E56: Constitution DAO, Rittenhouse trial coverage, private sector efficiency vs the government

00:00:00.000 | it was very interesting going to sax's kids birthday party um freeberg and i were there

00:00:05.680 | for about two or three hours sac showed up for the last half hour i think i was there for it i

00:00:11.440 | think i was there for two hours and didn't see sax and then i saw him on my way out the door

00:00:14.560 | but he had some youtubers there who were pretty cool yeah papa jake and logan thank you papa

00:00:18.560 | jake was great yeah you know they have seven million followers on youtube eat your heart out

00:00:23.520 | jay cal how many times bigger is papa jake than you business and podcasting on youtube

00:00:29.760 | is a new concept uh long form and long form is not what the algorithm is designed for it's

00:00:36.560 | obviously designed for short form and people getting to completion so getting to completion

00:00:40.160 | on a 90 minute video are we talking about love making again sorry oh god jesus when i say

00:00:46.160 | completion i it's not there's we need an hr department at all yeah i prefer the short form

00:00:51.840 | format for that too these are called open folks

00:00:59.520 | winners

00:01:01.920 | hey everybody welcome to another episode of the all in podcast it's episode 56. we've made it past

00:01:20.800 | 55 the show the band is still together coming to you every friday night far too late because the

00:01:27.200 | rain man obsesses over every edit in the podcast with us again the all-in scorsese himself david

00:01:34.560 | rain man sax and the queen of quinoa the sultan of science david friedberg is here and with a power

00:01:44.960 | sweater that cost no turtle neck turtle neck i'm sorry a power turtleneck that cost more than your

00:01:52.880 | mortgage payment this month the dictator himself chamath palihapitiya

00:01:57.600 | i'm jay cal it was a pretty incredible week i think we have to pander to the cryptocurrency

00:02:03.280 | crowd because that's just making ratings go through the roof here i am absolutely inspired

00:02:07.520 | by what we saw this week with the constitution dow forming in about a week and going from

00:02:14.160 | one or two million to 46 million dollars raised through a dow if you don't know

00:02:19.600 | what these decentralized autonomous organizations are it's basically analogous to

00:02:27.040 | a corporate structure but that's written in code so you can get a group of people together

00:02:31.920 | typically in a discord then you create a smart contract they collect in a wallet a bunch of eth

00:02:38.400 | or it's typically eth right now and then you get some kind of governance written into the dow

00:02:44.320 | where people get voting power they brought this together to bid on one of 13 copies of

00:02:50.880 | the original constitution of the united states and it was a very controversial moment last night

00:02:56.880 | when 80 of the money was raised in the last 48 hours and there was this crazy auction going back

00:03:03.600 | and forth with two representatives of sotheby's on the phone it hit 41 million dollars everybody

00:03:11.280 | thought that the dow had won which would have mean would have meant that almost 20 000 people

00:03:17.040 | who participated in this would then vote on what to do with this 41 million dollars in the last 48

00:03:17.520 | hours and there was this crazy auction going back and forth with two representatives of sotheby's on

00:03:17.680 | the phone it hit 41 million dollars everybody thought that the dow had won which would have mean

00:03:17.680 | would have meant that almost 20 000 people who participated in this would then vote on what to do

00:03:19.600 | with this 41 million dollars which would have meant that almost 20 000 people who participated in this would then vote on what to do with this 41 million dollars

00:03:19.600 | with this 41 million dollars

00:03:21.440 | offer coindesk incorrectly uh reported that the dow won

00:03:26.800 | and then the dow announced that they had in fact not

00:03:30.480 | some other statistics uh their twitter has 36 000 followers

00:03:35.440 | the group reported they needed 14 million to participate 30 million to be

00:03:38.640 | competitive and 40 million to have a great chance of winning they raised like

00:03:42.320 | i think six or seven million while they were on the air you know and the auction

00:03:46.480 | had started and the only uh downside to all of this is that there were huge gas fees uh people

00:03:53.280 | were spending 30 40 50 bucks to donate 200 which was the average size of these yeah they should

00:04:00.640 | have done it on solana all right so here we go talking our own book again now we got somebody's

00:04:05.600 | going to clip this out in the salon there's a lot of pumping here we go what are you going to do with

00:04:10.800 | your copy of the constitution you know what's so funny when are you going to auction it back to the

00:04:15.600 | down when are you going to burn it and make an nft out of it so it's it's funny uh i did buy

00:04:20.880 | something at these auctions uh yesterday's quite unique uh i will i will not comment on what it was

00:04:27.840 | but was it that turtleneck no but uh thanks oh oh oh no no no no no no no no but uh i i did so but

00:04:38.320 | i i watched these auctions closely i guess is what i'm trying to say and i was surprised that the u.s

00:04:43.120 | constitution for sold so little you know the u.s constitution was so little that it was so little

00:04:44.720 | you know for a basically like the magna carta of the best startup that's ever been created well but

00:04:51.600 | there's 13 of them right so on a market cap basis on a market cap basis you got multiplied by 13.

00:04:57.280 | yeah great 13 times 40. it wasn't one of the originals it was the printing after the original

00:05:01.680 | was signed we have a 20 we've created a 22 trillion dollar a year startup that keeps

00:05:06.320 | compounding by four to five percent a year i would have thought these things would be worth

00:05:09.440 | you know a couple hundred million each well there's a lot of there's a lot of u.s memorabilia

00:05:13.840 | but yeah i mean but what i don't understand it means the u.s constitution david is not as it's

00:05:19.280 | not worth as much as it used to be that's well you know you got other you got you got the original

00:05:23.600 | it would sell yeah there's a lot of documents you got the declaration of independence you got

00:05:27.680 | you know the gettysburg address there's time a dozen the tea party memo i actually think

00:05:33.040 | citizens united technically guys the citizens united if it was written not one time in one

00:05:39.680 | document uh by the supreme court that would be worth much more than 40 million because the citizens

00:05:41.840 | united technically guys the citizens united technically guys the citizens united technically

00:05:43.840 | that would be worth much more than 40 million because it's basically invalidated most of the

00:05:45.520 | constitution well here's one of the interesting things that happened here no david wait david

00:05:50.080 | acknowledge that what i just said is true i don't even understand what you just said but i just said

00:05:55.120 | if you had printed the citizens united verdict from the supreme court on a piece of paper that

00:05:59.120 | would be worth more than 40 million dollars it was it was like democracy 2.0 is what you're saying

00:06:03.840 | i don't understand why people are getting so swept up in this thing it's kind of my

00:06:06.720 | name either me neither that's the whole thing what you guys are missing is this is a a critical

00:06:11.840 | moment in the history of cryptocurrencies because the first three major use cases of

00:06:15.440 | cryptocurrency were kind of you had money transfer which is not as good as paypal or venmo or many

00:06:22.720 | other solutions no jason i think you had store of value hold on let me finish store of value which

00:06:27.360 | is like who cares it's plain waste of store value and then nfts got interesting but these dows are

00:06:32.640 | absolutely game-changing the ability to have 47 million dollars show up and be prepared to be

00:06:40.320 | deployed in 48 hours and then you have to be able to get it to the next level and you have to be

00:06:41.820 | able to get it to the next level and you have to be prepared to be deployed in 48 hours

00:06:42.320 | that's not what he's saying you ever hear of an ico you ever hear of it were illegal and they've

00:06:46.440 | been banned and people are being how is that any different i mean because dows have governance dows

00:06:51.720 | have governance and it's a programmable government it's a programmable corporate entity it is huge

00:06:57.760 | if these things transfer ownership interests they will be regulated like securities of course

00:07:02.000 | that is a very important point and in this particular model the idea was it would all be

00:07:06.840 | kind of part of a non-profit and it would not be kind of there were donations in fact yes there were

00:07:11.040 | donations

00:07:11.800 | and so as soon as these dows which they should and it's an incredibly powerful tool if it does

00:07:15.620 | actually become a security instrument then it changes everything and it is going to be that

00:07:21.020 | my my whole thing is like it's one thing outside the us first right and then it'll be crypto x us

00:07:27.140 | crypto investments that are going to drive this and that's why the us is going to be left behind

00:07:30.660 | here's what you're missing these dows are pushing the envelope in the same way airbnb and uber did

00:07:36.580 | in terms of you know bending the rules about ride sharing or renting your extra room these dows

00:07:41.780 | are kind of breaking securities laws they were telling people were buying the constitution people

00:07:46.560 | who donated thought they were buying part of it we're not we're not missing the point so okay but

00:07:52.080 | here's the thing if they bend the rules like this what they showed to the sec is that there is a huge

00:07:58.400 | appetite for people to quickly form groups of capital at low dollar amounts to do something

00:08:04.320 | important or interesting in the world and americans now have a taste of that they're going

00:08:08.400 | to continue to have a taste of it and i think it's going to disagree it's going to force the beginning

00:08:11.760 | of the accreditation laws to change i disagree i think that what it showed is that this is yet

00:08:16.540 | another explanation of fractionalized ownership that demand existed well before dows totally it's

00:08:24.460 | it exists today it'll exist tomorrow a dow was just yet another on-ramp but much like most

00:08:30.340 | fractional ownerships are terrible financial trades for crappy assets so was this so said

00:08:37.340 | differently if you're going to spend the time to open a robin hood or e-trading

00:08:41.740 | account it still matters whether you buy a share of lycos or a share of google right okay and so

00:08:48.400 | whether you do a dow or whether you have an llc to me it's irrelevant the underlying asset didn't

00:08:55.080 | make any sense had zero chance in my opinion of any meaningful appreciation and so if you really

00:09:00.640 | want to make something work and if you want to prove the dow then i would have hoped that they

00:09:06.160 | would have actually asked a few smart people hey guys people who buy art people who know crypto what

00:09:11.240 | are some assets that you can buy and what are some assets that you can buy and what are some

00:09:11.720 | assets that i should own because if this thing does appreciate i wonder you'll do more to prove

00:09:15.820 | the questions that you just beat them out on the so obviously the value is greater than what the

00:09:19.780 | dow thought it was jason you're the reason why an accredited investor this is non-accredited

00:09:25.020 | investors who are doing this i know and that that unsophistication was clear the stupidest thing you

00:09:29.740 | can do if you enter an auction okay is to declare how you're going to be an underbidder so like it's

00:09:35.980 | basically saying hey guys you know here's my top tick and i'm willing to be and i can and so now you

00:09:41.700 | force these guys to be the underbidder at a dollar over there okay that's fine that's a mechanical

00:09:46.080 | issue sax what do you do well i wonder where do you stand on this i i wonder if the reason why

00:09:51.680 | they chose this particular type of asset is because it's collectible and therefore it's

00:09:56.600 | explicitly excluded from the securities laws so basically you know that maybe maybe they're

00:10:00.880 | limited in terms of what they can go after because they don't want to be a security but until but but

00:10:06.440 | if that's the case then it does limit i think the applicability of dow's right because we

00:10:11.680 | want to be a security because what you want is is to create corporations that are programmable that

00:10:16.780 | you can have shareholder votes through the tokens yeah things like that and you know basically a

00:10:21.920 | digital version of what they do analog in the real world with you know share certificates shareholder

00:10:26.740 | meetings and stuff like that that nobody ever attends yeah that nobody nobody ever attends these

00:10:30.440 | shoulder meetings and you know i get these notices of votes that are to be held nobody ever feels

00:10:36.000 | yeah no one fills that stuff out and people have super share super voting and so you feel like you

00:10:41.660 | do have a say and they're going to do assets like imagine somebody had 10 000 acres of rain forest or

00:10:48.840 | a national potential national park and all of a sudden you pop up a dow and if the sec says you

00:10:54.360 | know what 500 or less you can bet your money however you want hold on let me finish and they

00:10:59.520 | take that 500 and you get a million people to put 500 in which is completely conceivable somebody

00:11:05.800 | could buy 500 million dollars worth of national forest and say i'm going to make this into a

00:11:10.600 | public trust and i'm going to make this into a public trust and i'm going to make this into a

00:11:11.640 | to protect the environment this is on the brink of changing the world ico's yes but icos had no

00:11:18.360 | governance they had no governance that was missing it was for the benefit hold on icos were for the

00:11:23.400 | benefit of the scumbags who did those griffs and ran away with the money this is an organization

