back to indexAndrew Huberman: Productivity, Controversy, Politics, and Relationships | Lex Fridman Podcast #435
Chapters
0:0 Introduction
0:50 Quitting and evolving
7:48 How to focus and think deeply
10:21 Cannabis drama
20:34 Jungian shadow
31:1 Supplements
34:4 Nicotine
38:27 Caffeine
40:14 Math gaffe
57:16 2024 presidential elections
64:13 Great white sharks
72:58 Ayahuasca & psychedelics
87:59 Relationships
95:34 Productivity
104:23 Friendship
00:00:00.000 |
Hardship will show you who your real friends are, 00:00:05.640 |
"Don't eat with people you wouldn't starve with." 00:00:08.740 |
The following is a conversation with Andrew Huberman, 00:00:22.440 |
and is an amazing scientist, teacher, human being, 00:00:34.160 |
that you should pre-order now called "Protocols," 00:00:43.560 |
please check out our sponsors in the description. 00:00:45.960 |
And now, dear friends, here's Andrew Huberman. 00:00:58.600 |
and then on the periphery of skateboard culture. 00:01:03.320 |
And for the record, I was not a great skateboarder. 00:01:08.400 |
If you call something you didn't do or whatever. 00:01:11.200 |
I mean, I could do a few things and I loved the community, 00:01:14.480 |
and I still have a lot of friends in that community. 00:01:27.360 |
and stay big in many cases, start huge companies 00:01:31.960 |
Some people have a long life in something, some don't. 00:01:35.920 |
But one thing I observed and learned a lot from 00:01:37.900 |
in skateboarding at the level of observing the skateboarders 00:01:53.320 |
you do it at the highest possible level for you, 00:01:59.080 |
and you start supporting the young talent coming in. 00:02:07.840 |
there are many other labs in neuroscience, Karl Deisseroth. 00:02:11.600 |
They're not just known for doing great science, 00:02:13.640 |
they're known for mentoring some of the best scientists 00:02:20.880 |
I am very fortunate I got in in a fairly early wave, 00:02:25.160 |
but thanks to your suggestion of doing a podcast, 00:02:28.800 |
And I'll continue to go as long as it feels right. 00:02:40.340 |
Sycom Media, there's a couple other guys in there too, 00:02:56.940 |
- And we wanna do more of that kind of thing, 00:02:59.960 |
highly qualified people, credentialed people. 00:03:12.900 |
And so will there be a final episode of the HLP? 00:03:33.260 |
and you can come back whenever the fuck you want. 00:03:36.440 |
- Jon Stewart did this well with "The Daily Show." 00:03:44.440 |
Dave Chappelle, for different reasons, walked away. 00:03:52.160 |
And then came back and was doing standup in the park 00:04:15.620 |
The last few years have been tremendous growth. 00:04:20.660 |
And even this last year, 2024, has been huge growth 00:04:31.480 |
30-minute shorter episodes that really distill down 00:04:36.540 |
We're also thinking about moving to other venues 00:04:41.380 |
So there's always the thought and the discussion. 00:04:43.420 |
But when it comes to when to hang up your cleats, 00:04:45.820 |
there just comes a natural time where you can do more 00:05:01.900 |
started DC with Ken Block, the driver who unfortunately 00:05:05.220 |
passed away a little while ago, rally car driver. 00:05:08.460 |
And they eventually sold it, I think, to Quicksilver 00:05:16.540 |
But they brought in the next line of amazing riders, 00:05:30.020 |
I don't know if anyone can name one of his mentor offspring. 00:05:47.740 |
for being excellent scientists and great mentors. 00:05:56.940 |
I put some really important knowledge into the world. 00:06:02.500 |
You spawned all these other scientific offspring 00:06:18.700 |
Rhonda Patrick, first science podcast out there. 00:06:31.500 |
- Yeah, well, you're talking about the healthy way to do it, 00:06:37.860 |
where you have somebody like Grisha Grigori Pearlman, 00:06:41.940 |
the mathematician who refused to accept the Fields Medal. 00:06:44.820 |
So, he's one of the greatest living mathematicians 00:07:03.660 |
He turned away the money, he turned away everything. 00:07:11.740 |
and make the decisions that don't make any sense 00:07:13.860 |
for the rest of the world and make sense to you. 00:07:31.180 |
But hey, that's his right, he earned that right. 00:07:33.620 |
- I think the best artists aren't doing it for the prize. 00:07:36.220 |
They aren't doing it for the fame or the money. 00:07:41.780 |
You gotta verb it through, download your inner thing. 00:08:00.920 |
As a practice, I went and spent some time with him 00:08:15.380 |
And then he would spend a fair amount of time 00:08:17.580 |
during the day in this kind of meditative state 00:08:20.080 |
where his mind is very active, body very still. 00:08:22.760 |
And then Karl Deisseroth, when he came on my podcast, 00:08:25.540 |
talked about how he forces himself to sit still 00:08:27.620 |
and think in complete sentences late at night 00:08:31.620 |
And there's a state of mind, rapid eye movement sleep, 00:08:41.340 |
with some of the more elaborate emotion-filled dreams 00:08:49.180 |
Einstein, people described him as taking walks 00:09:08.500 |
but we're talking about some incredible minds 00:09:10.860 |
and creatives who have a practice of stilling the body 00:09:14.960 |
while keeping the mind deliberately very active, 00:09:19.480 |
And then there are a lot of people who also report 00:09:22.380 |
great ideas coming to them in the shower, while running. 00:09:29.440 |
is perhaps more on kind of like a default mode network, 00:09:34.060 |
not really focusing on any one specific thing. 00:09:36.300 |
- You know, interesting, there's a bunch of physicists 00:09:52.660 |
- Right, and we know, we just did this six episode 00:09:59.740 |
We know that when you deprive yourself of sleep 00:10:06.540 |
in rapid eye movement sleep, you get a higher percentage 00:10:12.420 |
and he did an episode on sleep and creativity, 00:10:16.380 |
sleep and memory, and rapid eye movement sleep 00:10:23.500 |
about cannabis withdrawal and rapid eye movement sleep. 00:10:34.300 |
Cannabis is a very controversial topic right now. 00:10:52.860 |
depends on genetic background, a number of other things. 00:10:55.920 |
We published that episode well over a year ago 00:11:26.780 |
from a few people in the cannabis research field. 00:11:35.000 |
I mean, the statement that got things riled up the most 00:11:40.000 |
was this notion that for certain individuals, 00:11:45.140 |
there's a high potential for inducing psychosis 00:12:14.460 |
especially among colleagues, but that's fine. 00:12:19.700 |
it was strangely rude, and it had an air of like elitism 00:12:24.700 |
that to me was at the source of the problem during COVID 00:12:36.860 |
and the popularization of disrespecting science 00:12:40.220 |
because so many scientists spoke with an arrogance 00:12:42.500 |
and a douchebaggery that I wish we would have 00:12:49.860 |
don't understand that people outside the university system 00:12:52.760 |
they're not familiar with the inner workings of science 00:12:59.220 |
and the culture, and so you have to be very careful 00:13:03.700 |
how you present when you're a university professor. 00:13:15.700 |
which was, hey, come on the podcast, let's chat. 00:13:18.700 |
And why don't you give your, tell me where I'm wrong, 00:13:21.700 |
and let's discuss, and fortunately, he agreed. 00:13:26.700 |
And initially, he said, well, no, how can I be sure 00:13:30.740 |
And so I said, we got on a DM, then an email, 00:13:35.240 |
then eventually a phone call, and just said, hey, listen, 00:13:36.780 |
like, you're welcome to record the whole conversation. 00:13:41.100 |
and let's just get to the heart of the matter. 00:13:42.500 |
I think this little controversy is perfect kindling 00:13:49.540 |
And he had some other conditions that we worked out, 00:13:52.940 |
and I felt like, cool, like he's really interested. 00:14:06.240 |
