MrBeast: Future of YouTube, Twitter, TikTok, and Instagram

00:00:00.000 | I'm here with Mr. Beast, the brilliant mastermind

00:00:03.280 | behind some of the most popular videos ever created.

00:00:06.560 | Do you think you'll ever make a video

00:00:07.720 | that gets one billion views?

00:00:09.480 | - I think maybe one of the videos we've already made

00:00:11.680 | might get a billion views.

00:00:13.520 | - Which one do you think?

00:00:14.400 | - Probably like the squid game video with enough time.

00:00:16.680 | I mean, it's only a year old and it's already on 300 million

00:00:18.680 | or some of the newer ones we've done

00:00:21.160 | have gotten like 100 million views in a month.

00:00:23.640 | So those four are projected over 10 years

00:00:26.160 | 'cause YouTube's not going anywhere.

00:00:27.520 | Probably one of those.

00:00:28.360 | Over time, they don't necessarily plateau.

00:00:30.480 | - That's interesting.

00:00:31.360 | We're literally jumping right into it.

00:00:32.600 | I love it.

00:00:33.440 | It's good.

00:00:34.280 | So I'm a firm believer that it's much easier

00:00:37.720 | to hypothetically get 10 million views on one video

00:00:40.400 | than 100,000 on 100.

00:00:42.520 | And part of why it's much easier in my opinion

00:00:44.280 | is like if you make a really good video,

00:00:45.840 | it's just so evergreen and it never dies.

00:00:47.960 | 'Cause YouTube, when you open up YouTube

00:00:50.520 | and look at the videos,

00:00:51.360 | they're just serving you whatever

00:00:52.600 | they think you'll like the best.

00:00:54.440 | And so if you just make a great video

00:00:56.320 | and it's constantly just above every other video,

00:01:00.160 | even two years down the road,

00:01:01.640 | then they'll just keep serving it and never stop.

00:01:04.080 | Which is why it's much easier to make one great video

00:01:06.040 | than a bunch of mediocre ones.

00:01:07.600 | - What about one billion subscribers?

00:01:10.040 | You've passed PewDiePie's

00:01:11.920 | the most subscribed to YouTube channel.

00:01:13.960 | When do you think you get a billion?

00:01:16.600 | - Let me do some math real quick.

00:01:18.040 | So around 120.

00:01:19.760 | - So you think about this?

00:01:20.840 | - No, I don't, honestly.

00:01:22.440 | 'Cause one thing you'll find

00:01:24.200 | if you wanna gain subscribers,

00:01:25.600 | if you wanna get views,

00:01:26.560 | if you wanna make money,

00:01:27.800 | almost any metric in this video creation space,

00:01:30.840 | if you want something,

00:01:32.200 | it all comes back to,

00:01:33.160 | okay, well then just make great videos.

00:01:34.800 | So instead of focusing

00:01:36.360 | on all these arbitrary vanity metrics,

00:01:38.560 | I just kind of focus on the one thing

00:01:39.800 | that gets me all that,

00:01:40.920 | which is make good videos.

00:01:42.160 | But I do think we will one day hit a billion subscribers.

00:01:44.960 | I don't have a plan on going anywhere.

00:01:46.800 | Even though we're only on 120 million right now

00:01:48.840 | on the main channel,

00:01:49.880 | I think we're doing around 10 million a month now

00:01:52.320 | and YouTube just, yeah,

00:01:54.640 | I just don't see it going anywhere.

00:01:56.000 | And I don't see any reason

00:01:57.320 | why I'd ever get burnt out or quit.

00:01:58.600 | So I think with enough time, yes.

00:02:00.880 | - I wanted to ask you those family-friendly questions

00:02:03.240 | before I go to the dark questions.

00:02:04.440 | So now--

00:02:05.280 | - Oh, we have dark questions.

00:02:06.960 | But if you wanted to hook them,

00:02:08.240 | you would start off with the dark questions.

00:02:09.840 | That's how you get them.

00:02:10.680 | - Okay, well, let me ask you about a Twitter poll you posted,

00:02:14.800 | a $10,000 death poll.

00:02:17.600 | You tweeted, "If someone offered you $10,000,

00:02:20.560 | but if you take it, a random person on Earth dies,

00:02:24.020 | would you take the $10,000?"

00:02:26.200 | And 45% of people said yes.

00:02:29.120 | That's, at least at the time I checked,

00:02:30.960 | 850,000 people committing murder

00:02:34.080 | for just $8.5 billion in total.

00:02:38.200 | So what do you learn about human nature from that?

00:02:41.080 | - That's a good question.

00:02:42.840 | Honestly, this is like late at night

00:02:45.440 | when I threw that up too.

00:02:46.280 | I was just like, huh, this will be a funny thing.

00:02:47.720 | I assumed it'd be 90% no and 10% yes,

00:02:51.120 | but there are a lot of serious people.

00:02:53.580 | For you guys listening, I just did this random Twitter poll

00:02:56.320 | where I was like, "Would you take 10 grand

00:02:58.520 | if it meant someone random in the world died?"

00:03:00.200 | And a lot of the replies on the tweet were like,

00:03:02.400 | "Hell yeah, why not?"

00:03:03.600 | And I was just not expecting that.

00:03:05.400 | And so I don't really know.

00:03:07.740 | I mean, I feel like your take would be better than mine.

00:03:09.600 | - Was it disturbing to you, surprising to you?

00:03:11.560 | - A little bit, yeah.

00:03:12.600 | But obviously a lot of people were trolling,

00:03:14.880 | but when you read through those replies,

00:03:17.160 | I do think like 10% of them were like dead serious.

00:03:20.000 | - Well, I think sometimes the trolling and the lulls

00:03:22.760 | reveal a thing we're too embarrassed to admit

00:03:26.160 | about the darker aspects of our nature.

00:03:28.320 | So I don't know if you listened

00:03:29.520 | to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast.

00:03:31.880 | He has a episode on painful attainment,

00:03:34.880 | which he describes throughout history

00:03:37.840 | how humans have been really attracted

00:03:39.600 | to watching the suffering of others.

00:03:41.600 | So public executions, all that kind of stuff.

00:03:45.400 | And he believes that's in all of us.

00:03:47.880 | That, for example, if something like a YouTube

00:03:50.720 | or a different platform streamed a public execution

00:03:55.280 | or streamed the torture of another human being,

00:03:58.540 | a lot of people would say that's deeply unethical,

00:04:01.880 | but they would still tune in and watch.

00:04:04.200 | And that we're attracted to that drama,

00:04:07.720 | and especially the most extreme versions of that drama.

00:04:10.280 | And so I think part of the lulls

00:04:13.280 | reveal something that's actually true in that poll.

00:04:15.880 | - Your answer's so much better than mine.

00:04:18.680 | - Do you think about that, maybe even with the Squid Game?

00:04:22.360 | So I think, how many views does the Squid Game

00:04:26.640 | currently have, 300 million?

00:04:28.040 | - Yeah, something like that. - Something like this?

00:04:30.020 | So just imagine, thought experiment,

00:04:35.020 | how many views that video would get

00:04:38.080 | if it was real, Squid Game.

00:04:39.480 | - Yeah, assuming YouTube was like,

00:04:41.120 | we'll turn a blind eye, we won't take it down.

00:04:43.480 | Yeah, I mean, obviously, it'd probably have

00:04:46.120 | billions of views.

00:04:47.000 | - How do you think you'll die,

00:04:48.000 | and do you think it'll be during a video?

00:04:49.840 | - Probably doing something dumb like going to space

00:04:52.120 | when I'm older, or trying to go to Mars,

00:04:54.240 | or something like that.

00:04:55.400 | I know for a fact it won't be on a video.

00:04:57.360 | Every video we do, we have safety experts

00:04:59.000 | and stuff like that, so it's not really risk.

00:05:00.920 | But yeah, I could see myself,

00:05:04.360 | after a million people go to Mars or something like that,

00:05:06.320 | I'd probably be like, you know what, let's go.

00:05:07.840 | And something like that, maybe.

00:05:09.520 | - So not in the name of a video, just for the holiday?

00:05:12.120 | - Heck no.

00:05:13.200 | - Are you open to taking risks when you shoot videos?

00:05:15.360 | You just went to Antarctica.

00:05:16.520 | I mean, you're putting yourself in the line

00:05:18.440 | a little bit, right?

00:05:19.280 | - Of course, but we've had that video

00:05:21.720 | on the works for three years,

00:05:22.680 | and then we consult with tons of experts,

00:05:24.480 | radar the entire path we're gonna walk beforehand

00:05:26.720 | to see if there's crevasses.

00:05:27.760 | So we know there's no crevasses,

00:05:29.480 | we do training, we consult with experts,

00:05:31.280 | and we have survival guides there with us,

00:05:33.000 | and monitor the weather and everything.

00:05:34.720 | So it's like, any variable where we could get harmed,

00:05:38.020 | we just pre-plan for it.

00:05:39.320 | Same thing with buried alive.

00:05:40.400 | Like, I had David Blaine spent a week underground,

00:05:43.860 | and so I consulted with him,

00:05:45.240 | and consulted with basically anyone

00:05:46.480 | who ever buried themselves alive.

00:05:47.960 | You know, the coffin we used to bury me,

00:05:50.080 | we did so many tests.

00:05:50.980 | Like, that coffin was buried 10 times before I was,

00:05:53.360 | you know, for way longer than 50 hours.

00:05:56.020 | It tested the airflow and everything,

00:05:57.440 | to the point where I was safer in that coffin underground

00:05:59.920 | than I was above ground.

00:06:01.000 | Like, so we just tend to just not leave anything

00:06:03.240 | up to chance, you know?

00:06:04.540 | - Another strange question then.

00:06:07.720 | So you recorded these videos to yourself,

00:06:10.980 | you know, five years, 10 years from now.

00:06:12.960 | Have you recorded a video that's to be released

00:06:15.960 | once you die?

00:06:17.360 | - Well, first off, I am just glad

00:06:19.640 | that not every one of your questions

00:06:20.800 | have to do with, like, views or things like that.

00:06:22.560 | It's nice getting different questions.

00:06:24.560 | So this is good.

00:06:26.440 | No, seriously-- - It's a little dark.

00:06:27.280 | It's a little dark. - No, no, but it's fine,

00:06:28.840 | because a lot of people just be like,

00:06:30.120 | "How much money do you make?"

00:06:31.080 | You know, it's just something I just,

00:06:32.320 | everything's always about money now,

00:06:34.200 | when people talk to me.

00:06:35.120 | So it's nice.

00:06:37.120 | But for the videos I've made,

00:06:39.200 | for you guys who probably don't follow me too closely,

00:06:41.820 | when I had 8,000 subscribers and I was a teenager,

00:06:44.460 | I filmed a bunch of videos

00:06:45.800 | and scheduled them years in the future.

00:06:47.560 | And I said, I filmed one where I was like,

00:06:49.320 | "High me in a year."

00:06:50.160 | And the video went up a year later.

00:06:51.640 | And it was just like, "Hey, I think you'll have

00:06:53.160 | "100,000 subscribers."

00:06:54.240 | And then I did one where I was like,

00:06:55.280 | "High me in five years."

00:06:56.720 | I was like, "Hey, in five years,

00:06:57.580 | "I think you'll have a million."

00:06:58.720 | And then one that hasn't come out yet,

00:07:00.340 | but comes out in two years,

00:07:01.540 | is what was "High me in 10 years."

00:07:03.320 | And I tried to predict 10 years later

00:07:04.800 | how many subs I'd have.

00:07:05.880 | That's what he's referring to.

00:07:06.920 | And yes, there are some that are scheduled

00:07:09.680 | like 20 years in the future.

00:07:11.440 | And so if I don't die, I'll just move them up.

00:07:13.680 | And I remember, 'cause I filmed these though,

00:07:15.960 | like seven years ago.

00:07:17.520 | But it was, I remember saying a line like,

00:07:20.760 | "You know, if I'm dead,

00:07:21.600 | "then I'm currently just in a coffin."

00:07:23.280 | And like, whatever, blah, blah, blah.

00:07:24.600 | And because the only way the video would go up

00:07:26.000 | is if I'm not alive.

00:07:27.500 | And if I'm not alive,

00:07:28.800 | then I won't be able to push back the schedule upload date.

00:07:30.960 | So it will go public automatically.

00:07:32.780 | And so, yeah, I have a couple of those.

00:07:35.160 | Like if I knew I was gonna die of like cancer or something,

00:07:39.200 | and I had like three months to live,

00:07:40.840 | I would vlog every day.

00:07:42.100 | I'd film so many videos,

00:07:43.240 | and then I would just schedule upload a video a week

00:07:45.120 | for like the next five years.

00:07:46.280 | So it's like I'm still alive.

00:07:47.680 | And I would completely act like I'm still alive

00:07:49.760 | and everything.

00:07:50.720 | And I think something like that would be cool.

00:07:53.760 | I don't know why, but I've fantasized,

00:07:56.000 | not fantasized, but I've dreamt about that a lot.

00:07:57.820 | Like, I don't know,

00:07:58.800 | if I only had 30 days to live, what would I do?

00:08:01.520 | And for me, I would try to make like a decade's worth

00:08:03.600 | of content and schedule upload it

00:08:05.360 | so they automatically go public in the future.

00:08:07.480 | And so it's just like I never died.

00:08:08.960 | I'm just there.

00:08:10.240 | - Yeah, it's a kind of immortality,

00:08:11.900 | but it's also a kind of troll on the concept of time.

00:08:16.040 | - Yeah.

00:08:16.880 | - That you can die in the physical space,

00:08:17.760 | but persist in the digital space.

00:08:19.900 | I actually, I recorded a video like that

00:08:22.140 | 'cause I had some concerns,

00:08:24.000 | and I just thought it's also a good exercise to do.

00:08:27.640 | A video would like to be released if I die.

00:08:31.160 | And it was actually a really interesting exercise.

00:08:33.560 | - It's cool.

00:08:34.400 | Like it shows like what you really care about.

00:08:35.760 | I guess it's like writing a will.

00:08:37.320 | But when you're younger,

00:08:38.160 | you don't think about that kind of stuff.

00:08:39.320 | - Exactly, mine was just dumb.

00:08:40.720 | - Yeah.

00:08:41.560 | - Like I'm bones in a coffin.

00:08:43.120 | - Yeah.

00:08:44.160 | - Yours was probably so serious.

00:08:45.820 | - No, it's fun actually.

00:08:46.760 | What you realize is like there's no point

00:08:48.280 | to be serious at this point.

00:08:49.640 | It's a weird thing.

00:08:51.400 | I guess you've done this,

00:08:52.340 | but it's a weird thing to address the world

00:08:54.080 | when you, the physically you, is no longer there.

00:08:56.360 | So like, you know this would only be released

00:08:59.040 | if you're no longer there.

00:09:00.080 | - Exactly.

00:09:00.920 | - That's a weird exercise.

00:09:01.740 | - You know what's funny?

00:09:02.580 | Like all the people listening to this,

00:09:03.920 | you know, we're probably the only two people

00:09:05.920 | that have made videos for when we die.

00:09:08.560 | It's like such a niche thing.

00:09:10.160 | And the fact that we're bonding over it's kind of funny.

00:09:12.280 | - I think people should think about doing that.

00:09:14.080 | It's not just about YouTube.

00:09:15.160 | It's also social media.

00:09:16.200 | Just think about it.

00:09:17.680 | Like there's gonna be a last tweet

00:09:19.720 | and a last, I don't know, Facebook post,

00:09:21.520 | a last Instagram post.

00:09:23.400 | And yeah, I feel like there's some aspects

00:09:27.880 | that's meditative to just even considering

00:09:31.120 | making a post like that.

00:09:32.320 | And also it's a way for the people that love you

00:09:35.260 | to kind of like celebrate.

00:09:37.140 | - Do you think that would help them cope or not?

00:09:39.780 | Like if someone randomly watching this did film a video,

00:09:42.740 | you know, for if they accidentally died

00:09:44.180 | in some freak accident to be given to their family,

00:09:46.020 | do you think that would, and it was like a genuine.

00:09:48.460 | - I think it would really help.

00:09:49.620 | I mean, it depends.

00:09:50.540 | Because like--

00:09:51.380 | - Like how would you even intro that?

00:09:52.200 | Like, hey mom, if you're seeing this,

00:09:54.180 | you know, it means I'm probably dead.

00:09:55.620 | - Yeah, exactly.

00:09:56.460 | That's how you intro it.

00:09:57.300 | (laughing)

00:09:58.120 | That's the opener.

00:09:58.960 | - I just want you to know, yeah, I guess.

00:10:01.580 | - Yeah, and I guess you could say it in a kind of funny way

00:10:03.540 | but, and just talk about the things

00:10:05.580 | that mean a lot to you.

00:10:07.380 | 'Cause otherwise you're at the risk

00:10:09.480 | of the last post you have is like,

00:10:11.980 | like, I don't know, talking shit about like--

00:10:13.980 | - Donald's screwed up my order.

00:10:14.820 | - McDonald's, exactly.

00:10:15.640 | (laughing)

00:10:16.480 | - And then you're dead, that's it, 100 years.

00:10:19.140 | - I don't know, I do recommend it.

00:10:21.320 | It's like the Stoics meditate on death every day

00:10:24.520 | in the same way you kind of meditate on your death

00:10:27.100 | when you make a video like that.

00:10:28.380 | 'Cause it's actually not just even talking to yourself,

00:10:30.140 | it's talking to the world.

00:10:31.740 | And it like, for some reason, at least for me,

00:10:34.400 | they made it very concrete that there's going to be an end.

00:10:38.160 | And I'm like, it's almost, it's over for me.

00:10:41.180 | If I'm making the video, it's over for me.

00:10:42.580 | It's an interesting thought experiment.

00:10:44.020 | I recommend people try it.

00:10:47.180 | Okay, are you afraid of death, by the way?

00:10:51.020 | - Yes, I, it's hard because,

00:10:54.560 | like, what if you just die

00:10:57.380 | and then you just see nothing forever, you know?

00:10:59.500 | - Yeah, the nothingness.

00:11:00.340 | - It just fades to blackness and you're just like that

00:11:02.140 | for trillions upon trillions to billions squared years.

00:11:05.500 | And it's just, it's scary.

00:11:07.840 | But also, before you're born,

00:11:09.220 | you don't remember those X amount of years either.

00:11:11.620 | So that gives me a little comfort.

00:11:14.260 | But no, it's definitely very scary.

00:11:16.460 | Something I'd rather not think about until I'm like 80.

00:11:18.980 | I'll deal with that problem then.

00:11:20.380 | I don't know if I told you this,

00:11:22.100 | but I'm kind of hopeful that someone like Elon

00:11:24.540 | or one of these like freak smart people

00:11:26.460 | would just like, be like, you know what, screw it.

00:11:28.220 | I'm gonna figure out a way where we can slow down aging,

00:11:30.860 | get it where, you know, we can live to be 200, 300 years old

00:11:33.140 | and just like set their sights on that

00:11:35.140 | and then just kind of save us.

00:11:36.740 | So it'd be really nice.

00:11:38.460 | Like, it's almost absurd to think that in our lifetime,

00:11:41.960 | they won't figure out a way

00:11:42.800 | to just even slightly slow down aging,

00:11:44.300 | where we could live to be like 120, 130.

00:11:46.460 | And then that extra time,

00:11:47.500 | they won't figure out some way

00:11:48.340 | where we could live to be 200.

00:11:49.500 | Like, obviously not immortal,

00:11:50.960 | but I don't see how in my lifetime,

00:11:53.860 | the life expectancy doesn't just expand.

00:11:56.860 | - But it also could be that the immortality is achieved

00:12:00.180 | in the digital realm.

00:12:01.220 | Like, it could be long after you're gone

00:12:03.860 | as a Mr. Beast run by a Chad GPT type system.

00:12:06.620 | - Exactly.

00:12:07.460 | Yeah, that consumes everything I ever said,

00:12:08.740 | everything I ever wrote.

00:12:10.020 | I don't want that.

00:12:10.860 | I don't wanna live.

00:12:11.860 | What are you smart people out there figuring out?

00:12:13.840 | I'll keep you entertained,

00:12:15.200 | but I need you to figure out how to keep me alive.

00:12:17.620 | Give me till 200.

00:12:18.780 | That will make me happy.

00:12:20.580 | - Well, that's funny.

00:12:21.540 | Who owns the identity of Mr. Beast

00:12:23.700 | once the physical body is gone?

00:12:25.740 | Like, is it illegal to create another Mr. Beast

00:12:28.420 | that's Chad GPT based?

00:12:29.700 | I don't know what the laws are on that.

00:12:31.260 | - Yeah.

00:12:32.100 | I mean, once I'm dead, I don't care.

00:12:33.620 | (laughs)

00:12:34.460 | - Well, you just said you did care.

00:12:36.900 | I mean, there could be a AI,

00:12:38.540 | like many Mr. Beasts that are created after you're gone.

00:12:41.860 | - Yeah.

00:12:42.700 | I mean, that'd be cool to be able to like train up a model

00:12:44.860 | and let them loose so my content lives on, I guess.

00:12:47.620 | Yeah.

00:12:48.460 | - Yeah.

00:12:49.420 | But it somehow feels like it diminishes

00:12:52.420 | the value you contribute.

00:12:53.580 | - Yeah, it's inauthentic, but it's also,

00:12:56.300 | there's some aspect to the finiteness of the art

00:13:00.260 | being necessary for its greatness.

00:13:02.300 | - Yeah.

00:13:03.140 | The second that thing starts spamming out videos,

00:13:04.900 | the videos lose all meaning and it's pointless

00:13:06.580 | and it's a money grab.

00:13:07.680 | - If you ran YouTube for, how long should you run it?

00:13:12.300 | For a year, how would you change it?

00:13:14.140 | How would you improve it?

00:13:15.100 | - It's hard because, you know, obviously I'm biased

00:13:17.700 | 'cause we're doing really well,

00:13:19.020 | but I feel like when I open up YouTube on my television,

00:13:22.420 | I get the videos I wanna watch.

00:13:24.180 | I don't know.

00:13:25.820 | I don't ever open it and wonder like, what are these?

00:13:29.300 | What are these 10 videos on my homepage?

00:13:31.340 | When I click on a video, I don't ever wonder what these are.

00:13:34.340 | And maybe it's 'cause I'm very adamant

00:13:37.780 | about like the kind of videos I watch

00:13:39.100 | and I try not to watch videos

00:13:40.100 | that I don't wanna get recommended more

00:13:41.580 | because that's how I think.

00:13:42.900 | But I'm very happy with how it is at the moment.

00:13:45.700 | I think one thing though that I just hate with the passion

00:13:48.580 | is the comment section on YouTube.

00:13:49.740 | It's just so bad.

00:13:51.740 | But I know that's not something

00:13:52.860 | that's gonna 10X the growth of the platform.

00:13:54.860 | But if you think about it, you go to Reddit to read comments

00:13:58.020 | and somehow, like, you know, usually the top 20 posts

00:14:01.900 | on a popular Reddit post are not spam.

00:14:05.180 | You know what I mean?

00:14:06.180 | Have you ever clicked on something

00:14:07.220 | on the front page of Reddit

00:14:08.060 | and then most upvoted reply to it is like,

00:14:10.460 | "Go check out my site right here."

00:14:11.940 | And it's like trying to scam you out of $1,000.

00:14:14.100 | Yeah, I can't even think of one instance

00:14:15.740 | I've ever had that happen.

00:14:16.580 | So like Reddit, it's so nice to click on posts

00:14:19.500 | and just see what people have to say.

00:14:21.340 | And I almost wish like you had that same feeling

00:14:24.100 | when you read the comments on a YouTube video.

00:14:25.780 | Instead, it's like, it's so many people

00:14:27.660 | just copy and pasting, so many bots

00:14:29.540 | that just grab the top comment for your previous video

00:14:31.340 | and paste it over.

00:14:32.180 | So the top comments on every videos are the same.

00:14:33.980 | And the things that break through that

00:14:35.380 | are just scammers trying to get you

00:14:36.660 | to give them $1,000 for a fake ad.

00:14:40.300 | - That comment section is one of the most lively

00:14:42.340 | on the internet.

00:14:43.420 | And so it'd be amazing if YouTube invested

00:14:45.540 | in creating an actual community,

00:14:47.300 | like where people could do high effort comments

00:14:49.100 | and be rewarded for it, like on Reddit.

00:14:50.980 | - Yeah.

00:14:51.820 | - Like actually write out a long thing.

00:14:52.660 | - That would make me so happy.

00:14:53.940 | 'Cause like when I upload a video,

00:14:55.980 | I usually go to Twitter to see feedback.

00:14:58.660 | Like I read my comments and I'll flip through newest,

00:15:01.140 | but it's just, I feel like Reddit and Twitter

00:15:04.740 | just give me so much better filtered feedback.

00:15:07.140 | Especially now that with Twitter Blue,

00:15:08.980 | because people pay $8 a month,

00:15:10.660 | I've noticed like any tweets I get from verified users now,

00:15:15.700 | they're usually not just garbage troll takes.

00:15:18.340 | Like these are people paying $8 a month.

00:15:20.100 | Like they're usually relatively sensible.

00:15:22.820 | And so it's been pretty nice.

00:15:24.380 | Like after I upload a video,

00:15:25.220 | I just go on the verified tab on Twitter

00:15:26.860 | and just see what people have to say.

00:15:28.380 | And anyways, I live for the day that YouTube's like that.

00:15:31.860 | - What do you think about Twitter?

00:15:33.420 | What do you think about all the fun activity

00:15:36.820 | happening recently since Elon bought Twitter?

00:15:40.620 | - I think he should make me CEO, like I tweeted.

00:15:43.500 | (laughing)

00:15:46.860 | - Well, I should say sort of we had,

00:15:49.340 | we just like a couple hours ago

00:15:50.940 | had a conversation with Elon

00:15:52.100 | and you guys said in exchange of some excellent ideas.

00:15:54.940 | So yeah, I legitimately think,

00:15:57.620 | obviously you're exceptionally busy,

00:15:59.020 | but I legitimately think it would be awesome

00:16:01.900 | if you somehow participate in the future of Twitter.

00:16:03.900 | - Yeah, it would be fun.

00:16:05.100 | - 'Cause there's so much possibility of different ideas.

00:16:07.380 | First in the sort of the content,

00:16:10.140 | like dissemination, hosting,

00:16:12.020 | and all the different recommendations,

00:16:13.220 | like the search and discovery,

00:16:14.180 | all the things that YouTube does well.

00:16:16.220 | I think the most exciting thing is

00:16:18.020 | he's willing to move fast.

00:16:20.300 | And so I think there's gonna be a lot of interesting things

00:16:22.800 | that come out of it because he's just moving quick

00:16:25.340 | and a lot of these more mature platforms

00:16:27.260 | just take years to do the simplest stuff

00:16:29.340 | and they're very bureaucratic.

00:16:31.620 | So it's gonna, I mean,

00:16:33.140 | it'll be interesting to see which way it goes

00:16:34.820 | when you just kind of take a move quick, break things,

00:16:37.280 | whatever type approach to social media.

00:16:39.700 | I'm actually pretty curious

00:16:41.580 | to see what features he rolls out.

00:16:42.820 | - So what would be your first act as Twitter CEO?

00:16:47.060 | - I can't spoil it.

00:16:47.980 | - Okay.

00:16:48.820 | - I gotta get hired.

00:16:49.740 | (both laughing)

00:16:51.780 | - What do you think about video on the platform?

00:16:53.740 | - On Twitter?

