E132: SEC goes after crypto giants, Sequoia splits, LIV/PGA, Messi's deal + LIVE Q&A!

00:00:00.000 | Hey, everybody, welcome to the all in podcast. I'm your moderator for the week Dave Friedberg

00:00:05.400 | Not the world's greatest moderator. This show is gonna be a bit of a shortened version at the back end of the pod today

00:00:12.960 | We actually are gonna show some Q&A from Jason's launch summit, which he held in Napa Valley this week great event

00:00:19.600 | Thanks for having us up there

00:00:21.400 | Jkal, thanks for coming great speakers great content and we did a live Q&A

00:00:27.440 | For the all-in pod with the audience there which will transition to about halfway through through the show today

00:00:34.500 | Jkal, thanks for your hospitality. Oh, yeah. Thanks for having me the fun birthday party the poker night

00:00:41.080 | We had a great time. I still don't know what I was doing there. You were meeting some of your LPs

00:00:45.120 | It was like a dog and pony show Jkal was using us as some sort of dog and pony show to raise money

00:00:51.240 | Zach did you really have LPs there that you would never met? No. Yes

00:00:56.360 | Hold on a second. I had one LP there who I have definitely met many times before

00:01:00.080 | Okay, she told us she'd never met you she wanted an introduction

00:01:02.800 | So maybe she's getting into the spirit of all-in and joking with you

00:01:05.920 | But you had a three-hour meeting with one of your LPs as I heard she talked about

00:01:08.880 | Yeah, she said she had like two or three hours with you mother you with us today. What's going on?

00:01:12.740 | You there buddy? Chamath is very drunk. By the way, he brought up his own wine. He started margaritas at 2 o'clock

00:01:17.200 | He was drunk by the time we got there. What? He showed up

00:01:19.920 | He was day drinking margaritas in the Sun

00:01:23.180 | Oh, and then we showed up and he was like falling asleep by the time we were done with the stage

00:01:47.960 | You know, by the way politics is one of these incredible things where you see the meanest people

00:01:53.720 | come out of the woodwork when you

00:01:57.240 | Even feign support for somebody that they don't support now that it's out there that sax and I are doing this fundraiser for RFK

00:02:05.420 | Oh, yeah, if you look at Twitter

00:02:07.420 | some of like the

00:02:09.760 | the

00:02:10.840 | Democratic surrogates are out just

00:02:14.840 | Smacking me and sax around and it's incredible

00:02:18.240 | These people are like the biggest

00:02:21.080 | imposter loser clowns

00:02:23.600 | They've never literally done anything in their whole life and then they show up and then they just like how dare you work and help

00:02:31.360 | Build a company. How dare you help build another company?

00:02:34.020 | How dare you help now fund other companies?

00:02:37.160 | I am a talking mouthpiece who's never done anything except work in one administration as a speechwriter and now I think you guys suck balls

00:02:43.960 | It's like give me a break. Mm-hmm

00:02:46.280 | So you are you a little kind of emotional about that today?

00:02:50.120 | I love actually I love critiques actually because I think like you can learn a lot from critiques, but then when mids just

00:02:56.400 | spew I

00:02:58.960 | Just get annoyed. I think mids should not be allowed to talk. Yeah. Well, that's just my thought there goes half the internet sex

00:03:06.240 | Are your Republican?

00:03:08.640 | cohort friends

00:03:10.400 | Upset about you hosting a fundraiser for RFK. I've got none of that. None of that

00:03:14.600 | That's interesting. What's your take on that?

00:03:17.200 | Yeah, do Republicans generally think that it's a good thing if our a kid jr

00:03:21.360 | Gets the Democratic nomination because he will be easily beatable. I don't think they're thinking that way. I think that there's a

00:03:27.080 | respect

00:03:29.360 | For RFK jr. Among many Republicans because he's speaking out on issues that they care about like I've talked about he's denouncing censorship

00:03:37.280 | he's in favor of free speech is in favor of civil liberties and

00:03:40.280 | You know not the this massive surveillance state. He's speaking out in favor of peace instead of war. He's speaking out on the border

00:03:47.720 | He had this amazing video. That was great a couple of days ago where he went to the border in Yuma, Arizona

00:03:53.440 | At 2 a.m. In the morning

00:03:56.200 | And he shows he shows where the border wall ends and where the border wall ends the line

00:04:02.560 | Begins and people from all over the world are just entering

00:04:05.840 | Through this hole in the wall in a never-ending stream of people and then they get loaded onto buses

00:04:12.720 | Provided by the government and then they get handed it a ticket to supposedly appear in court to resolve their case in three or four years

00:04:20.320 | And they're never heard from again and they're dispersed all over the country

00:04:23.680 | What I don't understand is if the federal government can get its act together enough to provide buses

00:04:30.320 | Why can't they get their act together enough to plug the hole in the wall? It's absurd

00:04:35.200 | This is like an act of sabotage against the United States. And so he's there just pointing this out

00:04:40.480 | I've never seen anything like this before

00:04:42.160 | It was interesting as a as a Democrat to do this because that's typically kind of a Republican

00:04:47.520 | Point right and some of the commentary made about RFK jr

00:04:52.240 | I think it was in the New York Times this week or someone that covered his candidacy one of the big media

00:04:57.680 | companies

00:04:59.920 | Highlighted how much of his agenda seems to be a Republican talking point agenda. Does that sound accurate?

00:05:07.400 | Even most people in the country who identify as Democrats would be against having an open border

00:05:14.800 | That's what we're talking about when there's a hole in the wall and people can just start forming a line and then once they get through

00:05:20.080 | The line, right? They're literally just hold on. They're basically distributed throughout the country on buses

00:05:24.720 | I don't think most people in the country even Democrats would support that

00:05:28.320 | But what he's violating here is the press blackout on what's really going on at the border

00:05:34.440 | So you're right. Like the only you went there. Yeah, but other Republican talking points. So the

00:05:39.820 | points around the vaccine

00:05:42.520 | Republican well, he's expressed obviously concerns about vaccines preceding the kovat vaccine

00:05:49.140 | I don't know whether he's right about that or not

00:05:50.920 | I'm not willing to say whether he's right or wrong about that because I just don't know enough

00:05:54.240 | I think he's definitely right about the inefficacy of the kovat vaccine

00:05:58.560 | We've talked about this before even Bill Gates admits now that the vaccine doesn't work

00:06:02.480 | It's too short acting and it doesn't hold up against very it's not a vaccine. Let's just

00:06:07.560 | You from getting the illness. It's a death reduction shot. It was a revenue grab by big pharma

00:06:13.600 | plastered with

00:06:16.360 | Non-scientific thinking from a bunch of people who should have known better Wow

00:06:21.240 | I think you just got our so much

00:06:24.480 | Is just the truth hold on what you must have said is just like the factual reality and and

00:06:31.200 | You can't get that from the mainstream media. Like there's no

00:06:35.120 | Re-evaluation. There's no appraisal. They control what we see in here

00:06:39.560 | It's like prov to level in terms of the propaganda and that's why I think RFK jr. Is so interesting is because he is

00:06:46.360 | Blowing up what the mainstream media wants to control the really interesting thing about him going to the border

00:06:52.240 | I agree with sax is hey

00:06:53.840 | let's just have a discussion about this and look at the actual facts on the ground that we can agree on and

00:06:58.560 | What he actually did was he pierced the veil of like this is an issue about a certain group of people

00:07:03.840 | He was there and there are people from Afghanistan China all over the world coming in

00:07:08.200 | He made the point that this isn't just about one country and that these people are suffering and that I thought was like another really

00:07:13.800 | Important highlight these people are being trafficked

00:07:16.320 | They're you know being abused at the border and that it's gonna cost us 10 million a mile to secure the border

00:07:22.280 | It's a really great talking about it and he's done this with Ukraine as well where he emphasizes the humanitarian aspect of it

00:07:29.800 | Yes, and talking about it and I think Republicans should adopt some of that

00:07:34.520 | He rhetoric and to Chamath's point. I think it's it is. I think it's a money grab Chamath

00:07:40.000 | I do think it lowered death rates

00:07:41.680 | But you know, I do think piercing the veil on this and none of us are still getting boosted because we know they don't

00:07:46.920 | I'm not debating vaccines and politics. We're moving on. We're gonna talk about crypto. So this week the SEC. There we go. Serious action

00:07:55.540 | against Binance and coinbase

00:07:58.840 | You know pretty significant pretty loud SEC filed 13 charges against finance entities and the founders CC

00:08:05.740 | charges include operating unregistered

00:08:08.720 | securities exchanges broker dealers and clearing agencies

00:08:11.360 | misrepresenting their trading controls and their oversight on the Binance US platform and the unregistered offer and sale of

00:08:19.040 | Securities the next day. They sought a temporary restraining order to freeze finances US assets and

00:08:25.000 | Then on Tuesday the SEC sued coinbase

00:08:28.820 | over their exchange and their staking programs stock dropped 12% the SEC said that

00:08:37.240 | The company was operating an unregistered exchange and broker and that 13 of their assets listed on their platform were considered crypto asset

00:08:44.720 | securities

00:08:46.320 | Brian Armstrong

00:08:47.680 | Obviously has been on the pod several times

00:08:50.000 | Said he's not shutting down his staking service and said regarding the SEC complaint against us today

00:08:55.860 | We're proud to represent the industry in court to finally get some clarity around crypto rules

00:08:59.560 | He's generally made the statement that he has tried multiple times to register with the SEC

00:09:04.460 | They have not had a mechanism for him to register. They have tried to do everything by the book and that the SEC

00:09:10.800 | approved their IPO filing knowing full well the details of their business and their operating model and

00:09:16.680 | Still allowed them to go public on a US securities exchange

00:09:20.820 | Despite full knowledge about their business. Chamath does anything change this week based on the SEC's action or is this just a continuation of

00:09:27.840 | You know crypto has been

00:09:32.680 | Rolled back and will continue to roll back here in the US

00:09:36.000 | Or is this something new and a new action and opens up a new front on the the government versus crypto?

00:09:43.240 | It's a good question. I think there's two ways to look at this one is

00:09:46.520 | The conspiracy theorist way which you see a lot of on

00:09:50.600 | Twitter which is this idea that crypto is making all of these inroads as

00:10:00.320 | a replacement mechanism for

00:10:03.100 | Fiat currency and so governments are really now invested in trying to shut it down. I think that's

00:10:10.600 | Largely untrue and then there's the more simple basic reality

00:10:15.320 | Which is that there was one part of the SEC

00:10:18.460 | That frankly didn't do the job that they were supposed to by either allowing a few of these crypto companies or crypto businesses

00:10:26.800 | To go public either a standalone businesses or as part of other businesses. So Coinbase Robin Hood, etc

00:10:33.640 | And then there's this part of the enforcement action after this FTX fiasco, which is a lot of CYA

00:10:40.480 | Covering your ass by the SEC

00:10:43.960 | Especially because it looked like they had some cozy relationships with them

00:10:47.700 | And so they're coming down hard and they're going to go and systematically dismantle

00:10:52.840 | The largest actors and they're going to go through the value chain. So I think the obvious place that they're looking now or

00:10:59.880 | The exchanges they'll look at the custodial services

00:11:04.720 | they will not approve any ETFs and

00:11:07.760 | then eventually I do think it trickles into all of the staking services and

00:11:12.720 | Eventually, I think it'll touch the venture community and all of those firms and funds that had a huge robust business in

00:11:21.920 | staking

00:11:23.920 | These crypto projects in order to get coins like founding coins and then being able to sell them J. Kel

00:11:30.560 | I mean, I've been talking about this since the beginning because I

00:11:33.520 | bought

00:11:35.360 | Bitcoin and wrote about Bitcoin when it was maybe 25 cents and then again when it was a hundred

00:11:40.440 | So I've been following this for a long time. And I think

00:11:42.840 | Thinking from first principles to stepping back for a moment

00:11:46.140 | You know what we do in technology is fundamentally disruptive

00:11:49.240 | If it's at its best if it's truly gonna be important in the world

00:11:52.040 | and when you hear that word disruption, you kind of file it as a buzzword, but what it really means at its core is like

00:11:59.400 | Competition and it's not just competition disruption when you say disruption

00:12:03.720 | you're talking about existential competition two people go in the ring one person comes out like

00:12:07.800 | Somebody's gonna get really fucked up. And if you people keep bringing up, oh, you're an investor in uber. They broke the rules

00:12:14.520 | They bent the rules

00:12:16.080 | Uber was going against caps. Airbnb was going against like hotels. We work was going against like long-term real estate leases

00:12:23.120 | When you look at all those

00:12:25.360 | Disruptive technologies and what they did at their core. They disrupted on behalf of consumers and

00:12:31.880 | Lowered prices increased choice, etc. When you get crypto

00:12:35.400 | The crypto crowd literally said we are going to replace fiat currency fiat currency

00:12:41.880 | Is the government and so my thesis from the beginning was if the government has a way to stop this

00:12:46.720 | They do not want to be disrupted. What what is a government at its core? It's a military

00:12:52.280 | It's a bunch of rules laws and it's money

00:12:57.280 | that's the kind of pillars of any government's power we knew the government wasn't gonna give this up and

00:13:03.960 | You know, they they after round and found out but the truth is the and this is where I have some sympathy for the crypto

00:13:11.480 | People not the people who are just committing crime with the whole way and just dumping these bags on retail, etc

00:13:16.760 | But we do want to have this innovation here

00:13:18.840 | There are some innovative aspects to it, but Gary Gensler said listen, you already have electronic money. It's called money in the United States

00:13:25.120 | We already have these services. You don't need this consumers don't need it

00:13:27.920 | And you have to understand the SEC's function in the world to understand why they're taking this action

00:13:33.080 | Their function is to protect investors

00:13:35.200 | Investors lost a bunch of money. Therefore they are going to retroactively

00:13:39.680 | inflict pain and hold people accountable for

00:13:42.440 | Their mandate which is to protect investors. You could have easily resolved this the SEC and

00:13:48.960 | The companies could resolve this the companies could have followed these things as securities and only allowed accredited investors top 5% of the country

00:13:56.640 | People will make over 200k a year. They didn't do that. They said anybody can buy these

00:14:01.240 | Well, that's just not how it works in America and it should change

00:14:05.840 | I think everybody should be able to buy any security they want in America

00:14:09.600 | Just like anybody can go play blackjack and the easiest solution for this just passed in Congress this week

00:14:14.160 | And we'll go to the Senate and be a lawsuit

00:14:16.240 | I think allowing every American the other 94% to take a test and become accredited if that happens

00:14:21.360 | You take a test just like you take a driver's license test. I know what diversification is

00:14:25.120 | I know how risky these are once you take that 50

00:14:27.880 | Question test you become accredited and then you can buy these coins if you want to and that's really the easiest path to resolution here

00:14:34.680 | So we don't have Brian Armstrong move his company to the Middle East or you know an island in the Caribbean

00:14:40.120 | Which is what he's gonna do I predict so, okay. Well look we've seen

00:14:43.760 | This bill make its way I think through is it going to the Senate next or is it going to the Senate?

