Does John 15 Defy Calvinism?
00:00:00.000 | A frequent listener of the podcast emails in this question, "Pastor John, my name is
00:00:09.280 | Soren.
00:00:10.280 | I am from Romania, but living right now in Germany.
00:00:12.980 | My question is this.
00:00:14.520 | How do you understand John 15, 1 through 10 in a Calvinistic way?
00:00:18.120 | Because the text tells us things like this, 'He cuts off every branch that bears no fruit.'
00:00:22.920 | Or, 'If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers.
00:00:27.060 | Such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire, and burned.'
00:00:29.880 | What do you say, Pastor John?"
00:00:32.520 | That's a really crucial question because the biblical, Reformed, Calvinistic view of union
00:00:38.100 | with Christ, of "I am in a branch," is that if we have been united to Christ in a new
00:00:44.640 | birth and in an effectual calling, we will never be cut off from Christ.
00:00:50.900 | We will be eternally secure.
00:00:53.400 | And we base that on lots of texts.
00:00:56.080 | For example, John 10, 27, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
00:01:01.800 | I give them eternal life.
00:01:03.080 | They will never perish.
00:01:05.200 | No one will snatch them out of my hand.
00:01:07.640 | My Father who has given them to me is greater than all.
00:01:10.800 | No one will be able to snatch them out of my Father's hand."
00:01:14.160 | The point there is, if you're my sheep, you're secure.
00:01:16.520 | Or Romans 8, 30, this is, for me, the most compelling.
00:01:19.680 | "Those whom he pardestined, he called; and those whom he called, he justified; and those
00:01:24.480 | whom he justified, he glorified."
00:01:27.000 | Nobody falls out of that chain.
00:01:29.920 | If you're justified, he says, you will be glorified.
00:01:34.120 | There are no justified people who get lost between justification and glorification.
00:01:41.280 | Or Philippians 1, 6, "I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to
00:01:45.680 | completion in the last day."
00:01:47.680 | Or 1 Corinthians 1, 8, "He will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of Christ.
00:01:54.000 | God is faithful by whom you were called."
00:01:56.040 | Into the fellowship of his Son.
00:01:58.360 | Or 1 John 2, 19, "They went out from us because they were not of us.
00:02:02.480 | For if they had been of us, they would not have gone out.
00:02:05.080 | But they went out that it might be plain that they were not of us."
00:02:07.800 | So John is explaining being cut off there, being thrown out, as not being a part of us
00:02:14.440 | in the first place.
00:02:15.440 | So lots of texts show that those who are truly born of God and truly called are secure forever.
00:02:23.600 | So then we come to John 15 and we read verse 2.
00:02:27.880 | "Every branch in me that does not bear fruit, he takes away.
00:02:35.720 | And every branch that does bear fruit, he prunes that it may bear more fruit."
00:02:39.800 | Now, what does "take away" mean?
00:02:41.800 | I've heard people try to solve this problem by saying, "Well, it doesn't mean take away.
00:02:46.640 | It means lift up.
00:02:48.220 | So you prop up the branch so it can bear more fruit."
00:02:50.760 | That won't work.
00:02:52.040 | It won't work because of verse 6.
00:02:53.840 | "If anyone does not abide in me, he's thrown away like a branch and withers.
00:02:59.560 | And the branches are gathered and thrown into the fire and burned."
00:03:03.000 | So there are people who are attached to Jesus who go to hell.
00:03:08.840 | So what do we make of this?
00:03:11.300 | We could say, if you were minded to, that John is contradicting himself, because in
00:03:15.480 | chapter 10 it just says the opposite.
00:03:18.400 | Or you could give John, who's very worthy of our trust, the benefit of the doubt and
00:03:24.560 | say, "Okay, you don't mean for us to press this image that far.
00:03:30.240 | What are you saying?"
00:03:32.120 | And I think what John is saying is that there is a kind of attachment to Jesus that is not
00:03:39.720 | a saving attachment.
00:03:41.880 | There's a kind of union with the vine that is not a saving union.
00:03:52.040 | And therefore, if those get cut off, they are not compromising the doctrine of eternal
00:03:58.640 | security because they were never saved in the first place.
00:04:02.040 | Now, the reason I think that's not special pleading is because of the numerous examples
00:04:09.200 | in the New Testament of that sort of thing.