He really wants to make sure that there's kind of a space 00:14:12.100 |
of science and health podcasts in the academic community 00:14:17.380 |
No, we run ads so it can be free to everyone else. 00:14:25.340 |
It was interesting because in the wake of that 00:14:28.980 |
little exchange, there's been a bunch of press 00:14:39.580 |
as within the United States as, when I say cultures, 00:14:47.640 |
There have been people highlighting the issues 00:14:50.100 |
of potential psychosis and high THC containing. 00:14:55.740 |
how traditional media is sort of on board certain elements 00:14:58.420 |
that I put forward, and I think there's some controversy 00:15:03.420 |
the indicas and sativas are biologically different, et cetera. 00:15:07.020 |
So we'll get down into the weeds, pun intended, 00:15:14.160 |
to a direct criticism online about scientific content 00:15:20.820 |
oh, here, the idea of inviting a particular guest. 00:15:31.820 |
But look, he seems highly credentialed, it'll be fun. 00:15:34.320 |
And we, you know, we welcome that kind of exchange. 00:15:46.420 |
and was like basically like, kind of like F you, 00:15:50.500 |
But you get someone on the phone and it's like, 00:15:54.820 |
there was an immediate apology of like, hey, listen, 00:15:57.140 |
I came out, normally I'm like, not like that, but online, 00:16:05.860 |
but if you're like, all right, well, let's go, 00:16:08.900 |
then it's probably a different story, you know? 00:16:17.460 |
you have been very respectful towards this person. 00:16:32.260 |
he was still talking down to you the whole time. 00:16:46.540 |
exploring all the interesting aspects of science. 00:16:51.660 |
If you've got anything wrong, you wanna learn about it. 00:16:55.740 |
The way he was being a dick, I was just hurt a little bit, 00:17:00.180 |
not because of him, but 'cause there's some people 00:17:02.660 |
I really, really admire, brilliant scientists, 00:17:05.420 |
that are not their best selves on Twitter, on X. 00:17:11.180 |
- I don't understand what happens to their brain. 00:17:14.700 |
They regress, and they also are protected, you know? 00:17:18.420 |
When you remove the, I mean, no scientific argument 00:17:29.380 |
people will throw all sorts of stones at a distance, 00:17:39.840 |
But you get in a room, and it's like, you know, 00:17:44.220 |
confrontational people in real life are pretty rare, 00:17:53.940 |
We're not talking about physical altercation. 00:17:55.380 |
Yeah, he kept coming, and he kept putting on conditions. 00:17:59.340 |
And I was like, well, you can record the conversation. 00:18:06.080 |
and to his credit, you know, he's agreed to come on. 00:18:11.340 |
but once he does, you know, we'll treat him right 00:18:16.500 |
and I just hope that people are a little bit nicer 00:18:20.260 |
- Yeah, well, you know, X is an interesting one 00:18:38.780 |
that should be sort of symbols of scientific thinking, 00:18:48.480 |
and Twitter is a good place to illustrate that. 00:18:56.860 |
and then directed a Cold Spring Harbor course 00:19:00.740 |
These are summer courses that explore different topics, 00:19:04.020 |
and at night, we would host what we hoped were battles 00:19:08.180 |
in front of the students where you'd get two people on a, 00:19:13.140 |
or molecular tools that would first, you know, 00:19:16.580 |
restore vision to the blind kind of arguments. 00:19:18.460 |
You know, kind of like, it's kind of a silly argument 00:19:20.020 |
'cause it's gonna be a combination of both, right? 00:19:25.020 |
but the arguments were always couched in data, 00:19:28.800 |
and occasionally, you'd get somebody would go like, 00:19:32.300 |
but it was the rare, very well-placed, you know, insult. 00:19:43.320 |
the internet is a record of people's behavior, 00:19:58.700 |
you would hope that people would grow from that example. 00:20:00.820 |
Well, I'll tell you that the podcasters that I'm scouting, 00:20:03.500 |
it's their energy, but it's also how they treat other people, 00:20:12.380 |
When we put out a podcast like someone else's podcast, 00:20:16.180 |
So, like a skateboard team, like a laboratory 00:20:19.560 |
where you're selecting people to be in your lab, 00:20:22.240 |
you want to pick people that you would enjoy working with 00:20:31.320 |
but you're in the suit and tie, you're bringing it back. 00:20:35.560 |
You said that your conversation with James Hollis, 00:20:38.440 |
a Jungian psychoanalyst, had a big impact on you. 00:20:42.560 |
- James Hollis is a 84-year-old Jungian psychoanalyst 00:20:46.920 |
who's written 17 books, including "Under Saturn's Shadow," 00:20:53.880 |
which is about relationships and creating a life. 00:20:57.360 |
I discovered James Hollis in an online lecture 00:21:02.400 |
The audio is terrible, called "Creating a Life." 00:21:05.340 |
And this was somewhere in the 2011 to 2015 span, 00:21:09.140 |
I can't remember, and I was on my way to Europe, 00:21:13.020 |
I was like, I just found the most incredible lecture 00:21:24.780 |
and how you either align with or go 180 degrees 00:21:29.060 |
off your parents' tendencies and values in certain areas. 00:21:33.320 |
He talked about the specific questions to ask of oneself 00:21:37.060 |
at different stages of life, to live a full life. 00:21:38.860 |
So it's always been a dream of mine to meet him 00:21:45.200 |
so our team went out to D.C. and sat down with him. 00:21:51.000 |
And he came in, he had some surgeries recently, 00:21:54.460 |
and he kinda came in with some assistance from a cane 00:22:03.460 |
From start to finish, he didn't miss a syllable. 00:22:07.180 |
And every sentence that he spoke was a quotable sentence 00:22:16.460 |
I think one of the things that was most striking to me 00:22:20.300 |
was how he said when we take ourselves out of stimulus 00:22:27.220 |
to spend some time in the quiet of our thoughts 00:22:31.060 |
while walking or while seated or while lying down. 00:22:34.340 |
Doesn't have to be meditation, but it could be. 00:22:46.220 |
10 minutes a day here, 15 minutes a day there, 00:22:49.180 |
that we start to really touch into our unique gifts 00:22:58.340 |
But that so often we just stay in stimulus response. 00:23:09.740 |
And interestingly, he also put forward this idea 00:23:14.180 |
of what is this, like get up, shut up, suit up? 00:23:17.660 |
Like get out of bed, suit up and shut up and get to work. 00:23:21.460 |
He also has that in him, kind of a Goggins type mindset. 00:23:25.340 |
- So be able to turn off all this self-reflection 00:23:29.980 |
- Get shit done, but then also take dedicated time 00:23:32.900 |
and stop and just let stuff geyser to the surface 00:23:43.820 |
and in exactly the way needed to drive home a point. 00:23:54.060 |
if I don't wake up tomorrow for whatever reason, 00:23:57.180 |
that one's in the can and I feel really great about it. 00:24:00.260 |
To me, it's the most important guest recording 00:24:13.540 |
chances are he's got another, what, 20, 30 years with us, 00:24:21.100 |
But I really, really wanted to capture that information 00:24:27.520 |
And he's the kind of guy that anyone listens to him, 00:24:35.060 |
- What do you think about this idea of the shadow? 00:24:56.820 |
And some people are more in touch with those than others 00:25:04.080 |
you know, horrible people or marvelous people, 00:25:33.780 |
we have these unconscious blind spots of denial 00:25:55.140 |
But looking inward and recognizing what's there 00:26:11.940 |
What place do you go to that generates ideas, 00:26:27.520 |
I tried to adopt his practice of staying very still 00:26:32.700 |
or the Dicerothian way of formulating complete sentences 00:26:42.420 |
is what my good friend Tim Armstrong does to write music. 00:26:49.140 |
He's obviously a singer, guitar player for Rancid. 00:27:01.000 |
And many of the famous songs that you've heard 00:27:07.040 |
