The Single Aim of All Ministry
00:00:00.000 | (upbeat music)
00:00:02.580 | - Welcome to the Ask Pastor John podcast.
00:00:06.960 | We're back with guest Paul David Tripp,
00:00:09.840 | the author of the book, "Awe, Why It Matters
00:00:12.320 | "for Everything We Think, Say, and Do."
00:00:15.720 | So this week we're talking about awe
00:00:17.400 | and how it really does relate to everything in life,
00:00:20.700 | specifically to our spiritual growth and our Bible intake,
00:00:23.800 | our ministry aims, and even to our news consumption,
00:00:27.480 | our weight loss attempts, our anxieties,
00:00:29.880 | our parenting methods, and our expectations
00:00:33.080 | for marriage and romantic love.
00:00:35.920 | We must be seduced by God, as you said on Monday.
00:00:40.160 | He must capture our hearts.
00:00:41.720 | This has ramifications for finding purpose
00:00:43.720 | and meaning in our lives, as we saw earlier.
00:00:46.320 | This is essential for getting honest about weight loss
00:00:49.040 | and the care of our bodies, as we saw yesterday.
00:00:52.800 | Today we turn now to talk about how to engender awe in God,
00:00:57.880 | in others, as a leading aim of our ministry labors.
00:01:02.280 | Paul, how has your own ministry been shaped
00:01:05.880 | by this reality and this calling?
00:01:08.480 | - I love Psalm 145.
00:01:12.960 | I say in the book that Psalm 145 changed my life
00:01:17.960 | and changed my ministry, because one day reading
00:01:23.160 | through Psalm 145, I all of a sudden got my calling.
00:01:28.160 | I think for the first time,
00:01:31.160 | I understood what I had been called to do.
00:01:33.800 | And it's just a phrase that says,
00:01:35.440 | "One generation shall commend your works to another."
00:01:40.440 | And I thought, there it is.
00:01:42.520 | My job is to be used of God through the vehicle
00:01:47.920 | of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ
00:01:51.160 | and the content of scripture,
00:01:53.800 | to give people back their awe of God again,
00:01:57.400 | so that their hearts are now ruled by the awe of God.
00:02:02.400 | So that claim on their hearts then begins
00:02:09.000 | to redirect everything in their lives.
00:02:12.720 | Materialism isn't first a money problem.
00:02:14.840 | Materialism is an awe problem.
00:02:16.720 | If I'm not in awe of God, it's very, very possible
00:02:19.580 | for me to be in awe of physical things
00:02:22.080 | and spin myself into debt as a result.
00:02:25.480 | Disobedience is not first a law problem.
00:02:28.860 | It's an awe problem that leads to a law problem.
00:02:31.800 | I mean, look at the 10 commandments.
00:02:33.520 | The first commands are about worship,
00:02:35.440 | because if you don't keep those commands,
00:02:36.760 | you won't be keeping the ones that follow.
00:02:39.700 | And so in giving people their awe back again
00:02:44.700 | through the preaching of God's word,
00:02:47.440 | I give them the gift of a satisfied heart,
00:02:52.440 | which then gives them strength against the temptation
00:02:57.600 | that would say, "Here's where satisfaction could be found."
00:03:01.760 | - So good, yeah.
00:03:03.080 | This single ministry aim of helping give people
00:03:07.360 | their awe in God again,
00:03:09.480 | it really simplifies a lot of our discipleship
00:03:11.480 | and parenting, our preaching, our musical worship,
00:03:14.360 | our counseling, all of it.
00:03:17.160 | But this really must begin first in our own hearts, though.
00:03:20.960 | - Sure, and even your motivation as a minister.
00:03:23.760 | I mean, look, if you're not in ministry
00:03:28.660 | with a heart that's satisfied in God's glory,
00:03:31.360 | then you'll probably ask your ministry
00:03:34.720 | to give you identity, meaning, and purpose,
00:03:37.320 | and inner sense of well-being.
00:03:38.720 | I have to say this, 'cause I've been in pastoral ministry
00:03:41.600 | for many, many years.
00:03:43.600 | A ministry is a miserable place to find your identity.
00:03:47.280 | It just is.
00:03:48.240 | And so I need to be freed from the bondage
00:03:53.240 | for looking to have this all capacity satisfied
00:03:58.920 | by creation just as much as anybody else
00:04:01.800 | in my ministry does.
00:04:03.280 | - Yes.
00:04:04.400 | So when Paul Tripp wants to recapture his own awe of God,
00:04:08.600 | or when you want God to once again capture your heart,
00:04:13.000 | how do you do it?
00:04:14.000 | Where do you go?
00:04:16.240 | - Let the Bible do it for you.
00:04:17.840 | I think it's important to take people
00:04:21.100 | to those mind-numbing, heart-engaging,
00:04:25.040 | knee-weakening passages like Isaiah 40,
00:04:28.160 | where the language, human language,
00:04:30.680 | is stretched to its furthest elasticity
00:04:34.840 | to try to capture the glory of God.
00:04:36.520 | I mean, think of the physical picture
00:04:38.080 | of God holding the waters of the universe
00:04:40.440 | in the hollow of his hand.
00:04:41.680 | Think of the majesty of that.
00:04:43.580 | I mean, how much liquid could you hold in your hand,
00:04:47.480 | the palm of your hand, without it spilling?
