back to indexDoes “Monk Mode” Actually Work? - How To Achieve Deep Work & Get Ahead | Cal Newport
Chapters
0:0 Studying art
1:50 Cal's general definition of note taking
6:30 Building complicated systems
10:50 Learning as a college student
15:0 Active recall
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I've seen a lot of people talk about monk mode. 00:00:06.160 |
Monk mode meaning you sort of, I first heard this from Greg McKeown where he like I'm disappearing. 00:00:12.720 |
I'm going to like a shed for a month and all I'm doing is writing. 00:00:25.880 |
I confused these up, but I was thinking about Adam Grant where he would have periods of 00:00:29.960 |
the year where he would just disappear to work on research, be out of touch and other 00:00:35.560 |
So monk mode I guess is spreading online again. 00:00:39.040 |
I think you might have the same take on this as I do, which is it's less about monk mode 00:00:46.440 |
working to me than it is the way the hyperactive hive mind constantly context switching that 00:00:58.720 |
So like me and you, I know neither of us disappear to cabins for six months the right. 00:01:05.080 |
But I think we're just much more careful in general in making our day-to-day work something 00:01:10.540 |
that we don't have to escape so dramatically from. 00:01:13.400 |
Trying to just in general see, I don't want to just constantly be context switching between 00:01:25.600 |
I think of you as being pretty careful about how you work. 00:01:29.920 |
I mean, I think, so again, I think I don't place so much emphasis on the retreat into 00:01:37.280 |
Not that that's always bad, but just to me, sometimes that can also be a little bit of 00:01:42.480 |
a fantasy distracting from what the real problem is. 00:01:44.960 |
Like, well, the problem is that I'm in this physical location, like sometimes, but usually 00:01:50.360 |
Usually the problem is not like, well, that you couldn't do any deep work here, but that 00:01:54.720 |
it's hard and it's like easier to like open your phone and do that kind of thing. 00:01:58.040 |
And so I do think it's not necessarily monk mode, but one thing that I noticed, especially 00:02:02.400 |
when I embark on like bigger, cognitively challenging projects, and maybe you can attest 00:02:06.280 |
to this Cal, is that, you know, right now, for instance, I am in the kind of promotional 00:02:12.720 |
I'm like emailing every old friend and being like, hey, you know, like I've got a new book. 00:02:17.280 |
And it's, it is like a hive mind kind of thing. 00:02:19.040 |
I open my email and there's lots of little communications and like, who do I have to 00:02:22.920 |
You know, it's very extroverted, socially focused, this kind of thing. 00:02:26.880 |
But when I'm writing the book, I find that the challenge is that, okay, I've got like 00:02:30.920 |
this 30 page dense paper to read that I think is important for me to read, but it's a little 00:02:37.400 |
You know, it's not like this is, this isn't a Harry Potter book or something like, you 00:02:40.600 |
know, murder mystery novel or something like, I'm not just churning through the pages. 00:02:45.280 |
And I'm going to look up keywords and like, oh, maybe this citation, this kind of thing. 00:02:48.760 |
And so I think the real challenge that we have in doing, you know, work that, that requires 00:02:54.200 |
cognitive demands is that you're sitting and maybe you want to like read for three hours 00:03:00.120 |
But after like 15 minutes, your brain is telling you, you know what, maybe go on Twitter, maybe, 00:03:05.720 |
Maybe there's some distraction that would be like a, like a break from doing this kind 00:03:10.660 |
And so I think what, what this kind of monk mode or something akin to that can be helpful 00:03:16.000 |
for is that you have to sort of shift yourself into a mode where you are getting used to 00:03:22.280 |
It's a little bit like training for a marathon. 00:03:23.860 |
Like if you don't run ever and then you run for 20 minutes, your lungs are screaming, 00:03:31.040 |
I don't think that past a certain point, it's so much that your physical fitness is increasing. 00:03:35.200 |
It's just, you're learning to switch off that part of your brain. 00:03:37.600 |
That's like, do something else, do something else, do something else. 00:03:40.160 |
And so I think when you get into this or like, I need to do a lot of deep work mode, I think 00:03:44.280 |