Tim wakes up sometimes in the middle of the night, 00:27:11.140 |
and what he does is he'll start drawing or painting. 00:27:14.240 |
So what he's done, and Joni Mitchell talks about this too, 00:27:23.180 |
from your main creative outlet, and you do that thing. 00:27:35.740 |
my mind starts churning on the nervous system and biology, 00:27:47.680 |
Right now, I'm very interested in autonomic control. 00:27:51.980 |
to control their pupil sizes without changing luminance 00:28:00.660 |
over their so-called automatic autonomic nervous system. 00:28:03.820 |
And I've been looking at what the circuitry is, 00:28:05.620 |
and it's beautiful, so I'll draw the circuitry 00:28:17.340 |
published in Nature Press, one of the nature journals, 00:28:22.600 |
and then how could this be put into a kind of a post, 00:28:27.040 |
so doing things that are about 15 degrees off-center 00:28:29.460 |
from your main thing is a great way to access, 00:28:35.840 |
I think for Joni Mitchell, that was also the case, right? 00:28:49.120 |
Do you have anything that you like to focus on 00:28:56.020 |
- No, I really like to focus on emptiness and silence, 00:29:10.680 |
And if there's no, if you're tired, I'll just sit. 00:29:25.880 |
but there needs to be a silence and an emptiness. 00:29:36.040 |
like how do I design this thing to solve this problem? 00:29:53.740 |
to have a lot of different choices, so water. 00:29:59.120 |
There's water, there's Element, which they now have canned. 00:30:03.640 |
And yes, they're a podcast sponsor for both of us, 00:30:05.480 |
but that's not why I cracked one of these open. 00:30:11.520 |
That's the reason it's still left in the fridge. 00:30:20.560 |
and pulled the sled from my workout at the gym, 00:30:22.600 |
and it was hot today here in Austin, so some salt is good. 00:30:33.680 |
Half-Argentine, been drinking mate since I was a little kid. 00:30:36.660 |
There's actually a photo somewhere on the internet 00:30:38.200 |
when I'm like three, sitting on my grandfather's lap, 00:30:46.160 |
with a scoop of, Brian Johnson gave me cocoa, 00:30:56.960 |
and since we're not going out to dinner tonight until later, 00:31:08.740 |
so now he's injecting BPC, Body Protection Compound 157, 00:31:12.240 |
which many, many people are taking, by the way. 00:31:21.240 |
is angiogenesis, like development of new vasculature, 00:31:28.960 |
you don't really wanna vascularize that tumor anymore. 00:31:31.560 |
So I worry about people taking BPC 157 continually, 00:31:39.200 |
I think there's like one study, and it's a lousy one. 00:31:43.200 |
Some of the peptides are interesting, however. 00:31:46.280 |
There's one that I've experimented with a little bit 00:31:51.640 |
even if I've just taken it twice a week before sleep, 00:31:59.800 |
because then on other days, when I don't take it, 00:32:11.240 |
but I stay out of things that really stimulate 00:32:14.960 |
any of the major hormone pathways when it comes to peptides. 00:32:27.040 |
and I have been doing a lot of things for a long time, 00:32:29.360 |
so if I add something in, it's always one thing at a time, 00:32:31.760 |
and I notice right away if it does not make me feel good. 00:32:35.840 |
about some of the so-called growth hormone secretagogues, 00:32:42.800 |
I've experimented a little bit with those in the past, 00:32:44.960 |
and they've nuked my rapid eye movement sleep, 00:32:49.400 |
which doesn't feel good to me, but other people like them. 00:32:52.920 |
I also just generally try and avoid taking peptides 00:32:59.520 |
because you can run into all sorts of issues, 00:33:04.600 |
I know if I like something or I don't, and then I move on. 00:33:07.420 |
But I am not super adventurous with these things. 00:33:10.300 |
I know people that will take cocktails of peptides 00:33:17.340 |
But also, I'm mainly reading papers and podcasting, 00:33:23.240 |
and I'm teaching a course next spring at Stanford. 00:33:29.860 |
so I'm trying to develop that course and things like that. 00:33:38.460 |
which is not that much weight or far as it is. 00:33:40.780 |
- All right, you're not going to the Olympics. 00:33:45.420 |
- No, and I'm not trying to get down below whatever, 00:33:52.420 |
So hydration, electrolytes, caffeine in the form of mate, 00:33:57.260 |
And then here's one that I think I brought out 00:33:59.660 |
for discussion, this is a piece of Nicorette. 00:34:12.620 |
But nicotine is gaining in popularity like crazy, 00:34:16.020 |
mainly these pouches that people put in the lip. 00:34:26.320 |
this was in 2010, I was visiting Columbia Medical School, 00:34:29.920 |
and I was in the office of the great neurobiologist, 00:34:36.940 |
for the discovery of the molecular basis of olfaction. 00:34:41.820 |
He's probably in his late 70s now, probably, yeah. 00:34:49.060 |
And he said, "Oh, well, this was just anecdote, right?" 00:34:53.740 |
"it protects against Parkinson's and Alzheimer's." 00:35:04.040 |
but then he quit smoking 'cause he didn't want lung cancer. 00:35:16.780 |
You have to just pop the whole thing in your mouth. 00:35:18.880 |
So I'll do a couple milligrams every now and again. 00:35:24.000 |
on an empty stomach in particular, but you fast all day. 00:35:29.220 |
- Yeah, I did a nicotine pouch with Rogan at dinner. 00:35:37.800 |
I know people that get a canister of Zyn, take one a day. 00:35:42.220 |
Pretty soon, they're taking a canister a day. 00:35:55.620 |
sometimes your throat will feel a little bit like, 00:36:00.900 |
And so, you know, if you're a singer or you're a podcaster 00:36:08.060 |
keep it in your cheek and, you know, here we go. 00:36:14.140 |
In a way, that was a little bit scary 'cause-- 00:36:19.900 |
in basal forebrain, nucleus has cholinergic neurons 00:36:27.180 |
that release acetylcholine into the neocortex and elsewhere. 00:36:30.820 |
And when you focus on one particular topic matter 00:36:36.780 |
or listening to something and focusing visually, 00:36:41.580 |
of the amount of acetylcholine released there 00:36:43.620 |
and it binds to nicotinic acetylcholine receptor sites there. 00:36:58.500 |
- And the time I had Tucker Carlson on the podcast, 00:37:03.620 |
as he said publicly, keep his love life vibrant. 00:37:12.220 |
- Well, he literally said it makes his dick very hard. 00:37:17.820 |
about Tucker Carlson's sex life, no disrespect. 00:37:23.840 |
The major effect of nicotine on the vasculature, 00:37:28.480 |
my understanding is that it causes vasoconstriction, 00:37:32.880 |
Drugs like Cialis, Tadalafil, Viagra, et cetera, 00:37:39.160 |
Nicotine does the opposite, less blood flow to the periphery, 00:37:46.400 |
And I don't recommend people use it frequently or at all. 00:37:58.080 |
And certainly smoking, dipping, vaping, and snuffing 00:38:02.760 |
aren't good because you're gonna run into trouble 00:38:12.000 |
Probably safer than smoking, but has its own issues. 00:38:19.320 |
You can't say anything as a health science educator 00:38:23.360 |
It just depends on where the center of mass is 00:38:30.280 |
And actually, it's a really big part of my life. 00:38:35.400 |
that people wait a bit in the morning to consume caffeine. 00:38:38.880 |
- If they experience a crash in the afternoon, 00:39:31.360 |
I mean, it depends on the intensity of the workout. 00:39:41.280 |
- So you're saying it doesn't affect your energy 00:39:46.720 |
and wake yourself up with exercise if you start early, 00:39:57.740 |
because then in the afternoon when you're doing 00:40:04.260 |
then oftentimes your brain isn't firing as well. 00:40:14.160 |
And then there's this phenomenon called entrainment 00:40:17.080 |
where if you force yourself to exercise or eat 00:40:23.960 |
at a certain time of day for three to seven days in a row, 00:40:30.320 |
This is why anyone in theory can become a morning person 00:40:39.760 |
of why you wake up before your alarm clock goes off. 00:40:42.320 |