00:11:29.000 | with a predetermined governance structure this is like creating a new country or a new format

00:11:34.680 | for an llc that's what you're missing okay are you done yes what you're missing you're

00:11:40.920 | painting the optimistic scenario of what these things could do and you are correct but what's

00:11:46.200 | always happened in the history of humanity is these scenarios have resolved to people figuring

00:11:52.680 | out ways to scam other people to make money sure sure and while this one looks altruistic

00:11:57.480 | let me finish without interrupting thank you but just like you know this looks like a great

00:12:04.040 | altruistic action we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution the next deal will end up being

00:12:10.200 | some shitty art piece that's worth 100 grand as chamath points out they'll buy it for 10 million

00:12:14.440 | everyone will lose their ass and the next 500 will look the same and that's why we have securities

00:12:18.680 | regulators and security laws because in the past when these sorts of structures that weren't

00:12:22.920 | digitally governed and all this sort of stuff and people would go around and they would put

00:12:26.440 | together pools of money from other people and promise them the world and then they would turn

00:12:29.880 | around and steal their money and walk away we created securities regulators that could oversee

00:12:34.920 | and not have independent governance but have distributed governance across a regulatory system

00:12:39.480 | and that's what we're doing now we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution and we're going

00:12:42.520 | to go out and buy the uss constitution and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution and

00:12:45.400 | we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution

00:12:47.960 | and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution

00:12:50.200 | and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution

00:12:52.760 | and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution

00:12:55.160 | and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution

00:12:58.040 | and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution

00:13:01.720 | and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution

00:13:06.840 | and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution

00:13:10.600 | and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution

00:13:14.840 | and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution

00:13:18.840 | and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution

00:13:22.840 | and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution

00:13:26.840 | and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution and we're going to go out and buy the uss constitution

00:13:31.000 | And with that rule engine, which I know can be built into DAOs, people can then structure

00:13:35.080 | what they're willing to bid and how much they're willing to participate in.

00:13:37.100 | And the DAO as a whole can resolve what it's willing to pay to go buy an asset.

00:13:40.800 | And everyone can feel like they know what they're getting as they get into these things.

00:13:44.120 | And then the third problem with this particular DAO as we saw, and I know it's kind of the

00:13:46.880 | first big one like this was the obvious point that these guys were showing the world how

00:13:50.660 | much they were about to go bid on this asset.

00:13:52.560 | And if you take $46 million, and you divide it by 1.13, or which, you know, remember,

00:13:58.080 | there's a 13% buyer's premium on this asset.

00:14:01.320 | They showed everyone what they're going to pay.

00:14:02.560 | And of course, they lost at $1 over there.

00:14:04.860 | They were the underbidder.

00:14:05.860 | I'll say something else.

00:14:07.140 | The only fractionalized asset that has ever been proven to appreciate reliably our stocks.

00:14:15.960 | Every other fractionalized asset where you take something and then you divvy it up, generally

00:14:21.740 | has been a trash burger.

00:14:23.760 | You need to either own the whole thing yourself.

00:14:26.980 | Or if you're going to own it.

00:14:28.080 | With a bunch of other people.

00:14:29.700 | The only thing that's reliable are equities.

00:14:32.020 | Now that's just a historical artifact for how money has been made.

00:14:35.540 | So I appreciate Jason, what you're saying, which is I think actually you care about the

00:14:40.420 | structure because I think it has huge implications to people pursuing wealth creation for themselves

00:14:45.660 | for people participating in private markets.

00:14:48.020 | But I do think that you're overblowing this one example because I don't think this showed

00:14:53.240 | any of that.

00:14:54.320 | I think that this showed how unreliable and useless.

00:14:58.080 | Ethereum is as a transactional layer for these things.

00:15:02.080 | The fact that these poor people now have money stuck in a Dow that they can't get out of

00:15:06.200 | because it would the gas fees would negate their contribution.

00:15:08.940 | So that didn't be.

00:15:09.940 | These are all the bumps in the road.

00:15:11.840 | One second, please.

00:15:12.840 | You got to hold on.

00:15:13.840 | It didn't prove governance because as David said, we had this inflationary outcome where

00:15:18.700 | all of a sudden I didn't know the equity that I owned.

00:15:22.520 | The transparency worked against them because you're bidding on an asset where you were

00:15:25.700 | clear about the threshold max price you could pay.

00:15:28.080 | You had no pricing power and you had no opacity in your bidding strategy.

00:15:34.420 | So I think that this was a PR lark.

00:15:37.760 | In fact, they said it started out as a joke and it took on a head of steam.

00:15:41.180 | So I think they felt like they had to execute.

00:15:43.380 | What I would say is there are going to be some really amazing examples of Dows.

00:15:48.300 | This proved none of those things that the amazing ones will prove, in my opinion.

00:15:52.640 | This will invite regulatory scrutiny faster than it will keep it away.

00:15:56.700 | You will see.

00:15:58.080 | You know, more of these scenarios where people get screwed out of money like they did in

00:16:01.320 | this particular case.

00:16:02.320 | And I know a lot of everyone that participate in this now.

00:16:03.900 | I know that there's altruistic reasons.

00:16:05.640 | Who do they sue?

00:16:06.640 | Who do they sue?

00:16:07.640 | The people who do they sue?

00:16:08.980 | Who do they go after now that they lost the $200 that they contributed?

00:16:12.080 | Yeah, I mean, there's there's there's no structure.

00:16:14.840 | And I think that's part of the regulatory.

00:16:16.700 | You know, how do they get the money back?

00:16:19.880 | I can respond.

00:16:20.880 | Who's the person that who's the person that like, you know what, honestly, if that was

00:16:24.360 | control, the social if that Dow had called me.

00:16:28.080 | I'd actually bid for them and actually won that fucking thing for half the price.

00:16:32.680 | You know what I mean?

00:16:33.680 | So you got anything?

00:16:34.680 | You want to chime in?

00:16:35.680 | No, I mean, well, I would like to give a closing argument.

00:16:40.080 | Why don't you go for it?

00:16:41.080 | All right.

00:16:42.080 | Number one, you're all speaking like a bunch of rich accredited investors.

00:16:46.040 | We need to think about people who do not get to participate.

00:16:50.780 | And what I see in my day job is people go to an equity crowdfunding site, it's too arduous

00:16:56.660 | to allow non accredited investors.

00:16:58.080 | To invest, it takes months, and it's tons of paperwork.

00:17:01.120 | So then what happens is the best deal flow, which goes to the people who are on this podcast

00:17:04.920 | who are already rich, we get to sweep up all the best deals, because people who are founders

00:17:09.940 | and who have opportunities in corporations do not bother doing equity crowdfunding because

00:17:14.660 | the SEC in their wisdom to try to protect people and they have good intent to your point,

00:17:19.460 | Friedberg has made it so arduous and painful for people that they then don't do it the

00:17:24.820 | founders I'm talking about this then keeps people down.

00:17:28.080 | When we were all poor, we got to spend our money gambling or doing whatever we want with

00:17:33.160 | it.

00:17:34.160 | But we all would have wanted to have when we were non accredited, the ability to place

00:17:37.460 | a bet on a startup.

00:17:39.460 | And y'all are forgetting that.

00:17:41.720 | What's going to happen here, all of what you're saying, all of what you're saying, Chamath,

00:17:45.420 | in terms of the problems here are absolutely accurate and valid.

00:17:48.720 | And those are what you need.

00:17:50.440 | You need to identify through projects like this, the gas fees are a problem.

00:17:54.140 | So people can move this to Solana, you need to find out that they don't know how to do

00:17:57.120 | bidding.

00:17:58.080 | They don't say how much has been raised, so that they can come in and bid more intelligently.

00:18:02.380 | And maybe they do need to pick a better target.

00:18:04.380 | But this is $200 per person.

00:18:06.640 | There you guys are acting like these people are going to lose their shirt.

00:18:09.400 | We agree with you.

00:18:10.400 | I agree with you.

00:18:11.400 | I agree with me.

00:18:12.400 | I agree 1000%.

00:18:13.500 | I'm a free markets guy, I would love for there to be no regulation, and everyone will come

00:18:17.540 | in.

00:18:18.540 | And the problem is society won't let that happen.

00:18:19.800 | And that's the point I'm trying to make.

00:18:20.800 | It's not other societies have other societies know, if you're in the UK, if you're in Australia,

00:18:26.280 | you can go gamble and you can go bet on something.

00:18:28.080 | But if you're in one of those startups, there are different accreditation laws, we have

00:18:30.620 | antiquated ones that United States, the United States regulatory regime will be invoked,

00:18:36.760 | because people will lose money, and individuals will raise their hand and say I put money

00:18:40.340 | into a DAO that I lost my ass on and enough 1000s of people do that.

00:18:44.500 | And then Elizabeth Warren and AOC will get on their, you know, their horse and they'll

00:18:49.100 | say let's, let's fix this problem.

00:18:51.460 | Bernie Sanders will say this is unfair.

00:18:53.120 | The billionaires are taking the money from people.

00:18:55.220 | And so I agree with you, we should let people take risk.

00:18:57.260 | We should let people live.

00:18:58.060 | We should let people lose money, we should drop all the regulatory burden.

00:19:01.140 | My point is really that I think structurally, what's going to happen is there are going

00:19:04.600 | to be more of those things that are going to show up that will rip people off, and that

00:19:07.540 | will heighten regulatory interest.

00:19:09.360 | And people will come along and they'll start to clamp down on this stuff.

00:19:11.740 | And that's, that's my point.

00:19:12.740 | Okay.

00:19:13.740 | I also think this example has nothing to do with what you're talking about.

00:19:15.920 | I think what you're talking about J Cal is laudable.

00:19:18.840 | And we should all want that because I think that the broader number of people that get

00:19:22.540 | to participate in the wealth creation in tech, the better.

00:19:26.900 | But there are different ways of doing it.

00:19:28.060 | I don't think we have to run full force and embrace the Dow as the only way that that

00:19:32.660 | happens.

00:19:33.660 | And I think that structurally, the the democ the democratic norms inside of a Dow, in many

00:19:40.340 | ways make it much harder to govern inside a regulatory framework.

00:19:44.360 | And it does set up a very binary decision by the SEC and US regulators, which unfortunately,

00:19:51.200 | they're not going to go and be supportive of because the binary decision to support

00:19:56.380 | them would effectively negate their rights.

00:19:57.380 | Okay.

00:19:57.380 | Thank you.

00:19:57.440 | And then you're going to have to go back and say, Hey, we're going to have to do this.

00:19:58.980 | That's right.

00:19:59.980 | Yeah, they got jobs to keep to they have jobs to keep and I mean, I think it's a cynical

00:20:05.440 | and accurate prediction that they will fight it.

00:20:07.640 | But what you may not be aware of is that there is in the startup act from years ago, they

00:20:13.860 | did allow equity crowdfunding, they put a lot of throttling on it.

00:20:16.560 | And now they're going to let you get accredited through taking a course or like kind of having

00:20:21.260 | a driver's license or a gun permit.

00:20:23.120 | So it is conceivable that the next time a Dow happens, and they're trying to buy, you're going to have to go buy a car.

00:20:24.040 | That's right.

00:20:25.040 | So that's a good way to go.

00:20:26.040 | Yeah.

00:20:26.160 | Yeah.

00:20:26.240 | Yeah.

00:20:26.440 | Yeah.

00:20:26.500 | Yeah.

00:20:26.560 | Yeah.

00:20:26.640 | trying to buy. But can you stop conflating these things

00:20:29.620 | together. We've had iterations in the crowdfunding rules.

00:20:33.400 | You're just trying to tag this with a Dow can give you just

00:20:36.900 | separated. Could wait, hold on a second, can I just ask a

00:20:39.060 | question? Can you please just describe and acknowledge that

00:20:42.400 | the crowdfunding rules have iteratively evolved? Yes, yes.

00:20:47.820 | Okay, so just separate the two, they're not the same thing.