it is helpful to kind of create some constraints around your work so that you're prioritizing 00:03:50.040 |
You're able to get longer stretches in, you're able to just like, okay, I just sat and I 00:03:53.360 |
read all day and it wasn't like agony that does take a little bit of building up to get 00:03:58.760 |
And so I think, you know, that that's where this can be helpful is if like, if you're 00:04:01.960 |
in the cabin in the woods, you don't have the friends, this kind of thing, maybe it's 00:04:05.040 |
sometimes easier to, to, to transition to doing that. 00:04:08.260 |
But I think the transition to doing that is, is what's really important. 00:04:16.360 |
I talk about rituals and location, have a separate location where you do the monk mode 00:04:21.400 |
It doesn't have to be a dramatically different location, but it's okay. 00:04:24.400 |
Instead of being at the home office desk, I go to the screened in porch, you know, but 00:04:28.360 |
it's a place that I only associate and then have rituals. 00:04:30.620 |
You know, I go for a walk, I make a certain amount of tea that helps, but I love this 00:04:36.920 |
This is connected to your book though, right, Scott, because what is all the, the, the key 00:04:41.480 |
efforts in mastery that you talk about are efforts that require sustained concentration. 00:04:47.340 |
And that's something you have to be, you get used to, right? 00:04:49.280 |
Like the more used to your, like, I just do this on a regular basis. 00:04:53.240 |
There's periods of my day where I'm just locked in on something and I'm not distracted and 00:04:57.840 |
I mean, I talk about this in deep work, right? 00:05:00.160 |
The the more comfortable you are with that, the more comfortable you'll be with learning 00:05:04.760 |
It's the same basic cognitive muscles are, are being stretched. 00:05:08.740 |
So I'm assuming that you would, you would see the same problem where if I live a full 00:05:12.720 |
Linda stone, partial continuous attention lifestyle, I'm just constantly moving back 00:05:19.800 |
If I then say, you know what I'm going to do is I'm going to start learning something 00:05:25.160 |
I'm going to struggle in just the sense that my mind is not used to the feeling of cognitive 00:05:30.380 |
strain that is going to be involved in learning something hard. 00:05:35.480 |
I mean, I think, so one of the things that I find important in this regard is, uh, when 00:05:41.500 |
you, when you're approaching this kind of task, it is helpful to like be more deliberate 00:05:46.180 |
about, you know, we do this in our course life of focus where you are being very explicit 00:05:52.980 |
You put the computer away, but you kind of remove yourself physically from those distractions. 00:05:57.100 |
It doesn't have to be a different location, but it can just be some way that you're pushing 00:06:00.700 |
them away because I think as you build the skill, the way I think of it is it's, it's 00:06:05.220 |
a little bit like, um, you know, it gets thrown around too much, but like addiction and this 00:06:09.740 |
motivational hardwiring is very similar that, you know, if you were a gambling addict and 00:06:14.180 |
you're like, Oh, I'm going to go like live right next to the casino, it would be very 00:06:17.980 |
difficult when you're in the habit of going to the slot machines all the time to resist 00:06:22.780 |
So you might want to get yourself removed from it. 00:06:24.980 |
Don't have any things that's going to make you think about doing this, but then maybe 00:06:27.820 |
once you've done it more and more, it would be fine. 00:06:33.100 |
I don't want to go through Las Vegas and not feel as much temptation. 00:06:35.540 |
And so similarly with deep work, I think some of the difficulty is that if you're not used 00:06:40.460 |
to the sustained cognitive effort, maybe because it's a new role, new task, new project, this 00:06:44.980 |
kind of thing, like it can be exhausting, but it's also what is exhausting about it 00:06:48.980 |
is your kind of your motivational hardwiring being like, this is easier, this is more fun, 00:06:53.500 |
this is more appealing and that actually you can, that will quiet down if you can stick 00:06:59.620 |
And so that's sort of that, that transition can be hard, I think, for people. 00:07:02.900 |
And you have to believe that that's going to happen. 00:07:04.820 |