00:16:54.580 | - Yeah, do you think that's an interesting,

00:16:55.500 | or is it like messing with the medium,

00:16:58.700 | the nature of the platform?

00:16:59.780 | - I think Twitter will always be closer to TikTok

00:17:02.580 | than it is to YouTube, at least in its current form.

00:17:05.340 | I don't see 20 minute, one hour long videos or whatever,

00:17:10.820 | even 15 minute videos being watched over there.

00:17:13.020 | I see it more as like the short and snappy stuff

00:17:14.900 | closer to TikTok.

00:17:16.580 | - But at the same time,

00:17:18.380 | Twitter is a really good comment section for the internet.

00:17:20.900 | - I mean, it's almost weird why,

00:17:22.860 | like why doesn't Twitter allow you to embed YouTube videos?

00:17:25.400 | Like why does, you should just ask Elon that.

00:17:29.060 | Like, I don't know if that's a YouTube thing,

00:17:30.720 | but when a YouTuber posts a video,

00:17:32.540 | why do they have to link to YouTube?

00:17:33.780 | Why can't they just embed it on Twitter

00:17:35.100 | and you just play it there?

00:17:36.340 | I mean, wouldn't that just solve a lot of problems?

00:17:37.860 | - Yeah, but then the two companies

00:17:39.180 | would have to agree to integrate each other's content.

00:17:41.140 | - I don't know, but it seems like a win-win.

00:17:43.340 | I mean, well, it's more of a win for Twitter

00:17:45.340 | 'cause then people don't have to leave the platform.

00:17:47.100 | I mean, that'd be the easiest solution.

00:17:49.300 | - But who gets, like when you watch the ads

00:17:51.300 | on a YouTube video that's embedded in Twitter,

00:17:54.140 | who gets the money?

00:17:54.980 | - It would still be YouTube, but at least then,

00:17:56.660 | right now people just post a link

00:17:58.420 | and it takes you off Twitter

00:17:59.260 | and it just kills your session time on Twitter.

00:18:01.060 | - That's really interesting, but yeah,

00:18:03.100 | 'cause the Twitter, whatever the dynamics of the comments,

00:18:07.060 | especially once the spam bots are taken care of,

00:18:09.740 | Twitter just works.

00:18:10.940 | It's really nice.

00:18:11.780 | So Reddit is a nice comment section for the internet.

00:18:14.020 | It's like slower paced, more deliberate,

00:18:16.180 | like higher effort.

00:18:17.860 | Twitter's like this high paced,

00:18:20.180 | like ephemeral kind of stream,

00:18:22.020 | but there's the upvoting and the downvoting

00:18:23.980 | works much better 'cause you can do retweeting, right?

00:18:27.580 | 'Cause the social network is much stronger

00:18:29.300 | than it is on YouTube.

00:18:30.460 | Like the interconnectivity between--

00:18:31.540 | - Yeah, on Reddit, you're gonna get,

00:18:33.500 | the top replies are gonna be the most refined ones,

00:18:36.020 | whereas Twitter, stuff flows to the top

00:18:37.620 | that's not super refined.

00:18:38.660 | But like you're saying,

00:18:39.500 | it's more off the cuff stream of consciousness,

00:18:41.580 | which a lot of people prefer,

00:18:43.260 | 'cause it's a little more personal.

00:18:45.260 | - How do you think Twitter compares to YouTube

00:18:47.780 | in terms of how you see its future on role in 2023?

00:18:51.340 | - I mean, I think YouTube's gonna be YouTube

00:18:52.860 | and not much is really gonna change,

00:18:54.740 | but it's gonna keep growing just because,

00:18:57.260 | that's just what it does, 'cause it's owned by Google.

00:19:00.480 | But Twitter, I don't know.

00:19:03.140 | I mean, it's one of those things,

00:19:04.500 | like you can't predict if a year from now,

00:19:07.900 | an economy's gonna be in a recession or booming.

00:19:09.980 | And I think Twitter's kind of the same thing.

00:19:11.980 | One thing's for certain,

00:19:12.820 | a lot of things are gonna be rolled out,

00:19:14.060 | but who knows, honestly.

00:19:16.260 | - You responded to Elon saying,

00:19:17.900 | "Twitter's unlikely to be able to pay creators

00:19:19.980 | "more money than YouTube."

00:19:22.000 | Why do you think that is?

00:19:23.180 | - Well, yeah, 'cause I think the tweet I responded to

00:19:25.380 | is one where he was saying that,

00:19:28.440 | users will jump over if Twitter can potentially pay more

00:19:33.500 | than other platforms.

00:19:34.660 | And I was just saying,

00:19:35.500 | obviously 'cause Google has Google AdWords,

00:19:37.020 | and that's Google's whole thing,

00:19:38.460 | it's putting ads on stuff.

00:19:39.580 | They've been doing it better than anyone else in the world

00:19:41.120 | for a very long time.

00:19:42.260 | It's very unlikely in the next few years

00:19:43.980 | that Twitter's gonna just magically, or any platform,

00:19:47.500 | give a creator the ability to make higher CPMs

00:19:50.340 | than on YouTube.

00:19:51.460 | It's kind of crazy.

00:19:53.260 | Some creators in December,

00:19:55.940 | Q4 'cause ad rates are higher

00:19:57.180 | 'cause of Christmas and everything,

00:19:58.140 | some creators literally make like $30, $40 per 1,000 views.

00:20:01.140 | That's after YouTube's cut.

00:20:02.580 | It's almost like hard to think about

00:20:04.620 | how high the RPMs get.

00:20:05.900 | And even then, once you pull out of financing cars,

00:20:08.380 | the high CPM niches,

00:20:09.980 | and you move into just normal stuff,

00:20:11.580 | it's still just crazy.

00:20:13.380 | The sheer volume of creators,

00:20:14.660 | and the fact that all of them get these multi-dollar CPMs

00:20:17.460 | at scale, it's pretty beautiful.

00:20:19.420 | - So you do, I don't know what you would call them,

00:20:22.420 | but like integrated ads in your videos,

00:20:24.780 | and you do it, I would say masterfully.

00:20:26.620 | It's like part of the video.

00:20:27.460 | - Are you talking about brand deals?

00:20:28.380 | - Brand deals, is that what you would call that?

00:20:29.860 | - Yep.

00:20:30.700 | - So brand deal is part of the video.

00:20:32.860 | It's still really exciting to watch,

00:20:34.540 | and yet there's a plug for the brand.

00:20:36.740 | - In general, just brand deals,

00:20:38.220 | since you brought it up, integrating them well.

00:20:40.700 | I think that's something a lot of creators don't do.

00:20:43.620 | Like they'll just do a brand deal out of the blue.

00:20:45.580 | They'll just be filming a video,

00:20:47.100 | and then around the three minute mark,

00:20:48.220 | just start talking about a random company.

00:20:50.060 | And I feel like if you don't want viewers to click away,

00:20:54.100 | and you want people to not get pissed off,

00:20:56.020 | and call you to sell out,

00:20:57.080 | you gotta find a way to integrate into the content.

00:20:59.060 | And ideally, use the money in the video to make it better.

00:21:02.020 | The easiest thing you do when you do a brand deal

00:21:03.460 | is just tell people how you're using money

00:21:05.420 | from the brand deal to make your content better.

00:21:07.140 | And if you do that, no one cares.

00:21:08.780 | Now they're supporting you for it.

00:21:10.060 | And you go from being a sellout to like,

00:21:11.380 | oh, I'm doing this to make better videos for you guys.

00:21:14.580 | - I don't know if you can share,

00:21:15.460 | but with those brands, when you have discussions with them,

00:21:19.700 | are they strict about how long

00:21:21.060 | you need to be talking about it?

00:21:22.700 | Or is it more about they're leaving control to you

00:21:26.100 | about the artistic element of it?

00:21:27.980 | - The problem is the ones who don't give us

00:21:30.260 | the artistic element,

00:21:31.100 | we just don't really work with anymore.

00:21:32.740 | Because it's just, you know,

00:21:34.180 | we get 100 million views a video now,

00:21:35.920 | and I can confidently say I know how to entertain them

00:21:39.200 | and convert them better than these random brands.

00:21:41.620 | So yeah, if they don't give us that freedom,

00:21:44.720 | I just won't work with them.

00:21:45.900 | - So you have that leverage, but for smaller creators--

00:21:48.140 | - It's a lot harder, yeah.

00:21:49.260 | And they're gonna just say,

00:21:50.780 | "45 seconds, here's what you say, take it or leave it."

00:21:53.380 | And it's like pretty brutal.

00:21:55.060 | 'Cause I think just in general,

00:21:57.320 | if brands were more accommodating

00:21:58.820 | to let creators tell their story of the brand

00:22:01.500 | and talk about the brand in a way

00:22:02.860 | that felt a little more natural,

00:22:04.220 | I think A, it'd be less cringe,

00:22:06.580 | people would be less likely to go,

00:22:08.300 | "Tap, tap, tap, skip."

00:22:09.660 | And obviously it would convert better.

00:22:11.660 | But they're just so afraid

00:22:12.700 | and they want this standardized thing.

00:22:13.900 | Say these words in 45 seconds,

00:22:16.660 | right here at this three minute mark.

00:22:18.300 | - Yeah, I often think about how to resist that.

00:22:21.660 | - You just don't do them though, right?

00:22:23.340 | - Not on YouTube, right.

00:22:24.500 | On audio, I do ads in the very beginning,

00:22:26.580 | and I say, "You can skip them if you want."

00:22:28.480 | - Gotcha.

00:22:29.320 | I'm sure the brand loves that.

00:22:30.560 | (laughs)

00:22:31.400 | - I don't, like the point is they...

00:22:33.300 | (laughs)

00:22:34.620 | So the funny thing about podcasts

00:22:35.980 | is different than YouTube videos.

00:22:38.460 | Podcast people actually do listen to ads a lot

00:22:41.560 | because it's slower paced

00:22:43.420 | and they like the creator voice,

00:22:45.640 | like talking about the thing.

00:22:47.080 | But in general, I just don't believe

00:22:50.400 | you should be talking about a thing for a minute exactly,

00:22:53.800 | and that's going to be effective.

00:22:54.800 | I wanna see the data for that.

00:22:56.080 | I think what's much more effective is the way you do ads,

00:22:58.640 | which is like integrating to the content,

00:23:01.200 | like put a lot of effort into making a part of that,

00:23:03.440 | like doing the brand deals.

00:23:04.720 | And I just, it's difficult to have that conversation.

00:23:09.440 | It's like a very strenuous conversation

00:23:12.320 | you have to have with brands.

00:23:13.840 | You have to each one at a time.

00:23:16.320 | And I just wish there was more of a culture to say like,

00:23:18.760 | the quality of the ad read matters a lot more

00:23:21.820 | than the like, the silly parameters,

00:23:25.260 | like the timing of it, like how long it is,

00:23:27.800 | the placement of it, all that kind of stuff.

00:23:29.720 | - What percentage of your viewers do you think

00:23:31.520 | have seen one of my videos before?

00:23:33.220 | - What percentage of the viewers on YouTube, right?

00:23:37.000 | - Yeah, of your viewers.

00:23:38.240 | - Of the viewers on YouTube though?

00:23:39.880 | - Yeah, yeah. - 'Cause most of the people--

00:23:40.720 | - Okay, sure, or all of them.

00:23:42.440 | It's just interesting 'cause you're speaking

00:23:43.880 | very specifically like about my brand deal process.

00:23:46.480 | And so in my head, I'm like, hmm,

00:23:47.560 | I wonder what percentage of these people

00:23:49.000 | even have any idea what he's talking about.

00:23:50.760 | - That's interesting.

00:23:51.600 | I love the thinking about numbers.

00:23:53.080 | - The whole time we were having this conversation,

00:23:54.400 | it's all I could think about, it's like, God damn it.

00:23:57.260 | There's probably like 50% of these people

00:23:58.860 | have no fucking clue what he's saying.

00:24:00.220 | - Probably. - And we're about to torture

00:24:01.260 | him for five minutes.

00:24:02.100 | - Yeah, yeah, probably.

00:24:03.420 | - But that's something I can't turn off in my brain.

00:24:05.460 | - Less than 50%.

00:24:06.620 | Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

00:24:07.860 | Is that exciting to you?

00:24:09.300 | That there's like 50% of people don't,

00:24:12.020 | have not watched a Mr. Beast video.

00:24:13.620 | Isn't that an opportunity to like--

00:24:14.460 | - Yeah, I guess it's an opportunity to grow.

00:24:15.940 | I don't know, honestly, I was just kind of excited

00:24:17.900 | to hang out with you.

00:24:18.740 | - Yeah, me too. - Yeah, me too.

00:24:19.580 | - I mean, today was a lot of fun.

00:24:21.060 | - Who cares if there's mics?

00:24:22.220 | - Yeah, so it was kind of like having a buddy

00:24:23.960 | to go along the journey as I'm just kind of eating shit

00:24:26.080 | and doing my normal grind.

00:24:27.480 | It was like kind of fun.

00:24:28.480 | And also you just say really wise stuff constantly.

00:24:31.600 | So honestly, no, I never even put any thought

00:24:33.240 | into like the demographics or what I could gain.

00:24:35.680 | It's just interesting 'cause like my retention brain,

00:24:38.040 | when you talk about something, I'm instantly like,

00:24:40.320 | hmm, what value are they gonna get?

00:24:42.240 | How many of them are gonna be interested?

00:24:43.720 | What percentage of people do I think will lose?

00:24:45.140 | And I'm like running all those calculations

00:24:46.800 | in the background and that whole conversation,

00:24:48.560 | like the lot, anyway, it's just something

00:24:50.200 | I can't turn off, my bells are like, error, error,

00:24:53.740 | this is bad. (laughs)

00:24:55.060 | - What are the different strategies for high retention

00:24:57.940 | for your videos and in general?

00:24:59.480 | - It's like, how do you cook good food?

00:25:01.020 | You know what I mean?

00:25:01.860 | That's like the same kind of question.

00:25:03.820 | - I see, so there's so many different ways that you,

00:25:05.620 | so it boils down to, I mean, do you think

00:25:09.500 | at the level of a story or do you think

00:25:12.300 | like literally watching five seconds at a time,

00:25:15.580 | am I gonna tune out here, am I gonna tune out here,

00:25:17.580 | am I gonna tune out here?

00:25:18.580 | - It's all of it.

00:25:19.420 | You need the overarching narrative

00:25:20.480 | and then you also need the micro where every second

00:25:24.060 | needs to be entertaining.

00:25:25.000 | And basically, what's interesting is the longer people

00:25:28.320 | watch something, the more likely they are to keep watching.

00:25:31.160 | So you don't have to try as hard

00:25:33.920 | in the hypothetically back half of a video

00:25:36.160 | as you do in the front.

00:25:37.240 | Like even right now, we're so deep into this

00:25:39.460 | where a lot of people listening are probably

00:25:41.360 | just gonna keep listening relatively close to the end

00:25:43.320 | unless we just have a really boring part

00:25:45.080 | of this conversation 'cause they're just in it,

00:25:47.440 | they're immersed.

00:25:48.680 | And so, to really boil it down to a simple level,

00:25:52.640 | you just wanna get people where they're immersed

00:25:54.660 | in the content and then just kinda hold them there.

00:25:57.360 | - We had this discussion offline.

00:25:58.640 | And by the way, I should mention that

00:26:00.320 | this is like late at night.

00:26:02.520 | - It is, what time is it?

00:26:03.760 | It's nine o'clock.

00:26:05.280 | - And I only slept one hour last night

00:26:07.580 | because I'm an idiot and I flew to the wrong location.

00:26:11.000 | - Well, here, we're like, hey,

00:26:12.720 | let's just book you a hotel and a flight.

00:26:14.480 | He's like, no, I got it.

00:26:15.320 | We're like, you sure?

00:26:16.140 | We can just do it, we always do this.

00:26:17.640 | He's like, no, I got it, I got it.

00:26:18.920 | - He's gonna have to rub it in.

00:26:19.920 | - I know, and then today, come to find out,

00:26:21.800 | he flew to the wrong airport,

00:26:23.960 | airport with the, or city with a similar name to ours.

00:26:26.760 | - Same name.

00:26:27.600 | Same name in a different state.

00:26:28.920 | (laughing)

00:26:29.760 | - And I was like, that's why you should have let us book it.

00:26:31.760 | And so, he's on one hour of sleep

00:26:33.560 | and he's literally been dying all day.

00:26:35.160 | Before this podcast, he downed like two things of coffee.

00:26:37.840 | We've been going all day hard.

00:26:39.520 | - Yeah, I've been, I got to interact with you.

00:26:41.560 | I should say that this gave me an opportunity to,

00:26:43.680 | I got a ride from a stranger

00:26:47.000 | and it was an incredible person.

00:26:49.240 | I got to interact with them.

00:26:50.840 | So, it's like there's so many kind people around here.

00:26:53.120 | Just like this kind of Southern energy.

00:26:55.800 | And then I got to go to a diner 'cause I could,

00:26:59.080 | there's only one hour between me arriving

00:27:01.440 | and having to fly out.

00:27:02.560 | So, I went to a diner.

00:27:03.840 | There's a really kind waitress that called me honey.

00:27:06.920 | So, that was a beautiful moment.

00:27:08.720 | - I was so confused.

00:27:09.600 | You tweeted about that and like,

00:27:11.640 | Steel's like, my assistant was like, Lex isn't here yet.

00:27:15.480 | And I saw your tweet and I was like,

00:27:16.920 | he's here.

00:27:17.760 | Steel's like, no, he's still flying.

00:27:19.240 | I was like, an hour ago,

00:27:21.080 | he just tweeted about a nice diner.

00:27:22.880 | - Yeah.

00:27:23.720 | - I didn't realize you flew to the wrong--

00:27:24.560 | - It was a diner in a different state.

00:27:27.240 | - And then you had to fly over here.

00:27:29.080 | And then I called you, you didn't answer.

00:27:30.440 | I was like, hmm.

00:27:31.280 | I was like, something's not adding up.

00:27:34.040 | - Yeah, I feel like such an idiot

00:27:35.320 | 'cause apparently the world has cities like Springfield.

00:27:40.320 | Right?

00:27:41.440 | Like every single state has a Springfield.

00:27:44.000 | - Oh, really?

00:27:45.000 | - I think so.

00:27:45.840 | - Okay, whatever.

00:27:46.880 | - That's like a Simpsons joke, right?

00:27:48.280 | That like, it's the city in the Simpsons is Springfield.

00:27:52.800 | And I think every single state

00:27:54.680 | or most of them have a Springfield.

00:27:56.120 | And the same is true for like Georgetown.

00:27:58.960 | I think the most popular,

00:27:59.800 | I forget what the most popular one was.

00:28:01.600 | But there's like a list of things people get.

00:28:03.720 | When they run out of ideas,

00:28:04.760 | they just keep using the same thing over and over.

00:28:05.600 | - They're your Achilles heel.

00:28:07.120 | (laughs)

00:28:08.160 | - Yeah, I got to meet a bunch of people from your team.

00:28:12.440 | They're just incredible human beings.

00:28:14.120 | So let me just ask on that topic.

00:28:16.320 | How do you hire a great team?

00:28:17.880 | Like what have you learned about hiring for everything?

00:28:21.880 | For the main channel that you do,

00:28:24.480 | for the React, the gaming channel,

00:28:28.000 | to MrBeastBurger, to Feastables, all that?

00:28:32.720 | - The big thing is, especially in this content creation,

00:28:35.400 | 'cause it's not like anything that's done on Netflix

00:28:37.680 | or different content medians.

00:28:40.320 | I really need people who are coachable

00:28:42.320 | and really see the value in what I care about.

00:28:46.040 | Because it's a very specific way of going about things.

00:28:48.320 | And it's a thing, there's no one, like plug and play.

00:28:51.360 | Like if Netflix wanted to hire someone to do a documentary,

00:28:54.600 | there's probably tens of thousands of people you could hire

00:28:57.160 | that have worked on documentaries before.

00:28:58.600 | But if you want to hire someone

00:28:59.560 | to make super viral YouTube videos, like we do,

00:29:03.720 | there's just no one you can really pull from.

00:29:05.600 | Like sometimes I'll hire people from game shows, right?

00:29:09.120 | They have all these preconceived notions about pacing

00:29:11.320 | and how a video should be.

00:29:12.600 | And you have to spend the first year

00:29:14.160 | breaking all these habits,

00:29:15.280 | and they think they're better than you.

00:29:17.360 | Like a lot of people in traditional think they're better,

00:29:19.160 | and they think their way is better than what we do.

00:29:21.120 | And so for me, it's almost easier to hire people

00:29:25.280 | that are just hard workers, that are obsessed,

00:29:28.200 | and really coachable, and just train 'em

00:29:30.280 | how to be good at content creation and production,

00:29:33.200 | than to hire someone from traditional,

00:29:35.440 | which is the only way to really do it,

00:29:36.480 | 'cause there's not that many YouTube channels

00:29:37.800 | that have scaled up.

00:29:38.640 | So it's not like there's a huge talent pool

00:29:40.160 | of people who've worked on YouTube channels.

00:29:42.240 | So it's easier just to train someone

00:29:44.440 | than just pull 'em from traditional,

00:29:46.040 | 'cause traditional people just, I don't know,

00:29:47.840 | they have all these opinions and things,

00:29:49.360 | and they just think our way of going about things is dumb.

00:29:52.680 | - Yeah, so you want people who have the humility

00:29:55.160 | to have a beginner's mind, even if they have experience.

00:29:57.080 | - And see the value.

00:29:57.920 | Like actually, you'll still get it.

00:29:59.960 | It's so crazy.

00:30:00.960 | Especially some of my other friends

00:30:02.400 | that are scaling up their YouTube channels.

00:30:03.760 | There's people that'll come on, and you'll ask them,

00:30:05.400 | like, "What do you wanna be doing in five years?"

00:30:06.640 | And instead of saying,

00:30:07.560 | "Oh, I wanna be working on this channel,"

00:30:08.920 | they'll be like, "Oh, I hope to be working on movies,"

00:30:10.680 | or this or that.

00:30:11.520 | And they see working on a YouTube channel

00:30:13.080 | as a launchpad to go into traditional.

00:30:14.880 | And it's like, no, you just don't get it.

00:30:17.320 | - This is the future.

00:30:18.160 | - This is the end goal.

00:30:19.040 | This is your career.

00:30:20.400 | And so I'm just so tired

00:30:22.760 | of having those kinds of conversations.

00:30:24.480 | I feel like people really should be coming around.

00:30:27.120 | - Are there recurring interview questions that you ask?

00:30:30.920 | Is there ways to get--

00:30:32.520 | - Yeah, but the biggest thing is,

00:30:34.160 | what do you wanna be doing in 10 years?

00:30:35.360 | And if their answer isn't making content on YouTube,

00:30:38.080 | or if their answer is anything like movies

00:30:40.560 | or traditional stuff like that,

00:30:42.040 | it's just a hell no.

00:30:43.600 | It just won't even remotely work.

00:30:44.800 | - Oh, so you really want people

00:30:45.840 | to believe in the vision of YouTube?

00:30:47.360 | - Yeah, I mean, ideally, it's like,

00:30:48.840 | oh, working here, you know what I mean?

00:30:50.960 | - So it's less about the medium

00:30:52.240 | and more about just being on a great team

00:30:53.760 | that's doing epic stuff.

00:30:54.680 | - Yeah, well, and yeah, the media as well.

00:30:56.320 | 'Cause those, it's just, it's hard to put into words,

00:31:00.200 | but it's just two completely different ways

00:31:03.000 | of going about things.

00:31:04.680 | Our videos aren't scripted,

00:31:06.000 | and it's a lot more run and gun.

00:31:08.320 | And if we hypothetically blow up a giant car or whatever,

00:31:13.320 | you only have one take, you know what I mean?

00:31:15.800 | And it's not scripted, and so you have to over-film,

00:31:18.320 | over-shoot things, over-compensate

00:31:20.280 | for the dumb way of going about it.

00:31:21.880 | And a lot of traditional people would be like,

00:31:23.320 | well, just plan what you're gonna say

00:31:24.480 | and just plan the angles.

00:31:25.320 | You can cut the cameras in half,

00:31:26.560 | you can save 50 grand here,

00:31:27.560 | you can save $75,000 in editing, this and that.

00:31:30.560 | And it's like, yeah, but that's not authentic.

00:31:32.880 | That's, you know, blah, blah.

00:31:34.360 | You get it.

00:31:35.280 | It's almost so obvious that it hurts

00:31:37.600 | that I have to constantly have these conversations,

00:31:39.520 | but it's the world we live in.

00:31:41.040 | - But there's also a detail, like there's a taste.

00:31:43.160 | Like I've watched a bunch of videos with you,

00:31:45.280 | and it's clear to you that you've gotten really good,

00:31:48.480 | I don't know what the right word is,

00:31:49.960 | style or taste, to be able to know what's good and not

00:31:52.480 | in terms of retention, in terms of,

00:31:54.360 | just stylistically, visually.

00:31:56.020 | - I don't have to think.

00:31:56.860 | I can just watch a video, and it just screams in my head,

00:32:00.800 | like this is what should change,

00:32:03.160 | based on the million videos I've watched

00:32:05.920 | and all these viral videos I've consumed.

00:32:07.440 | Like this is blah, blah, blah, what's optimal,

00:32:09.360 | and things like that.

00:32:10.320 | It's almost like your brain's like a neural net.

00:32:14.440 | And like if you consume enough viral videos

00:32:16.260 | and enough good content that you just kind of start

00:32:19.560 | to train your brain to see it and see these patterns

00:32:22.360 | that happen in all these viral videos.

00:32:23.720 | And so that, anytime I watch a video,

00:32:25.800 | or a movie or anything,

00:32:26.760 | I just can't stop thinking about what is optimal.

00:32:29.160 | And so it's like, it gives me a headache sometimes

00:32:31.240 | when I watch something too slow

00:32:32.400 | where I don't think it's optimal.

00:32:33.560 | Obviously my taste isn't the end all be all.

00:32:36.560 | But that's something that kind of torments me,

00:32:38.320 | if that makes any sense.

00:32:40.040 | - Oh, you can't enjoy a slow-moving movie.

00:32:41.800 | - No, I can't.

00:32:42.760 | And that's not to say there's--

00:32:44.040 | - Your attention on "The Godfather" is horrible.

00:32:45.960 | - Yeah, no, exactly.

00:32:46.880 | I've tried to watch that movie like three times.

00:32:48.320 | But that's not to say slow movies are bad.

00:32:50.440 | Like there's an audience for it.

00:32:51.640 | It's just obviously not what I've trained my brain to like.

00:32:54.640 | And social media and YouTube right now,

00:32:57.800 | that's just not the meta.

00:32:58.840 | - And in general, like you said, in neural network,

00:33:00.720 | you're training your brain in part on actual data.

00:33:05.480 | Right, so you're actually data-driven.

00:33:07.120 | So you're looking at like,

00:33:08.320 | in terms of thumbnails and titles,

00:33:10.120 | and different aspects of the first five, 10 seconds,

00:33:13.400 | and then throughout the video, the retention, all that.

00:33:15.200 | You're looking at all of that for your own videos

00:33:19.400 | to understand how to do it better.

00:33:20.880 | So that's where the neural network is training.

00:33:22.640 | - Yeah.

00:33:23.480 | Basically, there are ways you can kind of see

00:33:25.880 | like the most viewed videos on YouTube every day

00:33:27.560 | and stuff like that.