00:14:50.360 | Yeah, go to the Senate. So let's see if it gets done. I think it's a it's a good point one thing. I'll point out

00:14:55.960 | when

00:14:57.960 | Individual investors were making money

00:15:01.160 | Because all of these asset values were inflating all of the coins were growing and were climbing in value everyone felt good

00:15:07.760 | There was an emergent cry that we all want to have access to these new instruments

00:15:13.760 | we all have a right to make these investments and to own these assets and then as the asset values declined and

00:15:21.400 | Individual investors began losing money the emergent cry is where was the government to help save and protect us?

00:15:29.320 | And so the SEC I would argue was probably a little bit hindered

00:15:33.720 | when the market was inflating in being able to step in and take action because that would have been

00:15:38.160 | Counter to the cries of the retail market

00:15:41.940 | But as the retail market took their their hits

00:15:44.600 | The SEC has to step in and Congress steps in and everyone starts to say it's time to act

00:15:49.880 | We should have acted sooner and this was a you know, fairly predictable. I think what's happening is more nefarious than that

00:15:55.200 | so

00:15:57.240 | The SEC is doing two different things. They're alleging two different kinds of

00:16:01.880 | Crimes one set has to do with protecting

00:16:07.160 | investors from having their funds

00:16:10.680 | Stolen on these exchanges or at least commingled FTX did that right where they basically took customer deposits and stole them

00:16:17.480 | What finance is accused of is taking customer deposits?

00:16:21.080 | Maybe not stealing them but commingling them with company funds that should be looked at and I think

00:16:27.000 | Crypto customers should be protected against that. However the case against coinbase. They're alleging a completely different set of facts, which is

00:16:33.200 | Effectively what Gensler and the SEC are saying is that it is not legal to operate a crypto exchange in the United States

00:16:40.400 | That is what the SEC is saying

00:16:42.680 | Because coinbase has basically done everything right and I believe that Gensler is far exceeding his authority and stating something like that

00:16:49.560 | It is not up to the chairman of the SEC to say that Americans should not be holding crypto

00:16:55.800 | Why as a free people should we not be able to buy crypto if we want to?

00:17:00.920 | You know, why shouldn't we be able to buy Bitcoin now? Maybe you apply rules around

00:17:05.560 | Accredited investor status there should be protections against unsophisticated investors buying stuff or getting defrauded. That's fine

00:17:13.040 | that's the framework that Brian Armstrong is asking for but

00:17:16.920 | everyone should understand what the SEC is doing right now is

00:17:21.680 | Basically usurping congressional authority

00:17:23.760 | It should be Congress that makes the law if Congress wants to ban

00:17:27.600 | crypto exchanges in the United States and prevent the citizen the United States from owning crypto let Congress do it it should not be

00:17:33.960 | Up to Gensler to do that. And the question is why is Gensler going this far when previously he had relationships in the industry?

00:17:41.000 | apparently

00:17:42.560 | He was a consultant to finance and even worse

00:17:46.200 | he was talking to FTX about giving them some special status and I think the reason is the the scuttlebutt is that

00:17:52.480 | He has an alliance with Elizabeth Warren and the rumor is that you know

00:17:57.160 | She will make him Treasury Secretary if he basically destroys crypto in the US. Sorry, where's the evidence for that?

00:18:01.960 | That's just someone's rumor and speculation. This is the scuttlebutt in the industry

00:18:05.360 | Okay, so it's

00:18:08.000 | This is in fact the back channel just to be clear rumor and innuendo is what you're saying

00:18:13.160 | No, look what I would say is clear is that Gensler and Elizabeth Warren have an alliance it to destroy crypto in the US

00:18:19.040 | This was speculated about before with operation choke point, but now it's clear. They're trying to shut down

00:18:24.520 | We've talked about on the show before it was a series of actions. Take what you do when you're in a hotel at night

00:18:30.260 | Operation choke point was a series of actions by the US government to basically destroy all the on ramps to crypto

00:18:38.540 | So you couldn't get money into the system now

00:18:40.780 | They're going further and they're basically saying it is illegal to operate a crypto exchange in the United States. So

00:18:45.860 | Yes

00:18:50.280 | I can explain why you're wrong what they're saying is it's not just the exchange. It's that the exchange contains

00:18:55.780 | Unregistered security, so it's a more nuanced point. I think I agree security. Could you trade?

00:19:02.260 | Well, if it passes the Howey test or it is registered and there are people who have actually

00:19:09.240 | Crypto passes the Howey test. No, they're going back on that. You could pass it if you limited it to accredited investors and the fact is

00:19:16.460 | Brian Armstrong

00:19:19.020 | finance and a lot of crypto projects refused to exclude

00:19:23.660 | Non-accredited investors and I watch this happen up close and personal

00:19:27.800 | You're right about the unregistered securities thing. They're trying to say that all crypto is unregistered security

00:19:34.360 | No, they said

00:19:36.360 | They literally they named them sacks in the in the lawsuit. They named the 16 or 13. What was it Friedberg?

00:19:41.880 | So they they know how to it was dirty. They know how to craft this

00:19:45.200 | They're saying for these specific 13 now the industry does feel you're correct and the back channel is everybody's against us

00:19:51.600 | But if they had just registered these they would not a problem. I don't think they're gonna

00:19:55.440 | He doesn't have a way of registering

00:20:02.360 | They do they don't want to so they claim they don't have a way of registering

00:20:06.640 | They could register it just like we all

00:20:08.640 | Lot of people tweeting about this that the SEC has put out statements saying our door is open come talk to us

00:20:14.920 | There is no open door. There is no one to talk to they have no idea how to get registered

00:20:19.060 | How do you think this is gonna get resolved Armstrong's talk publicly about going to Congress?

00:20:24.040 | To try and get some clarifying law passed. Are you familiar with any of the

00:20:30.120 | Any of the drafting that might be going on to support his cause here or do you think it's gonna get settled in the courts?

00:20:35.920 | First of all, I think I think Brian Armstrong is is a really really really good entrepreneur

00:20:40.800 | And I'm a really big fan of his

00:20:44.240 | That said I just don't think that there's a lot of political support

00:20:50.840 | To visit this issue right now and so unfortunately, I'm pretty

00:20:58.880 | Skeptical that you're gonna see any form of legislation pass. I

00:21:03.400 | unfortunately think that

00:21:07.040 | The SEC has by and large put the entire sector into mate and so I think that what Jason said

00:21:16.880 | Is largely right

00:21:20.000 | which is that it's gonna force these companies to preserve enterprise value to leave the United States and

00:21:26.280 | to jurisdictionally operate from a different place and to

00:21:30.200 | Basically IP block and I PK us

00:21:33.400 | Residents from using their products and services. I

00:21:36.800 | Also think that they're gonna have to pay large fines. And so the only thing that'll be left is to adjudicate

00:21:43.560 | All of the staking stuff that that happened and whether that was right or wrong, right?

00:21:48.560 | So the court it'll get settled it'll get decided. I agree with that

00:21:51.440 | And I think I think that when you start talking about minutiae like well these 16 cryptos are okay or not

00:21:58.840 | Okay, no look you're kind of missing the point

00:22:00.640 | The government led by Gensler is in a full assault on crypto

00:22:05.320 | And the goal is basically to either destroy it in the US or drive it offshore

00:22:08.920 | Chamath is right about that and the question is why and I think Jake how you made the point that

00:22:14.360 | progressives like Elizabeth Warren see crypto as

00:22:19.160 | Competition to fiat currency and they do not want there to be a competitor. Now. What is the reason for that?

00:22:24.120 | I think it's because of their radical spending schemes

00:22:26.960 | Remember in the first years of the Biden administration the progressives wanted a four and a half trillion dollar build back better bill. Remember

00:22:34.080 | Larry Summers

00:22:36.680 | told them that you're gonna cause inflation and

00:22:39.080 | Even the 750 billion dollars scoped down version that they ultimately passed

00:22:43.120 | Caused a lot of inflation and it caused the problems that we have now that we're seeing in the economy

00:22:47.280 | But they wanted four and a half trillion and when people were opposed to and said we couldn't fund this they were in favor of

00:22:52.000 | minting trillion dollar coins

00:22:54.000 | Yeah, so look these are people who don't want any check on their ability to spend down the full faith and credit the United States

00:23:02.000 | They would basically spend all the money that we have they would basically eat the seed corn or don't have

00:23:08.040 | That we don't have that

00:23:09.600 | I think you guys agree we should not be spending and that is why they're the faction in our political system who are most against crypto

00:23:16.880 | The two things can be free bird. Hold on. I gotta I gotta respond to two things can be true

00:23:20.760 | One the government doesn't want to give up control of fiat. I agree with that

00:23:25.120 | Second thing that's also true is that this group of people did not want to play by the rules. They knew the rules

00:23:30.440 | They explicitly broke them for profit. That's why they have them dead to rights

00:23:34.520 | You can name this operation choke point. You can brand it you can put out any conspiracy theory you want

00:23:39.840 | They did have the option. Why is it a conspiracy theory? You agree? They're trying to run these guys

00:23:44.560 | I agree. I said two things can be true at the same time David these this is a tolerance for ambiguity being able to hold

00:23:49.720 | And they don't want to give up control yeah, that's what's happening. That's the rule you have to follow security

00:23:57.200 | You have to only allow three podcasts. You said that coinbase was a good actor. I

00:24:01.280 | Believe they have good intentions. Yes, I don't believe the other people do I do believe

00:24:05.500 | That coinbase is in violation of the law

00:24:08.280 | I believe the securities they trading are in violation of law and that's obvious if you but I believe that law should change

00:24:14.200 | Let me give you a security are

00:24:16.200 | Securities J Cal. Let me give you a third point and sacks

00:24:19.920 | Elizabeth Warren she may be motivated by the intention to preserve

00:24:25.240 | the authority of the Fiat

00:24:28.080 | But is it not also possible that a large number of people lost a lot of money?