That after you do it for three months, oh, actually sitting and reading for four hours 00:07:10.540 |
You don't have to be some kind of like savant-like focused person to do it. 00:07:20.540 |
You have a little bit of monk mode every day. 00:07:22.060 |
That's sort of, okay, these are, I have a monk hour here. 00:07:24.020 |
I mean, you start with like a monk half hour, I have like a monkish morning. 00:07:30.380 |
God, I've written too many things, but somewhere, somewhere I used this phrase, monk mode morning. 00:07:36.580 |
And it was a CEO who ran his own sort of small company. 00:07:42.100 |
And I remember this was his thing, monk mode morning. 00:07:44.900 |
And he said, no one can schedule anything with me until I figure out what it was. 00:07:52.080 |
But until 10, 30 or 11, I don't plug into anything. 00:07:57.620 |
That regular drumbeat of the uninterrupted allowed him to make progress on a lot of the 00:08:05.580 |
And then it really made a difference for the business. 00:08:07.200 |
And it turns out having to wait until 10, 30 or 11 before you can call or get an email 00:08:12.220 |
response or set up a meeting with someone, people adjusted. 00:08:22.140 |
Here's a long question, but it's interesting. 00:08:23.740 |
I think you might have a quick answer, but okay. 00:08:33.380 |
- You sorted alphabetically when you were bringing the sheet here. 00:08:35.620 |
- In my archive text-based planning system, I sorted alphabetically. 00:08:40.740 |
Adam says, in my earlier years, I thrived on structure and processes. 00:08:46.220 |
Crossing things off was therapeutic and enabled me to get a lot done. 00:08:50.500 |
Fast forward to 2024, and in my work, a lot of the time, a task isn't as simple as, you 00:08:59.220 |
Task A actually involves a series of 10 or 15 steps with various blockers, context and 00:09:05.620 |
I've delved in the productivity applications, but none seem to be the all-in-one solution 00:09:12.740 |
This has led to looking to AI as a savior, but I'm now realizing that the rudimentary 00:09:16.980 |
large language models don't solve the problem. 00:09:19.020 |
Am I better off going back to basics in this time of technology apps and AI growth and 00:09:23.140 |
trusting my process, or should I pick just one program and become an expert with it? 00:09:28.500 |
Well, my listeners know I'm going to say, go back to basics. 00:09:37.020 |
You have to figure out, what am I working on? 00:09:42.180 |
And then go find the tools to implement that. 00:09:44.740 |
And nine times out of 10, those tools are going to be boring. 00:09:47.500 |
It's going to be a Google Doc, maybe a Trello board, right? 00:09:54.380 |
And mainly, I mean, look, it looks like, Adam, you kind of have been up to now, you're used 00:09:59.460 |
to like what we call productivity light, the sort of zero to one binary flip from I just 00:10:05.780 |
am completely reactive to I keep track of things, I cross things off. 00:10:09.620 |
I sometimes think of this as like bullet journal productivity. 00:10:14.980 |
I keep track of the books I've read and what I want to work on today, and I can illustrate 00:10:20.060 |
When you get into these high-end knowledge work jobs, productivity light doesn't cut 00:10:25.020 |
Your bullet journal can't keep up with 75 emails a day. 00:10:28.620 |
It can't keep up with the administrative overhead of a shifting array of 12 ongoing projects. 00:10:34.100 |
It can't keep up with a calendar that's averaging 20 to 40 events per week. 00:10:38.980 |
The systems, you have to go from productivity light to productivity heavy. 00:10:50.740 |
So you figure out how do I organize and have a process for working this work, and then 00:10:57.380 |
I have some concrete suggestions, but Scott, like you're, I mean, you don't have a, you 00:11:01.260 |
don't work in a complex process-oriented knowledge work job. 00:11:05.940 |
So from kind of from the outside, like what's your take on this idea of like the tool, you 00:11:10.780 |
know, is there the right tool I need that's going to solve this versus other ways of thinking 00:11:21.980 |
I'm not sure if my experience directly parallels Adam, but I'll share it anyways. 00:11:26.100 |
But I found for me, you know, and maybe you can comment on this as well, Cal, that when 00:11:31.900 |
I got interested in productivity, when I was like first doing it, this kind of checklist-based 00:11:36.860 |
