composer-a6ekd650l_editor-clip_clip_sam-dogen-financial-samurai-anahad_2023-jun-12-0504pm_financial_samurai_p
00:00:00.000 | Hello, everybody.
00:00:01.880 | It's Sam from the Financial Samurai podcast.
00:00:04.440 | And in this episode, I have a special guest with me, Anahad O'Connor.
00:00:09.140 | And I didn't realize, Anahad, you have a Wikipedia page.
00:00:12.920 | So I'm going to read it to you really quickly.
00:00:15.360 | Born May 23, 1981, is an American journalist and staff reporter for the New York Times.
00:00:19.760 | Well, he was for 20 years.
00:00:21.940 | He joined the Times in 2003 and writes about consumer health, science, and national issues.
00:00:26.840 | He's also a bestselling author.
00:00:29.280 | He went to Yale.
00:00:30.920 | His book, The 10 Things You Need to Eat, made the New York Times bestseller list.
00:00:35.040 | And now he is a part of the Washington Post.
00:00:38.260 | So welcome to the Financial Samurai podcast.
00:00:40.940 | Thanks for having me.
00:00:41.940 | I appreciate it.
00:00:42.940 | Thanks for that nice introduction, although I think that Wikipedia page needs updating.
00:00:47.240 | Yeah, that's pretty cool.
00:00:49.280 | You got one on.
00:00:50.280 | I don't think I have one.
00:00:51.280 | Maybe I can try to create one on my own.
00:00:52.280 | I don't know how that works.
00:00:53.280 | Yeah, I'm not even sure who created that.
00:00:56.280 | So.
00:00:57.280 | OK.
00:00:58.280 | So for 20 years, you've been writing about health.
00:01:00.280 | Yes?
00:01:01.280 | Health and fitness?
00:01:02.280 | Yes.
00:01:03.280 | So I started at the New York Times actually right out of college.
00:01:07.280 | I graduated in 1999, joined the New York Times in the science section, did several years
00:01:13.680 | there.
00:01:15.280 | And then I moved around to some other desks, the Metro desk.
00:01:20.560 | I covered national news, breaking news.
00:01:23.400 | But health has always been my passion.
00:01:24.760 | And so I made my way back to covering health after a brief detour.
00:01:30.280 | Got it.
00:01:31.280 | And also on the Wikipedia page, it says he was part of the first class of the New York
00:01:35.040 | Times College Scholarship Program in 1999.
00:01:38.960 | What is that or what was that?
00:01:40.640 | Yes.
00:01:41.640 | So the New York Times College Scholarship was started in 1999.
00:01:47.180 | It was basically started by the publisher and some top editors at the Times as a way
00:01:53.380 | to provide college scholarships to promising young New York high school students.
00:02:01.940 | And I was in the first class.
00:02:03.820 | There were six of us.
00:02:07.060 | And they actually wrote an article about us in the New York Times.
00:02:10.780 | So that was the first time my name appeared in the New York Times, is when I won this
00:02:14.740 | inaugural college scholarship.
00:02:16.940 | And it became it got such great positive feedback.
00:02:20.580 | It became so popular that people wanted to support it.
00:02:23.980 | And all this money and donations poured in and they were able to award 15 other scholarships
00:02:30.380 | that year.
00:02:31.380 | So it grew from a class of six high school students to 21.
00:02:35.900 | And basically high school students born and raised in New York, high school students from
00:02:41.100 | New York City who overcame challenges and showed promise.
00:02:47.260 | That is actually how I ended up working for the New York Times because I got an internship
00:02:51.700 | as part of the college scholarship program.
00:02:54.380 | And I wanted to go to college and become a doctor.
00:02:57.060 | And so I asked to become to be an intern in the science department because I grew up reading
00:03:01.940 | Science Times.
00:03:03.540 | And so I started as an intern in the science department.
00:03:06.780 | And then I kept coming back year after year.
00:03:09.700 | And then I eventually joined the New York Times as a cub reporter and then became a
00:03:15.500 | staff reporter.
00:03:16.500 | And so as you can see, I gave up my dreams of becoming a doctor and became a health journalist
00:03:24.340 | because I felt that I could have a much bigger impact in the world of health by doing this
00:03:30.700 | journalism.
00:03:31.700 | Mad Fientist Well, it must not have been easy getting that
00:03:33.620 | scholarship.
00:03:34.940 | Do you mind sharing, is it possible, what kind of financial aid that was?
00:03:40.860 | And was it implicit that if you did well in college, you would be able to get a job at
00:03:44.540 | the New York Times afterwards?
00:03:45.540 | Dr. Justin Marchegiani It wasn't implicit.
00:03:47.460 | So the scholarship was $48,000 at the time.
00:03:52.460 | Mad Fientist Wow, that's great.
