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Does “Monk Mode” Actually Work? - How To Achieve Deep Work & Get Ahead | Cal Newport


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0:0 Studying art
1:50 Cal's general definition of note taking
6:30 Building complicated systems
10:50 Learning as a college student
15:0 Active recall

Whisper Transcript | Transcript Only Page

00:00:00.000 | I've seen a lot of people talk about monk mode.
00:00:03.240 | Does this actually work?
00:00:06.160 | Monk mode meaning you sort of, I first heard this from Greg McKeown where he like I'm disappearing.
00:00:12.720 | I'm going to like a shed for a month and all I'm doing is writing.
00:00:17.040 | Adam Grant.
00:00:18.140 | So I wrote about this in deep work.
00:00:19.960 | I called it the monastic mode of deep work.
00:00:24.440 | Or maybe called the bimodal mode.
00:00:25.880 | I confused these up, but I was thinking about Adam Grant where he would have periods of
00:00:29.960 | the year where he would just disappear to work on research, be out of touch and other
00:00:33.560 | periods where he was back.
00:00:35.560 | So monk mode I guess is spreading online again.
00:00:39.040 | I think you might have the same take on this as I do, which is it's less about monk mode
00:00:46.440 | working to me than it is the way the hyperactive hive mind constantly context switching that
00:00:53.160 | we call normal work today, how bad that is.
00:00:55.720 | Like monk mode is just escaping from that.
00:00:58.720 | So like me and you, I know neither of us disappear to cabins for six months the right.
00:01:05.080 | But I think we're just much more careful in general in making our day-to-day work something
00:01:10.540 | that we don't have to escape so dramatically from.
00:01:13.400 | Trying to just in general see, I don't want to just constantly be context switching between
00:01:17.840 | a lot of things.
00:01:19.240 | So we don't have as much to escape from.
00:01:22.600 | I don't know.
00:01:23.600 | What do you say?
00:01:24.600 | You don't escape to a cabin, right?
00:01:25.600 | I think of you as being pretty careful about how you work.
00:01:28.920 | Yeah.
00:01:29.920 | I mean, I think, so again, I think I don't place so much emphasis on the retreat into
00:01:36.280 | the wilderness.
00:01:37.280 | Not that that's always bad, but just to me, sometimes that can also be a little bit of
00:01:42.480 | a fantasy distracting from what the real problem is.
00:01:44.960 | Like, well, the problem is that I'm in this physical location, like sometimes, but usually
00:01:48.640 | the problem is in your head, right?
00:01:50.360 | Usually the problem is not like, well, that you couldn't do any deep work here, but that
00:01:54.720 | it's hard and it's like easier to like open your phone and do that kind of thing.
00:01:58.040 | And so I do think it's not necessarily monk mode, but one thing that I noticed, especially
00:02:02.400 | when I embark on like bigger, cognitively challenging projects, and maybe you can attest
00:02:06.280 | to this Cal, is that, you know, right now, for instance, I am in the kind of promotional
00:02:11.720 | mode for my books.
00:02:12.720 | I'm like emailing every old friend and being like, hey, you know, like I've got a new book.
00:02:16.200 | Can I send it to you?
00:02:17.280 | And it's, it is like a hive mind kind of thing.
00:02:19.040 | I open my email and there's lots of little communications and like, who do I have to
00:02:21.920 | message?
00:02:22.920 | You know, it's very extroverted, socially focused, this kind of thing.
00:02:26.880 | But when I'm writing the book, I find that the challenge is that, okay, I've got like
00:02:30.920 | this 30 page dense paper to read that I think is important for me to read, but it's a little
00:02:36.400 | boring.
00:02:37.400 | You know, it's not like this is, this isn't a Harry Potter book or something like, you
00:02:40.600 | know, murder mystery novel or something like, I'm not just churning through the pages.
00:02:43.360 | I'm like, wait, what's that word?
00:02:45.280 | And I'm going to look up keywords and like, oh, maybe this citation, this kind of thing.
00:02:48.760 | And so I think the real challenge that we have in doing, you know, work that, that requires
00:02:54.200 | cognitive demands is that you're sitting and maybe you want to like read for three hours
00:02:59.120 | straight.
00:03:00.120 | But after like 15 minutes, your brain is telling you, you know what, maybe go on Twitter, maybe,
00:03:04.720 | maybe check that email inbox.
