.620 | "Your struggles develop your strengths.

02:42:39.360 | "When you go through hardship and decide not to surrender,

02:42:42.720 | "that is strength."

02:42:44.980 | Thank you for listening, and hope to see you next time.

02:42:47.780 | (upbeat music)

02:42:50.360 | (upbeat music)

02:42:52.940 | [BLANK_AUDIO]

Chris Duffin: The Mad Scientist of Strength | Lex Fridman Podcast #207

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