00:03:53.460 | Dr. Justin Marchegiani Yeah, over the course of four years.
00:03:55.700 | So it was $12,000 a year.
00:03:58.020 | And back then, college was very expensive but not as expensive as it is now.
00:04:02.460 | I think tuition was maybe like $230,000 and $3,500 a year and I got accepted to Yale.
00:04:08.380 | And so I applied that to Yale.
00:04:10.060 | I think for the purposes of your podcast, I can say that it was one of several scholarships
00:04:15.620 | that I got for private scholarships because I grew up in a very poor neighborhood in New
00:04:21.980 | York City.
00:04:22.980 | I was one of seven children raised in a single parent household.
00:04:27.060 | And you know, I remember reading when I was young that college was very expensive and
00:04:31.420 | I knew I wanted to go to college and I had dreams of becoming a scientist.
00:04:36.380 | First I wanted to become a nuclear chemist, a physicist.
00:04:39.860 | And then when I got to college, it was my dream was to become a doctor.
00:04:43.060 | So I kind of changed along the way.
00:04:44.140 | But I knew that, you know, you know, my mom told me from a young age that we couldn't
00:04:48.140 | really afford college.
00:04:49.140 | So when I was in high school, I decided I got to figure out a way to pay for college.
00:04:54.860 | You know, and I just saw the price tag and thought this is, you know, a year of college
00:04:59.540 | is more than my mother makes in a year.
00:05:02.940 | So how am I going to pay for this?
00:05:03.940 | And so I made it my job at that time to find private scholarships.
00:05:08.020 | And so I got the New York Times scholarship, which was $48,000.
00:05:12.500 | And then I also got another scholarship called the Ron Brown Scholarship Program, which was
00:05:17.380 | $40,000.
00:05:18.380 | Wow.
00:05:19.380 | Yeah.
00:05:20.380 | Oh my gosh, that's a lot.
00:05:22.100 | So I ended up racking up over $100,000 in private scholarships.
00:05:26.180 | And so college was all paid for.
00:05:28.500 | Wow.
00:05:29.500 | Congratulations.
00:05:30.500 | Did you get the scholarships before or after you got accepted to Yale and other colleges?
00:05:35.260 | I got it before.
00:05:36.260 | Before.
00:05:37.260 | I see.
00:05:38.260 | So they say, if you get into college, we will help pay this amount.
00:05:42.460 | And then during your application to college, do you say, I got this scholarship?
00:05:46.500 | Because I would think that that would look pretty good too.
00:05:50.420 | That was part of the, I think it was all happening at the same time.
00:05:54.420 | It was all in senior year.
00:05:57.900 | And so I remember when I was doing the final interview, I had to do several interviews
00:06:03.780 | for the New York Times scholarship program.
00:06:07.380 | And when I got it, I had not yet been accepted to college.
00:06:14.220 | I think the acceptance was starting to roll in a little bit later.
00:06:19.420 | But I'm a big believer in, I remember, I went out and got a book from my school library
00:06:27.380 | that was all about private scholarships, academic scholarships.
00:06:32.820 | And I just went and was doing research during all the free time that I had.
00:06:38.380 | So during my lunch period, after school, I was just in the library researching scholarships
00:06:42.620 | and applying for everything.
00:06:43.620 | And I ended up getting six or seven of these private scholarships, but I must have applied
00:06:48.260 | for like 100.
00:06:49.260 | Oh, wow.
00:06:50.400 | So you were very intentional.
00:06:51.940 | So this is really important for listeners and parents is that you have to be intentional
00:06:56.980 | if you want to get the scholarship.
00:06:57.980 | It's not just going to fall in your lap most of the time.
00:07:00.860 | You've got to apply, you've got to research, see what's most relevant.
00:07:04.020 | It's kind of like applying to college, but for scholarships, it is kind of like a full-time
00:07:07.940 | job.
00:07:08.940 | Absolutely.
00:07:09.940 | And the great thing is that a lot of my, I had sort of like a bunch of essays that I
00:07:16.060 | used to apply to different colleges.
00:07:17.060 | And I could also take them and then make tweaks to them to apply for these scholarship programs
00:07:22.260 | because they were personal essays.
00:07:24.580 | So you apply to college and when you apply to a lot of scholarship programs, they want
00:07:28.580 | a personal essay.
00:07:29.580 | So you just can take it and tweak it for a college or for a scholarship.
00:07:34.380 | But you have to be very dedicated and definitely putting your research.
00:07:38.380 | But the good thing is that there are just many, many scholarships out there.
00:07:41.060 | And so many of them that a lot of people don't know they're out there and you might apply.
00:07:44.660 | A lot of people apply for the big ones, but then they overlook the ones that are like
00:07:48.860 | $5,000, $10,000, $7,000, $2,500 that are only getting a few applicants.