00:33:28.400 | And I just kind of consume those every single day.

00:33:30.240 | I've been doing that for way too many years.

00:33:32.520 | And you just start to notice patterns.

00:33:34.120 | Like the thumbnails on the most viewed videos

00:33:36.560 | or videos that go super viral tend to be clear,

00:33:39.200 | tend to not have much clutter, tend to be pretty simple.

00:33:41.480 | Titles tend to be less than 50 characters.

00:33:43.240 | Intros tend to be this.

00:33:44.520 | Stories tend to be this.

00:33:45.720 | And you just kind of like,

00:33:46.760 | after you see those thousands

00:33:48.080 | and then tens of thousands of time,

00:33:49.640 | it just starts to click in your head.

00:33:50.680 | Like this is what it looks like, you know?

00:33:52.960 | - So how are you able to transfer that taste

00:33:56.320 | that you've developed to the team?

00:33:58.160 | So for like, 'cause you said like broad things,

00:34:00.240 | but I'm sure there's a million detailed things.

00:34:02.480 | Like what zoom to use on the face

00:34:04.120 | to use in the thumbnail, right?

00:34:05.560 | - The answer is whatever makes the best video.

00:34:08.600 | 'Cause the problem is the more,

00:34:10.800 | I have so many friends who are like this.

00:34:12.200 | They'll make like checklists for their editors.

00:34:13.800 | They'll be like, you know, this beat and this beat.

00:34:16.080 | And you need to have like a three part arc and then this.

00:34:18.400 | But the problem is that's how you,

00:34:20.560 | the more constraints you put on the team,

00:34:23.360 | the more repetitive and less innovation you get.

00:34:26.600 | And the more like, you know, after 10 videos,

00:34:29.000 | people are gonna be like, all right, I've already seen this.

00:34:30.360 | So to me, and I'm 24 and you know,

00:34:33.200 | I'm probably my mindset will change over the next 10 years.

00:34:35.600 | I just haven't been in this industry too long.

00:34:37.400 | But the only way to like really make innovative content

00:34:40.440 | and keep things fresh is to not put constraints on

00:34:42.840 | or put as little as possible.

00:34:44.560 | And so that's why I'm very hesitant on all that stuff

00:34:47.200 | because the more I say, the more they're gonna be like,

00:34:49.640 | oh, then that's what we do.

00:34:50.600 | And then, you know, I'll say one time like,

00:34:53.360 | oh, you know, ideally there's a cut every three seconds.

00:34:55.280 | And the next thing you know, every video,

00:34:57.120 | there's a cut every three seconds or whatever.

00:34:58.840 | So it's hard because I try to give as little,

00:35:03.840 | not training, but as little facts as possible

00:35:09.360 | and more just make suggestions, if that makes any sense.

00:35:11.600 | - You mean publicly or to your team?

00:35:12.840 | - To my team, yeah.

00:35:13.800 | - So you talked about sort of teaching your voice

00:35:17.760 | or your style, whatever we wanna call it,

00:35:20.800 | to other people on the team so they can be

00:35:22.400 | kind of a Mr. Beast replacement.

00:35:24.840 | So what's the process of teaching this?

00:35:27.920 | So you don't wanna--

00:35:28.760 | - No, I got you.

00:35:29.600 | So you're more talking about like what I would call

00:35:32.040 | almost like cloning, right?

00:35:33.320 | Like Tyler and other people like that.

00:35:34.840 | Yeah, so when we were hanging out today,

00:35:37.160 | I was showing him how we have multiple people in the company.

00:35:39.880 | It's almost like talking to the camera.

00:35:41.880 | - Yeah, you turn slowly to the camera.

00:35:44.400 | - I was like, anyways, have it.

00:35:46.320 | - Is it weird to you to not be looking at the camera?

00:35:48.320 | - This whole interview, I constantly have been turning

00:35:50.920 | towards the camera when I'm talking to him.

00:35:52.680 | It's a habit.

00:35:54.120 | 'Cause my whole life, I've just been talking to a camera.

00:35:56.440 | - Who are you thinking about

00:35:57.360 | when you're looking at the camera?

00:35:58.520 | Do you like imagine somebody?

00:36:00.000 | - I'm fully thinking about the person

00:36:02.200 | just sitting watching it.

00:36:03.520 | And I almost, it's weird, when I'm looking at the camera,

00:36:06.200 | I don't see a camera.

00:36:07.320 | I'm like in a haze picturing what the viewer is seeing

00:36:10.600 | when they watch it, if that makes sense.

00:36:12.320 | And that's where I'll be saying things or doing something.

00:36:15.800 | And then like when I'm watching,

00:36:17.160 | I'm like, that's not what I want.

00:36:18.600 | And then I'll freeze up.

00:36:19.920 | It's very weird when I'm filming.

00:36:21.040 | And for people who haven't worked with me too much,

00:36:23.680 | they'll think like, I don't know, it's very weird.

00:36:26.120 | Like how I go about it.

00:36:27.440 | 'Cause I'll just be doing whatever,

00:36:28.600 | like lighting a firework.

00:36:30.000 | This is a thousand dollar firework.

00:36:31.520 | And I'll go to light it and I'll like freeze.

00:36:33.560 | 'Cause in my head I'm like, this, I don't know.

00:36:35.080 | I don't like how that flowed or how that shot looked.

00:36:36.720 | 'Cause it's weird.

00:36:37.960 | I can perfectly picture what I'm filming

00:36:40.480 | by just looking at the camera

00:36:41.520 | and then putting myself through the lens of the camera

00:36:43.680 | while making content.

00:36:45.840 | I can do it at the same time.

00:36:47.360 | - So you're like real time editing.

00:36:49.440 | - Yeah, yeah.

00:36:50.280 | That's something that didn't at the start come natural to me,

00:36:53.280 | but in the last probably like five years it's happened.

00:36:56.440 | And so I would say it's one of my greatest strengths,

00:36:58.280 | but I don't know how I developed it.

00:36:59.800 | But anytime I'm filming anything,

00:37:01.200 | like it's almost like the right side of my brain.

00:37:04.000 | I can just look at it and I see exactly what I'm filming

00:37:06.440 | and I can just picture it.

00:37:07.440 | - Well, that's probably recording the video,

00:37:10.320 | being the talent for the video,

00:37:11.280 | and then watching the editing

00:37:12.880 | and like analyzing it carefully

00:37:14.080 | and do that over and over and over and over.

00:37:14.920 | - Yeah, you do that 10,000 times.

00:37:17.120 | - You do the editing more

00:37:18.240 | than being in front of the camera.

00:37:20.440 | So like you start to see yourself

00:37:23.760 | from that third person perspective.

00:37:25.320 | - Exactly.

00:37:26.160 | - And then maybe that actually helps

00:37:27.000 | with the nerves of it too.

00:37:28.240 | Like you see it as creating a video versus performing.

00:37:31.760 | - Yeah, yeah, I think so.

00:37:35.120 | It's weird, I've never been nervous talking to a camera.

00:37:38.560 | It's harder for me to talk to a person

00:37:40.480 | than it is to talk to a camera,

00:37:41.880 | which I feel like a lot of people say that though,

00:37:43.840 | that are whatever, make content, right?

00:37:46.080 | - Interesting.

00:37:46.920 | - I've heard that so many times.

00:37:48.800 | Or maybe not, maybe I'm just awkward and dumb.

00:37:50.360 | - Maybe they're practiced.

00:37:51.520 | To me, both are terrifying,

00:37:53.680 | but being in front of the camera by yourself is most--

00:37:56.360 | - So much easier.

00:37:57.320 | - Really?

00:37:58.160 | - Yeah, so much easier.

00:37:58.980 | I've referred a million times over.

00:38:00.200 | (exhaling)

00:38:01.400 | But that's my whole life, you know?

00:38:03.240 | So it's just, that's why it's interesting.

00:38:05.040 | Like you've spent more of your time talking to people.

00:38:07.000 | It comes natural and I talk to a piece of plastic.

00:38:10.680 | - Oh yeah, I guess you're talking to a person too.

00:38:12.160 | There's just on the other side of the camera.

00:38:14.000 | - Yeah, there's just a pixel on a screen.

00:38:16.240 | - So cloning, how do you achieve the--

00:38:18.400 | - Oh yeah, that's right.

00:38:19.240 | This whole rabbit trail.

00:38:20.060 | So I was showing him that I have a lot of people

00:38:22.360 | in the company who are able to think like me

00:38:24.200 | and basically make decisions like I would make if I was,

00:38:29.200 | if you were asked, "Hey, in this video,

00:38:31.520 | "should we climb a mountain or should we dig a hole?"

00:38:34.080 | Right, and they would pick the same answer

00:38:36.520 | I'd pick 90 plus percent of the times.

00:38:38.140 | And so one example is Tyler, who I was showing you,

00:38:41.000 | and he was pitching some content.

00:38:42.800 | And you could see, he was on point.

00:38:45.540 | And basically for just four or five years,

00:38:48.760 | we just spent an absurd amount of time together

00:38:51.120 | and worked on every single video together

00:38:52.600 | and we worked side by side.

00:38:54.520 | And same thing with my CEO, James.

00:38:57.120 | He literally lived with me for a couple of years.

00:38:59.140 | I'm a big fan of just like finding people

00:39:01.480 | who are super obsessed and all in and A players

00:39:04.640 | that they really just wanna be great.

00:39:07.760 | And then just dumping everything I have in them.

00:39:09.800 | - And then you were saying,

00:39:10.960 | 'cause I'd love to find that and develop that,

00:39:14.040 | you're saying you're basically for a long time

00:39:16.780 | just said everything you were thinking to them.

00:39:18.500 | - Exactly.

00:39:19.340 | Like James, the guy who's basically my right hand man

00:39:21.940 | right now, for two years, he lived with me.

00:39:25.220 | And we probably talked on average

00:39:26.740 | over those two years, seven hours a day.

00:39:28.340 | I mean, anytime I had a phone call, I'd throw it on speaker

00:39:30.540 | and I'd let him listen.

00:39:31.840 | Anything I was reading, any content I was consuming,

00:39:33.940 | like really just training his brain to think like me.

00:39:36.780 | So that way he could just do things without my input,

00:39:40.300 | without me having to constantly watch over him

00:39:42.020 | or give him advice.

00:39:43.360 | And that's where we've gotten.

00:39:44.720 | So for the first six months, he didn't do anything.

00:39:46.080 | He just studied me and studied everything I cared about

00:39:48.560 | and how I spoke and blah, blah.

00:39:50.200 | And then the next six months,

00:39:51.360 | he started taking on some responsibilities

00:39:53.120 | and now he can just run the company

00:39:55.160 | and I don't ever really have to check in on him.

00:39:58.360 | Most of the decisions he makes are exactly what I would do.

00:40:01.120 | And so I call that cloning.

00:40:03.940 | I don't know what other people would,

00:40:04.960 | but it's just like finding people that are really obsessed

00:40:07.380 | and they just kind of really want it

00:40:09.560 | and just being like giving them an avenue to get it,

00:40:12.560 | if that makes any sense.

00:40:13.880 | - Another way to see it is you're converging

00:40:15.740 | towards a common vision

00:40:17.060 | and that makes like brainstorming much more productive.

00:40:20.800 | - Yeah, it just makes it where I don't have to be

00:40:22.840 | so involved in everything

00:40:24.240 | because I just have these people I know

00:40:25.800 | will think like I will, at least relatively close to it.

00:40:29.560 | So I can kind of almost be in multiple places at once per se.

00:40:33.040 | And so these things that, you know,

00:40:35.180 | I still approve every idea we film

00:40:37.000 | and everything before we film it, all the creative,

00:40:39.680 | I approve it,

00:40:40.520 | but I don't have to like be in the weeds and nuances

00:40:43.520 | and do all this minor stuff.

00:40:45.020 | I can just let them handle it.

00:40:45.920 | I can just do the more macro things.

00:40:47.520 | - I got a chance to sit in

00:40:49.440 | to a lengthy brainstorming session with Tyler and others.

00:40:53.280 | That was really cool.

00:40:55.040 | Can you talk about the process of that,

00:40:57.440 | of people pitching ideas

00:41:01.920 | and you pitching alternatives or shutting down ideas

00:41:05.160 | and just going, like plowing through ideas very quickly?

00:41:07.440 | - I mean, you kind of just described exactly what we did.

00:41:10.920 | Yeah.

00:41:11.760 | - Yeah, I mean, but the ideas are really, really good.

00:41:13.720 | It's just tossing out like different categories of ideas

00:41:18.600 | and then also fine tuning them to see like,

00:41:21.160 | how do I change, like thinking about the titles

00:41:22.920 | and the thumbnails.

00:41:23.740 | - I work so well off of inspiration.

00:41:25.360 | It's like, it's something,

00:41:27.580 | like give me any word, I don't know.

00:41:31.000 | Make it relative. - Space.

00:41:31.840 | - Space, yeah, like I went to space, you know.

00:41:34.000 | What happens if you blow up a nuke in space

00:41:35.640 | or I went to the moon, I went to Mars.

00:41:37.420 | Right, because you said that one word,

00:41:39.600 | it was able to inspire me to come up with four ideas.

00:41:42.160 | And so that's just, it's for me,

00:41:44.800 | the way to get a hundred million views on videos,

00:41:48.120 | you need something original, creative,

00:41:49.680 | something people really need to see,

00:41:51.360 | ideally never been done before, all these like things.

00:41:53.920 | And so you need like,

00:41:55.200 | if you want to consistently go super well,

00:41:56.560 | you need just a constant stream of ideas.

00:41:58.480 | And the only way I've really found

00:42:00.440 | that I can consistently come up with a hundred million

00:42:02.520 | view videos is to intake inspiration

00:42:04.900 | and then see what my brain outputs.

00:42:06.600 | And so that's kind of at its core foundation,

00:42:09.680 | what I'm doing there.

00:42:10.520 | It's just like intaking a lot of random inspiration

00:42:12.980 | to see what spawns in my mind so I can output it.

00:42:16.040 | - But the neural network of your brain is generating

00:42:18.540 | the video, the title, the thumbnail, all like jointly.

00:42:23.160 | - Exactly, and that only comes because

00:42:25.040 | I spent 10 years of my life just obsessively

00:42:27.360 | studying all that stuff.

00:42:28.280 | - 'Cause you, I mean, it seems like you would literally

00:42:31.900 | potentially shut down a video

00:42:33.160 | just 'cause you can't come up with a good title.

00:42:35.000 | - Yeah, 100%, or a thumbnail.

00:42:36.360 | Yeah, I mean, that's what happened to 70% of those

00:42:38.520 | in that pitch session.

00:42:39.360 | I was just like, oh, what was one of them?

00:42:40.960 | Genius versus 100 people, or?

00:42:42.880 | - Yeah, like maybe Average Intelligence versus Genius,

00:42:45.200 | something like that.

00:42:46.040 | - Yeah, I was like, what the heck is the thumbnail?

00:42:47.880 | Even if the title is good.

00:42:48.920 | - Yeah. - Yeah.

00:42:49.760 | I mean, there's so many, but yeah,

00:42:51.360 | people don't click, they don't watch.

00:42:53.680 | - That's so interesting, but you developed over time

00:42:55.640 | the ability to kind of give it, what?

00:42:58.040 | What makes for a good title, short?

00:43:00.200 | - Not just short, it's also, I mean,

00:43:04.480 | if someone reads it, are they, like,

00:43:06.480 | do they have to watch it?

00:43:07.960 | Is it just so intrinsically interesting

00:43:09.960 | that it's just gonna fuck with them

00:43:11.760 | if they don't click on it, you know what I mean?

00:43:13.520 | - So it doesn't have to be short, but it has to be,

00:43:16.880 | like, you almost want to have a retention

00:43:20.000 | to word-by-word reading.

00:43:21.520 | - Ideally, it's a title also that,

00:43:23.900 | 'cause the titles don't live in a vacuum, right?

00:43:26.860 | So it has to lead into the content.

00:43:28.600 | So ideally, the title represents content

00:43:31.220 | that you would wanna watch for 20 minutes.

00:43:32.800 | So if it's a 20-minute video

00:43:34.200 | and the title is "I Stepped on a Bug,"

00:43:36.320 | it's not gonna, 'cause it's all of it combined,

00:43:38.880 | the click-through rate's gonna be much lower

00:43:40.560 | than if it was, like, a five-second video.

00:43:42.080 | People might click it.

00:43:43.040 | So you gotta, like, even nuances

00:43:44.800 | of the length of the video based against the title

00:43:47.040 | will affect whether people wanna click it,

00:43:48.400 | 'cause sometimes they just all add up.

00:43:50.080 | I mean, it's that, yes,

00:43:51.360 | ideally you want it below 50 characters,

00:43:53.040 | because above 50 characters on certain devices,

00:43:55.040 | you run the chance of it going dot, dot, dot.

00:43:57.080 | So, like, I took a light pole

00:43:59.280 | and I saw how many dollar bills I could stack on top,

00:44:02.560 | and they would just go dot, dot, dot,

00:44:03.720 | 'cause it's too long and they can't finish it.

00:44:05.400 | And that's the worst thing,

00:44:06.400 | because then people don't even know

00:44:07.240 | what they're clicking on,

00:44:08.060 | and so it's gonna do even worse.

00:44:10.280 | Short, simple, ideally,

00:44:12.180 | and just so freaking interesting they have to click,

00:44:14.400 | and it is a good segue into the content,

00:44:16.560 | and it represents the length of the content.

00:44:18.240 | - And there's probably stuff

00:44:19.160 | it's hard to convert into words for you,

00:44:21.560 | like "I Stepped on a Bug" versus "Stepping on a Bug"

00:44:25.120 | versus "Mr. B Stepped on a Bug" versus "Bug Stepping Video."

00:44:29.840 | - So it's like, yes, the more extreme the opinion,

00:44:32.640 | typically the higher the click-through rate.

00:44:33.880 | If you can pay it off in the content,

00:44:37.800 | then it just supercharges it.

00:44:39.320 | - Oh, so you have a kind of estimate

00:44:41.160 | of the extremeness of the content.

00:44:42.000 | - Yeah, like this water, right?

00:44:43.480 | If you're like, Fiji water sucks, that'd do fine.

00:44:47.840 | But if you said Fiji water is the worst water bottle,

00:44:51.000 | or the worst water I've ever drank in my life,

00:44:53.440 | way more extreme opinion would do way better.

00:44:55.160 | - But you have to deliver.

00:44:56.300 | - Yeah, but then you have to deliver,

00:44:57.600 | 'cause the more extreme you are,

00:44:58.640 | the more extreme you have to be in the video.

00:45:00.760 | - That's almost inspiration for you to step up.

00:45:03.520 | - Yeah, but you can be more extreme in a positive way.

00:45:06.480 | A lot of people, it's easier though.

00:45:08.320 | Negative click-bait's much easier than positive click-bait.

00:45:13.500 | It just is, it's so much easier to get negative clicks.

00:45:16.520 | And so a lot of people are just, in my opinion,

00:45:19.200 | you know, a little bit lazier,

00:45:20.360 | and they just take the route like,

00:45:21.880 | oh, well, this one gets the same amount of clicks,

00:45:23.880 | and it's easier, less effort.

00:45:25.480 | - The positive one is doing a large number

00:45:28.320 | of numbers of something.

00:45:29.880 | Like I spent this number of hours doing this.

00:45:32.120 | - Or whatever, if you just wanted to help people.

00:45:34.280 | It's just harder to get 10 million views

00:45:36.880 | on a video helping people than it is

00:45:38.240 | to get 10 million views on a video

00:45:39.400 | tearing down a celebrity, you know what I mean?

00:45:40.840 | Or whatever negative video you wanna insert there.

00:45:43.520 | - Well, that said, most of your videos are pretty positive.

00:45:46.240 | - Yes, but not a lot of people do those kinds of videos,

00:45:48.840 | 'cause they're hard.

00:45:49.680 | - Yeah, they're hard.

00:45:51.000 | Some of that is giving away money, right?

00:45:53.200 | What's the secret to that?

00:45:56.240 | How do you do that right?

00:45:58.120 | - Yeah, give away money?

00:46:00.240 | - In a video to make it compelling.

00:46:02.480 | So there's a number that is better

00:46:06.200 | than another number, right?

00:46:07.360 | - The higher number is always better than the lower number.

00:46:09.520 | Yeah, for the most part.

00:46:10.640 | And you know, it's interesting,

00:46:11.840 | like some videos will give away a million dollars,

00:46:14.200 | some videos will give away half a million.

00:46:15.600 | There's not really, I guess,

00:46:17.200 | so I'm retracting what I just said.

00:46:18.440 | I was more joking with that,

00:46:19.560 | but there's no difference whether I put 500K or a million.

00:46:22.480 | There's probably not even really a difference

00:46:23.640 | between 100K or a million.

00:46:24.520 | I haven't really looked into it.

00:46:25.760 | Like some of our, most of our videos

00:46:27.480 | are not us giving away a million dollars,

00:46:29.080 | and sometimes the million dollar videos

00:46:30.360 | just don't do as well as the other ones.

00:46:31.520 | So there is a certain point where a dollar amount

00:46:34.760 | is just a large dollar amount to an average human.

00:46:37.280 | And so I think that point is 100K.

00:46:39.800 | Like anything above 100K,

00:46:41.360 | the average human is just like, that's a lot of money.

00:46:44.280 | It doesn't, 100K and a million,

00:46:45.520 | like it doesn't really move the needle,

00:46:47.520 | if that makes sense.

00:46:48.920 | Which that's a very nuanced piece of information

00:46:51.400 | that applies to very few people, but yeah.

00:46:53.760 | - Well, no, I think it applies, it's fascinating.

00:46:55.720 | It's fascinating, human,

00:46:57.680 | our relationship with money is fascinating.

00:46:59.760 | Like why is it so exciting to get,

00:47:02.400 | I mean, I, you know, the times I've found

00:47:05.080 | like 20 bucks in the ground are like incredible.

00:47:08.760 | - Really? - I don't know why, right?

00:47:10.080 | Why, why are you so happy?

00:47:12.280 | Like what exactly is so joyful about that?

00:47:14.520 | I mean, it depends where you are in life,

00:47:16.240 | what the situation is.

00:47:17.760 | Yeah, I don't know.

00:47:18.760 | There's also a gamified aspect to it.

00:47:20.600 | It's exciting.

00:47:21.600 | - Yeah, no, I get it.

00:47:22.760 | Like why people want to see people win money.

00:47:24.720 | It's just interesting that past 100 grand,

00:47:26.960 | it doesn't really seem to make a difference.

00:47:28.520 | Like it's the same basically.

00:47:30.840 | - So you found that to be true

00:47:31.800 | with all the money you've given away?

00:47:33.120 | - I just think click-through rate.

00:47:34.320 | Like obviously in terms of someone receiving it,

00:47:36.600 | yeah, a million dollars changes their life drastically more.

00:47:39.720 | Like that's the difference.

00:47:40.560 | Like, oh, if you wanted to, you could really quit your job.

00:47:42.920 | As opposed to 100K is like, not really.

00:47:45.360 | - You probably do like a scientific study,

00:47:47.760 | like a formula, giving away money to click-through rate.

00:47:51.580 | - Yeah.

00:47:52.420 | - There could be some kind of

00:47:53.240 | diminishing return. - I got it.

00:47:54.080 | - So the returns level off dramatically after 100K.

00:47:57.200 | That's basically the premise.

00:47:58.040 | - What about 10,000?

00:47:59.200 | - No, there's 10, 100,000.

00:48:02.320 | - Is that the big one?

00:48:03.160 | - It's funny 'cause this is such a small niche thing.

00:48:05.880 | But yeah, 100,000 does,

00:48:08.080 | from what I see in our videos,

00:48:09.160 | get more clicks than 10,000.

00:48:11.120 | But the difference between 100,000 and a million

00:48:12.520 | is just so little.

00:48:13.560 | I just, I think big number, big number to a lot of people

00:48:16.480 | past that point.

00:48:17.760 | - Yeah, so for 100,000, you can,

00:48:19.800 | like given average salary,

00:48:21.040 | you can probably live for a year,

00:48:22.680 | given what the average salary is in America.

00:48:24.880 | So that's like a big, that feels something.

00:48:26.640 | - Yeah, I think it's also just more

00:48:27.640 | when they read the title.

00:48:28.600 | It's just like, it's a lot of zeros.

00:48:29.880 | It's a lot of, fuck loads of zeros.

00:48:31.600 | Okay, click.

00:48:32.440 | - Yeah.

00:48:33.280 | (laughing)

00:48:34.800 | Oh man, that's fascinating.

00:48:35.700 | So on the thumbnail side, again,

00:48:37.320 | that's gonna be much harder to say probably.

00:48:40.020 | But offline, I got a chance to look at a bunch of thumbnails

00:48:45.360 | and it's fascinating which ones do well

00:48:46.760 | and which ones don't.

00:48:48.160 | Is there something you could say about

00:48:49.880 | what are the elements of a thumbnail that work well?

00:48:52.160 | Or is this also deeply instinctual?

00:48:53.640 | - Well, that's where, yeah, it's the same thing.

00:48:55.400 | Like how do you cook good food?

00:48:56.600 | But it's easier if you pull up a thumbnail

00:48:59.400 | and I can be like, that's why that's good.

00:49:00.680 | That's why that's bad.

00:49:01.560 | That's a, like an example would be like one of my friends,

00:49:04.720 | he just uploaded a video recently and I called him.

00:49:07.120 | I was like, what is this?

00:49:08.200 | Because he's a very, very smart guy.

00:49:09.920 | And in the thumbnail, he's getting chased by cops,

00:49:12.880 | but the cops were wearing yellow vests.

00:49:15.280 | So they didn't look at cops.

00:49:16.200 | So I was like, well, why are the cops in your thumbnail

00:49:19.000 | wearing yellow vests?

00:49:20.440 | That makes it so much more boring.

00:49:22.320 | And he was like carrying a flag,

00:49:24.480 | but the pole and the color of the flag were the same color.

00:49:26.600 | So I was like, it's a lot harder to see the flag.

00:49:28.760 | I was like, also you're wearing like a shirt

00:49:30.200 | with like five different colors.

00:49:31.600 | So it's like, it's hard to tell what even

00:49:34.960 | what your outline is.

00:49:36.240 | And then in the background, there were cars.

00:49:37.800 | And I was like, well, if you have cops chasing you,

00:49:39.280 | why not make the cars cop cars?

00:49:41.560 | And it's like, 'cause in my head, I'm like, dang,

00:49:44.280 | if he just did those like four or five things,

00:49:46.200 | the video probably would have got like seven X the views.

00:49:49.280 | - How much iteration, 'cause I also got a chance

00:49:51.760 | to see the number of iterations you do on a,

00:49:54.200 | I don't know, just a brand of thumbnails.

00:49:55.560 | - It's a problem now.

00:49:57.200 | It's an addiction.

00:49:58.720 | - Is it?

00:49:59.560 | So you kind of, 'cause a lot of the versions

00:50:02.040 | are really good.

00:50:03.080 | - Yeah.

00:50:03.920 | - How do you know what to like stop?

00:50:04.760 | - I love how you, when we pulled up that,

00:50:06.240 | the burger one and we were flipping through them,

00:50:07.400 | you're like, that's really good.

00:50:08.240 | I was like, oh, that's version like one of like a thousand.

00:50:11.920 | - But even the sketch, the idea was good.

00:50:13.680 | Like already even the original idea is strong.