00:03:05.720 | Maybe there's some distraction that would be like a, like a break from doing this kind
00:03:09.660 | of work.
00:03:10.660 | And so I think what, what this kind of monk mode or something akin to that can be helpful
00:03:16.000 | for is that you have to sort of shift yourself into a mode where you are getting used to
00:03:21.000 | doing that kind of work.
00:03:22.280 | It's a little bit like training for a marathon.
00:03:23.860 | Like if you don't run ever and then you run for 20 minutes, your lungs are screaming,
00:03:28.040 | your body's tired.
00:03:29.040 | It's like, okay, I've got to stop.
00:03:31.040 | I don't think that past a certain point, it's so much that your physical fitness is increasing.
00:03:35.200 | It's just, you're learning to switch off that part of your brain.
00:03:37.600 | That's like, do something else, do something else, do something else.
00:03:40.160 | And so I think when you get into this or like, I need to do a lot of deep work mode, I think
00:03:44.280 | it is helpful to kind of create some constraints around your work so that you're prioritizing
00:03:49.040 | this deep work.
00:03:50.040 | You're able to get longer stretches in, you're able to just like, okay, I just sat and I
00:03:53.360 | read all day and it wasn't like agony that does take a little bit of building up to get
00:03:58.760 | And so I think, you know, that that's where this can be helpful is if like, if you're
00:04:01.960 | in the cabin in the woods, you don't have the friends, this kind of thing, maybe it's
00:04:05.040 | sometimes easier to, to, to transition to doing that.
00:04:08.260 | But I think the transition to doing that is, is what's really important.
00:04:11.080 | I love the practice message.
00:04:12.360 | Yeah.
00:04:13.360 | I love what you're saying, right?
00:04:14.360 | So what supports it?
00:04:15.360 | I'm in slow productivity.
00:04:16.360 | I talk about rituals and location, have a separate location where you do the monk mode
00:04:20.400 | work.
00:04:21.400 | It doesn't have to be a dramatically different location, but it's okay.
00:04:24.400 | Instead of being at the home office desk, I go to the screened in porch, you know, but
00:04:28.360 | it's a place that I only associate and then have rituals.
00:04:30.620 | You know, I go for a walk, I make a certain amount of tea that helps, but I love this
00:04:33.800 | idea.
00:04:34.900 | The more you practice, the better you get.
00:04:36.920 | This is connected to your book though, right, Scott, because what is all the, the, the key
00:04:41.480 | efforts in mastery that you talk about are efforts that require sustained concentration.
00:04:47.340 | And that's something you have to be, you get used to, right?
00:04:49.280 | Like the more used to your, like, I just do this on a regular basis.
00:04:53.240 | There's periods of my day where I'm just locked in on something and I'm not distracted and
00:04:56.840 | it's kind of hard.
00:04:57.840 | I mean, I talk about this in deep work, right?
00:05:00.160 | The the more comfortable you are with that, the more comfortable you'll be with learning
00:05:03.760 | something hard.
00:05:04.760 | It's the same basic cognitive muscles are, are being stretched.
00:05:08.740 | So I'm assuming that you would, you would see the same problem where if I live a full
00:05:12.720 | Linda stone, partial continuous attention lifestyle, I'm just constantly moving back
00:05:16.740 | and forth.
00:05:17.740 | I'm not very comfortable focusing.
00:05:19.800 | If I then say, you know what I'm going to do is I'm going to start learning something
00:05:23.340 | really hard.
00:05:25.160 | I'm going to struggle in just the sense that my mind is not used to the feeling of cognitive
00:05:30.380 | strain that is going to be involved in learning something hard.
00:05:34.480 | Yeah.
00:05:35.480 | I mean, I think, so one of the things that I find important in this regard is, uh, when
00:05:41.500 | you, when you're approaching this kind of task, it is helpful to like be more deliberate
00:05:46.180 | about, you know, we do this in our course life of focus where you are being very explicit
00:05:51.300 | about like, these are my deep work hours.
00:05:52.980 | You put the computer away, but you kind of remove yourself physically from those distractions.
00:05:57.100 | It doesn't have to be a different location, but it can just be some way that you're pushing
00:06:00.700 | them away because I think as you build the skill, the way I think of it is it's, it's
00:06:05.220 | a little bit like, um, you know, it gets thrown around too much, but like addiction and this
00:06:09.740 | motivational hardwiring is very similar that, you know, if you were a gambling addict and
00:06:14.180 | you're like, Oh, I'm going to go like live right next to the casino, it would be very
00:06:17.980 | difficult when you're in the habit of going to the slot machines all the time to resist
00:06:21.780 | that.