00:20:50.700 | They are two sides of the same coin. Because now is allow a

00:20:55.060 | global participation in this and the capital can be formed

00:20:58.000 | instantly. This was done in days. That's what's so powerful

00:21:01.720 | about it. It costs 10s of 1000s to 100s of dollars to do an

00:21:05.500 | equity crowdfunding. This costs nothing

00:21:07.540 | because it was for a in an ethereal superficial asset with

00:21:12.160 | a name that people recognize. Let me hold on a second. Now let

00:21:15.280 | me replace the US Constitution with I don't know, Jason, you

00:21:20.000 | just sent a deal a day ago. What was the name of it? Let's just

00:21:22.820 | call it acme.com. Sure.

00:21:25.000 | Now what are people supposed to do? It's not a known asset. They

00:21:30.340 | are not known founders. There may be turbulent issues inside

00:21:33.740 | the company that are still being hammered out. What are these

00:21:36.160 | people supposed to do? How are they intelligent small bet?

00:21:38.680 | place a small mat, do some research, vote on it, do

00:21:41.980 | collective research in a discord. You're looking you have

00:21:44.540 | a bunch of researchers working for you. You defended the me. You

00:21:48.820 | have a team, your team does research and they're smart

00:21:51.700 | people and they get paid very well. You were

00:21:54.640 | praising the coverage that Wall Street bets did on GME on this

00:21:59.140 | podcast 40 episodes ago, you were saying how it was incredible

00:22:02.740 | there was because they were analyzing public companies who

00:22:06.380 | are governed by securities law. They can't do that with a

00:22:08.740 | private company. Yes, because there are no rules that govern

00:22:12.280 | disclosure. GameStop had very strict disclosure rules because

00:22:17.020 | they were public. That was what allowed Wall Street bets to

00:22:20.960 | understand what was going on under the hood of GameStop. It

00:22:23.680 | was the disclosure.

00:22:24.280 | disclosure of the funds that the SEC is forced you to make

00:22:27.940 | that allowed people to understand the long and the short

00:22:30.760 | book that was building against it. If that was in the private

00:22:34.120 | markets, that data is not obligated to be provided in the

00:22:37.540 | in the wild. Wall Street bets would have had no idea. So I

00:22:42.100 | think you're actually proving the opposite of what you intend,

00:22:44.560 | which is, it's the regulatory framework that allowed the

00:22:47.740 | retail GME position to happen.

00:22:49.360 | Great, David. And then,

00:22:50.680 | yeah, can I translate with Jake house saying, I think what Jake

00:22:53.680 | house saying is,

00:22:54.260 | we need to create some space here for innovation so that

00:22:57.800 | entrepreneurs can work out the kinks of these DAOs so that one

00:23:01.700 | day, Jake, I'll can run a syndicate on a blockchain and

00:23:04.880 | fundraise that way. Isn't that what you're saying, Jake?

00:23:06.980 | Or anybody? I mean, here's what I'll say, you know, when we do a

00:23:10.100 | syndicate amongst accredited investors, your book here in a

00:23:12.500 | weird way. I didn't mention the syndicate. I didn't mention the

00:23:15.740 | syndicate.com once he was his competitors to your syndicates,

00:23:19.760 | but now you're all on the doubt train.

00:23:21.560 | ICOs I, I thought were too big. So I think you could solve this

00:23:26.840 | problem by looking at the bet size that people are allowed to

00:23:29.120 | make. So you can just say, hey, the upper limit is 5k. So now

00:23:32.120 | you've basically taken the individual cratering. Well,

00:23:35.120 | because if you wanted to create a regulatory environment, well,

00:23:38.660 | because it would know, I think you created a de minimis

00:23:41.540 | exception. So honestly, guys, the first 100% worth and 1% of

00:23:46.220 | another's. Okay, so make it a percent of net worth. No, the

00:23:49.580 | first thing principle of portfolio construction is you

00:23:51.800 | need to be concentrated in the things you know, and you need to

00:23:54.800 | stay away from the things you don't if you cap the upside on

00:23:57.560 | the amount you can invest. What are people supposed to do peanut

00:24:00.320 | butter around 50 bets? And you know what will happen, Jason,

00:24:03.320 | most of those will be losers, because the mortality rate in

00:24:05.840 | startups is super high. And they'll end up with basically

00:24:08.480 | nothing. How do they do in Vegas? How do they do betting

00:24:11.300 | sports about how to invest? I mean, I think what we're saying

00:24:13.940 | is that this that I mean, this is where I actually agree is

00:24:17.360 | that the regulators should carve out.

00:24:19.520 | enough room so that innovation could continue around this

00:24:22.220 | concept of DAOs because who knows what they could become one

00:24:25.100 | day. And we shouldn't we shouldn't kill this thing.

00:24:27.500 | Hold on. We haven't killed anything because nothing exists.

00:24:30.740 | And there are no rules about DAOs. The regulators haven't

00:24:33.340 | said anything. I think we all agree that crowdfunding rules

00:24:35.700 | should get much more expensive. That makes sense. And with that,

00:24:39.500 | private companies should disclose more. That makes sense,

00:24:43.380 | right? We all agree with that, so that you can have more

00:24:45.680 | disclosure and public available data. So Jason, to your point,

00:24:49.220 | communities can get into a discord like today, if you said,

00:24:52.040 | Hey, guys, let's go and analyze a late stage investment in

00:24:54.460 | stripe. What do you do? blather on about it and just talk at

00:24:58.840 | each other? There are no sex. There are no disclosures. No,

00:25:01.980 | but hold on to this question. So now, so now are you supposed to

00:25:04.760 | are you supposed to enter Carta or some other third party

00:25:08.260 | platform and buy it at 120 billion? How do you underwrite

00:25:10.980 | that?

00:25:11.180 | Very simple, very simple. In the startup DAO concept we're

00:25:14.940 | talking about here, you would do exactly what angel investors do,

00:25:17.660 | which is say, Hey, okay, we had

00:25:19.040 | let's say this Constitution now was to invest in startups. Okay,

00:25:22.940 | 20,000 people put 200 in each, we have a $40 million pool. Okay,

00:25:26.240 | we're all going to submit ideas. And then we're going to ask and

00:25:29.840 | invite those founders to come pitch the DAO on a zoom. And

00:25:33.260 | we'll all vote on which ones we like best. And instead of, you

00:25:36.540 | know, a venture capital firm getting access to this. Now,

00:25:39.380 | those 20,000 people could say, you know what, we're going to

00:25:42.140 | make 20 half million dollar bets, and then we're going to

00:25:45.740 | pour the 30 million into the winners of that. And that is

00:25:48.500 | just what I do for a living or any other angel investor or early

00:25:51.020 | stage investor does you invite founders come and pitch you and

00:25:53.360 | you place an intelligent bet, just like people bet on the Knicks

00:25:55.980 | or sadly on the Jets and lose their money all the time. And I

00:25:59.880 | like David's idea of saying, Hey, maybe for the next two

00:26:02.720 | years, we'll have a DAO exception where you can raise,

00:26:06.140 | you know, from 1000 up to 5000 people up to $10 million. And you

00:26:11.340 | just have to file that you're not a felon. And we have some

00:26:14.860 | basic framework to experiment with this because you could buy,

00:26:17.460 | you know,

00:26:18.200 | a building that was going to be torn down, like some movie

00:26:21.200 | theater for a community. You could do nonprofit stuff,

00:26:24.920 | there's all kinds of beautiful things you could do with this

00:26:26.900 | instant capital formation and government structure that is

00:26:29.760 | programmable. Okay, well, it does relate to capital formation

00:26:32.880 | in the startup ecosystem. Here's what I'll say.

00:26:34.640 | You made a great point about Uber and Lyft pushing the

00:26:37.860 | boundaries and forcing the regulators to react. Yes, you

00:26:41.020 | know why that happened? It's because Uber and Lyft worked.

00:26:44.660 | Yes, and it was successful.

00:26:47.540 | And this thing was not successful. And so maybe if it

00:26:52.160 | is, there's an on ramp, but I would say that the energy is

00:26:55.160 | better served in not focusing on a PR lark, and probably just

00:27:00.660 | focusing on trying to improve the crowdfunding laws writ large,

00:27:03.940 | which are already on the books and can be iterated upon versus

00:27:07.340 | an entire new body of regulation where nobody even has any idea

00:27:10.840 | what a starting point should be.

00:27:11.840 | I think it's very hard to get get those crowdfunding laws

00:27:16.020 | expanded.

00:27:16.640 | And with the kind of the crowdfunding laws, which are kind of the core of the regulation.

00:27:16.700 | And with the under the current regime, it's sort of a minor miracle that they even got what they got

00:27:20.940 | several years ago, right? Wasn't that?

00:27:22.580 | Well, it happened under Obama when the jobs 2008. Yes, the jobs was in 2008. When the market crashed,

00:27:28.560 | we said, nobody's starting companies were screwed here, we need to get the economy going again. So

00:27:35.540 | we're just going to allow more capital formation. And so the 99 rule for LLCs went to 250. And they

00:27:42.600 | just kind of loosen things a little bit. And now they're the mandate is the SEC has to have a lot of capital formation.

00:27:45.860 | SEC has to have a certification test for people to do private market investing. And also people who work at VC firms, right, we have people who work for us who are not accredited, they don't get to participate, but they get an exception if they work at a venture firm, etc. So it's just

00:27:59.900 | it's probably simultaneously true that this thing was massively overhyped. While also being the case that it's a worthwhile experiment that may lead to, you know, useful innovation in the future.

00:28:13.280 | what I always look at when I see new technologies doing something is I just imagine if a 10 x, and what that would look like, and if it worked, and then I just 10x it one more time. So what we're going to see I predict is this $40 million Dow will turn into a 400 million one in the next two years, and then a 4 billion one in the next 10. And people are going to do something extraordinary. They're going to do something so otherworldly changing. What if a million people or 10 million people around the globe decided they were going to put money in to do a solar farm, or something that would help society?

00:28:40.700 | farm or something that would help society. You can already do that, J. Cal. I mean,

00:28:44.940 | that's like a manager can- Not frictionless.

00:28:47.400 | Someone's got to manage it. J. Cal's fantasizing about how big

00:28:50.960 | a syndicate's going to be. Yeah. That seems to be what's going on.

00:28:54.040 | My syndicate is too large right now. I can't accommodate everybody. And it's also because

00:28:59.240 | of the laws. It's okay. It could get bigger, right?

00:29:00.600 | Well, no. The problem is you can only have 250 people in it. That's the problem.

00:29:03.980 | We beat this down to death, guys. Yeah, come on.

00:29:06.020 | We beat it to death. Okay. Anyway, I'm obsessed with it.

00:29:08.460 | Clearly. Fentanyl debt's in the US. We're

00:29:10.000 | reaching a crisis point. Fentanyl debt's? Is that really what we're talking about?

00:29:13.640 | I mean, we talked about it in the chat. Are you deliberately trying to avoid the

00:29:17.920 | biggest news today of the biggest trawlers? No, no. I get it. That's just a weird

00:29:22.780 | transition. I'm just going straight down through the docket. But if you want to jump the fence,

00:29:26.500 | okay. Well, I'm not trying to.

00:29:28.180 | Kyle Rittenhouse was found not guilty of all charges.

00:29:30.240 | It happened within half an hour of us beginning to record this podcast. I don't know how it's

00:29:34.500 | not topical. I'm trying to keep the Friedberg ratio up.

00:29:36.280 | We had a nice, strong, emotional moment from Friedberg. He obviously is going to have

00:29:39.300 | something to say about fentanyl and science. But okay, he's going to walk off the show now to talk

00:29:42.900 | when you start talking politics. I'm not gonna walk off the show.

00:29:45.240 | You did last week. You walked off. You walked off and went. You got a beverage. You left for like

00:29:48.980 | five minutes. I had to go pee.

00:29:50.760 | All right, fine. I mean, come on.

00:29:52.120 | It just happened to be during politics. Kyle Rittenhouse was found not guilty.

00:29:54.720 | That's usually when I take my break. Yeah.

00:29:56.100 | Exactly. And a third of the audience. Kyle Rittenhouse found not guilty of all charges. A

00:30:00.900 | 12 person jury in the Kyle Rittenhouse trial reached the decision after over 26 hours of

00:30:07.680 | deliberation.

00:30:08.520 | He shot three people. He killed two of them and he was found not guilty. He was 17 at the time of

00:30:15.420 | the shooting. He was charged with killing the two men and a third during the protest in Kenosha,

00:30:21.180 | Wisconsin in August of 2020. This was during the protests over the police shooting of Jacob Blake.