00:04:12.600 | Here's one of the clearest.
00:04:14.600 | Judas.
00:04:15.600 | Judas was chosen by Jesus.
00:04:18.920 | He was one of the twelve apostles.
00:04:21.120 | He had a relationship with Jesus.
00:04:24.040 | When they went out to heal and to cast out demons, there's no evidence that they all
00:04:28.000 | said, "How come Judas can't do this?"
00:04:30.440 | Judas did it.
00:04:31.840 | He cast out demons.
00:04:33.080 | He healed the sick.
00:04:34.640 | And nobody wondered why he couldn't.
00:04:36.700 | And he did it in the name of Jesus.
00:04:40.260 | And he was not saved.
00:04:43.060 | He was not born again.
00:04:44.340 | He was not elect.
00:04:46.040 | He was, Jesus said, a son of perdition.
00:04:50.360 | And it was written in the Old Testament that he was going to betray Jesus.
00:04:54.320 | John 17, 12.
00:04:55.320 | Jesus says, "I have guarded them."
00:04:57.600 | This is like, "I have kept all my branches."
00:04:59.320 | "I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost, except the son of destruction
00:05:06.780 | that the Scriptures might be fulfilled."
00:05:08.620 | So, there was nothing surprising here to Jesus.
00:05:11.660 | He chose to have in his band and to give unusual power to Judas.
00:05:16.800 | And so if anybody looked at this, they'd say, "Whoa, that branch is in the vine."
00:05:20.560 | And it was, in that sense.
00:05:22.960 | But it wasn't in the "born again," effectually called sense.
00:05:28.160 | Here's another illustration.
00:05:29.440 | Matthew 7, 22.
00:05:30.960 | Jesus says this, "On that day, many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in
00:05:36.480 | your name and cast out demons in your name and do many works in your name?'
00:05:40.360 | And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you.
00:05:42.880 | Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'"
00:05:44.960 | Those are Judas-type people.
00:05:46.980 | They really have been in the church a long time.
00:05:50.560 | They've benefited in all kinds of ways from their walk with Christian people and their
00:05:55.560 | external connection with Jesus Christ.
00:05:58.240 | And they're performing certain kinds of wondrous works, and they're not saved.
00:06:03.240 | And here's the last one.
00:06:05.680 | 1 Corinthians 13, 2.
00:06:08.840 | Paul said the same thing.
00:06:10.480 | "If I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I
00:06:17.080 | have all faith so as to remove mountains but have not love, I am nothing."
00:06:25.320 | The mark of the truly born-again person is not an attachment to Jesus that can do miracles,
00:06:33.440 | but rather an attachment to Jesus that loves.
00:06:37.560 | The fruit of the Spirit is the mark of the true branch.
00:06:43.040 | And I think that's the point.
00:06:44.480 | If you read on down further in John 15, "I am the vine, you are the branches.
00:06:49.360 | Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit."
00:06:55.840 | There's an abiding, there's an abiding that's real.
00:07:00.320 | And there's an artificial grafting that's not real.
00:07:03.680 | "Apart from me, you can do nothing."
00:07:06.220 | So I think John 15 does not contradict eternal security, does not contradict the Reformed
00:07:12.360 | Calvinistic understanding of perseverance of the saints, but it does warn that true
00:07:19.760 | saving union with the vine is more than church membership, it's more than ministry, it's
00:07:26.800 | more than miracles.
00:07:29.040 | It's bearing the fruit of love.
00:07:31.200 | Thank you, Pastor John.
00:07:33.240 | And speaking of union with Christ, our 2014 Conference for Pastors is dedicated to this
00:07:37.380 | very theme.
00:07:38.380 | St. Clair Ferguson and Michael Horton will join you, Pastor John, to speak on this remarkable
00:07:42.340 | reality of union with Christ.
00:07:44.940 | Paul Tripp and Jared Wilson will also be in town speaking among others, and this all happens
00:07:49.440 | in Minneapolis in about two months.
00:07:51.520 | And you can find more details on our website at DesiringGod.org, then click on the events
00:07:57.080 | tab.
00:07:58.080 | We hope to see you there.
00:07:59.080 | Until then, I am your host, Tony Reinke.
00:08:01.280 | Thanks for listening.
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