00:06:22.780 | So you might want to get yourself removed from it.
00:06:23.920 | Don't have any reminders.
00:06:24.980 | Don't have any things that's going to make you think about doing this, but then maybe
00:06:27.820 | once you've done it more and more, it would be fine.
00:06:30.100 | Okay.
00:06:31.100 | I just don't gamble.
00:06:32.100 | I don't think about that.
00:06:33.100 | I don't want to go through Las Vegas and not feel as much temptation.
00:06:35.540 | And so similarly with deep work, I think some of the difficulty is that if you're not used
00:06:40.460 | to the sustained cognitive effort, maybe because it's a new role, new task, new project, this
00:06:44.980 | kind of thing, like it can be exhausting, but it's also what is exhausting about it
00:06:48.980 | is your kind of your motivational hardwiring being like, this is easier, this is more fun,
00:06:53.500 | this is more appealing and that actually you can, that will quiet down if you can stick
00:06:58.620 | to it.
00:06:59.620 | And so that's sort of that, that transition can be hard, I think, for people.
00:07:02.900 | And you have to believe that that's going to happen.
00:07:04.820 | That after you do it for three months, oh, actually sitting and reading for four hours
00:07:08.340 | straight is doable by a normal person.
00:07:10.540 | You don't have to be some kind of like savant-like focused person to do it.
00:07:14.740 | I like that.
00:07:15.740 | Shrink monk mode.
00:07:16.740 | Monk mode doesn't have to be this month.
00:07:19.540 | I'm going to monk mode.
00:07:20.540 | You have a little bit of monk mode every day.
00:07:22.060 | That's sort of, okay, these are, I have a monk hour here.
00:07:24.020 | I mean, you start with like a monk half hour, I have like a monkish morning.
00:07:27.380 | Yeah.
00:07:28.380 | Monkish morning.
00:07:29.380 | I used that phrase somewhere.
00:07:30.380 | God, I've written too many things, but somewhere, somewhere I used this phrase, monk mode morning.
00:07:36.580 | And it was a CEO who ran his own sort of small company.
00:07:39.900 | It was like a 15 person thing.
00:07:42.100 | And I remember this was his thing, monk mode morning.
00:07:44.900 | And he said, no one can schedule anything with me until I figure out what it was.
00:07:47.820 | But it was like 10, 30 or 11.
00:07:49.300 | And he's like, that's it.
00:07:50.300 | We just, let's just work around that.
00:07:52.080 | But until 10, 30 or 11, I don't plug into anything.
00:07:55.100 | I'm just like working on it.
00:07:56.100 | And he's like, it transformed everything.
00:07:57.620 | That regular drumbeat of the uninterrupted allowed him to make progress on a lot of the
00:08:03.500 | big things that really mattered.
00:08:04.580 | And he got a lot better at it.
00:08:05.580 | And then it really made a difference for the business.
00:08:07.200 | And it turns out having to wait until 10, 30 or 11 before you can call or get an email
00:08:12.220 | response or set up a meeting with someone, people adjusted.
00:08:15.140 | It wasn't a big deal, but the benefit was.
00:08:17.460 | So monk mode morning.
00:08:19.140 | I remember that.
00:08:20.140 | M cubed.
00:08:21.140 | All right.
00:08:22.140 | Here's a long question, but it's interesting.
00:08:23.740 | I think you might have a quick answer, but okay.
00:08:26.340 | Adam, look at this.
00:08:28.100 | This is our third, a name.
00:08:31.380 | I always interested in that.
00:08:32.380 | We have three A's.
00:08:33.380 | - You sorted alphabetically when you were bringing the sheet here.
00:08:35.620 | - In my archive text-based planning system, I sorted alphabetically.
00:08:39.740 | All right.
00:08:40.740 | Adam says, in my earlier years, I thrived on structure and processes.
00:08:46.220 | Crossing things off was therapeutic and enabled me to get a lot done.
00:08:50.500 | Fast forward to 2024, and in my work, a lot of the time, a task isn't as simple as, you
00:08:56.780 | know, task A complete or not complete.
00:08:59.220 | Task A actually involves a series of 10 or 15 steps with various blockers, context and
00:09:04.300 | definitions of completion.