00:07:55.220 | Right.
00:07:56.220 | So 20 years at the New York Times, I'd love to ask you about that experience and what
00:08:03.380 | listeners and readers get wrong about the media.
00:08:09.740 | Because since 2016, I remember Trump was talking about fake news and all that.
00:08:15.660 | And I feel like there was like a big rift in society once he became president.
00:08:19.820 | There was a lot of talk about the media and whether we should believe them or not.
00:08:24.540 | What are some misconceptions readers and listeners have about the media that you can kind of
00:08:29.780 | break down and clarify?
00:08:31.700 | Yeah.
00:08:32.700 | So I think that the media has been under attack, obviously, in recent years.
00:08:37.020 | And I think some of that is due to demagoguery.
00:08:39.620 | I mean, I think that there are a lot of politicians who don't want to be held to account.
00:08:45.820 | And so, you know, rather, you know, when the media is reporting on politicians and on institutions
00:08:54.620 | that may be involved in corruption or potentially, you know, telling lies, one way to, you know,
00:09:06.220 | to sort of counter that is to undermine, you know, the media that is trying to expose corruption
00:09:14.540 | among institutions, for example.
00:09:17.260 | And you know, that's not to say that the media is perfect.
00:09:20.900 | You know, obviously, as reporters and as journalists, you know, we make mistakes, but your obligation
00:09:27.780 | as a reporter is if you make a mistake, if you report something that's inaccurate, then
00:09:31.980 | you run a correction, you know, correct the record.
00:09:35.220 | So the media is not obviously perfect.
00:09:39.580 | You know, we do make mistakes.
00:09:40.580 | I occasionally, you know, publish things that I get wrong, and then we have to run a correction,
00:09:45.180 | you know, the next day we have to.
00:09:47.120 | That's our obligation to our readers and to the public.
00:09:49.820 | I think another misapprehension is, you know, people have a very conspiratorial perspective
00:09:55.740 | of media.
00:09:56.740 | They think that, you know, a lot of journalists, that all journalists have an agenda or that
00:10:03.500 | are, you know, that if you work for The Washington Post, you work for The New York Times, then
00:10:07.060 | your editor tells you what to do, tells you what to write, and you're just a sort of puppet.
00:10:11.940 | And that's not the case.
00:10:12.940 | A lot of reporters, you know, we are just people doing a job like anyone else, you know,
00:10:18.380 | and our goal by and large is to just seek out the truth and report on the truth.
00:10:25.780 | You know, and we are people who, you know, most of us have a lot of integrity and just
00:10:32.700 | want to inform the public and hold, you know, speak truth to power.
00:10:37.740 | Right.
00:10:38.740 | No, I hear you.
00:10:40.700 | It's a good point on if you're going, if you're trying to uncover the truth about someone
00:10:44.700 | who might have done something wrong, it seems logical to try to attack the institution that's
00:10:52.060 | trying to go after you.
00:10:53.060 | I mean, that makes perfect sense.
00:10:55.180 | In terms of the editor and journalist relationship, who decides the title of the article?
00:11:03.140 | And does the journalist, the writer, actually have a say in what that title will be?
00:11:07.940 | Because there sometimes is a mismatch.
00:11:10.540 | Absolutely.
00:11:11.660 | And that is something that is, I would say, a lot of journalists, something we have to
00:11:18.780 | deal with that can be a bit of a nuisance at times is that if you work for a big news
00:11:24.180 | organization, especially a print organization or a large digital news operation or TV operation,
00:11:32.820 | you typically do not write the headlines on your story.
00:11:35.860 | So what you do is you, you know, I have an assignment editor who I talk to pretty regularly
00:11:42.520 | and I tell her, you know, what I think is going to be a story.
00:11:46.500 | I tell her what news I'm pursuing, what stories I'm working on.
00:11:50.900 | You know, she gives me feedback.
00:11:52.140 | We talk about what the story is going to be, what I'm finding or what I'm going to go out
00:11:55.060 | and report on.
00:11:56.060 | Then I write the story and then I file it to her.
00:11:59.580 | She edits it, asks me questions, you know, tries to see if there's any inaccuracies or
00:12:03.860 | anything like that or make sure everything is clear, does her editing, and then she writes
00:12:08.480 | the headline.
00:12:09.820 | Or a copy editor, who is a second editor, will write the headline.
00:12:14.380 | And back in the day when I first started, a lot of times I wouldn't even see the headline
00:12:17.180 | before I went into print.
00:12:18.500 | So sometimes, occasionally, I would see a story in print and I would see the headline
00:12:24.300 | and think, "Yeah, I don't really agree with that headline.
00:12:26.940 | I don't think it really sums it up."