00:24:33.080 | That they worked hard for and they used to buy crypto assets

00:24:37.240 | And then the value of those assets went down and those people lost a lot of value

00:24:41.400 | I had there was a group of guys that are house painters that painted my house

00:24:46.840 | Two summers ago and they painted the whole house. They were here every day for hours every day. So I got to speak to these guys and

00:24:53.520 | These these guys were house painters, you know, they they work for an hourly wage

00:24:58.360 | They do fairly well

00:24:59.880 | But every lunch break every break they got all that they would talk about with one another

00:25:05.000 | Was what cryptocurrency they're buying and trading in and out of with the whole intention of making money

00:25:11.440 | They all believed that they had a good point of view because they read something on the internet or got some tweet

00:25:16.760 | Or got some text or saw something on tik-tok about this one

00:25:19.840 | Crypto asset or this crypto asset and they were trading in and out and all of the money that these guys worked hard for

00:25:25.840 | Was being invested in crypto assets. You're right. That set of facts is not great. However, I don't think that's the motivation

00:25:31.320 | I think the motivation is to basically end crypto as a potential competitor to fiat money in the United States

00:25:38.080 | That's the motivation and they're gonna use those fact patterns to basically

00:25:42.560 | Support that because look turn up because we could handle that. Okay, we could do the accredited investor test

00:25:48.760 | there should be a framework or set of guidelines under which it is legal for people to buy and

00:25:54.000 | Hold or trade crypto in the United States and lose all that Brian has been asking for

00:25:59.040 | Let's give us a framework and Genzer is not giving a framework. He's just trying to basically put them out of business

00:26:04.280 | Okay, look, I think we've gone around this topic. This has been a great conversation

00:26:07.800 | I'm gonna move forward to the next topic which I think is

00:26:12.080 | really interesting in the vein of both

00:26:16.720 | De-globalization but also, you know the scale at which venture firms have gotten to Sequoia decided this week and announced publicly that

00:26:25.440 | They're splitting off their China and India Southeast Asia funds as you guys

00:26:30.800 | Obviously know Sequoia capital is a venture capital firm and within that firm

00:26:36.840 | They manage multiple funds some of the funds that they've raised and managed have been

00:26:42.040 | Specifically targeted in China where they have 56 billion dollars. I don't know if this number is accurate

00:26:48.160 | but that's an incredible number 56 billion dollars of assets under management focus just in Sequoia China and then they have a

00:26:55.360 | Sequoia India fund

00:26:57.360 | Which has about four billion dollars of capital raised in just the last three years

00:27:01.960 | And now they are separating the management company and the oversight of those funds into separate management companies. So Sequoia

00:27:09.680 | Capital will no longer oversee those China funds a new firm has been formed called Sequoia China

00:27:15.720 | That is now owned and run by a separate management team based in China and Sequoia

00:27:20.720 | India is now called peak 15 partners, which is owned and operated by a separate team of managers out of India

00:27:26.680 | Roloff Botha will manage the US and European Sequoia capital

00:27:31.520 | Neil Chen will oversee Sequoia China and Shailendra Singh

00:27:36.480 | Neil Chen, I'm sorry, Neil Chen and Shailendra Singh will oversee Sequoia India

00:27:40.760 | I guess this is a question of the Sequoia get too big or are they caving to pressure of

00:27:47.240 | The political issues arising with having deep relationships and ties with China or as they have said a lot of competition

00:27:54.080 | Between these different portfolios and companies within these portfolios amongst each other Chamath. What's your read on the action?

00:28:00.680 | Is there anything to read into this and anything to extrapolate from it?

00:28:03.840 | well, it's been a parade of missteps for Sequoia in the last couple of years and

00:28:08.680 | I'll let Sequoia figure out who to blame for this. But the reality is

00:28:14.120 | They I think felt a lot of FOMO post SoftBank

00:28:18.320 | they raised this large mega fund that kind of straddled all of the sub funds and straddled all of the regions and so

00:28:26.400 | They dangled the carrot of trying to get into the early stage US fund by investing in this big mega fund that also had China

00:28:33.280 | and India exposure and growth exposure

00:28:35.280 | then they tried this like

00:28:37.920 | very convoluted evergreen

00:28:42.080 | Structure right before the market fell apart where you could basically become a permanent capital vehicle and

00:28:48.920 | As far as I can tell from the outside looking in it just seems like a taxed tax play for the GP's to not have to

00:28:57.440 | sell and realize capital gains

00:29:00.120 | But that only works when the stock market keeps going up, which it didn't and then it's summarily

00:29:05.240 | Crushed tech stocks 80 or 90 percent. So that was a misstep and then when you put all these things together

00:29:12.400 | Now that China is contracting and we said this before I think China is largely uninvestable for the next 30 or 40 years

00:29:18.920 | It just makes sense to jettison

00:29:22.400 | Now I will say though that Neil Shen is elite if you consider in investing, I would say I have a simple rubric

00:29:29.400 | Anybody who's made more than a billion dollars for themselves as an investor. I consider elite Neil Shen is elite

00:29:36.320 | And so he'll do just fine

00:29:40.320 | Running that's Sequoia

00:29:42.240 | China business. I was surprised about why they would allow

00:29:45.960 | India to leave there's nobody that elite at Sequoia India by that rubric

00:29:51.560 | But India is a country growing at 6% a year. It literally looks like China in 2008 and 9 and

00:29:58.600 | So I'm not sure why you would let them leave

00:30:02.720 | I think that you would want to attach them to yourself because it makes the US business look better. You probably gets

00:30:09.920 | differentiated and smoothed out returns

00:30:11.920 | But I think this is a little bit of taking you of competition to mark that there was competition between the different portfolio companies

00:30:19.840 | And it was leading to conflict I

00:30:23.440 | Mean, that's dumb that happens in the United States

00:30:26.760 | Sequoia has always been known to fund everybody that they think will make money no matter how much they compete

00:30:32.360 | When they back YouTube and Moritz was sitting on the board at Google and

00:30:37.840 | Sure, look Sequoia Sequoia as an organization is elite

00:30:41.240 | They're there to make money for their LPs period end of story. And so all of the other words that can go in any press release

00:30:47.240 | Basically, I think try to hide the fact that this is an organization that's had some missteps

00:30:52.160 | They're not on solid ground. They've lost a lot of money and they're trying to figure out what to do next. I

00:30:58.680 | however, if I was running that organization would have probably done nothing and

00:31:04.560 | Just let the dust settle

00:31:07.400 | And I think that all of these actions are too close together and it's a little bit to me of

00:31:13.200 | Flailing in the water and so I don't think it was a good idea

00:31:17.000 | To let India leave. I think it made a ton of sense to cut China

00:31:22.480 | But I think all of this stuff happened started happening a few years ago

00:31:27.040 | Starting with that eight or nine billion dollar mega fund that they raised to try to compete with softbank

00:31:32.360 | Saks any read on this?

00:31:35.360 | Yeah, I mean, I think it's a example a prominent example of decoupling and

00:31:39.600 | Globalization going on. So I agree. We have to treat India and China separately with respect to China. I just think it's become

00:31:46.640 | Harder and harder for Americans to do business in China

00:31:50.360 | both because we don't really have the visibility into that system and

00:31:56.440 | There's too much political uncertainty. So kind of touch my point about it being increasingly uninvestable

00:32:03.240 | But I also think that geopolitical concerns

00:32:05.440 | It's just very hard to straddle those concerns now because the geopolitical competition is heating up so much

00:32:11.520 | I think it's investable for people like Neil Shen who are insiders in that system

00:32:16.760 | So I think you know elite Chinese investors can I'm sure make money in China over the next few decades

00:32:23.440 | But I think it's just too hard for Americans to figure that out. So I think

00:32:28.760 | Them parting ways makes a lot of sense. I think it's gonna simplify Sequoia's life a lot

00:32:33.340 | India I I agree with Jama that that's sort of a different question because India is gonna be a huge growth economy over the next

00:32:39.880 | Few decades and they are a US ally

00:32:42.320 | So it doesn't pose the same geopolitical risk

00:32:45.440 | but my guess is that it was just kind of unwieldy that it's too unwieldy to

00:32:53.640 | Kind of merge funding sources and firm management

00:32:57.680 | Across two firms that are really pretty different right the US aquarium firm and then this Indian firm

00:33:02.720 | So my guess is they just decoupled because it was just getting too hard to manage

00:33:06.920 | And if you're an LP, don't you just want the ability to say?

00:33:10.240 | Okay, I'm gonna allocate this much money to India and I'm gonna allocate this much money to the US

00:33:15.080 | I think LP is probably like it to Sequoia China is frankly over the last

00:33:20.720 | 15 or 20 years as good and probably is numerically better than Sequoia us

00:33:25.920 | So that was an elite organization just by itself Sequoia India

00:33:31.600 | I don't think has much to talk about and so maybe what?

00:33:35.240 | Roloff decided is this team is just not very good

00:33:37.880 | So we might as well just cut it and we can revisit it later

00:33:39.960 | They probably have some number of years of a non compete and then they could come back into the market five years with a totally

00:33:45.640 | New team and that may be easier

00:33:47.480 | So maybe easier just as just maybe the team actually wanted to be separate

00:33:51.480 | Look, it's hard to cross returns from two totally different funds, right?

00:33:55.720 | Because one side one side is gonna be unhappy with the trade, right? Yeah, I can give you the J

00:34:02.320 | Cal's got actual information to share. Well, no, I mean I have I think I have the closest

00:34:07.360 | Investor in your company right Jake. Oh, well, I'm an LP in their funds. They're printing money for me

00:34:12.400 | They back my second startup rule offs on the board of that company is still with me and I was their first scout

00:34:17.480 | When they started the scouts program, which is the highest

00:34:20.080 | Percentage performing fund I think they ever had

00:34:23.200 | Sequoia's when you're our you're our resident Captain America. So as a patriot, how do you feel?

00:34:28.480 | Well, they are put that aside. Sequoia is 20% of the Nasdaq

00:34:32.200 | This is the greatest venture firm of all time hands down and the Sequoia fund

00:34:35.800 | Which shut them off referred to me companies they've invested in companies

00:34:41.440 | As I guess and so the reason the Sequoia fund came out this evergreen fund was because a lot of their LPs wanted

00:34:48.280 | Sequoia to manage the public equities

00:34:51.360 | going forward because they didn't want to sell them because they realized bullshit that

00:34:55.560 | The massive gains the the gains from Google

00:35:00.120 | Apple etc of these

00:35:02.680 | Investments that they did when they were private companies Cisco the gains from public forward were greater than the gains in private

00:35:09.800 | And I've been in on these presentations. I've sat through them

00:35:12.800 | with the Sequoia team and so

00:35:16.040 | When you manage those public ones, we've all talked about the denominator problem here

00:35:21.200 | The denominator problem is hey, are they venture returns or are they part of the public equity?

00:35:25.160 | So at a giant endowment

00:35:26.400 | They want to put them into the equities bucket get them out of the venture bucket and Sequoia saw an opportunity there to manage this

00:35:31.880 | Evergreen fund I'm sure there are tax advantages to it, of course

00:35:35.720 | But with relation to what they did in China and India these these were incredibly

00:35:40.800 | Prescient and

00:35:44.400 | Innovative things they did in 2000 and 2005 when they started India and then China was 2005

00:35:50.720 | I believe they found domestic teams. You need domestic teams to do this properly

00:35:55.480 | especially in places with different governance and different regulations and

00:35:59.000 | It gives them autonomy though. They were incredible investments

00:36:03.240 | But what's happening right now is all venture investments because of AI and chips and the decoupling with China are now under

00:36:11.160 | Massive scrutiny so they can say there's brand confusion. You can talk about you know

00:36:16.480 | Collisions and who's gonna back this Chinese entrepreneur an Indian entrepreneur who also is operating in the US, right?

00:36:22.600 | These businesses operate in the US. And so what really is happening is

00:36:27.880 | The government is gonna stop all US venture investing in China. That's what's gonna happen in the coming months

00:36:33.920 | And so they're just getting ahead of that and now they will compete

00:36:37.560 | And it really has to do with chips and AI

00:36:41.360 | Okay, you may have seen some of these stories and nobody's gonna invest your if an American invest in AI in China

00:36:46.200 | That's gonna be bad and the same with chips. Yeah, you're right

00:36:49.800 | There are a bunch of stories about whether US investors should be investing in AI in China and people were saying this was un-american

00:36:57.080 | Because it was basically gonna give China an advantage against us in this key industry

00:37:02.240 | And I think that point is a good example of what I'm talking about with the geopolitical concerns. It's just getting too complicated

00:37:07.400 | Yes for Americans to invest in China. It raises too many geopolitical concerns and I think Sequoia is massively simplifying its life

00:37:15.040 | By just splitting these things up and being out. Did you see Keith for voice tweets on this? Yeah, that's what we're referring to

00:37:21.000 | Yeah, Keith for boy tweeted basically like it's un-american to invest in China at this point

00:37:26.240 | Yeah, we've talked about this before

00:37:27.280 | I mean look that the Chinese relationship primarily used to be seen as an economic relationship and people were looking for a win-win

00:37:34.120 | Basically trade scenarios and it was not seen as a moral to invest in China

00:37:39.200 | Now the relationship is primarily seen through a geopolitical lens, which is to say the balance of power, which is a zero-sum game

00:37:45.400 | It's about you know, how much better is the US doing?

00:37:48.480 | How much more powerful is it than China and anybody who's perceived as helping China in that rubric now is looked on?

00:37:54.960 | Skeptically within the United States about that

00:37:57.920 | Well, like I said, I don't think that's gonna change

00:38:01.400 | So I think Sequoia is doing the right thing to kind of like I said simplify its life what's your personal opinion? I'm curious

00:38:06.320 | I think that

00:38:08.320 | It should be possible to do business with China without it being seen as either unpatriotic or immoral

00:38:15.000 | However, there are strategic

00:38:17.120 | Technologies that are just gonna be I think it's too hard and too risky to

00:38:23.720 | To be supporting China in chips and AI

00:38:25.960 | Yeah, I mean look if somebody is using Chinese manufacturing to make toys or clothes. I don't think that's fundamentally

00:38:33.280 | strategic in a geopolitical way, but if you're helping them make

00:38:39.160 | The next generation of chips that's gonna raise a lot of questions

00:38:43.360 | So what so a VC firm?