People wake up and all of a sudden it goes off. 00:40:45.040 |
it's because you have this incredible timekeeping mechanism 00:40:49.720 |
And there's some papers that have been published 00:40:54.160 |
that people can answer math problems in their sleep, 00:40:56.560 |
simple math problems, but math problems nonetheless. 00:41:01.480 |
This does not mean that if you ask your partner a question 00:41:03.560 |
in sleep that they're gonna answer accurately. 00:41:06.720 |
- Like they might screw up the whole cumulative probability 00:41:17.360 |
A few years back, I did a four and a half hour, 00:41:30.640 |
and by the way, I'm very proud of that episode. 00:41:36.680 |
they now have children as a consequence of that episode. 00:41:43.860 |
- We should say that it's four and a half hours. 00:41:47.320 |
And for people, and they should listen to the episode, 00:42:00.340 |
- It talks about sperm health, spermatogenesis. 00:42:06.380 |
that are considered absolutely supported by science. 00:42:22.360 |
But there's this one portion there in the podcast 00:42:29.500 |
of a successful pregnancy as a function of age. 00:42:37.140 |
in which I was describing cumulative probability. 00:42:41.700 |
we've published cumulative probability histograms 00:42:45.380 |
including one that was a Nature article in 2018. 00:42:49.900 |
between independent and cumulative probability. 00:42:58.980 |
unfortunately combined to like a pretty great gaffe 00:43:05.860 |
I said, you're just adding percentages, 20 to 120%. 00:43:14.320 |
I said, 120%, but that's a different thing altogether. 00:43:18.300 |
What I should have said was that's impossible. 00:43:39.300 |
which implied I didn't understand the difference 00:43:40.940 |
between independent and cumulative probability, 00:43:53.600 |
rather than just say everything I just said now, 00:43:59.180 |
hey folks, in an episode dated this on fertility, 00:44:04.900 |
Here is the formula for cumulative probability, 00:44:11.940 |
and I offered it as a teaching moment in two ways. 00:44:14.900 |
One, for people to understand cumulative probability. 00:44:17.580 |
It was sort of interesting to a number of people 00:44:38.780 |
This is like the old school way of hammering academics. 00:44:41.600 |
But the point being, it was a teaching moment. 00:44:46.060 |
Gave me an opportunity to say, hey, I made a mistake. 00:44:51.300 |
where I did a micron to millimeter conversion 00:44:56.500 |
And we always correct these in the show note captions. 00:45:00.100 |
Unfortunately on YouTube, it's harder to correct. 00:45:07.900 |
If you make a mistake, it's substantive and relate to data. 00:45:16.340 |
in all the thousands of hours of content we've put out, 00:45:20.540 |
I think I once said serotonin when I meant dopamine 00:45:25.700 |
And it's a reminder to be careful, to edit, double-check. 00:45:34.560 |
But it didn't feel good at first, but ultimately, 00:45:39.220 |
Long ago at Berkeley, when I was TAing my first class, 00:45:44.280 |
it was a biopsychology class, to be 1998 or 1999. 00:45:53.600 |
and a posterior lobe, actually it's a medial lobe too. 00:45:56.140 |
I had probably 500, 600 students in that lecture hall. 00:45:58.980 |
And I drew a chalkboard and I drew the two lobes 00:46:01.820 |
of the pituitary and I said, my back was to the audience. 00:46:04.580 |
I said, you know, and so they just sort of hang there 00:46:10.100 |
'cause it looked like a scrotum with two testicles. 00:46:14.940 |
I don't think I can turn around, I can face this, you know. 00:46:19.100 |
And I'm like, oh, I got to turn around sooner or later. 00:46:21.640 |
So I turned around and we just all had a big laugh together. 00:46:27.040 |
they never forgot about the two lobes of the pituitary. 00:46:29.820 |
- Yeah, and you haven't forgotten about that either. 00:46:32.740 |
- Right, there's a high salience for these kinds of things. 00:46:36.260 |
And it also was kind of fun to see how excited people get 00:46:44.260 |
It's like an elite sprinter trips and does something stupid, 00:46:50.240 |
And, or, you know, I recall at one World Cup match years ago, 00:47:00.220 |
Some South American or Central American team. 00:47:13.000 |
- Scored against his own team in 1994 World Cup 00:47:17.740 |
Just 27 years old, playing for the Columbia national team. 00:47:35.380 |
So, you know, how forgiving are we for online mistakes? 00:48:14.060 |
I mean, you know, I think there's a lot of errors 00:48:17.340 |
out there on the internet, and people are finding them, 00:48:19.660 |
and it's cool, like things are getting cleaned up. 00:48:21.740 |
- Yeah, but mistakes nevertheless will happen. 00:48:23.860 |
Are you, do you feel the pressure of not making mistakes? 00:48:28.860 |
- Sure, I mean, you know, I try and get things right 00:48:32.380 |
to the best of, you know, to the best of my ability. 00:48:36.660 |
It's kind of interesting when people really don't like 00:48:41.340 |
a lot of times I chuckle 'cause I'm, you know, 00:48:59.740 |
and then I'll find the overlap in the Venn diagram, 00:49:04.720 |
Do I just stay with the overlap in the Venn diagram? 00:49:09.940 |
I didn't know this until I researched that episode, 00:49:17.420 |
There's a bacteria that causes cavity streptococcus, 00:49:23.540 |
into other parts of the body through the mouth 00:49:28.140 |
There's the idea that some forms of dementia, 00:49:30.460 |
some forms of heart disease start in the mouth, basically. 00:49:34.380 |
I talked to no fewer than four dentists, dental experts, 00:49:50.320 |
especially if you provide the right substrates for it. 00:49:55.640 |
that has all this capacity to remineralize teeth, 00:50:02.340 |
killing off some of the critical things you need. 00:50:04.560 |
It's fascinating, and I put out that episode thinking, 00:50:06.400 |
oh, I'm not a dentist, I'm not an oral health episode, 00:50:09.900 |
There's a terrific one, Dr. Downscore Stacey, 00:50:17.200 |
Talked to some others, and then I just waited for the attack. 00:50:29.880 |
More often than not, if I do an episode about, 00:50:32.080 |
say, psilocybin or MDMA, you get some people liking it, 00:50:37.800 |
We did a whole episode on the Ritalin, Vyvanse, 00:50:42.460 |
You know, I prescribed this to my kid, and it really helps. 00:50:45.360 |
But they're private about the fact that they do it 00:50:48.900 |
because they get so much attack from other people. 00:50:52.100 |
So I like to find the center of mass, report that, 00:51:03.200 |
What's frustrating for me is when I see claims 00:51:08.140 |
that I'm against fluoridization of water, which I'm not. 00:51:13.100 |
It builds hyper-strong bonds within the teeth. 00:51:21.220 |
but essentially the micron and submicron structure of teeth. 00:51:26.220 |
It's incredible, and where fluoride can get in there 00:51:33.160 |
like hydroxyapatite, and why is there fluoride in water? 00:51:36.360 |
Okay, you say some things that are interesting, 00:51:41.200 |
like you're against fluoridization, which I'm not, 00:51:43.720 |
or I've been accused of being against sunscreen. 00:51:49.120 |
I don't wanna get skin cancer, or I use a physical barrier. 00:52:00.000 |
So we're talking about there are certain sunscreens 00:52:01.640 |
that are problematic, and Rhonda Patrick's now 00:52:07.040 |
and so there's certain topics it's interesting for which 00:52:09.840 |
you have to listen carefully to what somebody is saying, 00:52:15.760 |
but there's a lumping as opposed to splitting 00:52:21.880 |
and so it just seems like, like with politics, 00:52:24.480 |
there's this urgency to just put people into a camp 00:52:37.760 |
but I know that I'm gonna piss certain people off, 00:52:50.160 |
then you aren't gonna get the newest information out there. 00:52:54.280 |
Like peptides, there's very little human data 00:52:56.160 |