00:12:29.500 | Maybe it's too suggestive.
00:12:31.460 | And a lot of times I would get emails from people who just read the headline and didn't
00:12:38.580 | read the actual story.
00:12:40.060 | Right.
00:12:41.060 | I mean, that's very common.
00:12:42.060 | And then wrote to me complaining that, you know, that my story was all wrong or that
00:12:44.980 | I don't know what I was talking about.
00:12:45.980 | Or I was like, "I didn't write the headline."
00:12:49.900 | And if you read the story, like that's, you know, the headline is five words and the story
00:12:54.140 | is like, you know, a thousand words.
00:12:55.940 | Right.
00:12:56.940 | Where I go into the nuances and the details and give, you know, it's very balanced and
00:13:01.980 | I'm interviewing one side, then the other side, or describing a study and it's, I discuss
00:13:07.540 | all the details and nuances.
00:13:09.660 | And it's very difficult.
00:13:10.660 | You know, I don't blame the editors who occasionally misinterpret a story and maybe don't put the
00:13:15.700 | best headline on it because you're trying to sum up a, you know, a thousand word story
00:13:19.340 | or 2000 word story in five words.
00:13:22.100 | And it's extremely difficult to be that concise.
00:13:25.280 | And also you want it to be compelling so that people see it all and think, "Oh, this is
00:13:28.380 | an interesting story.
00:13:29.380 | Let me read through the rest."
00:13:30.380 | But we live in this, you know, this environment nowadays or this media culture where, you
00:13:35.180 | know, we're just deluged with headlines and we have our iPhones and you're constantly
00:13:41.100 | getting news updates and news alerts.
00:13:43.460 | And I, you know, I listen to lots of podcasts, yours included and many others.
00:13:47.100 | And there's just so much media to consume that a lot of times it's hard to sit there
00:13:51.860 | and read a full article because we have short attention spans.
00:13:55.580 | So oftentimes the reporters don't usually write the headlines, unless it's a blog that's
00:13:59.680 | run by like, you know, one or two people.
00:14:02.660 | But most large news organizations, you have editors who write the headlines.
00:14:06.420 | Got it.
00:14:07.420 | So a lesson learned, folks, is to look at the headline.
00:14:11.780 | Maybe it'll catch your attention.
00:14:12.780 | I think that's part of the big reason why there are catchy headlines.
00:14:16.260 | But to spend time reading and delving into the content of the articles, I have the same
00:14:21.700 | problem with Financial Samurai as well.
00:14:23.660 | I write probably too long articles, like 2,500-word articles and it loses people.
00:14:29.760 | But it's just me trying to be balanced and, you know, I got to be more concise.
00:14:33.820 | I don't have the luxury of having a nice editor.
00:14:37.020 | But I also have to figure out what is a proper headline as well.
00:14:40.000 | So just spend some time digging deep because chances are if you read one more paragraph,
00:14:45.060 | you might find a more balanced perspective and the answers to your questions.
00:14:50.980 | And I will also say that, you know, journalists, we're just people.
00:14:54.060 | You know, we write stories we want people to read and we want to engage with the public.
00:14:57.660 | And so occasionally I'll get an email from someone who maybe just read the headline,
00:15:02.180 | you know, and got really upset and sent me an email calling me an idiot or something
00:15:05.700 | and just sent me a nasty email.
00:15:07.700 | And I'm like, "Okay, well, I'm not going to respond to that person."
00:15:09.860 | But then there are people who write to me, who send messages that are like, "Oh, great
00:15:14.300 | story," or, you know, "Hey, you know, I read your story.
00:15:17.420 | I thought the headline didn't quite get it right, blah, blah, blah," and they're civil.
00:15:21.660 | And then I respond.
00:15:22.660 | You know, if someone sends a civil message to me, even if they disagree with something
00:15:25.860 | I wrote, if they're civil, then you'll get a response.
00:15:28.780 | And, you know, I've often – I've had long correspondences with people, with readers
00:15:34.180 | who maybe didn't agree with everything, but they sent me a civil message and we ended
00:15:37.900 | up having a great dialogue.
00:15:40.300 | You know, and we have a discussion and it's great.
00:15:42.620 | And I do the same.
00:15:44.820 | You know, occasionally I read something in other news outlets that I disagree with and
00:15:48.220 | maybe I'll write to that person and just be civil and you will get, you know, a response
00:15:52.700 | and feedback and perhaps start a dialogue that way.
00:15:56.700 | Mad Fientist So given you're a health reporter, things
00:16:01.300 | must have been crazy wild for you once the pandemic began.
00:16:06.500 | Because I remember in 2020, I would see a lot of stories, unfortunately negative stories,
00:16:10.900 | about people who died from COVID complications.