approach just seemed like that's what productivity was. 00:11:40.420 |
You write down all your tasks and then you check them off. 00:11:42.260 |
And especially if you're a student, it's like read this chapter, complete this essay, do 00:11:48.260 |
And now when I think about my work, two things have changed. 00:11:51.180 |
One is that I've gotten to the somewhat enviable position that a lot of the checklist-based 00:11:56.860 |
I don't have the checklist-based tasks anymore. 00:11:59.060 |
Someone else does the like, here's the, you know, eight mechanical steps you have to do 00:12:02.540 |
every single time you do this and they check it off. 00:12:06.020 |
But then what was left, what was remaining was this core of like these hard problems 00:12:10.820 |
that is sort of like, they're not, they're not something you can just check off. 00:12:14.060 |
It's sort of like, okay, write a bestselling book. 00:12:17.940 |
I mean, you could make a task list, but the thing is you're going to start working on 00:12:20.940 |
the tasks and realize, no, that's not the right way to do it. 00:12:24.900 |
You certainly can't approach it with the mindset of like, just check off this one and move 00:12:29.940 |
And then you're going to have a bestselling book or you're going to have something successful 00:12:34.500 |
So for me, I think I naturally gravitated more and more as I get older, as my career 00:12:40.080 |
matures to the kind of deep work sort of system that, you know, what I'm trying to do is ensure 00:12:46.420 |
that there is a deep focus on important tasks and that there is a lot of flexibility in 00:12:53.420 |
And I'm, I'm not really like trying to break it down into, okay, well, I've just got to 00:12:59.820 |
I still have that sort of segregated somewhere else, but what I'm really trying to do is 00:13:03.140 |
like, how can I have like six hours to just work on this book chapter and like grind through 00:13:09.900 |
And like, in the moment, I'm constantly going back and forth between research and doing 00:13:17.620 |
But the enemy of that is, well, I'm going to just, I'm going to spend 30 minutes and 00:13:23.060 |
Like that kind of mindset that you see so often on Twitter of like, you know, I don't 00:13:27.620 |
know, I was reading somewhere, someone was saying like, you know, you could write a book 00:13:30.940 |
every three months, because if you write this many words per day, then that totals a book. 00:13:36.300 |
And then I was just thinking, well, you know, I like, good for you if that's how you could 00:13:41.180 |
But I mean, for me, it's, it's, it's not the metric. 00:13:45.620 |
Sometimes you spend days trying to figure out the opening sentence. 00:13:48.420 |
And so I think this shift towards harder, more ambiguous tasks that have complexity 00:13:56.100 |
I think to me, that's why the kind of a little bit more using the time metric, a little bit 00:14:00.560 |
more using this is the chunk of time that I'm devoting to this, this is what chunk of 00:14:04.380 |
time I'm going to push everything else off of so that I'm not having interruptions, distractions 00:14:10.720 |
You have a lot more like multiple job descriptions, responsibilities, counter interference. 00:14:17.060 |
But I mean, I think it reflects your time block planning to some extent. 00:14:20.980 |
I mean, if we use the terminology like shallow versus deep productivity, deep being like 00:14:24.180 |
the really complicated jobs, and I'll give you an example, I'm going to give you four, 00:14:29.140 |
four processes that like you probably need all four of these. 00:14:31.820 |
And for each of these, the tech to implement it is boring, right? 00:14:36.740 |
So just based on my experience with these type of jobs, I've been dealing with people 00:14:40.360 |
The first of all, you need some sort of structured task management, right? 00:14:43.960 |
So you need a place of keeping track on your different projects, what needs to be done, 00:14:52.140 |
So if someone sends you a file about that task, you're waiting to work on or sends you 00:14:55.860 |
an email about it, you can add it to where that thing lives. 00:15:01.500 |
Why I call this structured is because you can have, I use Trello for this, you can use 00:15:08.920 |
So here's like tasks for a particular projects. 00:15:11.260 |
Here's tasks that I'm trying to work on this week. 00:15:13.700 |