unless you're talking about Vilese or the melanin, 00:53:00.640 |
stimulating hormone stuff which are prescribed 00:53:08.520 |
With rare exception, there's very little human data, 00:53:13.520 |
and a lot of people are taking and doing these things, 00:53:20.000 |
but research what the communities are talking, 00:53:22.120 |
what the various communities are talking about? 00:53:23.780 |
Like maybe research what the conspiracy theorists 00:53:29.580 |
all the armies that are going to be attacking your castle. 00:53:36.720 |
that believe that like if you consume seed oils 00:53:39.460 |
or something that like you're setting up your skin 00:53:46.620 |
but I like to, so I like to know what the theories are. 00:53:50.580 |
but I also like to know what the standard conversation is, 00:53:53.440 |
but there's generally more agreement than disagreement. 00:53:56.720 |
I think where, you know, I've been kind of bullish actually 00:54:04.100 |
Well, there's food supplements, like a protein powder, 00:54:06.580 |
just different than a vitamin, and then there are compounds. 00:54:18.660 |
and for safety with more rigor than others, you know, 00:54:27.940 |
who take care of themselves and put a lot of work into that 00:54:34.300 |
Also, one of the most controversial topics nowadays 00:54:43.300 |
health wellness community is so against these things. 00:54:46.200 |
I also don't understand why they have to be looked at 00:54:49.820 |
For some people, they've really helped them lose weight, 00:54:56.180 |
but that can be offset with resistance training. 00:54:59.740 |
and other people are like, "No, this stuff is terrible." 00:55:02.380 |
I think the most interesting thing about Ozempic, Munjaro 00:55:06.500 |
They're in the GLP-1 pathway, glucagon-like peptide one, 00:55:17.100 |
and someone, now the entomologist will dive on me. 00:55:24.020 |
and they figured out that there's this peptide 00:55:32.180 |
and it has a lot of homology, sequence homology, 00:55:42.700 |
that can help people with obesity and type 2 diabetes, 00:55:45.100 |
and there's evidence that can even curb some addictions. 00:55:49.380 |
Those are newer data, but I don't see it as either/or. 00:55:54.260 |
at the way that the, whatever you want to call it, 00:56:00.700 |
It's like, they're like, "Just get out and run." 00:56:07.540 |
They get on these drugs and they can improve, 00:56:09.700 |
and then hopefully they're also doing resistance training 00:56:12.500 |
and then you're bringing all the elements together. 00:56:14.540 |
- Well, why do you think the criticism is happening? 00:56:18.540 |
so people are misusing it or that kind of thing? 00:56:20.500 |
- No, I think what it is is that people think 00:56:31.300 |
and it wouldn't it be wonderful to kind of like 00:56:35.620 |
You know, what I would like to see in politics 00:56:41.900 |
but what we can just call a league of reasonable people 00:56:44.540 |
that looks at things on an issue-by-issue basis 00:56:50.740 |
are, I don't wanna say center in a political way, 00:56:54.580 |
They want to be reasonable, but that's not what sells clicks. 00:57:01.260 |
But I'm a very, like, I look at issue-by-issue, 00:57:11.180 |
and it always sounds like a political statement, 00:57:19.980 |
If there's one thing that's discouraging to me 00:57:24.740 |
wow, are we ever gonna get out of this, like, polarization? 00:57:34.380 |
how to interview the people involved and do it well. 00:57:56.820 |
would love to see Joe Biden go on Joe Rogan also. 00:58:00.020 |
- I would imagine that both would go on, but separately. 00:58:02.940 |
- Separately, I think it's, I think a debate, 00:58:06.500 |
Joe does debates, but I think Joe at his best 00:58:23.180 |
but when I mean long-form, I mean really long-form, 00:58:50.860 |
we talked about the shadow, the good, the bad, and the ugly. 00:59:13.100 |
which Rogan is the best by far in the world at that. 00:59:25.980 |
and the number, I mean the three or four podcasts per week, 00:59:30.420 |
plus the UFC announcing, plus comedy tours in stadiums, 00:59:34.340 |
plus doing comedy shows in the middle of the week, 00:59:39.180 |
plus a husband, and a father, and a friend in jiu-jitsu, 00:59:52.940 |
to know the people that are running for office 00:59:56.700 |
in a different way, and to really get to know them. 01:00:10.140 |
does that mean you're gonna be podcasting from jail? 01:00:13.580 |
in fact, I'm going to figure out how to commit a crime 01:00:18.940 |
- Well, that's, I'm sure they have visitors, right? 01:00:23.980 |
to get the interview, but yeah, I understand. 01:00:34.860 |
'cause you're my friend, but you would do a marvelous job. 01:00:37.220 |
I think you should sit down with all of them separately 01:00:43.940 |
Here's one thing that I found really interesting 01:00:49.740 |
When I'm in Los Angeles, I often get invited to these, 01:00:52.700 |
like, they're not dinners, but gatherings where, 01:00:55.660 |
you know, a local bunch of podcasters will come together, 01:00:59.900 |
but a lot of people from the entertainment industry, 01:01:05.420 |
many of the people have been on this podcast, 01:01:11.300 |
and what you find, if you look around the room 01:01:13.500 |
and you talk to people, is that about half the people 01:01:21.080 |
and they'll tell you exactly who they wanna see 01:01:37.660 |
Now, some people are very open about who they're for, 01:01:43.720 |
when you get people one-on-one, they're, like, telling you 01:01:46.300 |
they want X candidate to win, or Y candidate to win, 01:01:57.540 |
people's political leanings is often exactly wrong, 01:02:06.300 |
And I've seen that on university campuses, too. 01:02:09.660 |
And so, it's gonna be really, really interesting 01:02:19.940 |
Most people, whether they're center-left or center-right, 01:02:26.420 |
Who is gonna be the next big candidate in years to come? 01:02:32.320 |
Right now, I don't see or know of that person. 01:02:42.140 |
Another way to ask that question, who would want to be? 01:02:50.320 |
where you're just trying to dunk on the other team 01:02:52.920 |
so that nobody notices the shit that you fucked up? 01:03:24.320 |
But I don't even know who the viable candidates are. 01:03:52.600 |
Forgive me for not remembering your future wife's name. 01:04:04.080 |
with a poem inscribed in it. - That just shows 01:04:08.360 |
between the two. - With a poem inscribed in it. 01:04:13.360 |
- I realize everything we bring up on the screen 01:04:23.480 |
- Sure, let's go to Nature's Metal Instagram. 01:04:28.480 |
We actually did a collaborative post on a shark thing. 01:04:33.160 |
- So to generate the fear VR stimulus for my lab, 01:04:41.920 |
we went down to Guadalupe Island off the coast of Mexico. 01:04:51.600 |
and we used 360 video to build VR of great white sharks, 01:05:05.200 |
and that was the year that I exited the cage. 01:05:14.840 |
I had a whole mess with an air failure the day before. 01:05:17.320 |
I was breathing from a hookah line while in the cage. 01:05:27.960 |
But the next day, because I didn't want to get PTSD, 01:05:31.480 |
the next day I cage exited with some other divers. 01:05:34.840 |
And it turns out with these great white sharks, 01:05:40.160 |
and then they'll veer off you if you swim toward them. 01:05:44.320 |
Well, in the evening, you've brought all the cages up, 01:05:54.520 |
We had one of the crew on board had a line in the water 01:06:24.440 |
Now, believe it or not, it looks like it missed, 01:06:26.660 |
It actually just cut that thing like a band saw. 01:06:32.320 |
Yeah, and so when you look at it from the side, 01:06:35.320 |
you really get a sense of the girth of this freaking thing. 01:06:40.800 |
So as it comes up, if you look at the size of that thing, 01:06:44.680 |
and they move through the water with such speed, 01:06:49.480 |
and the cage is lowered down below the surface, 01:06:54.760 |