00:16:14.100 | And one of the most consistent variables that I noticed were that these folks had comorbidities
00:16:20.180 | or were overweight.
00:16:22.100 | And so that kind of scared me into trying to – thinking about my fitness more, about
00:16:26.620 | trying to eat better and protect my mental health and all that.
00:16:31.140 | How was COVID like for you as a health reporter?
00:16:33.620 | And why – do you feel the nation got healthier during this time as a silver lining because
00:16:39.660 | we were so scared of this potential virus that could have negatively affected our health?
00:16:45.060 | Dr. Justin Marchegiani Yes.
00:16:46.500 | So I think that that's a – you raise a great point.
00:16:50.040 | We did see, if you look at the data, that there were a lot of people who got healthier
00:16:54.100 | who decided, you know, I want to – I'm seeing all these people die and they have
00:16:59.140 | these comorbidities, you know, the leading comorbidities for, you know, risk of death
00:17:03.940 | from COVID or hypertension, diabetes, obesity, you know, heart disease.
00:17:09.520 | So a lot of people saw that and thought, you know, I want to get healthier.
00:17:13.740 | And a lot of us started working from home and so you had the ability to cook your own
00:17:18.100 | food.
00:17:19.100 | You had the ability to maybe go out, spend a little more time exercising because you
00:17:22.340 | weren't commuting in the morning and afternoon.
00:17:24.880 | But I will say importantly, and I'm still trying to track down all the data on this,
00:17:29.600 | but I think there's a class divide when it comes to that.
00:17:32.560 | I think that the people of higher socioeconomic status could, you know, work from home during
00:17:37.640 | lockdown and who, you know, could afford to go on Amazon and buy, you know, workout equipment
00:17:45.000 | and set up a gym in your garage or in your backyard.
00:17:47.720 | Dr. Abdul Latifov: Yeah, those $3,000 Peloton bikes.
00:17:50.240 | That was crazy.
00:17:51.240 | Like, are you kidding me?
00:17:52.240 | I can't afford that.
00:17:53.240 | Dr. Justin Marchegiani Yeah, exactly.
00:17:54.240 | So expensive.
00:17:55.240 | Now you can get them for like $500, I think.
00:17:56.240 | Yeah, that's another story.
00:17:57.240 | You know, I went online and I bought, you know, gym equipment from my garage during
00:18:04.160 | COVID because I couldn't go to the gym and, you know, I started cooking more from home.
00:18:08.640 | But I think the people who have higher socioeconomic status were the ones who maybe were more likely
00:18:15.640 | to get healthier during the pandemic.
00:18:17.920 | And then people who, you know, are more working class, it was harder for them.
00:18:23.440 | You know, you maybe maybe you lost your job, maybe you had to get two jobs.
00:18:27.560 | I mean, I think those are the people where it was more of a struggle.
00:18:31.200 | I think COVID might have exacerbated the class division.
00:18:37.160 | But that's just my sort of my educated guess, I would say.
00:18:42.240 | Dr. Abdul Latifov I see.
00:18:43.520 | Yeah, one of the blind spots that I had before having children was being a little bit judgmental
00:18:49.800 | to the families that brought their kids to McDonald's to eat all the hamburgers and Big
00:18:54.400 | Macs and I was like, that's not good for you.
00:18:56.920 | But now that I have children, three and a half and six, I understand why not only from
00:19:01.960 | a cost perspective, but from a let's load up our children with some calories so they
00:19:07.640 | don't starve because they're such picky eaters.
00:19:10.680 | You know, you have to have a balance between are you going to eat this?
00:19:13.360 | Are you going to starve?
00:19:14.360 | It's kind of like a dichotomy that and I'm like, okay, well, the cheeseburger you want
00:19:17.640 | cheeseburger, okay, just not too much.
00:19:20.200 | But here's the cheeseburger.
00:19:21.200 | Dr. Justin Marchegiani Yeah, 100%.
00:19:23.320 | I have two children and my son Parker was four and then my daughter Isabella who is
00:19:27.440 | one and a half.
00:19:28.440 | And yeah, there are all these there are all these funny memes that I see online occasionally
00:19:33.360 | that I agree with where it's like, you know, someone before, you know, they have kids,
00:19:37.720 | they're organic, you know, cage free, no sugar till they're five, blah, blah, blah.
00:19:43.440 | And then, you know, after you have kids, the parents is like, okay, if they can just take
00:19:46.840 | one bite of this cheeseburger, then we'll be okay because it's not only like getting,
00:19:51.560 | you know, the calories into a kid who's a picky eater, but I don't know if you have
00:19:55.280 | this issue.
00:19:56.280 | But you know, my son, if he skips his lunch and he does, he hasn't eaten, you know, he
00:19:59.720 | gets hangover.
00:20:00.720 | Dave Asprey Yeah, hangover, grouchy.