00:50:16.680 | - Yeah, so one of our coming up videos,

00:50:18.240 | we made the world's largest plant-based burger

00:50:19.960 | and the thumbnail we were thinking is like me

00:50:21.560 | standing beside the burger 'cause it's six feet tall.

00:50:23.560 | That's what he's talking about.

00:50:24.960 | So like just picture a giant six foot tall burger,

00:50:27.120 | super wide, thousands of pounds, and then I'm beside it.

00:50:29.980 | And then it's like eating the world's largest burger.

00:50:32.720 | That's just something you have to click.

00:50:34.680 | So you were saying like, how would you describe

00:50:36.240 | a good thumbnail?

00:50:37.080 | Like that, you know what I mean?

00:50:38.680 | - But I think you said the one I noticed first

00:50:42.000 | that was good where you were very small in it

00:50:44.760 | relative to the, and you didn't like that one, I think.

00:50:46.640 | - I needed to come forward a little bit

00:50:48.000 | and also the photo we took was just my upper body.

00:50:52.000 | So they photo manipulated and created my legs in Photoshop.

00:50:55.000 | And that's why I said I didn't like it

00:50:56.400 | 'cause my right leg was a little like off.

00:50:58.400 | It was like bent the wrong way

00:50:59.960 | 'cause they had to build those legs in Photoshop.

00:51:02.400 | - Well, I mean, does the physics in the thumbnail

00:51:04.240 | have to even make sense?

00:51:05.360 | I mean, you can just like exaggerate the head size

00:51:07.560 | and all that kind of stuff, right?

00:51:08.400 | - Yeah, 100%.

00:51:09.240 | Yeah, things don't have to be relative.

00:51:10.760 | You can have a car in the background

00:51:12.360 | and be three times the size.

00:51:13.920 | 'Cause yeah, every one of my thumbnails,

00:51:15.460 | my face is in the left side, very big.

00:51:18.960 | So brand recognition, so just people know.

00:51:21.400 | Oh, especially 'cause now that a lot of people

00:51:23.040 | copy our videos, it's just nice to like,

00:51:25.360 | you know, everyone else might make thumbnails like this,

00:51:27.600 | but this is mine.

00:51:28.760 | And obviously we usually over deliver and do bigger stuff.

00:51:32.000 | - Would you recommend to other creators

00:51:33.360 | that wanna make it big and they see Mr. Beast

00:51:36.840 | and they look up to you to copy some elements of you

00:51:39.720 | or to really try to be unique?

00:51:41.640 | - Unique, 100% unique.

00:51:43.780 | The next Mr. Beast, quote unquote,

00:51:45.820 | it feels weird saying that in third person, but whatever,

00:51:47.860 | is not gonna do what I'm doing better.

00:51:50.380 | They're gonna just invent their own lane.

00:51:51.900 | Like you're just not gonna do what I do better than me.

00:51:54.660 | You know, I have so many,

00:51:56.100 | I literally have the best people in the world working here

00:51:57.940 | and I reinvest everything I make even to this day.

00:52:00.260 | You know what I mean?

00:52:01.100 | Like it's absurd the amount of money I spend on content.

00:52:03.300 | And I don't care, I'll just stop sleeping

00:52:04.940 | and I'll just film every other day.

00:52:06.380 | Like you're just not gonna beat me at my own game

00:52:08.980 | and that's fine, you shouldn't.

00:52:10.180 | Like I didn't get where I am

00:52:12.020 | by just beating someone else at their own game.

00:52:13.360 | I just found my own lane and innovated and adapted.

00:52:15.800 | And so, yeah, there's a lot of people that do copy me

00:52:18.520 | and it's fine, whatever, do it,

00:52:20.420 | but just know you're not gonna get to where I am doing that.

00:52:23.700 | And so I'd advise you don't.

00:52:25.840 | - You give away a lot of the secrets,

00:52:28.560 | basically everything about how you operate.

00:52:30.680 | Is there a--

00:52:31.520 | - I don't hold anything back, go for it.

00:52:33.600 | - How do you think about that?

00:52:34.440 | 'Cause that's pretty rare.

00:52:35.800 | - I think, and this is definitely not,

00:52:39.000 | most people in my stance,

00:52:40.640 | I don't think would take this,

00:52:42.160 | or my position would take this stance,

00:52:43.740 | but I see every other YouTuber or person on social media,

00:52:47.560 | even, 'cause we're also focused super heavily on YouTube,

00:52:49.800 | but last year we were also the most followed

00:52:51.240 | TikTok creator in the world as well.

00:52:52.640 | Actually, we were most subscribed

00:52:53.640 | to YouTube channel in the world

00:52:54.480 | and the most followed TikTok account in the world.

00:52:56.680 | But in general, I just see everyone else

00:52:59.080 | as collaborators, not competitors.

00:53:01.200 | I don't think giving advice

00:53:03.960 | and helping other creators do well in any way harms me

00:53:06.440 | and I think it only brings more value to my life.

00:53:08.640 | - How was it jumping on TikTok

00:53:11.120 | and trying to understand that platform from scratch?

00:53:13.880 | So from being a successful YouTuber

00:53:15.560 | to understand a totally different algorithm,

00:53:17.280 | fundamentally different algorithm, what was that like?

00:53:19.040 | - It's interesting.

00:53:19.880 | Well, not even just the algorithm, just the content.

00:53:21.720 | I'm going from basically 15 minute short films

00:53:24.800 | to sub one minute vertical content.

00:53:27.840 | It's a whole different just ballpark.

00:53:31.240 | And so the first little while I was doing TikTok

00:53:34.040 | is just kind of figuring out

00:53:36.480 | what does MrBeast look like in this short form content?

00:53:39.040 | But recently we've really started to catch our stride

00:53:41.480 | and come up with some original concepts

00:53:43.200 | and figure out how to innovate over there

00:53:45.000 | just like we did on YouTube

00:53:45.840 | because I didn't want it to just be shitty YouTube videos.

00:53:50.760 | And so like an example is we played the rock for 100K

00:53:54.920 | and rock, paper, scissors

00:53:56.080 | and the loser had to donate 100K to charity.

00:53:58.400 | We went to random people on a campus and we offered them.

00:54:02.800 | So I said, I'll give you $100

00:54:04.600 | if you fly to Paris and give me a baguette.

00:54:06.320 | And then they said, no, and I was like,

00:54:07.680 | I will give you $300

00:54:09.080 | if you fly to Paris and give me a baguette.

00:54:09.920 | And I was expecting this person to say no

00:54:11.920 | and it'd go up to like 10 grand.

00:54:13.080 | And he's like, yes.

00:54:14.200 | And so he flew to Paris, got a baguette

00:54:16.200 | and brought it back and gave it to me.

00:54:17.520 | And that across everything got like 450 million views.

00:54:20.800 | 'Cause it's just really cool just to see this random guy

00:54:23.520 | get on a plane, spend a day in Paris

00:54:25.360 | and we cut it up real nicely and bring it back.

00:54:27.600 | And so we're starting to find just tons

00:54:29.400 | of original content over there.

00:54:31.200 | - But it seems like an epic video to make for one minute.

00:54:33.600 | - Exactly, no one on short form is doing it.

00:54:35.400 | That's the thing.

00:54:36.240 | It's like, it's just so funny.

00:54:38.080 | 'Cause like TikTok's been big for a while now, years.

00:54:41.360 | And then, you know, as we started to really figure

00:54:44.920 | out things on the YouTube channel and get it cranking

00:54:46.960 | where I have some free time, we set our sights on TikTok

00:54:50.040 | and like, okay, what are people not doing?

00:54:52.920 | How do we make it better?

00:54:54.160 | Put in more effort, make it good.

00:54:55.880 | And we did the same thing we did at YouTube,

00:54:57.600 | just different over on TikTok and it worked.

00:54:59.560 | And now we're the fastest growing

00:55:01.280 | or most followed TikTok account in 2022.

00:55:04.040 | And it's just funny that no one else did that.

00:55:06.480 | - And you're not afraid to do epic stuff,

00:55:08.320 | which also during the brainstorming,

00:55:10.840 | some of the ideas you were like, that's better as a short.

00:55:13.680 | That's crazy.

00:55:14.840 | - Yeah, can you remember one?

00:55:16.000 | 'Cause I remember I said that a bunch

00:55:17.120 | and I can't think of one.

00:55:17.960 | - All I remember is that there were like epic videos.

00:55:22.840 | Like really, you're going to do that for a one minute video?

00:55:26.320 | - Yeah. - That's crazy.

00:55:27.160 | So like, are you posting similar content

00:55:29.200 | to a YouTube short as a TikTok?

00:55:30.800 | - Yeah, those we just double up.

00:55:32.200 | It's just hard.

00:55:33.080 | You know, what's actually pretty fascinating

00:55:34.840 | and people who do social media listening to this

00:55:36.800 | will probably find this pretty interesting

00:55:37.880 | is picture like the content creation meta three years ago

00:55:41.600 | versus now where you can make sub one minute

00:55:44.280 | vertical content and it go viral on TikTok,

00:55:46.960 | it go viral on YouTube shorts,

00:55:48.280 | it go viral on Instagram Reels,

00:55:49.680 | it goes viral on Facebook, it goes Reddit.

00:55:52.280 | You know, you swipe through vertical content now

00:55:54.400 | and Twitter when you click on a video

00:55:55.680 | and you flip through it.

00:55:56.520 | So this is actually very weird.

00:55:58.480 | This is the first time in the history of,

00:56:00.200 | I guess, Western social media that one form of content

00:56:03.040 | could actually go super viral on every single platform.

00:56:05.600 | It's never been like that before.

00:56:07.160 | - So they're going viral individually.

00:56:08.840 | They're not like interbreeding or whatever.

00:56:10.920 | - I can post something on TikTok

00:56:12.080 | that'll get a hundred million views

00:56:13.000 | and then post it on shorts and it'll get 200 million views

00:56:14.840 | and then post it on Instagram and it'll get 50 million views.

00:56:17.240 | And then, you know, I haven't yet,

00:56:18.840 | but you know, you can then turn around and tweet it

00:56:20.480 | and it get tens of millions of views

00:56:21.800 | and you can post it on Reddit

00:56:22.640 | and it get tens of millions of views

00:56:23.560 | and Facebook can get tens of millions of views.

00:56:25.960 | And that just wasn't a thing.

00:56:27.720 | Three years ago, Twitter didn't have,

00:56:29.840 | 'cause a lot of you probably don't even know this,

00:56:32.000 | but when you tap on a video now and you swipe down,

00:56:33.680 | it just turns into TikTok.

00:56:34.880 | That wasn't a thing even a year ago.

00:56:36.960 | Reddit, that wasn't a thing a year ago.

00:56:38.720 | Probably two years ago, that wasn't a thing on Instagram.

00:56:41.560 | Three years ago, that wasn't a thing on YouTube,

00:56:43.560 | right, with YouTube shorts.

00:56:44.720 | So this is all new.

00:56:45.960 | And I don't, it's weird.

00:56:47.560 | I haven't heard a single person talk about it,

00:56:49.640 | but this is the first time where content can actually

00:56:53.680 | go viral on every single platform.

00:56:55.400 | And you don't have to write or film a video for Facebook,

00:56:58.640 | film a 12 minute video for YouTube,

00:57:00.480 | film a sub 60 second video for TikTok,

00:57:02.760 | write a tweet for Twitter and post this on Reddit.

00:57:05.160 | You can just do the same thing on every platform.

00:57:07.480 | - And the fact that your content has gone viral

00:57:09.480 | on multiple platforms regularly means

00:57:11.560 | that virality is not accidental.

00:57:15.840 | Sometimes it can be, of course, but it can be engineered.

00:57:19.440 | - It's yeah, so many people say it's luck

00:57:21.200 | and they're like, you're just lucky or this or that,

00:57:22.960 | but what are we up to?

00:57:24.840 | Probably like a thousand videos over 10 million views.

00:57:26.900 | Like we don't ever have a dud.

00:57:28.080 | Like you can call it luck, but I think it can be trained.

00:57:30.600 | I counsel YouTubers all the time

00:57:32.680 | and show them how to go from getting

00:57:34.720 | a couple million views a month

00:57:35.640 | to 10 million views a month very easily.

00:57:37.640 | And from even certain ones, like just one of my friends,

00:57:41.400 | like he was just really struggling.

00:57:42.480 | And so I just started showing him basically everything

00:57:45.160 | I know and just doing like once every week,

00:57:47.200 | sometimes once every two weeks calls.

00:57:49.000 | And he went from $10,000 a month on YouTube to over 400,000

00:57:52.360 | just doing these little counseling calls.

00:57:53.880 | And so, I mean, people can make excuses all they want

00:57:56.360 | and say it's just luck or say, you know, well, anyways,

00:58:00.560 | I don't even want to quote all the other stuff,

00:58:02.120 | but it's just, it is, it is a teachable skill.

00:58:05.240 | It's a learnable skill.

00:58:06.240 | You can study your way to consistently make viral videos,

00:58:10.680 | no matter how small your channel is.

00:58:11.560 | Even if you have zero subscribers,

00:58:13.080 | you could if you actually studied hard enough

00:58:15.440 | and like basically if you knew what I knew

00:58:17.180 | and some of these, so I don't sound so arrogant,

00:58:19.760 | also like some of these other friends that have that,

00:58:21.640 | I'd say are the smartest people in the world

00:58:22.800 | when it comes to content creation online.

00:58:24.480 | If you had the knowledge that was in our heads,

00:58:26.960 | you could do it very easily.

00:58:28.360 | I see people do it all the time.

00:58:30.000 | And what's even more interesting is I go on podcasts

00:58:33.400 | and I say everything I know

00:58:35.600 | and these people are also very open.

00:58:37.280 | Some of them I know.

00:58:38.320 | It's all out there.

00:58:39.640 | And a lot of people, instead of just studying that

00:58:42.080 | and trying to absorb and apply it in their own way,

00:58:43.980 | they're just like, no, it's just luck, you know.

00:58:45.680 | - So you do lay it all out there,

00:58:47.920 | but I gotta push back to one interesting thing.

00:58:50.600 | I think a crucial component of your success

00:58:53.440 | is the idea stage, the idea generation.

00:58:56.320 | The brainstorm I heard today,

00:58:57.520 | but getting really good at generating ideas.

00:59:00.080 | So it's not just the selection of the thumbnail

00:59:05.080 | and the title, that creative process.

00:59:07.460 | It's also just the engine of generating really good ideas.

00:59:12.040 | - Of course. - And getting that.

00:59:13.080 | I mean, I would say that is probably the thing

00:59:16.280 | that needs to be trained the most for most creators, right?

00:59:18.440 | That they just don't put enough ideas on paper.

00:59:21.160 | - Yes, but also a lot of creators also just don't,

00:59:24.600 | which I didn't either for the longest time,

00:59:27.240 | just don't make good enough content,

00:59:29.440 | content that's worthy of getting 10 million views.

00:59:31.520 | - In the idea or the execution of the idea?

00:59:33.360 | - Both.

00:59:34.200 | I mean, like think about how many people

00:59:35.920 | just make videos they film in under 20 minutes

00:59:38.500 | and they don't really put any effort into it.

00:59:41.240 | It's like my first 500 videos

00:59:43.600 | didn't deserve to get a million views.

00:59:44.840 | Like there's a reason they did.

00:59:45.760 | They're terrible, you know what I mean?

00:59:46.960 | But at the time I thought they did, right?

00:59:48.720 | I'm in the mindset of a lot of small YouTubers

00:59:50.840 | where I thought those videos deserved a million views

00:59:52.880 | and I thought the algorithm hated me,

00:59:54.120 | but I watch them back now and I can tell you exactly why.

00:59:55.920 | The videos were just fucking horrible.

00:59:57.360 | You know what I mean?

00:59:58.200 | - Well, so what was the breakthrough for you

00:59:59.360 | to start realizing, to start having a self-awareness

01:00:02.720 | about these videos aren't good enough?

01:00:04.960 | You're probably still going through that.

01:00:06.640 | You're probably still growing to see.

01:00:08.120 | - Yeah, every six months you should look back

01:00:10.420 | and hate your videos,

01:00:11.400 | or at least see things you could improve

01:00:13.440 | and be like, oh, I could have done this better, that better.

01:00:15.760 | If not, then you're not learning quick enough,

01:00:18.840 | in my opinion, at least.

01:00:19.960 | - Where's the source of that learning even for you now?

01:00:23.280 | Just look at the metrics?

01:00:24.120 | - I just got back from a mastermind

01:00:26.480 | where I just got like 10 of the smartest people I knew

01:00:28.980 | and we just locked ourselves in a cabin

01:00:30.880 | and taught each other stuff constantly every day.

01:00:34.200 | Not every day now, probably every other day.

01:00:35.640 | I go on a walk and I just call random people.

01:00:37.320 | I'll just say, teach me something.

01:00:38.760 | And I mean, it's just,

01:00:41.080 | you just have to have a never-ending thirst for learning.

01:00:45.280 | That's very imperative, especially if you want,

01:00:47.360 | like if you want to get on top and then stay on top.

01:00:49.120 | The only way to do it is just to constantly be learning.

01:00:51.000 | Or someone who is learning is just gonna,

01:00:53.160 | you know, have a leg up on you in the knowledge game.

01:00:55.560 | - And what kind of stuff are you,

01:00:56.680 | 'cause you've talked about offline

01:00:58.720 | that you just love learning of all kinds, doesn't matter.

01:01:01.440 | But in terms of videos, are you studying videos?

01:01:03.940 | Are you studying?

01:01:04.960 | - Recently, not as much.

01:01:06.040 | I'm more, 'cause to get to the videos I want,

01:01:08.640 | I have to build this business and scale up and higher.

01:01:10.840 | So more of my recent time has been,

01:01:12.780 | like my teenage years were spent studying virality

01:01:15.040 | and studying content creation.

01:01:16.320 | Now I'm studying how to build a content company

01:01:18.640 | so I can actually produce the crazy ideas I want to produce,

01:01:21.520 | if that makes any sense.

01:01:22.520 | - So yeah, and that's the business side.

01:01:25.080 | We talked about hiring.

01:01:26.160 | Do you have trouble firing people?

01:01:27.800 | - No, I'm pretty sure almost every person,

01:01:29.960 | yeah, actually every person I've ever fired,

01:01:31.400 | we just give them severance.

01:01:32.440 | And I like to see it more as, it's no ill will.

01:01:35.600 | Like if I fired you, if there's some other job

01:01:39.080 | you want me to help you get, I'll DM them on Twitter.

01:01:41.380 | Like, you know, if you want to go work for,

01:01:43.760 | I don't know, Insert whatever, MTV,

01:01:46.200 | give me someone to DM, I'll DM them.

01:01:47.840 | Like, you know, I try to make it more like a transition

01:01:50.800 | and do whatever we can to make it as easy as possible.

01:01:52.640 | - And then something was just not working for you,

01:01:54.600 | 'cause you want people, like you said, super passionate.

01:01:56.640 | - 'Cause at the end of the day,

01:01:57.480 | if you hold someone that, onto someone

01:01:59.800 | that you don't see being here in 10 years,

01:02:01.320 | you're just doing them a disservice.

01:02:02.400 | You're just giving them more in grain,

01:02:03.920 | more in rooted in where they are.

01:02:06.880 | And the sooner you do it and help them move on

01:02:09.040 | to their new life, the better.

01:02:10.980 | - Given all the wisdom you have now,

01:02:14.080 | if you were to give advice to somebody,

01:02:15.360 | or if you were to start over again, you had no money,

01:02:20.360 | what would be the first 10 videos you tried to make

01:02:23.880 | on a new channel?

01:02:24.720 | I guess that's advice for a new person.

01:02:26.960 | And nobody knows you.

01:02:27.880 | - Yeah, nobody knows me.

01:02:28.840 | Yeah, hypothetically, I have a mask on.

01:02:30.360 | - And you also, I guess, don't have the wisdom.

01:02:32.600 | - Well, if I don't have what I have in my head,

01:02:33.920 | then I would say just fail.

01:02:36.360 | Like, just, a lot of people get analysis paralysis

01:02:38.840 | and they'll just sit there

01:02:39.840 | and they'll plan their first video for three months.

01:02:42.080 | And I'm, any of you listening, if you,

01:02:44.880 | especially if you have zero views on your channel,

01:02:46.560 | your first video is not gonna get views, period.

01:02:49.120 | It's not, your first 10 are not gonna get views.

01:02:51.240 | I can very confidently say that.

01:02:52.800 | So stop sitting there and thinking for months and months

01:02:55.560 | on end and just get to work and start uploading.

01:02:57.920 | Like, all you need to do,

01:02:59.720 | this applies to people who have not uploaded videos,

01:03:01.640 | but have dreams of being a YouTuber,

01:03:03.080 | is make a hundred videos and improve something every time.

01:03:05.660 | Do that.

01:03:06.500 | And then on your hundred and first video,

01:03:07.680 | we'll start talking, like maybe you can get some views,

01:03:10.080 | but you know, your first hundred are gonna suck.

01:03:12.240 | There are very freak cases like Liza Koshy

01:03:15.040 | or Emma Chamberlain who have really good personalities

01:03:17.080 | and it doesn't take them so as many videos.

01:03:19.760 | And it's just like people who are seven foot five

01:03:22.440 | and making the NBA.

01:03:23.280 | Like, yes, there are free cases you can find,

01:03:25.320 | but for the average person like us, you know,

01:03:27.720 | who don't have these exceptional personalities

01:03:29.680 | and, you know, backgrounds in filmmaking,

01:03:31.500 | just make a hundred videos, improve something each time,

01:03:34.040 | and then talk to me on your hundred and first video.

01:03:36.200 | - Well, the improve something each time is the tricky one.

01:03:38.800 | How do you improve something each time?

01:03:40.520 | The second one, just, I don't know,

01:03:42.400 | put more effort into the script.

01:03:43.780 | The third one, try to learn a new editing trick.

01:03:45.860 | The fourth one, try to figure out a way

01:03:47.820 | that you can have better inflections in your voice.

01:03:49.480 | The fifth one, try to, you know,

01:03:51.140 | study a new thumbnail tip and implement it.

01:03:53.080 | The sixth one, try to figure out a new title.

01:03:55.140 | There's infinite ways.

01:03:55.980 | That's the beauty of content creation online.

01:03:57.760 | There's literally infinite ways from the coloring,

01:03:59.840 | to the frame rate, to the editing, to the filming,

01:04:01.420 | to the production, to the jokes, to the pacing,

01:04:03.320 | to every little thing can be improved

01:04:05.120 | and they can never not be improved.

01:04:06.400 | There's literally no such thing as a perfect video.

01:04:09.340 | - So if you knew everything you know now, but no money.

01:04:13.220 | - Step one would, I'd just brainstorm like,

01:04:15.180 | okay, I don't have money.

01:04:16.660 | What are some viral things?

01:04:17.860 | Like, I mean, the first thing that comes to my mind

01:04:20.540 | is something as simple as when I count to 100,000,

01:04:22.260 | which is what I did do when I was poor.

01:04:25.180 | And like that worked, but like,

01:04:26.420 | what's something like that I could do

01:04:27.740 | that would be even more attention-gathering?

01:04:30.500 | - You were, as part of the brainstorm,

01:04:33.220 | you would throw out a lot of ideas

01:04:34.860 | and people throw out a bunch of ideas.

01:04:36.460 | And one of the questions is, is this even doable, right?

01:04:39.860 | - First off, come up with ideas you think would do well

01:04:42.220 | and then ask yourself later if they're doable.

01:04:44.020 | 'Cause there's different ways

01:04:45.240 | you can accomplish something.

01:04:46.760 | - Don't be cynical about the doability of stuff.

01:04:49.180 | - Yeah, because there really are so many different ways

01:04:51.320 | you can accomplish a goal.

01:04:53.380 | Like when we give away an island,

01:04:56.460 | like we gave our 100 million subscriber an island.

01:04:59.180 | You can't find private islands that don't look like shit

01:05:02.100 | for less than $10 million.

01:05:03.260 | So this isn't doable, right?

01:05:04.660 | All right, the idea doesn't exist.

01:05:06.360 | Not doable, X it off.

01:05:08.180 | But then, you dig into it

01:05:10.300 | and you find different alternatives and you find, okay,

01:05:12.840 | what if we just buy a $2 million island that sucks

01:05:15.480 | and then spend a million dollars importing some sand,

01:05:18.500 | let's build a beach, let's import 300 trees,

01:05:20.500 | let's build a little bit of canal, let's cut some paths.

01:05:22.540 | Boom, now it's a really nice island,

01:05:25.660 | but it's actually affordable

01:05:26.980 | 'cause we don't have $10 million to spend on a video,

01:05:28.500 | but we can afford to spend three and a half

01:05:30.340 | and lose whatever, a million dollars on that video.

01:05:32.500 | So that's an example of like,

01:05:34.260 | yeah, if you just went off the gut test,

01:05:35.780 | you'd be like, this isn't doable.

01:05:37.220 | Every island's $10 million, we're screwed.

01:05:39.020 | Like if we go cheaper, it's just a terrible island.

01:05:41.180 | No.

01:05:42.020 | And so if you, like,

01:05:43.760 | there are so many different ways

01:05:45.060 | you can achieve what you want.

01:05:45.980 | You really got to push through notes,

01:05:47.320 | which not a lot of people do.

01:05:48.660 | You have to have like a more of a dominant personality

01:05:51.360 | and just a willingness to,

01:05:52.820 | when people tell you it's not possible,

01:05:54.900 | just actually go through all the variables

01:05:57.320 | and eliminate them all yourself.

01:05:58.920 | - Have a stubbornness and a resilience to failure maybe.

01:06:03.580 | - For what we do and creators online,

01:06:05.700 | it's very imperative that you have,

01:06:08.180 | that a no isn't a no to you.

01:06:10.140 | You really have to like think.

01:06:11.940 | And just like, we take a personality test

01:06:15.420 | and like just having a dominant personality

01:06:17.460 | is a better indicator that when someone tells you,

01:06:19.540 | oh, there's no way you're going to build a brick wall

01:06:20.980 | for under a hundred grand, you'll be like, okay.

01:06:23.340 | And then still go check the next 10 vendors

01:06:25.220 | and figure it out.

01:06:27.500 | - Yeah.

01:06:28.340 | What advice would you give to an already established channel

01:06:31.540 | like with one, two, three, four million subscribers,

01:06:34.260 | how to like 10X it, like increase it without losing maybe.

01:06:39.260 | - Yeah, that's where it's very specific,

01:06:40.980 | like channel by channel.

01:06:42.380 | You can't give general advice.

01:06:43.660 | - Okay. - Yeah.

01:06:44.660 | 'Cause if I do, millions of creators are gonna see this

01:06:47.920 | and then they're gonna do it

01:06:48.760 | and I'm gonna fuck them over.

01:06:49.700 | - Oh, I see, I see.

01:06:51.060 | So let's say I'd like 2 million subscribers on this podcast.

01:06:53.900 | - Yeah.

01:06:54.740 | - Like how would you 10X that without sacrificing what it is?

01:06:57.980 | - 10X your stuff.

01:06:58.980 | - Does it matter?

01:06:59.820 | So you've talked about what success.

01:07:01.660 | - Yeah, it's different for everyone.

01:07:03.140 | Like is 10Xing your definition of success?

01:07:05.580 | - No.

01:07:06.420 | - Well then it's gonna be, right off the bat it's hard

01:07:08.020 | because if you don't give a shit about 10Xing,

01:07:09.900 | it's even harder to 10X.

01:07:11.780 | He does this because he likes helping people.

01:07:13.780 | That's one thing I've found throughout this day.