00:04:50.680 | That's just one illustration of the stunning glory of God.
00:04:54.680 | Or the end of Job, where God has that,
00:04:58.160 | "Where were you when the foundations of creation
00:05:00.120 | "were laid," conversation with Job,
00:05:01.640 | and displays his splendor.
00:05:02.920 | Or Ephesians 1, where the redeeming plan of God
00:05:06.800 | throughout the ages is laid bare for us.
00:05:11.180 | We need those passages.
00:05:13.120 | We need to meditate in those passages.
00:05:14.760 | We need to go back to those passages again and again.
00:05:16.720 | And they do a much better job of capturing God's splendor
00:05:21.680 | than I would ever do.
00:05:23.080 | - Amen, yes.
00:05:24.160 | So speak to ministers now.
00:05:25.760 | This is simplifying.
00:05:28.720 | It is also incredibly daunting.
00:05:31.160 | They labor to inspire awe in others.
00:05:35.160 | This is what you call in the book
00:05:36.480 | the grand agenda of all ministry.
00:05:38.960 | I love that.
00:05:40.200 | Speak to ministers who are lost in the details,
00:05:43.560 | or they're buried in criticism,
00:05:46.240 | or they simply feel burned out
00:05:47.800 | from years of pouring their lives out.
00:05:49.840 | How would you counsel ministers here?
00:05:52.680 | - I think in the press of the struggles,
00:05:57.680 | trials, pressures, and discourages of ministry,
00:06:03.200 | there is counsel to be found for us in Psalm 27.
00:06:08.400 | Psalm 27 is written in one of two
00:06:12.640 | of the most tragic experiences.
00:06:14.480 | Either David was fleeing from Saul and gross injustice,
00:06:18.600 | or fleeing from his son Absalom,
00:06:20.520 | who wanted his throne, a terrible family betrayal.
00:06:24.980 | And in the midst of that, he says,
00:06:26.920 | "One thing I desire, that I could dwell
00:06:29.920 | "in the house of the Lord
00:06:30.760 | "and gaze upon the beauty of the Lord."
00:06:32.600 | Now, why does he say that?
00:06:33.640 | Because he understands there's something
00:06:36.960 | that exists in the universe,
00:06:38.200 | someone that exists in the universe,
00:06:40.280 | who's way more glorious and way more beautiful
00:06:45.080 | than any ugly thing you will face in your ministry.
00:06:47.760 | And you will only understand
00:06:50.120 | the struggles of ministry properly
00:06:52.880 | when you look at them through the stunning beauty,
00:06:56.320 | awesome glory of the Lord.
00:06:58.280 | Now, here's what that means.
00:07:00.040 | It means you need to have a habit
00:07:02.920 | of getting up every morning as a pastor
00:07:05.240 | and gazing upon the beauty of the Lord.
00:07:08.160 | Go to one of those passages, let your heart take that in.
00:07:13.160 | Rest in that.
00:07:15.680 | And why can you rest in that?
00:07:16.880 | Because what the Bible teaches us
00:07:19.320 | is all that God is in his glory,
00:07:22.240 | he is for us by grace.
00:07:24.400 | He has unleashed his glory on us by grace.
00:07:28.320 | So that beauty not only tells me who God is,
00:07:30.400 | it redefines me as one of God's children.
00:07:33.040 | And then, now you're ready to go out
00:07:37.180 | and do your ministry,
00:07:39.040 | but now not doing it hoping for greater acceptance
00:07:43.480 | and greater success.
00:07:45.420 | Now you go out with your heart satisfied
00:07:48.680 | and you're free to give
00:07:51.200 | what has filled your heart to others.
00:07:53.760 | - Finally, what would you say to a pastor
00:07:57.200 | who knows that they should preach awe in God,
00:08:00.040 | but they don't feel it privately?
00:08:01.720 | Is the public preaching of God's awesomeness
00:08:06.320 | disingenuous when a minister
00:08:08.540 | doesn't experience that awe privately?
00:08:11.900 | - I don't think there's ever a moment in preaching
00:08:15.680 | where you do not preach truth as a poor example of truth.
00:08:19.940 | I mean, what pastor has ever preached a passage
00:08:25.120 | saying to himself, "I perfectly example this"?
00:08:29.200 | No one.
00:08:30.040 | And so, I'm always a broken tool
00:08:36.180 | I love what it says in 2 Corinthians 4
00:08:40.000 | that we are cracked vessels
00:08:45.000 | so that the light of God's glory shows through.
00:08:49.920 | I mean, that's all of us.
00:08:52.320 | And so I get up, I confess my inadequacy,
00:08:56.480 | I confess my inconsistency,
00:08:59.880 | and I luxuriate in God's forgiveness
00:09:04.000 | and in the gospel irrationality
00:09:08.020 | that he can actually use someone like me
00:09:11.500 | to declare his glory.
00:09:13.260 | - Yeah, very good.
00:09:14.180 | Thank you, Paul.
00:09:15.220 | We're gonna return tomorrow
00:09:16.360 | and transition to talk about awe and parenting.
00:09:19.980 | I'm your host, Tony Reinke.
00:09:21.020 | Thanks for listening to the Ask Pastor John podcast
00:09:23.180 | with guest Paul Tripp.
00:09:24.520 | We'll see you tomorrow.
00:09:25.620 | (upbeat music)
00:09:28.200 | (upbeat music)
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