00:09:05.620 | I've delved in the productivity applications, but none seem to be the all-in-one solution
00:09:11.220 | I'm looking for.
00:09:12.740 | This has led to looking to AI as a savior, but I'm now realizing that the rudimentary
00:09:16.980 | large language models don't solve the problem.
00:09:19.020 | Am I better off going back to basics in this time of technology apps and AI growth and
00:09:23.140 | trusting my process, or should I pick just one program and become an expert with it?
00:09:28.500 | Well, my listeners know I'm going to say, go back to basics.
00:09:32.820 | An app is not a substitute for a process.
00:09:37.020 | You have to figure out, what am I working on?
00:09:39.340 | How do I want to work on it?
00:09:40.420 | What do I have to keep track of it?
00:09:42.180 | And then go find the tools to implement that.
00:09:44.740 | And nine times out of 10, those tools are going to be boring.
00:09:47.500 | It's going to be a Google Doc, maybe a Trello board, right?
00:09:51.180 | It's not going to be that interesting.
00:09:54.380 | And mainly, I mean, look, it looks like, Adam, you kind of have been up to now, you're used
00:09:59.460 | to like what we call productivity light, the sort of zero to one binary flip from I just
00:10:05.780 | am completely reactive to I keep track of things, I cross things off.
00:10:09.620 | I sometimes think of this as like bullet journal productivity.
00:10:12.980 | It's nice.
00:10:13.980 | It looks good.
00:10:14.980 | I keep track of the books I've read and what I want to work on today, and I can illustrate
00:10:18.620 | the borders.
00:10:20.060 | When you get into these high-end knowledge work jobs, productivity light doesn't cut
00:10:23.660 | it anymore.
00:10:25.020 | Your bullet journal can't keep up with 75 emails a day.
00:10:28.620 | It can't keep up with the administrative overhead of a shifting array of 12 ongoing projects.
00:10:34.100 | It can't keep up with a calendar that's averaging 20 to 40 events per week.
00:10:38.980 | The systems, you have to go from productivity light to productivity heavy.
00:10:43.060 | But it's the process that rules.
00:10:45.660 | I don't use any complicated software.
00:10:47.660 | I use Google Docs.
00:10:48.740 | I use my calendar.
00:10:49.740 | I use Trello.
00:10:50.740 | So you figure out how do I organize and have a process for working this work, and then
00:10:56.380 | you find the tools.
00:10:57.380 | I have some concrete suggestions, but Scott, like you're, I mean, you don't have a, you
00:11:01.260 | don't work in a complex process-oriented knowledge work job.
00:11:05.940 | So from kind of from the outside, like what's your take on this idea of like the tool, you
00:11:10.780 | know, is there the right tool I need that's going to solve this versus other ways of thinking
00:11:14.860 | about organizing effort?
00:11:16.220 | Well, so I'm not sure if it's Adam, right?
00:11:18.980 | Adam's the question.
00:11:19.980 | Adam, that's right.
00:11:20.980 | Yeah, Adam.
00:11:21.980 | I'm not sure if my experience directly parallels Adam, but I'll share it anyways.
00:11:26.100 | But I found for me, you know, and maybe you can comment on this as well, Cal, that when
00:11:31.900 | I got interested in productivity, when I was like first doing it, this kind of checklist-based
00:11:36.860 | approach just seemed like that's what productivity was.
00:11:40.420 | You write down all your tasks and then you check them off.
00:11:42.260 | And especially if you're a student, it's like read this chapter, complete this essay, do
00:11:45.500 | this kind of stuff.
00:11:46.500 | It really fits that mold.
00:11:48.260 | And now when I think about my work, two things have changed.
00:11:51.180 | One is that I've gotten to the somewhat enviable position that a lot of the checklist-based
00:11:55.780 | stuff have been delegated.
00:11:56.860 | I don't have the checklist-based tasks anymore.
00:11:59.060 | Someone else does the like, here's the, you know, eight mechanical steps you have to do
00:12:02.540 | every single time you do this and they check it off.
00:12:04.460 | I don't do them anymore.
00:12:06.020 | But then what was left, what was remaining was this core of like these hard problems
00:12:10.820 | that is sort of like, they're not, they're not something you can just check off.
00:12:14.060 | It's sort of like, okay, write a bestselling book.
00:12:15.940 | Okay.
00:12:16.940 | What's the tasks there?