Some people do it, but, and then when you cage exit, 01:06:58.540 |
they're like, well, what are you doing out here? 01:06:59.900 |
And then, you know, you swim toward them, they veer off. 01:07:05.240 |
if you look at how they move through the water, 01:07:07.500 |
all it takes for one of these great white sharks, 01:07:09.440 |
when it sees a tuna or something it wants to eat, 01:07:11.880 |
is like two flicks of the tail and becomes like a missile. 01:07:24.720 |
this woman who dove with enormous great white sharks, 01:07:32.080 |
She and her husband, Juan, I believe his name is, 01:07:42.320 |
And actually, the air failure the day before, 01:07:47.200 |
I told myself after coming up from the cage exit, that's it. 01:07:52.400 |
Got back across the border a couple days later. 01:07:58.300 |
But yeah, MacDougall, Matt MacDougall shot that video, 01:08:01.160 |
and then it went "viral" through "Nature is Metal." 01:08:07.360 |
- Actually, I saw a video where an instructor 01:08:11.960 |
was explaining how to behave with a shark in the water, 01:08:19.040 |
- And then you wanna be acting like a predator 01:08:23.800 |
Now, if you don't see them, they're ambush predators. 01:08:41.800 |
and the shark attack map shows that, you know, 01:08:50.960 |
There's been a couple in Northern California. 01:08:54.000 |
but most of them are in Florida and Australia. 01:08:57.520 |
- So the Surfrider Foundation shark attack map, 01:09:03.260 |
- So they look like, they have all these scars on them. 01:09:19.400 |
If you zoom in on this one, I read about this. 01:09:26.320 |
50-year-old male, he was in chest-high water. 01:09:32.760 |
You know, he's just, three members of the party 01:09:38.800 |
was in his chest-high water, 25 to 50 yards from shore. 01:09:55.040 |
- But if it doesn't happen six times in a row, 01:10:02.000 |
- Are penguins a saltwater crocodile or a shark? 01:10:09.480 |
Muller, Michael Muller, who dove all over the world, 01:10:11.320 |
he sent me a picture of him diving with salties, 01:10:19.840 |
Have you seen the size of some of those saltwater crocs? 01:10:46.280 |
- I was gonna talk shit and say that a saltie 01:10:48.560 |
has way more bite force, but according to the internet, 01:10:53.120 |
recently data indicates that the shark has a stronger bite. 01:11:06.880 |
is probably not that, you know, turning around, 01:11:18.200 |
and you'll look at one, and you'll see its eye 01:11:21.760 |
They can't really fovee it, but they'll look at you. 01:11:23.560 |
And you're tracking it, and then you'll look down, 01:11:28.000 |
They're ambush preys, they're working together. 01:11:32.440 |
- I like how you know that they can't fovee it. 01:11:36.160 |
You're already considering the vision system there. 01:11:39.520 |
- Very primitive, eyes on the side of the head. 01:11:50.040 |
Yeah, I spend far too much time thinking about 01:11:53.680 |
and learning about the visual systems of different animals. 01:11:56.040 |
If you get me going on this, we'll be here all night. 01:11:58.280 |
- See, this is why I have the smuggled out tooth. 01:12:06.040 |
Yeah, I can't say I ever saw one with teeth this big, 01:12:29.400 |
so what's the contingency plan if somebody catches a bite? 01:12:33.080 |
And they were like, he was like every man for himself, 01:12:37.240 |
if somebody catches a bite, that's it, you know? 01:12:39.800 |
Anyway, I thought we were gonna bring up something happy. 01:12:48.040 |
We lived, but you know, there are happy things. 01:12:58.400 |
It's like, maybe this is actually a good time 01:13:02.520 |
I've never done ayahuasca, but I'm curious about it. 01:13:14.280 |
and that for you, it wasn't the dark, scary ride 01:13:19.080 |
- Yeah, it was an incredible experience for me. 01:13:25.440 |
I just did small-dose psilocybin a couple times. 01:13:30.640 |
I was very scared. - Yeah, understandably so. 01:13:37.360 |
- So, I mean, I was nervous about whatever demons 01:13:40.560 |
might hide in the shadow, in the Jungian shadow. 01:13:43.600 |
Like, I was nervous, but I think it turns out, 01:13:47.160 |
I don't know what the lesson is to draw from that, 01:13:54.040 |
I mean, there's also something to the jungle. 01:14:04.540 |
I forgot time, because when you don't have your phone, 01:14:08.800 |
you don't have meetings or calls or whatever, 01:14:17.560 |
You know, every mammalian species has a short wavelength. 01:14:21.640 |
So you think like blue UV type, but like absorbing cone, 01:14:33.320 |
you've got short wavelength and long wavelength light. 01:14:37.200 |
it's got blues and yellows, orange and yellows. 01:14:38.760 |
You look in the evening, reds, orange, and blues, 01:14:41.560 |
and in the middle of the day, it's like full-spectrum light. 01:14:51.700 |
that difference between the different wavelengths of light 01:14:54.960 |
is the fundamental signal that the neurons in your eye 01:15:01.320 |
At the core of our brain, in the suprachiasmatic nucleus, 01:15:11.080 |
That's the biological timer, which makes perfect sense, 01:15:13.360 |
because obviously, as the planets spin and revolve. 01:15:20.580 |
you know, in the rainforest, the sun is not visible often, 01:15:34.100 |
will signal the timing of activity of other species. 01:15:37.020 |
But yeah, getting out from the canopy is critical. 01:15:41.900 |
Of course, even under the canopy during the daytime, 01:15:46.980 |
You know, this is always when I'm telling people 01:15:51.200 |
People say, "There's no light, no sunlight this time of year." 01:15:55.480 |
It's far brighter than it is at night, right? 01:16:08.260 |
it's linked to the rising and setting of the sun. 01:16:13.960 |
These are like, to me, the most interesting aspects 01:16:16.280 |
of having a human brain, as opposed to another brain. 01:16:37.280 |
Like, different activities bring us into fine slicing 01:16:43.600 |
Programming, or exercising, or researching, or podcasting. 01:16:47.280 |
But just how unbelievably fluid the human brain is 01:16:52.160 |
in terms of the aperture of the time-space window 01:17:01.160 |
one of the more valuable tools that we have access to 01:17:04.060 |
that we don't really leverage as much as we should, 01:17:09.280 |
you need to zoom out and see it as one element 01:17:12.880 |
within your whole lifespan, and that there's more to come. 01:17:19.400 |
because they can't see beyond the time domain they're in, 01:17:27.920 |
But, which is an interesting contrast in its own right. 01:17:35.020 |
while I have very little experience with them, 01:17:43.600 |
- Well, how to surf that wave is probably a skill. 01:17:49.600 |
and I think it's important, is not to resist. 01:17:52.220 |
I think, I understand what it means to resist a thing, 01:17:56.080 |
a powerful wave, and it's not going to be good, 01:17:59.240 |
So, I was ready for that, to relax through it. 01:18:04.560 |
from knowing how to relax in all kinds of disciplines, 01:18:10.360 |
playing piano and guitar when I was super young, 01:18:13.600 |
and then through jiu-jitsu, knowing the value of relaxation, 01:18:32.520 |
who's been doing some transcranial magnetic stimulation 01:18:34.920 |
and brain imaging on people who have taken Ibogaine. 01:18:46.680 |
but you close your eyes and you get a very high-resolution 01:18:50.360 |
image of actual events that happened in your life, 01:18:52.680 |
but then you have agency within those movies. 01:18:55.160 |
I think you have to be of healthy heart to be able to do it. 01:18:58.220 |
I think you have to be on a heart rate monitor. 01:18:59.560 |
It's not trivial, it's not like these other psychedelics. 01:19:03.040 |
But there's a wonderful group called Veteran Solutions, 01:19:08.360 |
that has used Iboga combined with some other psychedelics 01:19:19.640 |
And it's a group I've really tried to support 01:19:23.980 |
mainly by being vocal about the great work they're doing. 01:19:29.880 |