01:07:15.740 | Every time I talk data, it's so funny with him

01:07:18.180 | 'cause it's like, you know, you could do this

01:07:19.700 | to get more views and he'll just be like blank.

01:07:21.780 | I'll be like, that doesn't register anything.

01:07:23.420 | He's just like, doesn't care, which is, it's really cool.

01:07:25.540 | - I'm really nervous about that.

01:07:26.620 | I'm really nervous about the numbers affecting

01:07:29.220 | 'cause it's so fun.

01:07:30.500 | - Oh yeah.

01:07:31.340 | - It's so fun to focus on the numbers

01:07:32.580 | and I'm really worried about that.

01:07:34.340 | But at the same time, you should be cognizant of that

01:07:37.060 | because you've created not just some of the most watched

01:07:40.460 | videos, but some of the most amazing videos ever.

01:07:43.280 | So there's a strong correlation there.

01:07:45.820 | It's not like you're selling your soul

01:07:47.420 | to make a highly viewed video.

01:07:49.220 | It's actually, if you look at the metrics,

01:07:51.860 | it helps you understand what is compelling and not.

01:07:54.660 | And so I feel like I am,

01:07:59.740 | I feel like there's some value to investigate

01:08:03.300 | what work, when people tune on and when not,

01:08:05.820 | to be more data-driven, even on podcasts.

01:08:08.660 | But I'm really afraid of that.

01:08:09.500 | - On the flip side, I think part of the appeal

01:08:11.020 | is that you don't care about that kind of stuff.

01:08:13.220 | - But there could be stuff that doesn't have to do

01:08:15.400 | anything with that and it has to do with stylistic choices

01:08:18.220 | of lighting and cameras, or maybe with,

01:08:20.860 | for example, topics.

01:08:25.660 | - Yeah.

01:08:27.020 | Even what you've asked me here is different

01:08:28.940 | than what most people ask me.

01:08:29.980 | - Yeah, so it could be, and it'd be nice to understand that.

01:08:32.620 | But again, I'm worried about polluting the creative process.

01:08:35.100 | - At the end of the day, this is a true case

01:08:37.260 | of it's your own intuition.

01:08:38.660 | You know your viewers better than anyone else.

01:08:41.100 | It's whatever--

01:08:41.940 | - See, I'd like to push back on that.

01:08:42.900 | I really don't.

01:08:43.740 | - You do.

01:08:44.580 | - I don't.

01:08:45.400 | - Who else?

01:08:46.240 | Name one person who knows your viewers better than you.

01:08:47.140 | - Somebody that looks at numbers of podcasts?

01:08:50.300 | - No, you know your viewers.

01:08:51.860 | You know, you're the only, how many episodes have you done?

01:08:54.540 | - 350.

01:08:55.380 | - Exactly.

01:08:56.200 | - But I'm not paying attention--

01:08:57.040 | - You're the only one who's watched every second

01:08:58.660 | of all 350 of them, probably.

01:08:59.980 | - That's just not, no, I haven't.

01:09:02.300 | But the--

01:09:03.420 | - Well, 'cause you did it, so you do know what's in all of 'em.

01:09:06.020 | It's your content, it's you.

01:09:07.660 | I'm telling you, you do, and this is just one

01:09:09.700 | of those moments where you're an intelligent guy

01:09:11.860 | and you just have to trust your instincts.

01:09:15.180 | Just think, what is the typical ex-viewer,

01:09:17.740 | and what do they want?

01:09:18.660 | - I don't think like that.

01:09:20.300 | - But that's all you would have to do.

01:09:21.300 | And whatever your gut tells you,

01:09:22.620 | that would be the best guess.

01:09:24.460 | - You don't know what the typical viewer is, though.

01:09:26.900 | - I don't, 'cause to investigate that,

01:09:29.540 | it'd be very, very difficult.

01:09:30.580 | And then you have to start looking at the numbers,

01:09:32.100 | you have to start to consider the demographics.

01:09:34.260 | The only way I know that anybody even watches it

01:09:36.980 | is 'cause I'll sometimes run into people,

01:09:39.220 | like when I run along the river,

01:09:40.740 | and they'd be like, "I love you, Lex."

01:09:42.420 | It's like, okay, well, that's a data point,

01:09:45.540 | and they're like cool people.

01:09:46.580 | But I don't know, I don't have any other,

01:09:49.420 | it's difficult, man.

01:09:51.380 | It's difficult to know who listens to "Boxes,"

01:09:54.900 | it's difficult to, do you have a sense

01:09:56.460 | of who's, I mean, you're so huge that everybody watches.

01:10:00.180 | - Yeah, but no, I still do.

01:10:01.780 | I'd say if you were to just put a gun to my head,

01:10:04.580 | and you're like, all right, we're gonna pick

01:10:05.980 | a random person that watched your last video,

01:10:08.020 | and you have to roughly guess what they are,

01:10:09.940 | and if you're not close, we'll kill you.

01:10:11.660 | I would say probably a teenager that plays video games.

01:10:15.260 | Like that would be probably the typical one.

01:10:19.220 | And then there are people that are maybe

01:10:20.500 | a little bit younger, a lot of people

01:10:21.780 | that are older as well.

01:10:23.220 | But in a random sample size, yeah,

01:10:25.380 | it's probably like a male boy that plays video games.

01:10:27.860 | Like that's the best way I would describe it.

01:10:29.500 | But I don't try to pertain to them.

01:10:30.760 | I just make whatever I think is interesting

01:10:32.580 | and good content.

01:10:33.500 | And this is what we were talking about before.

01:10:35.700 | Even though, hypothetically, 35 to 40% of my audience

01:10:38.820 | is women, which is less than the majority,

01:10:41.980 | if we get 100 million views a video,

01:10:43.220 | that's still 30 to 40 million females

01:10:44.900 | that watch every video, which is probably

01:10:46.780 | the largest views per video for women

01:10:51.220 | on the whole platform, which you wouldn't think that.

01:10:53.900 | Like I can't think of a single other creator

01:10:55.940 | that gets more women to watch their videos than that.

01:10:59.460 | And so it's just anything, even people above the age of 30,

01:11:02.900 | even if it's only like three or 4%,

01:11:04.940 | that's still three to 4% of 100 million views

01:11:06.980 | is a lot of people that age.

01:11:08.280 | So we hit a large group of kind of every demographic,

01:11:13.280 | if that makes any sense.

01:11:15.340 | - So what if we look at other, maybe more challenging

01:11:18.140 | kinds of channels, or not, but if we look at educational,

01:11:21.380 | for example, like lectures, or if we look,

01:11:23.940 | yeah, educational, it could be short videos.

01:11:25.940 | Like how would you 10x that?

01:11:28.900 | Like something on robotics, on biology,

01:11:32.100 | on science, on engineering, on all of that,

01:11:35.420 | that's more educational focused.

01:11:36.820 | - We would honestly just have to pull the,

01:11:38.820 | 'cause it's the same way, if you went to Gordon Ramsay

01:11:40.700 | and you said, "How would a new cook cook better?"

01:11:43.260 | You know, it's like--

01:11:44.660 | - Even then, that's not even specific,

01:11:45.980 | you have to go channel by channel.

01:11:47.020 | - You really do, or I'm giving horrible advice.

01:11:49.580 | Because if there was these just golden rules,

01:11:51.300 | everyone would do it, you know what I mean?

01:11:52.660 | Like if there's these magical little principles.

01:11:54.980 | - How quickly, when you look at a channel,

01:11:56.780 | can you kind of give advice?

01:11:58.540 | - Yeah, it's like surface level at the start,

01:12:00.860 | and then the more, if we watch 10 videos,

01:12:02.340 | I feel like I'd have a good profile,

01:12:03.780 | and I could tell you, in my opinion,

01:12:06.140 | especially once I look at the analytics

01:12:07.500 | and I get more ingrained in like,

01:12:08.660 | okay, the typical viewer's this, they're from here,

01:12:10.900 | here's how they're feeling, you know?

01:12:12.700 | 'Cause there are people who make videos for rednecks,

01:12:15.540 | and like the rednecks' taste of content

01:12:17.900 | is just so much different than, obviously,

01:12:20.020 | women watching makeup videos,

01:12:21.100 | which are so much different than, you know,

01:12:23.060 | teenage boys watching a Minecraft video.

01:12:24.980 | They're just all different.

01:12:25.980 | So the biggest thing you have to do

01:12:27.420 | is put your head in the headspace of the viewer

01:12:30.780 | and see the content how they would.

01:12:32.380 | 'Cause if you just try to only give your taste,

01:12:34.300 | which is what a lot of people do,

01:12:35.500 | and things from your perspective, it's very biased,

01:12:37.940 | and it's just not gonna work for everyone.

01:12:40.100 | And that's actually how you do more harm than good,

01:12:41.740 | which is something I'm very careful of.

01:12:43.480 | - Yeah, but at the same time,

01:12:44.540 | it's just generating a lot of ideas.

01:12:45.700 | I think the first time I've talked to you

01:12:47.140 | was on Clubhouse, actually.

01:12:48.740 | And I mentioned something about robots,

01:12:50.700 | and like almost immediately,

01:12:51.860 | you went to generating a bunch of ideas around robots.

01:12:53.740 | - Oh yeah, easily.

01:12:55.340 | 100 robots versus 100 humans.

01:12:56.980 | Yeah, how far can a robot throw a potato?

01:12:59.340 | - I think your idea, like, I think the first idea

01:13:01.140 | was because you just said so many ideas

01:13:02.500 | I never even thought of.

01:13:04.420 | But it shows the value of basically brainstorming

01:13:08.620 | with people that think differently.

01:13:09.820 | - But at the end of the day, my ideas are probably,

01:13:11.700 | you know, might lean towards some people

01:13:14.460 | a little bit younger than your audience.

01:13:15.540 | Like some of the stuff I'm-- - Could be.

01:13:16.660 | - Yeah. - But there's still ideas.

01:13:17.620 | Like I think the first one you said,

01:13:18.820 | 'cause we're talking about a quadruped,

01:13:20.500 | like robot dogs, you said to replace a biological dog

01:13:25.500 | with a robot dog and see if the owner notices something.

01:13:27.820 | You were just quickly brainstorming

01:13:29.220 | different ideas of like how--

01:13:30.060 | - This was years ago, I remember it now.

01:13:31.860 | Yeah. (Lex laughs)

01:13:32.820 | - Which is just, I mean, it's like, oh yeah,

01:13:34.420 | I never really thought about that kind of,

01:13:36.380 | sort of, it's the basic, the tension between

01:13:39.260 | what does it take for a robot and an AI system

01:13:41.420 | to replace the biological systems that we,

01:13:43.700 | the biological creatures that we love in our lives.

01:13:46.860 | - Yeah, and but like that was like the pace

01:13:51.260 | of idea generation was the thing that struck me.

01:13:55.740 | Today and in general, it's like that's how you get

01:13:58.540 | at good videos is you keep--

01:14:01.580 | - It's much easier to make a video around a good idea,

01:14:04.620 | obviously, than a bad one.

01:14:06.260 | You just send yourself up for success.

01:14:08.100 | - Okay, so that's for 10xing a really popular channel.

01:14:12.340 | What's the hardest number?

01:14:13.340 | You said the numbers that matters,

01:14:16.020 | click-through rate, average view duration, and surveys.

01:14:19.900 | What's the hardest number to optimize for?

01:14:22.660 | - Probably surveys, you know.

01:14:24.220 | - Do you have any insight into the surveys at all?

01:14:26.500 | - No, not really, but if you just click

01:14:28.460 | on a bunch of random videos online,

01:14:29.660 | you'll eventually get a survey.

01:14:30.960 | What's this video transformative, heartwarming, inspiring?

01:14:33.780 | What people rate does make a difference?

01:14:36.380 | And it's like you can get people to click a video,

01:14:38.540 | you can get them to watch it,

01:14:39.540 | but you can't really fake whether or not they're satisfied.

01:14:41.740 | Like they don't lie, the surveys, you know?

01:14:45.260 | Maybe one person here and there might troll,

01:14:46.740 | but once you aggregate enough,

01:14:48.460 | it's a pretty clear telltale of the video.

01:14:50.500 | So either you're making a great video or you're not.

01:14:53.460 | - What is it?

01:14:54.300 | Minimizing the non-regrettability.

01:14:59.340 | - Yeah, I think Elon tweeted that.

01:15:01.060 | That's what he's trying to do on Twitter.

01:15:02.460 | - For Twitter, and that's interesting.

01:15:03.580 | That's basically the survey metric,

01:15:05.220 | how happy you are that you've been using the platform.

01:15:06.780 | - Yeah, Elon tweeted, "We want to limit the amount

01:15:09.420 | "of regrettable minutes people spend on Twitter."

01:15:11.980 | And the first thing I thought, it's like,

01:15:13.500 | that's something YouTube already has unlocked.

01:15:15.100 | Like their whole survey system and feedback loop.

01:15:18.060 | - How tough is it to take on YouTube, you think?

01:15:20.460 | - For Twitter?

01:15:22.300 | - Yeah, for Twitter, for anybody else.

01:15:24.660 | - I mean, it's gonna be basically impossible.

01:15:27.420 | I mean, YouTube's not going anywhere.

01:15:29.020 | And I don't know, I don't think anyone's gonna do

01:15:32.580 | what YouTube does better than them,

01:15:34.580 | at least not in the next 10 years.

01:15:36.260 | - You asked on Twitter, "Would you rather have $10 million

01:15:41.260 | "or 10 million subscribers on YouTube?"

01:15:45.060 | What would your own answer be

01:15:46.820 | at various stages in your career?

01:15:48.580 | - If I had nothing, I would say $10 million.

01:15:51.580 | Because with $10 million, you can hire some people

01:15:55.220 | and pump out content with like a million or two,

01:15:58.420 | get 10 million subscribers,

01:15:59.500 | and then keep the other eight million.

01:16:01.220 | - So that's if you believe in your ability

01:16:03.380 | to grow a channel, if you--

01:16:05.340 | - Well, yeah, if you don't believe in your ability

01:16:08.060 | to grow a channel, then you shouldn't take

01:16:09.940 | the 10 million subscribers,

01:16:11.140 | 'cause you're just gonna kill the channel.

01:16:12.820 | So the 10 million is definitely,

01:16:14.580 | a better question would be,

01:16:15.740 | would you rather have a million dollars

01:16:17.180 | or 10 million subscribers?

01:16:18.100 | That's where it gets a little tricky.

01:16:19.620 | 'Cause now it's like, hmm,

01:16:21.660 | a million dollars, life-changing amount of money.

01:16:24.380 | But if you semi-know what you're doing,

01:16:26.260 | you'd probably make a million dollars

01:16:27.580 | off a 10 million subscriber channel,

01:16:28.780 | but there's a little bit of risk.

01:16:30.620 | - A million dollars might not be enough

01:16:32.380 | to build a strong team,

01:16:33.980 | 'cause you don't know how to do it,

01:16:35.020 | so you might waste all of that money.

01:16:36.260 | - Yeah, or they just keep it and retire, yeah.

01:16:38.420 | - Okay, that's true.

01:16:39.260 | - Yeah, 'cause 10 million's just so high,

01:16:40.580 | it's like, just never work again, who cares?

01:16:42.620 | For the average human, that's so much money.

01:16:44.660 | - It's interesting to me also to the value

01:16:46.140 | of the subscriber versus the value of the dollar.

01:16:48.580 | I suppose, how valuable is the subscriber for,

01:16:53.100 | like what percentage of the videos,

01:16:55.740 | like how active are the subscribers in watching the video?

01:16:58.540 | For you.

01:17:00.300 | - That's hard, I don't know.

01:17:01.380 | I was actually thinking more about the subscriber to dollar.

01:17:03.700 | Like if someone has 10 million subscribers,

01:17:05.380 | have they made 10 million dollars?

01:17:06.780 | I don't know why that kind of popped in my head.

01:17:09.740 | It's an interesting thought.

01:17:12.260 | - Do you ever, when you analyze videos,

01:17:16.060 | do you ever analyze videos,

01:17:17.180 | like we've talked about offline,

01:17:18.900 | of other videos across YouTube in general

01:17:21.820 | to understand trends, to understand social behavior?

01:17:23.940 | - Well, all your, not all,

01:17:25.420 | but a lot of the questions are analytics-based.

01:17:27.780 | - Yeah.

01:17:28.620 | - Yeah, it's so funny. - 'Cause I love it.

01:17:29.820 | I mean, it's just a giant social experiment, right?

01:17:31.860 | Like what people like to watch, what people share.

01:17:34.140 | - Yeah. - It's like a fascinating--

01:17:36.140 | - So, like I said before,

01:17:37.620 | what percentage of your audience do you think

01:17:39.260 | care about this kind of stuff?

01:17:40.660 | Like this deeply about YouTube analytics?

01:17:43.340 | - I think a large amount care about curiosity

01:17:46.980 | and exploration of interesting ideas.

01:17:51.700 | So in that sense-- - This would fit it.

01:17:53.060 | - Yeah, this would fit it.

01:17:55.140 | I love it.

01:17:56.060 | This is funny.

01:17:56.900 | And this isn't me like trying to make,

01:17:58.940 | I love you. - Yeah, I love you too.

01:17:59.780 | - And I actually, I loved your Magnus one,

01:18:02.580 | and even your Hikaru one was really good,

01:18:04.220 | and a bunch of other ones.

01:18:05.060 | But I think we're getting to the point now

01:18:07.460 | where only analytics junkies

01:18:08.940 | would want to keep hearing more analytics talk.

01:18:10.940 | And the normie is probably like,

01:18:12.460 | they've had their dose of YouTube talk

01:18:14.060 | for the next three years.

01:18:15.940 | Maybe I'm wrong.

01:18:16.780 | Hey, comment if I'm wrong.

01:18:17.620 | I could be.

01:18:18.460 | I don't know your audience.

01:18:19.300 | See, this is where you would tell me,

01:18:21.420 | "Shut up, I know my audience, you dumbass."

01:18:24.020 | - And I don't at all.

01:18:25.500 | I actually, I just follow the thread of curiosity.

01:18:28.980 | And I think there's just a lot of curious humans

01:18:30.980 | in the world.

01:18:31.860 | And to me, it's like,

01:18:33.740 | so the question about analytics

01:18:36.700 | is the question of basically stepping away,

01:18:40.460 | stepping outside of yourself,

01:18:42.060 | and thinking, "Why the hell do I like TikTok so much?

01:18:44.300 | "Why do I like Twitter so much?

01:18:45.600 | "Why do I like YouTube so much?"

01:18:47.620 | And getting, even if you're not a creator,

01:18:50.060 | getting an insight into that is really interesting.

01:18:52.900 | It's like, what,

01:18:54.180 | 'cause all these platforms are fundamentally changing

01:18:58.260 | the nature of content.

01:18:59.780 | People are reading books less.

01:19:00.980 | They're probably going to be watching movies less and less.

01:19:03.540 | They're probably going to be watching Netflix less and less.

01:19:06.660 | - Do you ever think about the sort of the darker side

01:19:09.180 | of YouTube and with shadow banning and censorship

01:19:12.820 | and all that kind of topics,

01:19:14.100 | especially if you see it in other platforms like Twitter,

01:19:17.180 | that Elon recently highlighted the shadow banning

01:19:22.180 | that was happening, and in general,

01:19:24.020 | the censorship that was happening on those platforms.

01:19:26.180 | Do you think about the role of centralized control

01:19:30.140 | of which information is or isn't made available

01:19:33.380 | through search and discovery?

01:19:34.980 | - I'll be honest.

01:19:36.140 | I never really think about it.

01:19:37.740 | (laughs)

01:19:39.260 | - You just try to make fun videos.

01:19:41.420 | - Yeah, I'm kind of more in my own lane,

01:19:43.220 | but it's not that I don't just specifically think about it.

01:19:45.580 | I just like a lot of stuff in general.

01:19:47.420 | Like, I'm just kind of in my own lane

01:19:49.300 | thinking about my own stuff.

01:19:51.180 | But now that you asked, I'm curious.

01:19:53.540 | What are your thoughts on YouTube and that kind of stuff?

01:19:55.820 | - Well, I'm generally against centralized censorship

01:20:00.700 | or shadow banning.

01:20:01.540 | Shadow banning is the worst one

01:20:02.860 | because not that the goal of creating a healthy platform

01:20:07.580 | where you're having great conversations

01:20:09.180 | and videos that are not spreading misinformation,

01:20:12.600 | that sounds like an admirable goal,

01:20:14.780 | but that's too difficult of a job for a centralized entity.

01:20:17.200 | That's too big of a responsibility.

01:20:18.220 | - Yeah, and there's the misinformation stuff,

01:20:20.380 | and then there's also just like the videos

01:20:22.300 | where they do something that causes,

01:20:24.860 | what happened back in the day, the adpocalypse.

01:20:28.820 | You know, a lot of creators' revenue plummets

01:20:30.760 | because people are doing videos

01:20:33.040 | that advertisers don't deem acceptable,

01:20:34.580 | and then now all these big advertisers are pulling,

01:20:36.960 | and the little guys are getting hit

01:20:39.020 | because ad rates dropped by 30%,

01:20:40.540 | and the person who just quit his job

01:20:41.700 | to go full-time content creation now can't sustain it.

01:20:44.580 | So it's also, it's like a lot of different variables as well

01:20:47.740 | that makes it so complicated.

01:20:49.500 | - Well, I think the big thing is transparency,

01:20:51.100 | especially around shadow banning for people.

01:20:53.580 | - I agree.

01:20:54.420 | On shadow banning, you should be transparent.

01:20:56.340 | You should let people know.

01:20:59.280 | Obviously, there has to be some type of controls.

01:21:01.040 | People can't just post whatever,

01:21:02.520 | and so if you're pulling those levers,

01:21:04.400 | they should at least know.

01:21:05.960 | - Yeah, so they know how to improve their content,

01:21:09.320 | they can understand it, they can--

01:21:10.480 | - Exactly.

01:21:11.660 | - If it's a wrong shadow banning,

01:21:14.120 | like as a society, we should not shadow ban

01:21:16.240 | this kind of content, that means--

01:21:17.720 | - Exactly.

01:21:18.560 | - You should be publicly discussing it and having that--

01:21:19.880 | - 'Cause if not, and if it's not known,

01:21:21.780 | then it's just kind of like,

01:21:22.920 | well, then who's pulling the strings,

01:21:24.280 | and how do we know they're not just manipulating things

01:21:27.000 | to get whatever message they want out there

01:21:29.120 | and silence other ones?

01:21:30.380 | - Yeah, and there could be sort of in the background

01:21:32.100 | government influence, which is where actual freedom

01:21:34.420 | of speech comes into play, that the government

01:21:36.980 | should not have any control or be able to put pressure

01:21:39.900 | on censorship of speech, and it gets weird

01:21:43.640 | if none of that is being, there's no transparency

01:21:45.700 | around it, you know?

01:21:46.540 | - Exactly.

01:21:47.380 | - But to be fair, that's a huge responsibility.

01:21:50.500 | The amount of content that YouTube,

01:21:53.340 | is uploaded on YouTube, that is shared by YouTube,

01:21:56.620 | viewed by YouTube--

01:21:57.460 | - More of a reason why it would probably make sense

01:21:59.800 | to be transparent, you know?

01:22:00.840 | - Yeah.

01:22:01.680 | - Because then people can help fact check it.

01:22:03.760 | - That's right, but that requires building a platform

01:22:06.140 | that makes that easy, right?

01:22:07.920 | Like to make fact checking easy, to make the,

01:22:12.920 | like Twitter now has like being able to share context

01:22:15.420 | and all that kind of stuff, that crowdsource it,

01:22:17.700 | crowdsource it the way Wikipedia crowdsource it.

01:22:19.840 | I mean, there's, it's, right.

01:22:22.280 | - And then you open a random Wikipedia article.

01:22:24.200 | (both laughing)

01:22:25.600 | - But like, you know, people criticize Wikipedia

01:22:27.960 | because there is a political lean

01:22:30.240 | to the editors of Wikipedia, and then they get,

01:22:33.400 | there's some articles that definitely have a bias to them

01:22:35.760 | and all that kind of stuff.

01:22:36.600 | It's a difficult problem, it's a difficult problem to solve

01:22:39.040 | that ultimately, as much as possible, it would be nice

01:22:42.280 | for the viewer to have control of that

01:22:43.920 | versus the entity that's hosting it.

01:22:47.440 | So for the viewer to decide--

01:22:48.280 | - I'll let you figure that stuff out.

01:22:49.560 | I'm just gonna make fun--

01:22:50.800 | - Cool videos?

01:22:51.640 | - Yeah, yeah.

01:22:52.480 | - You know, let's go to Antarctica again.

01:22:54.620 | How was that?

01:22:55.460 | How was going to, you just came back from Antarctica.

01:22:56.880 | That was, I watched the video.

01:22:58.880 | That was, that was fun.

01:23:00.560 | That was a really fun video.

01:23:01.720 | - Thank you.

01:23:02.560 | - There's, I mean, there's a lot of things

01:23:04.920 | I can comment about that, but what was that,

01:23:06.520 | what was the hardest part of making that video?

01:23:08.760 | - The hardest part was just getting out there.

01:23:11.680 | It's just so remote.

01:23:13.600 | And, you know, you land the plane on just this ice runway

01:23:17.640 | and it's so sketchy, and then once the plane takes off,

01:23:20.720 | you're just there.

01:23:22.000 | You're the most remote place on the planet.

01:23:24.260 | And it's just, it's very breathtaking.

01:23:27.840 | I don't, if you have the chance to ever go to Antarctica,

01:23:30.960 | I would recommend it.

01:23:31.840 | It was probably like the, in the video we climbed a mountain

01:23:35.480 | that wasn't named, so we can name it.

01:23:37.120 | And like standing on top of that mountain

01:23:38.640 | and just seeing, kind of like nothing.

01:23:40.960 | 'Cause once you get outside the outskirts

01:23:43.200 | and you get deep in Antarctica, there's no penguins.

01:23:45.360 | Nothing lives there at all.

01:23:47.360 | And so there's just nothing in every direction.

01:23:49.440 | It's just snow and these crazy beautiful mountains

01:23:52.120 | and some of them stick into the clouds

01:23:54.100 | and if you go during summertime, the sun never goes down.

01:23:58.120 | So the sun's up 24/7 and it's just like spinning

01:24:00.580 | in circles at the top of the planet or whatever.

01:24:02.600 | It looks like the top.

01:24:04.240 | - Yeah, you guys commented several times

01:24:05.520 | how beautiful it was.

01:24:06.360 | - Yeah, and so it's just, yeah, it was just very beautiful.

01:24:09.080 | - What about shooting itself,

01:24:10.100 | like the technical aspects of shooting it?

01:24:12.120 | - Oh, I mean, well, so somehow we lucked out.

01:24:14.840 | One of the days was like the warmest day in like forever

01:24:17.960 | that's been in Antarctica.

01:24:19.040 | It was like, it was positive degrees.

01:24:21.280 | But at certain parts, it was also like negative 20,

01:24:23.200 | negative 30 and that's where the cameras,

01:24:25.640 | you constantly have to be switching out the batteries

01:24:27.440 | and heating them up and like putting them basically

01:24:29.760 | in like your pants or they'll just get way too cold.

01:24:32.480 | And we were prepared for much worse,

01:24:34.940 | but it ended up being much better than we thought.

01:24:37.360 | - So for that video, but in general,

01:24:38.600 | maybe some other challenging videos,

01:24:39.960 | how do you go from the idea stage to the actual execution

01:24:43.400 | to the final video?