00:12:17.940 | I mean, you could make a task list, but the thing is you're going to start working on
00:12:20.940 | the tasks and realize, no, that's not the right way to do it.
00:12:23.420 | Or you're not doing it properly.
00:12:24.900 | You certainly can't approach it with the mindset of like, just check off this one and move
00:12:28.940 | to the next one.
00:12:29.940 | And then you're going to have a bestselling book or you're going to have something successful
00:12:33.500 | here.
00:12:34.500 | So for me, I think I naturally gravitated more and more as I get older, as my career
00:12:40.080 | matures to the kind of deep work sort of system that, you know, what I'm trying to do is ensure
00:12:46.420 | that there is a deep focus on important tasks and that there is a lot of flexibility in
00:12:52.020 | how those get executed.
00:12:53.420 | And I'm, I'm not really like trying to break it down into, okay, well, I've just got to
00:12:57.340 | do these 10 little things.
00:12:58.340 | I mean, I still do that.
00:12:59.820 | I still have that sort of segregated somewhere else, but what I'm really trying to do is
00:13:03.140 | like, how can I have like six hours to just work on this book chapter and like grind through
00:13:08.900 | it and think through it?
00:13:09.900 | And like, in the moment, I'm constantly going back and forth between research and doing
00:13:14.260 | this and it's problem solving.
00:13:15.540 | Like there's no template I can follow.
00:13:17.620 | But the enemy of that is, well, I'm going to just, I'm going to spend 30 minutes and
00:13:21.580 | write 500 words every day.
00:13:23.060 | Like that kind of mindset that you see so often on Twitter of like, you know, I don't
00:13:27.620 | know, I was reading somewhere, someone was saying like, you know, you could write a book
00:13:30.940 | every three months, because if you write this many words per day, then that totals a book.
00:13:36.300 | And then I was just thinking, well, you know, I like, good for you if that's how you could
00:13:40.180 | write books.
00:13:41.180 | But I mean, for me, it's, it's, it's not the metric.
00:13:43.620 | It's not the metric.
00:13:44.620 | Sometimes you can write 5,000 words.
00:13:45.620 | Sometimes you spend days trying to figure out the opening sentence.
00:13:48.420 | And so I think this shift towards harder, more ambiguous tasks that have complexity
00:13:55.100 | built into it.
00:13:56.100 | I think to me, that's why the kind of a little bit more using the time metric, a little bit
00:14:00.560 | more using this is the chunk of time that I'm devoting to this, this is what chunk of
00:14:04.380 | time I'm going to push everything else off of so that I'm not having interruptions, distractions
00:14:08.540 | has been more important to me.
00:14:09.660 | But I mean, you can weigh in on this.
00:14:10.720 | You have a lot more like multiple job descriptions, responsibilities, counter interference.
00:14:17.060 | But I mean, I think it reflects your time block planning to some extent.
00:14:19.980 | Yeah.
00:14:20.980 | I mean, if we use the terminology like shallow versus deep productivity, deep being like
00:14:24.180 | the really complicated jobs, and I'll give you an example, I'm going to give you four,
00:14:29.140 | four processes that like you probably need all four of these.
00:14:31.820 | And for each of these, the tech to implement it is boring, right?
00:14:35.740 | Okay.
00:14:36.740 | So just based on my experience with these type of jobs, I've been dealing with people
00:14:39.360 | with these type of jobs.
00:14:40.360 | The first of all, you need some sort of structured task management, right?
00:14:43.960 | So you need a place of keeping track on your different projects, what needs to be done,
00:14:49.940 | where you can collect relevant information.
00:14:52.140 | So if someone sends you a file about that task, you're waiting to work on or sends you
00:14:55.860 | an email about it, you can add it to where that thing lives.
00:14:58.780 | So all the information lives in one place.
00:15:01.500 | Why I call this structured is because you can have, I use Trello for this, you can use
00:15:06.180 | a Google Doc for this.
00:15:07.540 | You want to have categories, right?
00:15:08.920 | So here's like tasks for a particular projects.
00:15:11.260 | Here's tasks that I'm trying to work on this week.
00:15:13.700 | Critically, here are things I'm waiting to hear back from other people on.
00:15:17.260 | So you have a place for, I'm waiting to hear back from this person on this.
00:15:20.740 | Once I hear back from this, then I can move on and do this, right?
00:15:23.180 | So you can keep track of, here's all the stuff that I know so far needs to get done for the
00:15:28.180 | various things I'm working on.