00:38:46.160 | Freeberg can't take out chips and AI run their investment

00:38:49.520 | Hold on. I want to say something cuz sure this reminds me of one benchmark actually had benchmark Europe and then they cut it

00:38:55.480 | Do you guys remember that? Yeah, I do. Yeah and kind of retrenched. They weren't retrenching from a position of strength

00:39:00.920 | They were retrenching to reestablish themselves after a bunch of missteps

00:39:04.720 | so I think typically these retrenchments happen when there's a little bit of internal chaos and

00:39:09.320 | Mismanagement and underperformance that's not the case here. I can assure you. Yeah, but I actually think retrenching is good because it simplifies things

00:39:17.800 | You want to simplify yours? Yeah, I I totally agree with you

00:39:20.920 | My point is when I saw that overlay fund I was like, this is questionable

00:39:25.600 | but then when I saw that weird evergreen fund that to me just seemed like a tax arb and

00:39:31.320 | I thought to myself as a person who's looked at this exact stuff for my own stuff

00:39:36.200 | what I did was I just converted it to a family office and

00:39:39.960 | From a tax perspective. It was much simpler, but that exact same structure

00:39:45.240 | I looked at for myself and the reason that that structure exists and Jason

00:39:49.400 | I know you want to think it's because these endowments want them to manage public equities

00:39:53.440 | I still work with a few endowments and pension systems

00:39:56.240 | They don't and the reason they don't is they're not allowed to they're not allowed for concentration purposes

00:40:00.680 | They pay other people to manage it

00:40:02.640 | They have these outside consultants and for fiduciary

00:40:05.600 | Perspectives you have to do all of these things with respect to managing risk and one of the most obvious things that these foundations

00:40:11.280 | Do is they get distributions and they sell they don't hold and so the reason why you'd want to look at the

00:40:17.280 | Long-term gains of a stock that you distributed is because the GP sold too early

00:40:22.920 | Not the LP and I just don't I think that you should not just be a blind

00:40:27.560 | Surrogate on this topic and actually really think about well, I mean, I don't think you need to well

00:40:32.320 | I'm not I'm not and you know square if you look at something like that, you know, Roloff's still on the board of square

00:40:38.200 | I believe so they Sequoia has realized over time, you know as it's been explained to me as an LP that you know

00:40:45.040 | these companies grow the outliers continue to grow massively when they become public and

00:40:50.520 | Sequoia is now staying on the board of those companies and so they actually have the most insight into it because they backed it when

00:40:55.840 | It was two people and then they're still on the board

00:40:58.160 | That's not the point money is not infinite

00:41:00.160 | And if you're a foundation and you're legally obligated to distribute some percentage every year

00:41:04.760 | You need the money back and the foundations do get to choose some foundations want to go along Harvard or whoever

00:41:10.480 | I'm just picking, you know, one of the large ones if somebody's got 30 40 billion dollars

00:41:14.000 | They may not need to liquidate that and they might very much

00:41:16.400 | I'm just the only person that is in a position to actually hold for the long term because it's so tax advantageous is the GP

00:41:23.480 | That is why that fund was created and I will bet you if you ask him under oath

00:41:28.960 | Why they did it I'll tell you it was for themselves

00:41:33.520 | I will people have the church million dollars for charity

00:41:37.200 | Whatever you want to do

00:41:37.880 | I bet you if you put him under oath and you subpoena him and you ask him why he did it

00:41:41.280 | He'll say he did it for himself and that's fine

00:41:43.560 | All I'm saying is that's the kind of complexity that sacks is talking about that does not add to success

00:41:48.720 | It is over complexifying something that doesn't need to be complicated

00:41:52.960 | Yeah, I disagree with you, but we can just move on. Well, we agree to disagree sometimes here on the all-in podcast

00:41:58.360 | we're gonna move on for our last topic of the day with the

00:42:02.520 | announcement see can we talk messy? No, no, we're not good. We're good because we're gonna do one last topic, which I think is

00:42:07.200 | PGA and messy go together. Yeah, so let's just talk about the PGA

00:42:10.600 | No, we don't have time guys. I appreciate the messy interest, but we're gonna talk about something less messy

00:42:15.600 | Who cares? I think it's pretty interesting for a couple of reasons

00:42:19.840 | So as you guys know, the PGA tour has been around since 1930

00:42:24.240 | I think the PGA tour makes 1.6 billion dollars a year if reports are correct. I make 1.6 billion a year boring

00:42:32.200 | I mean depends on the year

00:42:34.040 | all of the players on the PGA tour are

00:42:36.520 | independent contractors

00:42:38.480 | so Saudi Arabia's public investment fund and this is what I think is one of the more interesting aspects of this story and

00:42:45.800 | Maybe speaks to a broader kind of set of geopolitical

00:42:51.000 | Transitions that are underway the Saudi Arabian public invention

00:42:56.560 | Public investment fund started Li V golf as an alternative to the PGA tour live golf live golf

00:43:02.880 | they invested two billion dollars of capital and

00:43:06.000 | offered

00:43:08.320 | Guarantees to golfers to come and get on their tour. They ended up

00:43:12.120 | Offering at one point Tiger Woods reportedly got an 800 million dollar guarantee

00:43:16.560 | To join their tour which he turned down Phil Mickelson got a reported 200 million dollar guarantee

00:43:23.160 | Which he took to join the tour Hideki Matsuyama got offered 750 K 750 million

00:43:28.720 | which I might so seven of the ten top paid golfers in the world actually signed up and

00:43:34.520 | It caused obviously significant disruption to what has effectively been a monopoly, which is the PGA tour in golf in professional golf

00:43:43.000 | and

00:43:44.680 | Here we are two years later

00:43:46.760 | And it was announced this week that live and PGA are merging and the current PGA tour commissioner

00:43:53.320 | Jay Moynihan will serve as CEO of the new entity

00:43:56.000 | Just by way of reference

00:43:57.760 | Jay Moynihan makes a reported 14 to 15 million dollars a year in salary as CEO of the PGA tour

00:44:03.800 | He will now be CEO of this combined

00:44:05.800 | Organization one big question mark is how much is he getting paid and did that help secure and solidify this deal getting done?

00:44:14.040 | But I think another big question is do we think this will actually close will this face regulatory and antitrust scrutiny?

00:44:19.440 | Will this face CFS because it is the Saudi Arabian public investment fund that is effectively taking a large stake in the PGA tour

00:44:27.000 | Let's go to our resident professional sports team owner or former minority owner Chamath

00:44:33.680 | And he takes on

00:44:36.760 | On this announced merger. What does it say about the PGA's ability to hold action?

00:44:40.960 | This is what's so crazy about your topic selection

00:44:43.920 | Messi was offered 1.6 billion dollars personally by the Saudis and you don't want to talk about that because you want to talk about

00:44:50.960 | a whole organization playing an antiquated sport that itself generates

00:44:54.920 | 1.6 billion dollars

00:44:57.680 | Welcome to being the moderator

00:45:00.120 | I don't care about golf. I don't care. The reason this is so controversial is

00:45:09.480 | That they're calling it sports washing trying to make the reputation of Saudi more palatable in the West by

00:45:15.640 | using sports things people love

00:45:18.120 | the reason this has become controversial is because of the hypocrisy of it the PGA fought against live and

00:45:24.560 | This guy Jay Moynihan who is the CEO of this he basically evoked the 9/11 families and

00:45:33.720 | Went on a whole thing about how evil live was

00:45:37.160 | Only to then secure the bag and then there's some back channel here about

00:45:42.400 | Well, there was a lawsuit between the live golfers, you know

00:45:46.280 | Who are now banned from playing the PGA when they signed up and antitrust stuff

00:45:50.320 | And so the hypocrisy of the group is what's being pulled into question here

00:45:56.320 | Come on, this is why it's important size the players who took the money were ostracized

00:46:01.760 | As supporting an evil regime

00:46:03.760 | Yeah, and now it's clear that they were smart and Tiger should have taken the money and

00:46:09.800 | Actually the guy who said as much at the time was was Trump, you know, he

00:46:14.940 | Yeah, he nailed it's like one of these

00:46:18.760 | He's basically said that take the money from live because eventually live in PGA are gonna merge and then the guys who stuck with PGA

00:46:28.160 | You're gonna get nothing and they're gonna feel like idiots. He was totally right

00:46:31.840 | Come on come on, you don't think that that's insane. I mean, come on, it's pretty amazing

00:46:37.280 | Tell me when you get to messy and the fact that these guys were proclaiming that if you're gonna go join this tour

00:46:43.080 | You're joining, you know

00:46:45.080 | I don't understand whether I don't understand whether you're naive or dumb. This is like about money

00:46:49.800 | It's always about money professional sports has always been about money. What what are we what are we talking about?

00:46:55.880 | Money money money money money. There's your answer money drove the answer money drove the split money drove the deals now money drove the merger

00:47:02.860 | I don't understand. Can we talk about messy, please? It's so much more interesting. Okay, go talk about messy tomorrow. I

00:47:08.000 | Mean the messy thing is so incredible

00:47:10.640 | Because Cristiano Ronaldo went to a team in Saudi

00:47:14.880 | To play in the August of his career the last two or three years and this has been a thing that started with Pele in

00:47:21.640 | The 70s Pele came to the New York

00:47:24.000 | Cosmos and played Beckham famously did it as well came to the LA Galaxy

00:47:28.200 | But Beckham did this one interesting thing, which is he said, okay, I'm gonna come to play in the MLS on

00:47:34.440 | One condition really which is I'll take a huge pay cut and all of this stuff

00:47:38.440 | But I want an option to buy an expansion team for 25 million bucks

00:47:42.360 | Fast forward he ended up buying inter Miami

00:47:45.960 | That team is now worth five hundred and eighty five million dollars

00:47:50.640 | So messy is 36 years old. He's about to enter the August of his career. He's won everything. He's done everything possible

00:47:56.600 | He is so incredible. I mean, I love him. I love him

00:48:00.520 | he gets offered four hundred million dollars a year for four years to go play in Saudi Arabia a

00:48:06.520 | 1.6 billion dollar deal and

00:48:08.960 | You know, there's no income tax here. So that's like 1.6 billion dollars right in his pocket

00:48:14.600 | Except the deal that he did

00:48:18.000 | Which was for a lot less upfront is really interesting

00:48:21.920 | He basically said I'll come to the United States and play in inter Miami

00:48:26.760 | for for the Miami Football Club

00:48:29.400 | But I am you know, basically, I'm not sure he said this so I'm using my own words. I'm the greatest player in the world

00:48:37.400 | Every time I do something magical on the field

00:48:40.520 | I'm creating content that will sell tickets and create brand awareness and move the interest level of soccer in the United States

00:48:48.160 | I'm a content creator. So I want a piece of this content and so Apple

00:48:53.320 | Who signed a two and a half billion dollar ten-year license for the MLS said you're right

00:48:58.600 | You're probably gonna sell more subscriptions for me. I'll give you a piece of the ref share and

00:49:02.840 | Then adidas said, you know what? You're right. You're probably gonna sell more shoes for me. I'll give you a piece of those shoes

00:49:09.880 | So in one fell swoop, I think what's amazing is

00:49:14.400 | Messi is not an athlete in this deal. I think going back to a theme that we've talked about a lot is

00:49:19.680 | He is this

00:49:22.280 | Ultimate penultimate whatever. He's an elite content creator

00:49:25.720 | He's the equity who is now creating

00:49:29.160 | Incredible who will come to the United States to create this incredible content that will move viewership move merchandise

00:49:35.960 | And he's gonna monetize that so it's effectively like becoming the Jordan brand

00:49:41.840 | Getting a piece of Netflix all in one. He has the equity in those businesses basically

00:49:45.880 | Yeah, there's a subtle point Schmott's making in the deal. You have the person who's responsible for distribution

00:49:52.240 | so this would be the same as like the NBA on ABC ESPN or TNT and

00:49:56.240 | TNT or ESPN saying you know what you're so important LeBron James to play in this or Steph Curry

00:50:01.880 | We're gonna give you a piece of the subscriptions to ESPN

00:50:06.120 | So Apple is giving him rev share on their Apple TV League pass for MLS

00:50:12.320 | That's nuts like and this is I think it goes back to the live

00:50:16.480 | Deal with PGA, which is people are looking at these sports leagues and saying let's get creative

00:50:21.840 | It goes back to a different one. The the NBA just signed a new collective bargaining agreement that they're gonna ratify

00:50:27.440 | I always thought that the real thing that the NBA Players Association should be asking for equity was equity

00:50:35.200 | Yeah, and that equity could be phantom equity and the teams because it's clear that in the absence of the players

00:50:40.920 | There's no viewership and there's no appreciation in the value of those franchises. And so the idea that LeBron

00:50:47.920 | You know Steph Dre KD

00:50:51.360 | Don't own a huge piece of the underlying equity gains that they're creating in the period in which their players is pretty crazy now

00:51:00.120 | the ownership their perspective is while we translate that in terms of rev share, but it's really not true because if you look at the

00:51:07.640 | Kager the IRR of the franchise values versus the K gring of the salaries. They're not equivalent

00:51:13.720 | Yeah, so I just think it has huge implications

00:51:17.160 | to all the professional sports leagues because these big stars

00:51:21.120 | Should be asking their agents and their managers. How do I do a deal like Messi?