00:20:01.720 | Dr. Justin Marchegiani It ruins his whole afternoon if he hasn't had food and then you
00:20:05.320 | get, you know, some chicken nuggets or something in him and he's like, totally, you know, different
00:20:12.160 | kid.
00:20:13.160 | So yeah, you know, you're like, oh, you know, if we can just get get him to eat this slice
00:20:16.720 | of pizza, hey, you know, it's got tomatoes, that's a vegetable.
00:20:19.320 | You know, we try very hard to give him nutritious food.
00:20:23.920 | But it's difficult when you have kids, you know, sometimes you just have to let go and
00:20:27.360 | be like, okay, you know, they want to have pizza for dinner.
00:20:31.040 | That's fine.
00:20:32.040 | You know, or, you know, he wants to have a cookie, like, okay, you got to pick your battles,
00:20:36.400 | right?
00:20:37.400 | Dave Asprey Right.
00:20:38.400 | So over the coming 12 months or 24 months, in terms of health, is there is there some
00:20:44.680 | specific issue of health that you're trying to pursue and elucidate to the readership
00:20:49.800 | at the Washington Post?
00:20:51.360 | What is something that's driving you the most?
00:20:53.240 | Dr. Justin Marchegiani Yes.
00:20:54.600 | So I will say that during the pandemic, you know, I was working for the New York Times
00:20:59.980 | and then the Washington Post decided to launch what's called the Wellbeing Desk because it
00:21:04.920 | saw a lot of people were interested in wellness.
00:21:08.240 | And that wellness was, you know, obviously playing such a big role in the pandemic.
00:21:11.280 | Because as you said, people with comorbidities were at a higher risk of having severe or
00:21:15.400 | fatal COVID.
00:21:16.400 | So the Washington Post launched this new Wellbeing Desk and brought me on as a columnist to write
00:21:21.960 | about nutrition.
00:21:23.600 | And I've been very focused, you know, I joined last year, and I've been very focused on writing
00:21:27.960 | about the quality of our food and the role it plays in health outcomes.
00:21:32.680 | And one thing I'm one thing I've focused on a lot is ultra processed foods, which are,
00:21:37.880 | you know, these foods that are, you know, highly processed, they're typically very low
00:21:42.240 | in fiber, they have a lot of additives, things like sugar, salt, artificial colors, flavorings,
00:21:51.240 | preservatives.
00:21:52.880 | There's been a lot of research lately around the world, showing that the more ultra processed
00:21:57.480 | foods you consume on a daily basis, the higher your risk of these comorbidities we talked
00:22:02.160 | about from heart disease, diabetes, hypertension, to, you know, cancer, and even cognitive decline
00:22:07.760 | and dementia.
00:22:08.960 | So I've been writing about ultra processed foods, and I'm doing a project now, sort of
00:22:13.760 | digging into what it is about these foods that seem to cause do a lot of damage to our
00:22:19.440 | to our health.
00:22:21.240 | And I will say that, you know, this is another issue where there's a class divide, because
00:22:25.560 | people of lower socioeconomic status tend to eat higher amounts of these foods.
00:22:31.280 | Because for a lot of reasons, they tend to be very cheap.
00:22:36.760 | So they're very, you know, economical.
00:22:40.560 | They're long lasting, because they're highly processed, the fiber is removed, you know,
00:22:44.800 | they're shelf stable things like breakfast cereals that have a lot of sugar added to
00:22:48.600 | them.
00:22:49.600 | You know, things like frozen pizzas, frozen entrees, you know, chicken nuggets.
00:22:54.760 | You know, these are things, you know, canned foods that have a lot of salt and preservatives
00:23:00.600 | added to them.
00:23:01.600 | These are things that won't go off in a couple days.
00:23:04.720 | Things like fresh fruits and vegetables are very good for your health, but they go off
00:23:07.640 | or fresh meat, fresh seafood, you know, these things tend to go off pretty quickly.
00:23:12.640 | So people who are, you know, maybe lower income working class, they need foods that are going
00:23:17.800 | to be shelf stable, that are inexpensive, that are easy, that are tasty, that their
00:23:23.400 | kids will eat.
00:23:24.680 | And so they tend to eat, you know, the highest levels of these foods, but also have the worst
00:23:28.760 | health outcomes.
00:23:30.440 | So that's something I'm reporting on now.
00:23:32.160 | Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, that'd be great if you can help report on that and also find
00:23:35.960 | some solutions because in my mind, it's very simple.
00:23:39.640 | And it's probably not easy is to cut out the refined sugars and processed foods.
00:23:45.360 | But then like you say, the shelf life, the expense of that, and I just think about it
00:23:49.600 | for my kids now, like, how much is too much.