00:15:30.940 | Relevant information can live right there with the task.
00:15:33.900 | And I can have different categories here of just like, these are tasks for this project,
00:15:37.300 | but I'm not actively doing them.
00:15:39.060 | Here's tasks I'm working on this week.
00:15:40.340 | Here's things I'm waiting on.
00:15:42.820 | Any sort of thing can hold this information.
00:15:44.700 | You could have a Google Docs for different types of projects.
00:15:47.900 | You can have a Trello board with different boards for different types of projects or
00:15:51.340 | roles.
00:15:52.340 | The technology is boring, but you need something like that.
00:15:55.260 | You probably need to do multi-scale planning at this level of complexity, Adam, right?
00:15:58.620 | So for the quarter, you check in, like, what are the big things I'm working on?
00:16:02.960 | You check that quarterly plan every week when you make your weekly plan, all right?
00:16:06.380 | So which of these things am I trying to make progress on this week?
00:16:09.100 | When am I doing it?
00:16:10.140 | Do I need to move some meetings around so I have some more open time?
00:16:13.100 | Do I need to add some new meetings to my calendar to make progress on it?
00:16:16.420 | What's my game plan this week for making progress on the things I want to make progress on?
00:16:20.700 | And then you have a daily time block plan where you look at the weekly plan.
00:16:23.540 | So you are grappling with the things you need to do at multiple scales.
00:16:28.200 | The other thing I think you need, Adam, is to work with non-interruptive communication.
00:16:33.760 | So if you have a bunch of things going on like this, the real enemy, if we're going
00:16:37.380 | to get into Weed's Deep Productivity nerd stuff, the real enemy is going to be the context
00:16:41.580 | switches.
00:16:42.580 | If you have six ongoing projects that are each generating emails and Slack messages
00:16:46.500 | that you pretty much have to see and respond to pretty quickly because that's how things
00:16:49.840 | are being worked out, you are sabotaging your ability to actually do this work.
00:16:54.620 | And so you need to have structured communication.
00:16:56.580 | This means daily office hours.
00:16:59.120 | Anything that requires more than a one-message response, you say, just grab me at my office
00:17:02.580 | hours.
00:17:03.580 | We'll do a five-minute real-time conversation, figure this out.
00:17:05.940 | The various groups you work with have to have standing maybe twice a week meetings to just
00:17:10.100 | go through a lot of things at once.
00:17:12.100 | You should have a docket for each of these groups.
00:17:14.140 | As people think up things that there's a question or something we have to figure out, you add
00:17:17.940 | it to the docket.
00:17:19.100 | And when you get to the meeting, you go through that docket one by one so you don't have to
00:17:22.860 | email people or Slack people when something comes up that you worry about, you throw it
00:17:27.900 | on the docket.
00:17:28.900 | None of this stuff requires big tech, right?
00:17:32.260 | Office hours requires that you open up a Zoom window and keep your door open.
00:17:35.900 | A docket is a Google Doc or a Dropbox where you have a text file in it, right?
00:17:40.340 | So I'm giving you these examples, Adam, not because that's the magic collection, but these
00:17:45.340 | are things that work really well.
00:17:46.460 | So they're representative of the type of deep productivity processes that work in these
00:17:50.660 | complicated knowledge work jobs.
00:17:52.820 | None of them require complicated tech, and they're certainly not unified in some sort
00:17:58.220 | of master tool that's going to do this work for you.
00:18:00.420 | In the end, it's still you doing planning at multiple scales and executing.
00:18:04.860 | This stuff helps keep things organized, but it's still you doing this work.
00:18:08.560 | The tech is not that interesting.
00:18:11.500 | So I come back to that, Silicon Valley wants us to believe the tool is what will give us
00:18:17.740 | the productivity.
00:18:18.740 | And I wrote a New Yorker piece about this last fall.
00:18:22.180 | It's the other way around, that we figure out what we need to be productive and then
00:18:25.220 | go and find the tools.
00:18:26.220 | The problem is most of those tools have already been invented and are very low cost.
00:18:28.980 | So this is not great for the Silicon Valley companies.
00:18:32.460 | Google Workspaces is not that expensive, like that plus Trello.
00:18:37.140 | You don't need any more.
00:18:38.140 | Email, like email, you can send files back and forth and you're good, you know, monday.com
00:18:44.140 | isn't even needed.
00:18:45.340 | Hey, if you like this video, I think you'll really like this one as well.