00:51:25.720 | I am the ultimate content creator in my league. The dynamics are changing it will it will no longer be an employee

00:51:32.600 | Capital labor situation, but capital is merging with labor

00:51:36.360 | Bravo and labor labor is basically becoming the equity in the equation and they are going to pursue the business just like

00:51:43.000 | And we're and by the way, the reason we see it happening so much is because of the social media age and it's really incredible

00:51:49.200 | It's but it wasn't like that. I know you have more to say we all have more to say

00:51:53.800 | I just want to highlight I need to go I have to go to a kindergarten graduation. Congratulations

00:51:58.600 | Congrats close to chef you I love you guys. I'll see you later. Adios. Congrats. Thank God. Bye. Well, what's really interesting?

00:52:05.080 | Chamath to your point about the CBA is they're gonna make these huge salaries

00:52:10.200 | They're not gonna give them the equity as part of

00:52:13.440 | their

00:52:15.800 | Five-year deal they make the money

00:52:17.800 | They then have the ability to invest in a team so you can be LeBron and you could be investing in the Knicks

00:52:22.800 | Maybe if somebody wanted to sell a percentage of it, you can invest in any NBA team

00:52:27.040 | Any sports betting team any sports betting?

00:52:30.200 | I actually think there's a simpler way to do this

00:52:32.400 | Which is it's it's I think it's fair to say that when you join a team

00:52:35.400 | It's like joining a company and you can create shadow equity and that shadow equity says you came in at this point

00:52:41.840 | Right you left at this point here was the Delta of the value and I think a good agent should be

00:52:48.720 | Negotiating on behalf of a player most players will not get that much a few basis points of that value

00:52:54.000 | Yeah, but the idea that a LeBron James can go to a Miami and double the franchise value double

00:52:59.440 | Yeah, right from you know, one or style it or Steph Steph steps a better

00:53:04.880 | Okay, great stuff comes in at 480 million and is now 5.3 billion. So that's a 10x thing plus of value

00:53:10.880 | You know is step responsible for 10 or 15 percent

00:53:14.240 | Should a billion dollars of that go to Steph Dre and clay. I think you can make a great claim that it could yeah

00:53:20.240 | Absolutely put them on the map. So yeah

00:53:22.440 | It would be and it would be pretty easy to do and what this might do is keep people on the same team longer

00:53:28.080 | Which is what fans want exactly why people moving around?

00:53:30.600 | That's a great point and private companies like Cargill or Koch Industries

00:53:35.120 | They have these shadow equity programs that they've had for years for decades that they've run on behalf of their employees

00:53:41.120 | So we know how to run

00:53:44.120 | phantom

00:53:45.160 | phantom equity programs in private businesses and

00:53:48.040 | I just think the leadership of the NBA Players Association the NFL Players Association is

00:53:54.080 | Right now still lacking the sophistication

00:53:56.720 | To understand this well enough to then propose when the next time it is to to negotiate this kind of a deal

00:54:04.960 | But when you see things like this messy deal, I think it's a game changer

00:54:09.880 | It is a game changer and I think for sports, I don't know if you saw

00:54:14.040 | Adam Silver gave you know a little press conference with the finals and everything

00:54:19.080 | He was talking about the J. Murrah Moran situation with the guns

00:54:21.440 | It's just a lot of like topics coming up

00:54:23.200 | But one of the topics that was probably under appreciated was he was talking about the bundle the cable bundles going away

00:54:29.760 | And that people can't watch like the TNT a NBA on TNT, whatever that is with, you know, Charles Barkley, etc

00:54:36.560 | and

00:54:37.720 | He wants that to be available for free

00:54:39.720 | So he's gonna challenge people in the new TV deal

00:54:41.840 | If you want to have the NBA

00:54:43.320 | You have to have it available to every because the number of people who can see NBA games has been going down

00:54:48.680 | I have a question for you because you think more people do you think more people would pay for a subscription to watch the Knicks?

00:54:55.560 | games

00:54:56.440 | Wherever they happen to be all over the world or a subscription to watch Steph Curry

00:54:59.760 | No matter what team he plays on hmm, the old generations are loyal to the teams the new generations well to players

00:55:04.880 | So it's a generational miracle numerical question, which one's great. It's probably a jump ball right now, but it will eventually be they'll follow the players

00:55:12.320 | Because this new generation follows players like our kids like I don't think Ron from I've seen to take I think you could probably sell

00:55:19.400 | A few hundred thousand subscriptions to the Knicks and I think you'd sell mid millions for stuff

00:55:24.360 | What's gonna happen now is I think they're going to they just want this to be ad based and to directly subscribe

00:55:31.720 | So I directly subscribe to the NBA I get every game for $200 a year with no ads

00:55:35.240 | You know what? You know what we should do. I actually have a great idea

00:55:37.880 | What we should do is we go we should what live did to the PGA we should do to the NBA. Let's get together

00:55:42.960 | 20 billion dollars. Let's start a competitive NBA League where we give the players all there is a structured phantom equity plan

00:55:51.600 | Pay these guys a hundred million bucks a year get all the big guys to come everybody else will come

00:55:57.080 | And just blow the whole thing wide open

00:55:59.160 | By the way, that's the blueprint now if you want to really compete with the with the NFL or the NBA or the NHL

00:56:04.640 | This is what you should do put together 20 or 30 billion, which is not that much money and

00:56:08.440 | Go for it

00:56:09.920 | You only need to get a couple of stars to blow it up

00:56:12.640 | And if you give stars the equity in the league, they'll convince all the other players to come

00:56:15.880 | I'll give let's give sacks some red meat here you sacks. I'll give you a little red meat. You want Tucker on Twitter

00:56:20.640 | There's your red meat choices as we wrap you want Tucker on Twitter?

00:56:24.240 | you want a

00:56:27.120 | Russian controlled dam being destroyed for a major flood or

00:56:31.080 | Do you want Chris Christie joining the race? Which red meat would you like?

00:56:35.880 | Which red meat we put in front of crazy hair

00:56:38.680 | Well, I mean what's happening Ukraine is really the big news this week. I mean

00:56:43.040 | offensive has well the Ukrainian counteroffensive has started in earnest and

00:56:47.560 | Yes in conjunction with that you're at the destruction of that major dam

00:56:51.720 | Which it's not clear who did it. I mean both sides are pointing the finger at each other

00:56:56.720 | so and there are

00:56:58.720 | Reasonable arguments for why either side may have done it in terms of who benefits it seems to benefit the Ukrainians more because

00:57:06.440 | the destruction of the dam washed out a bunch of Russian defensive fortifications and

00:57:12.120 | villages of Russian speakers on the other hand

00:57:16.480 | The Russians were in control of the dam

00:57:20.080 | So it would have been easier for them to carry it out if they had wanted to we just don't know but I think you

00:57:26.400 | Know events have now moved beyond that and we are now probably in the third or fourth day of the Ukrainian counteroffensive

00:57:32.160 | of course has not been officially declared, but there is

00:57:34.480 | major major fighting happening now where

00:57:37.560 | Ukrainian armored divisions are seeking to

00:57:40.800 | you know penetrate Russian defensive lines around Zaporizhzhia and

00:57:46.000 | So the long-awaited Ukrainian counteroffensive has certainly begun. How does the?

00:57:52.800 | The dam relate to the Nord Stream pipeline because these are both situations where people are like who actually did it

00:57:58.800 | What's their motivation and let's face it. These are

00:58:01.600 | chaotic actors at times and

00:58:04.520 | Figuring out who has the motivation to do these things

00:58:08.480 | Seems like a leveling up kind of game because you can't put it past either party in some cases, but in the case of Nord Stream

00:58:16.200 | People saying hey, it was the Ukraine, but then there's this argument that the Ukraine's not capable of doing it

00:58:21.680 | Or maybe it was sanctioned by the US or the West and then executed by Ukraine

00:58:24.960 | But where do you wind up with all these so on Nord Stream?

00:58:28.520 | We're now on our third cover story the CIA sourcing their stenographers at the Washington Post have now claimed that it was six

00:58:36.360 | Ukrainian dudes in a yacht who blew up Nord Stream

00:58:39.560 | No, seriously, and if you look at this boat, I'll put a photo of the boat on the screen. It's it's pretty silly

00:58:45.560 | It's a 10 great. Yeah, the Ukrainians do not have a Navy and they certainly don't have Navy SEALs

00:58:51.040 | I don't believe they have the capability to by the way that this destruction of Nord Stream Nord Stream was this huge

00:58:57.560 | underwater steel and concrete

00:59:00.280 | Structure, it's not that deep though

00:59:03.000 | Cuz it's only a hundred fifty or two hundred feet deep at the lower points deep enough and it took a lot of explosives

00:59:08.920 | So they had to know what they were doing. So I dove 120 feet once so it's but the point is that when when Nord Stream

00:59:15.320 | was first destroyed

00:59:16.960 | The media rushed out to say well the Russians did it even though the Russians had no motive to do it

00:59:22.040 | It was their own is their pipeline. They could just turn it off if they wanted to

00:59:25.280 | But this is what we hear is that every time something destructive happens, it's the Russians did it

00:59:30.360 | Why would they attack themselves because they're so crazy?

00:59:32.920 | We heard this with Nord Stream when Belgorod which is a Russian district just across the border from Ukraine was attacked

00:59:39.320 | It was claimed that the Russians did it. These were Russian insurgents. No, that's pretty silly

00:59:44.600 | It was Ukrainians dressed in Russian uniforms and just recently when there were drone attacks on Moscow

00:59:50.480 | We were also told that oh, it wasn't Ukrainians who did it was Russian dissidents or something, which again makes no sense

00:59:55.720 | so this is not to say that

00:59:58.360 | The Russians didn't blow up that dam is just to say that

01:00:01.960 | Whenever the story is rushed out that the Russians did something highly destructive you have to

01:00:06.800 | We need to see some evidence here and we just don't know it's just hard to know the fog of war is thick

01:00:13.240 | All right. What did you think of Tucker's first?

01:00:15.880 | Show it's getting sued but he got the tweet got at least like 90 million views

01:00:22.200 | Which means the video probably got 10% of that or something

01:00:24.480 | So probably video yesterday was at 17 million views or something like that. So I'm sure it's more today

01:00:30.040 | So no, he's getting huge distribution through Twitter arguably. It's more distribution

01:00:35.160 | It's almost certainly more distribution than they got through Fox Fox was 3 million, right?

01:00:39.280 | Yeah, that's how many viewers he gets on Fox. Yeah. Well Fox is half of that now because they've

01:00:43.320 | They've attracted so much viewership after Tucker left

01:00:46.880 | But look the only thing that I think Tucker got through Fox was access to frankly a viewership base

01:00:52.960 | That's not very online. There are a lot of old people who watch Fox who just aren't on social media. That's it though

01:00:59.520 | Everybody else can see it on Twitter and he's getting more distribution on Twitter

01:01:03.480 | Super distribution is the way to go

01:01:06.600 | He's gonna get

01:01:08.680 | 25 million people and of course monetizing it is the hard part because Fox is subscription revenue and everything else is

01:01:15.960 | He's creating a list, you know, he advertised the website Tucker Carlson calm at the end of his

01:01:21.480 | Video and you can go there and sign up for you subscribe direct and get it on his website

01:01:27.120 | I don't think he's monetizing it yet, but you can sign up for alerts and so forth

01:01:31.360 | So he's clearly creating a list of some kind. That's probably because he yeah with his

01:01:36.800 | Contract is still getting paid. And so he's like, yeah daily wire is the model

01:01:40.720 | I mean, they they have got well over a hundred million in revenue. I understand and they have a massive subscription business

01:01:46.640 | So there's a clear path there. All right. Hey listen for the

01:01:49.080 | world's greatest moderator

01:01:51.840 | living in the Bay Area David Friedberg and

01:01:54.760 | the dictator himself Chamath Palihapitiya and the architect hosting any number of

01:02:01.280 | Fundraisers for any number of politicians David Sachs the rain man. I am the world's greatest moderator taking a week off

01:02:07.840 | We'll see you next week. Oh and enjoy some Q&A here from the live angels summit hundred people in Napa. Thanks for coming besties

01:02:15.320 | I appreciate you. Love your voice during the event. Love you besties. See you next time. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye

01:02:19.640 | All right, welcome to a baptism

01:02:23.160 | John the Baptist

01:02:27.480 | Are you ready to accept Christ freeberg into your soul I

01:02:31.320 | Honestly have no idea what I'm doing here. I've I

01:02:35.200 | Have no idea who these people are or what this is or why you're all wearing white. I

01:02:42.240 | Mean seriously, I'm sure you're very nice people, but I have no idea what this is

01:02:47.800 | Have you seen the wicker man? Jake? I was like we're taping an episode in Napa and I'm like what on a you know off day

01:02:56.880 | Monday are you okay, buddy? Yeah, you low blood sugar. Yeah, actually I do bring us like a cheese plate or something

01:03:03.240 | Guacamole and chips

01:03:07.400 | Please but honestly like I didn't sign up for this. I thought we I

01:03:11.840 | Thought we disagreed to a podcast and somehow we've been roped into doing some dog and pony show for

01:03:18.800 | By the way, is that true these are a bunch of your LPS as well

01:03:25.040 | You just have never met them

01:03:27.040 | Literally, okay, I'll drink it. Yes. Yes, sir

01:03:31.920 | Literally, someone's like Jake out. I'm with this incredible endowment. We're incredibly successful. I'm like, oh, that's great. Yes, you heard

01:03:38.040 | I'm raising a fund. They're like no no, no, no. No, um, we heard sax is gonna be here

01:03:42.000 | I'm like, yeah, you want to meet him invest in front? Oh, no, we've invested in all his funds. We just never met him

01:03:45.940 | And so wow, that's one way

01:03:52.320 | Two things they've never seen sacks and a distribution

01:03:55.560 | Fucking decision, whoever you are. You're a real fucking genius back there

01:04:04.120 | Except for the fun we already paid back. Oh

01:04:09.040 | My god, I lost control of it in the first 90 seconds

01:04:14.640 | Why should tonight be any different except for the five-year-old fun? That's already fully returned

01:04:22.080 | So

01:04:23.520 | Welcome to the angel summit. These are my besties. We do a podcast called all in we thought we'd do it live

01:04:28.800 | this is the

01:04:30.280 | Fourth time we've ever appeared on stage together

01:04:33.440 | The first two times were at freeberg's LP conference in the Presidio. Yeah, I

01:04:39.000 | Resented that one, too

01:04:41.800 | Coming out to see humans

01:04:47.480 | Came out in his mask. He took his gloves off

01:04:49.480 | It was very uncomfortable for him, but he eased into a seat

01:04:52.600 | And then of course we did the all-in summit last year in Miami and

01:04:55.960 | This is the fourth time. So it's great to be out here

01:04:59.400 | We have a couple of news items on the docket

01:05:01.440 | We could start with or we can go right to Q&A with these many audience members who have a lot of questions

01:05:06.880 | What would you gentlemen like to do?