01:24:44.240 | Can you take me through like a full process of,

01:24:46.880 | like we're talking about some crazy wild ideas today.

01:24:49.920 | How do you go from that to a final video

01:24:52.080 | where you click publish?

01:24:53.200 | - Well, I mean, obviously first things first,

01:24:55.400 | you gotta figure out the idea and then it just depends.

01:24:57.880 | I mean, pick any video you can think of on my channel.

01:24:59.800 | I can take you through it.

01:25:01.100 | - Well, what about the, in a circle,

01:25:06.300 | you have to stay in a circle for 100 days.

01:25:09.160 | - Yeah, so for that one, step one.

01:25:11.440 | - One of the most popular.

01:25:12.480 | - Yeah, that video did really well.

01:25:14.120 | So we, problem is we have to,

01:25:18.360 | this is where you get really into the nuances

01:25:20.280 | of the company 'cause we have a lot of videos going out.

01:25:22.960 | You can't just in a vacuum be like,

01:25:24.680 | all right, we're not doing anything for 100 days,

01:25:26.040 | we're only filming this.

01:25:27.080 | So step one is we had to build an independent crew

01:25:29.320 | that could actually do that for 100 days.

01:25:31.180 | That way everyone else could keep working

01:25:32.400 | on the normal videos and not just screw everything up.

01:25:35.400 | So step one, you build that team.

01:25:37.540 | Okay, we got the team.

01:25:38.800 | Now what do we need?

01:25:39.720 | Well, to do this, we need probably like 10 cameras,

01:25:43.360 | at least rolling at all times.

01:25:44.680 | So we're probably gonna need to get a trailer

01:25:47.160 | and hook up a bunch of storage and stuff

01:25:49.440 | to just carry the sheer volume of footage we're gonna have.

01:25:52.280 | And so get a trailer, set up the cameras,

01:25:55.000 | go out in the field, paint a circle.

01:25:56.560 | Now we need a house, go buy a house, bring it out there.

01:26:00.000 | And then it's like, oh wait, I think it'd be funny

01:26:01.760 | if I brought the house in on the intro.

01:26:04.080 | Find a crane that can lift up a house

01:26:05.720 | so I can drive it in and drop it in the intro.

01:26:07.720 | - And that's like an iterative process

01:26:09.200 | where you're like, okay, this would be funnier.

01:26:10.600 | So this is not all upfront that you just written.

01:26:12.320 | - Yeah, ideally it would be,

01:26:13.920 | but as you kind of see things, you get inspired

01:26:16.340 | and then you think of more and more.

01:26:17.760 | - This would be better with a crane.

01:26:19.680 | - Yeah, it'd be better if I dropped out of the house.

01:26:21.600 | - Drop it, yeah.

01:26:23.000 | That was crazy that you decided to do that.

01:26:25.380 | So fearless in the kind of crazy stuff you're willing to do.

01:26:28.440 | - Exactly, I'm a broken record,

01:26:30.360 | but whatever makes the best video possible.

01:26:32.280 | That's all you focus on.

01:26:34.900 | - Okay, so what about the delegation of like,

01:26:38.200 | who gets to, what are the cameramen,

01:26:40.440 | like the people operating the cameras,

01:26:42.800 | who's responsible for different things?

01:26:44.520 | Is it like a distributed process?

01:26:46.520 | - No, that's where whoever the lead cam

01:26:48.120 | would be on that video would just decide it.

01:26:49.640 | That one, 'cause we shot over a hundred days,

01:26:51.400 | we didn't, a lot of it was just Sean,

01:26:53.800 | the guy who was in the circle, just vlogging.

01:26:55.640 | We just gave him a camera and he figured it out.

01:26:57.720 | And then we'd have like for him just set hours each day

01:27:00.600 | that a cameraman would come.

01:27:01.600 | So if he had any content, he needed extra hands.

01:27:04.040 | Instead of just having someone on standby 24/7,

01:27:06.360 | it made more sense to do set hours.

01:27:07.880 | - Nice.

01:27:09.200 | - And yeah, it was hard, but explaining it in hindsight,

01:27:14.120 | it sounds so simple.

01:27:16.120 | - And I guess like the more,

01:27:17.960 | 'cause that one is relatively simple, I guess,

01:27:20.040 | because it's a low number of people.

01:27:21.800 | - Yeah, the hard part about that is just the time.

01:27:23.720 | Like, you know, I checked in on them so many different days

01:27:26.240 | and it's like an hour here, two hours there,

01:27:28.560 | three hours there, over a hundred days

01:27:30.600 | adds up to be a ton of time.

01:27:32.480 | And even then, like, you know, if you have a 10 person crew,

01:27:36.320 | you know, paying them daily rates for a hundred days,

01:27:38.400 | it just, all of it adds up.

01:27:40.040 | - What about like the hundred versus hundred,

01:27:41.840 | hundred adults versus hundred kids?

01:27:45.960 | What was bringing that to life?

01:27:48.720 | That seems like exceptionally challenging.

01:27:50.440 | - Yeah, basically the thought process was

01:27:52.040 | we did a hundred boys versus hundred girls.

01:27:54.800 | People loved it.

01:27:55.640 | Honestly, I didn't think they'd like it as much as they did.

01:27:57.680 | Video did really, really well.

01:27:59.200 | So the second I saw that video was crushing,

01:28:00.880 | I was like, all right, we're doing it again.

01:28:02.640 | But last time we did it, we did in our studio.

01:28:04.400 | So we built a giant room, put a hundred girls in it.

01:28:07.360 | Sounds bad when I explain it like this.

01:28:09.080 | And then a giant room put a hundred boys.

01:28:10.520 | And we're like, after a hundred hours,

01:28:12.000 | whichever room has the most people,

01:28:13.080 | we'll give them half a million dollars.

01:28:14.400 | So it did well.

01:28:15.400 | So we're like, all right, we're gonna do it again.

01:28:17.120 | So we threw out all these different ideas.

01:28:18.920 | It was like a hundred football players

01:28:20.480 | versus a hundred cheerleaders,

01:28:21.440 | a hundred this, a hundred that,

01:28:23.520 | a hundred prisoners versus a hundred cops.

01:28:25.000 | Just craziest ideas.

01:28:26.520 | And we settled on a hundred kids versus a hundred adults.

01:28:29.880 | And then the next step was like, how do we make it better?

01:28:33.160 | The kids versus adults, or the, sorry,

01:28:35.680 | boys versus girls, the first one we did was inside.

01:28:38.040 | And the problem was every time it was night,

01:28:39.400 | when we did these long time lapses,

01:28:40.760 | you couldn't see the sun go up and down.

01:28:42.480 | So we're like, okay, this time I want to do it outside.

01:28:44.440 | So the cubes are outside.

01:28:46.320 | And instead of doing circles, we want to make them cubes.

01:28:48.960 | And then, you know, it was figuring out,

01:28:51.080 | do we want the, yeah, just.

01:28:52.920 | - Those videos came up at least today

01:28:54.560 | as ones that are like really complicated

01:28:56.560 | in terms of the audio, in terms of how to film it.

01:28:58.880 | - Yeah, that's the problem.

01:28:59.760 | We had a lot of audio issues

01:29:01.040 | 'cause in the first one, we didn't have a roof on it.

01:29:03.560 | The second one, there was a roof.

01:29:05.280 | So there's a lot of reverb,

01:29:06.520 | which then in editing made it brutal.

01:29:08.480 | Like half the shots weren't usable

01:29:10.600 | and it really screwed us over.

01:29:11.760 | So we had to do a lot of Frankensteining

01:29:13.400 | in the editing to make up for basically my ignorance.

01:29:16.120 | - So you mentioned that you were surprised

01:29:17.640 | how well that one did.

01:29:20.000 | A lot of creators talk about getting depressed

01:29:24.120 | when the videos don't do as well as they kind of expected.

01:29:28.160 | There's a kind of feeling

01:29:29.920 | you can get really worn out by that.

01:29:31.720 | Do you yourself feel that?

01:29:35.480 | And also, do you have advice for others that feel this?

01:29:38.280 | - Yeah, it's weird 'cause I am a numbers guy,

01:29:41.280 | but also it used to.

01:29:43.520 | It used to very much,

01:29:45.680 | especially when I was like betting

01:29:47.200 | everything I had on a video.

01:29:48.440 | When it did bad, I was devastated, man.

01:29:50.880 | I'd cry and I'd be depressed for days

01:29:52.800 | and it really would have a severe impact on my mood.

01:29:55.280 | But I don't know, now it doesn't really matter.

01:29:57.640 | If a video does bad, I just look at it

01:30:00.280 | and I'm like, "Oh, why'd this video do bad?"

01:30:02.880 | Probably, "Oh, there's a little retention dip there.

01:30:05.200 | "I don't think people like the thumbnail.

01:30:06.480 | "Maybe we should switch it."

01:30:07.320 | And I just look at it objectively, unemotional,

01:30:09.680 | and then just move on.

01:30:11.000 | And I feel like that's a much healthier way

01:30:12.160 | of going about it.

01:30:13.000 | So if a creator is listening,

01:30:14.960 | that is the ideal way to respond to a video

01:30:19.040 | that's doing bad.

01:30:19.880 | Just remove emotion from the equation

01:30:21.760 | and just look at it and figure out

01:30:23.200 | how you can improve the next one.

01:30:24.160 | - Is there tricks to being able to detach yourself

01:30:26.960 | from that?

01:30:28.360 | Because in your case, that's true for creators,

01:30:31.720 | but in your case, there's a lot of money on the line.

01:30:35.360 | - Yeah, well, months of my life and so much time.

01:30:38.320 | But no, I mean, you just, I don't know.

01:30:41.160 | The only real answer is it's just a conscious effort.

01:30:43.240 | You just have to unemotionally look at the video,

01:30:45.680 | determine the problems, and then move on.

01:30:47.800 | There is no secret, you know what I mean?

01:30:49.600 | It's just, it's that.

01:30:50.960 | And if you really can't bring yourself to do it,

01:30:52.560 | then you're just screwed.

01:30:53.680 | Honestly, maybe you're not meant for this game.

01:30:56.720 | - Okay, so that's part of the development as a creator

01:30:58.760 | is being able to detach yourself.

01:31:00.240 | - For longevity, yes, yeah.

01:31:01.480 | You have to unemotionally be able to look at videos

01:31:04.040 | that flop and figure it out.

01:31:05.840 | 'Cause if not, just getting,

01:31:07.680 | and not every video can be a one out of 10.

01:31:09.200 | And so when a video does bad,

01:31:11.240 | you know, that just stress and depression,

01:31:13.640 | it's just gonna eventually get to you in the long run.

01:31:15.760 | - So you said you've failed in a bunch of videos,

01:31:18.420 | sort of taking them to completion.

01:31:21.720 | So what are some of the biggest fails?

01:31:24.280 | - Yeah, weirdly enough, as we've matured

01:31:26.280 | and we've done this more,

01:31:27.120 | we don't have that problem as much,

01:31:28.480 | especially now that we're getting

01:31:29.320 | into the multimillion dollar budgets per video.

01:31:31.320 | It's like, failure's not really an option anymore.

01:31:34.000 | So I'm a little more particular about what I do,

01:31:36.280 | but back in the day, yeah, like we would do a video

01:31:39.040 | where we spent 24 hours on a deserted island

01:31:41.840 | and we filmed it, did it all,

01:31:43.800 | and I just, I didn't like it after the edit.

01:31:46.360 | So I just grabbed the voice

01:31:47.760 | and we went back to the deserted island

01:31:49.240 | and spent another 24 hours there and refilmed it.

01:31:51.680 | Or--

01:31:53.560 | - Could that have been caught

01:31:55.080 | and prevented at the idea stage?

01:31:56.880 | Like where--

01:31:57.720 | - No, it was a good idea.

01:31:58.640 | It was just poor execution.

01:31:59.680 | To be honest, when we were out there, it was hot.

01:32:01.160 | We were just like, we all at one point

01:32:03.480 | just kind of wanted to die.

01:32:04.440 | It was just miserable.

01:32:05.400 | - So how do you avoid that these days?

01:32:08.000 | - Well, I just went when it was a little cooler,

01:32:09.680 | to be honest.

01:32:10.520 | And then we had, literally, the amount of fun we had

01:32:12.480 | in the video was like 10 times higher.

01:32:14.160 | - Oh, interesting.

01:32:15.120 | So you, like, there's some practical details

01:32:16.920 | that you just learned.

01:32:17.760 | - Yeah, I don't--

01:32:18.600 | - What it takes to do--

01:32:19.440 | - Videos that where it's very hot or it's on water,

01:32:22.160 | 'cause I get super seasick,

01:32:23.640 | there's like a, kind of like 10 things

01:32:25.720 | that if they have these variables, I'm down to do it,

01:32:29.240 | but my fun meter is not as high as normal.

01:32:33.000 | (laughs)

01:32:34.000 | Like, we tried to, anytime we do anything on a boat,

01:32:37.520 | like when we spent 24 hours in a Bermuda Triangle,

01:32:40.240 | or when I tried to spend like, which it didn't get uploaded,

01:32:42.640 | but I tried to spend like 100 hours at sea or whatever,

01:32:44.520 | just like on a raft, it just like,

01:32:46.760 | it makes me want to throw up and I get so seasick,

01:32:48.760 | I can't even see straight.

01:32:50.160 | But there are just some videos that require me

01:32:52.520 | to be on a boat, so I just suck it up.

01:32:55.120 | - So when you spend months in creating a video,

01:32:57.560 | I know this is probably stressful to some creators,

01:33:01.040 | like how much stress, how do you feel

01:33:03.320 | when you have to click publish a video?

01:33:06.360 | - Now, not much.

01:33:07.200 | - So you're able to detach yourself from it?

01:33:08.440 | - Yeah, again, in old me, tons.

01:33:12.160 | I mean, I'd be like scratching and nervous

01:33:14.880 | and like my hands would be sweating,

01:33:16.200 | like to the point where I'm almost about to puke,

01:33:17.960 | I'm like, "I really hope people like this."

01:33:19.760 | But, you know, I don't know,

01:33:21.840 | I think that's just part of maturing it.

01:33:23.160 | There's different, as a content creator,

01:33:24.760 | there's different phases.

01:33:25.680 | And you just like, once you get over the fear

01:33:29.920 | that you're just gonna wake up one day and be irrelevant,

01:33:32.520 | and you just accept that, like you believe in yourself

01:33:34.880 | and you believe in your content

01:33:35.920 | and that you can continue to be relevant,

01:33:38.520 | then you don't, I don't know, you kinda,

01:33:40.720 | it's a little bit easier to detach yourself, I guess.

01:33:43.320 | And that's, it's a much healthier place to be.

01:33:45.240 | You can't do this for 10 years

01:33:46.680 | if every little thing just causes

01:33:48.880 | these huge emotional reactions.

01:33:50.320 | It's like, that's why a lot of creators

01:33:53.160 | go a little mentally insane.

01:33:55.560 | You have to get out of that game

01:33:58.120 | 'cause it really messes with you.

01:33:59.440 | - We've talked about this a little bit,

01:34:00.680 | but how do you define and how do you suggest

01:34:03.680 | others define success on YouTube?

01:34:06.520 | - It's so subjective.

01:34:07.360 | Some people, success is retiring their mom.

01:34:10.560 | For you, success is inspiring people

01:34:13.800 | and educating them and, you know, whatever,

01:34:16.000 | the peak of their curiosity.

01:34:17.400 | For other people, it's just quitting their job.

01:34:20.640 | - So you have to self-reflect

01:34:21.560 | on what your definition of success is.

01:34:23.120 | 'Cause I think a lot of creators kinda

01:34:25.320 | don't really think, don't introspect.

01:34:29.540 | Like, they kinda wanna keep getting more

01:34:31.620 | and more subscribers kinda thing.

01:34:33.620 | - Yeah, but subscribers is just a vanity metric.

01:34:36.420 | You know, it doesn't,

01:34:38.140 | subscribers don't correlate to views.

01:34:40.980 | - Sure, or views, whatever.

01:34:42.180 | - Yeah, I know, but that's more,

01:34:43.580 | that was a direct to you,

01:34:44.420 | that was more direct to people listening

01:34:45.740 | 'cause a lot of people do really care about subscribers

01:34:48.220 | or even followers, like on TikTok.

01:34:49.700 | But if you look, like, your view,

01:34:52.500 | on YouTube, very, very few percent,

01:34:54.820 | if even a percent of your views come from the sub feed.

01:34:57.820 | Right, they're almost all home feed or suggested.

01:34:59.980 | When's the last time you clicked

01:35:00.900 | on your sub feed to watch a video?

01:35:02.740 | - Oh, almost never, yeah.

01:35:03.780 | - Yeah, maybe five years ago.

01:35:04.940 | It used to be a thing, it's not anymore.

01:35:06.200 | No one does.

01:35:07.500 | And it's getting harder and harder to find.

01:35:09.340 | - I subscribe to way too many channels, I think.

01:35:11.180 | - Yeah, that's what everyone does.

01:35:12.700 | And you subscribe to 10 channels, they're great,

01:35:14.620 | but two years later, your taste evolves

01:35:16.060 | and it's a mess.

01:35:17.260 | And so, subscribers don't really matter.

01:35:21.140 | Followers on TikTok don't really matter.

01:35:24.220 | So anyways, they really are the definition

01:35:27.700 | of a vanity metric.

01:35:28.660 | - And, but what about views?

01:35:30.420 | - They do, obviously, 'cause if people are showing up

01:35:32.340 | time and time again, that's what matters.

01:35:34.180 | - Okay, so that's a good thing to define a success.

01:35:38.820 | I just feel like that too can be a problem.

01:35:43.260 | 'Cause I would say, you know, if I wanted to be successful,

01:35:48.260 | like as a young creator, I might start copying Mr. Beast

01:35:52.060 | or something like that, right?

01:35:53.100 | - Yeah.

01:35:53.940 | - You start trying to take shortcuts

01:35:55.540 | as opposed to find your own unique voice, right?

01:35:59.540 | So like chasing views is a problem too, it feels like.

01:36:03.500 | Or no, as long as you detach yourself from them.

01:36:06.500 | - I mean, if you're, sounds about right,

01:36:09.100 | but if you're lazy, yeah, and you just wanna copy

01:36:11.620 | someone else and not experiment and find your own way.

01:36:14.020 | But I mean, you can't make that excuse for them.

01:36:16.660 | If someone just isn't coming up with the original stuff

01:36:19.420 | and putting in the effort, you can't just say,

01:36:20.620 | oh, it's 'cause they're chasing views,

01:36:22.300 | we need some different metric for them to chase.

01:36:23.900 | No, they just need to find their own way.

01:36:25.860 | - I mean, it just feels like unique type of content

01:36:28.740 | will often lead to sacrifice in the number of views

01:36:31.620 | in the short term.

01:36:33.300 | - By the long term, you win.

01:36:34.700 | - Okay.

01:36:36.940 | - Or if you do win, you win more,

01:36:38.700 | I guess would be a better way of putting it.

01:36:41.220 | - Do you think you will IPO Mr. Beast Burger

01:36:44.100 | or Feastables in the next five, 10 years?

01:36:46.540 | - Beast Burger or Feastables?

01:36:47.740 | No, I kinda think, actually, you know what?

01:36:51.300 | I just realized, this is our first time talking

01:36:53.540 | about those, we're like an hour and a half in,

01:36:55.820 | that's so funny.

01:36:56.660 | - We started talking about what?

01:36:58.220 | - My retention brain kicked in.

01:37:00.820 | (both laughing)

01:37:03.540 | - I wonder if you have retention brain for life itself.

01:37:06.620 | - Oh, I do, every time I'm talking to someone,

01:37:08.140 | I'm like, okay, I'm wondering--

01:37:10.140 | - What about loved ones?

01:37:11.420 | Spending time with loved ones, thinking we could be doing

01:37:15.020 | something much better right now.

01:37:16.540 | - Yes, no, that is a serious problem.

01:37:18.800 | So we'll pause the Beast Burger question, yes.

01:37:23.020 | But that's why my current girlfriend,

01:37:25.740 | which I was telling you before when we were talking

01:37:27.340 | about this, is she has a genuine love for learning.

01:37:30.500 | And that's something I have, I always feel like I need

01:37:32.900 | to be learning something to justify the time I'm spending.

01:37:35.540 | And so that's why it's such a nice trait,

01:37:38.180 | because I feel like that time is being used optimally,

01:37:41.340 | because whether we're watching a documentary

01:37:43.220 | or we're going and taking an IQ test or reading

01:37:46.660 | about whatever, just why modern art is a thing,

01:37:49.180 | I don't know, whatever weird thing we decide to do,

01:37:51.420 | I'm always learning and improving, so it justifies the time.

01:37:54.420 | - So to maximize retention in your relationship,

01:37:56.900 | you want to spend that time learning as much as possible.

01:38:00.300 | - Yeah, which conveniently, I don't have to force, right?

01:38:04.100 | Or I want to be recharging, so when I do work,

01:38:07.140 | I can hit the ground harder, and luckily,

01:38:09.780 | we're into a lot of the same things,

01:38:11.140 | which happen to be learning, and sometimes it's not learning,

01:38:13.380 | like maybe watching an anime or something like that.

01:38:16.300 | But I'm a big believer in you're either,

01:38:18.820 | if you, well, if your goal is to be

01:38:21.300 | like a super successful entrepreneur,

01:38:23.180 | you need to either be working,

01:38:24.740 | or you need to be doing something that decompresses

01:38:27.100 | and recharges you so you can work again,

01:38:28.620 | if your goal is to be like a really kick-ass entrepreneur.

01:38:31.740 | Obviously, we're boiling this down to a very basic thing.

01:38:34.620 | And so the things you're doing, your downtime,

01:38:38.420 | when you're not working, if it doesn't recharge you,

01:38:40.180 | you're screwed, you're just a ticking time bomb

01:38:42.660 | waiting to implode.

01:38:43.940 | And so you got to heavily recharge.

01:38:47.660 | So like watching, for me, anime or whatever it is,

01:38:51.380 | playing a board game, like that is actually

01:38:54.060 | kind of crucial to my success,

01:38:55.460 | which takes a lot of maturing to come to that conclusion,

01:38:58.980 | because I used to be the kind of guy

01:39:00.300 | that wanted to work every hour of the day,

01:39:02.340 | and I would try to train myself to not need that stuff.

01:39:05.580 | And I almost resented like that,

01:39:09.060 | I have to do these kinds of things,

01:39:10.940 | and it would piss me off 'cause it's not optimal,

01:39:12.660 | and I just really want to make content

01:39:14.460 | and entertain people.

01:39:15.780 | But as someone who's gone down that road,

01:39:18.420 | and you just work every day for two, three months straight,

01:39:21.620 | and every hour of the day,

01:39:22.980 | and then you're just a bomb waiting to explode

01:39:25.420 | and lose your mind.

01:39:26.580 | And the only real sustainable thing

01:39:28.500 | is to just like give yourself time to recharge

01:39:31.180 | in between working.

01:39:32.500 | - So there's a kind of balance you have to find.

01:39:34.940 | - You have to, and I hate it more than anyone else.

01:39:38.260 | - You hate not working.

01:39:40.860 | - Yeah, it's 'cause it's just not optimal for time.

01:39:43.460 | Like it's, as a human, I do need to occasionally

01:39:47.860 | watch a mindless show and play a board game.

01:39:51.100 | And it took me a very long time

01:39:52.500 | to like come to peace with that and not,

01:39:55.460 | I would have like borderline panic attacks when I do it,

01:39:58.140 | 'cause I'm like, I just, what am I doing right now?

01:40:00.260 | Why am I doing this?

01:40:01.180 | I should be, you know, like,

01:40:03.220 | what if one day I have to lay off an employee

01:40:05.060 | because we're not doing so well?

01:40:06.340 | Like, how could I justify watching this show

01:40:08.940 | or whatever I'm doing right now?

01:40:10.020 | You know, it's like, there's a lot of things like that

01:40:12.060 | that go on in your head, but it's necessary.

01:40:14.340 | - Before we return to Mr. Beast Burger,

01:40:16.980 | well, what is like, since we're on the topic,

01:40:21.260 | what is a perfect day in the life,

01:40:23.380 | perfectly productive day in the life

01:40:24.700 | of Mr. Beast look like?

01:40:26.620 | - Oh boy, well, I mean.

01:40:28.220 | - Or like a standard.

01:40:29.060 | - I mean, the perfectly productive day

01:40:30.300 | is we film a main channel video.

01:40:32.140 | 'Cause those get 100 million a pop.

01:40:33.900 | I mean, it doesn't really get any better than that.

01:40:36.540 | - What about like the average day

01:40:37.940 | when you're not on the set?

01:40:39.620 | - Yeah.

01:40:40.460 | - And you're like, pull it.

01:40:41.300 | 'Cause you're running a lot of things, right?

01:40:42.940 | - Yeah, so right now we have our snack brand Feastables,

01:40:45.660 | we have a restaurant chain Beast Burger,

01:40:47.340 | and then we basically,

01:40:49.100 | which we haven't even really launched any products yet,

01:40:51.380 | but we have the data company that I was showing you

01:40:53.900 | where we're gonna roll out some tools for creators.

01:40:56.020 | And then we have the React channel,

01:40:57.660 | the gaming channel, the main channel,

01:40:58.780 | and then we have my charity, which also has a channel.

01:41:02.060 | And so kind of how I've structured my life right now

01:41:05.900 | is whenever I have free time, we just kind of go,

01:41:09.220 | "Hey guys, Jimmy's got an hour from 2 p.m. to 3 p.m."

01:41:13.620 | And everyone's just like, "I need this, I need this."

01:41:15.940 | And this channel's like, "I need this thing filmed."

01:41:17.500 | Or whatever, the guy who runs my TikTok's like,

01:41:19.900 | "I need this TikTok filmed."

01:41:21.020 | Or Beast Burger's like, "I need this menu item approved.

01:41:24.100 | Do we need to talk about this marketing thing?"

01:41:25.180 | And then we kind of just look at what everyone needs

01:41:27.300 | and we're like, "That one looks like the most important,

01:41:29.300 | we'll do that."

01:41:30.140 | And then, so it's just kind of like,

01:41:32.980 | if I just did that for every company in a day,

01:41:35.020 | then that's optimal.

01:41:36.300 | So I just kind of, like an optimal day for me

01:41:38.180 | would be going down to eight companies

01:41:39.540 | and just whatever their two to three biggest pain points

01:41:42.540 | or things they need from me, and just doing those.

01:41:44.460 | - Based on priority and then trying to keep it

01:41:47.020 | as short as possible to just the things

01:41:49.060 | that you're needed on.

01:41:49.900 | - It doesn't get more optimal than that.

01:41:51.340 | If I clear the bottlenecks, or some bottlenecks

01:41:53.380 | for all my companies, then it's, yeah, that's a perfect day.

01:41:57.820 | - Yeah, I mean, even just me, 'cause you're like,

01:42:00.140 | you're showing me around and you're being a great

01:42:02.500 | and gracious host, but on top of that,

01:42:04.420 | you're just doing all these meetings.

01:42:05.580 | You basically--

01:42:06.580 | - I felt bad at some points.

01:42:07.700 | I was like, oh, I just tricked him

01:42:09.220 | into going to meetings with me.

01:42:10.540 | He's like my little meeting buddy.

01:42:11.740 | - Yeah, I mean, it was fun.