00:23:52.000 | So this is definitely an issue that I hope we can be more aware of because there's this
00:23:57.120 | whole school of thought about, well, healthcare costs are so expensive per capita.
00:24:01.800 | Why don't we focus more on preventative healthcare because we all want to live healthier and
00:24:07.640 | longer.
00:24:08.640 | So I think you reporting on that is gonna be great, because hopefully, it'll make people
00:24:13.560 | more aware about the food that they consume.
00:24:16.040 | Dr. Scott Zuckerman Yeah, you're absolutely right.
00:24:18.360 | There's so many issues tied up in it.
00:24:19.920 | It's you know, how it's impacting our health, but then you know, that is very costly to
00:24:23.840 | the economy because it costs the federal government and insurance companies billions and billions
00:24:28.380 | of dollars a year to you know, pay for these medical conditions that are also the leading
00:24:34.260 | killers of Americans, you know, the leading causes of death are preventable diseases that
00:24:40.200 | are in many cases, diet related diseases, heart disease, cancer, diabetes, obesity,
00:24:46.920 | hypertension.
00:24:47.920 | So it's what it's shortening our lifespans, and also increasing the costs to the government
00:24:55.080 | and the health insurance system hurting our pockets.
00:24:57.400 | Yeah, it's right, really wide ranging effects.
00:24:59.720 | Dr. Justin Marchegiani Right.
00:25:00.720 | I know you've got to go soon.
00:25:02.360 | So I just have a last question.
00:25:04.480 | And I'm just curious to know about your views on the relationship between journalists and
00:25:10.120 | bloggers.
00:25:11.120 | Because for me as a blogger, I can write about whatever I want, there's kind of no real consequences.
00:25:15.680 | I got to I can come up the wackiest title and say the most inane things.
00:25:20.000 | And if it's to try to get clicks, well, I guess I can do that.
00:25:22.640 | But I'm just trying to be thoughtful about stuff I write.
00:25:25.120 | And then for you as a journalist, you know, you have strict rules of engagement, you've
00:25:29.480 | got an editor, how do you see that relationship?
00:25:33.440 | And do you ever say, Oh, I would like to actually just do my own thing on my site.
00:25:37.720 | I'm just curious to know your thoughts and perspectives.
00:25:40.160 | Dr. Justin Marchegiani Yeah, I think it's, it's tricky for journalists
00:25:43.640 | because for someone who works for a large news organization like the Washington Post,
00:25:49.040 | because as you said, you know, we have, I have freedom to pursue, generally speaking,
00:25:53.680 | the stories I want to do.
00:25:54.920 | But you know, I have an editor who I go to and I say, Hey, this is what I'm thinking
00:25:58.160 | of doing.
00:25:59.160 | And we kind of work together on that.
00:26:01.520 | And you know, so there's some limitations, you know, I have someone who, you know, can
00:26:05.840 | push back against me, whereas you have complete autonomy.
00:26:09.000 | I love the autonomy.
00:26:13.760 | It's much more difficult.
00:26:14.760 | But then, you know, you know, so I love financial samurai.
00:26:18.680 | It's a thankful blog.
00:26:19.680 | I've been reading it for many years.
00:26:21.480 | You do great work.
00:26:24.160 | You know, and I think there are so many blogs out there that do such a great job, especially
00:26:28.520 | covering like really niche areas.
00:26:32.160 | But you know, it's it's I think it's harder as as a blogger, because you don't necessarily
00:26:36.640 | have not you specifically, but you know, some bloggers, you don't necessarily have that
00:26:41.160 | security, right?
00:26:42.160 | Like, no, there's no security.
00:26:43.160 | Yeah, there's a nine to five I have insurance, you know, I have, you went straight to the
00:26:48.280 | top.
00:26:49.280 | Yeah.
00:26:50.280 | So I mean, yeah, you have the you work that the most one of the most prestigious platforms
00:26:54.560 | and a huge platform.
00:26:56.120 | Whereas for bloggers, we got to like, scrape and crawl and go through the mud to try to
00:26:59.960 | build something of our own.
00:27:01.360 | And it takes can take years.
00:27:03.080 | I mean, it's been over 14 years now with financial samurai.
00:27:06.440 | Yeah.
00:27:07.440 | And then you have to go out and find, you know, advertisers.
00:27:10.440 | And you know, if you take a day off, like, you know, you it's it's your operation, you're
00:27:15.320 | essentially self employed business owner.
00:27:17.680 | Whereas for me, if I take a week off, you know, there's 500 other reporters who are
00:27:22.600 | going to be stories in the Washington Post, right?
00:27:26.520 | There's trade offs.
00:27:28.360 | Sure.
00:27:29.360 | Say, yeah.
00:27:30.360 | I mean, I'm not a blogger, but but yeah, there are, I guess, you know, there's pluses and
00:27:34.840 | minuses.