Critically, here are things I'm waiting to hear back from other people on. 00:15:17.260 |
So you have a place for, I'm waiting to hear back from this person on this. 00:15:20.740 |
Once I hear back from this, then I can move on and do this, right? 00:15:23.180 |
So you can keep track of, here's all the stuff that I know so far needs to get done for the 00:15:30.940 |
Relevant information can live right there with the task. 00:15:33.900 |
And I can have different categories here of just like, these are tasks for this project, 00:15:44.700 |
You could have a Google Docs for different types of projects. 00:15:47.900 |
You can have a Trello board with different boards for different types of projects or 00:15:52.340 |
The technology is boring, but you need something like that. 00:15:55.260 |
You probably need to do multi-scale planning at this level of complexity, Adam, right? 00:15:58.620 |
So for the quarter, you check in, like, what are the big things I'm working on? 00:16:02.960 |
You check that quarterly plan every week when you make your weekly plan, all right? 00:16:06.380 |
So which of these things am I trying to make progress on this week? 00:16:10.140 |
Do I need to move some meetings around so I have some more open time? 00:16:13.100 |
Do I need to add some new meetings to my calendar to make progress on it? 00:16:16.420 |
What's my game plan this week for making progress on the things I want to make progress on? 00:16:20.700 |
And then you have a daily time block plan where you look at the weekly plan. 00:16:23.540 |
So you are grappling with the things you need to do at multiple scales. 00:16:28.200 |
The other thing I think you need, Adam, is to work with non-interruptive communication. 00:16:33.760 |
So if you have a bunch of things going on like this, the real enemy, if we're going 00:16:37.380 |
to get into Weed's Deep Productivity nerd stuff, the real enemy is going to be the context 00:16:42.580 |
If you have six ongoing projects that are each generating emails and Slack messages 00:16:46.500 |
that you pretty much have to see and respond to pretty quickly because that's how things 00:16:49.840 |
are being worked out, you are sabotaging your ability to actually do this work. 00:16:54.620 |
And so you need to have structured communication. 00:16:59.120 |
Anything that requires more than a one-message response, you say, just grab me at my office 00:17:03.580 |
We'll do a five-minute real-time conversation, figure this out. 00:17:05.940 |
The various groups you work with have to have standing maybe twice a week meetings to just 00:17:12.100 |
You should have a docket for each of these groups. 00:17:14.140 |
As people think up things that there's a question or something we have to figure out, you add 00:17:19.100 |
And when you get to the meeting, you go through that docket one by one so you don't have to 00:17:22.860 |
email people or Slack people when something comes up that you worry about, you throw it 00:17:32.260 |
Office hours requires that you open up a Zoom window and keep your door open. 00:17:35.900 |
A docket is a Google Doc or a Dropbox where you have a text file in it, right? 00:17:40.340 |
So I'm giving you these examples, Adam, not because that's the magic collection, but these 00:17:46.460 |
So they're representative of the type of deep productivity processes that work in these 00:17:52.820 |
None of them require complicated tech, and they're certainly not unified in some sort 00:17:58.220 |
of master tool that's going to do this work for you. 00:18:00.420 |
In the end, it's still you doing planning at multiple scales and executing. 00:18:04.860 |
This stuff helps keep things organized, but it's still you doing this work. 00:18:11.500 |
So I come back to that, Silicon Valley wants us to believe the tool is what will give us 00:18:18.740 |
And I wrote a New Yorker piece about this last fall. 00:18:22.180 |
It's the other way around, that we figure out what we need to be productive and then 00:18:26.220 |
The problem is most of those tools have already been invented and are very low cost. 00:18:28.980 |
So this is not great for the Silicon Valley companies. 00:18:32.460 |
Google Workspaces is not that expensive, like that plus Trello. 00:18:38.140 |
Email, like email, you can send files back and forth and you're good, you know, monday.com 00:18:45.340 |
Hey, if you like this video, I think you'll really like this one as well.