01:42:13.860 | It was fun to see how effectively you've delegated,

01:42:18.860 | you basically trust the team to do a really good job

01:42:21.780 | on the various things, and there's just a strong team

01:42:24.540 | that's able to carry the five on all the different tasks.

01:42:28.620 | From the brainstorming and the main channel

01:42:30.380 | to the reacts and so on.

01:42:31.980 | Yeah, it's really interesting.

01:42:33.020 | I mean, it's really interesting what it takes

01:42:34.860 | to build a team like that, 'cause you very quickly

01:42:37.260 | build a very large team that's able to scale.

01:42:40.260 | - Which is very scary, 'cause it's my first,

01:42:42.500 | I'm 24, and I think I was telling you this earlier.

01:42:47.140 | It's funny, 'cause six years ago,

01:42:48.140 | I had to raise my hand to go use the bathroom,

01:42:49.860 | and now I'm in charge of hundreds of people

01:42:51.900 | and entertain hundreds of millions of people.

01:42:54.140 | And so it is crazy just how quick it comes up.

01:42:56.860 | And I wish I was a little bit older

01:43:00.620 | so I could have ran a couple of companies

01:43:02.900 | and failed a few companies in the past

01:43:04.500 | and learned from those and applied those here.

01:43:06.380 | 'Cause I know for a fact, when I'm 34, I'm 24 now,

01:43:09.140 | when I'm 34, I'll know so much more

01:43:11.580 | about running a business and scaling and hiring

01:43:13.500 | and how to lead people and better effectively communicate

01:43:15.860 | and all these different skill sets

01:43:17.100 | that will make me a better leader,

01:43:18.580 | that that's the only thing that sucks,

01:43:21.260 | is I just don't have those,

01:43:22.900 | 'cause I just haven't been through the lessons.

01:43:24.820 | And I just have such a lucrative thing

01:43:27.380 | on my plate right now, and it just sucks

01:43:29.060 | that I have to learn the lessons with the lucrative thing.

01:43:30.940 | You know what I mean?

01:43:31.780 | - Yeah, 'cause you already have so much influence,

01:43:34.620 | so much impact, but you have effectively scaled.

01:43:37.780 | What lessons do you draw from that,

01:43:39.660 | how to effectively scale as a 24-year-old?

01:43:42.420 | Like you-- - Yeah, that's something

01:43:43.540 | I feel like I actually could give a lot of value to

01:43:45.740 | to young people who are doing it.

01:43:47.300 | Like older people who've built five companies

01:43:49.180 | or whatever they do.

01:43:50.320 | I probably couldn't, they're gonna be like,

01:43:52.900 | oh, this is so obvious.

01:43:53.740 | But for younger first-time business owners,

01:43:58.740 | you gotta just experiment, to be honest.

01:44:01.780 | And for us, it's just a new space.

01:44:04.460 | No one had really ever scaled up a 100-person team

01:44:07.060 | to make content on YouTube.

01:44:09.060 | So there wasn't no, I spent all this time,

01:44:11.540 | like I hired one person from Disney at one point

01:44:14.860 | to come in and help.

01:44:16.060 | And obviously that was a dumb idea looking back on it.

01:44:18.500 | But I thought, oh, they make great stuff

01:44:20.940 | people wanna watch, and they come over here

01:44:22.660 | and help me build a team.

01:44:23.980 | And they build it more the traditional way

01:44:26.300 | and not like how it should be online.

01:44:27.820 | And so then it's like, okay,

01:44:30.020 | and now I'm not trying to trash people.

01:44:31.740 | Like they all tried their best.

01:44:33.020 | But then I hired this one person

01:44:34.580 | who does this different type of media

01:44:37.700 | and runs a 100-person team.

01:44:39.020 | And then you come in here and they try to build it that way.

01:44:41.500 | They don't really listen to you or value

01:44:42.940 | or see the difference.

01:44:44.060 | And I tried basically for building this company

01:44:47.820 | with like four or five different people

01:44:49.140 | who worked in different veins of media.

01:44:52.140 | And every single time, it's just like,

01:44:55.180 | they just don't get it.

01:44:56.020 | And they don't understand my world.

01:44:58.100 | And the eventual solution was just like

01:45:00.540 | to roll up my sleeves and do it myself.

01:45:02.140 | You know, with like James or him, man,

01:45:04.060 | and just like, no one's ever done this.

01:45:06.340 | And like, no one's gonna just give us a golden carrot

01:45:08.420 | and tell us how to build this company.

01:45:09.500 | We gotta figure it the fuck out ourselves.

01:45:10.980 | - And you have to kind of build up people from scratch then.

01:45:13.060 | - Yeah, exactly.

01:45:13.900 | All the stuff I was talking about earlier

01:45:15.260 | and all the lessons I learned along the way.

01:45:17.900 | And so for me, that was a big part of like,

01:45:20.460 | stop trying to have someone build this company for me

01:45:24.180 | and just do it myself.

01:45:25.460 | 'Cause it's scary.

01:45:26.300 | Like I spent my whole life studying YouTube videos

01:45:27.900 | and virality, not business building, but fuck it.

01:45:30.620 | I was like, I guess we just gotta do it ourselves then.

01:45:33.700 | And that's where things really start to click.

01:45:35.180 | And we got the exponential growth.

01:45:36.580 | We started getting the right people

01:45:37.620 | and training them the right way.

01:45:38.860 | And, you know, just throwing conventional stuff

01:45:41.140 | out the door and focusing on what's actually practical

01:45:43.620 | for YouTube, which is just completely different

01:45:46.460 | than traditional media.

01:45:48.740 | - So you train people and then those people train people

01:45:51.700 | and then so on.

01:45:52.780 | - Yeah, I mean, it's just even like, you know,

01:45:54.820 | how you do the lighting on sets or like how you do the audio

01:45:58.220 | or, you know, not writing scripts.

01:46:01.100 | So, you know, we're just not as efficient with our filming.

01:46:03.820 | Like sometimes I have to have 30 cameras running.

01:46:06.220 | Why? Because it's not scripted.

01:46:07.460 | I don't know what Chris is gonna do when we start filming.

01:46:10.580 | He might run over there, but guess what?

01:46:12.500 | We gotta have it planned 'cause there's only one shot.

01:46:14.340 | I can't, you know, tell him not to do that.

01:46:16.100 | - Yeah, that's the shooting,

01:46:17.260 | but then there's also the editing.

01:46:18.700 | - Yeah, and then the editing as well

01:46:19.860 | and not having guardrails and kind of, you know,

01:46:23.220 | at the end of the day, it's whatever I want.

01:46:24.740 | The video, their job is to make a video

01:46:26.900 | that they think I'll like because it's my channel,

01:46:28.620 | but, you know, you can achieve that kind of however.

01:46:31.440 | And so it's just, everything's just different.

01:46:33.940 | You know, it's much more, I guess,

01:46:35.540 | like a startup as opposed to...

01:46:37.820 | - Are you often surprised like with the result?

01:46:40.100 | Like you think a certain, like we watched a video today

01:46:43.660 | that was really nice.

01:46:44.500 | That was different than you would have potentially edited.

01:46:47.300 | - Yeah.

01:46:48.140 | - Are you sometimes surprised by like a decision

01:46:50.260 | that it makes?

01:46:51.080 | It's like, okay, that's not the way I would have done it,

01:46:53.260 | but it's actually, this is a cool idea.

01:46:55.140 | - Yeah, of course.

01:46:55.980 | Yeah, the thing, my biggest fear is I don't ever want

01:46:59.220 | to get trapped in like a bubble of, you know,

01:47:01.900 | 'cause we are getting a hundred million views a video

01:47:03.660 | on the main channel, like,

01:47:04.980 | but I don't want to get in this feedback loop of just,

01:47:07.780 | my ideas are great or, or I get that feedback loop,

01:47:10.580 | but stop learning and improving.

01:47:12.340 | 'Cause it is easy sometimes to be like,

01:47:15.020 | what we're doing is working.

01:47:15.940 | We need to just keep doing it.

01:47:17.100 | I want to keep learning and trying new things.

01:47:19.500 | And I guess one way I'd put it is like,

01:47:22.460 | you don't, when you're on a come up

01:47:25.580 | or you're growing, you don't want to test new things

01:47:29.140 | once you start to plateau or have a downtrend,

01:47:32.500 | because if you're like, you know,

01:47:34.260 | you're skyrocketing, right?

01:47:35.940 | You're up, up, up, and then you level off

01:47:37.620 | and you start to go down and you're like,

01:47:38.900 | oh, this isn't working anymore.

01:47:39.980 | Let's start experimenting.

01:47:41.060 | Well, if you have a bad experiment,

01:47:42.700 | now you're in like a tailspin, you're nosediving.

01:47:45.140 | And you have one more bad experiment,

01:47:46.380 | you're like, screwed, kind of, I'm oversimplifying.

01:47:48.740 | You want to test things while you're still growing

01:47:51.140 | to keep the growing from happening.

01:47:53.180 | Because once you like have, you know,

01:47:55.500 | again, very oversimplifying that like,

01:47:57.380 | you know, kind of level off,

01:47:58.940 | you do a couple of tests that go wrong.

01:48:00.620 | In my view, you're like, screwed,

01:48:01.860 | you know what I mean?

01:48:02.700 | You're already out the door.

01:48:03.540 | Now you're just confirming that you're out the door

01:48:04.900 | and online entertainment.

01:48:06.220 | So that's kind of how I see it.

01:48:08.180 | So I think it's very imperative

01:48:09.220 | that you're constantly always experimenting

01:48:10.740 | and trying things, even if you're getting crazy,

01:48:12.980 | unheard of growth.

01:48:14.620 | - And so that, outside of the thing

01:48:17.580 | that brought you to the dance,

01:48:18.940 | you just dived right into Mr. Beast Burger and Feastables.

01:48:23.460 | This is a whole nother industry.

01:48:25.620 | Like, what was that like?

01:48:26.700 | - Well, so Beast Burger, we kind of,

01:48:29.060 | it was supposed to be like just a pop-up.

01:48:32.180 | Like we just partnered with someone

01:48:33.620 | who had 300 restaurants.

01:48:34.580 | And we were just like, you know,

01:48:36.300 | let's just sell Beast Burgers for a day or two.

01:48:39.980 | Let's see what happens.

01:48:41.020 | We didn't really think it would be as big as it was.

01:48:43.900 | But those first, like that first day,

01:48:45.940 | you know, we do six figures in sales

01:48:47.940 | and they all sell out and they're running to local Walmarts.

01:48:50.260 | They can't keep up with the demand.

01:48:51.780 | And it's like, okay, well,

01:48:53.100 | maybe let's just leave it open a week, whatever.

01:48:56.500 | And we're just doing crazy revenue.

01:48:58.780 | And it's like, okay, well, let's add some more restaurants

01:49:01.020 | and let's just leave them open for a month.

01:49:02.740 | And we're just still doing six figures a day.

01:49:04.460 | And it kind of just went from this thing that was,

01:49:07.540 | I don't know, it wasn't really,

01:49:09.100 | I didn't really plan on running a restaurant chain,

01:49:11.340 | but here I am.

01:49:12.580 | - But didn't that, in some sense,

01:49:14.540 | also open your mind to something like Feastables?

01:49:17.060 | - Feastables is something I've always wanted to do.

01:49:18.700 | 'Cause I think just in general,

01:49:21.460 | American snacks are just full of so much

01:49:24.260 | horrible ingredients, to be honest.

01:49:26.780 | And they're not, I don't know.

01:49:28.220 | I feel like there also just hasn't been any innovation

01:49:30.460 | in American snacks in quite a while.

01:49:32.400 | And so that's just something

01:49:34.260 | I've always been pretty passionate about.

01:49:35.620 | The thing, we built that from scratch.

01:49:37.140 | So we hired the CEO and built a team around them.

01:49:39.820 | And we spent probably over two and a half years

01:49:42.900 | before we even launched,

01:49:43.740 | just like building the right team,

01:49:45.300 | figuring things out and making sure

01:49:46.780 | it was actually ran the way I wanted,

01:49:48.620 | which Feastables has just been crushing.

01:49:51.860 | It's very interesting.

01:49:54.420 | This is something I've never talked about publicly,

01:49:56.020 | but having products in retail,

01:49:58.180 | it's like before Feastables,

01:49:59.740 | everything I had done was online.

01:50:01.460 | So if you wanted to, you know,

01:50:03.420 | anything from the "Peace" brand,

01:50:05.340 | you'd have to buy it online and ship it to you.

01:50:07.340 | But Feastables, now that, you know,

01:50:09.620 | 'cause our first product, chocolate bars,

01:50:11.740 | we started putting that in retail locations.

01:50:14.020 | So like, for example, Walmart,

01:50:15.700 | it's crazy.

01:50:17.500 | Like, it's just, it doesn't make sense how,

01:50:19.940 | if you're, which I guess it does for,

01:50:22.620 | 'cause we get 100 million views a video.

01:50:23.780 | So a lot of people know us.

01:50:24.700 | If I go stand in Walmart,

01:50:25.940 | those people recognize me and ask for photos.

01:50:27.940 | Like if I stood there long enough,

01:50:28.940 | I could take 150 photos today in Walmart,

01:50:31.060 | or 200, whatever it is.

01:50:32.380 | So obviously it makes sense those people go buy Feastables.

01:50:34.860 | But then you just multiply that by every Walmart in America

01:50:37.820 | and it just gets so crazy.

01:50:39.620 | And I didn't think we'd be doing the kind of revenue we are.

01:50:42.340 | And we're about to launch in some other,

01:50:44.980 | I don't know if I'm allowed to say it, so whatever,

01:50:46.540 | but other big retail locations and convenience stores.

01:50:50.140 | And like by the end of next year,

01:50:51.700 | we could be in like 40, 50,000 locations.

01:50:54.740 | And the numbers just don't make sense.

01:50:57.460 | - What are some interesting challenges

01:50:58.660 | about scaling there that surprised you?

01:51:00.900 | - The biggest problem, which I didn't think would be,

01:51:02.780 | was just keeping the shelves in Walmart stock,

01:51:05.860 | to be honest.

01:51:06.700 | - So that supply, the supply chain.

01:51:08.780 | - It was brutal.

01:51:09.620 | Well, even then sometimes like, you know,

01:51:10.940 | you get them the stuff and they're like,

01:51:13.060 | it takes them like a day or two to put it out.

01:51:14.580 | In that specific location.

01:51:16.420 | And I had to stop promoting it

01:51:19.740 | because every time I'd mention it,

01:51:21.180 | like 40% of people would just be like, it's not there.

01:51:24.300 | It's not in Walmart or I can't buy it.

01:51:26.100 | And so there was like a three-ish month period

01:51:30.340 | where I just didn't promote Feastables

01:51:32.540 | 'cause I was scared that someone would go buy it

01:51:34.740 | and it's just not there.

01:51:35.660 | And so like, it took us a very long time

01:51:37.540 | to catch up to the demand.

01:51:39.140 | And also, it's not like we have unlimited money.

01:51:41.780 | So, but now we're relatively caught up and keeping up,

01:51:46.260 | but it's gonna be interesting

01:51:47.140 | 'cause now this year in 2023,

01:51:49.100 | we're gonna basically, you know,

01:51:52.380 | 10X the amount of locations we're in.

01:51:54.340 | So we're, and we're gonna try to launch new products.

01:51:56.820 | So we're in for an interesting ride, but yeah,

01:52:01.300 | I just hate, I hate when I tell people, you know,

01:52:04.340 | like, hey, go try this product.

01:52:05.500 | And then they go in their local Walmart

01:52:07.060 | and eventually other places and it's not there.

01:52:08.540 | It's just so brutal, you know,

01:52:10.340 | but they made that whole journey out there

01:52:11.780 | and they couldn't get it.

01:52:12.620 | And so that was really it.

01:52:14.380 | Besides that, no, it's been doing way better

01:52:18.500 | than I ever thought.

01:52:19.500 | - You've talked to a couple of places

01:52:22.300 | about maybe doing mobile games

01:52:24.860 | or computer games in the future.

01:52:26.860 | Is that something you're still considering?

01:52:28.620 | - Yes, because, you know,

01:52:31.500 | do you normally talk with people

01:52:32.620 | as much as we talked beforehand?

01:52:34.460 | Is that?

01:52:35.300 | - No, no, that was the problem.

01:52:37.420 | We spent all day today talking about stuff.

01:52:40.260 | In my head, everything you asked me

01:52:41.580 | is stuff we already talked about.

01:52:43.020 | - Not really.

01:52:43.860 | - Well, no, no, not everything.

01:52:44.780 | I take it back, but sorry.

01:52:45.780 | The last two questions, yes.

01:52:47.420 | And so it's just funny 'cause--

01:52:49.980 | - What?

01:52:50.820 | No, I tried, so good.

01:52:51.780 | There's a different style of asking those questions

01:52:54.100 | 'cause I on purpose didn't dig further with you.

01:52:57.380 | - I could tell, yeah.

01:52:58.820 | I could tell you--

01:52:59.660 | - Okay, this is, by the way, okay, all right.

01:53:02.380 | This is the first time I've ever talked to somebody

01:53:07.300 | as much as I did with you beforehand.

01:53:10.700 | - Yeah.

01:53:11.940 | - On the same day.

01:53:13.140 | - I know.

01:53:14.060 | Not even the same day.

01:53:14.900 | - We spent all day together.

01:53:15.740 | And I only slept one hour.

01:53:17.220 | - Yeah, literally, it's funny.

01:53:20.700 | - This is a hilarious and awesome social experiment.

01:53:23.780 | - I picked him up from his hotel

01:53:25.180 | and I just harassed him all day to hang out with me.

01:53:28.100 | And then here we are now.

01:53:29.580 | - I love it.

01:53:30.420 | I was secretly recording the whole time,

01:53:32.580 | just so you know, I'm just kidding.

01:53:34.260 | Anyway, so what was the question?

01:53:35.380 | The mobile game.

01:53:36.860 | - Yeah, so the interesting thing is

01:53:39.060 | with Beast Burger and Feastables

01:53:40.780 | that there's physical goods

01:53:43.580 | as opposed to making mobile games or PC game,

01:53:46.380 | whichever one we end up doing, which is software.

01:53:48.820 | And I actually have a giant international audience.

01:53:51.980 | Like most of my audience is obviously outside of America.

01:53:55.540 | And so the problem we're running into

01:53:57.100 | is it just takes time to build up the supply chain

01:53:58.980 | and get Feastables in Southeast Asia,

01:54:01.340 | get Feastables in India, get Feastables in Brazil

01:54:03.860 | and Mexico and all these other places

01:54:05.420 | where we have giant pockets of our audience.

01:54:07.860 | And same thing with Beast Burger.

01:54:08.940 | It's just, it's gonna take probably years

01:54:11.260 | unless we partner with someone

01:54:12.460 | who already has the distribution, which we're figuring out.

01:54:13.980 | But the beauty of software is I can make a hypothetical game

01:54:18.420 | or whatever we end up doing

01:54:19.580 | and all my fans can use it tomorrow, the day I mention it.

01:54:24.580 | And so if I promote something in a video

01:54:27.460 | to a hundred million people and it's like a,

01:54:29.740 | basically like a game, they can all download it.

01:54:32.020 | So, but if I promote a Feastables bar,

01:54:36.300 | right now it's only in America

01:54:37.540 | 'cause we're struggling just to keep up

01:54:38.900 | with the American demand.

01:54:39.740 | We haven't even gotten the chance to go outside of America.

01:54:41.500 | So I alienate a majority of my audience

01:54:44.740 | and it feels sort of shitty to just mention something

01:54:48.140 | that most of them can't buy.

01:54:49.320 | But on the flip side, you can't just spawn

01:54:51.740 | this crazy infrastructure and just have tens of millions

01:54:55.320 | of bars and all your products in every single store

01:54:57.780 | across the world before you promote it.

01:54:58.940 | So you can't put the egg before the chicken.

01:55:00.740 | And so it's like, that's what I'm excited about.

01:55:04.540 | I wanna get into less physical stuff

01:55:06.860 | and more stuff that everyone in my audience

01:55:08.580 | can actually use.

01:55:09.420 | This is the thought process.

01:55:10.260 | - Especially if there's a social element to the gaming too.

01:55:12.380 | 'Cause it's not unlike Feastables,

01:55:13.780 | like that's a product you consume.

01:55:15.300 | - You missed it.

01:55:16.140 | When you're setting up for this, we were doing some,

01:55:18.940 | basically just laying out everything

01:55:21.180 | that we're planning for.

01:55:22.140 | So we're at the phase where we wanna start hiring the team

01:55:24.440 | to build it and we're kind of just laying out the game.

01:55:26.700 | And I was actually really curious to get your thoughts,

01:55:28.740 | but I can't say it.

01:55:29.700 | 'Cause whatever I say, someone's just gonna take it

01:55:32.100 | and run with it.

01:55:32.940 | But I have a pretty good idea.

01:55:34.140 | - About the kind of games you're thinking about?

01:55:35.980 | Yeah, I mean, I can imagine.

01:55:37.100 | We also talked a little bit about it.

01:55:38.740 | It's super awesome.

01:55:39.580 | - So much good ones.

01:55:40.420 | - I did.

01:55:41.240 | - So much good talks.

01:55:42.080 | I like the juicy talks to have on here.

01:55:43.180 | She's like, I gotta go set up.

01:55:44.660 | - Well, I already heard a lot of awesome stuff.

01:55:47.140 | I mean, but that is a different kind of team

01:55:49.620 | you would need to hire.

01:55:50.820 | - Yeah.

01:55:51.660 | - Is that a little nerve wracking,

01:55:53.780 | like going into a new field and trying to--

01:55:57.060 | - A little bit, but then I remind myself,

01:55:58.540 | like Steve Jobs didn't know how to code, right?

01:56:00.940 | And he just knew what a good product was.

01:56:03.540 | And I feel like as someone who wasted so much of his life

01:56:05.940 | playing video games, I have a good sense of it.

01:56:07.860 | And that might be ignorance.

01:56:08.820 | - Well, that's really important, right?

01:56:10.060 | It's not about coding,

01:56:11.060 | it's about what makes for a good game.

01:56:12.340 | - Exactly.

01:56:13.180 | And again, that might genuinely be ignorance.

01:56:14.700 | And maybe I end up getting bit in the butt

01:56:16.980 | because of what I'm saying now.

01:56:18.180 | But I think just like with YouTube,

01:56:21.100 | I just wanna obsess over making a great product

01:56:24.140 | and things that I think my audience will love.

01:56:25.980 | And I think as long as I keep that as my North Star,

01:56:27.780 | it'll do well.

01:56:28.620 | - What does the path to being worth 100 billion look like?

01:56:33.220 | - What does the path to being worth 100 billion look like?

01:56:35.540 | I don't know.

01:56:36.380 | - Okay, let me just like pause here.

01:56:37.980 | 24 and there's so much awesome scaling,

01:56:41.020 | so many great ideas.

01:56:42.780 | Do you think about different trajectories?

01:56:45.420 | - Yeah.

01:56:46.420 | - What those possible trajectories might look like?

01:56:49.300 | - Yeah, I mean, if the goal was

01:56:50.780 | to just be worth $100 billion, yes.

01:56:53.460 | I mean, my goal, I'm a broken record,

01:56:56.580 | is to make the best video possible

01:56:57.700 | 'cause I know whatever else I want will come, obviously.

01:57:00.540 | - So the video is the foundation.

01:57:02.380 | - Yeah, exactly.

01:57:03.220 | So the path to $100 billion is keep getting

01:57:05.740 | 100 million views a video, you know what I mean?

01:57:08.260 | - Or more.

01:57:09.100 | - Yeah, or more, exactly, if we can keep growing.

01:57:10.860 | But if we can keep Feasible's growing, right?

01:57:15.420 | And we eventually expand international

01:57:17.260 | and one day we're in 100,000 retail locations

01:57:19.820 | and we're selling the same amount of SKUs,

01:57:21.860 | or units per SKUs like we're currently doing,

01:57:24.660 | I mean, that would crush.

01:57:25.860 | And then obviously, ideally one day

01:57:27.900 | we open up hundreds of Beast Burgers,

01:57:29.540 | we get it where we turn out, you know,

01:57:31.180 | like Supercell, a couple hit games.

01:57:32.860 | I don't wanna make dozens or hundreds of games.

01:57:34.940 | I just wanna make games that are just great.

01:57:37.260 | And, you know, we rarely drop 'em

01:57:38.460 | but we do, they're bangers.

01:57:40.740 | And just, you know, whatever other stuff we end up doing,

01:57:43.300 | all that combined, I mean, it's just interesting

01:57:45.860 | because like what's a show that's pulled

01:57:48.500 | 100 million views per episode, basically?

01:57:50.860 | - Like we're doing.

01:57:52.540 | Like, you know what I mean?

01:57:53.540 | Like the Super Bowl gets praised

01:57:54.660 | 'cause they get 100 million viewers

01:57:55.780 | but I can't think of a show, maybe in reruns or something.

01:57:59.540 | - But it's also a show that has a singular kind of figure

01:58:04.540 | that you can now use as a--

01:58:06.220 | - Like I don't have a network tell me what to do.

01:58:07.940 | I don't have anyone, like I can do whatever I want.

01:58:09.900 | So it's a very interesting position

01:58:11.940 | 'cause I put out content and 100 million people show up.

01:58:14.900 | And then I also have a gaming channel,

01:58:16.100 | I put out content and 15 million people show up.

01:58:17.740 | And I have a reaction channel, I put out content

01:58:18.980 | and 10 million people show up.

01:58:20.180 | I have a TikTok and I put out content

01:58:21.620 | and on average 20 million people show up.

01:58:23.620 | So as long as I can keep that going

01:58:26.980 | and then we build these businesses,

01:58:28.300 | it's like, it's honestly pretty scary

01:58:30.940 | to see what will happen over the years

01:58:33.540 | because Feastible's launched last year, 2022.

01:58:36.860 | So it's a relatively new thing.

01:58:38.220 | And Beast Burger, we just started scaling up

01:58:39.660 | the physical side and we haven't obviously

01:58:40.940 | even launched any mobile games yet.

01:58:42.220 | So I think I'm at the antithesis of it.

01:58:44.500 | I don't see a world where my YouTube channels are relevant

01:58:46.900 | in the next couple of years.

01:58:47.940 | I just, this is what I live for.

01:58:49.460 | And so if I can keep that going

01:58:50.980 | and then really start to expand these businesses

01:58:53.060 | that leverage off of it, then yeah, I mean,

01:58:56.260 | hopefully there's a day when I can give away

01:58:57.940 | a billion dollars in a video, honestly.

01:58:59.900 | - Yeah, that would be one hell of a video.

01:59:03.700 | Let me ask you the ridiculous question.

01:59:05.500 | Since you went from being broke to being rich,

01:59:09.460 | although you keep spending all your money,

01:59:12.480 | does money buy happiness?

01:59:16.820 | How has money changed sort of your,

01:59:19.420 | your contentment, your happiness in life?

01:59:22.980 | - Does money buy happiness?

01:59:24.340 | No, not, I mean, to a point, yes.

01:59:28.580 | Once you can take care of your health,

01:59:30.880 | you can take care of like any immediate dangers

01:59:33.540 | and you can take care of your family relatively.

01:59:36.060 | No, it doesn't.

01:59:37.180 | But those things do.

01:59:38.020 | Like when I first came into money,

01:59:39.340 | one of the first things I did was retire my mom.

01:59:41.380 | And like that brought me tons of happiness.

01:59:42.860 | You know what I mean?