00:27:35.840 | Yeah.
00:27:36.840 | Well, here's an interesting perspective.
00:27:38.000 | So I don't think I'd ever be able to get a job at the New York Times or the Washington
00:27:41.480 | Post.
00:27:42.480 | I'm just not qualified, even though I've written 2500 articles, and I've built my own brand.
00:27:46.720 | But you have the ability to start your own blog or website and talk about whatever you
00:27:52.080 | want.
00:27:53.080 | So it's something for listeners to think about, as you go on your path and do something, you
00:27:58.040 | know, there's there's the route.
00:27:59.360 | I joined Goldman Sachs out of college.
00:28:01.080 | So that helped boom, in inject me into this institution that had some good prestige and
00:28:09.160 | reputation at the time, at least.
00:28:11.280 | And then I could do something else.
00:28:12.280 | So there's two ways to go about things, folks, you can build it on your own the hard way.
00:28:15.720 | But I think I think it's strategically better to join an organization, learn as much as
00:28:20.120 | possible build those skills.
00:28:21.680 | And once you have that financial buffer and confidence to go out on your own if you want
00:28:26.560 | to.
00:28:27.560 | Yeah.
00:28:28.560 | I would say, though, that I wouldn't rule it out completely for you, because you have
00:28:32.480 | such an extensive background in writing about personal finance.
00:28:37.400 | I could see a news organization hiring you as a personal finance columnist, you know,
00:28:43.000 | someone who's giving his own opinions on personal finance.
00:28:46.840 | It would be more it'd be more difficult to, you know, to write to be a straight news reporter
00:28:54.440 | writing about the economy or finance or covering Goldman Sachs.
00:28:58.200 | But there are a lot of personal finance columnists.
00:29:00.080 | I guess I guess you're right.
00:29:02.480 | And I can think of one person when I was at the Times, Brian Stelter, who was at he actually
00:29:09.280 | started out as a blogger covering the TV news industry.
00:29:12.000 | I think his blog was called TV Newser, I want to say, breaking so many stories on his blog.
00:29:17.880 | He was eventually hired by the New York Times.
00:29:19.800 | Oh, he went on to CNN.
00:29:22.480 | Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:29:24.600 | And the show Reliable Sources.
00:29:28.360 | He eventually left CNN last year.
00:29:31.200 | But now he's back out there.
00:29:32.960 | I see writing articles for different news organizations, but he started as a as a blogger.
00:29:38.400 | Interesting.
00:29:39.400 | Well, I like to count myself out.
00:29:41.480 | And part of the reason I like to count myself out is so that I don't have these options
00:29:44.540 | to go do something else because I want to stay independent and just do my own thing.
00:29:48.720 | It'd be harder for you to go from having all that autonomy and freedom.
00:29:52.880 | It's being inside a news organization where you have an editor saying, "No, I don't like
00:29:56.680 | that idea."
00:29:57.680 | Yeah, that would piss me off.
00:29:58.680 | I would really push back.
00:30:00.240 | I'm like, "No, no, no, I'm the boss.
00:30:02.560 | I'm the captain now."
00:30:03.560 | Yeah, and you turn in a blog that's 25 or a piece that's 2,500, 3,000 words and your
00:30:08.960 | editor is like, "Okay, we got to cut this down to 800 words."
00:30:11.600 | Yeah, you're like, "What?
00:30:12.600 | No, no, I totally hear you."
00:30:15.040 | Yeah, yeah.
00:30:16.040 | All right.
00:30:17.040 | Well, it's been great talking to you.
00:30:18.040 | Anahad, if listeners want to read more about your work and also your guest hosting the
00:30:22.880 | podcast, please share where they can find you.
00:30:26.200 | Yeah, so you can go to WashingtonPost.com/WellBeing, which is the homepage for the WellBeing Desk
00:30:34.960 | at the Washington Post where you can find my columns on nutrition and news articles
00:30:41.040 | and columns by my other great colleagues on the Washington Post WellBeing Desk.
00:30:45.440 | You can find me on Twitter @AnahadO'Connor.
00:30:48.640 | That's A-N-A-H-A-D-O-C-O-N-N-O-R.
00:30:52.200 | Yeah, those are usually the two best places to find me.
00:30:56.000 | Awesome, and I'll put it in the show notes so it's easy for people to find.
00:30:59.680 | All right.
00:31:00.680 | Well, thanks for connecting.
00:31:01.960 | Maybe we'll connect again when you get some more time.
00:31:04.120 | Let's do it.
00:31:05.120 | I would love to.
00:31:06.120 | Thanks for having me on.
00:31:07.120 | Great to talk to you.
00:31:08.120 | You too.
00:31:08.320 | (gulps)