00:30:27.840 | He claims he traveled from Illinois with an AR 15 style rifle to help protect businesses and

00:30:34.140 | why first aid he didn't he did not he did not cross state lines with the rifle that's one of the many

00:30:40.380 | inaccuracies that have been reported by the media over and over again because his dad lived there

00:30:45.820 | i guess he was his dad lived in kenosha i think he went to school in kenosha he worked in kenosha

00:30:50.300 | you got to understand like this is they're a few minutes apart where from his mother's house and

00:30:55.100 | he never he never carried the gun across state lines the gun was bought from by a friend who

00:31:00.140 | was 18 who could possess it and it was kept at his house which is in kenosha got it he was

00:31:05.820 | apparently in kenosha earlier that day um and you know cleaning up graffiti at the school and

00:31:11.900 | checking out the downtown and then you know obviously when he went out that night then he

00:31:16.060 | got the gun but he didn't transport it across state lines so that's i think one of the most

00:31:21.660 | what do you think what is your most important insight into this case and what it represents for

00:31:27.820 | american society and uh

00:31:29.900 | the justice system sex well i think the case has become a little bit of a rorschach test of how you

00:31:36.460 | see america i mean there's clearly a group of people in the i'd say the main dominating the

00:31:42.060 | mainstream media announced percolated down to celebrities and figures from lebron james to to um

00:31:47.740 | i'm spacing but there's a lot of like celebrities who've come out

00:31:52.300 | putting forward this view that america that this trial somehow is um that that cowl written house

00:31:59.660 | and white house is a very important case and i think that's a very important case and i think

00:31:59.880 | that's a very important case and i think that's a very important case and i think that's a very

00:31:59.900 | white supremacist and that this not guilty verdict is an example of white supremacy in

00:32:04.040 | white supremacist and that this not guilty verdict is an example of white supremacy in

00:32:04.040 | white supremacist and that this not guilty verdict is an example of white supremacy in america somehow

00:32:05.160 | america somehow

00:32:05.160 | america somehow that became the narrative and um so

00:32:09.000 | that i think it's become i think there's like a couple levels to it one is the trial itself and

00:32:13.160 | that i think it's become i think there's like a couple levels to it one is the trial itself and

00:32:13.160 | that i think it's become i think there's like a couple levels to it one is the trial itself and what you think about the legal

00:32:14.120 | what you think about the legal

00:32:14.120 | what you think about the legal case i don't think that is that complicated

00:32:16.840 | case i don't think that is that complicated

00:32:16.840 | case i don't think that is that complicated or interesting you have here that the

00:32:19.880 | or interesting you have here that the

00:32:19.880 | or interesting you have here that the state was required to prove beyond a

00:32:21.720 | state was required to prove beyond a

00:32:21.720 | state was required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt

00:32:23.160 | reasonable doubt

00:32:23.160 | reasonable doubt that rittenhouse

00:32:25.720 | that rittenhouse

00:32:25.720 | that rittenhouse did not act reasonably in self-defense

00:32:27.960 | did not act reasonably in self-defense

00:32:27.960 | did not act reasonably in self-defense when three violent attackers came

00:32:30.040 | when three violent attackers came

00:32:30.040 | when three violent attackers came charging towards him that was i think a

00:32:32.040 | charging towards him that was i think a

00:32:32.040 | charging towards him that was i think a pretty tough case to make one of them

00:32:33.960 | pretty tough case to make one of them

00:32:33.960 | pretty tough case to make one of them had a gun pull too i mean this was right

00:32:35.800 | had a gun pull too i mean this was right

00:32:35.800 | had a gun pull too i mean this was right and so all of them had long criminal

00:32:37.480 | and so all of them had long criminal

00:32:37.480 | and so all of them had long criminal histories the first one who attacked him

00:32:40.040 | histories the first one who attacked him

00:32:40.040 | histories the first one who attacked him was daring him to told said that he was

00:32:43.240 | was daring him to told said that he was

00:32:43.240 | was daring him to told said that he was going to kill rittenhouse the second one

00:32:44.680 | going to kill rittenhouse the second one

00:32:44.680 | going to kill rittenhouse the second one was bashing him over the head with a

00:32:46.520 | was bashing him over the head with a

00:32:46.520 | was bashing him over the head with a skateboard the third one was rushing

00:32:48.280 | skateboard the third one was rushing

00:32:48.280 | skateboard the third one was rushing towards him when rittenhouse was on the

00:32:50.040 | towards him when rittenhouse was on the

00:32:50.040 | towards him when rittenhouse was on the ground had a gun trained on him looked

00:32:52.280 | ground had a gun trained on him looked like he was going to bring it to his

00:32:53.240 | like he was going to bring it to his

00:32:53.240 | like he was going to bring it to his head kind of execution style i mean all

00:32:55.400 | head kind of execution style i mean all

00:32:55.400 | head kind of execution style i mean all these i think cases if you saw the

00:32:57.400 | these i think cases if you saw the

00:32:57.400 | these i think cases if you saw the video from i mean from the first time

00:33:00.120 | video from i mean from the first time

00:33:00.120 | video from i mean from the first time it seemed pretty clear that he had a

00:33:02.040 | it seemed pretty clear that he had a

00:33:02.040 | it seemed pretty clear that he had a strong claim of self-defense so i don't

00:33:04.360 | strong claim of self-defense so i don't

00:33:04.360 | strong claim of self-defense so i don't think the case itself was that legally

00:33:06.760 | think the case itself was that legally

00:33:06.760 | think the case itself was that legally interesting the question is why it got

00:33:08.600 | interesting the question is why it got

00:33:08.620 | interesting the question is why it got blown up into being this like huge thing

00:33:11.320 | blown up into being this like huge thing

00:33:11.340 | blown up into being this like huge thing and it's really because the media wanted

00:33:13.560 | and it's really because the media wanted

00:33:13.580 | and it's really because the media wanted this so badly

00:33:15.160 | this so badly

00:33:15.180 | this so badly to be

00:33:16.280 | to be

00:33:16.300 | to be to feed into this narrative of somehow

00:33:18.680 | to feed into this narrative of somehow

00:33:18.700 | to feed into this narrative of somehow that this is you know a white supremacist

00:33:20.920 | that this is you know a white supremacist

00:33:20.940 | that this is you know a white supremacist violent attacker who was a vigilante who

00:33:23.480 | violent attacker who was a vigilante who

00:33:23.500 | violent attacker who was a vigilante who crossed eight lines with this ar-15 to

00:33:26.680 | crossed eight lines with this ar-15 to

00:33:26.700 | crossed eight lines with this ar-15 to go seek out trouble

00:33:28.200 | go seek out trouble

00:33:28.220 | go seek out trouble um to confront people at the protest and

00:33:31.240 | um to confront people at the protest and

00:33:31.260 | um to confront people at the protest and you know that case that that narrative

00:33:33.000 | you know that case that that narrative

00:33:33.020 | you know that case that that narrative just completely fell apart at the trial

00:33:36.200 | just completely fell apart at the trial

00:33:36.220 | just completely fell apart at the trial you know it's he didn't cross state

00:33:38.680 | you know it's he didn't cross state

00:33:38.700 | you know it's he didn't cross state lines for you know in that way he

00:33:40.520 | lines for you know in that way he

00:33:40.540 | lines for you know in that way he didn't you know with the gun

00:33:43.400 | didn't you know with the gun

00:33:43.420 | didn't you know with the gun when he went to this protest he went

00:33:46.120 | when he went to this protest he went

00:33:46.140 | when he went to this protest he went there

00:33:47.080 | there

00:33:47.100 | there it's interesting i mean

00:33:48.760 | He was a cadet, an EMT cadet. He was kind of in this like junior firefighter program.

00:33:53.720 | I'm not saying that he showed good judgment. I think it was poor judgment for him to

00:33:57.160 | try and insert himself into that situation. But I don't think he went there to kill anyone or

00:34:02.440 | to get into a confrontation. He brought a first aid kit, for you know, for better or worse,

00:34:07.400 | he thought he was gonna help people. And so, any event, the story really is

00:34:13.080 | about the media constructing this narrative that fell apart so quickly, as soon as all the facts

00:34:19.960 | came out.

00:34:20.360 | Freiburg, Jamal?

00:34:22.680 | Yeah, I think the I read that there was an analysis of the media and how they tried to

00:34:30.120 | portray this and that I think I'll build on what David said, which is was really concerning, like

00:34:35.400 | the there was they really wanted this to be a white kid who killed black people during a BLM

00:34:42.600 | protest.

00:34:43.080 | Which was, as it turned out the furthest from the truth. I'll just tell you my experience

00:34:48.360 | when I first saw it. That's what I thought I had read. And I'll be really honest with you.

00:34:53.640 | Initially, I was incredibly biased and my I had a violent reaction inside me of anger towards this

00:35:00.120 | kid. Because my thought was my God, this white kid showed up at a Black Lives Matter rally and killed,

00:35:05.960 | you know, three of my brothers, you know, like, literally, that's how I'm feeling. I was so angry,

00:35:12.680 | because

00:35:12.920 | they didn't really give the facts. There was an example where in Germany, it got so out of hand

00:35:20.840 | that the articles were written that Kyle Rittenhouse had actually killed three black men

00:35:24.440 | or two black men. And I think that that's very dangerous, because we need to have the truth and

00:35:30.680 | the facts so we can really figure out what's going on, so that we can address what's broken.

00:35:35.960 | We can hold people accountable. And then we can move forward together and heal it. But, you know,

00:35:42.680 | but this like is the opposite of healing, it just froths people up to make a lot of judgments with

00:35:49.800 | misinformation. And I think that that's very unfair. I didn't, to be honest with you, after

00:35:54.360 | I saw the facts, I stopped paying attention to this case, because I literally exhaled.

00:35:59.560 | I would have been much more hurt. And I would have probably paid more attention.

00:36:04.920 | If this wasn't white on white violence, quite honestly.

00:36:09.480 | Right, right. And I think people, I think we've heard from a lot of people over when Rittenhouse's

00:36:16.360 | testimony kind of went viral and started getting reported on, there were a lot of people out there

00:36:20.920 | who were surprised to learn that all the victims were white, that this was an example of white on

00:36:26.600 | white violence, because it had been portrayed by the media as some sort of racial episode.

00:36:31.400 | And, and it wasn't and it shows how the media is fueling this polarization and rage in our society,

00:36:39.000 | by concocting these narratives, which aren't true.

00:36:41.480 | It's really that that I think is the dangerous thing. I didn't follow the case to know whether

00:36:45.880 | this kid was right or wrong. But I do think if the media uses these opportunities to not

00:36:52.120 | just tell the facts, and then race baits people on both the left and the right and gets them

00:36:58.200 | frothed up, they're doing a real disservice to America, because I think it takes good people.

00:37:02.200 | And it puts them in a state like me for a while at the beginning where I was really angry, and I

00:37:08.520 | didn't know how I felt. And that's and I'm a lucid person. You know, 99.999% of the time.

00:37:16.280 | You're thoughtful, yeah.

00:37:17.240 | And so it just goes to show you how dangerous this stuff is when they can take a narrative

00:37:21.640 | and run with it, and then there's no accountability for it. And we really

00:37:25.560 | have to stop and check ourselves. It just speaks to this ongoing fact pattern where

00:37:29.800 | the media is at a point where they are at a very much a low point in their trustworthiness, their

00:37:37.160 | ability to fact check.

00:37:38.040 | Yeah.

00:37:38.520 | Their ability to stick to the truth. I think it's been undone. Just this past week,

00:37:44.600 | you know, I think Elon even tweeted out like, you know, he in exasperation, he said,

00:37:49.320 | where can I find like thoughtful news? Right? He was asking Twitter, like, what websites and,

00:37:55.880 | and the question wasn't that bad. But if you read the answers, it was really sad.

00:38:02.680 | Nobody had a good answer. You know, one person was like, oh, there's a browser extension that will

00:38:07.560 | show you how, you know, how much lying is happening inside the article. And I thought to

00:38:13.160 | myself, my God, like, there are browser extensions, like a lieometer, you know, like, this is insanity

00:38:18.920 | that, that in 2021, that's what we are faced with, which is very smart people, all of us,

00:38:25.400 | everybody listening, normal people just, you know, out on the street,

00:38:30.200 | we can all come to the right conclusion when given the facts, and we're not given the facts anymore.