01:05:08.880 | Chamath has a few words. He'd like to say go ahead

01:05:11.160 | Chamath is drunk by the way, he texted us

01:05:16.640 | You can see that grin on his face. That's the Chamath grin. He gives when he decided

01:05:21.800 | That he would not have LPS and he would just invest his own money he does not care

01:05:29.200 | So it's the gloves are off. Let's do Q&A Jay Levy's is sacks. What's the path for DeSantis to win the nomination?

01:05:36.640 | And get the base of Trump Oh red meat. Oh good

01:05:41.640 | Here we go. I think the path basically is he has to win Iowa and or New Hampshire. It's just that simple

01:05:47.840 | But keep in mind that Trump did not win Iowa last or in 2016 Ted Cruz did

01:05:54.720 | Iowa tends to be more religious. I think Santas is trying to

01:05:59.480 | outflank Trump on the right actually on certain issues and

01:06:03.800 | So he's on the ground there campaigning. I for I understand he's generating a lot of interest and enthusiasm

01:06:11.400 | And he's gonna keep plugging away at it. I think he's gonna out hustle Trump

01:06:15.320 | I'm not saying he's gonna win but I think he's gonna work harder and the path would be that over the next

01:06:21.000 | What is it like nine months that Trump's style and message which is admittedly much more entertaining than DeSantis

01:06:28.640 | but kind of fatiguing whether that kind of gets old and

01:06:32.320 | DeSantis is more like disciplined messaging people just kind of wake up and say, you know what like I don't really want to go back to

01:06:39.680 | the chaos of

01:06:41.680 | the whole Trump show at this seems like

01:06:44.040 | better to me so

01:06:46.680 | That's basically what I think has to happen is Trump fatigue has to set in and people realize that there's a different

01:06:52.840 | Was that CNN Town Hall a sign that?

01:06:55.400 | Some group of people find him incredibly entertaining and the media themselves want him back because it's great for ratings

01:07:02.560 | I'll uh Mencken on session or

01:07:06.480 | Is it a sign that like my god, that's so fucking exhausting like you're saying sacks

01:07:10.480 | What do you think?

01:07:11.040 | I think that the the base like the town hall because it was Trump walking into the lion's den

01:07:17.640 | Standing up to the mainstream media, which is what they like, but I don't think it did anything to help him in the general

01:07:23.400 | because I think that

01:07:25.360 | viewers who

01:07:26.960 | Don't like Trump or aren't entertained by Trump. I mean, there's nothing there to really grab on to I don't think so

01:07:33.880 | But but look I think your point about who does the media want to get the Republican nomination?

01:07:37.920 | Definitely Trump because he's good for ratings

01:07:41.200 | And it really is that simple and they think they can beat him

01:07:44.200 | So right now the Biden people the Trump people and the media all

01:07:48.480 | want Trump over to Santas and that is why like to Santa's is getting dispatched by everybody right now is because

01:07:57.000 | You know, everyone's kind of aligned on this

01:08:00.360 | but the minute that Trump gets the nomination is all gonna turn the media all of a sudden is gonna turn on Trump and

01:08:05.720 | Then we're gonna see what the real campaign is gonna be a Santa's is in show business as they said on secession

01:08:10.920 | Was that the quote you show business? He's box office. He's not box. Yeah, just add this is a box office

01:08:15.960 | He's a somebody who actually can execute right, right, but also that's that's why he'd be a good move for Republicans

01:08:22.480 | I think is because he doesn't give the Democrats as much to work with. Yeah

01:08:25.920 | All right, entertaining, but he gives his enemies so much to work with. All right, another question from the back

01:08:31.160 | Go ahead stand up. Tell us your name. Yeah

01:08:33.440 | Sal Dacher from Boston and

01:08:36.160 | The question is much less exciting

01:08:41.320 | regarding sort of in the problem of bank bank runs and bank insurance by the Fed and

01:08:48.600 | bailing out, you know average people bailing out wealthy people I

01:08:55.560 | Have heard a lot of solutions about this I've been

01:08:57.640 | So careers and banking for a while

01:09:00.280 | the idea of having senior management and the board have direct liability

01:09:05.840 | If the feds have to step in to rescue the bank

01:09:09.800 | Do you think that that could be a step in the right direction in?

01:09:13.080 | Preventing banks from taking risks. They really shouldn't have taken I mean the 2008 disaster

01:09:19.400 | The subprime crisis could have been addressed with this

01:09:21.760 | I think this crisis with SVP could have been addressed with management just having a lot more to lose

01:09:27.120 | Okay, so let me just first take issue with the terminology of bailout

01:09:31.400 | I know that's what everyone calls it a bailout in my mind is when the shareholders of the bondholders of the bank get bailed out

01:09:37.680 | By taxpayers that happened in 2008. It did not happen here here. The question was whether depositors get made whole or not. I

01:09:45.680 | Personally don't consider that a bailout

01:09:48.200 | I understand that there are people who do but it is a slightly different issue as to the bank management, you know

01:09:54.360 | You're talking about like a strict liability standard here that

01:09:58.720 | I mean basically you're talking about piercing the corporate veil and making the bank executives and their

01:10:05.960 | directors liable for

01:10:08.480 | mismanagement of the bank and

01:10:10.120 | That is that's a pretty high bar

01:10:11.840 | That's a really high bar and the problem with it is that I would never serve on the board of a bank

01:10:16.520 | I mean, I probably wouldn't anyway, but if you told me that I could be

01:10:20.120 | liable piercing the bow

01:10:22.840 | Right, we have a thing called the business judgment rule, you know in

01:10:27.000 | Delaware where if directors and officers of the company perform

01:10:32.480 | Their job in a good faith way making the best decisions they can and it goes wrong

01:10:39.240 | They're not typically liable for that. Maybe the corporation's liable if they're not personally liable

01:10:44.080 | I'd look if you did that

01:10:46.080 | the managers wouldn't invest the cash in anything because they wouldn't want to take any risk of loss and

01:10:52.560 | In order to operate the business which has a bunch of people working there and a bunch of banks that they got to operate

01:10:57.080 | They're gonna charge you a fee to hold your money for you

01:10:58.720 | And so what happens is interest rates turn negative and you basically have to pay someone to hold your money for you

01:11:03.840 | And that's what's a little bit messed up about the way the banking system works today

01:11:07.080 | Is you're effectively giving a money manager the right to invest your money for you. They take your money

01:11:12.200 | they pay you a low interest rate may go invested in high interest rate stuff by taking on risk with your capital and

01:11:17.120 | Ultimately, they can take losses on that and if you want it to make them liable for those losses

01:11:21.560 | They're not going to take that risk and the bank is gonna have to change its business model from being an arbitrage business

01:11:27.240 | To being a service fee business and they're gonna have to figure out other ways to charge you service fees

01:11:31.480 | Including charging you to hold your money in order to make money and that's what a lot of the banks are now doing first

01:11:36.720 | Republic and others have now proclaimed that they're gonna start charging a lot more service fees to hold your money and they're gonna start taking

01:11:42.080 | A lot less risk, so we're already headed in that direction

01:11:44.440 | But that's fundamentally what I think would let's take another question from the audience

01:11:48.720 | Good evening. I'm Lisa song Sutton, Las Vegas, Nevada

01:11:52.600 | I'm GP in the veteran fund as investors you all invest in entrepreneurs

01:11:58.000 | Theoretically support American entrepreneurship. What role if any do you think VCS should have in?

01:12:04.480 | shaping advocating supporting conservative economic policy in the country

01:12:09.360 | Shemot

01:12:11.600 | zero

01:12:13.600 | I think that we have to know the role that you're doing if you're a venture investor

01:12:19.560 | which is you're buying a deep out of the money option and

01:12:23.440 | I think that you want to motivate the people that you are partnering with

01:12:28.280 | to take really thoughtful but outsized risks and

01:12:32.040 | So I don't think there's a lot of room for

01:12:36.960 | Conservativism I do think that there's room for

01:12:39.200 | misallocation of capital and I think that there's people that can help guide that but the reality is that when you start a company

01:12:46.520 | it's 95% likely to fail and the venture investor is signing up for a

01:12:53.120 | 70 or 80 percent

01:12:56.520 | Probability that they lose capital

01:12:58.680 | Maybe a 10 or 15 or 20 percent chance that they get their money back and then the small

01:13:03.080 | 5 percent chance that it becomes reasonable

01:13:06.240 | so

01:13:07.480 | In that lens, I don't think that's where

01:13:10.440 | conservative economic policies really should play a role I

01:13:15.440 | Think you just kind of got to go for it

01:13:18.600 | And if it's gonna win it's gonna win big and if it doesn't you lose one extra money

01:13:23.520 | I think like where you want conservative economic and rational thinking is when you go to the extreme other end

01:13:30.640 | which is just like the large-scale decisions that affect the economic vibrancy of the country in which you live and

01:13:37.760 | They're on the margins. You probably want to be more rational than unrational irrational, but as a venture investor

01:13:43.520 | I think you want to be irrational, but I also think you have to be very judgmental and

01:13:47.120 | The reality is that most companies aren't gonna work and most people

01:13:51.520 | This may seem countervert controversial most people

01:13:58.120 | Actually when push comes to shove are a little afraid of the decisions they need to make to be truly successful

01:14:03.080 | They're not willing to fire the people that they need to fire

01:14:07.560 | They're not willing to be extreme in the product. They want to build they're not willing to price it

01:14:11.120 | they're not willing to go to market in an extreme way and

01:14:13.520 | It tends to be that these companies fail because of that a lack of courage a lack of conviction

01:14:19.120 | It's a lack of courage or conviction because that that's a very heightened word

01:14:22.680 | I just think that when push comes to shove most people implode with the pressure of making a very very hard decision

01:14:28.560 | Hmm interesting. All right in my experience. It could be yours could be no, I mean, I

01:14:33.160 | Agree with you largely when a startup does fail

01:14:36.400 | If the experience people around it are watching and can't get through to the founder of the founding team

01:14:41.640 | It's typically they are blocking their own success. They're unwilling to fire their co-founder

01:14:47.720 | their CTO as the example you're alluding to perhaps or raise the price of the software and lose some customers or

01:14:53.240 | To drive people to work harder because you've got a competitor in the space and that's why you see extreme people win in

01:14:59.760 | Our pursuit and I think there's been just a great fallacy that's gone on

01:15:04.240 | That you can have live work balance or life work balance and you could have this

01:15:08.800 | Nirvana where you have it all the fact is the great companies are made by people who make great

01:15:13.300 | Sacrifices period full stop and if you're not willing to make the great sacrifice, you're not gonna have great outcomes

01:15:17.960 | Hi, David Samuel earlier today Jason you had kind of a doomsday or AI

01:15:23.080 | Panelist and my question is you guys have been thrust into the public spotlight and we look at deep fakes in the next year

01:15:30.280 | Or two as you talk about, you know tweeting on Friday versus Wednesday

01:15:33.980 | how do you think about somebody having each of you saying things that you did not say and

01:15:40.000 | Like how might we know whether Chamath said that or it was a deep fake saying it. I already have that problem. Yeah

01:15:50.160 | Insider last week where somebody was saying I had a phone call. I never had so how do we solve this?

01:15:55.240 | Especially for you as well as public two things two things one

01:15:58.840 | I don't think people can say more outlandish and damaging things in AI than we say ourselves

01:16:04.040 | On this podcast at times but number two, you know as we've discussed many times on this podcast

01:16:11.480 | We have rebooted our trust

01:16:14.040 | in

01:16:15.800 | Institutions what we read what we say and I think people are now assuming they're being manipulated

01:16:22.440 | Assuming something might be fake news or doctored and I think it's like people are building up a much higher

01:16:28.960 | resiliency to bullshit lies manipulation and if I were to ask a hundred people

01:16:34.240 | What is the bias of CNN New York Times Fox MSNBC NPR?