who are just like near cratered in their life 01:19:33.080 |
or zombied by PTSD and other things post-war, 01:19:37.380 |
get back a lightness or achieve a lightness and a clarity 01:19:50.320 |
from the opioid crisis settlement for Ibogaine research. 01:19:55.240 |
So this is like no longer, yeah, so if you look here, 01:20:06.440 |
- They were going to use the money to treat opioid. 01:20:10.440 |
50 billion, what, is on its way over the coming years. 01:20:15.600 |
- $50 billion is on its way to state and local government 01:20:19.320 |
The pool of funding comes from multiple legal statements 01:20:23.680 |
from manufacturing or selling opioid painkillers. 01:20:27.200 |
- Kentucky has some of the highest number of deaths 01:20:30.240 |
We're going to do psychedelic research with Ibogaine, 01:20:34.000 |
supporting research on illegal, illegal folks, 01:20:41.020 |
Well, sooner or later we'll get some happy news 01:20:56.160 |
- I was writing to you on WhatsApp multiple times 01:21:01.800 |
and then I was going to just like put it to Twitter, 01:21:05.120 |
But then of course you're far too classy for that. 01:21:08.880 |
- Well, jungle or not, one of the lessons is also, 01:21:21.040 |
- I was going to ask you, it's kind of a silly question, 01:21:35.120 |
- I don't know, I'm being patient about the whole thing. 01:21:37.920 |
- Red Planet ran that cartoon of you guys going to Mars. 01:21:53.080 |
But I just love humanity reaching onto the stars 01:22:04.920 |
- What about seeing different animal species? 01:22:12.480 |
where he takes portraits of all these different animals. 01:22:15.520 |
If people aren't already following him on Instagram, 01:22:31.160 |
'cause we don't want to project anything onto them, 01:22:58.240 |
Like I could look at this kind of stuff all day long. 01:23:05.440 |
but look how beautiful that little sucker is. 01:23:07.400 |
- How's your podcast with the Cookie Monster coming? 01:23:10.760 |
- Oh yeah, we've been in discussions with Cookie. 01:23:28.680 |
You know, it's like, it's just embodying the desire 01:23:31.560 |
for something, which is an incredible aspect of ourselves. 01:23:35.240 |
The other one is, you remember a little while ago, 01:23:43.960 |
And you know, the Surgeon General of the United States 01:23:46.160 |
had been talking about the loneliness crisis. 01:23:59.680 |
You know, so the different Sesame Street characters 01:24:02.120 |
really embody the different kind of aspects of self 01:24:05.120 |
through very like narrow neural circuit perspective. 01:24:28.560 |
on conversations with Sesame Street characters. 01:24:31.640 |
It's not, I know you'd like to talk to Vladimir Putin. 01:24:49.960 |
So I'm very interested in the use of animation 01:24:59.800 |
and there's a conservation aspect to it as well. 01:25:14.720 |
And every once in a while, look at that mountain lion. 01:25:20.320 |
and some of them remind me of certain people, right? 01:25:27.520 |
So like, okay, look at this cat, this civic cat. 01:25:53.880 |
like the influencers you see on Instagram, right? 01:26:09.200 |
This one kind of reminds me of you a little bit. 01:26:10.700 |
There's like a stoic nature to it, a curiosity. 01:26:13.720 |
So you can kind of feel like the essence of animals. 01:26:16.020 |
You don't even have to do psychedelics to get there. 01:26:19.520 |
He's like the behind the scenes of how it's actually. 01:26:27.320 |
Yeah, in the jungle, the diversity of life was also stark. 01:26:32.720 |
just the fact that most of those species are not identified 01:26:43.080 |
I mean, one of the reasons I love New York City so much, 01:26:51.200 |
If you've ever done scuba diving or snorkeling, 01:26:55.320 |
there's some little crab working on something. 01:27:03.280 |
Every once in a while, some big fish goes by. 01:27:06.920 |
But like most of the time, not a whole lot happens. 01:27:10.920 |
as I've been going back there more and more recently, 01:27:22.440 |
The GX1000 guys are these guys that bomb down hills. 01:27:32.240 |
These guys going down hills in San Francisco. 01:27:36.260 |
And unfortunately, occasionally someone will get hit 01:27:38.360 |
by a car, but GX1000, look, into intersections. 01:27:46.920 |
There's somebody looking out. - Into traffic. 01:27:59.500 |
- What's on your bucket list that you haven't done? 01:28:06.160 |
for a couple of weeks and write, which I've never done. 01:28:09.200 |
People talk about doing this, but I'm gonna do that. 01:28:13.040 |
Just the mental space of really dropping into writing. 01:28:15.400 |
- Like Jack Nicholson in "The Shining" cabin? 01:28:19.440 |
You know, before, I mean, I only started doing 01:28:21.600 |
public-facing anything, posting on Instagram in 2019, 01:28:41.500 |
So some of that, I'm trying to spend a bit more time 01:28:46.240 |
relatives on the East Coast, see my parents more. 01:29:07.480 |
Or give advice to yourself about how to find love 01:29:09.820 |
in this world, how to build a family and get there. 01:29:16.980 |
Yeah, well, obviously pick the right partner, 01:29:31.120 |
He's a new friend, but he's a friend who I met for a meal. 01:29:39.760 |
And his stuff has made it over here and we become friends. 01:29:42.920 |
And we went to lunch and we were talking about work 01:29:45.580 |
and being public facing and all this kind of thing. 01:29:52.240 |
I was like, "Oh yeah, I see your post with the kids. 01:29:55.160 |
And he said, he just looked at me, leaned in, 01:29:56.960 |
and he said, "It's the best gift you'll ever give yourself." 01:30:09.240 |
So, you know, that's good advice coming from, 01:30:11.760 |
excellent advice coming from somebody who's, you know, 01:30:30.160 |
and like live to be 200 or something, you know, 01:30:33.520 |
there's also the old fashioned way of, you know, 01:30:36.240 |
having children that live on and evolve a new legacy, 01:30:43.680 |
- Yeah, I think you would make an amazing dad. 01:30:48.000 |
And, you know, I've also gotten advice from friends 01:30:50.200 |
who are super high performing and have a lot of kids. 01:31:00.200 |
- Right, well, the chaos of kids is kind of the, 01:31:02.240 |
like it can either bury you or it can give you energy. 01:31:16.760 |
and they can be, you know, different form of chaos, 01:31:39.800 |
Or, you know, three, four times a week, you know. 01:31:45.720 |
You know, we're really look out for one another. 01:31:48.820 |
She's an amazing person, like truly an amazing person. 01:31:53.360 |
And has like raised her daughter in amazing ways. 01:32:05.120 |
They both really put a lot into the family aspect. 01:32:10.120 |
- Had a chance to spend time with a really amazing person 01:32:27.720 |
the guy who's talking about "Anxious Generation," 01:32:44.520 |
Not creating a commune or anything like that. 01:32:49.000 |
We were more or less, our brain wiring does best 01:32:52.500 |
when we are raised in small village type environments 01:32:56.040 |
where kids can forage, the whole free range kids idea. 01:32:58.680 |
And I grew up skateboarding and building forts 01:33:03.320 |
It would be so strange to have a childhood without that. 01:33:14.360 |
it will put more and more value to in-person interaction. 01:33:55.900 |
- Those are all such different flavors of experiences. 01:33:59.260 |
So, I'd love to live in New York City for a while. 01:34:01.260 |
I've always wanted to do that, and I will do that. 01:34:08.100 |
So, Colorado and Montana are high on my list right now. 01:34:31.980 |
And New York City, to me, I know it's got its issues, 01:34:35.820 |
Okay, I get it, but listen, I've never lived there, 01:34:43.980 |
- There is an energy to that city, and he represents that. 01:34:50.860 |
that is represented in New York City is great. 01:35:00.380 |
The joke was like, you have to be naked and on fire 01:35:05.920 |