00:38:34.120 | Jake, how do you think we're missing something here?

00:38:37.080 | Because you, you, I know, you thought that this whole Rittenhouse thing was crazy,

00:38:43.720 | right? Which it was, but are we missing something in your view?

00:38:46.520 | Well, I mean, I think, first off, violent protests, and violence is immoral. And all

00:38:55.640 | of these protests, whether it's BLM, on the left, on the right, they should all be nonviolent.

00:39:00.520 | There's a reason why Martin Luther King and Gandhi, you know, said, that's the rules. If

00:39:04.520 | you want to come to the protest, you have to be nonviolent. And that's, that's the rule. And,

00:39:06.600 | and then I think the rhetoric that was created during the Trump era, and that he exacerbated,

00:39:11.320 | and that he caused from a lot of his policies, and the way he spoke as the leader of the free

00:39:16.360 | world in our country, then polarized things, I blame him for a lot of that. And if you put a

00:39:21.480 | bunch of people who are on the far extremes into a situation like this, and then you insert guns,

00:39:27.720 | and you insert young people who have not developed their frontal lobes, who do not

00:39:31.560 | have long term thinking, which a 17 year old does not your long term and Freebird will back me up on

00:39:36.120 | this in terms of science, long term thinking is something that develops in humans into their early

00:39:41.080 | 20s. And so young people with guns in a violent situation with Trump on TV during this time, both

00:39:48.520 | good people on both sides, whatever, you know, the borders, all that stuff that he was stirring the

00:39:52.440 | pot on all of that eventually resolves to somebody's going to get killed, whether it's on

00:39:58.280 | January 6, or it's a BLM protest. And that is why he had such a failure of leadership while he was

00:40:03.480 | so disgusting and horrible and loathsome.

00:40:05.640 | David Erickson: Because he was taking all of this heat and rhetoric up, up, up. And the

00:40:09.720 | person who winds up suffering in this are these stupid kids. And they're really dumb parents and

00:40:14.840 | mother who allow them to go to a protest and she could have stopped him with a gun. Somebody needs

00:40:20.440 | to stop these kids from going to a protest with a gun. And I think there's a very difficult question

00:40:25.080 | here that can be asked. And it probably is true. I think that it was an open and shut case, David,

00:40:30.200 | that I mean, I saw the video as well, Chamath, the guy puts a gun on him, what are you gonna do?

00:40:35.160 | You've got a gun, this guy's pointing a gun at you, whoever fires first survives, it is self

00:40:38.760 | defense. And that's kind of undeniable, I think. But if I would hope that the number of people that

00:40:46.680 | really focus on this case, look at the innumerable number of cases of black and brown people that

00:40:51.960 | have been killed. The Ahmaud Arbery trial is going on right now. Yes, I'm sorry, but I've seen one

00:40:56.120 | article in Ahmaud Arbery for every 50 about Kyle Rittenhouse. Yeah, I just really hope Ahmaud

00:41:00.680 | Arbery gets his fair trial. And that was a straight up lynching. And let me say again,

00:41:04.680 | Breonna Taylor, not a single thing has still been done. Okay. So I'm not that sympathetic to all of

00:41:10.680 | this talk right now. Because there are a lot of black and brown men and women who have been killed

00:41:16.920 | in this country. Yes, we're none of you guys care as much. Oh, I care. And that was exactly where

00:41:21.720 | I was about to get to the question I was about to ask you, Chamath is if Kyle Rittenhouse had

00:41:26.920 | been a black man, and he had shot those three people, what would the outcome of this trial

00:41:30.920 | have been? Would it have been the same justice system? And I don't think that,

00:41:34.200 | I don't think that anybody can answer that question and say it would have been fair justice.

00:41:37.240 | I don't think it would have been I think the chance would be very low.

00:41:39.320 | It makes me in this situation would have been just just you saying it makes me want to cry. Okay?

00:41:44.520 | It would not have I didn't say for that reason, but it is the truth. And I think that's what

00:41:49.640 | you know, we in this country, race is something that is our biggest weak point. And we need to get

00:41:55.480 | well, I mean, leadership to work on a hypothetical injustice. We don't know

00:41:59.880 | because that's a hypothetical that we can't know the answer to right now. And you're ignoring the

00:42:03.720 | justice, the injustice is right in front of your face, which is that this was a political

00:42:07.400 | prosecution from the beginning, fueled by a media narrative that was completely bogus.

00:42:11.720 | This is why I think David is right. And we have to go to this root cause issue that we can all fix.

00:42:16.440 | Yeah, you know, we can't we shouldn't debate these hypotheticals because they're hurtful. Like even

00:42:20.760 | now, like you've seen me I'm emotional, I can't think straight. So let's get the hypothetical off

00:42:24.760 | the table. Because David, you're right, it's a hypothetical.

00:42:26.440 | I mean, this case probably should never this case should never have been brought. I mean,

00:42:29.640 | as soon as you see the video, if you look up the definition of self defense, okay,

00:42:33.240 | you just have to have a reasonable belief that your life is in danger, and then you're allowed

00:42:39.640 | to use force. And you know, Rittenhouse was running away. These guys were attacking him,

00:42:45.000 | they were chasing after him, they had a gun trained on him, they were bashing him on the

00:42:48.520 | head with a skateboard. I don't know how any prosecutor looks at this and says,

00:42:51.480 | we need to prosecute this. So the case should never have been brought. And then the media

00:42:55.560 | fuels this thing. But this is what I'm saying. That's the thing that we can all

00:42:59.000 | change, which is our reaction to that media portrayal, the media can be

00:43:02.760 | held accountable for how they lied. But how?

00:43:05.080 | Well, people are you don't trust them, and they're tuning them out. And they're going

00:43:09.080 | and finding their own answer. I mean, this has been my point. Like,

00:43:11.400 | I think we all get tuned up to what the media quote unquote is and isn't saying.

00:43:16.040 | I think that's like yesteryear's news. I mean, those those guys have lost credibility. You can

00:43:22.920 | see it in all the peer research and all the Gallup research that what used to be called

00:43:27.800 | and it's still by a lot of people called the mainstream media is no longer mainstream. And it's

00:43:32.280 | become kind of outskirt and where people are finding their, their sources of information is

00:43:37.640 | direct from the source from people that they know to be reliable, trustworthy speakers of the truth

00:43:43.080 | and speakers of facts. And they're getting them direct through social media platforms and other

00:43:47.560 | systems of self publication. And that the idea of having centralized media systems that get to have

00:43:53.400 | their own editorial and narrative over whatever facts quote, they may be kind of gathering and

00:43:57.960 | presenting to us. That's an old school way of doing things. And I don't think we have to worry

00:44:01.320 | about it too much anymore. But I think that's a good point. And I think that's a good point. And I

00:44:02.260 | think that's a good point. And I think that's a good point. Whether or not individuals will resolve

00:44:04.880 | to truth seeking or emotion seeking is the big question for the 21st century. Because as we've

00:44:10.560 | seen the media that the things that we do click on are the things that we already believe and that

00:44:14.840 | confirm our bias and that create an emotional incentive versus the things that may be not what

00:44:20.000 | we believe and not what we want to hear, but may actually be factual. And that's the big kind of

00:44:25.040 | challenging question here. I think it's less about these evil media people. And it's more about where

00:44:29.120 | individuals going to make choices. Yeah, I mean, I'd say alternatively,

00:44:32.240 | alternative media voices have never been more important. And you know, you can get a lot of them

00:44:37.340 | on substack people like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Antonio Garcia Martinez, Colin, Colin,

00:44:42.740 | Colin, Barry Weiss, I mean, they all our podcast, they all had very good coverage of this. By the

00:44:52.220 | way, I couldn't help notice the same week that this Rittenhouse narrative collapsed, the whole

00:44:57.320 | Steele dossier narrative collapsed. Okay, you had I don't want to get too political and drag it back

00:45:01.940 | to the Trump thing. But I think it's a good point. I think it's a good point. I think it's a good

00:45:02.220 | point. I think it's a good point. I think it's a good point. But you had, you know, John Durham is

00:45:04.620 | a special prosecutor unraveling this whole phony fake Steele dossier with multiple indictments. And

00:45:11.040 | you now have retractions by the Washington Post and other major publications. And that whole

00:45:15.660 | narrative that fueled like an entire year of media coverage is completely collapsing. And it's just

00:45:22.320 | another example of, you know, the media running with these narratives that turn out to be

00:45:27.060 | completely, I hate to use the word fake, but I mean, it is I mean, it's things in the dossier,

00:45:32.200 | fake, but Paul Manafort's conviction is not.

00:45:34.060 | Again, I would encourage everyone to stop using the term the media or even the term mainstream media

00:45:38.560 | and just recognize that there are specific outlets that are on their way down and are dying. Yeah,

00:45:43.300 | these are content companies that need ratings. They used to be the monopoly and they're no longer.

00:45:47.760 | And you know, they're like yesteryear's news. And it's just, you know, it's like complaining about,

00:45:52.740 | you know, whatever, pick any industry that's been disrupted, but they are and will be further

00:45:57.260 | disrupted by kind of direct to source fact gathering. The big ultimate question is what are

00:46:01.900 | the consumers going to choose? And that's the thing that scares me the most, to be honest.

00:46:05.860 | I think that they can go either way, you can either find better truth seeking, or you can

00:46:10.480 | find better emotion, more emotion seeking, and that that's going to cause more polarization and

00:46:14.680 | more ugly shit.

00:46:15.340 | Well, look, it's happening right now. You're right that the let's call it the corporate media,

00:46:20.080 | the big media corporations, their prestige and esteem in the eyes of American people

00:46:24.580 | have no and their credibility has never been lower as gone.

00:46:27.220 | New York Times and CNN.

00:46:28.600 | Absolutely. I mean, just gone and people should be questioning them. And

00:46:31.880 | stop listening to them. And you have to diversify your information diet and you've got to be

00:46:35.840 | subscribed to some alternative journalists on places like substack. But here's the thing that

00:46:40.460 | concerns me. You know, you've got the media narrative being dictated by MSNBC, and then

00:46:45.980 | it trickles down to LeBron James and Chelsea Handler. Sorry, that was the name that I forgot

00:46:50.480 | earlier, who they were perpetuating this white supremacist narrative around Kyle Rittenhouse.

00:46:55.040 | By the way, there was they looked at his phone, his text messages, everything.

00:46:57.800 | There is no connection. There's no proof whatsoever of a connection between,

00:47:01.860 | you know, him and white supremacy was completely made up by the media. And yet these major figures

00:47:06.600 | in our culture who have this outsized impact, we're tweeting about this. And so the problem is,

00:47:12.180 | you know, like people like us diversify our information diet, but there are large parts

00:47:16.740 | of the country that are just receiving this information. And it gets basically passed down

00:47:21.120 | from the media to Hollywood to the culture. Yeah. And it's from Tucker Carlson to Scott

00:47:26.820 | Bayo to the pillow guy is fueling that it is fueling tremendous device to support.

00:47:31.840 | Polarization in our culture. And I would say that, you know, JC brought up Trump and he was

00:47:36.220 | a polarizing figure, but I don't think he's the root cause of this polarization. I think he is

00:47:41.380 | a reaction to it. I think he is a manifestation of it is a manifestation of it. And ultimately,

00:47:46.000 | the root cause is the complete deterioration and collapse of journalistic standards in the media,

00:47:52.000 | in the major mainstream corporate media. I'll disagree with you on that.

00:47:55.840 | And I've made this point in the past, which is sex. I don't know if it you make it.

00:48:01.820 | Sound and other people make it sound like in a directed editorial initiative to take things in

00:48:07.160 | a direction. And I think that the reaction process is really about what do consumers want to consume?

00:48:12.800 | What they choose to consume is what they sell more of and what they produce more of. And that's the

00:48:17.720 | cycle that's driving this. And you know, that doesn't mean that these folks are not complicit

00:48:21.740 | or not making good kind of ethical decisions that could actually be argued either way. But at the

00:48:26.720 | end of the day, they're businesses that are selling content. And if consumers want content

00:48:30.080 | of one form, they're going to choose that form. Okay.