01:16:41.240 | 90 out of 100 Americans could describe it almost exactly people are not dumb. This is another fallacy

01:16:47.800 | I think we have in this country is that people are dumb and they're gonna get suckered

01:16:50.520 | People are kind of figuring it out and we've seen deep fakes for what five years ten years now and they're like, yeah

01:16:56.800 | You know Luke Skywalker didn't look really good in The Mandalorian, but there's a kid who redid it and now Dolly too is doing it

01:17:02.520 | I think we're kind of inoculating ourself to what do you think free bird?

01:17:08.040 | Deep fakes and truth when the Gutenberg press was invented a bunch of fake shit was

01:17:13.440 | Printed and people believed it. I don't think

01:17:17.000 | the current iteration with deep deep fakes is very different from any form of

01:17:24.200 | Mass media being used to tell people on truth. I'm just called a crusades. What's that?

01:17:29.160 | Oh the Crusades. Yeah. No, I mean but look I mean

01:17:33.480 | You're a hundred percent, right? I don't want to speak about religion negatively in that way. It is one of many

01:17:37.920 | institutions of power that leveraged mass media

01:17:41.400 | historically

01:17:43.880 | To get people to believe things to do things and to ultimately be able to tax people and get them to provide capital and labor

01:17:50.560 | in the interest of those who are in power and

01:17:53.320 | the the system of deep faking is one of a

01:17:58.040 | long string of using the current toolkit

01:18:02.280 | To take mass media and and follow that same track

01:18:05.320 | So it will be dealt with in the same way that things have been dealt with that have been fake news in the past

01:18:11.840 | Which is that there will be an opposing voice and there will be counter arguments and there will be debates and it will be

01:18:17.480 | rancorous and it will be noisy and it will be hard to discern and

01:18:20.760 | Alternatives will emerge and tools that identify deep fakes will emerge and it will be the same ongoing battle and seeking of the truth

01:18:27.440 | That humanity has tried to do

01:18:31.480 | Since the dawn of mass media, you know

01:18:33.480 | Yesterday's conspiracy theories are like tomorrow's Pulitzer prizes

01:18:37.440 | I always say like if you look at

01:18:38.920 | Shania O'Connor ripping up the Pope's picture on Saturday Night Live right in protest and saying like the this is the true enemy

01:18:44.800 | They're molesting children and then the Boston Globe and the movie spotlight is about them a decades later

01:18:51.960 | Winning a Pulitzer for uncovering what anybody who's in the room?

01:18:56.800 | Who's Catholic in the 70s and 80s knew or had heard was going on and so, you know

01:19:02.120 | Maybe the time frame is shortening between when we're being lied to and when we figure it out

01:19:06.360 | I actually think it's interesting and good because it forces us to find ways to find the truth more effectively and

01:19:11.840 | You know it kind of without the antagonism. I think it's you know, it's it's absent. What is the truth?

01:19:19.680 | You don't you don't force that debate. You don't force that question and this will

01:19:23.920 | Start to reveal ways that we can kind of find things that are actual evidentiary things versus things that someone told me with either

01:19:31.880 | Historically anecdote or innuendo or I'm a person in power where I'm an authority or I'm an expert and nowadays

01:19:37.520 | It's like I'm a piece of media. You should believe me or here

01:19:40.640 | I'm an image of a person and that's not gonna be the case anymore. Hi, I'm Jeff

01:19:43.840 | full-time corporate VC and part-time angel my questions about AI and higher education

01:19:49.960 | And it's actually some covert parenting advice so you can decide who's that's relevant for

01:19:54.720 | My son just finished his freshman year of college and I'm questioning

01:19:59.280 | What the future is for him in higher education given all the change that AI is going to

01:20:04.640 | Gonna have on on every career in every profession

01:20:09.000 | And I'm wondering what advice you'd give to to your child or or someone who's in college right now for what?

01:20:15.560 | what's an area of study that won't maybe won't be disrupted by by AI or or an area that

01:20:22.560 | AI you'll get leverage from your education

01:20:26.140 | Through AI. I think the reality is that most of the existing jobs that we have in the United States

01:20:32.680 | Are going to go to lower cost locations that have that tool chain to accelerate their capability

01:20:44.680 | So

01:20:46.000 | we're gonna have to reinvent the workforce and

01:20:48.800 | The things that we do

01:20:51.920 | Over the next 30 or 40 years to stay relevant

01:20:54.440 | That's probably like I think that should just be the operating principle

01:20:59.160 | If you think about it, we used to run great call centers

01:21:02.920 | Okay, those call centers were outsourced to the Philippines in India, but in the next, you know, five or ten years

01:21:08.760 | You'll have this flawless

01:21:11.440 | unaccented English or even more

01:21:14.040 | eerily

01:21:15.000 | perfectly accented English

01:21:16.720 | For the zip code of the person that's calling in so that it sounds like they're talking to somebody that's literally their neighbor

01:21:21.920 | That's like just makes so much sense, right?

01:21:24.840 | So it's like all this stuff is gonna happen where like all these classes of jobs are gonna go away

01:21:28.920 | I saw this article where a lawyer two lawyers use chat GPT to submit a legal brief

01:21:35.280 | The problem was that it cited cases that didn't exist and now they're gonna be disbarred

01:21:41.600 | So this is like serious business right like you can't do that. Like that's like real legal

01:21:46.600 | Malfeasance, so what are your kids not practice in college?

01:21:51.880 | You know if I had to choose something for my kids I would probably I

01:21:57.160 | Would probably tell them to do something

01:22:00.040 | mathematical or biological

01:22:03.200 | The reason I would point them to math is that I think that it's irrefutable. There's this great clip between

01:22:09.720 | Ricky Gervais and Stephen Colbert. You guys should go and Google this but it's a clip where he's on the Colbert show and

01:22:15.920 | Colbert is a deeply devout Catholic and he's offended by the fact that Ricky Gervais doesn't believe in God and

01:22:22.840 | He asked him why don't you believe in God and Ricky Gervais says look if we wiped out all the books in the world

01:22:28.560 | In a thousand years everything that's scientific and mathematical would be reestablished

01:22:34.000 | But everything that is religious or theoretically not, you know mythical if you want to say

01:22:40.040 | Would look very very different

01:22:42.440 | And that's why I don't believe in God

01:22:45.480 | I'm not trying to question that but it's a way of answering this question

01:22:49.080 | Which is I would try to point my children to the body of knowledge

01:22:52.240 | That's largely irrefutable

01:22:55.120 | Which is biological and mathematical versus belief oriented because I think these tools will change one's beliefs

01:23:01.000 | I've been thinking about this a lot too. I think teaching them to be entrepreneurial

01:23:05.400 | Resilient worldly ability to communicate ability to lead other people in teams. That stuff's not going to go away

01:23:12.560 | communication skill, etc, and

01:23:15.240 | I'm encouraging everybody who I work with to just use chat GPT for and

01:23:20.420 | Barred every day for every single thing that they do my base thesis right now. Is that

01:23:26.960 | the job

01:23:30.600 | Freezes the hiring freezes that all these companies is indefinite

01:23:33.760 | I'm assuming it's indefinite because the amount of work it takes to write a job requisition is

01:23:38.200 | more work in some cases than actually automating with

01:23:43.200 | AI or ready the job function and so I think 20 person companies might you know

01:23:49.480 | Double in size in the next two or three years

01:23:51.860 | But still have 20 people

01:23:53.960 | It's gonna be a big challenge for the for society and if it if that does come to pass

01:23:59.440 | There's just gonna be large swaths of people who are not going to be able to get job interviews for anything other than service jobs

01:24:05.000 | And you know, we need a lot more plumbers electricians waiters

01:24:09.160 | Etc. Those probably jobs won't go away. Especially if we don't let people immigrate. So I

01:24:13.720 | am super enthusiastic about that efficiency

01:24:17.120 | But I think it also means you have to be entrepreneurial because if you can't get a job and you can't get mentored

01:24:22.240 | You better create your own opportunity. You better create your own company and

01:24:25.880 | That's what I'm seeing. That's the game on the field right now two or three people who don't have job offers from uber and Airbnb

01:24:31.280 | And Google and Facebook just saying fuck it

01:24:33.160 | Let's start a company because there's nothing else for us to do and those are highly skilled people right now doing that

01:24:38.960 | I'll say two quick things about this topic. So

01:24:41.120 | One is I think there's a lot of AI fear porn out there right now, and I just think that like all these

01:24:47.120 | Doomer scenarios are they're not gonna play out overnight. I mean, this is gonna take a while

01:24:54.720 | Second

01:24:56.280 | If you think about like job elimination, it's gonna be some super specialized jobs. So for example, I

01:25:03.280 | Wouldn't want to be a radiologist right now, but doctors will be fine

01:25:07.520 | So I think if you're thinking about like going into a job category, that's super

01:25:13.520 | specialized and clearly in the way of AI then that probably is not a good idea, but

01:25:21.560 | Most general skills like you're talking about and most job categories are gonna be fine. There's just gonna be some

01:25:28.880 | specialties within them that may get

01:25:31.600 | Dislocated like I wouldn't want to be a truck driver either, you know because of self-driving

01:25:36.640 | But transportation companies are still gonna exist. So I think you just want to be careful about super specialization

01:25:44.280 | I think but building general skills is always really good. That really should be the point of college

01:25:48.400 | Where would you put lawyers and accountants on that? I'm curious. They're sufficiently general that I don't think they're gonna be eliminated

01:25:55.280 | But will they be able to do five times the amount of work therefore we won't need as many

01:25:58.800 | They may be able to get more done. Yeah, I would expect them to get more done

01:26:02.760 | Yeah, but I don't think necessarily think that means we'll need less of them

01:26:06.880 | I mean the old story about lawyers is that there was one lawyer in a town had no business

01:26:12.440 | Second lawyer came to town and they were both more busy than they knew what to do with

01:26:17.600 | So, you know

01:26:19.600 | Lawyers get 30% more productive. They file 30% more lawsuits and you know, we're good. Yeah, let's take another question

01:26:26.240 | These are great questions so far. Hey guys, Rick Spencer. I hope Chamath gets to choose the wine this evening for dinner

01:26:31.320 | I did not get to choose your wine. So I apologize in advance

01:26:33.760 | What kind of water would you get? This is the list of 2018 Chateau Conlefon, Brazil

01:26:40.120 | Oh, that's I love the bestie. Okay question

01:26:43.200 | So you've talked recently in episodes about the speed of AI the adoption and how the winners are still unknown

01:26:49.200 | That was reinforced in the sessions today a room full of investors

01:26:52.720 | How are you thinking differently about your investment, you know your strategic investment decisions and your strategy?

01:26:58.020 | Are there opportunities to look at venture investing differently like venture studios, you know in the future of AI?

01:27:04.400 | I had this conversation earlier today. I think I started a company in 2006

01:27:08.440 | Where we took large data sets

01:27:11.760 | and

01:27:13.000 | We built predictive models from those data sets and we use those predictive models to make analytical tools available

01:27:18.280 | to a specific vertical in our case agriculture farmers and

01:27:21.680 | the models were both

01:27:24.480 | Deterministic meaning there was kind of

01:27:27.080 | definitions algorithmic definitions of physical parameters and there was like all the statistical inference that you get from large data sets and

01:27:33.560 | It made recommendations for farmers

01:27:37.760 | What a lot of people are calling AI today is fundamentally a predictive model on text on language

01:27:45.680 | I am making a language predictor that gives you a sentence

01:27:50.120 | and it seems so profound because it is how we all interact with computers and interact with one another and

01:27:55.840 | As a result it is kind of viewed as this sea change across all of these industries instantaneously

01:28:02.440 | It's this whole new era

01:28:03.840 | But the fact is that

01:28:05.840 | Generally speaking the digitization of things and the amount of data that's being generated on earth is going up by some order of magnitude

01:28:12.360 | every number of months and

01:28:14.880 | Our ability to make predictions and build predictive models that are useful to specific vertical segments is improving every sequential cycle

01:28:22.560 | That this is happening across every vertical and it is continued and it hasn't changed and it's not any different

01:28:29.480 | So there's in this area of genomics and bioinformatics

01:28:33.240 | There is an absolute sea change happening in human health in synthetic biology

01:28:37.120 | And our ability to understand and predict the biological world and make changes and create new drugs

01:28:42.800 | Create new systems for producing molecules for producing things that humans consume and it is all buoyed by

01:28:49.400 | machine learning applied to large data sets and genomics and other metadata associated with human health and

01:28:55.040 | Biology and we're seeing the same thing in other areas whether it's chemistry material science

01:29:01.960 | Industrial application consumer markets and so on the era of what people are now calling AI is an interface layer of language

01:29:09.840 | That's really creating

01:29:11.040 | transformational opportunities on how these tools how these systems how these models can be utilized and provided to all these different verticals and allows us to

01:29:18.200 | rethink business models to rethink interaction models and

01:29:21.680 | To really change the economics of different businesses and the utility and the productivity of humans because it is about speech

01:29:28.640 | It is about communication is about what we fundamentally do as a species. So I would argue that the general

01:29:35.400 | Trajectory of machine learning the general trajectory of data generation our ability to make predictions generate value across all these different markets is

01:29:44.080 | Continuing in the way that it has been continuing for the last 20 years and it is profound in its own, right?