01:59:43.700 | And like, you know, if my brother had a medical emergency

01:59:46.380 | and we couldn't afford it and I made money to afford it,

01:59:48.660 | that'd bring tons of happiness, you know?

01:59:50.060 | So once you take care of those basic necessities,

01:59:51.820 | so we'll say make over hypothetically a million dollars,

01:59:54.240 | no, it really doesn't.

01:59:55.740 | Like adding an extra zero,

01:59:57.020 | going from 10 million to a hundred million

01:59:58.500 | or whatever it is, makes no difference.

02:00:01.300 | - So you're given that,

02:00:03.380 | or just fearless in spending the money?

02:00:05.060 | - Yeah, well, let me reframe.

02:00:06.380 | I guess it could for some people,

02:00:07.940 | if you really, I don't know,

02:00:10.280 | you spent your whole life obsessing over cars,

02:00:12.020 | it probably would bring you a little bit of joy

02:00:13.420 | to buy a nice Lamborghini.

02:00:14.540 | I'm coming more from the frame of mind

02:00:16.220 | of an entrepreneur,

02:00:17.460 | someone who's really obsessed with business building.

02:00:19.180 | For me and a lot of my friends and people I hang around,

02:00:21.860 | what brings us happiness is winning and building companies

02:00:24.900 | and changing the world.

02:00:27.260 | Like that is fun.

02:00:28.940 | It's a complex problem you can wake up every day

02:00:30.740 | and it gives you something to obsess over

02:00:32.380 | and devote your life to.

02:00:33.580 | Whereas just having money doesn't, you know?

02:00:36.740 | - Well, one interesting question

02:00:38.420 | I have for you psychologically.

02:00:39.700 | So because you have become wealthy

02:00:42.900 | and because you give,

02:00:44.020 | like part of your work is giving away a lot of money,

02:00:46.660 | do you find it hard to find people you can trust?

02:00:50.300 | - Good question.

02:00:51.180 | - Do people see you basically as a source of money,

02:00:53.620 | as opposed to another human being?

02:00:55.620 | - It's weird 'cause you would think yes,

02:00:58.060 | but I feel like I also know the right places to look.

02:01:01.820 | But yeah, if I just walked into Target

02:01:04.260 | and tried to make friends with 10 random people,

02:01:05.940 | of course, you gotta...

02:01:08.500 | - So you can kind of sense--

02:01:11.180 | - Oh yeah, you can sense--

02:01:12.020 | - Who has the right thing in their heart.

02:01:12.840 | - Exactly, right?

02:01:13.900 | That's, yeah, it's so obvious.

02:01:16.380 | So I don't even wanna go into descriptions,

02:01:18.620 | but honestly, a lot of my friends are like Chandler.

02:01:23.300 | I played Little League with him.

02:01:25.220 | And Tyler, the guy, I mean, I went to school with him.

02:01:29.340 | Chris, he was my first subscriber.

02:01:31.140 | Carl was here after we got big, but whatever.

02:01:34.180 | He's just friends with the boys.

02:01:35.340 | And a lot of my closer friends,

02:01:39.220 | even like my YouTube friends, I knew before I was big.

02:01:42.100 | So maybe there is some merit to that.

02:01:45.120 | Maybe it is, I don't know.

02:01:46.360 | I've never really put too much thought into it,

02:01:47.680 | but maybe there's a reason I hang around

02:01:49.160 | a lot of these people I knew before I got big

02:01:50.640 | because it's much easier.

02:01:52.440 | - And they help you keep your radar sharp

02:01:55.580 | of who can and can't be trusted

02:01:57.540 | 'cause you know you can trust them.

02:01:59.200 | - Yeah. - And it's difficult

02:02:00.040 | when you become richer and richer and more powerful.

02:02:02.400 | - Well, one thing you'll also find when you get rich,

02:02:05.400 | not even richer, but more famous.

02:02:07.000 | One thing I thought is as I climbed this ladder of YouTube

02:02:10.440 | and got bigger, I thought there would be tons of people

02:02:12.300 | like me, people that take the kamikaze approach

02:02:16.020 | to building a business.

02:02:16.860 | You just throw all your money in it,

02:02:17.980 | you throw all your time, you throw all your energy,

02:02:19.540 | you throw everything.

02:02:20.700 | You're just like, fuck it.

02:02:21.700 | It's this or I'm dead.

02:02:23.420 | I thought there would be hundreds of me.

02:02:25.900 | - And there isn't. - There isn't.

02:02:26.980 | I mean, there's maybe one or two.

02:02:29.540 | And I talk to those motherfuckers every single day.

02:02:31.940 | I'm sick and tired of talking to them, but I love them.

02:02:34.420 | But it's just so interesting 'cause every level I got up,

02:02:37.740 | I'd get a million subscribers.

02:02:39.080 | All right, where's all these guys

02:02:40.880 | with a million subscribers that are fucking psychopaths?

02:02:42.840 | And then you don't, you know.

02:02:44.760 | - People become conservative as they get more.

02:02:48.280 | - Especially as they get bigger, yeah.

02:02:49.920 | And 20 million subscribers, 30.

02:02:51.880 | It's like every step of the way, it's like,

02:02:54.560 | I just got more and more lonely to be honest.

02:02:56.840 | So it sounds cliche and you hear that kind of shit

02:03:00.640 | in movies and you're like, oh, that's not how it works.

02:03:02.480 | But it is.

02:03:04.600 | There's just not many people that just wanna give up

02:03:06.800 | everything, go all in, and then obsess over making

02:03:08.940 | the greatest goddamn videos every single day of their life.

02:03:10.780 | Like, they're really hard to find.

02:03:12.660 | - And be able to sacrifice everything for that video.

02:03:15.740 | Like basically, you put all the money right back in.

02:03:18.820 | - Yeah, or the people doing it,

02:03:19.940 | they're on just a small scale.

02:03:21.240 | And if I talk to them, it's just 99.9% of the time

02:03:24.060 | I'm teaching them things and it's like.

02:03:26.220 | - So it's lonely because there's not too many people,

02:03:29.540 | especially in the creative space, that are as crazy as you.

02:03:32.100 | - Yeah, it is, 100%.

02:03:33.540 | It's so, it's not what I was expecting.

02:03:36.300 | I was expecting there'd be a lot of people like me.

02:03:39.140 | - Well, I guess the guy we talked to, Elon Musk,

02:03:41.740 | is a bit like you in that sense.

02:03:43.500 | - Yeah, just in a different domain.

02:03:45.020 | - Yeah, exactly.

02:03:46.100 | - Just willingness to put it all back in.

02:03:48.300 | - And that's why I've found right now,

02:03:49.940 | a lot of the people I relate to

02:03:51.320 | don't even make YouTube videos.

02:03:52.820 | Like, I'm veering more and more away

02:03:56.300 | from fellow content creators and more to just,

02:03:58.660 | you know, I'm just looking for those other people

02:04:00.280 | who just share a little bit of it

02:04:01.960 | so I don't feel so fucking crazy all the time.

02:04:04.340 | Like, you know what I mean?

02:04:05.580 | And like people I feel normal around,

02:04:07.580 | they tend to just be doing the randomest things,

02:04:09.420 | but you know, loving it.

02:04:11.060 | - Well, I think that's really inspiring.

02:04:12.620 | It's like the Bukowski line,

02:04:16.340 | find what you love and let it kill you.

02:04:17.940 | It's really put everything,

02:04:19.980 | put everything into the thing you love.

02:04:23.140 | That's like the way to really create special stuff,

02:04:25.220 | but it's also the way to live out your life most fully.

02:04:28.100 | - You have to be careful giving this advice

02:04:29.920 | because they're like bodybuilders.

02:04:33.660 | So it'd be like, just go to the gym.

02:04:35.440 | Be disciplined.

02:04:36.280 | I'm disciplined, go to the gym.

02:04:37.300 | But I would argue for those people,

02:04:40.220 | it's like, it's not even discipline.

02:04:41.460 | They just enjoy weightlifting, right?

02:04:44.340 | 'Cause there are people who are jacked,

02:04:46.060 | but they don't make much money or run a business, right?

02:04:48.380 | If they were that disciplined,

02:04:49.660 | they would be hitting every area of their life.

02:04:51.740 | They just really like business.

02:04:52.660 | And then there's people like me

02:04:54.340 | who just to an extreme level love building companies, right?

02:04:57.380 | It's not even discipline for me.

02:04:58.580 | It's just in my blood.

02:04:59.700 | It's what I wake up, I don't think about it.

02:05:01.580 | I don't push myself.

02:05:02.420 | I don't need to watch a fucking motivational video

02:05:04.060 | to go work.

02:05:05.220 | I just do it.

02:05:06.060 | It's programmed in me at this point.

02:05:07.800 | And I couldn't imagine a world

02:05:08.920 | where I don't wake up and do it every day.

02:05:11.720 | But I think that a little bit of it is genetics

02:05:16.160 | and just how you're hardwired.

02:05:18.120 | Not that it can't be trained or taught.

02:05:19.720 | And obviously the friend group you're in

02:05:22.000 | influences these things and over time,

02:05:23.600 | I think can change it.

02:05:24.620 | But someone's just not gonna be able to flip a switch

02:05:27.520 | and then just start doing a kamikaze approach

02:05:29.480 | to building a business.

02:05:30.600 | Just like a lot of people try to flip a switch

02:05:32.320 | and start bodybuilding and then quit majority of the time.

02:05:35.200 | It's just not innate to them.

02:05:37.460 | - I think a lot of us have the capacity

02:05:38.940 | to do that in some domain.

02:05:40.660 | - Yeah, I think if you went about it strategically.

02:05:42.220 | If you surrounded yourself with fellow like-minded people

02:05:45.220 | and slowly over time switched it.

02:05:48.140 | But if you just try to hardcore do it,

02:05:49.820 | you're just gonna lose your mind.

02:05:52.020 | - Do you ever worry about your mental health?

02:05:54.620 | Did you take a step to protect it?

02:05:56.740 | Yeah, for the long run,

02:05:59.900 | to make sure you have the mental strength to go on?

02:06:02.100 | - Yes, weirdly enough,

02:06:03.380 | the best thing for my mental health

02:06:05.180 | was giving into my innate nature to work.

02:06:08.900 | The most depressed I get is when I try to restrict it.

02:06:11.580 | And like, I don't work weekends or I don't work this day.

02:06:14.280 | What's best for me is just to work when I feel like working

02:06:16.820 | and then just not work when I don't.

02:06:19.460 | And just have no constraints.

02:06:20.780 | 'Cause there are just some nights where I don't wanna sleep

02:06:22.980 | and for whatever reason, I feel compelled to go all night.

02:06:25.780 | Whatever, just do it.

02:06:27.580 | Do whatever you want is what I tell my working brain.

02:06:33.000 | And I just give into it.

02:06:34.300 | That's where I feel the happiest.

02:06:36.060 | And then it's typically like,

02:06:38.620 | when I'm really in the grind mode,

02:06:39.820 | it'll be like seven or eight days,

02:06:41.500 | just nonstop going, going.

02:06:43.140 | And then it's like, I'll realize like,

02:06:45.140 | oh, I need some recharge time

02:06:47.140 | and then go fucking binge a season of anime.

02:06:49.900 | Yeah, but that's the thing.

02:06:51.860 | People will tell you don't work weekends

02:06:53.500 | or don't do this or don't work past this

02:06:55.100 | or blah, blah, give you all these constraints.

02:06:56.620 | But for me, and it's unconventional, I just give into it.

02:07:00.180 | - I think there's something really to be said for that.

02:07:02.940 | I try to surround myself with people that,

02:07:05.860 | like when I pull an all-nighter,

02:07:08.140 | they don't go like, you should get more sleep.

02:07:10.660 | There's a reason I pulled that all-nighter.

02:07:12.380 | Like if I'm really passionate about something,

02:07:13.980 | they say, they basically encourage it.

02:07:16.100 | Because I have no problem getting sleep and getting rest.

02:07:20.200 | What I need in my life is people that encourage you

02:07:22.940 | to kind of keep going,

02:07:24.100 | keep going with the stuff you're passionate about.

02:07:26.220 | - Normal people, they don't want that life

02:07:27.860 | and they probably shouldn't.

02:07:28.860 | It's not good for you.

02:07:30.580 | But yeah, if you hang around people,

02:07:33.340 | just whatever, different people,

02:07:35.500 | you're gonna feel crazy and it's gonna wear on you.

02:07:37.540 | Whereas if you're around similar people,

02:07:39.980 | it's so much easier.

02:07:41.620 | Like if you, I've started weightlifting more

02:07:46.380 | and one thing that's helped is just having

02:07:48.260 | jacked people around me.

02:07:49.700 | They naturally just eat healthier.

02:07:51.380 | They do.

02:07:52.380 | They naturally just have fricking grilled chicken

02:07:54.620 | and all this shit and high-protein meals.

02:07:56.860 | And it's just easier for me to just piggyback

02:07:58.740 | and be like, oh, can you just order me

02:07:59.900 | whatever you're getting?

02:08:01.260 | And they're like, oh, I gotta go to the gym.

02:08:02.660 | And I'll be like, oh shit, I'll just join you.

02:08:04.780 | And it's just, it's cheat codes.

02:08:06.980 | Just surround yourself with people that you wanna be

02:08:09.180 | and it makes it like 70% easier, in my opinion.

02:08:11.620 | It's like, that is the cheat code to life.

02:08:14.460 | And I wish, obviously your audience is definitely

02:08:17.340 | a lot older, but to the older people listening,

02:08:19.860 | like if you are in a place of mentorship

02:08:22.100 | for someone younger or have influence over younger people,

02:08:24.780 | you should really try to drill that in their heads.

02:08:27.380 | The people they are around 100% dictates the outcome.

02:08:30.100 | I would not be on 120 million subscribers

02:08:32.300 | if I didn't find, when I was around a million,

02:08:35.340 | I had a couple of friends that were just also psychopaths.

02:08:38.860 | I outgrew them, but at the time it was great.

02:08:41.340 | And I wouldn't be where I am today if it wasn't for them.

02:08:44.420 | And just all along the way, the friends that I hung out with

02:08:48.180 | had such a dramatic impact on where I am.

02:08:50.980 | Like I'd probably have 80 million less subscribers

02:08:54.500 | if I wasn't so strategic about hanging out with people

02:08:57.220 | that I add value to and they also add value to me.

02:08:59.220 | - So the advice for young people would be to

02:09:02.380 | be very selective about the people you surround yourself with.

02:09:04.660 | - So selective, it's crazy.

02:09:06.580 | Like Chris, you know, he's really funny

02:09:11.220 | and that's why he's great for the videos.

02:09:12.620 | And part of why he's so funny is he consumes

02:09:14.420 | copious amounts of cartoons and just funny content.

02:09:17.300 | And so I'll find, like when I spend more time with Chris,

02:09:20.340 | I'll start just quoting these weird cartoons and shows.

02:09:23.700 | Like my speech will literally change

02:09:25.780 | just after like a week of spending more time with him.

02:09:28.340 | It's like that quick of an effect.

02:09:31.140 | Now picture that over the course of years.

02:09:33.300 | I mean, yeah, it has such a huge influence.

02:09:35.620 | Like pluck one of their friends out

02:09:37.380 | and hypothetically put me in there.

02:09:38.620 | And there's no doubt if they're trying

02:09:41.300 | to become a content creator,

02:09:42.540 | their odds of success is 10X, right?

02:09:44.380 | Obviously you can't do that,

02:09:45.700 | but you gotta find your closest version of it.

02:09:48.300 | - And just be selective, yeah.

02:09:50.020 | But this also applies not just to younger,

02:09:51.700 | to older people too.

02:09:53.020 | - Agree, but it's even more,

02:09:55.420 | when I was a teenager, I just,

02:09:58.580 | I couldn't relate to many people.

02:09:59.780 | I just thought I was like a fucking freaking nature

02:10:01.620 | because no one was obsessed with building businesses

02:10:03.700 | or any of this kind of stuff.

02:10:04.980 | And so like back then,

02:10:06.740 | that advice would have been helpful.

02:10:08.140 | Maybe not that particularly,

02:10:09.100 | but just knowing that there are,

02:10:11.300 | it's not that you're a freaking nature.

02:10:12.660 | You just haven't found people that have the same interests.

02:10:14.620 | - So the task is not to feel sorry for yourself

02:10:17.180 | or somehow change yourself.

02:10:18.180 | It's more to find the people.

02:10:19.020 | - Find people you fit in with, yeah.

02:10:21.380 | Assuming which, you're not getting compliments,

02:10:24.260 | assume it's not something bad.

02:10:27.180 | If your hobby is shooting things,

02:10:30.860 | or shooting things you shouldn't be shooting,

02:10:32.740 | don't find people that encourage that.

02:10:34.660 | - But outside of that, for sure.

02:10:37.940 | Actually as an answer to what is the best advice

02:10:41.180 | someone ever gave you, you said,

02:10:42.740 | "You're crazy until you're successful,

02:10:44.580 | "then you're a genius."

02:10:45.780 | - 100%, all along the way.

02:10:47.820 | People who gave me so much,

02:10:50.440 | you know, advice on why I shouldn't be doing it,

02:10:53.480 | why I'm crazy.

02:10:54.560 | Every step of the way, people wanted to tell me

02:10:56.240 | why I shouldn't be doing this and should get a life,

02:10:58.240 | should stop being too obsessed.

02:10:59.720 | Everything, everything under the book.

02:11:01.840 | And then once I'm successful,

02:11:02.840 | those same people are like, "Dang, you're a genius.

02:11:06.480 | "Wow, you really, you pulled that off."

02:11:08.600 | - Those are probably the same people

02:11:09.600 | that will give you advice now.

02:11:11.520 | You're the most successful video creator of all time.

02:11:15.280 | Stick to that.

02:11:16.280 | Anytime you want to do something new, right?

02:11:19.280 | They'll pressure you not to do, you know,

02:11:24.280 | Feastables or mobile gaming or whatever lays beyond.

02:11:29.000 | It's funny how people don't--

02:11:30.680 | - Well, honestly, they're the type of people

02:11:31.520 | I just don't talk to anymore.

02:11:32.840 | (laughs)

02:11:33.840 | I wouldn't even know what they have to say now.

02:11:35.680 | - So most people on the team are like, "Yes, and."

02:11:38.000 | They're like, "Whatever the idea you got, they're with it."

02:11:41.200 | - No, I mean, it's weird.

02:11:42.560 | We actually have a, my team pushes back on me pretty hardcore

02:11:45.800 | which I want, I don't want yes men.

02:11:48.440 | And they're like, they're, James, you know,

02:11:52.400 | the CEO who helped me build all this, he's very adamant.

02:11:55.760 | Like, we're not yes men.

02:11:57.320 | And he trains people to really think for themselves.

02:11:59.240 | And even when I give them orders,

02:12:00.360 | like really think like, is this optimal?

02:12:02.060 | Is there context or information Jimmy could be missing

02:12:04.080 | that I can provide that can help him

02:12:05.280 | make a more updated decision?

02:12:06.680 | Like, I'm not God, you know what I mean?

02:12:09.060 | Like I'm human and I make errors.

02:12:10.400 | And so don't take what I say as the Bible.

02:12:12.880 | - So even like in the brainstorming and so on,

02:12:15.880 | they can push back.

02:12:17.200 | - Yeah, you can see it.

02:12:18.040 | I'm like Tyler, anytime I said something,

02:12:19.240 | he would give me feedback and push back,

02:12:20.680 | which is what I want.

02:12:21.520 | I don't want him just to be like,

02:12:22.340 | yes, you're a fucking genius, good job, Jimmy.

02:12:24.880 | You know, I don't need that, you know, I need negatives.

02:12:27.600 | - You talked about being in a relationship.

02:12:31.560 | What role, Jimmy, does love play in the human condition?

02:12:35.200 | - I think, well, the big thing is that love can be scary

02:12:41.120 | 'cause this is, you know, the human you're gonna spend

02:12:42.880 | the most amount of time with in your life, you know?

02:12:45.680 | And so for a project that over 50 years,

02:12:47.360 | they can be a liability or an asset.

02:12:48.720 | - Love the metrics.

02:12:49.920 | - You know, I love, no, but seriously,

02:12:51.400 | it's gotta be someone that makes you better.

02:12:53.440 | For me, I can't truly love someone

02:12:54.640 | that doesn't make me better because--

02:12:56.480 | - Yeah, in the long run, across the years.

02:12:58.680 | - Because if not, then it's like, it's a negative,

02:13:00.880 | you know, to everything I've spent my life building.

02:13:03.840 | But luckily I'm very happy with the partner I have,

02:13:06.640 | like we were talking about before.

02:13:07.880 | I do think she makes me better.

02:13:09.120 | There's a lot of actually positives I've noticed,

02:13:11.000 | even things as simple as like, you know,

02:13:13.000 | I struggle to turn off my brain at night

02:13:14.520 | 'cause I'm just thinking about all the businesses

02:13:16.440 | and how we could do better or whatever weird thing

02:13:18.840 | I have on my mind.

02:13:19.680 | But, you know, just chatting with her

02:13:21.040 | and hanging out with her helps me like,

02:13:23.120 | basically just shut my brain off and like mellow out.

02:13:26.280 | And even like, there's just a ton of little things like that

02:13:28.800 | that I've noticed are positives,

02:13:30.400 | especially when you really look for them,

02:13:31.760 | that are easy to gloss over if you're not.

02:13:34.040 | And so for me, yeah, I have someone

02:13:37.640 | who I think is very beautiful, very intelligent,

02:13:39.520 | makes me better, is constantly pushing me,

02:13:41.640 | okay with me working hard, makes me smarter,

02:13:44.120 | and just all these different things

02:13:45.660 | that I think for me, love just makes me a better person.

02:13:50.040 | You know what I mean?

02:13:50.880 | Which makes me love her even more.

02:13:52.200 | Does that make sense?

02:13:53.400 | - Absolutely.

02:13:54.240 | What advice would you give on finding somebody like that?

02:13:57.040 | - Just really don't give up until you find someone that,

02:14:02.720 | you know, there's so many people on the planet.

02:14:05.480 | I mean, there really is.

02:14:06.640 | There's billions of--

02:14:08.320 | - The odds are in your favor.

02:14:09.920 | - Of, yeah, like just don't settle

02:14:11.800 | and find someone that, you know, makes you happy.

02:14:15.660 | (sighs)

02:14:17.900 | Yeah, just like you said, surround yourself with people

02:14:20.460 | that make you a better person.

02:14:22.260 | In the same case, surround yourself

02:14:23.740 | with that one special person

02:14:24.860 | that really makes you a better person.

02:14:27.140 | - And maybe that's just an entrepreneurial brain looking at it.

02:14:29.260 | Not everyone wants to hyper-optimize their life like me,

02:14:31.060 | but for me, to like truly love someone,

02:14:33.020 | they have to make me a better person.

02:14:34.420 | - In every way, yeah.

02:14:35.380 | - Yeah.

02:14:36.680 | - Well, what do you hope, you're 24,

02:14:39.140 | we started talking about death,

02:14:40.460 | let's finish talking about death.

02:14:42.540 | What do you hope your legacy is?

02:14:44.280 | When you look 100 years from now,

02:14:46.900 | and the AI has completely taken over,

02:14:49.700 | and the aliens visit and discuss with the AI

02:14:52.480 | what this last of special humans

02:14:54.660 | that existed on Earth was like,

02:14:56.420 | what do you hope they say about you?

02:14:58.540 | - It's a deep one.

02:15:09.780 | Probably just that,

02:15:13.980 | because it's hard, right?

02:15:15.500 | Like I said before, Elon is over double my age.

02:15:18.540 | I could live every second I've lived up

02:15:20.560 | to this point in my life and still not even be Elon's age.

02:15:22.380 | So I have so much time.

02:15:24.060 | I just hope whatever it is,

02:15:25.240 | that it's a net positive on the world,

02:15:27.760 | and it impacts billions of people in a positive way

02:15:32.760 | that makes lasting change.

02:15:35.940 | - So you admire people like Steve Jobs and Elon Musk

02:15:38.860 | for having sort of reached for that goal as well.

02:15:43.020 | - Yeah, of course.

02:15:44.140 | - To help millions.

02:15:45.620 | - I mean, the iPhone's the most successful product

02:15:47.340 | ever invented.

02:15:48.180 | It's hard not to admire what he created.

02:15:50.020 | You know what I mean?

02:15:51.420 | - The same with sort of, as Johnny Ive talks about,

02:15:54.140 | like the passion, the effort they put into the designing

02:15:58.860 | the iPhone, that like little bit of love

02:16:01.180 | is transferred to the whole world.

02:16:02.940 | Like they get to experience the joy of that

02:16:04.380 | from the designer.

02:16:05.220 | - It's what a beautiful thing to do.

02:16:07.260 | You know, I mean, I couldn't think of anything better,

02:16:09.400 | you know, to create something that,

02:16:11.420 | even after you're dead for decades,

02:16:12.960 | just has such a profound impact on basically

02:16:15.860 | half the human population.

02:16:17.140 | - Yeah.

02:16:17.960 | - It's wild.

02:16:18.800 | - Brings joy to people.

02:16:20.140 | - Yeah.

02:16:20.980 | - Well, I hope you do just that, man.

02:16:22.060 | You've already done it for millions and millions

02:16:23.820 | and millions and millions of people,

02:16:25.060 | and I hope you keep doing it.

02:16:26.740 | I can't, like, it's so exciting to see what happens

02:16:30.180 | this year and next year.

02:16:31.740 | - I know.

02:16:32.580 | - Like, the sky's the limit.

02:16:33.420 | - I'm excited too, yeah.

02:16:34.260 | - I can't, I mean, the videos,

02:16:37.340 | but all the other businesses you're in,

02:16:39.180 | and you as a human being as you grow,

02:16:41.400 | I can tell, I know, as everyone knows,

02:16:43.420 | you have a kind heart,

02:16:44.500 | and the fact that you're really damn good

02:16:47.000 | at actually using that kind heart to help a lot of people.

02:16:51.080 | It's awesome to see, man.

02:16:52.060 | - I appreciate it.

02:16:52.900 | More importantly, before we go,

02:16:54.260 | are we gonna play Dune tonight?

02:16:56.020 | Some board games?

02:16:56.860 | - We're not gonna play Dune.

02:16:57.700 | I have to, I have like, one hour of sleep.

02:16:59.300 | - You don't wanna play board games with me?

02:17:00.900 | - I wanna, I'll play, I'll play.

02:17:02.220 | - You don't wanna play board games?

02:17:03.060 | - I'll, this is--

02:17:03.900 | - You don't wanna play board games?

02:17:06.100 | - If only I wasn't an idiot,

02:17:08.540 | and actually flew to the right airport.

02:17:10.740 | - If you don't play board games with me,

02:17:11.960 | they're gonna dislike the video.

02:17:13.360 | (laughing)

02:17:15.760 | - Thanks for listening to this conversation with Mr. Beast.

02:17:18.360 | To support this podcast,

02:17:19.600 | please check out our sponsors in the description.

02:17:22.480 | And now, let me leave you with some words

02:17:24.640 | from the poet and philosopher, Reverend Jonath Tagore.

02:17:28.400 | Reach high, for stars lie hidden in you.

02:17:33.220 | Thank you for listening, and hope to see you next time.

02:17:37.520 | (upbeat music)

02:17:40.100 | (upbeat music)

02:17:42.680 | [BLANK_AUDIO]

MrBeast: Future of YouTube, Twitter, TikTok, and Instagram | Lex Fridman Podcast #351

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