00:48:31.800 | Okay, look, I think you have a point that once a publication goes in a certain direction,

00:48:36.180 | starts getting subscribers, there's some positive reinforcement there that has them keep pushing in

00:48:40.260 | that direction. That being said, I don't think this is commercial in nature. Primarily, I think

00:48:45.300 | what's going on is fundamentally ideological. You saw, for example, the New York Times, they ran out

00:48:50.760 | Barry Weiss, they've run out multiple editors. No, no, you're wrong on this. They did this

00:48:54.540 | because they wanted subscriptions. No, no, you're wrong,

00:48:57.320 | Sachs. When the New York Times did this, they realized Fox picked a side, MSNBC picked a side,

00:49:01.780 | and they they benefited from that by picking a side in the Trump era. So the New York Times picked

00:49:06.040 | a side, they went MSNBC side, and they got rid of the right because the right people drove away the

00:49:11.860 | anti Trump subscription. So I think freebirds right on this one, I will say another thing to

00:49:16.900 | build on what you were saying before Sachs about the media's responsibility here. We also have to

00:49:21.220 | think about the the cable news media's responsibility when they put these protests on wall

00:49:28.540 | to wall and they send people there. That then inspires people to vote. And that's what we're

00:49:31.760 | talking about. And that's what we're talking about. And that's what we're talking about. And

00:49:32.300 | that's what we're talking about. And that's what we're talking about. And that's what we're talking

00:49:32.840 | about. And that's what we're talking about. And that's what we're talking about. And that's what

00:49:33.380 | we're talking about. And that's what we're talking about. And that's what we're talking about. And

00:49:33.380 | you know, when you do this wall to wall coverage across five networks, and you obsess over

00:49:37.880 | something, people are going to obsess over it. And they see people out there writing, and people

00:49:42.140 | model other people's behavior. And I think they need to think like, how much coverage do we exactly

00:49:47.840 | have to give? Right? You know, even now, even now, they're bringing out the National Guard in

00:49:52.220 | anticipation of possibly riots and protests in reaction to do said, well, in reaction, no, I

00:49:57.920 | don't know if it's gonna induce it. But in reaction to this verdict in the Rittenhouse trial,

00:50:01.820 | they're bringing out the troops to basically quell any, you know, riot before it gets started. But

00:50:07.280 | why would that riot even happen? Because the people have been fed this narrative that is

00:50:12.440 | completely bogus. And in that sense, the media has been incredibly irresponsible. And they're

00:50:16.940 | playing with fire. They really are. I'll say it again. And we've fallen into this same trap. Look

00:50:21.920 | how much time we've just been talking about Kyle Rittenhouse. I mentioned the Maude Arbery. And

00:50:26.300 | we've just glossed over it.

00:50:27.900 | Is his trial being it's happening, right? No, no. But is it on video? Because that is another

00:50:33.180 | major issue here is when the trials are on video.

00:50:35.400 | These trials, they should never do TV again on these trials. Just never again. I mean,

00:50:39.780 | it really does create a courtroom but do not put it on TV.

00:50:42.600 | Like Veranos is not allowing video in the courtroom. And it's not getting covered to

00:50:47.940 | this extent. And I think the video courtroom does drive this.

00:50:50.640 | It makes it a circus.

00:50:51.540 | Breaking news, Citadel CEO Ken Griffin, outbid a group of crypto investors

00:50:57.880 | for a copy of the US Constitution, according to the Wall Street Journal.

00:51:00.580 | Oh my god.

00:51:01.540 | We knew somebody was trolling the crypto.

00:51:03.580 | He was a villain before this, but now, remember for Payment for Order Flow?

00:51:06.460 | Exactly.

00:51:07.000 | I mean, he was the central villain, basically, in that whole Robin Hood fiasco for Payment for

00:51:11.860 | Order Flow. And now he outbid the crypto crowd. He is going to be enemy number one.

00:51:16.000 | Basically, there is no more sophisticated market participant than Ken Griffin. And on a silver

00:51:21.820 | platter, this group of people, unfortunately, showed them their strategy and showed them exactly how to

00:51:27.860 | become the underpinner.

00:51:28.860 | He priced it right. He did the prices right. He put $1 on top of their bid.

00:51:31.940 | You know what Ken Griffin knows? Ken Griffin knows that now this is an object of interest

00:51:35.600 | that people are basically willing to pay anything for.

00:51:37.580 | Bingo.

00:51:38.000 | He's going to buy it now. And in one year, he'll sell it for twice as much. It's a valuable asset.

00:51:42.080 | But by the way, I want to make a point on this.

00:51:44.720 | I disagree, by the way. He's a buyer. He is not a seller.

00:51:47.900 | He's going to hold. Okay. But look, markets don't work with this much transparency. Markets only

00:51:53.420 | work when people have different information than other people that are participating in the market.

00:51:57.740 | Yeah.

00:51:57.840 | No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No. Same data.

00:52:00.720 | If everyone knew everything that everyone else was going to do. Same data, but if everyone knew what

00:52:03.720 | everyone else- Different opinions.

00:52:04.380 | Different opinions. But if everyone knew everyone else's opinion on what something is worth,

00:52:08.040 | the market doesn't work. And that's the problem that happened here.

00:52:10.440 | Opinion, yeah. Yeah. So here's what I value an asset at. And now, if you know that,

00:52:14.280 | you know how to play against me in the market. And I will point-

00:52:17.040 | That's what I said.

00:52:17.640 | Yeah, exactly. And one thing I'll take note of that I kind of realized yesterday when I was

00:52:23.100 | thinking about this, which is this like transparency in markets leads to this inflationary problem,

00:52:27.280 | why do you think everything that the government buys inflates? Because everyone already knows what

00:52:34.300 | the government is going to spend on that thing. When the government enters into a market like

00:52:38.560 | healthcare or education or defense, the amount that they're going to spend is published in a bill.

00:52:44.500 | And then Congress says, here's your authorized budget. Here's how much you're going to spend.

00:52:47.980 | So there is no natural market force that says a bid and an ask, what are you willing to pay?

00:52:52.840 | And is there a walkaway price? There is no walkaway price when the government is,

00:52:57.160 | is told to go spend some amount of money. And as a result, the price of everything inflates to

00:53:02.380 | that walkaway, to that price, to that budget. Can I build on that?

00:53:05.440 | It's- And by the way, that's, in my opinion,

00:53:08.020 | based on everything I've looked at, the primary reason for the increase in education costs,

00:53:12.220 | because the government funds all the student loans, the increase in healthcare, the increase

00:53:16.660 | in defense, all of it is because the government is the customer and they tell the person that's

00:53:21.580 | servicing them upfront, they tell the market what they're willing to pay. And so the market just

00:53:25.660 | inflates to that amount. Mm-hmm.

00:53:27.040 | And it's, uh, it's, it's really the reason why the way that we budget things and the government,

00:53:31.180 | as opposed to saying, look, this is the ROI metric, or this is the IRR metric you need to

00:53:36.100 | be shooting for with this government spending. It's all based on a fixed dollar amount of a

00:53:39.940 | budget that says, here's how much you should go spend.

00:53:41.560 | Well, look, it's, it's, as I said, it's, it's actually worse than that because then the

00:53:45.220 | procurement process is, is not, is the furthest thing from a free market where you essentially

00:53:50.080 | have these licensed people that are allowed to provide services. And so if you actually have

00:53:54.400 | the key critical input to making something possible,

00:53:56.920 | you have to get bundled in through contractors and subcontractors and general contractors

00:54:02.020 | who each take their five and 10%. And then that that's what you, that's when you have, like,

00:54:06.880 | you know, and, and their hourly costs all balloon, just a little bit, just a little bit,

00:54:10.480 | just a little bit. And suddenly the balloon cost of everything matches exactly the budget.

00:54:13.780 | So the perfect example of this is the space program. There was a,

00:54:17.140 | there was a, there was a rant by Bernie Sanders yesterday, basically saying,

00:54:21.340 | how could we have allowed Jeff Bezos, Mr. Bezos and Mr. Musk to basically

00:54:26.800 | take over our national space program? We need to take space program. We need to take it back.

00:54:32.260 | And then somebody hold on. And then somebody thought, I'll just give me the transcript.

00:54:38.440 | Somebody thoughtfully went back and actually looked because again, as David said, everything

00:54:42.640 | is transparently published. They went back and they actually counted how much money NASA spent

00:54:49.060 | in like the last seven or eight years. And the number was 360 odd billion. Yeah. And then they

00:54:55.960 | counted how much.

00:54:56.680 | Money, uh, SpaceX had spent. And it was, you know, if you counted revenue between seven and 11 billion.

00:55:03.100 | Totally.

00:55:03.700 | Totally.

00:55:04.240 | And so you have this incredible disparity, which speaks to this.

00:55:08.140 | This guy's senile.

00:55:09.100 | After the space shuttle, after the space shuttle was retired,

00:55:11.380 | NASA didn't even have a way to get to space until SpaceX had the rockets. I mean.

00:55:15.460 | Uh, and think about how many people died on the space shuttle.

00:55:17.980 | Guys, what Bernie is saying, which is what's, I think scary to me is if you

00:55:21.040 | take the difference between 360 billion and seven, so 300 and, you know, 53 billion

00:55:26.560 | dollars and divided by the number of people in the United States, you're basically talking about

00:55:31.300 | a thousand per thousand dollars a person. Would you and I sit around a table and give Bernie

00:55:38.260 | Sanders a thousand dollars out of our own pocket? Oh no.

00:55:41.200 | To go and basically implement of, uh, a half-ass space program. No, I'd rather,

00:55:46.480 | I'd rather give Elon Musk 10 cents, which or one cent, which is the equivalent alternative or a

00:55:52.540 | penny. This raises a really serious issue, which is who is the better capital allocator?

00:55:56.440 | Of private market society, private markets or the government. And let me give you an example.

00:56:00.580 | So today the house is voting out that reconciliation bill. They've got it.

00:56:05.080 | They're spending 2.1 trillion. This is one example. Does one example that caught my eye

00:56:10.120 | is they've got $2.5 billion going to tree equity, whatever that is.

00:56:15.580 | I'm sorry. Tree equity, tree equity. This is like tree equity. I think it might mean that like some

00:56:22.720 | communities have more trees. I think it means that some, some communities have more

00:56:26.320 | trees and others, they gotta rectify that. I don't know. I mean, this is like the jump,

00:56:29.620 | the shark moment for the word equity, because I think now everything is equity, but, but you know,

00:56:34.900 | what, what struck me about this $2.5 billion number. Okay. Is that like craft ventures,

00:56:39.760 | which I've been doing for the last four years, we've raised and we'll be deploying a total of

00:56:44.620 | about 2 billion over call it five years into hundreds of startups that, you know, will pave

00:56:50.020 | the way for the next generation of the economy. So 2 billion versus two and a half billion as one line

00:56:56.200 | that's just a footnote. That's an asterisk in this bill. I mean, what is the better capital

00:57:01.120 | allocation decision? And what people have to understand is, you know, all this money that

00:57:06.160 | gets spent gets sucked out of the private economy somehow. It either, you know, comes from taxes or

00:57:12.460 | gets added to the, the national debt, but either way it comes out of the private economy and

00:57:18.760 | resources that could be allocated to the next generation of, of innovative companies.

00:57:23.680 | All right. Let's play the clip. And to be squandering the money like

00:57:26.080 | that on all these programs that no one even knows what they do. Uh, when we're almost 30 trillion in

00:57:33.760 | debt is just unbelievable. Okay. The 1% are going to be going to space and taking away the moon from

00:57:40.660 | the other 99% here, roll the clip. Unbelievably, this bill would provide and authorize some $10

00:57:48.340 | billion in taxpayer money to Jeff Bezos, the second wealthiest person in America.

00:57:55.960 | For his space race with Elon Musk, the wealthiest person in America. This is beyond laughable. And I

00:58:05.740 | will be introducing an amendment to strike this provision. Frankly, it is not acceptable. It's

00:58:12.880 | not an issue that we have discussed terribly much, but it is not acceptable that the two wealthiest

00:58:18.460 | people in this country, Mr. Musk and Mr. Bezos take control of our space efforts to return to the moon

00:58:25.840 | and maybe even the extraordinary accomplishment of getting to the moon. This is not something for

00:58:32.140 | two billionaires to be directing. This is something for the American people to be determining.