01:29:50.480 | and I wouldn't say that there's a massive sea change in that evolution because of

01:29:55.800 | Large language models large language models create another set of opportunities

01:30:00.040 | So I would kind of create a distinction and make sure that the categorization of the investment

01:30:04.080 | Opportunities in large language models be assessed on its own and everyone's all over the place as you guys probably heard today

01:30:09.440 | Foundational models are getting disrupted every other week. They're being decreased in size parameters are being reduced. They're being commoditized

01:30:16.440 | You can run these things on m2 chips. Everything is up in the air right now, and it's friggin nuts

01:30:21.080 | You're gonna invest in a company at a 500 million dollar valuation and six weeks later

01:30:24.480 | It's gonna be worth zero because someone open source the exact same thing that you can now do for 100k

01:30:28.920 | So that's very difficult and very different then but there are still like these

01:30:33.720 | Incredible points of inflection happening across all these other industries with respect to machine learning and that's where I spend my time

01:30:40.480 | Chamathi want to add what you're looking at. I think this is gonna be the big question. Yeah six or seven years ago

01:30:45.440 | There was a Google earnings release where they talked about building their own silicon. I've told this story before but I

01:30:53.560 | Ping those guys and I was basically like I just want to meet the team that built the TPU

01:30:57.720 | long story short a year later, I put them in business and

01:31:01.240 | You know, we've been building silicon for this moment for years. It's been really really hard

01:31:07.440 | And the reason it's been really really hard is that Nvidia is just really really good

01:31:14.040 | CUDA is very very complete

01:31:17.400 | And it's just very difficult to justify why one would build

01:31:23.920 | Once you have something that you think is profound

01:31:26.240 | Through you know implement multiple SDKs to like multiple points of silicon just doesn't make any sense

01:31:31.760 | That being said I still think you need to be at the absolute bottom of the stack and the absolute top of the stack

01:31:38.200 | I think I'm a little too biased for saying the former

01:31:41.400 | Which is I'm hoping that there's vendor diversity in silicon diversity

01:31:46.600 | Because I think it's going to be really important

01:31:49.160 | I don't think we want to have a world where Nvidia runs away with it. So I think there's

01:31:52.840 | Investment opportunity there just because I think everybody should want that to happen

01:31:56.680 | And then at the absolute top

01:31:59.640 | Freeberg's right that

01:32:02.440 | All these

01:32:03.960 | Foundational models I think are changing so rapidly that the thing that you want to figure out is like

01:32:08.200 | What are you seeding it with to drive learning that's unique and that's a data problem

01:32:13.000 | So there's an example that I've given this was a an example given to me

01:32:18.440 | By Nick Cash Aurora, so it's not I'm not going to take credit for it

01:32:21.960 | He's the CEO of Palo Alto Networks, but he was telling me

01:32:24.280 | You know when you look at

01:32:26.840 | travel

01:32:28.840 | The travel space all the public travel companies are like

01:32:31.640 | 300 billion dollars of public market cap Expedia Travelocity all these companies

01:32:36.600 | but they're pure middlemen

01:32:39.400 | And they sit on top of the data feed that comes from a handful of companies one of them is Sabre

01:32:47.000 | And so I went in I looked at Sabre Sabre is like a 1.3 billion dollar company a small little company

01:32:53.000 | But they are the ones that go into all the airlines extract all this gobbledygook data

01:32:58.840 | normalize it and allow

01:33:01.240 | Expedia Travelocity booking.com to exist

01:33:03.800 | in a world of machine learning where

01:33:07.080 | An ai where theoretically you can have conversational languages in inside of whatsapp or messenger or instagram

01:33:13.080 | You see this beautiful picture. You're like book me a ticket to that place

01:33:17.240 | well

01:33:18.840 | Sabre is actually the key

01:33:20.840 | Value creator there

01:33:24.360 | And all these Expedia examples that are plugins at gbt make no sense. They make no economic sense. Those companies should go to zero

01:33:31.320 | so

01:33:33.320 | I've used that as a way a forcing function for me to try to prove that there's really these two barbells

01:33:39.160 | It's a barbell bookends one is a silicon and one of these sort of like data providers

01:33:43.880 | That's probably an investable thing. That's defensible

01:33:46.860 | Everything in the middle. I think what what freebrook said is true, which is today

01:33:51.400 | It looks like it's worth a couple billion dollars tomorrow's worth nothing

01:33:54.200 | And so I think you have to be very careful if you listen to

01:33:57.320 | There's an interview that steven wolfram did with lex friedman if you guys listened to it

01:34:01.880 | A few weeks ago. I had him on my pod a couple weeks ago, but haven't heard the free. Yeah, he's incredible

01:34:06.680 | Yeah, he's incredible

01:34:07.560 | If you listen to that interview, I think wolfram does a great job of describing the difference between inferential models or statistical models

01:34:14.360 | and computational models

01:34:16.360 | Statistical models are where you take large data sets and you build

01:34:20.440 | statistical models that infer

01:34:23.380 | And predict things in the future or predict things that you ask it to predict

01:34:27.320 | From the data set that it's trained on and then it creates a statistical representation

01:34:31.640 | It has a probability of being right or wrong and every prediction it makes and it creates a distribution of outputs from the model

01:34:37.000 | And you can train a model from nothing today

01:34:41.240 | Using a bunch of tools that are open source and generally available and a bunch of great silicon and all this amazing stuff

01:34:46.280 | That's that's that's now out in the world

01:34:48.280 | But there's a bunch of things that you can't

01:34:50.680 | Generate data and you can't necessarily train models on and that requires computational models models where you actually have to build some

01:34:58.600 | System

01:35:01.240 | That creates a deterministic outcome and deterministic means that it doesn't have a distribution of things that could happen

01:35:06.040 | It has one thing and it calculates it like two plus four is six

01:35:10.760 | There isn't a probability distribution on it being six two plus four is computable. It is calculable. It is six

01:35:16.840 | the great unlock

01:35:20.200 | That I think is ahead of us still generally speaking with respect to large language models is the connection back

01:35:27.000 | To computational models is the connection back to structured data where you can make requests and integrate structured data into the output

01:35:34.920 | combined with inferential output

01:35:36.920 | And computational models where you can take the inference you can take the request and figure out what computational models

01:35:44.120 | Can I now run in addition to making a prediction about an output?

01:35:47.480 | And that's where so much of the value is going to lie and it's going to require incredible software engineering talent

01:35:54.040 | Applied math statistics all the stuff that's made data science generally speaking

01:35:59.320 | So successful over the last two decades is going to continue and it's going to be this integration between

01:36:04.520 | computation

01:36:06.440 | And inference, um, and it's going to be applied in lots of different markets and it's going to be really powerful

01:36:10.680 | And we're all going to have our minds blown

01:36:12.840 | Just in terms of like the seed stage or super early pre-seed stage

01:36:16.840 | Two or three people who are obsessed with this technology who are playing with it every day

01:36:21.560 | Who are keeping up to speed on it?

01:36:24.040 | And who understand some customer base whether it's delighting themselves or delighting some other customer base

01:36:28.920 | I'm willing to take that small bet on that 100k to 250k bet

01:36:32.440 | Because in the previous paradigm shifts or platform shifts cloud computing apps and before that desktop computing

01:36:41.080 | and the web

01:36:43.160 | You saw people start tinkering with stuff and whatever their first two ideas were are long forgotten

01:36:48.620 | Because they figured something else out and I kind of feel like that's the stage we're in

01:36:52.840 | There were a lot of people who were playing with iPhones in the app store

01:36:56.360 | and you know, they made a calculator or a flashlight that got built into the operating system as um,

01:37:01.800 | I think freeberg is specifically pointing out like you could just be part of the model and your whole business is wiped out

01:37:07.000 | We have one company that's trying to make itineraries for travel

01:37:10.120 | And I looked at what they're building and then you know, they're figuring out prompts. They're figuring out the interface

01:37:16.600 | They're figuring out what people want

01:37:18.680 | And I did the same searches on chat gbd4 and I was like, it's not that much better what you're doing

01:37:24.280 | But it's better and your ideas are better. And so I think that they'll win the race and they only have to please

01:37:29.160 | You know, whatever number of users

01:37:31.560 | And this company could wind up being like I said before a 20 person company that does 50 million in revenue

01:37:36.600 | And I think that's going to be a very interesting future and it reminds me of the app economy

01:37:41.560 | There were a small number of acts things like distro kid

01:37:44.680 | or instagram

01:37:46.920 | Where small teams built things that printed money and had incredibly high margins

01:37:51.240 | So I think that's part of the opportunity here. I do agree with chamath's point data is the new oil

01:37:56.040 | Whatever data set you have that you have that's unique is incredibly powerful in terms of defensibility

01:38:01.660 | And could help you to outpace one of the generic models

01:38:05.320 | This dude's been waiting, okay, dude, he's been waiting. All right lightning round. Thanks david for the mic

01:38:12.600 | My name is raed must you transform vc in san francisco my questions for you chamath

01:38:17.000 | um in the last finally jesus christ

01:38:19.880 | something else

01:38:21.880 | What the fuck these guys

01:38:23.960 | So on the last one or two episodes I can't recall you um

01:38:28.680 | You brought up this whole idea is how do we get non-us-born?

01:38:32.060 | American patriots to run for president

01:38:35.560 | so, uh as the

01:38:38.280 | growth hacking drunken master

01:38:40.840 | Um, what do you recommend? How do we propel this idea? How do we have it pick up steam?

01:38:46.040 | And not have to wait 25 years or whatever, you know, it can't happen in the next few years

01:38:51.400 | I think I do think there's a small probability could happen in

01:38:53.960 | 25 to 30 years, but

01:38:56.600 | Like the problem is that

01:38:59.640 | The people that

01:39:02.520 | Only j cal can be president on the stage. Yeah, the three of us are fucked up

01:39:06.440 | This is but i'll put you guys in my cabinet. You've all got positions. I think the how is that you have

01:39:13.480 | Enough bottoms up citizen journalism

01:39:16.060 | and opinion formation

01:39:19.160 | That people can independently decide that on the margin. This is a good idea

01:39:24.600 | Like look, I i'm not interested in running for government

01:39:28.120 | But if david were in charge of something very important treasury or state I would have

01:39:33.400 | Immense confidence if freeberg were in charge of something I would have immense confidence. So the idea that guys like this

01:39:41.000 | (laughter)

01:39:43.000 | The idea that guys like this and and oh because i'm born here so you don't have to say that

01:39:48.600 | Don't worry, you'll get the department of sanitation work. I'm definitely gonna win. No, so for sure. I'm gonna win

01:39:53.800 | postmaster general

01:39:56.520 | I do think it's a little it's a little crazy that

01:40:00.280 | Guys like these two get disqualified just because they emigrated when they were like four and six

01:40:06.920 | That's insane

01:40:10.120 | So I I think that if we're in the business of actually deciding that you want the best people for this country

01:40:15.240 | on the court

01:40:17.240 | So that we keep winning championships

01:40:19.240 | You don't tell janice. Oh, you know, you were born in greece. So ciao. Ciao, you don't get to play that's crazy

01:40:26.280 | Put them on the court

01:40:29.240 | And let them win so I do think it takes 25 or 30 years though

01:40:32.600 | of us saying this because it has to be a groundswell of people that say

01:40:36.840 | I just want to win because i'm seeing all these other countries starting to win more

01:40:40.280 | And I don't think I want that for my children. I think I did. I do think it takes a generation

01:40:44.200 | I don't think it happens today

01:40:45.800 | All right, guys in a couple of hours. It will be

01:40:48.760 | The sultan of science's birthday and alan keating's and alan keating's

01:40:54.120 | And yeah, that's right

01:40:56.680 | So I thought it would only be fitting

01:40:59.480 | if

01:41:01.320 | a hundred

01:41:02.440 | All in super fans took a moment. I'm gonna sing in italian and sung

01:41:07.240 | Happy birthday to dave freeberg three

01:41:11.320 | two

01:41:13.480 | one

01:41:15.480 | Happy birthday dear free bird

01:41:28.140 | Happy birthday to you

01:41:32.140 | and many more

01:41:35.260 | All right, sultan of science

01:41:37.420 | I know your wish was to be a top 10 podcaster. It's come true. Finally. I'm like I gotta go into podcasting. Yes

01:41:45.260 | Thank you ashley

01:41:52.620 | Will let your winners ride rain man david sax

01:41:56.720 | We open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it

01:42:03.520 | Besties are gone

01:42:15.660 | My dog taking a notice in your driveway

01:42:17.660 | We should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy because they're all just useless

01:42:26.780 | It's like this like sexual tension, but they just need to release them out

01:42:29.900 | What you're about to be

01:42:34.140 | Pure feet

01:42:36.460 | We need to get mercies

01:42:38.460 | I'm going all in

01:42:47.820 | you

E132: SEC goes after crypto giants, Sequoia splits, LIV/PGA, Messi's deal + LIVE Q&A!

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