But again, recently, I've noticed that San Francisco, 01:35:10.480 |
there's some community houses of people in tech 01:35:14.760 |
There's some community housing of people not in tech 01:35:17.880 |
that I've learned about and known people have lived there, 01:35:31.880 |
- So amidst all that, you still have to get shit done. 01:35:36.720 |
I've been really obsessed with tracking time recently, 01:35:45.840 |
and I'm very religious about making sure I get shit done. 01:35:54.280 |
So basically a spreadsheet, and I'm tracking daily, 01:35:57.120 |
and I write scripts that whenever I achieve a goal, 01:36:06.880 |
- No, just the fact that I got the workout done. 01:36:12.000 |
So I'm really, really big on making sure I do a thing. 01:36:18.320 |
So I have a rule for myself that I do a set of tasks 01:36:24.760 |
And it turns out that many of them I do way longer, 01:36:29.100 |
but just even just doing it, I have to do it every day. 01:36:37.380 |
Like one of them is playing guitar, for example. 01:36:49.400 |
I do this non-sleep deep rest yoga nidra thing 01:36:54.740 |
as audio tracks on Spotify, 10 minute, 20 minute ones. 01:36:59.300 |
Puts me back into a state that feels like sleep 01:37:03.060 |
Actually, Matt Walker and I are gonna run a study. 01:37:04.860 |
He's just submitted the IRB to run a study on NSDR 01:37:09.780 |
There's some evidence of increases in dopamine, et cetera, 01:37:12.340 |
but those are older studies, still cool studies. 01:37:17.260 |
And if I've got my act together, I punch some caffeine down. 01:37:22.400 |
Like some Matina, some coffee, maybe another Matina 01:37:28.160 |
run three days a week and then take one day off. 01:37:35.880 |
I actually have a sticky note on my computer. 01:37:38.960 |
It's like, just like reminding me how good it feels 01:37:46.480 |
and just fight tooth and nail to stay off social media, 01:37:56.600 |
Can you go like three hours, just deep focus? 01:38:01.120 |
- If I hit a groove, yeah, 90 minutes to three hours 01:38:15.720 |
And it's, I'm trying to hit the four hour mark 01:38:23.440 |
- Then often can't, I'm really, really big believer. 01:38:32.840 |
But I've sat across the table from you a couple of years ago 01:38:36.460 |
when I was out here in Austin doing some work 01:38:39.160 |
And I noticed you just like stare at your notebook sometimes 01:38:48.000 |
building that hydraulic pressure and then go. 01:38:50.620 |
- Yeah, I try and get something done of value. 01:38:55.060 |
and talking to my podcast producer, my team is everything. 01:38:59.040 |
I mean, like the magic potion in the podcast is Rob Moore, 01:39:05.460 |
Who's in the, has been in the room with me every single solo. 01:39:08.900 |
Costello used to be in there with us, but that's it. 01:39:16.300 |
And for guests interviews, he's there as well. 01:39:20.240 |
And I talk to Rob all the time, all the time. 01:39:31.120 |
in terms of partner choice and things like that. 01:39:36.700 |
But in terms of picking business partners and friends, 01:39:41.620 |
like to work with, I mean, Rob's just, it's been bullseyes. 01:39:49.100 |
Like we just communicate as much as we need to. 01:39:53.180 |
And we pour over every decision like near neuroticism 01:40:03.380 |
- Yeah, like a photo for the book jacket the other day, 01:40:06.980 |
Then, and then we look at them, we pour over them together. 01:40:10.940 |
Logo for the perform podcast with Andy Gallop. 01:40:13.060 |
And then we're launching like, is that the right contour? 01:40:14.740 |
Mike's the real, he's got the aesthetic thing. 01:40:17.060 |
'Cause he was at DC so long as a portrait photographer. 01:40:20.020 |
And he's cute, he's close friends with Ken Block, 01:40:23.300 |
to Jim Cona, like all the car jumping in the city stuff. 01:40:37.280 |
By the way, that whole Jawserciser thing of me saying, 01:40:43.900 |
Like I would never call it number off somebody, 01:40:50.940 |
But like our sponsors, we list the sponsors that we have 01:40:55.020 |
And like the decision, do we work with this person or not? 01:41:00.620 |
'cause of like changes in the product or, you know, 01:41:08.640 |
And that just takes a ton of time and energy. 01:41:15.420 |
out of the other discussions 'cause I obsess. 01:41:26.100 |
But one of the challenges, the larger the team is, 01:41:28.780 |
and I'd like to be involved in a lot of different kinds 01:41:31.400 |
of stuff, including engineering stuff, robotics work, 01:41:33.540 |
research, all of those interactions, at least for me, 01:41:38.540 |
take away from the deep work, the deep focus. 01:41:41.980 |
Unfortunately, I get drained by social interaction, 01:41:45.540 |
even with the people I love and really respect 01:41:57.100 |
And I have to choose wisely because without collaboration, 01:41:59.480 |
without a great team, which I'm fortunate enough 01:42:01.980 |
to be a part of, like you wouldn't get anything really done. 01:42:04.980 |
But as an individual contributor to get stuff done, 01:42:07.800 |
like to do the hard work of researching or programming, 01:42:10.860 |
all that kind of stuff, you need the hours of deep work. 01:42:16.100 |
That's on my bucket list, spend a bit more time 01:42:25.780 |
I try and answer some comments and then get back to work. 01:42:39.980 |
maybe like one week a month not using social media at all. 01:42:46.060 |
I'll eat some lunch and I'll usually do something 01:42:47.980 |
while I'm doing lunch or something and then a bit more work 01:42:52.480 |
And then around 2.30, I do a non-sleep deep rest, 01:42:58.860 |
maybe a little more caffeine and then lean into it again. 01:43:03.300 |
And then I find if you really put in the deep work, 01:43:07.420 |
two or three bouts per day by about five or 6 p.m., 01:43:11.180 |
I was down at Jocko's place not that long ago 01:43:13.380 |
and in the evening did a sauna session with him 01:43:15.800 |
and some family members of his and some of their friends. 01:43:19.300 |
And it's really cool, like they'll work all day 01:43:21.300 |
and train all day and then in the evening they get together 01:43:25.680 |
I'm really into this whole thing of gathering 01:43:32.900 |
I have a gym at my house and Tim will come over and train 01:43:36.020 |
or that we've kind of slowed that down in recent months. 01:43:47.300 |
We're not saying anything that hasn't been said 01:43:55.060 |
to bring people together if it's not happening. 01:44:03.740 |
and there's a lot of people at the house, it was rad. 01:44:06.500 |
Actually, it was funny 'cause I was getting a massage 01:44:09.220 |
I don't sit around getting massages very often, 01:44:11.900 |
but I was getting one that day and then everyone came in 01:44:14.220 |
and the dog came in and like everyone was piled in. 01:44:19.580 |
But choose wisely the people you gather with. 01:44:32.060 |
- Yeah, yeah, the friends you surround yourself with. 01:44:47.480 |
I just saw somewhere, Conor McGregor has this good line. 01:44:54.780 |
He said, "Don't eat with people you wouldn't starve with." 01:45:01.380 |
All the shit talk, all of that, set that aside. 01:45:06.780 |
'Cause then if you invest in certain people in your life 01:45:21.580 |
It'll also show you who really has put in the time 01:45:26.160 |
to try and understand you and understand people. 01:45:31.420 |
I love that, so you can read the quote once more. 01:45:35.180 |
"Don't eat with people you wouldn't starve with." 01:46:26.460 |
You inspired me to do it, you told me to do it. 01:46:28.660 |
You did it, and you've also been an amazing friend. 01:46:32.060 |
You showed up in some very challenging times, 01:46:37.780 |
you've shown up for me in my home, in my life, 01:46:53.740 |
please check out our sponsors in the description. 01:47:02.340 |
it will direct your life, and you will call it fate. 01:47:05.680 |
Thank you for listening, and hope to see you next time.