00:58:39.160 | Yeah. All the people have to be able to go to the moon before two people can go to the moon.

00:58:42.580 | Is that the idea? Yeah. If there was a go to the moon Dow, it would get more fucking good callback.

00:58:48.040 | Look at you with the callbacks, Freiberg. You're learning how to entertain the audience.

00:58:51.220 | Can you imagine people would just plow money into a go to the moon Dow and give it all to Elon Musk.

00:58:55.180 | It'd be so.

00:58:55.720 | More people would do that than would vote to support the Senate bill.

00:58:58.600 | Additionally, I would like to report that Starlink does not work at my Lake house and

00:59:03.880 | Amazon prime takes three to four days at my beach house on the Cape and that these two companies are

00:59:09.040 | oppressing the 3% of the top 3%, which I am not part of the 1%.

00:59:13.540 | And some people don't have enough trees.

00:59:16.660 | And we need trees in my community. There's only small trees and we want the Redwoods from San

00:59:23.620 | Francisco. Why do they or the hippies?

00:59:25.600 | The Redwoods that are much taller.

00:59:27.160 | Do you guys remember one of our very earliest pods? I made a statement which is

00:59:32.200 | equity is this danger word that the progressive left uses to steal power.

00:59:37.360 | Yes.

00:59:37.720 | That we should feel unsafe.

00:59:39.280 | We should always want equality, but not equity because equity is zero sum, right? You know,

00:59:45.220 | a cap table. Once you give somebody else equity, it's dilutive to everybody else,

00:59:49.060 | but equality is infinite. You can have unbounded equality.

00:59:52.780 | Yes.

00:59:53.260 | And when I hear these guys talk about this stuff, it's

00:59:55.480 | so scary. The second thing is I'm a little confused by what Bernie's saying, because on

00:59:59.560 | the one hand, he wants to cancel the American government's effective, you know, support of these

01:00:05.920 | programs. On the other hand, he wants us to take back the responsibility for it. But I think he

01:00:13.360 | must realize that it would cost 50 times more or a hundred times more.

01:00:18.460 | He's not spending sensitive in case you haven't noticed.

01:00:22.360 | I also think this is like virtue signaling. Like,

01:00:25.120 | he was attacking Bezos about like minimum wage and then Bezos came over the top and like doubled

01:00:30.280 | it and then gave people college education. That was Bernie Sanders platform for president was like,

01:00:34.480 | give people free college and give people like a better $15 minimum wage.

01:00:38.260 | Bezos has done more for Bernie's platform than anybody. He should be thanking. He should be

01:00:44.080 | telling people all companies should be asking like Amazon.

01:00:46.960 | No, no, no. But also actually to your point, can I build on that? Amazon is now doing more

01:00:51.280 | to actually unwind duopolies and monopolies.

01:00:55.000 | markets than the government and the FTC is, you know, see this thing that Amazon is now doing in

01:01:00.520 | the UK with visa, where they basically shut visa off. And people are speculating now that it's a

01:01:07.540 | step in this direction of Amazon, you know, in Amazon domestically in the United States,

01:01:10.960 | they just did this big deal with a firm. And so they are looking at and they there's a rumor

01:01:16.720 | that they may switch the Amazon credit card off of visa rails and put them on MasterCard rails.

01:01:21.160 | But there's another example, Jason, to your point of like, you know,

01:01:24.640 | Bernie and the left progressive left would probably rail against the duopoly practices

01:01:29.560 | of visa and MasterCard. They can't get anything done. Jeff Bezos has actually done more now,

01:01:35.200 | presses a button and has done more now.

01:01:37.420 | Here's another one to build on yours. Who's doing I mean, Bernie Sanders cares about global warming.

01:01:42.220 | It's like one of his key issues who's donated more to global warning than Jeff Bezos. Nobody,

01:01:47.260 | nobody who's doing 100,000 electric vehicles for his delivery fleet. Jeff Bezos, Jeff Bezos took

01:01:53.440 | a Bernie Sanders platform that he failed to get into office on and he made it Amazon's platform.

01:01:58.180 | Here's a third example, Nick, you tweeted this out, Nick, or you can find this thing that I

01:02:02.020 | tweeted out, but it was a little meme. And it was it was, it was basically Toby Maguire and

01:02:08.320 | Kristen Dunst, right? There's a meme upside down quit. No, they're looking at each other. And

01:02:13.840 | basically, the joke is like, you know, every time you protested at, you know, to shut down

01:02:18.400 | a nuclear plant, the resulting effect 40 years later was another 100 megatons of CO2,

01:02:23.080 | was put into the air. And it just goes to yet again, another example of we virtue signal nuclear

01:02:29.680 | reactors and nuclear power, we go and we get them all shut down, it turned out that we ingested or

01:02:34.840 | we we put out as a result, an enormous amount of more CO2 than had to be put. And then and now,

01:02:40.540 | who's helping to step in and solve it another private citizen Bill Gates,

01:02:43.780 | like everyone for these private companies, we couldn't even get astronauts to space anymore.

01:02:47.140 | Impossible. I mean, like the government has actually lost the capacity to do that.

01:02:50.860 | Impossible. It would it would have been impossible.

01:02:52.720 | It would have been impossible. And who are we up against for space? I mean,

01:02:56.680 | China, Russia, China, just China.

01:03:00.220 | It's such a dichotomy between and this is like a recurring theme of the show between what the

01:03:07.060 | private sector and specifically and not like the fortune 500, not those old stodgy companies are in

01:03:12.880 | the process of being disrupted, but what the sort of entrepreneurial economy is able to accomplish

01:03:17.860 | versus like how stultified and calcified.

01:03:22.360 | And incompetent the government's become.

01:03:25.300 | I mean, to your point, Freeberg, I think Sam Altman led this, the fusion energy startup

01:03:34.180 | helium like $500 million round. I mean, by the time these nitwits, you know, in these political

01:03:41.200 | office figure these things out, we're gonna have fusion reactors, aren't we?

01:03:44.320 | Is that real science? Is that coming close? What do you think, Ruber?

01:03:49.300 | I mean, Bill Gates just did this.

01:03:51.580 | He's got a what's it called TerraPower announcement this week. He's got a company

01:03:56.740 | that he's been funding for years and they're building a 500 megawatt fusion plant in

01:04:03.520 | Wyoming, I think.

01:04:07.060 | Yeah, in Wyoming. Yes.

01:04:08.500 | In Wyoming. And he got 2 billion from the government and 2 billion that was funded by

01:04:13.540 | the company and its shareholders, which I think is majority owned by Bill Gates.

01:04:17.860 | But it certainly feels and seems to me, I mean, look, this one, like we've said,

01:04:21.880 | a lot of these infrastructure deals, these big infrastructure deals for things like

01:04:25.600 | power and next gen manufacturing and whatnot could benefit from the boost of government subsidies or

01:04:33.940 | government shared costs to get these things off the ground. Over time, as you get scale and

01:04:38.560 | reproducibility of them, the cost per unit comes way, way, way, way down. And so it seems to be the

01:04:44.740 | case that there are enough of these programs. I think I know of at least half of them are going to be used.

01:04:45.660 | a dozen nuclear power companies that are in advanced stages of doing

01:04:52.920 | first installation design right now. And so it seems like this is going to be a reality. I think

01:04:59.160 | it would be an incredible boom to clean energy in the United States and globally if we can get more

01:05:04.920 | of these built. I mean, what was the staff? China's building 150 nuclear power plants.

01:05:08.400 | Yeah.

01:05:08.880 | They've commissioned 150 nuclear power plants. I mean, it's a no-brainer that that's what we need

01:05:13.320 | in the 21st century. It's the best renewable

01:05:15.600 | source. Very small footprint, very reliable, can run 24/7. Doesn't depend on some, you know,

01:05:22.800 | sun or wind or what have you. So you can plug it into a grid.

01:05:25.500 | So the government literally does not need to get involved in this, aside from writing a check and

01:05:29.700 | chopping it up 50/50, split the pot with Bill Gates.

01:05:32.700 | I think there's an important role that the government can and should play here,

01:05:35.340 | which is, you know, if we want to talk about what infrastructure this country needs,

01:05:38.460 | I've said it on the last couple of shows, we don't need yesteryear's infrastructure.

01:05:41.580 | We don't need last century's infrastructure, new bridges and, you know, toll bridges,

01:05:45.540 | or whatever nonsense is, you know, going to get inflated as a result of this recent infrastructure.

01:05:50.400 | But what we need is next-gen infrastructure and not charging stations because the free

01:05:54.360 | market's already there doing that. And, you know, not internet because the free market's already

01:05:58.380 | there giving everyone internet. We see a thousand examples of that. What we need is the stuff that

01:06:02.100 | the free market cannot afford to fund and stand up, like next-gen nuclear power stations,

01:06:06.540 | like biomanufacturing, like large-scale on-demand 3D printing systems. These are

01:06:11.040 | the sorts of infrastructure programs that the United States and our workforce could benefit

01:06:15.480 | from government subsidies to help the private force, the private markets get stood up.

01:06:19.620 | And as these things get stood up and the flywheel gets going and cash starts getting generated,

01:06:23.940 | they can self-fund and they can grow and they can install more of these and the costs come down for

01:06:27.660 | the next one. The things where the government is the only customer, the only person buying,

01:06:31.800 | the cost will only go up on over time. Whereas the things that the private market is building,

01:06:36.000 | the cost will go down over time. And in some of these cases where there's a big kind of hurdle to

01:06:40.140 | get over the first build or the first build cycle, you know, the government has an important role to

01:06:44.640 | play, I think.

01:06:45.420 | And so, you know, look, I mean, it's clearly not going to happen with this current infrastructure

01:06:50.160 | build. There's a few nuggets in there that might be useful and helpful. But generally speaking,

01:06:54.660 | you're right. I mean, over time, we want the cost of things to come down, not go up. And so we need

01:06:59.100 | the private market to play a critical role in being the majority driver, you know, of these

01:07:04.080 | kind of systems. All right. Seems like a good place to end. Pete Davidson is now dating Kim

01:07:10.500 | Kardashian. How jealous are you, Chamath? I'm not jealous. What are you talking about?

01:07:15.360 | Great. I agree. I am. I am shocked that Pete Davidson has dated some of the most incredibly

01:07:21.300 | famous, popular women. Oh, so you are jealous. Okay. Well, I'm a little curious. I gotta say,

01:07:28.200 | I'm a little curious. I mean, if you put a picture of Pete Dav-- I mean, there's got to

01:07:31.080 | be something happening there. Let's just put it out there. He's got the Kevorka. I'm going

01:07:34.500 | to send you a link to an article. I don't know what Kevorka is. I'm googling. Remember that from

01:07:38.340 | Seinfeld, where Kramer was like, you know, dating all these beautiful women, and it's because he

01:07:42.900 | explained he had the Kevorka. He's got a better finishing move. Yeah. This is an article that went

01:07:47.160 | viral this week. Emily Ratajkowski, how do you pronounce her name? Yeah. Yeah. Breaks down why

01:07:52.980 | women find Pete Davidson so attractive. And so, this was like, you know, I saw it all over Twitter

01:07:58.200 | this week, but it was all about, you know, the-- And what is the answer? Just give me the

01:08:01.680 | headlines. I don't know. It's some-- He's got super charming. He's vulnerable. He's lovely.

01:08:08.040 | His fingernail polish is awesome. He looks good. He has a good relationship with his

01:08:12.840 | mom. I mean, I just think he comes across as a good guy might be the appeal.

01:08:16.560 | Also, they want to take care of him, I think, because he's got, like, his dad died--

01:08:21.720 | I think you guys are missing a more subtle, non-obvious point.

01:08:25.020 | I don't know what you're talking about, Chamath. Do explain. Maybe you could expand--

01:08:30.900 | I'm just guessing. It's a family show, Chamath. It's a family show.

01:08:34.440 | Oh, my God. Yeah. No, I think they want to take care of him. That's what I heard from a woman,

01:08:39.000 | said they want to, like, nurture him and take care of him.

01:08:41.820 | Rock on. Rock on.

01:08:42.780 | I mean, also, Kim Kardashian, I think, you know, she just got the Gen Z. I think she was probably

01:08:49.620 | going the way of Paris Hilton, like, maybe aging out of her, you know, celebrity. And now she went

01:08:56.940 | Kanye, kind of Gen X, right? And now she's going down to Gen Z. She's got a whole new-- I hate to

01:09:02.880 | be cynical about it, but-- I also, you know--

01:09:05.340 | This feels like PR to me.

01:09:06.300 | I'm going to take so much flack for saying this, but I was a little short Donda, but I've listened to

01:09:12.720 | Donda now a couple times, and my God.

01:09:14.760 | Is it good?

01:09:15.660 | It's pretty fucking good. I mean, Kanye West is one of-- legitimately one of the most incredible

01:09:21.360 | artists of all time. I mean, the way his mind works--

01:09:25.200 | I agree with that.

01:09:25.680 | The music, the beats, it's outrageous. I think if you give Donda, like, two or three shots,

01:09:30.660 | it's really amazing.

01:09:32.700 | I always did some late registration, college dropout, and 808 and heartbreaks.

01:09:36.420 | I--

01:09:37.200 | Amazing. My dark twisted fantasy was probably one of the best albums ever created.

01:09:40.380 | Well, see, that's the thing is, I think--

01:09:41.460 | Ridiculous.

01:09:41.840 | --with his later work, I think--

01:09:42.660 | I think his later work, like, I didn't get into my beautiful dark twisted fantasy until I had

01:09:46.020 | listened to it 10 times.

01:09:46.740 | Amazing. Amazing.

01:09:47.160 | And then I was like, "Okay, I get it."

01:09:48.300 | Amazing, yeah. And I feel like--

01:09:49.260 | The early stuff is so accessible, like, dropout and registration.

01:09:52.200 | So accessible, yeah. But Donda is just perfect.

01:09:53.340 | Those are pretty incredible. I mean, it's--

01:09:54.420 | Right now, David Sachs is like, "What are you guys talking about? I haven't listened to any

01:09:57.720 | of this." David, do you know--

01:09:59.640 | He's like, "Is that like Paul Anka?"

01:10:01.320 | David's like, "Yeah. Wow."

01:10:04.320 | Sachs, do you listen to music? Actually, this is a good question.

01:10:06.840 | Yeah, Sachs, what's your favorite artist? What's your favorite band?

01:10:08.700 | Like, if we found-- Like, if we listened to, like, your workout tracks, so like on your--

01:10:12.960 | Like on--

01:10:14.460 | Barry Manilow?

01:10:15.240 | Like, Apple. Like, what are you listening to? Like, Spotify. Like, what are you listening to?

01:10:19.320 | Tucker Carlson?

01:10:19.920 | No, music-wise.

01:10:21.720 | I don't listen to music when I work out.

01:10:22.980 | What? So Tucker--

01:10:24.900 | The only time I really listen to music is when I'm like in a car or on a plane or whatever.

01:10:29.640 | But do you have music, for example, like downloaded on your phone? Like,

01:10:32.760 | if he said, "Pull out your phone." Huh?

01:10:34.320 | Yeah, I do.

01:10:34.920 | Can you just give a couple names here?

01:10:37.200 | Top three, yeah.

01:10:37.980 | Honestly,

01:10:38.640 | it's gonna be recent hits because I just downloaded what my kids told me to download.

01:10:42.180 | I understand.

01:10:43.140 | That's where I get it from.

01:10:43.980 | Just give me a couple albums that you've downloaded.

01:10:46.020 | Okay, so, hold on. Where's-- Recently added. Okay. So,

01:10:51.120 | it looks to me like I recently added Khalid.

01:10:54.180 | Yes.

01:10:55.500 | Okay.

01:10:56.280 | Good.

01:10:57.060 | There's a Gaga song, Kid Laroi, and Miley Cyrus.

01:11:02.640 | Okay.

01:11:03.060 | Okay.

01:11:03.780 | Kid Laroi and Justin Bieber.

01:11:05.220 | Great.

01:11:05.820 | Doja Cat. My kids love Doja Cat.

01:11:07.980 | She's great.

01:11:08.580 | She's great.

01:11:09.360 | TikTok queen. Yeah.

01:11:10.560 | See, my kids keep me current. You know, you think I'm like--

01:11:12.960 | She's great.

01:11:13.560 | Here's what I'm doing for my kids. This is my new parenting strategy.

01:11:16.680 | I was let-- They love listening to the 80s playlist on Spotify,

01:11:20.820 | but now I was like, "Who are like great seminal artists?" So, I have them doing Tom Petty,

01:11:25.020 | David Bowie, Talking Heads, and Bob Marley. And I get the whole Greatest Hits album,

01:11:30.180 | and I explain to them every song, and they're like totally getting into it.

01:11:33.600 | So, basically--

01:11:34.080 | I want them to actually know what great music is.

01:11:35.880 | You're being self-indulgent. You're focused on yourself, and you're--

01:11:38.520 | You're trying to make them a loser.

01:11:39.780 | No, I'm trying to get them to understand what actual music--

01:11:42.960 | Really, bro. Great music.

01:11:43.620 | You want your kids to walk into school, and when somebody else is like, "Hey,

01:11:46.200 | do you like Doja Cat?" They're like, "No, but have you listened to Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers?"

01:11:49.500 | I've been doing that. I've been playing my kids my favorite artists,

01:11:52.860 | and they-- And he's become their favorite artist. Apex Twin. You guys don't know who he is.

01:11:56.460 | Yeah, Apex Twin.

01:11:57.180 | Yeah, yeah.

01:11:57.720 | Apex Twin has this great album called the Richard D. James album.

01:12:01.500 | Richard D. James album is probably one of the best albums of all time. And I play it,

01:12:05.400 | and my kids go frigging nuts for it now, and they ask for it nonstop. And I'm like,

01:12:08.460 | "Oh my God, I love you. You're my kids." It's the best.

01:12:10.680 | I try to get my kids into my favorite movies,

01:12:14.640 | and that's just too hard because movies were-- Say hi, everybody.

01:12:18.060 | They were too slow about this.

01:12:19.380 | Yeah, so did Gene.

01:12:19.980 | Yeah.

01:12:20.220 | If you have kids to watch movies, it's hard. They want to watch--

01:12:22.980 | It's hard.

01:12:23.280 | Yeah.

01:12:23.700 | Yeah.

01:12:23.940 | No, they can't watch movies. They're too slow.

01:12:26.220 | They can't watch movies.

01:12:26.940 | They can only watch a Marvel movie. They can't even watch the original Star Wars or Raiders of

01:12:30.720 | Lost Ark.

01:12:31.140 | Totally.

01:12:31.500 | Anything where the scene doesn't cut every one and a half seconds, they can't watch. It's crazy.

01:12:34.860 | I was like, "Raiders of Lost Ark, you're gonna love this." They're like, "This is so boring." I'm like,

01:12:38.400 | Raiders of the Lost Ark, Temple of Doom are boring?

01:12:41.240 | Isn't that crazy?

01:12:42.400 | -It's terrible.

01:12:43.180 | Well, the first act is character development.

01:12:45.380 | They wanna cut the first act.

01:12:46.740 | Have you guys watched--

01:12:47.780 | Jaws, if you've watched Jaws, it would be like unwatchable.

01:12:50.120 | But I remember as a kid watching it.

01:12:51.740 | She loved it.

01:12:52.780 | Did you guys ever watch like AMC,

01:12:54.840 | and you watch the old-school movies of the '30s and '40s?

01:12:57.720 | They are impossible to watch.

01:12:59.420 | They are so-- it's like watching a play.

01:13:01.780 | Exactly.

01:13:02.880 | It's gotten more and more kind of short form

01:13:05.880 | as we've kind of aged.

01:13:07.140 | Yeah.

01:13:07.800 | That's like, oh no, what happened?

01:13:09.300 | Oh, quesadilla.

01:13:10.640 | Aki-- Aki.

01:13:13.080 | Trolling a biscuit, and Aki just came and took it from him.

01:13:15.640 | Aki, not the good Aki.

01:13:17.340 | You don't take a biscuit.

01:13:18.540 | Aki, you eat a dog food.

01:13:20.200 | You don't eat a biscuit?

01:13:21.900 | Bad Aki.

01:13:22.640 | You know, those biscuits are cashmere.

01:13:24.140 | They're really expensive.

01:13:25.140 | All right, I'm gonna go get my booster shot.

01:13:26.940 | I'll see you guys later.

01:13:27.740 | All right, everybody.

01:13:28.640 | This has been another exciting, amazing episode

01:13:31.740 | of the All In Podcast for--

01:13:33.820 | I'm gonna get Sergio cookies.

01:13:35.700 | --for--

01:13:37.020 | The Dictator.

01:13:37.980 | Hi, Nat.

01:13:38.480 | Shamath Palihapitiya and the Sultan of Science,

01:13:41.880 | David Freeburg.

01:13:42.600 | We'll see you all next time.

01:13:44.880 | Sexy Poo, have a wonderful time with Suarez.

01:13:46.740 | He came by last night.

01:13:47.820 | Oh, yeah.

01:13:48.320 | I'm hosting Miami Mayor Francis Suarez tonight.

01:13:51.420 | We're doing a cocktail reception fundraiser for him.

01:13:54.080 | Hung out with him last night.

01:13:54.800 | And we got huge turnout.

01:13:55.860 | I mean, I tweeted this thing.

01:13:57.420 | And we're going to have, I think,

01:13:59.760 | at least 60 people at the reception,

01:14:01.580 | at least 20 people for dinner.

01:14:03.260 | You have security.

01:14:04.380 | You're letting randos in your house from Twitter?

01:14:06.900 | Security.

01:14:07.800 | Oh, they have to pay five dimes.

01:14:09.420 | Yeah, they have to pay.

01:14:10.920 | But also, we kind of check everybody out.

01:14:13.200 | One of your enemies will pay five dimes just

01:14:15.680 | to get in your house.

01:14:16.500 | I think basically BuzzFeed paid to get in there.

01:14:19.120 | I'd be careful.

01:14:19.660 | We have to know who they are.

01:14:21.080 | We vet them.

01:14:21.620 | Background checks.

01:14:22.120 | There's a lot of people--

01:14:22.860 | I mean, look, if we wanted to let everybody in,

01:14:24.440 | there were at least 100 people who

01:14:25.960 | replied to my tweet saying, I can't DM you, but I want to go.

01:14:30.900 | And--

01:14:31.400 | Open your DMs for a day.

01:14:33.600 | Oh, you can do that?

01:14:34.620 | Yeah.

01:14:35.340 | Francis came by yesterday with his team.

01:14:36.780 | He was in top form.

01:14:37.740 | He looks great.

01:14:39.000 | He's excited about the next term.

01:14:40.960 | All right, we'll see you all next time.

01:14:42.380 | Bye bye.

01:14:42.880 | I'm going all in.

01:14:44.460 | We'll let your winners ride.

01:14:47.340 | Rain Man, David Sack.

01:14:48.620 | I'm going all in.

01:14:51.620 | And it said--

01:14:52.280 | We open sourced it to the fans, and they've just

01:14:54.460 | gone crazy with it.

01:14:55.740 | Love you, Besties.

01:14:56.540 | I'm the queen of kinwa.

01:14:57.740 | I'm going all in.

01:14:59.160 | Let your winners ride.

01:15:00.700 | Let your winners ride.

01:15:02.960 | I'm going all in.

01:15:04.540 | Besties are gone.

01:15:06.660 | That's my dog taking a ride.

01:15:08.900 | What do you say?

01:15:09.900 | Oh, man.

01:15:12.900 | My haberdasher will meet me at--

01:15:14.900 | We should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy

01:15:17.820 | because they're all just useless.

01:15:19.040 | It's like this sexual tension that they just

01:15:20.980 | need to release somehow.

01:15:22.980 | Wet your feet.

01:15:24.980 | Wet your feet.

01:15:25.980 | Wet your feet.

01:15:26.980 | We need to get merch.

01:15:28.980 | Besties are back.

01:15:29.980 | I'm going all in.

01:15:30.980 | I'm going all in.

01:15:31.980 | I'm going all in.

01:15:33.980 | I'm going all in.

01:15:36.980 | I'm going all in.

01:15:39.660 | you

E56: Constitution DAO, Rittenhouse trial coverage, private sector efficiency vs the government

Chapters